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ARTS & ENTERTAINMENT => Films & Theater => Topic started by: Dave Cullen on February 28, 2006, 11:56:10 AM

Title: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Dave Cullen on February 28, 2006, 11:56:10 AM
This thread is not necessarily for the Greatest films of all-time--but for wonderful films that got lost along the way--hardly heard of or known today.

Roger Ebert has his Overlooked Film Festival, so I thought we should start a virtual one of our own.

We can't actually show the films, but we can share some of our favorites that never got enough attention. (You can decide what constitutes "enough.")

I can't decide whether I'm more eager to add or draw from this thread. I'm always excited about spreading the word on some of my long lost faves, but I'm also on the hunt to see some missed gems. I finally decided I can start a netflix account, so I'm going to be especially hungry for ideas.

---

For each film, please include (or include as much as possible):

- the year of release (approx if you don't know)
- your take on it -- why you like it so much, or what we might get out of it
- the director and stars
- a link would be great (such as rotten tomatoes or metacritic)
- if you could paste in the synopsis from some site, that would also be great.
Title: Re: DC's Overlooked Film Festival
Post by: Dave Cullen on February 28, 2006, 12:01:55 PM
I will start things off with one I think a lot of people here will like, but not so many will have heard of:

Apartment Zero, 1989.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/apartment_zero/

RT rating 88% (but only 8 reviews).

A weird and deliciously creepy suspense film with extremely strong gay undertones. Overtones?

Starring Hart Bochner (at his hottest), Colin Firth, Liz Smith.

Directed by Martin Donovan

Winner Best Picture and Best Director at the Seattle International Film Festival, 1989.

The not-entirely-clear synopsis from RT (I think the inability to synopsize this very unusual film was a big part of its problem getting the love):

The proprietor of a Buenos Aires revival-house cinema meets an American "free spirit;" and before long, he has agreed to let the stranger board in his flat, which is decorated with pictures of movie stars.

Although the theater owner obsequiously vies for the American's affections, he becomes aware that unexplained murders have been taking place in the city, and that his lodger may not be exactly what he seems.

As their relationship develops, both men attempt to discover who the other one is, and what he is striving to attain.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films the world missed out on
Post by: BADBRAD on March 15, 2006, 04:26:16 PM
 http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/wonder_boys/


Off hand WONDER BOYS comes to mind. 

2000 film starring Michael Douglas, Robert Downey Jr, Tobey McGuire, Katie Holmes and Frances McDormand.

I love this film; it was released and received great to very good reviews, but for some reason never found a big audience.  The thing I like about the film is it's quirkiness in it's characters and situations.  It is very matter of fact in it's approach while never going overboard.  The characters are all very smart and they use their intelligence to move the story along very entertainingly.  Micheal Douglas probably has never been so good in a film; while Tobey McGuire and Katie Holmes are very effective in early roles for them.  Curtis Hanson directs with a subtle eye and the film ends up being a smart entertainment. 

PLOTLINE: An English Professor tries to deal with his wife leaving him, the arrival of his editor who has been waiting for his book for seven years, and the various problems that his friends and associates involve him in.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: sinne on March 18, 2006, 01:16:13 PM
I keep mentioning this film on various threads so more people will see it - "Hedwig and the Angry Inch".  I've seen it over 30 times and it's fantastic.  It was an off-Broadway play in 1998 and then made into a film in 2001.  It is a "cult" film now but it should be getting much wider recognition.  It won the audience award at the Sundance Film Festival (as well as audience awards at festivals all over the world) but it should be much more popular than it is.  Rolling Stone named it "one of the Top 10 Rock Musicals of all time!"

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/hedwig_and_the_angry_inch/

http://www.finelinefeatures.com/sites/hedwig/

To me it has a similar theme to BBM - about the search for your other half. The story of Hedwig is based on Aristopanes speech in Plato's Republic, "In the beginning, we were whole; we combined in us both the male and the female." (until the god Zuess split us all in two)  Hedwig performs a song called "The Origin of Love" based on this and also has a monologue, where she says, "It is clear I must find my other half.  But is it a he or a she?  What does this person look like?  Identical to me?  Or somehow complementary"  Does my other half have what I don't?  Did he get the looks, the luck, the love?  Were we really separted forcibly or did he just run off with the good stuff?  Or did I?  Will this person embarrass me?  And what about sex?  Is that how we put ourselves back together again?  Or can two people actually become one again?" 

I don't want to give too much away about the plot.  I think it's better to see it not knowing a lot beforehand.  It's an amazing film.  I will see it many, MANY more times.  Whenever I hear it's playing at a midnight show I go.  Take a chance if you haven't seen it!



 
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films the world missed out on
Post by: Forever_Failure on March 19, 2006, 08:37:49 PM
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/wonder_boys/


Off hand WONDER BOYS comes to mind. 

2000 film starring Michael Douglas, Robert Downey Jr, Tobey McGuire, Katie Holmes and Frances McDormand.


I just love that film! I've watched it at least 3 times but only on TV. I went to see it with my brother at the cinema but that day they changed it and showed "Bedazzled" or something like that instead, only for that day... It got the funniest title in Spanish though, something like "A crazy weekend" (Fin de semana de locos). I really don't know what some translators have in mind when they translate the movie titles.  :-\
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: joe-broke on March 22, 2006, 11:08:03 PM
I keep mentioning this film on various threads so more people will see it - "Hedwig and the Angry Inch".  

Yes! 'Hedwig' is a must see! I was living in Athens, Georgia when it was released, just so happens that was also where director/star John Cameron Mitchell was living at the time, so the movie got a lot of promotion just from word of mouth in the Atlanta/Athens area. I thought it was going to be the next 'Rocky Horror Picture Show'. Highly recommended!

I would also recommend, and I mentioned this somewhere else on here, Ang Lee's first "gay" movie 'The Wedding Banquet'.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Griff on March 22, 2006, 11:57:13 PM
Two foreign films comes to mind:  Victor Erice's "The Spirit of the Beehive" (El espiritu de la colmena) and Hector Babenco's "Pixote."  Both films, one Spanish and the other Brazilian, feature young protagonists whose faces will forever be etched in your memories. 

As for American films, Terence Malick's "Badlands" seems to be a good candidate for "most overlooked."  And, though not sure it fits in the overlooked category, but David Lynch's "Blue Velvet" is definitely a film that just gets better and better after each viewing.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: markason on March 23, 2006, 03:49:52 AM
Luchino Visconti's first film, "Ossessione" ("Obsession") is a masterpiece that very few people have had the chance to see. There are several very good reasons for its long life hidden away in obscurity, yet now that it has been recorded on DVD it may finally attain the audience and the accolades it has always deserved. First, the movie was filmed in Italy in 1943, when Visconti was inspired to create an Italian adaptation of James M. Cain's story "The Postman Always Rings Twice". This cinematic treatment of the story actually predated the famous Hollywood version starring John Garfield and Lana Turner (1946) by three years. Unfortunately, Visconti's budget was too limited to afford legal purchase of the film rights from the writer, and so for several decades the movie was prohibited from being shown outside of Italy because the author's estate exercised claims of copyright infringement. In addition to this, the movie was rarely allowed to be screened inside Italy since Mussolini and the Catholic church both banned it from being shown in movie houses, because of its "immoral" themes. Not only did the film tell the original Postman tale of adultery and murder in fine detail, but director Visconti also inserted a gay subplot of his own invention which, of course, was scandalous (and amazing) for the early '40s. Even by today's more "progressive" standards, the film can still be considered quite advanced in its outlook, for, though the gay storyline is very subtle, it is presented in a completely positive, unstereotyped light. Moreover, the gay character is the most ethical protagonist in the affair, who remains free from the retribution that awaits the other players. I try to mention this film every time I have the chance because, like Brokeback Mountain, so many of its scenes are exquisitely rendered gems of cinematic art and, are worthy of loving scrutiny. Brokeback fans will be especially intrigued to find parallels to Ennis and Jack in the roles of "Gino" and "Spagnolo" in Ossessione. Gino is a handsome itinerant handyman, schooled in poverty, whose earthy magnetism appeals to almost everyone he encounters, while Spagnolo ("The Spaniard") is a mercurial street magician whose keenness and generosity of spirit never falter. Like Jack Twist, Spagnolo attempts to convince Gino that they could live a life of freedom together and, like Ennis del Mar, Gino is either unable or unwilling to hear this tender, unexpected encouragement. Such prescience in a movie made over 60 years ago! Film lovers needn't have any concerns about this early, European adaptation of Postman being at all inferior to its American successors. It brims with authentically observed nuances of Italian life and is conceived with such naturalness throughout that it is actually credited with inaugurating the "Verismo" or 'Neo-realist" style of film making. In fact, I believe it is the best movie version of Postman available. I can also add that admirers of the male form will be generously rewarded by Visconti's camera, which lingers in appreciation over every aspect of actor Massimo Girotti's virile frame. My advice: see this movie...!

Ossessione is occasionally shown on Turner Classic Movies (it's possible that NetFlix carries it, too) and it is also available from Amazon.com here:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000687DE/qid=1143110345/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-4109712-5576613?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=130

The Internet Movie Data Base has more information on Ossessione here:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0035160/

Finally, a few captures from the film:
(http://fraser.typepad.com/a_girl_a_gun/images/pic2.jpg)
Gino (actor Massimo Girotti) the handyman drifter, whose appearance on the scene sets the story's plot into motion.


(http://www.tcf.ua.edu/Classes/Jbutler/T112/Ossessione.jpg)
Gino and Spagnolo (actor Elio Marcuzzo) prepare to share a bed for a night in a sparse rented room.


(http://www.digischool.nl/ckv1/film/visconti42.JPG)
(http://www.filmarchiv.at/events/tressler/pics/ossessione.jpg)
Gino and Spagnolo in their final encounter.


(http://emmanuel.denis.free.fr/images/visconti110.JPG)
Gino and Giovanna (actress Clara Calamai) contemplate the consequences of their adulterous affair.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Boris on March 23, 2006, 09:34:25 AM
"Amores Perros", a mexican movie about love, death, dogs and betrayal. Horrendously dark masterpiece by Alejandro González Iñárritu.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Dave Cullen on March 23, 2006, 03:35:03 PM
Badlands is a classic. Nice choice. And Sissy Spacek and Martin Sheen both look like they're 14.

(I would agree that Blue Velvet was great, but not so overlooked. Didn't it come in first place on some big list of the films of that decade? I'm also puzzled why that pic always gets named, when I thought he totally outdid himself with Wild At Heart. Tied as my all-time favorite. I've never seen a film match that exhuberance for life. But I don't think it qualifies for overlooked either.)

Wonder Boys, I did not get what all the excitement was about. I can't even remember why I disliked it: seemed very forgettable to me, and I don't think I ever bought in. It's fuzzy, so I can't say a whole lot.

BTB, "Amores Perros" translates as Love's A Bitch, right? Pun intended. Always makes me smile. Need to add that to my netflix queue.

Thanks for the stills from Obession.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: brokebacktom on March 23, 2006, 07:41:00 PM
I agree with David Apartment Zero was great!

Another I thuoght was great was DOWN FALL; 2004. (German) Plot: the last days of Hitler. It was wonderful.

Tom
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Boris on March 24, 2006, 11:08:47 AM
"Down Fall" is a great movie, there is something surreal and horrible in its depiction of the Hitler's last days, no melodrama, no demonization, nothing we have used to see. And still you come out felling terrified. The German actress playing Magda Goebbels, Corinna Harfouch is mesmerizing.

Another movie I would like to recommend is "Memento" by Christopher Nolan starring Guy Pearce and Carrie Anne Moss (how hot is that). It is unusual thriller that you have to watch without flinching because its narrative and structure is so challenging.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Eniese on March 24, 2006, 04:06:30 PM

Memento is awsome!

Wonderboys was a movie I liked but it didn´t stick to my mind.

Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Dave Cullen on March 24, 2006, 09:32:45 PM
Memento was great. And yeah, you had to watch every minute.

And Guy Pierce was hot. Does he only do one film every three years?

---

I just saw an add on this thread for a Hal Hartley site. How odd. Did someone mention him without me noticing?

Trust is one of my all-time faves. Link at his site here:

http://www.possiblefilms.com/movies/trust/

I also loved his prior film, "The Unbelievable Truth."

Amazing first two films. But then he stumbled with "Simple Men," and everything seemed to get bad reviews after that except maybe Henry Fool, so I quit going. Did I miss any gems in there?

Go see Trust. I used it in my class teaching creative writing to undergrads. Wonderful. Martin Donovan carries a live grenade with himself everywhere, just in case. Just in case what? Just in case.

hehehe.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: twtplanner on March 25, 2006, 04:35:24 PM
...Another movie I would like to recommend is "Memento" by Christopher Nolan starring Guy Pearce and Carrie Anne Moss (how hot is that). It is unusual thriller that you have to watch without flinching because its narrative and structure is so challenging.

Boris, I liked it but it didn't give me the wow factor.  It's very good....just didn't have the same enthusiasm.

terry
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Passion on March 26, 2006, 09:08:30 PM
How about Crush no not the movie about the young psycho girl or the one about the surfing girl and I did not put a U instead of an A! This is a movie with Andie McDowell.  See the review at Amazon -- it is about friendship and love and how it can all go terribly wrong!  I really liked it and wished more people could have seen it.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00006ADD0/qid=1143432144/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-4680955-3558253?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=130
Plot Synopsis: Three 40-something women in a small English town meet weekly for a ritual of gin, cigarettes, and sweets -- and swapped stories arguing which of them has the most pathetic love life. Kate (MacDowell) is headmistress at the local school; her best friends are the town's police chief (Staunton) and a cynical, thrice-divorced doctor (Chancellor). When Kate begins a fling with a handsome younger man (Doughty), less worldly than her friends but passionate and sincere, the other women can't simply be happy for the couple's unusual new romance. In jealousy they promptly take it upon themselves to break up the pair, taking drastic measures which result in unintended outcomes, some happy and some tragic.
Title: Re: DC's Overlooked Film Festival
Post by: dback on March 28, 2006, 01:49:22 PM
I will start things off with one I think a lot of people here will like, but not so many will have heard of:

Apartment Zero, 1989.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/apartment_zero/

RT rating 88% (but only 8 reviews).

A weird and deliciously creepy suspense film with extremely strong gay undertones. Overtones?

Starring Hart Bochner (at his hottest), Colin Firth, Liz Smith.

Directed by Martin Donovan

Winner Best Picture and Best Director at the Seattle International Film Festival, 1989.

The not-entirely-clear synopsis from RT (I think the inability to synopsize this very unusual film was a big part of its problem getting the love):

The proprietor of a Buenos Aires revival-house cinema meets an American "free spirit;" and before long, he has agreed to let the stranger board in his flat, which is decorated with pictures of movie stars.

Although the theater owner obsequiously vies for the American's affections, he becomes aware that unexplained murders have been taking place in the city, and that his lodger may not be exactly what he seems.

As their relationship develops, both men attempt to discover who the other one is, and what he is striving to attain.

I LOVE this movie--and I've never seen a film in a theater where my shirt became soaked with perspiration due to sheer, nerve-wracking suspense.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Casper on March 30, 2006, 06:13:57 AM
sinne, I just have to tell you that I read in Daily Variety a rave review of the stage show, "Hedwig and the Angry Inch," currently at the Roxy Theater in Los Angeles.  Donovan Leitch is praised for his performance as Hedwig.  (http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/smile1.gif)
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Lola on March 30, 2006, 11:16:06 AM
I really liked LANTANA, not sure how many people saw it.  An Australian friend actually told me about it (at the time I had never heard of it) so I rented it, actually ended up buying a copy, I really liked it.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0259393/
Title: Re: DC's Overlooked Film Festival
Post by: Dave Cullen on April 01, 2006, 01:22:32 PM
I LOVE this movie--and I've never seen a film in a theater where my shirt became soaked with perspiration due to sheer, nerve-wracking suspense.

I'm so glad someone here has seen Apartment Zero. And was just as unnerved by it. It is one intense film. But it's the undertones that really got me.

Very creepy. But in a good way. And creepy mixed with a hottie is always good. Especially when you start wondering who's creeping whom . . .

I'll say no more. Go see it.

---

Which brings up the question:

I have missed a few posts, but has anyone rented any of the recommended films yet? I'd love to start hearing back from people who tried out one of the suggestions and loved or hated it.

I plan to add a few to my netflix queue, but i'm in the middle of about 20 discs in the Six Feet Under series. I was too poor for HBO until recently, so I only saw the final season. Starting over from the beginning. And I liked it at the end, but it was WAY better in the beginning.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: dback on April 03, 2006, 01:36:02 PM
I've been meaning to post some films here for awhile now (was too busy playing in the Queer Cinema thread).  Here are some--completely as they randomly come to mind--that I've never been able to shake.  I'll try to avoid listing movies from the Queer Cinema thread as dupes (though "Mysterious Skin" is way up on the list).

Lawn Dogs
Twin Falls, Idaho
One Hour Photo
Dominick and Eugene
Gas, Food & Lodging
Bagdad Cafe
The Deep End
Shooting Fish
Choose Me
Wilbur Wants To Kill Himself
The Others
Nicholas Nickleby
The Safety Of Objects
Widow's Peak
Raising Victor Vargas
Urbania
The Long Day Closes
World And Time Enough
Intermission
Heaven (documentary)

Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Carissa on April 03, 2006, 03:05:49 PM
The Deep End
Wilbur Wants To Kill Himself
Nicholas Nickleby
The Safety Of Objects
Raising Victor Vargas
I've seen these on your list.  I thought Wilbur Wants to Kill Himself was a gem of a movie. :)


Another quirky yet charming movie is The Price of Milk (http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0249893/)
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: dback on April 04, 2006, 12:38:47 PM
I was really amazed by "Wilbur"--told lots of friends about it, but they thought it looked and sounded "too depressing."  I tried pitching it as a modern "Harold and Maude," but with only qualified success.  I also love the idea of a movie character named Harbor--what a lovely name, meaning safety and sanctuary.

On my list, I also left off "Impromptu"--how COULD I!?!  I love that movie passionately.  Talk about your odd couple romances!  (And based on fact, which makes it even more of a pip.)
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: BrokebackBerlin on April 05, 2006, 03:11:14 PM
The film I would like to recommend here is "Good Bye Lenin!". It hasn't been overlooked at all in Europe, and was quite a success all over the world, but I think in the U.S. it is quite unknown.

http://www.sonyclassics.com/goodbye/

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0301357/

Or just read the reviews at amazon.com

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000274THQ/.

(http://www.wnyc.org/img/26727/0?year=2004&nickname=lopate&day=19&month=02)
It is also a film about love, but about a son's love for his mother (non-sexual, of course, it's not French ;)). It's a comedy and a melancholic love-story about this son's love for his mother at the same time. It is very entertaining and doesn't bother you with a cheesy happy-ending (who wants happy-endings anymore after BBM?). But it's an uplifter nevertheless, and has one to-be-seen, outstanding cinematic moment toward the end. IMHO it's one of the few movies you can bear watching and enjoy, even if you are still suffering from a post-BBM-depression.

Jan
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Casper on April 06, 2006, 12:03:42 PM
"LITTLE FUGITIVE"
(1953)

Directed by:  Ray Ashley and Morris Engel

I love this film!  It brings out the "little kid" in me all the time.  It's a black & white movie with a simple harmonica score running throughout.  Joey (Richie Andrusco) runs aways for a day (and night) to Coney Island.  You see this fabulous amusement park through the eyes of this little lad.  The famous Parachute Jump can be seen in all its glory. 
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: jayiijay on April 09, 2006, 10:44:37 PM
Make Way for Tomorrow - 1937 - d. Leo McCarey.  When Leo won the director Oscar that year for classic The Awful Truth, he is purported to have said, "Thanks, but you gave it to me for the wrong movie".  Without giving anything away, it's about an aged couple (Beaulah Bondhi & Victor Moore) who lose their money and struggle to stay together in their waning years.  Make Way made me cry harder than anything I have ever seen, including Brokeback.  Thomas Mitchell of Stagecoatch & Gone With the Wind plays one of their children. 

Ballad of a Soldier - 1960 - Russia - go to imdb.com for details, I can't spell the names, LOL.  Short and beautiful love story of a soldier who meets a girl, and what ensues.  Another tearjerker.

The Miracle of Morgan's Creek - 1944 - d. Preston Sturges.  Considered a classic in many quarters but forgotten in most, I think this is the funniest movie I have ever seen, with Sturges' usual roster of crazies led by Eddie Bracken, Betty Hutton, Diana Lynn, and best of all, William Demarest (pre-My 3 Sons).  The movie was banned by censors during the war.

Dressed to Kill - 1980 - d. Brian de Palma.  Saw this in an almost abandoned Times Square theater in 1980.  So terrified we both agreed to leave the movie and snuck next door to Lady and the Tramp.  Still scares me even in hyper-edited form when shown on tv.  Filmed as an homage to Psycho, it lives up to expectations, capturing how vulnerable we are to crime in urban settings.  Was too realistic for comfort.

Two Ralph Fiennes movies - Sunshine (2000, d. Istvan Szabo, who did Mephisto) and Spider (2003), d. David Cronenberg.    The former is an epic, spanning 20th century European history from by tracing a family called Sunshine.  Critics were mixed, though the Golden Globes nominated it for Best Picture (no Oscar noms - see the pattern??).  Starts a bit slow but stick with it, I thought it was monumental.  As for Spider, I don't want to give anything away, it is unique, with Fiennes and Miranda Richardson incredible in creepy, mesmerizing performances.  Again, imdb.com for details.

Russian Ark - 2002.  For a compelling tour of the Hermitage museum of St. Petersburg and its history, this is a remarkable film.

Odd Man Out - 1947, d. Carol Reed.  The first film of a trilogy, overshadowed by the third, masterpiece The Third Man, Odd Man Out tells the story of a rebel who is shot, then wanders the night seeking a friend as he is dying, like in a nightmare.  Amazing film, unfairly overlooked in the all-time great polls.

The Search - 1948, d. Fred Zinnemann.  A huge hit in 1948 with major Oscar nominations (though not Picture), seemingly forgotten today, tells the story of a young soldier, Montgomery Clift (I think in his first film role, nominated) who befriends a lost young boy, as they search for his mother.  Simple, very moving.

Kind Hearts and Coronets - 1950, d. Robert Hamer.  Perhaps this is more famous than I give it credit for, but just in case, it's one of the best comedies ever made, with Alec Guinness in 8 roles, all victims, as Dennis Price seeks the family fortune.

The Others - Again, I don't know if this qualifies for this thread, but I thought Nicole Kidman should have gotten her 2001 nomination for this even more than Moulin Rouge.  Fionnula Flanagan wasn't even nominated, should have won.  Haunting, surprising, fun.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Forever_Failure on April 10, 2006, 12:42:23 AM
"The Others" is such an amazing film, I don't watch horror films too much, most of them fail to scare me, they all look the same, especially after "Scream" and "The Ring". However, The Others is not more of a psychollogical horror film, in the path of "The Sixth Sense". And the best part, is that it was directed by the CHILEAN Alejandro Amenábar! (I know he's Spanish, his parents are Chilean and he was born in this country but left when he was a baby. The funny part is that the press here always praise him as "The Chilean" Alejandro Amenábar, meh..)

I suggest to try Amenábar's other movies "Tesis" and "Abre los Ojos" (not the crappy remake Vanilla Sky). Very scary too.

I disagree with Memento. Not because it's a bad film, but because it's not overlooked at all. It's all over the place.

Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: GoBrokeback on April 10, 2006, 09:54:49 AM
North Country!  It was excellent!
Whatever is was nominated for in the Oscars it was robbed!!!
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Dave Cullen on April 11, 2006, 08:40:39 PM
The film I would like to recommend here is "Good Bye Lenin!". It hasn't been overlooked at all in Europe, and was quite a success all over the world, but I think in the U.S. it is quite unknown.

that pic reminded me suddenly of "Europa, Europa," which i liked, but don't remember loving, though the title always tugs at me.

but it bounced me straight to "Searching for Bobbie Fisher" (is that the title?), which i liked a great deal.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Dave Cullen on April 11, 2006, 08:47:08 PM
i still love "hope and glory." treasure it, actually.

you could argue that it wasn't overlooked, because it got like five surprise oscar noms, including best pic, but last i checked on b.o. mojo, i think it made about $10 million, if that. died immediately after the oscars. don't think many people saw it.

it's life in london during WW II, during the bombing. except it's from the point of view of a young boy (boorman's wistful memories of his own childhood), so it's not bleak, these boys are in heaven. most repeated line of dio: "Want some shrapnel?"

touching but not treakely, closely-observed, moving . . . a joy. just the idea of it sustains me.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: jayiijay on April 11, 2006, 09:03:31 PM
DAVE:

"Hope and Glory" is a wonderful movie.  It's Best Picture and other Oscar nominations were not a surprise because it won the Los Angeles Film Critics' Awards for Best Picture, Director and Screenplay, was the runner-up at the National Society of Film Critics (with Boorman again winning director & screenplay, plus the film took cinematography), and it won the Golden Globe for Best Picture (musical/comedy) over Moonstruck and Broadcast News.  Plus it was in the National Board of Review top 10, got a Writers Guild nomination, etc.  But despite the awards, you are right, nobody saw it, so I think it's a great choice.

Steve Zaillian is a talented guy, he did both Searching for Bobby Fischer and Schindler's List the same year.  I remember preferring the former since the screenplay was so smart, but I don't remember it that well, hope to eventually see it again.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: jpq716 on April 11, 2006, 09:20:11 PM
Is John Boorman still at work? I still remember Excalibur, The Emerald Forest and, of course, Hope and Glory.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: jayiijay on April 11, 2006, 09:26:58 PM
JPQ716:

Boorman did Tailor of Panama a couple of years ago, and In My Country, which I didn't see.  His upcoming films are Memoirs of Hadrian and A Tiger's Tale.  Go to www.imdb.com for all the info you could ever want about him or anybody else who is ever been involved in a movie in anyway, LOL - but I'm not kidding - if you don't know the site, it's amazing.

Maybe I missed it, but has anybody mentioned "Deliverance"?  I had never seen the movie as a kid, then read it in college in a gut course nicknamed "Shit Lit".  Thought it was terrific, then saw the movie.  Boorman did a great job, Reynolds & Beatty were excellent, but I'm just not a fan of Jon Voight.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: TomS on April 12, 2006, 01:49:05 PM
Dave, Apartment Zero is excellent:  suspenseful and erotic.  I have the video; is it out yet on DVD?

jayiijay mentioned Ballad of a Soldier.  Great choice!  Have you also tried The Cranes are Flying?

Harold and Maude had a cult following years ago.  Has it been forgotten?
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: jayiijay on April 12, 2006, 02:55:56 PM
TOMS:

Love The Cranes Are Flying!  But Ballad of a Soldier made me weep profusely.  Only other movies that ever did that were Make Way for Tomorrow, Brokeback Mountain and (dare I say it) Million Dollar Baby.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Boppity on April 12, 2006, 07:03:35 PM
Dave, Apartment Zero is excellent:  suspenseful and erotic.  I have the video; is it out yet on DVD?


Looks like it -
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00008G8N6/qid=1144889876/sr=11-1/ref=sr_11_1/103-7827252-8885404?n=130

Not sure what I think of it.  Too much like Psycho at the end I think (and I hate Psycho), but it is very homo-erotic for me.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: jayiijay on April 12, 2006, 07:51:06 PM
Robert Bresson is considered one of the world's greatest filmmakers but he is not that well known in the U.S. by non-movie buffs, so I am going to to list "Au Hasard Balthzar" and "A Man Escaped".

The former is a parable ostensibly about the life of a tormented donkey, but by the time the film is over, you can't help but be devastated (I believe Jean-Luc Godard called it the greatest film ever made - it was virtually unavailable here, even in a movie town like NYC, until about 5 years ago).  The latter is a basic story of an imprisoned soldier who spends virtually the entire 90 minute film devising ways to escape, with a payoff that is remarkable.  Both films are simple, austere tear-jerkers, que them up on your netflix lists!
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: annabel on April 14, 2006, 08:03:46 AM
"The Trip to Bountiful"  It's kind of slow moving, but very poignant and lovely,and when the old woman finally finds her childhood home in Bountiful, Texas, it kind of reminds me of Jack's parent's house.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: jayiijay on April 14, 2006, 11:42:18 AM
Black Narcissus, from 1947, directed by Michael Powell and Emeric Pressburger.  I just noticed it was on Turner Classic Movies last night.  Deborah Kerr, Flora Robson, Jean Simmons, with some of the most beautiful cinematography ever filmed.  It is moving and wonderful, here is two synopses from www.imdb.com:

"Anglican nuns, led by the stern Sister Clodagh, attempt to establish a religious community in the Himalayas, and must battle not only suspicious locals and the elements, but their own demons as well."

"Five young British nuns are invited to move to a windy "palace", former house of the concubines of an old general, in the top of a mountain in Mopu, Himalaya, to raise the convent of Saint Faith Order, a school for children and girls, and an infirmary for the local dwellers. Sister Clodagh (Deborah Kerr) is assigned as the superior sister, and her liaison with civilization is the rude government agent Mr. Dean (David Farrar). The lonely and exotic place and the presence of Mr. `Dean awake the innermost desires in the flesh of the sisters, and Sister Ruth (Kathleen Byron) becomes mad with the temptation."

Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Desecra on April 15, 2006, 01:45:14 PM
One film which made a huge impression on me at the time was 'Breaking the Waves' [1996], directed by Lars von Trier.  I was a wreck after seeing it and was haunted by it for a long time afterwards.  I don't know if I could bear to watch it again, but it's worth seeing. 

Briefly, it's about a child-like woman in a remote Scottish village who marries an oil rig worker.  When he's injured in an accident and unable to have sex, he urges her to have sex with other men and tell him about it. 
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: jayiijay on April 15, 2006, 03:20:53 PM
DESECRA:

Couldn't agree more re: Breaking the Waves, without question it was one of my 5 favorite films of the 90s (maybe the best).  However, many agree, it is already considered a great film by critics, so I'm pleased to say it is not being overlooked - although it's box office is hardly Harry Potter, LOL.  Did extremely well in Europe.

Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Desecra on April 15, 2006, 03:23:32 PM
Thank you jayiijay - I don't know anyone else who has seen it, so I'm glad you have!  I seemed to remember mixed reviews at the time, but maybe it was just that the film made such an impression that the reviews didn't seem to praise it enough :).  I am glad it is well thought of.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: jayiijay on April 15, 2006, 03:32:03 PM
DESCRA:

Most of the reviews were fantastic.  It won all sorts of awards in Europe (the FELIX, etc.), and in the U.S., the National Society of Film Critics, runner-up at the New York Film Critics, a Golden Globe nominee for Best Picture, etc.  It was not expected to be an Oscar Best Picture nominee because everyone knows how pedestrian the Academy is (this is not post-Brokeback loss sour grapes talking, it has always been true, spoken as an ex-avid-Oscars-fan), and even Emily Watson was considered to be an iffy Best Actress nominee in '96.  Check out the March issue of Premiere mag - Emily Watson's performance is listed as the 18th greatest ever captured on film, and the 4th best ever by a woman, behind only Meryl Streep in Sophie's Choice, Bette Davis in All About Eve and Katharine Hepburn in Lion in Winter (good but a bit overrated, imo - stagey).  The performance should have made the top 10, some of the men placed above her were ridiculous, but #18 ever by anybody ain't bad!  Also, in polls of the best films of the 90s, Waves is regularly in the top 10.  Internationally it does even better.  I am confident that when the next Sight & Sound world cinema poll comes out in 2012, Waves will make the 100 and its placement among films of the '90s will be top 3.  It's an amazing film.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: LondonJakeFan on April 16, 2006, 08:24:17 AM
Agree Memento is an awesome film that was overlooked.

One I have always loved that most people arent familar with is The Right Stuff-about the race to get an American in space. It's based on an equally great book by Tom Wolfe.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086197/
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: annabel on April 17, 2006, 08:12:51 AM
One film which made a huge impression on me at the time was 'Breaking the Waves' [1996], directed by Lars von Trier.  I was a wreck after seeing it and was haunted by it for a long time afterwards.  I don't know if I could bear to watch it again, but it's worth seeing. 

Briefly, it's about a child-like woman in a remote Scottish village who marries an oil rig worker.  When he's injured in an accident and unable to have sex, he urges her to have sex with other men and tell him about it. 
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: annabel on April 17, 2006, 08:13:59 AM
OOPs.  Was trying to figure out how to highlight a quote and comment.  Forgot the comment.  Never mind :)
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Dave Cullen on April 23, 2006, 12:08:34 AM
One film which made a huge impression on me at the time was 'Breaking the Waves' [1996], directed by Lars von Trier.  I was a wreck after seeing it and was haunted by it for a long time afterwards.  I don't know if I could bear to watch it again, but it's worth seeing. 

Briefly, it's about a child-like woman in a remote Scottish village who marries an oil rig worker.  When he's injured in an accident and unable to have sex, he urges her to have sex with other men and tell him about it. 

that film made me SO angry. not in a good way. i had forgotten why, until i saw "Dancer in the Dark." the next day, i posted a blog entry called "Charactericide."

http://blogs.salon.com/0001137/2005/10/03.html

characters are people too, and lars is a fucking sadist.

plus that jittery camera shit, dogma whatever is so painfully art-pretender. (i know, i'll write a story with no punctuation, that will make it art.)

he's got talent, but he's got serious problems.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Dave Cullen on April 23, 2006, 12:10:52 AM
did i mention Trust?

i absolutely adore Trust.

---

Also, Arizona Dream. (Dreams?) Picture johnny depp, faye dunaway and jerry lewis giving some of the best performances of their lives, and still being upstaged by this other guy. And a sweet, unsappy magical realism.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: annabel on April 23, 2006, 05:15:09 AM
This is not an overlooked film necessarily, but a 1994 version of Lassie came out (got it for my kids in the bargain bin) and Michelle Williams is the lead teenage girl.  I never would have recognized her.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: maya on April 23, 2006, 12:04:19 PM
Overlooked....i don't know, but great for sure :

U-Turn by Oliver Stone , with Sean Penn, Nick Nolte and Jennifer Lopez (yes, i was surprised by her ... )  1997
i remember the big impression it had on me, ouh .... Sean Penn and Nick Nolte were fabulous and the end is terrific

_ Following by Christopher Nolan , with Memento for sure, but Following is quite unusual and deserved more attention
here is an interview with Nolan : http://www.indiewire.com/people/int_Nolan_Christophe_2A74A.html

_ Then and my favorite, Being John Malkovich by Spike Jonze with John Cusack  1999
how can i explain that, it was an incredible experience for me, such a great idea, i mean, it was so original and inventive, i have no word to describe how i love that movie.  Spike Jonze found tons of great ideas in this movie, it's simply brilliant, and eternal sunshine of the spotlessmind reminds me Being Malkovich with tons of good qualities
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120601/
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Desecra on April 23, 2006, 12:20:55 PM
Thanks for those, Maya - I haven't seen U-Turn but will see if I can rent it.

Following I agree - very worth seeing.  Not deep, but short, just enough time to tell the story.  I enjoyed it more than Memento - perhaps just because it was short. 

I loved Being John Malkovitch, but hadn't thought it was overlooked.  [Whereas I thought my Breaking the Waves suggestion was overlooked - turns it wasn't at all, so what do I know?].

Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Desecra on April 23, 2006, 12:57:20 PM
'Night of the HUnter' [Charles Laughton] with Robert Mitchum - not really overlooked as I think some people see it as a masterpiece, but I don't know many who have heard of it.  Haunting, chilling,  unforgettable.  I keep imagining I see its influence in other films - maybe I do!

And another one, and maybe this one is just me because none of my friends thought much of it, but I loved 'Lilo and Stitch' - yes, the Disney film!  I loved the drawings/animation [I don't know the correct terminology], bright colours, GREAT music - Elvis instead of your usual Phil Collins/Elton John mawkish rubbish [apologies to their fans, but I cringe at songs like 'Can you feel the love tonight'].  But most suprising was the subject matter.  An orphaned dysfunctional family, a child looked after by her sister who does her best to avoid social services invoking child protection proceedings whilst trying to earn a living, the main character a little girl who is so aggressive, antisocial, lonely and grief-stricken that the only 'person' she can relate to is an evil, alien killing machine.  I lost it when Stitch describes the family as 'little and broken, but still good'.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: jayiijay on April 23, 2006, 01:57:12 PM
DESCRA & MAYA:

Being John Malkovich won all sorts of awards (including Best Picture from the National Society of Film Critics in a tie with Topsy Turvy), was nominated for all the guilds, several Oscars (though very surprisingly not Best Picture - not enough box office, plus over the heads of the old-guard Academy morons who snubbed Brokeback).

Night of the Hunter, however, was completely overlooked in its time, nominated for nothing.  As you said, now many considered it to be a masterpiece, it turns up regularly on lists of 100 Greatest films of all time (world cinema, not just American).  It is certainly one of my favorites, director Charles Laughton created an atmosphere that has never been matched.  Robert Mitchum & Lillian Gish were never better (and of course, not even nominated).
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: maya on April 23, 2006, 02:01:10 PM


I loved Being John Malkovitch, but hadn't thought it was overlooked.  [Whereas I thought my Breaking the Waves suggestion was overlooked - turns it wasn't at all, so what do I know?].



I'm French and i think this movie was quite overlooked here, i don't know what the Americans think about it, glad if it made its way ! Sorry for my english, sometimes i don't even know if it's really english ....
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: jayiijay on April 23, 2006, 02:57:44 PM
MAYA:

Your English is fine!!!

How has Brokeback Mountain been received in France?  As you know, it won almost every award in America (except the Oscar), the most ever, plus won everything in England and the Venice Film Festival.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Dave Cullen on April 23, 2006, 03:50:00 PM
I loved Being John Malkovitch, but hadn't thought it was overlooked.  [Whereas I thought my Breaking the Waves suggestion was overlooked - turns it wasn't at all, so what do I know?].

i loved Malkovitch for the first 40 minutes to an hour, but i think it had a dozen or two fascinating ideas too many. i don't know that i've ever criticized a film for having too many great ideas before, but it really overloaded its plate.

 it was one hell of a ride, but it kept hurling ideas at a so fast, there was no time to process any of them, much less reflect on them, or explore them. i love a movie that makes me think, but there was no time to think. and they didn't think through many of the ideas too thoroughly either, just moved on to the next.

it was jam-packed with brilliant stuff--way too packed.

some of the images stayed with me, but not many of the ideas, and few feelings. ultimately, it had the effect of a really great thriller/chase film: one hell of a great two hours, but not much resonance afterward. i found i wasn't thinking about any of it two days later.

i admire so much about it, there was more brillance in that film than in most of the other films that year combined. just not restraint.

and then along came eternal sunshine. wow. one great idea and just spun the hell out of it. nearly as many twists as Malkovitch, but all round the same central axis, exploring the one central idea deeper, taking its ramifications further and further and further and further.

mesmerizing.

one of my favorite film experiences ever. i can't wait to see what they cook up next.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Dave Cullen on April 23, 2006, 04:17:35 PM
A post about The Wizard of Oz in the over-rated films thread made me think of the song "How Are Things in Glocca Morra," the theme song from Finian's Rainbow.

http://imdb.com/title/tt0062974/

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/finians_rainbow/

I'm not sure it counts as a great film, but it sure did stick with me for nearly 40 years.

I stumbled across it a year or two ago, and you definitely have to swallow a lot of hokum, but it's worth it just for the sight of Petula Clark rising over the hilltop in a field of (daisies?) in the opening shot, singing . . . singing i can't remember what, actually, but her glowing face and lilting voice are enough. (From a person who can't stand musicals that stop the action cold for a song.)

(It might have been "Look To The Rainbow" in the opening. It's all a big haze now.)

And it still makes my heart yearn for imaginary places like Glocca Morra, and the people who dream of them.

It was one of Francis Ford Coppola's first films, and one of Fred Astaire's last. There are definitely touches of greatness visible from both of them here. But Petula is what makes it for me. And that song.

I don't know how much it got noticed at the time, but no one I run into lately has heard of it, so I'm putting it on my list.

Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Cletis on April 23, 2006, 09:26:21 PM
Here is a list of movies that pierced my soul (in a good way) that everybody else hated or overlooked:

Gerry Gus Van Sant's existential journey.  Matt Damon and Casey Affleck lost in the desert.  Sparse dialogue. The boys invent an interesting idiolect.   This is an experience; not a movie.

Mullholland Drive David Lynch's haunting examination of an actress's psyche.

Requiem for a Dream  The inside/out of addictions.


Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: maya on April 23, 2006, 09:55:45 PM
MAYA:

Your English is fine!!!

How has Brokeback Mountain been received in France?  As you know, it won almost every award in America (except the Oscar), the most ever, plus won everything in England and the Venice Film Festival.  Thanks!

thanks....so much !!
i believe i can say here that BBM was totally overlooked in France, the medias didn't talk so much about the film, it was just a story between all the others, you know what i mean ....i was so sad, so when i saw this forum ..... what a relief, all of you feeling the same way as me on BBM, so great !

and cletis, mulholland Drive, i loved
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: jayiijay on April 23, 2006, 10:13:49 PM
CLETIS:

You will be pleased to know that Mulholland Drive isn't now, and wasn't overlooked when released.  Yes, the idiot Academy didn't nominate it for Best Picture (Best Director was its only nomination; just like Blue Velvet in '86; Lynch is the only director to have that dubious distinction twice), but it received raves and won the prestigious New York Film Critics Award for Best Picture (just like Brokeback!).   Since then, if you check out movie buff sites, it is a clear front-runner for Best Picture of the Decade (along with The Pianist, Moulin Rouge, In the Mood for Love, Eternal Sunshine, Russian Ark, Brokeback Mountain, and maybe one or two others I am not thinking of).  It would have been my favorite of 2001, but admittedly the twist diminished it for me a bit for reasons I won't get into for fear of causing a spoiler.  It also put Naomi Watts on the map (wasn't she great; also not nominated, unbelievable), but so was unsung Laura Herring.

Requiem for a Dream also has a cult following, movie buffs remain outraged that Ellen Burstyn lost the Oscar to Julia Roberts.  Not a personal favorite, I frankly thought Burstyn way-overdid it, but many people love that movie.

I just saw Gerry and whole-heartedly agree.  Usually I don't like anything with Matt Damon or especially anybody named Affleck, LOL, but they were terrific.  Often really like Gus Van Sant - Drugstore Cowboy, My Own Private Idaho, though sometimes I don't get it (Elephant).


MAYA:  Perhaps Brokeback wasn't a big deal in France because they are not as puritanical as so many Americans - I hope.  Curious to see if it will receive a Cesar nomination for Foreign Film.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Dave Cullen on April 23, 2006, 11:38:30 PM
i loved Requiem.

hmmmm. maybe the wrong word. i was really impressed by Requiem. and disturbed by it, which was the point.

from my mini-review on my blog when i finally saw it:

Quote
Not just a descent into hell, four separate simultaneous descents. Slowly, agonizingly gradual for awhile, but the drain grows slicker on the way down, and suddenly it's spiralling so fast between the four of them I need to call somebody who loves me.

http://blogs.salon.com/0001137/2005/02/27.html#a1526

i didn't think ellen was over the top--or not inappropriately so. each of the four took a different path to hell and she was riding the uppers so she was supposed to be spastic. she embodied it. (matt dillon got the tweaker's sideways jaw-clicking thing perfectly in drugstore cowboy, but that was just a guy using, this was a woman going nuts on it.)

how come jared leto never gets any notice? too pretty? he's been mesmerizing in everything i've seen him in, starting, of course, with My So Called Life.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: downloaded1 on April 23, 2006, 11:41:09 PM
Quote
Not just a descent into hell, four separate simultaneous descents.

It was disturbing.
And it seems the people that didnt like the film , used that as the excuse.
Which makes no sense.
It accurately portrayed the hell of addiction.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Desecra on April 24, 2006, 12:18:56 AM
MAYA:  Perhaps Brokeback wasn't a big deal in France because they are not as puritanical as so many Americans - I hope.  Curious to see if it will receive a Cesar nomination for Foreign Film.  Thanks!

I don't think gay themed films are such a big deal in Europe as the US [although I've never been to the US so could be wrong].  I remember watching 'Get Real' here - it was a nice little teenage romance story over here, but I wondered what the US would make of it.  The main character was a 16 year old boy who was clearly sexually active with men, and the film didn't protray this as 'a bad thing' :).   I have got the impression that 16 seems to be considered younger in the US than it is here [i.e. still almost a child].
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Dave Cullen on April 24, 2006, 12:32:49 AM
Bound.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/bound/

It was nicely reviewed at the time, but it only grossed $3.8 milllion, no major awards or even noms to speak of, and hardly anyone seems aware of it.

I think it was the first film by the Wachowski brothers, and in many ways a much better film.

Best caper film I can think of since The Big Sleep, or maybe The Grifters, though the latters charms weren't in its caperiness. And it was wonderfullly stylized, a visual knockout kind of along the lines of the cohen brothers, but better, to my eyes.

 and it's so hot that even though the sexual attraction is between two women, i watched it with my gynophobic boyfriend and we both got really turned on. He swears it is the only time in his life he got turned on by a womsn. And there was no man even present (sexually).

Just absolutely perfect at what it was trying to be.

i guess the problem was what it was trying to be. award-givers don't want to "waste" their awards on caper films, but this was expertly conceived and executed. not a flaw to be found, and so many wonders to behold.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: jayiijay on April 24, 2006, 03:45:13 PM
DAVE:

What bothered me about Ellen Burstyn's performance was her Brooklyn accent.  Way too self-conscious, a real distraction for me, so by the time she took her "ride", I disliked her.  I know it was intentional, but I felt like Tarnofksy was trying to impress me more than engage me.  The disturbing aspects were fine, I just found the execution and editing too frenetic, even for the story it told.

Loved Bound, the one time I could actually stomach Jennifer Tilly.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: dback on April 24, 2006, 04:36:44 PM
DESCRA:

Most of the reviews were fantastic.  It won all sorts of awards in Europe (the FELIX, etc.), and in the U.S., the National Society of Film Critics, runner-up at the New York Film Critics, a Golden Globe nominee for Best Picture, etc.  It was not expected to be an Oscar Best Picture nominee because everyone knows how pedestrian the Academy is (this is not post-Brokeback loss sour grapes talking, it has always been true, spoken as an ex-avid-Oscars-fan), and even Emily Watson was considered to be an iffy Best Actress nominee in '96.  Check out the March issue of Premiere mag - Emily Watson's performance is listed as the 18th greatest ever captured on film, and the 4th best ever by a woman, behind only Meryl Streep in Sophie's Choice, Bette Davis in All About Eve and Katharine Hepburn in Lion in Winter (good but a bit overrated, imo - stagey).  The performance should have made the top 10, some of the men placed above her were ridiculous, but #18 ever by anybody ain't bad!  Also, in polls of the best films of the 90s, Waves is regularly in the top 10.  Internationally it does even better.  I am confident that when the next Sight & Sound world cinema poll comes out in 2012, Waves will make the 100 and its placement among films of the '90s will be top 3.  It's an amazing film.

Okay, I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here.  I've not seen "Breaking the Waves," but I've read a lot about it.  Many female film critics have some very serious issues with it, as they do with lots of Lars Von Trier films--he seems to be very mysogenistic in the way he likes to humiliate and degrade his female characters.  Would you disagree, and should I still see the movie even with these reservations?
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Dave Cullen on April 24, 2006, 04:36:48 PM
DAVE:

What bothered me about Ellen Burstyn's performance was her Brooklyn accent.  Way too self-conscious, a real distraction for me, so by the time she took her "ride", I disliked her.  I know it was intentional, but I felt like Tarnofksy was trying to impress me more than engage me.  The disturbing aspects were fine, I just found the execution and editing too frenetic, even for the story it told.

Loved Bound, the one time I could actually stomach Jennifer Tilly.

oh. i didn't even notice it. i don't know my ny accents that well, so just accepted it.

yeah, i've otherwise not been a huge fan of either of the tillys, but she was pitch perfect there. and perfect for the part.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: jayiijay on April 24, 2006, 08:38:06 PM
Has anybody seen "Camp" directed by Todd Graff from 2003?  Really sweet, overlooked film about a group of teenagers who attend a musical theater camp.  A new straight kid arrives and complications inevitably ensue, including an inevitable gay-straight crush.  Beware, the opening scene is very heavy handed, plus I didn't like one or two of the lead actors, but I loved the movie on account of its energy.  The theater scenes are terrific, often matching the best of Broadway in terms of sheer talent some of the kids display, and there is a hilarious sub-plot involving a stuck-up blonde girl and her "groupie" (Anna Kendricks, in a performance that I would have nominated).  No pretense - just fun.


Also:  Before Sunrise & Before Sunset, with Ethan Hawke and the outstanding Julie Delpy.  The latter got some screenplay prizes, but for the most part these films were overlooked by the critics and public.  The basic plot is boy meets girl while traveling, they have limited time, but its the dialogue that moved me.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: bluebird2 on April 24, 2006, 09:22:03 PM
This film most probably has already been mentioned on this thread--It's JUNEBUG.  Although iit received an Academy Awards (excuse foul language!) best supporting actress nomination, no one I mention it to has seen it.  I thought it was terrific.  I must look up the box office it did---but I think it fits in this "overlooked" category.  I should probably be honest and admit that I most likely would not have seen it either if there had been more than two films showing when I was in Provincetown last September--I had already seen the other.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Desecra on April 25, 2006, 12:04:49 PM

Okay, I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here.  I've not seen "Breaking the Waves," but I've read a lot about it.  Many female film critics have some very serious issues with it, as they do with lots of Lars Von Trier films--he seems to be very mysogenistic in the way he likes to humiliate and degrade his female characters.  Would you disagree, and should I still see the movie even with these reservations?

I hope you don't mind me answering.  The film didn't come across as misogynist to me, as a female viewer. It may have been intended to be misogynist and I missed the point :).
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: dback on April 25, 2006, 01:34:24 PM
Also:  Before Sunrise & Before Sunset, with Ethan Hawke and the outstanding Julie Delpy.  The latter got some screenplay prizes, but for the most part these films were overlooked by the critics and public.  The basic plot is boy meets girl while traveling, they have limited time, but its the dialogue that moved me.

There are moments in "Before Sunrise/Sunset" that are almost as haunting and emotionally impactful as those in "Brokeback."  The scene in the first film in the morning after Jesse and Celine have spent the night in the park, and he says "I want to take your picture..." and all he does is stare at her face for about 15 wordless seconds, with an expression of such utter love and tenderness, it's heart-melting.  Ethan Hawke is so damn underrated it's tragic, though he selflessly hands "Before Sunset" over to Julie Delpy, and she runs for her life with it. 
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: jayiijay on April 25, 2006, 02:16:21 PM
DBACK:  Thanks for the reply re: Before Surnise & Sunset - nicely stated.  Didn't Ethan & Julie also get screenplay credits for the films?  I wonder how much was improv - it sure felt that way, to its credit.

DESECRA:  From what I know, director Lars von Trier intended Breaking the Waves and Dancer in the Dark to be indictments on the treatment of women.  It can be debated whether von Trier went too far in the manifestation of his ideas and unwittingly created misogynistic works, but certainly that was not his intent (based both upon interviews I have read/seen and the films themselves).  There's no doubt about it, they are hard to watch, but the wobbly hand-held cinematography wasn't for lack of budget, but rather to to create a queezy feeling since much of what we were seeing was sickening.  In my eyes, Waves is a great film, perhaps a masterpiece, since for my sensibilities, von Trier walked up to the line without crossing it.  On the other hand, there was that one-word French film whose name escapes me at the moment from 2 years ago where they graphically filmed a 10 minute rape sequence.  Couldn't stomach it, felt it was gratuitious far beyond what was necessary to make the point. 
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: jayiijay on April 25, 2006, 11:03:49 PM
"The Search", 1948, d. Fred Zinnemann.  Montgomery Clift.

For those who get Turner Classic Movies, one of my all-time favorites is on at 12:15 a.m. on Sunday morning (late Saturday night -always confusing, at least to me, LOL).  It is called The Search, with Montgomery Clift in his screen debut (Red River was filmed first but this was released first).  The story is simple, an American GI helps a boy search for his mother in post WW-II Germany - don't want to say anymore about the plot.  Even though the film was acclaimed in its year (Oscar nominations for Best Director, Screenplay, Actor, though not Picture), it is often overlooked today.  See it!  thx


Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Dave Cullen on April 26, 2006, 11:22:57 AM
DBACK:  Thanks for the reply re: Before Surnise & Sunset - nicely stated.  Didn't Ethan & Julie also get screenplay credits for the films?  I wonder how much was improv - it sure felt that way, to its credit.

Before Sunset. wow. finally saw it last fall, and was completely in awe. and in love with julie deply. definitely one of the most overlooked films of the past few years. (both in terms of much of the public seeing it, and also awards recognition. i think julie made some critics lists, but to get shut out of the oscars was a crime.)

i never saw the original and this worked fine on its own, though i imagine it would have been even better with the first one, and the long wait.

ethan hawke was the main reason for the delay. i've never liked the guy: something about his manner turns me off, and that wispy facial hair looks like he's 14, trying to grow something--a huge physical turnoff.

but this film turned him around for me. he was very good, and yes, they both got writing credits, and from what i read most of it was ad-libbed/collaborated between the three. wow. they are some fucking smart people. because even most really smart people i know what be boring as hell to watch converse on their good days. and not nearly so full of great ideas.

i wrote on and on about this film on my blog when i saw it. (just looked it up and prefer this description of ethan: "I don't mind looking at him anymore, even if he would be infinitely more pleasing without all that wispy kudzu he can't really grow creeping around his mouth."

hehehe

i thought i had capture two dozen of my favorite moments there, but apparently i scribbled them down in the margin of a newspaper beside me and never got around to typing them in. i think it's still around somewhere, filed somewhere.  but i did summarize my favorite:

OK, my favorite was his sudden lament, late in the game, when he started unveiling more of the truth, that his sex life was abysmal, like one of those Trappist monks he'd been talking about, ten times in four years, maybe, and she starts laughing at him, and he's a little hurt--"you think that's funny?"--and she explains no, no, I'm not laughing at your sex life, I'm just wondering where these monks are who get to have sex ten times every four years.

hehehe

http://blogs.salon.com/0001137/2005/09/15.html#a1673
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Dave Cullen on April 26, 2006, 11:38:14 AM
DESECRA:  From what I know, director Lars von Trier intended Breaking the Waves and Dancer in the Dark to be indictments on the treatment of women.  It can be debated whether von Trier went too far in the manifestation of his ideas and unwittingly created misogynistic works, but certainly that was not his intent (based both upon interviews I have read/seen and the films themselves). 

Interesting that he thinks he was doing the opposite. I take him at his word that he thinks that's what he was doing, at least consciously, but you know, he just seemed to enjoy it a bit too much.

In my book, GUILTY!

And his attempts to convey such an intent seems highly misguided, to the point of ludicrousness. He doesn't portray women in particular as having a hard lot in life--most of what happens to them has nothing to do with their gender. And in Dancer, in particular, she faces an incredible (preposterous?) string of bad luck / insanely bad timing to bring her down. And of course in both cases, it had everything to do with the woman's unique personality.

How it can be read the way he claims is pretty preposterous. And he didn't just show them having a hard life, he freaking tortured those women.

I really think you can tell a lot about a writer/director by the dignity/respect they show toward their characters. Chekov is the classic example of having all sorts of charcters from all different classes, some good, some bad, but he never sneers at any of them or hold any of them in contempt. whether he is showing us a flighty princess or her struggling cleaning woman, he shows them all respect.

lars is not contemptuous of his lead characters, but lengths he goes to to pummel them just seems to go so far beyond anything necessary for his story, it began to feel grumesome to watch and it just felt like watching an insanely vindictive man bashing the hell out of his whipping-boy of a character and just salivating all over it. it was disgusting.

if you want to create a modern Job to tell a certain story, fine. but if you just want to beat the shit out of someone to beat the shit out of them . . . maybe you need to see someone.

(btw: i'll have to think about the misogony thing. for some reason--a combination of the films and interviews with him--i saw him as more misanthropic than misogonystic. he seems to hold the human race in a certain contempt, and women are easy targets.)
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Dave Cullen on April 26, 2006, 11:48:27 AM
This film most probably has already been mentioned on this thread--It's JUNEBUG.  Although iit received an Academy Awards (excuse foul language!) best supporting actress nomination, no one I mention it to has seen it.  I thought it was terrific.  I must look up the box office it did---but I think it fits in this "overlooked" category.  I should probably be honest and admit that I most likely would not have seen it either if there had been more than two films showing when I was in Provincetown last September--I had already seen the other.

man, i loved this. only saw it last month. first film i rented when i got netflix.

i never would have seen it without all the awards for amy, and she sure deserved them. as much as i loved michelle in bbm, i had to confess that amy was more spellbinding. (she prolly should have won best actress, though) i'm so glad she won the spirit award.

i also wish the screenplay had gotten more acclaim. really deftly handled, for material that is so easy to go astray.

huh. funny i should have just mentioned chekov. this was totally chekovian in the way it handled its characters. all of them got their due--even the ben mckenzie character, eventually. the city girl was not stuck up or prentious and the country folk were not idiotic hicks. nobody was wrong here. but . . .

i loved everything about it.

and i loved the way each character was introduced, so vividly. and i've never seen an intro quite like amy's: (SPOILER ALERT) a sudden cut to her, just standing there looking out the window expectantly, but just gushing, without speaking, and they cast an intense warm light on her (and some sort of jump in the background score), it was almost like jesus suddenly appearing in full glory. just for a moment, but man. (in writeup here, i have a feeling it comes across heavy-handed, and i'm sure everyone working on it was terrified the director was going to overdo it. hitting just the right note without going over  would be so hard to do, but he nailed it.

and the leading male character, the husband. mmmmmm. i've never seen him before, and he's not quite matinee idol material, but that face, that smile, those dimples . . . man, i want to see him again. (oh, and that ass! the brief sex scene was fucking hot, even if it was one of those intergender couples.)
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: dback on April 26, 2006, 12:18:36 PM

(btw: i'll have to think about the misogony thing. for some reason--a combination of the films and interviews with him--i saw him as more misanthropic than misogonystic. he seems to hold the human race in a certain contempt, and women are easy targets.)

I don't know if that attitude sums up Lars Von Trier, but it sure sums up Stanley Kubrick!  :)
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: jayiijay on April 26, 2006, 02:12:18 PM
DAVE:  Re: Lars Von Trier - I hear you and of course respect what you are saying, but disagree.  Yes, the women are way over-abused, but I felt he portrayed his female victims as being "better" than all others, Christ-like martyrs who must suffer to expunge the sins of the people.  I haven't seen Waves or Dancer in years so forgive my lack of specificity, but I remember thinking both Emily Watson and Bjork were intentionally portrayed as simple, extremely good humans with hard lots in life but without guile, as opposed to the men, like Stellan whatshisname in waves, who is initially seen as her match in goodness, but later reveals his cunning.  The societies are evil male-dominated places, the women try to navigate them, turning the other cheek while tortured, and die for the sins of man.  As you know, the bells at the end of Waves are meant to signify the resurrection of a Christ-like figure, and I bought into it because of her conversations with God and the way she endured.  I squirmed, but even when von Trier crossed the line I stuck with it because I wasn't meant to be just some audience member blithely judging.  Rather, I was being told I too was guilty of the disgraceful treatment of women via complacency, that society must change, and I liked the message.  The late Katrin Cartlidge was the other "good person" in Waves, in a great performance.  As for von Trier enjoying the sadism, I don't know, I hope not, I didn't feel that way.  The example I gave in my original post alluded to Gaspar Noe's film Irreversible, in which there is a disgusting 10 minute rape seen.  In my eyes, that felt gratuitous and way over the top (though no doubt the director would defend his choice), I guess you feel about von Trier's films, so perhaps it ultimately comes down to each of our individual sensibilities.

