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BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN => The Impact on Society & Ourselves => Topic started by: Melisande on January 05, 2006, 09:29:41 PM

Title: Reactions to Brokeback by friends, family & audiences
Post by: Melisande on January 05, 2006, 09:29:41 PM
Did the audience laugh when Alma looked out the door? Did you go with a friend who didn't love it as much as you do? Are you still friends with that person? What's the audience reaction in Iowa City compared to that in San Francisco? What did your husband or boyfriend think of it? We love it - what about everyone else?   
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: jack on January 06, 2006, 05:47:42 AM
mixed chuckle and gasp when alma sees the kiss, followed by stunned silence as she cries and the audience realized what this is doing to her world.  mixed audience, one group of about 8 youngish gay men, a scattering of solo males, quite a few couples, generally over 40 audience.  sold out for a noon show in what i take to have been one of the smaller venues at an 18 theatre multiplex.

the thanksgiving blowup scene very well received, apparently a welcome moment of tension relief.  quietest audience in recent memory, although i was blowing my nose at intervals.  no one got up to pee or buy refreshments.  a few people clapped at the end.

people departed, as someone else said, as if leaving a funeral, talking in hushed whispers.

jack
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: waynerman on January 06, 2006, 08:08:05 AM
Here in the Kansas City metro area, BBM is showing, for now, only on four art house screens. I happened to see the film in Overland Park, Kansas, a very conservative part of the metro. I was there with my partner, and we were both surprised that there were few other gay couples evident in the sellout crowd. The audience was, by far, female. Some lesbians, to be sure, but I would say mostly straight women. The two women who sat next to me were obviously a mother and her middle-aged daughter...could be they couldn't get their husbands to go with them.

I was furious, by the way, that at this particular art house the 7:00 pm showing was held in its smallest theater, an auditorium obviously not designed for film screenings and seating only about 100. The screen in this theater is almost ridiculously small. I have seen many small, independent films on this screen and that has been fine. But is it just plan wrong to show a picture that has a advance reputation for its cinematography in such a room, on such a tiny screen. Oh, I was fuming!

Need I say, though, that soon after the film began I was so absorbed that it didn't matter that I was seeing it on a small screen?

The audience was mostly quiet throughout the picture. The humorous bits were warmly appreciated and seemed to offer some "relief" from the more serious scenes. I didn't notice any untimely sniggers or other homophobic reactions. I was very surprised, though, that there were few displays of emotion toward the end. I heard a few sniffles around me, that was all...meanwhile I was crying like a baby for what seemed like, oh, at least the last 20 minutes of the picture. My partner tends not to show emotion in movie theaters, and was quite stoic about the whole thing, though he did say he nearly broke down and wept when Willie started singing "He Was a Friend of Mine."

We sat all the way through the closing credits, as we usually do. One of the two women sitting next to my partner (there were no men sitting anywhere near us) said she couldn't wait to go out and get the soundtrack. They stayed all the way through the credits also, though most people didn't. I was very conscious of those few who were still seated as we left the auditorium. It was a lot like leaving a memorial service, I didn't want to disturb anyone who was still in a meditative or contemplative state.

Out in the lobby, a few straight, middle-aged couples who had come to the screening together were engaged in conversation. Apparently--remember, this is Kansas--they had not been previously aware that homosexuals sometimes enter into heterosexual marriages. I heard one of the women say, with sympathy, "He got married because that was the only kind of love he could have." (I think she was speaking of Ennis, though I'm not sure.)

I'm somewhat embarrassed by the length of this post, and I'm supposed to be working (!), so I'll stop here. Thank you all.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: peteinportland on January 06, 2006, 09:49:19 AM
I work as a Director of Training for a restaurant group. My position places me in many of our restaurants along the West Coast where I deal with a wide range of staff and guests. Interestingly, I have overheard several conversations about BBM.

One server is a straight woman in her mid thirties who I overheard say, "I saw this movie last night, and I can't get it out of my head. It has stuck with me like no movie I have ever seen." Of course, I asked her, "What movie?" Of course, she replied, BBM.

Another young waiter (21, I think) who is straight and a budding screen writer came up to me and one of my trainers and said, "I went with my mom to see BBM last night to see what all the fuss was about." "And?" I asked. His reply: "It is the best movie I have ever seen."

I was talking with an older couple who were guests in one of our restaurants. Probably late 50's. They told me they had just seen King Kong at the theater next door and didn't like it. I told them I wanted to see it but kept going back to see BBM. The woman said (an almost reverent look on her face), "BBM is the best movie of the year." Her husband nodded in agreement.

Another waiter in his mid 40s (straight) told me he had went home to Albuquerque for xmas. he said he and his extended family were trying to decide on a movie. "We almost went to see BBM, but my mom and I both really wanted to see that on our own without having a bunch of people with us." According to him, the rest of the extended family all had plans to see the movie.

Note, that I started none of these conversations nor asked for people's reaction. All fo this was unsolicited. Also, I have not heard this level of conversation about a movie in a long time.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: CellarDweller115 on January 06, 2006, 10:14:00 AM
Both times I've seen it, it's been in the same theater, with a mixed crowd of older/younger/straight/gay.  Reactions have remained the same.

Some laughing and gasps at Alma seeing the kiss.

Ohhhh's when Ennis receives the postcard stamped "Deceased".

Gasps when the bashing scene takes place.

Sniffles when Ennis removes the jacket from Jack's closet and hugs it.



I took my mother to the Monday viewing after Christmas.  She loved it.

I took 5 of my friends to the Monday viewing after New Year's.  They also loved it.  I was worried about one friend in particular.  (Tina)  She is harsh on all films she watches.  Hated "Titanic", hated "Pearl Harbor", was disappointed with "Walk The Line".

She called me the next day to thank me for taking her to Brokeback, said it was one of the best films she had seen, and called a few people to recommend it to them.

Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: MSPJeff on January 06, 2006, 11:40:48 AM
Having seen it eight times (so far ::) ), I've found recently I've kept one eye on the movie, and the other on the crowd.

BBM opened in a couple of different "art house" screens here in Minneapolis initially, then expanded to the suburban gigaplexes.  Not only were the art houses packed, so have the suburban stadiums been as well.  Mostly I've noticed the same reactions at the same spots that others have mentioned above, but one thing strikes me repeatedly and I must say has pleasantly surprised me.

Especially in the 'burbs, I have to admit I was somewhat braced for negative reactions in the crowd to the initial sex-in-the-tent scene, and perhaps even more for the sweetly beautiful love scene the second time.  Again at the reunion on the landing, or even during the "spooning" conversation in the motel afterwards.

But the anticipated snickering or verbalizations have never materialized.  Abidingly, each audience has been quiet and observant, even the silver-haired or mom & pop crowds.  I find I'm somewhat ashamed of myself for having automatically underrated straight suburbia's reaction to such undeniable passion on the screen.  To the majority's credit, they seem to be viewing it as just that:  Undeniable passion, not simply "the gay stuff" or "passion, yes, but between two men."

It strikes me that this is a testament to a number of things.  To more "tolerance" than I'd anticipated from a straight crowd, yes, but also to the exemplary timing and storytelling skills of the author, the writers, the director and the actors.  A woman friend of mine, who'd initially commented on BBM as "that gay cowboy movie", wept openly throughout the end of the story.  By the time of the flashback scene (the "dozy embrace"), she said she'd had to remind herself that she was witnessing something unusual ... the love and the tragedy were so evident and so universal that the fact that she was witnessing two men was all but unnoticed by her.

I think it's phenomenal -- in the truest sense of that word -- that not only such a superlative story has been made and seen, but that it's already become such a tool for discussion and understanding among and between audiences of all genders and preferences.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: M. Alexander on January 06, 2006, 12:56:11 PM
Time to vent again, with people who understand.

With an old, dear friend - who was a BBM virgin (hadn't seen the film or read the story) - I went to see our favorite movie last night for the 3rd - and best yet - time. It is clear to me now that this is a classic. The more you see it, the more you see and understand. I'd read the story countless times since it first appeared in the New Yorker years ago and thought I knew it inside out. Well, last night I learned some more.

SPOILER: One scene that stood out for me was when their Brokeback summer was coming to an end. Ennis is sitting in the meadow by himself, alone, processing that this chapter of his life is now over. Jack comes up, ropes him, and ever the optimist tries to make light of their parting. But Ennis, not even able to figure out his feelings himself, lashes out and it comes to real fighting. Jack says "Ennis, Ennis" (heartbreaking) but Ennis ain't buyin' it. Then of course, after they've parted and Ennis breaks down, retching in the alleyway, unable to comprehend what has happened to him. The power of the retching scene had hit me from the first time I saw it, but it was only this time that Ennis' utter aloneness was brought home, seeing him there sitting in the meadow.

I just reveled in seeing all the minute eye contact that goes on between Jack and Ennis, right from the get-go. Ennis may not know what's going on, but he's interested right from the start. And Jack? That boy knows a good thing when he sees it!

The scene with Jack's beaten down, but all-knowing mother is just so amazing. The economy of gesture and feeling. If you all haven't yet gone on the link "Others" on Jake, Heath, etc. be sure to do so. The interview with Roberta Maxwell, the actress who so brilliantly plays the role, is just wonderful.

My friend - 78 years old - was just bowled over by this movie. We walked home together, clinging to one another. (One of the benefits of living on the Upper West Side of Manhattan. Nobody gives a shit to see a couple of men holding on to one another.) That is one of the residuals of this film, too: appreciation of the love we ourselves have (or don't have) in our lives, whether it be from a lover, a friend or a family member. Being grateful for what we have. The deep hurt, of course, is seeing how Jack and Ennis were unable to fully have what they so deserved: the fully realized love of one another.

My audience last night was wonderful. Similar to what others have described: nearly full house, mixed couples, many older folks, some younger women, some gay couples. Attentive from the start and deeply respectful. Smattering of applause at the finish. Totally silent exits. I think maybe our fears that American audiences wouldn't get this movie are indeed short of the mark. Quality is always apparent. Oh, how grateful I am to be alive to see this wonderful story brought to life on the screen and carried forth in the hearts of those of us who've seen it.

Thanks for letting me vent!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: lynn on January 06, 2006, 12:58:50 PM
Especially in the 'burbs, I have to admit I was somewhat braced for negative reactions in the crowd to the initial sex-in-the-tent scene, and perhaps even more for the sweetly beautiful love scene the second time. ...  
 I find I'm somewhat ashamed of myself for having automatically underrated straight suburbia's reaction to such undeniable passion on the screen. 

Jeff, I smiled at your post since I'm a "straight suburnite" and was braced for the same negative reactions (from the audience, not ME). In 4 viewings of the "tent scenes", I heard not one peep out of my fellow moviegoers. In fact, except for laughter at mostly appropriate places, and of course lots of crying, they are the quietest theaters I've ever been in. Everyone seems so focused and reverent.

I'm wondering if the people seeing it now were well-prepared by reading reviews on what to expect.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: WLAGuy on January 06, 2006, 02:05:44 PM

I'm wondering if the people seeing it now were well-prepared by reading reviews on what to expect.

Lynn, I don't think any amount of reading reviews can prepare you for what you see up there on the screen.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Dathan on January 06, 2006, 02:35:11 PM
In the ZEST section for this coming Sunday's paper(here in Houston TX) there is a long story entitled: "Going for Brokeback A tale of two audiences:one gay, one straight". It is written by Vance Muse director of the Menil Collection of the Museum of Fine Arts, Houston.  He tells of going to the arthouse River Oaks (where I've seen it twice).  The first signs of laughter is at the first tent scene--same when I went.  Then he said they roared when Alma sees Ennis and Jack on steps--again same when I went.  But as I remember too he says the audience grew quiet and remained so and there was wide spread weeping by the end.  But he said he could not shake "the memory or the aesthetic damage of the inappropriate laughter."   
He decided he must return to Brokeback Mountain but at a new venue in Northwest Houston.  He goes on to say that the audience was full of teens and twenty-somethings.  He was apprehensive and said he "held his breath" during the first tent scene but "the young audience watched in silence".  The article continues with him questioning the behavior of so many gays in the first showing.. Were/are they cynical or are we used to seeing gays vilified on screen?
A good article, there's been one every week in the paper for one reason or the other.  Sorry I suck at sending links but it is by Vance Muse in the Houston Chronicle Zest section for this Sunday.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: ruth on January 06, 2006, 02:54:00 PM
I am going to see it for only the second time tonight (can't wait!) with my friend, who is single, female and...I'm not sure what orientation, we really haven't gotten into that discussion! She cracks me up. Our conversation went something like this:

Me:  Do you want to go see "Brokeback Mountain" with me tonight?

Her: Shit yeah! Heath Ledger making out with Matt Damon! I am so down with that action.

Me:  It's not Matt Damon. It's Jake Gyllenhaal.

Her:  Who? Dude, I'm tellin' ya, it's Matt Damon.

Me:  No it's not. Matt Damon does not make out with Heath Ledger in this film.

Her: Jake Gyllen-whatsis makes out with Matt Damon?

Me:  NO!! Matt Damon makes out with NO ONE in this film! He's not even IN it!! Matt Damon gets NONE!

Her:  Oh....well now I don't know if I want to see it. Man, I play my "Knights' Tale" DVD all the *&%in' time and I've been thinking, "Dude I can't WAIT to watch that guy make it with Matt Damon.... "


And so it went. But she is going with me tonight. I'll have to let you know how it goes.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Radha on January 06, 2006, 04:16:21 PM
In the ZEST section for this coming Sunday's paper(here in Houston TX) there is a long story entitled: "Going for Brokeback A tale of two audiences:one gay, one straight". It is written by Vance Muse director of the Menil Collection of the Museum of Fine Arts, Houston.  He tells of going to the arthouse River Oaks (where I've seen it twice).  The first signs of laughter is at the first tent scene--same when I went.  Then he said they roared when Alma sees Ennis and Jack on steps--again same when I went.  But as I remember too he says the audience grew quiet and remained so and there was wide spread weeping by the end.  But he said he could not shake "the memory or the aesthetic damage of the inappropriate laughter."   
He decided he must return to Brokeback Mountain but at a new venue in Northwest Houston.  He goes on to say that the audience was full of teens and twenty-somethings.  He was apprehensive and said he "held his breath" during the first tent scene but "the young audience watched in silence".  The article continues with him questioning the behavior of so many gays in the first showing.. Were/are they cynical or are we used to seeing gays vilified on screen?
A good article, there's been one every week in the paper for one reason or the other.  Sorry I suck at sending links but it is by Vance Muse in the Houston Chronicle Zest section for this Sunday.

When I watched it at the River Oaks, There was absolute silence during all of the love scenes. Not a sound from anyone. There was laughter in most of the other scenes as people have previously mentioned - When Alma sees them, Jack's showdown with his FIL, and his line about it being a goddamn bitch of a unsatisfactory situation, etc.

Still waiting to see it again.....
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: WLAGuy on January 06, 2006, 04:24:53 PM
In the ZEST section for this coming Sunday's paper(here in Houston TX) there is a long story entitled: "Going for Brokeback A tale of two audiences:one gay, one straight". It is written by Vance Muse director of the Menil Collection of the Museum of Fine Arts, Houston.  He tells of going to the arthouse River Oaks (where I've seen it twice).  The first signs of laughter is at the first tent scene--same when I went.  Then he said they roared when Alma sees Ennis and Jack on steps--again same when I went.  But as I remember too he says the audience grew quiet and remained so and there was wide spread weeping by the end.  But he said he could not shake "the memory or the aesthetic damage of the inappropriate laughter."   
He decided he must return to Brokeback Mountain but at a new venue in Northwest Houston.  He goes on to say that the audience was full of teens and twenty-somethings.  He was apprehensive and said he "held his breath" during the first tent scene but "the young audience watched in silence".  The article continues with him questioning the behavior of so many gays in the first showing.. Were/are they cynical or are we used to seeing gays vilified on screen?
A good article, there's been one every week in the paper for one reason or the other.  Sorry I suck at sending links but it is by Vance Muse in the Houston Chronicle Zest section for this Sunday.

As far as I can tell it's not online yet, Dathan.  It looks like a great article, too.  I'll try to remember to check back this coming Sunday or Monday.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Dathan on January 06, 2006, 04:45:51 PM
Radha I'm glad you did.  Thats why i was looking forward to it expanding and hopefully coming out Sugar Land way but I definitely want to see it with a suburban audience and in a new theatre so I can understand Ennis better. :)
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: terry on January 06, 2006, 10:08:44 PM
  While waiting for Chronicles of Narnia to start, a couple of women behind me started talking about how great a movie season this has been.  They brought up numerous films and one of them was Brokeback Mountain.  They talked about how good it was and they thought that Heath and Jake could pass as a real couple (Yeaahaaaw!!!).  Seriously, they said that both guys did a great job, especially Heath.  One even wondered if it was based on a true story.  I was gonna tell them the author's name but then the movie started.  Just an FYI, after BBM, Narnia is my second favorite movie of the year!!!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Diego on January 06, 2006, 11:13:37 PM
Ive seen this one 3 times now.

My first sceening, which was populated mostly by gay men, there were no laughs, but there were gasps in all the right places. Thinking back, it was the best responce at the landing kiss scene. but it was dissapointing because they didn't really laught at the jokes and the applause at the end was very mild.

On my second and third viewings i have to add that the same things that have been said above happened. Laughing at the Funny parts and Completely silent during the tent scene and the last 20 minutes of the film. You could hear yourself breath. Now on the third, a really strange thing happened, reactionwise. I was seated next to two women on my left. The scene where Alma catches Ennis and Jack, the woman next to me let out a *loud* gasp, turned around to her friend and hid her face in horror. It was a little distracting when i noticed her but when i got out of the theatre I couldnt stop smiling that it got that kind of reaction out of her.

Im going to my fourth tomorrow. My younger brother wants to see king kong, I told him i would take him and gave me an excuse to Enjoy BBM once again.

 :)
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: rjc on January 07, 2006, 12:45:42 AM
Just came home from my fourth viewing: 7:30 show in Bellevue (Seattle burb). The theatre was about 80% full; most of the audience consisted of couples (40 yrs old and up). There was a lot of energy in the auditorium before the movie started, laughter, loud conversations. That was an indication of reactions to come. Laughter at the intentionally funny scenes and lines, but the loudest laughter of all came in the scene where Alma sees the guys kissing. I know a number of you have mentioned this kind of reaction, but I was horrified. What could these people find funny about a scene of "unnatural" passion that rips the heart out of Alma. In my first three viewings, no one laughed at all; most people gasped (which I think is the appropriate reaction).

As in all my other viewings, there was silence for the last 30 minutes or so. And as in the other viewings, no one I could see or hear cried. Audiences cry at the cheapest, most manipulative crap. How could they not cry here?



Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: MellorSJ on January 07, 2006, 02:18:56 AM

I'm wondering if the people seeing it now were well-prepared by reading reviews on what to expect.

Lynn, I don't think any amount of reading reviews can prepare you for what you see up there on the screen.
I hope not.  I'm spending 4hrs/day on BBM, and I STILL haven't seen it.  12 days and 11 mins to go!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: jack on January 07, 2006, 07:56:31 AM
Just came home from my fourth viewing: 7:30 show in Bellevue (Seattle burb). The theatre was about 80% full; most of the audience consisted of couples (40 yrs old and up). There was a lot of energy in the auditorium before the movie started, laughter, loud conversations. That was an indication of reactions to come. Laughter at the intentionally funny scenes and lines, but the loudest laughter of all came in the scene where Alma sees the guys kissing. I know a number of you have mentioned this kind of reaction, but I was horrified. What could these people find funny about a scene of "unnatural" passion that rips the heart out of Alma. In my first three viewings, no one laughed at all; most people gasped (which I think is the appropriate reaction).

As in all my other viewings, there was silence for the last 30 minutes or so. And as in the other viewings, no one I could see or hear cried. Audiences cry at the cheapest, most manipulative crap. How could they not cry here?





rjc...

i don't know if all your shows were in bellevue, but i do know that town, and it tis both yuppie and conservative to the max, it seems inconceivable but its still not surprising.

jack
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: ruth on January 07, 2006, 11:44:02 AM
rjc---

I was at the 9:45 showing at that same theatre in Bellevue last night.  Again, nice mixed crowd and about 80% full; lots of energy from the audience before hand BUT the first 10 minutes or so of the movie were messed up by some form of screwup in the projector room---nothing but a big blur up until the time when Jack and Ennis are being told what their jobs are to be. My friend was POed...as was I, as that beginning sequence is one of my favorite parts!

At any rate the audience was riveted during the entire film. There was a distinct energy coming off of the crowd I thought--they were *way* into it. There was some laughing at the Alma-sees-The-Kiss scene but after last night's viewing I have a different take on it, it doesn't horrify me any more, and this is why: There is a remarkable tension building way before the kiss, and I think the audience can feel it. It started when Ennis was just beginning his Jack Watch, looking at the window, anticipating. By the time the Kiss happens, the tension is so thick you could cut it with a knife, and the crowd is just starting to gasp and make noises, and when Alma sees them---my feeling is that the laughter is more a blowing-off-of-steam kind of reaction, like an Oh-God-Oh-God nervous tic. I really didn't get the impression they were laughing at Alma at all.  Just some way of releasing the tension. They certainly didn't keep laughing when it became clear how saddened she was.

At one or two times during the film I took a mental break just to monitor what the crowd was doing, and it was amazing how absolutely silent they were, just drinking it in. No fidgeting, no coughing. Completely absorbed.  And this was the late show when most folks (like myself) are normally starting to doze off during lesser films.  Also, there was definite sniffling at the end.

One very pleasant thing was the gal sitting on my right. There was a handful of young women, late teens early twenties I guessed, sitting there and at first I thought, "Oh no are they going to be rowdy and mock it all the way through?"  They were certainly high-energy before the show. But then it became apparent that the gal on my right was a FAN---she was so totally into it, I could feel waves of love just coming off her! For all I know, she might be here on this board right now--Hello,  I kind of wanted to talk to you after the show, are you there?  You were the one who told me Laura Bush dragged the President to go see BBM...

Oh one more thing. My friend was not sorry she went; she loved it (despite lack of Matt Damon) and she had some wonderful comments to make afterwards. First thing she said when the lights came up was: "Dude, Heath Ledger just totally portrayed my father up there on the screen for all to see."  She was kind of melancholy about it.  She also made several observations about the characters motivations that were new to me, for instance she said she knew Alma Jr. knew of her dad's love affair because of the scene where Ennis is dropping her off after the meeting with Cassie, and AJ asks to come live with him. She says she could cook for him and be a real help around the house. My friend interpreted this as AJ saying, "Dad I know you are not going to want to live with another woman (because you are gay) but I want to come to your house and be the woman in your house and take care of you because I love you."  My friend also went on to say that most movies would slap you across the face with this information and she really appreciated the rare subtlety.

All in all, a very satisfying evening.  rjc, I am sorry it was not so much for you, I'm glad I wasn't at that showing.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: PetterG on January 07, 2006, 11:57:44 AM
portrayed my father up there on the screen for all to see
are you saying that your friend is an 'Alma del Mar jr' ???

we have a lot of 'Ennis' here, some 'Jack' and even one or two 'Alma sr' !
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Carl on January 07, 2006, 06:04:12 PM
Orlando shows were all sold out.  Mostly gay, but there was a mix.  Probably the best way to describe the power of the movie...BBM is being shown at an arthouse theatre with waiters, food and drinks.  NO ONE budged during the enitire show.  BUT, when the credits stared to roll...there was an absolute stampede to the restrooms. :D  I thought I was the only one holding it in.  I went with a straight friend of mine and will take two more tomorrow.  This movie will do fine with straight folks...if they see it.  I have been twice and I am hooked.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: rjc on January 07, 2006, 06:55:11 PM
You're right, jack, Bellevue is primarily yuppie and conservative, but there's a large contingent of liberal Microsofties in town, and it's this contingent that's kept the BBM boxoffice strong for three weeks now. In any case, I'm assuming that anyone who attends BBM is in some way, for some reason interested in it, and that's why I was so surprised by the insensitive reaction. The laughter didn't come from fundamentalists, bigots, and other assorted idiots; they wouldn't be caught dead in the theatre in the first place.

Ruth, I was willing to give my audience the benefit of the doubt and conclude that what I was hearing was nervous laughter. But I don't think it was. In any case, I'm happy to hear that your audience's reaction was more appropriate. I'd love to hear some sniffling other than my own. I guess I'll just have to keep going until I find an audience that gets it right.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: jack on January 07, 2006, 07:20:50 PM
rjc, the boeing-ites must have moved on creating a migratory effect from redland ;D
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: gnash on January 08, 2006, 04:40:59 AM
i posted this in another thread in response to tony, but figure it should sit here as well:

tony -- we were able to get in for the 7:35 arclight show last night,,, oddly enough there were plenty of seats left, practically the entire front 3 rows -- must have been that computer glitch.

wow, nobody screamed during the "DECEASED" scene at our showing. there was a group of younger people slightly high or drunk, or just happy. they laughed hard during many of the scenes... kinda strange. lots of coughing too, must be a bug going around. a woman wailed at the cut to jack, his face bloodied by his three assailants. some nervous laughter during alma's window scene and when it was discovered that joe was watching them through binoculars.

i love that scene because you can hear joe in the saddle, the leather creaking slightly, and the view is jittery, like the view through a handheld camera. but you never know what's going on until they show him with binoculars in hand. some laughter here at this showing, a few audible gasps.

a slight wave of chucklng during the scene where jack describes his relationship with lureen as easy as "over the phone." dead silence during the entire twist ranch kitchen scene and upstairs in the bedroom.

my first viewing was with a very gay audience the first week it came out. lots of crying and sniffling was heard throught the movie, and much cheering at the end for ang lee. some men stood up to applaud, but i think most of the audience was just too stunned to follow.

a marked difference this time around, and the audience was varied -- saw lots of hetero couples hand in hand, and even a few families with kids as young as 8 or 10 years old. we noticed many of the people waiting to get in to the 10pm show were gay, or at least looked gay. male couples hand in hand, etc. nice to see guys unafraid to show affection, if only as simple as a head on a shoulder or open bickering over buttered or plain popcorn, lol.

i'm sure our friends in small towns wouldn't dare hold hands in line for this movie, no way.

i've seen BBM at the grove, burbank, pasadena and the arclight. i have to say that the soundsystem at the arclight was the best. like i said, you can almost hear insects crawling in some scenes! the sound in the camp scenes are masterful, with so much layering to create a perfect, outdoor atmosphere.

i went with a 21 yr old and his 24 yr old old partner, neither of them cried (!), but they loved it, and we had a nice discussion afterwards at a weho eatery. (our waiter was a looker on par with jake, a dark haired beauty from a town called wintergreen. we would have loved to have seen him in a cowboy hat, heh.)

we noticed a store window with a display of BBM related items. cowboy hats, movie posters, some horseshoe coat hangers and whatnot. i reckon the phenomenom will continue. can't wait to see boys in west hollywood in cowboy boots and pearl button shirts. who knows, maybe two shirts layered, denim on top of a light plaid, will be fashionable in the gay community sometime soon. 

my seventh viewing was tonight as well... but surely not the last!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: jack on January 08, 2006, 04:51:45 AM
gnash...

you might want to consider bookmarking the new BBM fever support group.  i did, but its not really that bad for me, lol.

jack
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: gnash on January 08, 2006, 05:07:25 AM
jack, is it that obvious?  ::)

i wrote my recent posts with brokebackLJ's song and the BBM soundtrack playing in the background, fueled by my seventh viewing tonight, with first time friends and some interesting conversation afterwards. i suppose this will all wear off in due time, but seriously doubt another movie will grab me like BBM, which so far has refused to let go. like you're fond of saying, "aint no reins on this one!!!"

just think what this board will be like when the dvd is released...

"...played the kissing scene in slo-mo, and was finally able to see the silvery line of spit between jack and ennis' lips!"
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: jack on January 08, 2006, 06:22:14 AM
GNASH...

now THAT gave me a laugh.  so much for the "moderates" who think this will blow over in a month or so.  the hardcore among us will keep the flames fanned until the DVD comes out, and then we can anticipate a deluge of obsessed newbies.  at least this site will be in place for them..

jack
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Nado on January 08, 2006, 07:20:49 AM
A friend of mine here in Washington had an interesting report.

She said that at BBM's conclusion, the audience filed out of the theater - and while in tears, it was almost as if they couldn't look at one another. It was as if they felt shame and embarassment for the America they live in.

This IS a political film!

Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: rjh_dump on January 08, 2006, 09:24:33 AM
BBM opened in Oklahoma City on Jan 6th at two theaters. I attended the first showing (early afternoon) at one theater. That same day I attended an evening showing at the other theater.

During the first showing, my perception was that the audience was mainly straight. I noticed that some may have been granddaughter and grandmother going to an afternoon matinee. I was surprised and wondered if most of the goers even knew what kind of movie it was. The theater on opening day, 1st showing (1:10 pm), was filled. Not sold out, but fairly packed. The 7:10 pm showing on the board at the ticket booth flashed "sold out."

During the 1st "tent scene" very little happened in the theater. It was rather quite. I noticed the man in front of me putting his arm around his girlfriend and/or wife and quickly kissing her. During the scene when Alma witnessed the two guys kissing, there were some "Oh no's." I was surprised and pleased with how the audience handled the movie. I live in Yukon (a suburb of Okla City) and expected some "walk-outs." There were none that I noticed (and no groans). An emotionally powerful moment occurred when Ennis received the mail stamped "deceased." I heard an "oh no" and some groans. After that I heard many sniffles. I was torn-up. I rarely cry but felt that I was going to lose it toward the end. I left the theater quickly, embarrassed at my emotional state and not wanting anyone to see a grown man upset and crying a bit...so I didn't witness how others left, however, I heard a lot of sniffles.

The evening show at another theater was not as quiet. My perception was while there were more gays in the audience, I'd say the majority where straight. There were more responses from the audience as far as laughter during some of the more comical scenes and statements. I heard a lot of comments (non were derogotary, just a good natured audience) thoughout the movie, however, again, dead quiet from the scene of the "deceased" post card to the very end, aside from the many sniffles. The audience left and it was quiet. I noticed leaving the theater people seemed to be leaving as if in mourning. It was really quite sad.

I love Oklahoma, but having lived here for 15 years (moved here from Los Angeles where I grew up) I did expect at least some walk-outs or a loudmouth in the audience exclaiming their distate for the movie. None of those happened in the shows I went to.

I believe the audience knew the content of the movie and/or where mature enough to handle it.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Dathan on January 08, 2006, 02:59:43 PM
Here is the link for the article in this Sunday's Houston Chronicle by Vance Muse.  His take on seeing BBM in two different theatres in Houston--one sudience he felt basically gay and another more young and mainstream.  What do you guys & gals think?
http://chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ent/movies/3568578.html
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: lynn on January 08, 2006, 03:54:15 PM
The young straight audiences was quieter, while the gay audience laughed during the first tent scene (sacrilege) and Alma at the reunion kiss. Not unlike some other reactions posted here.

I'm starting to think that out in the suburbs at a muliplex on a midweek afternoon is the way to go. Mostly seniors, a few couples, and nuts like me. Quiet as a church, for the most part.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: PennQuaker on January 08, 2006, 05:02:49 PM
The young straight audiences was quieter, while the gay audience laughed during the first tent scene (sacrilege) and Alma at the reunion kiss. Not unlike some other reactions posted here.

I'm starting to think that out in the suburbs at a muliplex on a midweek afternoon is the way to go. Mostly seniors, a few couples, and nuts like me. Quiet as a church, for the most part.

I second that.  BTW, brand new member here today .. I'm sure moderators and other members will provide guidance if I run afoul of established protocol. 

As I said in my introduction post, I've seen the film every day since my birthday (12/22), so I'm approaching 20 screenings.  It wasn't until the third or fourth that I finally caught all the dialogue, so much of it being whispered or mumbled.  Beyond that, it's laden with imagery, foreshadowing, and flashbacks, all of which require attention and concentration.  This is best done in a quiet, uncrowded theater with people who know how to behave themselves. 

My home base is the Ritz in Philadelphia, which has had showings from 11:30a to 10:00p.  I've seen at least one at each time, and some interesting trends have come to light: 

a)  For the most part, the straight audiences have demonstrated a surprising level of self-control during the scenes most likely to jolt them.  This is encouraging:  no outbursts, no sneering, no exaggerated groaning, certainly no dramatic walkouts.  None of this was the case in 1982, when half the theater walked out during _Making Love_.  The worst reaction I've noted is inappropriate giggling. 

b)  Beyond their surprising restraint, I believe the majority of the straight audiences "get it."  I say this because of two consistent observations beyond their unexpected composure:  a large number of the men, particularly the younger men, walk out silently, their chins attached to their chests.  This is what guys do when they don't want people to see they're emotional.  Also, the older folks -- my cohort, 45+ -- often cluster outside the theater, babbling on about how wonderful it was.

c)  Philadelphians react, audibly, to all the same scenes others have mentioned:  Alma at the door witnessing The Kiss; turning away from Ennis, in tears, as he runs off with Jack; Aguirre spying the barechested grappling; Jack reading the Riot Act to his asshole of a father in law.

d)  The Returned Postcard:  by this point, the theater is usually stone silent.  When the postcard is revealed, there are often audible gasps and stifled sobs. 

e)  Jack's (imagined?) murder:  by this point, many women seem to be struggling to control their tears.  Single women seem to do better in this regard than women in groups.  In mixed-sex couples, a surprising number of the men are slumped down in their seats, appearing to recoil. 

I must've talked with at least a hundred people (anyone who'll submit themselves to this torture, actually), and there was but one person who didn't like it.  Surprisingly enough, it was a younger (32) gay man, a longtime friend, who thought it was "too long" and lacked continuity.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Pug on January 08, 2006, 06:15:08 PM
Have seen it twice in beautiful Doylestown, PA at the County, the non-profit art house cinema. This is a 41 mile trip each way.

First time I saw it, I heard a woman behind me exclaim before the start of the BBM that she hates "being dragged to movies she doesn't want to see." A fast "SHHHH!" from me did the trick. Not another peep from her. The biggest annoyance came from a gay gentleman with a deep baritone whisper. He had a comment for EVERYTHING. So annoying! During the initial sex/tent scene he exclaimed "Oh my God!' and when Alma sees Jake and Ennis kissing, he exclaimed "Poor thing." I just wanted to kill him. Other than that, the audience was quiet and sat in stunned silence during the last half hour with noticeable crying at Jake's parent's house.

Second time, I took my mom who is 88. The theater was practically sold out and the audience was perfect. There was a quiet gasp when Alma sees Ennis with Jake. There was audible soft weeping at the end. My Mom loved the film and dealt very well with the tent scene but the later violence and cruelty was upsetting to her.

It opens here in Allentown this Saturday at our local non profit art house theater, The 19th Street Theatre, for a 2 week run (very long for the 19th Street as films change weekly since it is the only independent venue here). My guess , like F 9/11, the big chains will eventually pick it up. IMO The 19th Street is the perfect theater for this film. Trailers at the local megaplex last Fall were met with straight guy snickering.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: thirdeye on January 08, 2006, 06:20:44 PM
I'm hoping BBM sweeps the Oscars, especially now that I got my father to see it.

If someone close to you saw the movie and didn't feel the emotional impact it had on yourself then what does that mean?

Are they possibly crippled, emotionally?

I'm afraid my father was so guarded by the fact of seeing two men loving each other that he totally missed the impact this movie could have had on him.  He appreciates the arts, he loves classical music and is an avid movie buff but somehow he misses this one entirely.

What does that say?

PS.  I've posted part of this on another thread, not realizing this thread was more appropriate.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: knightmare on January 08, 2006, 06:54:05 PM
I didn't have the emotional impact from the movie that everyone else has had, and I don't think myself an emotional cripple.

It might be many different reasons.  Maybe if he watched the movie in private, he'd have felt more free, but in public, he might have been worrying about what everyone else around him might think of him if he responded.  He might have found himself embarrassed, or hesitant to be open.

My friend and I had a good time watching the movie, and it was entertaining to us both, but neither of us cried, or gasped, although we did laugh when appropriate.

BTW, he's gay (the friend I went to see the movie with).  His main comment was he wished they'd panned in closer on the scene when they jumped off the cliff into the river.  ;)
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: waynerman on January 08, 2006, 09:30:50 PM
Saw it for the second time tonight. Bigger theater, bigger screen.

My impression was that the audience seemed to be mostly straight couples. There must have been other gay couples or groups there besides my partner and myself, but I didn't see any.

There was uproarious laughter at the Alma-witnesses-the-kissing scene, which really irked me. And there were times when the straight couple next to me were going "Awwww,' as if it was so CUTE that these guys were kissing each other...yecch!

It is so interesting to see, though, how the audience quiets down as the film progresses. There was hardly a peep out of anyone for the last half hour or so, just some sniffles. I was crying, which didn't surprise me--the scene where Ennis visits Jack's parents just rips my heart out of my chest.

My partner seemed more "teary" this time. We talked afterwards about all the little things we caught the second time around, that we hadn't noticed the first time. For one thing, much of Ennis's dialogue was more understandable, hearing it the second time.

As when we saw the movie the first time, there were a number of straight couples standing out in the theater lobby afterwards, having animated discussions about how much they liked it. I heard one man say, "This is one movie that deserves all the hype it's received." That warmed my heart!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: mary on January 08, 2006, 09:53:05 PM
I'm in San Diego The first time I saw BBM (the day it opened in SD) I saw it with my husband and a couple of gay women friends.  There were a significant number of seniors in the audience.  The film had just that day gotten a glowing review in the SD paper
The audience was fairly quiet - not much laughter even during funny parts

We all loved the film
After the film we went to dinner and one of my fiends told me of what she over heard from the senior couple next to her. During the scene of the first night in the tent, the woman next to her turned to her husband and said 'what are they doing - are they fighting?' Now I am sure they got the idea after that and no one in  the audience walked out.

  Lots of sniffling at the end. Many stayed to watch all of the credits.


Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Luckie Starchild on January 09, 2006, 07:05:01 AM
Last night my friend told me she had seen it and that she liked it but did not love it.  It was too slow and boring.  She basically said BBM is overrated and that people are only saying its great because of the same sex relationship.

I know I should realize that not everyone is going to love it but... grrr... I am really annoyed with her right now.  I can't help it!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: CellarDweller115 on January 09, 2006, 07:42:49 AM
If all goes well, I'll be going back for my 3rd viewing of BBM on Sunday (my bday) with my friend Cor.  She is a "mush", much like me, and I can picture us both crying at the movie. 

haahaahaa
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: waynerman on January 09, 2006, 07:50:20 AM
I think that people who feel that the movie is slow and boring saw it when they weren't in the mood to be engaged by it. BBM isn't difficult to understand, but neither is it the kind of box-office dreck that caters to people with five-second attention spans.

Then again, there are people who are just "immune" to certain movies. I, for one, have never been able to understand the appeal of Casablanca, which I have seen twice and disliked both times.  :(
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: knightmare on January 09, 2006, 08:14:57 AM
When Mel first asked me about it, I told her I didn't like chick flicks.  Then we argued about it.  To me, it's just that. I'm not into relationship movies, no matter who the relationship is about.  And it was slow.  I also don't find the '5 second attention span movies' to be dreck.  That's just me, I realize.

One thing everyone has to acknowledge.  Not everyone is going to go insane for this movie. And not because of the same sex pairing.  Not because of the controversy, etc.  Simply because movies like this (slow, majestic, romantic, etc) are simply not their thing.  That doesn't mean anything is wrong with them, nor does it mean they are against the movie or what it portrays.  It just means they didn't like the movie.  Period.

Now, my mom liked the movie.  She was a bit uncomfortable about the sex scenes, but I'm unsure if that was just that it was sex scenes, or same sex scenes.  She had no problem with Buffy TVS, and they showed as much as BBM.

I'm taking my husband this weekend, so he can know what all the fuss is about.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Pug on January 09, 2006, 08:52:03 AM
Knightmare, I am new here but isn't this forum for people who love this film and want to share? I don't understand your posts in this arena ??? but then I imagine all opinions are welcome. Again, I am new so maybe I am wrong!

IMO, most 5 second attention span movies are garbage but sometimes fun. 
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: rjc on January 09, 2006, 09:37:38 AM
Knightmare, I am new here but isn't this forum for people who love this film and want to share? I don't understand your posts in this arena ??? but then I imagine all opinions are welcome. Again, I am new so maybe I am wrong!

As I see it, this forum is for anyone who's interested in BBM and wants to share his or her thoughts and reactions. At least I hope that's so. I find Knightmare's dissenting opinions refreshing, and I think they serve the purpose of splashing the cold water of reality on all of us BBM-lovers. It's great fun and in many ways nurturing to exhange our bouquets to the film among ourselves, but I want the bigger picture. We'd love to see it sweep the Oscars, but how realistic is that outcome? We'd love it to have a lasting benign effect on society, but will it?

We can't answer those questions--and others like them--now, but I feel it's important to pose them.

I've seen BBM four times now. When I tell friends and family that, they think I'm crazy.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Charlie on January 09, 2006, 10:03:22 AM
A report from Gainesville, Florida.

Well, I went to see it today at 12:30 pm. The theater was about 2/3 full.
The ticket woman identified that they were sold out for the evening showings and had been since Friday. They even added an extra theater to handle the crowds.

Very good movie. I enjoyed it. Glad a read the story before hand (thanks!) - it was very true to the book. There were some really good shots (camera
angles) in the movie. Very well made. I definitely enjoyed it and will likely buy it when it comes out. I think I agree with you - it is unlikely to win best picture.

I recognized a number of guys in the crowd (you can guess why) and was very pleased with the number of lesbians that I saw there. In fact, I was very surprised to see so many.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: lynn on January 09, 2006, 10:06:17 AM
As I see it, this forum is for anyone who's interested in BBM and wants to share his or her thoughts and reactions.

Yes, all opinions welcome! We are interested in what our friends and family and audiences in various cities think of this movie and understanding the different reasons people might not like it. It's helpful to temper our expectations knowing that not everyone shares our intense passion.

If there are specific scenes anyone either likes or dislikes, you may also wish to discuss them in more detail in the Main Forum under Dislikes or Movie Scenes.  :)
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: lynn on January 09, 2006, 10:08:35 AM
I think I agree with you - it is unlikely to win best picture.

Why is that, Charlie?
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: waynerman on January 09, 2006, 10:50:39 AM
I for one do not agree that BBM is unlikely to win best picture. Look at its competitors. Good Night, and Good Luck is an excellent film, but it's just a bit on the cold and clinical side--a movie that people respond to in an intellectual, rather than emotional, way. Same with Munich. These pictures are chilly.

BBM, on the other hand, is a movie that people, including Academy voters, can warm up to. That has led to Oscar success in the past.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Charlie on January 09, 2006, 11:07:28 AM
I think I agree with you - it is unlikely to win best picture.

Why is that, Charlie?

I don't know.  I just feel that it won't.  But I would love it if it does.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Tony on January 09, 2006, 12:56:48 PM
I couldn't wait any longer.  I had to go tonight.
Arclight 7:35 PM.  Lines were too long and too slow.  My line wasn't moving.  The computer got broken!  They did reset it.  It was 7:45 PM when I was in front of the ticket counter. The show was soon starting.  Luckly there was another show at 8:10PM.  So, I got tix for that one.  Before the previews started I went to check the board to see if my show sold out.  Well... not only one, but two shows sold out!!! 7:35 and 8:10 !!!  Munich had two sold out too around those times.  Match point had one sold out.

The audience was quite mixed.  40% gay, and half women.  Lots of staight couples.
They reacted to most of funny scenes.  The 4 yrs. later kiss was a shocker.  Lots of sadness when showing Alma's pain.
At the end, when they show the "Deceased" card, people screamed!
During the Ennis/Lureen phone conversation, people was in shocked.  Some people yelled "OMG", "Oh no!", when Ennis is think about Jack's tire iron.  :'(

At the end, I observed people leaving the room and lots were crying, including straigth men.

I checked the board for any other sold outs (the 10's shows).  There were no more sold out by BBM, Munchic or somebody else.

What's going on ????  This is the 5th weekend that BBM is shown here in LA, and still theaters are packed, people react to the movie...  This is insane!

By the way, I just tied my all-time record of viewing the same movie.  :o   I had that record with Titanic.
I will hit the 8th viewing mark soon.... very soon.... :-*
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Tony on January 09, 2006, 01:02:41 PM
The young straight audiences was quieter, while the gay audience laughed during the first tent scene (sacrilege) and Alma at the reunion kiss. Not unlike some other reactions posted here.

I'm starting to think that out in the suburbs at a muliplex on a midweek afternoon is the way to go. Mostly seniors, a few couples, and nuts like me. Quiet as a church, for the most part.

I second that.  BTW, brand new member here today .. I'm sure moderators and other members will provide guidance if I run afoul of established protocol. 

As I said in my introduction post, I've seen the film every day since my birthday (12/22), so I'm approaching 20 screenings.  It wasn't until the third or fourth that I finally caught all the dialogue, so much of it being whispered or mumbled.  Beyond that, it's laden with imagery, foreshadowing, and flashbacks, all of which require attention and concentration.  This is best done in a quiet, uncrowded theater with people who know how to behave themselves. 

My home base is the Ritz in Philadelphia, which has had showings from 11:30a to 10:00p.  I've seen at least one at each time, and some interesting trends have come to light: 

a)  For the most part, the straight audiences have demonstrated a surprising level of self-control during the scenes most likely to jolt them.  This is encouraging:  no outbursts, no sneering, no exaggerated groaning, certainly no dramatic walkouts.  None of this was the case in 1982, when half the theater walked out during _Making Love_.  The worst reaction I've noted is inappropriate giggling. 

b)  Beyond their surprising restraint, I believe the majority of the straight audiences "get it."  I say this because of two consistent observations beyond their unexpected composure:  a large number of the men, particularly the younger men, walk out silently, their chins attached to their chests.  This is what guys do when they don't want people to see they're emotional.  Also, the older folks -- my cohort, 45+ -- often cluster outside the theater, babbling on about how wonderful it was.

c)  Philadelphians react, audibly, to all the same scenes others have mentioned:  Alma at the door witnessing The Kiss; turning away from Ennis, in tears, as he runs off with Jack; Aguirre spying the barechested grappling; Jack reading the Riot Act to his asshole of a father in law.

d)  The Returned Postcard:  by this point, the theater is usually stone silent.  When the postcard is revealed, there are often audible gasps and stifled sobs. 

e)  Jack's (imagined?) murder:  by this point, many women seem to be struggling to control their tears.  Single women seem to do better in this regard than women in groups.  In mixed-sex couples, a surprising number of the men are slumped down in their seats, appearing to recoil. 

I must've talked with at least a hundred people (anyone who'll submit themselves to this torture, actually), and there was but one person who didn't like it.  Surprisingly enough, it was a younger (32) gay man, a longtime friend, who thought it was "too long" and lacked continuity.
These are great observations!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Pug on January 09, 2006, 01:12:23 PM
RJC, you may have a point. At work, I just merely explain that I'm not Christian or Jewish but Brokebackian, which is why I need to attend screeings on a regular basis.
Pug
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Tony on January 09, 2006, 01:14:10 PM
I got my 8th viewing yesterday!!!!
It was Sunday first show and the theatre was packed!!!  This is crazy!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: jack on January 09, 2006, 01:58:55 PM
I didn't have the emotional impact from the movie that everyone else has had, and I don't think myself an emotional cripple.

it must be having some effect on you or you wouldn't be cominng back and commenting here.  maybe you really haven't figured out where the hook is yet, but it appears to have caught.  i am sure there are more fun and sexy forums with a more age appropriate crowd or less tightly specific subject matter, but you choose to be with us.  why not try puttinig BBM out of your mind for a week or so, and see if you still feel like talking about it.  if you do, i think you might want to read the story and/or see the movie again, and see what it sticks in your craw.

jack
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Childers on January 09, 2006, 02:11:22 PM
I saw this film in San Francisco the first time and the audience sat in stunned silence.  I just saw it again last night in Las Vegas and the audience reacted in a manner I thought quite ignorant, including laughing when Alma sees them kissing.  Of course, much of the laughter was probably nervous reaction.  The complexity of emotion that runs through her at that one instant was gut wrenching.  It spoke loudly of how we devastate the lives of those we love when we do not live in honesty with each other.

The reason so many straight females LOVE this movie is because it is a "relationship" movie.  The complexities of the relationships, not just between the two men but between the men and their wives, the men and their children, Jack and his father in law, Jack's parents, Ennis's father and siblings, even the relationship of Monroe and Alma when she is a clerk in his store, gets explored with heartfelt emotion, with and/or without words.  It is simply a very compelling love story told brilliantly.  
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: rjc on January 09, 2006, 02:19:04 PM
RJC, you may have a point. At work, I just merely explain that I'm not Christian or Jewish but Brokebackian, which is why I need to attend screeings on a regular basis.
Pug

Thanks for the tip, pug. I'm sure my family and friends will understand my compulsion when I tell them I'm Brokebackian. It's time I came out the closet anyway.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: WLAGuy on January 09, 2006, 02:34:07 PM
I didn't have the emotional impact from the movie that everyone else has had, and I don't think myself an emotional cripple.

it must be having some effect on you or you wouldn't be cominng back and commenting here.  maybe you really haven't figured out where the hook is yet, but it appears to have caught.  i am sure there are more fun and sexy forums with a more age appropriate crowd or less tightly specific subject matter, but you choose to be with us.  why not try puttinig BBM out of your mind for a week or so, and see if you still feel like talking about it.  if you do, i think you might want to read the story and/or see the movie again, and see what it sticks in your craw.

jack

There seems to be a correlation between a viewer's age and the emotional impact BBM has on that person.  My younger friends who have seen the movie thought it was sad, but weren't as devastated by it as I was (or as some of the other people on this board), and I don't think it's because they are emotional cripples (well, maybe one is).  I think it may be because they don't have that first-hand experience with loss, loneliness or a lifetime of regrets that many of us who are older have.  
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: AvgGuyIA on January 09, 2006, 02:35:32 PM
I just returned from seeing Brokeback Mountain for the first time after not expecting it to EVER be shown in Davenport Iowa.

http://davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=144.157

I took some time off from work (Monday) to go see it...cost me a hundred bucks plus $6.50 admission but it was worth it.  When I arrived there was a man sitting in "my spot"...you know...that one seat in the threatre where you're not too high or too low and perfectly centered?  Well this other guy got it, so I sat a couple seats over.  At first, I thought we'd be the only ones in the theatre, but soon a tickle of folks came in and then finally, quite a few for a Monday showing at 12:15PM.

The audience settled into the show very quickly and except for the funny parts (Jack dancin') there was no laughing...thankfully no 'ewwwww'.  I think everyone there was a stunned as me in the beauty and tradegy of this film. 

That's all I can say about it at this time; I'm sure you all understand why  I need somebody to hold me close right now. 

Dave
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: scot5636 on January 09, 2006, 03:16:52 PM
There seems to be a correlation between a viewer's age and the emotional impact BBM has on that person.  My younger friends who have seen the movie thought it was sad, but weren't as devastated by it as I was (or as some of the other people on this board), and I don't think it's because they are emotional cripples (well, maybe one is).  I think it may be because they don't have that first-hand experience with loss, loneliness or a lifetime of regrets that many of us who are older have.  

That's a partial explanation, but it doesn't cover everyone.  My partner and I saw it, and it wiped me out like a bad virus.  He thought it was sad, but got past it pretty quickly.  The difference is, that I've been his first and last for the past 18 years, whereas I had a little history before we met.  I'm not sure that I have a lifetime of regrets, but I certainly have a few.

But the friends that really puzzle me are a couple that's been together for 25 years.  Each of them had substantial histories before they met.  Neither of them liked the movie . . . "it's too slow" . . . "it's too long" . . . "the aging makeup on Jake and Heath is really badly done" etc.  Based on those complaints, it's probably tempting dismiss them as shallow and vapid -- but that's not the case.  They're both very intelligent, well-read, sweet guys.  Maybe, after 25 years, you forget just how painful that kind of loss and loneliness are.  I know I still remember after 18 years.

 
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: DGB on January 09, 2006, 04:05:18 PM
My partner and I had a similar reaction mix.  He was more impressed with Geisha, (but also loves everything oriental to a compulsive level) which I found so predictable I was announcing scenes to myself before they happened.  He likes BBM and recognizes the love and sadness.  But he hasn't been thinking about it like I have (or others here on the forums).
We all have our experiences and our needs.  For a lot of us this film just went so deep into our subconscious that we were not prepared, and now we are having do deal and it hurts.
My thanks to the makers of this film.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: jim ... on January 09, 2006, 04:41:10 PM
I saw the movie for the first time today with a very dear female married friend.  We went to a 12:30 (Monday) showing. Seeing that it was my first viewing, I didn't want a packed theater.  I needed the space and the quiet while watching.  The audience (approx. 100 people) were very quiet through most of it..... a couple of chuckles where you'd expect them ... but total silence the last 1/3 of the movie. Afterwards, people meandered out very slowly .... very subdued.  My friend felt much that same as I ... stunned and finding it difficult to process.  She mentioned that this was a movie that she'd be thinking about alot.  I'm planning on seeing it a 2nd time next Sunday with another straight friend at an art theater .... will let you know how that one is afterwards.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: knightmare on January 09, 2006, 07:10:53 PM
Knightmare, I am new here but isn't this forum for people who love this film and want to share? I don't understand your posts in this arena ??? but then I imagine all opinions are welcome. Again, I am new so maybe I am wrong!

IMO, most 5 second attention span movies are garbage but sometimes fun. 

This sort of reaction is why I resisted Melisande for so long, and why I specifically posted in my introduction that I liked the film, but wasn't blown away by it. 

I believe I have as much right to post here as anyone else, and I thank those who have welcomed my opinion.   I'm a bit put off that I'm being questioned on my right to post.  Isn't this a free forum?

And, if everyone doesn't mind, I'm extremely picky about my use name (and I'll give kudos to anyone who figures out the real reason why)

It's k[/i]nightmare, not Knightmare.  I'll say thanks, ahead of time, to those who take the time to indulge my whim.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Pug on January 09, 2006, 07:14:22 PM
knightmare,
I think you must really, secretly love the film because you keep coming back to the forum!
Pug
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: knightmare on January 09, 2006, 07:17:06 PM
I didn't have the emotional impact from the movie that everyone else has had, and I don't think myself an emotional cripple.

it must be having some effect on you or you wouldn't be cominng back and commenting here.  maybe you really haven't figured out where the hook is yet, but it appears to have caught.  i am sure there are more fun and sexy forums with a more age appropriate crowd or less tightly specific subject matter, but you choose to be with us.  why not try puttinig BBM out of your mind for a week or so, and see if you still feel like talking about it.  if you do, i think you might want to read the story and/or see the movie again, and see what it sticks in your craw.

jack

You know, it's not that at all.  But after this, and Pug's post, I think what I might do is simply not come back.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Melisande on January 09, 2006, 07:24:48 PM
She doesn't, Pug. Trust me on this.

I just had an unpleasant reminder of another board I used to visit, about a series of books. There was a group there known as Troos, for True Fans, who attacked anyone who didn't worship the books. Eventually the Troos drove out everyone who didn't agree with them, with the help of the management. Result, a very boring board. It's interesting to get a reaction from someone with a different viewpoint, and we welcome all viewpoints as long as they are politely expressed.  
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Hmmmm on January 09, 2006, 07:42:41 PM
There seems to be a correlation between a viewer's age and the emotional impact BBM has on that person.  My younger friends who have seen the movie thought it was sad, but weren't as devastated by it as I was (or as some of the other people on this board), and I don't think it's because they are emotional cripples (well, maybe one is).  I think it may be because they don't have that first-hand experience with loss, loneliness or a lifetime of regrets that many of us who are older have.  

My 14 year old son has been out about a year. He saw BBM before Christmas.  He sees a tremendous number of movies and considers this one of the best love stories he has ever seen.  He found it very sad and impactful.  So impactful that he is not sure that he will see it for a long long time, perhaps forever.  There are a few films like that for him.  These are a handful of movies that he is glad to have seen but where so sad and impactful that he will not choose to see then for a long time.

Even though it was very emotionally saddening, I imagine he does not "see himself in it" to the extent that those that grew up in the 60-80s and earlier feel. He simply expects to be openly gay in his life and so while deeply saddened by the lives in the movie, the movie does not parallel his life experiences so far.  That is not entirely true I guess because he had an inner struggle before he came out but none of the deeper concealment or lost opportunities that Jack and Ennis experience.

The movie has not made it to our town yet but my wife and I are definitely going to see it.  Even though we are in a town of less than 50,000 we fully expect it will show in town here in the next 3-4 weeks.  If not we will make the 45 min drive.  We think it will play at the megaplex first and then in a second round in the arts theater after it exits the wide theater run.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: mary on January 09, 2006, 07:50:28 PM
You know, it's not that at all.  But after this, and Pug's post, I think what I might do is simply not come back.

knightmare, I'd like for you to stay - I've enjoyed hearing your perspective.  
I've had similar conversations with my sister - she has seen the film twice (both times with me) and while she liked the film, she is not consumed with it like I am.  I think her biggest interest in BBM is trying to figure out why I can't get it out of my mind.  And I think my husband assumes it's all a Jake crush (and while I don't deny a newfound interest in JG, that's not all of it)

So does this belong in the Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie or do we need a Friends and Family Reactions to our Reaction to the Movie   ;)
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Pug on January 09, 2006, 08:01:34 PM
Hmmmmm, what a great Dad. Gee whiz regarding Matt, I knew I was gay whenI was a small child. You just know. You know you're different. hard to explain.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Pug on January 09, 2006, 08:09:22 PM
I just remember being mesmerized by certain actors in movies. My Dad said he knew I was gay when I was 2! I just knew something was different.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: waynerman on January 09, 2006, 08:14:39 PM
I didn't want to know, either. I was very depressed when I came out...at the age of 25.

Is this off-topic? I don't think so. There may be a correlation between having mixed feelings about being gay and the depth to which this story affects us.

Frankly, I don't always believe people who say they've never had mixed feelings....
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Pug on January 09, 2006, 08:23:35 PM
For me, Brokeback Mountain is about missed opportunities. That is why it is so poignant and true.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Dave Cullen on January 09, 2006, 08:41:57 PM
She doesn't, Pug. Trust me on this.

I just had an unpleasant reminder of another board I used to visit, about a series of books. There was a group there known as Troos, for True Fans, who attacked anyone who didn't worship the books. Eventually the Troos drove out everyone who didn't agree with them, with the help of the management. Result, a very boring board. It's interesting to get a reaction from someone with a different viewpoint, and we welcome all viewpoints as long as they are politely expressed.  

Amen to that.

I feel really saddened if with lost someone just because she had a different viewpoint. We NEED people like that in the discussion.

Pug, this board is most certainly not exclusively for people who all love the film. It's called healthy debate. If someone has a differing opinion, by all means, debate them. But please don't EVER tell them they don't belong here.

And guys, nobody likes to be psychoanalyzed by an amateur psychologist, especially one that has never met them. Think back to how pissed off you got when someone tried to tell you what you were thinking. I'm not going to say you can't do that, but think twice, and don't be surprised when you find a very angry person on your hands.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Pug on January 09, 2006, 09:02:49 PM

Quote
It's called healthy debate. If someone has a differing opinion, by all means, debate them. But please don't EVER tell them they don't belong here.

Dave,
I dont recall ever telling knightmare that. Read my posts. And I did mean to post something in between this post and my last to knightmare but got sidetracked. I agree with what you said.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: BillN on January 09, 2006, 09:15:09 PM

There seems to be a correlation between a viewer's age and the emotional impact BBM has on that person.  My younger friends who have seen the movie thought it was sad, but weren't as devastated by it as I was (or as some of the other people on this board), and I don't think it's because they are emotional cripples (well, maybe one is).  I think it may be because they don't have that first-hand experience with loss, loneliness or a lifetime of regrets that many of us who are older have.  
Quote

I think WLAGuy and Hmmmm have hit on something that has been previously hinted at, BBM has more impact on those of us who are older. I also think that younger people see a lifetime ahead of themselves and are not looking back, and they have not had the chance to build up regrets over time. I knew when I was in my teens and then twenties that the price for being gay could be severe, that I would be despised and maybe even physically assaulted. I've had the time to learn many stories from other men, many of them have not been happy stories. My generation did not expect to be able to live a pleasant life as an "out" person, today's younger people have that option in most any large city and many suburbs. We each bring to the movie our own unique experiences, those of us that are older, have different experiences than someone in their twenties or younger.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: sparky on January 09, 2006, 09:19:28 PM
In my viewing yesterday, I went with one of my dearest friends. The crowd was mostly straight. Older couples, married couples. A few small groups of lesbians. I saw a couple guys who may or may not have been gay. A little snickering at the discovery scene. Silence in the tent scenes. Audible gasps at the postcard. I saw many look away during the tire iron scene. I know I had to last time. Many people stayed for the credits, and my friend and I stayed til the very end of them. She was perhaps not as much a wreck as me. I went through about six giant napkins this time around. But I also have a cold. From the fight scene onward I was biting a knuckle, and breathing through my mouth.
My friend was very upset and thought it was a beautiful film.

I noticed a few things this time I missed before. The line "We are working together so we might as well start drinking together" was not in there. I thought it was. And no one had ever mentioned that shot of Jack in the trailer standing shirtless on a bridge. Where the hell has that gone ? And where would it be in the film ?  Also, has anyone else noticed that the first line uttered after the breakdown in the alley is "Lead us not into temptation but deliever us from evil" ? I thought that was pretty interesting.

I've got to say that the phone call never hit me this hard. That scene is really a killer. Props to Hathaway.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Pug on January 09, 2006, 09:22:36 PM
Maybe a little OT but..Are any of you old enough to remember "Splendor in the Grass" with Warren Beaty (his first film) and Natalie Wood? That film had an incredibily profound impact on me as a teenager. There is a lot of that in Brokeback Mountain.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Dathan on January 10, 2006, 01:35:00 AM
Maybe a little OT but..Are any of you old enough to remember "Splendor in the Grass" with Warren Beaty (his first film) and Natalie Wood? That film had an incredibily profound impact on me as a teenager. There is a lot of that in Brokeback Mountain.

Splendor or grass?  ;)  I say both.  Don't you?  Yeah it could be a real tear jerker also.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Dathan on January 10, 2006, 01:43:04 AM
3rd viewing for me tonight or last night rather. That's why I'm still up with this buzz.  Drove 30 miles to nw side of town to see it on a new screen as opposed to the old art(deco)house theatre. BIG difference.  Kind of a rainy night(thats like snow and ice for the rest of the nation) here so thought it might be just a few for the 10:20 show.  Surprised to see almost 200 people.  Ofcourse a lot of the colleges haven't started back yet.  The audience was very reverent.  Not even a slight giggle with Alma's great awakening or when Jack is driving and crying.  That was sooooo comforting.  Definitely a plus to see and hear on a new system.  Hell I heard the wind blowing and never heard it in my other viewings.  I could actually hear Heath. :)
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: sparky on January 10, 2006, 02:08:33 AM
This is not really about audience reaction, but kind of. It so spectacularly annoyed me that I have to write about it.

Earlier this evening I spoke with a long time friend. She lives in the bay area. She is a skilled artist who has written books and has her own television show. I have known her for over ten years. After catching up with all the personal and mutual friend news I brought up BBM. Of course I raved and ranted about the intense personal impact it has had upon me. I even mentioned this forum.

She then told me she had previously decided not to see it. Not to see it. This Master's graduate of UCLA film school. Why?
Because she had seen Nathan Lane on Letterman. Evidently, during his appearance, he shrieked " I wish I knew how to quit you !" followed by "Come on guys, buy a ranch and quit torturing those women."
So, during the previews, this avid movie goer, artist, and all around fantastic person saw the previews and felt the whole thing was just a joke. She couldn't get that silly queen out of her head when she thought of the film.

Damn, that made me mad. Now she promised me she and her boyfriend are going to see it. But I cannot get past the annoyance I have for Nathan Lane. What a joke of a human being he is anyway. A cardboard cutout of a gay man who has less testosterone in his entire body than Chrissie Hynde has in her pinky. I never really liked him. Now I loathe him. Does this guy have anything in common with most gay men other than his sexual preference ?  No. Is he anything more than walking, talking, lisping, shrieking stereotype ? Damn. I am so mad I could spit.

Am I just being Brokeback sensitive ?
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Chris on January 10, 2006, 02:20:24 AM
sparky

Take a number we all have been in that same situation!   :D
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Pug on January 10, 2006, 04:19:36 AM
Ugh what a stupid remark..anything for a laugh. Now Nathan Lane is on my list of people I can't stand, too. >:(
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: ozwitch on January 10, 2006, 06:52:53 AM
Well, I just went to the Australian premiere of BBM. I got a free ticket I didn't expect so I was incredibly happy to be in there. But. . .

The audience was the vanity crowd type of people who go to big events and don't give a flying f*ck about the content, just want to guzzle down free champagne and see who else is watching them. So this mob (about 800) didn't feel like avid moviegoers to me and it really quite ruined it for me. They laughed in lots of places, though not inappropriately, but I never got the feeling anybody was very connected with the film or that they really felt the emotional power of it at all.

Plus the projector had to throw about 50 metres and the bulb wasn't up to it so the image was very dark. I know people have said it's a dark film, but I totally missed out on the tent kissing scene which was so dark it was like a drive in and well, all those little details weren't available that all you guys have seen . . .

But the main point I have is that the cinema didn't suit the type of film BBM is. Which is small and intimate, and the kind of film you want to have all to yourself and not share with a bunch of champagne guzzlers. I almost think it should be seen by about 100 people or less so you get that personal feel you don't get in big cinemas. Next time I'll go in the daytime when it's on a smaller screen, with other people like me who have to pay for a ticket and therefore care about seeing it.

Anybody else see this in a big cinema and wish they had a smaller one instead?
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: jack on January 10, 2006, 07:14:59 AM
I didn't have the emotional impact from the movie that everyone else has had, and I don't think myself an emotional cripple.

it must be having some effect on you or you wouldn't be coming back and commenting here.  maybe you really haven't figured out where the hook is yet, but it appears to have caught.  i am sure there are more fun and sexy forums with a more age appropriate crowd or less tightly specific subject matter, but you choose to be with us.  why not try puttinig BBM out of your mind for a week or so, and see if you still feel like talking about it.  if you do, i think you might want to read the story and/or see the movie again, and see what it sticks in your craw.

jack

You know, it's not that at all.  But after this, and Pug's post, I think what I might do is simply not come back.

okay, i am not above taking a little inventory, and where i am wrong acknowledging it, so i reviewed this with a pretty critical eye.  it seems to me that one would have to have been waiting for a putdown to have found one in my comment.  i stand by an assessment that some connection to this film must exist to merit multiple visits to this forum with the panoply of choices available on the web, and add that it is worthwhile trying to figure out what that subliminal hook is.  i also think stepping back for a few days is a good way to do that, and this is precisely what i suggested.  and, i think reading the story is like shining a maglite in a dark corner, unexpected crannies are revealed.

for any offensive word choice or inferred tone, i apologise, but my intent and views were and are without malice.

jack
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: lauren on January 10, 2006, 08:53:16 AM

Anybody else see this in a big cinema and wish they had a smaller one instead?

The Arclight theater in Hollywood has been the best one yet, but the suburban theater here (though a great screen) has drawn people (the last two times anyway) that have responded with quite a bit of uncomfortable giggling and and some disapproving sorts of moans at the hotel scene. I'd not heard that kind of reaction before and I think it's an anomoly (hope so anyway). As the film progresses, everyone always gets very quiet. I'm going to see it today at noon in hopes for a different crowd.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: rjc on January 10, 2006, 10:32:10 AM
sparky,

I would be less upset with Nathan Lane than I would be with my friend.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Chris on January 10, 2006, 10:36:43 AM
A smaller theater gets one involved in the movie.  There are four screenings running hourly from 1:00PM to 10:00PM here.  I have seen shows in MEGAPLEXES and the noise level was unbearable and the people moving around.  One cannot get into the viewing if distracted.     And it still is going strong!  http://www.loewscineplex.com/nowshowing/showtimedetails.cfm?new_theaterid=AABXW&showall=yes&CFID=19832988&CFTOKEN=42457970

(http://www.eitb24.com/archivos/imagenes/eitb24/cultura/2006/01/05/GM2006010516244720__Brokeback-mountain_2006010516244713xm1.jpg)
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Luckie Starchild on January 10, 2006, 11:33:34 AM
It seems to me that we're now hitting the wave of people who are going to see BBM with some skepticism after hearing people rave so much.  I guess that happens a lot.

I do respect that we're all going to have diverse reactions... it just seemed my friend walked into the movie with the an attitude highly doubting that it was that good.  She added that it was a brave film to make and that she could understand why it made for political reasons.  But in my mind, the film stands on its own and is not trying to be political.  I have a feeling that if she had seen it without hearing the all hype, she may have been more receptive.

Luckie
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: DGB on January 10, 2006, 01:27:57 PM
"The movie represents an amazing balancing act; it may be about homosexual characters, but it's also shot through with a rugged and familiar romanticism that draws strength from strongly expressed individualism. The sorrow of Brokeback is palpable, but it's steeped in a gritty Western spirit that knows how to tough things out.

As Ennis Del Mar, the character played by Ledger, says at one point, "If you can't fix it, you've got to stand it."

There's not a big-screen cowboy from John Wayne to Clint Eastwood who couldn't have made that line work. Gay or straight, cowboys don't whine. They suffer in silence. "  Robert Denerstein, columnist for Rocky Mountain News 1/7/06

I thought these comments about BBM to right on target.  Recommend reading the whole article.

From lynn -- I added the link here - http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/spotlight_columnists/article/0,2777,DRMN_23962_4368922,00.html
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: jack on January 10, 2006, 01:55:42 PM

DGB... link?

and luckie et al,

and after that wave, by a bit no doubt, come the timid, or closeted, or home bound, or thrifty who buy or rent the DVD.  then we will lbe awash, i think, with ecstatic and suicidally depressed people, and everything in between.  i suspect it behooves us to comfort and cheer each other because its the right thing to do, and because i think some folks are going to need us intact.  i take the emotional component of this very seriously.

jack
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: DGB on January 10, 2006, 02:15:15 PM
Sorry Jack,
I kind of new at this and didn't get the link.  But put Rocky Mountain News in a search or Robert Denerstein and you should get a hit that will take you to the article.  I had been through two or three links before I got to the article and didn't think to save it before I left.
Let those of us who are here now be ready to help those who come later to know both the pain and the love that is BBM and the community that is building behind it.

From lynn -- I added the link to your original post above
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: sparky on January 10, 2006, 03:10:03 PM
sparky,

I would be less upset with Nathan Lane than I would be with my friend.

You know, I thought about that briefly. But, I know her well enough to know she has no hangups
about the subject matter. And I can truly see her being unable to get the image of that goofy queen
out of her head. So...Mr. Lane gets the brunt of my annoyance. Never liked him anyway.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Timothy on January 10, 2006, 06:18:37 PM
I’ve seen BBM three times now and each time the experience is different.

At my second viewing the guy next to me was sniffing so much I was almost annoyed.  But its hard to be upset with someone who has tears dripping off their chin.

On my way out I followed two young straight couples in their early 20’s.  I had to laugh because one guy said “that was so sad” and then immediately had to trip his friend to break the tension.  The last time I saw it no one anywhere around me said a word from their seats to the door.

I see that some here are upset by the laughing when Alma sees the kiss.  I actually think that is a normal response and to be expected if there are gay people in the audience.  If you don’t know the story, you assume that what comes next is in line with every other gay movie you’ve seen.  Obviously this is where there is some big confrontation, like every other single solitary gay film ever made (if I exagerate, it isn't by much).  So the laughing is one of those “oooh, there’s gunna be drama” laughs.

