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OUR COMMUNITY => Hot Topics => Topic started by: BrokenOkie on September 26, 2008, 02:50:41 PM

Title: News & Current Events
Post by: BrokenOkie on September 26, 2008, 02:50:41 PM
A new thread for breaking news and current events.

Dave will launch discussion soon.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Dave Cullen on October 01, 2008, 11:37:57 AM
Yow. This is about as bad as it gets:

Quote
Sarajevo Queer Festival Attacked
Today at 2:44 PM


At least 10 people were injured -- six of whom required hospitalization -- when dozens of hooded, bearded men shouting "Kill the gays" and "Allahu akbar" ("God is great") attacked the opening of the first Sarajevo Queer Festival in Bosnia and Herzegovina on Sept. 24.

http://www.connexion.org/newsstory.cfm?id=13719&returnurl=index.cfm
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on October 02, 2008, 08:54:32 AM
Lewis invites Industry to fight Prop 8

Activist pledges to match $500,000 donation


By TED JOHNSON

Jonathan Lewis, entrepreneur and political activist and scion of the Cleveland-based Progressive Insurance fortune, said on Tuesday that he is pledging to chip in $500,000 to defeat Proposition 8 if the entertainment industry does the same.

*************************

Lewis said in a statement, "With Election Day six weeks away, we are concerned that the entertainment industry hasn't stepped up to the plate to fight this unnecessary initiative. We are pleased to see the leadership of Brad Pitt and Kate Capshaw and Steven Spielberg. Now it's time for the entertainment industry as a whole to take the lead. My family and I are issuing a $500,000 challenge to the entertainment industry.

*************************

Lewis said the match also applies to contributions to fight Florida's Proposition 2, an initiative similar to California's Proposition 8.

*************************

the unedited article with more info is here

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117993142.html?categoryId=18&cs=1
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on October 02, 2008, 08:57:41 AM
Yow. This is about as bad as it gets:

Quote
Sarajevo Queer Festival Attacked
Today at 2:44 PM


At least 10 people were injured -- six of whom required hospitalization -- when dozens of hooded, bearded men shouting "Kill the gays" and "Allahu akbar" ("God is great") attacked the opening of the first Sarajevo Queer Festival in Bosnia and Herzegovina on Sept. 24.

http://www.connexion.org/newsstory.cfm?id=13719&returnurl=index.cfm


Its just sad to see this kind of hatred.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on October 02, 2008, 08:59:45 AM
Rosie gets her own varity show.


http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117993209.html?categoryid=14&cs=1
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on October 02, 2008, 11:51:14 AM
i TRULY don't know where this belongs, but i hope someone shout it from the rooftops.

sorry canada, it would appear the USA hasn't got a monopoly on dangerous nut jobs...


Quote
Kill gays, candidate says

By ANGELA SCAPPATURA, Sun Media

Police are investigating whether an independent federal candidate committed a hate crime by telling high school students homosexuals should be executed.

David Popescu was invited to participate in a federal candidates' discussion at Sudbury Secondary School on Tuesday. He made the comment after a student asked his opinion of gay marriage.
MUCH MORE here...

http://www.torontosun.com/canadavotes/news/2008/10/01/6941241.html

and i think SOMEONE needs to have a word with this school's staff that chose to let this man continue.  exposing them to this, and allowing it to continue,  amounts to child abuse.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: doodler on October 02, 2008, 05:15:11 PM
Rosie gets her own varity show.


http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117993209.html?categoryid=14&cs=1

Somebody please define "skein" for me as appears in the above article:

" Earlier this year Fox cut a deal with Ozzy and Sharon Osbourne, who are prepping a six-episode skein for later this season.

...............................

O’Donnell called the chance to host a primetime variety skein "a dream come true — old-time variety, live from New York, with a nod to Ed Sullivan, Carol Burnett and memories of Sonny and Cher." "


According to on line dictionaries, "skein" has to do with yarn and wild fowl.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on October 02, 2008, 05:22:51 PM
the entertainment industry has its own distinct and secret language. Variety magazine’s slanguage is infamous, in which “mitting” is applause, a “skein” is a TV series, an “oater” is a western, and, most confusing of all for a veteran Internet developer like me, the major TV networks are called “webs.”

http://www.variety.com/index.asp?layout=slanguage_result&slang=skein (http://www.variety.com/index.asp?layout=slanguage_result&slang=skein)

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: doodler on October 02, 2008, 11:05:05 PM
Wow, thanks. The only one I knew was "oater."
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: quithammerin on October 03, 2008, 09:21:37 PM
Jack, about the crazy guy speaking at the Sudbury high school, I just want to point out that he's described as a "perennial candidate" and the incident is under police investigation.  As far as the kids who were there goes, I can only hope that it leads to discussion and learning, rather than their absorbling this guy's  rantings.  I just googled him, and in 2003 he was found guilty of assaulting his mother, and under conditions of his probation was not allowed to be alone with her.

I worry, sometimes, about giving these guys publicity, which they seem to crave. But perhaps it's important to make sure they don't go unchecked. 

As for shouting from the rooftoops, one of the students has started, and has posted this on YouTube:  http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=8sxiNVo34cI

If you listen to the whole thing, she's got an interesting take on life.....there's more of a discussion in the comments.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on October 08, 2008, 12:15:38 AM
If you check the Gay Marriage thread you will see that polls now indicate that the proposition to pass a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage is now ahead in California.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on October 08, 2008, 07:01:47 AM
a bootcamp that cures homosexuality.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/07/inside-a-boot-camp-that-c_n_132527.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on October 22, 2008, 10:19:27 AM
Can I just tell you how proud I am to be from S.F.?

Protester in SF attempts to handcuff Karl Rove
Wed Oct 22, 12:11 am ET

SAN FRANCISCO – An anti-war protester confronted former Bush administration aide Karl Rove while he spoke at a San Francisco mortgage bankers' meeting.

A statement by the group Code Pink identified the woman as 58-year-old Janine Boneparth, who tried to handcuff Rove in what she called a citizen's arrest for "treason."

continues:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/rove_accosted;_ylt=AtmPP1EzcCAgyopwqZvsw4kDW7oF
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on November 10, 2008, 06:24:05 PM
 :o :o :o

Okay...this is why Sen. Obama can't get into office soon enough...I'd say it was unbelievable if it weren't all to believable...for those of you of a certain age does this remind anyone of Nixon and Cambodia?

Secret attacks on al-Qaeda reported
U.S. special-operations forces have raided various countries nearly a dozen times since '04.
By The New York Times

WASHINGTON — The U.S. military since 2004 has used broad secret authority to carry out nearly a dozen previously undisclosed attacks against al-Qaeda and other militants in Syria, Pakistan and elsewhere, according to senior U.S. officials.

These military raids, typically carried out by special-operations forces, were authorized by a classified order that Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld signed in the spring of 2004 at the direction of President Bush, the officials said. The secret order gave the military new authority to attack al-Qaeda anywhere in the world, and a more sweeping mandate to conduct operations in countries not at war with the United States.

In 2006, for example, a Navy Seal team raided a suspected militants compound in the Bajaur region of Pakistan, according to a former top official of the Central Intelligence Agency. Officials watched the entire mission — captured by the video camera of a remotely piloted Predator aircraft — in real time in the CIA's Counterterrorist Center at the agency's headquarters in Virginia 7,000 miles away.

Some of the military missions have been conducted in close coordination with the CIA, according to senior U.S. officials, who said that in others, like the special-operations raid in Syria on Oct. 26 of this year, the military commandos acted in support of CIA-directed operations, senior U.S. officials said.

continues:

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_10943490?source=rss
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on November 10, 2008, 07:16:57 PM
:o :o :o

Okay...this is why Sen. Obama can't get into office soon enough...I'd say it was unbelievable if it weren't all to believable...for those of you of a certain age does this remind anyone of Nixon and Cambodia?

Yes it does remind me of Cambodia, but it doesn't surprise me.

I've never had any doubt that these types of operations were happening, and in fact I'd be shocked if they were not happeing.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on November 11, 2008, 06:58:01 AM
Some good news I hope. A cure for AIDS. Sounds promising.

The breakthrough appears to be that Dr. Hütter, a soft-spoken hematologist who isn't an AIDS specialist, deliberately replaced the patient's bone marrow cells with those from a donor who has a naturally occurring genetic mutation that renders his cells immune to almost all strains of HIV, the virus that causes AIDS.


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122602394113507555.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: KittyHawk on December 01, 2008, 01:22:44 PM

From the Chicago SunTimes:

Obama and Bush Observe World AIDS Day  (http://http//www.suntimes.com/news/nation/1307760,world-aids-day-bush-120108.article)

What would you recommend that Obama do?
He says he's going to continue the initiative that Bush started in Africa,
but don't you think he needs to do more here in the US, especially in the cities?

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on December 01, 2008, 01:38:37 PM

From the Chicago SunTimes:

Obama and Bush Observe World AIDS Day  (http://http//www.suntimes.com/news/nation/1307760,world-aids-day-bush-120108.article)

What would you recommend that Obama do?
He says he's going to continue the initiative that Bush started in Africa,
but don't you think he needs to do more here in the US, especially in the cities?




I agree with you.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: CellarDweller115 on December 11, 2008, 06:48:55 PM
Skull of a Young Child Found Near Home of Caylee Anthony's Grandparents

By LEE FERRAN
Dec. 11, 2008



Orange County police today declared the Orlando home of Casey Anthony an "active crime scene" after the skull of a young child was discovered this morning in a wooded area close by. Police speculate that the remains could be those of missing toddler Caylee Anthony, Casey Anthony's daughter.

Sheriff's deputies say the skeletal remains of a small child have been found less than half-mile from the Orlando home of a missing toddler. Orange County Sheriff's Office spokesman Jim Solomons says a utility worker found the body at 9:32 a.m. today. There is nothing immediately indicating that the bones belong to Caylee Anthony, whose mother Casey Anthony has been charged with her murder.

"It is within close proximity, so there's always that assumption," Carlos Padilla of the Orange County Sheriff's Office told ABC News. "But right now it's just an assumption.

"If we feel the need to go into [the house], we will get a search warrant," he said.

Sheriff Kevin Berry said in a news conference today that he did not know of any other missing children in the area it could be but it is "always a possibility."

Orange County Sheriff's Office spokesman Jim Solomons said, "Everyone's going to be real quick to connect the dots back to the Anthony case but we're not prepared to do that at this time."

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=6441931&page=1
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: dejavu on December 11, 2008, 07:44:09 PM
^^^^^^^

What a shame.

* shakes head *
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on December 11, 2008, 08:25:04 PM
Skull of a Young Child Found Near Home of Caylee Anthony's Grandparents

Once again I'm overwhelmed at the amount of press that this case has generated.  Nancy Grace has been running with this for months.  This is not in any way to diminish the sadness of this little girl's life - or possible death - but in the time that this has been on television we have elected a new president, defeated gay marriage in California, witnessed the death of people in Mumbai (as well as the unreported deaths of those in Afghanistan and Iraq because we've gotten used to that), had the Canadian government come close to falling and continued to witness the destruction of the American economy.  There is a name for this phenomenon:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_white_woman_syndrome

What is strange about this is that other children go missing and you just don't hear about it - for example have you heard of Giovanni Gonzalez?

http://www.bloggernews.net/117440

http://www.parentsbehavingbadly.com/tag/giovanni-gonzalez/

Or what happened to Tangena Hussain?

http://www.dreamindemon.com/2008/10/05/missing-in-michigan-tangena-hussain/

And what about Chioma Gray?

http://www.blackvoices.com/blogs/2008/11/25/chioma-gray-missing/

Or how about Marissa Lopez?

http://findmarissalopez.facesofthemissing.org/blog/
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: CellarDweller115 on December 12, 2008, 05:10:31 AM
LMAO @ Missing White Woman Syndrome.

Michael, have you ever watched "Family Guy"?  There was a episode where they did a small blurb about that.  There was a news reporter talking about a small white girl who was killed in an accident, and all the reporters got wide eyed and held their mics up, and said "aawwwwwwwww", and the person giving the report said he was mistake, and gave out an ethnic name for the child, and the reporters put thier mics down, and started to walk away, saying "well that's not newsworthy".

(the quotes may be off, I don't remember the exact wording used)


What is strange about this is that other children go missing and you just don't hear about it


I think the same can be said for most crimes, however.  I mean, for the gay bashing that gets covered, there are others that don't get mentiond at all.

I think that there are other aspects of a story that will stick out, and bring attention to stories, which cause others to be ignored.

In regards to Caylee, it's not the fact that she disappeared.  It's the fact that her mother waited a month to report her missing, and pics  of her out partying at clubs when she claimed she was looking for Caylee is what put a spotlight on this story, at the expense of the others.


Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on December 12, 2008, 11:39:40 AM
I think the same can be said for most crimes, however.  I mean, for the gay bashing that gets covered, there are others that don't get mentiond at all.

Well, for the most part gay bashing and murders of gay people don't get covered in network news sources - unless a designer in Florida dies.

I think that there are other aspects of a story that will stick out, and bring attention to stories, which cause others to be ignored.

In regards to Caylee, it's not the fact that she disappeared.  It's the fact that her mother waited a month to report her missing, and pics  of her out partying at clubs when she claimed she was looking for Caylee is what put a spotlight on this story, at the expense of the others.

Admittedly her mother is a piece of work.  And yes, that may influence the amount of news coverage.  This has been going on now for half a year now, however, and it seems to have lost all perspective (at least that's what I think when I flip by it on the evening news).  Admittedly, it's probably easier to get Americans interested in that than say this:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=98135986&ft=1&f=1004

And here's an article that puts that in perspective:

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-danelo10-2008dec10,0,3196285.story

What is a shame is that besides Casey Anthony being a hideous mother, what seems to be driving the media coverage of this (particularly on places like Nancy Grace's show) is that she is a photogenic child.  It's much easier to get people to care about something like that than the fact that on our southern border more people are dying in a day in the drug war than die in Iraq or that more die there in a week than died in Mumbai.

It certainly gets a lot more coverage than, for example, the Canadian child soldier that the United States is holding in Guantanamo, Omar Khadr:

http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/features/viewpoints/story.html?id=6fd0c2a9-f1c9-4e99-9484-4a59bd9fb9a9

What I always tend to think in these cases is that a case like Casey and Caylee Anthony (or Scott and Laci Peterson) is something that a lot of people can identify with - 'they look like someone I know, or would see at the supermarket.'
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: graylockV on December 12, 2008, 09:38:17 PM
Under the heading, "I thought he was dead." - Well now he really is.

Actor Van Johnson, '40s heartthrob, dies at 92


NEW YORK – Van Johnson, whose boy-next-door wholesomeness made him a popular Hollywood star in the '40s and '50s with such films as "30 Seconds over Tokyo," "A Guy Named Joe" and "The Caine Mutiny," died Friday of natural causes. He was 92.

Johnson died at Tappan Zee Manor, an assisted living center in Nyack, N.Y., said Wendy Bleisweiss, a close friend.

With his tall, athletic build, handsome, freckled face and sunny personality, the red-haired Johnson starred opposite Esther Williams, June Allyson, Elizabeth Taylor and others during his two decades under contract to MGM.

A heartthrob with bobbysoxers — he was called "the non-singing Sinatra" — Johnson married only once. In 1947 at the height of his career, he eloped to Juarez, Mexico, to marry Eve Wynn, who had divorced Johnson's good friend Keenan Wynn four hours before.

The marriage produced a daughter, Schuyler, and ended bitterly 13 years later. "She wiped me out in the ugliest divorce in Hollywood history," Johnson told reporters.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081212/ap_en_ot/obit_van_johnson
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on December 13, 2008, 10:22:09 AM


Actor Van Johnson, '40s heartthrob, dies at 92


NEW YORK – Van Johnson, whose boy-next-door wholesomeness made him a popular Hollywood star in the '40s and '50s with such films as "30 Seconds over Tokyo," "A Guy Named Joe" and "The Caine Mutiny," died Friday of natural causes. He was 92.

Johnson died at Tappan Zee Manor, an assisted living center in Nyack, N.Y., said Wendy Bleisweiss, a close friend.



In his last movie role in 1992, he played Mr. Ranthow in "Clowning Around", a film that featured Heath Ledger as an 'orphan clown'.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on December 13, 2008, 11:39:07 AM
And Bettie Page died too!  :'(

1950s pinup model Bettie Page dead at 85

LOS ANGELES, California (CNN)  -- Legendary pinup queen Bettie Page died of pneumonia at the age of 85 in a Los Angeles, California, hospital Thursday, a week after suffering a heart attack, according to her agent.

 "She captured the imagination of a generation of men and women with her free spirit and unabashed sensuality," said agent Mark Roesler in a written statement. "She is the embodiment of beauty."

Page, said to be one of the most photographed people of the past century, became a recluse in recent decades. Yet, her images continued to be used around the world to market Bettie Page action figures, clothing lines and other merchandise.

"Her popularity as an underground, guilty pleasures phenomenon has continued to soar despite the fact that the reclusive Page disappeared almost a half century ago, leading many to believe that one of the most photographed individuals of the 20th century was already dead." Roesler said.

The Web site, BettiePage.com, logs about 20 million hits a month, Roesler said. A TVGuide.com poll recently placed Bettie Page as the "ultimate sex goddess," outscoring others such as Marilyn Monroe.

continues:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/12/12/bettie.page.obit/index.html?section=cnn_latest
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on December 13, 2008, 01:51:14 PM
Obama's true colors: Black, white ... or neither?

Quote
A perplexing new chapter is unfolding in Barack Obama's racial saga: Many people insist that "the first black president" is actually not black.

Debate over whether to call this son of a white Kansan and a black Kenyan biracial, African-American, mixed-race, half-and-half, multiracial — or, in Obama's own words, a "mutt" — has reached a crescendo since Obama's election shattered assumptions about race.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081213/ap_on_re_us/obama_s_not_black (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081213/ap_on_re_us/obama_s_not_black)

Why can't everyone simply call him "Mr. President"?
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Rosewood on December 13, 2008, 02:51:56 PM
Van Johnson.
Another one bites the dust.
Pretty soon there'll be NO ONE left from my childhood.
I really did think that when Fred Astaire died, the end would come sooner
rather than later. I just couldn't imagine a world without him in it.
Silly me.
Paul Newman, now Van Johnson.
Fewer and fewer of my ancient icons are left.
Oh well, at least I still have their movies.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on December 13, 2008, 04:07:52 PM
when oh when will they initiate a 24 hour busby berkley channel?
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Rosewood on December 13, 2008, 04:17:00 PM
when oh when will they initiate a 24 hour busby berkley channel?

From your lips to God's ears, Jack.
My favorite besides 42nd STREET is the one with Warren Williams.
GOLDIGGERS OF something or other with Ginger Rogers singing 'We're in the
money..." at the height of the depression and a line of chorus girls holding onto 
huge coins if I remember correctly. I dislike Guy Kibbee intensely, but I bear
him in this film for WW who shows me a vulnerability he never would again.

And by the way, wasn't Dick Powell just the most awful of awful leading men?
He always made me cringe.
Still does.
Even as Philip Marlowe later on when they tried to make a man of him.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Rosewood on December 13, 2008, 04:27:25 PM
A comment or two about the Caylee Anthony murder.

I think one of the reasons this crime shocks and revulses more than some
(besides the obvious mentioned by others, the media fascination with murdered
white girls and all), is that the mother is such a truly vile creature.
I mean, she's worthy of a whole Shakespearean essay, or two or three.
A play, maybe.

Here is a narcicisstic sociopathic creature on par with that Peterson guy out
in California who murdered his pregnant wife. It's the blankness of the stare
that intrigues and makes you want to take a shower. The very same stare
Peterson had.

There's also the very odd though very interesting behavior of the grandparents.
Another essay lurks there, I suspect.

This is the sort of thing that makes you think deep thoughts about the how
and the why of the human race.

Either that or you tune it out completely.
I mean, how to explain such a creature?
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: graylockV on December 13, 2008, 07:17:01 PM

Florida's first couple: Gov. Crist ties the knot


The vows were traditional. The kiss was tender and brief -- perhaps too brief; Rome put her hands on Crist's face and kissed him again. Afterward, the couple walked out of the church and addressed waiting reporters.


http://www.miamiherald.com/news/southflorida/v-print/story/811213.html

Interesting how this brief insinuation was slipped into the Miami Herald's coverage.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on December 13, 2008, 11:28:48 PM
when oh when will they initiate a 24 hour busby berkley channel?

From your lips to God's ears, Jack.
My favorite besides 42nd STREET is the one with Warren Williams.
GOLDIGGERS OF something or other with Ginger Rogers singing 'We're in the
money..." at the height of the depression and a line of chorus girls holding onto 
huge coins if I remember correctly. I dislike Guy Kibbee intensely, but I bear
him in this film for WW who shows me a vulnerability he never would again.

And by the way, wasn't Dick Powell just the most awful of awful leading men?
He always made me cringe.
Still does.
Even as Philip Marlowe later on when they tried to make a man of him.


Gold Diggers of 1933

It also has one of my favorite BB numbers, the 'Shadow Waltz' with the neon violins.

But my all-time favorite is 'Lullaby of Broadway' from Gold Diggers of 1935.

Not sure how this is News or Current Events. just thinkin' out loud.  :D
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Ennis Del Mark on December 14, 2008, 05:35:47 AM
According to Hollywood lore, while the neon violins sequence was being filmed, an earthquake occured in Hollywood and this caused some power glitches, and some of the violins short-circuited, shocking some of the chorus girls.

So see, John?  This is CURRENT events!    :D


Mark
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: fritzkep on December 14, 2008, 06:32:27 AM
 :D  :D  :D     8)

Good one, Mark!

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on December 14, 2008, 09:53:01 AM
those movies, those dances, those special effects put such a grin on my face it takes away the sting of current events, even if for too short a time.

and ginger rogers in her maribou feathered dress, lol.

(i always said every woman should have a ginger rogers dress at least once in her life) 
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on December 14, 2008, 12:21:54 PM
A comment or two about the Caylee Anthony murder.

I think one of the reasons this crime shocks and revulses more than some
(besides the obvious mentioned by others, the media fascination with murdered
white girls and all), is that the mother is such a truly vile creature.{snip}

Either that or you tune it out completely.
I mean, how to explain such a creature?

I've been rather interested in sociopaths and psychopaths for years.  And, for me, Casey Anderson is not a very interesting one.

By comparison, take a look at some of the other recent mothers who have killed their children - you have Susan Smith - who did it because her boyfriend didn't want kids and then blamed a factitious black man:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Smith

There's also Andrea Yates - who has always seemed to me to be an emotionally battered woman suffering from severe postpartum depression:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Yates

Theresa Knorr killed two of her children and her ex-husband - and used her other children to cover up the murders of the children she killed:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theresa_Knorr

And there's Waneta Hoyt who seems to have been the next step down the road from Munchausen syndrome by proxy - she killed her 5 children and blamed it off on Sudden Infant Death Syndrome - and wasted an incredible amount of time by doctors:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waneta_Hoyt

And if you want to talk about tragedy there's the case of Lashaun Harris, who threw her 3 children into San Francisco bay because the voices in her head told her to - falling through the cracks of the social services system:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/05/24/BAGSUJ15GF1.DTL&hw=lashaun+harris&sn=001&sc=1000

And if you want to extend the parameters to beyond women who kill their own children there's the case of Gertrude Baniszewski, who tortured (with the help of both her own children and other neighborhood children) a child put in her care:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gertrude_Baniszewski

And, of course, there is the case of Joel Steinberg, who abused his wife and two children:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_Steinberg

The thing is that when women kill, they often kill those closest to them - their children:

http://www.allacademic.com/meta/p_mla_apa_research_citation/0/3/2/6/3/p32633_index.html

As to why...well psychiatrists and alienists before them have been trying to figure out what is exactly 'missing' in sociopaths and psychopaths for years - all the way back to the 19th century when they called it 'moral insanity':

http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/36/10/21

Although there are theories about upbringing and affection in early childhood - or in actual brain differences - the jury seems to be out, from all I've heard.  So you don't really can't explain such creatures, R. - they are beyond the pale of normal human experience.

But though the death of Caylee Anthony is tragic, I still don't think that Casey Anthony rates much attention as a murderer.  But then again, I just read 'Devil in White City' about Dr. H. H. Holmes, who killed somewhere between 9 and 200 people, so that may have affected my perception:

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/history/holmes/index_1.html

Now who's up for more Busby Berkeley discussion?
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: fritzkep on December 14, 2008, 01:51:28 PM
Now who's up for more Busby Berkeley discussion?

(http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/4348/uniformmilitary12lh4.jpg)

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on December 14, 2008, 01:57:18 PM
BTW, for those interested in a bit more about some of those cases referred to above there are two books I've read on them (besides 'Devil in White City') that I would recommend.  'Waverly Place' by Susan Brownmiller (a novelization of the Joel Steinberg/Hedda Nussbaum murder):

http://www.susanbrownmiller.com/susanbrownmiller/html/waverly_place.html

And 'The Basement' by Kate Millett (about Gertrude Baniszewski):

http://www.amazon.com/Basement-Kate-Millett/dp/0671247638

Fascinating analysis of the psychodynamics of power and violence by two of my favorite authors.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on December 15, 2008, 12:58:24 PM
It's interesting that at the same time that Caylee Anthony went missing that there was the spate of children up to their teens being turned loose in Nebraska.  I wonder how much the economic downturn is involved in this sort of disintegration of families and how much is just a change in how much responsibility parents feel for their children now.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on December 15, 2008, 06:48:59 PM
Here's an interesting suggestion from 'The Motley Fool' website:

Here's an idea. How about everyone send Bush a shoe as a token support for the Iraqi journalist?
Let's get a million shoes delivered to the White House.
Just throw it in a padded postal envelope and send to

The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20500

http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=27271985&sort=postdate
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on December 16, 2008, 01:18:29 AM
Here's an interesting suggestion from 'The Motley Fool' website:

Here's an idea. How about everyone send Bush a shoe as a token support for the Iraqi journalist?
Let's get a million shoes delivered to the White House.
Just throw it in a padded postal envelope and send to

The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20500

http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=27271985&sort=postdate
i love it... even i can afford it, as it can be something as inexpensive as a flip-flop.  in fact, the greater variety of shoes, the more they represent the many different lives forever impacted or lost by bush's administration.

a fitting tribute to a failed president and a failed man.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: CellarDweller115 on December 16, 2008, 06:54:01 AM
It's interesting that at the same time that Caylee Anthony went missing that there was the spate of children up to their teens being turned loose in Nebraska.  I wonder how much the economic downturn is involved in this sort of disintegration of families and how much is just a change in how much responsibility parents feel for their children now.

This is a conversation we were having at lunch just last week.

How can someone just drop off their children like that?
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on December 16, 2008, 07:06:52 AM
It's interesting that at the same time that Caylee Anthony went missing that there was the spate of children up to their teens being turned loose in Nebraska.  I wonder how much the economic downturn is involved in this sort of disintegration of families and how much is just a change in how much responsibility parents feel for their children now.

This is a conversation we were having at lunch just last week.

How can someone just drop off their children like that?
simple answer to a complex question.  one would have to "walk a mile in their moccasins" to ever know the answer.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on December 18, 2008, 07:30:05 PM
Bush Administration Proposal Would Extend 'Right Of Conscience' Rule To Cover More Workers, Treatments
Article Date: 03 Dec 2008 - 3:00 PST

The Bush administration is set to announce an expansion of the "right of conscience" rule that would allow all health care workers to refuse to participate in "objectionable procedures," such as abortion or birth control, the Los Angeles Times reports. Current law allows health care workers to decline to perform abortions, but the expanded rule would allow health care workers also to refuse to provide information or counseling about abortion or participate in other "objectionable procedures." A draft of the rule says it would cover even "an employee whose task it is to clean the instruments."

HHS officials say the expanded rule would apply to "any entity" receiving federal funding, meaning about 584,000 entities could be affected, including 4,800 hospitals, 234,000 physician offices and 58,000 pharmacies.

HHS said the rule is necessary because of "an attitude that health care professionals should be required to provide or assist in the provision of medicine or procedures to which they object, or else risk being subjected to discrimination." In a media briefing, HHS Secretary Mike Leavitt said the rule was focused on abortion, not contraception.

Supporters of the proposal said it will protect doctors who do not wish to perform abortions or provide birth control to unmarried women, or perform artificial insemination procedures. David Stevens, president of the Christian Medical Association, said, "The real battle line is the morning-after pill," adding, "Doctors should not be required to dispense a medication they have a moral objection to."

Critics of the rule say patients' health would be sacrificed to protect personal religious beliefs of providers. Judith Waxman, a lawyer for the National Women's Law Center, said, "This goes way beyond abortion," potentially affecting contraception, sperm donation and end-of-life care. She added, "This kind of rule could wreak havoc in a hospital if any employee can declare they are not willing to do certain parts of their job."

continues:

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/131571.php
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: fritzkep on December 18, 2008, 07:48:36 PM
Convenient.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on December 19, 2008, 01:45:27 PM
It's actually pretty horrifying Fritz.  We could have people deciding they're not going to sell condoms because they don't believe in extramarital sex, as well as people who refuse to sell AIDS medications because they don't believe treating the illness is god's will.

Just hope you don't have a Christian Science pharmacist....
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on December 19, 2008, 02:46:29 PM
Recount: 'You Don't Know There's Not Someone Named Lizard People'
Coleman withdraws ballot challenges, about 800 remain

ST. PAUL, Minn. (FOX 9) -- The Minnesota state Canvassing Board inched closer to its goal of reviewing the roughly 800 remaining ballot challenges by the end of the week, with the Norm Coleman campaign withdrawing another 400 challenges Thursday.

Coleman spokesman Mark Drake predicted Al Franken would take the lead Thursday for the first time in the recount as many of Coleman's withdrawals go into Franken's column. Drake said it would be a "temporary flip" that Coleman would overcome later as other withdrawn challenges are awarded to the candidates.

Coleman entered the week phase with a 188-vote lead in the recount, which increased to 360 votes after the Canvassing Board burned its first tow days reviewing, and mostly rejecting, Franken challenges. As Coleman's challenges came before the board, Franken was benefiting from the board's high rate of rejection.