Re: Junebug - great analogy to Chekhov.  But Junebug was so much cheerier, LOL.

DBACK:  LOL re: Kubrick, the ultimate misanthrope...although I would argue Carl Dreyer & Robert Bresson could give him a run for their money.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: peteinportland on April 27, 2006, 02:50:39 AM
Speaking of Kubrick, I loved Eyes Wide Shut. Maybe not an overlooked film, but IMO, one that did not get its due.

Pete
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Boris on April 27, 2006, 10:55:22 AM
Hmmm... I didn't like Eyes Wide Shut. I WANTED to like it but I didn't. It seemed pretentious, somehow. There was something artificial in it. But then what do I know.

Has anyone enjoyed the movies by Alan Rudolph, especially his 1980's movies like "Choose Me"?
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Cletis on April 27, 2006, 11:57:09 AM
I thought Eyes Wide Shut was good, but not great. Some very haunting moments.

Two more movies, perhaps overlooked:

Jacob's Ladder --  a surreal examination :: confronting death.
Come Undone -- {foreign} Gay teen love story with an odd time shift ending. 

I enjoyed both.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: dback on April 27, 2006, 12:20:48 PM
I don't care for many Kubrick films, including "Eyes Wide Shut."  I'm not saying he's not talented (he's brilliant), but his artistic vision is so chilly and dehumanized and sterile, I have a hard time liking his stuff.  Surprisingly, despite its flaws (which are numerous, but that's another post), I really, REALLY liked "A.I."  I know, I know, load your weapons.

I adored "Choose Me"--one of the best movies EVER about romance and relationships.  Genevieve Bujold and Lesley Anne Warren have never been better.

I liked "Jacob's Ladder" very much--I don't care for horror movies by and large, but that was an exceptional one.

I should've mentioned "The Station Agent" several posts back, a wonderful, wonderful character study with the glorious Patricia Clarkson, the hunky and sweet Bobby Canavale (who should be Honorarily Gay by now after "Shall We Dance" "Will and Grace" and "The Guru"), and the remarkable Peter Dinklage.  (I don't care what people say, Dinklage is HOT.  He can curl up next to me and murmur a request in that rumbling purr of a voice, and I'll say "yes" to anything.)  Our gal Michelle Williams has a sweet little role in it, too.

Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Cletis on April 27, 2006, 01:33:05 PM

Blast from the Past was overlooked. It is not fine art, but it is warm and funny. It had a great cast: Brendan Fraser, Alicia Silverstone, Christopher Walken, Sissy Spacek, Dave Foley. Maybe give 'er a whirl?
 



Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Lola on April 27, 2006, 01:38:09 PM

Blast from the Past was overlooked. It is not fine art, but it is warm and funny. It had a great cast: Brendan Fraser, Alicia Silverstone, Christopher Walken, Sissy Spacek, Dave Foley. Maybe give 'er a whirl?
 

I LOVED that movie, I really did, I would recommend it to anyone!  :)
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: dback on April 27, 2006, 02:06:20 PM
Didn't love the movie, but Sissy Spacek is fall-on-the-floor hysterical.  (When is she not?)  She makes it worthwhile.

Speaking of Spacek: "A Home At The End of the World" features some great work by her, Colin Farrell, and Robin Wright Penn.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Desecra on April 27, 2006, 04:16:51 PM
I liked AI too.  I fouind it very moving.  Cried loads.

The Station Agent was lovely - I liked the very real emotions that we saw in that film.

And I liked Blast from the Past too.  I wouldn't say it's an overlooked masterpiece, but it was sweet and funny.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Desecra on April 27, 2006, 04:23:33 PM
I will probably be alone in this one, but I loved Bitter Moon [Roman Polanski].  It was one of my favourite films for a while.   I don't think many people liked it, but it just seemed to strike a chord with me.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: mary on April 27, 2006, 05:41:11 PM
Loved A Home at the End of the Workld, and I didn't think anything could make me like Colin Farell  :D.  I may actually watch the New World.
I also really like the guy who played Colin's character as a teenager.

Station Agent also is one of my personal favorite films thought I have to say I had to go back and watch it again to remember that Michelle Williams was in it - it was the first time I'd ever seen her in anything I think
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Lola on April 27, 2006, 07:08:47 PM
Didn't love the movie, but Sissy Spacek is fall-on-the-floor hysterical.  (When is she not?)  She makes it worthwhile.

Speaking of Spacek: "A Home At The End of the World" features some great work by her, Colin Farrell, and Robin Wright Penn.

She was really good in "In the Bedroom" kind of disturbing movie, but well done, great cast.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Desecra on April 28, 2006, 10:59:34 AM
Monsieur Hire [Leconte].  I've been trying to rent this for ages but it wasn't available - I have just found it's being released on DVD on the UK soon.  Based on a Simenon story, nice short film [I like short films to go with my short attention span], atmospheric, interesting lead character, good story, good music, haunts you for a while afterwards.  I haven't seen it since it came out in the cinema - really looking forward to a second viewing.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: BRAD1963 on April 28, 2006, 11:01:29 AM
PRIDE & PREJUDICE from last year.  It was perfect on all levels and was ANOTHER FILM THAT WAS BETTER THAN "CRASH"!!!!
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: sinne on April 28, 2006, 10:37:51 PM
sinne, I just have to tell you that I read in Daily Variety a rave review of the stage show, "Hedwig and the Angry Inch," currently at the Roxy Theater in Los Angeles.  Donovan Leitch is praised for his performance as Hedwig.  (http://smilies.sofrayt.com/fsc/smile1.gif)

Casper - Thanks!  Gee.... I haven't been on this thread in a long time.  It's hard to keep up.  Did you see "Hedwig" with Donovan?  I remember hearing he was going to be playing in it.  L.A. is a long way from where I am, but thanks for letting me know.  If you can post the review, I'd love to see it! 
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: sinne on April 28, 2006, 10:44:33 PM
I keep mentioning this film on various threads so more people will see it - "Hedwig and the Angry Inch".  

Yes! 'Hedwig' is a must see! I was living in Athens, Georgia when it was released, just so happens that was also where director/star John Cameron Mitchell was living at the time, so the movie got a lot of promotion just from word of mouth in the Atlanta/Athens area. I thought it was going to be the next 'Rocky Horror Picture Show'. Highly recommended!

I would also recommend, and I mentioned this somewhere else on here, Ang Lee's first "gay" movie 'The Wedding Banquet'.

Thanks!  Like I just posted to Casper, I haven't been back on this thread in ages.  Wow - that's really cool about JCM living in the same town you were.  I think he's a genius.  His next film - "Shortbus" - is at the Cannes Film Festival in May.  Can't wait to hear more about it.  That's a long break between films.  I saw "The Wedding Banquet" when it was first released but can't remember much about it.  I must watch it again.  Thanks for reminding me.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: sinne on April 28, 2006, 11:29:05 PM
OK, since I haven't been here in ages, here are some overlooked (or maybe not?) films I highly recommend:

Stevie - Glenda Jackson - about the poet Stevie Smith.  I have watched this many times and love it more and more each time.
Ruby in Paradise - with a very young Ashley Judd, might be her first movie.  Little slice-of-life, very well done.
House of Games - David Mamet.  I recommended it to everyone when I discovered it and everyone loved it. Lots of twists and turns.
Last Night - a great little Canadian film by the always-interesting Don McKellar, and featuring Sandra Oh, who's equisite.
My Life as a Dog - Swedish.  Directed by Lasse Halstrom, before he came to America and went downhill.
Citizen Ruth - black comedy about both sides of the abortion issue.  Laura Dern is always putting it all on the line & successfully.
Rambling Rose - another Laura Dern gem.
Manny & Lo - Scarlett Johannson as a kid in a wonderful story of two motherless girls.
Crumb - documentary about underground cartoonist R. Crumb.  Unforgettable.  (probably not so overlooked...?)
84 Charing Cross Road - based on a lovely little book  - with Anne Bancroft, Anthony Hopkins and Judi Dench - all in top form.
Dirty Pretty Things - our local film society patrons voted this their #2 fav, after "Whale Rider".  Got spontaneous applause in the middle!
Entertaining Mr. Sloane - black comedy by playright Joe Orton.  Not for everyone but I loved it.
The Shop Around the Corner - hopefully not overlooked.  Don't miss it if you've never seen it.  Pauline Kael called it "sheer perfection".

That's all for now....
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: jayiijay on April 29, 2006, 09:21:24 PM
SINNE:

Terrific list.  I agree with every film you mentioned that I have seen, and will now make sure I eventually see Last Night and Manny & Lo - so thank you!

Stevie was a 1978 release but somehow the Academy deemed overlooked it.  Then, when it got re-released in 1981, it won Best Actress for Glenda Jackson and Supporting Actress for Mona Washbourne at the New York Film Critics and other groups, but the Academy said too late.  Both women deserved nominations (at least) whether '78 or '81, just more errors.

The Shop Around the Corner was definitely overlooked in 1940, it faced a lot of stiff competition, but it is very highly regarded today.  Rambling Rose got nominations for Laura Dern and mom Diane Ladd (that was a first), but you are right, the movie went nowhere, it deserved better.  Crumb got huge great acclaim but the idiots on the Academy documentary committee did not deem it worthy.  My Life as a Dog got a director nomination for Lasse Hallstrom in '87, but the antiquated Academy rules on Foreign Film rendered it ineligible for a nomination.  Bad.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: sinne on April 29, 2006, 10:12:43 PM
"The Search", 1948, d. Fred Zinnemann.  Montgomery Clift.

For those who get Turner Classic Movies, one of my all-time favorites is on at 12:15 a.m. on Sunday morning (late Saturday night -always confusing, at least to me, LOL).  It is called The Search, with Montgomery Clift in his screen debut (Red River was filmed first but this was released first).  The story is simple, an American GI helps a boy search for his mother in post WW-II Germany - don't want to say anymore about the plot.  Even though the film was acclaimed in its year (Oscar nominations for Best Director, Screenplay, Actor, though not Picture), it is often overlooked today.  See it!  thx

We must be on a bit of a delay with Turner Classics in Canada.  This is just about to start.  I've never seen it but I trust your judgement - thanks for the recommendation!  I'm in the middle of watching Woody Allen's "Match Point" but I'll stop and watch this instead, although I am enjoying it more than I expected.......
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: sinne on April 29, 2006, 10:15:34 PM
SINNE:

Terrific list.  I agree with every film you mentioned that I have seen, and will now make sure I eventually see Last Night and Manny & Lo - so thank you!

Stevie was a 1978 release but somehow the Academy deemed overlooked it.  Then, when it got re-released in 1981, it won Best Actress for Glenda Jackson and Supporting Actress for Mona Washbourne at the New York Film Critics and other groups, but the Academy said too late.  Both women deserved nominations (at least) whether '78 or '81, just more errors.

The Shop Around the Corner was definitely overlooked in 1940, it faced a lot of stiff competition, but it is very highly regarded today.  Rambling Rose got nominations for Laura Dern and mom Diane Ladd (that was a first), but you are right, the movie went nowhere, it deserved better.  Crumb got huge great acclaim but the idiots on the Academy documentary committee did not deem it worthy.  My Life as a Dog got a director nomination for Lasse Hallstrom in '87, but the antiquated Academy rules on Foreign Film rendered it ineligible for a nomination.  Bad.

Thanks for all the info.  You are a real movie buff!!!  Let me know what you think of "Last Night" (be sure to watch it all the way through to the end) and "Manny & Lo".  I could make a lot of these lists and I'm sure you could too!   :D
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: jayiijay on April 29, 2006, 10:38:24 PM
SINNE:

I am psyched you are watching The Search!  Really hope you like it, please let everyone know.

I agree re: Match Point, thought it was terrific, one of the best of 2005.  The Golden Globes wisely gave it a Best Picture nomination (along with Brokeback, Good Night & Good Luck, A History of Violence & The Constant Gardner...darn good group... gee, what did they leave out...oh yeah, Pride & Prejudice, but that was nominated for Best Musical or Comedy).  Cannes also loved Match Point.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: sinne on April 30, 2006, 12:12:45 AM
SINNE:

I am psyched you are watching The Search!  Really hope you like it, please let everyone know.

I agree re: Match Point, thought it was terrific, one of the best of 2005.  The Golden Globes wisely gave it a Best Picture nomination (along with Brokeback, Good Night & Good Luck, A History of Violence & The Constant Gardner...darn good group... gee, what did they leave out...oh yeah, Pride & Prejudice, but that was nominated for Best Musical or Comedy).  Cannes also loved Match Point.

OMG!  I LOVED "The Seach"!!!  Thank-you so much for recommending it.  I'm a mess.  Cried my eyes out.  As a "motherless child" myself, the theme really tore me apart.  It seemed like a foreign film - not American at all.  Makes me realize how American films have really gone downhill over the years eh?  The photography, the "sets" (Germany in ruins) and story were so realistic - almost like a documentary.  What I imagine Rosselini's films were like, though I've never see any - just stills from them.   Don't think I can go back and watch the rest of "Match Point" just now..... will have to finish it tomorrow.  Need to think about "The Search" some more.  God!  Montgomery Clift was gorgeous eh?
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: jayiijay on April 30, 2006, 01:04:10 PM
SINNE:

I am ecstatic you loved The Search.  So did I, obviously.  How could anyone not?  Even then the Academy was screwing things up royally, leaving it off the Best Picture list (not to mention Max Ophuls' Letter from an Unknown Woman and the other great Monty Clift film that year, Red River).

I like your analogy to the post-war films of Rossellini (not to mention Luchino Visconti), it does seem like director Fred Zinnemann was going for that feeling, and succeeded.  My favorite Rosselini is Open City, and I also like Paisan.  I am not a big fan of the highly acclaimed Voyage to Italy, and unfortunately have yet to see The Rise of Louis XIV.  Also, check out La Terra Trema by Visconti, it is amazing.  So is his 1963 The Leopard, but very different.  I think all are available on netflix, which I am not sure is available in Canada, but there is definitely a netflix equivalent, I occasionally get junk mail from them even though I am not eligible to use them.  If you do a google search no doubt you'll find them.

thx
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: sinne on April 30, 2006, 03:16:44 PM
SINNE:

I am ecstatic you loved The Search.  So did I, obviously.  How could anyone not?  Even then the Academy was screwing things up royally, leaving it off the Best Picture list (not to mention Max Ophuls' Letter from an Unknown Woman and the other great Monty Clift film that year, Red River).

I like your analogy to the post-war films of Rossellini (not to mention Luchino Visconti), it does seem like director Fred Zinnemann was going for that feeling, and succeeded.  My favorite Rosselini is Open City, and I also like Paisan.  I am not a big fan of the highly acclaimed Voyage to Italy, and unfortunately have yet to see The Rise of Louis XIV.  Also, check out La Terra Trema by Visconti, it is amazing.  So is his 1963 The Leopard, but very different.  I think all are available on netflix, which I am not sure is available in Canada, but there is definitely a netflix equivalent, I occasionally get junk mail from them even though I am not eligible to use them.  If you do a google search no doubt you'll find them.

thx

Oh yes - there's Netlflix or the equivalent in Canada.  I don't even want to start.  I am buying DVDs for my own collection and most of them are still in cellophane!  Too busy watching BBM or on this forum!  Perhaps I'll unhook my cable sometime and join, but I just started getting Turner Classics and I am loving it!  Keep the recommendations coming though - for future reference!  Thanks!
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: sunspot on May 05, 2006, 12:05:47 AM
Here's another vote for Citizen Ruth.  I saw it - must have been almost 10 years ago - during its initial run.  Haven't seen it since.  Remember a huge chunk of the film, and that seldom happens.  Think about the film often, probably once every month or two.  Highly recommended.  Laura Dern kicks all kinds of *ss!
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: dback on May 05, 2006, 12:49:33 AM
"Citizen Ruth" is FEARLESS, as is Laura Dern--her character is actually a serious pain in the butt, and very unlikable, but Dern plays her truthfully.  And the script pillories both sides of the issue.

I did, however, used to wonder at one point if Alexander Payne had some mysogeny going on towards women, as almost every one of his films has one who's either grotesque or on a destructive tear. (Dern and others in "Citizen Ruth," Reese Witherspoon and Matthew Broderick's wife and potential mistress in "Election," Kathy Bates and Hope Davis in "About Schmidt," and Sandra Oh in "Sideways"; Virginia Madsen played the warmest female character he's ever had.)
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Casper on May 05, 2006, 12:02:42 PM
"The Magdalene Sisters"  (2002)
Directed by Peter Mullan
Winner of Best Picture at the Venice Film Festival

This movie is based on a real institution that existed in Ireland and run by the Catholic Church.  Any girl who was viewed as "immoral" could be sent to one of the Magdalene laundries.  All it took was for a family member to visit a priest and arrangements would then be made to drag the girl to one of these rigid institutions.  The girls were humiliated and made to feel like scum of the earth and coerced to work 7 days a week in the laundries run by the strict Sisters.  Three of the girls decided that enough was enough and escaped to tell their horror stories to the Irish Government.  The Government listened and the Magdalene laundries were finally banished in 1996.

I like when a movie can move persons, especially a government, to change.  These Magdalene laundries were a disgrace and an embarrassment to the Catholic Church and the bravery of these 3 escapees led to their closure.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Carissa on May 05, 2006, 12:24:11 PM
Add my vote for "Citizen Ruth". :)  I haven't seen it in a number of years but always remember how it portrayed the extremists of that debate.

"The Magdalene Sisters"  (2002)
Directed by Peter Mullan
Winner of Best Picture at the Venice Film Festival
That movie was very good but it so disturbed me that it went on until the mid-90s.  Nora-Jane Noone was exceptional. 

Interesting factoid, the director Peter Mullan is now starring in "On a Clear Day" as Frank, the chap who swims the English Channel. :D
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: jayiijay on May 05, 2006, 04:45:03 PM
The Magdalene Sisters choices remind me of another excellent overlooked film:

"HEAVENLY CREATURES", d. Peter Jackson, 1994, with Kate Winslet. 

It's a true story, don't want to give spoilers, those interested should go to www.imdb.com for details.  All I'll say is that the ending was perhaps the most disturbing thing I've ever seen in a film, because it felt so real.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: sinne on May 05, 2006, 04:55:07 PM
The Magdalene Sisters choices remind me of another excellent overlooked film:

"HEAVENLY CREATURES", d. Peter Jackson, 1994, with Kate Winslet. 

It's a true story, don't want to give spoilers, those interested should go to www.imdb.com for details.  All I'll say is that the ending was perhaps the most disturbing thing I've ever seen in a film, because it felt so real.

I loved "Heavenly Creatures" and often recommend it to people, especially people who'd never heard of Kate Winslet until "Titanic".  Another overlooked one with her in it was "Hideous Kinky", about a young British "hippie", who travels to India with her two little girls (based on a true story).  Children are often so awful in movies but I still remember these two little girls quite fondly and Kate was good, as always.  She sure made some much better choices after "Titanic" than Leo did - at least critically, perhaps not box office successes though.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Carissa on May 05, 2006, 05:10:42 PM
The Magdalene Sisters choices remind me of another excellent overlooked film:

"HEAVENLY CREATURES", d. Peter Jackson, 1994, with Kate Winslet. 

It's a true story, don't want to give spoilers, those interested should go to www.imdb.com for details.  All I'll say is that the ending was perhaps the most disturbing thing I've ever seen in a film, because it felt so real.
I didn't see "Heavenly Creatures" until after I became a PJ fan. :)  I knew about the story and the fact that there was a movie made but didn't get around to seeing it until a few years ago.  It's definitely a sight to see. :) 

Wasn't Kate nominated for that role? *edit:  Kate wasn't but Peter and Fran were.  The movie did win Silver at the Venice Film Festival too.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Casper on May 06, 2006, 02:51:13 AM
"The Sailor Who Fell From Grace With The Sea"
1976
Directed by:  Lewis John Carlino

If you think those kids from "Lord of the Flies" were violent, wait until you see the kids in this movie! 

This movie is disturbing but it sticks in my mind because of the bone-chilling ending.  I'm not going to give out any spoilers but the fade-to-black climax hits you in the stomach with a heavy gnawing feeling.  You just keep saying to yourself, "I just can't believe those brats are going to do that to Kris Kristofferson." 
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: dback on May 07, 2006, 02:12:43 PM
"The Magdalene Sisters"  (2002)
Directed by Peter Mullan
Winner of Best Picture at the Venice Film Festival

This movie is based on a real institution that existed in Ireland and run by the Catholic Church.  Any girl who was viewed as "immoral" could be sent to one of the Magdalene laundries.  All it took was for a family member to visit a priest and arrangements would then be made to drag the girl to one of these rigid institutions.  The girls were humiliated and made to feel like scum of the earth and coerced to work 7 days a week in the laundries run by the strict Sisters.  Three of the girls decided that enough was enough and escaped to tell their horror stories to the Irish Government.  The Government listened and the Magdalene laundries were finally banished in 1996.

I like when a movie can move persons, especially a government, to change.  These Magdalene laundries were a disgrace and an embarrassment to the Catholic Church and the bravery of these 3 escapees led to their closure.


I haven't set foot in a Catholic Church since I saw that film, and if I ever have to (for a wedding or somesuch) I'm not giving them any money.   Horrifying beyond belief.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: hifrommike65 on May 09, 2006, 11:39:42 PM
I agree that THE SAILOR WHO FELL FROM GRACE WITH THE SEA is striking & well worth viewing.  I saw it when it was first released in 1976, & was stunned by how explicit the sex scenes were between Sarah Miles & Kris Kristofferson. 

I'll throw one into the mix: ON DANGEROUS GROUND (1951, dir. Nicholas Ray).  It has one of the best performances Ida Lupino ever gave, as a blind woman who realizes the man she fell in love with is trying to capture her brother, who's a fugitive from the law.  Powerful film.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Dangerous_Ground
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: downloaded1 on May 09, 2006, 11:41:25 PM
"Night, Mother"
with Sissy Spacek
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: dback on May 10, 2006, 12:56:40 AM
The Magdalene Sisters choices remind me of another excellent overlooked film:

"HEAVENLY CREATURES", d. Peter Jackson, 1994, with Kate Winslet. 

It's a true story, don't want to give spoilers, those interested should go to www.imdb.com for details.  All I'll say is that the ending was perhaps the most disturbing thing I've ever seen in a film, because it felt so real.

Amen to that.  It's a brilliant, brilliant film, but the ending was so horrifying I almost got sick watching it.  I think it could've ended a couple minutes earlier, and it would be pratically perfect.  Kate Winslet is astonishing (and apparently that's really her singing that operatic aria at sunset).
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: All4one on May 10, 2006, 07:36:22 AM
I still think of Ally Sheedy's eyes in Lisa Cholodenko's High Art.

You'll remember Sheedy as a member of the 80's 'Brat Pack'.  Somebody  recently watched The Breakfast Club .


Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Desecra on May 10, 2006, 01:41:13 PM
The Magdalene Sisters choices remind me of another excellent overlooked film:

"HEAVENLY CREATURES", d. Peter Jackson, 1994, with Kate Winslet. 

It's a true story, don't want to give spoilers, those interested should go to www.imdb.com for details.  All I'll say is that the ending was perhaps the most disturbing thing I've ever seen in a film, because it felt so real.

Amen to that.  It's a brilliant, brilliant film, but the ending was so horrifying I almost got sick watching it.  I think it could've ended a couple minutes earlier, and it would be pratically perfect.  Kate Winslet is astonishing (and apparently that's really her singing that operatic aria at sunset).

I loved Heavenly Creatures - I haven't seen it since it came out but it's one of those which stays with you.  It has reminded me of a couple of films from down under that I saw at a young age: 'Walkabout' and 'Picnic at Hanging Rock'.  I'm pretty sure that Walkabout was full of allegory that I missed at a tender age, and Picnic scared me too much to want to go through the experience again.  However both films haunted me.  Are they worth seeing again?
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: jayiijay on May 10, 2006, 05:22:10 PM
DESECRA:

Great analogy re: Heavenly Creatures to Picnic at Hanging Rock and Walkabout.  I would add Nicholas Roeg's Don't Look Now with Julie Christie and Donald Sutherland in what I think is among his finest performances (still smarting he didn't get nominated by that asshole Academy for supporting actor for Pride & Prejudice - he has never been nominated).  And how about The Last Wave?  The mid-70s thru early 80s was a mini-renaissance for the Australian film industry, my favorite being Breaker Morant.  I also used to like Gallipoli, but can no longer stand the sight of Mel Gibson post-Passion; sorry, I know that will offend some, I'll leave it at that.  Yikes, this posting is all over the place, LOL.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: sinne on May 10, 2006, 11:13:13 PM
DESECRA:

Great analogy re: Heavenly Creatures to Picnic at Hanging Rock and Walkabout.  I would add Nicholas Roeg's Don't Look Now with Julie Christie and Donald Sutherland in what I think is among his finest performances (still smarting he didn't get nominated by that asshole Academy for supporting actor for Pride & Prejudice - he has never been nominated).  And how about The Last Wave?  The mid-70s thru early 80s was a mini-renaissance for the Australian film industry, my favorite being Breaker Morant.  I also used to like Gallipoli, but can no longer stand the sight of Mel Gibson post-Passion; sorry, I know that will offend some, I'll leave it at that.  Yikes, this posting is all over the place, LOL.

Always meant to catch Picnic at Hanging Rock and Breaker Morant, but I can't stomach Mel Gibson either now so the time has passed to catch it.  Donald Sutherland was wonderful in Ordinary People - everyone was. 

BTW, has anyone mentioned "Tom Jones"?  Hardly overlookef, as I think it won the Best Picture Oscar but a lot of young people might not have seen it.  It's so good.  And "The Wrong Box", which we discussed earlier on another thread.  Hilarious! 
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: jayiijay on May 11, 2006, 09:19:01 AM
SINNE:

Tom Jones is a good choice because it is no longer that highly regarded, but a fun, wonderful film, in large part due to Albert Finney's great performance and the score.  As for that year's Oscars, look what it beat:  America, America (nice but too long); Lilies of the Field (way sentimental); How the West Was Won (monumentally dull); and Cleopatra (one of the all-time biggest disasters thanks in no small part to the studio's merciless editing of director Mankewicz's final cut).  There has rarely been a weaker field.  On the other hand, The Birds and Hud are recognized as finer films than all the Oscar nominees.  Even Jerry Lewis' Nutty Professor or Preminger's The Cardinal would have been more inspired choices than the last 3 nominees. 
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: dback on May 11, 2006, 02:51:40 PM
SINNE:

Tom Jones is a good choice because it is no longer that highly regarded, but a fun, wonderful film, in large part due to Albert Finney's great performance and the score.  As for that year's Oscars, look what it beat:  America, America (nice but too long); Lilies of the Field (way sentimental); How the West Was Won (monumentally dull); and Cleopatra (one of the all-time biggest disasters thanks in no small part to the studio's merciless editing of director Mankewicz's final cut).  There has rarely been a weaker field.  On the other hand, The Birds and Hud are recognized as finer films than all the Oscar nominees.  Even Jerry Lewis' Nutty Professor or Preminger's The Cardinal would have been more inspired choices than the last 3 nominees. 

Was that 1963?  In Danny Peary's "Alternate Oscars" book, he doesn't even award another film that year, saying that there was no American film released that year worthy of that level of accolade.  Ouch.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: TomS on May 11, 2006, 03:39:15 PM
dback,
I would have picked Hud that year, hands down.  Didn't even rate a Best Picture nomination  :-[ . 
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: jayiijay on May 11, 2006, 04:48:54 PM
DBACK AND TOMS:

1963.  And Hud for sure - although technically Hitchcock did an amazing job on Birds.  It's one of the few times I think a Picture Director split would have been warranted (poor Martin Ritt, LOL).


With all the Titanic trashing in these movie threads, how about "A Night to Remember" as an overlooked film.  We artsy film types know it, but I don't think most people do.  It is so much better than Titanic.  Just think, if Night had Titanic's 1997 visual effects, well, THAT would have been a movie! 
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: TomS on May 11, 2006, 05:08:37 PM
Hay jayiijay, check out p. 16 on The Most Overrated Films thread, you have a fellow Night to Remember fan on there! By the way I enjoy your analyses. 
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: brokebacktom on May 11, 2006, 05:26:40 PM
Hitchcook's LIFEBOAT.  It was great and one of my favs.  Great acting and direction

Others:

The Verdict- Paul Newman was awsome in it.
CapeFear- both versions
Suddenly, Last Summer- Liz taylor and Kate Hepburn were truely in top form. One of my all time favs.

Tom
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: jayiijay on May 11, 2006, 07:53:32 PM
TOMS:  Thanks, ditto.

BROKEBACKTOM:  I love Lifeboat too.   One of Hitchcock's most clever appearances.  The great Tallulah Bankhead won the New York Film Critics Award for Best Actress, yet the Academy didn't even nominate her, choosing shmaltz like Greer Garson in Mrs. Parkington and Claudette Colbert in Since You Went Away instead.  Superb actresses, nice acting in nice movies, but not on par with Tallulah's performance.  1944 was also the year where the ultra-sentimental Going My Way swept the Oscars over film noir classic Double Indemnity, not to mention non-nominees Miracle of Morgan's Creek & Hail the Conquering Hero by Preston Sturges (the former being one of my 3 favorite comedies ever), Meet Me in St. Louis (one of the 10 best film musicals), Laura...all undeniably superior as movie art to the winner.  See a pattern?  LOL.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: dback on May 11, 2006, 11:43:41 PM
I adore "Laura" so much--one of the all-time great, moody film noir murder mysteries.  And that score!  Plus Dana Andrews and Gene Tierney, yum.  (Pity Harrison Ford and Michelle Pfeiffer blowing their teaming-up on "What Lies Beneath"--they were two of the only people I could see today who might have pulled off a remake.)
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Casper on May 12, 2006, 03:00:41 PM
"Pink Flamingos"
Directed by John Waters
1972

This is a definite cult movie and only for a limited audience who is not turned off by someone eating dog waste just deposited on a sidewalk.  The legendary Divine shines through the whole movie.