When, instead of a catfight, the camera shows you a woman sobbing while her world disintegrates, the audience becomes echoingly silent.  And this contrast between what is expected and what actually follows contributes to the feeling of emotional devastation.

Lastly, I’m not surprised that there isn’t much applause at the end of the film.  Although there was some in my third viewing, there was none the first time I saw it.  I understood why – it’s hard to applaud while you’re dabbing your eyes (a friend I took that did NOT want to see it was busy rubbing his nose and scratching his eyebrows trying not to let me see him wipe away tears).  I haven’t clapped yet.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: PennQuaker on January 10, 2006, 07:28:47 PM
My folks, both just under 80, responded to my gentle harangue and saw Brokeback today, in Lancaster PA (that's right, the PA Dutch country).  Getting around isn't easy for them -- they're at the age where they bought a new house  "so they could be all on one floor."  They restrict their travel to absolute necessities.  They haven't made the 70 mile trip here to Philadelphia in almost 15 years. 

They're tremendously decent, salt-of-the-earth people, despite a general outlook that makes them typical of the deep-red state region they live in.  They've intellectually accepted who I am since my late teens (30 years), but there's always been an unfathomable emptiness in our relationship.  I've never been able to get beyond their old world morality and completely communicate to them what it means to be, and to need something, that contradicts such a fundamental part of their conventions. 

They're very well-read, and can appreciate anything well made, so I restricted my "sales pitch" to the film's artistic merits (thanks, Ang, for such a fruitful pit to mine!).  I likened it to older films to set the mood for them ("Hud," "The Last Picture Show").  But I prayed they'd both understand why it was so important to me that they go. 

My mother dutifully emailed immediately upon their return from the showing:  "Don thought it was worth breaking his 30-year theater boycott.  Wish I could be there to give you a hug.  Beautiful picture."

My folks are Ennisian in their economy of words, and stingier yet with their feelings.  For them to send me the foregoing is just huge. 

I sat down, put the soundtrack on, and collapsed into the kind of cathartic bawling I haven't experienced since I was a kid.  My folks finally understand something of my life.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Scott88 on January 10, 2006, 08:03:04 PM
PennQuaker, I'm so happy for you!  I can only imagine how meaningful your mother's email was to you.  Sometimes parents can surprise us, can't they?
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Sam in Chicago on January 10, 2006, 09:53:48 PM
Wow, PennQuaker, that's so amazing. Thank you for telling us about it.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: BillN on January 10, 2006, 10:59:27 PM


My mother dutifully emailed immediately upon their return from the showing:  "Don thought it was worth breaking his 30-year theater boycott.  Wish I could be there to give you a hug.  Beautiful picture."

My folks are Ennisian in their economy of words, and stingier yet with their feelings.  For them to send me the foregoing is just huge. 

I sat down, put the soundtrack on, and collapsed into the kind of cathartic bawling I haven't experienced since I was a kid.  My folks finally understand something of my life.

What a wonderful thing, better than a large hug. And I know the tears were of joy.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: ozwitch on January 11, 2006, 12:54:23 AM
If you go here:

http://www.theage.com.au

you can play a video of the red carpet last night in Melbourne. Heath and Michelle answer questions, help out a clumsy photographer and talk about the BAN, and also their new baby.

Heath:
   
Quote
yeah, she's about eleven weeks old, she had a big opening weekend, and there's probably going to be a sequel
very cute.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: lena on January 11, 2006, 08:21:46 AM
I wasn't sure where to post this - I went to see Mary McBride last night in NYC.  ("Noone's gonna love you like I do", from the soundrack, and singing the song in the scene with Jack dancing with Lureen in the bar the first time they speak).

She gave the movie a fabulous shout out - told us she was asked if she'd be interetested in performing in a movie, and agreed.  They asked her to fly out to Calgary and she knew nothing about the movie other than it was about "a couple cowboys" (sweet that she left out "gay").  Proceeded to tell the audience that she had no idea her hair would turn out as big as it did, and that she had no idea how honored she would be to be part of such a fabulous movie.  The audience - mostly straight - cheered and clapped.  Not surprising - remember, we're in NYC - but it was nice to be in another venue and see the respect this movie has.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: steve on January 11, 2006, 08:30:45 AM
Posted on: Yesterday at 07:28:47 PMPosted by: PennQuaker
Quote
They're tremendously decent, salt-of-the-earth people, despite a general outlook that makes them typical of the deep-red state region they live in.  They've intellectually accepted who I am since my late teens (30 years), but there's always been an unfathomable emptiness in our relationship.  I've never been able to get beyond their old world morality and completely communicate to them what it means to be, and to need something, that contradicts such a fundamental part of their conventions. 

Quote
My mother dutifully emailed immediately upon their return from the showing:  "Don thought it was worth breaking his 30-year theater boycott.  Wish I could be there to give you a hug.  Beautiful picture."

Wow, congratulations PennQuaker!  That is quite a story.  My parents are about the same age and very (Mormon) conservative.  With Bush in the White House and me and 1 of my brothers being gay, our family is barely on speaking terms.  My gay brother lamented to me following Christmas that after mom and dad die, our family (8 kids)  will disintegrate. It sounds like your parents are finally starting to understand you.  Congratulations again!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: lynn on January 11, 2006, 09:01:45 AM
I see that some here are upset by the laughing when Alma sees the kiss.  I actually think that is a normal response and to be expected if there are gay people in the audience. 

Tim, in the audiences I was in, it was middle-aged straight women laughing at this scene. I'm starting to think it is a reaction to the incredible roller-coaster of emotions played out in just seconds: the elation of the reunion, relief, passion... and an immediate cut to the darkest despair on Alma' face. Maybe some people just express their reaction as a nervous type of laughter. Others are probably used to silly romantic comedies where, like you said, there would be some sort of confrontation scene at this point.

I guess we have to accept that not everyone in the theater is as familiar with the story as we are and as prepared for a deep, emotional journey rather than some light entertainment.

Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Ella on January 11, 2006, 09:40:33 AM
Hello, this is my first post on this site, and I have a lot to say!
One reaction I wanted to share with you all is about a friend of mine who is the highly emotional kind, cries at just about any movie, or anything in life. She said that she didn't shed a tear at BBM, that the movie did nothing to her as Jack and Ennis failed to convince her of their love, since they were never very loving towards each other. The only thing that stirred her were the sex scene and the kissing scene, and that was it. I was shocked, specially coming from her. She said she didn't know why aside than that she didn't feel anything. She is not homophobic in any way I know.
Have any of you hear people speak like this?
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: steve on January 11, 2006, 09:43:27 AM
I ran into this interesting article in the paper yesterday that shows attitudes in Wyoming haven't changed much from when this story takes place in 1965.  (Of course we already knew that from Mathew Shepherd's story, but apparently even Mathew's murder  didn't reduce prejudice much.)  Hate and prejudice still reigns supreme in Wyoming (and Utah.)  The concept that there are no Gay cowboys is laughable, as anyone that has been out in the gay world knows.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Deseret Morning News, Tuesday, January 10, 2006 (Salt Lake City)
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635175183,00.html

Cowboy country saying 'whoa!' to 'Brokeback'

By Doug Robinson
Deseret Morning News

 Ask one of the locals like Julie Greer how they feel in rural Wyoming about "Brokeback Mountain," the gay-cowboy movie, and you don't have to wait long to get a reaction.

"Yeah, we're offended!" she shoots back. "Because they called those sheepherders cowboys."

It doesn't get any worse than that. But a close second is to call a cowboy gay. Not that there's anything wrong with that (as Seinfeld says). Well, actually, they think there is, and they don't care if city slickers like it or not. If you want to see a cowboy get out of his saddle in a nanosecond, ask him if he is dating the guy on the next horse.

"People are offended that nothing is sacred anymore," says Greer, who works at the Hyattville post office. "People are talking about it. They won't go to the theater to see it."

You knew this movie wouldn't go over big in the Broken Back Mountain area of Wyoming, where the same families have worked the range for more than 100 years. "Almost everyone on the crick has been here for at least a couple of generations," says rancher Maurice Bush, whose grandfather arrived here in 1898.

They are salt-of-the-earth people. They live quietly. They see more cattle than people. They scratch out a living in hard-bitten country. They are blue collar and Republican, and they mind their own business.

So when "Brokeback Mountain" hit movie theaters around the United States, they wondered exactly how they got dragged into this thing.

"I didn't even know what the movie was about," says Bush. "When someone told me, I thought, 'Where the devil did they get an idea like that?' That's pretty much been the reaction of everyone up here."

If you haven't heard, "Brokeback Mountain" is about two gay cowboys. It's set in Wyoming, apparently near Brokeback Mountain, although the real place is called Broken Back Mountain, located in the Big Horn Mountains in north-central Wyoming. The nearest town is Ten Sleep (Pop. 340), which was settled in 1882 by cattle and sheep ranchers. Before that, it was a favorite destination of two Indian tribes that visited the place annually to make arrowheads. It took them 10 sleeps — or 10 nights — to get to the region.

This is home to cowboys. Not the kind who just wear the hats, like country-western singers but men who actually sit in a saddle. They are a long way from political correctness and gay politics out here.

"The story could be set in some fictional place, but it wasn't," says Ten Sleep native Bob Wood. "They made it personal. They plopped it down in a specific place. People in a small town take a lot of pride in who they are, and that's not who they are. This isn't New York. And then set it in 1963, right? In 1963, they'd make fun of a man if he wore shorts."

"I can't think of an area that would be more offended," says Rondo Fehlberg, who grew up in nearby Worland.

Dahl Mills, who sells beautiful horses on Broken Back Ranch, read the book from which the movie originated as part of her book club. "We all hated it," she says.

Author Annie Proulx says she got the idea for her short story — which led to the movie — in a Wyoming bar when she saw one cowboy watching a bunch of other cowboys play pool instead of looking at the pretty girls.

"My dad and grandpas are turning over in their graves," says Wood.

Ten Sleep residents won't be able to see the movie even if they want to. The nearest theater is in Worland — current show: "King Kong."

Says Bob Vines, managing editor of the local newspaper, "I would be surprised if ("Brokeback") plays here in Worland."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Robinson's column runs on Tuesdays. Please e-mail drob@desnews.com.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
© 2006 Deseret News Publishing Company 
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Jack Nasty on January 11, 2006, 10:02:48 AM
I see they are more than glad to embrace their stereotypes!

So sad.  :'(
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Hmmmm on January 11, 2006, 10:07:58 AM
Hello, this is my first post on this site, and I have a lot to say!
One reaction I wanted to share with you all is about a friend of mine who is the highly emotional kind, cries at just about any movie, or anything in life. She said that she didn't shed a tear at BBM, that the movie did nothing to her as Jack and Ennis failed to convince her of their love, since they were never very loving towards each other. The only thing that stirred her were the sex scene and the kissing scene, and that was it. I was shocked, specially coming from her. She said she didn't know why aside than that she didn't feel anything. She is not homophobic in any way I know.
Have any of you hear people speak like this?

There are other comments here and there of where a person did not connect to the movie in a strong emotional way.  Of course that can certainly happen on any movie or book for any particular person on any particular day for whatever reason.  I just may be the way it struck her and it never will be clear why she did not connect.

What is her age?  There is a notion that if one is younger and so life is a future of possibilities they may not connect one on "plane" of the movie as one who is older and has regrets to compare to the movie.  The person with regrets can personally and emotionally identify with the characters directly rather than as an observer.  That does not preclude that her experience could have been one of strong empathy and be drawn in that way.

It sounds like your friend though just never got convinced of the love in Brokeback and so did not get pulled in.  The movie just did not reach her for whatever reason.  It happens.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Ella on January 11, 2006, 10:08:40 AM
Interesting article. I happen to live in Wyoming,and can confirm that there are only 2 theaters showing BBM, in Jackson and Laramie. Hard to believe but true.

I think it's a shame people in Wyoming are taking the story so literally as if it meant that every man is gay. They are not able to see that it is the story of 2 people, a tragic love story, and one of a kind. They feel offended because Wyoming is such a macho state! I know what I'm talking about, it's full of "rough-necks" and that's not always pretty. They are not usually very educated people, they are very territorial, judgmental, and intolerant of anything they don't understand, thus BBM. If you put all this aside, they can also be great generous people, welcoming and hard-working, but that doesn't help us here. So they feel attacked in their maleness, and can't get over it. It's a shame but their reaction is to be expected. They just can't accept the fact that Wyoming, this harsh cowboy state could be home to some gay cowboys. No wonder they feel offended. I say open your eyes, and your heart, see further than your county boundary and know that this tragic story is not total fiction, and that there are people who suffer, who die (M. Shepherd) because of your narrow-mindedness.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: WLAGuy on January 11, 2006, 10:22:58 AM
Interesting article. I happen to live in Wyoming,and can confirm that there are only 2 theaters showing BBM, in Jackson and Laramie. Hard to believe but true.

I think it's a shame people in Wyoming are taking the story so literally as if it meant that every man is gay. They are not able to see that it is the story of 2 people, a tragic love story, and one of a kind. They feel offended because Wyoming is such a macho state! I know what I'm talking about, it's full of "rough-necks" and that's not always pretty. They are not usually very educated people, they are very territorial, judgmental, and intolerant of anything they don't understand, thus BBM. If you put all this aside, they can also be great generous people, welcoming and hard-working, but that doesn't help us here. So they feel attacked in their maleness, and can't get over it. It's a shame but their reaction is to be expected. They just can't accept the fact that Wyoming, this harsh cowboy state could be home to some gay cowboys. No wonder they feel offended. I say open your eyes, and your heart, see further than your county boundary and know that this tragic story is not total fiction, and that there are people who suffer, who die (M. Shepherd) because of your narrow-mindedness.

I think a large part of the problem is the reporters, who I'm sure start out the conversation with, "So, what do you think about that gay cowboy movie?"  There's a way to phrase questions so you immediately push the listener's buttons, and there's a way to make sure that doesn't happen.  It's much the same as the "leading question" concept in a trial.  The best reporters don't do that, of course, but some boob who's told by his editor "Go out and get a juicy quote from a real Wyoming cowboy" is going to do his best to do just that.  After all, how "juicy" would it be for one of the cowboys being interviewed to calmly say, "I'm going to reserve judgment until I see the movie"?
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: DGB on January 11, 2006, 10:23:53 AM
How sad for these people.  Offended by love.  And the thought that sheep and cows are still an issue is offensive to me as a human being.  For God's sake get an education.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Ella on January 11, 2006, 10:27:50 AM
How sad for these people.  Offended by love.  And the thought that sheep and cows are still an issue is offensive to me as a human being.  For God's sake get an education.

You are so right, it's amazing what education and traveling can do for someone. But here we are, cows vs. sheep, and believe me, it's quite a war in Wyoming, sheep herders are not liked. That does reflect the rest of the mentality...
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Hmmmm on January 11, 2006, 10:37:47 AM
You are so right, it's amazing what education and traveling can do for someone. But here we are, cows vs. sheep, and believe me, it's quite a war in Wyoming, sheep herders are not liked. That does reflect the rest of the mentality...

None of the people quoted had seen the movie so they don't really know the characters.   As I understand it though there is no question that one who participates in rodeo is considered a cowboy no matter what their day job is.  Heck the name of the professional association is Professional Rodeo Cowboys Association.

BTW I do think we should be careful and be aware that although there are people in Montana that match the depictions in the article there are others that do not.  The depictions may even match a high percentage of the rural population.  Even so it is an error to assume all in the state see things that way.  The same goes for thinking all of Utah thinks the same way.  Likewise a  sizable percentage of red state folks are "blue" and a sizable percentage of blue state folks are "red".

In this day of internet, satellite TV with 200 channels there are many different opinions in any local.  Yes there are clusters but no place is monolithic.  So we need to be careful about stereotyping.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: BillN on January 11, 2006, 11:14:24 AM
You are so right, it's amazing what education and traveling can do for someone. But here we are, cows vs. sheep, and believe me, it's quite a war in Wyoming, sheep herders are not liked. That does reflect the rest of the mentality...

None of the people quoted had seen the movie so they don't really know the characters.   As I understand it though there is no question that one who participates in rodeo is considered a cowboy no matter what their day job is.  Heck the name of the professional association is Professional Rodeo Cowboys Association.

BTW I do think we should be careful and be aware that although there are people in Montana that match the depictions in the article there are others that do not.  The depictions may even match a high percentage of the rural population.  Even so it is an error to assume all in the state see things that way.  The same goes for thinking all of Utah thinks the same way.  Likewise a  sizable percentage of red state folks are "blue" and a sizable percentage of blue state folks are "red".

In this day of internet, satellite TV with 200 channels there are many different opinions in any local.  Yes there are clusters but no place is monolithic.  So we need to be careful about stereotyping.

Hmmm, you are right on the fact that even in the "red" states, there are plenty of "blue" people and vice versa. The red vs blue is an invention of pundints who want to put things into black and white terms, when the real world is all shades of grey in between. Bush got plenty of votes in CA and Kerry in TX, and I wouldn't judge everyone in a state the same way.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: DGB on January 11, 2006, 11:26:50 AM
Hmmmm,

I grew up in rural cow country in the Sierra Foothills of California in the 50s & 60s., I know there are lots of diverse people.  But the strong influence of the old ways and the "right" thinking is strong in rural areas. If you don't fit in you won't survive. They will shun you and drive you out or worse.  It really hasn't changed that much.  You have to have money to have internet and satellite tv, etc.  These people don't.  Just like Ennis who's travels amounted to"a trip around the coffee pot to find the handle".  These people often can"t afford to go any where ever.  We can only hope that something like BBM will reach some and the changes will come. Even if slowly
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Ella on January 11, 2006, 04:35:15 PM
Yes, but it will take time, how knows how long? And I think this cowboy thing really has to do with a rural area. YOu probably would fing the same reaction in any rural place IN THE WORLD. I am foreign and I can guarantee you that there are many countrymen in my home country who would react the same. I wonder if it has to do with lack of education or exposure to the world.
Here in Wyoming, my hb works with a whole crew of guys that are "red necks". I've met a number of them, yikes... I know not the whole state is like them,  but they are the majority, sorry to tell you this, and they don't have an ounce of softness in them. My hb is not like them, but fits fine because he keeps to himself. That exactly illustrates the survival concept. He doesn't even want to ask them if any have seen BBM, it could really make it hell for him. Sad, isn't it?
So all I see is a general reaction from people who feel threatened, for a number of reasons, and that is simply universal. Only this movie happens to be in Wyoming, and its name inspired from a real place, so the very conservative people of Wyoming react in a very predictable way.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: jack on January 11, 2006, 06:25:49 PM
may i suggest a ray of sunshine in this bleak landscape of intolerance and ignorance?

as we know all to well, even ignorant and intolerant people with low incomes who work hard have gay children who are also ignorant, hard working and likely homophobic as hell themselves.  HOWEVER, you can bet that every one of those gay kids will find a way to buy rent or steal a copy of this flick, and they will cry, and cry.  i hope they find us, but they will never be the same.. and maybe, they will use this to break the news.

it is our love letter to extremely rural gays.

jack
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Ella on January 11, 2006, 06:30:11 PM
Good point, Jack. I hadn't thought of it this way, but you are right. Some of these people who are so intolerant might actually one day even decide to see BBM and change their mind. Fact is, things are changing, awareness is growing amongst all of us, and there is hope for a more tolerant society.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: lynn on January 11, 2006, 08:11:40 PM
Now here's some good news: a report from a Savannah, Georgia TV station on positive reaction by filmgoers. The fact that this was considered worthy of a TV news story reflects the conservative nature of this "Deep South" city.

http://www.wtoctv.com/Global/story.asp?S=4351404
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: BillN on January 11, 2006, 10:39:46 PM
Now here's some good news: a report from a Savannah, Georgia TV station on positive reaction by filmgoers. The fact that this was considered worthy of a TV news story reflects the conservative nature of this "Deep South" city.

http://www.wtoctv.com/Global/story.asp?S=4351404

Lynn, Savannah may not be typical of a smaller city in the deep south, many people have moved there as part of the restoration of the historic part of town. It was also the setting for the popular book, Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil, which had a gay theme as part of the story. What is very surprising is that only a handful of people were in the theartre for the other movies, while BBM had 29.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: lynn on January 12, 2006, 04:51:05 AM
Hmm, thanks for the correction Bill. I'm afraid that was my inner Yankee talking.   :D
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Luckie Starchild on January 12, 2006, 04:07:45 PM
Hello, this is my first post on this site, and I have a lot to say!
One reaction I wanted to share with you all is about a friend of mine who is the highly emotional kind, cries at just about any movie, or anything in life. She said that she didn't shed a tear at BBM, that the movie did nothing to her as Jack and Ennis failed to convince her of their love, since they were never very loving towards each other. The only thing that stirred her were the sex scene and the kissing scene, and that was it. I was shocked, specially coming from her. She said she didn't know why aside than that she didn't feel anything. She is not homophobic in any way I know.
Have any of you hear people speak like this?
This friend of mine had a similar reaction.  BBM did not move her in the least.  She cried during Braveheart and Lord of the Rings... but BBM was not compelling to her and was not believable. 

Okay, here's my new policy... I am going to hold a grudge against anyone who does not love BBM.  I know I'm crazy but that's the way it's gonna be and no one can stop me, sorry!  :P

Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Hmmmm on January 13, 2006, 10:44:05 AM
Here is a link to an article on positive reaction in Grand Rapids Michigan.  The article in the paper claims that this is generally considered a conservative part of Michigan.

Brokeback Breaks Norms - Grand Rapids Press
http://www.mlive.com/entertainment/grpress/index.ssf?/base/entertainment-1/113716711750370.xml&coll=6

A quote from the article:

"Thousands of Grand Rapids movie-goers flocked to the local opening of "Brokeback Mountain" last weekend, perhaps defying the "conservative Western Michigan" stereotype."

Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: jack on January 13, 2006, 10:52:55 AM
here's an even more astounding quote from that article:

The controversial film, about two star-crossed cowboys in love that has garnered numerous award nominations and is an expected Oscar contender, was the No. 1 film in Grand Rapids, trumping such steady hits as "The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe" and "King Kong."

whooo eee

jack
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Hmmmm on January 13, 2006, 11:06:51 AM
here's an even more astounding quote from that article:

The controversial film, about two star-crossed cowboys in love that has garnered numerous award nominations and is an expected Oscar contender, was the No. 1 film in Grand Rapids, trumping such steady hits as "The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe" and "King Kong."

whooo eee

jack

It really could be the number one show since it just opened there.

I wasn't sure if they made an error in the way they wrote that sentence or not.  Elsewhere they say screen per screen which makes me think they are comparing $/screen. On the other hand the sentence is pretty clear about trumping Narnia and Kong.

I am fine with taking their statement at face value  :)

Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: brokebacktom on January 13, 2006, 12:03:24 PM
Love this site!!  I seen it three times.

1st time by myself in an artsy theater. It was 80% full on a Tuesday afternoon. The audience was mostly mixxed.  A elderly lesbian couple was in front of me holding hands. Maybe 65-70 yrs old.  A ladie behind me was crying in last 20 minutes of the movie.  I ran out numb and cried that night.  I hada connection w/ Ennis that I felt I hope I don't become someone like that. My Chrismas was sucked because of the effect of this movie.  No one laughed at Alma seeing the kiss in this audience.

2nd time saw in the same theater with a co-worker firend. Again no laughter when Alma saw the kiss, but this time there were "oooohs" and "oh nos." The audience was mixxed straights w/ more gay couples. It was 80% full a 8pm on a Tuesday night. Left w/ a tear in my eyes along w/ my friend.

3rd time in a bigger theater w/ 3 friends on New Years Day @ 7:30pm.  The theater was 80-85% full.  The Audience was mostly straight couples-middle aged.  With many gay friends or coules going to see the movie. This time there was laughter when Alma swa the kiss.  Than after that everything went quiet.  Realizing that her whole world came to a hault. My 3 friends loved it and plan on going again. 

I only of 2 people that didn't like it.  A gay co-worker, for he did not like Jack cheating on Ennis. And that there was no romance in the movie.  The other was a lesbian friend of mine. She thought it was too slow, and viewed Ennis's and Jack's backgroud as a way for the Christain Right to justify their views that Homosexuality is caused by actions not by nature. (I hope people understand this). 

Plan on going again but maybe when the Ascors come out.  Tom in MN
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: WLAGuy on January 13, 2006, 01:26:53 PM
Love this site!!  I seen it three times.

1st time by myself in an artsy theater. It was 80% full on a Tuesday afternoon. The audience was mostly mixxed.  A elderly lesbian couple was in front of me holding hands. Maybe 65-70 yrs old.  A ladie behind me was crying in last 20 minutes of the movie.  I ran out numb and cried that night.  I hada connection w/ Ennis that I felt I hope I don't become someone like that. My Chrismas was sucked because of the effect of this movie.  No one laughed at Alma seeing the kiss in this audience.

2nd time saw in the same theater with a co-worker firend. Again no laughter when Alma saw the kiss, but this time there were "oooohs" and "oh nos." The audience was mixxed straights w/ more gay couples. It was 80% full a 8pm on a Tuesday night. Left w/ a tear in my eyes along w/ my friend.

3rd time in a bigger theater w/ 3 friends on New Years Day @ 7:30pm.  The theater was 80-85% full.  The Audience was mostly straight couples-middle aged.  With many gay friends or coules going to see the movie. This time there was laughter when Alma swa the kiss.  Than after that everything went quiet.  Realizing that her whole world came to a hault. My 3 friends loved it and plan on going again. 

I only of 2 people that didn't like it.  A gay co-worker, for he did not like Jack cheating on Ennis. And that there was no romance in the movie.  The other was a lesbian friend of mine. She thought it was too slow, and viewed Ennis's and Jack's backgroud as a way for the Christain Right to justify their views that Homosexuality is caused by actions not by nature. (I hope people understand this). 

Plan on going again but maybe when the Ascors come out.  Tom in MN

Interesting reactions from your friends, Tom.  Had either of them read the story before seeing the movie?
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: brokebacktom on January 13, 2006, 08:53:57 PM
Hi WLAGUY

The answer to your question is NO!!! 
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: terry on January 13, 2006, 09:23:33 PM
I saw the film in one of the century theaters here (Union City to be exact).  When I came in, the theater was empty with the exception of two rowdy young men sitting way at the top.  Great, I thought.  They're probably gonna start making inane comments during the movie.  About ten minutes before the start, a throng of people came in.  Not a full house but not bad for the first showing.  The audience was mainly quiet but fell to dead silence during the two main love scenes.  The only rousing response was the Thanksgiving dinner when Jack tells his father-in-law off.  I even heard the two young men in the back yelling their support!!  This is my fourth time seeing this movie.  The first several times were in San Francisco.  I'm glad there wasn't any inappropriate laughter or giggling.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: NYC-lovesbbm on January 13, 2006, 09:52:34 PM
I like this new topic - 2 friends of mine who saw the movie said they couldn't understand Heath/Ennis because he was mumbling - I said to see the movie again & pay closer attention, one even said he'd need to see it again with subtitles.

Anyone hear similar things?
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: kw on January 13, 2006, 10:07:18 PM
I'm very upset tonight
I went see the 9:30 pm show in New York's Chelsea (my 3rd viewing)
the theater is 100% packed
mostly young straight people
they laugh at almost EVERY scene
including the kissing
my experience is completely ruined
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: BillN on January 13, 2006, 11:02:08 PM
I'm very upset tonight
I went see the 9:30 pm show in New York's Chelsea (my 3rd viewing)
the theater is 100% packed
mostly young straight people
they laugh at almost EVERY scene
including the kissing
my experience is completely ruined

KW, sounds like you will need a #4 now to make up for this. It is interesting that the posts seem to indicate that older audiences take the movie more seriously, while young people don't - could it be the difference in the experience level or maturity?
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: WLAGuy on January 14, 2006, 12:21:31 AM
Hi WLAGUY

The answer to your question is NO!!! 

I thought that might be the case.  It sounded from their comments like they weren't familiar with the story, and I guess someone who saw the movie cold might come away with those impressions. 
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Alijoon on January 14, 2006, 02:37:08 AM
the first time i saw the movie, it was with 14 gay guys and 2 straight women, in Dupont Circle, the gay area of Washignton DC.

all but one of the guys loved it, and i cried along with the two women adn three or four of my friends.  What bothered me was that there was some laughing when ennis's wife catches the kiss.. the audience was mainly gay, and it was just weird, to laugh at that part.



the second time is saw it i went with my two best friends and all three of us cried.. it was more of a mixed audience, gay and straight.


the third time, i went in the burbs, cried again, and the audience was young and straight and mostly women. it may have been just my imagination, but they did not seem as riveted as  the other audiences.  After the movie ended, the straight guys looked uncomfortable beign seen coming out of the theater.

Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Alijoon on January 14, 2006, 02:40:10 AM
the first time i saw the movie, it was with 14 gay guys and 2 straight women, in Dupont Circle, the gay area of Washignton DC.

all but one of the guys loved it, and i cried along with the two women adn three or four of my friends.  What bothered me was that there was some laughing when ennis's wife catches the kiss.. the audience was mainly gay, and it was just weird, to laugh at that part.



the second time is saw it i went with my two best friends and all three of us cried.. it was more of a mixed audience, gay and straight, even though it was at dupont. interestingly, i think word of mouth persuaded many people to attend the film.


the third time, i went in the burbs, cried again, and the audience was young and straight and mostly women.  After the movie ended, the straight guys looked uncomfortable beign seen coming out of the theater.  I caught many conversations of how hot jake was....  i never go to movies alone, but it was very theraputic seeing BBM a third time, and by myself.

every time i see the movie i catch somethign new. that ang lee is a genious.


Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: ottoblom on January 14, 2006, 07:05:07 AM
Hello, this is my first post on this site, and I have a lot to say!
One reaction I wanted to share with you all is about a friend of mine who is the highly emotional kind, cries at just about any movie, or anything in life. She said that she didn't shed a tear at BBM, that the movie did nothing to her as Jack and Ennis failed to convince her of their love, since they were never very loving towards each other. The only thing that stirred her were the sex scene and the kissing scene, and that was it. I was shocked, specially coming from her. She said she didn't know why aside than that she didn't feel anything. She is not homophobic in any way I know.
Have any of you hear people speak like this?

I just wondered if your friend had adjusted her opinion with time.  The movie was very dry eyed for me the first time, but it sinks in . .
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: DeeGilles on January 14, 2006, 08:00:32 AM
Maybe a little OT but..Are any of you old enough to remember "Splendor in the Grass" with Warren Beaty (his first film) and Natalie Wood? That film had an incredibily profound impact on me as a teenager. There is a lot of that in Brokeback Mountain.

Splendor or grass? ;) I say both. Don't you? Yeah it could be a real tear jerker also.


That's one of my favorite movies.  I've seen it on AMC or TCM and the like several times. There is a parallel with BBM there, in the intensity of love and passion, and the ultimate thwarting of the relationship because of societal constraints.  Excellent movie. I recommend it to anyone who hasn't seen it.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: lynn on January 14, 2006, 10:49:10 AM
A report from the Star-Ledger newspaper in New Jersey on the wide demographic appeal of BBM:

http://www.nj.com/search/index.ssf?/base/entertainment-0/1137044950180090.xml?starledger?emo&coll=1

"Obviously, there are gay men that are coming to the movie," says Brian Callaghan, a spokesman for the suburban Boston-based National Amusements chain, which is showing the film in Edgewater and East Windsor.

But he says theater managers have told him the movie has been doing most of its business with presumably straight male-female couples, who are probably attracted by the excellent reviews and word-of-mouth.


Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Kevin on January 14, 2006, 07:21:31 PM
My mom went to see it today with her best friend.  A bit of background...years ago when I came out she was a hardcore, conservative republican that was a wreck when I told her I was gay.  She tried in vain to get me to go into psychotherapy.  But I always had a lot of confidence and had zero issues with being gay, and even at the time I knew she was the one with the problem.  In the last twenty years (I'm now 39) it's been a great deal of work getting her to see the light about being gay and also that a conservative approach to social values hurts individuals and our country.  Today, she is a radical democrat, hates Bush, and believes in equal rights for all including marriage equality.  She says that she loved Brokeback and felt that only the most closed minded could not understand the profound social message the movie conveys (although the makers swear they had no agenda and just wanted to make a good film).

Interestingly, she said there was zero laughter during the "Alma sees them making out" scene.  I've reached a conclusion about this; it is gay men that are laughing:

1.  most report that the laughter in the audiences is at screenings of theaters that just began showing the film

2.  most also report that the audiences get far more "straight" the longer the movie shows at a given theater.  I have seen the movie MANY times at two different theaters and know this is true.

Why is this?  Why would it be gay men that would laugh?  I know that the laughter issue has been discussed often, but I don't remember seeing a satisfactory answer.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: WLAGuy on January 14, 2006, 07:40:12 PM
My mom went to see it today with her best friend.  A bit of background...years ago when I came out she was a hardcore, conservative republican that was a wreck when I told her I was gay.  She tried in vain to get me to go into psychotherapy.  But I always had a lot of confidence and had zero issues with being gay, and even at the time I knew she was the one with the problem.  In the last twenty years (I'm now 39) it's been a great deal of work getting her to see the light about being gay and also that a conservative approach to social values hurts individuals and our country.  Today, she is a radical democrat, hates Bush, and believes in equal rights for all including marriage equality.  She says that she loved Brokeback and felt that only the most closed minded could not understand the profound social message the movie conveys (although the makers swear they had no agenda and just wanted to make a good film).

Interestingly, she said there was zero laughter during the "Alma sees them making out" scene.  I've reached a conclusion about this; it is gay men that are laughing:

1.  most report that the laughter in the audiences is at screenings of theaters that just began showing the film

2.  most also report that the audiences get far more "straight" the longer the movie shows at a given theater.  I have seen the movie MANY times at two different theaters and know this is true.

Why is this?  Why would it be gay men that would laugh?  I know that the laughter issue has been discussed often, but I don't remember seeing a satisfactory answer.

That's a good question, Kevin, and one that's been rolling around in the back of my mind.  I think gay men are laughing because up until that point in the movie they have only been identifying with Ennis or Jack.  Thus, when Alma opens the door and catches the two men kissing, many gay men react from the point of view of Ennis and Jack (i.e., uh-oh, she caught them), and don't identify with the shock and turmoil she experiences.  I think it starts to sink in when they see Alma crying the following morning while holding her daughter as Ennis takes off for the mountains with Jack, and they realize what she must have been going through the previous night while she waited for Ennis to come home. 
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: mary on January 14, 2006, 10:00:21 PM
That's a good question, Kevin, and one that's been rolling around in the back of my mind.  I think gay men are laughing because up until that point in the movie they have only been identifying with Ennis or Jack.  Thus, when Alma opens the door and catches the two men kissing, many gay men react from the point of view of Ennis and Jack (i.e., uh-oh, she caught them), and don't identify with the shock and turmoil she experiences.  I think it starts to sink in when they see Alma crying the following morning while holding her daughter as Ennis takes off for the mountains with Jack, and they realize what she must have been going through the previous night while she waited for Ennis to come home. 

Well my most recent trip to see Brokeback had the most laughing I'd heard yet - but none when Alma saw them kissing.  This was Wednesday night and the theater was pretty full - the only theater in the place that was full (interestingly enough Casanova was playing next door).  There was a lot of laughing at all of the joking and teasing between Jack and Ennis on Brokeback and hoots when Jack told LD to sit down and Lureen smiled. It was kind of fun as I'd forgotten that there were funny parts
My feeling was that this was a group of folks swept in by the word of mouth good reviews and Oscar buzz  but not familiar with the ending. The end of the film was met with stunned silence.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Luckie Starchild on January 14, 2006, 10:10:12 PM
Why is this?  Why would it be gay men that would laugh?  I know that the laughter issue has been discussed often, but I don't remember seeing a satisfactory answer.
I did not laugh but I'm thinking someone might find humor in Ennis' lack of control.  He's usually so guarded but he can't resist kissing Jack.  He looks around to make sure no one is watching so maybe it is funny that Alma does indeed catch him and that it was an uncharateristically reckless move on his part.  Maybe some people are simply humored because the whole scene is carried out so well and they are not necessarily laughing at Alma... does that make sense?

Also, I think someone could laugh at first and then also feel sorrow for Alma a second later.  Again, I did not laugh during this scene.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Lance on January 14, 2006, 11:17:03 PM
at the showing i went to, there was far too much laughing through the entire reunion scene. even when we see Alma realising the full depth of what it means there were still three small groups of people in the theater laughing about it. i suspect it was a particular sort of 'vengeful' gay guys who want women to suffer for having without effort what gay men want, but have been denied.
just a wild theory.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: BillN on January 14, 2006, 11:27:54 PM
at the showing i went to, there was far too much laughing through the entire reunion scene. even when we see Alma realising the full depth of what it means there were still three small groups of people in the theater laughing about it. i suspect it was a particular sort of 'vengeful' gay guys who want women to suffer for having without effort what gay men want, but have been denied.
just a wild theory.

Lance, I hope you are wrong about wanting women to suffer. During the first showing I went to, there was laughter, but none at the second, a few gasps. Both showings were in San Francisco and the audience majority gay, so I'm not sure why there was laughter. My personal opinion is those laughing were doing it because of the "got caught" sense.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Lance on January 14, 2006, 11:36:37 PM
the audience was mostly gay where i went. i am hoping that the ones who still laughed when we see Alma were just thinking back to Ennis' excited loss of control, having a reverberation of the original laugh, an echo.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Carissa on January 14, 2006, 11:37:26 PM
at the showing i went to, there was far too much laughing through the entire reunion scene. even when we see Alma realising the full depth of what it means there were still three small groups of people in the theater laughing about it. i suspect it was a particular sort of 'vengeful' gay guys who want women to suffer for having without effort what gay men want, but have been denied.
just a wild theory.
That was the wild theory I came up with too. 
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: dave754 on January 15, 2006, 12:04:01 AM
I saw the movie for the first and only time a week ago in Northampton, Mass. (a city heavily populated by lesbians). While there were several lesbian couples there, the audience was mostly gay older males with a few straight couples, also older. The theater is an ancient landmark in Northampton, and the sound was terrible and the screen very small. The audience laughed much more than I would have expected(but never inappropiately). There was total silence during both tent scenes...no laughter when Alma sees them kissing. Many gasps and groans when Ennis gets the "deceased" postcard. Open, obvious weeping in the final scenes. I have never seen anything like it. The theater was packed, and as we exited, there was almost total silence, couples with their arms around each other looking totally stunned. When we got outside there was a line around the block waiting to get in for the next show. What they must have thought looking at all of our weeping faces! Next week I'm going to see it in a much better theater.  
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Wayne SF on January 15, 2006, 08:02:57 AM
Memphis Report  Well, I just returned from Memphis, TN.  I took my b/f for his first screening and my ninth.  Their opening day was Friday the Thirteenth and we went to the 315pm show.  The 6,7,9 and 10 pm showings were all sold out.  The 315pm show was 70%+++ full.  Mostly straight couples and only about 10-15% gay audience.  The audience was GREAT!!  No inappropriate laughs/behavior.  They were quieter than the San Francisco audiences and I heard WAY more crying in Memphis than here in 'the city'.  And the sound qality was much imporved over San Francisco, thankfully.  It was a great experience.   Really great.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: PetterG on January 15, 2006, 08:09:19 AM
his first screening
and his reaction and comment was?
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: canmark on January 15, 2006, 08:12:53 AM
Not sure where to post this, but...

Will Brokeback have an effect on the fashion world? Certainly, fashion designers have been influenced by popular films in the past. And fashionistas looking for the latest looks often pick up on trends popularized by movies. Could we be seeing the cowboy look come into fashion? (Aside: at last year's Fashion Cares AIDS benefit fashion show in Toronto the theme was "Bollywood Cowboy," combining the looks of Indian film stars with the Wild West. Another side note: Thinking Brokeback, I almost bought myself a western style shirt before Christmas. It was a Tommy Hilfiger and over a $100, so I didn't get it, but might keep my eye open for this Rockmount label.)

From a Denver Post article:
http://www.denverpost.com/style/ci_3389808

Quote
Rockmount recently supplied more than a dozen of its signature snap-front shirts to rock guitarist and composer Eric Clapton. The musician told Weil he was a fan of authentic Western wear but didn't know where to get it until he found a Rockmount shirt in an English boutique.

Clapton joins Bruce Springsteen, Bob Dylan and even Elvis Presley as having worn Rockmount shirts. Western wear appeals to musicians because "there's a creative individuality to it, an edginess," Weil says. "It's a rejection of conventional fashion, the boring mainstream."

Rockmount shirts also are worn by the actors who portray gay cowboy lovers in "Brokeback Mountain," now in movie theaters. Was Weil concerned about the subject matter being too edgy? "We realize this is not everybody's cup of tea, but the real issue is that the movie is a work of art, and we love being associated with Annie Proulx, Ang Lee and Larry McMurtry," he says.


http://www.rockmount.com/
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: beans on January 15, 2006, 08:51:58 AM
From newspaper The Kansas City Star. They asked for reader write-ins from those who have seen 'Brokeback'. It is interesting that a few didn't see the film but their write-ins were published.


‘Brokeback’ talk back
Love it or hate it, readers have a mountain of opinions
By DAVID FRESE
The Kansas City Star
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/entertainment/13611144.htm



‘BROKEBACK’ RESPONSE
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/entertainment/13593106.htm
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: BillN on January 15, 2006, 09:02:16 AM
From newspaper The Kansas City Star. They asked for reader write-ins from those who have seen 'Brokeback'. It is interesting that a few didn't see the film but their write-ins were published.


‘Brokeback’ talk back
Love it or hate it, readers have a mountain of opinions
By DAVID FRESE
The Kansas City Star
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/entertainment/13611144.htm



‘BROKEBACK’ RESPONSE
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/entertainment/13593106.htm

Thanks for the post, I read the opinions. I was glad to see that in the "red" heartland of America the majority opinion was very positive. A few people said they wouldn't see it and then trashed it, pretty sad.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Pug on January 16, 2006, 04:49:35 AM
I may have posted something similar in another thread but wanted to say, in case that post is missed, that seeing it yesterday for the fourth time, at the local indie theater (19th Street Theatre) in Allentown PA, where it finally opened the night before at 10:10PM but 1/15 officially), the theater was SOLD OUT and the audience as diverse as it gets. Maybe 40% gay, 10% "ultra" seniors (above 75), rest women and heterosexual couples and there wasn't one guffaw, one snicker, one cough. The audience sat spellbound.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: ottoblom on January 16, 2006, 06:06:50 AM
I loved this brainy reader review from the Kansas City Star:

“I find myself uncharacteristically silent of late amid the Charybdis of anti-gay controversy surrounding the release of ’Brokeback Mountain’. Generally, I think it a moral imperative to strike out in defense of human beings’ liberties in life and in love. Still I think my silence is justified. That is because ’Brokeback’ is a fine film. And to dwell upon its content is to render this mere part of the film from the whole and near-perfect rest. And yet, at the risk of personally achieving Susan Sontag’s definition of philistinism, I’ll dwell upon itnow. ’Brokeback’ is such a fantastic film, so careful, so superfluous, so unapologetically beautiful, for two reasons.

1. Because it goes beyond the frustrating and played-out tendencies of post-Modernism. By this I mean: Post-Modernism and Po-Mo art have made us all aware of myths, mythologies, mythic systems, which, upon generating and illuminating or championing, they eventually undermine in the final moments. This film could have been easy, could have been lazy, could have resorted to this eventual undermining. It did, after all, pique our awareness to the cowboy mythology. But it also works within this mythology,enriches the myths themselves, and makes more complex its gods, until at last--the myths themselves in place, not trivialized--it transcends the mythology. It achieves a little bit of the existential divine.

2. Because it is the saddest story I’ve ever been told in film. There are two sorts of sad stories, and they both involve variations on love. The first is the story of hindered orstar-crossed love(One writ with me in sour misfortune’s book!). The second is the story of loved-out love. ’Brokeback’ is a story about both. I felt emotionally and psychologically lambasted instantly; and still the memory of it remains, to me,concussively beautiful. ”

Laurel Witt, Weatherby Lake, MO

Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: kw on January 16, 2006, 08:17:47 AM
'Brokeback' becomes unlikely date movie


http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060114/ENT03/60115002/1046/ENT
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Jack Nasty on January 16, 2006, 11:28:49 AM
I have seen Brokeback six times now, Sunday was the sixth viewing. I was appalled when some jerks laughed during the Laurenn phone scene. I assume it was at her appearance and it stopped once she started describing the "accident" but man, that really pissed me off.  >:(
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Pug on January 16, 2006, 11:52:58 AM
Sorry you had that disruption, Jack. First time I saw it, there was a gay  man about 15 feet away from me with a baritone whisper and he commented about EVERYTHING in the film. I wanted to kill him!

Do you agree that each time you see it , you become more vulnerable to the sad parts? Knowing that they are coming is almost scary for me. During the beginning of the film, I almost experience temporary optimism as if I am trying to repress the ultimate tragedy to befall Jack and Ennis.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Jack Nasty on January 16, 2006, 12:05:43 PM
Do you agree that each time you see it , you become more vulnerable to the sad parts? Knowing that they are coming is almost scary for me. During the beginning of the film, I almost experience temporary optimism as if I am trying to repress the ultimate tragedy to befall Jack and Ennis.

Oh yes. I have the same reaction. There are some triggers that start my eyes welling up with tears before the actual scene. Basically I am crying from where Jack says how he sometimes misses Ennis so bad he can hardly stand it until the end (well, through Rufus really).
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: lynn on January 16, 2006, 12:54:36 PM
I saw the movie with my girlfriend yesterday and it was a completely different experience from my first three times seeing it alone. Initially, she didn’t want to see it at all because her impression from the trailers was that it was too “lovey-dovey” and sappy. I convinced her the trailers were misleading, told her it was the best movie I’ve seen in  a long time, it’s really about how we deal with love and loss, etc., and so suddenly she said we should go see it now, together, and so we did, at my usual theater in suburban Philadelphia, on Sunday afternoon. One of her reasons for going was so I could discuss the movie with a "real person" instead of just on what I referred to as a film forum I've "gotten involved with".

The theater was about 80% full, as opposed to the more sparse midday showings I’ve previously attended. The usual mix of middle-aged couples and women were there as well as many seniors. My friend noticed my scanning of the crowd and I told her I had to report back here, earning me a slightly skeptical look, and surely she didn’t miss that I was vibrating with excitement. I made a point of handing her some tissues after telling her this made me cry like “Bridges” did, which she also loved, strongly suggested that she not get popcorn because it would be too distracting, and spent several minutes negotiating our seat selection. (perhaps this is why I usually see movies alone)

She caught many bits of humor, such as Jack’s Thanksgiving dinner, laughed at the recognizable characters like the stud duck and Cassie and “aahhed” at all the cute sheep. We both laughed at Ennis’s Thanksgiving scene (before the fight with Alma) because we know people in that same situation, where the ex is involved with the new spouse.  I snuck glances at her during all the love scenes but saw no discernable reaction. There was a gasp from our row during the reunion kiss but no laughing at Alma.

At the end, she told me it was fun and she’s glad she went, but didn’t cry, and commented that it’s funny how some movies make us cry, some don’t. She is a very upbeat, optimistic person and so I wasn’t really surprised at that. We did not have time to discuss it further then. But later, she emailed me that she thought she didn’t react more because she was a bit numb now, due to some upheavals in her life and she thought the movie had “a lot of meaning”.

My reaction this time was also muted, perhaps because I was somewhat distracted, perhaps because I’ve spent so much time discussing it that the emotional impact has faded a bit. I also felt a bit strange watching the love scenes with someone I knew next to me, as I have gone way beyond what we see on the screen, and felt like these should be  very private moments with just me and the characters and my own thoughts.

So on the way home, I was reflecting upon how the fourth time has “cured” me, except, once I was alone in my car, playing the CD, I shed a few tears for Ennis, and then later at home, Jack’s face kept haunting me, and of course I cried some more… and here I am again, so sorry, no cure yet.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: chrismac88 on January 16, 2006, 03:00:08 PM
We've seen BBM twice now.....I enjoyed the movie much better the second time.

The first time, it was in a 7:30 sold out showing December 9th on Capitol Hill (gay district).....Audience was 95% gay.......I was annoyed at the older man behind me, kept making comments about how hot Jake and heath were, saying "oh my god" during the 1st tent scene, and shrieks of laughter when Alma caught Ennis and Jack kissing.....  so I concur that the worst reaction to that scene tends to happen when there's a lot of gay people in the audience.   And while I definitely was emotional, I did not cry as much as I was expecting.  Probably because I had to go pee so bad by the end of the movie.   But hours, days later it seemed to really sink in and hit me.   I bought the soundtrack and listening to it now still makes me cry.   I also bought the book and read that.

So this last friday, my partner and I decided to see it again now that it's expanded to many theaters.  We went to one close to our house in Renton (just south of Seattle).  When I was in line to buy tickets, almost everyone in front of me were buying BBM tickets, and most of them were male-female couples....I thought that was a good sign.

In the theater I also noticed that mostly it was groups of women, older people, and couples, only a few other gay people that I could tell.  I'd say it was about 75% full.

During the first tent scene, there was some nervous giggling....at first I was bothered, but I tried to ignore it....during the second tent scene, a family actually got up and left, they had a kid with them.....how did they not know what this movie was about?   I figured maybe it was a young girl, probably with a crush on Jake or heath, who convinced her parents to take her to see it.

More nervous giggling during the second tent scene....but during the course of the movie, I could almost sense the audience getting sucked into this love story and forgetting that they're watching a love story about two guys.  The girl next to me was sobbing during the argument scene when Ennis breaks down.

I cried much more during the second show, probably because I knew the story now and could pick up on subtle actions and expressions from Ennis and Jack that I didn't notice the first time.

I absolutely love this movie, probably the best movie I've ever seen.   But both times I'm kind of "down" for days after seeing it.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: daannzzz on January 17, 2006, 12:07:47 AM
I have seen it 3 times, twice at a smaller screen (amongst 7) that show a mix of independant and wide release films. The third time was at a newley opend 6 plex that also shows a mix. All three showings were matinees and the first two were about 70% full with the last one (in a much larger theater) 90% full. The mix was always similar with not many gay men (that I could tell), many single and groups of womern and some straight couples and loads of seniors. The first two showings the audience hardley laughed at anything except some of the more humorous spots, gasped in all the right spots and were in tears at the end. A few people, in the last showing I went to, laughed when Aguirre sees them through the binoculars, laughed at the reunion scene and when Alma sees them. I could not fathom why they would be laughing at all. It is (somewhat) a relief ( I think) that it was not just my group. This last group was fairly silent for the last 20 minutes though.
  I wonder why there are so many seniors attending this film?  They were there in wheelchairs, with oxygen tanks and canes in couples and many groups of senor women. I haven't seen that many seniors in the theater scince I worked at a cinema in the 80's and we were showing Cocoon!!!!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: BillN on January 17, 2006, 12:51:32 AM
Went to my 3rd showing today in Napa, CA. For those who aren't familiar with Napa, it is about 50 miles north of SF, a small city of 70K people with wine and tourism the major industries. I went to a 1PM show and there were about 75 people, lots of women, seniors, some couples, even some teenagers with parents. One guy left during the first tent scene, probably didn't know what the movie was about. People were mostly quiet, with some laughs in the places you'd expect that. And then it became totally quiet for the last third of the movie. Many people stayed after for the credits.

I was very surprised to feel the impact so strongly with a 3rd viewing. I knew what was coming but could not control my emotions, and when I saw Ennis tear up during the last scene, I thought I wasn't going to be able to breathe. The music during that scene, The Wings, really gets to me every time I hear it. This time the film seemed to move quicker than the first two times, and I could understand more of the dialogue. I know I'd have some difficulty going to see it again any time soon, it is so haunting. 
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: tarheel_david on January 17, 2006, 08:55:13 AM
[I apparently posted this in the wrong place originally, so I'm moving my comments here. Sorry about that.]

Hey guys, this weekend I've travelled from Charlotte (N.C.) to Jacksonville, Fla., to visit my mom and two brothers. Yesterday (Saturday), me, mom and my partner went to see BBM. (She was dying to see it.) It's just opening here this weekend so I was worried about getting tickets. My mom likes doing everything early, so she wanted to hit the 12:50 p.m. show.

The memory of the absolute MANIA that greeted BBM in Charlotte last weekend when it opened on both screens at our Regal Manor arthouse cinema was fresh in my mind (sellouts and lines out the door for every show) so I told mom that we needed to get there at least an hour early to get decent seats. Upon our arrival at the AMC Orangepark Mall there was far less traffic at the ticket windows than I'd imagined, and inside the theater were only about three other folks. I was very surprised.

By the time the movie started, however, the theater was about 80 percent filled. The audience was quite mixed with gay and lesbian singles and couples, groups of straight women and senior couples. (The seniors deserve special appreciation for their support, I think. We knew gays and the ladies would turn out, but the older crowd has really pulled their weight too.)

The audience response was great and everyone really got into it with lots of appropriate "oohs" "boo hoos" and "oh nos." My mom cries easily so the movie jerked plenty of tears from her, but, from my hearing, she had lots of company.

For the rest of the day, our conversation returned often to the movie. Mom swears the film WILL win the Best Picture Oscar and she said she'll see it again. That ole Brokeback got us good.

THDavid
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Luckie Starchild on January 17, 2006, 11:35:49 AM
I saw the movie with my girlfriend yesterday and it was a completely different experience from my first three times seeing it alone. Initially, she didn’t want to see it at all because her impression from the trailers was that it was too “lovey-dovey” and sappy.
A friend of mine had a similar reaction to the trailer, thinking it looks like a cheesy soap opera.  She still has not seen BBM yet but she likely will soon and I am curious to find out her response.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: beans on January 17, 2006, 11:37:04 AM
I have a few things to say...

I've seen the movie twice. On my 2nd, I found myself focusing, appreciating, treasuring all the moments when Ennis and Jack were together. I so badly do not want these short moments to end. They are so romantic and blissful; the interaction, words, and silence. Their last meeting was the most precious (and heart-breaking, of course.) Knowing the ending for these characters simply makes these moments even more precious.

I know I'll focus mostly on the happy parts when I watch it on DVD. The ending is simply too hard to sit through.

About the "caught by Alma" kissing scene, I was one of the laughers. As this was the first emotionally upsetting scene, my thought was a combination of "this is only a movie; it's ok, laugh it off" and "this poor girl has no gaydar" plus a recall of an SNL skit about the girl who keeps falling for gay guys.

About the lack of reactions from some of your friends & family -
I realize that this film is a very personal experience. It's subtle, nuanced, and many little things add up to create the powerful effect. Many of us will react strongly and it is only natural that we want to share it with others but we should not hype it up and spoil it in any way. My method of recommendation goes something like "I recommend that 'gay cowboy' movie. It is not what you think. Don't read any of the media hype; avoid the spoilers. Just go and watch the film and then we'll talk about it." At most, I'll add, "this movie lingered with me for some time. Tell me how it goes for you." Don't mention "tear-jerker", sad ending, or provide tissues.

Perhaps someone else can chime in on how best to recommend "Brokeback" for newbies.

I have once mentioned (in the old thread) the 2001 Hong Kong film "In the Mood for Love" (director Wong Kar-Wai). It is the only other film that lingered with me for days. The theme is the same as "Brokeback" except the lovers are straight and the story takes place in a very closed setting (urban apartment.)

There's something about the film's execution that makes the audience feel this way. It cannot be just the story. The two films must share similar techniques or formula but I don't know exactly what. Maybe a film expert here can analyze and break down each scene, each frame. But this will be discussed in another thread.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: WLAGuy on January 17, 2006, 12:17:14 PM
Sorry you had that disruption, Jack. First time I saw it, there was a gay  man about 15 feet away from me with a baritone whisper and he commented about EVERYTHING in the film. I wanted to kill him!


What always works for me is politely letting them know you're having a hard time hearing the actors, and asking them to whisper.  That way you're not asking them to be quiet, but giving them an option to keep talking to their friend, but in a much quieter voice.  I've never had that approach not work. 
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: flottie on January 18, 2006, 08:22:37 AM
Hi all!

Living in Denmark, it can be very difficult to understand the impact of BBM in America.

Don't get me wrong - I loved the movie just as much as all of you, but the gay theme hasen't been much of an issue here.

I went to see it with my my boyfriend and a couple of our (gay) friends. We thought the cinema would be loaded with other gay guys, but as far as I could see, there were only a handful out of 250 people. All ages were represented. Parents with their teenage kids, young people, elderly couples... You name it.

When the movie ended, the room was dead silent. Noone spoke. A few were crying.

But as I said - the gay theme hasn't really been talked about much - except stories from the US about the movie not being screened in cinemas in the Bible Belt.

Here in Denmark, the attitude is: Gay? And so what? It's a movie about impossible love.

The attitude is very much like that generally. We have a dozen openly gay members of parliament, actors, tv personalities, anchor men etc... The Queen always invites the husbands and wifes of gay politicians/actors/ambassadors for parties at the palace, so I guess it's just too "normal" to raise any brows here.

I can't begin to imagine what it would be like to be gay in some parts of America...
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: DaveL on January 18, 2006, 08:34:45 AM
Flottie, what you have to understand about politics in the United States is: the "wedge issue" and using a particular social group to hold up to distortion scorn and ridicule, or worse, by the political right.  They can't overtly attack the blacks any more, though they still use some of the Reagan era codes, such as "welfare queens" or "block voting".  They can't very well attack the immigrant communinties, because their corporate allies are too much into exploiting (and keeping in illegal status)  the hundreds of thousands who enter illegally every year.  So, whom to attack?  Three guesses.  What's really behind it all, the driving force, is what Justice OW Holmes used to call "the money power". It is really the corporations, who use the religious right and the ignorant as their allies.  Their real agenda is not to put down the "homosexual agenda", but rather to create the impression there is such an agenda, set up a straw man to knock down.  Just so happens that part of their campaign is an attack on anything that restrains corporate power, and the power of the multinational corporations.   I don't think you have so much of that in Denmark.  Anyway, you can see how those they are attacking, could in turn embrace a film like BBM.  Can't you?
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: PetterG on January 18, 2006, 03:09:36 PM
The Queen always invites the husbands and wifes of gay politicians/actors/ambassadors for parties at the palace, so I guess it's just too "normal" to raise any brows here. I can't begin to imagine what it would be like to be gay in some parts of America...

Welcome to this Forum,

I'm think that here in Scandinavia the gay thing in BBM is not so big, but I think there is big difference living in a (big) town and in more rural areas.
It's still hard to be gay if You are a 'farmer' in 'nowhere' in Sweden.

I'm impressed that your Queen invites gay couples, I don't think our will do that.

regard
Petter
Stockholm
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: CellarDweller115 on January 18, 2006, 08:33:23 PM
I noticed a few things this time I missed before. The line "We are working together so we might as well start drinking together" was not in there. I thought it was. And no one had ever mentioned that shot of Jack in the trailer standing shirtless on a bridge. Where the hell has that gone? And where would it be in the film?

Hiya Sparky!

I thought I was the only one who noticed this!

I posted about this in the "suggest new threads" post about a week before you posted this.

I also wonder what happened to that scene, and that line.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: WLAGuy on January 18, 2006, 08:40:10 PM
BBM strikes again!  A friend of mine who has seen the movie a couple of times but was nowhere near as affected as I was, and knows how much I've been hanging out on this board, called me last night and in a wondering tone told me about a friend of his who saw the movie recently.  His friend thought the movie was very good, but wasn't moved to tears while watching it.  So his friend leaves the movie theater, gets into his car to drive home, and fifteen minutes into the drive suddenly bursts into tears out of nowhere.  Now, I had already told my friend the movie had this effect on people (including me after my second viewing), but I guess he thought it was just me.  Well, now he knows the power of BBM!  [spoken in loud, booming voice]

(Can you tell who's been working too hard today?)
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Hmmmm on January 18, 2006, 08:43:29 PM
Flottie, what you have to understand about politics in the United States is: the "wedge issue" and using a particular social group to hold up to distortion scorn and ridicule, or worse, by the political right.  They can't overtly attack the blacks any more, though they still use some of the Reagan era codes, such as "welfare queens" or "block voting".  They can't very well attack the immigrant communinties, because their corporate allies are too much into exploiting (and keeping in illegal status)  the hundreds of thousands who enter illegally every year.  So, whom to attack?  Three guesses.  What's really behind it all, the driving force, is what Justice OW Holmes used to call "the money power". It is really the corporations, who use the religious right and the ignorant as their allies.  Their real agenda is not to put down the "homosexual agenda", but rather to create the impression there is such an agenda, set up a straw man to knock down.  Just so happens that part of their campaign is an attack on anything that restrains corporate power, and the power of the multinational corporations.   I don't think you have so much of that in Denmark.  Anyway, you can see how those they are attacking, could in turn embrace a film like BBM.  Can't you?

I agree with a lot of what you say.  And it is true that corporations get lots of legislative goodies when the electorate is distracted. But I do think that a lot of the large corporations and and multinationals are pretty strongly making a positive difference for gays. 

I was in a specific training a couple of years ago that is used with all employees in one company.  It did a very good job of showing
a) it is not a choice
b) look at it from a GLBT person's point of view
c) everyone needs to be respected and valued equally in the work environment so we can all be successful
d) here is how to be considerate (no gossip or speculation, be inclusive and use inclusive language [partners specifically invited to social functions rather than the word spouse etc.]) 

Some people objected at first but by the end it was pretty clear to everybody that to treat fellow employees otherwise just gets in the way and is just ...well.. rude and inconsiderate.  Ongoing reinforcement of the companies stance occurs every year.  It is very clear.

This has been a proactive training effort by the company over many years.  The company offers full partner benefits (health ins. etc.) as well.  The first specific words to employees on non descrimination to gays was about 15 years ago.

So, many large corporations and multinationals are doing a lot of good in this area.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: sherryfair on January 19, 2006, 07:48:04 AM
Another sign of demand for our 'lil darling:

From Akron, Ohio:
http://blogs.ohio.com/moviespotlight/2006/01/bucking_bronco_.html

"For those who think that no one wants to see these stories, think again.  I get a plethora of voice and e-mails from readers during the course of the week and I can tell you that in my e-mail, phone, on-line Q&A column and snail mail, the No. 1 question has been:  when are we getting Brokeback Mountain?"

A later blog entry reassures readers:

"When are we getting Brokeback Mountain?"  Thankfully, I can say tomorrow (Friday)." [That's Jan. 20th.]




Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: BillN on January 19, 2006, 06:49:59 PM
Flottie, what you have to understand about politics in the United States is: the "wedge issue" and using a particular social group to hold up to distortion scorn and ridicule, or worse, by the political right.  They can't overtly attack the blacks any more, though they still use some of the Reagan era codes, such as "welfare queens" or "block voting".  They can't very well attack the immigrant communinties, because their corporate allies are too much into exploiting (and keeping in illegal status)  the hundreds of thousands who enter illegally every year.  So, whom to attack?  Three guesses.  What's really behind it all, the driving force, is what Justice OW Holmes used to call "the money power". It is really the corporations, who use the religious right and the ignorant as their allies.  Their real agenda is not to put down the "homosexual agenda", but rather to create the impression there is such an agenda, set up a straw man to knock down.  Just so happens that part of their campaign is an attack on anything that restrains corporate power, and the power of the multinational corporations.   I don't think you have so much of that in Denmark.  Anyway, you can see how those they are attacking, could in turn embrace a film like BBM.  Can't you?

I agree with a lot of what you say.  And it is true that corporations get lots of legislative goodies when the electorate is distracted. But I do think that a lot of the large corporations and and multinationals are pretty strongly making a positive difference for gays. 

I was in a specific training a couple of years ago that is used with all employees in one company.  It did a very good job of showing
a) it is not a choice
b) look at it from a GLBT person's point of view
c) everyone needs to be respected and valued equally in the work environment so we can all be successful
d) here is how to be considerate (no gossip or speculation, be inclusive and use inclusive language [partners specifically invited to social functions rather than the word spouse etc.]) 

Some people objected at first but by the end it was pretty clear to everybody that to treat fellow employees otherwise just gets in the way and is just ...well.. rude and inconsiderate.  Ongoing reinforcement of the companies stance occurs every year.  It is very clear.

This has been a proactive training effort by the company over many years.  The company offers full partner benefits (health ins. etc.) as well.  The first specific words to employees on non descrimination to gays was about 15 years ago.

So, many large corporations and multinationals are doing a lot of good in this area.

Hmmmm, agree that large companies have done a lot to train people but I think that the main motivation is to avoid lawsuits and discrimination cases before state and federal governments. Nothing speaks louder to a company that the thought of having large settlements or fines imposed. I think a secondary consideration, and maybe quite important to companies led by intelligent people with a conscience, is that people who are told and trained to be tolerant work together better and so produce better results, as well as being the right thing to do. IMO, it is politicians who wish to direct people away from issues that they want to keep from receiving attention, and they can do that by letting surrogates on the right attack gays as being a large menace to society. This satisfies the right's need for an enemy and the politicians desire to refocus attention away from the many issues they should be addressing.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Lance on January 19, 2006, 08:21:41 PM
''This satisfies the right's need for an enemy and the politicians desire to refocus attention away from the many issues they should be addressing.''

and to win an election as the Bush group did.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Timothy on January 19, 2006, 08:24:41 PM
Quote
It is really the corporations, who use the religious right and the ignorant as their allies.


Sorry, that doesn't seem to hold true.  A huge percentage of the Fortune 500 have non-discrimination policies and offer domestic partner benefits.  They are way ahead of the public sector (governments).  Additionally, more and more you see businesses and business people lobbying legislators in favor of gay rights.  I believe it was in Cincinnati (or maybe Columbus - I forget) that the vote last November to overturn the anti-gay city policies was funded almost entirely by the Chamber of Commerce and local businesses including Proctor and Gamble.  And just this week Microsoft, Boeing, and several other large businesses in Washington announced that they were supporting new anti-discrimination policies.

However, those who seek to impose their religious rules on others, particularly the Southern Baptist Church and the hierarchy and political wing of the Catholic Church, have ratcheted up their lobbying efforts. 

The driving force behind the current anti-gay sentiment is not about businesses.  It is simply the front-line in a battle between conservative churches and those with whom they disagree - including more liberal mainline churches.  It's passionate religious belief.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: DaveL on January 20, 2006, 12:12:19 AM
I didn't make myself clear.  Of course the "money power", the corporations, will stage HR "sensitivity" classes, etc.  Talk is cheap.  The point is, get those rates down.  Or don't pay tax at all, like ENRON, 5 years or so out of 7 of the end of its existence.  How does a multinational achieve such a tax rate?  You and I don't pay tax at that rate.  You find ways to swing the vote to DeLay, Bush, etc., whose only consistent policy is: keep taxes on the middle class high or raise them, reduce capital gains tax, reduce tax on incomes over $300,000.  The theatre of seminars and sensitivity training is a small price to pay for tax "relief" like that.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: DaveL on January 20, 2006, 12:29:22 AM
So far, the right propaganda machine has exercised restraint with respect to BBM. But if, as I predicted, BBM  wins big on March 7 (correct date?), then, will the "fire and brimstone crowd" back off?  Perhaps, but Fallwell and Robertson  will probably continue to pound that "wedge"  into the natural constituency of the Democractic party, which is essentially everyone with an income under $60,000 p.a., telling them how those bad Democrats  who want "gay marriage" and worse (worse=what?  transexual "woman" marries transexual "man"--I leave that to your imagination, but Rick Santorum can only conjure up animal sex) are a threat to the American way of  life.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: terry on January 20, 2006, 12:33:26 AM
  kw, if it's any comfort to you one of my gay friends saw it with his friends and he said that many of the younger gay guys were laughing at the inappropriate scenes.  They were even howling during the love scenes.  I think it's a maturity thing, not a gay thing.  They'd probably laugh at Titanic's sinking.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Hmmmm on January 20, 2006, 03:54:47 AM
I didn't make myself clear.  Of course the "money power", the corporations, will stage HR "sensitivity" classes, etc.  Talk is cheap.  The point is, get those rates down.  Or don't pay tax at all, like ENRON, 5 years or so out of 7 of the end of its existence.  How does a multinational achieve such a tax rate?  You and I don't pay tax at that rate.  You find ways to swing the vote to DeLay, Bush, etc., whose only consistent policy is: keep taxes on the middle class high or raise them, reduce capital gains tax, reduce tax on incomes over $300,000.  The theatre of seminars and sensitivity training is a small price to pay for tax "relief" like that.

Really I don't think you can link efforts to get a company's workforce to work well together and lobbying efforts to reduce corp tax rates.

I suppose some training could be hollow but they certainly are an expensive exercise if that is all it is in a company.  The main reason astute companies have pushed diversity training is because 1) their workforce was changing from US white male to a wide mix of backgrounds races, nationalities etc.  2) there was/is a worry that you better be able to attract the best talent because when the population ages you could very well have a shortage of skilled workers. 

Really, having all minorities expect to be welcome in a company and having people really work together well is just good business.  Without it a company could very well become uncompetitive.  That really is the main driver in astute companies.

As for getting tax breaks, of course they pursue those but as a separate activity.

[By the way, the middle class is a net receiver from the government, not a net contributor. Take the size of government spend and divide by the # of taxpayers.  Then look at the middle class tax bill per person and you will see the middle class tax payer is a net receiver.  Nor does the middle class pay the bulk of the taxes.  I am not saying that taxes are not a burden.  I am just pointing out that the middle class gets more from government that it pays into it.  But to continue the discussion further we would have to continue that in another thread.  It will be too off topic to cover here.]

According to data from the IRS:
- The bottom 50 percent of income earners pay approximately 4 percent of income taxes.
- The top 25 percent of income earners pay nearly 83 percent of the income tax burden
- The top 10 percent pay 65 percent of the income tax burden
- The top 1 percent of income earners pay almost 35 percent of all income taxes
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Pug on January 20, 2006, 04:44:37 AM
I happily did not encounter that b ut I would tell them to "shut the f*#k up" because they're not home in their living rooms >:(
Title: When the Laughing Stops
Post by: Alberta on January 20, 2006, 05:20:22 AM
I've seen the movie five times now and at each viewing except one, there is laughter through out at least half of the movie, and ALWAYS around anything gay.  That is, when Ennis and Jack are straight-acting things are relatively quiet (except for Thanksgiving at the Twists), but if Jack looks at Ennis, they kiss, etc., well, the laughing starts.  I think this is nervous laughter--the scenes in the movie while tame by most standards, are new scenes for people's film vocabularies-they don't know how to react and panic slightly whether they are gay or straight viewers.  The laughter generally stops from the scene where Ennis gets the postcard marked "deceased" and the theater is dead quiet until the end of the movie.  I'd be curious to know why audiences giggle or laugh at scenes some of us see as touching, romantic or sad.  I don't think it's necessarily homophobia....
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Pug on January 20, 2006, 06:51:45 AM
Where are you from. I have seem the film twice in Doylestown PA, which is a very upscale community and there was none of that other than a few gasps. I have seen it twice in my hometown area of Allentown PA at an art/indie theater (discerning audience frequents this place) and in two showings there was not one giggle or sound at any point. i would have been upset by what you expereinced. I would base it on ignorance and lack of exposure i general.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: brokebackLJ on January 20, 2006, 10:17:32 AM
Its funny here in New York...most of my audience's have been laughing a lot. Especially at the scene where Alma finds the boys making out. But at the end of the movie, it's the same, I walk up the aisles and see the people sitting in their seats crying and not moving. It's so touching....It usually is me, but I'm usually with friends who WANNA GO.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Uclapeterg on January 20, 2006, 10:41:55 AM
I went to see it the third time at the Sherman Oaks Galleria. Mostly women.  Very few couples.