The Canvassing Board also dealt with the infamous "Lizard People" ballot, so dubbed because a voter who chose Franken also wrote in "Lizard People" in the same section of the ballot. The ballot was challenged as an overvote.

Marc Elias, Franken's attorney, argued that Lizard People was not a genuine write-in.

Eric Magnuson, the state Supreme Court chief justice serving on the board, responded: "You don't know there's not someone named Lizard People."

http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=8100809&version=2&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.2.1
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: fritzkep on December 19, 2008, 04:00:10 PM
It's actually pretty horrifying Fritz.  We could have people deciding they're not going to sell condoms because they don't believe in extramarital sex, as well as people who refuse to sell AIDS medications because they don't believe treating the illness is god's will.

Just hope you don't have a Christian Science pharmacist....

Yes, when a person of fundamentalist persuasion is denied some sort of medical treatment because it conflicts with a caregiver's conscience, or even mood, there will be a howl of outrage, probably in the form of accusation of religious persecution and bigotry.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on December 19, 2008, 05:05:34 PM
Yes, when a person of fundamentalist persuasion is denied some sort of medical treatment because it conflicts with a caregiver's conscience, or even mood, there will be a howl of outrage, probably in the form of accusation of religious persecution and bigotry.

This sort of thing was already used for political capital in the Terry Schiavo case:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002213728_memo20.html

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: fritzkep on December 19, 2008, 05:24:21 PM
Yes, I remember that one. One of the Newsweek commentators described that as the beginning of the end of the reign of the religious right. I wish it were, but I don't think I'd go that far, at least not yet.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Rosewood on December 19, 2008, 07:10:11 PM
Oh, it is too delicious.
Sarah Palin's daughter's fiance's mother (phew!) has been arrested
for felony drug possession in Alaska. CNN just had some one of their
bulletins.

Talk about redneck hijinks up in the land of mooseshooting. Ah, the mind boggles.
Can you just imagine these people skulking about the White House?
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: fritzkep on December 19, 2008, 07:16:06 PM
Remember how brave the daughter and her fiancé were depicted during the election?

If the Obama children were older and were to have acted in that manner, the conservatives, especially the religious right would have made all sorts of undisguised class and racial comments.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: graylockV on December 19, 2008, 11:49:56 PM
Wasilla is said to be the meth capital of Alaska.  And Bristol's mother-in-law-to-be was arrested, not just for possession, but also for manufacture of drugs.

I guess Bristol and Levi would have gotten married already but someone set the church on fire.  (Any bets on that wedding ever coming to pass?)

Damn.  If Sarah had been elected at least we would have had some good soap opera to watch while waiting in the soup lines of the new Great Depression.

Bread and circuses.  Well at least the circuses.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: fritzkep on December 20, 2008, 09:00:33 AM
I also wonder if the wedding will ever take place, now that the election's over.

Since even if she should try running for President in 2012, her adoring public would have a very short-term memory in that regard.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: CellarDweller115 on December 20, 2008, 12:37:58 PM
Join the Impact and Amy Balliett Urge Gay Marriage Supporters to 'Light up the Night'

By Maggie Taylor | Article Date: 12/19/2008 11:56 AM


Amy Balliett, the mastermind behind the nationwide Join the Impact rallies that occurred just a week after the election during which Prop. 8 passed and gay marriage was overturned in California, is urging people to join Light up the Night for Equal Rights, Dec. 20.

“Just like on November 15th, we have cities from all around the country and the world joining together to spread the message of equal rights,” Balliett wrote on the Join the Impact website. “Light up the Night is an amazing opportunity to build allies and bridge the gap of understanding for those that oppose us.”

http://www.gaywired.com/Article.cfm?Section=66&ID=21203
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on December 20, 2008, 02:09:07 PM
Here's an interesting perspective....

Many in Serbia amused, even proud, as Blagojevich defiant in corruption case
Associated Press
Sunday, December 14, 2008

Belgrade, Serbia —- The case of Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich is not just making headlines in America. It is also top news in Serbia, the land of his ancestors.

Pictures of Blagojevich have dotted the main pages of Serbian newspapers since the FBI accused him of trying to sell the Senate seat of President-elect Barack Obama.

“The Governor Defying Entire America,” announced a headline Friday in the daily newspaper Blic after Blagojevich refused to step down amid mounting pressure.

Illinois has the largest Serbian community in the United States. Serb newspapers say the Blagojevich family originated in Serbia and moved to the United States after World War II. Reports about Blagojevich appear prominently on local television stations. State TV’s prime-time news Wednesday evening had live coverage from Chicago.

Blic reported this week that the villagers in Velike Krcmare, which it called the home village of the family, refuse to believe that Blagojevich could be guilty.

“We watched the news and could not sleep all night. He must have been framed, it’s all politics,” Dragan Blagovic, described as a cousin of the governor, was quoted as saying.

Cousin Dragan appeared again in Friday’s Blic, saying his famous relative still owns some land in the village so “he can come to Serbia if he cannot take it any more in America. He can have a cow or a pig or two, a chicken. … He is always welcome.”

Some Serbs referred jokingly to their own country’s record of corruption following decades of communism and the rule of autocrat Slobodan Milosevic. A Blic headline read “American Corruption the Serbian Way.”

continues:

http://www.ajc.com/services/content/printedition/2008/12/14/blagojevich.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on December 22, 2008, 09:38:06 AM
The Pope said it is just as important to save the gays from themselves as it is to save the Rainforest.

Pope Benedict said on Monday that saving humanity from homosexual or transsexual behavior was just as important as saving the rainforest from destruction.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/lifestyleMolt/idUKTRE4BL2FE20081222
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on December 22, 2008, 10:19:07 AM
The Pope said it is just as important to save the gays from themselves as it is to save the Rainforest.

Pope Benedict said on Monday that saving humanity from homosexual or transsexual behavior was just as important as saving the rainforest from destruction.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/lifestyleMolt/idUKTRE4BL2FE20081222

Well...at least he didn't compare us to whales.... ::)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on December 23, 2008, 07:48:25 AM
My thoughts are with those in CA. Your state is in a mess. Well, so is mine with a $5 Billion Deficit. WE haven't had a balanced budget in about 12 years here in MN. We can't raise taxes, so we raise Fees. Make sense to me.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/23/california-broke-state-co_n_153022.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on December 23, 2008, 12:15:44 PM
Read about whit militia's attacking black during Katrina. Really no surprise to me.


The new information should reframe our understanding of the catastrophe. Immediately after the storm, the media portrayed African-Americans as looters and thugs--Mayor Ray Nagin, for example, told Oprah Winfrey that "hundreds of gang members" were marauding through the Superdome. Now it's clear that some of the most serious crimes committed during that time were the work of gun-toting white males.

So far, their crimes have gone unpunished. No one was ever arrested for shooting Herrington, Alexander and Collins--in fact, there was never an investigation. I found this story repeated over and over during my days in New Orleans. As a reporter who has spent more than a decade covering crime, I was startled to meet so many people with so much detailed information about potentially serious offenses, none of whom had ever been interviewed by police detectives.  


http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090105/thompson
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on December 24, 2008, 02:48:06 PM
You Can't Make This Shit Up!


S.F. fliers may pay their way in carbon usage

Quote
Environmentally conscious travelers flying out of San Francisco International Airport will soon be able to assuage their guilt and minimize the impact of their air travel by buying certified carbon offsets at airport kiosks.

The experimental program, scheduled to start this spring, would make SFO the first airport in the nation - possibly the world - to offer fliers the opportunity to purchase carbon offsets.

"We'd like people to stop and consider the impacts of flying," said Steve McDougal, executive vice president for 3Degrees, a San Francisco firm that sells renewable-energy and carbon-reduction investments and is teaming up with the airport and the city on the project. "Obviously, people need to fly sometimes. No one expects them to stop, but they should consider taking steps to reduce their impacts."
::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/12/24/MNIR14PSQF.DTL (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/12/24/MNIR14PSQF.DTL)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: CellarDweller115 on December 25, 2008, 06:37:06 PM
sad news on the holiday!

 :'( :'( :'( :'(




Eartha Kitt, sultry 'Santa Baby' singer, dies

By POLLY ANDERSON, Associated Press Writer


Eartha Kitt, a sultry singer, dancer and actress who rose from South Carolina cotton fields to become an international symbol of elegance and sensuality, has died, a family spokesman said. She was 81.

Andrew Freedman said Kitt, who was recently treated at Columbia Presbyterian Hospital, died Thursday in Connecticut of colon cancer.

Kitt, a self-proclaimed "sex kitten" famous for her catlike purr, was one of America's most versatile performers, winning two Emmys and nabbing a third nomination. She also was nominated for several Tonys and two Grammys.

Her career spanned six decades, from her start as a dancer with the famed Katherine Dunham troupe to cabarets and acting and singing on stage, in movies and on television. She persevered through an unhappy childhood as a mixed-race daughter of the South and made headlines in the 1960s for denouncing the Vietnam War during a visit to the White House.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081225/ap_on_en_tv/obit_eartha_kitt
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on December 25, 2008, 07:01:03 PM
oh that is a shame.  another iconic figure of my life gone.  oddly, i just spoke of her today as some muzaky white girl singer murdered "santa baby" at my mother's abode.  i could hear her singing it, or should i say purring it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51jD859fEsE
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: CellarDweller115 on December 25, 2008, 07:03:36 PM
Hiya Jack!

I know that Madonna did a version of Santa Baby.....don't know if anyone else has covered it as well.

If you are interested, there are a number of recent posts in the "What are You Listening to Now" thread with links to Eartha's music.

I posted two of her 80s gems "Where Is My Man" and "I Love Men".
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on December 26, 2008, 10:35:58 AM
Hiya Jack!

I know that Madonna did a version of Santa Baby.....don't know if anyone else has covered it as well.

If you are interested, there are a number of recent posts in the "What are You Listening to Now" thread with links to Eartha's music.

I posted two of her 80s gems "Where Is My Man" and "I Love Men".
one of eartha mae's introductory lines in here latter years concerts to SANTA BABY was a rather snarky "ï used to have a lot of fun with this song............... and then madonna recorded it."   
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on December 26, 2008, 12:20:25 PM
=
one of eartha mae's introductory lines in here latter years concerts to SANTA BABY was a rather snarky "ï used to have a lot of fun with this song............... and then madonna recorded it."   

I don't know if I'd call that snarky - perhaps 'accurate' is a better term.

Currently (on allmusic.com) there are 117 versions of 'Santa Baby' - including versions by Lynn Anderson, Sheila E., Macy Gray (I'd kind of like to hear that version), Julie London, Freda Payne and RuPaul.  It was written by Joan Ellen Javits (the niece of Senator Jacob Javits) and was first recorded by Eartha Mae in 1953.

http://www.interfaithfamily.com/arts_and_entertainment/movies_theater_tv_and_music/The_Jews_Who_Wrote_Christmas_Songs.shtml

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on December 26, 2008, 12:49:55 PM
She certainly was someone who believed in speaking truth to power:

Eartha Kitt versus the LBJs

by Frank James

Say what you will about Eartha Kitt, the American original of a performer who died at 81 on Christmas Day, she certainly knew how to disrupt a White House event.

One of the best Kitt stories ever has to be how she gave First Lady Lady Bird Johnson the blues in 1968. A petite woman, Kitt had an out-sized ego and just as sizable chip on her shoulder, the latter the result of an unhappy childhood she often talked of (a biracial child born out of wedlock in 1927 small-town South Carolina. You get the picture.)

The White House story was captured by David Murphy in a biography of Mrs. Johnson called "Texas Bluebonnet: Lady Bird Johnson."

As the president was contemplating his future, Lady Bird went on with her official duties and hosted a Women Doers lunch on Jan. 18, 1968 that was to focus on crime. Singer and actress Eartha Kitt was invited upon the recommendation of Sharon Francis and Liz Carpenter since Kitt had testified to Congress in favor of the President's anti-crime legislation. When President Johnson entered the room, Kitt confronted him, "Mr. President, what do you do about delinquent parents, those who have to work and are too busy to look after their children?" He told her that Social Security legislation was just passed that provided millions of dollars for daycare centers. Kitt was not pleased but Johnson told her those were issues for the women to discuss at the lunch.

During the question period, Kitt stood up and confronted Lady Bird, "Boys I know across the nation feel it doesn't pay to be a good guy." She moved into (sic) closer to the First Lady and said that boys don't want to behave for fear of being sent to Vietnam saying, "You are a mother too though you have had daughters and not sons. I am a mother and I know the feeling of having a baby come out of my guts. I have a baby and then you send him off to war. No wonder the kids rebel and take pot. And Mrs. Johnson, in case you don't understand the lingo, that's marijuana.

continues:

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/12/eartha_kitts_versus_the_lbjs.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on December 26, 2008, 03:59:06 PM
Of course that encounter between Ladybird and Eartha inspired the Cockettes film 'Tricia's Wedding' 

http://www.noehill.com/cockettes/tricia.asp
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: WhenPigsFly on December 26, 2008, 04:39:19 PM
She certainly was someone who believed in speaking truth to power:

That's why  I was so surprised to see her performing for Bush 43 and Laura (in that clip that Jack mentioned).

Don't tell me she mellowed with the years.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on December 26, 2008, 05:00:32 PM
That's why  I was so surprised to see her performing for Bush 43 and Laura (in that clip that Jack mentioned).

Don't tell me she mellowed with the years.

I don't think she did.  I don't know what to say about her being with Bush besides that it's tough being an older performer in the U.S.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Ennis Del Mark on December 26, 2008, 05:15:05 PM
I always thought that Kitt was a tad tactless in the way she handled this.  You don't cause a scene with your hostess when you're invited to a gathering.  Kitt certainly was correct in what she said but I guess she couldn't tone down the flamboyance with which she said it.  (Of course with that voice, "please pass the salt" has an erotic charge to it.)  I've always liked Lady Bird and thought she handled the situation gracefully and I've always liked Eartha, too.  Maybe a private chat would have been better.
Who knows?

Mark
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on December 26, 2008, 05:40:47 PM
I think that it's pretty unlikely that Ladybird would have granted Eartha a private audience.  Plus, it's important to realize this in the context of the times.  This was the year of the Prague Spring and the Paris student riots...and the year 'Hair' opened on Broadway.  I believe that what Eartha was doing there was as much political theater as anything else - I don't think she deluded herself for a moment to think that Ladybird was interested in what she had to say - or that saying it to her in private would have any effect.  Part of the message was to express in public to the first family that the American people were sick of the war.  And given that people were blowing up draft boards to get that point across, I think Eartha's message was rather peaceful.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on December 26, 2008, 06:40:42 PM
and tact and manners make really poor change engines...
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Ennis Del Mark on December 26, 2008, 07:29:53 PM
So do tactlessness and no manners at all...there's got to be a happy medium.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: CellarDweller115 on December 26, 2008, 09:21:48 PM
Not only was Eartha Kitt an icon, she knew who her fan base was.

This is a quote from Eartha Kitt in a book I have called "The Book Of Gay Lists".  This list is "14 Gay Icons, and what They've Said About Gay Men."


"When I got into trouble in the '60s, gay men were the ones who kept my career alive.  They were looking for my records and female impersonators contantly imitated Eartha Kitt.  They kept my memory going until I returned, and I'm grateful for that."
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on December 26, 2008, 10:18:32 PM
So do tactlessness and no manners at all...there's got to be a happy medium.
on this point we can tactfully agree to disagree, while the well mannered rick warren politely calls you a incestuous pedophile.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Ennis Del Mark on December 26, 2008, 10:50:44 PM
And I would politely tell him he is wrong.

And politely tell YOU...good night.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on December 27, 2008, 01:03:33 AM
So do tactlessness and no manners at all...there's got to be a happy medium.

Um...actually no - tactlessness and no manners are generally the way things change - the Russian Revolution, the French Revolution, the American Revolution, the conquest of the new world, Africa and Asia - the overthrow of the colonial regimes, the defeat of the Nazis, the Warsaw uprising - all very impolite.  Even the history of the British Empire, a place well renown for a sense of propriety, was not particularly tactful in the Boer War, the occupation of China, the shipping of convicts to Australia and the subjugation of India.  Not to be impolite, but history is pretty tactless.

ETA: And I didn't even get around to slavery, the Civil War and the Creek War, the trail of tears and Andrew Jackson, and the wars against the Seminole.  Messy, messy stuff. 
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on December 27, 2008, 02:51:39 AM
And social movement - attempts to change things positively - are often as violent and impolite as all the rest - the abolitionist movement, the suffrage movement, parts of the civil rights movement, etc.

Never forget - Stonewall was a riot (as they say.... ;)).  And the people who asked politely for their rights were either ignored or jailed (read 'The Mayor of Castro Street' with us - the first part of it is a good history of this period).
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on December 29, 2008, 12:34:32 AM
Study: Murders among black youths on rise
By LARA JAKES, Associated Press Writer Lara Jakes, Associated Press Writer   – 2 hrs 27 mins ago

WASHINGTON – The number of young black men and teenagers who either killed or were killed in shootings has risen at an alarming rate since 2000, a new study shows.

The study, to be released Monday by criminologists at Northeastern University in Boston, comes as FBI data is showing that murders have leveled off nationwide.

Not so for black teens, the youngest of whom saw dramatic increases in shooting deaths, the Northeastern report concluded.

Last year, for example, 426 black males between the ages of 14 and 17 were killed in gun crimes, the study shows. That marked a 40 percent increase from 2000.

Similarly, an estimated 964 in the same age group committed fatal shootings in 2007 — a 38 percent increase from seven years earlier. The number of offenders is estimated because not all crimes are reported, said Northeastern criminologist James Alan Fox, who co-authored the study.

"Although the overall rate of homicide in the United States remains relatively low, the landscape is quite different for countless Americans living, and some dying, in violence-infested neighborhoods," Fox said.

Seizing on President-elect Barack Obama's incoming administration as an opportunity for more funding, Fox added: "There is an urgency for reinvestment in children and families. In essence, we need a bailout for kids at risk."

continues:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081229/ap_on_re_us/black_homicides;_ylt=AjE6q4VLueekxmeu5PNLhGADW7oF
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on December 29, 2008, 12:28:10 PM
The Holday Season was the worst in 40 years. THANK YOU Bush and company. More layoffs coming. But I was not surprised. I just came back from Fort Walton Beach, FL. and the Condo complex where my mother and step-father are staying at was down 60% from last year. They said most of the snow birds are coming after the holidays and staying shorter amount of time there. WE are in scary times with the Crisis all over the world.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=ajAqMbszJmNY&refer=home
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on December 29, 2008, 01:08:51 PM
hope you had a pleasant stay... your absence was definitely noticed.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on December 30, 2008, 08:43:58 AM
The GOP attack Bush Calling him a Socialist. Do they know the meaning of that word or not?

In what would amount to a slap in the face to a sitting Republican president and the party's Senate and House leaders, national GOP officials, including the vice chairman of the Republican National Committee, are sponsoring a resolution opposing the resort to "socialist" means to save capitalism.  

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/dec/30/rnc-pushes-unprecedented-criticism-of-bailouts/
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: fritzkep on December 30, 2008, 11:49:00 AM
Didn't take long for the GOP to officially turn on him, did they? I had expected they'd wait to trash him until after he was out of office. They will of course suddenly discover that all along he had not been a conservative. Which is actually true, in the sense of a classic fiscal conservative, but one could not discern that attitude about his political alignment until relatively recently.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on December 30, 2008, 12:46:46 PM
The GOP attack Bush Calling him a Socialist. Do they know the meaning of that word or not?

I think they get it confused with 'socialite.'
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on January 02, 2009, 08:22:16 AM
More Muslims were kick out of another plane. I know somewhat how they feel. I went to Orlando in 2005, and I was reading the Quaran on the flight. You should see the looks I got. I thought I was going to be escorted off the plane. I was kind of scared too.
I'm not even a Muslim. I was just reading a book. 



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/02/nine-muslim-passengers-ki_n_154750.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on January 02, 2009, 09:52:58 PM
I'm not even a Muslim. I was just reading a book. 

You should learn to ululate.  Scarves help in this situation as well, I've found.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on January 02, 2009, 09:54:59 PM
Haunted Wal-Mart, anyone?

Historians battle Wal-Mart over key Civil War site
12:06 PST Locust Grove, Va.

Wal-Mart wants to build a Supercenter within a cannonshot of where Robert E. Lee and Ulysses S. Grant first fought, a proposal that has preservationists rallying to protect the key Civil War site.

A who's who of historians including filmmaker Ken Burns and Pulitzer Prize winner David McCullough sent a letter last month to H. Lee Scott, president and CEO of Wal-Mart Stores Inc., urging the company to build somewhere farther from the Wilderness Battlefield.

"The Wilderness is an indelible part of our history, its very ground hallowed by the American blood spilled there, and it cannot be moved," said the letter from 253 scholars and others.

Wal-Mart and its supporters point out that the 138,000-square-foot store would be right behind a bank and a small strip mall, a full mile from entrance to the site of the 1864 clash that left thousands dead and hastened the war's end.

Local leaders also want the $500,000 in tax revenue they estimate the big box store will generate for rural Orange County, a gradually growing area about 60 miles southwest of Washington.

"In these economic times, the fact that Wal-Mart wants to come into the county is an economic plus," said R. Mark Johnson, a tire shop owner and chairman of the county's board of supervisors. "This is hardly pristine wilderness we're talking about."

Grant's Union troops were headed to Richmond on May 4, 1864, when they confronted Lee's Confederate Army of Northern Virginia. The Battle of the Wilderness involved more than 100,000 Union troops and 61,000 Confederates. The fighting, according to National Park Service estimates, left more than 4,000 dead and 20,000 wounded.

Some 2,700 acres of the Wilderness Battlefield are protected as part of the Fredericksburg and Spotsylvania National Military Park.

Preservationists regularly square off against developers in Virginia, where much of the Civil War was fought.

This dispute, however, has stirred an outcry similar to the one in 1994 over The Walt Disney Co.'s plans to build a $650 million theme park within miles of the Manassas Battlefield. The entertainment giant bowed to public pressure and abandoned the project.

Bentonville, Ark.-based Wal-Mart, which opened nearly 200 stores in the U.S. in 2007, said it studied a lengthy list of sites in Orange County before settling on the spot near the battlefield and its gentle hills dissected by neat footpaths.

continues:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/01/02/national/a113007S18.DTL
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: fritzkep on January 02, 2009, 09:58:11 PM
Grrrr....   >:(

Wal-Mart also tried to build one near the farm where Washington grew up, too. Fortunately they were defeated. What's with these people anyway?

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on January 02, 2009, 10:04:48 PM
It's truly bizarre that they would pit themselves against preservationists repeatedly.  You would think they'd learn.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: killersmom on January 02, 2009, 10:25:17 PM
They tried to do the same thing in a little town close to San Antonio. This was on a an environmentally fragile area. Even though the local govenrment supported it like they did in the instance you sited here, Michael, it was defeated.

I hope they fight this one here. It does no good to appeal to the Wal Mart executives, because they don't care.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on January 02, 2009, 11:57:33 PM
They tried to do the same thing in a little town close to San Antonio. This was on a an environmentally fragile area. Even though the local govenrment supported it like they did in the instance you sited here, Michael, it was defeated.

I hope they fight this one here. It does no good to appeal to the Wal Mart executives, because they don't care.

It's really insane.  They already have a reputation for closing mom and pop businesses, you'd think they'd care a bit more about their p.r. - but as you say, apparently not.  I too hope they defeat this - it's good that they're drawing the attention of people as noteworthy as Ken Burns.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: WhenPigsFly on January 05, 2009, 01:01:13 AM
Quote
A Donor's Gift Soon Followed Clinton's Help
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/04/washington/04clinton.html?_r=1&pagewanted=print
January 4, 2009

By CHARLIE SAVAGE

WASHINGTON — An upstate New York developer donated $100,000 to former President Bill Clinton's foundation in November 2004, around the same time that Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton helped secure millions of dollars in federal assistance for the businessman's mall project.

Mrs. Clinton helped enact legislation allowing the developer, Robert J. Congel, to use tax-exempt bonds to help finance the construction of the Destiny USA entertainment and shopping complex, an expansion of the Carousel Center in Syracuse.

Mrs. Clinton also helped secure a provision in a highway bill that set aside $5 million for Destiny USA roadway construction.

The bill with the tax-free bonds provision became law in October 2004, weeks before the donation, and the highway bill with the set-aside became law in August 2005, about nine months after the donation.
 
Mr. Congel and Philippe Reines, a spokesman for Mrs. Clinton, both said there was no connection between his donation and her legislative work on his project's behalf. Mr. Reines said Mrs. Clinton supported the expansion of Carousel mall "purely as part of her unwavering commitment to improving upstate New York's struggling economy, and nothing more."

  [...]

By some estimates, the [tax-exempt "green bonds"] program could cost the Treasury about $200 million.

The way the legislation was written, Mr. Congel's Syracuse development, which he agreed to build and run in a way that promotes renewable energy and recycling, was one of just a handful of projects that would qualify.

His contribution is the only known situation so far in which an American donor gave a large sum to Mr. Clinton's foundation while benefiting from his wife's official actions. Mr. Reines said that Mrs. Clinton did not solicit the donation from Mr. Congel or discuss it with him or anyone on his behalf, and that she was unaware of its timing and size until last month.

[...]

Although Mr. Congel has sometimes given money to Democrats, he is a major Republican campaign fund-raiser. In 2004, he was a "Bush Ranger," gathering more than $200,000 in bundled contributions for the Bush-Cheney re-election effort.

In the most recent election cycle, he donated money to the Republican National Committee and to the Republican presidential primary campaigns of Rudolph W. Giuliani, Fred D. Thompson and Mitt Romney.

But Mr. Congel said there was nothing incongruous about his donation to Mr. Clinton's foundation. "I have a huge interest in our country, and I thought Clinton was a great president," Mr. Congel said. He added, "I think he's a dedicated, dedicated American, and I'm a dedicated, dedicated American, and when we have a president I think we have a right, privilege and obligation to support that president. And I did that with Clinton, and I did that with Bush."
[...]
 
 
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on January 05, 2009, 06:44:56 AM
Ann Coulter trashes Michelle Obama in her new book. Ann needs to get over this. Her hate filled books are getting old. They are also not selling like they use to either.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/03/ann-coulter-slams-michell_n_154947.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on January 05, 2009, 10:43:07 AM
Ann Coulter trashes Michelle Obama in her new book. Ann needs to get over this. Her hate filled books are getting old. They are also not selling like they use to either.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/03/ann-coulter-slams-michell_n_154947.html

I don't know Tom, when the Clintons were in office there was an absolute cottage industry going on creating hate filled books about them.  It seems to take years for this sort of trend to end - till people really don't care anymore.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on January 06, 2009, 12:53:02 PM
Has anyone else had any demonstrations or protests in their
cities concerning the Gaza bombings etc.?  I haven't heard of any
but there's been several in Los Angeles.  Two days ago Wilshire
Blvd. was closed between Fairfax and San Vicente while groups of
Israeli protestors and Arab protestors were kept on either side of the blvd.
for hours shouting at each other with the police in the middle.  There are
several more planned.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on January 06, 2009, 01:04:16 PM
San Francisco had a protest, but as usual it doesn't get noticed outside of the city.

Pro-Palestinian protest at Federal Building

Quote
More than 200 pro-Palestinian demonstrators protested Monday outside Sen. Dianne Feinstein's office and the Federal Building in San Francisco, venting anger over Israel's military offensive in the Gaza Strip

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/01/06/MNU4153SE1.DTL&hw=gaza+protest&sn=003&sc=413 (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/01/06/MNU4153SE1.DTL&hw=gaza+protest&sn=003&sc=413)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on January 06, 2009, 01:45:09 PM
San Francisco had a protest, but as usual it doesn't get noticed outside of the city.

Pro-Palestinian protest at Federal Building

Quote
More than 200 pro-Palestinian demonstrators protested Monday outside Sen. Dianne Feinstein's office and the Federal Building in San Francisco, venting anger over Israel's military offensive in the Gaza Strip

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/01/06/MNU4153SE1.DTL&hw=gaza+protest&sn=003&sc=413 (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/01/06/MNU4153SE1.DTL&hw=gaza+protest&sn=003&sc=413)


Sometime how we favor Israel so much we should just call us the United States of Israel. hey have been dictating our Foriegn Policy for decades now.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on January 07, 2009, 06:34:39 AM
Watch this video. Its quite disturbing. We live where the police can do anything and with no consequences to their action.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/06/josh-brolin-jeffrey-wrigh_n_155689.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on January 08, 2009, 07:48:32 AM
SAd news. Gays arrested for having sex.

The men were sentenced Wednesday for unnatural acts and criminal conspiracy, said Joel Nana, Africa research and policy coordinator with the International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission in Cape Town, South Africa.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/08/senegal-9-men-jailed-for-_n_156180.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Marge_Innavera on January 08, 2009, 09:45:56 AM
So do tactlessness and no manners at all...there's got to be a happy medium.
on this point we can tactfully agree to disagree, while the well mannered rick warren politely calls you a incestuous pedophile.

Jack, here's some interesting info on Warren's much-hyped "AIDS ministry":

(excerpt)

Rick Warren's Africa Problem
by Max Blumenthal

Team Obama likes to cite Warren’s work on AIDS in Africa to combat criticism about the controversial pastor. But how does burning condoms in the name of Jesus save lives?

Once hailed by Time magazine as “America’s Pastor,” California mega-church leader and bestselling author of The Purpose Driven Life Rick Warren now finds himself on the defensive. President-elect Barack Obama’s selection of Warren to deliver the inaugural prayer has generated intense scrutiny of the pastor’s beliefs on social issues, from his vocal support for Prop 8, a ballot initiative banning same-sex marriage in California, to his comparison of homosexuality to pedophilia, incest and bestiality. Many of Obama’s supporters have demanded that he withdraw the invitation. Warren’s defense against charges of intolerance ultimately depends upon his ace card: his heavily publicized crusade against AIDS in Africa. Obama senior advisor David Axelrod cited Warren’s work in Africa as one of “the things on which [Obama and Warren] agree” on the December 28 episode of Meet the Press. Warren may be opposed to gay rights and abortion, the thinking goes, but he tells evangelicals it is their God-given duty to battle one of the greatest pandemics in history. What could be wrong with that?