I'm originally from Baltimore, so, I am aware that the town has quite a few eccentric people.

Edie Massey is hilarious as an adult child living out her life in a baby crib, holding a sweetheart box,  and the only thing on her mind are eggies.

There is a wide assortment of perversity on display but that is what makes this movie a one-of-a-kind celluloid event.

I know this movie can never be remade because who are they going to find to eat dog waste?
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: johnk on May 16, 2006, 12:06:29 PM

With all the Titanic trashing in these movie threads, how about "A Night to Remember" as an overlooked film.  We artsy film types know it, but I don't think most people do.  It is so much better than Titanic.  Just think, if Night had Titanic's 1997 visual effects, well, THAT would have been a movie! 


I just love "A Night To Remember" (although by way of disclaimer I should say I also love "Titanic").  I've seen both many times.  I do think it is a scandal that James Cameron literally lifted whole scenes from "A Night to Remember," dialog, settings and all (Bernard Fox is actually in both films, but in different roles).  I also think he squandered some of the talent he had at his disposal - IMHO, Winslet and DiCaprio have proven they are capable of better, and had Cameron paid more attention to his actors and less attention to the sets, we might have gotten it.  I totally agree that, if "A Night to Remember" had "Titanic's" spectacular technicals, that would have been some movie, for sure...
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Casper on May 16, 2006, 07:30:54 PM
I saw "A Night To Remember" along with the 1953 "Titanic" starring Clifton Webb and Barbara Stanwyck.  Both were good movies and had the gloomy b+w cinematography to cast its shadow of impending doom.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: johnk on May 17, 2006, 07:39:50 AM
I saw "A Night To Remember" along with the 1953 "Titanic" starring Clifton Webb and Barbara Stanwyck.  Both were good movies and had the gloomy b+w cinematography to cast its shadow of impending doom.

Also really liked the 1953 "Titanic" a lot.  I'm gonna guess that James Cameron lifted his "poor little rich girl" plot from this film - in this case Audrey Daulton plays Annette to a very young and cute Robert Wagner as frat boy Giff.  Thelma Ritter does a great job as a thinly veiled Molly Brown.  The sense of doom is further enhanced by Michael Rennie's foreboding voiceover.  I believe this film won an Oscar for best original screenplay (for what it's worth).

Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: daannzzz on May 17, 2006, 09:17:18 AM
I have always really enjoyed "A Night to Rememeber". Kenneth More and Laurence Naismith were both great.

One film I have always thought was overlooked was from 1980 calle "Resurrection" with Ellyn Burstyn. Wonderful acting and a touching story that almost had me sobbing at the end even though it isn't sad...so to speak.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Casper on May 17, 2006, 12:36:50 PM
One film I have always thought was overlooked was from 1980 calle "Resurrection" with Ellyn Burstyn. Wonderful acting and a touching story that almost had me sobbing at the end even though it isn't sad...so to speak.

daannzzz, I'm so glad you mentioned, "Resurrection," because it is a powerful film with a deep meaning.  It was surrealistic seeing Ellen Burstyn travel through the tunnel and she spots friends and relatives who have passed on only to be halted and brought back to life.  When she holds that boy who has cancer, and you hear that signature music playing, you are just jumping with joy inside knowing the boy is going to defy all the doctors.  Great film!!
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: jayiijay on May 17, 2006, 12:51:56 PM
DAANNZZZ:

IMO, Resurrection is a great choice for this thread.  Ellen Burstyn and the late great stage actress Eva Le Gallienne were both nominated for Oscars, I think the latter should have won (over Mary Steenburgen in Melvin & Howard; Mary was fun but Eva was more effective; close call).  On its face, the topic is not one that normally moves me, but I too was almost teary by the end, it was beautifully performed. 

Of course 1980 is the year when the fine but ordinary "Ordinary People" lost the Oscar to masterpiece "Raging Bull", while Oscarless Martin Scorsese lost to Robert Redford.  The latter did an excellent job, at least the Academy gave its prizes to a good film, but their job is to give it to the so-called best film from an artistic perspective.  Ordinary isn't in the same league as Raging.

Other good films that year, some of which could fall into the "overlooked" category, are The Great Santini, The Stunt Man, Melvin & Howard, Dressed to Kill, Airplane, and even Breaker Morant.  The Shining is another now semi-classic that didn't receive a single nomination.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: brokebacktom on May 17, 2006, 01:30:00 PM
Sorry guys but 'The Shining' was not that good. Good very scary performance by Jack N. but I was not scared at all. Visually stunning but not scary.
'Ressurection' on the other hand was over-looked. It was very powerful movie and statement.

Tom
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: jayiijay on May 17, 2006, 03:02:13 PM
BROKEBACKTOM:

I actually agree with you re: "The Shining", I was bored thru most of it too, but it is very highly regarded in the film buff world, certainly more than 1980 Best Picture nominees Coal Miner's Daughter and Tess (loved the latter).  Can we at least agree that Jack and Donald Sutherland in Ordinary People were far more worthy of a best actor nomination than Jack Lemmon in Tribute?  Lemmon was a wonderful actor, but that film was stagey and his performance overblown.

Dressed to Kill was the scariest film of 1980.  In fact, I consider it the scariest film I have ever seen.  I was in high school, saw it with 2 other friends in a virtually abandoned theater in Times Square.  The elevator scene began, I viscerally react even as I type.  Fortunately my friends were equally terrified, so we left and snuck into a revival of Lady & The Tramp next door.  Made it through the film years later, but always terrified, because it was so "real".  Dressed was on the NY Times 10 Best list but that's about it, so I think another good choice for this thread.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: dback on May 17, 2006, 03:21:40 PM

Other good films that year, some of which could fall into the "overlooked" category, are The Great Santini, The Stunt Man, Melvin & Howard, Dressed to Kill, Airplane, and even Breaker Morant.  The Shining is another now semi-classic that didn't receive a single nomination.

Oh yeah, Michael O'Keefe in "The Great Santini" is just shattering--he more than holds his own against Robert Duvall.  And I LOVE "The Stunt Man"--I think it's my favorite Peter O'Toole performance ever, and that's saying something up against "Lawrence of Arabia" and "The Lion In Winter" for starters.  It's also the best thing Steve Railsback ever did, and probably the best thing Barbara Hershey did before she really learned how to act ("Hannah and Her Sisters" "A World Apart").
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Casper on May 17, 2006, 03:34:08 PM
Regarding "The Shining," I do get scared because I can sense the evil of the spirits roaming around that spooky hotel in Colorado.  I still get edgy if I ever see a room number bearing "217."  Jack Nicholson's Jekyll/Hyde transformation is amazing.  I read the book about that animal hedge moving and I wished it would have been in this original.  Nevertheless, I still get goosebumps whenever I view "The Shining."
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: brokebacktom on May 17, 2006, 10:12:23 PM
Sorry Guys, I'm not there with you on 'The Shining'. Loved Jack's transformation, but sorry again I was not scared.  What scared me was the haunting music that was picked for the movie.  I read the book before I saw the movie, I wish i hadn't done that. Shelly Duvall's Wendy was terrible, a weak person. In the book she was not at all, he was almost to bitchy.  That kind of angered me a little.  the Child actor was GREAT in it. I saw the movie when I was 13 or 14 years old, so I thought it would have scared me, but it didn't. I bagged my mother to take me with an old School friend, They were terrified, I wasn't. Sorry I not buying that one.

Tom
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: TomS on May 18, 2006, 10:34:01 AM
The Shining--mixed reaction from me, too.  I mark The Shining as the beginning of Jack Nicholson's self-caricature phase of his career, and away from more meaningful roles like Five Easy Pieces, Chinatown, Last Detail... until fairly recently.

One of the musical themes: didn't it also appear somewhere in A Clockwork Orange--perhaps during Alex's "treatment"?
(Another appeal to the experts... :))

Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: dback on May 18, 2006, 10:54:54 AM
Sorry guys but 'The Shining' was not that good. Good very scary performance by Jack N. but I was not scared at all. Visually stunning but not scary.
'Ressurection' on the other hand was over-looked. It was very powerful movie and statement.

Tom

LOL, I had a Film Directors class in college that was half Kubrick and half Eric Rohmer (and all dback banging his head against a wall), and our instructor had pontificated at length in various classes about the importance of the screenplay and how undervalued writers were in Hollywood.  Then he's rhapsodizing on and on about the "The Shining," and several students who'd read the book--plus others who just thought the script was repetitive, incomprehensible, and absurd--challenged him.  He got very patronizing saying "You guys don't understand" and extolling Kubrick as a genius...and then the class turned on him.  :)  It was LIKE the infamous elevator scene.  What fun.  Only laughs I got out of that entire class.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: jayiijay on May 21, 2006, 10:48:48 PM
INTRUDER IN THE DUST, 1949, d. Clarence Brown

Based on William Faulkner's novel, it tells the story of an already unpopular black man who is discovered holding a fired gun over a dead white man in 1930s Mississippi.  Despite pleas of innocence, the top local lawyer refuses to defend him until a young boy overhears plans for a lynching. 

Although no movie can ever capture the beauty of Faulkner's language (even from one of his second tier novels), it is most faithful to Faulkner's vision of Oxford, Mississippi, and a compelling social commentary. 
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: sunspot on May 21, 2006, 11:55:23 PM
I actually agree with you re: "The Shining", I was bored thru most of it too, but it is very highly regarded in the film buff world, certainly more than 1980 Best Picture nominees Coal Miner's Daughter and Tess (loved the latter).

I love The Shining, but I think Coal Miner's Daughter was a brilliant piece of work.  Unlike Reese Witherspoon, who I didn't buy as June Carter Cash for a single millisecond (how she won an Academy Award is beyond me), Sissy Spacek became Loretta Lynn in Coal Miner's Daughter, as did Beverly D'Angelo playing Patsy Cline.  Like Brokeback Mountain, this was a rare example of Hollywood doing a film about rural folks that didn't cast them all as cartoonish 6-fingered freaks compared to city folk.

Not that there aren't plenty of 6-fingered freaks out in the sticks . . .
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: annabel on May 28, 2006, 05:46:46 AM
I saw a movie many years ago, about a mother who lived in Brooklyn with her son, I'm not sure if she was divorced, but I think so (the actor playing her husband was an actor who died a few years ago, I think his name was David Dukes)  Anyway, the boy is kidnapped and they spend the whole movie tring to find him.  They finally find him in Bridgeport, CN  and at the end she's walking home with a bag of groceries and all the cruisers pull up and her son gets out and she drops all the bags and runs to him.  OK, I'm getting teary-eyed thinking of it.  Does anyone remember the name of the movie?  I'd like to rent it.  I think the actress was Kate Mulligan or something.  Anyway, that scene just made me sob!
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Desecra on May 28, 2006, 07:44:58 AM
You might be thinking of 'Without a Trace', Annabel.  It's Kate Nelligan rather than Mulliagan, but if your mind works anything like mine then that's probably the one! 

I find films about disappearing children difficult to watch - maybe all parents do.  I think we've all had those sickening moments when we think we may have lost a child, and at that moment would gladly sell our souls to see them again.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: BigChicken on June 01, 2006, 11:49:03 AM
Wow, thanks for this thread.  I've never heard of many of the movies mentioned, and now I'm going to go out and try to rent some of them on DVD, and see what they're like.

The movie, "Mean Creek", is one of the best films I have ever seen, and yet most people have never even heard of it.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Lola on June 01, 2006, 12:34:12 PM
http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040826/REVIEWS/408260302/1023

That movie sounds very interesting, I am going to check for it next time I am in the video store.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: BigChicken on June 03, 2006, 09:27:08 AM
http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040826/REVIEWS/408260302/1023

That movie sounds very interesting, I am going to check for it next time I am in the video store.  Thanks!

That's great.  Let everyone know what you think of it after you've had a chance to watch it.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Lola on June 03, 2006, 09:53:28 AM
http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040826/REVIEWS/408260302/1023

That movie sounds very interesting, I am going to check for it next time I am in the video store.  Thanks!

That's great.  Let everyone know what you think of it after you've had a chance to watch it.

I almost hate to tell you this.  I went yesterday, I was going to get this, the Squid and the Whale and the Good Girl.   The video store clerk who I know quiet well advised me against the movie, she said she knows several people who have saw it and found it "extremely disturbing"

So I chickened out.  PM me and fill me in a bit (if you don't mind) but based on what she told me, I don't think I could watch it.   :'(
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: BigChicken on June 03, 2006, 12:35:22 PM
http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040826/REVIEWS/408260302/1023

That movie sounds very interesting, I am going to check for it next time I am in the video store.  Thanks!

That's great.  Let everyone know what you think of it after you've had a chance to watch it.

I almost hate to tell you this.  I went yesterday, I was going to get this, the Squid and the Whale and the Good Girl.   The video store clerk who I know quiet well advised me against the movie, she said she knows several people who have saw it and found it "extremely disturbing"

So I chickened out.  PM me and fill me in a bit (if you don't mind) but based on what she told me, I don't think I could watch it.   :'(

It probably is not a movie that everyone could enjoy watching.

I have to agree with the clerk at the video store-- it is a darkly disturbing movie and does not have a happy ending at all.  I should have probably put that disclaimer in my first post about this movie.  But, I personally enjoyed watching a movie that for once was very unpredictable and interesting without relying on a big budget or any special effects.  It's like a very tightly written short story that has been brought to life on the big screen.  A great deal of effort was put into the writing and the acting, because they had nothing else to prop up the movie.  The quality of the story has to carry it all the way to the end of the movie, and as in real life, not every story has a happy ending.  I don't want to give away the ending of the story for those who may wish to see it themselves. 

I lived in Oregon when I was going to college, I recognize some of the beautiful scenery in this movie.  They used Oregon's and Washington's beautiful forests as a backdrop for this movie, and if you watch the movie with the director's and actors' commentaries, they explain in detail why they chose certain scenery to evoke certain emotions in the viewer, and I have to say that they were very effective. 
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: doodler on June 03, 2006, 01:33:37 PM
"Quigley Down Under" (1990, Tom Selleck, Laura San Giacomo, Alan Rickman. 4-1/2 stars on Amazon) My favorite Tom Selleck movie. I get caught up it right from the git-go every time and it never fails to move me.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: ottoblom on June 03, 2006, 07:38:29 PM
THE OTHERS, with Nicole Kidman--the first time I thought she was great.
REMEMBER THE NIGHT-1940, Barbara Stanwyck--I love this movie.
UNBREAKABLE--No Shamalayan's overlooked I know, but this is great plotting.
A PATCH OF BLUE--mostly forgotten, but what a cast.

Also not overlooked but very old and who bothers?
TROUBLE IN PARADISE-1933 Lubitsh
RED DUST-1933, Harlow and Gable
and silents:
THE CROWD
THE KID BROTHER, Harold Loyd
THE GENERAL, Keaton

Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: dback on June 04, 2006, 11:25:41 PM
Quote

It probably is not a movie that everyone could enjoy watching.

I have to agree with the clerk at the video store-- it is a darkly disturbing movie and does not have a happy ending at all.  I should have probably put that disclaimer in my first post about this movie.  But, I personally enjoyed watching a movie that for once was very unpredictable and interesting without relying on a big budget or any special effects.  It's like a very tightly written short story that has been brought to life on the big screen.  A great deal of effort was put into the writing and the acting, because they had nothing else to prop up the movie.  The quality of the story has to carry it all the way to the end of the movie, and as in real life, not every story has a happy ending.  I don't want to give away the ending of the story for those who may wish to see it themselves. 

I lived in Oregon when I was going to college, I recognize some of the beautiful scenery in this movie.  They used Oregon's and Washington's beautiful forests as a backdrop for this movie, and if you watch the movie with the director's and actors' commentaries, they explain in detail why they chose certain scenery to evoke certain emotions in the viewer, and I have to say that they were very effective. 

Quote

It's dark, but it's realistic--it asks very hard questions of an audience, and really makes you think.  It's very reminiscent of "River's Edge," from the 80's, which had a similar scenario in some ways. 

(Trying to avoid SPOILERS here...)

The hard part about "Mean Creek" is the feeling of dread as the key event gets closer and closer, and then watching it happen--unlike lots of cheesy horror/action films with ridiculously high body counts that are meaningless, here you really squirm.  I saw it in a packed house in San Jose on a Saturday afternoon after it'd gotten a rave review the day before in the Mercury News, and though the audience was respectful and not chatty/rowdy, you could still sense their tension and discomfort. 

I'd rank it with "Mysterious Skin"--worth the time and effort, but know what you're getting into.  If you're emotionally fragile or delicate, avoid it.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Lola on June 05, 2006, 06:25:52 AM
Yea it definitley sounds like it is not a movie for me, that is for sure!
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Poohbunn on June 05, 2006, 02:24:02 PM
One movie I think was overlooked but should be widely shown is "Not in This Town."

http://www.allmovie.com/cg/avg.dll?p=avg&sql=1:154930

It's based on the true story about white supremacists in Billings, Montana in 1993, and is a powerful example of how evil bigotry is.  It also shows the importance of those not in persecuted groups banding together with those who are as a way to fight the evil.   It is mainly about anti Semitism, but the principle applies to Gays, Blacks, Hispanics, anyone who faces prejudice.

Pooh
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Boppity on June 06, 2006, 04:20:33 PM
"The Sailor Who Fell From Grace With The Sea"
1976
Directed by:  Lewis John Carlino

If you think those kids from "Lord of the Flies" were violent, wait until you see the kids in this movie! 

This movie is disturbing but it sticks in my mind because of the bone-chilling ending.  I'm not going to give out any spoilers but the fade-to-black climax hits you in the stomach with a heavy gnawing feeling.  You just keep saying to yourself, "I just can't believe those brats are going to do that to Kris Kristofferson." 

Is this a film based on a story by Yukio Mishima?  It's probably the most disturbing book I have read when I was younger, and I don't think I have read another one that disturbed me so since.  Somehow it made me think I could be the boy doing it.  Definitely not a book for a teenager with overactive imagination.  I don't think I want to read that again, but it would be interesting to see what the film is like.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: CANSTANDIT on June 06, 2006, 07:06:53 PM
One of my favorites-and it's lead character has some of Ennis emotional repression issues-is Bulletproof Heart (1995), with Anthony Lapaglia (another aussie) and Mimi Rogers.
I don't think this went very far, but both leads are Oscar caliber.
He is a hit man who falls in love with the contracted victim.

Well worth your time, and it turns into a film noir tragedy of monumental proportions. It haunted me for days after I saw it.
Anyone else see it out there?
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Gatsby on June 11, 2006, 07:13:26 PM
"A Very Long Engagement"
Dir: Jean-Pierre Jeunet
It's part romance, part mystery, part war movie, part absurdist comedy and it balances them all very well. Jeunet and the star of "A Very Long Engagement," Audrey Tautou, also worked together on "Amelie."

French-language film, so unsure how it fared in non-French theaters with non-French audiences.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: annabel on June 14, 2006, 04:32:23 AM
"The Sailor Who Fell from Grace from the Sea"  was one of the most disturbing movies I have ever seen.  I saw it in high school and I think I had nightmares.


Another movie I loved from back in the era was "Buster and Billie"  Another sad love story.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: nova on June 14, 2006, 08:56:18 AM

Great thread!  I've added lots of films to my "to see" list that I never heard of.

Also found a few I haven't seen in years that I plan to re-watch soon:

Apartment Zero
Hope and Glory (which I know I have somewhere on VHS - Great film)
Searching for Bobby Fisher
Harold and Maude

I guess I need to watch "Eternal Sunshine" again.  I must have been tired or in a strange mood when I saw it, because I just didn't get it.  I remember thinking that I'd never watch it again.  You know......one of those films you make yourself watch and then afterwards feel like you just wasted two hours of your life.  I hear alot of good things about it, but for some reason it didn't click the first time I saw it.

I saw "The Station Agent" twice and loved it, but never realized Michelle was in it.  I was probably too busy watching Bobby Cannavale.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: CANSTANDIT on June 16, 2006, 05:44:09 PM
I just remember two that really reached out and took hold of my heart:

Beaches
(just kidding!)

Seriously,

The Trip to Bountiful with Geraldine Page, John Heard, Rebecca DeMornay and another female actor whose name escapes me; I know she is Mary Stuart Masterson's real mother, Glynn somebody, I think
.
A mother living with her son and his greedy wife in Depression times longs to go back to her childhood home in Bountiful, so makes the trip against the kids' wishes. This film was Oscar-nominated, for those a few years too young to recall it. (early 90's or late 80;s)

Just haunting; the dialogue and acting will break your heart, not to mention the music.
and

Magic, with Sir Anthony Hopkins and Ann-Margaret, about a  ventirloquist bordering on psychopathy,taken over by his dummy, who falls in love, and appears to be on his way to being "saved".(early 70's, I think..)
Nothing like a young, goreous Tony acting his heart out.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: jen_i on June 18, 2006, 08:57:54 AM
I saw "The Unbearable Lightness of Being" when it was out around in '88.
I remember being completely mesmersized.  I felt gutted at the end.  It was one of those movies I couldn't get out of my head for a long time. 

I see it's now available on DVD (wasn't last time I checked) so I am going to order it now.

Story is set in Prague in the 60's.
Characters are young bohemians.  The city is gorgeous in the film , Prague being one of the most beautiful in Europe I have heard. 

From Amazon--
Plot Synopsis: Tomas is a doctor and a lady-killer in 1960s Czechoslovakia, an apolitical man who is struck with love for the bookish country girl Tereza; his more sophisticated sometime lover Sabina eventually accepts their relationship and the two women form an electric friendship. The three are caught up in the events of the Prague Spring (1968), until the Soviet tanks crush the non-violent rebels; their illusions are shattered and their lives change forever.

Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: annabel on June 21, 2006, 07:08:18 PM
CANTSTANDIT:  A while back I mentioned "The Trip to Bountiful"  It takes place in Texas.  The area around there kind of reminds me of what Childress must be like.   Wonderful, bittersweet movie.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: paintedshoes on June 21, 2006, 09:29:11 PM
One film that I believe deserved much more recognition is "The Deep End" starring Tilda Swinton as a wife and mother who is being blackmailed because of her son's involvement in a death.  She must come up with the cash, somehow, while continuing to do the ordinary things like taking her turn driving the kids to school.  Swinton is fantastic as a woman driven to the edge of despair as she tries desperately to protect her son.  Swinton was nominated for several acting awards, winning one, but the film only did about $8 million at the box office.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: brokebacktom on June 22, 2006, 05:30:32 AM
Paintedshoes-

I could not have agreed more with your input on 'The Deep End'.  It was great. Only $8 Million is bad for a great film.  I also thought shge should have recieved an oscar nomination for her acting it was awsome. But like many, it was overlooked.
Tom
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Desecra on June 22, 2006, 07:05:57 AM
That's interesting - someone mentioned 'In the Bedroom' earlier, I think, and I remember it as having a similar feel to 'The Deep End'.  I like them both, although I preferred In The Bedroom.  I do think they were both realistic portrayals of parental love.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Lola on June 22, 2006, 09:11:25 AM
That's interesting - someone mentioned 'In the Bedroom' earlier, I think, and I remember it as having a similar feel to 'The Deep End'.  I like them both, although I preferred In The Bedroom.  I do think they were both realistic portrayals of parental love.

I haven't seen The Deep End, and I must have missed someone mentioning In the Bedroom.  I actually liked that movie, despite the subject matter.  The performances were really good, it made me think, alot. I should watch it again, I only saw it once.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0247425/
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: paintedshoes on June 22, 2006, 09:37:15 AM
Though I loved the performances in "In the Bedroom", especially Tom Wilkinson, and Marisa Tomei, I,  for some reason, really hated the story ending.  It just rubbed me the way- wrong way.  It sort of soured me on the whole story.  But, I'd bet I'm in the minority on this one.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Lola on June 22, 2006, 09:52:45 AM
Though I loved the performances in "In the Bedroom", especially Tom Wilkinson, and Marisa Tomei, I,  for some reason, really hated the story ending.  It just rubbed me the way- wrong way.  It sort of soured me on the whole story.  But, I'd bet I'm in the minority on this one.

This is why I wanted to see it again. I don't want to give the ending away, but that is not what I would have done.  But he did and that is what he has to live with.  My husband didn't have a problem with it.  I only told him about it, he was actually away on a business trip when I saw it.  I am definitley going to rent it again, so we can see it together.  Movies with such good acting, are few and far between these days. I actually thought Sissy did a really good job as well.

Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: paintedshoes on June 22, 2006, 10:05:16 AM
Lola, I had no quarrel with any of the performances.  Spacek is always good, no matter the role.  Let us know what you think after seeing it again.  I'm curious as to whether your feelings will change...
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Lola on June 22, 2006, 10:15:41 AM
Lola, I had no quarrel with any of the performances.  Spacek is always good, no matter the role.  Let us know what you think after seeing it again.  I'm curious as to whether your feelings will change...

I didn't like the end, so I don't think that will change, but I understood it.  The end will often ruin a movie for me.  I really liked Million Dollar Baby, except for the end.  Again I understood the ending, why it had to happen, but didn't mean I had to like it.  :'(

I look at most movies through the eyes of a Parent and as a Parent I would never say what I may or may not be  capable of!  >:( :o :)
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Desecra on June 22, 2006, 10:26:48 AM
I liked the ending [as much as I can remember - it's a while since I've seen it] because it was morally ambiguous I suppose.  It wasn't neat and easy with a clear message.  There was a lot to think about - including the absolute impossibility of recovering from something like that, whatever you do.  The ending made me uncomfortable, but I like to be challenged sometimes :).
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Carissa on June 22, 2006, 05:50:35 PM
One film that I believe deserved much more recognition is "The Deep End" starring Tilda Swinton as a wife and mother who is being blackmailed because of her son's involvement in a death.  She must come up with the cash, somehow, while continuing to do the ordinary things like taking her turn driving the kids to school.  Swinton is fantastic as a woman driven to the edge of despair as she tries desperately to protect her son.  Swinton was nominated for several acting awards, winning one, but the film only did about $8 million at the box office.
That was a great film.  :)

Though I loved the performances in "In the Bedroom", especially Tom Wilkinson, and Marisa Tomei, I,  for some reason, really hated the story ending.  It just rubbed me the way- wrong way.  It sort of soured me on the whole story.  But, I'd bet I'm in the minority on this one.
No, you're not. :)  I much preferred "The Deep End" to "In the Bedroom".
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: dback on June 27, 2006, 04:46:00 PM
I love the scene with Swinton watching her son on video, and the moment where he REALLY starts to look like he's enjoying himself.  If I'm not crazy, wasn't Josh Lucas the slimeball in that?  (I don't have the IMDB open.)

Spacek is especially wonderful in "A Home At The End of the World."  When is the movie where she plays a transgendered person coming out?  (Is it "Southern Comfort?")  I also really like it when she does comedy, like in "Blast From the Past."
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: paintedshoes on June 27, 2006, 05:42:51 PM
Yes, dback, Josh Lucas was the slimeball in "The Deep End".  Spacek and the rest of the cast was loads of fun in "Blast from the Past", though I don't think the film could ever be called great, just thoroughly entertaining.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: johnk on June 30, 2006, 11:21:40 PM
Though I loved the performances in "In the Bedroom", especially Tom Wilkinson, and Marisa Tomei, I,  for some reason, really hated the story ending.  It just rubbed me the way- wrong way.  It sort of soured me on the whole story.  But, I'd bet I'm in the minority on this one.

Oh gosh, totally understand, it was disturbing, but I thought this was such a good film!.  I'm sure you've heard the rumours about Tomei's Oscar.  IMHO this film really deserved a little more attention but it came out too early in the year so...
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: paintedshoes on July 01, 2006, 12:13:07 AM
Johnk, I think those rumors about Tomei's Oscar are sadly misplaced.  She did an excellent job in a comedic role, the type of role that is often overlooked.  This does not, in any way, diminish the other nominees that year, and maybe she did not deserve the Oscar, but to say that she got it cause Jack Palance read her name by mistake is just wrong.  Her work in "In The Bedroom" proves her excellence as an actor, IMHO.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: dback on July 05, 2006, 04:07:02 PM
Tomei has given acclaimed performances in the theater in things like Tony Kushner's "Slavs!" as well.  A lot of the bitterness towards her stems from the diva attitude she took on immediately after winning the Oscar (when she was doing things like "Only You" and "Untamed Heart")--she's freely admitted since then that she had let the win go to her head, and apologized for her behavior.  The nomination for "In the Bedroom" was largely seen as Hollywood accepting her apology/humility, and recognizing (again) her genuine talent.  (Shades of Vanessa Redgrave's nominations for "The Bostonians" and "Howard's End" years after she alienated a lot of people via her acceptance speech for "Julia" by referencing her documentary "The Palestinians" and "Zionist hoodlums.")

And you have to admit, some of her lines from "My Cousin Vinny" are now comedy classics:

"The two a yewts--what's a yewt?"

"Your honor, I would like to classify Miss Vito as a hostile witness" "You think I'm hostile now?  Wait till tonight."

Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: johnk on July 06, 2006, 10:16:57 PM
Johnk, I think those rumors about Tomei's Oscar are sadly misplaced.  She did an excellent job in a comedic role, the type of role that is often overlooked.  This does not, in any way, diminish the other nominees that year, and maybe she did not deserve the Oscar, but to say that she got it cause Jack Palance read her name by mistake is just wrong.  Her work in "In The Bedroom" proves her excellence as an actor, IMHO.


I agree - AMPAS rarely acknowledges comedic performances.  In retrospect they were correct (I hate to say they were correct about anything!).  Tomei's win over Joan Plowright and Vanessa Redgrave was as startling as Judy Holiday's over Bette Davis and Gloria Swanson in 1950. 
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: graylockV on July 07, 2006, 12:48:25 PM
It might not rank as a "great film," but seeing Stanley Tucci on TV promoting The Devil Wears Prada reminded me of how much I enjoyed the movie he made about ten years ago with Tony Shaloub, i.e., Big Night.