There was what I would call "inappropriate" laughter, especially during the first tent scene.

Personally, I think that people didn't know how to deal with it (and actually I have to admit that I got a case of the giggles, too - I felt so bad).

I would say the theater got very quiet after "the kiss" in front of Alma and I did hear a lot of sniffles at the end of the picture. The friend that went with me didn't cry but she thought it was good. I'm planning to go again next week with someone who is a little more emotional. I personally like that.

I did do more crying this time, especially during the "two shirts" scene.  :-[
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: CellarDweller115 on January 20, 2006, 12:13:39 PM
I just had a visit at my job from one of my co-workers across the hall.

She came to me to tell me that she saw the movie in "The Clifton Commons", which is one of those larger multiplexes.

It wasn't a sell out, but it was only a Wednesday night.

She said she loved the movie.  I quized her, she said the crowd reacted to the same scenes we've listed before....tent scene, Alma sees the kiss, Jack vs. Father In Law, phone call to Lureen, tire iron, and the two shirts.

She said there were a number of people "sniffling" at the shirt scene, and said for herself, "After the first tent scene, I forgot it was a story about two men, and got into the love story itself."
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Pug on January 20, 2006, 12:26:25 PM
I am bringing a friend from work who wouldn't otherwise see it (very strict family influence). Oh God, its #5 for me.......................and I have  dates to see it 1/22, 1/24, 1/25. I am the official BBM tour guide here in Allentown PA. So far, the audiences have been stellar. It has just opened at a miltiplex but the venue I am going to is so much better for it. That would make 8 times. Wonder if we should have a thread about how many times we have seen this great film and why we keep revisiting it.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Pug on January 20, 2006, 09:17:21 PM
It was bound to happen. Fifth visit to BBM tonight and a bad audience. Besides a few isolated shrieks/yucks at the start of the 1st night tent scene, there was a row of teenage girls just giggling at everything from the tent scene to the most tender love interactions. I wanted to get up out of my seat and let them have it and I was on the aisle but i didn't want to cause a worse disturbance. When the credit rolls started, I got up  and reamed out the row I definitely knew was causing the disturbance. People around me agreed and told me that they were terrible. I also yelled at some innocent people not knowing they were not the disturbance.and they told me it wasn't them-they loved the movie and of course, i apologized to them but in any event I told the brats who ruined the movie for everyone that they "were not home watching their TV, they ruined the film for everyone and that they probably weren't even old enough to get into the theater. next time, i said, keep your friggen stupid mouths shut." I am sorry i didn't get up during the film to tell them off because they were stunned. My friend told me that during the movie people were looking over at the rowdy stupid group a lot. My question is why do people who are sitting nearby just sit and take it? If I had sat behind them, I would have taken care of the problem in two seconds. My friend also said that a straight couple were leaving and the male said that he thought I was taking it a little too seriously and his female friend indicated to him that there was a reason for this (maybe sensing I am gay, I guess). Anyway, it was a shitty experience tonight and I am committed to taking three more friends to see this (on 3 separate days) so I will pray for a better audience each time and after the eighth BBM visit, I will then wait for the DVD.

On a positive note, I wasn't bored by the film. I felt like I was wearing an old shoe, it felt comfortable and I was happy during the first part of the film and saved up my sadness for when things changed. Ideally, one more viewing would be great but I am committed to these three BBM dates but still, i know I will enjoy it (hoping the audience is better of course).
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Passion on January 20, 2006, 09:56:33 PM
When I saw it the second time I experienced a bad audience.  First two families came in with what appeared to be 6 or 7 year old children.  One family got up during the second night in the tent and the dad said very loudly that the movie SUCKED.  Just in case we questioned his masculinity!  My husband even thought it was ridiculous---he was not particularly enjoying the movie because it was too slow moving for him.  The other thing that happened was a baby was crying loudly and the parent moved to the hall but the cry echoed down into the theater!  Really was bad because I was trying to hard to listen to some of the lines I missed during my first viewing.  Oh well, I guess I get to go another time.  Oh ya--there was also a cop standing outside the theater door so my husband was a little concerned for his safety (not mine of course!!:) Who know why he was there--except that I live in a Red state that is almost completely controlled by Mormons!  I am not in Utah!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Tony on January 21, 2006, 01:52:26 AM
I am bringing a friend from work who wouldn't otherwise see it (very strict family influence). Oh God, its #5 for me.......................and I have  dates to see it 1/22, 1/24, 1/25. I am the official BBM tour guide here in Allentown PA. So far, the audiences have been stellar. It has just opened at a miltiplex but the venue I am going to is so much better for it. That would make 8 times. Wonder if we should have a thread about how many times we have seen this great film and why we keep revisiting it.
I love your title... "BBM tour guide"!
I had my 9th viewing last weekend...  I can't wait for my 10th!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: qguyhere on January 21, 2006, 02:19:20 AM
As in all my other viewings, there was silence for the last 30 minutes or so. And as in the other viewings, no one I could see or hear cried. Audiences cry at the cheapest, most manipulative crap. How could they not cry here?

I didn't cry either. Not that I wasn't moved, but the movie was just so powerful that it stunned me. I was stunned -- not shocked -- but emotionally stunned. I think most people were, too. It was only afterwards, when I got home, and thought about that the torrents of emotions started to hit.  I think this movie is amazing because it is not a manipulative tearjerking crap like The Notebook that just shameless yanks your tear ducts. This is one truly amazing movie that, like I said, simply stuns you. You can't stop thinking about it and about how it relates to your life -- it's so universal, whether you are straight, gay, bi, whatever. It stuns you. Then you connect and you can't stop but cry.

Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Pug on January 21, 2006, 05:17:48 AM
First time i sw it, i didn't cry because it was, in my words, "beyond sad." It was grief. Subsequent viewings I lost it and cried silently but with such ferocity that my body was shaking. Yes, it does grab you and doesn't release you from its spell.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: sherryfair on January 21, 2006, 09:23:06 AM
Has anyone noticed whether the audience has a lot of college-age girls in it? I'm noticing that some of the good reviews & editorials about Brokeback are appearing in college newspapers. Also, in my old hometown newspaper, in Upstate NY, I just read a profile of a high-achieving female student at one of the nearby SUNYs. In her profile, she lists "Brokeback Mountain" as her favorite movie. Hmmmm ... wondering whether this is a sign of another audience that the film is developing.

My first viewing was on the Monday morning after the movie opened in the East Village. (It had been sold out the weekend before & I couldn't get near it.) I stopped in the theatre while Christmas shopping, with a lot of bags at my feet. Even at 11:40 am, the theatre was about one-quarter filled. And remember, it had **just** opened. The audience was mixed, many people attending alone. Near silence. A little nervous laughter at the kiss. A gasp or two when the elk was shot, actually. And an audible pained moan when Jack was bashed with the tire-iron. I heard someone whisper, "That was what they'd do to you, back then." Then complete silence. I'd read the story many times before viewing so I was crying by the time the postcard arrived.

I will see it again in a suburban Westchester County theatre tomorrow afternoon at the noon showing, a discounted matinee that traditionally draws a lot of older couples.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: kaboyz on January 21, 2006, 10:03:35 AM
I am a gay male (27) and I saw bbm at Lowes Theater in Stony Brook (LI), NY and I have seen the movie twice there.  I was shocked to see all the older grey haired straight couples and young college aged females, during both viewings.  I went during the matinée and the theater was 80% full.  I went the Saturday before MLK day and then again on MLK day.  I didn't hear any laughing when Alma discovered Jack and Ennis kissing.  I was actually shocked to hear that ppl would laugh at that scene...all I heard were GASPS! 

The first time I saw the movie, I was on emotional overload and couldn't even express one single emotion.  Forget about the second time, I was a complete mess.  I looked around the theater and people were sobbing during Ennis and Jack's last scene together and then obviously through out the shirt and the I swear scenes.  Everyone was pretty much shocked and silent while leaving the theater, many ppl just sat there and cried, mostly younger females.

The audience seemed to enjoy the movie very much, laughing and crying where expected. It was uplifting to be around so many people that were so emotionally affected, as I was, by this movie.  It was like an unspoken comfort zone, kind of like when you do 'peace be with you' in church.   
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Pug on January 21, 2006, 10:11:39 AM
My one bad BBM audience experience was, as I said, last night with a row of teen age girls and one straight guy somewhere in then theater. Hopefully, tomorrow will be better when i am committed to go with a gay friend who has never seen it ans is very emotional.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: kaboyz on January 21, 2006, 08:05:45 PM
I am absolutely appalled!!!  I went to see BBM for the third time, a matinee...the show was sold out.  All old people, old straight salt and pepper haired couples.  I have read that many 'gays' have snickered during the scene when Alma busts Jack and Ennis making out...THESE OLD pple were hysterically laughing...I was amazed.  The husbands didn't stop SHOUTING through out the entire movie.  They wouldn't shut up, I felt like some grandpa racist was narrating the movie!  THEIR ON THE MOUNTAIN AGAIN!  I could have killed them.  THANK GOD this wasn't my first time seeing this movie, I would have wanted a refund!  They totally ruined the movie for me!  At least I now have an excuse to go back a 4th time!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Pug on January 21, 2006, 08:10:35 PM
kayboyz,
Yes I had that same pissed-off reaction to a group of teenage girls who didn't stop laughing. Surprisingly, at a screening I was at previously, there were many elderly people and not a sound was made by anyone. It has more to do with the level of sophistication than age. Those old geezers were low life morons. I hope you told them to shut the f#@k up (not that that phrase is very sophisticated either but they deserved it).
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Passion on January 21, 2006, 08:11:31 PM
I am so glad it wasn't your first time viewing it and that you get to go see it a 4th time! Sometimes I worry about the kinds of people we are living around! Wouldn't the world be great if everyone was just like the people on this board!  Wishful thinking!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Pug on January 21, 2006, 08:20:19 PM
Tomorrow at 1:30 Eastern Time, I revisit BBM (hoping a good audience -been 4 out of 5 good). Aisle seats are good in case you have to get up and ask someone to shut up.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: ottoblom on January 21, 2006, 08:30:05 PM
Hi all!

Living in Denmark, it can be very difficult to understand the impact of BBM in America.
. . .

But as I said - the gay theme hasn't really been talked about much - except stories from the US about the movie not being screened in cinemas in the Bible Belt.

Here in Denmark, the attitude is: Gay? And so what? It's a movie about impossible love.
...

The culture wars have clouded things a bit here in the US.  BBM is way beyond any issue.  It's  a deep meditation on the nature of love, as you say.   And I think most viewers here see it that way, but the with the country so divided now it is irresistable for people to flail about--in the press or on-line--one way or another, on the "gay issue."
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Edward on January 21, 2006, 09:41:41 PM
The audience reaction during my fifth viewing today compelled me to make my first post on this forum.  I went to a late afternoon matinee on a Saturday.  The theater was full, with only whiplash seats available.  During the reunion scene, when Jack and Ennis began their intensely passionate kiss, several people behind me gasped and a woman exclaimed "Oh my God!" This was well before Alma looked out the window, during which the audience was silent.  That woman's "oh my God!" (not an appalled or sarcastic reaction) only intensified the experience for me.  I truely believe that most audiences, regardless of their sexual orientation, are acutely aware that history is being made on the screen, in terms of fervid passion not seen since "From here to Eternity".
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Passion on January 21, 2006, 09:45:21 PM
I agree Edward.  I even exclaimed "O My God" when they started kissing so passionately---I was just taken off guard---it was a perfect reaction--again the Film not spoon feeding us the answers! I love it! 
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: wkw on January 21, 2006, 09:52:29 PM
It is so interesting watching the audience for BBM evolve. Last night, I went to the Sherman Oaks Galleria for a 4:20 show, my sixth viewing. The audience, of about 100 people, had to be 90% women, most of them middleaged. Quite a turnaround from opening day at the Grove in Los Angeles when the crowd seemed exclusively gay. Matinees have generally been a mix of older couples,  middle aged women and scattered singles and pairs of men.
      Luckily all the audiences  have been respectful of the film. Last night was the first time I saw someone walk out. After the first "tent scene" a straight couple,25-35... hard to tell in the dark, hurried down the steps and vanished into the hallway. Has anyone else witnessed  people leaving and not returning? I don't remember reading any posts about walkouts but I suppose it was inevitable.
                                                                                                          Bill
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Passion on January 21, 2006, 09:57:05 PM
I posted that a couple (30-40 age group) and a son (8 or 9) got up and walked out and the father yelled THIS MOVIE SUCKS! The theater was full and not one person moved!  Nor did they say anything back---I was glad because it was during the second tent scene and I was trying hard to listen to what Ennis said!  Very irritating!  Don't people read what the movie is about or rated before they attend! My second viewing was full of straight couples and groups of women.  There was a police officer stationed at the door---kind of weird but I guess it is Arizona--no telling what weirdos are lurking around!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: raku on January 21, 2006, 10:03:59 PM
I'm pleased to say that I've had 2 very positive experiences here in the Mitten State.  Both times the theater was absolutely as quiet as a pin.  I think I've never heard it so quiet.  Not a comment, not a murmur, until *well* into the credits.  No laughter, no phones, no giggles.  Kind of eerie, actually.  You would think you were the only person in the theater.  *Yay*

On the other hand, local stores are completely sold out of all related books, soundtracks, etc.  I did see one old copy of "The Shipping News" but that's it.  Clearly the movie's doing well locally.

Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Uclapeterg on January 21, 2006, 10:16:04 PM
It is so interesting watching the audience for BBM evolve. Last night, I went to the Sherman Oaks Galleria for a 4:20 show, my sixth viewing. The audience, of about 100 people, had to be 90% women, most of them middleaged. Quite a turnaround from opening day at the Grove in Los Angeles when the crowd seemed exclusively gay. Matinees have generally been a mix of older couples,  middle aged women and scattered singles and pairs of men.
      Luckily all the audiences  have been respectful of the film. Last night was the first time I saw someone walk out. After the first "tent scene" a straight couple,25-35... hard to tell in the dark, hurried down the steps and vanished into the hallway. Has anyone else witnessed  people leaving and not returning? I don't remember reading any posts about walkouts but I suppose it was inevitable.
                                                                                                          Bill

That's where I have seen it too! My first showing was at the Bridge, the rest at the Galleria. I'm going for my fifth time next week.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Pug on January 21, 2006, 10:20:36 PM
Well, fingers crossed, I hope I have a good audience tomorrow.

Thus far,  my BBM experiences:

#1: Audience fairly good..needed to ask the couple in front to be quiet once and there was a gay man with a deep baritone whisper who had a comment for everything (such as when Alma sees Ennis & Jake kiss, he said, "Poor thing" etc.) I wanted to kill him. Grrr.

#2:  Excellent respectful audience

#3:  Excellent, quiet audience except loud laughing conversation during credit roll.

#4: Perfect, perfect audience-you could hear a pin drop

#5: Horrible audience : stupid young girls- probably too young to see this film- laughing at everything

Wish me luck tomorrow!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Passion on January 21, 2006, 10:24:30 PM
Luck!  You stand up for yourself if anyone is not respectful!  (but don't get mad during any of the movie lines--you don't want to miss anything because you are telling someone to be quiet!) Wish I could go with you!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Pug on January 21, 2006, 10:39:58 PM
One day I will get my teeth shoved down my throat. During screening #1, I leaned forward and whispered "shut the fu@@k up." This was a date couple. They looked at each other and didn't say a peep for the rest of the movie.

I can't wait to get the DVD and watch it on my TV -50" (still paying it off), home theater DTS Sound, my own popcorn that is not $6.50 and I can cry all I want with out having to stifle it!

In another life, i would have been a very effective usher.

Nite Passion and everyone, heading off to sleep......................................I just love being here.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: ottoblom on January 22, 2006, 08:33:45 AM
My first time was in a packed E. Village theatre during a matinee on the first weekend.  THe mostly gay audience was pretty involved--a lot of laughing when Alma sees the kiss, which didn't bother me but did bother some.   The second time a few days later, at an eve. show in the upper west side, a more mixed audience, very respectful--but couldn't tell if they were into the movie.  THe third time was best for me, about 25 people at a matinee in Palm Springs--as other people have commented, having some privacy with BBM is a nice luxury--I had big fat tears rolling down my cheeks.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Pug on January 22, 2006, 08:39:33 AM
Less than 3 hours before BBM #6............................
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: PetterG on January 22, 2006, 09:10:14 AM
Less than two weeks before BBM #1.  ;)
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: kaboyz on January 22, 2006, 10:42:53 AM
I definitely think my bad experience w/ the older couples talking through out the entire movie and narrating each scene, had lots to do with the theater I went to.  The first two viewings were in a more 'classy' theater, in a not so trashy location, and the audience was silent and respectful.  I don't know, I'm just really glad this wasn't my first time seeing the movie.  I mean don't get me wrong, these people were EXTREMELY into the movie...they were REALLY enjoying it...but they just had no respect for the other people in the theater.  You would think when the actor from King of Queens does an instructional about movie etiquette, these people would have been educated!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: kw on January 22, 2006, 11:08:24 AM
I went to Chelsea, NYC for 4th viewing Sat 6:15 pm screening
about 70% full
mixed crowd
both gay and straight couples and groups
male/female about 1:1
mostly older than 25yo
very respectful audience
little laugh
a lot of sigh and sobbing
I cried my eyes out!


 
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Pug on January 22, 2006, 02:16:19 PM
Screening #6:
Excellent.
About 40% older seniors, many women, some gay people......
Sold Out and very quiet respectful audience. There were many "blue haired" ladies and older senior gentlemen over 75 and not a peep out of them. There was soft snifles during the last meeting at Brokeback which increased at the Post office and of course culminating at both shirts scenes (including me).
Excellent audience.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: kaboyz on January 22, 2006, 02:50:07 PM
I posted that a couple (30-40 age group) and a son (8 or 9) got up and walked out and the father yelled THIS MOVIE SUCKS! The theater was full and not one person moved!  Nor did they say anything back---I was glad because it was during the second tent scene and I was trying hard to listen to what Ennis said!  Very irritating!  Don't people read what the movie is about or rated before they attend! My second viewing was full of straight couples and groups of women.  There was a police officer stationed at the door---kind of weird but I guess it is Arizona--no telling what weirdos are lurking around!

First of all, why in the hell would someone bring an 8 or 9 year old, that is ludicrous!  That is so strange that there was a police officer stationed at the door!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: kaboyz on January 22, 2006, 09:14:50 PM
My straight male friend from WV saw bbm over the weekend, I was so so glad to hear he was going to see it, I have been dying for a straight not so open minded male friends take on the movie. 

His response: 

It was too drawn out.
I got it, Ennis didn't want to accept his feelings, Jack did, and it just played out.
Ennis was just too stubborn.
I guess I just didn't appreciate it for all it was worth.
I guess you can appreciate it more.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Pug on January 22, 2006, 09:21:38 PM
My straight (and best) friend and his wife saw it with me . He really liked it but most of all, he enjoyed the mountain scenery but he did like the film. He thought it was very good. This is coming from someone very secure in himself as he watched two seasons of QAF with his wife and really enjoyed that series. I would tape the show and give it to them to watch.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Passion on January 22, 2006, 09:26:07 PM
My straight male friend from WV saw bbm over the weekend, I was so so glad to hear he was going to see it, I have been dying for a straight not so open minded male friends take on the movie. 

His response: 

It was too drawn out.
I got it, Ennis didn't want to accept his feelings, Jack did, and it just played out.
Ennis was just too stubborn.
I guess I just didn't appreciate it for all it was worth.
I guess you can appreciate it more.

I would say that my husband's reaction was the same---he just added that at least Ennis had time with Jack for 20 years---rather than just the intial encounter.  And he reminded me that he doesn't like "artsy" films because they are too slow for him----I guess March of the Penquins would have brought out the same analysis from him!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: brokebackLJ on January 22, 2006, 09:28:48 PM
My sister saw it yesterday, she texted me saying she was in the theatre and then I called her after.
She said she thought it was great and that she thinks its really bad that people who love each other can't be together.
And I told her I was very happy she saw it, and she said my Mom (who I don't speak with) wants to hear the songs I wrote inspired by the movie...which was very sweet of her..it was a nice convo.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Delilah on January 22, 2006, 11:16:37 PM
Please take the time to go the BBM official website and open the "tell your story" section: there are lots of different inputs from all over the world, among them the most beautiful coming out stories I have ever read, especially enjoyed the ones written from Utah...THERE'S HOPE IN THE BEEHIVE STATE!!!!!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: killersmom on January 22, 2006, 11:43:01 PM
I noticed a few things this time I missed before. The line "We are working together so we might as well start drinking together" was not in there. I thought it was. And no one had ever mentioned that shot of Jack in the trailer standing shirtless on a bridge. Where the hell has that gone? And where would it be in the film?

Hiya Sparky!

I thought I was the only one who noticed this!

I posted about this in the "suggest new threads" post about a week before you posted this.

I also wonder what happened to that scene, and that line.

Those were only in the trailer for the movie, and did not make it to the movie itself... In a previous post someone stated they hoped these two scenes would make it into the deleted scenes of the DVD.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Tony on January 23, 2006, 12:29:01 AM
My 10th viewing was superb!
After so many weeks of showing BBM in L.A. (The Grove, this is the 7th weekend!!!), the theatre still gets packed.
It was the Sunday 4:35pm show.  We arrived at 4pm and the place was empty!  10 minutes before the start, the place was packed!
Some couples that arrived during the trailers had to seat in the front rows.
70% woman. Only 5-10% gay crowd.  Lots of 50's and above women.

The crowd was so into the film.
This is the first time ever I saw people leaving the theatre after the 1st and second tent scenes.  One big guy, one straigt couple.
I saw an asian couple that took their two kids!
The girls behind us were crying at the end.
40% of the crowd stayed to read the credits!

Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: jack on January 23, 2006, 04:13:26 AM
One day I will get my teeth shoved down my throat. During screening #1, I leaned forward and whispered "shut the fu@@k up." This was a date couple. They looked at each other and didn't say a peep for the rest of the movie.

I can't wait to get the DVD and watch it on my TV -50" (still paying it off), home theater DTS Sound, my own popcorn that is not $6.50 and I can cry all I want with out having to stifle it!

In another life, i would have been a very effective usher.

Nite Passion and everyone, heading off to sleep......................................I just love being here.
hey pug, want some company?
uh, watching the DVD, i meant, of course, uh, you know...

jack
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Pug on January 23, 2006, 04:30:49 AM
Yeah, sure why not!

I will miss the communal experience when then theatrical run ends but the joy of being able to see it w/o interruption is something to look forward to.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: jack on January 23, 2006, 04:50:45 AM
you may have just made a date.  i am not that far away...

jack
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Pug on January 23, 2006, 04:55:28 AM
saw that!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: jack on January 23, 2006, 05:27:45 AM
saw that!
we could invite lynn if you think we'd need a chaperone.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Luckie Starchild on January 23, 2006, 09:15:58 AM
Okay, I really need to vent.  I am sick and tired of people telling in my life me that BBM is getting a free pass (with the critics and awards) simply because it features a same-sex relationship.  I spoke to a friend last night – she has not seen BBM but she was going on and on about how it does not deserve to win awards.  She is basing her entire opinion on the trailer.  She stated that the movie has turned into a huge joke because of the late night shows, etc.

Anyway, I wouldn’t exactly say she is homophobic but she definitely has issues about gay people she needs to work on.  She happens to be African-American, and I know she would be very offended if I said similar things to her about a movie with Black people.  I respect and understand that not everyone is going to like BBM but I don’t need to hear people who have not seen it tell me that it is undeserving of acclaim.

Thanks for listening to me.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: exlogcabin on January 23, 2006, 09:24:50 AM
Hey Luckie,

Sorry to hear that your African American friend feels that way.  But you should feel comfortable to throw it back at her and ask how she feels when people say that Halle Berry only got so much acclaim because she was black.  Tell her it is the same scenerio and that as a fellow minority, we need to be more sympathetic towards one another's struggles and search for recognition and acclaim.  She really shouldn't take this "victory" from us.

Exlogcabin.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: waynerman on January 23, 2006, 09:33:02 AM
Story about how two groups--a PFLAG chapter and the Kansas Coalition for Equality--helped to bring BBM to Manhattan, Kansas:

http://kstatecollegian.com/article.php?a=8489

Manhattan is home to Kansas State University and has a huge student population. Interesting that it was not a student effort that brought the film to town...and the students' reactions to the movie are reportedly mixed.

Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Luckie Starchild on January 23, 2006, 09:43:20 AM
Hey Luckie,

Sorry to hear that your African American friend feels that way.  But you should feel comfortable to throw it back at her and ask how she feels when people say that Halle Berry only got so much acclaim because she was black.  Tell her it is the same scenerio and that as a fellow minority, we need to be more sympathetic towards one another's struggles and search for recognition and acclaim.  She really shouldn't take this "victory" from us.

Exlogcabin.

Thank you for your message.  I just sent my friend an email and told her how I felt.  I told her I loved her but was feeling a little hurt and offended by her comments.  I hope she understands where I'm coming from.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: exlogcabin on January 23, 2006, 10:08:52 AM
Great.  Hope she responds favorably, as I am sure a good friend would. 

See how this movie really opens up a dailogue?

For me, it's not so much moving the bigots over to love us, but rather the small movements of everyone else.  From those who are neutral about gay relationships to becoming more understanding, from those who call themselves passive allies to becoming advocates and from simple tolerance to acceptance and then love.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: ruth on January 23, 2006, 10:31:05 AM
I spent the weekend in a cabin on the coast with a dear friend and her mom.  I had hoped at one point to be able to coerce my friend into seeing BBM with me but when I mentioned it a few weeks back she sort of guffawed and made some noises to the effect that the whole thing was kind of a joke...I believe she had been watching Jon Stewart and maybe Jay Leno and knew not much of the film other than all the gay "jokes". Which is really sad.

So this weekend I brought along a copy of "Close Range" and as it was rainy we stayed in one night, built a fire and read. Both my friend and her mother read the BBM portion that night; my friend at first said now she knew she didn't want to see it because she would probably cry.

But later on after bedtime we were awake chatting and she asked me a lot of questions about the movie, the actors involved,  etc. Very much intrigued. I am hoping there will be a viewing sometime in the near future.

Interesting how even though the public has been innundated with all the Leno-style humor and ridicule re: BBM and yet, there it is! Really when you think about it, even though the film is outstanding, what are the chances it could survive and thrive the way it has, under such circumstances? It's weird. It gives me faith somehow in my fellow humans.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Vicky0uk on January 23, 2006, 10:41:10 AM
Saw it yesterday in Covent Garden in London.

The cinema was almost full, as was the showing before ours. There was a mix of groups of gay men, same-sex and opposite sex couples of varying ages and sexualities (!), and few mother-daughter couples (including myself).

Throughout the audience was mostly rapt. A woman near my mother was sniffing. One silly mare behind me kept commenting, thank goodness not during any of the important scenes. At the end I heard her saying that she expected more action but since one of the comments she made concerned the pattern on Ennis's pajama bottoms I really expected very little else from her.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Luckie Starchild on January 23, 2006, 10:53:46 AM
Great.  Hope she responds favorably, as I am sure a good friend would. 

See how this movie really opens up a dailogue?

For me, it's not so much moving the bigots over to love us, but rather the small movements of everyone else.  From those who are neutral about gay relationships to becoming more understanding, from those who call themselves passive allies to becoming advocates and from simple tolerance to acceptance and then love.

I just got an email from her and she said she was sincerely sorry that I felt hurt.  I think it was a productive exchange.  She will likely see the movie, maybe she won't like it but I have a strong feeling she will able to understand how many people will be deeply touched by it.  I don't think my response was an issue about political correctness -- I simply felt compelled to let her know how I had felt about some of her remarks. 

You are so right.  This movie is really opening up dialogues and, in ways great and small, allowing people to understand us and for that, I will be eternally grateful.

Luckie
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Pug on January 23, 2006, 10:53:55 AM
Leno is so weird because he really liked the film but has nevertheless damaged it by being stupid.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: killersmom on January 23, 2006, 10:55:23 AM
Saw it yesterday in Covent Garden in London.

The cinema was almost full, as was the showing before ours. There was a mix of groups of gay men, same-sex and opposite sex couples of varying ages and sexualities (!), and few mother-daughter couples (including myself).

Throughout the audience was mostly rapt. A woman near my mother was sniffing. One silly mare behind me kept commenting, thank goodness not during any of the important scenes. At the end I heard her saying that she expected more action but since one of the comments she made concerned the pattern on Ennis's pajama bottoms I really expected very little else from her.

Vicky,
I laughed out loud at your post ;D

Yes I have had to listen to comments like that in the times I have been to see the movie, although luckily not many. The last time I went I had to tell a guy to shush as he was doing a running commentary thru the whole movie. I think it was nervousness.

On the whole, reactions here are pretty much the same.

Thanks for posting here and sharing with us. Keep it up. :D

killersmom
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: WLAGuy on January 23, 2006, 11:44:53 AM
One silly mare behind me kept commenting, thank goodness not during any of the important scenes.

I love British expressions.  MUCH more imaginative than Americans.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Delilah on January 23, 2006, 12:00:20 PM
My mom went to see it today on her own, father obviously didn't care...SHE LOVED EVERY MINUTE OF IT, MESMERIZED BY STORY, CAST, EVERYTHING!!!!! Good for her, I told her...PLEASE GO SEE IT, you will come out of the theater a different person, and I was right!!!!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: killersmom on January 23, 2006, 12:04:21 PM
One silly mare behind me kept commenting, thank goodness not during any of the important scenes.

I love British expressions.  MUCH more imaginative than Americans.
 

Hey Guy, that is exactly what I was thinking. ;D
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: FinnGal on January 23, 2006, 04:37:45 PM
Probably off-topic this but I would just like to have something clarified for me regarding the assessing of the sexual orientation of the audiences out there gathering to see BBM: how can it be so easy for people to instantly tell whether the men coming to see the film are gay? Are they dressing/acting in a way as to make it that much more likely? See, I always thought that the vast majority of gays are like, well, Jack and Ennis, in the sense that a stranger really couldn´t make any assumptions about their sexual identity. Yet here many keep casually mentioning how a particular audience was either full of gays or a mixed crowd or consisting mostly of straight people etc..  I´m sorry if this seems a bit of a stupid question, but I´m just really curious as to how it can be so easy to tell and wheter it is based on outward appearance or behaviour?

Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: BobcatJH on January 23, 2006, 04:46:10 PM
There were some idiots in the Ohio theater where I saw it, something I wrote about (http://hughesforamerica.typepad.com/hughes_for_america/2006/01/on_brokeback_mo.html) here:
Settling into our seats Friday night in the packed Northeast Ohio theater - the Cinemark at Valley View - a palpable charge was in the air. The film's subject matter and award-winning stature left the diverse audience eager to take in Ang Lee's masterpiece. When the complex relationship between Wyoming ranchmen Ennis Del Mar and Jack Twist developed, however, we began to notice a level of immaturity I've rarely seen at the cineplex, one indicative of our bigoted society.

As the relationship between Ennis (Heath Ledger) and Jack (Jake Gyllenhaal) turned romantic, cries of "ew" mingled with laughter from a sizeable portion of the audience. One woman behind us exclaimed, "Thanks for preparing me for that," as though she had been completely ignorant of the storyline. Apart from the typical theater annoyances, there were, on multiple occasions, moments when people's classless actions marred an otherwise gripping experience.

That we live in a society that stigmatizes homosexuality is a notion as heartbreaking as the movie itself. Not only is it heartbreaking, but it's also unbelievably angering. And that anger, apart from a profound sadness, is the feeling I left the theater with Friday. I'm angry that people like Chris Matthews can make homophobic jokes (http://mediamatters.org/items/200601200002) and get away with it. I'm angry that the Washington Post can run homophobic cartoons (http://americablog.blogspot.com/2006/01/washington-post-publishes-bigoted-anti.html) and get away with it. I'm angry that theater owners can make homophobic decisions (http://kutv.com/topstories/local_story_017121652.html) to refuse to run the movie and get away with it. I'm angry that conservatives can make homophobic critiques (http://mediamatters.org/items/200601200005) of "Brokeback Mountain" without seeing it and get away with it. Above all else, I'm angry that our society continues to treat honest, law-abiding, tax-paying Americans as second-class citizens.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Uclapeterg on January 23, 2006, 04:48:50 PM
Well, "gays" can act as many different ways as "straights" can. There are a lot of Jacks and Ennises as well as any other types.

You bring up a very good question, though.

Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: killersmom on January 23, 2006, 05:05:12 PM
Probably off-topic this but I would just like to have something clarified for me regarding the assessing of the sexual orientation of the audiences out there gathering to see BBM: how can it be so easy for people to instantly tell whether the men coming to see the film are gay? Are they dressing/acting in a way as to make it that much more likely? See, I always thought that the vast majority of gays are like, well, Jack and Ennis, in the sense that a stranger really couldn´t make any assumptions about their sexual identity. Yet here many keep casually mentioning how a particular audience was either full of gays or a mixed crowd or consisting mostly of straight people etc..  I´m sorry if this seems a bit of a stupid question, but I´m just really curious as to how it can be so easy to tell and wheter it is based on outward appearance or behaviour?




There really are no stupid questions and this one is really thought provoking, especially for me ???

I got to thinking about what you asked and as a straight woman having seen the movie 7X, I cannot honestly say how I know. I like to observe people. Is is a sense? I honestly don't know. Do other people observe me as being a lesbian as I am female and mostly go the movie by myself. That may be.

Some men are obvious couples...some women are obvious couples. I see the same body language toward each other as I see between hetero couples, so that may be part of it. Do I assume a single male who comes to the movie by himself is gay...I guess I do and may well be mistaken in that assumption, just as people may make an incorrect assumption about me.

It is something I am going to think about, and if I come to some different conclusions I will get back with you.

This may be a topic to be discussed in the anything gay - anything bi topic. Here's the link

http://davecullen.com/forum/index.php?board=35.0

Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: sherryfair on January 23, 2006, 06:37:54 PM
Well, my mother finally persuaded my 70-year-old father to see "Brokeback Mountain" with her. So as not to disturb my father's football-viewing habits, they went today, to a Monday 1:30 p.m. matinee. They report only six or seven other people in the theater with them. (This was in a theater where the movie just opened with this past Friday's expansion, and of course, on a working day.) They saw the movie in upstate NY, about 20 minutes northwest of Syracuse, in what I'd call a fairly conservative area. My mother reports that she and my father liked the movie, and that my mother herself cried a little while watching it. My father "felt sorry for the light-haired guy [Ennis]." Since you don't know my family, this will mean little to you, but I should say that my father's fairly socially conservative, though a long-time Democratic voter, in the old, ethnic, blue-collar tradition. (I am their odd, "artsy" daughter who wrote poetry & moved down near Manhattan as soon as she could.) What I would say for Focus Features is that, if you have my father attending & approving of this movie -- true, after much concerted effort on the part of his wife & daughter ;) -- then you are beginning to truly reach an untapped market.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Pug on January 23, 2006, 06:47:36 PM
Quote
There were some idiots in the Ohio theater where I saw it, something I wrote about here:

BobcatJH, I have written to MSNBC, the loser Don Imus and the other bigot Chris Mathews. How stupid are they? MSNBC is owned by NBC (General Electric). NBC/General Electric owns much of Universal Pictures, parent compoany of Focus Features. And the goddam Washington Post, I wrote them as well for their tasteless gay hating comic strip regarding BBM. thanks for keeping us in the know.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: M. Alexander on January 23, 2006, 07:12:42 PM
Brokeback friends,

It is so good to write here with you all again. What a wonderful forum we have here! Thank you, Dave. (And good job last night, by the way.) I just wanted to report here that my 78 year old Republican mother went on her on volition to BBM this week-end in Florida where she is at the moment. She went with another female friend (don't know her politics..) but the reaction - to my utter joy - was totally positive. My mom told me yesterday on the phone that she found the movie: "Wonderful. Great acting. Beautiful to see and a beautiful story". I was just thrilled. We talked for some 20 minutes and most it concerned Brokeback. What a keen observer she was! I asked her: did you get the scene with the shirts and she said, to my astonishment: I picked up that line of Ennis' when they leave Brokeback about "leaving that shirt behind" and thought - we're going to hear about that shirt again..." Couldn't believe it. She said "I didn't actually cry during the movie but it has really made me think about it since I saw it." I told her - Mom, that was my response too. I can't tell you all how proud of her I was and how validated it made me feel. She knows I loved the movie if not exactly the depth to which it has resonated within me. (Although, intuitive parent that she is, maybe she does!) Anyway, I thought this was a wonderful response from a fairly conservatiive, if compassionate, person. If this near 80 year old Republican thought this way, maybe others will be responding similarly... I have thought so all along and now it feels more convincing than ever. :D
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: wkw on January 23, 2006, 07:46:35 PM
Hi FinnGirl,
              I don't believe our assumptions about BBM's audience sexual orientation have anything to do with behavior or appearance. The sad fact is that 50% of the movie going audience, minus gay men and males dragged to the film by wives and girlfriends, was never going to embrace this film no matter how good the reviews or how many the awards. Call it homophobia, the ick factor or an abhorrence to emotional films , most straight American men never saw BBM as something they might enjoy. This "fear" makes the boxoffice numbers for BBM that much more amazing. The film is succeeding without 35%-40% of the movie going publics support.
                                                                                                         Bill
             
             
             
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Timothy on January 23, 2006, 08:11:29 PM
A friend went to see BBM on Saturday for the first time.  He did NOT want to go but felt that as a gay man he had to go see it or he'd be left out when everyone talked about it.  I asked him today what he thought.

He said he liked the movie but still doesn't know how he feels about it.  It left him stunned and not sure what to think.  It was definitely not the "western" he thought it was going to be.  He intends on going back again because he thinks there are too many subtleties he didn't catch the first time.  He was amazed that everyone was so awful to each other (he has a close family) and at the devastating impact that not being true to yourself can have on literally everyone around you.

In discussing it I realized something.  We all have seen some old crotchety crank that stays to himself and doesn't belong.  i think this is the first movie - gay, straight, whatever - that tells that guy's story.

Incidentally, he said the theater was pretty mixed crowd (the Grove in Los Angeles) and he saw a lot of straight couples.  His boyfriend's Latin and they were surprised to see a lot of big cholo type guys there with their wives.  I had notice that too in one of my viewings.

****

In a separate incident, I was having dinner at El Coyote on Saturday night.  My middle aged Latina waitress told us that my friend, who has big puppydog eyes, looked like "that guy in Brokeback Mountain."  I asked her if she saw it and, to my surprise she said "I did and I cried through the whole thing."

Which made me wonder... does anyone know how BBM is doing by ethnic demographic?
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: exlogcabin on January 23, 2006, 08:16:43 PM
All right, Timothy, if your friend looks like Jake, then I want to meet him, too!!! :)

I saw BBM again today (for the 5th time) and it was at the Grove again.  This time, there were about 30-40 people in the audience, pretty good for a Monday afternoon.  There was a really annoying pair of girls who laughed at EVERYTHING.  Eventually I just had to give them a dirty look.  I was so afraid they were going to ruin the final scenes with Jake and Heath.  Luckily, they seemed to have been touched by the film, as they were quiet for the final 20 minutes.  They even whispered, when Heath gets the returned postcard, in shock, "oh my god, no."

Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: brokebackLJ on January 23, 2006, 08:30:14 PM
I took notes before the movie started,
it began with me and this elderly woman...
then a young gay couple came in...then a few men alone...
then two straight couples...then a group of two girls, like you exlogcabin, were chatting and laughing the entire time...
there was this elderly group behind me and the woman kept saying funny/weird things...
like when you read the postcard that says deceased she goes "Oh no!"
it was so weird to here it when i'm lost in my own thoughts.

I wish I could see it alone alone and not with so many people especially the annoying girls who were laughing at everything that wasn't funny...it's interesting to see all these grown men going alone to see the movie....
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: desperadum on January 23, 2006, 08:42:49 PM
Which theater did you go to, LJ? I've seen it at two, Loew's 68th Street and Chelsea Cinemas. I found the uptown audience to be far more quiet and respectful and, by the end, quietly emotional. I was shocked at the tittering and laughing in Chelsea. I keep resisting the urge to see it again soon - I want badly to go, but want to keep it fresh and special. I might break down and go for number four this weekend. So far I've only seen it with a friend, but I think I'm ready to go solo.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Pug on January 23, 2006, 08:47:58 PM
The best audience in my experience has been matinees with a lot of cool, elderly folk. very quiet and respectful...
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: kw on January 23, 2006, 08:48:50 PM
Should Bush's response to BBM be discussed here although he's not audience, friends or family!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Pug on January 23, 2006, 08:51:26 PM
Quote
Should Bush's response to BBM be discussed here although he's not audience, friends or family!
What post is this referring to? Thanks!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: saianel on January 23, 2006, 08:59:13 PM
One reaction I hated from people is when Jack tells Ennis: "this is a bitch of an unsatisfactory situation".   I heard several people laughing, and it really pissed me off.  It was so distracting.  I was so into the argument, and those laughs made me realize how stupid some str8 men are!!   ::)
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: killersmom on January 23, 2006, 09:10:49 PM
...it's interesting to see all these grown men going alone to see the movie....

I am seeing that too the more I see the movie. I am also seeing more individual women as well. I go alone, but mainly because I don't have anyone to go with. When I talk about the movie to women friends I know and they say they want to see it, I tell them I'll go with them. They say OK but never get back or commit to a  time. So....
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: STeve25430 on January 23, 2006, 09:23:58 PM
>:(  Got to go see it for the 3rd time tonight. I could not believe my partner actually brought it up. We took his str8 brother with us, he had gone the first time too but the sound was so awful  and this time he enjoyed hearing all Ennis had to say.
This was the worst crowd yet. First time total silence the whole movie.  Second time some laughter IE when Alma catches the boys.
This time laughter the whole time.  People talking texting and beeping on cell phones. Getting up and down.
The lady in front of me said something to one of the offending groups but it only worked for a few minutes.  I wish they would have walked out.
As much as I had wanted to see it again for the close ups of Ennis and Jack and the mountains, all I can think about now is seeing it on DVD in peace and quiet!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Pug on January 23, 2006, 09:29:04 PM
STeve25430,
sorry you had this expereince. What area of the country are you in?
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: desperadum on January 23, 2006, 09:54:12 PM
First time: with gay male friend who works as a stylist on broadway and television and who was distracted by what he considered inferior make-up and hairpieces. Otherwise, he seemed unmoved. Pre-release screening was packed, many gay men, largely respectful.

Second time: with close straight female friend. She was very moved, chastised me for not suggesting she bring Kleenex. Very respectful audience.

Third time: Gay male friend who somehow had not gone to see it yet. He really liked it, and teared up at the end - something he rarely does - although he hasn't been much interested in dicussing it since dinner immediately following. Audience on the tittery side; one jerk laughed at everything, including the scene at Jack's parents when the father said Jack had talked about bringing his ranch foreman friend up to Lighting Flat.

Friends who have seen it (a sampling):

Close gay male friend my age (mid-40s) who lives with boyfriend in smallish town - really liked it, was haunted by it, stuck with him - we have not discussed it at great length, but I was taken aback when he opined that Jack was a 'ho, and that Ennis was not gay.

Gay male 20-something friend who lives in Savannah, thought it was good, but too long and slow.

Straight male married friend my age, originally from New Zealand, very gay friendly, liked it a lot, was overwhelmed by what a great movie it was in every respect. I lent him the short story, which on first reading he said he didn't like as well as the film.

Straight married with young child female friend in mid-thirties, really liked it - she rarely gets to see movies - was a little hung-up on the phone conversation scene between Ennis and Lurleen, thought Lurleen came off very cold and was bothered by this.

Middle-aged gay guy at a holiday party, liked it, was convinced Lurleen's daddy had Jack killed and wouldn't hear otherwise (I threw that in just because I was surprised by his insistence on this point).

I have found the discussion here more edifying than with almost anyone I know who has seen it.

Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: brokebackLJ on January 23, 2006, 10:04:56 PM
I discussed it with my crazy acting professor today
She said she loved it, thought it was shot very well, but thought it got very slow moving...but loved the 'moments' that were in, which means there were certain moments of acting that were created and flawless, however she felt some of them were 'acting' sometimes and not really feeling the moment they were in...she said she thought michelle's performance was incredible and raw from an acting point of view, and that heath was great...she thought annie had a little bit of a vanity complex, that she enjoyed 'playing' the role rather than being the role, and i tried to talk to her about the phone scene but she said, the way anne played it, she got that she knew all along....i disagreed, but had to run to class.
good to talk with someone about the 'acting' aspects of it, since i'm an actor and am very into how each of the performances was created by the director and the inner monologue the actor/actress' had to create. that's why the anne hathaway post about how she will never tell how she felt about the phone call scene and her motivation for it....so awesome.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: killersmom on January 23, 2006, 10:19:13 PM
I have found the discussion here more edifying than with almost anyone I know who has seen it.

Hey Des,
Let the holiday party guy know, if you get the chance to talk to him about it again that Lurleen's daddy was dead by the time he (Jack) died/was killed. I have seen some on the posts speculate that his own dad (Jack's) killed him. Just a thought.

I have been 7X now. Two with my best friend and business partner. Surprised me by going with me the first time and even more so the second time. It did not affect her as it has me. The next time with a straight acquaintance...who was ambivilent.  The rest of the time has been by myself. 

Something I saw in another thread, (maybe earlier in this one) was that there are a lot more single males (meaning by themselves) at the showings . I am seeing that as well where  I live.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Tony on January 23, 2006, 10:41:14 PM
My mom went to see it today on her own, father obviously didn't care...SHE LOVED EVERY MINUTE OF IT, MESMERIZED BY STORY, CAST, EVERYTHING!!!!! Good for her, I told her...PLEASE GO SEE IT, you will come out of the theater a different person, and I was right!!!!
You're lucky to have a mom like her!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Tony on January 23, 2006, 10:47:38 PM
Probably off-topic this but I would just like to have something clarified for me regarding the assessing of the sexual orientation of the audiences out there gathering to see BBM: how can it be so easy for people to instantly tell whether the men coming to see the film are gay? Are they dressing/acting in a way as to make it that much more likely? See, I always thought that the vast majority of gays are like, well, Jack and Ennis, in the sense that a stranger really couldn´t make any assumptions about their sexual identity. Yet here many keep casually mentioning how a particular audience was either full of gays or a mixed crowd or consisting mostly of straight people etc..  I´m sorry if this seems a bit of a stupid question, but I´m just really curious as to how it can be so easy to tell and wheter it is based on outward appearance or behaviour?
There are people that their gaydar works properly.  I am pretty sure the ones talking about how many gay/lesbians were in the room, have a very sentitive gaydar system.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: kaboyz on January 23, 2006, 10:53:31 PM
I am starting to realize this movie has had a larger affect on me then most of my friends.  I mean not all of my friends have seen it yet, but most of the ones who have, stated it was too long and slow and the point was made perfectly clear that Ennis was never going to accept who he was and settle with Jack.  I feel like they are missing something and they feel I am reading too deeply into it.  I guess here is the best place for me to come to relate to others who are passionate about the movie.   
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: exlogcabin on January 23, 2006, 10:53:39 PM
CALLING ALL BBM'ERS IN LA

UCLAPeterG and I have been talking about going to a screening together.  Anyone else interested in joining us?  If so, please send me a PM.

Exlogcabin
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: kaboyz on January 23, 2006, 10:56:39 PM
http://www.youtube.com/w/PRESIDENT-BUSH-ASKED-OPINION-ON-GAY-MOVIE-BROKEBACK-MOUNTAIN?v=vSdJvr706Zo&search=brokeback%20mountain

Bush being asked if he saw BBM
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: kaboyz on January 23, 2006, 11:34:07 PM
I had the experience of being in a Southern Jock Straight Military fraternity when I was in college.  I got to know the male species very well.  I formed amazing bonds and my sexuality didn't come up until I came out my junior year.  I was not at all 'gay acting' and they had no real reason to question my sexuality.  I got to really hear how stupid boys talk about gay people and witnessed how much of pigs they actually were, but deep down most of them were good ppl, lol.  I very much advocated for gays during my time in the fraternity, but mainly b/c my father is gay (and myself), so they usually interpreted my passion in his defense.  I have been out of college for four years and have kept in touch with many of my fraternity brothers.  I am glad to say that I opened a lot of their eyes/minds when I came out my Junior year.  Their stereotypes and hatred was addressed and we all became better people in the end.  I have even recently talked to three of my fraternity brothers that have gone and seen BBM.  Obviously they weren't as passionate as I was about the movie, but I was amazed that they were able to be open minded enough to see it.  Five years ago, I don't think they would have ever agreed to see this movie.  Deep down I pat myself on the back for opening their eyes, lol!  I was glad they could identify with the real theme of the movie and looked past the fact that it was about two men.       
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Tony on January 24, 2006, 12:31:50 AM
In a separate incident, I was having dinner at El Coyote on Saturday night.  My middle aged Latina waitress told us that my friend, who has big puppydog eyes, looked like "that guy in Brokeback Mountain."  I asked her if she saw it and, to my surprise she said "I did and I cried through the whole thing."
Which made me wonder... does anyone know how BBM is doing by ethnic demographic?
I am glad you are asking about how's BBM is doing by ethnic demographics.  I can speak about the latinos.  I have not seen many latinos in the theatres and after 10 viewings, they still don't show up.  Why?  Most of Latinos in the US still think like in the 60's (Close minded in the homosexual issues).  There are a lot of reasons: 1)The "Macho" idiosyncrasy; 2) Latinos from US  have low levels of education = ignorance; 3) Most of immigrants from Mexico, Central America etc. have low levels of education too...again ignorance imported from the south.  There's not much we can do with that market here in the US for now...

On the other hand, I have the feeling that BBM could become a big hit in Mexico.  Why?  First, The mentality of Mexicans living in Mexico has changed quite significant specially in the area of movies.  There are three movies (Amores Perros, Y tu mama tambien(gay theme), El secreto del padre amaro) released in the last 4 years that were full of unspeakable themes.  Still, those three films became major hits in the country.  Why?  They're some how more liberal, some how more challenging of the system.  The more the church says "Don't go to watch it", the more the Mexicans go to watch a movie. 

Second, the Rodrigo Prieto factor.  He's from Mexico.  There's a high probability he will be nominated for the Oscar.  The movie is openning in Mexico on the weekend of the awards (Friday 3rd).  Too bad for them!  If he wins, which I doubt still, that will be a huge push for the movie.  Mexico was close of winning an oscar 4 yrs ago.  The only Mexican I know that have won an Oscar (actually two) is Anthony Quinn in 52 and '56.  Almost 50 yrs ago!  Thus, if a Mexican wins, the country would be pround and people would be willing to "open" their minds a little bit and would be willing to see the "Cowboy movie".

Third, the cowboy factor.  The Mexican culture knows very well the "Cowboy lifestyle", a lot of Mexicans in the rural areas and even big cities love to wear hats and boots.  BBM is an environment that most of them know.

Fourth, the "Down Low" factor.  Do you know what's the rate of married Mexican guys that have homosexual tendencies?  Quite big, trust me.

Six, there's a buzz already.  I checked one of the most important websites in Mexico (esmas.com) owned by the world's largest Spanish-language broadcaster, who controls the Mexican television market (70%!), and now they have the link to the trailer of BBM!  The translation they gave to BBM is pretty good, "Secreto en la montana (Secret on the mountain)"  There's no proper translation for "Brokeback", sorry..  The subtitles are well translated (I cried...).  At the end of the trailer they added with huge fonts "Winner of the Award for best picture in Venice Film Festival" Also, the website included a survey asking if the public is interested to watch BBM.  Well, 54% said "they're dying to watch it"   :o Wow!  22% said that "they don't like the theme", and 24% said that "they will wait to hear the opinion of others".  Well, most of that 24% will hear good reviews sooner or later.  They're over a month away of releasing the movie and a lot of them are already aware of the movie and waiting to watch it.
This movie could become a social shocker for the country.
If it does well in Mexico, then a lot of Mexican living here, will say "Ough, I didn't know it was out here..."  By that time, they won't have other choice but to rent it in a Blockbuster...

Sorry about this long comment....

Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Tony on January 24, 2006, 12:36:07 AM
I took notes before the movie started,
Thanks for taking the time to write notes... very nice.. You should be a reporter!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Tony on January 24, 2006, 12:37:52 AM
The best audience in my experience has been matinees with a lot of cool, elderly folk. very quiet and respectful...
I agree...
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Tony on January 24, 2006, 12:56:12 AM
I very much advocated for gays during my time in the fraternity, but mainly b/c my father is gay (and myself), so they usually interpreted my passion in his defense. 
I am glad to say that I opened a lot of their eyes/minds when I came out my Junior year. 

I was amazed that they were able to be open minded enough to see it. 
Deep down I pat myself on the back for opening their eyes, lol!  I was glad they could identify with the real theme of the movie and looked past the fact that it was about two men.       
WOW, I am proud of you!  You are a real advocate and be able to face fraternity military guys and change their minds?  There're a few people like you that are smart enough, strong enough and have the gift to say the right things to change views of closed minded people.
Keep the hard work!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Hmmmm on January 24, 2006, 08:17:52 AM
http://www.youtube.com/w/PRESIDENT-BUSH-ASKED-OPINION-ON-GAY-MOVIE-BROKEBACK-MOUNTAIN?v=vSdJvr706Zo&search=brokeback%20mountain

Bush being asked if he saw BBM

I think this is reaction if very good for the movie and about as good as we could expect from Bush.  I think it is good for the movie for a several reasons:

1) The AP story and the clip accent the college male (apparently wearing a "W" hat) saying "you would love it, you should check it out."  The students view is highlighted in the AP article and the enthusiasm really comes through in the clip
2) He did not say anything negative about the movie or about gays
3) He points out he has heard about it but makes makes no other comment.  He stays neutral on it.  Not seeing it does not stop any of the conservative detractors typically.  But not how he doesn't say anything negative.  He just stays neutral.  That is a very telling sign of how his handlers and pollsters think this will playout in the mainstream.  That can't make the right wingnuts happy.  They have to be a bit baffled I imagine.
4) It was reported by the AP and was picked up very widely in the US and the world

It will be interesting to see what revisions his spokespeople and spinners do over the next couple of weeks.  But I bet they keep to the "he hasn't seen it" line.  It is a very good sign of how they see (with their sophisticated polling) BBM playing out in America.


Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Luckie Starchild on January 24, 2006, 09:28:56 AM
I've seen it at two, Loew's 68th Street and Chelsea Cinemas. I found the uptown audience to be far more quiet and respectful and, by the end, quietly emotional.

I also saw it at the Loew's 68th Street -- and the audience was just as you described. 
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: richardL on January 24, 2006, 10:04:49 AM
Oh God .. what's happening to me ? I've been it tears reading the "how it has affected me" posts now I'm doing the same reading this lot !

I went with my partner of 9 yrs to see it. He cried fairly quietly during parts of it ... kept elbows on the armrests and thus hands readily available at the tear ducts ...
Our audience was in Staines (yes, really) West London .. fairly well-off but working class area which I was real nervous about  .. fearing bad lads jeering or giggles at the wrong moments.    The crowd was very mixed, more than anyone, groups of women in 2s3s4s etc. Plenty of gay male couples .. plenty of fags and hags (sorry for non-pc-ness). Despite all my misgivings, they were a perfect audience .. not  a peak, just some stiffled sobs and a few noses being blown.
Funny thing .. on the way out there was a queue to the toilets .. I'm guessing to blow-nose for those without tissues and check eye make-up .. never seen that before.
I couldn't cry .. I couldn't let it out .. I'd have wailed and never stopped.
Rich
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: brokebackLJ on January 24, 2006, 10:44:19 AM
Which theater did you go to, LJ? I've seen it at two, Loew's 68th Street and Chelsea Cinemas. I found the uptown audience to be far more quiet and respectful and, by the end, quietly emotional. I was shocked at the tittering and laughing in Chelsea. I keep resisting the urge to see it again soon - I want badly to go, but want to keep it fresh and special. I might break down and go for number four this weekend. So far I've only seen it with a friend, but I think I'm ready to go solo.

I saw it five out of the six times at Lowes on 3rd and 11th. I saw it once at 68th street--and I agree, the reaction was a lot more quiet and respectful.
The first time I saw it, I nearly punched this girl out sitting behind me....I guess the best time of day is to go early evening or late afternoon like I did last night at 5:30 alone, which is a great experience...you and luckiestarchild should check out our little group possibly going to a showing together, if you're interested. The more the merrier. The post is in the members area forum thingie....
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Timothy on January 24, 2006, 02:03:59 PM
Tony: thank's for the info on Mexico.  I look forward to seeing when it's released there.

Everyone: as for the giggling girls.  I know it's annoying but I wouldn't take it as a sign of disrespect.  That's just what teenage girls do, it's the response to everything:

"you two dueces..." - giggle
cute sheep - giggle
see a bear - giggle
"water walking Jesus..." - giggle
tent scene - giggle

I think the thing that shows the impact of the film is that there were actually scenes in which teenage girls sitting together DIDN'T giggle.  That's nearly miraculous.

The trick is just to look around and make sure you don't sit near them.  And if they start to sit down near you, just say "sorry, those seats are taken" even if its a few rows away.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Lola on January 24, 2006, 03:15:09 PM
I have heard nothing but positive feed back from family and friends on this movie.  But here is a site I use to post at many moons ago, check out some of the replies!   :)  Seems like everywhere you go, someone is talking about it.


http://www.mediadomain.com/cgi-bin/netforum/yandr_fan/a.cgi/3-89
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: exlogcabin on January 24, 2006, 04:22:56 PM
Hey Lola,

I read a lot of soap sites, too.  You would think this is the natural audience.  But even they expect fast paced action and lots of dialogue spelling things out for them.

It's too bad people can't appreciate the story and pacing for what it is.

Exlogcabin
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Lola on January 24, 2006, 04:30:40 PM
Hey!

Probably the reason alot of people hated movies like The English Patient and Out of Africa, which I loved.

If they were looking for Bad Boys II they didn't get it - well I guess in a way they did! lol

I thought it had a kind of a Legends of the Fall feel to it.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: killersmom on January 24, 2006, 04:33:50 PM
Hey!

Probably the reason alot of people hated movies like The English Patient and Out of Africa, which I loved.

If they were looking for Bad Boys II they didn't get it - well I guess in a way they did! lol

I thought it had a kind of a Legends of the Fall feel to it.

Thanks Lola and I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment :D
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Wayne SF on January 24, 2006, 08:26:18 PM
My mom in Jacksonville FL saw the movie this past weekend (opening weekend, there).  I didn't let her know (or any of my friends know about my little obsesstion here).  And with little coaching from me, she said it was the best drama-stype movie she has ever seen !!! Yeah Mom !! I ordered the book for her to read from Amazon.  Bet she has to see the movie a second time.  Whaddya Think?
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Pug on January 24, 2006, 08:27:54 PM
BBM Visit #7

BBM opened in a multiplex 10 miles away so audience much smaller than last week. Last week every evening show (1 per night except on week ends) was sold out.

Gay (I'm using my gaydar) guy and female friend making too many smart ass remarks and the first tent scene started.
I turned around and told them to shut the fuck up and his reply was "Is he serious?"
I told him that I didn't pay for him to be a part of my movie so shut up. And he did.
Audience on the whole not perfect-not the best but pretty good.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: lookingforluff on January 24, 2006, 09:02:39 PM
I turned around and told them to shut the fuck up and his reply was "Is he serious?"
I told him that I didn't pay for him to be a part of my movie so shut up. And he did.
Audience on the whole not perfect-not the best but pretty good.

bahahahaha. Pug, long time lurker here... just popping up with some <3 for your, er, outspokennness.

Good going!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Pug on January 24, 2006, 09:57:19 PM
Sometimes people refuse to let their soul feel the story  and that is sad.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Tony on January 24, 2006, 09:58:32 PM
Hey Lola,

I read a lot of soap sites, too.  You would think this is the natural audience.  But even they expect fast paced action and lots of dialogue spelling things out for them.

It's too bad people can't appreciate the story and pacing for what it is.

Exlogcabin
I agrree, for people that are used to see tons of actions, special effects, etc, then this movie would be "slow pace".  They need to start watching good quality films.  And about not much dialogue??  I think this is so wrong.  The movie is rich in great dialogues, great lines that mean so much.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: BillN on January 24, 2006, 10:10:01 PM
Hey Lola,

I read a lot of soap sites, too.  You would think this is the natural audience.  But even they expect fast paced action and lots of dialogue spelling things out for them.

It's too bad people can't appreciate the story and pacing for what it is.

Exlogcabin
I agrree, for people that are used to see tons of actions, special effects, etc, then this movie would be "slow pace".  They need to start watching good quality films.  And about not much dialogue??  I think this is so wrong.  The movie is rich in great dialogues, great lines that mean so much.

In addition to the spoken dialogue, there are many unspoken lines in the film that are very important and effective. The one most telling to me was when we see Jack watching Ennis ride off after the dozy embrace, he says nothing but tells us everything about how he feels.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: glacier76 on January 24, 2006, 10:27:00 PM
It should be noted that the soap thread was under the Young & the Restless thread. And Y&R sucks! Go, All My Children and As the World Turns! ;)
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: exlogcabin on January 24, 2006, 11:25:19 PM
Y and the R tends to have an older demographic.  Maybe this accounts for the negative reaction.

I posted about BBM on a GH site a few times.  (GH has a younger demo.)  Not as many responses as I would hope, but the few that I did get were all generally positive.  Either they really wanted to see the film or they had seen it and loved it.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: brokebackLJ on January 25, 2006, 01:04:59 AM
Saw it tonight with my roomie and her boyfriend.
Her boyfriend talked a lot throughout noting all the great cars, trucks and horses. Typical guy eh?
We kept telling him to shut up because we were so into...time #8 for me...
after we had this huge long discussion, she said how Heath was amazing and how eerily he played the role, like he got into the soul of this guy.
He thought it was good, but first thought Jack died because of what happened between the rance foreman's WIFE and him...I had to explain to him about what really happened, but also told him it's entirely up to him, but that Jack didn't have an affair with any wife.
She thought Lureen had something to do with the murder he thought Lureen set it up after we talked about it more.
It's great how it's become such a great conversation piece.

Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: graylockV on January 25, 2006, 02:04:25 AM
Hey!

Probably the reason a lot of people hated movies like The English Patient and Out of Africa, which I loved.

If they were looking for Bad Boys II they didn't get it - well I guess in a way they did! lol

I thought it had a kind of a Legends of the Fall feel to it.

Lola - you are totally correct.  People who are used to typical fast-paced noisy action flicks with lots of computer-generated special effects - basically, long-form video games - will probably go nuts trying to watch BBM.  BBM was expected to be an arthouse movie with appeal limited to particular strata of the general public.  (I am trying not to sound snobbish.)  But since it has become a cultural phenomenon it is drawing people who talk back to the screen, yell at people three rows back, chomp popcorn at all the wrong time, and so on.  Such people are not singling out BBM for abuse - they behave this way at all movies they attend.  This is why I go to late-afternoon matinees at theaters that are less likely to draw a noisy crowd.

When I was a kid I was taught not to talk during movies, at the public library, or in church.  The culture has changed and not for the better.  I know I sound like an old fogy but this lack of manners on the part of so many people is a major reason why others wait for the DVD to come out instead of going to see movies at the multiplex. 

We should not necessarily presume that boorish behavior is specifically arising from BBM's subject matter.  I have read that Ang Lee and Diana Ossana have both acknowledged that this movie is not for everyone.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: richardL on January 25, 2006, 02:19:03 AM
I'm in a real muddle now .. I have seen the film once only and want to see it again and at the cinema too... My first audience were just fine .. despite being in a slightly unlikely venue.
But now I'm scared, having read so much here, that I will have a bad crowd and I can't bare to have this spoilt for me in any shape or form.
Control freak huh ?
Rich
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: jack on January 25, 2006, 03:34:39 AM
I turned around and told them to shut the fuck up and his reply was "Is he serious?"
I told him that I didn't pay for him to be a part of my movie so shut up. And he did.
Audience on the whole not perfect-not the best but pretty good.

bahahahaha. Pug, long time lurker here... just popping up with some <3 for your, er, outspokennness.

Good going!

oooh, pug, i LOVE it when you talk rough  ;)

jack
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: desperadum on January 25, 2006, 03:52:45 AM
But now I'm scared, having read so much here, that I will have a bad crowd and I can't bare to have this spoilt for me in any shape or form.

Rich, I think audiences in a London cinema tend to be more civilized than over here. Sometimes in New York I have experienced some audience members shouting back at the screen (usually during thrillers, and this seems to be a largely cultural phenomenon)! Since you had a good experience in the one place, why don't you go back - and to a matinee, which tends to attract more "mature" audiences.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: richardL on January 25, 2006, 11:12:49 AM
dear desperadum ....

Yes, I think yr right about the audiences but that's the problem ... in the US I might not feel worried or uncomfortable about any outbursts ..( normal-ish).
But here it's a real no-no and your own and everyone else's embarrassment is palpable !
 >:(
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: MellorSJ on January 25, 2006, 07:37:20 PM
I just saw the movie for the second time.  Y'all are right.  It's worse the second time.  My eyes were blurry most all the time.

My first time was in Sydney, outdoors, in the rain, with a boisterous, very, mixed crowd (which, I have to add, annoyed me no end--here I am in one the gayest cities on the planet, and I watch this film with straight people?!).  They reacted appropriately in most places except a horrified laugh when Alma discovers our boys.  Perhaps 1200 people.

This time was Wednesday at 16:00 in Tucson, Arizona.  Theater just under half full, mostly retired (married) couples, groups of older women, and a few lone men.  Whether they were gay or not I couldn't tell.  (My gaydar is non-existent, a true handicap in more areas than just this.)  Maybe 150 people?  On entry I heard one woman say Mary had seen it and loved it; another added she'd read the story.

The crowd was mostly silent, especially during the last half.  One guy dropped his popcorn and you could hear every corn bounce it was so quiet.  During the Reunion scene, there were muffled gasps, and a few other places where appropriate.  All of Ennis' jokes went over well, but quiet respect was the order of the day.

I stayed through the frame-by-frame credits, as did most (but not all)  people.  Several got up as the rolling credits started and I joined them in an attempt to guage reaction.  Unfortunately, I picked a group who decided to talk about where to eat dinner :(  Then a couple of guys came out, an unnatural distance apart.  One asked the other what he thought.  I hope I did not hear "I think it sucked".  The questioner was silent (I think he disagreed!), and the answerer did not elaborate.

I then stalked two married couples.  They were discussing whether Lureen knew, why Jack just didn't go to Mexico, and the other questions that exercise us.  They seemed to have enjoyed it.  One comment struck me "It was a different time then," which of course is self-evidently true, but I found myself thinking, "Maybe.  Did you see Letterman last night?"  You know where I'm going with this...

In other news, I think it was indeed six bottles of beer while waiting for Jack.  There were three on the side table, and TWO on the lamp table (the lamp looks a lot like a bottle in that light), BUT Ennis took a bottle in the kitchen when he went to get his second beer, and he may have left others there :)

I did not see Heath's tat. I saw Mrs Twist with white coffee mugs both before and after Ennis went upstairs, but like I said, I was blurry by then.  Never mind, I'm going to see it again Friday with my best (US) friend and his girl.  We were hangin' last night and the subject came up about this site (actually), and whether to read the short story first.  I said "best 10, 611 words ever written."  My friend turned to her and said "Yup. Obsessed." :)

Well, at least you all understand.  From what you say, the third time is the very worst...  Wish me luck!

(Happy Oz Day to those of you still enjoying the summer.  Wish I was there.  And get well soon, OK?)





Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: kw on January 25, 2006, 08:12:04 PM
Brokeback Mountain producer James Schamus said they were asked by White House for a copy of the movie


We were asked for a print of the movie which we supplied to the White House. So maybe somebody there has seen the movie.

http://www.defamer.com/hollywood/brokeback-mountain/brokeback-producer-tells-all-150688.php
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Uclapeterg on January 25, 2006, 10:31:33 PM
Brokeback Mountain producer James Schamus said they were asked by White House for a copy of the movie


We were asked for a print of the movie which we supplied to the White House. So maybe somebody there has seen the movie.

http://www.defamer.com/hollywood/brokeback-mountain/brokeback-producer-tells-all-150688.php

Probably Laura Bush.  :-X
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: harry on January 26, 2006, 01:30:58 AM
i've seen the movie 4 times so far.
i'm in the "industry" so i saw a screening for the "business" ... the director of cinematography was
there after the fact answering questions ( i have some interesing info on that. )

anyways ... i saw the movie 3 times in a theater in LA - paid and regular audience. mostly silent..you could
hear a pin drop excpet when the audience cried at the end. two other reactions: when randy quaid first
spies on jack and ennis ..the audience gasped ..same when alma witnessed the kiss.
now the "industry" screening was very different. the audience was VERY pro brokeback. but the they laughed
a lot. at times that i found kinda inappropriate. they laughed at alma ... i personally found nothing funny there,
it was very sad.  all around they laughed more, but in the end the effect was the same. crying in the end
and applause. applause at the end of all 4 shows and silent exits ....
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: jack on January 26, 2006, 03:22:52 AM
Brokeback Mountain producer James Schamus said they were asked by White House for a copy of the movie


We were asked for a print of the movie which we supplied to the White House. So maybe somebody there has seen the movie.

http://www.defamer.com/hollywood/brokeback-mountain/brokeback-producer-tells-all-150688.php

Probably Laura Bush.  :-X

more likely rove, mehlmann and gannon/guckert >:(
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Hmmmm on January 26, 2006, 08:05:06 AM
Brokeback Mountain producer James Schamus said they were asked by White House for a copy of the movie


We were asked for a print of the movie which we supplied to the White House. So maybe somebody there has seen the movie.

http://www.defamer.com/hollywood/brokeback-mountain/brokeback-producer-tells-all-150688.php

"Lynne and I have a gay daughter, so it's an issue our family is very familiar with," Cheney told an audience that included his daughter. "With the respect to the question of relationships, my general view is freedom means freedom for everyone. ... People ought to be free to enter into any kind of relationship they want to. - Dick Cheney, Davenport Iowa 2004

Probably Laura Bush.  :-X

more likely rove, mehlmann and gannon/guckert >:(

Perhaps the Cheney's are planing to see BBM with their daugher, Mary Cheney.  ;)

Navigating politics aside, the Cheneys make no bones about their pride and support for their daughter.   I believe she is still the LGBT corporate relations manager at Coors.

"Lynne and I have a gay daughter, so it's an issue our family is very familiar with," Cheney told an audience that included his daughter. "With the respect to the question of relationships, my general view is freedom means freedom for everyone. ... People ought to be free to enter into any kind of relationship they want to. - Dick Cheney, Davenport Iowa 2004

Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: exlogcabin on January 26, 2006, 08:07:17 AM
Hey Harry,

Thanks for the report on the industry screening.

A bunch of us in LA are planning to go see the film together, probably the weekend of Feb. 4/5.  We'd love to have you join us!

Exlogcabin
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Sue in Baltimore on January 26, 2006, 10:45:31 AM
Argh...I emailed a bunch of friends encouraging them to go see the movie.  One guy, WHO, ALARMINGLY, RUNS MY SON'S CUB SCOUT DEN, wrote the following in response:

"More pro-homo trash from Hollywood."

I thought he was joking, but when I asked, he said he wasn't.  Damn.  This guy's in a band, seems smarter and more open than that.  I know I'm naive to be surprised, but so be it.  I'm guess I'm more Jack than Ennis in that way.

Of course I'm now, very gently, trying to engage him in a dialogue about why a movie with gay protagonists is pro-gay.  We'll see how that goes.  I may have to start a new den for my kid and his cub scout buddies. 