But since the Warren inauguration controversy erupted, the nature of work against AIDS in Africa has gone unexamined. Warren has not been particularly forthcoming to those who have attempted to look into it. His website contains scant information about the results of his program. However, an investigation into Warren’s involvement in Africa reveals a web of alliances with right-wing clergymen who have sidelined science-based approaches to combating AIDS in favor of abstinence-only education. More disturbingly, Warren’s allies have rolled back key elements of one of the continent’s most successful initiative, the so-called ABC program in Uganda. Stephen Lewis, the United Nations’ special envoy for HIV/AIDS in Africa, told the New York Times their activism is “resulting in great damage and undoubtedly will cause significant numbers of infections which should never have occurred.” Warren’s man in Uganda is a charismatic pastor named Martin Ssempa. The head of the Makerere Community Church, a rapidly growing congregation, Ssempe enjoys close ties to his country’s First Lady, Janet Museveni, and is a favorite of the Bush White House.

In the capitol of Kampala, Ssempa is known for his boisterous crusading. Ssempa’s stunts have included burning condoms in the name of Jesus and arranging the publication of names of homosexuals in cooperative local newspapers while lobbying for criminal penalties to imprison them. Dr. Helen Epstein, a public health consultant who authored the book, The Invisible Cure: Why We're Losing the Fight Against AIDS in Africa, met Ssempa in 2005. Epstein told me the preacher seemed gripped by paranoia, warning her of a secret witches coven that met under Lake Victoria. “Ssempa also spoke to me for a very long time about his fear of homosexual men and women,” Epstein said. “He seemed very personally terrified by their presence.” When Warren unveiled his global AIDS initiative at a 2005 conference at his Saddleback Church, he cast Ssempa as his indispensable sidekick, assigning him to lead a breakout session on abstinence-only education as well as a seminar on AIDS prevention. Later, Ssempa delivered a keynote address, a speech so stirring it “had the audience on the edge of its seats,” according to Warren’s public relations agency. A year later, Ssempa returned to Saddleback Church to lead another seminar on AIDS. By this time, his bond with the Warrens had grown almost familial. “You are my brother, Martin, and I love you,” Rick Warren’s wife, Kay, said to Ssempa from the stage. Her voice trembled with emotion as she spoke and tears ran down her cheeks.

more (and worse!) at http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-01-07/the-truth-about-rick-warren-in-africa
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Marge_Innavera on January 08, 2009, 09:47:45 AM
Historians battle Wal-Mart over key Civil War site
12:06 PST Locust Grove, Va.

Wal-Mart wants to build a Supercenter within a cannonshot of where Robert E. Lee and Ulysses S. Grant first fought, a proposal that has preservationists rallying to protect the key Civil War site.

A who's who of historians including filmmaker Ken Burns and Pulitzer Prize winner David McCullough sent a letter last month to H. Lee Scott, president and CEO of Wal-Mart Stores Inc., urging the company to build somewhere farther from the Wilderness Battlefield.

(snip)

If the Wilderness Battlefield is anywhere near as haunted as Gettysburg, that would be an interesting place to work a graveyard shift.   >:D
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on January 08, 2009, 11:00:43 AM
But since the Warren inauguration controversy erupted, the nature of work against AIDS in Africa has gone unexamined. Warren has not been particularly forthcoming to those who have attempted to look into it. His website contains scant information about the results of his program. However, an investigation into Warren’s involvement in Africa reveals a web of alliances with right-wing clergymen who have sidelined science-based approaches to combating AIDS in favor of abstinence-only education. More disturbingly, Warren’s allies have rolled back key elements of one of the continent’s most successful initiative, the so-called ABC program in Uganda. Stephen Lewis, the United Nations’ special envoy for HIV/AIDS in Africa, told the New York Times their activism is “resulting in great damage and undoubtedly will cause significant numbers of infections which should never have occurred.” Warren’s man in Uganda is a charismatic pastor named Martin Ssempa. The head of the Makerere Community Church, a rapidly growing congregation, Ssempe enjoys close ties to his country’s First Lady, Janet Museveni, and is a favorite of the Bush White House.

In the capitol of Kampala, Ssempa is known for his boisterous crusading. Ssempa’s stunts have included burning condoms in the name of Jesus and arranging the publication of names of homosexuals in cooperative local newspapers while lobbying for criminal penalties to imprison them. Dr. Helen Epstein, a public health consultant who authored the book, The Invisible Cure: Why We're Losing the Fight Against AIDS in Africa, met Ssempa in 2005. Epstein told me the preacher seemed gripped by paranoia, warning her of a secret witches coven that met under Lake Victoria. “Ssempa also spoke to me for a very long time about his fear of homosexual men and women,” Epstein said. “He seemed very personally terrified by their presence.”

Well the condom burning is more than enough to put the lie to Warren's AIDS programs.  This is the same sort of thing that the Bush administration has been supporting in Africa for the last 8 years - overturning Clinton era policies which allowed information on condoms and abortion to be given.

That Warren's supporter Ssempa thinks that we're witches is laughable - we're back to Sarah Palin's witch hunting 'reverend' again.  But the fact that he publishes the names of gay people in newspapers is homicidal.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on January 08, 2009, 11:31:43 AM
(excerpt)
Rick Warren's Africa Problem
by Max Blumenthal

Once hailed by Time magazine as “America’s Pastor,” California
mega-church leader and bestselling author of The Purpose Driven
Life
Rick Warren now finds himself on the defensive.

Ah...God works in mysterious ways...
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on January 08, 2009, 11:46:19 AM
Ah...God works in mysterious ways...

First he created the duckbilled platypus and then he created Rick Warren...go figure....
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on January 08, 2009, 03:02:56 PM
This is not good.

The U.N. suspended aid shipments in the Gaza Strip on Thursday and the Red Cross restricted its convoys after their trucks came under Israeli fire. The threat of a wider conflict arose when militants in Lebanon fired two rockets into northern Israel.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/08/un-israel-kills-driver-on_n_156168.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on January 08, 2009, 10:03:33 PM
as opposed to the wars that ARE good ???
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on January 09, 2009, 06:33:41 AM
Palin attacks the media say they are bias towards her becuase of her CLASS. She saids Caroline Kennedy is getting a free pass from the press too. I have this to say "Palin just shut your piehole and yes it is about class. Caroline has it and you don't."


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/08/palin-caroline-kennedy-ge_n_156335.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on January 09, 2009, 08:19:05 AM
Now Palin is criticizing Tina Fay and Katie Couric saying that they "Exploited" her. Get over yourself lady. Hasn't her 15 minutes of fame expired already?


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/09/palin-katie-couric-tina-f_n_156506.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on January 09, 2009, 12:41:32 PM
Worst year for jobs since '45
Annual loss biggest since end of World War II. Unemployment rate rises to 7.2%.
By David Goldman, CNNMoney.com staff writer
Last Updated: January 9, 2009: 12:11 PM ET

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The hemorrhaging of American jobs accelerated at a record pace at the end of 2008, bringing the year's total job losses to 2.6 million or the highest level in more than six decades.

A sobering U.S. Labor Department jobs report Friday showed the economy lost 524,000 jobs in December and 1.9 million in the year's final four months, after the credit crisis began in September.

The unemployment rate rose to 7.2% last month from 6.7% in November - its highest rate since January 1993.

The steep annual drop in jobs marked the highest yearly job-loss total since 1945, the year in which World War II ended.

continues:

http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/09/news/economy/jobs_december/?postversion=2009010912
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on January 09, 2009, 02:29:39 PM
The Log Cabin Republican group is going broke. GOOD!!!

The Log Cabin Republicans, hampered by lackluster 2008 fundraising, is facing financial difficulties and ended the year at least $100,000 in debt, according to Patrick Sammon, the organization's president, who spoke to the Blade Friday.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/09/leading-gay-republican-gr_n_156680.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on January 09, 2009, 04:40:58 PM
The Log Cabin Republicans, hampered by lackluster 2008 fundraising, is facing financial difficulties and ended the year at least $100,000 in debt, according to Patrick Sammon, the organization's president, who spoke to the Blade Friday.

Then need to have some fundraisers.  Maybe Jeff Gannon could help them?
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on January 09, 2009, 05:10:11 PM
The Log Cabin Republicans, hampered by lackluster 2008 fundraising, is facing financial difficulties and ended the year at least $100,000 in debt, according to Patrick Sammon, the organization's president, who spoke to the Blade Friday.

Then need to have some fundraisers.  Maybe Jeff Gannon could help them?

I'll buy that.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on January 09, 2009, 06:24:54 PM
not sure if you can buy it, but it rents for $200 an hour  >:D
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on January 12, 2009, 08:12:58 PM
Bush comments on Katrina sound sour in New Orleans
By BECKY BOHRER, Associated Press Writer Becky Bohrer, Associated Press Writer   – Mon Jan 12, 6:29 pm ET

NEW ORLEANS – President George W. Bush can defend the federal government's response to Hurricane Katrina. But to Gertrude LeBlanc, the view from her home in the city's Lower 9th Ward is all the evidence she needs to believe it was a failure.

A row of concrete foundations is all that's left where her neighbors' houses once stood.

"Bush didn't give a damn what we got," said the 73-year-old, who says she rebuilt her bright yellow house with the neat yard with help from a church group and the "little bit" in federal aid she got from the state-run program meant to help hurricane-affected homeowners, Road Home.

"To me, black folks weren't handled right, but we can't worry about it. We have to do the best we can."

When Bush leaves office next week, New Orleans will still show the scars of Hurricane Katrina, which slammed ashore on Aug. 29, 2005. LeBlanc's neighborhood is still largely uninhabited, with weeds tall around some decrepit houses and roads cracked and warped. In some neighborhoods, apartment buildings and businesses are empty. Some houses still bear the haunting markings left by search teams in the frantic aftermath of the storm.

Bush, in some of his last comments before leaving office, said Monday at a news conference that he stood behind the federal government's response to Katrina, even though he admitted once again that some things could have been done differently and acknowledged there's still more work to do. Those words stung for people still living in the aftermath of the storm, still waiting for neighbors to come home.

"More people need to have their own home there," Bush said. "But the systems are in place to continue the reconstruction in New Orleans. You know, people said, 'Well, the federal response was slow.' Don't tell me the federal response was slow when there was 30,000 people pulled off roofs right after the storm passed."

The comment drew an at-times exasperated response from residents like LeBlanc and government leaders, some of whom believe federal bureaucracy is still choking recovery efforts.

"Clearly there were mistakes made at every level of government, and I and other Louisiana leaders have accepted responsibility for our own," Sen. Mary Landrieu, D-La., said. "But no state is equipped to respond to a catastrophe of this magnitude, and for this reason, federal law specifically tasks the federal government to step up. It did not, and the president's failure to account for that responsibility more than three years later is terribly disappointing."

continues:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090112/ap_on_re_us/bush_newser_katrina_7
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on January 12, 2009, 08:55:09 PM
Tim Kaine on gay rights

The Washington Post reports that Virginia Gov. Tim Kaine is going to be appointed the next chair of the Democratic National Committee, replacing Howard Dean.

In 2005, when Kaine was running for governor, he was the only candidate to respond to questions from the Blade regarding gay rights. Though he has said he opposes gay marriage and civil unions, he doesn't believe the federal government should regulate marriage.

The Marshall-Newman Amendment, which defines marriage as solely between one man and one woman, passed in Virginia in 2006. Kaine voiced his opposition to the amendment prior to its passage and voted against it, and signed the bill once it passed, but out of a requirement as governor and not his own personal feelings, according to the National Stonewall Democrats. His overall record on gay rights can be described as "mixed." He did sign a medical rights bill earlier this year.

http://www.washblade.com/blog/index.cfm?blog_id=23284
Title: BREAKING NEWS...
Post by: jack on January 12, 2009, 10:28:03 PM
LUKE and NOAH actually consumate their year and a half soap opera relationship (off screen of course) bringing US daytime televison clearly into the 20th century.  ;D ;D

this might be news because the religous right is going to positively fulminate.

y'all might want to let P&G know they did good.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Flyboy on January 13, 2009, 11:39:29 AM
HUH? haha........I've seen a few You Tube videos of those two, I'm talking last year, and they are JUST NOW consumating the realtionship? That's a long courtship and a LOTTA foreplay.... ::) ::).....IMHO......... ;D ;D.....
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on January 14, 2009, 07:29:57 PM
Artist says he duped Czech government over bizarre EU sculpture showing Bulgaria as a toilet and leaving Britain out
By Kirsty Walker
Last updated at 9:18 AM on 14th January 2009

France on strike, Romania as a Dracula theme park and Britain entirely wiped off the face of Europe.

This is the image of European countries as portrayed in an official piece of artwork unveiled in Brussels today.

And the controversy surrounding it took another bizarre twist today when the Czech artist who created it admitted he had deceived the Czech government over its construction.

The massive work, which uses national stereotypes to depict EU nations, shows a map of individual countries attached to a blue tubular grid.

The art installation was commissioned by the Czech Republic, the current holders of the EU Presidency, and sits outside the European Council building in Brussels.

The work, entitled 'Entropa', was mean to be the joint work of artists representing each EU member country.

However in yet another bizarre twist today, the Czech artist who had the original idea -  David Cerny, famed for painting a Soviet tank pink - admitted today that he had duped the EU into thinking artists from each country had contributed.

The reality was, he admitted, that all of the sculptures had been done by himself and a friend.

Now Czech government is reviewing what to do with the work, due to be officially unveiled in Brussels tomorrow.

'An agreement of the office of the government with the artist clearly stated that this will be a common work of artists from 27 EU states,' Deputy Prime Minister Alexandr Vondra said.

'The full responsibility for violating this assignment and this promise lies with David Cerny,' he said in a statement.

While most of the images are highly unflattering, some countries have fared much worse than others.

France's map is emblazoned with the word GREVE! (French for strike) in red, a reference to its frequent industrial disputes, Romania is a Dracula theme park after its most famous fictional character and Sweden is a do-it-yourself IKEA furniture flatpack.

Controversially, Britain has been deliberately left off the map entirely in an apparent jibe at our euroscepticism.

Bulgaria is represented as the floor of a toilet, Lithuania features five men in army uniforms urinating on Russia and Greece is on fire - a reference to the violent riots that have blighted the country in recent weeks.

Austria is represented as a nuclear power station, Estonia is pictured with a hammer and sickle and Luxembourg is made of Nazi gold with a 'For Sale' sign sticking out of it.

The Netherlands is depicted as a sea with minarets rising from the waves, in an apparent reference to simmering religious tensions that culminated in the murder of Dutch film director and Islam critic Theo van Gogh by a Muslim militant in 2004.

Poland, one of Europe's most religious nations, has priests waving a rainbow flag - a symbol of pride for gay communities.

continues:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1114284/Artist-says-duped-Czech-government-bizarre-EU-sculpture-showing-Bulgaria-toilet-leaving-Britain-out.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on January 14, 2009, 10:27:57 PM
do we have a smiley for clapping hands.. ROFLMAO  :D :D
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on January 15, 2009, 10:55:29 AM
New info on Jack the Ripper. Now they are saying Jack was perhaps a woman. I don't know but this is still a fascinating story.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/15/was-jack-the-ripper-a-wom_n_158143.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on January 19, 2009, 11:13:07 AM
Bush Shoe Thrower is seeking asylum in Switzerland.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/19/iraqi-shoe-thrower-to-see_n_159028.html
Title: BIG GAY POLITICAL SCANDAL ...breaking news
Post by: jack on January 20, 2009, 04:19:20 AM
brace yourselves ladies and gentlemen we have fresh fuel for the homophobes and right wingers coming to us courtesy of portland oregon.  SAM ADAMS, popular newly minted mayor of portland just admitted to a sexual relationship with a teen aged intern back in 2005, which he denied vigorously, and apparently convinced the 17/18 year old lad to lie as well.

this might be a minor scandal except for two things.  first he lied his face off at the time the original allegations were made, impugning another gay man, also a potential mayoral candidate, and second because oregon has a rather archaic age of consent... 18 years of age.

it remains to be seen if he will be charged with a felony as a legal consequence, and he has unquestionably morally erred by taking advantage of a mentoring relationship with a young may 25 years his junior.

follow up articles abound, here are search results...

 http://news.google.com/nwshp?hl=en&tab=wn&ie=UTF-8&ncl=1294985842

and all the gay blogs will be on it by tomorrow, some are already.

hold onto your hats, the shit is going to get really deep.   
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on January 20, 2009, 09:07:23 AM
I read the story On Huffington Post. It seems that the teenager just turned 18 when the affair took place. So, if that is the case, so whats the big deal. Him lying about it?
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on January 20, 2009, 09:21:43 AM
No, the big deal is not the lying, it's the fact that they are both male.

Don't you just love how most of those headlines refer to the intern as a 'teenager' ?

If that same 'teenager' had commited some crime like robbery or assault, I know they'd be calling him a 'man'. When a 17 year old commits a crime, everyone pushes to have that kid tried as an adult.

It reminds me of a story from several years ago where an 18 year old gay "man" was accused of molesting a 25 year old "student"

The same people who are screaming bloody murder over this probably wouldn't have any problem sending an 18 year old to Iraq to kill someone.

I had sex with a man in his 60's when I was 17 and I never felt used. It was my decision, and really nobody else's business.

Now if Sam Adams had been a female school teacher, I'll bet we'd be reading a wedding announcement instead of this.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on January 20, 2009, 12:24:20 PM
re posting...

sorry john, as someone whose life experience has put him in the position to mentor,  teach and counsel impressionable youth, gay and straight, i have been taught, and had reinforced by professional and personal codes, that to have a sexual relationship with someone in my tutelage was reprehensible, and an abuse of station.

for a teach to sleep with a student, a psychiatrist to sleep with a patient, a counselor to sleep with a client, or a priest to sleep with a parishioner is ground for dismissal.

on top of that he didn't just lie about the relationship, he defamed another competitor for office to that man's lasting detriment.  these are not signs of great character.

as for the youth status, there is quite simply oregon law to take into consideration, and the age of consent is oregon is 18.  while adams and breedlove state the relationship was consummated after his birthday, they had had some contact well before that, ostensibly, by his own testimony, to aid him in dealing with coming out.  hard to swallow, if you'll pardon a pun.  if there is corroboration that he did indeed stray in advance, he is still within the statute of limitation.  is 18 a reasonable legal age?  i don't think so... however, adams was a man in politics with aspirations, and a gay man to boot, dating a 17 year old is clintonian hubris or idiocy.

not my choice as a sterling example of a gay leader.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on January 22, 2009, 07:34:48 AM
Another story of police brutality. Come on Fox News he is one of yours. He was arrested for nonviolent arrest. So, I look like that with a nonviolent what would I look like if I had a violent arrest. IS Our country heading to a police state? No one questions this? 


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/21/russell-rhodes-tampa-fox_n_159663.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on January 22, 2009, 10:57:43 PM
(http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h86/BrokenOkie/TDS/heathAdNew500.jpg)


Here's a little background on a donation we're making with funds we raised from the sale of the Forum's book.

Our book Beyond Brokeback sold well beyond expectations: roughly 1,300 copies. We grossed about $6,800, some of which we plowed back into the marketing the book, some for running the forum the past 18 months (expanding the server size and memory a few times, to improve response time), and we have put some money aside to keep us running for the next year. That leaves us with about $3,600, which we are going to donate to a worthy charity. We also raised money for a tribute ad to Heath in Variety last year, and about $1,400 more came in than the ad cost. We said we would donate the rest to charity.

We asked members for their input on the book funds, and overwhelming consensus was toward helping struggling gay youth in some way. Several organizations were cited repeatedly, including GLSEN, GLAAD, PFLAG and The Point Foundation's scholarship funds for gay youth. We think any of those would be great beneficiaries--they all do great work for the gay community and gay/straight allies, and are closely aligned with the ideas of Brokeback. Of those, the two which most closely fit the central idea of helping struggling gay youth were GLSEN (http://www.glsen.org/) and The Point Foundation's scholarship fund (http://www.pointfoundation.org/). (Click either for their websites, to learn more.)

So, we will take money available from our book proceeds and split it 50/50 between the two groups, and cite the donations in honor of Heath. We would like to hear from the membership about how to use the $1,400 remaining from the Heath ad. We can increase the GLSEN and Point donations, or do something more specifically related to Heath. Let's hear your thoughts.



http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=32190.0 (http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=32190.0)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on January 23, 2009, 06:28:23 AM

paterson picks blue dog democrat to replace hillary clinton in NY senate seat.


this is not good news if you are liberal or gay.  as a former constituent i can attest that the reason she won in the first place was that she was running against some even more vile republicans from the old political machine.  i was hopig to find a less hysterical news reference than the NY POST, but most of the others completely glossed over the the upset this is causing.  one of her primary support organizations is the NRA.  that should tell you something, and she is the daughter of a lobbyist and the wife of a financial consultant.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/01232009/news/politics/dave_picks_gillibrand_as_liberal_dems_ho_151502.htm

Quote
Sources said "at least five" members of the state's Democratic congressional delegation called Paterson to protest the possibility of Gillibrand's selection. One, Rep. Carolyn McCarthy of Nassau County, even threatened a primary challenge. Gillibrand faces a special election in 2010.

Democratic activists predicted that Cuomo, son of former Gov. Mario Cuomo, would also "seriously consider" challenging Paterson in a primary next year
***********************************
***********************************
Liberal Democrats have been wary of her because she ran for re-election with the backing of the National Rifle Association, opposed the federal TARP program to rescue banks, and has been less than enthusiastic about gay marriage.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: beruthiel on January 23, 2009, 09:08:03 AM

paterson picks blue dog democrat to replace hillary clinton in NY senate seat.


this is not good news if you are liberal or gay.  as a former constituent i can attest that the reason she won in the first place was that she was running against some even more vile republicans from the old political machine.  i was hopig to find a less hysterical news reference than the NY POST, but most of the others completely glossed over the the upset this is causing.  one of her primary support organizations is the NRA.  that should tell you something, and she is the daughter of a lobbyist and the wife of a financial consultant.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/01232009/news/politics/dave_picks_gillibrand_as_liberal_dems_ho_151502.htm


I heard about this this morning on Democracy Now!. This is very bad news. Paterson has always been known as a liberal, but he has apparently been getting more conservative and this is the result.  >:(
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on January 23, 2009, 09:52:19 AM
more on gillibrand..

this should prove interesting.  apparently she either figured it out, or has been spoken to, because she has apparently made the rounds of gay rights organizations reassuring them of her "solidarity".

  http://www.towleroad.com/2009/01/rep-kirstin-gil.html

Quote
the Empire State Pride Agenda, released a statement from its Executive Director Alan Van Capelle:

"After talking to Kirsten Gillibrand, I am very happy to say that New York is poised to have its first U.S. Senator who supports marriage equality for same-sex couples. She also supports the full repeal of the federal DOMA (Defense of Marriage Act) law, repeal of Don’t Ask Don’t Tell (DADT) and passage of legislation outlawing discrimination against transgender people. While we had a productive discussion about a whole range of LGBT concerns, I was particularly happy to hear where she stands on these issues."

According to HRC, that's not how she's voted in the past though. As noted earlier, via PolitickerNY:

"According to the Human Rights Campaign, she voted against the repealing of 'Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell' legislation, opposed legislation that would grant equal tax treatment for employer-provided health coverage for domestic partners, opposed legislation to grant same-sex partners of U.S. citizens and permanent residents the same immigration benefits of married couples and opposed legislation to permit state Medicaid programs to cover low-income, HIV-positive Americans before they develop AIDS. That said, Gillibrand is not an ideologue. The positions she took were arguably necessary as a means of getting elected in a conservative-voting district. And there is a notion among political observers that if she represented the entire state, those positions would soften to better reflect New York’s more liberal complexion."

also... update from the hrc blog ...

Quote
***UPDATE - 11:10 AM*** There has been some discussion about Kirsten Gillibrand's stance on Don’t Ask Don’t Tell and additional LGBT issues.  In particular, we’d like to clarify references to the Human Rights Campaign Scorecard for the 110th Congress. 

Although Kirsten Gillibrand did not co-sponsor legislation to repeal DADT, her decision does not mean that Gillibrand supports the policy or would oppose  the repeal.  In fact, in recent conversations with Kirsten Gillibrand’s office the Human Rights Campaign has confirmed Gillibrand is in favor of repealing Don’t Ask Don’t Tell and supports full marriage equality for gay and lesbian couples. 

Additionally, HRC confirmed with Gillibrand’s staff additional points regarding her LGBT record:

Supports marriage equality
Cosponsored and voted in favor of the Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention Act
Cosponsored inclusive Employment Non-Discrimination Act (ENDA) and supports enactment of inclusive bill
Voted in favor of ENDA
Supports repeal of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell
Supports repeal of the Defense of Marriage Act
Supports equal tax treatment of employer provided domestic partnership benefits
Voted against allowing discrimination in hiring for the Head Start program
Voted in favor of allowing Washington, DC to fund needle exchange programs with local funds
Supports the Early Treatment of HIV/AIDS Act (ETHA) to allow states to provide Medicaid coverage for HIV-positive persons
Voted against procedural attempts to derail ENDA and hate crimes
Endorsed by HRC PAC in 2008


http://www.hrcbackstory.org/2009/01/kirsten-gillibrand-gov-patersons-pick-to-replace-hillary-clinton-supports-marriage-equality.html

the proof will be in the pudding.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on January 23, 2009, 06:54:03 PM
^^^ Or she's worried that if she doesn't do this she will face a liberal challenge in 2010 (when she's up for re-election).  As you say, the proof will be in the pudding.

In other news (I'm starting to feel like a cheerleader.... ::)) - this isn't directly as a result of the election - but you can't help but think that someone at the FDA is looking for job security  ;):

Feds Approve Stem Cell Tests on Patients With Spinal Cord Injuries
By Renay San Miguel
TechNewsWorld
01/23/09 1:33 PM PT

The Food and Drug Administration has given the go-ahead to biotech company Geron to begin testing the effect of embryonic stem cells on patients with severe spinal cord injuries. The procedure involves injecting the cells into the patients and monitoring their progress.

Candidate Barack Obama promised to lift Bush Administration restrictions on embryonic stem cell research. Two days after he became President Obama, the government gave its approval for the first-ever human trials using therapies derived from this controversial area of science.

Geron, a Menlo Park, Calif.-based biotechnology firm, was given the go-ahead by the Food and Drug Administration More about Food and Drug Administration Thursday. While officials at both the company and the agency are calling the timing of the announcement coincidental, the news reignites the debate between those who see the promise of miracle-like cures in human stem cells and opponents who say the harvesting of cells from embryos is akin to murder.

Geron will choose 10 patients who have suffered spinal cord injuries resulting in paralysis. The patients will be given the treatments between 7 to 14 days after being injured, and will be studied for up to a year. If the patients remain safe, then Geron will ask for permission to expand the study and increase the dosage.

"This marks the beginning of what is potentially a new chapter in medical therapeutics, one that reaches beyond pills to a new level of healing: the restoration of organ and tissue function achieved by the injection of healthy replacement cells," Geron president and CEO Dr. Thomas Okarma said.

A Shift in Research Priorities

"It's a bold step, and the hard part of this is going to be managing expectations," Chuck Murry, Ph.D., codirector of the University of Washington's Institute for Stem Cell and Regenerative Medicine, told TechNewsWorld. "People have very high hopes for stem cells to do something remarkable. We have to keep in mind -- the wonder with working with embryonic stem cells is that they can turn into anything, and the hardest thing with working with stem cells is that they can turn into anything."

continues:

http://www.technewsworld.com/rsstory/65947.html

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on January 23, 2009, 08:16:11 PM
Perhaps we can get Bishop Thomas Muthee down there to get rid of the witches....

Nigerian police hold 'magic' goat over attempted car theft
Last Updated: 6:50PM GMT 23 Jan 2009

The black and white animal was turned in to police by a vigilante group, which claimed it was an armed car thief who had used black magic to transform himself into a goat to escape arrest after trying to steal a Mazda 323.

"The group of vigilante men came to report that while they were on patrol they saw some hoodlums attempting to rob a car," Tunde Mohammed, a spokesman for Kwara state police, told Reuters.

"They pursued them. However, one of them escaped while the other turned into a goat," he said. While Mr Mohammed said he could not confirm whether a man had, in fact, turned into a goat, he did admit that the animal was in police custody. A photo of the goat, resting on its knees next to a pile of straw, was published in Nigeria's Vanguard newspaper.

Reports citing a different police spokesman said the animal was being held at the station until its owner came to claim it.

Belief in witchcraft is widespread in parts of Nigeria. Many communities in Africa's most populous nation rely on vigilante groups to patrol neighbourhoods that are not served by police at night.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/nigeria/4325377/Nigerian-police-hold-magic-goat-over-attempted-car-theft.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: graylockV on January 24, 2009, 10:31:51 AM
It's not just Jews who are offended by this.  This is outrageous and is the best indication yet of Benedict's desire to roll back the 20th Century.  Next he'll be making Torquemada a saint.

Sorry to those non-Catholics for posting this, but I just wanted to bring all of us survivors of Catholicism up to date on what our current fascist Pope is up to.  And believe me, the "Lefebvrian movement" ,based in France, is among the most far right.  These people really are warmed-over Nazis.  Exhibit A: "Bishop" Williamson (see article.)

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1873855,00.html?xid=rss-topstories-cnnpartner

That this Pope can be so morally indifferent to what these people are - and at the same time oppose basic human rights for gay people - shows how evil wears a white skull cap.  I really hope that this guy is the last pope, as some have prophesied.

By Forgiving Traditionalists, the Pope Offends Jews
By Jeff Israely Saturday, Jan. 24, 2009

Pope Benedict XVI has reinstated four bishops from an archconservative breakaway wing of the Roman Catholic Church, a decision that is bound to stir controversy within his own flock. But Saturday's announcement that the Vatican will undo the 20-year schism between the Vatican and the so-called Lefebvrian movement is all the more sensitive because it comes only days after the broadcast of an interview in which British-born Bishop Richard Williamson, one of those Benedict is bringing back into the fold, denies that the Nazi Holocaust ever happened.