To me, it was just one of those small gems.  A movie with a lot of thoughtfulness about family ties, and about what is really important in life, but which didn't get too preachy.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Casper on July 07, 2006, 03:01:01 PM
"Swimming With Sharks" starring Kevin Spacey and Frank Whaley

I like this film because who hasn't delighted in revengeful thoughts of tying up the boss you just can't stand to a chair and having him beg for mercy? This movie is a dark comedy and has an ending that justifies the underdog.

Incindentally, the haunting piano score will linger in your mind for days.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: jayiijay on July 07, 2006, 11:54:15 PM

I agree - AMPAS rarely acknowledges comedic performances.  In retrospect they were correct (I hate to say they were correct about anything!).  Tomei's win over Joan Plowright and Vanessa Redgrave was as startling as Judy Holiday's over Bette Davis and Gloria Swanson in 1950. 



Hi JohnK.  I disagree.  Tomei was fun in Vinny, but the favorite and deserving winner should have been Judy Davis for her great brittle comic performance in Woody Allen's Husbands and Wives.  Miranda Richardson in Damage was considered the next closest competitor, partly because she was in other films that year as well, including Enchanted April with the sentimental possibility Joan Plowright.  Anyhow, Tomei was good but the role was not that difficult and the performance not that original.  Judy Davis' character in Husbands was then, and remain, unique.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: paintedshoes on July 08, 2006, 07:06:41 AM
It might not rank as a "great film," but seeing Stanley Tucci on TV promoting The Devil Wears Prada reminded me of how much I enjoyed the movie he made about ten years ago with Tony Shaloub, i.e., Big Night.

To me, it was just one of those small gems.  A movie with a lot of thoughtfulness about family ties, and about what is really important in life, but which didn't get too preachy.
Greylocke, thank you for reminding me of one of the sweetest movie moments I've had.  Thinking of the ending is bringing happy tears to my eyes as I write this.  The entire cast, including Isabella Rossellini and Ian Holm, was pitch perfect.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: jayiijay on July 21, 2006, 11:40:52 PM
I don't remember whether I previously mentioned this, but Leo McCarey's 1937 "Make Way for Tomorrow" is the single biggest tear-jerker I've ever seen, including Brokeback Mountain.  A crushing story of old age and poverty, the ending will rend your hearts. 
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: graylockV on July 22, 2006, 09:26:45 AM
I don't remember whether I previously mentioned this, but Leo McCarey's 1937 "Make Way for Tomorrow" is the single biggest tear-jerker I've ever seen, including Brokeback Mountain.  A crushing story of old age and poverty, the ending will rend your hearts. 

I remember seeing that movie years ago, on TV.  I was just a kid and I was really affected deeply by it.  Pretty good stuff for 1937.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: jayiijay on July 22, 2006, 09:53:22 PM
I don't remember whether I previously mentioned this, but Leo McCarey's 1937 "Make Way for Tomorrow" is the single biggest tear-jerker I've ever seen, including Brokeback Mountain.  A crushing story of old age and poverty, the ending will rend your hearts. 

I remember seeing that movie years ago, on TV.  I was just a kid and I was really affected deeply by it.  Pretty good stuff for 1937.


Pretty good stuff for any year!  Leo McCarey won the Best Director Oscar that year, but for The Awful Truth (a wonderful classic).  When he won, he said "thanks, but you gave it to me for the wrong film".  I agree.

By the way, just saw WATER by Deepa Mehta, posting in the whatyousawthisweekend thread later/tomorrow.  It was magnificent, see it!!
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: sinne on July 23, 2006, 09:54:54 AM
I don't remember whether I previously mentioned this, but Leo McCarey's 1937 "Make Way for Tomorrow" is the single biggest tear-jerker I've ever seen, including Brokeback Mountain.  A crushing story of old age and poverty, the ending will rend your hearts. 

I remember seeing that movie years ago, on TV.  I was just a kid and I was really affected deeply by it.  Pretty good stuff for 1937.

Pretty good stuff for any year!  Leo McCarey won the Best Director Oscar that year, but for The Awful Truth (a wonderful classic).  When he won, he said "thanks, but you gave it to me for the wrong film".  I agree.

Thanks!  I've never heard of it.  Let me know if you see that it's scheduled for the Turner Classics channel!  I'd love to see it.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Casper on July 27, 2006, 07:03:28 AM
I think the black & white cinematography in "Night of the Hunter" is excellent.  Robert Mitchum was downright scary in the role of the demented preacher man. 
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: paintedshoes on July 27, 2006, 09:47:24 AM
Casper, "The Night of the Hunter"  is a terrific film...the only one Charles Laughton ever directed.  What a shame.  This film shows what talent he had in that area.  Who knows what else he could have achieved. 
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: quijote on July 27, 2006, 03:50:17 PM
Night of the Hunter is the only movie I love that makes me feel bad after watching it.  Robert Mitchum was a god - pothead or no.

A movie few watched because of the controversy and because it was indie is Secretary.  It is one of my favorite movies ever because it is a straightahead, no apologies romance movie wrapped in kink.  Maggie Gyllenhaal and James Spader, especially, were exquisite and brave.  The best edge for me is the kind that brings you right back to the tender center, but honestly.  This movie had it in spades.  I love the "I dare you to tell me I shouldn't be doing this" vibe confronting the audience through MG's character.  In my opinion, it was one of those rare refusals to sell out.

And, I probably shouldn't say this but the original David Cronenberg Crash was great.  I have never felt so repelled, scared, uncomfortable, creeped out and mesmerized by a movie that wasn't laughing at me.  Cronenberg is what an artist should be, brave and unapologetic.  He explores humanity in its dark places, and that is so worthwhile doing . . . while being exceedingly rare.  IMO, he doesn't get enough credit.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: BRAD1963 on July 27, 2006, 04:07:03 PM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/BADBRAD/fearless.jpg)

FEARLESS: (1993)

An underrrated gem directed by Peter Weir. 
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: paintedshoes on July 27, 2006, 04:15:27 PM
Oh, Brad...Rosie Perez was rightly nominated for an Oscar for her fabulous performance as the mother.  And Jeff Bridges was spectacular, as always.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: BRAD1963 on July 27, 2006, 04:57:53 PM
Oh, Brad...Rosie Perez was rightly nominated for an Oscar for her fabulous performance as the mother.  And Jeff Bridges was spectacular, as always.


For some reason Fearless has been on my mind lately.  It is one of those films like Brokeback that really stays with you long after seeing it.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: brokebacktom on July 27, 2006, 05:34:56 PM
Jay--

More info on the Osars PLEASE.  I love them.  Like I said before you should right all this down for a book.  Also, maybe you should have your own Thread on this site it would be great. So keep it up. I'm also sorry the Oscars destroyed your hobby.  I hope it was not to painful.

Tom

PS I will not look at the Oscars the same way again too.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Casper on July 27, 2006, 07:13:57 PM
the original David Cronenberg Crash was great.  I have never felt so repelled, scared, uncomfortable, creeped out and mesmerized by a movie that wasn't laughing at me.  Cronenberg is what an artist should be, brave and unapologetic.  He explores humanity in its dark places, and that is so worthwhile doing . . . while being exceedingly rare.  IMO, he doesn't get enough credit.


Yes, Cronenberg's "Crash" is an original.  I own the NC-17 version on DVD.  You are so right about him being brave and unapologetic. 
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: jayiijay on July 27, 2006, 11:03:40 PM
Jay--

PS I will not look at the Oscars the same way again too.

Tom, you made my day.  Thanks. 

Since Casper & others raised Charles Laughton's masterpiece Night of the Hunter, I'll say just a little bit on 1955 since its late.   Night of the Hunter was not nominated for a single Oscar, not even amazing Mitchum and Lillian Gish, both of whom should have won.  However, now the film is considered by critics to be in the top 100 films in world cinema, and challenges Psycho for the highest ranked horror film.  It is a film that stays with you, there is nothing like it.  The year's other top films were Rebel Without a Cause (in the AFI top 100), East of Eden (Globe Best Drama) and Bad Day at Black Rock, also on world cinema lists.  None of the top 4 were nominated for the Best Picture Oscar.  The winner was Marty, which is a nice film, but was better as TV movie with Rod Steiger.  Its screenplay was terrific but the execution lackluster, it still feels like a made for tv film.  What really gets me is that bigot Ernest Borgnine won actor over Mitchum, both James Dean performances (his nomination was for East of Eden, not Rebel), Tracy in Bad Day at Black Rock, Cagney in Love Me or Leave Me, and other non-nominees Henry Fonda in Mr. Roberts, Glenn Ford (Blackboard Jungle; Ford was never nominated); etc.  The 5th slot should have gone to nominee Mr. Roberts, or even Blackboard Jungle or Lady and the Tramp or All That Heaven Allows or Kiss Me Deadly.  How the Academy filled the best picture slate with the mediocre Rose Tattoo, Picnic and Love is a Many Splendored Thing, considering what was eligible, is beyond me.  The Academy also got a jump on its disastrous foreign film history, giving it to the forgettable Samurai, Legend of Musashi (no, that is not Kurosawa's masterpiece Seven Samurai, also an eligible loser in '54) over the likes of masterpieces Pather Panchali (top 50 in world cinema), Ordet, Smiles of a Summer Night, and Les Diaboliques, the latter with an immortal unrecognized performance by Simone Signoret.  The Oscars suck now, and they sucked then.  We should not care.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Casper on July 28, 2006, 11:23:00 AM
What really gets me is that bigot Ernest Borgnine won actor

But the rats sure got him good in "Willard."  ;D
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: jayiijay on July 28, 2006, 02:03:50 PM
What really gets me is that bigot Ernest Borgnine won actor

But the rats sure got him good in "Willard."  ;D


LOL.  Never saw Willard, it just shot to the top of my list.  thx
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Casper on July 28, 2006, 02:23:27 PM
The version of "Willard" that has Ernest Borgnine in it is the original made in 1971.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: quijote on July 29, 2006, 08:31:54 PM
Brad1963,

I tell everyone I know who I think has any feeling whatsoever for movies to see Fearless.  It was unforgettable to me.

The idea that once you have accepted death fully, as happened during the crashing of the plane, that you would have difficulty living in the world after that was a brilliant one.  Most people I know saw the movie and went, "huh?"  It took my breath away.  Lovely.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: daannzzz on July 29, 2006, 09:17:23 PM
"Fearless" is a movie that I forget about until someone mentions it. It is a stunning (stunning being used literaly here not just a mildy, desciptive term) film and not easy to watch. I am tearing up thinking of parts of it now. I suppose it is one of those movies I, subconciously, don't want to remember.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: BRAD1963 on July 31, 2006, 02:44:35 PM
Not many people went to see "Fearless". But when I mention it to those who did I get the same great reponse.  It touches everybody who sees it.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: dback on August 02, 2006, 11:58:10 AM
I want to put in another plug for "Dominick and Eugene."  If you've never seen it, you're in for quite the emotional experience (have Kleenex handy).  A career-high for Tom Hulce and Ray Liotta, with charming support from Jamie Lee Curtis.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Lola on August 02, 2006, 12:01:31 PM
I want to put in another plug for "Dominick and Eugene."  If you've never seen it, you're in for quite the emotional experience (have Kleenex handy).  A career-high for Tom Hulce and Ray Liotta, with charming support from Jamie Lee Curtis.

I have never seen that.  I will be on the look out for it, I am a big Ray Liotta fan.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: paintedshoes on August 02, 2006, 02:56:47 PM
Lola, if you like Ray Liotta (whom I have watched since he was Joey Perini on "Another World" about 30 years ago), then you will LOVE D&E.  A sweet, lovely story of brothers.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Lola on August 02, 2006, 04:01:12 PM
Just love him, Goodfellas, Corrina Corrina, I have liked him in everything!  He was on ER (the TV show) a few seasons ago and was amazing.

I now have this one on my list, don't know how I missed it.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: sinne on August 05, 2006, 10:01:19 PM
I'm watching "Hearburn" with Meryl Streep and Jack Nicholson.  It's one of those films that gets better each time I watch it.  I saw it when it first came out and it didn't do a thing for me, but I've caught all or parts of it on TV over and over and just love it now.  It's just wonderful.  Some of the scenes - like in the hospital when the first baby is born - are absolute perfection.  If you haven't seen it - watch it!
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: dback on August 07, 2006, 01:39:16 PM
That was one of the first movies where I saw that Meryl Streep could really do comedy--during some of her fantasy sequences involving the TV talking to her, she's brilliantly funny.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Lola on August 11, 2006, 07:39:36 PM
Well I am going to add WATER in here.  I can't imagine how I missed this, haven't heard anyone I know speak of it.  And can't imagine how it got passed over at the Oscars.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: jayiijay on August 13, 2006, 06:02:50 PM
Well I am going to add WATER in here.  I can't imagine how I missed this, haven't heard anyone I know speak of it.  And can't imagine how it got passed over at the Oscars.


Gee, that's odd, moderator Mary and I discussed Water on July 23rd, and you recently responded to her. 


Water is a great film, also recommend Deepa Mehta's other films in her trilogy Fire and Earth.  It was eligible for last year's Oscars, the Academy deprived it of a nomination, even though it was far superior to mediocre winner Tsotsi.  It won 3 Canadian Genies including Best Actress Seema Biswas, while Lisa Ray won Best Canadian Actress at the Vancouver Film Critics, along with Best Canadian Director Deepa Mehta.  It deserved Best Picture at both.  Considering how well it has done in its primary country of release and is just being discovered in the States (held over in NYC), I don't think it really belongs in the overlooked category quite yet, but it is deserving of positive word-of-mouth about it everywhere.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: afhickman on August 24, 2006, 09:04:55 PM
There are some great films here!  I am especially pleased to see "Ossessione" and "Apartment Zero" mentioned.  My candidate for a great unknown film is "The Leather Boys," with Rita Tushingham, Colin Campbell, and the great Dudley Sutton.  It's a black-and-white masterpiece of the kitchen sink school of British filmmaking, although it was directed (in 1963) by a Canadian director, Sidney J. Furie, who is perhaps better known for his action films, like "Iron Eagle" and a host of sequels.  It's a flawless evocation of that period in England just before the Beatles hit it big and London began to swing.  Campbell plays a working class lad who marries Tushingham; however, they are both much too immature to handle marriage, and Campbell finds he relates better to his motorcylce buddy, Sutton, whom he ends up sharing a bed with at his grandmother's after he and Tushingham separate.  The problem is, the Sutton character wants more from the friendship.  It's a classic study in sexual ambivalence, and audiences are still debating what Furie means by the ending.  It's based on the novel by Gillian Freeman, who also wrote "That Cold Day in the Park" (another neglected masterwork, directed by Robert Altman in 1969) and who worked on "Girl on a Motorcycle" (the camp classic with Marianne Faithfull).
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: sinne on August 27, 2006, 06:21:26 PM
There are some great films here!  I am especially pleased to see "Ossessione" and "Apartment Zero" mentioned.  My candidate for a great unknown film is "The Leather Boys," with Rita Tushingham, Colin Campbell, and the great Dudley Sutton.  It's a black-and-white masterpiece of the kitchen sink school of British filmmaking, although it was directed (in 1963) by a Canadian director, Sidney J. Furie, who is perhaps better known for his action films, like "Iron Eagle" and a host of sequels.  It's a flawless evocation of that period in England just before the Beatles hit it big and London began to swing.  Campbell plays a working class lad who marries Tushingham; however, they are both much too immature to handle marriage, and Campbell finds he relates better to his motorcylce buddy, Sutton, whom he ends up sharing a bed with at his grandmother's after he and Tushingham separate.  The problem is, the Sutton character wants more from the friendship.  It's a classic study in sexual ambivalence, and audiences are still debating what Furie means by the ending.  It's based on the novel by Gillian Freeman, who also wrote "That Cold Day in the Park" (another neglected masterwork, directed by Robert Altman in 1969) and who worked on "Girl on a Motorcycle" (the camp classic with Marianne Faithfull).

Thanks!  "The Leather Boys" sounds really good. Another film I love, that depicts the same era, but was shot later, and which I've recommended on other threads, is "Prick Up Your Ears" about playwright Joe Orton, played by Gary Oldman.  One of my favourite films.  Everyone in it is really good - especially Gary Oldman and Vanessa Redgrave.  I saw "That Cold Day in the Park" years ago and enjoyed it. Speaking of Sandy Dennis, I saw a good film years ago with her in it called, "The Fox" based on the D.H. Lawrence novella.   
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Casper on August 27, 2006, 10:27:45 PM
Sinne, I'm glad you mentioned "The Fox."  I saw that movie many years ago and you brought back memories to me.  It's a shame Sandy Dennis left this world way too young.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: paintedshoes on August 28, 2006, 02:00:05 PM
Sinne, I agree with your choice of "Prick Up Your Ears."  My favorite performance in that film was by Alfred Molina.  I think it was the first thing I had seen him in since "Raiders of the Lost Ark."  I find myself fascinated by his work...always excellent, regardless of the material.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: canmark on October 12, 2006, 03:24:17 PM
Well I am going to add WATER in here.  I can't imagine how I missed this, haven't heard anyone I know speak of it.  And can't imagine how it got passed over at the Oscars.

Are you referring to Deepa Mehta's Water? Although it came out in Canada in 2005, it was released in the U.S. in 2006 and will be Canada's official entry in the foreign language film category at the 2007 Oscars.

http://www2.foxsearchlight.com/water/
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Lola on November 05, 2006, 08:07:17 AM
Are you referring to Deepa Mehta's Water? Although it came out in Canada in 2005, it was released in the U.S. in 2006 and will be Canada's official entry in the foreign language film category at the 2007 Oscars.

http://www2.foxsearchlight.com/water/

OMG how did I miss this, thanks Mark, you just made my day!  :-*  Jay had said "It was eligible for last year's Oscars, the Academy deprived it of a nomination"  I am so glad to hear that is not true.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: afhickman on November 10, 2006, 07:46:00 PM
You'll probably have to buy the DVD to see it, but I want to recommend the Swedish film "Evil," which features a breakout performance by a young actor named Andreas Wilson.  It's pretty familiar stuff--an abused young man leaves home to spend a year at a boarding school and must deal with a nest of bullies--but it's refreshingly uncliched and it all leads to a unexpectedly satisfying conclusion.  No real gay content, but you can always read between the lines.  There are a few moments of uncomfortable violence (the DVD calls it "Fight Club in a boarding school"), but American audiences shouldn't be bothered.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Desecra on November 18, 2006, 01:29:03 PM
I'm not sure if I'd already mentioned 'Monsieur Hire', but it's now it out on DVD.  I first saw it in the cinema years ago and it made a big impression.  It was great to see it again, and it was as good as I remembered.

I watched 'Imaginary Heroes' recently.  I hadn't heard anything about this film, so was pleasantly surprised.  Not particularly great or memorable, but moving and engrossing.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: michaelflanagansf on December 20, 2006, 05:15:25 PM
An announcement from the moderators about the slowdown problem that we’ve been experiencing at various times, centering from about 9:00 am until about 12:00 noon GMT:

The administration has been working extremely hard to solve the slow down issue that has been plaguing the forum for some months now. It has been determined that to solve this we will have to change the host company of the forum. The new host server has now been contracted with by Dave as of today.

We are proceeding rapidly now and hope to have the conversion complete within a few weeks at the latest and hopefully much sooner. We will keep you (members) apprised. Please look for announcements in the Newsbox. Some changes will likely come up suddenly--that is the nature of computer conversions, so it is impossible to know before we test whether something will go flawlessly and take two hours, or uncover thorny issues that will take days. The testing process is being started. This will not affect the forum at this point.

So taking this into consideration, we don't want to give you timeframes that are unrealistic. As soon as we finish a stage, we'll proceed immediately to the next, and the exact changeover will likely come on very short notice to you (members). We will post this changeover time in the Newsbox as well as in the individual threads, and will give you as much lead time as we can manage. This will enable us to end the slowdown ASAP.

Thank you for your patience.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: afhickman on December 28, 2006, 11:29:56 AM
Saw two over the holiday that are worth seeking out.  The first, and best, is "Un Amour a Taire" ("A Love to Hide"), which is available on DVD from Picture This! Home Video.  Not a perfect film by any means but one that addresses an arcane subject: the reeducation by Nazis of homosexuals in Vichy France.  It's extremely brutal, but it features a superb performance by Jeremie Renier, who is getting a lot of buzz this year for his role as a teenage father who sells his own baby in "The Child."  Also noteworty, but probably a matter of taste, is a 3-part TV miniseries from Britain, "The Line of Beauty," on BBC Video, which is based on the Booker-prize winning novel by Alan Hollinghurst.  If you know anything about Thatcher's England in the 1980s, a period of excess that included the introduction of AIDS and the Falklands War, this might appeal to you.  But the characters are mostly unsympathetic, and the story lacks cohesion (as in the novel).  Nick Guest (get it ?) comes to live with the family of an up-and-coming Tory politician who lives to please "The Lady."  Nick's entree into this world is the politician's straight son Toby (this thread goes nowhere), but he stays on to look after Toby's dysfunctional sister, Cat (whose name may as well be short for catalyst as well as Catherine).  There are some grand moments, as when Nick takes Thatcher for a turn on the dance floor, but it all leaves a pretty sour taste in the mouth.  Nick goes on to live with the Feddens for four years, at the end of which he is sadder but probably no wiser.  The actors do a fine job, and there are some pretty weighty issues bandied about, but you'll have to decide for yourself whether you want to invest three hours in the lives of these, ultimately, unattractive people. 
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: michaelflanagansf on January 02, 2007, 12:16:01 AM
Also noteworty, but probably a matter of taste, is a 3-part TV miniseries from Britain, "The Line of Beauty," on BBC Video, which is based on the Booker-prize winning novel by Alan Hollinghurst.  If you know anything about Thatcher's England in the 1980s, a period of excess that included the introduction of AIDS and the Falklands War, this might appeal to you. 

Glad to see this mentioned here.  I bought a copy of this for a friend for Xmas.  She's a big fan of this sort of thing.

I agree with you about your comments about the characters being unattractive - in the end it was why I had problems with the series.  But for people who like period dramas (and yes, I think we can already consider this that) this is worth watching.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: dback on January 02, 2007, 09:41:21 PM
It was good--parts of it very good--but not great, mostly due to a certain coldness--possibly inherent in the source material.  As has been said, its hard to figure out who to sympathize with.

I've spent a big chunk of today thinking--of all things--about the Disney version of "The Hunchback of Notre Dame," which I think will one day be regarded as the studio's last traditional animation masterpiece.  ("Hercules," the year after, was fun but not in the same league.)  Tom Hulce, who is openly gay and starred in "Dominick and Eugene" and produced "A Home At The End of the World," is wonderful (and a great singer!) as "Quasi" (short for "Quasimodo").
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Nax on February 06, 2007, 07:28:44 AM
One of my favorite films is Rosanna's Grave / Rosanna's letzter Wille with Jean Reno and Mercedes Ruehl. I think it's deleted now but I think one of Reno's best.

http://akas.imdb.com/name/nm0826315/forsale

Please read the comments from viewers at the botton of the page link below - it's not just me.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00096S49E/imdb-button/

Totally overlooked little gem and well worth hunting down. Gentel humour, good storyline and good acting.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: dback on February 07, 2007, 11:12:35 PM
I think that also might be called "For Rosanna."

A comedy to recommend: an absolute hoot called "Man of the Century" that imagines--for no particular reason--a man of the 1920's plunked down amidst contemporary New York.  Flags a bit here and there and logic is not its forte, but the score is beyond terrific, the cast wonderful (among them Gary Beach, Susan Egan, Frank Gorshin and Anthony Rapp), and the climax a comedic tour-de-force.  One of those films that will put you in a wonderful mood.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: oilgun on July 03, 2007, 10:58:28 AM
Great thread, however I question soem of the titles included.  For example it's hard for me to consider The Right Stuff, Memento and Airplane(!) as being movies that the world missed, lol!

Anyway, my vote for most recent underrated film is Terry Gilliam's Tideland.  The critics ruined any chance it may have had with the public.  I saw it on TMN and was so impressed that I had to run out and buy the DVD.

http://akas.imdb.com/title/tt0410764/

For a synopsis check out rotten Tomatoes (which give it a 29% Rotten rating!):
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/tideland/about.php

If you remember being a kid then this film will ring very true, it's uncanny how well it portrays the mind of child.  Young actor Jodelle Ferland basically has to carry the film and she is astonishing! 
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Lola on July 03, 2007, 11:10:35 AM
I didn't see where Momento was mentioned, but I thought it was an excellent film.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/memento/

It had a very high rating at Rotten Tomatoes - 94%
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: oilgun on July 03, 2007, 11:49:32 AM
I didn't see where Momento was mentioned, but I thought it was an excellent film.


Memento is mentioned on page one of this thread. 

Another recent film that inexplicably didn't find an audience is The Lookout by director Scott Frank.

(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w197/oilgun/the_lookout.jpg)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0427470/
A smart taut thriller with the always excellent (and Heath lookalike) Joseph Gordon-Levitt.  Jeff Daniels and Matthew Goode also give good performances.

Check out Rotten Tomatoes for the synopsis: http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/lookout/about.php
Critics loved this one as the 88% fresh rating will attest.



Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: afhickman on July 06, 2007, 08:59:45 AM
Am I the only person in the world who thinks "Dill Scallion" is the funniest mockumentary ever made?  Billy Burke is peerless in the title role and Sheryl Crow contributed to the score.  Even Henry Winkler gets a fair number of laughs in what may be his best role as a record producer.  Of course, this one comes with a warning: doing the Scallion shuffle may result in permanent injury to your funny bone!
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: dback on July 09, 2007, 05:28:46 PM
I didn't see where Momento was mentioned, but I thought it was an excellent film.


Memento is mentioned on page one of this thread. 

Another recent film that inexplicably didn't find an audience is The Lookout by director Scott Frank.

(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w197/oilgun/the_lookout.jpg)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0427470/
A smart taut thriller with the always excellent (and Heath lookalike) Joseph Gordon-Levitt.  Jeff Daniels and Matthew Goode also give good performances.

Check out Rotten Tomatoes for the synopsis: http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/lookout/about.php
Critics loved this one as the 88% fresh rating will attest.



Thought it was just OK, since the main character's handicap seemed a tad convenient (he can drive?).  Builds to a strong climax, though, and J-Go continues his strong winning streak of indie turns ("Mysterious Skin" "Brick").  Best of all is Jeff Daniels, doing his best work since "The Purple Rose of Cairo."  If there were any justice, and there probably isn't, his performance would be remembered come awards season.  He'll probably pick up an Independent Spirit nod for it, and deservedly so.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: oilgun on July 10, 2007, 06:11:16 PM

Thought it was just OK, since the main character's handicap seemed a tad convenient (he can drive?).  Builds to a strong climax, though, and J-Go continues his strong winning streak of indie turns ("Mysterious Skin" "Brick").  Best of all is Jeff Daniels, doing his best work since "The Purple Rose of Cairo."  If there were any justice, and there probably isn't, his performance would be remembered come awards season.  He'll probably pick up an Independent Spirit nod for it, and deservedly so.

J-Go?!  Shame on you!  He deserves better than that, he's one of the most promising young actors out there.

Anyway, as for your comment about his handicap, it seems a lot of people have a problem with the fact that he was able and/or allowed to drive a car,  but it never bothered me. (I do wonder why it's an issue here but never was with Memento.)  It was easy for me to just assume that his ability to drive a car was part of a set of memories unaffected by his head trauma.  He might forget where he's going or why he's going there, but that happens to everyone, lol!

I agree about Jeff Daniel's performance, it would be nice if it was remenbered come awards season.

Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: sinne on July 12, 2007, 03:47:23 PM
Jeff Daniels was wonderful in "The Squid and the Whale" last year!
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: dback on July 12, 2007, 06:57:36 PM
True--repellent, but wonderful.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Lola on July 12, 2007, 07:02:09 PM
Jeff Daniels was wonderful in "The Squid and the Whale" last year!

I hated that movie with a passion, but I really like Jeff Daniels.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: oilgun on September 23, 2007, 08:48:52 AM
Has anyone seen a movie called Tomorrow starring Robert Duvall? Horton Foote (Tender Mercies) adapted his play which in turn was based on a Faulkner story.  It's an absolutely wonderful film!  I first discovered it in the eighties and loved it.  It recently found out that it was released on DVD a couple of years ago so I got a copy and watched it last night. It's as good as I remember but what really struck me time is how much Robert Duvall's performance reminded me of Heath ledger's in BbM!  With major differences of course, Duvall's Fentry is in Mississippi and sounds like Forrest Gump, but I still couldn't stop thinking of Ennis throughout the film.  I highly recommend it!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0069393/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0069393/)
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: jpq716 on January 06, 2008, 05:52:21 PM
BARRY LYNDON comes to mind immediately. Also DAYS OF HEAVEN and AMARCORD.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: afhickman on January 09, 2008, 07:41:23 AM
This is one of the great overlooked threads on this site.  There are some great suggestions here.  I picked up a copy of Brotherhood of the Wolf (Le Pacte des Loups) on DVD and watched it last night.  It was a pleasant surprise!  I bought it for Jeremie Renier, but I got caught up in the "love story" between Samuel Le Bihan and Mark Dacascos, as, respectively, a French adventurer and an Iroquois Indian.  I never expexcted to like Dacascos in anything, but he's an appropriately enigmatic presence here.  Set in 18th c. France, Brotherhood is based on an actual series of unsolved murders that are given a political explanation here. Monica Belluci and Vincent Cassell co-star.  The music and cinematography are gorgeous, and the fight scenes incredible.  A somewhat long but worthwhile film.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Flyboy on January 11, 2008, 07:34:36 PM
Well, I'll probably get shot down here, but one of my favorite films that I believe had breakout performances by both stars was The Owl and the Pussycat, with Barbra Streisand and George Segal.........it was her 1st film where she did zero singing, strictly comedy and some drama, I just never felt it got the attention and award attraction it deserved. Both stars really played their hearts out, just a raw performance from both

Year: 1970
Director: Herb Ross
Writer: Buck Henry
Stars: George Segal, Barbra Streisand,Robert Klein, Roz Kelly, and Marilyn Chambers
Awards: Babs was nominated for a Golden Globe, no win, and Buck Henry for a Writer's Guild award, no win

Trivia bit: Streisand wanted Sidney Poitier as the male lead, but producers or backers thought audiences were not ready for that coupling in this genre of film. Babs was upset, but stayed with the film, she wanted something/anything that was NOT a musical, IMHO, may be her best film choice ever.........