Scary note:  This particular guy actually has a 9yo son who's very sensitive and artistic and not athletic...sorry if I'm just succumbing to dumb stereotypes there, but it scares the crap out of me that someone with that attitude could have a gay kid.  Though of course I do know that's a daily reality in our world.  Heaven help us.  Maybe I can get that kid into MY den.  If I do, it'll be for Jack, you know, and Ennis.  Cornball, maybe, but true.

More evidence of the need for the BBM  story to be heard:  in my traditionally-liberal state, the Gov and his fellow Republicans are pushing hard for an amendment to our state constitution banning gay marriage.  It won't pass but is designed to embarrass Dems in an election year.  To follow Ang's lead with the bookends...argh.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: SamNasty on January 26, 2006, 11:03:09 AM
all the stories from Mom's and wives in here are just enlightening for me.  I really had no idea there was soo much love and support  for the movie from you guys.  Thanks!!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Tony on January 27, 2006, 12:47:32 AM
Brokeback Mountain producer James Schamus said they were asked by White House for a copy of the movie


We were asked for a print of the movie which we supplied to the White House. So maybe somebody there has seen the movie.

http://www.defamer.com/hollywood/brokeback-mountain/brokeback-producer-tells-all-150688.php

"Lynne and I have a gay daughter, so it's an issue our family is very familiar with," Cheney told an audience that included his daughter. "With the respect to the question of relationships, my general view is freedom means freedom for everyone. ... People ought to be free to enter into any kind of relationship they want to. - Dick Cheney, Davenport Iowa 2004

Probably Laura Bush.  :-X

more likely rove, mehlmann and gannon/guckert >:(

Perhaps the Cheney's are planing to see BBM with their daugher, Mary Cheney.  ;)

Navigating politics aside, the Cheneys make no bones about their pride and support for their daughter.   I believe she is still the LGBT corporate relations manager at Coors.

"Lynne and I have a gay daughter, so it's an issue our family is very familiar with," Cheney told an audience that included his daughter. "With the respect to the question of relationships, my general view is freedom means freedom for everyone. ... People ought to be free to enter into any kind of relationship they want to. - Dick Cheney, Davenport Iowa 2004


She left Coors over 4 years ago.  The person that holds her position now is a true hard worker guy and proud of who he is.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: mary on January 27, 2006, 12:57:35 AM
I went again tonight (I won't even say how many times this makes - lets just say I'm approaching double digits) with a casual acquaintance from work.  I was unsure about going with her since I don't know her very well  She LOVED it.  Spent 20 minutes outside talking about it afterward.  I think I've found a new friend.  How can I not like her? She loved BBM.  :)

The audience tonight appeared to be a mix of straight couples and groups of women.  One person behind me was sobbing, luckily they were not alone so had someone to comfort them

I did notice that the film seems to be getting tired - little bits of marks and crackles that were not there the first time I saw it in this theater.  It occurred to me that they were probably not expecting the film to have to last a month or more.  SO many films come and go in 2 weeks
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: gnash on January 27, 2006, 05:59:50 AM
posted this on the humor thread, but it works here too. i'm getting ribbed for my "obsession" with the movie.. a friend emailed his take on the movie as it concerns me and other brokaholics:

"Bareback Mountain

An unflinching look at the love between two men, as poignant and shocking today as it was the day before yesterday."

----

i'm discovering new people who have seen the movie. most notable is a girl aged 21 who has three friends who are as brokenbacked as we are. it's interesting as they're younger, and straight, but they still fell in love with the film. i talked to brittany about it and we got teary eyed. she was at work and had to fan her tears away with her hands and a smile. others who hadn't seen the movie witnessed our exchange and teased us endlessly, but ended up telling us to SHUT UP! because they now wanted to see the movie and didn't want to know what happened. we had to talk in CODE around them, it was priceless.

wow about the worn out film copies. that's awesome and awful at the same time. it's sure to hold a high ranking as one of the greatest films of the 21st century. i can't think of a single movie that's moved me like this, "but i'm gay" and have suffered from a broken heart before.  however, it doesn't seem to make a difference. brittany is young and fresh, but is smitten nonetheless.

it was interesting for me to see the movie in sherman oaks the other day -- there were cries of OY VEY from elderly women when we saw joe with the binoculars and when alma witnessed "the kiss." not much laughter when alma witnessed the kiss,, however there was much sighing and a few cries of "oh my god" as well. i love jewish women, they're so passionate and honest. one woman cried OY VEY again at the bashing scene, and at the end there was light applause, something i haven't heard much of since the first week it opened here in LA. when i saw it at the arclight that week, it was a predominately gay audience and when ang lee's name flashed on the screen there was a roar of applause and almost everybody stood and clapped for a long while.

also in sherman oaks, the thanksgiving scene was WELL recieved. when jack told the ignorant SOB to sit down, people yelled RIGHT ON and cheered wildly. when lureen smirked and LD's face went stone cold, it was countered with impulsive, lasting giggles.

however, it was the only viewing where i saw people leave. a couple left during the first tent scene, and a woman stood to leave but her husband pulled her down. during the second tent scene she would not have any of it and stomped off. her husband trailed behind her, and when they got to the bottom of the stairs and had to turn the corner to exit the theatre, she turned and hissed "DISGUSTING!", to which some of the audience booed her.

all this during the second tent scene! i'm glad i'd seen it 7 times prior, or i'd have been upset at the distraction.

also, there was a single man sitting in my same row (well, i sat myself near him, LOL), a handsome cowboy type -- really, he had the tight jeans and a western style shirt. he left after alma found out about jack and ennis. i don't think he was put off by the homosexuality, but something made him leave. i wondered the rest of the movie about that guy, and thought maybe he was in a similar situation himself, and found the movie too much to bear as it may have mirrored his life too closely.

the movie is in a mall, and there were a few groups of women with shopping bags. it's nice to know they stopped to shop and thought to go see ang's movie together. it's so interesting to see the effect this movie has on america... you know how they made the documentaries about the trekkies and the ringers (lord of the ring fans)? i can't wait to see the brokeback documentaries. hopefully somebody is going to tackle that project in hollywood.

so yeah... brokeback mountain is climbing the charts. i'm also very interested to hear about how it plays in japan -- they're big into american culture and i can't wait to see rabid asian fans wearing cowboy hats and flashing victory signs for the cameras. :D

maybe they'll invent a brokeback roll for the sushi bars, haha.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: gnash on January 27, 2006, 06:32:26 AM
Argh...I emailed a bunch of friends encouraging them to go see the movie.  One guy, WHO, ALARMINGLY, RUNS MY SON'S CUB SCOUT DEN, wrote the following in response:

"More pro-homo trash from Hollywood."

I thought he was joking, but when I asked, he said he wasn't.  Damn.  This guy's in a band, seems smarter and more open than that.  I know I'm naive to be surprised, but so be it.  I'm guess I'm more Jack than Ennis in that way.

Of course I'm now, very gently, trying to engage him in a dialogue about why a movie with gay protagonists is pro-gay.  We'll see how that goes.  I may have to start a new den for my kid and his cub scout buddies. 

Scary note:  This particular guy actually has a 9yo son who's very sensitive and artistic and not athletic...sorry if I'm just succumbing to dumb stereotypes there, but it scares the crap out of me that someone with that attitude could have a gay kid.  Though of course I do know that's a daily reality in our world.  Heaven help us.  Maybe I can get that kid into MY den.  If I do, it'll be for Jack, you know, and Ennis.  Cornball, maybe, but true.

More evidence of the need for the BBM  story to be heard:  in my traditionally-liberal state, the Gov and his fellow Republicans are pushing hard for an amendment to our state constitution banning gay marriage.  It won't pass but is designed to embarrass Dems in an election year.  To follow Ang's lead with the bookends...argh.

sue --

OMG. this breaks my heart. my dad was the same way, in that he wasn't afraid to denounce gays and make fun of them openly and often, both seriously and jokingly. he learned to silence himself when i came out to him at age 15 or so... my mother i told first, at 13, but my dad's suspicions were confirmed when he caught me in bed with a guy....

i saw a bumpersticker on the back of a truck in the 80's when the big gay scout debate was in the news. inside the cab was the adult driver and two kids -- it was very much like ennis and his big brother and father, now that i think of it. there was a gun rack in the window. the bumpersticker read something like "gay scouts? no FAGS in my pup tent."

it was so openly homophobic, and this wasn't a homemade sticker -- it was a machine printed full color affair proudly displayed. i shuddered to think of the environment those boys were raised. and this was in the suburban SF bay area of california -- lots of gays, and apparently host to a fair number of KKK and their affliates.

i really hope that your email buddy comes to his senses and realizes there's a fine line between opinion and hate. i don't want to stir the pot but you really should question your son's placement in his den. i was a cub scout and while i wasn't openly gay, i wasn't the only gay scout in my troop. perhaps this guy isn't homophobic but only misinformed. many people say what the see on websites or hear on the news, but it's alarming to hear he's in charge of a group of children, your child included. my mom was a den mother and i was a cub and a scout for years. luckily, none of my scout leaders vocalized their homophobia, tho i suspect it existed. my dad wasn't involved with the troop, but did come to some camp outs with us.

this isn't really the right thread for my comment, but i had to say something about your post. my best wishes to you and my high regards in addressing this issue here, and with the man in question. best of luck to you, sue.

ps: i was artistic and not athletic, so your insights into this boy may not be unfounded. he could feel very tortured with this man. while i never contemplated suicide, i was destructive in other ways and my stress manifested itself in illness. to be honest, i would say that most every gay kid grows up in this kind of "scary" environment, i hear similar stories and have lost 2 young gay friends to suicide, and countless other to aids (destructive behaviour?). yes, the gay suicide rate is high, it's serious stuff, and again i praise your efforts to say or do something about it.

the children should not be ignored. as much as america is progressive, we are very far behind in many other ways, sadly enough.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie: Not crying
Post by: SecretlySmiling on January 27, 2006, 07:46:18 AM
As in all my other viewings, there was silence for the last 30 minutes or so. And as in the other viewings, no one I could see or hear cried. Audiences cry at the cheapest, most manipulative crap. How could they not cry here?

That's actually "shock" - not the "OMG" reaction, but the physical reaction where the extraneous peripheral body systems are shut down so that the body as a whole can survive. They are so profoundly moved that they literally cannot react.

Others have mentioned that they did not cry in the theater but only later, when they were in their cars or at home. This is typical of shock, where the reactions (pain, gasping, crying, falling apart) are delayed until they no longer pose a threat to immediate survival.

Music performers are familiar with this. Light applause is awful, heavy applause is very nice, but if nobody does anything for a few moments once you're finished, and then they applaud, that is the best, because then you know that you have affected their very souls. The longer the interval, the more profound the effect, becaue it has taken that long to recover.

You have to be stronger and not so profoundly moved to make the breakthrough to crying right in the theater.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie: Not crying
Post by: WLAGuy on January 27, 2006, 10:13:44 AM
That's actually "shock" - not the "OMG" reaction, but the physical reaction where the extraneous peripheral body systems are shut down so that the body as a whole can survive. They are so profoundly moved that they literally cannot react.

Others have mentioned that they did not cry in the theater but only later, when they were in their cars or at home. This is typical of shock, where the reactions (pain, gasping, crying, falling apart) are delayed until they no longer pose a threat to immediate survival.

Music performers are familiar with this. Light applause is awful, heavy applause is very nice, but if nobody does anything for a few moments once you're finished, and then they applaud, that is the best, because then you know that you have affected their very souls. The longer the interval, the more profound the effect, becaue it has taken that long to recover.

You have to be stronger and not so profoundly moved to make the breakthrough to crying right in the theater.

That's an excellent take on that phenomenon, SecretlySmiling.  Having had that happen to me twice now (I'm waaaay behind most others on this board thanks to studying for the blasted bar exam), I'm curious as to how I'll react when I'm finally able to watch it at home.  I have a feeling it's going to be pretty damp in my apartment starting with the second tent scene. 
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: BrokeBackJim on January 27, 2006, 10:19:54 AM
I, lke many of you NEVER cry at movies.  I've seen BBM 5 times and bawl like a baby.  I am a huge fan of extreme cinema and rarely, if ever, watch drama-type "love stpries" but BBM just crushed me. 

WLAguy...good luck on the Bar exam!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: vertimus on January 27, 2006, 10:46:20 AM
I'm happy to report that my mother--who is 80--my father is dead--wanted to see it. I took her last week, and she enjoyed it; she certainly wasn't shocked. Nor was she as moved as I have been. I recommended it to my aunt, who is a Francsican nun, and she said she was already thinking of seeing it, and knows who among the nuns she can and can't bring to see it, due to their attitudes.

However, my school and college friends, with the exception of a lesbian friend, are acting as if it's a cliche for me to come forward and speak out positively about the film, as if I would on principal, which is certainly not true; most 'gay' films actually turn me off, though I like the newer ones I've seen on the cable channel Here.

One of my school friends even accused me of trying to persuade his wife, also a friend, to go see it "against her will," which I certainly didn't. But he himself, he said, "wouldn't spend a dime supporting that junk." He sees it as willfully-intended social propoganda, and nothing more.  I'm disappointed in him but I accept his attitude.

But clearly the film is reaching a very broad, very diverse audience.  For that I'm thankful.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: kaboyz on January 27, 2006, 11:27:53 AM
Well, I have to say...I work with pretty intelligent open minded literary individuals.  I passed the short story on to three of my coworkers who hadn't seen the movie yet, all mid 20's, two straight woman and one straight male.  One of the woman called me crying the minute she finished reading the short story.  Then the next day when I saw my other two coworkers they couldn't stop talking about it.  Just from us talking about it at work, 3 of my other coworkers, all straight woman...were inspired to go and see the movie.  I can't wait until after they all have seen it so we can talk about it.  They are going to absolutely love it and now I can bring my obsession into work without feeling like a crazy lunatic. 
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: BrokeBackJim on January 27, 2006, 11:36:16 AM
Hi Kaboyz!  Similar reactions here at my work.  I work in IT and I am the only openly gay male here.  Several straight coworkers saw it (of course because their girlfriends dargged them...HAHAHA) all have reported that they thought is was real moving and deserving of all the praise.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: harry on January 27, 2006, 12:03:01 PM
Hey Harry,

Thanks for the report on the industry screening.

A bunch of us in LA are planning to go see the film together, probably the weekend of Feb. 4/5.  We'd love to have you join us!

Exlogcabin

hey exlogcabin:) ... would love to join
also, there's another screening tonight with heath and michelle answering questions after the show !
i've been waiting for this all week
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: sherryfair on January 27, 2006, 07:28:55 PM
Well, this is not a friend or family member of mine (I wish!) but here is Tony Kushner's reaction to the success of "Brokeback Mountain." He co-wrote the script for "Munich," which is doing so poorly, but he's so warm & generous, which I should have known he would be:

From an AP story: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/arts/AP-Oscar-Nominations.html

''I think American culture is closely allied with American political progress, and a film like `Brokeback' will absolutely kick down barriers and open up people's hearts and minds,'' said playwright Tony Kushner (''Angels in America''), a potential screenplay nominee for co-writing ''Munich.''

''I think a lot of people who are afraid of gay relationships will go and see it, and they see a relationship that whether you're gay or straight is immensely recognizable. It's great for us, and I'm thrilled.''
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: vertimus on January 27, 2006, 07:36:15 PM
About the Applause:

I've seen it now 4 times here in NYC, and every time, while people have sat rigid and spellbound throughout, there has been no applause whatsoever at any viewing. Which has surprised me, because I certainly think it deserves a standing ovation.

NYC being what it is, I would expect people to feel free to express themselves. They certainly feel free to express everything else!

How has it been in your neck of the woods?
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Hmmmm on January 27, 2006, 07:43:34 PM
About the Applause:

I've seen it now 4 times here in NYC, and every time, while people have sat rigid and spellbound throughout, there has been no applause whatsoever at any viewing. Which has surprised me, because I certainly think it deserves a standing ovation.

NYC being what it is, I would expect people to feel free to express themselves. They certainly feel free to express everything else!

How has it been in your neck of the woods?

I personally was a bit stunned and had to process the movie for a while afterward.  I was silent till we got to the car.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: vertimus on January 27, 2006, 07:49:49 PM
Hmmmm, I was emotionally stunned too but still felt like applauding. I should have led the applauyse, or at least aplauded because I felt it warranted. Here it is, a month later, and I'm still stunned. Absolutely.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: helen on January 27, 2006, 11:56:21 PM
On my first viewing, the theatre seemed to be full of very accepting people but there were many who were so clearly nervous and just plain new to homosexuality. During the love scenes there was a bit of laughter. I was kind of shocked by this. I didn't expect this kind of reaction but then I took a minute to process it and realized that people often laugh out of nervousness. Fine.

At the end of the movie, a few people clapped, some cheered, but overall, people just walked away silently. I did see many people with teary eyes but I think they were mostly the gay audience.

Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: harry on January 28, 2006, 01:08:15 AM
heath and michelle were supposed to appear for a q and a after a screening of brokeback tonight.
they had to cancel due to an illness of their kid.
this was another "industry" screening mostly for sag people but other quilds too. (i'm another guild).
again ..the same weird thing .. the non-industry venues (i've seen it 3 times in that setting) were very
different from the two "industry" ones.  tonight people seemed so anxious to be "brokeback supporters",
they'd laugh at every little thing and again it really offended me when some laughed at alma when she
saw the guys kissing. at times it was like people were watching a comedy !!!  people very very vocal in their
responses all around. the "stud duck" turkey carving scene got an applause :)  during the 4 punch ending
i looked behind and saw the audience in tears. the movie got a long applause and the main actors also when
their credits rolled up.   people were obviously dissappointed that the actors couldn't show up, but there will
be a "follow up" session for the people in the theater with heath and michelle.
dunno what kinda witches potion this movie is made of, but it got me again .... i'm like ennis in many ways ..
or maybe i'm like the pavlov's dog ..i get all verklempt when i hear those chords of soundtrack ....


i have some other interesting ( at least i think so ) info on the making of the movie..but don't know where to write it ... ??
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: killersmom on January 28, 2006, 03:43:46 AM
i have some other interesting ( at least i think so ) info on the making of the movie..but don't know where to write it ... ??

Harry Welcome and thanks for coming aboard  and posting with us.  :)
As to where to post your interesting information try going here to this link

http://davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=299.0

or to the meet and greet board where you may start a new thread

http://davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=39.0

You have a lot of good things to say and already have, so keep it up.
See you around and welcome to the big top, there's act playing in all three rings ;)

killersmom
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Sue in Baltimore on January 28, 2006, 04:20:04 AM
Gnash, thanks for your thoughts about my situation with my angry-white-straight-narrow-male friend's reaction to the idea of the movie (since of course he refuses to see it).  I do appreciate them.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: gnash on January 28, 2006, 08:00:51 AM
Well, I have to say...I work with pretty intelligent open minded literary individuals.  I passed the short story on to three of my coworkers who hadn't seen the movie yet, all mid 20's, two straight woman and one straight male.  One of the woman called me crying the minute she finished reading the short story.  Then the next day when I saw my other two coworkers they couldn't stop talking about it.  Just from us talking about it at work, 3 of my other coworkers, all straight woman...were inspired to go and see the movie.  I can't wait until after they all have seen it so we can talk about it.  They are going to absolutely love it and now I can bring my obsession into work without feeling like a crazy lunatic. 

that's so great!! word of mouth is really strong with BBM -- people seem to want/need to talk about it. i wonder how many closet lunatics are already among you at work. i bet some will be lured out of their silence to join in conversation. have fun!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: gnash on January 28, 2006, 08:16:18 AM
Gnash, thanks for your thoughts about my situation with my angry-white-straight-narrow-male friend's reaction to the idea of the movie (since of course he refuses to see it).  I do appreciate them.

you're welcome, and good luck with the children. ya know, it's folks like him that will furtively watch the dvd. curiousity will get the better of them. it's kinda like the critics of pornography who "study" the stuff just so they can say how filthy it is... his blatant denouncement and accusations via email seem fishy to me, but maybe he's just mean-spirited.  :-\
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: dudnkink on January 28, 2006, 11:16:10 AM
I must vent this  >:( And let me know your thoughts, as I really have no support when it comes to this movie.......I was so optimistic about my little sister seeing the movie, (the only one in my family who even comes close to accepting me as a lesbian).  She and my very homophobic, bigoted, christian mother watched Oprah yesterday with the cast of BBM.  So, sister Lisa went to see the movie with her boyfriend, whom some have inquired whether he himself is gay.  I was dying to know what she thought of the movie.  Well, she said it was slow, she was getting bored, and she couldn't sympathize with Ennis and what he did to his family.  I told her, that's the tragic part; NOBODY wins.  She was very shocked by the first tent scene and how "bold" that was to put that in the film.  So, now I'm quite sad about this.  I am very protective of this film and feels it represents the terrible conflict I've had in my life as well.  I know Oprah has convinced alot of ppl to go see this groundbreaking film, but I also think that it just won't change even the most unsympathetic minds.  I also truly believe to appreciate this film, you need to have a certain amount of intelligence to see all the layers, and nuances.  But you also have to be willing to open your mind to take it all in. 
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Kevin on January 28, 2006, 11:54:25 AM
I must vent this  >:( And let me know your thoughts, as I really have no support when it comes to this movie.......I was so optimistic about my little sister seeing the movie, (the only one in my family who even comes close to accepting me as a lesbian).  She and my very homophobic, bigoted, christian mother watched Oprah yesterday with the cast of BBM.  So, sister Lisa went to see the movie with her boyfriend, whom some have inquired whether he himself is gay.  I was dying to know what she thought of the movie.  Well, she said it was slow, she was getting bored, and she couldn't sympathize with Ennis and what he did to his family.  I told her, that's the tragic part; NOBODY wins.  She was very shocked by the first tent scene and how "bold" that was to put that in the film.  So, now I'm quite sad about this.  I am very protective of this film and feels it represents the terrible conflict I've had in my life as well.  I know Oprah has convinced alot of ppl to go see this groundbreaking film, but I also think that it just won't change even the most unsympathetic minds.  I also truly believe to appreciate this film, you need to have a certain amount of intelligence to see all the layers, and nuances.  But you also have to be willing to open your mind to take it all in. 

Sorry to hear that Dudnkink.  Your sister needs to understand that Jack and Ennis didn't do that to their families, society did.  It's like, fine, you don't like what happens when gay people are forced to marry in heterosexual relationships?  Let them be with who they want to be and then everyone's happy and no one gets hurt.

I'm from a unique family with a mom like yours.  But I also have a dad like Ennis if you know what I mean.  He met a man 25 years ago, moved away, and they've been happy ever since.  I worked on my mom for years and she finally came around a few years ago.  She no longer goes to church and is now a frothy-at-the-mouth liberal who has seen BBM with her friend.  This is the same person who tried to get me into psychotherapy when I came out (yeah right).  No one can ignore the truth forever...not my mom and not your mom.

A suggestion is that you tell her that she is risking her relationship with one of her own children.  Tell her that you aren't asking her to change her beliefs but only asking for an honest and open conversation.  If she's one of those "the bible says it's wrong" people, ask her to justify the following bible verses.  And I'm not kidding...

http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/~susan/joke/laura.htm
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Tony on January 28, 2006, 01:31:09 PM
all the stories from Mom's and wives in here are just enlightening for me.  I really had no idea there was soo much love and support  for the movie from you guys.  Thanks!!
thanks for the Madonna's "Sorry" single update.
I can't wait for the mixes!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Tony on January 28, 2006, 01:34:40 PM
I went again tonight (I won't even say how many times this makes - lets just say I'm approaching double digits) with a casual acquaintance from work.  I was unsure about going with her since I don't know her very well  She LOVED it.  Spent 20 minutes outside talking about it afterward.  I think I've found a new friend.  How can I not like her? She loved BBM.  :)
Good for you!  It's great to have close friends that share some views.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: trinket on January 28, 2006, 01:49:25 PM
FIRST I would like to apologize that I don't know how to properly do the quote thing in the yellow box, sorry, if anyone wants to take pity on this "virgin" and email me some instructions I would appreciate it.
Unless you don't mind I do it like I have it below.

From dudnkink <<you have to be willing to open your mind to take it all in>>

Certainly it can't be about having an "open mind!"  I have been accused of not having one of those!  Seriously.
I saw BBM a week ago and could not say I LOVED it or that it was "good."  But I was so haunted by it and have thought of almost nothing else all week.
Ok, the occasional laundry, meals, homework stuff for the kids..but you know..nothing important.
Can you "hear" he sarcasm??  hey, I can't help it they feel they need to have 3 meals a day!
It's nothing but a BAD HABIT we get them into when they're born.
Anyway, I am getting freaked out by people who are freaked out that i even went to SEE BBM
These friends are probably much like how you are describing your mom dudnkink.
Some people might describe me that way
I thought I went in with an open mind, I tried.  Now I wonder.
I think I may have been a bit tense through the showing and I wonder how much DIDN'T let it affect me!
 I couldn't understand MUCH of the dialog and that was very disappointing!
I have learned more from this board and Dave's site than anything else.
I have learned that i MUST go and see it AGAIN (and again...and again..???) and GET some of what I missed.
I don't just mean the dialog, I mean the layers and layers of meaning, the symbolic things.
Much i will NOW understand because of this site.

Bless ya!  Trinket
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: trinket on January 28, 2006, 01:52:08 PM
OH MY GOSH OH MY GOSH OH MY GOSH....I NOW HAVE MY FEET WET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I AM THRILLED AND HONORED AND JUST SO GRATEFUL.
I want to thank Dave and Jack and Carol......and everyone who made this possible!!!
ok, enough already...I'll save it for when Jake takes me to the awards!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: BillN on January 28, 2006, 02:37:05 PM
OH MY GOSH OH MY GOSH OH MY GOSH....I NOW HAVE MY FEET WET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I AM THRILLED AND HONORED AND JUST SO GRATEFUL.
I want to thank Dave and Jack and Carol......and everyone who made this possible!!!
ok, enough already...I'll save it for when Jake takes me to the awards!

Trinket, there is a very long line of folks waiting to go to the awards with Jake(and Heath)...if it hasn't been said already, welcome to the home of the brokeaholics, you are now in good company.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Dahamu on January 28, 2006, 02:44:24 PM
Hey first time posting on these boards. The names david and im 19y/o's!

I guess I will post my expierences I've seen it 3 times in threaters twice in cali, once with my mom and sister and once in utah(salt lake)/

The first time I went with my friend in southern cali, I forget the city name because he is still kind of in the closet and he didn't want to see it in pasadena, the city were from because he was afraid someone he knows would see him, sad I know. So we drive to this city, kind of upper-class which is about 30 mintues away. I admit I was kinda of nervous buying the ticket I don't know why, it was mix of excitement also I guess. Well we get to the ticket booth  and there some other teenagers trying to decide what they want to see. 3 boys and 2 girls. One of the girls say they should see brokeback but one of the guys said "that's a gay movie." Eh. So we buy the tickets and when I walk in im surpriserd how full the threather is. Next thing you know I notice all the heterosexuals couples ranging from middle age to older. There is also alot of eldery people to. We go toward the back and seat down, a hetero couple sits next to us and for some reason this made me umcomfortable see I heard about the sex scenes I felt it would be awakrd sitting next to them so I head to the back. There was silent during the sex scenes, I see a few straight couples pull each other closer, people just gapsed when alma caught them kissing. Silence during the movie. Walking out holding in my tears I see alot of people were crying and look shocked. It was amazing.

The second time I saw it I was visiting my mom with my sister and we decided to see a movie, my sister recommened brokeback since I was talking about it non-stop. My sister is 32 and is completely cool with me. My mom...she's another story. She knows im gay, which im sure she always knew. She cried for a week when she found out my twin sister was gay. We never talked about it, and the first time I even admitted it infront of her was when I was 19 and im 19 now. So I didn't know what her reaction would be but she agreed to see it even saying she heard it got great reviews. I wondered if she knew what the content was, she said to I think, but I wasn't sure.
So we head to a small threather in pasadena and a line is wrapped around the threather. I honestly didn't think it was for brokeback mountain because the whole line consisted of the eldery and even more straight couples. So yea, it was for brokeback, we go in after eating there were no more seats! we had to sit in the second from the front row. It sucked. So yea the auidence had the same reactions as before, I couldnt bring myself to look at my mom reactions. After the movie my mom walked blankly avoiding eye cotanct with me in my sister. I swear she was crying but im not sure. All she said after was she glad she saw it. Hmmm. It was a expierence I won't forget.

The third time was in salt lake city. Im currently here for school in a program called job corps. Well me, my gay friend, and his brother and his girlfriend and 2 other straight guys came along. We tried to convince the guys to see brokeback but they wanted to see underworld lol. So me my gay friend and the girlfriend saw brokeback. I didn't no want to suspect since I knew it was banned here in utah! It was actually the threather we planned on going to.
Again to my suprise the threather was packed, straight couples and way more eldery people this time. My gay friend fell in love with the movie, and the girlfriend really liked it. Most of the audidence watched the credits teary eyed. It really affected the auidence I could tell.

Now I plan on seeing it again with a few friends in salt lake. I'll let you guys know how it goes.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Timothy on January 28, 2006, 03:50:09 PM
Quote
About the Applause:

I've seen it now 4 times here in NYC, and every time, while people have sat rigid and spellbound throughout, there has been no applause whatsoever at any viewing. Which has surprised me, because I certainly think it deserves a standing ovation.


Ovations and applause seem to me to be for times when you are happy and pleased.  BBM doesn't leave you happy.  The experience is deeply moving and emotional but not joyous.

The response I've seen most is silence - not normal after-movie chatting, but an absolute silence.  It's almost reverential.

I think it may be hard for some of us to be objective about this movie.  We're personally offended if others don't find it as important, meaningful, and perfect as we do and so we become a bit annoyed when the response isn't the one we expect.  We don't want inappropriate laughter.  We are upset that Oprah didn't scream "you must must must go see it".  And just let someone say "it was OK" and we're ready to lecture them for 15 minutes on the difference between OK and amazing.  And how dare they not applaud.

But people respond in their own way and we shouldn't underestimate them.  My roommate's response way "yeah, I liked it" and I (for the sake of peace in the home) was going to let it be.  But then he saw it again before I did and has watched the Leno and Oprah appearance.  He's just not going to rave insanely about box office and how it's doing in Taiwan, like I am.

So if someone doesn't applaud, maybe they are still processing it.  Or will wake up tomorrow obsessed.  Or will never react other than to tell a friend "I liked it, go see it".  Their experience with this movie is just that: theirs. 

Just because they didn't cheer doesn't mean that they won't go home and call their cousin whom they've been avoiding because he's, well, "that way" or that they won't refuse to sign some vile "protect good heterosexuals from the evil gays" petition.

And maybe BBM won't move them at all.  But hey, we can console ourselves that the box office went up by $10 because their jaded un-applauding butt was in the seat.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Tony on January 28, 2006, 06:16:34 PM
Hey first time posting on these boards. The names david and im 19y/o's!

After the movie my mom walked blankly avoiding eye cotanct with me in my sister. I swear she was crying but im not sure. All she said after was she glad she saw it. Hmmm. It was a expierence I won't forget.

WELCOME!
Your mom's reactions made me cry... :'(   You are SOOOO lucky to take your mom.  To hear "I am glad I saw it" from a Mother or Father is PRICELESS.
I called my mom (overseas) last week.  She has no idea about this movie yet.  I will make sure she goes.  I wish I was able to seat next to hear, hold her hand and hug her after the movie is over.  I know she will be crying so much.  I told her to take one of her closest friends.  One of her sons is living the "Ennis life".  He's my age, he lived the gay life for a while, and out of the blue he got married with a woman!  He doesn't have kids yet.  I hope my mom takes her friend, so she can understand the difficult situation her son is living right now.

Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: BillN on January 28, 2006, 08:29:18 PM
This links you to an article in todays San Francisco Chronicle about how well BBM is being received in one of the suburbs, great news

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/01/28/BAGMFGUAEP1.DTL
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: BillN on January 28, 2006, 08:39:15 PM
Quote
About the Applause:

I've seen it now 4 times here in NYC, and every time, while people have sat rigid and spellbound throughout, there has been no applause whatsoever at any viewing. Which has surprised me, because I certainly think it deserves a standing ovation.


Ovations and applause seem to me to be for times when you are happy and pleased.  BBM doesn't leave you happy.  The experience is deeply moving and emotional but not joyous.

The response I've seen most is silence - not normal after-movie chatting, but an absolute silence.  It's almost reverential.

So if someone doesn't applaud, maybe they are still processing it.  Or will wake up tomorrow obsessed.  Or will never react other than to tell a friend "I liked it, go see it".  Their experience with this movie is just that: theirs. 


Timothy, agree that there will be a variety of reactions and we can't expect everyone to become brokeaholics. I've seen it three times and each time if was very quiet at the end, I like your description of reverential. The first time I saw it in San Francisco with two gay friends, both said the liked it but weren't enthusiastic. I wanted to say how can you not be really excited, but kept quiet because anything I might say wouldn't change their opinions.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Pug on January 28, 2006, 08:50:34 PM
This evening I volunteered at The 19th Street Theatre, the first theater in my area to screen BBM. It is a nonprofit "art house cinema." Now there are 4 other theaters showing it within 10-12 miles. I worked the concession stand and got to see BBM for the 8th time but this time free (plus a free popcorn and soda!). I did miss the first 5 minutes of it (concession stand closes when trailers start). Good audience except for one lady whose reactions were a little too loud (Don't you hate it during a very tender scene someone finds humor in something when your heart is so heavy?). One old gentlemen walked out at the last post office scene. Apparently he saw enough but just missed the shattering post card. During the credit roll, one very older lady in the row behind me commented that she found it a turn off to watch "those scenes." Odd reaction in that I have seen many seniors be very respectful about the film.

Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: trinket on January 28, 2006, 09:21:13 PM
WELCOME to you Dahamu!
I haven't been on the boards very long, just joined this past week!
You will REALLY enjoy this group!
I SO enjoyed reading your accounts of when you viewed BBM!!
Very intersting stufff.
Thanks so so much for sharing that, wow!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Mimo on January 29, 2006, 05:54:12 AM
Hey, wanted to give you some feedback from Australian audiences.

The first time I saw it was with friends and we sat in the first row and was completely oblivious to any reaction except for the deafening silence which enveloped the theatre.

However I went again by myself yesterday and sat up near the back to get a different perspective - this was more illuminating...

Most of the audience were definitely straight, complete age spectrum, mostly couples and family groups.
After the lights went down 3 latecomers arrived and as they stumbled up the aisle in darkness I said there were seats free next to me, as they passed one of the girls said "oops, sorry I almost sat on you, but you'd probably like that". My response - "I don't think so", her quick rebuttal was "Oh, it's like that is it".

Well, they were rather large and sat down with a full supply of food and began very noisily eating and I thought damn - my first time to watch it alone and the whole experience is going to be ruined by these people!

However as the movie progressed I realised I had an amazing Barometer sitting next to me.
The peanut munching slowed at the first tent scene then stopped.
By the reunion after 4 years it became "that's disgusting!" then as the story unfolded absolute silence.
Applause followed the Thanksgiving dinner scene (heard the man sitting behind me say to his wife "I have to bring dad to see this") and the only walkout was by a straight couple (who had to walk past the entire audience to reach the exit) when the deceased postcard was received (they waited that long before they couldn't stand it anymore?).

End of the film - absolute silence and most people rushed out VERY quickly.
It appeared to me I was the only one blubbing for 75% of the film, sobbing at the end and the only person to wait till the end of the credits.

The best thing however was the expectant, excited looks on the faces of the long que waiting to see the next session as I left - again mostly straight (hope I'm not being presumptuous).

No box office figures from here yet as it was the first weekend. Will keep you posted!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Tim on January 29, 2006, 06:08:35 AM
Had my third viewing of BBM on Saturday. (This was the first time alone.) Three fourths full theater. Surpringsly, most were men/women couples and more over 50 than I would have guessed.  As I type this I am listening to "Wings" from the soundtrack of BBM. Everytime I hear the music I find myself being drawn into the movie no matter what I am doing. I have never let a movie influence my thoughts and daily routine as much as this movie has done. After leaving the movie and getting into my car on a rainy Saturday evening in January I found myself crying uncontrollable. As I listen to the strum of the guitar on the soundtrack and type this, the tears are welling up in my eyes. The pain, the loneliness, the sadness which Ennis felt is so real to me at this very moment.  Why must the power of love hurt so much?
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Duces Wild on January 29, 2006, 06:26:04 AM
I had already made up my mind to love this movie before I saw it.  I had seen a 'making of program...' and interviews with Jake, Heath, Ang etc. and felt that it was something I had to experience.

I went by myself (the second time alone also) and had very different experiences each time with audience reaction.  The first one was stunned silence on many occasions whereas the second time alot more of the humour was reacted to by the audience and myself.   Because I was ready for the 1st tent scene the second time it didn't shock me nearly as much but around me it was deadly silent.

One thing I found strange was the laughter at the scene where Ennis walks in front of the truck and then has the fight.  I don't find that amusing however, maybe it was a relief to many because there was a lot of laughter all around me.  Maybe that's why Ang has put it in the movie just there for some light relief? because I find that particular scene 'out of place'.

I've so far only told my husband and one work colleague that I've seen this movie.

DW


Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Cowboy Dave on January 29, 2006, 06:53:25 AM
Quote
I've seen it now 4 times here in NYC, and every time, while people have sat rigid and spellbound throughout, there has been no applause whatsoever at any viewing. Which has surprised me, because I certainly think it deserves a standing ovation.
 

After Ennis does his final "Jack, I swear." and the Santoalalla score crescendos into those parallel tenths to role the credits, I
*always* feel like a truck ran over me. I can't even lift my arms, much less put two hands together ... As for standing, not
possible ...
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Pug on January 29, 2006, 07:05:53 AM
Cowboy Dave:
Quote
After Ennis does his final "Jack, I swear." and the Santoalalla score crescendos into those parallel tenths to role the credits, I
*always* feel like a truck ran over me. I can't even lift my arms, much less put two hands together ... As for standing, not
possible ...


Same here. It mystifies me how people can get up and leave as soon as the screen fades to black. Also, I have heard loud, laughing conversations while still in the auditorium. My feeling is that #1: They were bored or #2: Jovial conversations serve as a cathartic release.

To me however, I am hammered in my brain and feel punched in the face. Having seen it eight times, that final scene is more powerful than any scene in motion picture history.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Duces Wild on January 29, 2006, 07:21:17 AM
Quote


Same here. It mystifies me how people can get up and leave as soon as the screen fades to black. Also, I have heard loud, laughing conversations while still in the auditorium. My feeling is that #1: They were bored or #2: Jovial conversations serve as a cathartic release.

To me hover, I am hammered in my brain and feel punched in the face. Having seen it eight times, that final scene is more powerful than any scene in motion picture history.

Just a different POV but I actually felt better the second time I saw it.  I had been upset most of the day and half between viewings and damn angry at Ennis but that's for another thread.  Anyway on the second viewing I noticed or was looking for more nuances and understood the dialect better. 

Also, silly as it sounds Jack and Ennis were together again.  Or is that just the 50 viewing of the reunion scene I've watched today.

The ignorance and pain of the movie continues to haunt me though.

The scene with Jack's parents got me again as it is amazing.  It's weird but I just had to see it a second time and felt like I didn't have a choice but am strangely more able to cope with my feelings after seeing it again.

I'll be interested to see how I feel on my 3rd/ 4th  etc. viewing.

DW

Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: vertimus on January 29, 2006, 10:39:29 AM
Cowboy Dave and Pug, I'm with you. I'd say that the 4-year reunion scene is my favorite in the positive sense, but the final scene you reference and the "Jack, why don''t you leave me be" scenes are the most powerful in the 'negative," which, of course, they aren't wholly.  I do believe that "Jack, I swear,'' as a line, will go down in film history, far more than "I wish I knew how to quit you'' will. 

Millions of people have experienced what Ennis expereinces in the final scene, and we all know sometimes, in the most critical moments of our lives, we cannot find any words to express the universe of conflicting emotions we feel in the moment. With 'Jack, I swear,' Ennis said nothing---and absolutely everything. He may have partially redeemed himself--he may have had an enormous catharisis and release at that moment--we really don't know.

If anything, I think BBM supports the idea that words and language fail us more than they assist us on so many occasions, crucial and otherwise. One of the most beautiful aspects of BBM is how it allows the characters to express themselves through their actions, the way they hang their heads, move their eyes, walk, open and close their mouths wordlessly.  Of course, their wordlessness often works against them, as when they part having come down the mountain, and neither can find a way to jump in and seize the beautiful fruit of the moment, which is hanging right there between them.

If only most of us lived lives in which we were moving slowly enough to appreciate non-verbal communication, so much of which is lost via cellphones, web cams, and the uber-pace at which we're all expected to live today (of ourse, these things also aid comunication: look what the internet has done for us here). As Orson Wells narrates at the very beginning of ''The Magnificent Ambersons,' "The faster you can go, the less time you have."

I know I tend to rely on words and language far more than I should, and can talk up a nervous blue streak like the woman Jack dances with. Why? I commute 4 hours a day, and time is short, short, short, as it is for everyone else here in NYC. Far too often I have to rush through the time I have with those I love, which becomes a kind of social editing.  I'm not a huge fan of NYC, I want everyone to know, and long for a quieter life elsewhere, preferrably Vermont or Tennessee, where I was raised. I want and need a slower life where I can appreciate the moment and the fundamentals and the beautiful people I do know and love. 

Thanks, all. 
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: fushia on January 29, 2006, 12:08:01 PM
How I wish I saw this film alone ....  >:( >:( >:(

My friend's reaction spoilt my sceance ...

I hate close-minded people ...  
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: brokebackLJ on January 29, 2006, 12:12:30 PM
Interesting how this movie is turning many of us city boys off to being in the city.
I too feel that NYC for me is part of my development and growth, but will eventually move out to the country somewhere with someone special to raise kids someday. Hopefully. If the army don't get me.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cyoung on January 29, 2006, 12:27:04 PM
I'm bummed. Last night my sister-in-law (husband's sister) went with me to see Brokeback Mountain (my third time, her first). Our 17-year-old daughters also came. She's a conservative Christian who voted for Bush and is one of those generallly good-hearted (but misled, IMO) people. Unfortunately she has a very homophobic husband who's always ranting about the "homosexual agenda." Anyway, she wanted to see the movie; it wasn't something I pushed on her.

It didn't do much for her, didn't really move her. She said her biggest problem was that she didn't find the love and intimacy between the two masculine men at all believable (her words: "it felt so unnatural to me that I couldn't really buy it.... couldn't buy things like a man stroking another's man's face with such love").... I asked her, "Even though you know there are gay men and women who fall in love alll the time?" "Yes, she said, even though she knows that, she still didn't feel it between the characters in this movie." *SIGH* I asked her if she felt empathy and sadness for their situation and predicament, and she said she felt the most empathy/sympathy for Alma.

Her daughter had pretty much the same reaction. My daughter's response was more positive (she thought the scene between Ennis and Jack's parents was absolutely brilliant), but she also wasn't that moved by the movie. However, my daughter doesn't react emotionally to movies in the way that I do; she never cries during even the saddest movies even though she acknowledges that a movie was sad -- she's much more like an Ennis emotionally than a Jack.

So, as we left the theatre last night, I was the only one in my group who was in tears.

The good news is that the theatre in this small college town in very conservative central PA (Lewisburg, home of Bucknell University) was absolutely PACKED, and the crowd was very diverse -- lots of college students, both men and women, and also older heterosexual couples. A group of young women behind us sat in their seats crying after the movie, saying over and over again, "That was so sad." I saw lots of people wiping their eyes.

Just wished it had affected my sister-in-law more deeply, wished she could have gone home to her conservative homophobic husband and raved about the movie.... now I think she'll go home and tell him what she thought and that it'll just fuel his fire.

Cara
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Hmmmm on January 29, 2006, 12:34:38 PM
Interesting how this movie is turning many of us city boys off to being in the city.
I too feel that NYC for me is part of my development and growth, but will eventually move out to the country somewhere with someone special to raise kids someday. Hopefully. If the army don't get me.

Well, you can't be drafted under the current system if you are gay. You would have to volunteer.  In addition volunteering is illegal if you are gay.

A very interesting thread of discussion is going on within the military though about changing the current policy.

A sample of that discussion can be seen in the forum type discussion going on at this link.  I only read a smattering but it appears to be a very civil thoughtful discussion:
http://www.blackfive.net/main/2005/11/lively_discussi.html
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: sherryfair on January 29, 2006, 12:47:12 PM
Finally got to my second viewing. My first was in the East Village in Manhattan, right after opening weekend.

This viewing was at the Sunday noon matinee, in a very affluent suburb of Westchester County, N.Y. (About a half-hour ride north of city on Metro North.) "Brokeback" has been playing for about four weekends here, I'd say. Still, theatre half full for the first showing of the day. The crowd was a bit younger than what usually shows up at that hour. Lots of boomer couples. Some women on outings with girlfriends. A very quiet & respectful audience.

Yes, they did laugh when Alma witnessed the kiss. But the emotional tide turned immediately. Some disapproving clucking of tongues later when Ennis comes back & hastily gathers things for the fishing trip.

Laughter twice later: With cheers, when Jack faces down his father-in-law. And later, when Jack remarks that he could "phone in" his relationship with his wife.

Sniffles already during the dozy embrace.

A bit of murmur at the postcard "deceased." Could hear people "translating" through the theatre: "It said 'deceased.'"

Horrified hisses & intakes of breath during the tire-iron bashing scene.

Audible sniffles and throat-clearing (what I think of as the "straight male equivalent") began over the embrace of the shirts & lasted through Ennis standing alone outside the Twists' house.

A quiet, subdued audience, and everyone relieved to see that a downpour had started outside the theatre while the movie was in progress, so that they could remark about that & recover themselves.   
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: BillN on January 29, 2006, 01:12:51 PM
Cowboy Dave:
Quote
After Ennis does his final "Jack, I swear." and the Santoalalla score crescendos into those parallel tenths to role the credits, I
*always* feel like a truck ran over me. I can't even lift my arms, much less put two hands together ... As for standing, not
possible ...

To me however, I am hammered in my brain and feel punched in the face. Having seen it eight times, that final scene is more powerful than any scene in motion picture history.

Pug, hammered and punched is a good description of what I have felt each time I've seen the film. And it only takes hearing "The Wings" to get me going. I'd agree that there is no applause because people are in shock and don't know how to react. And yes, I'll remember this scene long after any other movie scene.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Pug on January 29, 2006, 02:20:38 PM
Vertimus
Quote
Millions of people have experienced what Ennis expereinces in the final scene, and we all know sometimes, in the most critical moments of our lives, we cannot find any words to express the universe of conflicting emotions we feel in the moment. With 'Jack, I swear,' Ennis said nothing---and absolutely everything. He may have partially redeemed himself--he may have had an enormous catharisis and release at that moment--we really don't know.

If anything, I think BBM supports the idea that words and language fail us more than they assist us on so many occasions, crucial and otherwise. One of the most beautiful aspects of BBM is how it allows the characters to express themselves through their actions, the way they hang their heads, move their eyes, walk, open and close their mouths wordlessly.  Of course, their wordlessness often works against them, as when they part having come down the mountain, and neither can find a way to jump in and seize the beautiful fruit of the moment, which is hanging right there between them.

Eloquently put. Where others have found meanings in "I swear" ther than what you say, I trhink you nailed it for me.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: DaveinPhilly on January 29, 2006, 03:35:23 PM
Interesting how this movie is turning many of us city boys off to being in the city.
I too feel that NYC for me is part of my development and growth, but will eventually move out to the country somewhere with someone special to raise kids someday. Hopefully. If the army don't get me.

Yeah, I found myself watching rodeo on the TV in downtown Philly today. Good grief, what's become of me!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Cowboy Dave on January 29, 2006, 04:30:34 PM
Quote
Interesting how this movie is turning many of us city boys off to being in the city.
I too feel that NYC for me is part of my development and growth, but will eventually move out to the country somewhere with someone special to raise kids someday. Hopefully. If the army don't get me.

Yeah, I found myself watching rodeo on the TV in downtown Philly today. Good grief, what's become of me!

LOL! DaveinPhilly - I used to be Dave in Philly (lived in Fitler Square, taught at Penn). But I decided that was "a godamn bitch of a unsatisfactory situation." Now I's out here in a country.  Almost got me down to Phoenix Gay Rodeo a few weekends ago!!

Just got back from 3rd viewing here in Flagstaff. Attendance steady (up about 10% actually), and audience reactions were mature and enthusiastic. After I see this thing, I'm always dehydrated, so I went to the neighboring "Orange Julius." Couple behind me in line deciding on a movie: Gal says, "What's Brokeback Mountain?" Guy says, "That's a movie about 2 cowboys with families that go out into the wilderness and discover they're not really family men."  Ya should seen me trying SO HARD not to laugh!

But time 3 - WOW again - Catharsis still kickin' me in the ribs. This time, by the end (still had a hard time getting out of the chair), I felt a geyser of new awareness and incite into my earlier closeted life, marriage, etc., (and I've been "out" for 15 years!). I felt myself going, "OH - THAT's what happened!" Things were so traumatic that I think I couldn't even bear to feel most of it at the time ... I swear.

ok - now what?

Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: RolandC on January 29, 2006, 04:48:54 PM
Thanks for the insight, Cowboy Dave!

Question for you -- did you see the film by yourself all three times? If you did, do you think you would have reacted to it differently if you were with someone?
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: vertimus on January 29, 2006, 04:52:36 PM
DaveInPhilly, I've been a lifelong fan of the western genres of film and televsion, from Shane to High Noon to the Virginian, Rawhide, and The Big Valley, to say nothing of Once Upon A Time in The West, and country and western music (I was raised in Nashville until i was 8) It's nothing new to report, of course, that such films and programs have an enormous homosexual subtext, especially Tourneur's Canyon Passage. It's all there.

You may want to seek out the new book The Man Who Invented Rock Hudson, which graphically depicts how many male actors, including Rory Calhoun and the physically beautiful Guy Madison, enjoyed their time on the male casting couch and even enjoyed long physical and sexual relationships with one another. Names are named, and, as I said on Amazon, 'hand over fist.' Organs are measured and reported on. It's not quite the sleazy tell-all book it's been marketed as.

In that way, I see Brokeback as simply completing this circle, if not closing or concluding it. Hopefully more research will continue to be done and more facts will come to light about male-male activity in 'the Old West.' as it has during the high 'pirate era' and other historical settings where men were pretty much left to their own devices. Films like Alexander, which I liked, are helping all of this along.

We have a long tradition, and nothing at all to be ashamed of, a fact that should have really become much more centered in society after Kinsey''s Male volume in the 40s. The recent kinsey film is also fascinating, as are the 2 books currently in circulation about his life. He certainly didn't have a hard time convincing most of his male staff to get into bed with him and other men year after year, despite their marriages.

It still strikes me as funny sometimes how ***-damned frightened we all are, individually and as a society, of the erect penis and the male orgasm. Perhaps it's just the pagan in me, the Maypole dancer that I've never been, at least not in this life, but male sexuality i(as all or most) s such a beautiful and wonderul thing, as BBM reveals so powerfully. I think those 'traditional' societes that made totems of the phallus had the right idea.

If you see a smily face in the first paragraph, that''s a glitch.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Cowboy Dave on January 29, 2006, 06:41:35 PM
Quote
Thanks for the insight, Cowboy Dave!

Question for you -- did you see the film by yourself all three times? If you did, do you think you would have reacted to it differently if you were with someone?

First time - saw it with Pardner "G" and another gay couple. Had to keep lid on the flood inside 'cause it woulda been really too much. My heart actually started fibrillating on one of the Heath scenes and that helped, cause then I had to close my eyes and just concentrate on breathing. (this doesn't happen often to me) At the end, I just corked all this so I could function socially. Our gay pals had "misty eyes." Mine were dry, cause letting it out woulda been a LOT more than a tear in the corner of my eye! I faltered a couple times walking away from the theater, but the strength of it was scary enough to let me force it back in the bottle.

Next two times were alone and what a relief. "G" was out of town. I'm the one who was married w/kids etc., so I have a lot of history here that he just doesn't have. I really needed to just have this by myself.  I think G wants to go again, so we'll go together next. I think it'll be GREAT. But truly, this movie is so personal, that there are parts of it I needed to go over with jes' my own self. The second time I cried comfortably by myself. When it was over, I had this huge spiritual hunger and peace. I just drove out onto the Navajo Res for a couple hours. Big Sky country ... Everything felt so REAL. It was beautiful....

This time I had the same feeling of peace and clarity, but had to come straight home. I feel like I'm getting somewhere, but I don't know where. I'm at a place in my life where more than I dared hope for has really worked out! But I don't know what's next ??? This movie is showing me that - first off - I don't REALLY know what just happened either! Perhaps I need to see this more fully before I can see what's next ...

(sorry to blabber on)




Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: terry on January 30, 2006, 01:43:40 AM
  Cowboy Dave, don't worry about blabbering; we're all doing it here!!  My co-worker saw it and said she thought about the movie for two days after she saw it.  It's impact on her was that great.  Oh God, I'm staring to get teary.  Got to go!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Sue in Baltimore on January 30, 2006, 03:16:39 AM
I'm bummed. Last night my sister-in-law (husband's sister) went with me to see Brokeback Mountain (my third time, her first). Our 17-year-old daughters also came.

It didn't do much for her, didn't really move her.

Her daughter had pretty much the same reaction. My daughter's response was more positive (she thought the scene between Ennis and Jack's parents was absolutely brilliant), but she also wasn't that moved by the movie. However, my daughter doesn't react emotionally to movies in the way that I do; she never cries during even the saddest movies even though she acknowledges that a movie was sad -- she's much more like an Ennis emotionally than a Jack.

So, as we left the theatre last night, I was the only one in my group who was in tears.

Just wished it had affected my sister-in-law more deeply, wished she could have gone home to her conservative homophobic husband and raved about the movie.... now I think she'll go home and tell him what she thought and that it'll just fuel his fire.

Cara

Hi Cara.  Sorry to hear about this experience of yours - sorrier, really, for your two relatives.  Zen Buddhism teaches that when the student is ready, the teacher appears.  At the risk of sounding way too impressed with our own enlightenment  ;) , I must say that I think those of us here were ready to receive what this movie offers the world in a way that many others are not, including your relatives.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Cowboy Dave on January 30, 2006, 07:54:23 AM
Also Cara - as an ex-evangelical, I can tell you that fundy defense mechanisms can be saying one thing while something else is going on in one's heart! Could be that some unseen good was still done w/your sister-in-law
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Sue in Baltimore on January 30, 2006, 08:25:53 AM
Excellent point, Dave; I totally agree. 

Cara, all philosophizing aside, I know it probably still sucks to see others react that way.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: DaveinPhilly on January 30, 2006, 09:41:20 AM
Quote
!

LOL! DaveinPhilly - I used to be Dave in Philly (lived in Fitler Square, taught at Penn). But I decided that was "a godamn bitch of a unsatisfactory situation." Now I's out here in a country.  Almost got me down to Phoenix Gay Rodeo a few weekends ago!!



Hi there from Philly, CowboyDave!  Yes, there's definitely a draw to the  countryside and the wide open spaces! Glad to hear it's getting good play in Flagstaff. It is really "connecting with the heart of America" I guess. The film never disappoints me after 6 viewings. I want to steal away right now, but there's work...

And vertimus - I'm aware of the cultural roots of the genre - grew up on it. It is so profoundly deep in American culture. Shame? Damn right there should be no shame, but this will take a long time before such healing can take place. The shame is equally deep in the gay male in this country and it's up to us to find ways to kill it. Call to arms! I'm still re-reading cowboysnkisses excellent posting on the matter.

When one reads the touching posts from young people who are just coming to grips with their sexuality one realizes how much work there is to do and how important it is.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: terry on January 30, 2006, 10:04:12 AM
  Hey Cara, don't sweat it.  You can't expect everyone to love something we do.  Different strokes for different folks.  Besides, you're on this board with us who love it so it can't be that bad, right?
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cyoung on January 30, 2006, 11:01:12 AM
Also Cara - as an ex-evangelical, I can tell you that fundy defense mechanisms can be saying one thing while something else is going on in one's heart! Could be that some unseen good was still done w/your sister-in-law

I hope so. She seemed pretty dismissive, even the next day. My niece said something interesting the next day, though. A friend of my sister-in-law had really liked the movie, said it had "sat on her shoulder" for days afterward. That next morning, my niece said the movie was also "sitting on her shoulder." I asked her in what way -- the sadness? And she scoffed a little and said, "I don't know." But couldn't or wouldn't elaborate.

Cara
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cyoung on January 30, 2006, 11:07:04 AM
Just got an e-mail thank-you note from my sister-in-law. Here's what she said about the movie. She sounded more positive this time. Hmmm. Don't know if that means anything or if it's just part of being polite in thanking us for the visit.

"I enjoyed the movie, even though I'm not as inclined to analyze it; it was good and I'm glad I saw it with you."

Cara
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Cowboy Dave on January 30, 2006, 11:20:11 AM
wow - I would be tempted to interpret that:

  "I feel a lot more empathy now, but I can't really discuss the philosophical
   (theological?) consequences of this because it would require thinking independently of my
   current support system and perhaps having unacceptable views."

 ???


Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cyoung on January 30, 2006, 11:33:18 AM
wow - I would be tempted to interpret that:

  "I feel a lot more empathy now, but I can't really discuss the philosophical
   (theological?) consequences of this because it would require thinking independently of my
   current support system and perhaps having unacceptable views."

 ???

Could be. Or she may be saying something positive because she knew I was a little disappointed by her reaction.

Cara
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: lynn on January 30, 2006, 11:43:09 AM
"I enjoyed the movie, even though I'm not as inclined to analyze it; it was good and I'm glad I saw it with you."

Cara, that is so similiar to the e-mail I got from my girlfriend that it "was fun", she was glad she went, and the movie "had meaning". Later, she admitted she was numb over events in her own life, and perhaps like your SIL, I think she was trying to apologize for not reacting the way I did.

I think a viewer's reaction to this movie rests upon one's current emotional state and willingness to experience unpleasant emotions (heartache, suffering, despair), along with other factors like world view and life experience. Not everyone can be in the right emotional state to truly experience the movie's power.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: aevkc on January 30, 2006, 11:47:16 AM
I saw the movie for the third time with my mother this weekend.  She was bawling at the end, as was I (again!).  Anyway, on the way out she said, "I just can't take it.  It's too sad.  So in my mind I'm just going to think that Ennis meets a nice boy at his daughter's wedding and they live happily ever after."  It was so cute and sweet to hear my 62 year old mother saying those words that it actually made me laugh through my tears.   
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Cowboy Dave on January 30, 2006, 12:44:22 PM
aekvc,

There are no doubt a lot of us here that would like to trade moms with YOU! Or, could she at least adopt us?

:)
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: aevkc on January 30, 2006, 12:53:00 PM
Yeah, I have to say, my family is pretty great.  My dad, step-mom, mom and step-dad and my husband have all seen the movie and loved it.  They aren't quite as obsessed as I am (although my mom wants to see it again), but they don't give me any grief either!  :) 
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: lektronnorth on January 30, 2006, 01:23:19 PM
Very fed up this evening. I've been a BBM ambassador to my straight friends at work. I work in the media in the UK, you'd think reasonably "liberal" with a small l, as indeed it is.  Have even written a small article about it in the weekly newspaper I do a column for - which resulted in a fellow columnist producing a sneering "Homo on the range" piece. That's him off my Christmas Card list.

But the reason I'm fed up is that three couples who I would have thought would have been pretty receptive came out with a succession of utterly fatuous and vacuous comments, I can only assume that a lot of straight people (honourable exceptions on this board, obviously) have NO IDEA what being a repressed, or even a reasonably together gay person is like. Let alone how great this film is. "Heath Ledger - he's the one that mumbles"   "I thought Jake's moustache was ridiculous".  "It was a good movie".

I could bloody kill the friggin lot of them.  On top of the SAG, I'm now convinced that the film industry will reward Ang Lee by comprehensively stiffing this.  I could cry - though I'm obviously going to save that for the next time I see the movie.

HELP!!!!!!!   
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: killersmom on January 30, 2006, 01:34:47 PM
After reading the previous posts I would like to share my experience in seeing the movie with my best friend and business partner. We have been best friends for 35 yrs and business partners for 3 months. I started talking the movie up early last fall, just little comments here and there. Nothing much in response.

When it finally hit our neck of the woods in early January, after I had been talking more and more about it because I had
1. read the short story
2. started posting on this board
I told her I was going to go to see BBM the next night. She asked if I wanted some company. My mouth was opened to my knees.
Although we are best friends, we are far apart in many issues, but what makes us good friends is that we respect those differences and  don't let them interfere with our friendship. I said sure, but reminded her that there were 3 scenes she might have a problem with. She told me not to worry. We went the next evening, I was overwhelmed and she acted underwhelmed. We did not discuss much, but I had my support group here, so that helped me.

A few days later, she started talking about the movie to me. Asking questions, what I thought of a certain scene, did I think another scene meant this...Since then it has opened up a dialog between us, that in 35 yrs of friendship, I never, ever believed we would have. She since has seen it with me a second time at her instigation.

More diverse dialog has ensued. It has been tremendous and astounding. She has asked to meet and have lunch with several of my best friends who are gay when they come to visit me. I firmly believe without this movie sharing experience, these discussions never would have happened. It is wonderful.

In the opposite direction, I brought up the movie in a discussion with my sister-in-law, and she said no, she had "no desire to see two gay cowboys getting it on in the mountains". I also have some acquaintances who have told me they would like to see the movie as husband or boyfriend won't go, but cannot get them to commit to go.

This is my experience, from one extreme to the other and the middle ground :)
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: BillN on January 30, 2006, 01:50:23 PM
After reading the previous posts I would like to share my experience in seeing the movie with my best friend and business partner. We have been best friends for 35 yrs and business partners for 3 months.
More diverse dialog has ensued. It has been tremendous and astounding. She has asked to meet and have lunch with several of my best friends who are gay when they come to visit me. I firmly believe without this movie sharing experience, these discussions never would have happened. It is wonderful.


Killersmon, that is fantastic. I've had a variety of responses of people who have seen the film and it has been all over the map. My sense is that if only a portion of those folks have a reaction that allows them to be more open and tolerant, BBM is a tremendous success.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: trinket on January 30, 2006, 01:59:22 PM


Hi guys!  I just read this review on BB.
I thought it was SO WELL done!! Read all of it and see what you think. Send those who you know don't want to see it the website and ask them to read it ALL, also.
I think this review could possible change people's minds.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11102003/page/2/
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: sherryfair on January 30, 2006, 02:09:41 PM
Trinket, this is excellent, indeed.

Have you posted it on the Brokeback's Effect on Women board?

Note from lynn: thanks for the heads-up, I'm posting it in Women and in Reviews now.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: WLAGuy on January 30, 2006, 02:11:11 PM


Hi guys!  I just read this review on BB.
I thought it was SO WELL done!! Read all of it and see what you think. Send those who you know don't want to see it the website and ask them to read it ALL, also.
I think this review could possible change people's minds.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11102003/page/2/

That was great.  Thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Ken on January 30, 2006, 02:11:37 PM


Hi guys!  I just read this review on BB.
I thought it was SO WELL done!! Read all of it and see what you think. Send those who you know don't want to see it the website and ask them to read it ALL, also.
I think this review could possible change people's minds.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11102003/page/2/
WOW! Great review, from a very stright guy! Erik, not me. Thanks for the link.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: trinket on January 30, 2006, 02:30:29 PM

Quote
WOW! Great review, from a very stright guy! Erik, not me. Thanks for the link.
Quote




You are all so welcome, I am glad you liked it as much as I did.
We BBM junkies have to stick together.
I am in the middle of sending Mr.Lundegaard an email about it!
And have you guys noticed????
I'm now experienced.'  THANK YOU THANK YOU ....I owe it all to you guys!! 
And for those of you who were on the live thread last night.....why didn't you come over and join Jake and i for wine when he got home from the SAG awards???   ;D
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: SamNasty on January 30, 2006, 05:05:26 PM
After reading the previous posts I would like to share my experience in seeing the movie with my best friend and business partner. We have been best friends for 35 yrs and business partners for 3 months. I started talking the movie up early last fall, just little comments here and there. Nothing much in response.

When it finally hit our neck of the woods in early January, after I had been talking more and more about it because I had
1. read the short story
2. started posting on this board
I told her I was going to go to see BBM the next night. She asked if I wanted some company. My mouth was opened to my knees.
Although we are best friends, we are far apart in many issues, but what makes us good friends is that we respect those differences and  don't let them interfere with our friendship. I said sure, but reminded her that there were 3 scenes she might have a problem with. She told me not to worry. We went the next evening, I was overwhelmed and she acted underwhelmed. We did not discuss much, but I had my support group here, so that helped me.

A few days later, she started talking about the movie to me. Asking questions, what I thought of a certain scene, did I think another scene meant this...Since then it has opened up a dialog between us, that in 35 yrs of friendship, I never, ever believed we would have. She since has seen it with me a second time at her instigation.

More diverse dialog has ensued. It has been tremendous and astounding. She has asked to meet and have lunch with several of my best friends who are gay when they come to visit me. I firmly believe without this movie sharing experience, these discussions never would have happened. It is wonderful.

In the opposite direction, I brought up the movie in a discussion with my sister-in-law, and she said no, she had "no desire to see two gay cowboys getting it on in the mountains". I also have some acquaintances who have told me they would like to see the movie as husband or boyfriend won't go, but cannot get them to commit to go.

This is my experience, from one extreme to the other and the middle ground :)

i love this post!!  awesome killersmom!! 
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: killersmom on January 30, 2006, 05:27:42 PM
i love this post!!  awesome killersmom!! 


Thanks SamNasty for the kind words.
This all has been an awesome and life defining experience for me as it has for so many others sharing here.

PS like your pic on BBM post your pic thread, it's so cool to have a face for a name, and a nice one I might add ;)
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: killersmom on January 30, 2006, 05:32:04 PM
Killersmon, that is fantastic. I've had a variety of responses of people who have seen the film and it has been all over the map. My sense is that if only a portion of those folks have a reaction that allows them to be more open and tolerant, BBM is a tremendous success.


BillN, thanks so much and I couldn't agree more. Just my personal  gamut  of reactions is astounding. Yes I feel if I have gotten at least one person to be more open and tolerant, than I have succeeded. I don't plan on stopping with just one however, I will continue to try for many more. Thanks
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Timothy on January 30, 2006, 05:52:55 PM
I impulsively went to my 4th viewing 7:00 pm on Saturday at the Arclight in LA.

The theater wasn't very full at all, only maybe a couple hundred people.  I sat next to a woman who was back for her second viewing and had brought her parents.  She was a little worried about how they'd respond.  I was too embarrassed to admit this was my 4th so I acted like it was my second.    8)  I didn't see anyone who I thought "looked gay" but there were quite a few guys there with their gal and a lot of groups of women.

A group of girls behind me had a vocal one; she wasn't real loud but had a lot to say - almost but not quite under her breath.  Without doubt she was a sheep lover, lots of "aww".  She giggled at the Alma scene and Thanksgiving, etc.  I could have been a bit annoyed but I realized she was into the movie and enjoying it and this was her natural reaction.  I was engrossed again by then so I have no idea how she responded later.

The woman next to me was in tears at the end (she had to ask me if I cried).  She thought her parents liked it "because they haven't made a sound".  As I left I realized that the woman I sat near had invested in the movie.  She wanted to bring her parents and she really did care whether the movie made me cry.  I wouldn't be surprised to find out she's on this site.  This is the second time that a total stranger has found it necessary to talk to me at the end of the movie - something I haven't experienced much before.  In fact, I can't recall that ever happening.

I could have been disappointed in the total audience attendance but the film's showing on two screens and has been playing there for about 7 weeks.  It may be getting a bit played out at that one location.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: exlogcabin on January 30, 2006, 07:10:40 PM
Hey Timothy,

Thanks for the report on the ArcLight.  A few of us will be attending on Sunday around 5ish if you wanna see it for a fifth time.  Don't worry though.  You can lie to us and tell us it is only your second.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: killersmom on January 30, 2006, 07:23:09 PM
I impulsively went to my 4th viewing 7:00 pm on Saturday at the Arclight in LA.
 
Thanks Timothy, it's nice to know that someone else impulsively goes to see the movie. The last 4 of my 7 times (and no I'm not ashamed) have been impulse. I'll be halfway thru the workday, and look up and say, yep...I need a BB fix... leave  work at the end of the day and head straight to the theater. (My truck goes there on it's own now.)
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: KathyinBama on January 30, 2006, 08:08:18 PM
I went to see the film for my second time yesterday.  I live in a relatively small town in Alabama, so I had seen it first in Birmingham and this time in Memphis.  The audience was small, but it was the earliest show on a Sunday, so I suspect it was not a time that there would ever be a huge crowd.  The audience was very quiet, as was the friend I took for her first viewing.  I was not sure if I was alone in my strong response until the lights came up and I saw my friend and all those around us were similarly tearstained.  We came home today and heard that BBM will be opening here, in Florence, Alabama, on Friday!  Believe me, if it is opening in Florence, it must be opening EVERYWHERE.  The theater workers have to attend a meeting about dealing with the expected protesters, but I hope they are wrong - I hope this beautiful film will be welcomed here with open arms.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: trinket on January 30, 2006, 08:18:23 PM
I also went for the second time yesterday.  A theater in a small city outside Columbus.  I went alone, a HUGE deal for me.
Mostly middle aged people, like me.  A few people (women) by themselves and couples.  No young people.
I got WWWAAAYYYY more out of it the second time.  I went in without assumptions and no barriers. 
I felt very comfortable and ready to take all of Jack and Ennis in, ya know?
Got all teary and then got to my van and cried.  It's tragic, beautiful.
Honestly, I don't know if I could do it again.  I really don't.  Any words of wisdom on that?
killersmom?  any of you others who's vehicles now have minds of their own?
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: killersmom on January 30, 2006, 11:01:40 PM
I also went for the second time yesterday.  A theater in a small city outside Columbus.  I went alone, a HUGE deal for me.
Mostly middle aged people, like me.  A few people (women) by themselves and couples.  No young people.
I got WWWAAAYYYY more out of it the second time.  I went in without assumptions and no barriers. 
I felt very comfortable and ready to take all of Jack and Ennis in, ya know?
Got all teary and then got to my van and cried.  It's tragic, beautiful.
Honestly, I don't know if I could do it again.  I really don't.  Any words of wisdom on that?
killersmom?  any of you others who's vehicles now have minds of their own?

Trinket,
Each time I go, it's with a fresh set of eyes that I view it. I am exceedingly lucky that I can spend some time strolling thru various threads and drink in the varied thoughts that are put forth by everyone here. There are little nuggets, gems of thought, that I pick up and can use to view the movie each time. I also have read the story and story to screen books and take away from them the differences that do not show up in the movie. All this allows me to "do it again".

I have seen the movie 4, out of the 7 times I have seen it, by myself...not by choice (although it is not a bad thing) but because I can find no one willing to go with me again, and I still go out to my truck and cry most of the way home. For me this is not a bad thing, or a strange thing (for I AM a crier by nature) but a cleansing thing.

There is but one big thing to remember here, Trinket, and that is what works and is right and comfortable for you is what is the most important thing. If you don't feel you can view the movie again then don't. That's what this board is all about, the individuals who come together to make it whole. It is what's best for you,and you are the only one that can decide that.