"I believe there were no gas chambers," Williamson said
. The bishop, who has been accused of anti-Semitism in the past, declared that the historical evidence was "hugely against" the accepted belief that close to 6 million Jews were systematically exterminated as part of Adolf Hitler's Final Solution. Williamson claims that no more than 300,000 Jews died during World War II.

The Vatican made no mention of those remarks in the communiqué that announced the papal decree that revokes the 1988 excommunication of Williamson and his three fellow bishops. Papal spokesman Father Federico Lombardi said the decree in no way means the Pope, a German, shares Williamson's views on the Holocaust.

Earlier this week, Jewish leaders warned that relations between the Holy See and Judaism would deteriorate if the controversial prelates were brought back into mainstream Catholicism.

The four bishops belong to a movement founded by late French traditionalist Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre. Followers oppose dialogue with other religions and say Jews should convert. Rome's chief rabbi said Williamson's rehabilitation in particular would open "a deep wound" in Jewish-Vatican relations, which had already been strained by recent controversy over the effort to make Pope Pius XII a saint despite some historians' contention that he did little to save Jews during the Holocaust. The French Jewish organization CRIF called Williamson "a despicable liar whose only goal is to revive the centuries-old hatred against Jews."

Officially dated Jan. 21 (by coincidence the same day the interview aired), the decree states that the Pope "was inspired in this decision by the wish that complete reconciliation and full communion is reached as soon as possible." A senior Vatican official told TIME that the Pope is expected to make the Society of St. Pius X (SSPX), the name Lefebvre followers call their movement, into a personal prelature of the papacy, the same special status that conservative lay group Opus Dei was granted by John Paul II.

Benedict's decision marks a watershed. Following on the Pope's 2007 decision to widen use of the old Latin rite mass, the rapprochement with the traditionalist faction appears to be a purely papal initiative. Beyond one or two retired Cardinals, few had been urging an end to the schism. The Society of St. Pius X itself had not budged from its hard line.

Some will hail Benedict as a bold defender of the rights of traditionalist Catholics and a man of conviction unbent by the winds of controversy; but others, both inside and outside the Church, will take his embrace of the Lefebvre followers as the final proof that Benedict, deep down, is determined to make the Church far more traditional than it is today.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on January 24, 2009, 10:39:38 AM
^^^  Oh my God (no pun intended), it's worse than I thought.

I've always considered Pope Rat to be right wing and anti-gay - his writings from the 80s bear witness to that.  But I didn't think he wanted to roll back the church to before the reforms of Pope John XXIII - which is what this appears to do.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: graylockV on January 24, 2009, 10:54:52 AM
I've heard a lot of right-wing Catholics say that they want a much smaller church.  They want to drive all the "liberal" and "modernist" elements out of the Church.  And shit like this is one way of doing that. 

Of course there are a lot of "pay, pray, and obey" Catholics who will accept anything any Pope says or does.  But there are a lot of decent people who have tried to hang on to their religion, despite John Paul II and Ratzinger.

At some point you have to ask yourself - how far is too far.  I reached that point a long time ago.  It will be interesting to see how the hierarchy in this country will defend and otherwise try to diminish the significance of this.

We do know this:  that Sister Aloysius (from the play/movie Doubt) - is thrilled to death!
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on January 24, 2009, 11:35:58 AM
At some point you have to ask yourself - how far is too far.  I reached that point a long time ago.

Me too.  Age 16.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on January 24, 2009, 01:57:50 PM
^^^ Or she's worried that if she doesn't do this she will face a liberal challenge in 2010 (when she's up for re-election).  As you say, the proof will be in the pudding.

In other news (I'm starting to feel like a cheerleader.... ::)) - this isn't directly as a result of the election - but you can't help but think that someone at the FDA is looking for job security  ;):

Feds Approve Stem Cell Tests on Patients With Spinal Cord Injuries
gillibrand is guaranteed a challenge if she strays even a bot off the reservation.  i'll put my trust in van capelle, he is DEFINITELY not the HRC.

regarding the stem cell research announcement,  i am pretty sure it is not so much a matter of wanting to impress obama is it has been fear of the bush minions who wielded unfettered power over the scientists.  it should prove very interesting finding out just how much our science based agencies have been mutilated... and that includes the fda, epa and even the cdc.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: garyd on January 24, 2009, 03:48:29 PM
Just returned from event welcoming home Captain "Sully".
A beautiful event for an extraordinary, yet so very ordinary,and gracious man.

Amazing how "simple" acts of heroism always seem to stem from
a commitment to excellence. 
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on January 25, 2009, 04:58:24 PM
Bill Moyers just mentioned a statistic that I was unaware of in his show.  It shows again how much work needs to be done in the U.S.:

1 in 100 U.S. Adults Behind Bars, New Study Says
By ADAM LIPTAK
Published: February 28, 2008

For the first time in the nation’s history, more than one in 100 American adults is behind bars, according to a new report.

Nationwide, the prison population grew by 25,000 last year, bringing it to almost 1.6 million. Another 723,000 people are in local jails. The number of American adults is about 230 million, meaning that one in every 99.1 adults is behind bars.

Incarceration rates are even higher for some groups. One in 36 Hispanic adults is behind bars, based on Justice Department figures for 2006. One in 15 black adults is, too, as is one in nine black men between the ages of 20 and 34.

The report, from the Pew Center on the States, also found that only one in 355 white women between the ages of 35 and 39 are behind bars but that one in 100 black women are.

The report’s methodology differed from that used by the Justice Department, which calculates the incarceration rate by using the total population rather than the adult population as the denominator. Using the department’s methodology, about one in 130 Americans is behind bars.

Either way, said Susan Urahn, the center’s managing director, “we aren’t really getting the return in public safety from this level of incarceration.”

But Paul Cassell, a law professor at the University of Utah and a former federal judge, said the Pew report considered only half of the cost-benefit equation and overlooked the “very tangible benefits — lower crime rates.”

In the past 20 years, according the Federal Bureau of Investigation, violent crime rates fell by 25 percent, to 464 for every 100,000 people in 2007 from 612.5 in 1987.

“While we certainly want to be smart about who we put into prisons,” Professor Cassell said, “it would be a mistake to think that we can release any significant number of prisoners without increasing crime rates. One out of every 100 adults is behind bars because one out of every 100 adults has committed a serious criminal offense.”

continues:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/28/us/28cnd-prison.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on January 26, 2009, 12:54:27 PM
So...do you think Dr. Phil was busy?  Or perhaps he didn't do this because he was afraid Sen. Robert Byrd would have a heart attack when he found car keys under his seat?  Would she take Gail or Steadman to Washington D.C.?  Curious minds want to know....

Senator Oprah? Illinois governor says he considered it
Mon Jan 26, 9:45 am ET

CHICAGO (AFP) – The Illinois governor accused of trying to auction off a US Senate seat for personal gain said in an interview Monday he considered naming television talk show star Oprah Winfrey to the job.

Rod Blagojevich, indicted by federal prosecutors on corruption charges, told ABC's "Good Morning America" that he thought about appointing the influential, mega-rich talk show queen to fill the seat formerly occupied by President Barack Obama.

"That is true," Blagojevich said when asked if he had mulled naming Winfrey.

The governor said he never contacted her and that "the idea came to me from a friend and then among the considerations we discussed whether or not is it made any sense."

"She seemed to be someone who had helped Barack Obama in a significant way become president. She was obviously someone with a much broader bully pulpit than other senators," he said.

But he said there were arguments against choosing the entertainment titan.

"She probably wouldn't take it and then if you offered (it) to her how would you do it in a way it wasn't a gimmick to embarrass her."

Blagojevich took to the airwaves to try to defend himself as Illinois lawmakers planned to launch impeachment proceedings on Monday that could force him from office within days.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090126/en_afp/uspoliticscrimeentertainmentpeopleoprah_20090126171846
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on January 26, 2009, 02:29:51 PM
What's more important nowadays?

Things that don't make sense if you are having financial trouble:

Warners spent upwards of $30 million in promoting The Dark Knight
for a Best Picture and other high profile oscar nominations and it didn't
get them any extra big noms for their effort.

Then they laid off 800 Warner employees last week. -- Let's see,
thirty million divided by 800 employees works out to $37,500.

Worth it?
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on January 26, 2009, 02:42:15 PM
^^^  See, if we had a Senator Oprah that wouldn't be happening....
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on January 26, 2009, 06:45:15 PM
Does this mean he prayed the pants off him?  :D

Haggard: 'Inappropriate' relationship not physical

DENVER – Fallen evangelical pastor Ted Haggard says he had an "inappropriate relationship" with a young male church volunteer, but it did not involve physical contact.

Haggard's successor at Colorado Springs' New Life Church, Brady Boyd, has said evidence pointed to an "inappropriate, consensual sexual relationship" between Haggard and the man, who was in his early 20s.

Haggard said in a new statement Monday that he met with the young man two years ago, along with his wife and a representative of New Life Church. At that time, he asked the man's forgiveness for "our inappropriate relationship."

His statement says, "Although there was no physical contact, I have regretted my irresponsibile (sic) behavior."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090127/ap_on_re_us/haggard_new_allegations;_ylt=As653w1OnNDXkV65OxZCjj4DW7oF
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: killersmom on January 26, 2009, 06:52:01 PM
^^^^^ LOL!!!! Michael!
I keep getting this visual............::) :P
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on January 26, 2009, 07:26:21 PM
Ewww on the visuals...

Perhaps they were just singing hymns together....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adeste_Fidelis
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: fritzkep on January 26, 2009, 07:30:56 PM
Singing hims?

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on January 26, 2009, 07:34:52 PM
Singing dithyrambs


Quote
it is now clear from its Sumerian source that “dithyramb” fits philologically into the pattern of other cultic musical terms, meaning literally, “chant for erection of the penis”. Incidentally this serves to confirm the opinion of the second-century writer Athenaeus that the god and this epithet Dithurambos were connected with the phallic deity Priapus, from whose name comes our word “priapism” or “erection of the penis

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/sacredmushroom_cross/sacredmushroom_cross10.htm (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/sacredmushroom_cross/sacredmushroom_cross10.htm)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on January 26, 2009, 07:38:10 PM
Singing hims?

Somehow I knew you'd respond if I put the latin name for 'Oh Come All Ye Faithful' in the thread.... :D
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: fritzkep on January 26, 2009, 07:49:18 PM
Yep!

And John, I'll have to explore that site Biblioteca Pléyades more. Thanks!

Of course, first I have to make a foil hat....

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on January 27, 2009, 08:19:56 AM
this should prove interesting... daley has appointed a gay man to be head chicago city schools.  i wonder if both have the stones to ride out the flap that is likely to follow.

http://www.towleroad.com/2009/01/mayor-daley-app.html

(http://www.ctatattler.com/images/2007/05/02/huberman.jpg)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on January 27, 2009, 10:00:36 AM
this should prove interesting... daley has appointed a gay man to be head chicago city schools.  i wonder if both have the stones to ride out the flap that is likely to follow.

I've already answered this in one of the other threads you posted it in - here:

http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=20110.msg1491955#msg1491955

He's a former cop and is well thought of as an administrator - he did a good job on the CTA.  His sexuality is not going to be as much of an issue as his lack of experience as an educator will be.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on January 27, 2009, 12:06:40 PM
i dunno... tied to the lack of school administation experience is the issue of a gay man... with no children, looking out for the welfare of children.  certainly no issue for me, but i will be very surpried if it is smooth sailing.  he seems an extraordinarily talented individual though.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on January 27, 2009, 12:45:07 PM
i dunno... tied to the lack of school administation experience is the issue of a gay man... with no children, looking out for the welfare of children.  certainly no issue for me, but i will be very surpried if it is smooth sailing.  he seems an extraordinarily talented individual though.

I asked my friend back in Chicago about him - he's credited with turning around CTA - so he's got the rep of being a 'can do' kind of guy.  He was also a cop for nearly a decade, so he's got the backing of the police too.  Actually, I think this guy is kind of being brought in to do the kind of job on the Chicago schools that Michelle Rhee did on the Washington D.C. schools.

But we'll see.  Hopefully it'll not be an issue.

Oh...and btw, my friend says he's rather hot, too.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on January 27, 2009, 04:05:52 PM
Are 'illicit text messages' a mortal or a venial sin?

Wife says Haggard told her of struggles years ago
  By The Associated Press The Associated Press   – 7 mins ago

CHICAGO – Former evangelical pastor Ted Haggard's wife says she knew about his struggles with same-sex attraction for years and felt he was "winning the battle" before a scandal involving a male prostitute triggered his downfall in late 2006.

Gayle Haggard makes the remarks in an appearance with her husband on "The Oprah Winfrey Show" to air Wednesday. She said she was shocked when Haggard first told her the truth about the allegations against him.

"The first words out of my mouth were, 'Who are you?'" she said, according to a publicity release issued Tuesday by Harpo Productions.

However, Gayle Haggard also said her husband told her early in their 30-year marriage that he "struggled with some thoughts."

"I felt it was the thing that could destroy Ted if he gave in to it," she said. "So I prayed for him and I felt as though he was winning the battle."

Haggard, 52, resigned as president of the National Association of Evangelicals and New Life Church in Colorado Springs, Colo., after the male prostitute went public. Haggard confessed to "sexual immorality."

The scandal widened in recent days with disclosures that Haggard also admitted to an "inappropriate" relationship with a church volunteer, Grant Haas, who was 22 at the time.

Haas told KRDO in Colorado Springs that Haggard performed a sex act in front of him and sent him illicit text messages. He informed New Life Church shortly after the scandal broke, and the two parties reached a settlement in 2007 that included a confidentiality agreement. Haas went public as Haggard is heavily promoting an HBO documentary about his time in exile.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090127/ap_on_re_us/rel_haggard_s_wife;_ylt=Am3lfCYKibwhqUQeZKRpv6cDW7oF
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on January 27, 2009, 04:49:53 PM

But we'll see.  Hopefully it'll not be an issue.

Oh...and btw, my friend says he's rather hot, too.
i, of course, googled him instantly, and not for his cv, which you took care of, because i can spot a hottie blindfolded.  he is totally hot (and fit for days, he's a mountain biker as well as other insane sports).

he was also daley's chief of staff for while too.

and i actually agree with daley about letting the educators educate, and advise administrators, but that they haven't often proved out as big time managers.

ETA:  if they ever do a gay BACHELOR tv show.  he DEFINITELY should be the prize.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on January 27, 2009, 04:55:10 PM
Are 'illicit text messages' a mortal or a venial sin?


Quote
We are all aware of the three basic kinds of impure speech: profanity, the worst, using God’s infinitely perfect and pure name casually in conversation, with simply the name of God or Jesus Christ to accent their speech or using all kinds of variations of God’s most Holy Names or His Titles with gross irreverences; obscenity, the most offensive, using terminology referring to the sacred parts of the body or the marital act to again accent a point made in conversation; and vulgarities, the rudest, using ‘barnyard’ language of the four letter variety to make a point about what one is expressing.
 
All of these abominations of speech offend decency’s virtue and Almighty God in serious or venial sins. Commonly, vulgarities are venial sins or even imperfections, if not too course, but profanities and obscenities are often serious sins, especially if they cause scandal to the young and innocent or blaspheme the name of God or holy persons or objects. If done in anger, using profanities, especially, can be serious sins, and also obscenities.


Quote
Now scandal can be direct or indirect. One commits scandal indirectly if one fails to prevent evil when in a position of responsible authority and duty and one should and could do so. In other words, one also commits scandal indirectly when, in spite of one’s desire to prevent it, one is deterred by fear of gossip or what others may think. As Father John Hardon, S.J. often said: "What sins we will commit for human respect."


http://www.theorthodoxromancatholic.com/index_files/category-chastity-0026-purity.html (http://www.theorthodoxromancatholic.com/index_files/category-chastity-0026-purity.html)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on January 27, 2009, 04:57:30 PM
ETA:  if they ever do a gay BACHELOR tv show.  he DEFINITELY should be the prize.

He's taken.  Had the boyfriend in tow with him when my friend felt his bicep at Big Chicks in Chicago....
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on January 27, 2009, 05:00:46 PM
Haas told KRDO in Colorado Springs that Haggard performed a sex act in front of him...

My boss did the same thing to me when I was 23 in them earlier days.

I just quit the job.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: fritzkep on January 27, 2009, 05:00:50 PM
Great name for a Jesuit, John.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on January 27, 2009, 05:02:27 PM
Great name for a Jesuit, John.

or a porn star.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on January 27, 2009, 05:33:02 PM
My boss did the same thing to me when I was 23 in them earlier days.

I just quit the job.

Did you at least give him a performance review first?
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on January 27, 2009, 05:37:34 PM
My boss did the same thing to me when I was 23 in them earlier days.

I just quit the job.

Did you at least give him a performance review first?

No I didn't think of it at the time.

But it wasn't a bad performance at all, and the fact that it was done in public made it even more impressive.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on January 27, 2009, 05:59:44 PM
I was unaware that evangelicals did this kind of witnessing....no wonder they keep singing 'can I get a witness....'

Grant Haas: Ted Haggard Masturbation Witness Speaks
ERIC GORSKI | January 27, 2009 02:06 AM EST | AP

COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. — A young man who formerly attended New Life Church says that then-pastor Ted Haggard performed a sex act in front of him in a hotel room in 2006 and sent him explicit text messages.

His hidden relationship with Haggard, the man said, was followed by a period of isolation, struggles with drinking, drugs and suicide attempts.

Those latest allegations against Haggard, once an influential national evangelical leader, were reported Monday night by KRDO-TV in Colorado Springs, which interviewed the man, now 25.

In a statement earlier Monday, Haggard apologized for his "inappropriate relationship" with the former church volunteer, but said it did not involve physical contact.

The newly disclosed relationship added a chapter to Haggard's dramatic fall, which began in November 2006 when a Denver male prostitute alleged a cash-for-sex relationship with Haggard.

Haggard confessed to undisclosed "sexual immorality" and resigned as president of the National Association of Evangelicals and pastor of New Life Church.

The latest revelations involve Grant Haas, who told the TV station that he met Haggard in 2005 when he was 22. He said he told Haggard that he had been kicked out of a Moody Bible Institute in Chicago for his "struggles with homosexuality."

"It seemed like at that moment his eyes lit up and his whole attitude towards me changed," he told KRDO. Reached by text message Monday, Haas agreed to be identified by The Associated Press. Haggard's statement also identified him.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/27/grant-haas-ted-haggard-ma_n_161261.html

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on January 27, 2009, 06:03:04 PM
Grant Haas, Haggard's Accuser, Says Pastor Encouraged Sex, Meth Use

Last night, Colorado's KRDO aired their interview with Grant Haas, the New Life church volunteer who has come forward with new claims against Ted Haggard. KRDO spoke with Grant and played phone messages in which Haggard thanks the volunteer for erasing damning text messages that might have hurt the pastor.

Haas claims Haggard's "eyes lit up" when he first learned the volunteer had been in a treatment program, struggling with his homosexuality: "His whole attitude toward me changed."

Haas also talks about a 2006 trip to Cripple Creek, Colorado he took with Haggard: "He asked me if we were going to be godly or bad that night? Were we going to just hang out and be friends or was I going to go buy him porn and masturbate with him and take methamphetamines with him and show me all these things he likes to do with him when he travels."

Haggard claims their relationship did not involve physical contact. And of course we know Haggard has a record of telling the "truth" before the real truth comes out.

Says Haas: "They don't think Ted Haggard is a harm to the community, and I really think that they're wrong. I think that they're dead wrong"

Yesterday, Mike Jones, the escort at the center of the original Haggard scandal, posted a video saying he knew there were others and expressing anger at organizations within the gay community that didn't take him seriously enough to return his phone calls.

continues:

http://www.towleroad.com/2009/01/ted-haggards-ne.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on January 28, 2009, 11:34:50 AM
Iceland to appoint gay woman minister to PM post
By DAVID STRINGER, Associated Press Writer David Stringer, Associated Press Writer   – 14 mins ago

REYKJAVIK, Iceland – Iceland's next leader will be an openly gay former flight attendant who parlayed her experience as a union organizer into a decades-long political career.

Both parties forming Iceland's new coalition government support the appointment of Johanna Sigurdardottir, the island nation's 66-year-old social affairs minister, as Iceland's interim prime minister.

"Now we need a strong government that works with the people," Sigurdardottir told reporters Wednesday, adding that a new administration will likely be installed Saturday.

Sigurdardottir will lead until new elections are held, likely in May. But analysts say she's unlikely to remain in office — chiefly because her center-left Social Democratic Alliance isn't expected to rank among the major parties after the election.

In opinion polls, it trails the Left-Green movement, a junior partner in the new coalition.

Iceland's previous conservative-led government failed Monday after the country's banks collapsed last fall under the weight of huge debts amassed during years of rapid economic growth. The country's currency has since plummeted, while inflation and unemployment are soaring.

Former Prime Minister Geir Haarde won't lead his Independence Party into the new elections because he needs treatment for throat cancer.

While Haarde endured angry protests for months and had his limousine pelted with eggs, polling company Capacent Gallup said Sigurdardottir was Iceland's most popular politician in November, with an approval rating of 73 percent.

She was the only minister to see her rating improve on the previous year's score, Capacent Gallup said Wednesday. The poll of 2,000 people had a margin of error of plus or minus 3 percent.

"It's a question of trust, people believe that she actually cares about people," said Olafur Hardarson, a political scientist at the University of Iceland.

continues:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090128/ap_on_re_eu/eu_iceland_new_leader
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Ennis Del Mark on January 28, 2009, 12:37:08 PM
I was unaware that evangelicals did this kind of witnessing....no wonder they keep singing 'can I get a witness....'

Grant Haas: Ted Haggard Masturbation Witness Speaks
ERIC GORSKI | January 27, 2009 02:06 AM EST | AP

COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. — A young man who formerly attended New Life Church says that then-pastor Ted Haggard performed a sex act in front of him in a hotel room in 2006 and sent him explicit text messages.

His hidden relationship with Haggard, the man said, was followed by a period of isolation, struggles with drinking, drugs and suicide attempts.

Those latest allegations against Haggard, once an influential national evangelical leader, were reported Monday night by KRDO-TV in Colorado Springs, which interviewed the man, now 25.

In a statement earlier Monday, Haggard apologized for his "inappropriate relationship" with the former church volunteer, but said it did not involve physical contact.

The newly disclosed relationship added a chapter to Haggard's dramatic fall, which began in November 2006 when a Denver male prostitute alleged a cash-for-sex relationship with Haggard.

Haggard confessed to undisclosed "sexual immorality" and resigned as president of the National Association of Evangelicals and pastor of New Life Church.

The latest revelations involve Grant Haas, who told the TV station that he met Haggard in 2005 when he was 22. He said he told Haggard that he had been kicked out of a Moody Bible Institute in Chicago for his "struggles with homosexuality."

"It seemed like at that moment his eyes lit up and his whole attitude towards me changed," he told KRDO. Reached by text message Monday, Haas agreed to be identified by The Associated Press. Haggard's statement also identified him.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/27/grant-haas-ted-haggard-ma_n_161261.html




We sang about him in church Sunday!  God of Grace and God of Glory:

"Grant Haas wisdom, Grant Haas courage, for the facing of this hour..."


Mark
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on January 28, 2009, 12:39:05 PM
Were you kneeling or standing when you sang?
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Ennis Del Mark on January 28, 2009, 12:44:48 PM
I don't kneel, Michael...it bags my nylons.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Flyboy on January 28, 2009, 03:59:33 PM
MARK!!!! that's hilarious, I especially like the new "Hymns".................. ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on January 28, 2009, 05:44:20 PM
All I can say about Pope Rat is 'oy'....

Israel's chief rabbinate severs ties with Vatican
By IAN DEITCH, Associated Press Writer Ian Deitch, Associated Press Writer   – 2 hrs 14 mins ago

JERUSALEM – Israel's chief rabbinate severed ties with the Vatican on Wednesday to protest a papal decision to reinstate a bishop who publicly denied 6 million Jews were killed during the Holocaust. The Jewish state's highest religious authority sent a letter to the Holy See expressing "sorrow and pain" at the papal decision.

"It will be very difficult for the chief rabbinate of Israel to continue its dialogue with the Vatican as before," the letter said. Chief rabbis of both the Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews were parties to the letter.

The rabbinate, which faxed a copy of the letter to The Associated Press, also canceled a meeting with the Vatican set for March. The rabbinate and the state of Israel have separate ties with the Vatican, and Wednesday's move does not affect state relations.

Pope Benedict XVI, faced with an uproar over the bishop, said Wednesday he feels "full and indisputable solidarity" with Jews and warned against any denial of the full horror of the Nazi genocide.

The remarks were his first public comments on the issue since the controversy erupted Saturday.

The Vatican spokesman, the Rev. Federico Lombardi, said the Vatican hoped that in light of the pope's words, "the difficulties expressed by the Israeli Rabbinate can be subjected to further and deeper reflection."

Lombardi expressed hope that dialogue between the two parties can continue "fruitfully and serenely."

Oded Weiner, the director general of the chief rabbinate's office, welcomed the pope's remarks, calling them "a big step toward reconciliation."

With his comments, the pope reached out to Jews angered by his decision to rehabilitate bishop Richard Williamson, who told Swedish TV in an interview broadcast last week that evidence "is hugely against 6 million Jews being deliberately gassed." He said 300,000 Jews were killed at most, "but not one of them by gassing in a gas chamber."

About 6 million Jews were systematically murdered by the Nazis and their collaborators during World War II. Many were gassed in death camps while others were killed en masse in other ways, including shooting and starvation. About 240,000 Holocaust survivors live in Israel.

continues:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090128/ap_on_re_eu/eu_vatican_jews;_ylt=AgFOyvgIqpNSxQEcqtYhnI0DW7oF
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on January 30, 2009, 06:30:39 AM
This is too much. Suzanne Summers takes up to 60 pills daily.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/29/suzanne-somers-daily-rout_n_162342.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on January 30, 2009, 09:17:06 AM
I guess not all companies are in trouble Exxon/Mobil $45.2 Billion in profit.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/30/exxon-mobil-reports-recor_n_162468.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Ellen (tellyouwhat) on January 30, 2009, 11:00:46 AM
Bill Moyers just mentioned a statistic that I was unaware of in his show.  It shows again how much work needs to be done in the U.S.:

1 in 100 U.S. Adults Behind Bars, New Study Says
By ADAM LIPTAK
Published: February 28, 2008

For the first time in the nation’s history, more than one in 100 American adults is behind bars, according to a new report.

Nationwide, the prison population grew by 25,000 last year, bringing it to almost 1.6 million. Another 723,000 people are in local jails. The number of American adults is about 230 million, meaning that one in every 99.1 adults is behind bars.

Incarceration rates are even higher for some groups. One in 36 Hispanic adults is behind bars, based on Justice Department figures for 2006. One in 15 black adults is, too, as is one in nine black men between the ages of 20 and 34.

The report, from the Pew Center on the States, also found that only one in 355 white women between the ages of 35 and 39 are behind bars but that one in 100 black women are.

The report’s methodology differed from that used by the Justice Department, which calculates the incarceration rate by using the total population rather than the adult population as the denominator. Using the department’s methodology, about one in 130 Americans is behind bars.

Either way, said Susan Urahn, the center’s managing director, “we aren’t really getting the return in public safety from this level of incarceration.”

But Paul Cassell, a law professor at the University of Utah and a former federal judge, said the Pew report considered only half of the cost-benefit equation and overlooked the “very tangible benefits — lower crime rates.”

In the past 20 years, according the Federal Bureau of Investigation, violent crime rates fell by 25 percent, to 464 for every 100,000 people in 2007 from 612.5 in 1987.

“While we certainly want to be smart about who we put into prisons,” Professor Cassell said, “it would be a mistake to think that we can release any significant number of prisoners without increasing crime rates. One out of every 100 adults is behind bars because one out of every 100 adults has committed a serious criminal offense.”

continues:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/28/us/28cnd-prison.html



wow. 
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on January 30, 2009, 12:13:37 PM
Yes Ellen - and particularly because of who is in prison it's going to take a long time for the effects of racism in this country to change, imho.  I'm hoping that President Obama will do some things to stem the tide of young black and hispanic people going into prison - specifically taking aim at the amount of people being put away for non-violent drug crimes.  Let's have a little of that infrastructure money for drug treatment programs....
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: fritzkep on January 30, 2009, 02:02:06 PM
They're now talking in the legislature about giving non-violent felons back their right to vote after they finish their sentence here in Virginia, one of two states where felons still permanently lose that right.

The news article went on to say that 1 in 4 black men in the state are unable to vote because of this restriction. I had not realized it was anywhere near that high.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on January 30, 2009, 02:06:38 PM
They're now talking in the legislature about giving non-violent felons back their right to vote after they finish their sentence here in Virginia, one of two states where felons still permanently lose that right.

The news article went on to say that 1 in 4 black men in the state are unable to vote because of this restriction. I had not realized it was anywhere near that high.




I think they should. If they paid their debt then why not. Whatare they afraid of. It will get them in the process of participating in the community and society.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on January 30, 2009, 02:10:17 PM
The news article went on to say that 1 in 4 black men in the state are unable to vote because of this restriction. I had not realized it was anywhere near that high.