 
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: ingmarnicebbmt on January 12, 2008, 07:44:16 AM

Oh Jonn, I'm sooooooooo with you here!

I love that film! I even know a lot of quotations by heart!

I think Streisand is brillant in it, a true comic talent - and the whole story and dialogues are simply hilarious!

I saw it as a teenager, and will never forget the scene when GS walks into a porn cinema and sees BS for the first time on screen when she comments (off screen for us) how she is being double penetrated! Fabulous! And maddeningly funny!

I bought it as a DVD some years ago for almost nothing, showed it to friends, but somehow they didn't seem to find it as fab as I did and do!

Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Flyboy on January 12, 2008, 09:19:39 AM
My Mother took me to see it when I was still in diapers and on the bottle............. ::) ::).............LOL......... ;D >:D >:D >:D......I've never been the same since!!
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: ingmarnicebbmt on January 12, 2008, 09:21:08 AM

You mean your diapers were never the same again !!  :D  ;D

Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Flyboy on January 12, 2008, 09:27:48 AM
Well, I did PiMP a lot back then, so they tell me! ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Tammy on January 12, 2008, 09:35:33 AM
Jeff Daniels was wonderful in "The Squid and the Whale" last year!

Totally agree - and wonderful film!
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Tammy on January 12, 2008, 09:36:43 AM
I'm trying to figure out how I missed this thread!  Read the first 3 pages, was in love! Have to catch up with the rest.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: oilgun on January 12, 2008, 10:08:06 AM
Since we've been talking about Ben Wishaw on another thread, I thought I'd put in a plug here for Perfume: The Story of a Murder. It was one of my favourite movies last year but most people I know have never even heard of it.  It was beautiful, disturbing and it made me fall I love with Ben...Although a huge hit in Europe it was really underrated in North America.

(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w197/oilgun/perfume.jpg)
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: ingmarnicebbmt on January 12, 2008, 10:18:30 AM
Well, I did PiMP a lot back then, so they tell me! ::) ::) ::)

Tmi, but I sympathize with the idea...

 :D
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: MsMercury on February 28, 2008, 06:59:14 PM
I haven't gone through and read all the pages of this yet so i'm sorry if this has been mentioned but I'd like to add Hard Candy to the list. It's about a mature 14 year old (Ellen Page) that meets a photographer (Patrick Wilson) on the internet. They eventually agree to meet and suspecting he's a pedophile, she goes to his home and tries to expose him.  The movie can be very disturbing but the dialogue between the two throughout the movie is great. The psychological torture she puts this man through is mindblowing. Especially for a 14 year old girl. By the end of the film you actually start to feel sorry for the guy. I highly recommend it if you haven't seen it.  Although there are some scenes that may make some men very queasy.
Teri
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Desecra on February 29, 2008, 07:55:35 AM
Little Red Riding Hood gets the wolf - that was a disturbing film.   One thing that got me (don't want to give away too much of the story) was that there seemed to be no sense of degree - flirting with a slightly underage person was seen as as evil as raping and/or murdering them.   I wasn't sure if that was actually the point being made - the whole public hysteria over paedophilia where teenage love is mixed up in the consciousness with violent assaults on children, while at the same time images of immature women are promoted as sexual.  (The guy was a photographer). 

I suppose it makes an interesting twist that the child-like Ellen Page was actually an adult (I think) - there wouldn't have been issue with the guy chatting her up if it was real life. 
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: oilgun on February 29, 2008, 09:55:02 AM
Little Red Riding Hood gets the wolf - that was a disturbing film.   One thing that got me (don't want to give away too much of the story) was that there seemed to be no sense of degree - flirting with a slightly underage person was seen as as evil as raping and/or murdering them.   I wasn't sure if that was actually the point being made - the whole public hysteria over paedophilia where teenage love is mixed up in the consciousness with violent assaults on children, while at the same time images of immature women are promoted as sexual.  (The guy was a photographer). 

I suppose it makes an interesting twist that the child-like Ellen Page was actually an adult (I think) - there wouldn't have been issue with the guy chatting her up if it was real life. 

====SPOILER ALERT=====

I felt the same way, Desecra.  As a man, that's what made me feel queasy!  For one thing I don't think that being attracted to teens is classified as paedophelia, so if they use that term in the film, it just clouds the issue.  I personally think the film is a failure because it makes you feel sorry for the guy and then it ends up that he deserves everything he gets turning it into a standard revenge film.  Talk about a let-down!  I think it would have been way more interesting, and maybe even subversive, if the victim turned out to be a just a harmless lecher.  The performances are good though, I love that Patrick Wilson.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: dback on March 27, 2008, 12:47:54 PM
Pedophilia is children, pederasty is teenagers.  She, however, looked young enough that it was borderline pedophilia.  And either way, still not appropriate.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Hasse on April 22, 2008, 06:24:31 AM
I know these two may not qualify as overlooked films as they both won several awards. But most people I talk to have never heard of them and I love them both, they are masterpieces imo.

"Cinema Paradiso" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0095765/

"A Room With A View"  http://imdb.com/title/tt0091867/
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Marz on May 23, 2008, 07:26:52 AM
'The Station Agent' (2003)
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Desecra on May 23, 2008, 07:39:38 AM
I'm going to add En Kärlekshistoria after having it recommended on another thread.   Maybe the rest of the world didn't miss it, but I did! 
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Marz on May 23, 2008, 07:41:29 AM
i thought id add 'the station agent' as ive put it on the just watched thread and i don't think many people have seen it and i think they should
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: MsMercury on May 23, 2008, 09:51:21 PM
Somewhere In Time. It didn't do well at the box office but it has it's own "cult" following. In fact, there is a yearly gathering on the island at the hotel where the movie was shot. They have a SIT weekend. It's such a beautiful place I'd love to go on one of those weekends.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: magicmountain on June 02, 2008, 08:39:51 PM

The Story of a Sign - Cannes Short Film entry

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9eUBVpL0ZU
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: dback on June 03, 2008, 09:13:39 AM
i thought id add 'the station agent' as ive put it on the just watched thread and i don't think many people have seen it and i think they should

Oh, I love love love LOVE "The Station Agent."  That was the movie that really put Peter Dinklage on the map for me.  (His role in "Living in Oblivion" didn't scratch the surface of his talent.)  Everything about it is sublime.  Along with "Under the Tuscan Sun," it's one of my favorite feel-good movies.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Marz on June 03, 2008, 01:40:48 PM
i know he was amazing in that film!
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: gattaca on September 13, 2008, 11:31:52 AM
Somewhere In Time. It didn't do well at the box office but it has it's own "cult" following. In fact, there is a yearly gathering on the island at the hotel where the movie was shot. They have a SIT weekend. It's such a beautiful place I'd love to go on one of those weekends.

Yeah it was a good hopeless romantic film with a stellar cast (Reeves/Seymour) which was overlooked at the box office - too corney or too "far fetched" for the paying public.  :( 

This film remains easily in my top 10 of all time.   As a 16 year old teenager when I first saw it, I was fascinated, knocked for a loop...  (haunted is more like it) by SIT and the possibility that we are all old souls which have been here before.    I even tracked down the 1970 ish novel (out of print for a long time) "Bid Time Return" by Richard Matheson and purchased a copy - that movie totally knocked me for a loop and geeze it still does.  When I hear the music, I can sometimes play the scenes in my head, much like w/ BBM.    I'd have to say both of these films have lingered far longer and deeper than any others. 

wikipedia for those interested  is below and yeah there is quite a following for the fim, now 28 years later.. I wonder if BBM will achieve the same  (I sure hope so...)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somewhere_in_time

Vincent
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: dback on September 15, 2008, 05:24:04 PM
I don't know how beloved the film is, aside from cultists (who adore it), but the soundtrack is generally regarded as one of the finest pieces of music ever done for the cinema.  The first time it pinged my "radar" as being bigger than its source was--I believe--a mention in the novel "Postcards From the Edge" in the mid-80's.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: chuckyv on November 03, 2008, 11:20:18 AM
A film that was made around 1970: Walkabout. Directed by Nicolas Roeg.
Beautiful open skies,landscapes and  a great performance by Jenny Agutter. It will stay with you long after you see it.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: chuckyv on November 03, 2008, 11:37:40 AM
OK, since I haven't been here in ages, here are some overlooked (or maybe not?) films I highly recommend:

Stevie - Glenda Jackson - about the poet Stevie Smith.  I have watched this many times and love it more and more each time.
Ruby in Paradise - with a very young Ashley Judd, might be her first movie.  Little slice-of-life, very well done.
House of Games - David Mamet.  I recommended it to everyone when I discovered it and everyone loved it. Lots of twists and turns.
Last Night - a great little Canadian film by the always-interesting Don McKellar, and featuring Sandra Oh, who's equisite.
My Life as a Dog - Swedish.  Directed by Lasse Halstrom, before he came to America and went downhill.
Citizen Ruth - black comedy about both sides of the abortion issue.  Laura Dern is always putting it all on the line & successfully.
Rambling Rose - another Laura Dern gem.
Manny & Lo - Scarlett Johannson as a kid in a wonderful story of two motherless girls.
Crumb - documentary about underground cartoonist R. Crumb.  Unforgettable.  (probably not so overlooked...?)
84 Charing Cross Road - based on a lovely little book  - with Anne Bancroft, Anthony Hopkins and Judi Dench - all in top form.
Dirty Pretty Things - our local film society patrons voted this their #2 fav, after "Whale Rider".  Got spontaneous applause in the middle!
Entertaining Mr. Sloane - black comedy by playright Joe Orton.  Not for everyone but I loved it.
The Shop Around the Corner - hopefully not overlooked.  Don't miss it if you've never seen it.  Pauline Kael called it "sheer perfection".

That's all for now....


I loved My life as a dog.Really heartbreaking,but the way the whole film was described as through the eyes of a child,kept it from getting too sentimental.Really lovely.A refreshing and honest way of depicting grief,and the way life continues.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: chuckyv on November 03, 2008, 11:44:55 AM
MAYA:  Perhaps Brokeback wasn't a big deal in France because they are not as puritanical as so many Americans - I hope.  Curious to see if it will receive a Cesar nomination for Foreign Film.  Thanks!

I don't think gay themed films are such a big deal in Europe as the US [although I've never been to the US so could be wrong].  I remember watching 'Get Real' here - it was a nice little teenage romance story over here, but I wondered what the US would make of it.  The main character was a 16 year old boy who was clearly sexually active with men, and the film didn't protray this as 'a bad thing' :).   I have got the impression that 16 seems to be considered younger in the US than it is here [i.e. still almost a child].


Does anyone remember a film from 1996 called The Wild Reeds (Les Rosseau Sauvage) .I can't name any of the cast,but it was so atmospheric.About two boys growing up,discovering their sexuality,learning about life. Really good,but was only seen on the arthouse circuit.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Marz on November 03, 2008, 12:42:19 PM
Im sure Michelle Williams new film 'Wendy and Lucy' will be overlooked, cos its a small budget film but i can't wait to see it and hope it gets alot of advertising
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on December 04, 2008, 09:51:09 PM
Somewhere In Time. It didn't do well at the box office but it has it's own "cult" following. In fact, there is a yearly gathering on the island at the hotel where the movie was shot. They have a SIT weekend. It's such a beautiful place I'd love to go on one of those weekends.

Yeah it was a good hopeless romantic film with a stellar cast (Reeves/Seymour) which was overlooked at the box office - too corney or too "far fetched" for the paying public.  :( 

This film remains easily in my top 10 of all time.   As a 16 year old teenager when I first saw it, I was fascinated, knocked for a loop...  (haunted is more like it) by SIT and the possibility that we are all old souls which have been here before.    I even tracked down the 1970 ish novel (out of print for a long time) "Bid Time Return" by Richard Matheson and purchased a copy - that movie totally knocked me for a loop and geeze it still does.  When I hear the music, I can sometimes play the scenes in my head, much like w/ BBM.    I'd have to say both of these films have lingered far longer and deeper than any others. 

wikipedia for those interested  is below and yeah there is quite a following for the fim, now 28 years later.. I wonder if BBM will achieve the same  (I sure hope so...)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somewhere_in_time

Vincent

I actually read the novel before I saw the film when it came out.  I
must admit that I was a bit disappointed because the book was
written about the Hotel Del Coronado which I absolutely love and
I assumed it would be shot there and it wasn't.  The Del is quite
famous for Some Like It Hot and The Stunt Man, though.  But I
quickly got over that and do really like the film.

I don't know why it didn't do well on its first release.  It's always
been a video favorite.  I remember when it was released that
it was very difficult to find a theatre it was playing in.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on December 04, 2008, 09:52:35 PM
Does anyone remember a film from 1996 called The Wild Reeds (Les Rosseau Sauvage) .I can't name any of the cast,but it was so atmospheric.About two boys growing up,discovering their sexuality,learning about life. Really good,but was only seen on the arthouse circuit.

I saw Wild Reeds and thought it was quite good.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: oilgun on January 21, 2009, 02:04:10 PM
Does anyone remember a film from 1996 called The Wild Reeds (Les Rosseau Sauvage) .I can't name any of the cast,but it was so atmospheric.About two boys growing up,discovering their sexuality,learning about life. Really good,but was only seen on the arthouse circuit.

I saw Wild Reeds and thought it was quite good.

Wild Reeds was recently re-released in North America as part of a 4-film Téchiné collection.  Also included are:  Hotel Des Ameriques, J'Embrasse Pas & My Favorite Season.

I just watched The Greenstreet Hooligans (aka Hooligans, 2005) and although not a great film, I thought it was pretty darn good & I don't think many people have seen it.  I didn't even know it existed until a few months ago.   It stars Elijah Wood, who isn't one of my favourite actors, I found him insufferable in LotR, and Charlie Hunnam, who I do like a lot, but man, he sure isn't the Twink from QaF-UK, that's for sure.  There is a brief scene of him without a shirt that sent my jaw dropping to the floor with a large thud.  Let's just say that he's in amazing shape, god-like, really.  Anyway, wrapped around this tasty scene is a fascinating story about the football hooligan sub-culture.  Highly recommended but, as to be expected, it is quite violent.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: oilgun on January 25, 2009, 07:25:17 AM
I'm pretty stoked because Cinemathèque Ontario is having a Terence Davies retrospective, including his latest OF TIME AND THE CITY.  I got for DISTANT VOICES STILL LIVES which plays tomorrow and THE TERENCE DAVIES TRILOGY on Feb 7th. oTatC is also being screened at the Bloor cinema Feb.1-4 which is when I'll see it.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: dback on January 29, 2009, 07:27:16 PM
Terrence Davies is love-it-or-hate-it filmmaking--in an odd way, it reminds me of Rufus Wainwright's voice, in that it's so romantic and personal, yet so idiosyncratic.  "Distant Voices Still Lives" is a terrific drama, though hard to watch at times, but "The Long Day Closes" is a frigging masterpiece.  Mind you, I'm not saying it's a masterpiece everyone will love--it's too deliberate and moody for that.  Yet the artistry is staggering--just one long tracking shot of a wall on a rainy night while Nat King Cole sings "Stardust" becomes one of the most lyrical, haunting things you've ever seen.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: oilgun on January 29, 2009, 08:45:06 PM
Terrence Davies is love-it-or-hate-it filmmaking--in an odd way, it reminds me of Rufus Wainwright's voice, in that it's so romantic and personal, yet so idiosyncratic.  "Distant Voices Still Lives" is a terrific drama, though hard to watch at times, but "The Long Day Closes" is a frigging masterpiece.  Mind you, I'm not saying it's a masterpiece everyone will love--it's too deliberate and moody for that.  Yet the artistry is staggering--just one long tracking shot of a wall on a rainy night while Nat King Cole sings "Stardust" becomes one of the most lyrical, haunting things you've ever seen.

Actually, Rufus Wainwright's voice is like nails on a blackboard to me.  :P

THE LONG DAY CLOSES was being screened tonight but I had another engagement  :'(
I'm still hoping for a North American DVD release....
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: fofol on September 11, 2009, 12:33:45 PM
Three Dancing Slaves (en Francais, Le Clan): Three brothers, two of them openly gay and involved in Brazilian fight dancing, one of them a small time hood.  Small time hood gets a severe beating (and his little dog, too) as a result of a bad drug deal.  The youngest brother winds up taking care of him, and also winds up with the hoodlum's boyfriend.  Older brother and middle brother threaten the younger one with a total body shave: they follow through, although we only get to see the results.  It is worth it.   Beautiful scenery, actors; lovely ending.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: tfferg on September 12, 2009, 10:10:54 PM
A film that was made around 1970: Walkabout. Directed by Nicolas Roeg.
Beautiful open skies,landscapes and  a great performance by Jenny Agutter. It will stay with you long after you see it.

Even better, Walkabout was the first film with the wonderful David Gulpilil.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: tfferg on September 12, 2009, 10:14:26 PM


Does anyone remember a film from 1996 called The Wild Reeds (Les Rosseau Sauvage) .I can't name any of the cast,but it was so atmospheric.About two boys growing up,discovering their sexuality,learning about life. Really good,but was only seen on the arthouse circuit.

Yes, I found it well worthwhile.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: suelyblu on September 13, 2009, 06:45:40 PM
A film I always enjoy watching is  "The Sundowners" starring Deborah Kerr and Robert Mitchum directed by Fred Zimmeman. Film re Sheep Drovers in the Australian outback.( Why do sheep and Australians play such a big part in my life ?? !!!! ) Film was made 1960.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: canmark on November 08, 2009, 10:39:08 AM
It's getting to be that time of year when movie lists start coming out. This is the Times of London's 100 Best Movies of the Decade:
http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/film/article6902642.ece

Some notables (or not):

#100 The Devil Wears Prada
#98 Crash (ie. mortal enemy of BBM fans)
#75 Talk to Her and #56 Volver (2 for Pedro Almodovar)
#66 City of God (so low on the list?!)
#53 Milk
#33 Monsoon Wedding (personally, I'm thrilled by the high ranking of this excellent Mira Nair film)
#22 Far From Heaven
#20 Donnie Darko (Jake Gyllenhaal)
#17 Brokeback Mountain
#11 Borat (Borat?! 55 spots higher than City of God?!)
#8 Casino Royale (James Bond in the top 10?)
Top 5:
#5 Team America: World Police
#4 Grizzly Man
#3 No Country For Old Men
#2 The Bourne Supremacy/The Bourne Ultimatum (are they serious?)
#1 Hidden (Cache)
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: dback on November 10, 2009, 07:45:22 AM
Didn't even occur to me that there'd be an upcoming flood of "Best of the 00's" lists, but there probably will be.  Look for lots of bouquets to be tossed "Brokeback's" way, with more than a few brickbats directed at the AMPAS and "Crash." 

I'd have to really think hard about the best films I've seen since 2000--this is why it's a pity I stopped keeping scrapbooks with my favorite movie reviews, including end-of-the-year best.  I could always go on Rotten Tomatoes, I suppose, if I wanted my memory jogged.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Ennis Del Mark on November 10, 2009, 07:49:06 AM
Wow!  I just don't think about this being the end year of a decade!  I suppose there will be lots of best films of the decade (the "aughts"?) lists.  I'll be watching to see where BBM (and CRASH) land on these lists.

Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: dback on November 10, 2009, 08:09:15 AM
How about: Twenty OF the best films of the decade?  I'd include:

Brokeback Mountain
Milk
Up
Erin Brockovich
Young At Heart
Man On Wire
Lord of the Rings
Good Night and Good Luck
Far From Heaven
Chicago
The Aviator
Farenheit 9/11
Lars and the Real Girl
Kinsey
Under the Tuscan Sun
Before Sunset
Pan's Labyrinth
A.I. Artificial Intelligence
Away From Her
Finding Neverland

But I'm sure with enough time, I could come up with another 30.  (I didn't even include "Finding Nemo" "Hairspray" "Sweeny Todd" "Latter Days" "Volver" "Minority Report" "Peter Pan" "The Confederate States of America" "Traffic" "Dreamgirls" and a host of others.)
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on November 10, 2009, 01:41:08 PM
And I'd probably knock half of your choices off my list! :)

Every year I mention the following overlooked film, in hopes
that someone else will watch it and give me their opinion, but
it hasn't happened yet!

Although there are dozens of Christmas themed films that
Hollywood has made, there are very few that take Thanksgiving
under their wing, although a couple have a Thanksgiving scene
or two like our own favorite, Brokeback Mountain.

With the Thanksgiving holiday upcoming, I would like to recommend
a trip to the rental store or a netflix suggestion for this year's viewing.
It's a film called WHAT'S COOKING?  It takes place on Thanksgiving
Day in Los Angeles and deals with four different families--Asian,
Latino, Jewish, and African-American, and their unrelated lives, or
so it seems.  There's a side of politics, WASPs, and LGBT
friendliness thrown in for good measure and a whole lot of food to
tantalize your tastebuds.  In fact, the dvd has a section of recipes
used in the film!

The "women" are the stars of the film--Joan Chen, Julianna Margulies,
Mercedes Ruehl, Kyra Sedgwick, Alfre Woodard, Estelle Harris and Lainie
Kazan, but you have to have some men around to argue with on the holiday,
so A Martinez and Dennis Haysbert, among others, are there for support!
It was directed by Gurinder Chadha, whose most famous effort is probably
her Bend It Like Beckham film which forced, I mean introduced, Keira
Knightley upon us.

The plot of the film can be summed up in the film's tagline:
Families. Fights.  Feasts.

(http://www.availableimages.com/images/previews/What%27s%20Cooking%20(2000).jpg)

A poster on IMDB described the film thusly:  "Funny, charming, poignant,
and completely entertaining throughout.... a very talented ensemble
cast...some surprises in the story.  This is, I think, a holiday classic.
I look forward to seeing it again and again."


I concur!

P.S.:  The dvd in the U.K. has a rather amusing cover: (http://thehut.pantherssl.com/productimg/1/100/dvd/31/848531_DV_M_F.JPG)
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: dback on November 11, 2009, 11:11:12 AM
I've always meant to see "What's Cooking"--it's supposedly one of the best movies ever set at Thanksgiving.  (Which, admittedly, doesn't have a lot of competition; look at all the talent that couldn't make "Home for the Holidays" fly.)  I think it's also one of those "food porn" films, like "Babbette's Feast" "Eat Drink Man Woman" "Tortilla Soup" and "Big Night," where you'd better have a good dinner before watching it.

Lyle, no offense taken--I'd fully expect to defend several of my choices, especially "A.I.", which makes some people grind their teeth to dust.  (I'm certainly not blind to its faults, but that doesn't negate the power of its imagery and the dramatic impact of its creepier scenes.)  But how could I have forgotten "The Station Agent" "Billy Elliott" and "Shortbus"! 
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: canmark on November 15, 2009, 05:06:16 PM
London's The Daily Telegraph has produced their list of the Top 100 films of the oughts. Like the Times of London, Crash does make their list (albeit way down at 98). But they've put BMM way up at #2, behind only Fahrenheit 9/11. That they've put Mamma Mia at #18 makes me want to discount their list entirely, however.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/6501160/Top-100-movies-defining-the-noughties-00s-in-film.html

Top 5:

1. Fahrenheit 9/11
2. Brokeback Mountain
3. The Incredibles
4. There Will Be Blood
5. Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Rings
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Jer009 on December 27, 2009, 12:35:33 AM
I admit I haven't heard the story yet, but from the title alone this one sounds like it belongs in this thread:

(snip)

Film Buff
December 25, 2009

Congress created the National Film Registry in 1988 to preserve cherished American films. Daniel Eagan, author of America’s Film Legacy: The Authoritative Guide to Landmark Movies in the National Film Registry says the registry has become a repository of both classics and obscure titles, all saved from the dumpster.

http://www.onthemedia.org/transcripts/2009/12/25/03

I hope they mention BBM and give it a glowing review!
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: sinne on June 26, 2010, 11:10:38 PM
Apparently the decade isn't officially over until December 2010, so there will be a lot more lists out at the end of this year.  I'm still working on mine.  Will definitely have a few documentaries like, "Dear Zachary", "Fog of War" and "Chris & Don: A Love Story".
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: B.W. on July 14, 2013, 05:41:05 PM
" FRIED GREEN TOMATOES" is somewhat underrated in my opinion.  It's one of my favorite movies of all time.  It was a success at the box office.  Critics liked it, it's a classic amongst moviegoers in a way but I don't think it got enough praise.  It should get more praise than what it has recieved.


" Delores Claiborne" based on a bestselling Stephen King novel.  The film stars Kathy Bates ( I adore her), Jennifer Jason Leigh and has Christopher Plummer ( he's so hot) in a supporting role. Highly underrated and underappreciated in my opinion.



Walt Disney's 1996 animated blockbuster " The Huncback of Notre Dame" was well recieved but is somewhat underrated I think.  It was quite dark for being a G rated film but that's what makes it so good.  I think it deserves more attention. Yes, the gargoyles were not necessary and the film would have been even more better without them.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: morrobay on July 14, 2013, 05:51:41 PM
Oh, I'm glad you posted here, I don't think I've ever read this thread.  It's pretty interesting.  I can't think of any overlooked films right now, but I'll think about it...
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: B.W. on July 14, 2013, 06:09:57 PM
I have never seen " The Passion of Joan of Arc" but I have heard quite a bit about it and it sounds interesting for a silent film. JOA's life is interesting to me, even though I am an atheist.  I believe she was a good person and that her heart was in the right place , I think she helped change her country for the better and I find it unfortunate that the very Church she loved was the one that betrayed her.  " The Messenger: The Story of Joan of Arc" with Milla Jovovich was a fun watch as was the 1999 tv miniseries entitled " Joan of Arc" starring Leelee Sobieski, Neil Patrick Harris, Faye Dunaway and Maximilian Schell along with a host of other well-known actors and actresses.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: B.W. on August 08, 2013, 02:33:40 AM
Disney's 1960 film " Pollyanna". I love Haley Mills.  I also enjoyed Agnes Moorehead's performance as Mrs. Snow.  The actor who played Edmond Chilton was cute.  The actress who played Nancy was pretty and I liked Jane Wyman's role as Aunt Polly Harrington.  The actor who played the angry old man with big tree, Mr. Pendergast or something like that was good.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: gattaca on August 09, 2013, 07:52:41 PM
OTOMH, these I highly recommend:

"Touching the Void (2003)" - a quest on Siula Grande turns unbelievable tragic.  This film had me clawing at the edge of my seat - all true.  The extra material on the DVD where the guys revisit the mountain is a must see as well.   But if you are not into true mountain climber tragedy, then skip it.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0379557/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

"Handsome Harry (2009)" - If you liked BBM, then you will enjoy this one.  I do not know how it slipped past so many BBM fans.  I really believe the title puts people off and they never give it a chance.  I have yet to find a Brokie that did not enjoy the film - but I'm sure someone will surface now that I said that..

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1318001/

Cheers, V
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: CellarDweller115 on August 16, 2013, 02:52:31 PM
"Handsome Harry (2009)" - If you liked BBM, then you will enjoy this one.  I do not know how it slipped past so many BBM fans.  I really believe the title puts people off and they never give it a chance.  I have yet to find a Brokie that did not enjoy the film - but I'm sure someone will surface now that I said that..

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1318001/

Cheers, V


You recommended this to me a while ago, and I'm glad you did.  Really enjoyed the movie, and I gave it a spotlight on TDS last year.  Very well done.  I own the DVD now.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: suelyblu on August 24, 2013, 08:33:29 PM

You recommended this to me a while ago, and I'm glad you did.  Really enjoyed the movie, and I gave it a spotlight on TDS last year.  Very well done.  I own the DVD now.

I will definitely make moves to get this film. Thanks for the intro.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: CellarDweller115 on August 24, 2013, 08:35:44 PM
Trust me Sue, once you see it, you'll understand what a good movie it is.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: gattaca on September 01, 2013, 12:31:47 PM
So not to cross-post, here's a link to a film (Morgan - 2012) readers here may want to add to their punch list.  Not breathtaking but unique in the material it is exploring.. at least for me.

http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=277.2715

Cheers, V.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: CellarDweller115 on September 19, 2013, 09:51:02 PM
"Handsome Harry (2009)" - If you liked BBM, then you will enjoy this one.  I do not know how it slipped past so many BBM fans.  I really believe the title puts people off and they never give it a chance.  I have yet to find a Brokie that did not enjoy the film - but I'm sure someone will surface now that I said that..

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1318001/


Hiya Vincent.  Just wanted you to know that tonight I had Jules (Catia) and MaineGirl (Sue) over for dinner and to watch Inside the Actors Studio with Jake on it.  Dinner finished early, and we had time to fill, so I asked if either of them had seen "Handsome Harry".  Neither had, so I put the DVD in and we watched it together.  Truth be told I occasionally fast forwarded over the driving scenes (we wanted to make sure the film finished before Actors Studio went on) but all the major scenes we watched, and both Sue and Catia said they thought it was a well done film and one they enjoyed.

There were the occasional comparisons to BBM, and at one point later in the film Sue and I referred to the scenes with the barmaid (Muriel) as "the Cassie moments".
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: gattaca on September 21, 2013, 05:06:37 PM
...but all the major scenes we watched, and both Sue and Catia said they thought it was a well done film and one they enjoyed.
There were the occasional comparisons to BBM, and at one point later in the film Sue and I referred to the scenes with the barmaid (Muriel) as "the Cassie moments".

Yes. That's a very good analogy. 

Whenever I shut my eyes and replay this film in my head, it's always, the dinner at his parents, the piano, the eye contact in the Jazz nightclub, the brief bedroom scene, the dancing scenes, the outing, the fight, the armature,  then the ending scenes over dinner - just gut wrenching.   

Yes, the film has some slow moments, some diversions, and other which also harken to "cassie" when he rejects his old friends wife as well.   