Yes, my truck knows how to get to 3 of the 5 theaters BBM is showing at from both my home and my business. Ain't it grand ;D

killersmom
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Tony on January 30, 2006, 11:51:54 PM
A few days later, she started talking about the movie to me. Asking questions, what I thought of a certain scene, did I think another scene meant this...Since then it has opened up a dialog between us, that in 35 yrs of friendship, I never, ever believed we would have. She since has seen it with me a second time at her instigation.
Lovely...
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: DFWRichNYC on January 31, 2006, 12:41:04 AM
Just got back from a trip to Texas to see the family. My mom's moving into a new house and needed the help of me, my sister Kim and her husband Jerrry in order to get her things moved out.

I had e-mailed Kim awhile back asking if she could please take our mom to see Brokeback since I live up here in NYC:

Kim-
Would you please drag mom to see 'Brokeback Mountain'? It would mean a lot to me. If you do, don't let her know I asked you and don't let her pick 'King Kong' instead. Tell her you really want to go and Jerry won't go with you or something?

For one thing, it is absolutely the Best Picture of the Year. No joke. Secondly, and this is gonna sound weird, but Heath Ledger in the movie reminded me of Daddy- that taciturn few-words guy with a good heart. But the reason I want her to see it (and ideally all the rest of you guys) is because it's the first film I've seen that 'get's it'- The cost in self-hatred, fear and confusion that being gay brings in this culture and time- particularly in TX and other Midwestern places. I went through all the stuff these two guys go through- and not one of ya'll understand it to this day. I hope maybe you'll do me the small favor of going to see a great movie you might not have seen otherwise if i hadn't asked.

Love you
R


So, anyways, a few weeks went by and they still hadn't gone to see it. My flying down to TX last Thursday was a suprise. We worked on getting Mom boxed up and Friday my Mom consented to seeing Brokeback with me, despite misgivings. We invited my sister and her husband but Jerry refused to see the film. Obvious straight-guy angst. He said he'd be fine if my sister decided to go. But then my  sister begged off, claiming sudden 'menstrual distress' though we'd been running around together all day and she had said nothing and seemed fine.

So my mom and i went alone.

When I came out to my parents 15 years ago they were viscious with me- threw me out of the house, engaged in name calling and fist fights, threatened psychologists et al.. I finally brought my dad around before his death in '96- our last Thansgiving together he invited my then-boyfriend. Once my mom was widowed she mellowed enormously - became best friends with a gay man at her work, etc.- but there's still been that "why can't you meet a nice girl" etc undercurrent.

Her first reaction was during the first tent scene. She winced and turned away. The second tent scene she seemed fine but i noticed she began sitting with her arms crossed the whole movie- very closed off body language. She claimed later she had been cold. I'm not so sure. I'm not sure she could understand what was driving the boys internally- the combination of self-hatred and rebellion that drives Ennis' fistfighting and Jack's sullen cruising. Once the affair re-ignited my mom was definitely on the side of the wives. When Alma saw them kissing my mom just started whispering about how that was just like men how they were so stupid etc. Fortunately we weren't sitting near anybody. She seemed to relax and follow the story, whisperingto me occasionally to ask questions. Example- She was absolutely sure that Jack's mom slipped Ennis the ashes on the sly when she gave him the paper bag.

Afterwards, we talked in a diner. I admit that my conversation was mostly about me trying to make her understand what I had gone through- what she and my father had put me through- while trying to pretend the talk was all about the movie and Jack and Ennis' experience. My mom made the chat all about the film- avoiding any wider discussion. She decided that she liked Jack's dreamy eyes and thought he could have done better than Ennis.

I've returned to NY and wrote the following to my sister who had begged off on seeing the film.


Kim-
It was good we got a chance to see each other over the weekend. What a job, huh?

I just wanted to drop you a note about something that bothered me- I know you said you weren't feeling too great, but I was disappointed you didn't go to the movie with mom and me. I'd told you in my e-mail how much it would mean to me if you guys would. Jerry, particularly, seemed to have no sympathy and objected even to the idea of the movie- parroting Fox News talking points at me about how the characters are not real cowboys.  Look- You guys have a daughter who is a lesbian, and you have a gay brother. Here's a first-rate film- best picture of the year- that might give you a glimpse at what we go through (the movie's really about the cost of hating one's self) and I can feel you guys avoiding it. Jerry even seems proud to be against the movie. If you were me, what would you be thinking? I don't think ya'll really want to pick Rush Limbaugh over your own family.

Anyways, I had to let you know how I feel.

Hope you're well.
R

Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: lektronnorth on January 31, 2006, 12:46:28 AM
Just got back from a trip to Texas to see the family. My mom's moving into a new house and needed the help of me, my sister Kim and her husband Jerrry in order to get her things moved out.

I had e-mailed Kim awhile back asking if she could please take our mom to see Brokeback since I live up here in NYC:

Kim-
Would you please drag mom to see 'Brokeback Mountain'? It would mean a lot to me. If you do, don't let her know I asked you and don't let her pick 'King Kong' instead. Tell her you really want to go and Jerry won't go with you or something?

For one thing, it is absolutely the Best Picture of the Year. No joke. Secondly, and this is gonna sound weird, but Heath Ledger in the movie reminded me of Daddy- that taciturn few-words guy with a good heart. But the reason I want her to see it (and ideally all the rest of you guys) is because it's the first film I've seen that 'get's it'- The cost in self-hatred, fear and confusion that being gay brings in this culture and time- particularly in TX and other Midwestern places. I went through all the stuff these two guys go through- and not one of ya'll understand it to this day. I hope maybe you'll do me the small favor of going to see a great movie you might not have seen otherwise if i hadn't asked.

Love you
R


So, anyways, a few weeks went by and they still hadn't gone to see it. My flying down to TX last Thursday was a suprise. We worked on getting Mom boxed up and Friday my Mom consented to seeing Brokeback with me, despite misgivings. We invited my sister and her husband but Jerry refused to see the film. Obvious straight-guy angst. He said he'd be fine if my sister decided to go. But then my  sister begged off, claiming sudden 'menstrual distress' though we'd been running around together all day and she had said nothing and seemed fine.

So my mom and i went alone.

When I came out to my parents 15 years ago they were viscious with me- threw me out of the house, engaged in name calling and fist fights, threatened psychologists et al.. I finally brought my dad around before his death in '96- our last Thansgiving together he invited my then-boyfriend. Once my mom was widowed she mellowed enormously - became best friends with a gay man at her work, etc.- but there's still been that "why can't you meet a nice girl" etc undercurrent.

Her first reaction was during the first tent scene. She winced and turned away. The second tent scene she seemed fine but i noticed she began sitting with her arms crossed the whole movie- very closed off body language. She claimed later she had been cold. I'm not so sure. I'm not sure she could understand what was driving the boys internally- the combination of self-hatred and rebellion that drives Ennis' fistfighting and Jack's sullen cruising. Once the affair re-ignited my mom was definitely on the side of the wives. When Alma saw them kissing my mom just started whispering about how that was just like men how they were so stupid etc. Fortunately we weren't sitting near anybody. She seemed to relax and follow the story, whisperingto me occasionally to ask questions. Example- She was absolutely sure that Jack's mom slipped Ennis the ashes on the sly when she gave him the paper bag.

Afterwards, we talked in a diner. I admit that my conversation was mostly about me trying to make her understand what I had gone through- what she and my father had put me through- while trying to pretend the talk was all about the movie and Jack and Ennis' experience. My mom made the chat all about the film- avoiding any wider discussion. She decided that she liked Jack's dreamy eyes and thought he could have done better than Ennis.

I've returned to NY and wrote the following to my sister who had begged off on seeing the film.


Kim-
It was good we got a chance to see each other over the weekend. What a job, huh?

I just wanted to drop you a note about something that bothered me- I know you said you weren't feeling too great, but I was disappointed you didn't go to the movie with mom and me. I'd told you in my e-mail how much it would mean to me if you guys would. Jerry, particularly, seemed to have no sympathy and objected even to the idea of the movie- parroting Fox News talking points at me about how the characters are not real cowboys.  Look- You guys have a daughter who is a lesbian, and you have a gay brother. Here's a first-rate film- best picture of the year- that might give you a glimpse at what we go through (the movie's really about the cost of hating one's self) and I can feel you guys avoiding it. Jerry even seems proud to be against the movie. If you were me, what would you be thinking? I don't think ya'll really want to pick Rush Limbaugh over your own family.

Anyways, I had to let you know how I feel.

Hope you're well.
R



They don't deserve you.  I know that won't help, but, really, they don't.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Tim on January 31, 2006, 06:02:33 AM


Hi guys!  I just read this review on BB.
I thought it was SO WELL done!! Read all of it and see what you think. Send those who you know don't want to see it the website and ask them to read it ALL, also.
I think this review could possible change people's minds.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11102003/page/2/

Quote
Ennis resonates because he reminds us of some part of us. Life has such possibilities, and from lack of courage or weariness or outright fear we allow it to shrink us into this small, sad space doing this small, sad thing. Don’t look at my face because you might see who I am.

I can identify with this so much....
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cyoung on January 31, 2006, 06:39:40 AM

Anyways, I had to let you know how I feel.

Hope you're well.
R


This post, and your letters to your family, made me just ache for you. Hey, if I were your sister, I'd go with you in a heartbeat!

Cara
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: DaveinPhilly on January 31, 2006, 10:07:41 AM

Anyways, I had to let you know how I feel.

Hope you're well.
R


This post, and your letters to your family, made me just ache for you. Hey, if I were your sister, I'd go with you in a heartbeat!

Cara

Cara & Lektronorth  - there's a whole lot of insensitive people out there in them thar hills. Stay focused on the supportive ones. My own family - "hugely" supportive of me and my partner of 26yrs haven't bothered to see it, even though I wrote 2 emails to each of them weeks ago asking them to do something for me.  I guess they'll rent it and then we'll get around to a discussion of some sort. the thing (admittedly small) for me is that like so many films the big screen is hugely important. To view a postage stamp of any work of art is not to fully see it.

But that said, you're both in good company here!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: jack on January 31, 2006, 10:20:11 AM
aekvc,
There are no doubt a lot of us here that would like to trade moms with YOU! Or, could she at least adopt us?

adopt, nothing, i was thinking of asking her if she wants to rescue a 62 year old gay man from a solitary life... maybe she could fix me  ;)

jack
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: jack on January 31, 2006, 10:26:11 AM
Very fed up this evening. I've been a BBM ambassador to my straight friends at work. I work in the media in the UK, you'd think reasonably "liberal" with a small l, as indeed it is.  Have even written a small article about it in the weekly newspaper I do a column for - which resulted in a fellow columnist producing a sneering "Homo on the range" piece. That's him off my Christmas Card list.

I could bloody kill the friggin lot of them.  On top of the SAG, I'm now convinced that the film industry will reward Ang Lee by comprehensively stiffing this.  I could cry - though I'm obviously going to save that for the next time I see the movie.

lectron,

there is a great old latin saying, no, not carpe diem ...  illegitimus non carborundum... very freely translated, don't let the bastards wear you down !
-or-

as bette middler says "f**k 'em if they can't take a joke!

you have us, a 24/7 equal opportunity comfort zone.

jack
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: richardL on January 31, 2006, 10:40:04 AM
I just saw friends out of town.
They are gay male couple .. 40s .. they went with fairly eccentric straight couple .. gay guys were really ho-hum about the film ( it was too long too slow
blah blah )... I could have burst.  Eccentric straight couple loved it .. HE cried lots, she's a hard cow but she said she was very moved....
He's the first straight man I've known to cry due to the film. If you can imagine this guy .. hes about 6ft5in, overweight, about 50yrs old
mad flowing silver hair. Went to Winchester and has booming middle class voice. And he cried.
Who's next to be struck ?
Rich   
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: graylockV on January 31, 2006, 11:14:18 AM

I just wanted to drop you a note about something that bothered me- I know you said you weren't feeling too great, but I was disappointed you didn't go to the movie with mom and me. I'd told you in my e-mail how much it would mean to me if you guys would. Jerry, particularly, seemed to have no sympathy and objected even to the idea of the movie- parroting Fox News talking points at me about how the characters are not real cowboys.  Look- You guys have a daughter who is a lesbian, and you have a gay brother. Here's a first-rate film- best picture of the year- that might give you a glimpse at what we go through (the movie's really about the cost of hating one's self) and I can feel you guys avoiding it. Jerry even seems proud to be against the movie. If you were me, what would you be thinking? I don't think ya'll really want to pick Rush Limbaugh over your own family.

Anyways, I had to let you know how I feel.

Hope you're well.
R


To DFWRichNYC:

I just read this post and your prior lengthy one about your experiences with your family.  I just have to chime in and say that somebody did something right in your upbringing and education for you to be able to articulate your life experience so well. 

It is your family's loss that they refuse to understand what you have been through, and what they put you through.   Like Ennis - they may not appreciate what they have lost till it's too late.  But sadly, some people just never "get it."  No matter how much we want them to, no matter how hard we try.  Remember the old saying, "There are none so blind as those who refuse to see."
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: lektronnorth on January 31, 2006, 11:42:27 AM
Very fed up this evening. I've been a BBM ambassador to my straight friends at work. I work in the media in the UK, you'd think reasonably "liberal" with a small l, as indeed it is.  Have even written a small article about it in the weekly newspaper I do a column for - which resulted in a fellow columnist producing a sneering "Homo on the range" piece. That's him off my Christmas Card list.

I could bloody kill the friggin lot of them.  On top of the SAG, I'm now convinced that the film industry will reward Ang Lee by comprehensively stiffing this.  I could cry - though I'm obviously going to save that for the next time I see the movie.

lectron,

there is a great old latin saying, no, not carpe diem ...  illegitimus non carborundum... very freely translated, don't let the bastards wear you down !
-or-

as bette middler says "f**k 'em if they can't take a joke!

you have us, a 24/7 equal opportunity comfort zone.

jack


Thanks Jack - I've noticed you dispensing wit and wisdom here. Anyone who quotes Bette Midler at me is OK with me!!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: aevkc on January 31, 2006, 11:46:53 AM
[
Quote

adopt, nothing, i was thinking of asking her if she wants to rescue a 62 year old gay man from a solitary life... maybe she could fix me  ;)

jack
Quote

Jack, I don't think you need fixing!  :)  By the way, my dad's been a friend of Bill W's for 20 years.  Good for you! 
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Carissa on January 31, 2006, 06:20:46 PM
I wasn't sure where to put this but I'm on another movie site for Lord of the Rings.  Every Monday, there is a thread about what movie you saw that weekend and reviews are encouraged too.  Here is a fellow forum member's review from there.
Quote
Subject:     Brokeback Mountain.   Ang Lee at his best.

Message:

A truely incredible film.  It's lovely to see Ang Lee back on form with this heart rending story.  The emotional intensity reminds me very much of Ice Storm and, in the same way, this movie gets under your skin.  I haven't been able to stop thinking about it since watching it last night.

I know Heath Ledger has had a deal of praise over his role as Ennis, but I think it takes two people to make this movie great and Jake Gyllenhaal is the perfect combination.  I think the passion between the two characters is so well played - it seems to teeter between love and frustration which causes playful banter to suddenly turn into violence - the tension between the two men is palpable.  It's so nice to see this level of sophistication and subtlety in a story.

Ang seems to bring an incredible sensuality to the movie but without being sentimental or slushy.  I also think the supporting cast are outstanding and the cinematography amazing too.  The splendor and joy of the mountains contrasting so beautifully with the dingy houses and sad existence of their everyday lives - each a perfect backdrop for the characters' frame of mind.

Sadly the people who SHOULD see this movie are exactly the ones who won't.  It really does offer such sympathy and understanding of two men who are torn apart by their sexuality, living in a world that does not accept who they are.

10 out of 10.  A must see.

http://www.theonering.net/rumour_mill/rpg/viewer/main/43DE4E7D000ED7EC.html
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: DFWRichNYC on January 31, 2006, 06:27:17 PM
UPDATE-
Got this e-mail this afternoon in response to above.

Dear Rick,
Yeah, I enjoyed seeing you too.  I just wish it hadn't been for such a short
time.
Well I'm exhausted after today.  I would have gone with you guys the other
night had I not had cramps so bad and felt like I did... you can't relate
(aren't you the lucky one!).  I don't have any problem with the movie, and
if Jerry does. that's his problem.  He doesn't always think for me, you
know.I've heard that it's really good, and would have taken Mom had you guys
not gone that night.  I thought I would suggest it to her after all the
moving commotion wore down and she was looking for things to do.
Rick, I don't care if you're gay, straight, bi or asexual...I'd still love
you for who you are.  And, in spite of what you might think, Jerry would be
the first person to defend you.  He's just pissed off at everything right
now, and I don't know why and frankly I'm a little sick of it.  Nothing
suits him...
Kim
P.S. Thanks for being such a great help to Mom... I know she appreciated it
very much, and I know it was putting up with a lot of drama. She won't gush
over you or anything (never seen her do that), but she does appreciate it.


It will be interesting to see if my sister and brother-in-law do eventually see BBM. I'll let you guys know. (I also have another sister Debbie who lives with her husband and son in Houston. I know better than to recommend the film to them)

Yay for the Academy award noms today!
R
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Tony on January 31, 2006, 07:29:56 PM
Just got back from a trip to Texas to see the family. My mom's moving into a new house and needed the help of me, my sister Kim and her husband Jerrry in order to get her things moved out.
Rick, this was your 4th post...and you blew me away.
You have a lot of courage to face your mom's unwillingness to understand you, your sister's cold shoulder and your brother in law's right-wing ignorance...
I wish someday you have more support from your family.
Remember there are tons of guys/gals that go thru the same situations.  I am sure you understand your family behavior. 
I wish you the best.  Take care
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: paintedshoes on January 31, 2006, 07:51:39 PM
This is my first time on this thread.  I found it after getting off the phone with a friend of over 25 years who has never understood my love of movies as a solace, a refuge, and just a good place to be.  She actually went to Brokeback with me (what a surprise), but still does not "get" it.  When I told her about this site and my love for all of the people here, the emotions that this film stir in all of us...she was worried that I was "losing it".  I found myself doing some fancy footwork (ugh, I hate that) in order to make her understand that my "obsession" as she put it, was merely (!) a vehicle to share something with like-minded people.  I had to remind her that she had loved her little theater work and the people involved in it because it was a shared passion.  But she still didn't totally get it.  I think we finally agreed to disagree.  I love her, but she has no part in this portion of my life.  But ok, I have all of you.  Thanks for being here.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: RolandC on January 31, 2006, 08:45:41 PM
Welcome to the thread, Miss Shoes :)

It's a foregone conclusion that not everyone who sees the film will "get it". There are some who will not even enter the theatre to see it, and as we have seen, there are some who chose to condemn it without seeing it too. I must admit that I was not reduced to tears by the film's end, but damn if it didn't get under my skin to the point that I think about it every day.

When James Cameron was interviewed for "Titanic," he made an astute observation that filmgoers tend to project themselves into the movie, asking themselves "What would I do if I were there?" I think about that more and more when it comes to BBM, and I'm sure I would not be far from wrong to say that if we could, we would project ourselves into that small and lonely trailer, hold Ennis tightly and assure him over and over that he is not alone, that he is loved.

I'm so glad that I 'got it'. :)
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Ranchgal on January 31, 2006, 08:59:05 PM
Well I just got the reaction from my brother---he and his girlfriend went this last weekend. They live down South in Arkansas.
First thing SHE said was she loved it but it depressed her.   And then she commented about a couple of couples that walked out at the beginning of the first tent scene.  We agreed it was too bad they were so intolerant, cause they missed a good movie.

Then I talked to him(I had told him to go and report back, when we were together at Christmas)
First he said he could actually see Ennis age, like old ranch hands do, and he was impressed.
(he is a detail person)  Then he commented on how the cimematography was so completely outstanding--he really thought it was filmed beautifully.   Then he said that he really appreciated all the small touches, the stuff in the trucks/ on the trailers/horses, and all the detailed stuff on the walls of the houses.  (We know and have a few just like them he remembers)
He said that he could appreciate the story, but didn't really care for the m/m scenes, even though we couldn't see anything anyway.  And he thought the story was a little predictable sometimes, but the whole concept was new enough so he could get something out of it and said it was pretty good, not something he would pay to see again, but wasn't sorry he saw it once.
Said it was alittle too sad/tragic for his main taste, felt too much like a tearjerker chickflick-at least he was honest, and looked for some things he could appreciate.

I have to appreciate the fact that he even went---younger brothers don't really listen to older sisters, even when we are both older now.    I harped on both of my brothers, and at least 1 went and took a date-can't ask for much more.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: terry on January 31, 2006, 09:05:32 PM
Miss Shoes, welcome aboard.  Also, don't feel bad that she didn't "get" it.  I think people like us are more in tune with the issues and how they can affect our lives, even indirectly.  I don't expect everyone I talk to at work to understand BBM.  I compare it to my Lord of the Rings obsession a couple of years back when the trilogy was in full swing.  I'm not sure if that's a good comparison but Rings brought my love of movies back that I haven't had since the Return of the Jedi back in 1983.  Now BBM has brought my appreciation of film making and that a movie doesn't need spectacular cgi effects to win an audience over.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: mary on January 31, 2006, 11:23:22 PM
I've had a picture from BBM hanging by my computer at work for a while.  It's brought a few people by to chat. Today one of my co workers brought me to tears.  She stopped by to ask if I'd seen the film and I smiled and answered that I had seen it a 'few' times. I think she was really looking for someone to talk with about it. 

She told me how close to home this film hit for her.  She lived in Texas for some time, working in oil. She had friends who were beaten up out side gay bars on several occasions.  Yet rather than telling folks what really happened - they insisted that they had been pumping up a tire and it exploded, rim hitting them in the face.

The minute I walked into work today she swung by with a big smile and said 'we got 8!'

I think we may go see it together soon.


Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: sunspot on January 31, 2006, 11:49:44 PM
She told me how close to home this film hit for her.  She lived in Texas for some time, working in oil. She had friends who were beaten up out side gay bars on several occasions.  Yet rather than telling folks what really happened - they insisted that they had been pumping up a tire and it exploded, rim hitting them in the face.

I continue to be amazed at how Prolux got so many of the details of her story right.  If I were a religious man, I'd assume divine inspiration.  As it is, I'll have to settle for "artists have their insights."
 
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: karind1 on February 01, 2006, 12:24:08 AM
i got this from someone i sold something to today--it is quite touching


Karin,

Thank you....My grandson took me to see the movie tonight and I think I know what he is getting at...and I still love him as I always have...he is and always will be a part of me.

Thank you,
Paul
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: lektronnorth on February 01, 2006, 12:36:38 AM
UPDATE-
Got this e-mail this afternoon in response to above.

Dear Rick,
Yeah, I enjoyed seeing you too.  I just wish it hadn't been for such a short
time.
Rick, I don't care if you're gay, straight, bi or asexual...I'd still love
you for who you are.  And, in spite of what you might think, Jerry would be
the first person to defend you.  He's just pissed off at everything right
now, and I don't know why and frankly I'm a little sick of it.  Nothing
suits him...
Kim
P.S. Thanks for being such a great help to Mom... I know she appreciated it
very much, and I know it was putting up with a lot of drama. She won't gush
over you or anything (never seen her do that), but she does appreciate it.


It will be interesting to see if my sister and brother-in-law do eventually see BBM. I'll let you guys know. (I also have another sister Debbie who lives with her husband and son in Houston. I know better than to recommend the film to them)

Yay for the Academy award noms today!
R


Rick, it sounds like I was a little harsh on your sister. I guess that's one of the better emails you'll ever get.
Hope you're feeling positive about things, I am at the moment.....
Roll on Mar 5th!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: DFWRichNYC on February 01, 2006, 12:29:19 PM
Now I've got to work on my gay friend T-J!

He refuses to see Brokeback because Heath and Jake aren't really gay and he thinks it's an insult.

Today I brought the film up- I griped about the talk show jokes saying:
"you'd think it was about a couple of chaps-wearing half-naked dudes snorting poppers in a port-o-toilet on the last day of the gay rodeo- but it's not"

to which he replied
"alas - this is the price we pay for letting a breeder write/direct and two breeders play the roles - sigh - anyway - there has got to be something more interesting to chat about then a second rate film and third rate talk show banters"

I raked him over the coals!! Does anybody else hear this kind of obstinate ignorance from other gay people?
 ???
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: karind1 on February 01, 2006, 12:38:30 PM
This is my first time on this thread.  I found it after getting off the phone with a friend of over 25 years who has never understood my love of movies as a solace, a refuge, and just a good place to be.  She actually went to Brokeback with me (what a surprise), but still does not "get" it.  When I told her about this site and my love for all of the people here, the emotions that this film stir in all of us...she was worried that I was "losing it".  I found myself doing some fancy footwork (ugh, I hate that) in order to make her understand that my "obsession" as she put it, was merely (!) a vehicle to share something with like-minded people.  I had to remind her that she had loved her little theater work and the people involved in it because it was a shared passion.  But she still didn't totally get it.  I think we finally agreed to disagree.  I love her, but she has no part in this portion of my life.  But ok, I have all of you.  Thanks for being here.

suggestion:  tell your "friend" like i told my "friend" that you are not hurting anyone and enjoying yourself.  after all, wasn't that the theme of the movie---live your own life for yourself.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Luckie Starchild on February 01, 2006, 12:44:38 PM
Now I've got to work on my gay friend Teej!

He refuses to see Brokeback because Heath and Jake aren't really gay and he thinks it's an insult.

Today I brought the film up- I griped about the talk show jokes saying:
"you'd think it was about a couple of chaps-wearing half-naked dudes snorting poppers in a port-o-toilet on the last day of the gay rodeo- but it's not"

to which he replied
"alas - this is the price we pay for letting a breeder write/direct and two breeders play the roles - sigh - anyway - there has got to be something more interesting to chat about then a second rate film and third rate talk show banters"

I raked him over the coals!! Does anybody else hear this kind of obstinate ignorance from other gay people?
 ???

Haven't heard anything quite like that... that really takes the cake!!!  No offense, but your friend has MAJOR ISSUES!!!  :P
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: gary49 on February 01, 2006, 12:44:57 PM
I viewed the movie in Tulsa, home of some pretty conservative people and yet, there were no silly reactions from the audience at least when I was there---or maybe it was that I was so entranced I didn't notice.  I had gone with my partner of nearly 12 years and after we left the theatre, there wasn't a word spoken by either of us until we were nearly home--I think the story was so masterful, compelling and heart-wrenching that neither of us could find the words to aptly describe our feelings at that moment.  It has been said by those much more articulate than me---"it was about love", not gay love or forbidden love---just about two people whose love came across so convincing that the word itself was never mentioned.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cyoung on February 01, 2006, 12:46:42 PM
to which he replied
"alas - this is the price we pay for letting a breeder write/direct and two breeders play the roles - sigh - anyway - there has got to be something more interesting to chat about then a second rate film and third rate talk show banters"

I raked him over the coals!! Does anybody else hear this kind of obstinate ignorance from other gay people?
 ???

*sigh* I've heard the "breeders" comment before and just get a sinking feeling in my gut whenever I hear straight people brushed off like that. One thing I will never understand is why people who have been prejudiced against their whole lives turn around and disparage other human beings in the same demeaning way it's been done to them.  :(

Sorry folks. I've been really touchy and grouchy here in the past few days; not exactly sure why.

Cara
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Lance on February 01, 2006, 12:51:45 PM
to which he replied
"alas - this is the price we pay for letting a breeder write/direct and two breeders play the roles - sigh - anyway - there has got to be something more interesting to chat about then a second rate film and third rate talk show banters"

sheesh. that sounds just like the Pat Robertson/Jerry Fallwell reactionaries who classify and pre-judge things without knowledge of actual content. if they know one thing about it, they think they know all about it.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: vertimus on February 01, 2006, 12:56:57 PM
Cara, I'm with you 100% on that.

 I've tried to epxress this here several times over the last several days.

Oppression can and does come from any and all individuals and groups, as we see in this example.

As a largely homosexual male. I'd enter into a friendship with a fair-minded heterosexual over one with an oppressive, fascistic homo-or-bisexual any day.

Homosexuals, bisexuals, and heterosexuals are all human, all vulnerable, all fallible, and no doubt share an equal capacity to do harm to others. What one does with that capacity is what's important, pivotal.

Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: mynamesclara on February 01, 2006, 02:18:06 PM
Hi Everybody!
I got to see the movie in Milan(yes...Italy)with my best friend...
Well I read the novel and already saw some parts of the movie around the internet just to get a general idea,as I usually do.

Since I'm a movie fanatic I always want everything to be perfect,so when I realized that some people were not even able to pronounce the title properly while requesting their tickets I started to get nervous....and thought that someone would eventually screw up my viewing....yes...I'm that fanatic...
Anyway..things went even worse while waiting for the movie to start... everybody was kind of over-exited, they talked too much, laughed out loud and things like that due to (in my opinion) a certain nervous energy....
At a certain point a Lady ,I think she was like 70y-o. shouted "right young boys,time to shut up,we have a movie to see..."...so everybody laughed and clapped hands at her!
Well done!

At this point,when the music started announcing the beginning of the movie,I had to (happily) eat my own words about doubting so much about the audience and taking them reactions for granted.
The theater was completely full and silent and everybody was staring at the screen,not even a sight till the scene when Mr Aguirre saw them with his binocular....at this point half people were so into the movie that they kept saying "noooo,don't look at them" or "oh shit,it happened,they got caught"...some laughter here and there, but it wasn't meant to be a mockery....you know what I mean...

Talking about the audience,I have to admit that It was the best one I have ever seen....in my quite short story of movies fanaticism...
It was so different from any ordinary movie,there were some gay both male and female couples,but mostly straight people in their 30s,I think my friend and I were among the youngest,we're both 25.
The thing that impressed me most was a group of aged people (70-78 years old)who seemed really touched by the movie and it was so cute to see how modern and open-minded some older people can be, some of us have still a lot to learn from them.

High points in terms of audience reaction:
-Aguirre scene
-Alma saw them kissing(here the audience, myself included, laughed nervously and I think everybody knows why,it has already been discussed here)
-Ennis' expression when he has to calm down his little daughters who kept crying like crazy was terrific,everybody was smiling cos you notice even more what he had left behind in BBM.
-Everything concerning that silly Jack Twist....
-Twist reaction with his Father- in -Law

Nobody was crying aloud at the end but there was an overwhelming feeling in the entire theatre,you know,remorse,sadness,pity.
Yes it's just a movie and we shouldn't overreact in silly ways but , like any other kind of movie, be it a masterpiece like this or an anime (just to name a category)if you read between the lines,you can learn extremely important lessons.
Sure that homosexuality is a center point in this movie but its deepest meanings are so universal that apply to anybody.

Oh well....and now the part I enjoy more...the critics...

I'm so so so disappointed about the italian version...God they did some lame changes...
1)They clean up all the dialogs...so forget..."sonofabitch" "fuck" and so on....."jack FUCKING twist" has turned into"Oooh I thought you'd never come" .....please....all the genuine expressions were changed,like Jack's "Yeeeehaaa"was turned into"Ohhh Ennis you're great"...ewww...there are many others but i can't remember all...
2)Ennis was far too poetic and polite....he seemed some guy from Beautiful.....(this was the worst).....They kind of adapted the movie for an Italian audience,but it wasn't really necessary...
3)Twist was a macho,the actor's real voice is closer to a young man,I mean pretty boyish....
4)They totally screwed up the whole "I wish i knew how to quit you" scene.....That was Ridge from Beautiful again....not some messed up sheep guardian with little education.....
5)You couldn't here the soundtrack....maybe it was the theater I dunno..but I could barely hear it....not the main theme but all the other songs.
6)ah yes even "I swear" was performed by Ridge....it wasn't natural like in english...and I say this, since Italians always do a wonderful job when it comes to double movies....So it was strange...

Well I doubt a lot of people saw the English version so without comparisons the movie was well received,so well that at the end everybody clapped hands for 30 seconds...

BTW this is an excellent forum,I'll keep reading your stories,I'm very impressed.

PS:Sorry for the mistakes and for not expressing with the right words what I really want to say but I'm so tired....and so Italian....
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: DFWRichNYC on February 01, 2006, 02:18:26 PM
I agree with everything I'm hearing. I haven't known T-J for long but it's becoming more and more clear what a close-minded jerk he can be. Straight people do not have the monopoly :-\
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cindy on February 01, 2006, 02:42:12 PM
But she still didn't totally get it.  I think we finally agreed to disagree.  I love her, but she has no part in this portion of my life.  But ok, I have all of you.  Thanks for being here.

hey missshoes: as others have said, we can all sympathize.  i took my husband and best friend to see the movie and was completely devastated when he thought it was "just okay." we actually got in a big fight about it, and things were pretty strained for a couple days. i took refuge in this forum and i saw the movie 3 more times with other friends and family (that makes 5 times total for me).  um, i think my husband only knows about 1 or 2 of the extra viewings.  ;)

i also wanted to tell everyone that i took my very conservative asian family to see brokeback in suburban new jersey and was pleasantly surprised by their reactions.  as background, let me say that i live with my husband in the castro area of san francisco (the gay neighborhood), and whenever my brother comes to visit, my super-conservative dad implores me to not let my brother "walk around alone on the streets...in case something should happen to him."  (like all the gay fumes will infect him or something.)  anyway, when i visited my family over the holidays, i persuaded them to go to brokeback as a nice family outing (hee hee), and my dad's reaction??!!  "i wasn't so comfortable with the...um...theme.  but it was a very good movie."  oh. my. god.  if there's hope for my dad, there's hope for everyone.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Tobysgirl on February 01, 2006, 03:07:30 PM
Maybe there have been a zillion stories like this already on here but my husband was talking to a co-worker who said her nephew, a college freshman, LOVES BbMt. And so do his male friends! And they're heterosexual. Perhaps there is hope for humanity.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Luckie Starchild on February 01, 2006, 03:13:44 PM
I agree with everything I'm hearing. I haven't known T-J for long but it's becoming more and more clear what a close-minded jerk he can be. Straight people do not have the monopoly :-\

He sounds really annoying... I think it's time to kick him to the curb!  :)
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: aevkc on February 01, 2006, 03:24:13 PM
Tobysgirl, maybe it's just my wishful thinking, but I think the with every generation it gets a little better.  I'm 35 and some of the straight guys I know, like my husband, loved BBM and some won't go see it.  But my 16year old cousin, who is female, has seen it twice and almost all of the straight guys in her high school class have seen it and it's not a big deal, they all loved it and there's no shame in admitting they saw it and loved it.  Perhaps I'm looking through rose colored glasses, but I have to believe we are evolving.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: killersmom on February 01, 2006, 03:38:36 PM
sheesh. that sounds just like the Pat Robertson/Jerry Fallwell reactionaries who classify and pre-judge things without knowledge of actual content. if they know one thing about it, they think they know all about it.
 

Hey Lance, thanks...this is my new quotable quote
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: WLAGuy on February 01, 2006, 04:39:04 PM
Hi Everybody!
I got to see the movie in Milan(yes...Italy)with my best friend...
Well I read the novel and already saw some parts of the movie around the internet just to get a general idea,as I usually do.

Since I'm a movie fanatic I always want everything to be perfect,so when I realized that some people were not even able to pronounce the title properly while requesting their tickets I started to get nervous....and thought that someone would eventually screw up my viewing....yes...I'm that fanatic...
Anyway..things went even worse while waiting for the movie to start... everybody was kind of over-exited, they talked too much, laughed out loud and things like that due to (in my opinion) a certain nervous energy....
At a certain point a Lady ,I think she was like 70y-o. shouted "right young boys,time to shut up,we have a movie to see..."...so everybody laughed and clapped hands at her!
Well done!

At this point,when the music started announcing the beginning of the movie,I had to (happily) eat my own words about doubting so much about the audience and taking them reactions for granted.
The theater was completely full and silent and everybody was staring at the screen,not even a sight till the scene when Mr Aguirre saw them with his binocular....at this point half people were so into the movie that they kept saying "noooo,don't look at them" or "oh shit,it happened,they got caught"...some laughter here and there, but it wasn't meant to be a mockery....you know what I mean...

Talking about the audience,I have to admit that It was the best one I have ever seen....in my quite short story of movies fanaticism...
It was so different from any ordinary movie,there were some gay both male and female couples,but mostly straight people in their 30s,I think my friend and I were among the youngest,we're both 25.
The thing that impressed me most was a group of aged people (70-78 years old)who seemed really touched by the movie and it was so cute to see how modern and open-minded some older people can be, some of us have still a lot to learn from them.

High points in terms of audience reaction:
-Aguirre scene
-Alma saw them kissing(here the audience, myself included, laughed nervously and I think everybody knows why,it has already been discussed here)
-Ennis' expression when he has to calm down his little daughters who kept crying like crazy was terrific,everybody was smiling cos you notice even more what he had left behind in BBM.
-Everything concerning that silly Jack Twist....
-Twist reaction with his Father- in -Law

Nobody was crying aloud at the end but there was an overwhelming feeling in the entire theatre,you know,remorse,sadness,pity.
Yes it's just a movie and we shouldn't overreact in silly ways but , like any other kind of movie, be it a masterpiece like this or an anime (just to name a category)if you read between the lines,you can learn extremely important lessons.
Sure that homosexuality is a center point in this movie but its deepest meanings are so universal that apply to anybody.

Oh well....and now the part I enjoy more...the critics...

I'm so so so disappointed about the italian version...God they did some lame changes...
1)They clean up all the dialogs...so forget..."sonofabitch" "fuck" and so on....."jack FUCKING twist" has turned into"Oooh I thought you'd never come" .....please....all the genuine expressions were changed,like Jack's "Yeeeehaaa"was turned into"Ohhh Ennis you're great"...ewww...there are many others but i can't remember all...
2)Ennis was far too poetic and polite....he seemed some guy from Beautiful.....(this was the worst).....They kind of adapted the movie for an Italian audience,but it wasn't really necessary...
3)Twist was a macho,the actor's real voice is closer to a young man,I mean pretty boyish....
4)They totally screwed up the whole "I wish i knew how to quit you" scene.....That was Ridge from Beautiful again....not some messed up sheep guardian with little education.....
5)You couldn't here the soundtrack....maybe it was the theater I dunno..but I could barely hear it....not the main theme but all the other songs.
6)ah yes even "I swear" was performed by Ridge....it wasn't natural like in english...and I say this, since Italians always do a wonderful job when it comes to double movies....So it was strange...

Well I doubt a lot of people saw the English version so without comparisons the movie was well received,so well that at the end everybody clapped hands for 30 seconds...

BTW this is an excellent forum,I'll keep reading your stories,I'm very impressed.

PS:Sorry for the mistakes and for not expressing with the right words what I really want to say but I'm so tired....and so Italian....

What a great report, Clara!  Thanks for posting it.  And your English is just fine (better than some Americans I know).  I had to laugh when you talked about them changing "Jack FUCKING Twist" into"Oooh I thought you'd never come."   :D
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: RolandC on February 01, 2006, 06:01:42 PM
I had to laugh when you talked about them changing "Jack FUCKING Twist" into"Oooh I thought you'd never come."   :D

Me too - somehow "Ooooh I thought you'd never come" has a smuttier undertone, doesn't it? ;)
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: WLAGuy on February 01, 2006, 06:05:52 PM

Me too - somehow "Ooooh I thought you'd never come" has a smuttier undertone, doesn't it? ;)

Yeah.  Right line, wrong scene.   :D
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: trinket on February 01, 2006, 06:25:07 PM


PS:Sorry for the mistakes and for not expressing with the right words what I really want to say but I'm so tired....and so Italian....

Oh my gosh, I so enjoyed your message!!!!!!!!  So interesting to read what is happening around the world like this....I am in USA...state of OHIO.  Is this a great world or what???
Keep posting clara!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: trinket on February 01, 2006, 06:31:51 PM
So I am thinking I should print up some shirts....mail them out to all you who live in different places.
We can sell them at the EXIT of movie theaters.
The shirts can say......'I watched Brokeback Mountain.....and SURVIVED!'
Here are some more ideas for our family and friends for shirts:
'Brokeback Mountain..experience it for yourself.'

Anyone want to add some shirt ideas?
Maybe I need to put this on a different thread.  I thought about reading THIS ONE though because of our family and friends reactions.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Dal on February 01, 2006, 07:33:46 PM
Tobysgirl, maybe it's just my wishful thinking, but I think the with every generation it gets a little better.  I'm 35 and some of the straight guys I know, like my husband, loved BBM and some won't go see it.  But my 16year old cousin, who is female, has seen it twice and almost all of the straight guys in her high school class have seen it and it's not a big deal, they all loved it and there's no shame in admitting they saw it and loved it.  Perhaps I'm looking through rose colored glasses, but I have to believe we are evolving.

That's amazing.  That might be true of a limited number of school in my area, but not, I believe, in working- or lower-class neighborhoods.  Might I ask, what is the "demographic" of your cousin's school?

Dal
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Uclapeterg on February 01, 2006, 07:34:05 PM

Me too - somehow "Ooooh I thought you'd never come" has a smuttier undertone, doesn't it? ;)

Yeah.  Right line, wrong scene.   :D

Yea, that should be said when they're at the motel.  ;)
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: aevkc on February 01, 2006, 07:44:26 PM
Dal, she goes to a private high school in Providence, Rhode Island.  So maybe she does live in a different environment from the majority of the world.  I don't know.  But I have to think positively about the world my two small children are going to grow up in or it just makes me too sad.  I was raised in a super-liberal family and so I know that skews my world view, but I still cannot believe how ignorant and just plain mean so many people my age and older are.  So I'm hoping it will only get better for each new generation.  Otherwise, what's the point?  What are we here for if not to learn?
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: paintedshoes on February 01, 2006, 09:30:27 PM
 we would project ourselves into that small and lonely trailer, hold Ennis tightly and assure him over and over that he is not alone, that he is loved.
I'm so glad that I 'got it'. :)
Quote
RolandC, I, too, wanted to hold Ennis and assure him.  Thank you for "getting it".
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: paintedshoes on February 01, 2006, 09:35:50 PM
Miss Shoes, welcome aboard.  Also, don't feel bad that she didn't "get" it.  I think people like us are more in tune with the issues and how they can affect our lives, even indirectly.  I don't expect everyone I talk to at work to understand BBM.  I compare it to my Lord of the Rings obsession a couple of years back when the trilogy was in full swing.  I'm not sure if that's a good comparison but Rings brought my love of movies back that I haven't had since the Return of the Jedi back in 1983.  Now BBM has brought my appreciation of film making and that a movie doesn't need spectacular cgi effects to win an audience over.
Terry, you too, LOTR?  I watched FOTR 11 times in the theater, TT 12, and ROTK 13 times. My friends thought I was really nuts about that.  But it wasn't the special effects, it was the honest emotion and love among the characters. Something that my friends didn't get then either.  Thank you for understanding.  I thought then that LOTR would be my favorite film(s) ever... til Brokeback.  There is no comparison, is there?
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Pug on February 01, 2006, 09:41:49 PM
A wee but OT but I read at the IMDB that the sheep had to be increased with CGI to increase their numbers and the sky had to be modified.

This film does not let go of me. I am always thinking about it. I believe this film will maintain this tidal wave of emotional response for many years to come.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: paintedshoes on February 01, 2006, 09:46:41 PM
suggestion:  tell your "friend" like i told my "friend" that you are not hurting anyone and enjoying yourself.  after all, wasn't that the theme of the movie---live your own life for yourself.
Quote
Thank you, karind1 for the reminder.  I do need to live my life for myself.  People who do not understand are the poorer for it.
I'd like to take the opportunity to say thank you to you for your terrific performance in "Imitation of Life".  I love that film, always have.  Your "Sarah Jane" as a child was heartbreaking to me as a child.  I grew up in a blue collar home in Seattle in the 50's.  We weren't supposed to identify with children such as Sarah Jane.  I didn't even know an African-American person til I joined the Air Force.  But every time I watched that movie, my heart broke for your character, as portrayed by you and Susan Kohner (as the grown-up Sarah Jane).  Bless you for providing the world with such an indelible portrait of a suffering child.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Tony on February 01, 2006, 09:46:42 PM
BTW this is an excellent forum,I'll keep reading your stories,I'm very impressed.

PS:Sorry for the mistakes and for not expressing with the right words what I really want to say but I'm so tired....and so Italian....
I was very impressed by your complete recap!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: brokebackLJ on February 01, 2006, 10:05:10 PM
Dal, she goes to a private high school in Providence, Rhode Island.  So maybe she does live in a different environment from the majority of the world.  I don't know.  But I have to think positively about the world my two small children are going to grow up in or it just makes me too sad.  I was raised in a super-liberal family and so I know that skews my world view, but I still cannot believe how ignorant and just plain mean so many people my age and older are.  So I'm hoping it will only get better for each new generation.  Otherwise, what's the point?  What are we here for if not to learn?

I'm originally from Rhode Island. Which school? Lasalle?
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: BillN on February 01, 2006, 10:08:48 PM
BTW this is an excellent forum,I'll keep reading your stories,I'm very impressed.

PS:Sorry for the mistakes and for not expressing with the right words what I really want to say but I'm so tired....and so Italian....
I was very impressed by your complete recap!

Clara, welcome and I enjoyed your post. We seem to be getting more people from your area of the world as the movie opens up in new places and it is great to hear the favorable reactions. You might find us to be a little over the top in loving BBM, but you will be among friends while here.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Carissa on February 01, 2006, 10:47:17 PM
Terry, you too, LOTR?  I watched FOTR 11 times in the theater, TT 12, and ROTK 13 times. My friends thought I was really nuts about that.  But it wasn't the special effects, it was the honest emotion and love among the characters. Something that my friends didn't get then either.  Thank you for understanding.  I thought then that LOTR would be my favorite film(s) ever... til Brokeback.  There is no comparison, is there?
Count me in too! ;)  Excellent description of the true LOTR, love, loyalty and friendship.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: mynamesclara on February 02, 2006, 07:42:07 AM

Me too - somehow "Ooooh I thought you'd never come" has a smuttier undertone, doesn't it? ;)

Yeah.  Right line, wrong scene.   :D

Oh man....I didn't even think about the "other" meaning of that sentence... 8)..but I swear he said that! :D

Anyway... Thanks everybody for the kind words! I really appreciated it!

Btw:I have some friends (both straight and gay) who told me the movie sucked(but really bad)...Is it possible?!Can someone help them or something?hehehe....
Seriously I know they're smart guys and not stupid at all....but is it possible to really laught at a movie like this?and dislike it so much?I don't get it...
I'm jealous of my own tastes in general,but since I suggested them to go and see it I felt irritated and a bit hurt...
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: aevkc on February 02, 2006, 08:08:14 AM
Brokeback LJ, she goes to Moses Brown. 
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: graylockV on February 02, 2006, 08:23:19 AM

Me too - somehow "Ooooh I thought you'd never come" has a smuttier undertone, doesn't it? ;)

Yeah.  Right line, wrong scene.   :D

Oh man....I didn't even think about the "other" meaning of that sentence... 8)..but I swear he said that! :D

Anyway... Thanks everybody for the kind words! I really appreciated it!

Btw:I have some friends (both straight and gay) who told me the movie sucked(but really bad)...Is it possible?!Can someone help them or something?hehehe....
Seriously I know they're smart guys and not stupid at all....but is it possible to really laught at a movie like this?and dislike it so much?I don't get it...
I'm jealous of my own tastes in general,but since I suggested them to go and see it I felt irritated and a bit hurt...


Hello Clara.

Many people do not like films that are too real.  They prefer fantasy films - escapism.  There is nothing wrong with that per se.  Brokeback Mountain requires the audience to FEEL something for the characters and their situation.  It is difficult for some people to identify with loss and tragedy, especially, but not necessarily, because the characters in Brokeback are in a same-sex relationship.  Finally, because it is essentially a film with a simple plot and a tremendous amount of character focus, BBM tells its story at a slow pace.  In the first 30 minutes we are watching two men falling in love.  The story requires that their relationship develop in a realistic way, so the pace is slow.  Some viewers want things to happen too fast.

The producer (Diana Ossana) and director (Ang Lee) have both stated in interviews that BBM is not a movie that everyone will appreciate.

So I would not be too upset with those people who just don't "get it."

Thank you for your wonderful post about reaction in Italy.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: mynamesclara on February 02, 2006, 11:03:16 AM
Thank you very much!

Yes you get the point,I second everything you've said.
I'm not really upset with them, it just came as a surprise because they're people who has no issues at all with homosexuality being (some of them)gay themselves,or very open minded guys, it's just that they focused only on the technical aspect of the movie....it was too slow,I didn't like the actor, dialogs were stupid,their make-up and so on...and didn't even mention the inner meanings, but this is just a way to get to know better the people you hung out with.

When my mum talks about the movie(she's 60),and she laughs a bit nervously and says ...ah the movie of those "good-looking" guys, well I can understand that and there are no problems.
But when this silly humor comes from young,smart people it makes me wonder.... not cos they didn't like the movie, which I couldn't care less,but because they avoided a more serious dialog that a movie like this can offer...

So  I also realize how difficult it must be for those who REALLY suffer because they have to deal with parents,friends,or relatives who are completely unprepared to deal with their personal choices which are not necessarily related to their sexuality.

Luckily I just have to deal with some friends with awful tastes.....(joking)...
 ;)
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: clarabell on February 02, 2006, 11:09:03 AM
Mynamesclara,

I am interested if people who initially didn't like the movie, later on change their minds or find that they continue to think about it over time.  How the movie slowly unfolds in my head has been key.  Has anyone heard that people change their minds as they continue to think about BBM?
Clarabell ???
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Luckie Starchild on February 02, 2006, 11:18:48 AM
Brokeback LJ, she goes to Moses Brown. 

Moses Brown is Quaker so it makes sense to me that they would tend to be open-minded.  (I'm from Providence too.)
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Luckie Starchild on February 02, 2006, 11:25:34 AM
I'd like to take the opportunity to say thank you to you for your terrific performance in "Imitation of Life".  I love that film, always have.  Your "Sarah Jane" as a child was heartbreaking to me as a child.  I grew up in a blue collar home in Seattle in the 50's.  We weren't supposed to identify with children such as Sarah Jane.  I didn't even know an African-American person til I joined the Air Force.  But every time I watched that movie, my heart broke for your character, as portrayed by you and Susan Kohner (as the grown-up Sarah Jane).  Bless you for providing the world with such an indelible portrait of a suffering child.

The person who played Sarah Jane as a child in "Imitation of Life" is here?  :o  OMG, I love that movie... it's probably my second favorite film (after BBM)!!!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: mynamesclara on February 02, 2006, 12:11:37 PM
Mynamesclara,

I am interested if people who initially didn't like the movie, later on change their minds or find that they continue to think about it over time.  How the movie slowly unfolds in my head has been key.  Has anyone heard that people change their minds as they continue to think about BBM?
Clarabell ???

Oh well not the ones I know....they still call it "pathetic"....but...at a certain point,who cares!We don't have to convince anybody...
 ;)
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Pug on February 02, 2006, 06:23:41 PM
Quote
The person who played Sarah Jane as a child in "Imitation of Life" is here?    OMG, I love that movie... it's probably my second favorite film (after BBM)!!!
 
 

I definitely love the Douglas Sirk re-make of "Imitation of Life." great film...I have the DVD. This is another highly emotionally charged film that at the time took a very strong stand bringing prejudice into the forfront. It is a wonderful movie with spellbinding performances.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: paintedshoes on February 02, 2006, 06:28:07 PM
I'd like to take the opportunity to say thank you to you for your terrific performance in "Imitation of Life".  I love that film, always have.  Your "Sarah Jane" as a child was heartbreaking to me as a child.  I grew up in a blue collar home in Seattle in the 50's.  We weren't supposed to identify with children such as Sarah Jane.  I didn't even know an African-American person til I joined the Air Force.  But every time I watched that movie, my heart broke for your character, as portrayed by you and Susan Kohner (as the grown-up Sarah Jane).  Bless you for providing the world with such an indelible portrait of a suffering child.

The person who played Sarah Jane as a child in "Imitation of Life" is here?  :o  OMG, I love that movie... it's probably my second favorite film (after BBM)!!!
She posts as karind1.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Kealiikoa on February 02, 2006, 08:02:56 PM
[(I'm from Providence too.)
Quote

Me too..Aloha!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: sai on February 02, 2006, 09:03:37 PM
The following is taken from a Taiwanese blog. http://blog.chinatimes.com/taweichi/archive/2006/01/22/35807.html


My father-in-law is 72 years old and he is originally from Montana. He was kind of a cowboy when he was in his teenage back in Montana....they had to work in the farm and herd the sheeps. Anyway, I had wanted to know if he's willing to see this movie and what his reachtion would be. So i asked him: "would you like to see Brokeback mountain, a very controversial cowboy gay movie?" To my surprise, he said: "I'd love to see it. I read the book two three years ago, it's a an unforgettable story." My mother-in-law was cracking and said:"Kiddo, we are far more advanced than you think." :-) So on the Christmas night we went out and saw it. They loved the movie. The old cowboy came out of the theather and said: "How can a Chinese [from Taiwan] know the West so well." He loved the detail shots Ang Lee used to portrait the environment.

Anyway, just a little story to share with everybody. Ciao.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Tony on February 02, 2006, 11:58:29 PM
The following is taken from a Taiwanese blog. http://blog.chinatimes.com/taweichi/archive/2006/01/22/35807.html


My father-in-law is 72 years old and he is originally from Montana. He was kind of a cowboy when he was in his teenage back in Montana....they had to work in the farm and herd the sheeps. Anyway, I had wanted to know if he's willing to see this movie and what his reachtion would be. So i asked him: "would you like to see Brokeback mountain, a very controversial cowboy gay movie?" To my surprise, he said: "I'd love to see it. I read the book two three years ago, it's a an unforgettable story." My mother-in-law was cracking and said:"Kiddo, we are far more advanced than you think." :-) So on the Christmas night we went out and saw it. They loved the movie. The old cowboy came out of the theather and said: "How can a Chinese [from Taiwan] know the West so well." He loved the detail shots Ang Lee used to portrait the environment.

Anyway, just a little story to share with everybody. Ciao.
WOW... 72 years old????  "We are far more advanced of thankyou think"????  "How can.... so well"
I am SO impressed by your post.  You are SO lucky to have In-laws that are SO cool and so wise!
You put a big smile on my face!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: vertimus on February 03, 2006, 08:18:53 AM
My 80-year old Italian mother also asked me to take her to see it, and she doesn't leave the house for hardly anything.

When I was a boy, the Catholic Church, via the Catholic school where she taught school (and where I attended) tried to indocrintate her with a lot of crazy anti-homosexual stuff (which came out of 'speical programs'), like "don't let your boys play with anyone even a year older, since younger boys are typically preyed upon by older boys homosexually," etc. Since my mother grew up in the 30s and 40s, she also knew all about the social prohibitions against it.

Then my mother came home and told me all of that, as she was asked too. Which didn't make me too comfortable, even then, when I had no idea even about the facts of life.

However, once I told her about myself when I was about 18, she accepted it completely. She probably had an inkling, as mothers and fathers sometimes do. Since then, she's met and befriended my boyfriends. Last Christmas, we had Christmas dinner over one of my old boyfriend's house, which he shares with his present partner.

Anyway, she liked BBM very much, had a hard time hearing a few of the lines, and has been telling me ever since about every mention of it she hears on television.

She also called up my aunt, who is a nun, and told her to go see it. My aunt said she's like to, and also knows which other nuns would enjoy it and accept it, and which probably not.

Bravo for the older generation.

 
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: KathyinBama on February 03, 2006, 08:22:49 AM
Yes, bravo to the older generation!  My 73-year-old mother surprised me by seeing and loving it!  She is a conservative Republican and I was pleasantly surprised that she would turn off Fox News and go make up her own mind.  She went with my 82-year-old aunt who also thought BBM a great film. 
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Tobysgirl on February 03, 2006, 08:24:43 AM
*sigh* I've heard the "breeders" comment before and just get a sinking feeling in my gut whenever I hear straight people brushed off like that. One thing I will never understand is why people who have been prejudiced against their whole lives turn around and disparage other human beings in the same demeaning way it's been done to them.  :(

Sorry folks. I've been really touchy and grouchy here in the past few days; not exactly sure why.

Cara

We were just talking about this yesterday while picking up horse poop. I have a friend who was raised Southern Baptist and I know she still doesn't love her lesbian self. And coming from that hate-filled space, she says ignorant things about people of other colors and religions. How can we expect people who have been taught to hate themselves to be loving, gentle, open people? Yeah, sometmes people who have been through the worst shit are all those good things, but when you have either been told directly you are worthless or indirectly that "those people" (who you find yourself to be one of) are worthless, why wouldn't you lash out at breeders, or whoever? To me, this man is telling me more about how he feels about himself than about straight people. It's just sad that his close-mindedness prevents him from seeing the single most powerful film I've experienced in my entire life.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: vertimus on February 03, 2006, 08:26:25 AM
KathyinBama, great to hear.

It just goes towards proving that many, perhaps most, people are neither as hard, callous, and unloving as we sometimes think, but also speaks powerfully about how touching and universal BBM is.

So far, personally, I don't know anyone who hasn't liked it.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Chris on February 03, 2006, 11:15:34 AM
[quote My father-in-law is 72 years old and he is originally from Montana. He was kind of a cowboy when he was in his teenage back in Montana....they had to work in the farm and herd the sheeps. Anyway, I had wanted to know if he's willing to see this movie and what his reachtion would be. So i asked him: "would you like to see Brokeback mountain, a very controversial cowboy gay movie?" To my surprise, he said: "I'd love to see it. I read the book two three years ago, it's a an unforgettable story." My mother-in-law was cracking and said:"Kiddo, we are far more advanced than you think." :-) So on the Christmas night we went out and saw it. They loved the movie. The old cowboy came out of the theather and said: "How can a Chinese [from Taiwan] know the West so well." He loved the detail shots Ang Lee used to portrait the environment.

Anyway, just a little story to share with everybody. Ciao.
Quote

Please give your in-laws a hug for me.  This is a great thread - there is hope in the world yet from the many comments.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Luckie Starchild on February 03, 2006, 11:34:41 AM
I'd like to take the opportunity to say thank you to you for your terrific performance in "Imitation of Life".  I love that film, always have.  Your "Sarah Jane" as a child was heartbreaking to me as a child.  I grew up in a blue collar home in Seattle in the 50's.  We weren't supposed to identify with children such as Sarah Jane.  I didn't even know an African-American person til I joined the Air Force.  But every time I watched that movie, my heart broke for your character, as portrayed by you and Susan Kohner (as the grown-up Sarah Jane).  Bless you for providing the world with such an indelible portrait of a suffering child.

The person who played Sarah Jane as a child in "Imitation of Life" is here?  :o  OMG, I love that movie... it's probably my second favorite film (after BBM)!!!
She posts as karind1.

Thanks!  This is TOO COOL for words!!!  8)
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: jack on February 03, 2006, 04:45:47 PM
[(I'm from Providence too.)
Quote

Me too..Aloha!

apparently a rhode island reunion is in the offing.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: WLAGuy on February 03, 2006, 06:14:37 PM
*sigh* I've heard the "breeders" comment before and just get a sinking feeling in my gut whenever I hear straight people brushed off like that. One thing I will never understand is why people who have been prejudiced against their whole lives turn around and disparage other human beings in the same demeaning way it's been done to them.  :(

Sorry folks. I've been really touchy and grouchy here in the past few days; not exactly sure why.

Cara

From what I've seen, it's used to give straight people the chance to feel what it's like to be ridiculed for their sexuality (and it's usually straight, white males, who go through life insulated from any kind of racial or sexual slurs).  An ex-roommate of mine used it 20 years ago in San Francisco when a straight guy getting off a bus called him a faggot for no reason.  Without missing a beat, my roommate called him a breeder.  He later told me the guy's jaw dropped, he was so surprised. 
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: rmbahr on February 03, 2006, 07:49:02 PM
I am soooooooo frustrated!!!! I didnt know where else to turn!!!  I have NEVER posted anything on a website in my life!!!  I am a midwestern straight married woman who has been married for almost 17 years and have 2 children under the age of 7.  I LOVE my husband immensely and LOVE being a mom!  I went to see this movie after seeing the Oprah show on Friday.  I was so touched!  I really cant put my finger on it but I was in a spell thinking about this INCREDIBLE movie and have not been the same!  I saw it with my cousin who enjoyed the movie but had a hard time with the man-man relationship...however, she cried at the end and saw my "funk" that I fell into and calls me several times everyday.

I then had my other cousin wondering what was up with me and I moved MOUNTAINS to go see the movie with her on Tuesday.  She related to my feelings but not to the extreme!!  I then went and bought the book and soundtrack on Thursday and cant stop!!!  Today one of my best friends called me and wanted to go so.....she twisted my arm :) and I went!  I cant get enough!!! 

Keep in mind that I am not the kind of person to OBSESS about anything!  I rarely cry at movies and NEVER see a movie more than once...let alone 3 times in less than a week!  I cant figure it out but I have little appetite (dont worry..I'm overweight by 75 lbs :)) I find myself either crying or smiling and not much in between!  I posted this on this link because I have been scanning them all week and I guess I just feel like you guys are the only ones that can really understand what I am feeling...what is it?  What should I do??? Is something wrong with me?? :'(

Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: WLAGuy on February 03, 2006, 08:15:24 PM
I am soooooooo frustrated!!!! I didnt know where else to turn!!!  I have NEVER posted anything on a website in my life!!!  I am a midwestern straight married woman who has been married for almost 17 years and have 2 children under the age of 7.  I LOVE my husband immensely and LOVE being a mom!  I went to see this movie after seeing the Oprah show on Friday.  I was so touched!  I really cant put my finger on it but I was in a spell thinking about this INCREDIBLE movie and have not been the same!  I saw it with my cousin who enjoyed the movie but had a hard time with the man-man relationship...however, she cried at the end and saw my "funk" that I fell into and calls me several times everyday.

I then had my other cousin wondering what was up with me and I moved MOUNTAINS to go see the movie with her on Tuesday.  She related to my feelings but not to the extreme!!  I then went and bought the book and soundtrack on Thursday and cant stop!!!  Today one of my best friends called me and wanted to go so.....she twisted my arm :) and I went!  I cant get enough!!! 

Keep in mind that I am not the kind of person to OBSESS about anything!  I rarely cry at movies and NEVER see a movie more than once...let alone 3 times in less than a week!  I cant figure it out but I have little appetite (dont worry..I'm overweight by 75 lbs :)) I find myself either crying or smiling and not much in between!  I posted this on this link because I have been scanning them all week and I guess I just feel like you guys are the only ones that can really understand what I am feeling...what is it?  What should I do??? Is something wrong with me?? :'(


I don't think anything is wrong with you in the ordinary sense of the word, rmbahr, but my guess is that (like the rest of us) BBM struck a nerve deep in you that you probably weren't even aware of.  After reading hundreds of posts, and knowing what I've been experiencing myself since I saw the movie, I think I'm beginning to see a pattern emerge.  BBM seems to hit particularly hard with those of us who have long-buried issues with loss, loneliness, or wondering whether we made the "right" choices for the wrong reasons.  And because both the story and the movie touch on so many tangentially related issues, the three I mentioned are really just the tip of the iceberg.  I think it also speaks to people who have issues with family, violence, self-respect, unrequited love, lost opportunities -- and these are just off the top of my head.  None of these may apply to you, but there's something in you that has responded to this movie, and this is an opportunity for you to figure out what that is and deal with it at this time in your life.  And don't feel shy about sharing on this board -- there are a lot of wonderful people posting here, and I think you'll find we're good listeners.  Welcome!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Tony on February 03, 2006, 08:18:44 PM
I am soooooooo frustrated!!!! I didnt know where else to turn!!!  I have NEVER posted anything on a website in my life!!!  I am a midwestern straight married woman who has been married for almost 17 years and have 2 children under the age of 7.  I LOVE my husband immensely and LOVE being a mom!  I went to see this movie after seeing the Oprah show on Friday.  I was so touched!  I really cant put my finger on it but I was in a spell thinking about this INCREDIBLE movie and have not been the same!  I saw it with my cousin who enjoyed the movie but had a hard time with the man-man relationship...however, she cried at the end and saw my "funk" that I fell into and calls me several times everyday.

I then had my other cousin wondering what was up with me and I moved MOUNTAINS to go see the movie with her on Tuesday.  She related to my feelings but not to the extreme!!  I then went and bought the book and soundtrack on Thursday and cant stop!!!  Today one of my best friends called me and wanted to go so.....she twisted my arm :) and I went!  I cant get enough!!! 

Keep in mind that I am not the kind of person to OBSESS about anything!  I rarely cry at movies and NEVER see a movie more than once...let alone 3 times in less than a week!  I cant figure it out but I have little appetite (dont worry..I'm overweight by 75 lbs :)) I find myself either crying or smiling and not much in between!  I posted this on this link because I have been scanning them all week and I guess I just feel like you guys are the only ones that can really understand what I am feeling...what is it?  What should I do??? Is something wrong with me?? :'(
First, welcome to the BBM family.  It is a huge family created by Dave Cullen.  Here you will find love, understanding, acceptance, fun, anything related to our BMM, the masterpiece that not eveybody wants to give a chance.
Like you , many more people have stated that this movie changed their lives, the way they see life.
Finally, I can tell you are a lady with feelings and a BIG heart.  Keep it like that...
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: rmbahr on February 03, 2006, 08:27:52 PM
Thanks tony and wlaguy!!!  You made me CRY!!!  I have a friend who is gay and a friend who is a lesbian and both tried to fight it for most of their livesso I think thats why I can understand!  Most of the people in my area do not feel this way and that is unfortunate!  People are the way they are and thats it!!!! We live in a free country and you should be able to make your own choices and be HAPPY with those choices!!  Can you beleive that this movie just opened in theaters near me TODAY!!!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: mary on February 03, 2006, 08:34:16 PM
BBM seems to hit particularly hard with those of us who have long-buried issues with loss, loneliness, or wondering whether we made the "right" choices for the wrong reasons.  And because both the story and the movie touch on so many tangentially related issues, the three I mentioned are really just the tip of the iceberg.  I think it also speaks to people who have issues with family, violence, self-respect, unrequited love, lost opportunities -- and these are just off the top of my head.  None of these may apply to you, but there's something in you that has responded to this movie, and this is an opportunity for you to figure out what that is and deal with it at this time in your life.  And don't feel shy about sharing on this board -- there are a lot of wonderful people posting here, and I think you'll find we're good listeners.  Welcome!

WLAGuy
I think you are spot on (Bolding is mine) but I think at least in my case there is more since I wonder - is there anyone who doesn't have some of those issues?  I don't know if I've met them. 
For me this film also came at a time in my life when I was already giving some of these issues a lot of thought - and this film and story fed right into my thought process. I'm middle aged (and I can't tell you how hard it was to type that) my child is getting more independant, I'm established in my career and to paraphrase Annie's words I am no longer a young women with all of it before me.  Yet I still have choices to make and places to go. 
 I expect with some folks it is also going to churn up things they've been trying not to think about

And on top of that a beautiful tragic love story, well it just holds onto my heart.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cyoung on February 03, 2006, 08:53:27 PM
BBM seems to hit particularly hard with those of us who have long-buried issues with loss, loneliness, or wondering whether we made the "right" choices for the wrong reasons. 

I think you're right on target.

Cara
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cyoung on February 03, 2006, 08:59:07 PM
From what I've seen, it's used to give straight people the chance to feel what it's like to be ridiculed for their sexuality (and it's usually straight, white males, who go through life insulated from any kind of racial or sexual slurs).  An ex-roommate of mine used it 20 years ago in San Francisco when a straight guy getting off a bus called him a faggot for no reason.  Without missing a beat, my roommate called him a breeder.  He later told me the guy's jaw dropped, he was so surprised. 

*sigh* Well, I can understand your ex-roommate's lashing out.

The "breeder" label turns my stomach partly because women have through the centuries been reduced to their biology, as if the only thing they're good for is baby-making.

Cara
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Tim on February 03, 2006, 09:07:23 PM
Quote
BBM seems to hit particularly hard with those of us who have long-buried issues with loss, loneliness, or wondering whether we made the "right" choices for the wrong reasons.

One thing I have learned in life, no one makes any choices for the purest of reasons. That is the beauty and tragedy of our humanity.  That rings so true in this movie too I think.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: WLAGuy on February 03, 2006, 09:13:39 PM
*sigh* Well, I can understand your ex-roommate's lashing out.

The "breeder" label turns my stomach partly because women have through the centuries been reduced to their biology, as if the only thing they're good for is baby-making.

Cara

If it's any consolation, somehow calling someone a name like that doesn't feel quite as good as you think it would (at least I assume straight guys who go around calling gay men "faggot" do it because it makes them feel good to know they are hurting someone else's feelings, or at least makes them feel better about themselves). 
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: paintedshoes on February 03, 2006, 09:18:41 PM
[quote author=rmbahr link=topic=152.msg33293#msg33293 date=113902134

Keep in mind that I am not the kind of person to OBSESS about anything!  I rarely cry at movies and NEVER see a movie more than once...let alone 3 times in less than a week!  I cant figure it out but I have little appetite (dont worry..I'm overweight by 75 lbs :)) I find myself either crying or smiling and not much in between!  I posted this on this link because I have been scanning them all week and I guess I just feel like you guys are the only ones that can really understand what I am feeling...what is it?  What should I do??? Is something wrong with me?? :'(
Quote
rmbahr...welcome to the best place in the world.  First, there is nothing wrong with you.  There is something RIGHT with you, because you have, like all of us here, opened yourself up to an experience that is new and frightening to you and you are (by crying out here) admitting that you are willing to deal with it.  As WLAGuy, Mary and Tony stated, everyone deals with issues of loss, loneliness, longing.  This film peals away our protective layers and exposes those truths that we have buried somewhere deep in our souls.  Not everyone wants to do it.  They run away, hide behind laughter, snears or indifference.  It takes a strong person to accept that some kind of fundamental shift has occured in our being.  A movie, a story, did this?  How can that be?  For me, Ennis and Jack have become the vessels into which I can pour the pain, the joys, the LIFE that I can admit I feel.  And isn't that what we all want?  To feel?  To acknowledge that we feel, for ourselves, for others, for the whole damn, stinking , rotten, glorious , wonderful world of humanity.
Bring yourself here.  Don't worry, we are all here to help, love and understand with you.  I love it here in this community.  So will you.  Welcome.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: DFWRichNYC on February 03, 2006, 10:43:06 PM
Welcome RMBahr!

I get this feeling sometimes that Brokeback has become an obsession for me just cause it's so damn good and so damn important. I'm gonna sit here and type until I explain this obsession to myself. I'll also need to post this over at 'How Brokeback Effected me"

I haven't seen any movie more than 3 times in the cinema since I was 8 and Star Wars came out!

I can understand being a kid (or and adult- I STILL consider myself a SW geek) and wanting to get lost in that universe time and time again- black and white moral issues, heroic deeds, monsters and robots!  What's not to like? But why would adults want to get lost in the Brokeback Universe?

The BB-Verse has no robots or lightsabers. It has no absolute black and white moral code. It's not stylized or gussied up with special effects. It's not sexy enough to be porn and not violent enough to be an action movie (thought it has sex and violence to be sure). It's not a particularly Romantic universe either, truth be told. There's very little in the way of candlelight and blowing curtains, no castles or maidens, roses or poetry. The BB-verse is prosaic, naturalistic, ordinary. Trailers and laundramats and dust. Aside from our leads, most of the people in the BB-verse are wrinkled, care-worn, dessicated even.

So why in hell would you want to return to that place? Why in hell would you want to go back to Ennis' and Jack's piss-poor excuse for a life?