Actually I had heard this statistic back in 2000 when the Gore/Bush race was on.  Consider the implications!!!!  Particularly in Florida!
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: fritzkep on January 30, 2009, 03:08:26 PM
The legislators have motives other than "law and order" for their discriminatory policies.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: tonydude on January 31, 2009, 12:26:54 PM
  Oh, well.  Just another day in the mind-boggling indifference of Americans to the loss of their civil liberties, and the new President's conciliatory refusal to pursue.  On Huffington Post, there's a running blog by Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., and Brendan DeMelle, and, today, I finally got around to reading their latest, that the whistleblower Russell Tice has said the NSA monitored phone calls of all U.S. journalists, but also:  all Americans.  In domestic calls.
  Clearly we aren't talking about traditional wiretaps here as that is so primitive and would require hundreds of thousands of feds, snooping.  Tice could not explain how it's done, but, frankly, it is the nation's biggest secret-which-isn't-a-secret:  the supercomputers that can monitor all telecommunications, and process them picking out what is of interest by "flag" words and phonemes (in linguistics, the smallest sound units with meaning).
 Not a secret because 10-12 years ago, France threatened to take the U.S. to the World Court over abuse of this technological breakthrough, claiming we were using it to eavesdrop on business deals, giving the advantage to U.S. firms.  At that time, the supercomputer was identified as the Echelon computer, which, if you enjoy conspiracy theories, type that one in for a search, and you find every crackpot around has discredited any real discussion of the issue by their wild, and unfounded, allegations.
 That was over a decade ago, and we can be sure there have been handy-dandy upgrades.  At any rate, the technology is mind-boggling (and expensive) and is of real value to our national security.  But, once again, no real oversight and no accountability apparently led to the smug decisions of Bush/Cheney to border on politicizing this capability.  Which is.....an extreme threat to our way of life as we know it.  Or, knew it.
  And there really IS no hope for congressional hearings, for the simple reason, explained so sweetly by Cheney recently, that the administration kept the Democrats on the intelligence committees informed.  Those Democrats (including Nancy Pelosi), did not object as the last thing they wanted was the Bushies to nail them for any terrorist attack that might occur.  So the Democratic majority, that was finally attained, doesn't dare DO anything.  Nor does the President.
  Wiretaps are what we read about in the news.  They went the way of the dinosaur.  What we have now is technology critical to our defense, but easily abused.  And the article on this? Well, it was stale news and was dropped, today, although going to  their blog and mousing Russell Tice will bring up some information.
 Just another day where something that should be fixed, isn't, because it's inconvenient.  Back to peanut butter recalls, Wall Street bonuses, and huge ice storms.  And we can only hope, the President sees the danger, and discretely institutes reforms.  That's if he sees the danger.  He has, so far, made his strongest asset, a temperament preferring reconciliation, into, potentially, his greatest weakness.
  We need reform.  The next political swing towards the right wing may bring in a crew that makes Bush/Cheney look like moderates.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on January 31, 2009, 02:57:32 PM
This policy was originally enacted by Ronald Reagan in 1985 and upheld by Bush Sr.  It was overturned by Bill Clinton and put back into effect by Bush Jr.  Regardless of what you think of abortion the implications of this policy on the AIDS crisis in Africa has been devastating:

America abortion debate reaches into African slums
  By KATHARINE HOURELD, Associated Press Writer Katharine Houreld, Associated Press Writer   – 2 hrs 51 mins ago

NAIROBI, Kenya – Nairobi's sprawling Kibera slum is far from America but not from America's battle over abortion.

Aid workers and experts say President Barack Obama's decision to allow aid money to flow again to international groups that offer abortion counseling will help restart programs desperately needed in Africa, the continent hardest hit by a so-called "gag rule."

Dr. Walter Odhiambo, the country director for Marie Stopes Kenya, said his family planning organization had been limping along on European aid because of the U.S. rule Obama overturned on Jan. 23 in one of his first presidential acts. Now, Odhiambo said, he would be applying for U.S. funds he hoped to use to expand counseling and other services, particularly in rural Kenya.

"Family planning was not given the prominence it needs," Odhiambo said.

The policy banned U.S. government money from going to international family planning groups that either offer abortions or provide information, counseling or referrals about abortion. Its critics call it the "global gag rule," because it prohibits funding for groups that lobby to legalize abortion or promote it as a family planning method. That can affect a range of services provided by private groups on a continent where governments can meet few of their citizens' health needs.

"The biggest impact has been in sub-Saharan Africa," said Wendy Turnbull, a researcher for Washington-based Population Action International, which lobbies on family planning issues and applauded Obama's move.

Turnbull applauded the Bush administration for spending millions to fight AIDS and other health threats in Africa, but said the gag rule undermined that effort.

For instance, she said, groups that could have helped distribute the condoms the U.S. was supplying to fight AIDS were denied funding because of their stance on abortion.

"When you are making rules, it's not right to just look at the immediate effects," said Nkandu Luo, a Zambian former minister of health who currently heads her country's independent Society for Women and AIDS. "It's important to look at the long-term implications."

A study by the Washington-based Center for Reproductive Rights said the policy hit hardest in Africa, the fastest growing and poorest continent. Latin Americans and Asians were more likely to accept the ban and keep funding, either because they embraced its intent or relied more on U.S. money, the study concluded.

Clinics serving over 1.5 million women closed in Kenya, homeland of Obama's father, said Marie Stopes Kenya and Family Health Options Kenya. Contraceptive availability in Zambia was reduced. AIDS programs run by family planning groups in Ethiopia were affected.

Even without the U.S. policy, abortions would be controversial here. They are illegal in almost all African countries, many of which have conservative Christian or Muslim populations — one of the reasons women interviewed about their abortions declined to give their full names.

But the laws have simply pushed abortions into back rooms instead of ending the practice.

Marie Stopes Kenya, which does not offer abortions, closed two slum clinics after losing its USAID funding because of its association with Marie Stopes International, one of the world's largest family planning organizations.

continues:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090131/ap_on_re_af/af_africa_obama_abortion
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: WhenPigsFly on February 01, 2009, 04:03:37 AM
  Oh, well.  Just another day in the mind-boggling indifference of Americans to the loss of their civil liberties, and the new President's conciliatory refusal to pursue.  On Huffington Post, there's a running blog by Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., and Brendan DeMelle, and, today, I finally got around to reading their latest, that the whistleblower Russell Tice has said the NSA monitored phone calls of all U.S. journalists, but also:  all Americans.  In domestic calls.

Tony:  Hearings! Heck! With the exception of Olbermann and Maddow, we can't get the corporate media to even notice the Tice bombshell.  Even after the NYTimes knows for a fact that one of its own was targeted.  Wonder why?


Quote
http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2009/01/ta_012909.html
Think Again: Spying on Journalists? Why the Silence?
By Eric Alterman, George Zornick | January 29, 2009

[. . .]

Surprise, surprise: Fewer than 24 hours after the end of the Bush presidency, a former analyst at the National Security Agency revealed on MSNBC’s “Countdown with Keith Olbermann” that Bush’s National Security Agency “monitored all communications” of Americans and that U.S. news organizations and individual journalists were specifically targeted.

Former analyst Russell Tice told Olbermann that, “The National Security Agency had access to all Americans’ communications—faxes, phone calls, and their computer communications. And it didn’t matter whether you were in Kansas, in the middle of the country, and you never made any foreign communications at all.”

Tice went on to explain that, in fact, particular journalists were targeted, just as they were during the bad old days of Watergate. When Olbermann asked if there was “a file somewhere full of every e-mail sent by all the reporters at the New York Times?” or if “there [is] a recording somewhere of every conversation I had with my little nephew in upstate New York? Is it like that?” Tice responded that, indeed, “if it was involved in this specific avenue of collection, it would be everything. Yes. It would be everything.”

Within days, New York Times reporter James Risen also appeared on Olbermann and said that he suspects he was a victim of such surveillance: “What I know for a fact is that the Bush administration got my phone records. Whether that was obtained by the FBI or the NSA, my lawyers and I have been trying to investigate that.”

Risen and Tice have some history together—in 2005, Risen, along with Eric Lichtblau, wrote an article in The New York Times exposing the Bush administration’s warrantless wiretapping program for the first time. Tice was one of their sources. Risen and Lichtblau won Pulitzer Prizes for their reporting—something that Dick Cheney noted during his farewell round of interviews “always aggravated him.”

The Bush administration was aggravated as soon as the story was printed and attempted to identify Risen’s sources within the federal government. The New York Times reported in April that government officials called before a grand jury were confronted with phone records documenting their calls with Risen. Notably, neither Risen nor The New York Times received a subpoena for those records. This is why Risen believes he was targeted under the surveillance now described by Tice.

So, how did The New York Times cover Tice’s revelations that ordinary American citizens, journalists in general, and possibly one of their own reporters in particular, had their communications monitored without a warrant? As far as we can tell, not at all.

Neither Tice nor his charges were discussed in the Times, either in print or online. This was standard across much of the mainstream media—The Washington Post, Los Angeles Times, USA Today, and Associated Press have all remained completely silent about Tice’s allegations. And in one of his many, many “legacy” interviews, Bush told Fox’s Brett Baier in December that they were simply “listening to a phone call from a known terrorist.” He was not challenged on this point during that interview, nor any other of which we are aware.

Of course, this is hardly the first time that the mainstream media has looked the other way toward NSA spying. The NSA’s surveillance of U.N. diplomats in New York before the invasion of Iraq didn’t get much mainstream attention when the story broke (in Britain), nor since. But one might imagine that the direct spying on journalists themselves would excite more attention, particularly given the self-interested aspects of the question and the constitutional complications it raises. Tice’s tantalizing tip was mentioned again on Rachel Maddow’s show, as well on Chris Matthews’, and Michael Calderone blogged about it on the Politico. But that’s it.

Clearly something deeply disturbing lurks beneath these revelations, and with Bush gone from office, it’s hard to understand just what is preventing journalists from seeking the truth about this program more energetically. The only thing they have to fear is fear itself.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: tonydude on February 01, 2009, 11:42:53 AM
Tony:  Hearings! Heck! With the exception of Olbermann and Maddow, we can't get the corporate media to even notice the Tice bombshell.  Even after the NYTimes knows for a fact that one of its own was targeted.  Wonder why?
  Dear JD - thanks for taking my post seriously, and for your own attention to a very serious subject.  As to why the media are not pursuing, I am, myself, puzzled.  But I think some of the following might be in play:

-  the new technology for monitoring domestic calls is so advanced, there is a credibility problem.  Wiretaps, people understand.  Super-computers that can process trillions of phonemes (linguistic units), flag those of interest, and zero in on them, people can't.  Technically speaking, ALL calls are monitored, by this technique, and those chosen for specific eavesdropping are those that either were discovered (which is of great value to national security) or those decided on in advance (a help to security but also, a temptation to political abuse).
  Again, the only computer named openly has been the Echelon computer, and, owing to the whacko's and New World Order conspiracy theorists, serious discussion of what is admitted to be in use, is tainted.

- fear of reprisal.  Journalists and publishers have sex scandals, too, along with tax-returns that might not be so perfect. 

- again, the method of monitoring calls is known, but, owing to whatever odds and ends the government can bring into play, they can still claim, the information is classified, and so, newspapers can't publish.  That's bull crap, of course, since the big secret is no secret, but this works for suppressing information about abuse.

   Then again, maybe it's the over-all climate:  the media has tested the waters with some stories and found we don't seem to give a damn.  That would be the worst explanation of all.             
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on February 01, 2009, 06:46:51 PM
  Oh, well.  Just another day in the mind-boggling indifference of Americans to the loss of their civil liberties, and the new President's conciliatory refusal to pursue.  On Huffington Post, there's a running blog by Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., and Brendan DeMelle, and, today, I finally got around to reading their latest, that the whistleblower Russell Tice has said the NSA monitored phone calls of all U.S. journalists, but also:  all Americans.  In domestic calls.

Tony:  Hearings! Heck! With the exception of Olbermann and Maddow, we can't get the corporate media to even notice the Tice bombshell.  Even after the NYTimes knows for a fact that one of its own was targeted.  Wonder why?

Okay, here's a question for you both.  What is the difference between what has been reported about the NSA by Olbermann and Maddow and this:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/11/07/MNIST7NS9.DTL&hw=phone+records+NSA&sn=005&sc=775

Or this:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/07/09/INGIVJQ75N1.DTL&hw=phone+records+NSA&sn=008&sc=479

Or this:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/07/09/INGIVJQ75N1.DTL&hw=phone+records+NSA&sn=008&sc=479

It seems clear that for years now phone companies have been willing to break their own rules regarding privacy:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/05/12/BUGICIQA461.DTL&hw=phone+records+NSA&sn=014&sc=330

Aside from the Electronic Frontier Foundation I haven't heard of many people fighting against this sort of thing that has been going on for years now:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/05/23/MNGIOJ0G7L1.DTL&hw=phone+records+NSA&sn=017&sc=264

And if you want to go back even further you can see that even before companies gave their tacit approval to wiretaps, it was little or no challenge for the government to tap anyone's phone - it is rarely, if ever, challenged:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/e/a/1995/11/12/NEWS12447.dtl&hw=phone+company+wiretapping&sn=002&sc=606

So I guess I would wonder why you would expect outrage now?  This has been going on for decades - in both Democratic and Republican administrations.  I know people think they voted for change - but they didn't vote in a new political party. 

I tend to agree with the last point in tonydude's last post - the media has written about this in the past - but there is no traction among the public.  And unless the public gets outraged, you can't expect the politicos to do anything.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on February 02, 2009, 08:39:19 AM
I guess Bailed out banks paid millions on Super Bowl Festivities. Who didn't see this coming? I did. They are nothing more than Criminals.


http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=6782719&page=1
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: tonydude on February 02, 2009, 10:52:30 AM
So I guess I would wonder why you would expect outrage now?  This has been going on for decades - in both Democratic and Republican administrations.  I know people think they voted for change - but they didn't vote in a new political party. 

I tend to agree with the last point in tonydude's last post - the media has written about this in the past - but there is no traction among the public.  And unless the public gets outraged, you can't expect the politicos to do anything
   Dear Mike - thanks for the links, which were the core of your post, above.  They shook me up more than a little.  I tend to feel isolated in my worries about the ever-expanding abuse of our privacy and civil liberties, but clearly, many people are, in fact, tracking this.  And, as usual, I am always amazed at your incredible ability to rustle up appropriate links to so many issues. 
  There is one aspect to all of this that is, however, not getting through to our leaders:  the abuse of civil liberties, oddly enough, exactly coincides with a lessening of our safety from attack. Why? Because the arrogance and incompetence that lead to abuses are the same personality traits that have us rummaging around and spending resources in the wrong areas, leaving us ever more vulnerable.
  Am not saying the technological breakthroughs have no value.  They do.  But attitude is everything.  And the same power-crazed attitudes that lead to these expensive programs, clearly illegal, generated the casual flipping off of two warnings from FBI field agents prior to 9/11 that terrorist suspects were training, in this country, how to fly large planes, but not how to land them.
  We need reform, and urgently, in the areas of accountability and oversight.  But, as you also noted, the traction isn't there.  And while the NSA is cheerfully monitoring everybody, no one seems to notice, they aren't producing any results that would really make us safer, and they have created a climate where anything could happen, because of over-confidence in the dubious results of massive eavesdropping.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on February 02, 2009, 11:10:38 AM
It doesn't take rocket science. Employed Americans spend money. Put all monies into shovel-ready jobs and establishing new jobs. The faster Americans are employed, the faster the economy will turn around. Leave bank bailouts out of the equation. Put the money DIRECTLY into businesses who provide directly to the community and have laid employees off. For example, Caterpillar can rehire employees if Caterpillar get the intrastructure jobs that are shovel-ready such as state-wide road and bridge projects, transit system improvement, etc. In other words, invest the money from "ground up" instead of the "top down" like it has been done for past 8 years and did not work.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on February 02, 2009, 12:30:15 PM
A recent poll shows that most GOP want a Palin like Party. - One fiull ingnorant, uneducated, hatefull people. GOOD, they'll loose even more seats.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/02/poll-majority-of-republic_n_163166.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: pattieono on February 03, 2009, 10:54:41 AM
  Sorry if it'd been mentioned, but.........
      The release of Prop 8 donor's list;  is there the same kind list for the Florida Amnt. 2 ?
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on February 03, 2009, 11:26:33 AM
Religious Right Watch: Making it illegal to be gay
Quote
Religious right rhetoric on traditional marriage is often framed as concern about preserving the institution as a bond between one man and one woman, but an international flap over an anti-gay marriage law in Nigeria has revealed the true intent of “traditional marriage” groups: the imprisonment of gays and lesbians for their sexual orientation.

Last week the Nigerian House of Representatives voted to approve a measure that would impose a jail sentence on gays and lesbians who live together and on those who assist them. The bill says it’s illegal for “the coming together of persons of the same sex with the purpose of living together as husband and wife or for other purposes of same sexual relationship.” Violators could be imprisoned for up to three years. People who “witness, abet and aid the solemnization of a same gender marriage” face up to five years in prison.

International human rights groups and members of the European Union are calling for a suspension of international aid to Nigeria because the law violates international human rights agreements. That has America’s religious right leaders and media outlets upset.

“The European Union has certainly been infiltrated by homo-fascists. There’s just no doubt about it,” said Matt Barber of Jerry Falwell’s Liberty University School of Law and Liberty Counsel. “They are using that body to essentially try to push the international homosexual agenda down the throats of countries that respect traditional values relative to sexual morality.

“We have the Defense of Marriage Act on the books [in the United States]; why aren’t they coming after the U.S.? Well, because what bullies do is they pick on someone that is weaker than they are,” he continued. “So the European Union is trying to make an example out of Nigeria because they are in a position of influence and power, yet they will not pick the same fight with the United States because they know it would be to no avail.”

Imagine that Alabama passed a law that arrested people of the same sex who lived together on suspicion of “sodomy” and the state began imprisoning the friends and family of  gays and lesbians for buying them housewarming gifts. That’s exactly what Barber is defending.

The defense of imprisoning gays and lesbians is not new for the religious right. Right here in Minnesota, the “pro-family” group Minnesota Family Council was founded to defend sodomy laws, laws that police used for decades to arrest gays and lesbians on the street, raid and shut down gay and lesbian bars, and imprison same-sex couples.

http://minnesotaindependent.com/25276/religious-right-watch-making-it-illegal-to-be-gay (http://minnesotaindependent.com/25276/religious-right-watch-making-it-illegal-to-be-gay)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on February 03, 2009, 11:32:39 AM
judd gregg nominated for commerce secretary.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/washingtondc/la-na-gregg4-2009feb04,0,3404616.story

look for some embarrassing revelations about his prior statements on the commerce department while in the senate.

(and i still don't see how this guy is so good he gets to tell the president his "conditions" for accepting the nod.  republicans certainly have healthy egos.)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on February 03, 2009, 01:00:53 PM
I know Obama wants to "play nice" with others, but he
had better have a line to draw in the sand when necessary.
I don't see the Repubicans really interested in anything but
getting their own way.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: WhenPigsFly on February 03, 2009, 03:27:32 PM
Here's some change we can believe in!

Quote
On Monday, the Justice Department undid a small part of the damage that top officials caused in a scandal of politicized hiring and firing during the Bush administration. The department rehired an attorney who was improperly removed from her job because she was rumored to be a lesbian.


Complete  story here:  http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=100147494&sc=emaf
 

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on February 03, 2009, 03:31:22 PM
Bailed-out Wells Fargo plans Vegas casino junkets

Quote
Wells Fargo & Co., which received $25 billion in taxpayer bailout money, is planning a series of corporate junkets to Las Vegas casinos this month.

Wells Fargo, once among the nation's top writers of subprime mortgages, has booked 12 nights at the Wynn Las Vegas and its sister hotel, the Encore Las Vegas beginning Friday, said Wynn spokeswoman Michelle Loosbrock. The hotels will host the annual conference for company's top mortgage officers.

The conference is a Wells Fargo tradition. Previous years have included all-expense-paid helicopter rides, wine tasting, horseback riding in Puerto Rico and a private Jimmy Buffett concert in the Bahamas for more than 1,000 employees and guests.

"I was amazed with just how lavish it was," said Debra Rickard, a former Wells Fargo mortgage employee from Colorado who attended the events regularly until she left the company in 2004. "We stayed in top hotels, the entertainment was just unbelievable, and there were awards — you got plaques or trophies."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/02/03/national/w115748S75.DTL&tsp=1 (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/02/03/national/w115748S75.DTL&tsp=1)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Ennis Del Mark on February 03, 2009, 04:28:16 PM
I'm so pissed about Tom Daschle--I always liked him.  Dumb Dakotan.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: WhenPigsFly on February 03, 2009, 04:38:54 PM

 
I tend to agree with the last point in tonydude's last post - the media has written about this in the past - but there is no traction among the public.  And unless the public gets outraged, you can't expect the politicos to do anything.

I agree.  I've long believed that unless a story has sex or some tabloid-worthy scandal, the public's response is a big yawn. Of course, bloggers are skewing that opinion, but not by much.

There was a time when NY Times could be relied on to provide space for the hard news regardless of public demand.  But, while James Risen of the Times won a Pulitzer on his long-delayed 2005 warrantless wiretapping story, the only place I could find Tice's name in the Times last week was in Comments sections.  Readers were asking why there was no coverage of this latest from Tice.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: killersmom on February 03, 2009, 08:16:51 PM
Bailed-out Wells Fargo plans Vegas casino junkets

Quote
Wells Fargo & Co., which received $25 billion in taxpayer bailout money, is planning a series of corporate junkets to Las Vegas casinos this month.

Wells Fargo, once among the nation's top writers of subprime mortgages, has booked 12 nights at the Wynn Las Vegas and its sister hotel, the Encore Las Vegas beginning Friday, said Wynn spokeswoman Michelle Loosbrock. The hotels will host the annual conference for company's top mortgage officers.

The conference is a Wells Fargo tradition. Previous years have included all-expense-paid helicopter rides, wine tasting, horseback riding in Puerto Rico and a private Jimmy Buffett concert in the Bahamas for more than 1,000 employees and guests.

"I was amazed with just how lavish it was," said Debra Rickard, a former Wells Fargo mortgage employee from Colorado who attended the events regularly until she left the company in 2004. "We stayed in top hotels, the entertainment was just unbelievable, and there were awards — you got plaques or trophies."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/02/03/national/w115748S75.DTL&tsp=1 (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/02/03/national/w115748S75.DTL&tsp=1)

I posted this over in the political thread, John.

http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=31828.msg1497801#msg1497801
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on February 03, 2009, 08:39:02 PM
Here's some change we can believe in!

Quote
On Monday, the Justice Department undid a small part of the damage that top officials caused in a scandal of politicized hiring and firing during the Bush administration. The department rehired an attorney who was improperly removed from her job because she was rumored to be a lesbian.


Complete  story here:  http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=100147494&sc=emaf

they have not, however, stepped up to reimburse her for her lost wages and legal expenses, and apparently have no intention of doing so.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: WhenPigsFly on February 03, 2009, 09:01:29 PM

they have not, however, stepped up to reimburse her for her lost wages and legal expenses, and apparently have no intention of doing so.

Hagen's probably had her fill of lawyers, but could she bring a civil suit against Monica Goodling?

 
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on February 03, 2009, 10:29:15 PM
First Photo of Octuplets !

(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj282/SanFranciscoJohn/First-Photo-of-Octuplets-52698.jpg)

http://www.freakingnews.com/First-Photo-of-Octuplets-Pictures-60666.asp (http://www.freakingnews.com/First-Photo-of-Octuplets-Pictures-60666.asp)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on February 04, 2009, 09:43:27 AM
Merkel attacks the Pope. WOW!!! Someone who stands up to the Pope.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/04/angela-merkel-attacks-pop_n_163843.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on February 05, 2009, 10:50:49 AM
109 journalists were killed in 2008. WOW!!! Lets intimidate people from learning the truth!!! Thats how I see it.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/04/109-journalists-killed-in_n_163930.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on February 05, 2009, 11:06:33 AM
It's down from 175 in 2007 - I wonder if that's because it's becoming safer to work in Iraq?
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on February 05, 2009, 01:36:24 PM
This is very disturbing - I am concerned that the people who are coming back from the wars will be in really bad shape.  I still see Vietnam vets on the streets as a daily occurrence:

Suicide has claimed 10 Utah Guard members since 2005
Rising numbers » Military responding with increased social workers, counselors.
By Matthew D. LaPlante
The Salt Lake Tribune
Posted: 02/03/2009 06:17:00 PM MST

 Since 2005, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have cost the lives of two soldiers from the Utah National Guard.

Suicide has claimed 10.

In response to an alarming increase of suicide in its ranks, the military has hired a virtual army of social workers, mental health professionals and suicide-prevention counselors to work with its members. But for the fourth consecutive year, the Army has reported an increase in the number of soldiers it has lost to suicide. At least 128 soldiers took their own lives in 2008 - - --- and that number could rise, as 15 other deaths remain under investigation.

"Why do the numbers keep going up? We cannot tell you," said Army Secretary Pete Geren. "But we can tell you that across the Army, we're committed to doing everything we can to address the problem."

In response to the rising numbers, the Army will conduct a 30-day "stand-down" starting Feb. 15, which will include training for members to recognize behaviors among their peers that may lead to suicide.

Utah National Guard officials said they are awaiting guidance on how to conduct that program, but will continue education and training efforts that seem to have helped to decrease suicide among their ranks in the past four years.

The Utah guard lost three soldiers to suicide in 2005, four in 2006, one in 2007 and two in 2008. Officials said statistics from prior years were unavailable because the Guard's personnel officers didn't track
Advertisement

suicides separately from other deaths until 2005, but at least one soldier killed himself in 2004 while on duty in Afghanistan with the 211th Aviation Battalion.

Since the overall count of Utah Guardsmen is small compared to the Army as a whole, the drop is not considered statistically significant. But Utah Guard officials said the local reduction is promising, and Adjutant General Brian Tarbet said he would not let up the fight.

"Our soldiers and airmen and their families give their all to protect us at home and abroad," Tarbet said, "and we will continue to do all we can as leaders to educate our members on how to recognize, report and prevent suicides."

continues:

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_11620245

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on February 05, 2009, 02:18:36 PM
^^^^ very sad. My Manager at my parttime job best friend committed suicide 1 month after he came back from Iraq in 2007. He was only 26 years old.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on February 06, 2009, 06:42:29 AM
Putin paid for an ABBA trinute band to sing for him. This is so Funny. ABBA keeps on giving, one of the biggest come backs without actually getting back together to do it.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/05/vladimir-putin-pays-to-fl_n_164509.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on February 06, 2009, 07:54:32 PM
A.Q. Khan, the Pakistani nuclear scientist who spread nuclear technology to Iran, North Korea and Libya was released today.  Okay!  So I just got a little bit less worried about the economy....

A.Q. Khan, Pakistani nuclear scientist, freed by Pakistan court
By Mubashir Zaidi and Laura King
6:55 AM PST, February 6, 2009
Los Angeles Times

Reporting from Istanbul, Turkey, and Islamabad, Pakistan -- A Pakistani court today freed nuclear scientist A.Q. Khan from unofficial house arrest, capping a rehabilitation that began almost from the moment he confessed in 2004 to providing sensitive nuclear technology to rogue regimes around the world.

Khan, considered the father of Pakistan's nuclear program, held a jubilant impromptu news conference with his lawyer outside his home on a leafy, tree-lined street in the Pakistani capital. "I have got my freedom," he told reporters shortly after a ruling by the Islamabad High Court.

The full text of the ruling was not released, but a short statement confirmed that the court had declared Khan a "free citizen." His lawyer, Ali Zafer, said he had been cleared of all charges, but the court document made no such reference.

Pakistani officials suggested some restrictions on Khan's movements might remain in place. Prosecutor Amjad Iqbal Qureshi said the 72-year-old scientist, who suffers from a variety of ailments including prostate cancer, would be subject to unspecified "security measures," and his lawyer said he was willing to accept having guards for personal protection.

The issue is clouded by the fact that the government never formally acknowledged Khan was under house arrest, though guards outside his villa for the past five years have curtailed his comings and goings and screened his guests. Last year, however, Khan was allowed some limited travel privileges, including a trip to the port city of Karachi, and he began granting telephone interviews to Pakistani media.

While widely viewed in the West as a disgraced figure responsible for disseminating secret nuclear technology to dangerous regimes in Iran, North Korea and Libya, Khan is regarded by many Pakistanis as a national hero.

After confessing on Pakistani TV five years ago to his involvement in the international nuclear black market, Khan was pardoned by then-President Pervez Musharraf and largely confined to his home.

Pakistan has consistently refused to make Khan available for questioning by international nuclear regulatory authorities and other investigators, a policy that has been kept in place by the new civilian government.

Asked by reporters at his home today about his role in leaking atomic secrets, Khan said: "We don't want to talk about the past."

continues:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-pakistan-khan7-2009feb07,0,4151948.story
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on February 07, 2009, 09:22:22 PM
well, the collapse of the economy finally reaches close to home.  that, and the gobbling up of smaller businesses by one bloeated entity.

a signiicant chunk of gay media distribution just took the pipe, details here...

http://gaycitynews.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=20257094&BRD=2729&PAG=461&dept_id=568864&rfi=6


Quote
The investment fund that owns the Washington Blade, the Southern Voice, Genre magazine, and other gay publications has been forced into receivership by the federal Small Business Administration (SBA), which will sell the fund's assets and distribute the proceeds to investors.
--------------------------

Avalon is the majority owner in Window Media, which owns the Washington Blade, the Southern Voice, the South Florida Blade, and other gay publications. Avalon also owns Genre magazine.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: pattieono on February 08, 2009, 11:26:07 AM
  I posted the following on the "DVD Donation Campaign" thread, but i'm hoping Michaelflanagansf sees it, since he hangs out here a lot;

 I am replacing some of my DVDs for Blu-ray and want to donate them.  I went to the master list of libraries on page one of the campaign thread. I would like to find some with the biggest needs, but it's like a needle in haystack type of situation.
  Can somebody give me an idea of which areas might benefit more from this?  I looked at some of them at random, but, how accurate are these librarie's catalogs?  (I looked in a Worland, WY library catalog, and it said "none in existence" for BBM!! :">)  I want to give away my BBM, Gone With The Wind, Amadeus, Dances with Wolves................
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on February 08, 2009, 12:26:02 PM
  I posted the following on the "DVD Donation Campaign" thread, but i'm hoping Michaelflanagansf sees it, since he hangs out here a lot;

 I am replacing some of my DVDs for Blu-ray and want to donate them.  I went to the master list of libraries on page one of the campaign thread. I would like to find some with the biggest needs, but it's like a needle in haystack type of situation.
  Can somebody give me an idea of which areas might benefit more from this?  I looked at some of them at random, but, how accurate are these librarie's catalogs?  (I looked in a Worland, WY library catalog, and it said "none in existence" for BBM!! :">)  I want to give away my BBM, Gone With The Wind, Amadeus, Dances with Wolves................