Overall, one of my favorite films and one of the most overlooked.  Thanks for sharing.  Others, if you have not seen this, put it on your play list, love to talk about it!    Cheers, V.   
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: BlueJeanJeannie on December 12, 2013, 02:06:35 PM
OTOMH, these I highly recommend:

"Touching the Void (2003)" - a quest on Siula Grande turns unbelievable tragic.  This film had me clawing at the edge of my seat - all true.  The extra material on the DVD where the guys revisit the mountain is a must see as well.   But if you are not into true mountain climber tragedy, then skip it.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0379557/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

"Handsome Harry (2009)" - If you liked BBM, then you will enjoy this one.  I do not know how it slipped past so many BBM fans.  I really believe the title puts people off and they never give it a chance.  I have yet to find a Brokie that did not enjoy the film - but I'm sure someone will surface now that I said that..

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1318001/

Cheers, V

First time I've read this thread.

V, you recommended "Touching the Void" to me, after I found out Jake G.'s upcoming "Everest" is based on Jon Krakauer's book 'Into thin air' and after I mentioned my love for "Into the wild", starring Emile Hirsch, also based on a Krakauer book.

I've seen "Touching the Void". Liked it, but somehow I preferred the book - I'm currently reading my third Joe Simpson book.

I will definately try "Handsome Harry". Sounds promising!
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: CellarDweller115 on December 12, 2013, 04:17:29 PM
I will definately try "Handsome Harry". Sounds promising!

I've seen Handsome Harry, it is definitely a film that should be seen.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: foreverinawe on March 22, 2016, 09:59:32 AM
A Brokie views the movie Dream Boy

If Dream Boy is new to you, you may think it parallels Brokeback Mountain too closely, almost plagiarizing some of it. Trouble is, Dream Boy came first, two years before BBM.

1995 the story Dream Boy, by Jim Grimsley, is published
1997 the story Brokeback Mountain, by Annie Proulx, is published

2005 the movie Brokeback Mountain, directed by Ang Lee, is released
2008 the movie Dream Boy, directed by James Bolton, is released

The two movies reverse the publishing sequence, and that certainly leads to some confusion. Nevertheless Dream Boy is a story about two boys who fall in love, and if that parallels Brokeback Mountain, so be it. 

Both movies make significant changes to their parent stories, but each movie stands on its own. In this post I only want to tell you a bit about the movie Dream Boy.

I encountered it on youtube, quite by chance. I had never heard of it before. After the first few minutes, I was hooked. After it ended, 90 minutes later, I ordered the book. Oh yeah, it got me good.

From the first time I saw Brokeback Mountain, I regarded SNIT as the finest portrayal of love and desire that I had ever seen in the movies. I felt the boys were utterly honest. That same honesty is in Dream Boy. It is surpassing.

The movie has flaws, I don't deny. Most are either technical (and unimportant) or developmental (and disappointing). But they simply pale in the light of the love that is portrayed.

If I told you Brokeback Mountain ended sadly, would you have gone to see it for the first time? Knowing it as you do now, isn't that a bit of a silly question? It is a story about human life and human love.

Dream Boy is the same. I don't think you will ever forget it.

I know I won't.

   ~~~fia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8l3wla4L-k&spfreload=10 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8l3wla4L-k&spfreload=10)

PS I will post later in greater detail, but right now I don't want to give spoilers.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: CellarDweller115 on March 22, 2016, 05:36:49 PM
Regarding the movie discussed in the  post above, I've found a copy of "Dream Boy" posted to You Tube, in full, that you can watch for free.

If you'd like to watch the movie and give your views as well, watch it here!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8l3wla4L-k
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: CellarDweller115 on April 03, 2016, 10:11:44 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8l3wla4L-k&spfreload=10 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8l3wla4L-k&spfreload=10)

PS I will post later in greater detail, but right now I don't want to give spoilers.


Having just seen the movie last night, it's still pretty fresh on my mind.  I am going to discuss it, so I issue a spoiler alert now.


*Spoiler Alert*  If you haven't seen the movie and don't want to see spoilers, skip past this post now.



It truly seemed to be that there was a lot of similar things between the two movies.

Pretty locations to distract from the ugliness of their lives - Roy's girlfriend not knowing the true relationship between  Nathan and Roy -  Roy's violent threats to Nathan mirrored the Ennis/Alma Thanksgiving scene -  There was even a storyline of an older man hung upside down  and having his ball cut off, much like tough old bird Earl - After their first time being intimate the next scene shows Nathan and his family in church.

For a while the bus seemed to be their version of Brokeback, which they could literally move to "out in the middle of no where"

What I did notice that was pretty different was that Nathan was the sexually active one or the 'leader' in a way, however, when it came to the relationship,  Roy was in charge.   After the first hand hold, he pulled his hand out from under Nathan's and then placed it on top.  He was the one that initiated the fight and break-up,  as well as the reconciliation.  He was the one who decided where and when they would go places.

While not touched on in Brokeback (the movie) the short story definitely mentions Jack's father's abuse of Jack, and Dream Boy amped that up a few notches between Nathan and his father.

This movie seemed to take on the theme of being haunted.  Haunted cemetery, haunted plantation, being haunted by the past behaviors of others, to Nathan literally haunting Roy at the farm and school bus.

Overall, a good film.  It didn't get the same emotional response  that Brokeback, but that shouldn't stop others from watching it themelves.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: brian on April 03, 2016, 01:12:12 PM
SPOILERS
I am sorry but I watched it but did not like it at all. The ending was terrible, too confusing. At first I thought Roy was crying at the funeral and it is still not clear whether Nathan died or not. From what I read the book had a better ending. I did not understand why Nathan was scared of his father until almost the end and I guess that annoys me as so many people believe we are often gay because of childhood molestation. Jack's father was a tyrant but as far as we know that was all.

I guess now 10 years later it is no longer so wonderful to see 2 males making out on the screen in a film that is not a porn film. I could have put a bomb under Nathan, I did not find him attractive at all. The movie was so slow, I stopped it a number of times and did other things.
While Roy did take the lead after the first move, it took a while before he would accept being anything but the dominant partner so he was conflicted by his same-sex feelings.

I found it confusing that Roy drove the school bus. That would never happen here. In rural areas school buses are usually driven by retired people or mothers.  In fact we have just had a legal case of a school bus driver who was a retired teacher and principal being convicted of sexual abuse of disabled female students.

I am glad I saw BBM before this movie.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: CellarDweller115 on April 03, 2016, 01:15:19 PM
I found it confusing that Roy drove the school bus. That would never happen here. In rural areas school buses are usually driven by retired people or mothers.  In fact we have just had a legal case of a school bus driver who was a retired teacher and principal being convicted of sexual abuse of disabled female students.

Brian, I didn't mention it, but that was one thing that confused me as well.  The only explanation that I could think of was that the area was so rural, they didn't have a regular driver.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: foreverinawe on April 03, 2016, 03:32:38 PM
Brian, I didn't mention it, but that was one thing that confused me as well.  The only explanation that I could think of was that the area was so rural, they didn't have a regular driver.

***SPOILERS***

The movie Dream Boy and its parent book have elicited a lot of comments on the web (Amazon, youtube, commercial reviews, etc).  Some of these are very informative.

One commenter said that having licensed, mature students drive the school bus was sanctioned in many poor, rural counties in the South in the 70s. The drivers were paid only a little, but it was a great help to them, plus it saved the school systems a lot of money. A bus only had to make one round trip a day, saving gas, wear and tear. The commenter said he saw it firsthand, actually rode in one.

Many commenters complained that the ending was confusing to the point of alienating them. I was uncertain about what I was seeing myself. But somewhere along the line (probably due to reading a review), I realized that Bolton had deliberately introduced a supernatural element. And in a flash, I intuited its purpose...

   ...he wanted to show that the love between Nathan and Roy was real, and that they understood that their loss would be forever.
   He brought Nathan back to life just for long enough for each of them to tell the other how they felt.
 
   Face-to-face, each tried to speak. Neither had the words to express  the totality of their love and their heartbreak,
   but their faces spoke profoundly. Each understood this would only last for an instant, but at least they were sure of each other. 
   A dream to cling to...(or, what's a heaven for?)

   Jack and Ennis never had that chance. 

Chuck, you used the word "haunting". In music, there is an unsettling interval on the scale called a tritone, and Dream Boy's music composer, Richard Buckner, uses it throughout the movie. Often it is accompanied by a muffled bass drum, and the effect is....haunting. To me, in the surreal ending as Nathan walks back into life,  it says "This is unreal."

I noted in the credits that James Bolton credits himself with being the "Music Supervisor". I suspect that means that he personally took charge of just which music to play in which scenes. I hope that Bolton and Buckner parted friends. I thought the music was superb.

   ~~~fia
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: CellarDweller115 on April 03, 2016, 05:26:55 PM
Music was well used in the movie, and at certain times, it felt very "Brokeback" to me as well.

I'll admit to a bit of confusion with the ending as well.  When Nathan said he wouldn't leave the house, I knew he had come back as a ghost.  It was the part where Roy saw him that threw me off. 
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: foreverinawe on April 07, 2016, 03:47:38 PM
***SPOILERS***

I am intrigued by the music on the soundtrack of Dream Boy. The movie's original music composer is Richard Buckner, and the credits at the end of the movie show he wrote and performed many of the songs. Two other composers were also named, but their contributions were small. FWIW, the movie's Director, James Bolton, credits himself as "Music Supervisor"; there's gotta be a story there somewhere.

In all honesty, I had never heard of Buckner before, so I Wikipedia-ed him. Imagine my surprise when I read, "Buckner's career began with Bloomed (1994), a lyrically-dense suite of songs recorded in Lubbock, Texas (produced by Lloyd Maines) and heavily influenced by that state's tradition of whiskey-soaked poet/troubadors."

(Merle Haggard died yesterday, but he was from California. Apparently, Buckner hasn't done jail time -- at least it wasn't mentioned. Otherwise, they have a lot in common.)

Buckner is original, virtually esoteric. He composes, plays (on guitar) and sings mainly dark songs about struggle, loss and remorse, but they're brilliant, much like Haggard's. He has half a dozen CDs on the market (see him on Amazon).

For Dream Boy, however, he was all instrumental, his guitar and bass drum taking center stage. There were other musicians as well, but not soloists. After the movie was made, there was trouble about copyrights, and Buckner was not able to turn his Dream Boy music into a CD. Too bad. But he does have a website, and a good bit of the sound track music can be heard here:

http://www.richardbuckner.com/#!listen (http://www.richardbuckner.com/#!listen)

The website doesn't have nice, easily recognized options. Much of the printing is hard to read and the stop-start-play buttons look like they are deliberately grayed out (but they're not. They still respond when you click them.) The main problem is that the song titles aren't familiar.

If you've watched the movie a couple times, you'll probably recognize these pieces and their scenes:

Variation 1 - welcome          Opening scene in movie, Nathan watching scenery from car; family attends church, goes home.

Graveyard                          First visit to graveyard; love blossoms

Variation 2 - barn               Nathan runs away; sleeps in Roy's barn

Haunted                            A long walk brings them to the haunted house

Breaking In                        The four boys break into the haunted house

Coming Back                      Nathan's spirit is made flesh again briefly, to seek Roy and say goodbye

Goodbye                            Nathan's returned spirit dies (a strummed death knell). Roy's life-long fantasy begins

Not every song on the website's list is in the movie, although snippets of all of them may be. Sometimes the volume is too low, sometimes the excerpt is too short, sometimes both. Regardless, Buckner's ability to make music intensify emotion is uncanny.

I am stunned by Coming Back, the tritone dirge mated to the bass drum. I've never heard more powerful music.

   ~~~fia
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Flyboy on April 09, 2016, 08:27:20 PM
I rarely post a film 'review' in this thread, because I don't think I'm articulate enough!! But I thought, what the heck, do it!!

So, Dream Boy sounded intriguing to me, I watched it yesterday. It held my attention, which is the first thing I look for in any film! 

Overall, I liked it, yet, no spoiler here, I didn't care for the ending at all.......I'm not one of those who only likes happy endings, or has to have everything
nice and tidied up, no loose ends, or unresolved issues. This film could have been one that had various endings, and the producer/director/editor, whoever,
had to make a pick. I just don't like the one they picked. Probably just me. I forget who else has viewed the film here, Oilgun, Chuck, Lyle? I'd like another's
opinion of it.....
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Sason on April 10, 2016, 07:12:58 AM
*spoilers*



I watched (part of) Dream Boy the other day.
I quite liked it, up until the scene in the abandoned house. That's where it started to get creepy. I don't like creepy movies, so I stopped watching it there.
Afterwards, I read fia's review in Respond to the daily sheet about Nathan being killed, and realised that I'll never want to see the full movie. I'm glad I stopped it.

I did have an uneasy feeling during most of the movie, and reading fia's post about the music, esp the tritones, I realise why. Despite the seemingly innocent content, the music foreshadows the sad ending.

Like other people here, I saw a lot of parallels with BBM. Two young boys, one shy and unexperienced and one more advanced. Furtive glances.  The rural setting. A girlfriend who doesn't understand what's going on.

When the teenagers talked it reminded me of something, and it took a while before I realised that they sounded very much like Junior. I don't think it's because they're teenagers like her, rather the accent. I don't know what accent it is, but there was something very distinct about the way the talked. Maybe someone here knows.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: foreverinawe on April 10, 2016, 08:50:54 AM
*spoilers*
I watched (part of) Dream Boy the other day.
I quite liked it, up until the scene in the abandoned house. That's where it started to get creepy. I don't like creepy movies, so I stopped watching it there.
Afterwards, I read fia's review in Respond to the daily sheet about Nathan being killed, and realised that I'll never want to see the full movie. I'm glad I stopped it.

Hi Sonja,

I wish I could persuade you to skip the creepy and violent part of the story. I think the movie will deliver an ending that you will always respect.

Put the movie on Pause, and go to time 1:20.00 (the late afternoon church service). Hit Play. Roy is weeping.  The preacher intones "...and He who sat upon the throne, said, Behold. I make all things new."

The church scene fades, and we see the drape covering Nathan. He "wakes up", and begins his walk to find Roy. The tritone dirge begins, and while we recognize its deep meaning, we realize that there must be a reason why it is included in the story.

And indeed there is.

When Nathan finds Roy and they instinctively embrace, the elements of the story rain down all around. Nathan's left shoulder, blood stained; Nathan delicately sitting down (need anyone explain?), not enough time to say I'm Sorry For Leaving You Alone, not enough time for Nathan to tell his terrible secret (Roy will never know), not enough time for trying to say How Much I Love You, not enough time for saying This Is Forever, We'll Never Touch Again.

And yet their faces say it all. The knell sounds.

If Ennis's tear-filled eyes and "Jack, I swear" delivered the enormous impact of that tragedy to you, I will tell you these beautiful faces delivered their silent, bottomless sorrow to me.

Once more, I am in awe.

  ~~~fia
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Sason on April 10, 2016, 09:39:30 AM
Fia, your prose is like poetry.

I might give it another shot, and do as you suggest.

Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: gnash on February 05, 2017, 02:28:51 AM
A Brokie views the movie Dream Boy

If Dream Boy is new to you, you may think it parallels Brokeback Mountain too closely, almost plagiarizing some of it. Trouble is, Dream Boy came first, two years before BBM.

1995 the story Dream Boy, by Jim Grimsley, is published
1997 the story Brokeback Mountain, by Annie Proulx, is published

2005 the movie Brokeback Mountain, directed by Ang Lee, is released
2008 the movie Dream Boy, directed by James Bolton, is released
......

just now watching this movie...

add to that:


brokeback mountain has kate mara as junior
dream boy has rooney mara as evelyn


i thought she looked familiar!



Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: gattaca on February 05, 2017, 08:18:52 AM
Brian, I didn't mention it, but that was one thing that confused me as well.  The only explanation that I could think of was that the area was so rural, they didn't have a regular driver.

I've not watched this yet but will.  So I may be reading some into this thread. I'll comment on the bus drivers:
 
FWIW, that's the way it is today, adult, older, experienced drivers.  However, 30 years ago, the bus drivers, at least around here in the rural farming south, we used older responsible high school students with perfect driving records.  I also think they had to have had their licenses a year or more.  BTW, 16 was the permanent license age then, not this graduated system today.  These jobs were seen as a win/win.  Gave the kids (mostly guys) working responsibilities (they had to clean the insides of the buses) and some easy cash for a few hours work a day.   The schools got good drivers at a low costs.    Plus, nearly all of the drivers grew up in the community.  The school principals knew the kids as well as their families.  Heck in some cases, multiple generations of the families had gone to the same schools.  To this day, I remember this one driver - tall, athletic, blond, blue eyes, ... *@*@(   :)    V.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: gnash on February 05, 2017, 11:17:41 PM
^^^^

thank you for your personal insight into the young bus driver phenomenon! i was also curious about the student driver at first, but got used to it quickly enough. i figured it was what you described, student work.

heh, i can imagine your tall bl/bl bus driver quite clearly. lucky you! we had a nice older woman that got a kick out of driving fast over speed bumps so the kids in the back would go flying. that was fun! it's so weird how they didn't have seatbelts in busses back then, and don't know if they do now.

the movie tho.... well, it would be a spoiler so i'll wait till you see it. i did cry during a couple of scenes. it was "triggery" for me. :(

i will say that i liked the look of the actor playing nathan very much. he seemed to mature as the film progressed, which was weird. and the actor playing roy with his longer hair did well to capture the seventies look, at least.



Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: foreverinawe on February 08, 2017, 07:44:38 AM
just now watching this movie...

add to that:

brokeback mountain has kate mara as junior
dream boy has rooney mara as evelyn

i thought she looked familiar!

Jimmy, as you can tell from my (too) many posts, I was quite taken with Dream Boy. I realize I was biased in overlooking its faults, but I felt that emotionally, it was virtually the equivalent of Brokeback Mountain. Yes, I grieved for the boys.

I would really like to know how you felt about the movie.

   ~~~fia
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: gattaca on February 08, 2017, 03:32:58 PM
OK I just finished "Dream Boy" - thoughts
1) The music is haunting.
2) The scenery and southern nature are correct for the time period.  So many shots look similar to where I grew up
3) As stated earlier, the use of mature, responsible students as drivers was quite common up until sometime in the late 1980s or 1990's.  All of my drivers were students from the high school
4) It became quickly apparent that the story has multiple elements and themes: 
a lonely student who is struggling with being gay,
an incestuous and sexually abusive father,
a loving mother who really knew the truth about her son,   
religious driven condemnation and bigotry,
homophobia and raw hatred of homosexuals,
...

** SPOILERS ON **

Each of the above elements is in both in BBM and Dream Boy...with the exception of the sexually abusive father.  We know Jack's father was abusive but I do not believe he was sexually abusive to Jack.  In Dream Boy, there is no doubt.   From the first time I saw Nathan react to his father I knew his dad was sexually abusing him.  The mother confirmed that easily and Nathan's degree of "experience" with homosexual love making was also confirmed by Roy when he asked "how did he learn to screw like that?"  For Nathan, the abuse was unending.  The scene where he rigs up trip wires  in his room to stop his father from reaching him in bed was harrowing as was him preferring to sleep on the floor on the other side of the bed.   The abuse must have been happening for many, many years.   

As for the ending, it got convoluted quickly. How did Burke returned to find and then rape Nathan with either Roy or Randy noticing?   Did Burke really have to kill Nathan after he raped him?   We saw that whole thread not tied up at all.  Did Burke get away with raping and murdering Nathan?   I also noticed early on when they were walking, that scene where Burke removed it shirt, saying it way too hot and then he looked at Nathan with that stare saying...do you like what you see?

I believe the Nathan's return is an attempt at a spiritual resolution between Roy and Nathan.  The film set us up with stories the boys told about ghosts and tragedies in that abandoned plantation home.   The final scene with Roy driving the bus and Nathan not being and then being there is a reflection of how he really misses Nathan.  He's just remembering that first glance, those early smiles. 

The film is a hard tragedy on many levels. For me, the sexually abusive element is more upsetting than what we saw in BBM.   Maybe that's why Lee let us guess about Jack's childhood based on his father's short interaction in the kitchen with Ennis and Jack's mother.  General abuse is one thing, sexual abuse is on a whole other level.  Nathan's father deserved to be hanged by his nuts until they fell off.   I also noticed Nathan's Mom, left her husband after her only reason for staying, to protect Nathan, was gone.

V.

Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: foreverinawe on February 09, 2017, 07:02:11 AM
Vince,

Thanks for your comments. For what it's worth, the book author, Jim Grimsley, told a German audience (at the World Premier of Dream Boy, 2008, in Berlin) that he himself was the victim of paternal sexual abuse as a child, although "not as bad as Nathan".

As to the rape, I don't think Burke had far to go to get to Nathan. After shining the flashlight on Roy and Nathan, Burke and Randy left that room quickly, but a minute later, so did Roy. That left Nathan alone in the dark. Burke returned alone, and carried Nathan (maybe he knocked him senseless with the flashlight?) up the stairs to the rape room. Some people said they thought Burke was sexually attracted to Nathan all along. If that was so, I certainly didn't catch it. I thought Burke disdained Nathan from the beginning, shown especially in the swimming hole scene. So why rape him? I thought the rape was an act of contempt, the violent assertion of superiority. And the slugging with the chair arm was Burke's uncontrolled hatred for himself succumbing to sex with a male. (I doubted that Burke intended to kill, but who knows....)

Did Burke get away with raping and killing? Maybe. But also, wasn't Roy's reputation ruined (two people had seen him fellating Nathan)? Interesting questions. Roy knew Burke was a murderer, but Burke knew Roy was a homosexual (and had a witness to the fellatio, Randy.) So they each had devastating information about the other. Morals aside, maybe they both had enough social sense to just keep quiet. (And Burke intimidated Randy enough to keep him quiet, too.)

Nathan's return to say Goodbye: pure inspiration, I thought. It's what Ennis and Jack never had. Was it just imagined by Roy? Well, I don't think so. I don't dabble in the supernatural, but every now and then things happen that I cannot explain, and sometimes they are miraculous. This is one I love to believe. Something infused Nathan with the power to come back to let Roy know their love was absolutely real, and incredibly it only took one word: "Nathan!" I have never read such profound thoughts in faces before. James Bolton lifted Jim Grimsley's story to ineffablity with this scene.

   (I've written about this previously, but just in case: )

   http://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=1423.msg2618511#msg2618511

Nathan's mother. Everything you said about her is absolutely true. Her silent departure from the house and from the lives of her husband and son was noblity and heartbreak among ruins. Once again the parallels with Brokeback Mountain appear, in the grieving mothers.

Thanks again, Vince.

   ~~~fia
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: gattaca on February 09, 2017, 03:11:01 PM
... Some people said they thought Burke was sexually attracted to Nathan all along. If that was so, I certainly didn't catch it. I thought Burke disdained Nathan from the beginning, shown especially in the swimming hole scene. So why rape him? I thought the rape was an act of contempt, the violent assertion of superiority. And the slugging with the chair arm was Burke's uncontrolled hated for himself succumbing to sex with a male. (I doubted that Burke intended to kill, but who knows....)

Did Burke get away with raping and killing? Maybe. But also, wasn't Roy's reputation ruined (two people had seen him fellating Nathan)? Interesting questions. Roy knew Burke was a murderer, but Burke knew Roy was a homosexual (and had a witness to the fellatio, Randy.) So they each had devastating information about the other. Morals aside, maybe they both had enough social sense to just keep quiet. (And Burke intimidated Randy enough to keep him quiet, too.)

Nathan's return to say Goodbye: pure inspiration, I thought. It's what Ennis and Jack never had. Was it just imagined by Roy? Well, I don't think so. I don't dabble in the supernatural, but every now and then things happen that I cannot explain, and sometimes they are miraculous.
   ~~~fia

Spoilers ON

I think there was some hint of Burke's attraction to Nathan in that scene I mentioned where they were hiking and Burke took off his shirt and said something about how hot it was and then gave Nathan "that look" like "do you like what you see"... I felt there was something definitely happening there with Burke's intent...maybe he was testing Nathan, not sure.

I agree, there may have been a quid pro quo among the boys since Burke and Randy had Roy on the blowjob. Roy had Burke on raping and killing Nathan.  I also got the feeling that maybe Burke and Randy were perhaps more than "buds"  The night they went all went camping, Roy and Nathan paired up as did Burke and Randy.  While I was watching that play out, I thought there's no way Burke and Randy could not have heard the noises from Roy and Nathan as their tents were so close but nothing was ever actually proven on that point.

While Burke did punch Nathan repeatedly, I felt if there was extreme hate he would have beat him bloody and left him for dead.  BUT instead he rapes Nathan, who is obviously conscious through the rape.  Burke really appears to enjoy the sex while he's penetrating Nathan and I guess you noticed the "spit-lube" move.   It's only after Burke ejaculates that he appears to have an OMG, what am I doing panic.  For me, it is hard to discern hate from panic.. which may have driven him to murder.  Remember they said something about "it happened the way Burke said..." which to me implied the quid pro quo above among the boys.

V.

Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: gnash on February 09, 2017, 03:41:29 PM
^^ ahh, vincent... i saw it the same way too... it's possible burke could have been a jealous buddy of roy's. they were straight, yet maybe they fooled around and roy found someone else that caught his fancy, some one more tender than themselves, a true substitute. i'll post more in a sec, i wrote it last night but didn't post it because i was half alseep and it needed a proof.

Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: gnash on February 09, 2017, 04:00:47 PM
ahh, the book ends differently, i found this on wikipedia:

"The book has the boys meeting in the yard of Roy's church, running together into the woods to talk things over, then and deciding to run away together since Roy has been seen sucking Nathan by both Burke and Randy, and both boys will surely will be outed to their families and the whole community. The book ends with: "They hear the voices of people searching for them in the woods. They stand and go. They never look back."

the only running away together that i can see is if roy killed himself, if nathan was indeed murdered. but the concept of certainty surrounding the outing of roy simply because he was seen by burke and randy is a bit preposterous. men keep secrets like that, especially HS boys. pacts are formed in backyard tents all the time... it really is, and i suspect, in rural communities, a secret that is best left untold.

so based on those last lines, i feel the book indicates that roy does die and is reunited with nathan in the otherworld. if that's the case, then i feel the movie missed its mark. after the barn reunion, and their warm embrace, the camera could have pulled back to reveal a suicide note, or perhaps panned up to show, from the rafters, a hanging, looped rope.

well, there you go, sorry for the long-winded post.... thank you so much for recommending the movie, ~fia!! 

Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: foreverinawe on February 09, 2017, 05:26:59 PM
Jimmy and Vincent and others who are interested,

IMDB has a message board for each of their reviews. Someone recently posted a question about Dream Boy on its board, and here's how I replied:
----------------------------------------------

Hi A------,

I think you are actually trying to ask "What did the author intend to convey?" That question cannot be answered. The author -- i.e., the screenwriter, James Bolton -- only implied some possibilities. Don't be angry with him, that's a common literary device, often used to get the reader (or audience) to get into the spirit of the story by rousing their feelings. It works (if it didn't, we wouldn't be writing here.)

We can go back to the original book by Jim Grimsley, but we must keep in mind that Bolton only used the book as a starting point for his screenplay. Bolton absolutely re-wrote the ending to suit himself.

In the book we are privy to Nathan's delirious thoughts as he lies beaten on the floor. He imagines he sees the hole in his own skull, then he sees Roy, then his Dad, then others (the sheriff).

He imagines, "He will shake his head to free himself. He has practiced the gesture for most of his life, he will find it easy. When he does, he will be in the present again, and he will be awake, and Dad will be nowhere near. He will shake his head, and sit up in the attic, and find Roy."

(The screenplay is essentially the same up to this point, except that we don't hear Nathan's thoughts. But soon, movie Nathan is walking to find Roy.)

In the book, he finds him at the church, and after a somewhat stunned reunion, the two of them disappear into the woods. Other church members try to follow them, but fall behind. Finally Nathan and Roy sit down to rest.

"They keep very quiet, listening for sounds of pursuit. Roy slides an arm around Nathan's shoulders. Nathan feels all the reticence with which the gesture is performed, then sighs and leans against Roy. "You were dead," Roy says, but his tone is more of confiding than disapproving. "I saw you."

"I know."

So now we see that book author Jim Grimsley uses the same literary device as James Bolton to draw his readers into the story. Both dip a toe into the supernatural, with different results (Grimsley: Nathan lives, Bolton: Nathan dies).

And both writers leave it up to you to interpret their story however you like.
----------------------------------------------

Imdb just today posted a notice that they will discontinue their message boards soon. Too bad.

   ~~~fia
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: gnash on February 09, 2017, 10:56:06 PM
fia,

your post really makes me want to read the book now. i love the reference to the head shaking. the things you have to do to get back to reality, or to escape it and free yourself. how sad the notion of nathan having to do the gesture for so long that he finds it easy to do.

you WERE dead.

i know.


i agree, the supernatural element is nice here. i like to think they are both together in spirit now. i'm not so creeped out by scary stories or ghost stories. i just don't like gore.  :">

in the past, i've done a few "supernatural" bbm slash stories... one is called i love you, goodbye. (http://gnashsang.livejournal.com/22845.html) it's sorta like the ending of dream boy, as dead jack is able to visit ennis one last time.



oh wow, how unfortunate about the IMDB message boards. why on earth would they put an end to it?? sigh... hopefully the messages that are already there remain in place.

Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: foreverinawe on February 10, 2017, 07:04:08 AM
your post really makes me want to read the book now.