Because it is a life on that screen. Two real lives with real people going through real things. The BB-verse is a condensed, heightened, super-charged version of what life is actually like. Ennis and Jack are revealed to us more thoroughly and to a greater depth, I think, then any other characters i can remember seeing in any film I've ever watched. I see BBM, and I feel like I know what Jack eats for breakfast and how many holes he has in his sock on a Sunday. I feel like I know Ennis' girls and what life is like in Alma and Munroe's house. I feel like I am on an intimate first-name basis with everyone in the film. How is that possible? Because every bit that I'm shown is psychologically true. Every few seconds I go AHA! as i catch some new nuance and i recognize where it comes from. And, since the cores are presented in full I "know" much more about them by simple extrapolation.

I don't believe in Naturalism, per se- in the idea that a great film is one that shows every little mundane detail. I'm a Romantic in the sense that I believe what's shown on the screen should add up to a sum, a theme, a message- that art must add up in a way that life never does. Give me a vision of what is possible not a mere report of what is.

BBM does have a vision, a message AND YET it's completely honest / naturalistic.

I'm not making myself clear enough...

Brokeback finds the heroism in simply breathing, surviving and being human.

No, not exact enough...

Brokeback feels to me as if I'm watching a documentary that just happens to add up to a profound human truth. It feels to true to be merely a film (with all that implies- scripted lines, posed shots, etc), and yet it is too rich with thematic meaning to ever be taken for accidental, arbitrary real life.

Perhaps even... maybe this explains it.
I have become an Ennis as I've gotten older. Repressed, cut off, alone inside my own head with a wall up that I hardly realize is there anymore. When I go to see BBM, it feels like I'm leafing through an album showing how i got to where I am- a progression from glorious youth and optimism to this ever-more constricted emotional life. As i return again and again to this album, each time I feel like I catch a glimpse of something- some error I made- some small concession to fear or social pressure- that set me on the path to where i am. Glimpsing it gives me hope- because I can only undo the emotional knots I've tied within myself if I can trace their origin. In a sense, the BB-verse is a superb dramatization of the process by which a human soul becomes repressed. So If you have any repression within yourself, you can step into the shoes of Jack and Ennis and - sharing their young optimistic love- find the shadow of whatever heartache is burning you up inside, glimpse the error that drove you to lock it away, and perhaps slip the knots of hurt, shame, fear or regret and become your authentic self once more.

I think THAT, ultimately, is why I'm obsessed. Brokeback is loosening something in my soul somewhere; some hidden love of life and willingness to love that wants to be rediscovered and reclaimed.


Or maybe it's just the hot boys kissin'...  :-*
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Jermaine P on February 04, 2006, 01:50:39 AM
Well I went to see it with my mum at the only cinema screening it for the entire Gold Coast on opening day here in Australia. The audience was a few gay couples, quite a few older people and some seeing it on their own (theatre was near packed). The reaction was quite good (the Gold Coast area is a fairly tolerant place unlike my little home town here) so piece by piece:

Laughter at Jack playing up by parodyin a rodeo cowboy in front of Ennis before falling into the tent.
Laughter at the thanksgiving scene (tv on, tv off, tv on...)

But apart from that it was just silence, total complete silence.....towards the end was people quietly blowing noses (me included)
I thought that was a good reaction, as if the audience was taking in the movie.

Mum's reaction (she knows I'm gay) was equally good, during the movie though she tended to be less involved in it than I was (making comments on scenery, makeup, outfits and "what did he say there")....I was just not there anymore....totally within the movie. Mum's reaction to the theme and characters etc was positive which was good.

Will give post when I see it here (one town over) on the 16th, less tolerant crowd so it will be interesting to compare reactions...have a few friends going to another showing (supportive friends) and will take another friend who did the "hmm don't know if I wanna go and see a gay cowboy movie thing on me"....which I spent the next 15 minutes "enlightening" her on why that convienient three word tag cannot describe a 134 minute piece of amazing cinema. Will post her after reaction too.

Jermaine
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: rmbahr on February 04, 2006, 05:18:37 AM
It takes a strong person to accept that some kind of fundamental shift has occured in our being.  A movie, a story, did this?  How can that be?  For me, Ennis and Jack have become the vessels into which I can pour the pain, the joys, the LIFE that I can admit I feel.  And isn't that what we all want?  To feel?  To acknowledge that we feel, for ourselves, for others, for the whole damn, stinking , rotten, glorious , wonderful world of humanity.
Bring yourself here.  Don't worry, we are all here to help, love and understand with you.  I love it here in this community.  So will you.  Welcome.
Quote

All of this compassion and UNDERSTANDING is  incredible~  Its great to know that I am not the only person who has been touched this deeply!  I guess I'll just keep hanging around hoping to gather more insight to my feelings. 

I have a good life!  I am self employed, have LOTS of friends and LOVE being a mom! I probably do have some repressed feelings that this has brought of me but I really cant put my finger on it?

I dont have a relationship with my parents but it was kinda like Jack and Ennis-having to make the choice.  My choice was my boyfriend (i was 17) or my parents.  I chose my boyfriend and finished school-we dated for 3 years, got married and 10 years later had a son and 4 years later had a daughter.  Maybe I feel compassion for Jack and Ennis because I made the choice to be together and NOW after seeing what they had and lost...how close I could have been to losing everything!  (I just feel weird talking like they are real people...ITS A MOVIE!)  It shouldnt matter!!!  IF this movie has made people stop and think about how they feel, then the movie was so well made that it seems so real!  Why is this so hard for me to accept this though?  I just wish that some of my friends and family would get struck with BBM fever becasue I say things about what I read here and they think I have serious issues! :)

This website is so great!  It helps me deal with my ROLLER COASTER of emotions and maybe someday this will all make sense?
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: killersmom on February 04, 2006, 05:41:11 AM
(I just feel weird talking like they are real people...ITS A MOVIE!)  It shouldnt matter!!!  IF this movie has made people stop and think about how they feel, then the movie was so well made that it seems so real!  Why is this so hard for me to accept this though?  I just wish that some of my friends and family would get struck with BBM fever becasue I say things about what I read here and they think I have serious issues! :)

This website is so great!  It helps me deal with my ROLLER COASTER of emotions and maybe someday this will all make sense?

You know, these people are real, there are hundred's of Jacks and Ennis' out there. They are posting daily on this forum.
It does matter... it matters to them and it matters to us, because we all are going to make a difference...because of the message this movie communicates
we are not them and us, this story and what it brings all of us, makes us JUST US

and yes, rmbahr, we all have serious issues, that,s what brings us together on this forum and gets us discussing, and gets us moving

Welcome to this roller coaster, all you have to do is buckle you seat belt, let your emotions take you where they may, and it will all make sense.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: CORFES on February 04, 2006, 07:27:32 AM
I didnt know where else to turn!!!  I have NEVER posted anything on a website in my life!!!  I am a midwestern straight married woman who has been married for almost 17 years and have 2 children under the age of 7.  I LOVE my husband immensely and LOVE being a mom!  I went to see this movie after seeing the Oprah show on Friday.  I was so touched!  I really cant put my finger on it but I was in a spell thinking about this INCREDIBLE movie and have not been the same!  I saw it with my cousin who enjoyed the movie but had a hard time with the man-man relationship...however, she cried at the end and saw my "funk" that I fell into and calls me several times everyday.

I then had my other cousin wondering what was up with me and I moved MOUNTAINS to go see the movie with her on Tuesday.  She related to my feelings but not to the extreme!!  I then went and bought the book and soundtrack on Thursday and cant stop!!!  Today one of my best friends called me and wanted to go so.....she twisted my arm :) and I went!  I cant get enough!!! 

Keep in mind that I am not the kind of person to OBSESS about anything!  I rarely cry at movies and NEVER see a movie more than once...let alone 3 times in less than a week!  I cant figure it out but I have little appetite (dont worry..I'm overweight by 75 lbs :)) I find myself either crying or smiling and not much in between!  I posted this on this link because I have been scanning them all week and I guess I just feel like you guys are the only ones that can really understand what I am feeling...what is it?  What should I do???
Hello, rmbahr!  Welcome to the forum.

I sure do understand what you have been experiencing.

I'm a hetero guy married for 29 years and with two great kids.  BBM haunted me for weeks.  I slipped out and saw it for the 12th time last week.  I've been playing the soundtrack CD in my truck over and over and over and over.

I'm coming out of the obsession now.  Being able to post on this forum has helped enormously.

I think there is something big and important happening here and BBM is acting as a catalyst that is kicking the change into high gear.

Here's the best I've been able to make of this to date:

The ultimate failure of Jack and Ennis to avoid the tragedy of their lives is kicking the rest of us in the butt.  We are called upon, by our own sense of survival, to turn and face those factors in our own lives that might lead us to any similar tragedy.  Even if whatever it is is really hard to face.

Maybe the curse of BBM is that a person will remain obsessed and confused until whatever got sparked by BBM, way down deep, is brought up to the surface and is faced head on.

The reward at the end of all this is the possibility of a life with genuine love in it, and an understanding of how to make it all work.

I wish you the very best in finding that for yourself.  You have friends here.

CORFES
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: BillKCMO on February 04, 2006, 09:52:01 PM
That's one heck of a post, DFWRichNYC.  Fascinating to read.

CORFES:  That's awesome.  I am especially touched when straight males are touched by BBM.  We all have souls, hearts, histories, pain, and finite time in common...
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: jack on February 05, 2006, 06:26:08 AM

Hello, rmbahr!  Welcome to the forum.
I sure do understand what you have been experiencing.

I'm a hetero guy married for 29 years and with two great kids.  BBM haunted me for weeks.  I slipped out and saw it for the 12th time last week.  I've been playing the soundtrack CD in my truck over and over and over and over.

I'm coming out of the obsession now.  Being able to post on this forum has helped enormously.

I think there is something big and important happening here and BBM is acting as a catalyst that is kicking the change into high gear.

Here's the best I've been able to make of this to date:

The ultimate failure of Jack and Ennis to avoid the tragedy of their lives is kicking the rest of us in the butt.  We are called upon, by our own sense of survival, to turn and face those factors in our own lives that might lead us to any similar tragedy.  Even if whatever it is is really hard to face.

Maybe the curse of BBM is that a person will remain obsessed and confused until whatever got sparked by BBM, way down deep, is brought up to the surface and is faced head on.

The reward at the end of all this is the possibility of a life with genuine love in it, and an understanding of how to make it all work.

I wish you the very best in finding that for yourself.  You have friends here.

CORFES

you certainly seem to have found your sea legs in here, corfes, lol :D

jack
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: rmbahr on February 05, 2006, 06:51:36 AM


The ultimate failure of Jack and Ennis to avoid the tragedy of their lives is kicking the rest of us in the butt.  We are called upon, by our own sense of survival, to turn and face those factors in our own lives that might lead us to any similar tragedy.  Even if whatever it is is really hard to face.

Maybe the curse of BBM is that a person will remain obsessed and confused until whatever got sparked by BBM, way down deep, is brought up to the surface and is faced head on.

The reward at the end of all this is the possibility of a life with genuine love in it, and an understanding of how to make it all work.

I wish you the very best in finding that for yourself.  You have friends here.

CORFES
Quote

Well THANKS corfes!!!  That really helps me put things together.  Wonder how long it will take to dig that stuff up from way down deep that got sparked?  I am still very confusedabout this whole thing and am really starting to get to know myself in a completely different light.  I look in the mirror and say "who are you?  What have you done with the person I have known for 38 years!! and why are you doing this to me now?"  I know it sounds crazy :-\

I have come to accept it a little better and appreciate all of your comments here.  Just knowing that I have friends here that can RELATE is comforting...I dont reveal anything I've said on here to people in my "real" life....they just dont get it.  Thanks for getting my mind going again...someday I know "It" will come.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: RolandC on February 05, 2006, 08:04:20 AM

Well THANKS corfes!!!  That really helps me put things together.  Wonder how long it will take to dig that stuff up from way down deep that got sparked?  I am still very confusedabout this whole thing and am really starting to get to know myself in a completely different light.  I look in the mirror and say "who are you?  What have you done with the person I have known for 38 years!! and why are you doing this to me now?"  I know it sounds crazy :-\

I have come to accept it a little better and appreciate all of your comments here.  Just knowing that I have friends here that can RELATE is comforting...I dont reveal anything I've said on here to people in my "real" life....they just dont get it.  Thanks for getting my mind going again...someday I know "It" will come.

I know exactly where you're coming from, my friend. After seeing the film I myself have looked in the mirror and wondered how a film can completely shatter all the walls I have put up around myself.

At 46, I really thought I was done, that my life was pretty much mapped out for me -- get up, go to work, come back home, have dinner, sit at the computer unti I was just about to fall asleep, go to bed, do the whole routine again the next day.

But after seeing this film, I realized that I was not living, just existing. It took a while for it to sink in, but I know there has just got to be something more out there for me, to leave myself open to new adventures and new experiences. After all, what I've been currently doing has not been working, since at the end of the day I'm still sleeping single in a double bed.

And I won't lie to you -- the hardest part of the day is the night. I turn out the light, settle into bed...and all the images from the film come into my mind like if a dam had burst. That part is tough.  :'(
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: PetterG on February 05, 2006, 08:23:28 AM
But after seeing this film, I realized that I was not living, just existing. It took a while for it to sink in, but I know there has just got to be something more out there for me, to leave myself open to new adventures and new experiences. After all, what I've been currently doing has not been working, since at the end of the day I'm still sleeping single in a double bed.

Exactly my reaction too - I'm just existing - just like I fear that Ennis will be for the rest of his life  :'(

And the hard thing is to not stop there, just  :'( for your self and the situation, but to be able to really do something, to take some steps in a new direction and not end up in the Ennis-life I'm living

Now I understand why I have been so 'upset' about Ennis fate in the end of the movie - I'm not  :'( so much for him as for me

Please give me some 'manual' on how I can change my life
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: EnnisAndJack4ever on February 05, 2006, 08:31:37 AM
Keep in mind that I am not the kind of person to OBSESS about anything!  I rarely cry at movies and NEVER see a movie more than once...let alone 3 times in less than a week! "

Oh you're definitely one of us. Never cried about a movie before, and this time I even started crying for a month leading up to the release of the movie, just thinking about the story (and I still haven't read the short story). Another new experience for me is having a crush on an actor. I've thought various actors were sexy before, but I've never had a true crush on one before. But that's certainly how I feel about Heath Ledger, show me a new quote where he says nice things about gay people, and it'll make me weep. I'm like isn't he nicest guy in world, and start singing "Heathie Angel, how I love him" in my head. I figure it's got to be emotionally healthy, and therapeutic, to cry. So I think I owe it to myself to keep going back to the various triggers about Heath and the story that make me cry. There's got to be something therapeutic in it for me.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: lektronnorth on February 05, 2006, 08:49:56 AM

I'm a hetero guy married for 29 years and with two great kids.  BBM haunted me for weeks.  I slipped out and saw it for the 12th time last week.  I've been playing the soundtrack CD in my truck over and over and over and over.

I'm coming out of the obsession now.  Being able to post on this forum has helped enormously.

I think there is something big and important happening here and BBM is acting as a catalyst that is kicking the change into high gear.

Here's the best I've been able to make of this to date:

The ultimate failure of Jack and Ennis to avoid the tragedy of their lives is kicking the rest of us in the butt.  We are called upon, by our own sense of survival, to turn and face those factors in our own lives that might lead us to any similar tragedy.  Even if whatever it is is really hard to face.

Maybe the curse of BBM is that a person will remain obsessed and confused until whatever got sparked by BBM, way down deep, is brought up to the surface and is faced head on.

The reward at the end of all this is the possibility of a life with genuine love in it, and an understanding of how to make it all work.

I wish you the very best in finding that for yourself.  You have friends here.

CORFES


I think that's a very perceptive remark, especially, if you'll forgive me, from a straight guy.  It seems the more emotional baggage from the past that we've bunged in a box and shut the lid tightly on, the more this affects us. I still cry almost unprompted just thinking about it. I guess older people (I'm 52) are more affected than younger, because of the years, and being nearer to the time the movie is set in.  But one of the most perceptive posters on here turns out to be 19, so some people get it, whatever.

People have been wondering about closure. I'm not sure there is going to be complete closure for me until I a) find my soulmate, and b) hold him as close as the two shirts are. A lot of work in progress. But BBM has made me make a start, at least. For that Ang Lee is now a major hero in my life.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: RolandC on February 05, 2006, 12:15:05 PM
Please give me some manual on how I can change my life

PetterG,

Ah, if life came with an instruction manual, how simple would everything be. Unfortunately, life's experiences are mostly based on trial and error. If something doesn't work you either repeat what you're doing until maybe you'll get a different result or try something completely new.

A few days ago, I read something from syndicated advice columnist "Dear Abby." Usually I skim through it just to see what issues other people are going through, the answers that are given, and if what was going on applied to me. Usually the answer to the last parts was "no". But ever since BBM, I've looked for suggestions on what I can do to find my own "Love That Will Never Grow Old". This was written in the column for February 1st:

Simply put, decent people are found where decent people gather. You will never meet anyone sitting at home, so get out of the house and become involved. Enroll in an adult education class. Volunteer your services. Get involved with your church or a civic group. Join a political party and volunteer to help at a polling station. (You'll meet everyone in your district!) Join a professional organization.
You may not meet "the one" right away, but you'll make new friends -- and one of them may have a friend who's perfect.


I'll even add to that -- "find those who feel that "Brokeback Mountain" is much more than 'just' a film. By finding someone who likewise has been affected by what the film has to offer, you already have something magical in common. I'm certain that there are people in your area who have come away from the film with similar feelings as yourself and are looking to reach out and connect.

Please keep us posted. I'm sure I speak for everyone here when I wish nothing but success for you in your search. :)
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: WLAGuy on February 05, 2006, 12:27:01 PM
Hello, rmbahr!  Welcome to the forum.

I sure do understand what you have been experiencing.

I'm a hetero guy married for 29 years and with two great kids.  BBM haunted me for weeks.  I slipped out and saw it for the 12th time last week.  I've been playing the soundtrack CD in my truck over and over and over and over.

I'm coming out of the obsession now.  Being able to post on this forum has helped enormously.

I think there is something big and important happening here and BBM is acting as a catalyst that is kicking the change into high gear.

Here's the best I've been able to make of this to date:

The ultimate failure of Jack and Ennis to avoid the tragedy of their lives is kicking the rest of us in the butt.  We are called upon, by our own sense of survival, to turn and face those factors in our own lives that might lead us to any similar tragedy.  Even if whatever it is is really hard to face.

Maybe the curse of BBM is that a person will remain obsessed and confused until whatever got sparked by BBM, way down deep, is brought up to the surface and is faced head on.

The reward at the end of all this is the possibility of a life with genuine love in it, and an understanding of how to make it all work.

I wish you the very best in finding that for yourself.  You have friends here.

CORFES

Wow, CORFES, are you really sure you're straight?  I didn't think straight guys could be so perceptive!  Just kidding, of course.  That was beautifully written. 
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Boris on February 05, 2006, 12:54:41 PM
Dear Corfes:

"The ultimate failure of Jack and Ennis to avoid the tragedy of their lives is kicking the rest of us in the butt.  We are called upon, by our own sense of survival, to turn and face those factors in our own lives that might lead us to any similar tragedy.  Even if whatever it is is really hard to face.

Maybe the curse of BBM is that a person will remain obsessed and confused until whatever got sparked by BBM, way down deep, is brought up to the surface and is faced head on.

The reward at the end of all this is the possibility of a life with genuine love in it, and an understanding of how to make it all work."

You words resonate so strongly with what I am going through right now. BBM touched and woke up the "balrog" (remember LOTR?) inside of me. The feelings and need I had suppressed and hoped that would eventually die, my procrastination would make them moot, that my complacency would make me "moderately happy". I have realized during this weekend that it is not possible.

I visited my father in hospital. He is 67, has been healthy as an ox and out of the blue he got serious cardiac condition and they had to make a bypass surgery. My father whom I hated when I was a young teen. My father who has become in a my eyes and heart a man to be a man to be admired and respected when I finally grew up. He was ill for the first time in his life and it was really serious. The surgery went well and yesterday when I was leaving hospital to catch my plane he held me close and whispered:

"Thank you for being my son. You aren't yet what you can be and what you will be".

He knew what I was going through without me telling him. Even from his own discomfort and weariness after the surgery, he knew... He is a wise man. It is in a way sad that we learned to appreciate each other only after I was way over thirty. I think that after I finally came out, I actually became a man in his eyes. A man with my own footing. He has always loved me and been there for me in his silent manner.

The only problem here is that I do not know what I can be and what will I be. But they are just details. The main thing is that I believed him.

Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: mynamesclara on February 05, 2006, 04:19:53 PM
Dear Corfes:

"The ultimate failure of Jack and Ennis to avoid the tragedy of their lives is kicking the rest of us in the butt.  We are called upon, by our own sense of survival, to turn and face those factors in our own lives that might lead us to any similar tragedy.  Even if whatever it is is really hard to face.

Maybe the curse of BBM is that a person will remain obsessed and confused until whatever got sparked by BBM, way down deep, is brought up to the surface and is faced head on.

The reward at the end of all this is the possibility of a life with genuine love in it, and an understanding of how to make it all work."

You words resonate so strongly with what I am going through right now. BBM touched and woke up the "balrog" (remember LOTR?) inside of me. The feelings and need I had suppressed and hoped that would eventually die, my procrastination would make them moot, that my complacency would make me "moderately happy". I have realized during this weekend that it is not possible.

I visited my father in hospital. He is 67, has been healthy as an ox and out of the blue he got serious cardiac condition and they had to make a bypass surgery. My father whom I hated when I was a young teen. My father who has become in a my eyes and heart a man to be a man to be admired and respected when I finally grew up. He was ill for the first time in his life and it was really serious. The surgery went well and yesterday when I was leaving hospital to catch my plane he held me close and whispered:

"Thank you for being my son. You aren't yet what you can be and what you will be".

He knew what I was going through without me telling him. Even from his own discomfort and weariness after the surgery, he knew... He is a wise man. It is in a way sad that we learned to appreciate each other only after I was way over thirty. I think that after I finally came out, I actually became a man in his eyes. A man with my own footing. He has always loved me and been there for me in his silent manner.

The only problem here is that I do not know what I can be and what will I be. But they are just details. The main thing is that I believed him.





"There is something big and important happening here and BBM is acting as a catalyst....."
I think CORFES uses the most appropriate words to describe what's happening here.....

Anyway...it was really easy for me to write down what happened when I saw the movie,but that was just technical description that anybody can share..I noticed that there's a section about how BBM effected your life...personally...but I thought I was finished by telling how people reacted and so on....i thought that it was over...until I read this....

I really can't believe this....really.......
We are so so distant but at the same time so close,you can't even imagine....

I'm 24 and my father,who like yours had always been healthy as an ox,suddenly drop ill.
He died two mounts ago at 67....
I knew that there was something wrong with him but nobody could ever imagine that he'd die in 3 days....
I was abroad, so during the weekend I couldn't find a flight for the day after so I had to wait two days...
in the meanwhile he was gone....So I didn't have the chance to say him goodbye,or something.
Like you I used to hate him....we didn't talk much,we didn't have a thing in common,we had always been very cold-hearted
and distant towards each other,we knew we loved each other but never managed to say a word.
We are very tough people,myself included, I still have to shed a tear for him,but my own way
I kind of "swear" something too. I don't know what....that's crazy....
He died whispering my name,not my mum's, but mine. He said that he wanted to visit me in Paris
cos it was time to spent some time with his smart daughter...
I'll always regret for both of us a life of silences,unspoken words,and hard unexpressed feelings.

While writing this I'm still very confused,I don't know if your real name is Boris
but my brother's name is actually Boris, so you can only imagine how shocked I was reading your post....
Ironic how we share the same story,same numbers and names,only the ending is different....
Clara.

Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: JPdavid on February 05, 2006, 05:43:17 PM
Hey all,

Here's a hilarious account about how a reluctant husband finally got to see BBM...

http://www.insidebayarea.com/bayarealiving/ci_3475964

I especially love the last bit....

"...When the husband finally got out of his and went to the movie, he found the theater had a sense of humor about it. Not only did the marquee spell out in block letters, "Brokeback Mountain," but in smaller ones was a tongue-in-cheek tribute to director Lee that added, "Crouching Cowboy, Hidden Love."

And in the lobby? An actual pup tent. With two sets of cowboy boots outside. Right next to the concession stand.

Even the husband smiled. "

Cheers!

JP

P.S.  I am attending the premier in Singapore this Wednesday! Will let u guys know how it goes.

Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Cowboy Dave on February 05, 2006, 06:14:48 PM
Quote
The "breeder" label turns my stomach partly because women have through the centuries been reduced to their biology, as if the only thing they're good for is baby-making.

Cara - a belated lighter response. I agree the "breeder" retort is just trading barbs in a Junior High sorta way, although it
is often used in a campy sort of way with no intended malice. I wouldn't take it in a misogynist way, because it is said
to straight men and women alike.

Lately, my gay partner and I have enjoyed telling our gay friends that we're in the process of becoming "breeders!" 
This has nothing to do with sexual orientation but is intended as a segue into a discussion about our developing life with Alaskan
Malamutes!

Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Boris on February 06, 2006, 04:36:07 AM
Dear Clara

First of all, I am deeply, deeply sorry for your loss. My heart goes out to you. I know (somewhat) what you are going through. My mother passed away suddenly 25 years ago and still I mourn that I never said truly what she meant to me. I can only pray that she knew. My father seems to have known even though I have not been very capable of expressing it.

My father is recovering fine now but his illness made me realize (with BBM) some basic realities of life. There is not time. You never know when it is too late to say, to touch, to hug, to express love and devotion. I lost my mother before I could say that, I almost lost my father before I could say that. My late grandmother once said (when my mother died) that "loss is partly imaginary. You never lose her as long as you remember her and cherish her memory. Probably that is why the last scene of BBM has so profound effect on me.

I sincerely believe that your father loved you and you were important to him. After all you were his "smart daughter"...

I regret the words I have said to my father, the years of uncommunication, silence, sulking and distrust. I have had a possibility to live past those times, but still the memory of my behavior haunts me. My father has said that when I was a child and especially when I reached puberty and finally moved out of home, it was like "raising an alien". We couldn't talk about anything without a fight and we ended talking altogether.

When I came out as a gay man to him when I was past thirty, he was stunned. He had known it all those years, but still he kind of retreated and I felt really hurt. We had already taken steps to make amends and he did the same thing again. Became silent, brooding, noncommunicative.

After a couple of years he finally told me that it wasn't a question of disapproval or lack of love. He said that the only thing he wants for his children is that they become happy. He didn't believe that being happy and content is possible if you are gay. He felt sorry for me, not angry. It took him some time and lots of courage to tell me that. He felt pain for me because he was afraid that I will never find happiness in my life if I am gay. And somehow we both managed not to communicate this to one another. I thought that he hated or at least disapproved of me. He thought that I had "flaunted" my homosexuality to him and them clamped shut in order to insult him... and not give him even a chance to explain what he felt.

Boy, aren't being Ennis hereditary or what.

Clara, you know your father loved you. The love he felt when he first held you in his arms never went away, even though you weren't good in communicating with each other. And after all it is all that counts.

And Boris is a nickname my father gave to me when I was a little boy. But that is another story altogether.

Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Tony on February 06, 2006, 07:47:51 AM
This is a great article about a straight guy reluctant to watch BBM.  At the end... see what happened!

"After lots of bucking, a bronco agrees to give 'Brokeback' a shot"
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/02/04/DDGD1H234P1.DTL
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: terry on February 06, 2006, 09:44:42 AM
  Clara, you have my sympathies as well.  It just goes to show you that this film has had such a profound effect on all of us.  God bless.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: rjc on February 06, 2006, 12:03:46 PM
Please give me some manual on how I can change my life


I'll even add to that -- "find those who feel that "Brokeback Mountain" is much more than 'just' a film. By finding someone who likewise has been affected by what the film has to offer, you already have something magical in common. I'm certain that there are people in your area who have come away from the film with similar feelings as yourself and are looking to reach out and connect.

Please keep us posted. I'm sure I speak for everyone here when I wish nothing but success for you in your search. :)


Thank's for the suggestion, RolandC. I've been trying to connect with folks on this forum individually as well as collectively. I've been successful with the latter, but not so with the former. Other than one or two pen pals I've made (which I value very highly), I haven't "met" someone whose hand I could shake. To that end, I would love it if those of you in the Seattle area who have been deeply affected by BBM and are interested in making a new friend, get in touch with me.

I've seen the movie five times now and each time alone, and it would be wonderful to see it the next five times with a companion.

-r
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cyoung on February 07, 2006, 11:02:47 AM
So this morning, my younger brother (40) sent me, my siblings, & my father an e-mail with a link to the Top Gun Brokeback spoof. My brother loved Top Gun so much he eventually became a pilot and joined the navy, hoping to fly (didn't work out, but that's another story entirely). Anyway, I thought the spoof was funny and well-done. I never fully realized until now how much homoerotic content there is in these male buddy movies!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2643835654848098127

So I asked my brother if he'd seen the actual movie yet. (He's heterosexual, married, with his wife expecting their first child.) Here was his reply:

"I'm scared if I see it I might turn gay (or gayer than I already am)."

I told him to just go see the damn movie already!

The way straight men are reacting to this movie is just so fascinating to me.

Cara
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Cowboy Dave on February 07, 2006, 11:24:19 AM
Quote
I never fully realized until now how much homoerotic content there is in these male buddy movies!

Cara - some of us did!!!!!!  :)

And now this:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/Movies/02/07/film.brokeback.humor.ap/index.html
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: captaincroc on February 07, 2006, 04:13:20 PM
Right then, where do i start, well i should start with thanking Dave cullen for this FANTASTIC, yes FANTASTIC fan page, (met him on FMF when he was defending this film).  I have spent about 8 hours on this page (at diffrent times i may add)  reading as many posts in full and throughly as i can. Ive only read, this one, Jacks death and Oprah. 3, there that long and detailed that I'm addicted and have about 60 more threads to read, i think its going to be a long night.

Anyways Ive read every page of this thread and I'm SO happy that i have found people like me, touched by a film SO deeply, the ONLY film EVER to have done that. I agree with most peoples opinions here, at first i thought i was on my own when i felt haunted by the movie for days, i got the soundtrack, and been listening to that constantly, been looking on the internet for any bit of info on it.  I have no seen it 5 times, all of which has been naughty watched at home but slightly illegal DVD, only because my home town didn't have the film.  Well until now as it came this week, so  I'm watching it (6th time) for the first time at the cinema tomorrow and i cant wait

Like many people say, its so hard to describe the the film touches you, i really do believe they are real people and Grieved immensely for jack (i feel embarrassed typing it), It was all i could think about for days. I didn't cry the first time, but each time i seen it i cry more , because i appreciate the happy scenes and that gets me sad, when the guitars twangs those notes it always brings a tear to me eye. The Wings just moves me close to tears within the first few seconds.  Now again as most people i ain't some nervous reck as i never cry at films but this one touched me in a way i cant describe.  I thought i was bad watching it 5 times but some of you eclipse me by far  ;), not that it is bad, its just good that I'm not the only one.

I sound like a record but what you guys have posted in virtually a carbon copy of how i feel. Everything about the movie is perfect, and i really do think it will change minds and peoples perceptions , especially over the years when its released on DVD and on TV. Ive also been a walking, talking advertisement for it to anyone that will listen.  I sing as part of my job and i REALLY want to sing a song off brokeback, any ideas? ;)

My main point i think I'm going to make is that over the times that Ive watched it i feel less depressed and crushed about the story, don't get me wrong its still absolutely Heart wrenching sad, i really know what people mean when they say its like you have been kicked in the guts!, But over views i just thank my lucky stars and makes me appreciate that even though things aint perfect and a lot of attitudes need to be changed, that we live in a lot better time now. The final, final point as well is that it restores my faith in love as such, not that Ive been hurt but the love between then was timeless and it gives me hope that my ennis or jack (on face value ennis ;) ) will eventually find me! And if and hopefully i do, i will never let anthing come between us

Looking back over my post i have gone on a random warble but i think most things I'm thinking have been said so these are my added points!

again THANKS to everyone for a fantastic board and  community!

p.s anyone else got the brokeback screensaver etc from the Official site  8), please say i aint the only one!!
Title: A Priest's Reaction to the Movie
Post by: Alberta on February 07, 2006, 06:05:29 PM
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2006/feb/06020703.html

The right wing crazy Christians are attacking a poor priest of the Dominican order for giving BBM a good review. They are organizing a campaign against the guy.  We should weigh in.  Check out the webpage above for the insanity....
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: paintedshoes on February 07, 2006, 06:53:16 PM
Right then, where do i start, well i should start with thanking Dave cullen for this FANTASTIC, yes FANTASTIC fan page, (met him on FMF when he was defending this film).  I have spent about 8 hours on this page (at diffrent times i may add)  reading as many posts in full and throughly as i can. Ive only read, this one, Jacks death and Oprah. 3, there that long and detailed that I'm addicted and have about 60 more threads to read, i think its going to be a long night.

Anyways Ive read every page of this thread and I'm SO happy that i have found people like me, touched by a film SO deeply, the ONLY film EVER to have done that. I agree with most peoples opinions here, at first i thought i was on my own when i felt haunted by the movie for days, i got the soundtrack, and been listening to that constantly, been looking on the internet for any bit of info on it.  I have no seen it 5 times, all of which has been naughty watched at home but slightly illegal DVD, only because my home town didn't have the film.  Well until now as it came this week, so  I'm watching it (6th time) for the first time at the cinema tomorrow and i cant wait

Like many people say, its so hard to describe the the film touches you, i really do believe they are real people and Grieved immensely for jack (i feel embarrassed typing it), It was all i could think about for days. I didn't cry the first time, but each time i seen it i cry more , because i appreciate the happy scenes and that gets me sad, when the guitars twangs those notes it always brings a tear to me eye. The Wings just moves me close to tears within the first few seconds.  Now again as most people i ain't some nervous reck as i never cry at films but this one touched me in a way i cant describe.  I thought i was bad watching it 5 times but some of you eclipse me by far  ;), not that it is bad, its just good that I'm not the only one.

I sound like a record but what you guys have posted in virtually a carbon copy of how i feel. Everything about the movie is perfect, and i really do think it will change minds and peoples perceptions , especially over the years when its released on DVD and on TV. Ive also been a walking, talking advertisement for it to anyone that will listen.  I sing as part of my job and i REALLY want to sing a song off brokeback, any ideas? ;)

My main point i think I'm going to make is that over the times that Ive watched it i feel less depressed and crushed about the story, don't get me wrong its still absolutely Heart wrenching sad, i really know what people mean when they say its like you have been kicked in the guts!, But over views i just thank my lucky stars and makes me appreciate that even though things aint perfect and a lot of attitudes need to be changed, that we live in a lot better time now. The final, final point as well is that it restores my faith in love as such, not that Ive been hurt but the love between then was timeless and it gives me hope that my ennis or jack (on face value ennis ;) ) will eventually find me! And if and hopefully i do, i will never let anthing come between us

Looking back over my post i have gone on a random warble but i think most things I'm thinking have been said so these are my added points!

again THANKS to everyone for a fantastic board and  community!

p.s anyone else got the brokeback screensaver etc from the Official site  8), please say i aint the only one!!
Dear captaincroc, welcome to the best place in the world.  It doesn't matter if things have been said before.  A fresh voice is always welcome, so feel free to chime in whenever and in whatever thread you wish.  This family has been extremely important to me and many others.  Glad to hear what ever you wish to contribute.  Welcome
Title: Re: A Priest's Reaction to the Movie
Post by: MellorSJ on February 07, 2006, 07:36:56 PM
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2006/feb/06020703.html

The right wing crazy Christians are attacking a poor priest of the Dominican order for giving BBM a good review. They are organizing a campaign against the guy.  We should weigh in.  Check out the webpage above for the insanity....

I weighed in thus:

"I am sure a lot of people are writing to you to condemn Fr. Condon's review.  I am not one of them.
 
Firstly, surely to criticise something with any semblance of intellectual honesty surely you have to see it first.  I am willing to bet that many folk writing to you in condemnation of Fr Condon's review have not seen the film.  For one thing, it is entirely possible to see it as a morality tale on the evils of homosexuality, lying to your wives etc etc.
 
What I guess really irks these condemners is that they fear they will have sympathy for the characters, or that other Christians will.  Why is that so bad?  Isn't "Love the sinner, not the sin" a tenet of Christianity?  In any event, why are these same people not protesting positive reviews of the hundreds of films made each year with blood, gore, adultery, and any other evil you can name?
 
But my main reason for writing is to tell you about my best friend.  He is an evangelical Christian and I deeply feared telling him that I was gay, about three years ago, and a dozen years into our friendship.  I feared hatred; I feared rejection; I feared everything else that Ennis Del Mar feared, and that I feared for 35 years when I came to understand my sexuality.  I could not have been more mistaken.  I was not judged, nor rejected.  In fact, our friendship deepened.
 
I must be clear.  I am not a Christian; I rejected the the Church when I was fifteen because of the kind of bile I see here at http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2006/feb/06020703.html .  But my friend, who will never convert me, has taught me the power of his faith and I respect that and honor him for it.  Yet that lesson is being undermined by the many hateful and bigoted reviews from so-called Christians who cannot abide the concept that I might love as they do. 
 
So I must ask you, is your cause harmed or helped by condemning Fr Condon's review?  "
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: jpq716 on February 07, 2006, 08:48:57 PM
Most of the posts that I make about BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN are on another forum, where I may have some clout in getting a few people to see the movie, even if only just once! But so many people there fail to understand why I am so passionate in my defense of this film. As one of them bluntly wrote me, “Relax, dude, it’s only a movie!” Yes, I replied, it is only a movie, but then art, as Picasso told us, is the lie that shows us the truth. When I think about the movie, which I saw almost two weeks ago, and then compare it with half an hour of CNN News, I know that BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN is so much more real in its depiction of life than so many “photo ops” in the so-called “real world.” But so many people refuse to understand, much less accept, this fact…. <SIGH>

The membership of this online community is not typical of mainstream America. This is, at one and the same time, its distinction --- and its vulnerability. <SIGH>

(By the way, while I was composing this message, I was watching FOX News --- and saw the new BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN ad. It was the first one I've seen to highlight the "dozy embrace" scene. I am glad the the distributor is becoming more courageous in its presentation!)
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: BillKCMO on February 07, 2006, 10:01:51 PM
MellorSJ re Fr. Condon:  Beautiful!!!
Title: Re: A Priest's Reaction to the Movie
Post by: lektronnorth on February 08, 2006, 12:31:22 AM
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2006/feb/06020703.html

The right wing crazy Christians are attacking a poor priest of the Dominican order for giving BBM a good review. They are organizing a campaign against the guy.  We should weigh in.  Check out the webpage above for the insanity....

I've weighed in.

Copy of email, headed  "You people should be ashamed"

"Organising a campaign against someone praising one of the most beautiful films of all time.
I don't believe in hell, but you should rot in it.

You're a disgrace. As is your church, condemning millions of decent people just because they happen to love someone of their own sex."


Not as beautiful or as well reasoned as MellorSJ.  These people are subhuman.

Title: Re: A Priest's Reaction to the Movie
Post by: Boris on February 08, 2006, 12:41:42 AM
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2006/feb/06020703.html

The right wing crazy Christians are attacking a poor priest of the Dominican order for giving BBM a good review. They are organizing a campaign against the guy.  We should weigh in.  Check out the webpage above for the insanity....

Dear Alberta

I have had my fair share of encounters with these kind of people (fundamentalist right wingers). Protesting them is usually useless and pointless because they they really do not care. You can post your dissent but it will have no effect whatsoever on them. They have locked themselves inside the wall of hatred and thrown the key away.

This is a reminiscent of a witch hunt but it also tells us something about the power of the movie. BBM changes hearts and to some that harbor venom and hatred it is a dangerous. Brokeback Mountain is dangerous because it depicts love, human emotion and complexity and tragedy regardless of gender, it truly shows that love is a force of nature and not something to be controlled and judged by others.

I applaud your effort though.

Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: mynamesclara on February 08, 2006, 03:46:18 AM
Living in a country where the church interfere with politics more than ever...this ain't no surprise...
A lot of politicians are against gay marriage cos they're catholics....and this is a great contradiction...since politics  and religious believes in this specific matter are completely opposed....

When you have a Popes condemning the use of condoms, claiming homosexuality is "against nature",the only way to stop Aids is chastity,technology is rusting our brains...bla bla bla...well I'm not surprised at all....faith is blind...
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: trinket on February 08, 2006, 06:51:33 AM


So I asked my brother if he'd seen the actual movie yet. (He's heterosexual, married, with his wife expecting their first child.) Here was his reply:

"I'm scared if I see it I might turn gay (or gayer than I already am)."

I told him to just go see the damn movie already!

The way straight men are reacting to this movie is just so fascinating to me.

Cara


Cara,
I laughed at your post!  Hubby and I are both 49, 7 children.  Tell your brotherthat  hubby and I went to see BBM about 2 1/2 weeks ago and he didn't come out of it any gayer then he went in!  LOL

Di
Title: Re: A Priest's Reaction to the Movie
Post by: trinket on February 08, 2006, 07:02:03 AM
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2006/feb/06020703.html

The right wing crazy Christians are attacking a poor priest of the Dominican order for giving BBM a good review. They are organizing a campaign against the guy.  We should weigh in.  Check out the webpage above for the insanity....

As a "right wing crazy Christian" I had my first viewing of BBM about 2 1/2 weeks ago.  I have had 2 viewings since then.
I have confessed on the board before that my first viewing was to be able to say that I actually SAW the movie before criticizing it.
I read the above review you sent (thanks).  I have also encouraged Christian friends to go see the movie and decide for themselves. 
MANY are appalled that I went to see it.
Tonight I am taking my 23 year old daughter and my mother, who is 72 years old and Catholic.
Perhaps we should wear bags over our heads so nobody recognizes us.
ggeesshhh
Title: Re: A Priest's Reaction to the Movie
Post by: lektronnorth on February 08, 2006, 07:09:35 AM
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2006/feb/06020703.html

The right wing crazy Christians are attacking a poor priest of the Dominican order for giving BBM a good review. They are organizing a campaign against the guy.  We should weigh in.  Check out the webpage above for the insanity....

As a "right wing crazy Christian" I had my first viewing of BBM about 2 1/2 weeks ago.  I have had 2 viewings since then.
I have confessed on the board before that my first viewing was to be able to say that I actually SAW the movie before criticizing it.
I read the above review you sent (thanks).  I have also encouraged Christian friends to go see the movie and decide for themselves. 
MANY are appalled that I went to see it.
Tonight I am taking my 23 year old daughter and my mother, who is 72 years old and Catholic.
Perhaps we should wear bags over our heads so nobody recognizes us.
ggeesshhh

You seem almost reasonable.  (Sorry, but I'm really wanting to kick ass over the fundamentalist & Catholic Christian response to this lovely lovely film)
How do you react to the sort of comments that some of your Christian colleagues come out with? if it was blacks they were targeting, they'd quite rightly be arrested.
Title: Re: A Priest's Reaction to the Movie
Post by: killersmom on February 08, 2006, 07:22:47 AM
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2006/feb/06020703.html
Quote
The right wing crazy Christians are attacking a poor priest of the Dominican order for giving BBM a good review. They are organizing a campaign against the guy.  We should weigh in.  Check out the webpage above for the insanity....




As a "right wing crazy Christian" I had my first viewing of BBM about 2 1/2 weeks ago.  I have had 2 viewings since then.
I have confessed on the board before that my first viewing was to be able to say that I actually SAW the movie before criticizing it.
I read the above review you sent (thanks).  I have also encouraged Christian friends to go see the movie and decide for themselves. 
MANY are appalled that I went to see it.
Tonight I am taking my 23 year old daughter and my mother, who is 72 years old and Catholic.
Perhaps we should wear bags over our heads so nobody recognizes us.
ggeesshhh

Thanks Di,
I have the same problem you are having . I am catholic too and most everyone I know are conservative Christian. The business I have tends to attract cc.   I too had many appalled at my viewings, and can't say how many times I have seen it. I absolutely have no one around me personally to take or to talk to except here. The talk and discussion gets me thru, but it is hard to have a friend on the computer actually be in the theater with you, so I just go it alone.
I don't worry about having to wear a bag over my head as I will never see anyone I know at the theater.
Although I have thought about the sackcloth and ashes scenario.

Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: jack on February 08, 2006, 08:02:20 AM
[While writing this I'm still very confused,I don't know if your real name is Boris
but my brother's name is actually Boris, so you can only imagine how shocked I was reading your post....
Ironic how we share the same story,same numbers and names,only the ending is different....
Clara.

ahh,  but is the ending different clara?  i have come to believe there are no coincidences.  perhaps you couldn't be there, but that was not of your choosing, no matter how you may try to blame yourself.  i think, all things considered, you father would want you to borrow the message that boris had, and whatever passes for a higher power left the message here for you.  be sure he was proud of you and would never want you to feel pain on his account.

jack   
Title: Re: A Priest's Reaction to the Movie
Post by: trinket on February 08, 2006, 08:05:18 AM

As a "right wing crazy Christian" I had my first viewing of BBM about 2 1/2 weeks ago.  I have had 2 viewings since then.
I have confessed on the board before that my first viewing was to be able to say that I actually SAW the movie before criticizing it.
I read the above review you sent (thanks).  I have also encouraged Christian friends to go see the movie and decide for themselves. 
MANY are appalled that I went to see it.
Tonight I am taking my 23 year old daughter and my mother, who is 72 years old and Catholic.
Perhaps we should wear bags over our heads so nobody recognizes us.
ggeesshhh

You seem almost reasonable(Sorry, but I'm really wanting to kick ass over the fundamentalist & Catholic Christian response to this lovely lovely film)
How do you react to the sort of comments that some of your Christian colleagues come out with? if it was blacks they were targeting, they'd quite rightly be arrested.
Quote

I am very disappointed in the fundamentalist and Catholic Christian response to BBM.
When confronted personally I tell them if they don't want to see it, don't.
But I then also say they should not give an opinion on it.
I think that too many are judging too quickly and forming an opinion on something they haven't even seen.
There is only ONE judge, and it's not me and it's not you.
I said this over on the Free Public board and got severely shot down. SO MUCH JUDGING!
Also, I feel they are missing out on something, real and important and wonderful.




Title: Re: A Priest's Reaction to the Movie
Post by: trinket on February 08, 2006, 08:18:29 AM

I don't worry about having to wear a bag over my head as I will never see anyone I know at the theater.
Although I have thought about the sackcloth and ashes scenario.

L
Quote

GREAT POINT!  L...you ALWAYS have wise words for me!
Up until today I have had to drive 40 minutes for my multiple viewings.
BB is now at our local theater and tonight will be my first time seeing it locally. 
I can't wait!
I am also very anxious to get my 23 year old daughters thoughts on the movie.
She is such a suckr for love stories..hum, wonder where she gets that?
Title: Re: A Priest's Reaction to the Movie
Post by: lektronnorth on February 08, 2006, 08:24:28 AM

I am very disappointed in the fundamentalist and Catholic Christian response to BBM.
When confronted personally I tell them if they don't want to see it, don't.
But I then also say they should not give an opinion on it.
I think that too many are judging too quickly and forming an opinion on something they haven't even seen.
There is only ONE judge, and it's not me and it's not you.
I said this over on the Free Public board and got severely shot down. SO MUCH JUDGING!
Also, I feel they are missing out on something, real and important and wonderful.


If only your "fire and brimstone crowd" (thank you Ennis) were more like that, maybe the world would be a better, more loving, less hurtful and painful place.  You must think you're a bit of a voice in the wilderness.
Over here we have the Church of England tying itself in knots over "civil partnerships" which are now legal. Several gays who also happen to be Christians have had the temerity to wonder whether they might make a public affirmation of their love for each other in a church.
You'd think they'd turned up demanding to burn the damn thing down.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: jack on February 08, 2006, 08:41:59 AM
. I never fully realized until now how much homoerotic content there is in these male buddy movies!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2643835654848098127

The way straight men are reacting to this movie is just so fascinating to me.

hey cara..

you are getting the equivalent to a 6 credit college course in gender and sexuality issues, maybe more.  i got immersed in box office and platform rollouts in much the same way.  who knewhow much business there is in the film business?

i guarantee you all of uswere aware of the homoerotic content in buddy films.  it was the only way we ever got to see one man in the arms of another, on the battlefield or in the hospital.  naked men was only in the locker room or with a woman, from the back.  watch red river sometime, or better yet, the oldie the big sky.  it is beneath me to mention butch and sundance (but boy were they hot, and who needed katherine ross  ::) ).

jack
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cyoung on February 08, 2006, 01:25:46 PM
Aaaagggghhhh.... I am sitting here in tears of frustration and anger.

I had sent my conservative sister-in-law an essay about the movie, written by a conversative woman who loved the movie. My sister-in-law saw the movie with me last weekend. After we saw it, she said she wasn't moved by it and didn't find their love 'believable," but thought it was a good movie nonetheless.

In her e-mail just now, she wrote:

*************************
Hey Cara, she sounds pretty liberal to me!  Wait til her church friends get ahold of her!:-)
 I found the movie to be unbelievable because I don't think it's normal for two burly guys to be loving on each other.  It's bizarre to see it. And I don't feel as moved by the movie as a lot of people.  It's good, but is definitely propaganda for the gay agenda without being "in your face".  It shows the dilemma of gay people, living in or out of the closet.  It tries to make people feel sorry for guys like Jack and Ennis.  I didn't feel that sorry for them.  Not sure why. 
**************************

I replied. I was a bit angry in my reply and told her so.  :(

This is just so discouraging to me.

Cara
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: TheEnigmatik1 on February 08, 2006, 01:58:47 PM
Aaaagggghhhh.... I am sitting here in tears of frustration and anger.

I had sent my conservative sister-in-law an essay about the movie, written by a conversative woman who loved the movie. My sister-in-law saw the movie with me last weekend. After we saw it, she said she wasn't moved by it and didn't find their love 'believable," but thought it was a good movie nonetheless.

In her e-mail just now, she wrote:

*************************
Hey Cara, she sounds pretty liberal to me!  Wait til her church friends get ahold of her!:-)
 I found the movie to be unbelievable because I don't think it's normal for two burly guys to be loving on each other.  It's bizarre to see it. And I don't feel as moved by the movie as a lot of people.  It's good, but is definitely propaganda for the gay agenda without being "in your face".  It shows the dilemma of gay people, living in or out of the closet.  It tries to make people feel sorry for guys like Jack and Ennis.  I didn't feel that sorry for them.  Not sure why. 
**************************

I replied. I was a bit angry in my reply and told her so.  :(

This is just so discouraging to me.

Cara


Hi Cara-

To be honest, I don't really find your sister-in-law's thoughts to be discouraging at all. I find them sadly typical of what I've heard from some heterosexuals who have seen the movie however. I'll point you all to this line in Cara's post that sticks out in my mind...

I found the movie to be unbelievable because I don't think it's normal for two burly guys to be loving on each other.

After this, I stopped reading the rest and had to take a moment to reread the whole thing. It would seem that most people "not in the know" echo your sister-in-law's thoughts. What your sister in law has failed to grasp, and what most people with no direct assocation to our community fails to grasp is that not only is this scenario believable, it's fairly commonplace. Here we have another person who was under the sorely misguided assumption that all of us are "Jack MacFarlands" or "Carson Kressleys." You have to realize that mainstream America isn't willing to acknowledge our existence just yet. And even though that isn't the point of this movie or this story, we can only hope that at the very least, people with no concept of what it means to be gay leave the theatre with the realization that "what they thought we were about is WAY off base on MANY levels."

"It's bizarre to see it." she says.

It's only bizarre because she did not know of it's existence or even the possibility. Now she does...whether she's aware of it or not, she left the theatre with the idea planted in her head that it is. So if she encounters something similar during her lifetime, the letter she wrote you and her thoughts therein will come back in an surreal epiphany.

"It's good, but is definitely propaganda for the gay agenda without being "in your face."

Hmm..OK. Interesting twist. But <buzz> wrong answer. Since what she's seen is so far outside the scope of what she deems to be reality, she has to make wild assumptions like this. Maybe I'm delusional, but I didn't notice any propaganda and I sure as hell don't know anything about any "gay agenda." I beg to differ...this move is WAY in your face. The characters may not have been uber-campy and over-the-top...but the content of the movie itself is meant to be provocative. It challenges preconceived notions about homosexuals and their relationships in such a way that it can't be anything but. But once again, maybe I'm just crazy. ::)

And that last line...Dear God (and yes, I'm a Primitive Baptist AND a homosexual). This movie does not seek to illicit pity from audiences on behalf of either character. If anything BBM depicts a different take on love and attempts to show that true love is universal and without boundaries (at least to my limited intellect). You weren't supposed to feel sorry for the characters, I don't think. The point to me was that Jack and Ennis could have been anyone. For all their inherent characteristics, virtues and vices, they were still non-descript enough that almost anyone, homo or heterosexual could put themselves in one or in rare cases, both of their shoes and feel their situation.

I'm sorry...I get tangental at times and tend to just type what I thik without filtering things. But don't be angry or frustrated Cara. She just didn't get it this time around and it obviously was not your task to educate her. As I said in another post, some folks are just beyond being shown "The Light."

Hugs
The Enigmatik One
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: BillN on February 08, 2006, 02:26:08 PM
Cara, I understand the desire to get her to see the light, but not everyone is going to, there are even gay people who didn't care for the film. I thought her response to you was dogmatic but not harsh or terribly condemming from a religious conservative, and it was civil which isn't the case with so many people on the right. I think there may be some hope on a long term basis in other words.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: lolita on February 08, 2006, 02:44:20 PM
Thank god for this forum...
As a straight Aussie female, i am overwhemed by how this movie has consumed my thoughts-  waking and sleeping.
It was my 6th viewing yesterday, no matter how many times ive seen it ive never failed to be moved - either physically or emotionally.
I took my best friend and her partner, no way, i'll go by myself next time.
They thought it was 'slow' and 'not realistic'
WTF!!! Every part of Brokeback is a well thought out piece of art.
I feel BBM has taken over a part of my life, every free moment im lurking on this amazing forum or replaying youtubes. ;)
Thank god im not the only one...
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: paintedshoes on February 08, 2006, 02:51:14 PM
Dear Cara,

  I can understand a little of your predicament, though my response would not be nearly as informed and insightful as Enigmatik.  One thing that struck me particularly about your sister-in-laws response was "wait til her church friends get ahold of her" for being what your in-law considered too liberal.  That gave me shivers.  I saw this less than conservative woman...hands tied in front of her, head bowed, forced to accept some medieval punishment for her ideas...OK, I know that was a little far-fetched, but that was my immediate reaction to that statement.
  People never fail to amaze me.  Your frustration is so heartfelt.  You want her to understand.  She won't, or can't.  So she will pray for you to see her light, her truth.  I feel sadness and sorrow for people who live such narrow lives.  They do not understand the beauty of ALL God's chillun'.  More's the pity for them.
  CAra, you are loved so much here, let go of the frustration...it's not worth the energy.  With any luck, Enigmatic will be right, a small seed will have been planted and may bear good fruit.  In the meantime,  laugh a little remembering how that harmonica sounded, Ennis's smile of love when he heard it, even as he complained.  Remember you are here among friends.  Hang in there, like crazy, girlfriend. 

Lots of love and hugs,
Jackie
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: MellorSJ on February 08, 2006, 02:51:22 PM
Cara, I understand the desire to get her to see the light, but not everyone is going to, there are even gay people who didn't care for the film. I thought her response to you was dogmatic but not harsh or terribly condemming from a religious conservative, and it was civil which isn't the case with so many people on the right. I think there may be some hope on a long term basis in other words.

Cara, I don't what you said in your reply, but I think Enigmatick1 had it right: It all boils down to disbelief.

I have read of other people reporting viewers saying "I didn't know they could be in love like that."  (Put the "they" in quotes for better effect.)  Well, "they" can.  We do.

And that, if I were replying to your sister-in-law, is what I would say.  Yes, there are lot of men who are in love with men, and those men are indistinguishable from all the other men you know who like football, fishing, walks in the park, whatever. 

If this film is in any way propoganda, it is in just this way.  Not to make homosexuality seem normal, but to make it clear that perfectly normal people can be homosexual.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: killersmom on February 08, 2006, 03:25:28 PM
Thank god for this forum...
As a straight Aussie female, i am overwhemed by how this movie has consumed my thoughts-  waking and sleeping.
It was my 6th viewing yesterday, no matter how many times ive seen it ive never failed to be moved - either physically or emotionally.
I took my best friend and her partner, no way, i'll go by myself next time.
They thought it was 'slow' and 'not realistic'
WTF!!! Every part of Brokeback is a well thought out piece of art.
I feel BBM has taken over a part of my life, every free moment im lurking on this amazing forum or replaying youtubes. ;)
Thank god im not the only one...

lolita, thanks for posting here, and as you know, you are not alone.
It helps to write and post and get talking...that will enable you to deal with everything you are going thru in viewing the movie and your reactions to it. Since you have been lurking, you may be familiar with all the topics. Get on the threads and start posting. Everyone will welcome you with open arms. Thanks again for finding us, and welcome aboard :)

killersmom
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Cowboy Dave on February 08, 2006, 05:27:13 PM
Some Lighter and hopefully inoffensive Fare - a friend sent me this:

Ennis Del Mar - Jack Twist
Brokeback Mountain Grocery List
Summer 1963

------------------
WEEK ONE
------------------

Beans
Bacon
Coffee
Whiskey

------------------
WEEK TWO
------------------

Beans
Ham
Coffee
Whiskey

------------------
WEEK THREE
------------------

Beans al fresca
Thin-sliced Bacon
Hazelnut Coffee
Sky vodka & Tanqueray gin
K-Y gel

------------------
WEEK FOUR
------------------

Beans en salade
Pancetta
Coffee (espresso grind)
5-6 bottles best Chardonnay
2 tubes K-Y gel

------------------
WEEK FIVE
------------------

Fresh Fava beans
Jasmine rice
Prosciutto, approx. 8 ounces, thinly sliced
Medallions of veal
Porcini mushrooms
1/2 pint of heavy whipping cream
Cub Scout uniform, size 42 long
5-6 bottles French Bordeaux (Estate Reserve)
1 extra large bottle Astro-glide

------------------
WEEK SIX
------------------

Yukon Gold potatoes
Heavy whipping cream
Asparagus (very thin)
Organic Eggs
Spanish Lemons
Gruyere cheese (well aged)
Crushed Walnuts
Arugula
Clarified Butter
Extra Virgin Olive oil
Pure Balsamic vinegar
6 yards white silk organdy
6 yards pale ivory taffeta
3 Cases of Dom Perignon Masters Reserve
Large tin Crisco
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: trinket on February 08, 2006, 05:54:54 PM
Thank god for this forum...
As a straight Aussie female, i am overwhemed by how this movie has consumed my thoughts-  waking and sleeping.
It was my 6th viewing yesterday, no matter how many times ive seen it ive never failed to be moved - either physically or emotionally.
I took my best friend and her partner, no way, i'll go by myself next time.
They thought it was 'slow' and 'not realistic'
WTF!!! Every part of Brokeback is a well thought out piece of art.
I feel BBM has taken over a part of my life, every free moment im lurking on this amazing forum or replaying youtubes. ;)
Thank god im not the only one...

WELCOME lolita!  We are so glad you found us!  Hang out!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cyoung on February 08, 2006, 07:24:09 PM
Cara, I understand the desire to get her to see the light, but not everyone is going to, there are even gay people who didn't care for the film. I thought her response to you was dogmatic but not harsh or terribly condemming from a religious conservative, and it was civil which isn't the case with so many people on the right. I think there may be some hope on a long term basis in other words.

Well, I probably blew it with her, then, because I responded with some anger.  :( I'm probably getting too emotionally tangled up in this. I'm taking criticisms of it personally!

Cara
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: WLAGuy on February 08, 2006, 07:24:47 PM
it is beneath me to mention butch and sundance (but boy were they hot, and who needed katherine ross  ::) ).

jack

What?  You mean there was a woman in that movie?   :D
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: graylockV on February 08, 2006, 08:53:36 PM
Cara, I understand the desire to get her to see the light, but not everyone is going to, there are even gay people who didn't care for the film. I thought her response to you was dogmatic but not harsh or terribly condemming from a religious conservative, and it was civil which isn't the case with so many people on the right. I think there may be some hope on a long term basis in other words.

Well, I probably blew it with her, then, because I responded with some anger.  :( I'm probably getting too emotionally tangled up in this. I'm taking criticisms of it personally!

Cara

Cara - she never intended to like the movie.  She had a closed mind from the start.  She knew that she had to actually see the movie in order to have any credibility when criticizing it.  Now she can tell all her close-minded friends that she saw it - what courage on her part - and that it stunk.  So then they will be thankfull to her for letting them off the hook, as they then trash it to others by saying stuff like, "I don't need to see such garbage.  So-and-so saw it and said it was awful, etc."  She thus builds her popularity within her own set.

If she had acknowledged that it was a good film she might have to change her mind, not just about gay people, but about a lot of related issues.  Where would that get her?  No, she was a lost cause from the beginning.

When some people say they want so-and-so to see the movie in hopes that their minds and, especially, their hearts, will be opened - I say - don't get your hopes up too much.

Remember the old saying, "There are none so blind as those who refuse to see."
Title: Re: A Priest's Reaction to the Movie
Post by: graylockV on February 08, 2006, 09:05:08 PM

As a "right wing crazy Christian" I had my first viewing of BBM about 2 1/2 weeks ago.  I have had 2 viewings since then.
I have confessed on the board before that my first viewing was to be able to say that I actually SAW the movie before criticizing it.
I read the above review you sent (thanks).  I have also encouraged Christian friends to go see the movie and decide for themselves. 
MANY are appalled that I went to see it.
Tonight I am taking my 23 year old daughter and my mother, who is 72 years old and Catholic.
Perhaps we should wear bags over our heads so nobody recognizes us.
ggeesshhh

You seem almost reasonable(Sorry, but I'm really wanting to kick ass over the fundamentalist & Catholic Christian response to this lovely lovely film)
How do you react to the sort of comments that some of your Christian colleagues come out with? if it was blacks they were targeting, they'd quite rightly be arrested.
Quote

I am very disappointed in the fundamentalist and Catholic Christian response to BBM.
When confronted personally I tell them if they don't want to see it, don't.
But I then also say they should not give an opinion on it.
I think that too many are judging too quickly and forming an opinion on something they haven't even seen.
There is only ONE judge, and it's not me and it's not you.
I said this over on the Free Public board and got severely shot down. SO MUCH JUDGING!
Also, I feel they are missing out on something, real and important and wonderful.


May I say from personal experience that there are no people more close-minded and doctrinaire than so called conservative Catholics.  I could go on and on as to why this is true but it probably does not belong on this website.

There are also many kind and compassionate Catholics who are, unfortunately, "out of power" and likely to stay that way.  They love their church, even in the face of rejection and - dare I say - persecution. 

Nevertheless, all I can say is: Pius X Society; The Catholic League; Opus Dei; etc. - be afraid -  be very afraid.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cyoung on February 08, 2006, 09:16:29 PM
Cara - she never intended to like the movie.  She had a closed mind from the start.  She knew that she had to actually see the movie in order to have any credibility when criticizing it.  Now she can tell all her close-minded friends that she saw it - what courage on her part - and that it stunk.  So then they will be thankfull to her for letting them off the hook, as they then trash it to others by saying stuff like, "I don't need to see such garbage.  So-and-so saw it and said it was awful, etc."  She thus builds her popularity within her own set.

If she had acknowledged that it was a good film she might have to change her mind, not just about gay people, but about a lot of related issues.  Where would that get her?  No, she was a lost cause from the beginning.

Well, here's the thing, and it's one of the reasons her response surprised me. She was visiting from out of town last weekend, and we were talking about movies. I mentioned that I'd seen Brokeback twice, that it had blown me away, and that I wanted to see it again. She perked right up and said, "Oh, I want to see that." A friend of hers had seen and liked it and said it had "sat on her shoulder for days." So we went, and took our teenage daughters with us. Afterward she said she didn't find the love believable, but she did say she thought the movie was "good" and said she was glad she got to see it. Even in her e-mail she acknowledges that the movie was good. So it's good, yet at the same time it's "propaganda for the gay agenda," and she "didn't feel for Jack and Ennis"?! That's what threw me, and irked me. I really do believe that she discussed this later with some more conservative friends, and probably her husband as well, and they told her how she should react.

Quote
Remember the old saying, "There are none so blind as those who refuse to see."

True. It makes me sad because I'm so hoping that this movie WILL change the minds and hearts of people just like my sister-in-law. But it seems to have done just the opposite; it's as though they become even more firmly entrenched in their point of view.

Cara
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: andyincolorado on February 08, 2006, 09:19:40 PM
A friend of mine in my office today, when asked by me if she had finally seen BBM, she told me "You're not going to like what I'm going to say......I was very disappointed by the film because of all the HYPE".
She didn't really elaborate on that  and I didn't ask her at the time. She manages our on-line technical library and is VERY literate person - has read Annie Prouxl's "THE SHIPPING NEWS" and LOVED it and LOVED the film version. She has NOT read the short story for BBM. She just told me that all the HYPE over BBM this past weeks have ruined the film for her somehow.

Has anyone else here gotten the same opinion from their families and/or friends??

Can too much hype 'damage' a film like BBM???
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Uclapeterg on February 08, 2006, 09:47:42 PM
I went to see this movie after seeing the Oprah show on Friday. 

The Oprah effect!!!!

Nothing wrong with how you're feeling. That's why we're all here.  :D
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Uclapeterg on February 08, 2006, 09:50:29 PM
is there anyone who doesn't have some of those issues? 

Mary, I believe we all have similar issues. Some people are denying their emotions like Ennis though. (I don't mean just a gay thing)
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: mary on February 08, 2006, 09:55:37 PM
is there anyone who doesn't have some of those issues? 

Mary, I believe we all have similar issues. Some people are denying their emotions like Ennis though. (I don't mean just a gay thing)

Yes we all bring our own perspective/baggage to this film with us.  It's just that some have the cute little carry ons and some of us have the steamer trunks  Mine's probably somewhere in the middle ;)
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Uclapeterg on February 08, 2006, 10:06:07 PM
it is beneath me to mention butch and sundance (but boy were they hot, and who needed katherine ross  ::) ).
jack
What?  You mean there was a woman in that movie?   :D

There was???? I spent the whole movie looking at how HOT Robert Redford looked.  :D
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Uclapeterg on February 08, 2006, 10:09:18 PM
is there anyone who doesn't have some of those issues? 

Mary, I believe we all have similar issues. Some people are denying their emotions like Ennis though. (I don't mean just a gay thing)

Yes we all bring our own perspective/baggage to this film with us.  It's just that some have the cute little carry ons and some of us have the steamer trunks  Mine's probably somewhere in the middle ;)

I have to check in all my luggage at the airport.  ;)
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: WLAGuy on February 08, 2006, 10:25:33 PM
A friend of mine in my office today, when asked by me if she had finally seen BBM, she told me "You're not going to like what I'm going to say......I was very disappointed by the film because of all the HYPE".
She didn't really elaborate on that  and I didn't ask her at the time. She manages our on-line technical library and is VERY literate person - has read Annie Prouxl's "THE SHIPPING NEWS" and LOVED it and LOVED the film version. She has NOT read the short story for BBM. She just told me that all the HYPE over BBM this past weeks have ruined the film for her somehow.

Has anyone else here gotten the same opinion from their families and/or friends??

Can too much hype 'damage' a film like BBM???

I haven't gotten that reaction, but in a way I'm not surprised someone might say that.  I am curious as to exactly what she meant by that.  My guess is that because of all the critical and public acclaim, she was expecting something flashier, for lack of a better word, and as we all know, BBM is the antithesis of a flashy movie.  In fact, I can see how someone who really isn't paying attention would completely miss most of the stuff that's happening in the movie.  Had she read the book before seeing the movie, I think her reaction would have been much different.  Since she likes Annie's work, you might suggest that she read the book, and then maybe give the movie another try while it's still on the big screen. 
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: BillKCMO on February 08, 2006, 10:25:51 PM
Cara:  It's heartbreaking to hear about your sister-in-law.  Your frustration and anger sound very justified.  I don't know, but a theory might be that she is pretty enmeshed with her conservative friends (and conservative husband?) and/or too afraid to let herself really feel the beauty of the movie.  I can certainly imagine someone who is perhaps not accustomed to thinking much for herself going back a certain circle of people and consenting to their shaping her thoughts and opinions about "Brokeback Mountain."  The good news is that the movie is, now, in her brain...and you know what, I wouldn't be terribly surprised if some day her heart lets it in:  As the posters say, love is a force of nature -- I daresay stronger than the medieval cabal who may well have subjected your sister-in-law to a re-brainwashing intervention.  Sending good thoughts your way!!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cms on February 08, 2006, 10:42:25 PM
Cara:  I'm sorry, but anyone who utters the phrase "propaganda for the gay agenda" was not going to like the movie.  WTF does that mean anyway?
Does she even know how dumb that sounds?  I know it feels bad to blow up at people, so maybe the next time you should try ridicule.  I think that would be effective.  Send her that Onion article about the gay recruitment goal or the "agenda" I saw posted here a while back, where the daily schedule includes taking over all facets of government and business in between going to the gym and theater.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cyoung on February 08, 2006, 11:44:48 PM
Cara:  I'm sorry, but anyone who utters the phrase "propaganda for the gay agenda" was not going to like the movie.  WTF does that mean anyway?

Heh. That was one of the things I wrote in my reply to her: "What the heck is the 'gay agenda' anyway?"

But let me emphasize again that she made the "propaganda for the gay agenda" comment only today, more than one week AFTER seeing the movie. She didn't say this beforehand or at any time right afterward.

Quote
Does she even know how dumb that sounds?

Probably not. She's not the deepest thinker in the world, but I've always thought of her as a good and kind person, although a misguided one. A little too naive, a little too impressionable. But who knows, maybe she's saying the same thing about me?

Quote
I know it feels bad to blow up at people, so maybe the next time you should try ridicule.  I think that would be effective.

I didn't exactly "blow up" at her -- but I did tell her how I felt about her response and that I was angry.

Quote
Send her that Onion article about the gay recruitment goal or the "agenda" I saw posted here a while back, where the daily schedule includes taking over all facets of government and business in between going to the gym and theater.

One step ahead of you there -- I sent this a few days after we'd seen the movie because she'd mentioned her husband ranting about "the gay agenda." She thought it was funny.

Cara
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: patroclus on February 09, 2006, 02:23:48 AM


True. It makes me sad because I'm so hoping that this movie WILL change the minds and hearts of people just like my sister-in-law. But it seems to have done just the opposite; it's as though they become even more firmly entrenched in their point of view.

Cara

I've been thinking about this thing about BBM and is it a piece of gay agenda propoganda. Haven't reached a conclusion yet but one thing that strikes me about both her response to you and yours to hers is that you seem to want her to 'change her mind and heart' as a result of seeing the movie. In effect you are treating the film as a piece of propoganda - a tool to change people opinions. And she's objecting that it feels like a piece of propoganda. Could it be that she's responding to what she experiences as your transformational agenda for her? I'd pick up on her sense that the film was good and and talk with her about that - what you liked what she liked. You know how it is - if I sense someone's desperate for me to react in a particular way it's hard not to resist them.  And it's a perfectly valid point to wonder if the film is a kind of propoganda. Ang Lee himself talks about film's power to change people - that does sound a bit like an agenda/propoganda, doesn't it? This board is full of comments and hopes that the world gets changed by the impact of the film.