I'll take a look a little bit later in the afternoon and get back to you!
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on February 08, 2009, 02:35:57 PM
pattie...

i don't think libraries usually take used dvd"s, but you mightlook into some schools or community centers in disadvantaged communities of which there are many right in your area, unless things have changed a lot since i last lived there.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on February 08, 2009, 03:41:15 PM
pattie...

i don't think libraries usually take used dvd"s, but you mightlook into some schools or community centers in disadvantaged communities of which there are many right in your area, unless things have changed a lot since i last lived there.

Libraries take used DVDs Jack.

ETA:  I'll answer this in the donations thread.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on February 09, 2009, 07:03:28 AM
Ann Coulter under investigation for voting Freud. I hope shoes to jail.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/08/ann-coulter-under-investi_n_165007.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on February 09, 2009, 10:23:36 AM
Ann Coulter under investigation for voting Freud. I hope shoes to jail.

I think she should be able to vote for Freud if she wants to - but he's been dead since 1939 (perhaps she voted for Lucian - he's still alive, but he's British).
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on February 09, 2009, 10:35:03 AM
Ann Coulter under investigation for voting Freud. I hope shoes to jail.

I think she should be able to vote for Freud if she wants to - but he's been dead since 1939 (perhaps she voted for Lucian - he's still alive, but he's British).


OOPS!!
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on February 09, 2009, 10:54:33 AM
Oh...that's okay...you just reminded me of Gilda as Emily Litela.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on February 09, 2009, 11:40:42 AM
never mind
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Ennis Del Mark on February 09, 2009, 05:14:36 PM
Voting Freud...too funny, Tom!  You were probably thinking of your mother when you wrote that. 
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on February 11, 2009, 10:31:24 AM
Big jump in Blue Cross premiums sparks outrage

Quote
Anthem Blue Cross, which plans to raise premiums for about four-fifths of the health insurer's individual policyholders effective March 1, has outraged members, many of whom have been hit with price increases of more than 30 percent.

San Francisco resident and cafe owner Jesse Fink, who has had Blue Cross coverage for at least 30 years, has gotten used to regular premium increases. But he wasn't prepared for a letter telling him the cost to cover himself and his family would jump by 31 percent on March 1.

"How could they just charge a 31 percent increase?" said Fink, 55, who already has raised his annual deductibles from $2,500 to $5,000 per family member. He said his 23-year-old son, who is on a separate policy, got a 40 percent increase.

"This is pushing the need for health care reform," he said. "When someone gets, God forbid, cancer or something, are we supposed to go broke?"

Blue Cross has been doing this for years.

I can remember when they raised their rates by over 13% a year for 4 years in a row when I worked at Bay Valley Hotel.

And then they would moan and complain if we tried to raise our room rates by 3%, saying that they couldn't afford the increase because they were a 'non-profit'.

Health insurance is probably the next bubble to burst.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/02/11/BU2F15I06K.DTL&tsp=1 (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/02/11/BU2F15I06K.DTL&tsp=1)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: huntinbuddy on February 11, 2009, 10:34:35 AM


Health insurance is probably the next bubble to burst.


Yep, and what a pop it will make!
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: fritzkep on February 11, 2009, 03:55:27 PM
Wish it would pop. My premiums with Kaiser have been increasing every year way more than double or triple the rate of inflation.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on February 13, 2009, 02:51:07 PM
The idiot Beverly Hills doctor who helped foist 8 more children
onto the California welfare ("government assistance") roles, has
impregnated another woman, 49 years old, who already has three
grown children, but wanted just one more with her new husband.
This woman is now in the hospital at County USC because she
has no money and no insurance and she is pregnant with q u a d r u p l e t s !

http://buzz.yahoo.com/article/1:momlogic526:b5b51186a106f1de8f7a7c6dbc3cb118

To quote Susan Powter:  STOP THE INSANITY!
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on February 13, 2009, 03:12:44 PM
You know...I've never seen you and Susan in a room together...hmmmmm....

This is part of the trivializing of what it means to be a parent or a family, imho.  You see it in people who treat children as an accessory and those who believe it's god's plan that they have all the children they are capable of having. 

That being said anyone who puts children in that sort of situation should get a visit from their local child services agency, I think.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: WhenPigsFly on February 13, 2009, 03:13:02 PM


To quote Susan Powter:  STOP THE INSANITY!

Take a look at Suleman's Twitter account:  besides wondering if there are ways to make money on Twitter,  she also sent out an SOS for a man (no doubt unaware that she was being redundant  ;))!  Oh! and she's writing a book (having apparently miscalculated on the public's demand for a realityTV show about her parenting skills).
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: CANSTANDIT on February 14, 2009, 12:00:15 PM
Ann Coulter under investigation for voting Freud. I hope shoes to jail.

I think she should be able to vote for Freud if she wants to - but he's been dead since 1939 (perhaps she voted for Lucian - he's still alive, but he's British).


OOPS!!
It wouldn't kill her to have a shrink .... ;)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: CANSTANDIT on February 14, 2009, 12:06:22 PM
I had some excitement, which I'm now reporting all over the place:

Pres Jimmy Carter was at a local bookstore last night-a modertely-sized independant called, Changing Hands (new and used books)-and he signed two copies of his new Middle East book for me-"We Can Have Peace In the Holy Land". There were about 2000 people and lines all over the parking lot. But it went very well and very smoothly. I actually got to thank him for his efforts in the Middle East, and he lifted his head, twinkled those azure eyes, and said, 'Why, thank yew'. I really got a thrill out of it-I think I may have skipped off....

Some people weren't even talking to him, just gawking-I thought, hell with that, this is my only chance....but I noticed other people started to say things to him!  ;D ;D I think he liked it...He had a very sweet, very white smile, and he looks pretty good-he is smaller than I imagined.

I started the book last night, and I'm already getting caught up in it...we'll see.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: CANSTANDIT on February 14, 2009, 12:11:08 PM
http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=30993.msg1501737#msg1501737

I guess someone was bound to do it..... ;D ;D
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Zudos on February 15, 2009, 08:11:09 AM
I was wondering whether anyone was interested in having a discussion about the West's general foreign policy with Iran...?

I have watched 3 documentaries in the last week. 'Iran and the West' you might be able to still get on the BBC website, which present what seems to be a balanced view, and read countless articles...

And it makes me wonder, and in fact actually insesnses me, as to why the West, particularly the UK and USA continue with their treatment of Iran...? And why everyone is so worried as to whether they have nuclear capacity.

Fact: The West supported terror when it supplied Sadam with weapons in the 80's.
Fact: Iran's military strategy has always been one of deterence, and they have not invaded another country in over 2 centuries.
Fact: The West tried to manipulate the Iranian Governement for the better part of the 20th Century

Sorry if this is the wrong thread, but not sure where else I could see who wanted to discuss this...

Thanks.

 
     
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on February 15, 2009, 10:53:59 AM
Quote
And it makes me wonder, and in fact actually insesnses me, as to why the West, particularly the UK and USA continue with their treatment of Iran...? And why everyone is so worried as to whether they have nuclear capacity.

Because the west is planning to take over Iran just like we did with Iraq. It's all about the oil.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Ennis Del Mark on February 15, 2009, 02:09:36 PM
You're right, John.  I'm frankly amazed that one of the Bush administration's last moves wasn't an invasion of Iran.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Zudos on February 15, 2009, 03:21:14 PM
Guys,

Thanks for saying that... I thought I was going quite mad, and being overly liberal... Obama has made a few comments about Iran and building relations, but also said that Iran first has to unclench its fist... Does it...? I would have thought an apology or gesture from USA/UK would be more appropriate to get the process started...

Are your feelings general across the US?     
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Zudos on February 15, 2009, 03:23:27 PM
And you're right about it being all about the oil... The Brits found the oil in Iran and it was managed by BP for quite a number of years, but staggering that the Brits put all Brits in the senior company positions, and built nice western style villages for the Brits to live in and left all the Iranian staff to live in slums!

Yes these were the blinded days of the Empire, but I could find no official statements of incorrect behaviour etc..   
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on February 16, 2009, 09:06:43 AM
More HATE campaign. This time in West Virginia. Watch the video. If you can.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/16/gay-snipers-attack-marria_n_167226.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on February 16, 2009, 10:16:36 AM
Guys,

Thanks for saying that... I thought I was going quite mad, and being overly liberal... Obama has made a few comments about Iran and building relations, but also said that Iran first has to unclench its fist... Does it...? I would have thought an apology or gesture from USA/UK would be more appropriate to get the process started...

Are your feelings general across the US?     

Has Iran ever officially apologized for the hostage crisis?
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on February 16, 2009, 10:42:19 AM
Guys,

Thanks for saying that... I thought I was going quite mad, and being overly liberal... Obama has made a few comments about Iran and building relations, but also said that Iran first has to unclench its fist... Does it...? I would have thought an apology or gesture from USA/UK would be more appropriate to get the process started...

Are your feelings general across the US?     

Has Iran ever officially apologized for the hostage crisis?


No they did not.

Moderated to fix quote
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: fritzkep on February 16, 2009, 10:52:09 AM

Has Iran ever officially apologized for the hostage crisis?


Is the Pope Lutheran?

And it's not only the West which has troubles with Iran's nuclear ambitions. The neighboring countries are not particularly encouraging of Iran developing nuclear weapons, which are not particularly defensive. An Iranian leader would not be praised for showering foreign troops on home soil with radioactive material because of the side effects it would have on the people of the homeland.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: huntinbuddy on February 16, 2009, 11:35:05 AM
Would like to say I found it "amusing" as to how Iran handled the release of the 52 American hostages they held for over 400 days, but it really wouldn't be respectful to the once held hostages to call anything about their ordeal amusing.

While I will probably step on some toes here, Carter could have ended this if he would have taken the balls to do so.  He did have at least one, if not a couple botched rescue attempts, so I have to give him credit for that.  But the crisis ended on January 19th, 1981, and the actually release of the hostages occurred the following day, January 20th; just minutes after Ronald Reagan was sworn in.

I don't think this was coincidence, for the Iranian leaders at that time had no doubt in their minds Reagan would have moved in with troops, bombers, even nukes if necessary to secure the hostages release.  In other words they recognized Reagan had the balls that Carter didn't.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on February 16, 2009, 11:55:42 AM
Actually Reagan wanted them there until the election was over. Remember we were supplying them with weapons when we shouldn't have. Iran/Contra hearings reveled this. Its funny how people choose to pick what they want to from events. It goes both ways, both Liberals and Conservatives do it. Its also funny (ironic) that the person who came up with the rescue plan that eventually failed was Ollie North. 



http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/walsh/
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on February 16, 2009, 01:08:52 PM
And it makes me wonder, and in fact actually insesnses me, as to why the West, particularly the UK and USA continue with their treatment of Iran...? And why everyone is so worried as to whether they have nuclear capacity.

Fact: The West supported terror when it supplied Sadam with weapons in the 80's.
Fact: Iran's military strategy has always been one of deterence, and they have not invaded another country in over 2 centuries.
Fact: The West tried to manipulate the Iranian Governement for the better part of the 20th Century

Sorry if this is the wrong thread, but not sure where else I could see who wanted to discuss this...

Thanks.

Part of the problem, at least for me Wayne, is that Iran reacted to imperialist politics with reactionary religion.  And that in the not too distant past it was an imperialist nation in its own right.

It is worth keeping in mind that the west is hardly the first group they've fought with or had problems with.  The Safavids fought wars with the Ottomans from the 16th through the 18th centuries.  And the Safavids were an imperialist state and fought with their neighbors (including the Afghans, with whom they still have a tenuous relationship).  Problems in Persia continued into the 20th century when the Persian Socialist Soviet Republic was established in the 1920s.  Reza Khan's interest in and cooperation with Hitler is particularly troubling - especially given the activity of the Mufti of Jerusalem at the same time.  And the Mufti is one of the key figures in the development of radical Islam and the hatred of the Jews that has taken root in the middle east - it was certainly not part of the world view of the Ottomans (regardless of what the nutters who say the want to restart the Caliphate say).

Reza Khan's activity in cooperation with the Germans is, at least in part, what lead to the invasion of the country by the British and the Soviets - and the beginning of the problems that the country has had with the west.

So yes - everything you say above is true - but the history of the region does not begin in the 80s.  And though I would have much preferred that Mohammed Mosaddeq's secular of the government of the 50s would have taken root and we would not have the Basij enforcing dress codes on the streets of Iran, that is not what happened.

What is particularly problematic for me now is that they have gone back to a style of government that pre-dates even the government of Reza Khan.  It is as nutty as the recent attempts to involve religion in government in the U.S. - and it does the people of Iran little good.  I have recently met some students at Stanford who are all too happy to be studying in the U.S.

All in all I'd say there's more than enough indignation to go around for everyone.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on February 16, 2009, 01:32:08 PM
Has Iran ever officially apologized for the hostage crisis?

You know, I don't think so.  But then again, I don't think we ever apologized to them for the CIA coup that overthrew Mosaddeq and installed the Shah and subjected them to years of torture at his hands.  So I guess there's enough blame to go around.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Zudos on February 16, 2009, 01:39:52 PM
Guys,

Thanks for saying that... I thought I was going quite mad, and being overly liberal... Obama has made a few comments about Iran and building relations, but also said that Iran first has to unclench its fist... Does it...? I would have thought an apology or gesture from USA/UK would be more appropriate to get the process started...

Are your feelings general across the US?     

Has Iran ever officially apologized for the hostage crisis?


I do not think they have apologised to any of the nations of the hostages.

But I think that at one point a US president said that 'Goodwill begets Goodwill' and then asked Iran for help with the hostages in the Lebanon because of their association with the Hezbollah. And then Iran waited for Goodwill back and when they asked, they were told that USA could not show goodwill due to their other 'Terrorist' activities...

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Zudos on February 16, 2009, 01:40:47 PM

Has Iran ever officially apologized for the hostage crisis?


Is the Pope Lutheran?

And it's not only the West which has troubles with Iran's nuclear ambitions. The neighboring countries are not particularly encouraging of Iran developing nuclear weapons, which are not particularly defensive. An Iranian leader would not be praised for showering foreign troops on home soil with radioactive material because of the side effects it would have on the people of the homeland.



Thanks Fritzie... On what basis do you say 'which are not particularly defensive'...?
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Zudos on February 16, 2009, 01:42:06 PM
Would like to say I found it "amusing" as to how Iran handled the release of the 52 American hostages they held for over 400 days, but it really wouldn't be respectful to the once held hostages to call anything about their ordeal amusing.

While I will probably step on some toes here, Carter could have ended this if he would have taken the balls to do so.  He did have at least one, if not a couple botched rescue attempts, so I have to give him credit for that.  But the crisis ended on January 19th, 1981, and the actually release of the hostages occurred the following day, January 20th; just minutes after Ronald Reagan was sworn in.

I don't think this was coincidence, for the Iranian leaders at that time had no doubt in their minds Reagan would have moved in with troops, bombers, even nukes if necessary to secure the hostages release.  In other words they recognized Reagan had the balls that Carter didn't.

So are you saying that the hostages were only released because they felt under threat that Reagan would obliterate them...?
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Zudos on February 16, 2009, 01:46:55 PM
And it makes me wonder, and in fact actually insesnses me, as to why the West, particularly the UK and USA continue with their treatment of Iran...? And why everyone is so worried as to whether they have nuclear capacity.

Fact: The West supported terror when it supplied Sadam with weapons in the 80's.
Fact: Iran's military strategy has always been one of deterence, and they have not invaded another country in over 2 centuries.
Fact: The West tried to manipulate the Iranian Governement for the better part of the 20th Century

Sorry if this is the wrong thread, but not sure where else I could see who wanted to discuss this...

Thanks.

Part of the problem, at least for me Wayne, is that Iran reacted to imperialist politics with reactionary religion.  And that in the not too distant past it was an imperialist nation in its own right.

It is worth keeping in mind that the west is hardly the first group they've fought with or had problems with.  The Safavids fought wars with the Ottomans from the 16th through the 18th centuries.  And the Safavids were an imperialist state and fought with their neighbors (including the Afghans, with whom they still have a tenuous relationship).  Problems in Persia continued into the 20th century when the Persian Socialist Soviet Republic was established in the 1920s.  Reza Khan's interest in and cooperation with Hitler is particularly troubling - especially given the activity of the Mufti of Jerusalem at the same time.  And the Mufti is one of the key figures in the development of radical Islam and the hatred of the Jews that has taken root in the middle east - it was certainly not part of the world view of the Ottomans (regardless of what the nutters who say the want to restart the Caliphate say).

Reza Khan's activity in cooperation with the Germans is, at least in part, what lead to the invasion of the country by the British and the Soviets - and the beginning of the problems that the country has had with the west.

So yes - everything you say above is true - but the history of the region does not begin in the 80s.  And though I would have much preferred that Mohammed Mosaddeq's secular of the government of the 50s would have taken root and we would not have the Basij enforcing dress codes on the streets of Iran, that is not what happened.

What is particularly problematic for me now is that they have gone back to a style of government that pre-dates even the government of Reza Khan.  It is as nutty as the recent attempts to involve religion in government in the U.S. - and it does the people of Iran little good.  I have recently met some students at Stanford who are all too happy to be studying in the U.S.

All in all I'd say there's more than enough indignation to go around for everyone.



Thanks for that Michael... The preceding history, particularly the affiliation with Germany plays a part... I suppose unlike Italy and Japan, Iran did not try to make amends following WWII, but whether they had a chance or not with the Angelo Russian treaty deciding their political fate or not, will never be known.

Also I quite agree about religious government... It tends to evoke the fanatics. I have no idea what the Koran says about ruling nations. I know the Bible recommends steering clear of politics.   
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on February 16, 2009, 01:50:00 PM
Has Iran ever officially apologized for the hostage crisis?

You know, I don't think so.  But then again, I don't think we ever apologized to them for the CIA coup that overthrew Mosaddeq and installed the Shah and subjected them to years of torture at his hands.  So I guess there's enough blame to go around.

In 2000, at a state dinner in Washington, Secretary of State Madeline Albright directly apologized for specific past American actions toward Iran, from our role in orchestrating the overthrow of Prime Minister Mohammed Mosaddeq, to our backing of the Shah, to our backing of Iraq in its war with Iran. Albright also highlighted President Clinton's personal belief that America "must bear its full share of responsibility for the problems that have arisen in U.S.-Iranian relations."

http://articles.latimes.com/2000/mar/18/news/mn-10114 (http://articles.latimes.com/2000/mar/18/news/mn-10114)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Zudos on February 16, 2009, 01:50:43 PM
Has Iran ever officially apologized for the hostage crisis?

You know, I don't think so.  But then again, I don't think we ever apologized to them for the CIA coup that overthrew Mosaddeq and installed the Shah and subjected them to years of torture at his hands.  So I guess there's enough blame to go around.

The hostages in Tehran were taken because US gov't allowed the Shah to receive medicial treatment in USA... I am torn on my opinion of this, as can you imagine the Wests response to an Islamic republic giving public hospitality to someone like Saddam or Bin Laden? But on the other hand surely humanitarian morals should compel us to allow anyone to seek medical treatment? Even the worst kind of criminal should not surely be deprived of basic human rights...?     
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: fritzkep on February 16, 2009, 01:50:56 PM
Hey Wayne! Nuclear weapons are pretty blunt to be effective defensive weapons. They have some deterence value, but when you start shooting them off in your own country as a defensive measure, they destroy more than conventional weapons would. And having nuclear weapons makes one's neighbors nervous and more likely to stage preemptive attacks to deter deployment of the nuclear. It could lead to a rather vicious cycle.

And shooting them off toward neighboring countries would not be construed by the neighbors as defensive.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Zudos on February 16, 2009, 01:53:08 PM
Has Iran ever officially apologized for the hostage crisis?

You know, I don't think so.  But then again, I don't think we ever apologized to them for the CIA coup that overthrew Mosaddeq and installed the Shah and subjected them to years of torture at his hands.  So I guess there's enough blame to go around.

In 2000, at a state dinner in Washington, Secretary of State Madeline Albright directly apologized for specific past American actions toward Iran, from our role in orchestrating the overthrow of Prime Minister Mohammed Mosaddeq, to our backing of the Shah, to our backing of Iraq in its war with Iran. Albright also highlighted President Clinton's personal belief that America "must bear its full share of responsibility for the problems that have arisen in U.S.-Iranian relations."

http://articles.latimes.com/2000/mar/18/news/mn-10114 (http://articles.latimes.com/2000/mar/18/news/mn-10114)

You know John I did not know this and neither did the documentary cover it... Hmmm maybe its not as unbiased as I thought. There is a 3rd part this week however...

Was 2000 before or after President Bush declared Iran one of the evil terrorist nations of the world...?   
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on February 16, 2009, 01:55:57 PM
In 2000, at a state dinner in Washington, Secretary of State Madeline Albright directly apologized for specific past American actions toward Iran, from our role in orchestrating the overthrow of Prime Minister Mohammed Mosaddeq, to our backing of the Shah, to our backing of Iraq in its war with Iran. Albright also highlighted President Clinton's personal belief that America "must bear its full share of responsibility for the problems that have arisen in U.S.-Iranian relations."

http://articles.latimes.com/2000/mar/18/news/mn-10114 (http://articles.latimes.com/2000/mar/18/news/mn-10114)

Oh good!  Well, time for them to pony up and apologize, I'd say.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: fritzkep on February 16, 2009, 01:56:17 PM
Before. Bush became president in January 2001.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Zudos on February 16, 2009, 01:56:53 PM
Hey Wayne! Nuclear weapons are pretty blunt to be effective defensive weapons. They have some deterence value, but when you start shooting them off in your own country as a defensive measure, they destroy more than conventional weapons would. And having nuclear weapons makes one's neighbors nervous and more likely to stage preemptive attacks to deter deployment of the nuclear. It could lead to a rather vicious cycle.



I see what you mean Fritz... Thanks for the clarification...

Do you support Global nuclear disarmament?
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Zudos on February 16, 2009, 01:57:51 PM
Before. Bush became president in January 2001.



So did Bush reverse the good meaning with his rather propogandic anti Iran statements...? 
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on February 16, 2009, 01:58:02 PM

Was 2000 before or after President Bush declared Iran one of the evil terrorist nations of the world...?   

"Axis of evil" is a term coined by United States President George W. Bush in his State of the Union Address on January 29, 2002 in order to describe governments that he accused of helping terrorism and seeking weapons of mass destruction. President Bush named Iran, Iraq and North Korea in his speech. President Bush's presidency has been marked by this notion as a justification for the War on Terror.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_of_evil
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: fritzkep on February 16, 2009, 02:03:01 PM
Do you support Global nuclear disarmament?

Yes, with the proviso that it is truly global, that a country can't keep inspectors away on the grounds that it harms their sovereignty. Having said that, I would trust the original nuclear powers of the US, Russia, the UK and France more than the more recent members of the club.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on February 16, 2009, 02:07:45 PM
You know John I did not know this and neither did the documentary cover it... Hmmm maybe its not as unbiased as I thought. There is a 3rd part this week however...

Was 2000 before or after President Bush declared Iran one of the evil terrorist nations of the world...?   

Before Wayne.  This was when Clinton was still in office.  One difference between the Mossadegh incident and the hostages was that Mossadegh was overthrown by a well-formed government, whereas the hostages were held by militias in the beginning of the formation of the Iranian government.  It was a group of students who took over the American embassy.  It should also be pointed out that there were leftist elements (later persecuted by the religious elements) who were also involved in the takeover - people who are not associated with the government and who would probably have fought the release by religious authorities.

It doesn't excuse them - but it helps to understand the confusion that surrounded the hostages.

And, btw, thanks again Canada:

http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=ArchivedFeatures&Params=A274
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Zudos on February 16, 2009, 02:09:01 PM
Do you support Global nuclear disarmament?

Yes, with the proviso that it is truly global, that a country can't keep inspectors away on the grounds that it harms their sovereignty. Having said that, I would trust the original nuclear powers of the US, Russia, the UK and France more than the more recent members of the club.



I think according to Wikipedia that the countries with weapons of mass destruction are:


Albania
Algeria
Argentina
Australia
Brazil
Bulgaria
Canada
PR China
France
Germany
India
Iran
Iraq
Israel Japan
Netherlands
North Korea
Pakistan
Poland
Romania
Russia
Saudi Arabia
South Africa
Sweden
Syria
Taiwan (ROC)
United Kingdom
United States

To me I think that before anyone can say who can or who can not develop weapons etc, then they need to be getting rid of their own on a permanent basis... 
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: fritzkep on February 16, 2009, 02:11:44 PM
Then we're at a stalemate, because few countries would be willing to open themselves to potential attack as a goodwill gesture.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Zudos on February 16, 2009, 02:14:45 PM
Then we're at a stalemate, because few countries would be willing to open themselves to potential attack as a goodwill gesture.



I know Fritz its a bloody never ending vicious circle as no one has the right to tell another country not to develop weapons to starve off potential attacks, when they have them themselves... 
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on February 16, 2009, 02:39:15 PM
I think according to Wikipedia that the countries with weapons of mass destruction are:

Albania

Albania has weapons of mass destruction?  ???

I wonder what they mean by this.  I can't imagine that it's anything very significant or we would have heard about this from Belgrade.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Zudos on February 16, 2009, 02:45:12 PM
I think according to Wikipedia that the countries with weapons of mass destruction are:

Albania

Albania has weapons of mass destruction?  ???

I wonder what they mean by this.  I can't imagine that it's anything very significant or we would have heard about this from Belgrade.

I took the list from Wikipedia... I was also surprised about Bulgaria!

But maybe that opens another can of worms... Wikipedia GRRRRRRR - Too many posters putting incorrect information on there...
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on February 16, 2009, 02:51:03 PM
I took the list from Wikipedia... I was also surprised about Bulgaria!

But maybe that opens another can of worms... Wikipedia GRRRRRRR - Too many posters putting incorrect information on there...

It turns out they're talking about chemical agents:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albania_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction

But apparently they've been destroyed.  Rather hard to track, those chemical weapons.  Ask George Bush....
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on February 16, 2009, 02:52:02 PM
What surprised me was Sweden. A neutral country.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Zudos on February 16, 2009, 02:59:55 PM
Rather hard to track, those chemical weapons.  Ask George Bush....

 :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Zudos on February 16, 2009, 03:00:28 PM
What surprised me was Sweden. A neutral country.

That is rather odd Tom...

Hmmm. Lets just ignore my list.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on February 16, 2009, 04:03:27 PM
Historians rate best - and worst - presidents ever
Posted by Jeff Mapes, The Oregonian February 15, 2009 16:22PM

Just in time for Presidents Day, C-Span surveyed historians to come up with an exhaustive ranking of all 42 former presidents. To the surprise of no one who paid the slightest bit of attention to his 200th birthday last week, Abe Lincoln easily won the top spot just as he did the last time C-Span went through this exercise in 2000.

Franklin D. Roosevelt, who has been taking a lot of posthumous hits lately from conservatives dissing how he handled the Great Depression, has slipped from second to third. Since 2000, Ronald Reagan, who famously said government often was the problem, eased ahead of Lyndon B. Johnson, who hugely expanded the reach of the federal government, to take the 10th spot.

Are the conservatives ascending?

Not necessarily. Bill Clinton has climbed from 21st in 2000 to 15th in the latest survey, which tells you that presidents maybe look better in retrospect. George W. Bush has to hope that. He's down in the cellar at No. 36.

continues (with lists) here:

http://blog.oregonlive.com/mapesonpolitics/2009/02/historians_rate_best_president.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: fritzkep on February 16, 2009, 04:35:27 PM
It wouldn't bother me if that were W's high point. I think he just outdid Millard Fillmore, right? Sounds about right.

And despite his rhetoric, Reagan expanded the reach of the Federal government also.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on February 16, 2009, 05:12:51 PM
It wouldn't bother me if that were W's high point. I think he just outdid Millard Fillmore, right? Sounds about right.

And despite his rhetoric, Reagan expanded the reach of the Federal government also.

Well I have a little problem with #10 too Fritz.  He ignored the AIDS crisis here and withdrew funding for AIDS organizations overseas because they didn't fit his ideological bent.  So while it can probably be said he had a lot to do with the fall of Communism, it can also be said that he is directly connected to the decimation that occurred in Africa, India and Southeast Asia related to AIDS.

Plus he oversaw military campaigns in Central America which have lead to the explosion (sometimes quite literally) of Mara Salvatrucha in the U.S.  Talk about your law of unintended consequences.  And the rise of gangs also coincided with a wave of cocaine coming into the U.S. via Panama (and supervised by Manuel Noriega and his CIA connections) and the rise of the Medellín Cartel.

Then there are little matters like the support of the 'freedom fighters' in Afghanistan that Wayne referred to earlier and the invasion of Grenada and the stationing of the multinational force in Lebanon (following Israel's invasion of Lebanon in 1982) that lead to the Beirut Barracks Bombing of 1983.

He's not my favorite.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: fritzkep on February 16, 2009, 05:15:45 PM
Nor mine, Michael. I was just pointing out that those who decry the expansion of the Federal government are among the ones who expanded it the most. And not always for the benefit of the American people, or other peoples, but for their small circle of friends.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on February 16, 2009, 05:36:56 PM
Nor mine, Michael. I was just pointing out that those who decry the expansion of the Federal government are among the ones who expanded it the most. And not always for the benefit of the American people, or other peoples, but for their small circle of friends.

It certainly didn't benefit a whole lot of people who died in the United States during his administration:

"Even the most cynical critics of the Reagan administration were staggered when the Office of Management and Budget released its proposed AIDS budget for the 1986 fiscal year.  Not only had the administration not increased AIDS funding but the budget called for reducing AIDS spending from the current level of $96 million to $85.5 million in the next fiscal year.  The 10 percent reduction would be felt across the board in AIDS research but most heavily at the CDC, where funds would be cut back 20 percent to just $18.7 million.  The government's planned appropriation for education aimed specifically at the gay community was $250,000, which, again, was to be channeled through the U.S. Conference of Mayors in an effort to ensure that no federal agency was in the business of telling gays how to perform sodomy safely."

Randy Shilts, "And the Band Played On", pg. 525
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on February 17, 2009, 06:50:58 AM
What surprised me was Sweden. A neutral country.

That is rather odd Tom...