I got my copy from ABEBooks, $3.78, including shipping. The book was hardcover, absolutely new.

https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=grimsley&bi=h&sortby=17&tn=dream+boy (https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=grimsley&bi=h&sortby=17&tn=dream+boy)

Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: gnash on February 10, 2017, 03:50:39 PM
^^^ wow, such a deal. i'll look for it. maybe the book will validate some of the concepts/ideas i dreamed up when analyzing the movie.

i still think burke and roy and randy where... curiously healthy. :)
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: gnash on February 13, 2017, 06:31:25 AM
look what i found in a review about dream boy... an excerpt:

The chief attribute to Dream Boy, however, is Max Roeg in the role of Roy. Max is the 25-year old, British-born son of actress Theresa Russell of Black Widow and Spider-Man 3 fame (whom he resembles closely) and director Nicolas Roeg, and Dream Boy marks his feature film debut. Max gives a sensitive yet strong, assured performance, which is all the more impressive for his authentic-sounding Southern accent. Anyone tempted to think British actors can easily master Southern US accents needs to listen to the London cast recording of Andrew Lloyd Webber's Whistle Down the Wind, and learn first-hand how nearly impossible it can be! Roeg, Bender and Dream Boy will more than likely haunt you.

https://moviedearest.blogspot.com/2010/04/reverends-reviews-easter-threesome.html


so, max roeg is the son of theresa russell! well whaddya know... plus, he's a british actor doing an american accent playing a closted gay guy... sound familiar?

i still thing stephan was the more interesting actor, tho.

also, roy's mom was played by rickie lee jones! :D 

so many surprises in this movie.







Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on February 13, 2017, 07:14:52 AM
so, max roeg is the son of theresa russell [and Nicholas Roeg]!

Another British acting/movie/theater dynasty!

The Redgraves are the most famous, or well known, I guess. I was interested to learn just recently that the actor playing the palace pastry chef in the series Victoria on Masterpiece also has a very famous actor father: Ben Kingsley!

Sorry if this was OT. ...
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: foreverinawe on February 13, 2017, 07:28:24 AM
look what i found in a review about dream boy

 Roeg, Bender and Dream Boy will more than likely haunt you.

Oh boy, will I say Amen to that!

Reluctantly, I note that was a 2010 review. Those young, fresh faces were simply beautiful.
I wish they could last forever, but ones and zeros will have to do.

   ~~~fia
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on February 13, 2017, 10:19:21 AM
Oh boy, will I say Amen to that!

Reluctantly, I note that was a 2010 review. Those young, fresh faces were simply beautiful.
I wish they could last forever, but ones and zeros will have to do.

   ~~~fia

That's the beautiful thing about a movie. They will be fresh and beautiful forever.  :)
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: gnash on February 13, 2017, 04:09:22 PM

^^^

i agree.. youth and beauty locked in a capsule of time. i think of heath.

Another British acting/movie/theater dynasty!

The Redgraves are the most famous, or well known, I guess. I was interested to learn just recently that the actor playing the palace pastry chef in the series Victoria on Masterpiece also has a very famous actor father: Ben Kingsley!

Sorry if this was OT. ...

i love that ben kingsley has a son... he's such an intense actor.

oh, he has more than one:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/9991850/Sir-Ben-Kingsley-my-Hollywood-actress-mother-was-jealous-of-my-success.html

talk about an acting dynasty.. his has some drama to it as well, it seems.

i wonder which son you saw playing the palace pastry chef... edmund or ferdinand?

i'd post a pic here of the two of them (http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/cast-member-ferdinand-kingsley-and-brother-edmund-kingsley-attend-an-picture-id455993770?s=594x594) but i think it has a © symbol on it.





Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on February 13, 2017, 04:26:09 PM
i wonder which son you saw playing the palace pastry chef... edmund or ferdinand?

It's Ferdinand as the palace pastry chef in Victoria. I double checked at IMDb.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: gnash on February 13, 2017, 05:15:58 PM
ok, he's the one on the left, i think.

Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on February 13, 2017, 07:11:41 PM
It's Ferdinand as the palace pastry chef in Victoria. I double checked at IMDb.

ok, he's the one on the left, i think.

Difficult to tell. In Victoria he has facial hair, as he does in his pic at IMDb. But I think you're probably correct.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: gnash on February 17, 2017, 02:59:40 AM
seeing the kingsley brothers reminds me of a movie that featured two dark and swarthy brothers... from wikipedia:

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/93/Good-morning-babylon-movie-poster-1987.jpg)

Good Morning, Babylon

(Italian: Good morning Babilonia) is an Italian film directed by Paolo and Vittorio Taviani in 1987. It was screened out of competition at the 1987 Cannes Film Festival.

The film follows the story of two Italian brothers who emigrate to America and find work as set designers for D.W. Griffith's silent film epic Intolerance (1916).


trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWSgkY9J4bA


it shows you a bit of hollywood history, plus it's got a love story too. there's a line about shadowy mountains and snowflakes that's just too good. i highly recommend this film!
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on February 17, 2017, 09:48:59 AM
^^^

And now you can see those elephants, as an homage to Intolerance, at the Hollywood & Highland Center!

(http://www.yesterland.com/images-caladventure/elephants_hollywoodhighland2002ww.jpg)
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: gnash on February 17, 2017, 12:14:49 PM
yaaassss! there they are! did you see the movie? i found it fascinating, a peek inside the set designers of yesteryear.

Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on February 18, 2017, 09:30:19 AM

Yes, I saw it at the Beverly Center in 1986!
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: gnash on February 18, 2017, 06:56:23 PM
Yes, I saw it at the Beverly Center in 1986!

glad you saw it! if you were a snowflake and i was a mountain, i'd hold you in my shadowy crevasses to keep you from melting...  :-* or something like that. you know, i saw BBM at the beverly center, at least one time... my friend worked at Le Sport Sac... which we called le ball sac haha.. :D

speaking of which... did you know that sandra bullock rearranged spells round ball sack? leonardo dicaprio spells out periodic anal odor. don't ask how i know, lol.

/OT    :laugh:
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on February 19, 2017, 10:39:40 AM
 :o
! ! !
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Paul029 on May 18, 2017, 09:47:00 AM
(http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp201/rasalgethi_photo/Movies/WOTW%20Poster%202_zps1hpcovi2.png) (http://s412.photobucket.com/user/rasalgethi_photo/media/Movies/WOTW%20Poster%202_zps1hpcovi2.png.html)

Bathed in sensuous wide-screen Technicolor, Douglas Sirk's 1956 film Written on the Wind is about the fall of a Texan oil dynasty through the excesses of the spoilt, wildly dysfunctional son and daughter of oil magnate Jasper Hadley (Robert Keith).

His son Kyle (Robert Stack), a high-flying alcoholic playboy, marries the seemingly-principled advertising secretary Lucy Moore (Lauren Bacall) working for Hadley Oil in New York, who is secretly loved by Kyle’s poor but hardworking childhood best friend Mitch Wayne (Rock Hudson), a level-headed geologist who works for the Hadley empire in Texas.

Mitch in turn is pursued with a lusty passion by Kyle's nymphomaniac and alcoholic sister, Marylee (Dorothy Malone, who won a Best Supporting Actress Oscar for her scenery-shredding performance), who sleeps with redneck oil-derrick workers and gas station attendants to irritate her father.

The interactions of this all-star acting quartet is described in the trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=862Yc-cwQEY) as “The Most Revealing Study of Human Emotions Ever Attempted on the Screen.”

The film itself is a flashback to the eventual tragedy towards which the family is headed. Inner demons are revealed as lives intertwine, passions intensify and neuroses pile up.

Deceit, suspicion, alcoholism, nymphomania and hints of incest and homosexuality combine under Sirk's control to present the epic scale of the Hadley downfall with an emotional intensity carried to baroque operatic extremes.

Written on the Wind’s highly-stylised artificial appearance, dramatic framing and lighting, ridiculous rear-projections, painted back-drops and flamboyant (and parody-free) performances combine to make it a deliciously “trashy” and wonderfully subversive film.

The film’s Oscar-nominated title song (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTZ42kNdn1E) (lyrics by Sammy Cahn, music by Victor Young), sung by The Four Aces, is included in my treasured (and now vintage) copy of their Decca Records 1956 vinyl LP, Hits from Hollywood, released in Australia by Festival Records.

Interestingly, Roger Ebert also considers Written on the Wind is worthy of being called “great.” In his insightful 1998 review (http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/great-movie-written-on-the-wind-1956) of the film in his Great Movies list, he describes it as “a perverse and wickedly funny melodrama. ... Shocking behavior is treated with passionate solemnity, while parody burbles beneath.”

The Criterion Collection release can be watched online at Veoh.com here (http://www.veoh.com/watch/v91872251zgq3b5Qt).

Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Paul029 on May 18, 2017, 09:48:56 AM
Written on the Wind is a film I’ve loved since I first saw it on its Australian release, when I was smitten by Dorothy Malone (especially in her witness box scene near the end, not only for her costume but for her multitude of expressions as she struggles with her conscience).

(http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp201/rasalgethi_photo/Movies/marylee%2012_zpspsctq36p.png) (http://s412.photobucket.com/user/rasalgethi_photo/media/Movies/marylee%2012_zpspsctq36p.png.html)
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on May 18, 2017, 10:27:23 AM
Hmm. Red-neck oil derrick workers and gas station attendants? Could be hot. ...

 ;D
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on May 18, 2017, 12:14:11 PM
[...] I was smitten by Dorothy Malone [...]

Smitten on the Wind!

Paul, if you can view this youtube, here's Dorothy winning her Academy Award for this film:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHl9D9I0Svw

If you've seen the movie many times, have you noticed the little mistake in it?  There's a shot of
Dorothy and Rock Hudson, or was it Robert Stack, from outside, looking at them through a window.
The camera moves through the window to the interior. As it does so, there's the noticeable shadow
of a microphone boom as it passes through.

(Because of technology, sometimes these mistakes are now getting corrected when the films get
redone for whatever medium. Should they? Should Alma Jr.'s microphone cord be erased. for example?)
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on May 18, 2017, 12:46:03 PM
(Because of technology, sometimes these mistakes are now getting corrected when the films get
redone for whatever medium. Should they? Should Alma Jr.'s microphone cord be erased. for example?)

Doesn't bother me either way because I never notice them.  :(

Sometimes I notice continuity issues (in TV as well as movies), but not often.  :(
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Paul029 on May 21, 2017, 11:11:08 PM
Smitten on the Wind!

 :D

Quote from: Lyle (Mooska)
Paul, if you can view this youtube, here's Dorothy winning her Academy Award for this film:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHl9D9I0Svw
Thanks, Lyle.

Quote from: Lyle (Mooska)
If you've seen the movie many times, have you noticed the little mistake in it?  There's a shot of
Dorothy and Rock Hudson, or was it Robert Stack, from outside, looking at them through a window.
The camera moves through the window to the interior. As it does so, there's the noticeable shadow
of a microphone boom as it passes through.

When Mitch and Lucy drive off on their way to town (Mitch to drop Lucy off at the doctor’s, Mitch to visit his father), Kyle and Marylee watch them through the curtains of an upstairs window. The camera then moves closer to Kyle and his sister at the window, and follows them briefly as they move back into the room. There’s a quick cut and we see them now from the camera inside the room. As Marylee taunts her brother and they argue violently there’s a long stationary shadow stretching across on the wall behind them. It’s cast by one of the window’s horizontal wooden transoms, out of shot. Perhaps that was what you thought was a microphone boom. Nothing unusual happens as the camera passes through the window.

There’s a very noticeable mistake, though, at the start of the Kyle/Lucy wedding anniversary party sequence earlier in the film.

As guests arrive a high crane shot slowly swoops in from outside the Hadley mansion and pans towards one of its large ground floor windows. Towards the end of the shot the camera gradually zooms in closer to the window, peering inside to show party guests already in the room. When it gets very close, a large shadow begins to appear on the right side of the window frame, and then onto its internal wooden shutter. The moving shadow is created by the camera attached to the crane.

(http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp201/rasalgethi_photo/Movies/Shadow_zps9pixcmar.png) (http://s412.photobucket.com/user/rasalgethi_photo/media/Movies/Shadow_zps9pixcmar.png.html)

Quote from: Lyle (Mooska)
(Because of technology, sometimes these mistakes are now getting corrected when the films get
redone for whatever medium. Should they?
Altering (“correcting”) a director’s work to make it “better” is reprehensible. The only “re-doing” which should occur is restoration to return a film as close to its original state as possible and doesn’t include removal of elements in the original film stock simply because they might constitute a mistake.

A parallel can be drawn in the case of visual artworks, where even well-intentioned attempts at improving a work can have drastic consequences, as occurred in 2012 with Cecilia Gimenez's botched attempt (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/24/world/europe/botched-restoration-of-ecce-homo-fresco-shocks-spain.html) to “restore” a Spanish fresco of Christ. The work would have been better left alone, to preserve what was left of the artist’s work, or attended to by professional restorers.
 
Mr Bean’s hilarious restoration (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118689/mediaviewer/rm3359441152) of the oil painting Arrangement in Grey and Block No 1 (“Whistler’s Mother”) in Bean, is another example of a well-intentioned attempt to correct a mistake, in this case brought about by his application of lacquer thinners to the painting surface after he’d accidentally  rubbed damaging ink onto the woman’s face.

Although these are extreme examples, the same applies to film. Changing the orginal to correct perceived errors affects the work. A similar thing happens when B&W films are “colorized” to cater for asssumed audience expectations.

Quote from: Lyle (Mooska)
Should Alma Jr.'s microphone cord be erased, for example?)
Tampering with the film raises issues about its authenticity, and casts doubt on the director’s ability to determine when the film is acceptable for release. I guess that this would be solely up to Ang Lee but, in the end, the inclusion of such an unintentional element through what could be called human error shouldn’t negatively affect the film’s quality. As in the case of the shadow in Written on the Wind, it’s simply something which occurred during the film-making process, and as such should be retained.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on May 22, 2017, 12:37:20 PM

You have seen Written on the Wind many times!

Altering (“correcting”) a director’s work to make it “better” is reprehensible. The only “re-doing” which should occur is restoration to return a film as close to its original state as possible and doesn’t include removal of elements in the original film stock simply because they might constitute a mistake.

I agree with you on this idea.  They NEVER should've made a widescreen version of GWTW in the 1950's. They even ruined one of the film negative
sequences to do so involving long shots of the train station area. (Then again, decades later with computer technology they were able to reconstruct
that problem.)

Thoughts on this:  In the case of three strip technicolor they shot the film on three separate strips of film, which the process implies, and then
aligned each strip together to form the print negative. It was never perfect because of the process used at the time, meaning you couldn't align
the three strips 100%.  With computer technology they've been able to do that and more.  When they did one of those restorations of The Wizard
of Oz, the color and prints were so clear that you could see the wires on the flying monkeys and some holding up large flowers etc.  It was very
distracting and it was easy to use the computer technology to remove them. What hadn't been seen before was highlighted.

Unfortunately or fortunately in some cases, over the years movies are changing from their original showings all the time. The things they couldn't
do then can be done now, like eliminating the color dots that indicated a reel change was coming. Something digital can eliminate. Some friends and
I recently attended a 75th Anniversary screening of Bambi.  It's not something readily noticeable, but there was always one scene after the fire where
a mama Possum brought her child out of the water on to land and started licking him. On the third lick the child possum vanishes. That was corrected
when we saw this presentation and may have been years ago.

One reason, I guess, for all of this is that most people love movies and movies at the start were not ever thought of as something to last, nor did
anyone think you'd be able to watch them at home on TV and then own them yourself on video devices.

Thanks for your Written on the Wind stories and facts!

Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on May 22, 2017, 01:45:27 PM
They NEVER should've made a widescreen version of GWTW in the 1950's.

I never knew they did that.

What I did know is that sometime probably when I was a teenager, I saw a really bad print in an old theater in my home town. When the film was first shown on TV (and I remember what a Big Deal that was, a two-night special) when I was in college, I was shocked to discover that there was more of the film than I'd seen in the theater,
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on May 23, 2017, 11:40:04 AM

Jeff, some more info about the GWTW thing:

From a GWTW online site:

GWTW was filmed in a screen aspect ratio of 1.37:1, as all other Hollywood movies of its time were. In the 1950's, to accommodate the introduction of widescreen films, the picture was screened in an aspect ratio of 1.75:1 by simply matting the top and bottom of the picture in the projector gate. Unfortunately, during this re-issue, five shots were optically re-framed to fit this process, forever altered from the film's original state. These include the first and last pull-back shots, the shot of Scarlett running down the driveway of Tara at the end of the first scene, and the shot of Melanie running over a hillock to greet Ashley returning after the war. For its 1967 reissue, Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer decided to create "widescreen" 70mm prints by cropping almost 40 percent of the top and bottom of the original image, making a 2.21:1 image. An illustration of what this looked like can be seen here, a comparison of the original frame and the 70mm chop job.

(http://www.widescreenmuseum.com/special/gwtw-3.jpg)

Fortunately, all television showings and all home video releases since then have used the original screen aspect ratio of 1.37:1, or only slightly cropped for television's 1.33:1 image.

___________________

It seems to me that films are always being tampered with. When MGM released GWTW in that 70mm version it was also in Metrocolor and not Technicolor. I didn't know about all these framing things and widescreen and 70mm and different color processes when I first saw the film when I was in college.  It turns out I saw a Metrocolor print and Metrocolor is a lot more stark and blue-ish than technicolor and I didn't care for it, especially on hindsight. Also, when I first saw it there was no intermission!  I knew there was one and kept wondering when it was supposed to occur!

I think people mostly just think that a film is made and then that's how it is.  Over the years I've learned in many ways that's not the case at all. And since I got up two hours earlier than I ordinarily do, I'll babble with five examples:

1.  --The GWTW example above is one. Besides some revival theatre showings of GWTW that were faded prints and looked sepia and had missing reels, I attended an AMPAS event they held in the early 80's. It was a two-day affair. They showed GWTW on Friday night, Selznick's personal print, by the way, and the next day held a several hour long seminar on the making of the film. We saw several entire screen tests and comparisons of the different color releases (Technicolor and Metrocolor that I mentioned) and how special effects were done, different sound manifestations and a myriad of things. Some people who worked on the film were actually there.  A lot of these things had never been shown or seen publicly at that time. It was, after all, before the internet and mass media, and at the dawn of vhs.  There was one screen test they showed of Paulette Goddard, who by all accounts would have gotten the role had Vivien Leigh not appeared, but the presenter lamented that the soundtrack for her screen test had been lost. It was exciting years later when I saw some program or documentary about GWTW and they showed that screen test, with the sound! It had been found!

2.  --AMPAS had a screening of The King and I (ten years ago was it?) where they showed it, the first time ever, in the aspect ratio it actually had been filmed in. I don't want to say something I don't recall properly, but...    Okay I just looked up some info to see if anything was online about it. There's this:

Paul Mayer: AMPAS and 20th Century Fox will be screening a new restoration of The King and I at the Samuel Goldwyn Theatre in Beverly Hills, Friday, August 20, 2004 at 8:00pm. They claim this screening will be the first public showing of the film in its original aspect ratio, the print having been struck from the 55mm 0-neg. A new 4-track Dolby Digital soundtrack has also been created from the original 4-track masters. I'm planning on driving down for this--a rare chance to see a film that both of my parents worked on. And to see it on a big screen in such a great theatre too!

If you're interested in tech geeks talking about these kinds of things, aspect ratios and resolutions and on and on--here's the link:
http://www.film-tech.com/ubb/f8/t003483.html

3.  --In 1994 when they restored MY FAIR LADY and had a theatrical release, I totally realized the difference between 35mm prints of a film and 70mm.
Not too long before that I had seen a 35mm version in a theatre. The restored 60mm version was so breathtaking to me that I believe I went to see it at least three times in the theatre. Maybe 5 times.

4.  --This example shocked the hell out of me.  I had never seen The Godfather when it came out in 1972 and always thought I should have seen it in a movie theatre instead of on TV by way of VHS on a pan and scan version. So, when Paramount had a theatrical release of it and showed it at the Chinese Theatre (which has a brief cameo in the film when they show a Hollywood vista) I went to see it there. I have never been one of those people who are huge fans of this film and it's one of their favorite films, it's too long for my tastes, and a bit over-indulgent, but on a film making level I appreciate it and the excitement it incurred upon release for some of it's famous scenes is not to be denied.  Which is why I attended AMPAS's screening of it in the 1990's when they were showing all of their Best Picture winners to celebrate their 75th Anniversary. At the event they said they were showing a print, the way audiences saw it when it was released in 1972. It was an archive print made in 1972. I won't have the exact specifications and wording, but apparently all of the prints were originally made by a technicolor Kodak processing company in Hollywood that closed down. Even though new prints can be processed from the original elements, this processing company's product looked slightly, if that's the word, different for reasons tech geeks could explain, but I cannot. In any event, I didn't think it would be much of a difference, but I was bowled over when they showed the film. It had a much more appealing nature to it than any VHS, TV, or the public screening I saw at the Chinese before. It was my favorite viewing of the film ever and I'm glad I saw it. Now, with computers so influencing the film industry, I wonder if it's possible to digitally duplicate that look from existing film prints. Probably is and maybe they already did.

5.  --The Sting is my last example of films looking different or our perception of things.  This is one of my favorite films and one of the first I bought on vhs and subsequently dvd. People online kept wanting it to be released in widescreen, the way it was in theatres, and eventually it was, but in looking at different discussions online I discovered something completely interesting. The director of The Sting, George Roy Hill, conceived the film as though it had actually been made in the 1930's. That's one reason they got out the old 1930's logo that Universal used then for the beginning of the film. However, George Roy Hill also wanted to shoot the film in the 35mm look of films made in the 30's and 40's.
(The square box look of all 30's films. I believe you know what I mean.) That's the way he wanted to have the film released into theatres. I believe I recall that he wanted it to look like a picture you'd come across on tv on the late show that makes you stay up all night watching it. Universal, of course, wanted no such thing. So, the film was released in widescreen. I don't recall ever reading the details of the filming, but George Roy Hill actually filmed it in the format he wanted it to be. But, like the widescreen GWTW of the 1950's the film would be shown in widescreen by "matting the top and bottom of the picture in the projector gate." Hill knew this, I'm assuming, so he directed it like it was to be seen in widescreen so that when the film was matted and shown that way, no one was deprived of anything he wanted you to see. No foreheads cut off or props disappearing too soon out of view. What this all means, though, is that when the film was sown on TV and first put onto vhs, all that was done was that the matting was removed from the top and bottom of the picture, meaning what audiences are seeing is actually more picture, not less, than is usually the case. There is no pan & scan because the entire picture is there and "more" on the top of the screen and bottom. When I was reading people talking about this I was confused, but eventually "got it." I don't know of any other film like this, although there probably is some. So The Sting has always looked good on TV (when we all had square box TV's) because none of the picture was lost and we were actually seeing MORE picture.  Many were accustomed to wanting their favorite films to be put on dvd's in their widescreen formats as seen in theatres, so you'd get the full picture which was usually cropped on either side, so when some were trying to say that you were actually getting LESS picture by doing that with The Sting, it made no sense, even though the widescreen is what was shown in theatres. As a film tech site says, "The Sting was shot open matte in order to evoke the feeling of 1930s cinema, which had a 4:3 or "Academy standard" Aspect Ratio.  Knowing that the film would be cropped by less-aware projectionists, it was shot to work in both the original Academy and standard 35mm ratios as well as respecting the cropping margins for broadcast." It makes sense to me now, did I explain it properly so it makes sense to you?
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on May 23, 2017, 12:18:03 PM
Thanks, Lyle.

Turner Classics is showing GWTW one night this week, but I forget which one.

I've seen that Paulette Goddard screen test with sound somewhere before. The world would be a different place if she had played Scarlett. I like Paulette, but in the two period films I've seen her in, something seemed a bit "off" to me, like she just wasn't right for period pictures. Loved her in The Women, of course!

Incidentally, TCM showed Whatever Happened to Baby Jane? last night. I want to see it again, but I skipped it last night because I didn't want to miss Lucifer. I picked that sexy devil Tom Ellis over the Grand Guignol-ish Bette Davis.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on May 26, 2017, 11:24:00 AM
Written on the Wind

Paul, you might like this.  I was watching a video on youtube,
"Labor Day 1965 at Rock Hudson's house." It's home movie
footage that Roddy McDowall took.  There's lots of glimpses
of Hollywood celebrities, even Natalie Schaefer appears briefly,
this was when she was doing Gilligan's Island!

The part you might find interesting is at about the 2:15 mark. The person
who posted this footage (it's all silent) says, Rock and Betty (Lauren Bacall)
are reciting the lines from "Written on the Wind": "What a man says to a
woman- what a woman says to a man- are words too often written on the wind."


Indeed they are!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y52Zvc3yG2E

Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Paul029 on May 27, 2017, 03:55:26 AM
The part you might find interesting is at about the 2:15 mark. The person
who posted this footage (it's all silent) says, Rock and Betty (Lauren Bacall)
are reciting the lines from "Written on the Wind": "What a man says to a
woman- what a woman says to a man- are words too often written on the wind."

Thanks so much for that, Lyle!
Their expressions when they turn to the camera and say “Written on the Wind” are priceless.  ;D

(http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp201/rasalgethi_photo/Movies/LaurenampRock_zpsoefcobof.png) (http://s412.photobucket.com/user/rasalgethi_photo/media/Movies/LaurenampRock_zpsoefcobof.png.html)

It’s wonderful that Luke has made these home movies available, a real treasure-trove of history—everyone is relaxed, unselfconscious and not at all pretentious. Scrolling through the comments was informative, too, although it was pitiful that some people couldn’t enjoy these movies for what they represent without criticizing things which were socially acceptable at the time.

Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on May 27, 2017, 11:01:56 AM

You're welcome, Paul.

And, yes, a lot of comment sections are fraught with people who feel the need
to carp and complain and criticize almost everything. I read once that some
people do it just for sport. DId you watch any of the other video from that
poster?  I knew Roddy McDowall was, in effect, a professional photographer,
he had more than one book of his work published, but I wasn't aware he'd
taken so many home movies. Although, AMPAS has a collection of Hollywood
home movies from many celebrities and has had a couple evenings where they've
shown them to audiences.

I am very glad you enjoyed it!
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Sara B on May 27, 2017, 11:32:32 AM
Very nice. And as some of the positive comments said, it all seemed so simple and low-key...
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Paul029 on May 27, 2017, 12:19:19 PM
Did you watch any of the other video from that
poster?
Yes, I did, Lyle. Great movies, and very addictive.  :)
And thanks again for the link.

Here's a couple:

Jane Fonda Tuesday Weld Anthony Perkins Rock Hudson Lauren Bacall Natalie Wood Judy Garland 1965:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJzsryffz5s

Kirk Douglas Lauren Bacall Paul Newman Lee Remick Ben Gazzara Janice Rule Malibu 1965:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MsvJHwHHQg

Among the comments, the poster, Luke Sacha, wrote that:
we're trying to raise funds for the production of a doc feature showcasing [Roddy’s silent 16mm Kodachrome movies] Here's an 8 minute sample assembly including interviews with Roddy and Kirk Douglas. Hope you find it interesting: "Hollywood 1965" Offline Assembly
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=230xIF7XOsA&t=0s

He apologizes for the “15 seconds of bars and tone at head” of the sample.  ;D
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on May 27, 2017, 01:22:45 PM
Thanks!  I missed the one at the first link!

I loved to see Suzanne Pleshette; always liked her for some reason.
(I saw her and Tom Post on together in the grocery store once.)

Knowing how many of these celebrities had health issues due to smoking,
it's disheartening to see the prevalence of it, though I remember it quite
well. It was all pervasive and almost no limit on where you could smoke.
That was something not good in "the good ol' days."
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on May 28, 2017, 03:01:30 PM
I loved to see Suzanne Pleshette; always liked her for some reason.

I did, too, Lyle, from all the way back to Disney's The Ugly Dachshund.  :D

I was very sad when she died.
Title: Re: Overlooked Films--Great films (most of) the world missed
Post by: Paul029 on February 15, 2018, 04:34:46 AM
Dorothy Malone obituary
Hollywood star who won an Oscar for her role in Written on the Wind and appeared in the TV soap Peyton Place died in Dallas, Texas on January 19, aged 92.

From The Guardian:

Although the Hollywood star Dorothy Malone appeared in only a handful of works of distinction in a fairly lengthy career, they were good enough to secure her place in film history. On those occasions when the role permitted, most notably in two flamboyant melodramas directed by Douglas Sirk, Written on the Wind (1956) and The Tarnished Angels (1957), Malone revealed what a talented performer she could be, one capable of projecting a potent blend of cynicism, sexuality and intelligence. However, she was probably most familiar to the general public as Constance MacKenzie in Peyton Place (1964-68), one of the first primetime TV soap operas.

In Written on the Wind, Malone played Marylee, an oil heiress, sister of an alcoholic playboy Kyle Hadley (Robert Stack). She’s in love with Kyle’s best friend Mitch (Rock Hudson), but he’s in love with Kyle’s pregnant wife Lucy (Lauren Bacall). Jealous, Marylee convinces Kyle that Lucy’s baby really belongs to Mitch. Her wild erotic dance to a loud mambo beat, intercut with scenes of her father’s fatal heart attack, is one of the great sequences of 1950s Hollywood melodrama. “It was a miracle that I got her to do the scene,” Sirk recalled. “She was very prudish ... I even had to watch my language. If I said, ‘This scene needs more balls’, she’d walk off the set.” Malone, upstaging even Bacall, won the best supporting actress Oscar.

Sirk reunited Malone, Hudson and Stack for The Tarnished Angels, skilfully adapted from the William Faulkner novel Pylon. Stack played a daredevil pilot performing at air shows with Malone as his neglected parachutist wife. She is the film’s fulcrum – vulnerable, naïve and yet with a fierce sexuality – caught between her disillusioned husband and a run-down alcoholic journalist (Hudson). The latter reacts towards her with a mixture of lust and pity, bragging that he “sat up half the night discussing literature and life with a beautiful, half-naked blonde.”

I’ve also seen The Tarnished Angels, of course:

(http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp201/rasalgethi_photo/Movies/thetarnishedangels_zpsjy3r2ang.png) (http://s412.photobucket.com/user/rasalgethi_photo/media/Movies/thetarnishedangels_zpsjy3r2ang.png.html)

Rock Hudson and Dorothy Malone in The Tarnished Angels


Original theatrical trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHGww9jPdLg)

Criterion review (https://criterioncast.com/reviews/blu-ray-reviews/scott-reviews-douglas-sirks-the-tarnished-angels-masters-of-cinema-blu-ray-review)

  Full Guardian obituary (https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/jan/21/dorothy-malone-obituary)