And to be honest I didn't cry the first time I say the film. And I was expecting to and can cry quite easily at lots of things. Neither did my pal and he was expecting to be able to cry, too. But I was deeply moved, which is different.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: sunspot on February 09, 2006, 02:35:26 AM
BBM is a work of art, not a work of propaganda.  The folks who wrote it - Annie, Larry, Diana - are all straight.  The story has no obvious agenda, and neither do the writers.  It was inspired by an observation Prolux made in a bar one night of a middle aged man who might have been "country gay".  The story's setting in rural Wyoming during the 1960's flowed from that inspiration to its logical, tragic conclusion.  The fact that hundreds of men wrote Prolux after the story was published in The New Yorker to ask her how she knew so much about their own situation speaks volumes about the honesty and basic accuracy of Brokeback Mountain.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Nick_F on February 09, 2006, 03:33:18 AM
last night saw a friend who I haven't seen in a couple of months, she is a lady in her mid 60s, and an ardent movie goer. She said that she had seen BBM, and was haunted by it for many days afterwards. It was an unexpected comment from her.

I didn't ask her too much about how she felt about it, but it was nice to see some of that universal appeal in evidence.

Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: M. Alexander on February 09, 2006, 06:43:21 AM
Last night I saw Brokeback for the sixth time, but with a difference. I am visiting friends in Milan right now and seeing as the film opened here just recently, I decided to see it once again - no sacrifice! - but this time, in Italian because in Italy the foreign films are always dubbed. (No subtitles, for better or for worse.) It was very interesting.

The translation was pretty good although certain things were changed. For example the scene on the mountain after the 1st night in the tent where Ennis says "I'm no queer" they translated it as "Non sono cosi" - I'm not like that... Also while the inflections were sometimes fairly similar, the voices themselves sounded older than the voices of both Heath and Jake. Jack's vulnerability via Jake's voice was somewhat diminished and of course, the sound of the West and of their lack of education was also absent. That said the subtely of body language of all the actors was of course fully present and I found myself, to my surprise, in tears throughout the course of the film. This was my sixth viewing but I cried more this time than ever before.

The audience was - for a Wednesday night, at 8 pm - a good one. There must have been about 100 people. Couples, older folks, some single girls and some guys together. Very attentive, particularly after the kissing scene on the landing. It is doing very good business here and if I've heard correctly the total overseas box office is now around $40 million. Fantastic.

It feels good to be "reporting" here on this site. It has been a pleasure to follow, when possible, the news while I'm traveling. I may be far away from home, but Brokeback is still in my heart....  Ciao a tutti! ;)
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: trinket on February 09, 2006, 08:00:12 AM
Hi all!
I saw Brokeback last night for the 4th time.  I took my 23 year old daughter and my 72 year old (Catholic) mother.
No.  I did NOT tell them about it being my 4th time, they thought it was only my second. 
I only tell YOU guys/gals that because you GET IT.
It was interesting.  A couple of guys came in together, probably in their 30's....many older women 2 or 3 together and only about 3 couples. 
In the first tent scene as soon as "Jack" sits up and starts looking at "Ennas" and takes his coat off~ a couple sitting in our row got up and stormed out.  I thought that was interesting, that had not happened in any of my other viewings.
My daughter looked at me and said "what?  they didn't know what it was about?"
I said they must have been living under a rock to not know.  ha!  But i did that once, may years ago.  Went to see Halloween and had no CLUE what sort of movie it was.
Coming out after seeing the film I heard one lady say to another "that was the most boring film I've ever seen."
My mom just sort of smiled and said "I liked it ok."
My daughter said (with not much enthusiasm) "yeah, it was good."
 :) :) :) :)
I just got a phone call while writing this post to you and it was from my mom.  She said "I have a question about the movie."
Of course my heart jumped~but I remained calm.  :-X 
She asked if it was "Jack" or "Ennis" that had told about his father taking him when he was 9 and showing him the guy (living with another ranch hand) who had been killed. 
She said she remembered that one of them had told the other but she couldn't remember which. 
She then said "how horribly sad" it was and we talked a little more about it.....Jack marriage, Ennis' marriage (she said he probably would have lived with Alma for the rest of his life if Jack had not come back)  ........ about the scene at Jack's parents and how Jack's mom loved her son no matter what and how his dad was so horrible....we talked about what a crucial scene that was.
I also told her about how the last scene with "Jr." and Ennis paralleled when I went to my daddy (27 years ago) and told him I was getting married and wanted him to come.  He didn't.  She was empathetic.
Honestly?  I was NOT expecting to talk with her about it, not at all, didn't think it would be brought up again.
whew....It felt good to talk to her about it a little bit.

Brokeback Mountain......it will rearrange your life!
Love to all you!
Trinket (my dad use to call me that when I was little)
aka/ Di


Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: MellorSJ on February 09, 2006, 08:26:13 AM
is there anyone who doesn't have some of those issues? 

Mary, I believe we all have similar issues. Some people are denying their emotions like Ennis though. (I don't mean just a gay thing)

Yes we all bring our own perspective/baggage to this film with us.  It's just that some have the cute little carry ons and some of us have the steamer trunks  Mine's probably somewhere in the middle ;)

I have to check in all my luggage at the airport.  ;)

Bad idea.  There are only two kinds of luggage: Hand luggage and lost luggage :)

Not only that, but then you have to wait for it and THEN wait to get through customs.  No thanks!  Two small bags and a credit card for me.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: M. Alexander on February 09, 2006, 08:39:02 AM
Hey Trinket,

Thank you for sharing that story. I can emphathize with you. I was similarly thrilled when my mom - 78 years old - went to see the movie on her own volition (with a female friend) and reported to me the next day that she had loved and that it had "stayed" with her. This is the effect it can have on people. You see it, you go home, and you can discover that it doesn't leave you.

I know I am always disappointed when someone I care for (or even don't!) sees it and doesn't respond like I did. I have to remind myself that we all respond to things differently. But when the response is positive, it is just so great.

I also know the feeling of not wanting to share with others just how deeply the film has hit me - or how many times I've seen it. Six times now and counting... This morning I was talking about it with an Italian friend of mine here in Italy and, once again, the tears just came to my eyes. He was so moved and touched by this. He'd liked the film, but preferred the story. In Italy, though, the story does not start with the scene with the older Ennis waking after having dreamed about Jack. It is not in the Italian edition of the book. When I described it to him, in my less than perfect Italian, he was very moved. And I forgot to tell the part how after dreaming of Jack, Ennis found "sometimes the pillows were wet, sometimes the sheets..." That would have REALLY killed him.

Anyway, hang tough, as will I and we'll get through this. Love all around.

Michael
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: lektronnorth on February 09, 2006, 08:43:22 AM
In Italy, though, the story does not start with the scene with the older Ennis waking after having dreamed about Jack. It is not in the Italian edition of the book. When I described it to him, in my less than perfect Italian, he was very moved. And I forgot to tell the part how after dreaming of Jack, Ennis found "sometimes the pillows were wet, sometimes the sheets..." That would have REALLY killed him.


It is stunning writing. And the line at the start...."he was suffused with pleasure, because Jack Twist was in his dream".

Does me in every time!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: WLAGuy on February 09, 2006, 09:35:52 AM
Cara:  I'm sorry, but anyone who utters the phrase "propaganda for the gay agenda" was not going to like the movie.  WTF does that mean anyway?

Heh. That was one of the things I wrote in my reply to her: "What the heck is the 'gay agenda' anyway?"

It's a little leather-bound book they give you when you come out.  On every page it has a list of things to do that day, things like "go to gym," "have teeth whitened," "shop for new jeans," "watch Oprah," and from 2:00 p.m. to 4:00 p.m., "plot to take over the world." 
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: lektronnorth on February 09, 2006, 09:41:28 AM
Cara:  I'm sorry, but anyone who utters the phrase "propaganda for the gay agenda" was not going to like the movie.  WTF does that mean anyway?

Heh. That was one of the things I wrote in my reply to her: "What the heck is the 'gay agenda' anyway?"

It's a little leather-bound book they give you when you come out.  On every page it has a list of things to do that day, things like "go to gym," "have teeth whitened," "shop for new jeans," "watch Oprah," and from 2:00 p.m. to 4:00 p.m., "plot to take over the world." 

Ah...you forgot the bit about "turn every red blooded heterosexual man into a screaming woofta just by standing next to them". It's after the "put quiche in the oven, and vacuum the curtains" bit.....
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Ken on February 09, 2006, 09:47:51 AM
Cara:  I'm sorry, but anyone who utters the phrase "propaganda for the gay agenda" was not going to like the movie.  WTF does that mean anyway?

Heh. That was one of the things I wrote in my reply to her: "What the heck is the 'gay agenda' anyway?"

It's a little leather-bound book they give you when you come out.  On every page it has a list of things to do that day, things like "go to gym," "have teeth whitened," "shop for new jeans," "watch Oprah," and from 2:00 p.m. to 4:00 p.m., "plot to take over the world." 

Ah...you forgot the bit about "turn every red blooded heterosexual man into a screaming woofta just by standing next to them". It's after the "put quiche in the oven, and vacuum the curtains" bit.....
And don't forget the FREE Toaster Ovens and Microwave for conversions!  :P
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: killersmom on February 09, 2006, 10:26:00 AM
It's a little leather-bound book they give you when you come out.  On every page it has a list of things to do that day, things like "go to gym," "have teeth whitened," "shop for new jeans," "watch Oprah," and from 2:00 p.m. to 4:00 p.m., "plot to take over the world." 

 ;D ???  Thanks WLAGuy, it's good to know there is an instruction booklet out there, and leather bound no less,
so it will last ??? :D
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: DaveinPhilly on February 09, 2006, 11:38:08 AM
Sounds like the Protocals of the Elders of Zion... but very tasteful and attractively published, no doubt.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Uclapeterg on February 09, 2006, 11:47:13 AM
Cara:  I'm sorry, but anyone who utters the phrase "propaganda for the gay agenda" was not going to like the movie.  WTF does that mean anyway?

Heh. That was one of the things I wrote in my reply to her: "What the heck is the 'gay agenda' anyway?"

It's a little leather-bound book they give you when you come out.  On every page it has a list of things to do that day, things like "go to gym," "have teeth whitened," "shop for new jeans," "watch Oprah," and from 2:00 p.m. to 4:00 p.m., "plot to take over the world." 

but Oprah's on at 3pm.  Are we supposed to interrupt our world plotting for her? I don't understand.  ??? :P
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cyoung on February 09, 2006, 01:00:55 PM
Update on my sister-in-law's response. In reply to my somewhat angry e-mail, she sent me the following link to "Parents and Friends of Ex-Gays."

http://www.pfox.org/asp/newsman/anmviewer.asp?a=175

I give up.

Cara
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: KathyinBama on February 09, 2006, 01:04:09 PM
Cara,
I am sorry that your sister in law is not giving you the responses you want (and deserve).  Sadly, I suspect giving up may be the right option.  You cannot make people see the light sometimes, no matter how obvious it seems it should be.  Good luck to you.  ~Kathy
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Uclapeterg on February 09, 2006, 01:04:19 PM
Send her this back:

http://www.csufresno.edu/StudentOrgs/usp/resources/flyers/missionimpossible.htm

 :D
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: trinket on February 09, 2006, 01:32:02 PM


Heh. That was one of the things I wrote in my reply to her: "What the heck is the 'gay agenda' anyway?"

It's a little leather-bound book they give you when you come out.  On every page it has a list of things to do that day, things like "go to gym," "have teeth whitened," "shop for new jeans," "watch Oprah," and from 2:00 p.m. to 4:00 p.m., "plot to take over the world." 
Quote


OH MY GOSH......ROFL &L & L.....you crack me up!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: lektronnorth on February 09, 2006, 03:08:52 PM
Update on my sister-in-law's response. In reply to my somewhat angry e-mail, she sent me the following link to "Parents and Friends of Ex-Gays."

http://www.pfox.org/asp/newsman/anmviewer.asp?a=175

I give up.

Cara

If you open the link, you'll find the second statement from Simon.  If you can get to the end of it without throwing up, you're a better man (or indeed woman) than me.
What a lovely helpful woman your sister in law must be, Cara.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cyoung on February 09, 2006, 03:16:04 PM
Update on my sister-in-law's response. In reply to my somewhat angry e-mail, she sent me the following link to "Parents and Friends of Ex-Gays."

http://www.pfox.org/asp/newsman/anmviewer.asp?a=175

I give up.

Cara

If you open the link, you'll find the second statement from Simon.  If you can get to the end of it without throwing up, you're a better man (or indeed woman) than me.
What a lovely helpful woman your sister in law must be, Cara.

I read it. What makes this trickier is that many of the complaints the man has about the gay community (or "gay ghettoes"?) are things I've seen gay men complain about here (the emphasis on youth, fitness, appearance). But I think he comes to the wrong conclusions about the reasons for these things.

Cara
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Timothy on February 09, 2006, 08:21:32 PM
Quote
Update on my sister-in-law's response. In reply to my somewhat angry e-mail, she sent me the following link to "Parents and Friends of Ex-Gays."

http://www.pfox.org/asp/newsman/anmviewer.asp?a=175

I give up.

Cara

Ah, PFOX.  Scary scary people.

This is the "compassionate" face of the anti-gay movement and, as best I can tell, consists of about three people.  One of them is Richard Cohen, a complete loon, who was featured on Penn and Teller's Bullshit.  If you ever get a chance, see it and you'll know what I mean.

The face of the group is Regina Griggs.  They claim to be parents and friends of Ex-gays (people who used to be gay and now are not).  However, Regina is not the parent of an ex-gay but rather the mother of a gay man who is now unable to wield control over the life of her adult gay son and so instead is campaigning to take away the civil liberties of other gay men and women.

The "successful" ex-gays themselves seem to only consist of a handfull of very religious people who all work for anti-gay political or religious organizations.  Although they call themselves "former homosexuals", nearly all of them admit that on the inside they still have same-sex desire; they've just decided to try to not act on it.  Which is fine, of course.  However, they don't stop there.  They insist that everyone should be forced to deny their orientation and either live celibate the rest of their life or find some woman (like Alma or Lureen) to marry.

I've corresponded with dozens of people who survived these groups and they tell horror stories.

Just this week some 17 year old told his story to the news.  He was dragged to one of these ex-gay camps by his parents in handcuffs, drugged up, and physiologically abused.  After several weeks he escaped.

http://www.wreg.com/Global/story.asp?S=4454613


What is evil about this movement is not just the damage they do to the unsuspecting.  But they also do two things that are contrary to the teachings of Christ:

1.  They lie.  A lot.  They claim that gay people become straight, but only after the person is into it do they discover that they are only talking about labels.  If you claim to be ex-gay that simply means you changed what you call yourself.  These poor participants go in expecting that their same-sex desires will be replaced with opposite-sex desires and it just never happens.  They lie about a "homosexual lifestyle".  They tell young kids "if you live a homosexual lifestyle, you will die of AIDS" and a bunch of horrible bogus real-sounding "statistics" to fill them with fear.  And it's all a sham.

2.  Rather than feed the hungry and visit the sick, they seek to take away health insurance and get people fired.  They are political anti-gay activists.  They go before legislators and say "people have changed" (without telling them they only changed a label) so therefore it's OK to discriminate against gay people and pressure them to "change".  They pass out literature with bizarre claims that have no basis in fact (such as the average lifetime of a gay person is 42). 

PFOX actually tried to get school boards to stop anti-bullying efforts.  Yes - they actually campaigned to try to get schools to no longer say it is wrong to beat up gay kids. 

Fortunately - thank God - most decent people aren't willing to go that far.  When real Christians find out what these people are all about, they just can't reconcile the deception, cruelty, and plain evil with their relationship with God.  But most people just don't know.  Some preacher tells them about this pack of lies - usually he doesn't know any better - because the filthy-rich televangelists have figured out that if you attack the "gay agenda" then money comes pouring in.  And because these charlatans care nothing about truth or the harm they do, they push this vitriol and some 18 year old goes into a gay bar in Massachusetts with a hatchet and a gun this week to start a killing spree.  I wouldn't want to be Dr. Dobson when I stood before God in judgment.

Quite some friends your sister-in-law has.

(OK, I'll climb back down off my soapbox now)
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cyoung on February 09, 2006, 08:55:12 PM
[Quite some friends your sister-in-law has.

(OK, I'll climb back down off my soapbox now)

It's very depressing and disappointing to me. One good thing has come from it, though. I read her e-mail aloud to my husband (it's his sister) and told him she sent me the link to the "Parents and Friends of Ex-Gays" site. He said, in disbelief, "ex-gays?" and told me he thinks his sister is wrong: "You can't make a gay person ex-gay." He sounded disappointed and disgusted with her ignorance. He also said that she's been impressionable her whole life, never thinking for herself.

I'd been trying to get my husband to see the movie with me, and he'd been reluctant, so I'd let it go. But tonight he told me he wants to see it but "not to push him." Basically that translates to "Okay, I'm seeing it with you, but I'll choose the day."  :D

Cara
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: mary on February 09, 2006, 09:02:06 PM

I'd been trying to get my husband to see the movie with me, and he'd been reluctant, so I'd let it go. But tonight he told me he wants to see it but "not to push him." Basically that translates to "Okay, I'm seeing it with you, but I'll choose the day."  :D

Cara
Oh Cara - yeah!  I'm happy for you that you will get to see this film with your husband.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cyoung on February 09, 2006, 09:06:26 PM

I'd been trying to get my husband to see the movie with me, and he'd been reluctant, so I'd let it go. But tonight he told me he wants to see it but "not to push him." Basically that translates to "Okay, I'm seeing it with you, but I'll choose the day."  :D

Cara
Oh Cara - yeah!  I'm happy for you that you will get to see this film with your husband.

I am too. We are so close, and it was making me sad that I couldn't share this with him. He's always been great about seeing movies that a lot of other men won't see. He doesn't mind love stories and so-called "chick flicks." He saw Phantom of the Opera with me and loved it. So I'm happy. I think he will like Brokeback, even if it makes him a little uncomfortable. I told him it made me uncomfortable at first too.

Cara
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: TheEnigmatik1 on February 09, 2006, 11:29:24 PM
Update on my sister-in-law's response. In reply to my somewhat angry e-mail, she sent me the following link to "Parents and Friends of Ex-Gays."

http://www.pfox.org/asp/newsman/anmviewer.asp?a=175

I give up.

Cara

You know, this entire time I was hoping beyond all hope that she'd eventually come around. Optimism isn't my strong suit, but I tired really hard to believe in her for you, if nothing else. I am truly sorry that this person is a lost cause. Sometimes it's best just to drop certain things that to pull your hair out trying to get your point across. Great news about your hubby though! I hope you guys have a great time. I'm trying to get my partner to go see it again this weekend with some friends from work (I work in a very liberal office), but he was so shaken up after seeing it the first time, he doesn't know if he'll be able to sit through it again anytime soon.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: graylockV on February 10, 2006, 12:05:37 AM

I'd been trying to get my husband to see the movie with me, and he'd been reluctant, so I'd let it go. But tonight he told me he wants to see it but "not to push him." Basically that translates to "Okay, I'm seeing it with you, but I'll choose the day."  :D

Cara
Oh Cara - yeah!  I'm happy for you that you will get to see this film with your husband.

I am too. We are so close, and it was making me sad that I couldn't share this with him. He's always been great about seeing movies that a lot of other men won't see. He doesn't mind love stories and so-called "chick flicks." He saw Phantom of the Opera with me and loved it. So I'm happy. I think he will like Brokeback, even if it makes him a little uncomfortable. I told him it made me uncomfortable at first too.

Cara

Cara - I know I don't need to tell you this, but I hope you'll give him a big hug and kiss just for seeing the movie with you, irrespective of his reaction.  He knows the movie means a lot to you and his decision to see ii is a reflection of the respect he has for you. 

While it is a shame about your sister-in-law, she's not atypical; she serves as a reminder of what gay people - and any outsiders- face every day.

Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: this_is_real_love on February 10, 2006, 12:26:58 AM
I've got a scan of a article that was featued in a sydney newspaper that highlights Australian's reactions to the movie...its an interesting read! ;)

Does anyone know how I would be able to upload it for everyone to see? ??? Its saved in a paint doc.

thanks!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: this_is_real_love on February 10, 2006, 12:34:03 AM
I think I've managed to do it

I put it in my photobucket account....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/angel99n/scan003.jpg

Hope it works!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: killersmom on February 10, 2006, 12:35:29 AM
I've got a scan of a article that was featued in a sydney newspaper that highlights Australian's reactions to the movie...its an interesting read! ;)

Does anyone know how I would be able to upload it for everyone to see? ??? Its saved in a paint doc.

thanks!

TIRL, is there anyway to get the LINK of the article instead of the article itself. You could post that, and then it would  safe space and people just go directly to it.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: this_is_real_love on February 10, 2006, 12:40:20 AM
no link :(...the only way is through my photobucket account...sorry! :-[

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/angel99n/scan003.jpg
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: jack on February 10, 2006, 12:40:46 AM
True. It makes me sad because I'm so hoping that this movie WILL change the minds and hearts of people just like my sister-in-law. But it seems to have done just the opposite; it's as though they become even more firmly entrenched in their point of view.


cara...

a friend of mine has a saying he repeats.  it isn't new, but we both take comfort in it.

"you can't unring the bell"

what is heard, once heard, cannot be unheard.  no matter what the pronounced reaction, the information is now imprinted on the brain and must be dealt with.

heres a favorite of mine.  "he who plants the seed rarely gets to eat the apple".  you planted the seed, now let god bring it to fruition in his/her/its own time...

jack

     
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: killersmom on February 10, 2006, 12:48:30 AM
no link :(...the only way is through my photobucket account...sorry! :-[

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/angel99n/scan003.jpg

TIRL, do you have access to the newspaper itself, online version of the paper, if so you can go there bring up the article , rt click your mouse to create the shortcut, then bring it here and post as a link
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: jack on February 10, 2006, 12:52:47 AM

I'd been trying to get my husband to see the movie with me, and he'd been reluctant, so I'd let it go. But tonight he told me he wants to see it but "not to push him." Basically that translates to "Okay, I'm seeing it with you, but I'll choose the day."  :D

Cara
Oh Cara - yeah!  I'm happy for you that you will get to see this film with your husband.

I am too. We are so close, and it was making me sad that I couldn't share this with him. He's always been great about seeing movies that a lot of other men won't see. He doesn't mind love stories and so-called "chick flicks." He saw Phantom of the Opera with me and loved it. So I'm happy. I think he will like Brokeback, even if it makes him a little uncomfortable. I told him it made me uncomfortable at first too.

butcara, are you prepared for him to have an opinion not in synch with yours?  and to love him no less?  and to get off his back about it?  good, i was sure you would have seen it that way... ;D

jack
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: this_is_real_love on February 10, 2006, 01:06:13 AM
no link :(...the only way is through my photobucket account...sorry! :-[

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/angel99n/scan003.jpg

TIRL, do you have access to the newspaper itself, online version of the paper, if so you can go there bring up the article , rt click your mouse to create the shortcut, then bring it here and post as a link

worked out how to display it!! ;D

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/angel99n/scan003.jpg)

BTW I live in one of the areas that wasn't showing it BUT due to popular demand, they are showing it on Feb 16th. YAY!! Great to see so many Aussies accepting it! ;D
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: killersmom on February 10, 2006, 03:35:03 AM
TIRL, good job, and very ingeneous. I wasn't sure if the print would show up. Thanks so much for figuring it out and posting it. :D
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: killersmom on February 10, 2006, 04:37:08 AM
CLAP :o  OFF TOPIC   :o

Auntie would like to take this opportunity for all the virgins,::)  feet wets,:D  and experienceds :o  to come on over to the MEET & GREET board and post your picture in the member pic thread because we all would like to SEE what you look like.

As for you experts8) and obsesseds???, shame on you that you have not done so already :( You have no excuses  >:(

We also have a place to post your best bud pet pics (say that 3 times real fast :P) to show everyone their cute mugs to go along with your cute mug ;D

So to make it easy
so you have no excuses
heres the links

http://davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=109.0

http://davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=360.0

And so that there can be no more excuses because you say you are a technology dunderhead, we even have instructions on  how to post those pics for :D

http://davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=62.0

Now, be good and mind Auntie, and walk on over, see what we have to offer, because you might be surprised :o
...you may even run into someone you know :D

It's also a good way to remind yourself what you look like after you have had a marathon posting session, in case you get lost and can't remember how to get home ???

CLAP   ::) ON TOPIC  ::)
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cyoung on February 10, 2006, 05:06:38 AM
butcara, are you prepared for him to have an opinion not in synch with yours?  and to love him no less?  and to get off his back about it?  good, i was sure you would have seen it that way... ;D

jack

LOL. You've got a good point there....

Cara
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: trinket on February 10, 2006, 10:11:10 AM
CLAP :o  OFF TOPIC   :o

Auntie would like to take this opportunity for all the virgins,::)  feet wets,:D  and experienceds :o  to come on over to the MEET & GREET board and post your picture in the member pic thread because we all would like to SEE what you look like.

As for you experts8) and obsesseds???, shame on you that you have not done so already :( You have no excuses  >:(

We also have a place to post your best bud pet pics (say that 3 times real fast :P) to show everyone their cute mugs to go along with your cute mug ;D


CLAP   ::) ON TOPIC  ::)

UM....killersmom?  I want people to continue to LIKE me?  So why would I post a picture?
Oh, ok....I'll think about it.....now what did I do with my tiara?
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: killersmom on February 10, 2006, 10:24:34 AM
UM....killersmom?  I want people to continue to LIKE me?  So why would I post a picture?
Oh, ok....I'll think about it.....now what did I do with my tiara?

trinket, trinket,

If I posted my picture there and did not cause anyone to go screaming from the thread (at least they didn't tell me about it ::)) then I KNOW you can...
besides I will like you no matter what ;D

Make sure to wear the tiara ::)
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Humanist on February 11, 2006, 07:39:18 PM
Update on my sister-in-law's response. In reply to my somewhat angry e-mail, she sent me the following link to "Parents and Friends of Ex-Gays."

http://www.pfox.org/asp/newsman/anmviewer.asp?a=175

I give up.

Cara


Cara, you should respond with the following link:  http://exchristian.net/
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Carissa on February 11, 2006, 08:18:47 PM
Interesting words from Sir Ian McKellen:

Ian McKellen doubts 'Brokeback' effect for gay actors
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060211/ennew_afp/afpentertainmentfilm_060211230237

BERLIN (AFP) - British actor and gay activist Ian McKellen accepted a Golden Bear lifetime achievement award at the Berlin Film Festival and said he was still a rare exception as an openly homosexual star.

McKellen, 66, said that while the success of the Oscar-nominated gay cowboy movie "Brokeback Mountain" might open the door to more pictures on the subject of homosexuality, the industry had rigid ideas about leading men.

"It is very, very, very difficult for an American actor who wants a film career to be open about his sexuality. And even more difficult for a woman if she's lesbian. It's very distressing to me that that should be the case," he told a news conference.

"It's not true of actors on the other side of the American continent, on Broadway, where people are very at ease with being open and honest. But the film industry is very old fashioned in California."

He said his age and the roles he had selected meant that his own homosexuality had not been an obstacle.

"My own career in mainstream films really took off once I'd come out and said I was gay. And that's the way it should be because
Heath Ledger isn't gay nor am I straight and yet I can play straight parts and he can successfully play gay men. It'll fade away eventually."

[snip]

Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: paintedshoes on February 11, 2006, 08:22:06 PM
no link :(...the only way is through my photobucket account...sorry! :-[

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/angel99n/scan003.jpg

TIRL, do you have access to the newspaper itself, online version of the paper, if so you can go there bring up the article , rt click your mouse to create the shortcut, then bring it here and post as a link

worked out how to display it!! ;D

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/angel99n/scan003.jpg)

BTW I live in one of the areas that wasn't showing it BUT due to popular demand, they are showing it on Feb 16th. YAY!! Great to see so many Aussies accepting it! ;D
Hey, anyone know how to get in touch with David Potts (from the photo)? Yum!!!  Too bad he has a girlfriend.   :D
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: WLAGuy on February 11, 2006, 08:29:31 PM
Hey, anyone know how to get in touch with David Potts (from the photo)? Yum!!!  Too bad he has a girlfriend.   :D

From what I've seen, paintedshoes, pretty much all Aussies are about that hot.  And you should see the way they wear their Speedos!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: paintedshoes on February 11, 2006, 08:39:38 PM
Hey, anyone know how to get in touch with David Potts (from the photo)? Yum!!!  Too bad he has a girlfriend.   :D

From what I've seen, paintedshoes, pretty much all Aussies are about that hot.  And you should see the way they wear their Speedos!
Spit take on the keyboard, WLAGuy.  And red wine is not easy to clean off!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: mary on February 11, 2006, 09:16:15 PM
Went to see BBM again tonight on the spur of the moment.  The theater was Packed - not every seat full but close to 85% - there were even people in the front row.  This in a theater where BBM has been playing for 3 weeks already! Interestingly a showing of Capote was starting about the same time - it was not as full.

The audience was mostly groups of women and hetero couples.  As the credits ran, the woman next to me turned to me and said 'Wasn't that a great film?'
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: TahoeMom on February 11, 2006, 11:57:40 PM
ok, been lurking on the fun sites to see if I can turn the tide on the feelings.  Grrrrrrr! sorry to say that I spent an hour watching rodeo.. all those black hats.

that said, I have to tell you of two reactions that I received, the first being the night that I came home after seeing this for the first time. I drove an hour, got lost, had to use the GPS system on my cell to find my way, missed the first show, drove to the other side of Nevada and finally settled in.. the first viewing left me stunned.. only word I can think of .. I immediately needed to talk to someone about it.. couldn't find anyone and serendipity like, found a talk radio station that was doing call ins. Fortunately, it was the only liberal station in Nevada (I think anyway,) and was wonderful. Got home, and talked with a friend who was going to visit Tahoe that weekend. She too, needed to talk, but not the same reaction that I was having. She told that she was ok after the first showing, then had NIGHTMARES for three nights after that.  Nightmares? I inquired, about the murder scene, no, about the sex.... gees, I tried not to overreact and she said her husband finally asked her why she was going to see such filth....... I was stunned and then dropped the subject... the full impact of the movie hit me of course the day her and hubby were arriving for a day of skiing.  I honestly have to tell you that I will never be able to look at her the same way. I always knew that she was uptight, rigid, etc. but was always able to overlook it.  REALLY had trouble and just about had to tape my mouth closed so I wouldn't start an argument.  The whole evening I was tuned into the way that she talked to her two sons and it really sickened me. The big giant box that she is living in.. the way her marriage so sucks, the horrible fear that she is living under.. ugh... we have been friends for over 30 years (yep, high school and she was a pain in the ass then) but her reactions made me think more about how fear stops so many cold in their tracks.  Cara, you will not be able to change your sister in law and probably shouldn't bother.  She is too far gone into the box.  However, I have found that I have turned some many people on to this movie that it far outweighs the goobers.   Many friends who were reluctant have seen it and called me to say thanks. One guy even went so far as to say that he didn't want to see it because he thought it would make him cry and I think his wife almost had an orgasm listening to him be so vulnerable.

Good things take time, and as my daughter constantly says "karma, Mom, it's all about the karma".

We may not be able to change the world, just a tiny little piece of it....


Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: killersmom on February 12, 2006, 12:23:23 AM
However, I have found that I have turned some many people on to this movie that it far outweighs the goobers.   Many friends who were reluctant have seen it and called me to say thanks. One guy even went so far as to say that he didn't want to see it because he thought it would make him cry and I think his wife almost had an orgasm listening to him be so vulnerable.

Good things take time, and as my daughter constantly says "karma, Mom, it's all about the karma".

We may not be able to change the world, just a tiny little piece of it....

TahoeMom,
Your whole posting was wonderful. It states, unfortunately the more frequent (vocal-out of this forum) reaction to the movie. But I totally agree with the part I have quoted above. The people we, personally, touch and turn on to the wonderful love and lessons from this story of two souls in love, are the ones that count. If we have influenced only one, then it is worth it. It is one more who may further the love and acceptance so needed in this world today. If we multiply that by the amount of people who post on this forum, think of numbers out there.

I think this lesson, this story along with each of us, is going to change more than just a tiny little piece of this world. That is my hope, that is my prayer. Thank you for your wonderful insight...everyday I learn a little more, and it is due to the people...friends...I have here.

Realize that what you share here is positive, and that realization may turn the tide on your feelings as well.

We all start with baby steps....
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: TahoeMom on February 12, 2006, 12:34:46 AM
kmom, I realize that my feelings will turn, I just hope soon enough to get the laundry done, the dishes done, make dinner, etc. 

my daughter said it perfectly tonight as she was heading out with her new "crush", Mom, you got it bad, can we see it tomorrow so I can understand"..... yowsa!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: killersmom on February 12, 2006, 12:46:35 AM
kmom, I realize that my feelings will turn, I just hope soon enough to get the laundry done, the dishes done, make dinner, etc. 

my daughter said it perfectly tonight as she was heading out with her new "crush", Mom, you got it bad, can we see it tomorrow so I can understand"..... yowsa!

Trust me, it really will,and all too soon that stuff does return to be high on the priority list. Notice I did not say top of the list. I think that will always be reserved for BBM, no matter what.

Yowsa is right...and how lucky you are that she wants to go see it with you....remember baby steps :)
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: TahoeMom on February 12, 2006, 01:00:34 AM
kmom, yep she is quite the kid, mostly torture at this point as she questions and rebels at every turn, but what an incredible adult this one will make... if she survives that long. :D

seriously this kid of mine has empathy for just about anything.. deep beyond her years, and an acceptance of everyone... we were talking about beautiful people one day and I was babbling about someone and she said, "Mom, I think everyone is beautiful" and she meant it.  I cried... if I do nothing else right in my life....


 
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: killersmom on February 12, 2006, 01:31:42 AM
kmom, yep she is quite the kid, mostly torture at this point as she questions and rebels at every turn, but what an incredible adult this one will make... if she survives that long. :D

seriously this kid of mine has empathy for just about anything.. deep beyond her years, and an acceptance of everyone... we were talking about beautiful people one day and I was babbling about someone and she said, "Mom, I think everyone is beautiful" and she meant it.  I cried... if I do nothing else right in my life....

Just wait on this issue as well. I never thought my two would make it out alive either. I had my doubts about myself as well :-\
They are now 25 and 22. The older is married and is a PhD candidate and the younger is a FN first class in the US Coast Guard. So you see, this too shall pass :D

You are so right, if I accomplish nothings else in my life...
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Lance on February 12, 2006, 01:51:21 AM
what's an FN?
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: killersmom on February 12, 2006, 01:56:55 AM
what's an FN?


Abbreviation for the title of Fireman
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Lance on February 12, 2006, 02:26:06 AM
ah. thanks. :) couldn't think of what it could possibly be. limited imagination.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: RodneyWY on February 12, 2006, 05:45:16 AM
Today was #8 for me, only this time I was able to be accompanied by my 79 y/o mother, who is visiting me from Kansas.  We had discussed many aspects of the film (without spoilers, naturally) beforehand, so she was well prepared, and already informed of the film's importance to me.  She reacted to the film in the sympathetic, emotional way that I expected her to, and she sat glued to her seat through the end of the closing credits.  We then had a wonderful opportunity to react to each other's reactions and discuss even more aspects of the film.  One of the questions she had was the ambiguity of Jack's demise.  I believe I had thoroughly prepared her for the film experience, and she told me that she was so glad that she was able to see the film with me.  Anyone else had the experience of seeing the film with a parent?

Rodney
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Uclapeterg on February 12, 2006, 08:27:12 AM
what's an FN?


Abbreviation for the title of Fireman

Do you know where any are?  ;)
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: KathyinBama on February 12, 2006, 08:55:20 AM
I went for time number 4 last night.  Only 11 people present, but it was snowing a bit which may have kept people home.  I went with my 16 year old son.  It was interesting to me that while he liked the film, he didn't love it.  I think because he has never yet been in love nor lost the love of his life (as so many of us have), the film did not resonate with him in the way it has with so many people (myself included).  He actually thought the shirt thing was "corny" which I considered close to sacrilege!  We talked about the film afterward and it wasn't until later, when he went to bed, that I realized he had listed some things he really like (the cinematography was beatiful, I thought the actors were terrific, etc.) and some things he was less than crazy about (Didn't you think it was kind of predictable?  Why do these love stories always have someone die?), but he never mentioned the fact that the protagonists were both men.  I really think it was a non-issue for him, which gives me some hope for this younger generation.  My nephew, who is a year and a half older than my son, is openly gay in high school (here, in rural Alabama) and does not have problems for the most part.  I hope all of these things signal that our young people get it and are not following in the homophobic footsteps of their parents.  Or at least that fewer of them are.

Oh, and just for the record - time four - cried just as hard and loved it just as much.  I noticed a lot of details that posters here had pointed out to me.  Thanks, all.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: exlogcabin on February 12, 2006, 09:11:41 AM
Thanks for the report, Kathy.

So glad that the stereotype of Alabama doesn't always hold true.  I agree with you that the younger generation gets it.  My little brother, who is 23, totally is cool with it, too. Equality will be achieved some day.  It just may take time.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: carlton on February 12, 2006, 09:33:33 AM
Saw it again for 6th time yesterday at earliest showing saturday afternoon- They had moved it to a smaller theatre=probably about 50-60 people in attendance. Figured I wouldnt tear up,choke up,cry by the 6th time but  I was wrong. Audience was pretty quiet during the showing. A lot of elderly ladies in attendance- Only comment I heard from one of them to her friend was "It's a shame two men can fall so deeply in love" -Guess that could be a backhanded compliment to the film.   
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: CellarDweller115 on February 12, 2006, 10:02:25 AM
Anyone else had the experience of seeing the film with a parent?

Rodney

I took my mother (65) on the day after Christmas.  She loved it, but said that the sadest aspect of the movie to her was that Jack and Ennis wasted their lives, spending most of their time appart, missing each other.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: patroclus on February 12, 2006, 10:17:50 AM
  He actually thought the shirt thing was "corny" which I considered close to sacrilege! 

Well, I can remember first reading 'Tess of the D'Urbervilles' when I was 16 and being very dismissive of it at first - god, so obvious seduced by the cad, illegitimate baby which conveniently dies...etc. Then it hit me and I was really moved. But most people didn't get it. I don't think most 16 year olds, understandably, have a sense of the tragic. You feel like you can control the world and nothing can ever hurt you, more or less. And most haven't experienced the sort of bereavement where you hug your dead lover's shirt and your heart breaks. So it probably looks a bit fakey and forced to them. And you'd think, wouldn't you - why can't they just get together if that's what they want? Obvious.

Great to hear about your nephew, too.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: jack on February 12, 2006, 10:45:17 AM
kmom, yep she is quite the kid, mostly torture at this point as she questions and rebels at every turn, but what an incredible adult this one will make... if she survives that long. :D

seriously this kid of mine has empathy for just about anything.. deep beyond her years, and an acceptance of everyone... we were talking about beautiful people one day and I was babbling about someone and she said, "Mom, I think everyone is beautiful" and she meant it.  I cried... if I do nothing else right in my life....

Just wait on this issue as well. I never thought my two would make it out alive either. I had my doubts about myself as well :-\
They are now 25 and 22. The older is married and is a PhD candidate and the younger is a FN first class in the US Coast Guard. So you see, this too shall pass :D

You are so right, if I accomplish nothings else in my life...
isn't this a good excuse to post hunk pictures again?
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: killersmom on February 12, 2006, 11:01:29 AM
isn't this a good excuse to post hunk pictures again?

tsk tsk Jack,

.....as Auntie leaves this thread and moseys over to the pics ;D
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: WLAGuy on February 12, 2006, 11:08:37 AM
isn't this a good excuse to post hunk pictures again?

tsk tsk Jack,

.....as Auntie leaves this thread and moseys over to the pics ;D

Shouldn't that be "sidles over to the pics"?   :D :D
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: killersmom on February 12, 2006, 12:37:29 PM
Shouldn't that be "sidles over to the pics"?   :D :D

Yes indeed Guy,

a much better choice of words  ;D

...and I sidle quite well, I might add ;)
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: jack on February 12, 2006, 01:23:24 PM
i was, of course, referring to your own personal hunks  ;) ;) KM
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: killersmom on February 12, 2006, 01:27:01 PM
i was, of course, referring to your own personal hunks  ;) ;) KM

Yes I GOT that Jack ;) ::)

...and I do agree on your assessment ::)
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Passion on February 12, 2006, 07:09:15 PM
This was kind of exciting today---I talked to my very very very Catholic mother -in- law(65) and she said that she and a friend saw BBM last week and that she still cannot stop thinking about it!!! Yeah!  She said that the movie just pops into her head and she cannot figure out why!  She said that she was very puzzled about how Jack actually died and was just so sad that Jack and Ennis didn't have more time together!  Wow!  I really think this movie is doing good things for society and I am so happy that my mother-in-law saw it and loved it.  I think she liked even more than my very LIBERAL mother!  Just thought I would share my excitement!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: WLAGuy on February 12, 2006, 07:44:17 PM
This was kind of exciting today---I talked to my very very very Catholic mother -in- law(65) and she said that she and a friend saw BBM last week and that she still cannot stop thinking about it!!! Yeah!  She said that the movie just pops into her head and she cannot figure out why!  She said that she was very puzzled about how Jack actually died and was just so sad that Jack and Ennis didn't have more time together!  Wow!  I really think this movie is doing good things for society and I am so happy that my mother-in-law saw it and loved it.  I think she liked even more than my very LIBERAL mother!  Just thought I would share my excitement!

People's reactions to this movie never cease to amaze me, Passion.  Just when I think nothing else could surprise me, I read posts like yours.  "No reins on this one," for sure. 
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: jpq716 on February 12, 2006, 07:46:35 PM
Folks, I just want you to know that I have done my little part for the film. This afternoon, one of my cyber-friends, who is very conservative, went to see the movie. His wife is momentarily out of the country on business, and because he was frightened to see the movie alone (you know, people might think that he was one of "them" and prowling the theater for a three-minute hook-up), he went with a good friend of his (who also is very conservative and has not seen the movie). He just sent me a brief e-mail a couple of minutes ago, telling me that he had seen the movie with his friend, as he most reluctantly promised me that he would. He told me that it was "a great film," just as I had told him that it was, and he admitted that it had devastated them both so much that they proceeded to get wasted in order to cope with the first stages of its emotional impact. He promised that he would let me know, in detail, what he thought about the film later on this week.

THIS is the power of the film. Not all the awards and not all the controversy, folks. The film ITSELF is the power, long after the Oscars are won or lost. Brokeback Mountain just tells it like it is, like it has always been --- but hopefully, as a result of great works of art like this one, not like it must ever be.

Great social changes occur by millions of tiny little steps, one at a time. I feel at peace now. I have done my job. And I just wanted you to know about it.... :D :D :D
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: BillKCMO on February 12, 2006, 09:53:35 PM
jpq716:  Beautiful story!  It would be fascinating to know more about your friend's reactions.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: terry on February 13, 2006, 02:49:53 AM
  I went to a surprise birthday party for my older sister.  During the party my younger sister said her friend gave her some bootleg copies of some movies.  Guess which movie came up?  She and my brother-in-law saw the film and she said she thought it was great.  She said couldn't understand why some right-wingers were bashing the film.  My brother-in-law thought it was a well-made, well-written, and especially well-directed film.  He said he can't imagine anyone but Ang Lee winning for best director.  He admitted he had some discomfort during the initial sex scenes but once he got over that it was very enjoyable.  I made her promise to get me a copy.  Don't worry I'm still gonna see it at the theatre but I truly want my own BBM DVD, even if it's a copy.  Can't wait!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Boris on February 13, 2006, 03:25:44 AM
I had an interesting phone conversation with a friend yesterday.

This may come as surprise to some of you in US but the age limit of Brokeback in Finland is eleven. Anyways, my Friend's oldest daughter is now 14. her class at school go to see two movies/semester together as part of a school curriculum. The class get to choose the movie (with teachers vetoing if necessary, of course). This time their WHOLE class wanted to see Brokeback. The teachers resisted at first but the class was adamant and they all went to see it. The reaction?

They thought that the "ending was stupid" because "why couldn't they be together"? They has had good discussions, NOT about homosexuality, but losing of a friend, what does it mean to fall in love, and about harassment and violence and what it is like to be perceived different. My friend is divorced and she said that for the first time her daughter had shared her feelings about it with her classmates and later with her.

And why had the teachers objected at first. They were afraid of the reaction of parents (there was no parental written consent procedure beforehand). Not one parent had complained, not one.

Thank God for the next generation and sometimes I am so proud of living in here up north.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: killersmom on February 13, 2006, 05:13:03 AM
I had an interesting phone conversation with a friend yesterday.

This may come as surprise to some of you in US but the age limit of Brokeback in Finland is eleven. Anyways, my Friend's oldest daughter is now 14. her class at school go to see two movies/semester together as part of a school curriculum. The class get to choose the movie (with teachers vetoing if necessary, of course). This time their WHOLE class wanted to see Brokeback. The teachers resisted at first but the class was adamant and they all went to see it. The reaction?

They thought that the "ending was stupid" because "why couldn't they be together"? They has had good discussions, NOT about homosexuality, but losing of a friend, what does it mean to fall in love, and about harassment and violence and what it is like to be perceived different. My friend is divorced and she said that for the first time her daughter had shared her feelings about it with her classmates and later with her.

And why had the teachers objected at first. They were afraid of the reaction of parents (there was no parental written consent procedure beforehand). Not one parent had complained, not one.

Thank God for the next generation and sometimes I am so proud of living in here up north.

Boris, thank you so much for your post. I wish the philosophy that abounds over there would translate over here.
The reaction by the 14 yo is not surprising because they are still of the age when everything should have a happy ending...out of the mouths of babes :)

Isn't it wonderful that the only thing they saw was friendship and love, and the harassment and violence when one is different. This movie opens up so many lines of communication, such a great thing.

There is hope for this next generation, hopefully in this country as well.

Thanks for sharing
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: paintedshoes on February 13, 2006, 01:13:32 PM
THIS is the power of the film. Not all the awards and not all the controversy, folks. The film ITSELF is the power, long after the Oscars are won or lost. Brokeback Mountain just tells it like it is, like it has always been --- but hopefully, as a result of great works of art like this one, not like it must ever be.

Great social changes occur by millions of tiny little steps, one at a time. I feel at peace now. I have done my job. And I just wanted you to know about it.... :D :D :D

jpq716, just saw your post and loved it.  You are right about tiny little steps, but with you and all of us here gently guiding (or shoving, as the case may be) people who may be resistant, the strides may become longer.  Thank you for doing such a great job.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: waynerman on February 13, 2006, 02:28:41 PM
This may come as surprise to some of you in US but the age limit of Brokeback in Finland is eleven. Anyways, my Friend's oldest daughter is now 14. her class at school go to see two movies/semester together as part of a school curriculum. The class get to choose the movie (with teachers vetoing if necessary, of course). This time their WHOLE class wanted to see Brokeback. The teachers resisted at first but the class was adamant and they all went to see it.

This post just stunned me. When I was a freshman in high school, way back sometime in the last century, the big, controversial movie was Franco Zeffirelli's Romeo and Juliet. My class got to go see it, though some students weren't able to attend because their parents wouldn't sign the release form. They were concerned about the "nudity" in the film--a mere glimpse of Leonard Whiting's backside!

When I suggested to a coworker that she take her 14-year-old daughter to see BBM, she looked at me as if I'd lost my mind.

I hope we catch up with Finland someday....
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cyoung on February 13, 2006, 07:31:47 PM
I was planning to take a break from the forum -- I've been spending way too much time here and getting too emotionally involved, and I felt I needed to regain some balance. So I signed off earlier today, but then, this afternoon, I received the following e-mail from my sister-in-law. I need some help in how to respond, or advice on whether I should respond at all. Do I let it go, or try to address her questions and challenge her statements? I was debating whether to post this e-mail, but even thinking about how to respond makes my brain hurt, and I would appreciate your thoughts or help. This is the continuation of the earlier e-mail discussions I was having with her after we saw the movie (discussed several pages back in this thread).

Cara

Here's the e-mail:

Quote
So are the gays a "minority" that deserve equal rights? ie marriage? Two guys getting married? Two women getting married? Raising kids? how about an old guy(age 65) and a kid who's 15? Let's allow them to marry, if they love eachother. How about 3 women marrying eachother? What's the difference. Why not? As long as there's love. I think marriage between a man and a woman is an institution created by God. I think it was created to protect children. Who are we to change the rules?

They can be who they want, (or who they are) but, among other things, they want their "religion" preached in public schools and are demanding equal rights. (their agenda) And I think that's why the Christian right objects so strongly. You can't display a cross on your desk if you're a christian teacher, but you can certainly display a rainbow triangle, to let kids know that you support the gay agenda, and that being gay is fine.  But they won't admit it's a gay rights symbol--they'll call it a "diversity" symbol. Interesting.  And christians are considered bigots and gay haters because they disagree, and don't want this agenda taught to their children. 

I don't dare think that it's my job to change a person's sexual orientation. It's offensive and I personally would never preach that to someone.  But do I want my children to be taught that homosexuality is a normal and healthy option? No.  Do I think that children are better off being raised by a father and a mother? Yes!

I think your point about the "gay lifestyle" is good. But I still think that it could be possible to not live out your urges if you're gay.  Maybe they could live a fulfilling life in touch with God, not acting out their same sex attraction.  The personal testimonies of people who have turned away from it are real.

Is it possible that some gays hate PFOX because it touches a raw nerve? It challenges the assumption that if you have gay urges, then you're gay and that's just who you are.

Can't gay people already do what they want in the bedroom? Can't they create a legal document that allows their partner to receive an inheritance if they die?  Can't they also have a legal document drawn up that allows their partner to see them in the hospital if they're in intensive care?  That's not my business. But teaching my kids your views IS my business. Using tax dollars is also my business.

Cara, do you agree that there is a gay agenda? How could you not?


Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Joetheone on February 13, 2006, 07:53:05 PM
Cara,
A message to your sister I believe should have quoted now my mind is clogged whatever your relative.  Anyhow I"m a 41 year old man and when I was 17 I met and entered a relationship with a man 10 years older who had two children one 7 and one 9 his wife had not wanted to raise them so we did.  I being so young was nervous but in the end all is well.  They are now in their 30's and both married and have children of their own.  So I'm a young grandfather in a way but I was with them from 7 and 9 until.  All through raising them with my partner at the time we gave them choices in life let them choose their religioin I had them attend just about every denomination we could find in our area but I wanted them exposed to religion myself being raised Methodist felt religion is important for instilling beliefs in things.  Even though now I'm a Spiritualist the one girl chose Catholic and the other chose to be a buddist.  My partner and I took them from our small town to places like New York city and Europe and wanted them both to be exposed to all sorts of people and places.  I always insisted that when the 4 of us planned our family trips we all study about the place and the people and experience the customs of the area.  It was always a learning experience for them. All through school I never received a problem with attending their school events and things neither one was the type to get into trouble so never visited the principles office even though the one was head of her class and the other was not so high up but was prom queen and so forth. The only issues for them was some families of theirs did not want their children coming to our home to have sleep overs and parties but the girls always took this in stride and just said they were not smart people.  AS all teenage girls they still had lots of slumber parties and so forth and the other girls parents always commented we had the best snacks and the best entertainment.  When they both finished college their father and I split up to be honest I stayed in the relationship for the girls because their father was an alcoholic and I could not stand that.  Both girls totaly understood our breakup and when they both got married their real father and I both walked them down the isle.  My oldest in-laws family mostly boycotted the wedding but that was their loss it was at a very nice country club and the priest was actually very nice even though he said he did not approve of our lifestyle he also admitted that we raised too very special girls.  Now that they live far away and have children of their own. I'm happy to say they are both in very good relationships and they are instilling some of the same values I tried to teach them all of us recently took a camping trip together last summer and then took the children to Boston for the freedom trail.  It was such a great experience they now accept my new partner and we are a family.  To say that gay people cannot raise children is so wrong and to say that gay parents raise gay children is wrong also.  Both of them live the typical heterosexual life and both of them are so supportive of alternative lifestyles I think they are truly special and hopefully in several generations things will change more and more.  I think back to the movie "guess whose coming to dinner" in that time period people could not even think that a black man could marry a white girl  Well, after almost 40 years it is still unacceptable but a little better then in the 60's so hopefully 40 years from now when I'm 80 it will be better for gay people as well.  I just think that people need to know that just because you choose to spend your life with someone of the same sex does not mean we are out to recruit everyone to be as we are.  I would never have chosen to be gay it is so hard to be different from the normal.  I would much rather not have the desire to be with someone of the same sex but that is who i am and if people do not want to know me because of that it is their loss not mine.  It is also funny i was an eagle scout and I resigned from the scouts because of their feelings on gays.  it is their losss as well. I hope this helps out alittle.

Joe
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: bluemoon on February 13, 2006, 08:03:35 PM

Hey, Cara, here is my take.

Tell your sister-in-law the following.

1. Tell her that in the USA constitution, churches are supposed to separate from states and people are entitled the freedom of religion (or no religion).  Marriage is NOT a mere institution created by God.  It is also part of human legal system.  Using one's religious beliefs to deny others' social rights is unfair and unconstitutional. 

2. Christianity is not the only religion in this country. What if a person who believes in a religion that supports gay marriage, can he/ she can married?


3. Tell her not to confuse different issues altogether.  Can an old guy marry a 15 year-old (boy or girl)?  It is a different matter.  This is an issue of how the society thinks when a person could be mature enough to make a life-time commitment.  Gay marriage is a different matter; it is about whether adults who love each other can get married, regardless of their genders.  3 women marrying each other? Why not?  If they are happy, who are we to judge and intervene?

4. Gay rights are a social right issue, not a religious issue.  The separation of churches from states prevents the public school to touch religions.  Social issues (as she put it, a diversity issue) are part of the public education.

5. Tell her that she must have forgotten how many benefits she has enjoyed from getting married.  Ask her how much will she lose if she did not marry to her husband and just signed a legal document that allows her "partner" to see her in the hospital if she is in intensive care and that allows her partner to receive an inheritance if she dies.  Will that piece of legal document be enough for her?  If she said yet, then show her this (http://www.thetaskforce.org/downloads/FightingFor.pdf).  This pdf file shows the rights she has enjoyed, while a gay couple, no matter how long they have been together, cannot.  Then, ask her again, will that piece of legal document she said be enough?
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: paintedshoes on February 13, 2006, 08:19:03 PM
Dearest Cara,
Some people like your sister-in-law are so rigid in their beliefs that no one can change them.  Joetheone and bluemoon both make excellent and valid point and I strongly recommend that you show her both of these posts.  But...they will not change her mind.  Nothing will.  What you have to decide is whether or not the fight is worth the pain that this is obviously causing you.  I don't know that it is.  There are people in my life (relatives) who believe as your sister-in-law.  Nothing will change them either.  Is your sanity worth a fight with people who have no tolerance? NO.  Live YOUR life.  Accept that she will never adjust her thinking and don't waste your time, your heart on a really unnecessary fight.  Agree to disagree.  If that seems trite, well, maybe it is, but sometimes we just have to give up the lost causes.  If she challenges you again, ignore her.  Delete her e-mails or say thanks for the comments, I have to go now.  Passivity has it's uses.  Just remember that there are people in the world who know the right, who understand who YOU are and care. We are here.  Stay here in your home, where you belong.  Let the rest of it go, honey, for your sake.
All love, from your sister!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cyoung on February 13, 2006, 08:24:23 PM
Thanks, all, for your replies. Part of me wants to just let it go, but the "fighter against injustice" part of me wants to challenge her. The only problem (and it's a biggie) is that I don't have much emotional energy right now.

Cara
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: paintedshoes on February 13, 2006, 08:28:33 PM
Then, honey, just let it go for now.  There is no law that says that you have to fight the good fight (and it IS) today or tomorrow.  Husband your strength.  Give it time.  Rest.  You are safe here to help you til you can fight if that is what you choose.  Know that we all love you and are on your side, whatever you decide to do, dear, dear, sister of my heart.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: MellorSJ on February 13, 2006, 08:28:57 PM
I was planning to take a break from the forum -- I've been spending way too much time here and getting too emotionally involved, and I felt I needed to regain some balance. So I signed off earlier today, but then, this afternoon, I received the following e-mail from my sister-in-law.
Cara,

I'm so sorry your sister-in-law is so (I search for the word here) threatened. For that is what I think it is.  Everywhere in her message in fear; in fact, there is nothing but fear--and anger.

And that's my first reaction too.  Anger, with a desire to lash out at her, and to answer each one of her (sorry) asinine questions.  Of course, that would be self-defeating.

I reckon (from her fears) that she has children.  How would she feel if one of her children were gay?   Perhaps she would blame Brokeback.  But if we could put that aside for a second, maybe "How would you feel if one of your children were gay?"  "Would you want him/her to live without love?"  "Would you want him/her not to have the option to have children, and share the joy you have?"  My point is that answering her questions directly cannot work because it sets up a confrontation, as do rhetorical ones.  But putting her in the place of answering the question for herself (as Brokeback did--less of an "agenda-movie" would be hard to find, which is its very genius), has a hope of making her feel the sickening impact of her views.

Your challenge is not to fight her, but to engage her and make answer her own questions, not in the abstract, but for her own children, whom she clearly wants to "protect" at all costs.  And then sit back and let her wallow in her answers.  Like Brokeback, the impact is felt less in the moment, but later.  Perhaps when she discovers she little sweet boy is rather enchanted by another.  (Sorry.  My own anger resurfacing.) 

If she answers without compassion or empathy, then you have her measure.  I'm so sorry you have to deal with this.

-- stephen
PS In answer to the "agenda" question, I have to say No.  If I tell you a story by selecting facts that suit you (Fahrenheit 411 springs to mind), sure, that's an agenda.  But if you provide unvarnished facts, for there *are* people like J&E, and you do not comment one way or the other, no, it's not an agenda.  (If it were, any argument that intends to prove a point would be an agenda.  ("Things fall towards each other."  "You have a gravity agenda!")
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Timothy on February 13, 2006, 08:29:06 PM
Ah, Cara, I feel for you. 

If it's any help, here's some advice:

Quote
Cara, do you agree that there is a gay agenda? How could you not?

Yes there is a gay agenda and it is this:  that gay people have exactly the same rights (neither more nor less) as heterosexual people.  Equal.  Fair.  No special privileges or rewards for being heterosexual or for being homosexual.

Pretty scary, huh?  Treating everyone the same without rewarding your sister-in-law because she happened to be born straight. 

(yeah, yeah, I know.. .she'll say gay people "aren't born that way" but so far all of the genetic research says that genes play a part along with inter-uteri hormones)


Quote
Can't gay people already do what they want in the bedroom?

Only since June 26, 2003 have gay people had the right to do what they want in the bedroom.  And the religious right still claims that was judicial activism and wrong and bad and should be overturned.  Ask her if she thinks homosexuality should be recriminalized.

Quote
Can't they create a legal document that allows their partner to receive an inheritance if they die?

Well, actually, no.  Not like she supposes.  If her husband dies, she inherits.  If a gay person dies, their partner can become a beneficiary but the estate is subject to taxes and the will can be challenged by relatives.

Quote
Can't they also have a legal document drawn up that allows their partner to see them in the hospital if they're in intensive care?

It depends on the State.  Some good Christians have passed anti-gay marriage laws that seem to invalidate hospital visitation (Nebraska for example).

Besides, why should gay people have to spend thousands of dollars to get what she can get for free?  Does your sister-in-law think that is fair?  Is she willing to do unto others as she'd have them do unto her; or does she think she deserves special treatment for free that gay people should have to hire an attorney to get?

She seems pretty upset about education because the schools aren't teaching her religion.  She seems to think there's some gay religion.  That's delusional.


Quote
But I still think that it could be possible to not live out your urges if you're gay.  Maybe they could live a fulfilling life in touch with God, not acting out their same sex attraction.  The personal testimonies of people who have turned away from it are real.

Sure, someone could choose celibacy.  But it is incredibly arrogant of your sister-in-law to decide for them.  What she forgets is that "turning away from it" doesn't mean they're straight.  They're just choosing to repress their lives.  She has decided that the appropriate thing for gay people is to remain alone and never have either a sexual experience or a love relationship in their lives.  Ever.  And that is not only presumption, it's downright cruel.

Fortunately, my church doesn't teach that.  If they did, I'd have to question how I could worship a Deity that was heartless and cruel.  I would have to find a church that didn't think that it was God's will for people to live without love, ever.

And finally:

Quote
Is it possible that some gays hate PFOX because it touches a raw nerve? It challenges the assumption that if you have gay urges, then you're gay and that's just who you are.

No.  Actually if there were an organization that gave support to people unhappy being gay and who wanted to live celibate, there would be no problem.  That's not what PFOX is.

They are a political lobby group.

All that they do (yes, all) is to lobby organizations and political bodies to enact anti-gay positions. 

What I find most interesting about their claims is that they say it is possible to not be gay.  But then they say that there is persecution against ex-gays.  But wouldn't those "not gay" ex-gays be straight?  There certainly isn't discrimination against straight people.  It's a bizarre circular way of thinking which has nothing at all (truly nothing) to do with helping anyone and has everything to do with politics and lobbying.

From your sister-in-law's e-mail it's pretty clear that she thinks of gay people as "them".  And she doesn't like "them" and frankly doesn't care whether she's fair or reasonable or just. 

But she's not content with supporting inequality and discrimination.  She also wants absolved from any criticism about it.  She want to simultaneously be anti-gay and also not be called a bigot or homophobe.

Why?  If she want to support bigotry, why not be proud to be called a bigot?  If you want preferential treatment because you aren't gay, why not be proud to be called homophobic.  If you think of gay people as "other" and want to actively deny them rights because you disapprove, why not be proud to be call a hater. 

Because deep inside she knows she's wrong.  She knows it isn't right to hate.  She knows it's wrong to make one set of rules for herself and another for gay people.  And she just doesn't want to confront it.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cyoung on February 13, 2006, 08:38:43 PM
I know this is coming from anger, but I'm tempted to just reply, "Why the F- did you even see the movie with me, then? Why did you WANT to see the movie?" I sure as heck didn't drag her to it kicking & screaming. But now this.

When I re-read the e-mail, I realized that the writing style sounds more like that of my b-i-l than my s-i-l. They share an e-mail account. I think he either helped her write it or wrote it for her (let's hope it was at least with her permission). A lot of this stuff I've heard from HIM before, but not from her.

Cara
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Lance on February 13, 2006, 08:41:01 PM
Cara, your sister-in-law is beyond reason; she does not believe in reason as a way of finding truth. she has adopted a system of belief created by someone else and has not worked it out on her own.

if she thinks that equal rights is the gay agenda, then tell her that the agenda of the founding fathers of the United States of America was equal rights for all humans. it is the very foundation of America.  if she does not believe in equal rights she is not an American, no matter what she calls herself.


''I don't dare think that it's my job to change a person's sexual orientation.''
a person so arrogant and conceited so as to believe that their own belief system is the only correct one would dare anything. she certainly dares plenty of other shamefully wrong restrictions on other people's behaviour.

her lack of sympathy for other humans is the very thing that demonstrates that she does not follow the teachings of Jesus, that she is not a Christian, no matter what she calls herself or her particular religious sect.

yes i am really pissed off at such ignorant arrogance as she displays in virtually every phrase.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: bluemoon on February 13, 2006, 08:43:07 PM
Hi, Cara, whether the email comes from your b-i-l or s-i-l, does it really matter?  As paintedshoes pointed out, you have to decide whether you are ready to take this fight.

Personally, I just love Timothy's response.  It is right on the money.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cyoung on February 13, 2006, 08:43:38 PM
Then, honey, just let it go for now.  There is no law that says that you have to fight the good fight (and it IS) today or tomorrow.  Husband your strength.  Give it time.  Rest.  You are safe here to help you til you can fight if that is what you choose.  Know that we all love you and are on your side, whatever you decide to do, dear, dear, sister of my heart.

Thank you for your kindness and support!  :)

Cara
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: MellorSJ on February 13, 2006, 08:44:01 PM
Ah, Cara, I feel for you. 

My! You all have been busy while I was composing my reply.

I stick by my advice that answering her question is not gonna work.  It sets up confrontation and it does not use her strength in your favor.  Your SIL's strength is her love for her children. Make that work for you.

Timothy's arguments (I quoted only the first line for reference) are cogent, and I agree with them.  But I think your SIL's heart rules her brain, and direct appeals to it can only fail, though they're a good back up for her limited moments of lucidity.

(BTW, PFOX's arguments do not touch my nerve.  I spent the majority of my life not acting on my gay impulses, mostly out of fear (much as I imagine Ennis would have lived had he not met Jack.)  They don't go away.  PFOX's arguments are based on a false premise--that refusing to act on the impulse is the same as rejecting it.  Believe me, I tried to do just that.  Won't work, because it is--by definition--how I feel.)
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Humanist on February 13, 2006, 08:44:08 PM
Cara,

They must be handing out this Gay Agenda in churches across the country because every Christian who talks about it sounds exactly the same!  Here is my advice: DON'T BOTHER.  Arguing with a christian conservative is as productive as arguing with any other type of schizophrenic.  You are dealing with the kind of people who think men once lived inside a whale, donkeys could talk and men could walk on water.  How do you expect such a person to be capable of rational thought?  If she sends you links to ex-gay web sites, I suggest you e-mail her a link to the following great site that I would recommend:   www.nobeliefs.com   

Good luck!



I was planning to take a break from the forum -- I've been spending way too much time here and getting too emotionally involved, and I felt I needed to regain some balance. So I signed off earlier today, but then, this afternoon, I received the following e-mail from my sister-in-law. I need some help in how to respond, or advice on whether I should respond at all. Do I let it go, or try to address her questions and challenge her statements? I was debating whether to post this e-mail, but even thinking about how to respond makes my brain hurt, and I would appreciate your thoughts or help. This is the continuation of the earlier e-mail discussions I was having with her after we saw the movie (discussed several pages back in this thread).

Cara

Here's the e-mail:

Quote
So are the gays a "minority" that deserve equal rights? ie marriage? Two guys getting married? Two women getting married? Raising kids? how about an old guy(age 65) and a kid who's 15? Let's allow them to marry, if they love eachother. How about 3 women marrying eachother? What's the difference. Why not? As long as there's love. I think marriage between a man and a woman is an institution created by God. I think it was created to protect children. Who are we to change the rules?

They can be who they want, (or who they are) but, among other things, they want their "religion" preached in public schools and are demanding equal rights. (their agenda) And I think that's why the Christian right objects so strongly. You can't display a cross on your desk if you're a christian teacher, but you can certainly display a rainbow triangle, to let kids know that you support the gay agenda, and that being gay is fine.  But they won't admit it's a gay rights symbol--they'll call it a "diversity" symbol. Interesting.  And christians are considered bigots and gay haters because they disagree, and don't want this agenda taught to their children. 

I don't dare think that it's my job to change a person's sexual orientation. It's offensive and I personally would never preach that to someone.  But do I want my children to be taught that homosexuality is a normal and healthy option? No.  Do I think that children are better off being raised by a father and a mother? Yes!

I think your point about the "gay lifestyle" is good. But I still think that it could be possible to not live out your urges if you're gay.  Maybe they could live a fulfilling life in touch with God, not acting out their same sex attraction.  The personal testimonies of people who have turned away from it are real.

Is it possible that some gays hate PFOX because it touches a raw nerve? It challenges the assumption that if you have gay urges, then you're gay and that's just who you are.

Can't gay people already do what they want in the bedroom? Can't they create a legal document that allows their partner to receive an inheritance if they die?  Can't they also have a legal document drawn up that allows their partner to see them in the hospital if they're in intensive care?  That's not my business. But teaching my kids your views IS my business. Using tax dollars is also my business.

Cara, do you agree that there is a gay agenda? How could you not?



Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: paintedshoes on February 13, 2006, 08:49:28 PM
Then, honey, just let it go for now.  There is no law that says that you have to fight the good fight (and it IS) today or tomorrow.  Husband your strength.  Give it time.  Rest.  You are safe here to help you til you can fight if that is what you choose.  Know that we all love you and are on your side, whatever you decide to do, dear, dear, sister of my heart.

Thank you for your kindness and support!  :)

Cara
I'm always here for you, true sister, but I can't help but laugh when I see that you are (once again) a VIRGIN among us! :D :D :D  Rest, sister, before you make decisions, rest.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: jpq716 on February 13, 2006, 08:54:52 PM
So sorry, Cara, but you have to decide just how close you want to keep these people in your life. If you want them to stay in your life, then you have to put a moritorium when you are in their presence on this particular facet of your political consciousness; conversely, if you cannot keep your political consciousness out of your everyday relations with these people, then you have to consider the possibility that you are going to lose them once and for all at some point in the future. Of course, there is also a third, and very sad, possibility, viz. that they will use this incident in the future as a wedge to convert you to their point of view or, if that proves impossible, to drive you into a state of distracted confusion. If this third option turns out to be the truth --- as I earnestly hope that it is not, since I value family ties highly --- then the decision about your relationship with them has already been made by them, and your only sensible course of action is to protect your soul from their destructive influence on it.

My sympatheties, Cara, on your dilemma. But situations like yours are precisely the reason why it is so hard to get movies like Brokeback Mountain made. Art, for the most part, is used by our society  to smoothe over vital differences and to maintain a social facade of sterile harmony. When a work of art like this one goes against the grain, then there is a hell to pay! Your current difficulties, which are yet another "goddamn bitch of an unsatisfactory situation," are just part of that hell. Best of luck to you, Cara, in your struggle to fight out of that abyss.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: BillKCMO on February 13, 2006, 08:57:20 PM
paintedshoes:  I always love your posts, and their tone and wisdom.

Timothy:  Great comments!

Cara:  I tend to agree with paintedshoes:  You have to manage resources -- including emotions and time -- and the healthiest way to deal with this -- if sad -- may be to completely let the matter go.  The samples I've read of your sister-of-law's thinking -- which have been horrifying -- tell me that mere words are very unlikely to change her.  I might have suggested a variation on something Timothy said, which is to ask her to imagine, as vividly as possible, growing up as a gay person...and what it might feel like to be a gay person, and to be on the other side of her comments about "the gay agenda"...  Again, see if she could imagine this as vividly as possible....  Maybe you could even invite her to do a role play:  She plays a gay person, you play an anti-gay-rights "Christian."  In your role, you could tell her about resenting people trying to violate thousands of years of tradition [not exactly true -- if you look in some places in history, and in some other cultures] blah blah blah -- addressing her directly, as if she were gay -- and ask her to respond, in her role as "a gay person."  That *might* be powerful -- *if* she's game.  (It would be much better to do this in person instead of over the phone.)

Her comment about "finding God" as an alternative to accepting one's homosexuality tells me that she is, sadly, capable of being very mean.  While she probably thinks that comment is righteous and wonderful, on my end of a real life non-role-play, *it brings tears to my eyes*.  It's non-understanding, non-empathic, and cruel.

If seems like an emotional transformation would be necessary for her to change.  This may be a little sneaky, but I wonder if there couldn't be some way for a gay or lesbian person, someone she would like, to be brought into her life....  A friend of yours perhaps?  Someone she could get to know, and like...  After all, "Brokeback Mountain" is "just a movie."  A living, breathing gay person could be more affecting....

Has your sister-in-law ever been in therapy?
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cyoung on February 13, 2006, 08:57:25 PM
I'm always here for you, true sister, but I can't help but laugh when I see that you are (once again) a VIRGIN among us! :D :D :D  Rest, sister, before you make decisions, rest.

I know. Silly of me to delete my account instead of just taking a break. Maybe there's a way to hook up the old account with the newly created one. Then again, sometimes it's fun to be a virgin all over again.  :D

Cara
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: paintedshoes on February 13, 2006, 08:59:49 PM
I'm always here for you, true sister, but I can't help but laugh when I see that you are (once again) a VIRGIN among us! :D :D :D  Rest, sister, before you make decisions, rest.