Hmmm. Lets just ignore my list.


No thats not it. But maybe Sweden has Nuclear Weapons, since they use lots of nuclear power for their electricity. The thing is Sweden is considered the strongest Military power of the Scandinavia countires. They must have to have some power to remain neutral.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on February 17, 2009, 01:37:02 PM
Here is the podcast of the interview with Daniel Nicoletta, who worked in the camera shop with Harvey Milk.  He is responding to questions that are asked both by the list and by myself:

(http://www.cyberears.com/images/cyberears_link_image.jpg) (http://www.cyberears.com/index.php/Browse/playaudio/5263)
Michael Flanagan interviews Dan Nicoletta (http://www.cyberears.com/index.php/Browse/playaudio/5263)

And a link to Dan's photographs at Uncle Donald's:

http://thecastro.net/street/memoriespage/nicoletta/nicoletta.html

The podcast runs 1 hour 9 minutes in length.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Zudos on February 17, 2009, 01:50:03 PM
What surprised me was Sweden. A neutral country.

That is rather odd Tom...

Hmmm. Lets just ignore my list.


No thats not it. But maybe Sweden has Nuclear Weapons, since they use lots of nuclear power for their electricity. The thing is Sweden is considered the strongest Military power of the Scandinavia countires. They must have to have some power to remain neutral.

I see what you mean Tom... I will ask Jari our resident Nordic Expert! :)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on February 17, 2009, 09:04:16 PM
Aids is China's deadliest disease
By Jill McGivering
BBC News
Page last updated at 03:35 GMT, Wednesday, 18 February 2009

Chinese officials have said that HIV/Aids was the leading cause of death last year, compared with other infectious diseases.

It is thought to be the first time this has happened.

A report by the country's state media said HIV/Aids had led to the deaths of almost 7,000 people in the first nine months of 2008.

The number of deaths caused by tuberculosis and rabies fell back into second and third place.

The numbers are increasing dramatically - China's Ministry of Health say that until three years ago, fewer than 8,000 people altogether had died from HIV/Aids.

By last year, the total had risen to five times that many.

Data on HIV in China are still unreliable. Official reporting of cases does seem to have improved.

The central authorities seem more willing to recognise HIV as a public health crisis and address it with education campaigns.

But there are still concerns that officials at local and provincial level are under-reporting, either by mistake or because they think it's not in their interest to show rises.

This latest news comes as the spread of HIV in China has entered a dangerous new phase.

Initially it was concentrated in high-risk populations, injecting drug users in particular.

Infection from contaminated blood transfusions was also common.

More sex

But now the main cause of transmission is thought to be unsafe sex.

China is still a deeply conservative society - but it is also going through a period of rapid social change.

Greater freedom of movement means millions of migrant workers have left small communities to enjoy the anonymity of cities.

Male workers, away from their families, have more sexual opportunity.

Prostitution has increased. Premarital sex is also becoming more acceptable.

On Tuesday, the World Health Organisation warned of a steep rise in HIV amongst Asian men who have sex with men, unless prevention programmes targeting them were greatly improved

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7896133.stm
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on February 18, 2009, 07:28:09 AM
Look who owes back taxes. Palin. Imagine that.


http://www.adn.com/palin/story/693695.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: huntinbuddy on February 18, 2009, 10:00:28 AM
Look who owes back taxes. Palin. Imagine that.


http://www.adn.com/palin/story/693695.html

Cool!  She'll be a perfect match for the Obama cabinet!
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on February 18, 2009, 10:02:32 AM
Now a Billionare fled the country so he wouldn't face fraud charges. Get him here and cut his nuts off. I'm sick and tired of this. WE will never have stimulus with all this crap.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/18/r-allen-smith-missing-fed_n_167820.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: huntinbuddy on February 18, 2009, 10:07:15 AM
I don't know Tom, cutting his nuts off would be ....well, quite stimulating for sure.

I suspect we are going to hear more and more of these frauds as the stock market continues to tank.  Folks who bought these crazy securities or whatever, if they get uneasy, they cash them in; only to find the money is not there.  Sort of like my 401K  ;D
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on February 18, 2009, 12:00:33 PM
Look who owes back taxes. Palin. Imagine that.


http://www.adn.com/palin/story/693695.html

Cool!  She'll be a perfect match for the Obama cabinet!
(http://www.dialbforblog.com/archives/208/batman_kapow.jpg)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on February 18, 2009, 12:05:24 PM
Obama's plan for the forclosure crisis. Not impressed. All this money going everywhere will not do any bit of good with the same CEO's running these businesses. Obama is too trusting. He should have the approach that all is corrupt, everyone and everything.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/18/obamas-foreclosure-plan-s_n_167812.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on February 18, 2009, 03:03:34 PM
Now a Billionare fled the country so he wouldn't face fraud charges. Get him here and cut his nuts off.

I think you've been spending too much time around Jesse Jackson, Tom.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on February 19, 2009, 07:28:37 AM
Now this is stupid. Some GOP governors don't want to take the stimulus money. I say good let your states go down in flames. They will take it in the end, but the story will be how they stood by their morals. Just watch. Americans have start to waking up.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/18/gop-governors-consider-tu_n_168099.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on February 19, 2009, 10:58:18 AM
Cal just past their budget. So, how do the Californians feel about it?


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/19/california-legislators-ap_n_168206.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on February 19, 2009, 11:41:17 AM
Cal just past their budget. So, how do the Californians feel about it?

It's about frickin' time.

Now I can file my tax return and maybe get back more than an I.O.U.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on February 19, 2009, 12:16:37 PM
Here's what one of the "commenters" to that article posted about it:

Quote
Since it only takes a simple majority to amend our state constitution to
deprive me of my civil rights, I demand we take a vote to obliterate the 2/3
majority clause to pass a state budget. I never never NEVER want to go
through this nonsense again.

If Republican legislators want to hold the state hostage to their
antediluvian ideology they should have a MAJORITY to back it up
.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on February 19, 2009, 01:06:35 PM
Cal just past their budget. So, how do the Californians feel about it?

Quote
California Passes State Budget
The package included a combination of spending cuts, tax increases and borrowing, intended to close a projected multibillion dollar deficit and avert fiscal disaster for the state.  Senate leaders secured the final vote needed from moderate Republican Abel Maldonado in late-night negotiations by agreeing to his demands for election changes, government reform, budget cuts and removal of a gas tax increase, giving them the two-thirds vote needed to pass the package.

Election changes:
To win Maldonado's support, legislators also agreed to ask voters to revise the state's constitution to allow open primaries for legislative, congressional and gubernatorial elections.

The people of the state voted three separate times over the years to have open Primary elections for Federal elections and all three times it was overturned in the courts saying the parties could have whatever rules they wanted about that, so even if voters approve it (again) I don't see why the same wouldn't apply to the state elections.

Government reform:
Leaders also met Maldonado's demands to freeze legislators' salaries in deficit budget years and to eliminate new office furniture budgeted for the state controller.

That sounds reasonable.

Budget cuts:
Something I posted elsewhere today:
Quote
Cuts hurt
My friends boyfriend works for the State of California in a program that takes children out of abusive homes, homes where the parents are drug addicted and such, and works with them, hopefully toward a better life.  He got word yesterday the whole program is being shut down due to the budget problems.  What happens to those kids?  Well, they either get absorbed into another program which isn't the same kind of one they were getting help in, or they get sent back to the families from which they came.  Not only is he losing his job, they have to go tell all these kids about this, kids they've come to know and care for.  And try to make them understand it is not because they aren't valued.  OMG, just hearing about this breaks my heart, but to have to go through it, well, this guy was more upset about the children and what they'll go through now than losing his job.  Completely in tears because he knows what will happen now.  Ugh.

Removal of a gas tax increase:
The budget originally included a proposal to raise the price of gas in California by 14 cents a gallon.

As painful as that might be, the gas is nearly $1 lower than it was at the height of the increases last year here in California.  This tax might've been the one to get Californians to think about how much they spend on gas again.  Now that the price has come down the consumption level is off the charts again.  I didn't necessarily think this particular increase was the worst idea. 

When Schwarzenegger came to office during the height of a budget surplus (Really?  When was that?), like all good Republicans he wanted to return the surplus to "the people" as it's their money, and eliminate the $32 a year car registration increase that consumers had been paying for years.  I thought that was a bad idea because people were "used" to paying it and once you take it away...  Now, when consumers are afraid of any extra spending is when that tax would be most helpful, but try re-instating it now.  I bet Arnold would love to take that back now.

The 1 cent increase in the sales tax bugs me more than the 14 cent increase in gas.  In L.A. County our sales tax will be just shy of 10%!  It's like tithing to the government.  I wish they'd do it like they do in England.  The price you see on something is the price you pay, and it includes the tax in it.  If something is $27.59 that's what you pay.  Here you have to get out your calculators and add on, add on, add on...  It's just a frame of mind, but...
(And in L.A. that would be $30.28)

To get State Senator Ashburn's vote lawmakers also agreed to help the horse racing industry in his district _ and throughout the state _ by using $32 million in state funding each year to offset maintenance fees at fairgrounds.

Horse racing is gambling.  Great!  We are subsidizing gambling.
(http://www.saudeanimal.com.br/imagens/mr_ed3.gif)
"Thanks, Assburn, I knew I could count on you."

In 1998 when the people of California voted to allow Indian Gaming all over the state, without ANY  provisions that the state require tax revenue out of them, I thought people were absolutely nuts.  They bought into the argument that "the Indians have been mistreated forever so I couldn't care less or it doesn't bother me at all that they pay no taxes on all that gambling money."  They tried to change that a bit a few years ago with a wimpy bill to get some revenue--decided on by the tribes themselves (!) -- another instance of people not thinking about the long term implications.

And that's what this Californian initially thinks of it before knowing much else about what's in it.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on February 19, 2009, 03:56:46 PM
Cal just past their budget. So, how do the Californians feel about it?


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/19/california-legislators-ap_n_168206.html

It reminds me of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ULZwzF9s5A&feature=related
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: doodler on February 20, 2009, 12:57:00 AM

The 1 cent increase in the sales tax bugs me more than the 14 cent increase in gas.  In L.A. County our sales tax will be just shy of 10%! 

So? Ours has been that high for years and we have sales tax on EVERYTHING. But, on the other hand, we don't have a state income tax....
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on February 20, 2009, 06:40:58 AM
The right uses an ad with Jesus in it to attack the stimulus package.   :o


http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0209/19055.HTML
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on February 20, 2009, 08:51:40 AM
The 1 cent increase in the sales tax bugs me more than the 14 cent increase in gas.  In L.A. County our sales tax will be just shy of 10%! 

So? Ours has been that high for years and we have sales tax on EVERYTHING. But, on the other hand, we don't have a state income tax....

I would be interested in knowing if you had a property tax revolt in your state similar to what we had in California, doodler.  In California the reliance on sales tax, gas tax and state income tax is directly related to the cap on property taxes which was put in place in 1978.  Wikipedia provides a brief overview:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_13_(1978)

It has had an interesting effect on education in the state:

http://www.ed-data.k12.ca.us/Articles/CalRankings.asp
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on February 20, 2009, 10:20:12 AM
OctoMom's Million Dollar Crib!?

Octo is there right now ... the house is in Whittier, California. It has 4 bedrooms, 2 1/2 bathrooms and a pool with no safety gates. Perfect for 14 kids.

A real estate source tells TMZ the owner canceled showings today specifically because Octo wanted to see it. She needs it because the house she's living in now may be on its way to the auction block -- as in foreclosure.

http://www.tmz.com/2009/02/19/octomom-house-million-dollar/ (http://www.tmz.com/2009/02/19/octomom-house-million-dollar/)

Caution: Consider the source
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on February 20, 2009, 12:11:39 PM
I heard about his on other news sources as well.

That's about 3 or 4 people per bedroom.

Seven for each bathroom
(the 1/2 bathroom is for the half-brained mother).

I really like seeing interviews with the octomom's mother.
She is calm in the face of this all, but yet tells the truth--she
displays love for her daughter and grandkids, but emphatically
states that she disapproves of her daughters handling of her life.
Maybe she's an enabler, I don't know, but at least she is not out there
defending her daughter like alot of people would who are attacking her.
She even said that because of her daughter's decisions she "is going
to be punished for the rest of her life."  You can tell on brief interviews
when reporters are following octomom around that she is absolutely
clueless about what she has done and what is in store for her.
Now I see Oprah is having octomom's father on her show.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: WhenPigsFly on February 20, 2009, 01:16:45 PM
You can tell on brief interviews
when reporters are following octomom around that she is absolutely
clueless about what she has done and what is in store for her.
Now I see Oprah is having octomom's father on her show.


If you want some "believe it or not" moments, check out Suleman's Twitter account.  So far, my favorite is this which reveals her good parenting skills  (and which she Tweeted at about approx 3:30 AM):

 
Quote
I'm up late. My kids asked for a bedtime story so I had to look something up on YouTube for them to watch.

 
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on February 20, 2009, 03:36:23 PM
The Catholic Crusade Against a Mythical Abortion Bill

Quote
The U.S. Catholic Church's crusade against the Freedom of Choice Act (FOCA) has all the hallmarks of a well-oiled lobbying campaign. A national postcard campaign is flooding the White House and congressional offices with messages opposing FOCA, and Catholic bishops have made defeating the abortion rights legislation a top priority. In the most recent effort to stop the bill, Cardinal Justin Rigali of Philadelphia sent a letter to every member of Congress imploring them to "please oppose FOCA."

There is only one hitch. Congress isn't about to pass the Freedom of Choice Act — because no such bill has been introduced in the current Congress.

At a time when the United States is gripped by economic uncertainty and faces serious challenges in hot spots around the globe, some American Catholics are finding it both curious and troubling that their church has launched a major campaign against a piece of legislation that doesn't exist and wouldn't have much chance of becoming law even if it did. To many critics, it feels like the legislative equivalent of the dog that didn't bark.
Quote
When Jan. 22 came and went without a Freedom of Choice Act becoming law, the USCCB's Committee on Pro-Life Activities announced a nationwide postcard campaign to blanket congressional offices and the White House with appeals to stop FOCA. Anti-FOCA groups on Facebook soon had more than 150,000 members and added thousands more each day. Priests started preaching against the legislation, and churches began circulating petitions to oppose its passage.

In the midst of all this activity, the fact that there was no Freedom of Choice Act before the 111th Congress went largely unnoticed and unmentioned.


http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1880451,00.html?xid=rss-nation-cnn (http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1880451,00.html?xid=rss-nation-cnn)

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: fritzkep on February 20, 2009, 03:39:45 PM
Doubtlessly so they can claim credit when it doesn't pass.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on February 20, 2009, 03:49:34 PM
Well if you've been waiting for someone to show up for 2000 years I suppose waiting for a bill to appear fits right into your world view.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: doodler on February 21, 2009, 07:43:36 AM
The 1 cent increase in the sales tax bugs me more than the 14 cent increase in gas.  In L.A. County our sales tax will be just shy of 10%! 

So? Ours has been that high for years and we have sales tax on EVERYTHING. But, on the other hand, we don't have a state income tax....

I would be interested in knowing if you had a property tax revolt in your state similar to what we had in California, doodler.  In California the reliance on sales tax, gas tax and state income tax is directly related to the cap on property taxes which was put in place in 1978.  Wikipedia provides a brief overview:


I think, at least in my part of the state, property tax is considered very low compared to the rest of the country. But the quality of health care and education are also very low and out here in the country we don't have a good many of the "services" you find in the city.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on February 21, 2009, 12:49:45 PM
If you want some "believe it or not" moments, check out Suleman's Twitter account.  So far, my favorite is this which reveals her good parenting skills  (and which she Tweeted at about approx 3:30 AM):
 
I'm up late. My kids asked for a bedtime story so I had to look something up on YouTube for them to watch.

Glad to know her kids get to bed at a decent hour.
She should just wire all the kids up now.

I have a bedtime story for them:

"There was an old woman who lived in shoe.
She had so many children she didn't know what to do..."

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on February 21, 2009, 01:03:07 PM
The Catholic Crusade Against a Mythical Abortion Bill
Quote
The U.S. Catholic Church's crusade against the Freedom of Choice Act (FOCA) has all the hallmarks of a well-oiled lobbying campaign.
[snip]
There is only one hitch. Congress isn't about to pass the Freedom of Choice Act — because no such bill has been introduced in the current Congress.
[snip]
In the midst of all this activity, the fact that there was no Freedom of Choice Act before the 111th Congress went largely unnoticed and unmentioned.


http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1880451,00.html?xid=rss-nation-cnn (http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1880451,00.html?xid=rss-nation-cnn)

Another example of the priorities of love from religious organizations.

Since the passage of Prop 8 I have spent a bit of time on some religious
websites and links and there is a distinct "the sky is falling" attitude about
many of the articles and from many of the people who reply to the sites.

The other day I mentioned somewhere about a guy that is suing a college, or
the professor, saying he was not allowed to give his views about Prop 8 from
a supposed religious standpoint.  Without knowing ANY of the facts of this
case, including what would seem to be the most important thing--WHAT
EXACTLY WAS SAID by this student to have him treated the way he was, a
California Christianity site had posted an article about the religious intolerance
of this act and the people who replied to it were all up in arms calling for the
head of everyone to do with the college and the rest who support them.

If you questioned this idea of innocence before guilt, your post was not
added.

It seems the way of life for a lot of religious groups is to live your life
being offended.  And to find offense where there is none or to find it before you
even know the facts.  To dismiss those who disagree, even though they may
be right or even if they have contrary facts.  Even if they have a point!

And the majority of these people wonder why they aren't taken so seriously?
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on February 21, 2009, 02:22:49 PM
A few years ago my friend Maureen invited me to go with her to a big religious event in Saginaw, MI

She had a client who was a member of the church that was sponsoring it.

This was a sort of rally by the mostly black churches in Saginaw as a response and call to action over the increasing gang and drug related violence that was happening in that city.

I was a little hesitant at first, but then when I heard that one of my gay friends was going to be singing with his choir I changed my mind.

Most of the event was pretty much focused on the idea that the answer to the problem was prayer. A lot of the music was good, especially my friends choir.

But during the last half hour the keynote speaker, a very well known preacher from out of state, whipped the crowd into a frenzy. They hadn't been very motivated or excited for the previous hour and a half.

He didn't offer any solutions to the violence and killing that was going on. He got them all worked up with a tirade about gay and lesbian marriage. And this was after Michigan passed the anti-marriage amendment.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on February 23, 2009, 12:51:09 PM
Female candidates line up for 2010
 Josh Kraushaar Josh Kraushaar   – Mon Feb 23, 4:32 am ET

A slew of formidable female candidates, mostly Democrats, are lining up to run for the Senate in 2010, enough to raise the prospect of a surge of women into a chamber that currently has just 17 women senators.

Even at this early point in the election cycle, two prominent statewide female officeholders have announced their campaigns in key battleground states and at least 10 other experienced female candidates — ranging from state officials to former CEOs to members of Congress— are considering bids for the Senate.

“This is really unprecedented for leading female candidates jumping in,” said Karen O’Connor, director of the Women and Politics Institute at American University.

“It really is a landmark year because there’s a farm team now,” O’Connor said. “Now you have mayors, congresswomen, secretaries of state; they’re waiting in the wings, and they’re not going to sit back any longer.”

In Missouri, Secretary of State Robin Carnahan has already received the blessing of the Democratic establishment and is not expected to face serious primary opposition in the race to succeed retiring GOP Sen. Kit Bond.

Carnahan, who hails from one of Missouri’s most famous political families, won over 1.74 million votes in her secretary of state race last year, the most votes for any office in state history. She could end up facing former GOP state Treasurer Sarah Steelman, who is planning to challenge Rep. Roy Blunt (R-Mo.) for the Republican nomination.

In Ohio, where Secretary of State Jennifer Brunner is running to succeed retiring Sen. George Voinovich, a victory would make her the state’s first female senator.

The unusually high number of Senate special elections, open seats and potentially vulnerable incumbents is playing a role in attracting the interest of female talent.

In two states where governors have passed over them as possible appointees to vacant seats, veteran members of Congress are mulling over special election primary challenges.

continues:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20090223/pl_politico/19157
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on February 23, 2009, 01:13:44 PM
CBS just announce that the Democrats are inherit bad people Time to boycot.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ira-forman/cbs-news-pick-claimed-dem_b_168688.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: WhenPigsFly on February 23, 2009, 02:41:54 PM
CBS just announce that the Democrats are inherit bad people Time to boycot.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ira-forman/cbs-news-pick-claimed-dem_b_168688.html

I can't believe I'm sticking up for any corporate media ... but CBS didn't say Dems are bad.  Double check the article.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on February 23, 2009, 02:53:48 PM
CBS just announce that the Democrats are inherit bad people Time to boycot.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ira-forman/cbs-news-pick-claimed-dem_b_168688.html

I can't believe I'm sticking up for any corporate media ... but CBS didn't say Dems are bad.  Double check the article.


A decade ago, I debated Ballabon in New York. I represented the Democratic Jewish community while he spoke on behalf of Republican Jews. During the debate, Ballabon claimed that, after his most recent job in Washington, he became convinced that Democrats are inherently bad people and Republicans are fundamentally good people.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Zudos on February 23, 2009, 03:17:31 PM
A British resident detained at Guantanamo Bay for more than four years has said he is "extraordinarily happy to be home" in the UK.

Ethiopian-born Binyam Mohamed, 30, was released on Monday afternoon after he landed at RAF Northolt in London and underwent questioning by police.

Mr Mohamed says he was tortured while in custody on suspicion of terrorism.

He said his worst moment was when he realised his alleged torturers were receiving material from UK agents.

Mr Mohamed arrived at lunchtime after a nine hour flight from the US-owned detention camp in Cuba.

'Horrific nightmare'

He was questioned for nearly five hours, before being driven off to an unknown destination arranged for him by his legal team.

The Home Office said he would be given temporary admission until a decision is made on whether he can stay permanently in the UK.

Col Yvonne Bradley, the US military lawyer who has worked for Mr Mohamed's release, told a press conference he had lost a lot of weight and would need time to recover from his prison ordeal.



Mohamed's Lawyer Clive Stafford-Smith: 'Binyam Mohamed has nothing to hide'
Clive Stafford Smith, director of legal charity Reprieve which represented Mr Mohamed, said his client was now looking forward to recovering in peace and to spending time with his sister, who he had not seen for seven years.

Mr Stafford Smith said "He [Binyam Mohamed] is just extremely happy now. He comes out of Guantanamo extremely grateful for all the support that he's had in a very dark time."

He added: "He's not angry, he's sad, he's lost seven years of his life... I think he's just very grateful to Britain for having him back.

"He just wants to go to a place we've got him for tonight where he can be by himself with his sister and he can try to get his life together again."

But Mr Stafford Smith also said Britain was in part culpable for abuse suffered by Mr Mohamed.

He said: "Britain knew he was being abused and left him there and he ended up going to Morocco for two years of the most horrific nightmare imaginable.

  The very people who I had hoped would come to my rescue, I later realised, had allied themselves with my abusers


"The least we owe to him is to give him his home back because he lost his home due to that process."

In an earlier statement Mr Mohamed said the worst moment of his ordeal was when he released British intelligence agents were feeding information to his torturers.

He said in the statement: "I have met with British intelligence in Pakistan. I had been open with them. Yet the very people who I had hoped would come to my rescue, I later realised, had allied themselves with my abusers."

Foreign Secretary David Miliband said he was pleased Mr Mohamed had returned to the UK.

'Dirty bomb plot'

He said: "We very much welcome President Obama's commitment to close Guantanamo Bay and I see today's return of Binyam Mohamed as the first step towards that shared goal."

A Foreign Office spokesman said the allegations that British officials were complicit in Mr Mohamed's alleged torture were currently being examined by the Attorney General.

He stressed the allegations about torture were raised with the US authorities a year ago and "discussions were ongoing".

Mr Mohamed was held in captivity for a total of seven years - four of them in Guantanamo - after being arrested in Pakistan in 2002. He had lived in the UK from the age of 15.

 
Mr Mohamed, a British resident, claims he was tortured

The US had accused Mr Mohamed of involvement in a plot to detonate a "dirty bomb" in America, but the charges were dropped in October last year.

The US Department of Justice said that his release was "consistent with the national security and foreign policy interests of the United States and the interests of justice".

Earlier this year Mr Mohamed went on a month-long hunger strike at Guantanamo and his legal team said he was "close to starvation".

But last weekend he was declared well enough to travel back to the UK by a team of British officials who had visited him.

His lawyers insist he poses no risk to the UK.

One other UK resident, Shaker Abdur-Raheem Aamer, remains in Guantanamo Bay after being detained in Afghanistan in 2001.

Two other Guantanamo inmates claim to have been living in the UK prior to their detention, but those claims are disputed.




Whats everyone's view of Guatanamo?
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on February 25, 2009, 11:49:44 AM
Whats everyone's view of Guatanamo?

It's a horror show.  Close it down and turn it into a Sandals resort.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on February 25, 2009, 11:51:02 AM
U.S. salmonella outbreak count hits 666 people sickened
6 mins ago

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – An outbreak of salmonella food poisoning traced to peanut products has sickened 666 people and is continuing despite one of the biggest food recalls in U.S. history, health officials said on Tuesday.

But the outbreak of salmonella is still only linked to nine deaths, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said in a statement.

"To date, 19 clusters of infections in five states have been reported in schools and other institutions, such as long-term care facilities and hospitals. King Nut brand peanut butter was present in all facilities," the CDC said in a statement.

King Nut is produced by Peanut Corporation of America, which has gone into bankruptcy and closed two plants in Georgia and Texas after inspectors traced the salmonella outbreaks to them.

Its peanuts were not used in name brands of peanut butter but were ingredients in a wide range of products from peanut butter crackers to dog treats and bird seed.

continues:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090225/hl_nm/us_salmonella_usa;_ylt=AlPyVQqhqnjx1TfUHepaQcsDW7oF
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on February 25, 2009, 12:24:30 PM
Whats everyone's view of Guatanamo?

It's a horror show.  Close it down and turn it into a Sandals resort.

Has Sandals changed their policy against selling to same-sex couples? If not, I would rather stay at the Four Points by Sheraton Resort & Casino at Palmas Del Mar in Puerto Rico.

 http://www.starwoodhotels.com/fourpoints/property/overview/index.html?propertyID=1547&PS=PS_aa_SSP_FLCA_Four_Points_by_Sheraton_Palmas_Del_Mar_POP_102908_NAD_FM (http://www.starwoodhotels.com/fourpoints/property/overview/index.html?propertyID=1547&PS=PS_aa_SSP_FLCA_Four_Points_by_Sheraton_Palmas_Del_Mar_POP_102908_NAD_FM)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on February 25, 2009, 12:43:33 PM
Has Sandals changed their policy against selling to same-sex couples? If not, I would rather stay at the Four Points by Sheraton Resort & Casino at Palmas Del Mar in Puerto Rico.

Well I would rather not stay at any stupid cattle like resort which has affectations toward pretensions of this sort.  Give me a hostel and an archaeological site any day.  But for those of you who stay at places like this I sort I can see that this would be a consideration.  However, the post was meant tongue in cheek.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: WhenPigsFly on February 25, 2009, 02:26:43 PM
Whats everyone's view of Guatanamo?

   Close it down and turn it into a Sandals resort.

Not yet.  With luck it's going to be declared a crime scene

PS:  In the meantime ... Don't be surprised if Obama moves all the remaining Gitmo detainees to Bagram.  Then O's DOJ won't be pestered with their human rights lawsuits and won't have to continue being Bush's legal surrogates.  At least not out in the public eye, of course.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on February 25, 2009, 03:11:53 PM
Not yet.  With luck it's going to be declared a crime scene

PS:  In the meantime ... Don't be surprised if Obama moves all the remaining Gitmo detainees to Bagram.  Then O's DOJ won't be pestered with their human rights lawsuits and won't have to continue being Bush's legal surrogates.  At least not out in the public eye, of course.

Good point.  And yeah, I expected something like the Bagram deal.  Extraterritorial, but not Guantanamo. 

Okay, gotta go listen to the Who now.  ;)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: huntinbuddy on February 25, 2009, 04:00:13 PM
U.S. salmonella outbreak count hits 666 people sickened

OMG, salmonella has become the Antichrist!  ;D
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on February 25, 2009, 06:01:54 PM
U.S. salmonella outbreak count hits 666 people sickened

OMG, salmonella has become the Antichrist!  ;D

I know!  :o  Do you think the Antichrist is drug resistant?

And I also love that when I found it it had been on the net for 6 minutes!  :o
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: fritzkep on February 25, 2009, 07:31:51 PM
There's a 6666 Ranch in Texas.

http://www.6666ranch.com/

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on February 25, 2009, 09:54:07 PM
Cash-Strapped Chronicle On Brink Of Sale Or Closure

SAN FRANCISCO -- There are concerns the San Francisco Chronicle may not survive the current recession after a Tuesday announcement by the Hearst Corporation that losses could force the paper to be sold or shut down.

Hearst told Chronicle staff Tuesday that the paper is showing "staggering losses." Hearst says it needs to lay off people in all departments of the newspaper.

If the cuts don't stop the bleeding, Hearst said the Chronicle will be sold or shut down.

http://www.ktvu.com/news/18787164/detail.html (http://www.ktvu.com/news/18787164/detail.html)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on February 25, 2009, 10:27:58 PM
State senator: HIV babies are punishment for promiscuous moms

State Sen. Dave Schultheis restated his opposition to a bill requiring HIV tests for pregnant women by claiming that infected babies would cause families to “see the negative consequences of that promiscuity.”

The Colorado Springs Republican with a penchant for foot-in-mouth moments tells The Rocky Mountain News in a follow-up story to Wednesday’s Senate floor controversy:

What I’m hoping is that, yes, that person may have AIDS, have it seriously as a baby and when they grow up, but the mother will begin to feel guilt as a result of that,” he said. “The family will see the negative consequences of that promiscuity and it may make a number of people over the coming years begin to realize that there are negative consequences and maybe they should adjust their behavior.”