I know. Silly of me to delete my account instead of just taking a break. Maybe there's a way to hook up the old account with the newly created one. Then again, sometimes it's fun to be a virgin all over again.  :D

Cara
Check with Melisande.  She knows all, sees all.  Good to see a smile, sis
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Lola on February 13, 2006, 09:00:45 PM
Hmm I am just reading this now, I can't believe she even went and saw the movie with you.  And if she did and based on what she has said, I am wondering if she is struggling with her own sexuality, is that a possibility?

Otherwise I don't see where her anger is coming from?

But I think we have to be careful and not think that her feelings are the feelings of all Christians.  I am Catholic, I believe that Jesus did walk on water, but I am not a nut! 


She doesn't follow the teachings of Christ, not even close, and she can call herself what ever she likes, but her beliefs are not Christian.

I don't know what your relationship is with her otherwise, but personally I wouldn't have her as a friend.  My SIL's are my friends, they are people I love and want to be around. 

(((HUGS))))
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: exlogcabin on February 14, 2006, 02:53:25 AM
Dear Cara,

Thanks for sharing your personal situation.  It's unfortunate that you have to go through so much pain.  But as many gays and lesbians have found out, sometimes you just have to walk away from hurtful situations.

As a Buddhist, we are taught that there is negativity all around us, and that we must take delight in the goodness in life.   I am glad you are part of this community and you can feel the love and support here.  Perhaps you can use that is the guiding force in your life.

If you chose to continue the conversation with them, my suggestion would be to keep it simple.  Do not argue the minute details with this person. It is obvious that they have thought of every conceivable point.  But hold fast to your own core values.  Assuming you are Christian, I would tell them what you know of the Bible and what it teaches you.  From the many Christians that I know, they talk of Jesus as a kind person who loves all and preaches charity and kindness.  These are the true values of Christians, not the hate and exclusion that has been used to justify slavery, anti-miscegenation laws and women as second-class citizens.  Those are the values of a church hierarchy who needs to control your relationship with God to validate their existence.

Curtis
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: paintedshoes on February 14, 2006, 08:17:28 AM
Cara,
I hope you've had a good night's sleep and been able to digest a little of what was offered to you last night.  Catch up with exlogcabin's post, too.  Whatever decision you make (and remember, You DON'T have to make any now), we are here for you if you want us.  In the meantime, enjoy your virginity while you can.  It doesn't seem to last long around here. :D

BillKCMO, thank you for the kind words.  I have learned so much from the family here.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cyoung on February 14, 2006, 10:08:31 AM
Cara,
I hope you've had a good night's sleep and been able to digest a little of what was offered to you last night.  Catch up with exlogcabin's post, too.  Whatever decision you make (and remember, You DON'T have to make any now), we are here for you if you want us.  In the meantime, enjoy your virginity while you can.  It doesn't seem to last long around here. :D

BillKCMO, thank you for the kind words.  I have learned so much from the family here.

Thanks SO much to everyone for your great posts and your support. I love you guys.  :)

I did send a brief reply to my sister-in-law that maybe we could have a long conversation one day. I also asked her if she had gay friends with whom she'd ever discussed the issues. Her reply: "I do have gay friends, who I probably would NEVER bring this up with, unless they came to me and said something like 'I'm so confused.....' "

Oh Lordie.  >:(

Cara
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: paintedshoes on February 14, 2006, 10:20:52 AM
Cara's not a virgin!  Cara's not a virgin!  Welcome back, sis.   :D
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Lola on February 14, 2006, 10:27:02 AM
Cara is she married to your brother? Or is she your husbands sister?  If you don't mind me asking!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: waynerman on February 14, 2006, 10:33:54 AM
I also asked her if she had gay friends with whom she'd ever discussed the issues. Her reply: "I do have gay friends, who I probably would NEVER bring this up with, unless they came to me and said something like 'I'm so confused.....' "

You know, I never noticed this until BBM came along, but there are so many homophobes out there who claim that they have gay friends...it makes me wonder. When I attended the BBM discussion at our local Presbyterian church, one woman brought her husband with her...she had seen the film but couldn't convince her husband to see it because he was so uncomfortable with the "gay" part. And yet, he claimed to have gay friends. Likewise, the Bible-thumper who attended the meeting solely to point out that all gays were going to hell, also said that he has gay friends!

With "friends" like these, we don't need enemies! :o
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Lola on February 14, 2006, 10:34:02 AM
LOL Oh no I was talking about her SIL, the one who sent her the e-mail, sorry!   ;)
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: lektronnorth on February 14, 2006, 10:37:18 AM
[Likewise, the Bible-thumper who attended the meeting solely to point out that all gays were going to hell, also said that he has gay friends!

With "friends" like these, we don't need enemies! :o

Right, at least it'll be warm.  >:( If I'm going anyway, I'd better start sinning in thought word AND deed.  Now, anyone got Adorable Jake's private phone number? ;D
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cyoung on February 14, 2006, 10:37:31 AM
Cara is she married to your brother? Or is she your husbands sister?  If you don't mind me asking!
No, Lola, Cara and I are not related, except by kinship with this place, all of the wonderful people here.  I have a tendency to get a little gushy sometimes.  Can't help it.  Love you all and this forum so much.

At the moment, I feel more related to you all than I do to my sister-in-law!

She's my husband's sister, but I've known her a little longer than I've known my husband. We went to the same high school and were in two of the same classes in our junior year. I could tell you that basically she's a good-hearted person, but at this point you all might not believe it.  :(

Cara
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Lola on February 14, 2006, 10:40:38 AM
Does your husband know how she feels, don't mind me being so nosey (again) ?

And you know what I do believe she may be a good hearted person, she is just very misguided, it is kind of sad when you think about it.

Oh well maybe you will start to rub off on her!   ;)

Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cyoung on February 14, 2006, 10:43:09 AM
Does your husband know how she feels, don't mind me being so nosey (again) ?

And you know what I do believe she may be a good hearted person, she is just very misguided, it is kind of sad when you think about it.

Oh well maybe you will start to rub off on her!   ;)

Yeah, my husband knows and was just rolling his eyes. It doesn't surprise him too much; he says she's always been "impressionable." He couldn't believe she actually thought that a gay person could become "ex-gay."

Cara
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: paintedshoes on February 14, 2006, 10:44:14 AM
Cara is she married to your brother? Or is she your husbands sister?  If you don't mind me asking!
No, Lola, Cara and I are not related, except by kinship with this place, all of the wonderful people here.  I have a tendency to get a little gushy sometimes.  Can't help it.  Love you all and this forum so much.

At the moment, I feel more related to you all than I do to my sister-in-law!

She's my husband's sister, but I've known her a little longer than I've known my husband. We went to the same high school and were in two of the same classes in our junior year. I could tell you that basically she's a good-hearted person, but at this point you all might not believe it.  :(

Cara
Cara, honey, that means the world to me.
The funny thing is that Lola didn't mean the question for me, but for you.. I felt like such an idiot that I deleted my original response and pm'ed her about it.  But, in the meantime, you picked it up.

You know what, Cara, I DO believe you that you SIL is basically a good-hearted person, because, otherwise, you wouldn't give a damn about what she thought.  That may be the hardest thing for you, am I right?  That you wish this one part of her brain and heart could be adjusted.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Lola on February 14, 2006, 11:41:19 AM
Hmmm that really is interesting isn't it?

Sounds like maybe something did happen and she now feels guilty about it and is trying to "repent"  :-\

Like you said her parents should have been more worried about the born agains getting her. And if her husband is a homophob that can't help matters.  And a sexist and controlling and bi-polar to boot..........sigh  I almost feel sorry for her : (

Do they have kids (me Miss nosey) ??
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: graylockV on February 14, 2006, 11:47:10 AM
They're having a really tough time right now in their marriage because he has bipolar disorder and won't stay on medication.

So maybe she's so insistent about "ex-gays" or "controlling homosexual urges" because she herself has been there? I don't know. It's all speculation.

Cara


The speculation is often borne out in fact.  Her comments re: BBM and gay people could be her way of trying to distance herself from a deep reality within herself.  As you say, it's all speculation.

As to her husband's being bipolar and his refusal to take his meds - that's very very dangerous.   Perhaps she knows what a dangerous game he is playing and it's causing her to feel such anxiety that she transfers her fears to other matters, by expressing such hostile comments about other matters, e.g., BBM and gays, etc.  Sorry if I sound like a dime-store psychologist - but her husband needs a major reality check about his condition - forget about the homophobia.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Lola on February 14, 2006, 11:48:40 AM
WOW I really do feel sorry for her.

 :'(
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: graylockV on February 14, 2006, 11:59:53 AM
They're having a really tough time right now in their marriage because he has bipolar disorder and won't stay on medication.

So maybe she's so insistent about "ex-gays" or "controlling homosexual urges" because she herself has been there? I don't know. It's all speculation.

Cara


The speculation is often borne out in fact.  Her comments re: BBM and gay people could be her way of trying to distance herself from a deep reality within herself.  As you say, it's all speculation.

As to her husband's being bipolar and his refusal to take his meds - that's very very dangerous.   Perhaps she knows what a dangerous game he is playing and it's causing her to feel such anxiety that she transfers her fears to other matters, by expressing such hostile comments about other matters, e.g., BBM and gays, etc.  Sorry if I sound like a dime-store psychologist - but her husband needs a major reality check about his condition - forget about the homophobia.

BTW - true Christians, as i recall, are not supposed to be self-destructive.  They are supposed to treasure the life God has given them.  Not taking your meds is not exactly the Christian thing to do!!!

Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Timothy on February 14, 2006, 05:35:06 PM
Cara, I'm so happy to know you (albeit by a website), you have a good heart.

And I feel badly for you and having to deal with this.  And I completely agree with what was said earlier about you not having to shoulder some burden of enlightening your sister in law.  You have already gone the second mile and there certainly aren't any expectations that you let this infringe on your life.  We'll all love you anyway.

After hearing about the problems the SIL is having in her own life, it makes some sense that she would be a bit hostile to gay people.  To her way of thinking, she's been cheated.  She played by the rules and now look, she has a difficult life.  Meanwhile some gay person is happy without having to follow all the rules she adopted... IT JUST ISN'T FAIR.  God let her down.

The problem with some conservative sects of Christianity is that they believe that if you follow all the rules, you can demand that God provide you with health, wealth and happiness.  And when your religion is based on rules rather than on a relationship with God it can be very confusing when He isn't doing what you think he should.

We can't really expect her to be rational about it.  If her own life were working well she probably wouldn't care as much or be as spiteful.  It's harder to be hateful when you're basically happy.

Of course I support your decisions - whatever you choose - but maybe it's time to let it go and let her believe what she wants.  Maybe it's just time to show her love.  That might be a greater testament to true Christian principles (or the principles at the heart of most faiths) than trying to dissuade her.

Maybe if she felt love she might be able to show it better.  And if not, you will feel more at peace in a difficult situation.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Groch on February 14, 2006, 06:26:09 PM

I just wanted to say I'm sorry. I worried about posting the e-mail because I was afraid it would be hurtful to many people here.  :(


Cara,

I worried about the same thing when I saw your original post. It sure gets ones dander up.

I am absolutely blown away by the thoughtfulness and understanding I see in the responses.    It would be easy for us to hate your SIL, to return in kind what we feel in her letter.

But that would not be fair, she is probably, like us, a fine compassionate person dealing with life the best she can.

There is a lot of talk these days about family values, and your SIL's letter indicates that family is very important to her.

I just wish that empathy, compassion, and a willingness to try to walk a few steps in the other persons shoes was still considered a family value.

You have it in spades, and I hope that some day she will understand the pain and real damage that views like hers cause to hundreds of thousands of less traditional families every day.

Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: paintedshoes on February 14, 2006, 06:38:46 PM
Timothy, I very much appreciate your views on Cara's situation with her SIL.  Thank you for sharing them.

Groch, for someone relatively new to these boards, you are right on the money.  Glad to have your thoughts here.

Cara, you doin' ok, honey?  It's nice to see your smiling face again.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cyoung on February 14, 2006, 06:45:32 PM
Timothy,

Thanks so much for your kindness and understanding and for saying I have a good heart. (I thought to myself, I'll remember this when I lose patience with one of my kids and yell and then feel guilty, LOL).

I do hope to discuss this with my sister-in-law one day, and she responded that she was open to that.

Cara

Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cyoung on February 14, 2006, 06:51:25 PM
Timothy, I very much appreciate your views on Cara's situation with her SIL.  Thank you for sharing them.

Groch, for someone relatively new to these boards, you are right on the money.  Glad to have your thoughts here.

Cara, you doin' ok, honey?  It's nice to see your smiling face again.

I just want to say that I VERY much appreciate everyone's in-depth responses. You've all helped me a great deal, and I will be very well prepared when my sister-in-law and I do talk. Talk about good hearts!

I wanted to respond to everyone who replied, but I'm trying to meet an editing deadline. I keep finding excuses to take a break and check the forum! Anyone know how to do this in moderation? Moderation isn't one of my strong points.  :(

Cara
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: paintedshoes on February 14, 2006, 07:38:55 PM
Gerard is back, too.  Yea!!!  All is better in my world, Cara.  Thank you, sis.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cyoung on February 14, 2006, 07:43:15 PM
Gerard is back, too.  Yea!!!  All is better in my world, Cara.  Thank you, sis.

I wonder if it's sacrilege to have a sig file with Gerry Butler instead of Heath or Jake? Hmmm....   :D

Cara (I'm such a fan girl!)
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: killersmom on February 14, 2006, 08:05:56 PM
Gerard is back, too.  Yea!!!  All is better in my world, Cara.  Thank you, sis.

I wonder if it's sacrilege to have a sig file with Gerry Butler instead of Heath or Jake? Hmmm....   :D

Cara (I'm such a fan girl!)

Nope, Cara, it works for me ::) I just went wuff when I got here :o

Also when I figure out moderation, I'll make sure to let you know ;D :o

km
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cyoung on February 14, 2006, 08:18:34 PM
Nope, Cara, it works for me ::) I just went wuff when I got here :o

Also when I figure out moderation, I'll make sure to let you know ;D :o

km

 :D ;D 8) ::) :P

Cara
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: BillKCMO on February 14, 2006, 09:07:35 PM
Her comment about "finding God" as an alternative to accepting one's homosexuality tells me that she is, sadly, capable of being very mean.  While she probably thinks that comment is righteous and wonderful, on my end of a real life non-role-play, *it brings tears to my eyes*.  It's non-understanding, non-empathic, and cruel.

I just wanted to say I'm sorry. I worried about posting the e-mail because I was afraid it would be hurtful to many people here.  :(

Quote
Has your sister-in-law ever been in therapy?

She and her husband are in counseling together, but I don't think she's been in individual therapy. I don't know for sure.

When -- or if -- she and I ever have that long talk, I will definitely ask her to imagine being a gay person. I will also ask her how she would respond if one of her own children was gay.

Cara



You surely have nothing to feel bad about -- you are simply the messenger, and I think SIL's email was well worth sharing.  Tells us what you are up against!!  And, the unfortunate truth is it's not the first time I've heard that kind of mean, unempathic, ill-informed stuff about gay people (e.g., James Dobson, Pat Buchanan, Trent Lott, Anita Bryant, Jerry Falwell...).  It was a good illustration of the attitudes that have made life hard for gay people...a real-life example of the forces that led to the suffering of Ennis and Jack.

About therapy for SIL:  I suspect as a previous poster "psychologized" that her keen lack of empathy about the gay thing may be an attempt to channel other fears onto a "them"....and to feel empathy for others would remind her of her own pain, which might be unbearable.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: jpq716 on February 14, 2006, 09:28:36 PM
Cara, I have been following the dialogue on your sister-in-law’s problem with Brokeback Mountain and I am starting to get a number of highly disturbing impressions about her. You are quite worried about her, but I am starting to get a little worried about you. There seems to be much more going on within your relationship with this woman than just her glib and scatter-brained homophobia. I do not think that you are going to like what I am going to say, but here goes, anyway…

A number of people on this thread feel that your sister-in-law is a conflicted person who is trying to reconstellate her life at the present time and who might benefit from an intensive period of psychotherapy. I am not so optimistic. Your husband, who has known her a hell of a lot longer and, apparently, a hell of a lot better than you have, has already tipped you off that his sister has always been “impressionable.” What I think he’s telling you, very carefully, is that, with her, there may be “no there there.” In spite of her surface affability (which I am quite sure she has), there may not be a rock-solid personality (a soul, if you will): there may be --- there may never be anything more than --- a ramshackle heap of prejudices and behaviors that periodically collapses and then is reconstellated into --- another ramshackle heap of prejudices and behaviors.

A number of the remarks that you make about your sister-in-law truly reinforce my opinion on this matter. You met this woman long ago at a time when you yourself were “unformed,” and I know from my own personal experience how hard it is to erase, or even to alter, adolescent impressions. You and she go back a long way, and even though you have grown enormously as a human being since, the highly understandable root affection that you have for this woman --- an affection buttressed by the unerasable biographical fact that you met your husband through her --- blinds you to the fact that she has not grown at all. You mention that she had some sort of a nervous breakdown after her freshman year in college, that she returned to school a Christian fundamentalist, and that you cannot understand what happened to her. What may have happened to her, Cara, is that she realized at the age of nineteen or so --- in a way that you did not have to realize --- that she was being overwhelmed by the complexities of life. It’s not merely that she was doubtlessly experiencing some unpleasant things at that time: it may well have been the sheer chaotic quantity of the life experiences themselves, above and beyond their pleasantness or unpleasantness, that overwhelmed her. From such a perspective, her retreat into Christian fundamentalism was neither a mistake nor a failure of nerve: it was the only thing that she could do in order to protect herself from being destroyed by the complexity of modern life!

And her retreat into Christian fundamentalism --- into a ramshackle heap of prejudices and behaviors --- has worked for her, at least until recently. You say that your sister-in-law’s husband “has his good qualities,” but your sister-in-law probably married him for his no-nonsense cut-n-dry approach to life, where the whites are super-white, the blacks are super-black, and there are no agonizing grays. And she has gotten a great deal out that relationship for the past twenty years, not least her four children. But she did not realize when she married the man that his so-called “good qualities” were premised upon a potentially explosive bipolar personality. And now that the couple is entering middle-age, the dark side of that bipolar personality is really starting to take control (as, sadly, it so often does in a certain kind of middle-aged man). The marriage is very deeply in trouble; your sister-in-law knows it; she has already gone to a lawyer to discuss the legal possibilities for a separation; the husband has gone to marriage counseling only as a result of this; and your sister-in-law does not truly believe that he is able to stay on his medications, despite his promises to do so. The prospects for the marriage, I am sorry to say, Cara, are not good. And maybe you --- and your more insightful and thus more guarded --- husband know it.

At some point in the future, your sister-in-law is probably going to “crash” again, and she is going to have to find yet another ramshackle heap of prejudices and behaviors to get her through the next couple decades of her life. Now maybe psychotherapy may can help her find another refuge from the chaotic complexity of life, but I am doubtful. Psychotherapy can only work in crisis situations when the “there there” in the person is really to move on to another level of life experience. But at the risk of incurring your anger, Cara, perhaps psychotherapy cannot really work with your sister-in-law because she is incapable of moving on to another level of life experience --- and that because there is no “there there.”  You may want to regard your sister-in-law as a conflicted soul in torment, but perhaps she is actually nothing more than periodically dysfunctional mass-minded person.

Unconsciously, you may already know much of this and, hoping for the best, you are trying to help provide her with a new psycho-social structure into which she can move forward with her life. But her reactions to Brokeback Mountain are clearly signaling you --- at least I think that they are clearly signaling you --- that, as “impressionable” as she is, she is not going to jump your way. It’s just too much for you to ask now --- or even twenty years ago --- from her, and she seems to telling you through her reactions to the movie to stop asking. The psychological problems that your sister-in-law may be having at the present time may be far less dangerous than the political problems that you are opening up for yourself by trying to press her in the way that you do. After all, as you yourself admit, moderation is not one of your strong points. And danger lies there for you in that lack of moderation…

You really need to talk with your husband more about this situation, and I would not be surprised if he advises you to be a little more careful around your sister-in-law. Because I sense that a nasty crash is coming in your sister-in-law’s life, a crash that you did not cause, that you probably cannot help, but that might damage you in the process. You have worked too hard and too long to get the psycho-socio-political consciousness that you have, Cara, to let anyone upend it. As your sister-in-law’s problems might, if you are not careful. Sometimes, as Shakespeare tells us, discretion is the better part of valor, and sometimes it is better to fold one’s hand rather than to throw good money after bad into the kitty. So be careful, Cara, be careful!

Speaking more generally, do you people see why it is so hard for movies like Brokeback Mountain to get made? Most art in our society exists to put us to sleep, and most of the films that we see are nothing more than a primitive version of “the feelies” against which Aldous Huxley warned us in Brave New World. But when something like Brokeback Mountain comes along, the grave cultural and political danger that real art always poses to a society suddenly reveals itself way out in the open. Plato did not expel the poets from his utopia merely because he had a tin ear, you know: he realized, just as many fundamentalist Christians today realize, that art can be dangerous. Have you noticed just how silent the fundis actually have been over Brokeback Mountain? Yes, yes, there have been complaints and even sporadic demonstrations, but no mass opposition. As yet. Why? Because the supreme artistry of Brokeback Mountain has flown under their radar scopes and temporarily stunned them with its emotional truth. But you just wait… Ten years from now the fundi reaction to Brokeback Mountain will be white-hot, and very, very sophisticated. Cara’s troubled relationship with her sister-in-law in 2006 is but a faint reminder of the chaotic social and political trouble to come for all of us in this community – and for many who do not know the first thing about it yet..
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cyoung on February 14, 2006, 10:11:27 PM
Thanks for your feedback, jpq. I'm not too clear on what you think the danger is for me. If you're concerned my sister-in-law will somehow persuade me to her way of thinking, let me assure you that it ain't gonna happen.  :) I read too much and think too deeply.

As far as considering that there may be "no there there" to her personality, that's harsher than I'm willing to go. People are complex creatures, and I don't give up on someone that easily.

More later, when I have time to reply in depth.

Cara
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: graylockV on February 14, 2006, 10:32:57 PM
Thanks for your feedback, jpq. I'm not too clear on what you think the danger is for me. If you're concerned my sister-in-law will somehow persuade me to her way of thinking, let me assure you that it ain't gonna happen.  :) I read too much and think too deeply.

As far as considering that there may be "no there there" to her personality, that's harsher than I'm willing to go. People are complex creatures, and I don't give up on someone that easily.

More later, when I have time to reply in depth.

Cara

Hi Cara.  It is clear to me that you are a kind and compassionate person.  I wonder if the arguments over BBM really serve much purpose with regard to your SIL's situation at this time.   May I suggest that you just be the kind and caring person that you are when you deal with her.  I know you won't let her get to you.  Given her personal turmoil, I am sure if there was no BBM there would be some other issue that would flush out all her antagonistic statements.  After all, the fundamentalists are not just at war with gay people - they are at war with the contemporary world.

So I repeat - just be the person you are with her - that's all you can do.  If she is unable to respond in a positive manner to your kindness and compassion then there is nothing else you can do for her.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Uclapeterg on February 14, 2006, 10:47:01 PM
I wonder if it's sacrilege to have a sig file with Gerry Butler instead of Heath or Jake? Hmmm....   :D
Cara (I'm such a fan girl!)

You traitor!  ;)
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cyoung on February 15, 2006, 10:15:35 AM
Hi Cara.  It is clear to me that you are a kind and compassionate person.  I wonder if the arguments over BBM really serve much purpose with regard to your SIL's situation at this time.   May I suggest that you just be the kind and caring person that you are when you deal with her.  I know you won't let her get to you.  Given her personal turmoil, I am sure if there was no BBM there would be some other issue that would flush out all her antagonistic statements.  After all, the fundamentalists are not just at war with gay people - they are at war with the contemporary world.

So I repeat - just be the person you are with her - that's all you can do.  If she is unable to respond in a positive manner to your kindness and compassion then there is nothing else you can do for her.

For now I'm letting it go. It's not a good time for her, and I don't have the emotional energy.

I'm still scratching my head about one thing, though: Why did she want to see the movie in the first place? It's a puzzle.

Cara
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cyoung on February 15, 2006, 10:19:57 AM
I wonder if it's sacrilege to have a sig file with Gerry Butler instead of Heath or Jake? Hmmm....   :D
Cara (I'm such a fan girl!)

You traitor!  ;)

No, I'm intensely loyal -- last year, my main obsession was Gerard Butler and Phantom of the Opera.  :) So, this is how I assuage my guilt for spending more time here nowadays than I do at the GB site.  :D

Besides, the signature reminds me that God exists and loves us! LOL!

Cara
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: paintedshoes on February 15, 2006, 11:31:14 AM
I wonder if it's sacrilege to have a sig file with Gerry Butler instead of Heath or Jake? Hmmm....   :D
Cara (I'm such a fan girl!)

You traitor!  ;)

No, I'm intensely loyal -- last year, my main obsession was Gerard Butler and Phantom of the Opera.  :) So, this is how I assuage my guilt for spending more time here nowadays than I do at the GB site.  :D

Besides, the signature reminds me that God exists and loves us! LOL!

Cara
Cara, you are toooo much!  LMAO
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: TexRob on February 15, 2006, 06:32:25 PM
Hi jpq --

You've made some extraordinary observations here, combined with a cogent analysis of what may be happening.  I especially like your observation that, for some people, there is no real "there there,"  no center. 

I don't know if this really does fit the sister-in-law, but surely it fits a lot of people who are unable to get anything meaningful out of Brokeback Mountain.  As you say, such people are so in search of the black-and-white in this contingent universe that any hint of gray is deeply threatening.  Such concrete thinkers (as opposed to abstract thinkers) sometimes lack the literacy or education to appreciate the nuance of such a film, but just as often they are rather terrified that there is nuance in the first place -- to any moral issue.   

I find it helpful to think of this film as a masterpiece of existentialism in art.  Looking at it this way implies that our concrete thinkers out there are practicing a form of self deception, which means that, on some level, they have to know precisely what it is they deny seeing.  The existential theme also implies that you're right about the minds that hate: they have been stunned, and they will try a subtle reframing of the issue.  The problem, for them, is that this movie's strength is simply that it exists in the first place.  In existential terms, that's all it has to do to defeat the hatefulness aimed at it; it's role is that of the Witness, making any future effort to debase it fatally flawed from the outset.  I don't think the enemies here can use subtlety to their advantage.  As art, the film has robbed them of that option.   
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: MellorSJ on February 15, 2006, 08:20:28 PM
[snip] for some people, there is no real "there there,"  no center. 

I don't know if this really does fit the sister-in-law, but surely it fits a lot of people who are unable to get anything meaningful out of Brokeback Mountain. 
I think that a non sequitur.  As a counter-example, I offer people who see the movie in two possible states.  One is the long-arc/high-action folk, who expect a story to come in long (medium, really) segments, with lots of stuff (preferably involving hot chicks or exploding people); and the other is people with expectations conditioned by straight romance.  These latter cannot imagine love between two men (no matter how explained, swelling strings, running through the meadow and all) and those who cannot perceive the signals (Jack studiously peeling potatoes, clenched jaw muscles and all, or that far-away stare when Randall comes on to him) even when it's staring them in the face. They simply have no place to put the information.

I'm not being critical of these people.  (Exasperated, I'll admit to).  I'm just saying these two kinds of people have no "tree" on which to hang their new experience.  As a sometime educator of new technology, I know the biggest issue is UNTEACHING people's expectations of what constitutes the subject matter--in this case, love between two masculine men.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: sunspot on February 15, 2006, 08:38:57 PM

I'm not being critical of these people.  (Exasperated, I'll admit to).  I'm just saying these two kinds of people have no "tree" on which to hang their new experience.  As a sometime educator of new technology, I know the biggest issue is UNTEACHING people's expectations of what constitutes the subject matter--in this case, love between two masculine men.


I just had the same experience today, with my best friend from high school, who finally got around to seeing the movie over the weekend.  She liked it, but she couldn't see where that first night in the tent had come from, the connection between Ennis and Jack or why Jack took that risk.  She'd caught the glances between Ennis and Jack outside Aguirre's trailer (tho not the ones inside!) and Ennis' "I haven't yet had the opportunity" line, but had missed a lot of the other clues (like Ennis watching Jack ride off on his jumpy mare).

I had to explain to her that that's it.  When you're in the closet, you have to be attuned to every little gesture and motion if you're ever gonna find another man.  And you're gonna have to take some risks, which Ennis would never have done if Jack hadn't come along. 

And taking those risks may have finally got Jack killed, if he misread some signal.
 
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: TexRob on February 15, 2006, 09:23:35 PM

...I think that a non sequitur.  As a counter-example, I offer people who see the movie in two possible states.  One is the long-arc/high-action folk, who expect a story to come in long (medium, really) segments, with lots of stuff (preferably involving hot chicks or exploding people); and the other is people with expectations conditioned by straight romance.  These latter cannot imagine love between two men (no matter how explained, swelling strings, running through the meadow and all) and those who cannot perceive the signals (Jack studiously peeling potatoes, clenched jaw muscles and all, or that far-away stare when Randall comes on to him) even when it's staring them in the face. They simply have no place to put the information.

I'm not being critical of these people.  (Exasperated, I'll admit to).  I'm just saying these two kinds of people have no "tree" on which to hang their new experience.  As a sometime educator of new technology, I know the biggest issue is UNTEACHING people's expectations of what constitutes the subject matter--in this case, love between two masculine men.

Hi Mellor --

You have an interesting angle here, but I'm not sure my response was precisely a non-sequitur.

Your take on this concerns what happens when people are exposed to new information -- in this case, a new way to synthesize the experience of the film, or a new generality to extrapolate from the specifics  of the film.  If this is construed in educational terms, the problem, according to pragmatic theory, would entail not so much "unlearning" their expectations, but layering this new expectation upon their existing knowledge base, allowing it to gradually, passively supplant the old knowledge or expectations.  I don't know how current this theory of education is anymore.  It may have been supplanted with a more persuasive way to "unlearn" a student, or a moviegoer, or a cultural consumer.

The type of person you're describing, however, may not be the kind of person Cara's sister-in-law is.  This is why jpq716's analysis of the situation struck me as being so cogent.

We all know some people will be unreachable, no matter what.  The question is whether that properly describes the sister-in-law, or whether she can be "unlearned" over time and really is reachable.  You and I might have opposite opinions of which one she is, but my point is that we're dealing with two separate categories of thinkers, not one.  Of the people who start out being turned off by the film, some will change their minds over time.  With others, on the other hand, it becomes clear, to summarize jpq716, that they have a deep psychological stake in not changing their minds, no matter the state of the evidence.  It just seemed to me that the sister-in-law fell into that category.

Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: jpq716 on February 15, 2006, 09:27:52 PM
TexRob, I do not usually stick my nose gratuitously into other people’s business. But I got alarmed by a number of the details that were coming out in the course of the conversation, and I did what is for me the unusual thing of sketching out a possibly dangerous scenario that could be highly dangerous to Cara in the long run. I said my piece, stressing the provisional --- and possibly erroneous --- nature of the scenario, and now that I have said my piece, I shut my mouth and let it go.

But there is something about my observations in that post that the observations in your post has caused me to want to mention to you in a more abstract, general context. There has occasionally --- not often, but occasionally --- come to me in the course of my life the sudden realization that I was dealing with a person who appeared to have a integrated self (a soul, if you will) but who actually was nothing more than a highly ramshackle, badly fitted and potentially unstable construct of prejudices, stock phrases and stereotyped behaviors. Of course, that person has a soul: all human beings have souls, and as such, they can never be means, only ends. But in these people of whom I am now speaking the soul is so rudimentary, so submerged, so undetectable that you really cannot speak of them as functioning in everyday life as a unitary soul. Now I do not know whether Cara’s sister-in-law is one of those people, TexRob, but I do know that such people exist, and I suspect that they are playing a disproportionate role in the current controversy surrounding Brokeback Mountain.

There is a lot of soul-searching going on here on this forum about the stresses in various personal relationships that have erupted as a result of Brokeback Mountain. If I don’t agree with somebody else about the merits --- or even the facts --- of the film, then whose fault is it? Mine? His or hers? A combination of the two? In what percentage? And how can it be reconciled on a higher level? Can it be reconciled on a higher level? And so forth, and so forth…

I would suggest that, when dealing with these people whom I have described above, the suffering that these questions inevitably bring to the sensitive soul is totally unnecessary. There can come --- and sometimes, does come --- a point in a relationship when the difficulties cease to be personal and psychological in nature and begin to be systemic and political/cultural. And when that happens to a relationship in which you find yourself, especially if that relationship is an old one, the atmosphere of the relationship suddenly becomes surreal. The two of you suddenly begin to appear to each other like total strangers who have accidentally been locked together in a room for the time being and who are forced to exchange meaningless pleasantries to pass the time until help can arrive with a key to let you out. Or, to use another analogy, when you are together, it’s like watching each other through regular glasses, only to suddenly have to see him or her suddenly with 3D glasses and to know that that’s how you are going to have to be seeing him or her from now on, if you want to see him or her at all. I repeat, the personal and psychological suffering is totally unnecessary in such cases, but I have to concede that another kind of suffering, less intense but also longer lasting, takes its place. It’s the suffering of losing yet another rock-solid foundation on which you thought that you would could base your everyday life. And, believe me, that hurts a hell of a lot in a dull, throbbing way.

Do you see how dangerous movies like Brokeback Mountain are? We spend most of our lives operating with other people on a mask-to-mask basis, and that’s a good thing in general because, as T. S. Eliot knew, “humankind cannot stand too much reality.” But we begin to suffocate behind the masks, and every now and then, we need a soul-piercing work of art to crack the masks and to let our faces breathe. But oh, when we are without masks (for however brief a period of time that may be), we are so vulnerable to others --- and so dangerous to them as well. All sorts of things, not all of them good, come out into the open, as many of the discussions on this forum indicate quite clearly. And some of these things can never go back behind the renovated masks when we raise them at long last to our faces, with sadness but also with relief. And for the people who need the mask in order to have a face --- the soulless ones about whom I have spoken above --- this added facial baggage could be just the thing that tips them over the edge once and for all. That’s a scary thing to consider, almost as scary as to watch.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: bluemoon on February 15, 2006, 09:30:22 PM

I'm still scratching my head about one thing, though: Why did she want to see the movie in the first place? It's a puzzle.

Cara
I think that I am one of the few here that actually do not think that you sister in law is a mean-spirited or hurtful person.  I just read her letter again to see whether I missed something others have read.  To me, she is just mis-informed and clearly lacks the knowledge about gays.  She may not be the most compassionate person, but she seems have the desire (perhaps because of you and other personal reasons other posters have pointed out) to know more about gays. That is why she went to see BBM with you.  I see her questions (in her email) as a cry for help.  I think that by engaging in discussion in a civil manner (with so many valid points that have been provided by many posters here), she may finally see the light.  But that is only when you are emotionally ready to do so.  You got to love yourself first before you can love someone else.  Take care of yourself.  When you find the energy, you can help your sister-in-law.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cyoung on February 15, 2006, 09:34:06 PM
TexRob, I do not usually stick my nose gratuitously into other people’s business. But I got alarmed by a number of the details that were coming out in the course of the conversation, and I did what is for me the unusual thing of sketching out a possibly dangerous scenario that could be highly dangerous to Cara in the long run. I said my piece, stressing the provisional --- and possibly erroneous --- nature of the scenario, and now that I have said my piece, I shut my mouth and let it go.

Before you let it go, could you explain further the dangerous scenario you fear? I'm still a little perplexed, even though I've read your post several times very slowly and carefully.

Quote
The two of you suddenly begin to appear to each other like total strangers who have accidentally been locked together in a room for the time being and who are forced to exchange meaningless pleasantries to pass the time until help can arrive with a key to let you out.

Wow. Well said.

Cara
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: jpq716 on February 15, 2006, 09:41:08 PM
Cara, I am so sorry now that I ever said a word. But in response to your request, I must tell you that I think that you may find yourself caught in the middle of a collapsing marriage and a pretty wild time for both of the people involved after it goes to wrack-n-ruin. And I repeat, you really need to talk with your husband about this, since I get the impression that he may be more aware of the dangers here with his sister and her husband than you are.

I've answered your question, Cara, and I hope that we can let the matter drop, right here...
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cyoung on February 15, 2006, 09:46:38 PM
I think that I am one of the few here that actually do not think that you sister in law is a mean-spirited or hurtful person.

See, that's the thing -- she's not. If she were, I wouldn't even bother. It's the fact that she isn't a mean-spirited person but has expressed these views that makes me not want to give up.

Quote
You got to love yourself first before you can love someone else.  Take care of yourself.  When you find the energy, you can help your sister-in-law.

After giving it more thought, I've decided to very slowly work on answering that e-mail -- write a little, save it, put it aside, write a little more when I have the energy, save it, etc., until I have something I'm ready to send. I might post it here before sending it.

Something else is bothering me. I keep re-reading the e-mail and comparing it to her usual writing style. The more I re-read it, the more I suspect that she didn't write it, or didn't write it entirely -- I think her husband did. It's more his writing style than hers. And I know his writing style because he and I have had many discussions via e-mail. Some of the things that "she" addresses weren't topics I ever brought up. They're things I've heard him rant about on occasion. But when I replied to her that maybe we could have a long talk one day, she didn't fess up, "I didn't write that, B. did, and I allowed him to put my name to it." I wish I could somehow ask her without offending her, but she's already sensitive to people thinking she "doesn't have a mind of her own." It wouldn't surprise me at all if he intercepted the e-mail and bullied her into letting him write a reply.  :(

Cara
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cyoung on February 15, 2006, 09:50:10 PM
Cara, I am so sorry now that I ever said a word. But in response to your request, I must tell you that I think that you may find yourself caught in the middle of a collapsing marriage and a pretty wild time for both of the people involved after it goes to wrack-n-ruin.

Heh. My husband and I were both already somewhat caught in the middle, even before this whole mess about the movie. When she asked him for a separation, he called us and then drove up here, trying to get us on his "side." A few weeks later, she visited and we heard her side. Then my husband and I looked at each other and said: "Whoa. We've got to draw a line here and not get pulled into this." But it's his sister, and he's going to support her and whatever decision she makes.

Quote
I've answered your question, Cara, and I hope that we can let the matter drop, right here...

No worries.   :)

Cara
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: jpq716 on February 15, 2006, 10:01:56 PM
Cara, I rest my case. Your husband seems to be a pretty smart cookie. Good luck in staying clear of what could be a nasty crack-up!  :)
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cyoung on February 15, 2006, 10:19:02 PM
Cara, I rest my case. Your husband seems to be a pretty smart cookie. Good luck in staying clear of what could be a nasty crack-up!  :)

<ahem> My husband shouldn't get all the credit, LOL.  :)

Cara
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: BluCM40 on February 15, 2006, 10:33:24 PM
Here is a link to local (Los Angeles) ABC entertainment guru George Pennacchio


I had emailed ABC here in Los Angeles about the "BBM Shirts" childrens charity auction on Ebay, Go to "Video on Demand"
on this page, Title is "Brokeback Mountain Impacts Pop Culture", shirts are now upto over $33,000


Also, the Diana Ossana interview and Willie Nelsons "new" gay cowboy song released today interview


http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/index?section=entertainment&id=3319508
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: BluCM40 on February 15, 2006, 10:49:08 PM
Correction: Shirts are now up over $41,000!


http://cgi.ebay.com/JACKS-SHIRTS-FROM-BROKEBACK-MOUNTAIN-JAKE-GYLLENHAAL_W0QQitemZ7589737258QQcategoryZ60345QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: jack on February 15, 2006, 11:31:38 PM
She's my husband's sister, but I've known her a little longer than I've known my husband. We went to the same high school and were in two of the same classes in our junior year. I could tell you that basically she's a good-hearted person, but at this point you all might not believe it.  :(
Cara

i am sure that the same kind of basically good hearted people sadly gathered to watch the witches burn at the stake.

jack
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: jack on February 15, 2006, 11:50:53 PM
and the shirts have now cracked $50K
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: PhoebeC on February 15, 2006, 11:57:18 PM
Hi Cara (and everyone),

I've been following your story about your sister-in-law.  I'm so sorry you have to deal with this.  I know I've been thinking about what I would do in your situation, and how you might answer her objections in a way that would seem remotely convincing to her.  The hardest thing about the conversation is that it's so easy just to talk past one another; it's like you're just speaking different languages.  That's the problem with her falling back on the (il)logic of religious faith, moral righteousness, and "personal" beliefs--it creates this false sense that her beliefs are outside of the sphere of public debate, outside of the realm of law and reason, and thus that nothing you say could engage her on her ground.  I know that the religious right has developed and distributed all kinds of anti-gay-marriage "talking points"--your sister-in-law seems to have digested some version of them, probably second-hand.  I don't think there is any easy answer for how to handle this--you have to protect your own psyche here, and it may be just endlessly maddening and counterproductive to keep trying to argue this out.  You have already done so much just by going with her to the movie and trying to engage her in this conversation.

I have been looking for resources online that could help in case you do decide go further with the discussion--and also to help me think through these questions, since it's probably inevitable that most of us will be faced with similar kinds of bigotry or closed-mindedness at some point.  I haven't found a website that gives the perfect answers, but there are some helpful resources out there, and I wanted to pass on what I have found in case it proves helpful to you or anyone else here.  I hope it doesn't seem like I'm just throwing a bunch of websites at the problem, but if nothing else, it could give us something to do other than turn red and scream.

http://www.tolerance.org/speakup/index.html
This is a web project from the Southern Poverty Law Center called "Speak Up" about responding to everyday bigotry in various settings.  It gives anecdotes and general strategies.  There is a PDF document that you can download.  The tolerance.org website is cool in general.

http://www.bluegrassfairness.org/pages/talkingpointsintro.asp
http://www.bluegrassfairness.org/pages/TP-religion.asp
These are two websites from the "Bluegrass Fairness" organization that give talking points on responding to questions about GLBT issues.  The first link is to a general list of talking points, and the second is to the specific "talking points on religion and homosexuality" section.

http://www.philosophy-religion.org/handouts/homophobic.htm
This is a famous op/ed piece called "Homophobic? Re-Read Your Bible" by Peter Gomes, a Baptist minister, professor at Harvard, and gay man.  It was published in the NY Times in 1992.

http://www.whosoever.org/faq.html
http://www.whosoever.org/exgay/
http://www.whosoever.org/revresp/
An online magazine for GLBT Christians called "Whosoever" that has a bunch of resources.  Don't know anything about this magazine, so I can't really vouch for it, but it looks like it could help respond to the evangelical Christian perspective.  The links here are to FAQs (answers the old "Adam and Steve" thing, among others), a page on so-called ex-gay organizations, and one that has ministers' responses to hate mail (including my favorite, "You make me want to puke!"). There are a ton of other resources on the main page.

http://www.indegayforum.org/authors/carpenter/carpenter46.html
This is an article by a law professor that tries to answer the "slippery slope" argument that your sister-in-law used: "if we allow two men to marry, why not three women?"  It's a kind of complicated logic, so you might not exactly want to quote it to her, but it helped me to think through how you might begin to sort out that question.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: MellorSJ on February 16, 2006, 08:12:01 AM
Hi Mellor --

You have an interesting angle here, but I'm not sure my response was precisely a non-sequitur.

Your take on this concerns what happens when people are exposed to new information ...


Hey.  I think maybe it was *me* that had the non-sequitur.  My point was that some people (not necc. Cara's SIL), don't get it for a bunch of reasons I articulated.  I agree with your points about unlearning etc.

We're basically in the same place, just passing each other by ever so slightly...

I remain convinced that the best way to approach Car's SIL is slowly, without confrontation, and preferably by making her identify with J&E (as her children?), not have some abstract "position" on the subject.

You all are great, you know?
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: lektronnorth on February 16, 2006, 08:49:04 AM
She's my husband's sister, but I've known her a little longer than I've known my husband. We went to the same high school and were in two of the same classes in our junior year. I could tell you that basically she's a good-hearted person, but at this point you all might not believe it.  :(
Cara

i am sure that the same kind of basically good hearted people sadly gathered to watch the witches burn at the stake.

jack

Why do you think we're called faggots?
Well said Jack.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: CellarDweller115 on February 16, 2006, 09:00:05 AM
Well, here is a reaction I saw at my last trip to see Brokeback.

I was in the theater, and happened to turn around, and saw an older woman sitting with a friend.  She was looking at the screen with a scowl on her face.  I could just tell that she was seeing the movie, and preparing to hate it.  She had the "I was told to see this, so here I am, and I KNOW I won't like it." look on her face.

After the movie, I turned around to get my jacket off the back of the chair, and I caught a glimpse of the scowling woman.

She had tissues in her hands, and she was sobbing into them.  I'm not talking a few tears, she was sobbing.  I chuckled to myself, thinking....ha ha...they got to you.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: TexRob on February 16, 2006, 09:24:53 AM
...
There has occasionally [...] come to me in the course of my life the sudden realization that I was dealing with a person who appeared to have a integrated self (a soul, if you will) but who actually was nothing more than a highly ramshackle, badly fitted and potentially unstable construct of prejudices, stock phrases and stereotyped behaviors.
...
There is a lot of soul-searching going on here on this forum about the stresses in various personal relationships that have erupted as a result of Brokeback Mountain. ... There can come [...] a point in a relationship when the difficulties cease to be personal and psychological in nature and begin to be systemic and political/cultural.
....
Do you see how dangerous movies like Brokeback Mountain are? [...] we need a soul-piercing work of art to crack the masks and to let our faces breathe. But oh, when we are without masks  [...] All sorts of things, not all of them good, come out into the open, as many of the discussions on this forum indicate [...]And for the people who need the mask in order to have a face --- the soulless ones about whom I have spoken above --- this added facial baggage could be just the thing that tips them over the edge once and for all. That’s a scary thing to consider, almost as scary as to watch.


Hi jpq716 --

What we're witnessing with this film is the power of truly great art to throw a social fault line into sharp relief, and that line runs through families and personal relationships alike.  Brokeback Mountain is surely dangerous in that regard.

You have a good psychological and sociological grounding upon which to evaluate this phenomenon.  For me, the angle of approach is more philosophical and ethical.  Together, we've been struck by the nature of a particular group of people, a nature filtered out through the prism of a film, no less.

This small group of people will sit there, watch the film, then seize venomously upon some secondary or incidental aspect of the plot.  The most common such reaction seems to be those who just can't get past the marital infidelity they claim the film lionizes. What's startling is they actually saw the film. This is not the same as the reactions of 18-year-old straight males who merely thought the film "corny" out of their own callow stage of adolescence.  This involves people much older who presumably have attained some experience of the complexities of life.

Here's my take on these "ramshackle, badly fitted and potentially unstable" personalities.  What they're missing is an internalized philosophy of life.  As kids, we take our values uncritically from the world around us.  As adults, we ideally develop our own value systems and world outlooks through introspection, a process that can take a lifetime but which nevertheless represents an advanced state of personality development.

Many, however, can never trade the certainties of childhood for the ambiguities of adulthood.  This is neither good nor bad in itself, but rather the result of fright.  Where it gets bad, though, is that these people reach a point where the other people in their lives become a substitute for reality as such.  They turn their minds over to society or family to program, in order to avoid the frightening task of doing it themselves.  As a result, they cannot evaluate a moral question and can only parrot what they hear in their group. Thus, every opinion they profess must conform to the group consensus, no matter how cruel or unjustified that consensus is.  Such people lose their souls in this manner.  They experience life as puppet on strings, move by forces they cannot identify.  They are mentally capable of complying with any order, no matter how evil,  and thus are a danger to themselves and other people.

Now of course, when such a person's family, group or society changes, they change in lockstep with it.  That's the 20-year cycle you were describing earlier.  Such a person, too, is capable of deflecting any contradictory information as well, and in fact expends enormous effort doing so.  This is the phenomenon that Brokeback Mountain is exposing.  Such is the level of denial in these people that they could look at the Taj Mahal and say it's ugly just as well. 

The clincher is that at some point, these people are brought face to face with the humanity of others.  In order to maintain their masks, they have to ultimately deny the humanity of other people.  Therein lies the moral component of the problem.  As I've said, existentialism is perhaps the most useful way to evaluate the art of the movie, and hence the moral message as well. For accordingly, in order to deny something, one has to be aware, on some level of consciousness, of exactly what it is they're denying.  They are thereby responsible moral agents and deserve condemnation when they sit there and deny someone else's (Ennis's) humanity.

Again, this is not the same person as a teenager too young to have thought moral issues out yet or a person too uneducated to draw an abstraction from a concrete example.    These are people who should know better.   Brokeback Mountain is allowing us to see these people by the light of day, for what the are.  In my own family, there is at least one person just like this, and it's damn uncomfortable to know it.  But it's better to see someone's true colors now than to be counting on them to be there for you on the basis of blind trust.

You're right: such people are a slapdash mess of opinions piled into a hopeless junkheap, capable of saying, thinking and doing anything under the right circumstances.  Part of the exquisite torture of Brokeback Mountain is the realization that dawns on those of us who love its compassion that we live in a world, perhaps in a family, that, when push comes to shove, will turn a blind eye to another's humanity for the sake of an ideology.   For many of us, Brokeback Mountain is indeed a dangerous work of art.


Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: TexRob on February 16, 2006, 10:13:31 AM
[...]
We're basically in the same place, just passing each other by ever so slightly...

I remain convinced that the best way to approach Car's SIL is slowly, without confrontation, and preferably by making her identify with J&E (as her children?), not have some abstract "position" on the subject.

You all are great, you know?

Hi Mellor --

You may be right about the SIL.  There has been some mention of the possibility that it was actually the brother-in-law who's writing style is reflected in the response.  What an intriguing possibility! 

Let me look at your point a little further.    If it's true that the sister-in-law is reachable, then what needs to be avoided is direct confrontation.  I think you may agree on this point.

I say so because I've worked as a sales writer.  I'm familiar with logical argumentation as well, but when trying to persuade another person, laying out the facts for that person seldom works -- though you would think it would.  What that means is that the only possibilty of reaching the sister-in-law is not by a rational argument but by an emotional appeal of some sort.

Every person has psychological defenses set up around themselves.  The trick is to slip the message under their emotional radar.  As an example, the SIL may be on the defensive because she knows her position is somehow vulnerable.  Her defensiveness has to be disarmed first.  Cara could say things like, "Of course you reacted that way.  Who wouldn't?  In your position I would have, too!"  The idea here is to validate the SIL's previous worldview before proceeding with the new message, in order to lower her defenses (after all, her very ego is at stake).  This may open the SIL just enough to make another purely emotional appeal, to the common humanity of all people.  This process would require time -- a lot of time.

Unfortuantely, there remains the  possibility that jpq716's observation is correct.  In that case, a completely different evaluation of the SIL will be necessary.   Since we don't know the situation personally, it ultimately rests on Cara's shoulders to determine which it is.  As I said in the last post to jpq716, at least one person in my own family fits his description.  Cara is not alone on this message board, and a lot of us Brokeback Mountain fanantics are seeing not just the good the movie can bring out, but some unexpected ugliness as well.   

Such ugliness feels like a hard slap in the face to those of us who know what a masterpiece this movie is.  But perhaps we can learn something about human nature from such reactions, so all is not lost.  One of the messages of the movie is the irreducible uniqueness of every human being. But that message implies another: the difficulty any human being has getting a fix on any other.  The negative reactions some people show to this movie drive home that point.  To love this work of art, then, each of us has to love it by ourselves, independently of what even our closest friends think of it.

Perhaps the movie's true home is in our hearts, not on our sleeves.




Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: Uclapeterg on February 16, 2006, 10:17:30 AM
I chuckled to myself, thinking....ha ha...they got to you.

Brokeback got her good!  :D
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: lektronnorth on February 16, 2006, 10:21:31 AM
I chuckled to myself, thinking....ha ha...they got to you.

Brokeback got her good!  :D

We'll have to send her that "Gay agenda" diary book we were talking about a few days ago   ::)   
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cyoung on February 16, 2006, 10:26:01 AM
She's my husband's sister, but I've known her a little longer than I've known my husband. We went to the same high school and were in two of the same classes in our junior year. I could tell you that basically she's a good-hearted person, but at this point you all might not believe it.  :(
Cara

i am sure that the same kind of basically good hearted people sadly gathered to watch the witches burn at the stake.

jack

Here's a tangent for you: Some friends sent me an e-mail "game" in which you're asked to describe the person who sent it to you in one word, then send it back to him/her and forward the post on to all your friends, so they can describe you in one word. (Clear as mud?  :D ) My sister-in-law replied with "smart" for her one word to describe me. I had used the word "strong" for her. I replied that the game was fun and told her the other words I'd received so far (an odd collection: "eccentric," "tenacious," "glowing," "delicious," and "smart").

She responded with the replies she had received so far from her friends & family members:

"Patient, kind, and strong."

Cara
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cyoung on February 16, 2006, 10:28:30 AM
I chuckled to myself, thinking....ha ha...they got to you.

Brokeback got her good!  :D

This was the reaction I was hoping my sis-in-law would have had. Maybe it was wrong of me to have expectations of people, though, and then be disappointed when they didn't meet them. (That's one of the lessons I'm learning in this.)

Cara
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: mcnell1120 on February 16, 2006, 10:39:21 AM
Well, here is a reaction I saw at my last trip to see Brokeback.

I was in the theater, and happened to turn around, and saw an older woman sitting with a friend. She was looking at the screen with a scowl on her face. I could just tell that she was seeing the movie, and preparing to hate it. She had the "I was told to see this, so here I am, and I KNOW I won't like it." look on her face.

After the movie, I turned around to get my jacket off the back of the chair, and I caught a glimpse of the scowling woman.

She had tissues in her hands, and she was sobbing into them. I'm not talking a few tears, she was sobbing. I chuckled to myself, thinking....ha ha...they got to you.

Love it !!!
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: CellarDweller115 on February 16, 2006, 11:19:02 AM
Well, here is a reaction I saw at my last trip to see Brokeback.

I was in the theater, and happened to turn around, and saw an older woman sitting with a friend. She was looking at the screen with a scowl on her face. I could just tell that she was seeing the movie, and preparing to hate it. She had the "I was told to see this, so here I am, and I KNOW I won't like it." look on her face.

After the movie, I turned around to get my jacket off the back of the chair, and I caught a glimpse of the scowling woman.

She had tissues in her hands, and she was sobbing into them. I'm not talking a few tears, she was sobbing. I chuckled to myself, thinking....ha ha...they got to you.

Love it !!!

I did  too! :D
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: jpq716 on February 16, 2006, 11:19:34 AM
Yes, but how much can we trust this woman to stay "open"? Who is to say that, within a week or two, she does not turn back to her earlier prejudices and swear that she was momentarily confused by the subtle artfulness of "the Gay Agenda"? She could become all the more homophobic, in the long run, for her breakthrough experience in the threater.

I am not not saying that this scenario is either a certainty or even a probability. But it is a possibility. Yes, art overwhelms, but the power of a work of art is hard to maintain amid the forces of everyday life. :(
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: desperadum on February 16, 2006, 11:25:06 AM
Well, you just never know how people will react. One of my closest friends going back to early childhood is a woman my age whom I know very well. She is divorced, dating a nice guy, successful in her work, a liberal Democrat who is about as gay friendly as anyone could possibly be. I knew she and her boyfriend were trying to see the movie back in January, but it was sold out, and she hadn't mentioned it since. Finally in an e-mail I asked if she had seen it, and here was my response:

"Yes, I saw Brokeback and, although I tried and tried, I just didn't like it.  I finally decided that they tried to do too much:  if it had been a tragic love story, it would have been great; if it had been a social commentary, it would have been great.  Instead is was diluted.  I also
didn't like the characters - they seemed caricatures.  Oh well."

Huh? I was disappointed, of course, but it just goes to show how everyone comes from a different place and has a different point of view. Just today I got an e-mail from another old friend who had seen it three times and says "I can't get enough", so there you go.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: andy/Claude on February 16, 2006, 12:14:06 PM
QUOTE; Annie Proulx...Planet jackson Hole.

How different readers take the story is a reflection of their own personal values, attitudes, hang-ups. It is my feeling that a story is not finished until it is read, and that the reader finishes it through his or her experience, prejudices, world view and thoughts.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cyoung on February 16, 2006, 12:31:07 PM
Hi Cara (and everyone),

I've been following your story about your sister-in-law.  I'm so sorry you have to deal with this.  I know I've been thinking about what I would do I have been looking for resources online that could help in case you do decide go further with the discussion--and also to help me think through these questions, since it's probably inevitable that most of us will be faced with similar kinds of bigotry or closed-mindedness at some point. 

Thanks so much for the links with the great info -- very helpful!

Cara
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: jpq716 on February 16, 2006, 01:13:48 PM
Andy has quite a point there. We like to think that appreciating a work of art is a purely passive experience. There we all are, just sitting quietly in the theater, calm, expectant, open-minded. This is the so-called "myth of immaculate perception." Immaculate perception does not exist; each and every single one of us brings a whole bagful of agendas to the theater seat when we go to a movie; and sometimes the accounts of what actually happened in the movie (quite apart from the meaning of the events) are really shockingly disparate.

That's why I am pessimistic about that lady's long-term open-mindedness. She did not get that initial scrowl on her face overnight, and I am afraid that not even an overwhelming powerful experience like watching Brokeback Mountain can overcome the effect of years and years of stereotyped thoughts, words and emotions. Nevertheless, every single person who begins to question his or her ideas about sexual identity is yet another victory in the global struggle for universal human rights. And perhaps we should be content with those gains, however modest they may be...
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: MellorSJ on February 16, 2006, 02:55:08 PM
Quote from: TexRob link=topic=152.msg48098#msg48098 date=1140110011
You may be right about the SIL.  There has been some mention of the possibility that it was actually the brother-in-law who's writing style is reflected in the response.  What an intriguing possibility! 

Let me look at your point a little further.    If it's true that the sister-in-law is reachable, then what needs to be avoided is direct confrontation.  I think you may agree on this point.

I say so because I've worked as a sales writer.  I'm familiar with logical argumentation as well, but when trying to persuade another person, laying out the facts for that person seldom works -- though you would think it would.  What that means is that the only possibilty of reaching the sister-in-law is not by a rational argument but by an emotional appeal of some sort.

Every person has psychological defenses set up around themselves.  The trick is to slip the message under their emotional radar.  As an example, the SIL may be on the defensive because she knows her position is somehow vulnerable.  Her defensiveness has to be disarmed first.  Cara could say things like, "Of course you reacted that way.  Who wouldn't?  In your position I would have, too!"  The idea here is to validate the SIL's previous worldview before proceeding with the new message, in order to lower her defenses (after all, her very ego is at stake).  This may open the SIL just enough to make another purely emotional appeal, to the common humanity of all people.  This process would require time -- a lot of time.

Unfortuantely, there remains the  possibility that jpq716's observation is correct.  In that case, a completely different evaluation of the SIL will be necessary.   Since we don't know the situation personally, it ultimately rests on Cara's shoulders to determine which it is.  As I said in the last post to jpq716, at least one person in my own family fits his description.  Cara is not alone on this message board, and a lot of us Brokeback Mountain fanantics are seeing not just the good the movie can bring out, but some unexpected ugliness as well.   

Such ugliness feels like a hard slap in the face to those of us who know what a masterpiece this movie is.  But perhaps we can learn something about human nature from such reactions, so all is not lost.  One of the messages of the movie is the irreducible uniqueness of every human being. But that message implies another: the difficulty any human being has getting a fix on any other.  The negative reactions some people show to this movie drive home that point.  To love this work of art, then, each of us has to love it by ourselves, independently of what even our closest friends think of it.

Perhaps the movie's true home is in our hearts, not on our sleeves.


I agree with all of this.  (Sorry to be no fun :) )

Another way of looking at this is to ask Cara what she wants out of it.  From all I read, it's not simply a matter of "winning" or having an argument.  Rather, Cara cares about her SIL and feels (as I read it) let down.  So what would make that feeling go away?  Agreement.  But that won't happen directly or soon.

That's why I'm for the "plant seeds" approach, with an attempt to make the connection to her own life.  How would the SIL feel if one of her children were gay?  (a) marry and suppress?  (b) marry and cheat? (c) be celibate? (d ) be gay?  Which does she think would make her child happier.  Certainly BBM shows what happens if you go for (b)!

BBM also have lots of reviews that start "I didn't like it when I left the theater, but over the next two days I found myself sobbing/thinking about it etc etc"  Maybe there's a way to trigger some of that in the SIL.

Most of all, for my own entirely selfish reasons, I'd love to know if these emails are being ghost written!  And to what purpose...

Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cyoung on February 16, 2006, 05:53:02 PM
BBM also have lots of reviews that start "I didn't like it when I left the theater, but over the next two days I found myself sobbing/thinking about it etc etc"  Maybe there's a way to trigger some of that in the SIL.

The interesting thing is that when she was visiting and I mentioned the movie -- that I really loved it and wouldn't mind seeing it again -- she piped right up and said a friend of hers had just seen it and that it had "sat on her shoulder for days." Then my sis-i-l surprpised me by saying, "I want to see it." After we saw the movie, she said she thought it was "good" but that she didn't find the love "believable." The movie hadn't moved her much. A couple days later, after she returned home, I asked via e-mail if she was having a delayed reaction and how she felt about the movie now. That's what started the subsequent exchange of e-mails on the topic. It's as though the reverse happened: Instead of becoming more moved by it, she seemed to set her heart against it and decided that it was all "gay propaganda" about the "gay agenda."

Quote
Most of all, for my own entirely selfish reasons, I'd love to know if these emails are being ghost written!  And to what purpose...

You and me both.  :) I think it was just the one e-mail that might have been "ghost [husband] written," and I could be wrong. I don't think I am, but I could be. In any case, if he did write it, she approved it and let him send it. So. I suspect he asked about her reaction to the movie and told her how she should be thinking about it. *sigh*

Cara
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: trinket on February 17, 2006, 09:32:47 AM
Quote from: TexRob link=topic=152.msg48098#msg48098 date=1140110011
The negative reactions some people show to this movie drive home that point.  To love this work of art, then, each of us has to love it by ourselves, independently of what even our closest friends think of it.

Perhaps the movie's true home is in our hearts, not on our sleeves.


That's why I'm for the "plant seeds" approach, with an attempt to make the connection to her own life.  How would the SIL feel if one of her children were gay?  (a) marry and suppress?  (b) marry and cheat? (c) be celibate? (d ) be gay?  Which does she think would make her child happier.  Certainly BBM shows what happens if you go for (b)!

BBM also have lots of reviews that start "I didn't like it when I left the theater, but over the next two days I found myself sobbing/thinking about it etc etc"  Maybe there's a way to trigger some of that in the SIL.


Hello all,
It's been quite awhile since I have been here and I have enjoyed trying to catch up.
I have posted before about "who" I am and my reason for having gone to see Brokeback the first time.
Taking the chance that I am boring some of you with a repeat, let me say this.
I am 49, straight, married 26 years, 7 kids, Republican (sorry Jake), vote mostly Conservative/Christian.
I thought I KNEW how I was going to feel about BBM when I saw it BUT I wanted to be able to SAY I saw it before I critisized (blasted?) it.
I felt it would have been unfair, shallow and small of me to do that and then say, 'uh, no" when I was asked if I saw it.
I came out of my first viewing sort of like, 'uh, ok, well...um...don't know.'  I thought the acting was just fabulous and the cinamatography was outstanding.  Though it was long I was never bored.  AND I had re-discovered Jake Gyllenhaal since last seeing him in The Day After Tomorrow.
Well, I was not prepared for the whollop I had the next day!
I WILL shorten this by saying I have seen it 4 more times since (and that won't be it!) and have tried to tell everyone I know (and yes, most of our friends are of the same religious/political mindset) that they need to have the Brokeback experience for THEMSELVES.
I'm ok if they don't have the same explosive reaction that I did (well, I try, but I now have all of YOU!)....but ONLY if they SAW the movie.
I have gone to some Conservative forums and "talked" about the movie and tried to encourage people to see it for themselves.
So much judging!
I simply leave those forums by saying..'there is one God, it's not you, it's not me and He will judge us all' and 'to judge something you know nothing about is shallow and wrong.'
Brokeback has shown me many things, about myself.
I look forward to my next trip to THE MOUNTAIN!
Peace,
Di
aka/Trinket
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: WLAGuy on February 17, 2006, 09:39:57 AM
Okay, Cara, who's the new guy in the pic in your signature block?  (pant pant)
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cyoung on February 17, 2006, 09:40:24 AM
I have gone to some Conservative forums and "talked" about the movie and tried to encourage people to see it for themselves.
So much judging!
I simply leave those forums by saying..'there is one God, it's not you, it's not me and He will judge us all' and 'to judge something you know nothing about is shallow and wrong.'
Brokeback has shown me many things, about myself.
I look forward to my next trip to THE MOUNTAIN!
Peace,
Di
aka/Trinket

Hi Di,

If you were in my shoes, how would you approach my sister-in-law about her reaction and her e-mail that we've been discussing? You and she are coming from similar backgrounds, yet your response was more like mine. It's intriguing.

Thanks,
Cara
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: andy/Claude on February 17, 2006, 10:20:16 AM
Hello Di,
I don't think any of us could ask for more of anyone than what you described in your journey of discovery with this movie. After the initial subject matter there appears before us a host of other things for us to consider and I keep asking myself where are protestations against movies containing adultery, fornication, rape, murder, etc, etc? My heart aches over the levels of hypocrisy, prejudice and pure hate in this world but if any movie can change that however small, then Brokeback Mountain is the one.
My very best to you.
Andy.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cyoung on February 17, 2006, 10:22:42 AM
Okay, Cara, who's the new guy in the pic in your signature block?  (pant pant)

Just more photos of my obsession, Gerard Butler, whom I've already raved about endlessly.  :) Getting to you, is he? Heh heh.

Cara
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: andy/Claude on February 17, 2006, 10:31:17 AM
Ok Cara, so who is this guy and what's he done?
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: WLAGuy on February 17, 2006, 10:48:44 AM
Okay, Cara, who's the new guy in the pic in your signature block?  (pant pant)

Just more photos of my obsession, Gerard Butler, whom I've already raved about endlessly.  :) Getting to you, is he? Heh heh.

Cara

Um, er, you could say that.    :P :-[ ::)  What movie is the red cape pic from?
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cyoung on February 17, 2006, 10:51:25 AM
Ok Cara, so who is this guy and what's he done?

I love being asked this question!

Gerard Butler -- or "Gerry," as he's more familiarly known -- is a brilliant, under-rated and still relatively unknown Scottish actor who has been in a slew of movies, most recently as the Phantom in "Phantom of the Opera," in the Scottish indie film "Dear Frankie," and in a movie about the St. Louis soccer team who beat the British, "The Game of Their Lives." He has recently starred in another movie, "Beowulf & Grendel," in which he plays Beowulf, but a distributor for the movie has not yet been found. He just finished filming a movie based on Frank Miller's graphic novel, "300," and in March he will begin filming "Butterfly on a Wheel" with Pierce Brosnan.

Other movies he's been in include "Timeline," "Reign of Fire," "Dracula 2000," "Mrs. Brown," and "Lara Croft Tomb Raider: The Cradle of Life." Even when the movies themselves weren't that good, he was often the best thing in it, outshining his co-stars. After filming Tomb Raider, in which he starred as Lara Croft's (Angelina Jolie) boyfriend, he apparently picked up quite a large gay following.

He has a huge and devoted fan club, especially at this site: www.gerardbutler.net. He makes himself very accessible to his fans, and they love him for it.

You can also find more info about him at http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0124930/

This has been a public service announcement. We now return you to your regularly scheduled Brokeback obsessing.  

Cara

Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cyoung on February 17, 2006, 10:56:00 AM
Okay, Cara, who's the new guy in the pic in your signature block?  (pant pant)

Just more photos of my obsession, Gerard Butler, whom I've already raved about endlessly.  :) Getting to you, is he? Heh heh.

Cara

Um, er, you could say that.    :P :-[ ::)  What movie is the red cape pic from?

The movie he just finished filming, "300," about the battle of Thermopylae between the Persians and the Spartans. It's based on a graphic novel by Frank Miller (of "Sin City" fame). He plays King Leonidas.

Cara
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: andy/Claude on February 17, 2006, 10:59:11 AM
Thanx for the info' Cara. I better investigate!
Boy is he in shape for '300'.
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cyoung on February 17, 2006, 11:04:48 AM
Thanx for the info' Cara. I better investigate!
Boy is he in shape for '300'.

Start with either "Dear Frankie" or, if you like musicals, "Phantom of the Opera." He will blow you away!

Yeah, he went through a really grueling workout for "300." The transformation was nothing short of amazing. Several months earlier, he'd been photographed by paparazzi at a swimming pool during an Italian film festival, and he was all belly and man boobies. Then, next thing we know, a few months later he was absolutely ripped!

There's actually a new video clip that talks about how the men got in shape for their roles as Spartan and Persian warriors. Gerry Butler introduces the clip. Check it out:

http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/300.html

Cara
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: andy/Claude on February 17, 2006, 11:41:31 AM
As a matter of interest, I just mentioned my imminent departure for the movies to see BBM this evening on the local room (isle of wight) on gaydar and guess what? barely a note of interest. :'(
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: killersmom on February 17, 2006, 11:44:03 AM
Cara, thanks for the link to the clip.
wuff... ::)
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: jayare69 on February 17, 2006, 12:06:54 PM
$20,000.00 for the two shirts!! 8)
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cyoung on February 17, 2006, 01:31:40 PM
One more tiny plug for Gerry Butler:

Here are two clips from Phantom of the Opera, with Gerry as the Phantom singing "Music of the Night" and "Point of No Return." In the theatre, on the big screen with the surround sound, these scenes were mesmerizing. And yes, he does his own singing.  :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7YcDXqsReA&search=Phantom%20of%20the%20Opera

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKdjYRw6BcE&search=Phantom%20of%20the%20Opera

Trailer for "Dear Frankie":

http://www.themoviebox.net/movies/2005/DEFGH/Dear-Frankie/trailer.php

Cara
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: mary on February 17, 2006, 01:33:30 PM
One more tiny plug for Gerry Butler:
Cara

Gald to see his picture back too - is that him in the kilt too?  That's quite a ah, pose in that picture with the sword  ;)
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cyoung on February 17, 2006, 01:34:32 PM
One more tiny plug for Gerry Butler:
Cara

Gald to see his picture back too - is that him in the kilt too?  That's quite a ah, pose in that picture with the sword  ;)

Yep, that's Gerry in the kilt at last year's Dressed to Kilt charity event in NYC. Just a bit suggestive, eh?  ;)

Cara
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: killersmom on February 17, 2006, 01:46:17 PM
Everyone, I am sure this has been posted on other threads here, but it was just brought forward by Chris on a thread that he started over in meet and greet.
Thanks Chris.

It is a commentary by Diana Ossana in The Advocate magazine. It is worth the time to read.
Hope you enjoy.

http://www.advocate.com/exclusive_detail_ektid24445.asp
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: WLAGuy on February 17, 2006, 03:45:52 PM
One more tiny plug for Gerry Butler:
Cara

Gald to see his picture back too - is that him in the kilt too?  That's quite a ah, pose in that picture with the sword  ;)

Yep, that's Gerry in the kilt at last year's Dressed to Kilt charity event in NYC. Just a bit suggestive, eh?  ;)

Cara

Okay, before I spend even more time away from the books looking for the "300" pics online, where did you find them?
Title: Re: Audience, Friends and Family Reactions to the Movie
Post by: cyoung on February 17, 2006, 05:13:14 PM