Yes, Schultheis really said he is “hoping” people “have AIDS, have it seriously as a baby …”

http://coloradoindependent.com/22746/state-senator-hiv-babies-are-punishment-for-promiscous-moms (http://coloradoindependent.com/22746/state-senator-hiv-babies-are-punishment-for-promiscous-moms)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on February 25, 2009, 10:31:32 PM
Bigoted Catholic Bishop Attacks Diversity on Campus

We're dedicating the entire 50 spot today to Pennsylvania, where Scranton Bishop Joseph Martino has called for Misericordia University's Diversity Institute to close because they hosted an openly gay man to campus.  Ah, censorship and hate and its finest lowest.

The controversy swirls around a February 17 event held on Misericordia's campus with openly gay author/blogger Keith Boykin (he runs this blog, over here).  Bishop Martino released a statement prior to the event chastising the Diversity Institute for inviting Boykin, and just this week demanded that Misericordia administrators show proof that they are teaching students about the evils of homosexuality.

"Students attending a Catholic institution should have a clear understanding that while all persons should be treated with dignity, homosexual activity is not condoned by the Church and should never be construed as acceptable behavior," the bishop said in his statement.

I'd love to hear what this Bishop's definition of dignity is.  For their part, Misericordia University students have blasted the Bishop as totally out of touch with the 21st century, peddling more James Dobson than Jesus Christ.  Student Ebony Amora, president of the Diversity Club on the campus, told the Scranton Times Tribune that Bishop Martino should be ashamed.

"Frankly, he should be ashamed of himself that because a gay African-American came and spoke at Misericordia University, he wants to shut down the Diversity Institute," said Amora.

Another student, junior George Pierce said that part of Misericordia's mission is to welcome people of all backgrounds in an open, academic setting.

"I don’t think that because it’s coming from the bishop we’re going to just roll over and accept it,"

http://gayrights.change.org/blog/view/the_50_spot_bigoted_catholic_bishop_attacks_diversity_on_campus (http://gayrights.change.org/blog/view/the_50_spot_bigoted_catholic_bishop_attacks_diversity_on_campus)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Rosewood on February 26, 2009, 12:18:10 PM
Didn't know where to put this since Film and Theater did not actually
have a spot. But wanted to share this very well written article on Rupert Everett
that appeared in the NY Times Magazine.

I mean, I love the guy. (Most especially in MY BEST FRIEND'S WEDDING and AN IDEAL HUSBAND).
But who doesn't?

Alex Bechtel, the writer who handles this terrific bio-piece is as finely tuned to his subject
as any interviewer/writer I've ever read. Not only that, but the man can write AND analyze,
seemingly on the fly.

Everett has some truly interesting insights into showbusiness, acting, and last but not least,
being gay.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/22/magazine/22everett-t.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on February 26, 2009, 12:40:25 PM
State senator: HIV babies are punishment for promiscuous moms

This is disgusting John.  Not to mention, probably inaccurate at least half the time.  What about those promiscuous fathers?  In Africa the incidence of HIV in children is directly related to truck drivers going to prostitutes and then coming home to their wives.

However, this guy is a nutjob.  In a big way.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on February 26, 2009, 03:27:28 PM
Cash-Strapped Chronicle On Brink Of Sale Or Closure

SAN FRANCISCO -- There are concerns the San Francisco Chronicle may not
survive the current recession after a Tuesday announcement by the Hearst
Corporation that losses could force the paper to be sold or shut down.

Hearst told Chronicle staff Tuesday that the paper is showing "staggering
losses." Hearst says it needs to lay off people in all departments of the
newspaper.

If the cuts don't stop the bleeding, Hearst said the Chronicle will be sold or
shut down.

http://www.ktvu.com/news/18787164/detail.html (http://www.ktvu.com/news/18787164/detail.html)

This is so bad.  The newspaper business was already in trouble because of
the internet among other things, but it seems like it might go extinct.  This would
be such a horrible shame.

Here are some headlines just from the past two days!

The Plans To Take Seattle Post-Intelligencer To Online-Only

The Rocky Mountain News, 150, Will Be Gone Friday

Financial Times Offers Staff 3-Day Workweek Over Summer

Bankrupt Minneapolis Star-Trib Wants To Void Contracts

Gannett's Tucson Citizen To Close After 138 Years

Already slashed  L.A. Times Merges Arts And Entertainment In Hope Of
Harvesting More H'wd News

Hartford Courant Cuts 100 Jobs; News Staff Halved Since Start Of 2008

San Antonio Express-News Tosses 135 Into The Bushes

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on February 26, 2009, 10:06:33 PM
This is so bad.  The newspaper business was already in trouble because of
the internet among other things, but it seems like it might go extinct.  This would
be such a horrible shame.

Yes, it is!  When I look back at the various things I've posted here from the Chronicle I realize what a loss it will be if it goes out of business.

I have friends who have already lost jobs in this industry.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on February 27, 2009, 07:42:38 AM
So, now what do we do? Jewish Leaders upset with Obama and Clinton. All I see is that She isn't pandering to them. 


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/26/jewish-leaders-blast-clin_n_170411.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on February 27, 2009, 12:33:34 PM
Record stores appear to be a dying breed - much like independent bookstores (see Oscar Wilde Memorial Bookshop).  We lost Tower Records a year or two ago - now Virgin seems to be following suit in San Francisco.

The sad thing for me is that I like browsing in both record and bookstores - it is just not the same experience to do this online.  And I think that the closing of these sorts of places eliminates another of the 'public square' kind of places that people can gather in, feel safe and have a good time.

Goodbye Virgin, I'll miss you.

Virgin Megastore in S.F. will liquidate
Victoria Colliver, Chronicle Staff Writer
Friday, February 27, 2009

The Virgin Megastore in San Francisco will shut its doors in late April, adding a large vacancy at Stockton and Market streets to a growing number of empty storefronts around Union Square, the retail heart of the city.

The music and video retailer, which opened its estimated 45,000-square-foot store 14 years ago, will start liquidation sales sometime next month, company officials confirmed Thursday.

Union Square is still considered one of the country's most vibrant shopping districts and a destination for international tourists. But one of the worst holiday shopping seasons in recent memory, low consumer confidence and an overall dismal economic scene have made retail among the hardest-hit sectors of the economy.

continues:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/02/27/MNE2165P0A.DTL&type=business
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on February 27, 2009, 01:28:24 PM
Wow the Governor of Louisiana (Bobby Jihad) made up his story about his heroic action during Hurricane Katrina. Imagine that!!!



http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/02/jindal_admits_katrina_story_was_false.php
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on February 27, 2009, 03:43:33 PM
We lost Tower Records a year or two ago - now Virgin seems to be following suit in San Francisco.

The sad thing for me is that I like browsing in both record and bookstores - it is just not the same experience to do this online.  And I think that the closing of these sorts of places eliminates another of the 'public square' kind of places that people can gather in, feel safe and have a good time.

I second that MIchael.  The look and feel of selections. Is absolutely
not the same as online. 

The thing about Virgin, as I worked for them, the company that took
over the Virgin Megastores a year ago last October, was a real-estate
company.  It was rumored they wanted some of the properties that
Virgin owned, specifically the Times Square and Union Square (NY)
properties. I don't know if they owned the property in San Francisco's
Union Square.  No matter what they say, I do not think all of the Virgin
Stores that are going out of business are losing money.  I think  that
this real-estate company is using the economy as an excuse to
close the stores.  Because they simply aren't interested in them.

It's like when the Anheuser-Busch company also owned the company
that produced EAGLE brand snacks, like potato chips etc., in the 90's.
A company took over Anheuser-Busch and they were simply not interested
in the snack part of the business (which was hugely successful) and they
simply shut it down.  They didn't even try to sell it.

Same with this company, no matter what they officially say, is my opinion.
The first year they owned Virgin Megastores they closed every store in
every city but one that did not own the property they were located in.  (But
I am not sure about the S.F. property.)

And people readily believe all these places are going out of business
because everyone is strictly buying online.  I can tell you for a fact that
the one I was located in was making a nice profit.

If you go in to the S.F. Virgin before it closes, tell D.J. Dave that Lyle says
hello!  He got to transfer up there after the West Hollywood location
closed!  Maybe he has some inside info or something...
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on February 27, 2009, 03:45:17 PM
Wow the Governor of Louisiana (Bobby Jihad) made up his story about his heroic action during Hurricane Katrina. Imagine that!!!
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/02/jindal_admits_katrina_story_was_false.php

Bobby Jihad--lol!
Governor Slumdog maybe, too.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Zudos on February 27, 2009, 04:26:38 PM
Record stores appear to be a dying breed - much like independent bookstores (see Oscar Wilde Memorial Bookshop).  We lost Tower Records a year or two ago - now Virgin seems to be following suit in San Francisco.

The sad thing for me is that I like browsing in both record and bookstores - it is just not the same experience to do this online.  And I think that the closing of these sorts of places eliminates another of the 'public square' kind of places that people can gather in, feel safe and have a good time.

Goodbye Virgin, I'll miss you.

Virgin Megastore in S.F. will liquidate
Victoria Colliver, Chronicle Staff Writer
Friday, February 27, 2009

The Virgin Megastore in San Francisco will shut its doors in late April, adding a large vacancy at Stockton and Market streets to a growing number of empty storefronts around Union Square, the retail heart of the city.

The music and video retailer, which opened its estimated 45,000-square-foot store 14 years ago, will start liquidation sales sometime next month, company officials confirmed Thursday.

Union Square is still considered one of the country's most vibrant shopping districts and a destination for international tourists. But one of the worst holiday shopping seasons in recent memory, low consumer confidence and an overall dismal economic scene have made retail among the hardest-hit sectors of the economy.

continues:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/02/27/MNE2165P0A.DTL&type=business

Michael I think this is a fascinating point...

I have wondered for a couple of years whether the 'High Street' will die in the near future... Traditionally in the UK High Streets in the centre of towns and cities (mostly) were the buzz: shops, restaurants and pubs! A lot of shopping is moving to the more American style malls and retail parks on the edge of towns and cities, and then with online shopping it damages the High Street further... Not sure if you still have Woolworths in the USA but it went bust in December in the UK - A true victim of the demise of the High Street.

I must admit my browsing of record shops has become browsing new music on My Space, and my shopping has more or less become itunes, or if not available Amazon.   
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on February 27, 2009, 11:20:00 PM
Iraq's queer underground railroad

A secret network of safe houses and escape routes is saving gay Iraqis from execution by Islamist death squads


Peter Tatchell guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 25 February 2009 21.30 GM

In the bad old days of slavery in the United States, there was the "Underground Railroad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_Railroad)" – a clandestine network of secret routes and safe houses – which spirited thousands of southern slaves to freedom in the north.
 
Today, 200 years later in Iraq, a modern version of the underground railroad is saving the lives of gay people who are fleeing Islamist death squads. It is providing safe houses in Baghdad and other Iraqi cities, and is smuggling lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) people to neighbouring countries, where it helps them apply for United Nations humanitarian protection. This secret network, coordinated by Iraqi LGBT exiles (http://iraqilgbtuk.blogspot.com/) in London, is saving dozens of lives.
 
Since the fall of Saddam Hussein, homophobia and the terrorisation of LGBT people has got much worse. The western invasion of Iraq in 2003 ended the tyrannical Baathist dictatorship. But it also destroyed a secular state, created chaos and lawlessness and allowed the flourishing of religious fundamentalism. The result has been an Islamist-inspired homophobic terror campaign against LGBT Iraqis.
 
You can watch two short videos, which show the terror of queer life in "democratic" Iraq here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ajSopj95CU) and here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROUBqSkhO9U).

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/feb/25/iraq-gay-rights (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/feb/25/iraq-gay-rights)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on February 27, 2009, 11:38:26 PM
Federal Imprisonment For Christians Is Right Around The Corner!
 
 
According to the title of the latest missive (http://www.christianadc.org/news-and-articles/239-federal-imprisonment-for-christians-right-around-the-corner) from the Christian Anti-Defamation Commission, if a federal hate crimes bill passes, "Federal Imprisonment For Christians Is Right Around The Corner" :

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote
Why should you be fuming and taking action before you even finish reading this? Because these two bills that are going to be sent to President Barack Obama's desk will silence Christians from speaking against homosexuality or teaching our children that it is wrong. You would quite literally be committing a Federal crime and convicted. If these bills get passed, not only will Christians be silenced -- but, the government is scheduled to swoop in with $10 Million dollars to drive a stake right into the heart of Christians by making sure your children hear and are taught everything against Judeo-Christian beliefs.

The two bills that I am talking about are the David Ray Ritcheson Hate Crimes Prevention Act of 2009 (H.R. 262) coupled with the David Ray Hate Crimes Prevention Act of 2009 (H.R. 256). These two bills were just introduced by Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee and are expected to be signed by President Barack Obama who has supported this legislation at the state level in the past. These two bills CANNOT get to President Obama's desk! No way Christians! You must act now if you want to continue practicing your Christian faith and teaching it to your children.
Sign the petition against Hate Crimes Legislation! (http://www.christianadc.org/take-action/hate-crimes-petition?view=petition&id=46)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's what the H.R. 262 actually says (http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h262/show). See anything about imprisoning Christians in there?

Here's what H.R. 256 actually says (http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h256/text). See anything about imprisoning Christians in there?

Lying makes the baby Jeebus cry.


http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2009/02/zomg1-federal-imprisonment-for.html (http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2009/02/zomg1-federal-imprisonment-for.html)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on February 27, 2009, 11:44:35 PM
Church-state watchdog greets Dobson resignation from Focus with a shrug (http://coloradoindependent.com/22946/church-state-watchdog-greets-dobson-resignation-from-focus-with-a-shrug)
 
 
Focus on the Family figurehead James Dobson’s resignation as chairman of the evangelical empire (http://coloradoindependent.com/22893/dobson-resigns-as-chairman-of-focus-on-the-family) he founded is “unlikely to make much of a difference” in the conservative organization’s operations, the executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State said Friday. “Focus on the Family is merely rearranging the deck chairs on its big, intolerant ship (http://www.au.org/site/News2?abbr=pr&page=NewsArticle&id=10331),” the Rev. Barry W. Lynn said in a statement.
 
Dobson, 72, announced Friday morning he planned to step aside as Focus on the Family (http://www.focusonthefamily.com/) chairman but would continue as host of the Christian ministry’s popular radio program and continue to “speak out on moral issues,” a Focus spokesman said.
 
That’s not enough to suit Lynn, whose watchdog group regularly takes on religious figures who step into politics (http://blog.au.org/2009/02/24/partisan-preacher-irs-should-revoke-florida-evangelists-taxexempt-status/) — and politicians who invoke religion while governing (http://blog.au.org/2009/02/26/praying-for-the-stimulus-package-white-house-needs-to-drop-invocations-at-rallies/).
 
“Despite my differences with him, if Dobson were truly retiring, I would wish him well,” Lynn said. “But I know that Dobson and so many other leaders of the Religious Right intend to remain active, working to force their exclusionary worldview onto the rest of us.”
 
The Colorado Springs-based ministry has run into financial difficulty lately, laying off 20 percent of its employees last fall because of revenue shortfalls, shortly after pouring more than $750,000 into California’s Proposition 8 campaign (http://coloradoindependent.com/21271/focus-on-the-family-vastly-outpaced-mormon-spending-on-proposition-8) to overturn gay marriage.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on February 28, 2009, 02:04:48 PM
I have wondered for a couple of years whether the 'High Street' will die in the near future... Traditionally in the UK High Streets in the centre of towns and cities (mostly) were the buzz: shops, restaurants and pubs! A lot of shopping is moving to the more American style malls and retail parks on the edge of towns and cities, and then with online shopping it damages the High Street further... Not sure if you still have Woolworths in the USA but it went bust in December in the UK - A true victim of the demise of the High Street.

I must admit my browsing of record shops has become browsing new music on My Space, and my shopping has more or less become itunes, or if not available Amazon.   

The loss of the 'High Street' will be a true loss as well, Wayne.  We used to have Woolworths here, but it went bust here before it went bust in the UK.

For me part of the charm of record stores is just seeing what has been marketed.  Admittedly Amoeba Records (a local independent) does a better job than Virgin did and it may be due to the change that Lyle referred to [Lyle, I didn't know they had been sold, but did notice a change in the store climate].

For me there is a charm to hearing what the staff plays and looking at the boxed sets that I would usually never buy due to price.  There is a visceral quality to shopping in these stores that you lose online, although I do shop online for music as well.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on February 28, 2009, 02:10:02 PM
There's apparently a new serial killer in New Mexico killing off women again - the two women who have been I.D.ed had records for drug busts and prostitution.  Shades of the Green River Killer - and Canada's pig farm killer.  And how much do you want to bet this won't get nearly the coverage on television that the death of Caylee Anthony did?

Lonely bones on Albuquerque’s far west mesa
By Tracy Dingmann 2/26/09 1:43 PM

There is a graveyard west of town, but it doesn’t have green grass or headstones. The place where at least 11 people were buried on the city’s far West Mesa is a crime scene, perhaps the city’s largest ever.

Or is it?

Until recently, Albuquerque police said they weren’t really sure these were homicides. To be fair, that was a few days ago, back when the body count stood at six, including the bones of one woman and her fetus.

But how does anyone end up dead and buried on a remote mesa if they weren’t murdered?

I’ve been watching this case closely since the first bones were pulled from the ground in early February, and I’ve been struck by what I see as the media and law enforcement doing their best to tamp down public alarm over the fact that people were murdered and dumped like trash — AND that there was or may still be a serial killer at large.

The statements from police — and the media’s unquestioning coverage of them — have been puzzling, to say the least.
Police have said — and local media have endlessly repeated — the apparent fact that the first known victim, Victoria Chavez, was a “known prostitute and drug user.”

They say it on the television news night after night as they show her blurry police mug shot. This woman has a family and had a life and they have reduced her, personally, to this.

And now, as the body toll keeps growing, we heard police speculating that the rest of the victims were probably prostitutes, too, killed by a pimp who’s now dead.

The bodies are unidentified, but Chavez has been assigned the role of defining the rest of the victims as probably being from this same (worthless?) class of people.

Does anyone else feel like we’re being told: Yes, we are still pulling bones from the ground but these people were drug users, prostitutes and transients (and not coincidentally, apparently all women) so… all you normal people out there in ABQ, sitting on the couch watching this on the news, you have nothing to worry about.

That serial killer who may or may not be running around? He’s not after you.

So I think we have some questions for ourselves. Do we as a society value life for life’s sake, or do we only care about certain kinds of lives?

continues:

http://newmexicoindependent.com/20025/lonley-bones-on-albuquerques-far-west-mesa
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on March 02, 2009, 10:52:42 AM
WOW!! CIA destroyed 92 tapes Imagine that. They all should be put in jail. WE can't even trust those who are to protect us. What a shame.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/02/cia-destroyed-92-terror-i_n_171065.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on March 02, 2009, 12:30:50 PM

A Different Light Bookstore on Santa Monica Boulevard
in West Hollywood is closing its doors

 
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/jacketcopy/2009/02/a-different-lig.html

http://instinctmagazine.com/the-watercooler/a-different-light-goes-dark-in-west-hollywood.html


Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on March 02, 2009, 01:02:07 PM

A Different Light Bookstore on Santa Monica Boulevard
in West Hollywood is closing its doors

 
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/jacketcopy/2009/02/a-different-lig.html

http://instinctmagazine.com/the-watercooler/a-different-light-goes-dark-in-west-hollywood.html





Sad to see.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: huntinbuddy on March 02, 2009, 02:25:09 PM
Wow, the DOW down another 300 points today!
Obviously investors are very confident....in what, maybe....hope?

Or what was that other buzz word I heard last fall....oh yes, it was change.
That'll work as it is what most investors have left if they chose to keep their
money in the markets.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: fritzkep on March 02, 2009, 02:38:46 PM
Invest in ExxonMobil. The price of fuel is climbing again after a few days of dropping.

They know how to increase the value of their product by making it scarcer.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on March 02, 2009, 04:35:34 PM
Wow, the DOW down another 300 points today!
Obviously investors are very confident....in what, maybe....hope?

Or what was that other buzz word I heard last fall....oh yes, it was change.
That'll work as it is what most investors have left if they chose to keep their
money in the markets.

(http://photo.gangus.com/d/26764-2/zing.jpg)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on March 02, 2009, 07:32:47 PM
considering that obama, cosigned by a relevant smattering oc congress have pretty much made it clear to the biggest corporate offenders, big pharma, health insurance, banking and other corporate entities that the gravy train is over, it is not surprising that the dow and s&p are reflecting the panic in the penthouse offices. 

if swiss banking capitulates and gives up the names of secret account holders, expect to see a lot more panic.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: huntinbuddy on March 02, 2009, 07:41:20 PM
How is the gravy train over when today alone the gov doled out $30 billion more to AIG?
My guess is that is what sunk the Dow today.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on March 02, 2009, 09:25:31 PM

A Different Light Bookstore on Santa Monica Boulevard
in West Hollywood is closing its doors

 
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/jacketcopy/2009/02/a-different-lig.html

http://instinctmagazine.com/the-watercooler/a-different-light-goes-dark-in-west-hollywood.html

This is not, unfortunately too surprising.  Read some of the comments attached to this post.  The one that says that they've become more kitschy is right on the money - about 5 years ago it became a much better place for you to buy rainbow flags and stickers than books (I believe that's when the new owners took over).

Also, the writer who mentions Richard LaBonte is right on the money.  Richard used to work at the Castro store - he had Diamanda there for a signing of her book 'The Shit of God' - when he left the place lost it - big time.  And it appears the same is true of the West L.A. store.  The good news is that he's still associated with an online bookstore here:

http://www.btwof.com/enews_extras/ImagesGM26/GM26_HTML.html

And the comment that it "rarely had the latest gay and lesbian books unless the books had naked men on their covers" is right on the money.

In San Francisco the bookstore that I miss more than the former iteration of 'A Different Light' is 'Walt Whitman Bookstore' which closed long ago.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on March 02, 2009, 10:05:40 PM
Porn in the USA: Conservatives are biggest consumers
16:18 27 February 2009 by Ewen Callaway

Americans may paint themselves in increasingly bright shades of red and blue, but new research finds one thing that varies little across the nation: the liking for online pornography.

A new nationwide study (pdf) of anonymised credit-card receipts from a major online adult entertainment provider finds little variation in consumption between states.

"When it comes to adult entertainment, it seems people are more the same than different," says Benjamin Edelman at Harvard Business School.

However, there are some trends to be seen in the data. Those states that do consume the most porn tend to be more conservative and religious than states with lower levels of consumption, the study finds.

"Some of the people who are most outraged turn out to be consumers of the very things they claimed to be outraged by," Edelman says.
Political divide

Edelman spends part of his time helping companies such as Microsoft and AOL detect advertising fraud. Another consulting client runs dozens of adult websites, though he says he is not at liberty to identify the firm.

That company did, however, provide Edelman with roughly two years of credit card data from 2006 to 2008 that included a purchase date and each customer's postal code.

After controlling for differences in broadband internet access between states – online porn tends to be a bandwidth hog – and adjusting for population, he found a relatively small difference between states with the most adult purchases and those with the fewest.

The biggest consumer, Utah, averaged 5.47 adult content subscriptions per 1000 home broadband users; Montana bought the least with 1.92 per 1000. "The differences here are not so stark," Edelman says.

Number 10 on the list was West Virginia at 2.94 subscriptions per 1000, while number 41, Michigan, averaged 2.32.

Eight of the top 10 pornography consuming states gave their electoral votes to John McCain in last year's presidential election – Florida and Hawaii were the exceptions. While six out of the lowest 10 favoured Barack Obama.
Old-fashioned values

Church-goers bought less online porn on Sundays – a 1% increase in a postal code's religious attendance was associated with a 0.1% drop in subscriptions that day. However, expenditures on other days of the week brought them in line with the rest of the country, Edelman finds.

Residents of 27 states that passed laws banning gay marriages boasted 11% more porn subscribers than states that don't explicitly restrict gay marriage.

continues:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16680-porn-in-the-usa-conservatives-are-biggest-consumers.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=online-news
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on March 03, 2009, 06:11:29 AM
Cold cases reopened after bodies found in desert
By MAGGIE SHEPARD and SUSAN MONTOYA BRYAN, Associated Press Writers Maggie Shepard And Susan Montoya Bryan, Associated Press Writers   – Mon Mar 2, 4:05 pm ET

ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. – In the desert outside Albuquerque, hikers have sometimes stumbled upon human remains partially buried under the hardy scrub and hard-baked dirt.

But few people could have imagined the crime scene now emerging: The bones of at least 13 people have been uncovered on the site of an abandoned housing development.

The grisly discovery last month caused authorities to reopen dozens of cold cases involving missing prostitutes, some of whom vanished as much as 20 years ago.

Since the bones came to light, forensic experts, detectives, anthropologists and medical investigators have raked tediously through mounds of dirt for the next sliver of bone or clump of human hair.

Police believe one person or group of people is responsible for the slayings, but they have been reluctant to make comparisons to any existing serial murder cases.

"We don't want to limit our investigation," Police Chief Ray Schultz said, calling the scene "one of the largest and most complex" ever investigated by his department.

So far, only two sets of remains have been identified. But detectives are reviewing cases involving dozens of women who vanished from the city over the last two decades. All of them were suspected of being drug addicts and prostitutes. Of particular interest are 16 women reported missing between 2001 and 2006.

The two bodies identified so far were Michelle Valdez and Victoria Chavez, both women who disappeared within months of each other in 2004.

Chavez was about 28 when she vanished, leaving behind a daughter. Valdez was 22, with two children and another on the way.

Valdez's mother, Karen Jackson of Myrtle Beach, S.C., said her daughter struggled with addiction and worked as a prostitute during periods when she would disappear without any explanation. But she would always resurface to get a hug or money from her father, share a laugh with her sister or call her mom.

Valdez's body and that of her fetus were unearthed Feb. 23. No cause of death has been determined.

Jackson said she was devastated to learn her daughter's fate after years of silence and searching.

"I wanted closure, but not this," she said. "My heart goes out to the rest of the families of the missing women."

The family of Leah Peebles, who is on the list of 16 missing women, is devastated by the discovery but holding out hope.

"I don't think she's out there. I really don't," Peebles' mother, Sharon Peebles, said from her home in Fort Worth, Texas. "I have fear and start worrying ... but until I hear otherwise, I feel she is alive."

Still, after two other women on the list were found in the desert, it's getting harder for Peebles and her husband to keep the faith.

"I want some conclusion, but I don't want that," she said.

Leah Peebles, 24, moved to Albuquerque just months prior to her disappearance. She was trying to start a new life free of drugs and the history of sexual molestation and assault that haunted her in her hometown. Her parents reported her missing in May 2006.

continues:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090302/ap_on_re_us/desert_bodies;_ylt=AiILeOlEeCO1YnvMz37UwcIDW7oF
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on March 03, 2009, 06:50:50 AM
WOW a "secret" Letter to Putin. WE stop the missle defense in East Eruope ans inexchange Russia helps us with the Iran Crisis and their desire for Nuclear. So, what do you all Think? Personally, I say good. The Missle defense sheild was a hoax, will have never worked. Eruope needs Russian gas, so they are happy. Iran already has a Nuclear reactor, so what did Bush do?  NOTHING.



http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/03/washington/03prexy.html?_r=1
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on March 03, 2009, 02:32:35 PM
What moves me most about the discovery of the murder site in New Mexico is that these nameless faceless women have passed without note.  I am very hopeful that some of the cold cases mentioned in the above article will help - but it serves as a reminder to us as we watch our MSNBC and read our Huffington Post that there is a whole class of people out there who are dejected and disconnected.  Nameless and faceless they are shuffled around our country - and there is no bailout for them.

The cases in which they are involved - the Green River murders, the crimes of Robert Pickton, Kendall Francois, Robert Shulman, Vincent Johnson, Robert Hansen - it's been happening all the way back to Jack the Ripper.

It's disheartening, it's tragic and it makes me understand Aileen Wuornos' paranoia - perhaps some of it was based in reality.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on March 03, 2009, 03:28:14 PM

Number 10 on the list was West Virginia at 2.94 subscriptions per 1000, while number 41, Michigan, averaged 2.32.


Michigan was probably in the top ten before I moved to California.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on March 03, 2009, 05:49:51 PM
Ladyboy lizards use transvestite trickery: researchers

(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj282/SanFranciscoJohn/ZD2GMTCAEMW9WVCA9VVHJ2CAIVLFNWCAE70.jpg)

MELBOURNE (AFP) – Young male lizards in South Africa imitate females to fool aggressive older males into leaving them alone, in an example of transvestism in the natural world, researchers have found.

The lizards not only avoid fights but gain access to females under the nose of their more macho rivals, the South African and Australian researchers discovered.

They found that young male Augrabies flat lizards delayed displaying the extravagant coloration of sexually-mature males until they were able to defend themselves adequately.

"Experienced males will chase and bite their young rivals," said associate professor Martin Whiting of Johannesburg's University of the Witwatersrand.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/scienceaustraliasafricaanimaloffbeat
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on March 04, 2009, 01:48:31 AM
Hmmm...would Jack be dodging bullets in Juarez?

Mexico troops move in to retake warring border city
By Robin Emmott Robin Emmott   – Tue Mar 3, 2:53 pm ET

CIUDAD JUAREZ, Mexico (Reuters) – Hundreds of heavily armed soldiers fanned out across Mexico's bloodiest drug war city on Tuesday, trying to prevent a collapse in law and order just south of the U.S. border.

Sirens blared as the army staged one of its biggest troop build-ups in years in Ciudad Juarez, a desert city across the border from El Paso, Texas, where near-daily clashes between drug gangs and police have terrified residents.

Infamous in the 1990s for the unsolved murders of hundreds of women, Ciudad Juarez is now engulfed in the worst drug violence in Mexico as cartels in league with corrupt cops fight over one of the country's most profitable smuggling routes.

More than 2,000 people have been murdered in the area over the past year and drug gang hitmen showed their power last month by forcing the city's police chief to resign with a threat to keep killing police officers until he quit.

"We've got to show we can achieve security in Juarez, for Mexico's sake, for its economy, for people's lives, for our international reputation," said Victor Valencia, the Chihuahua state governor's representative in Ciudad Juarez.

Ciudad Juarez is prized for its location smack in the middle of the 2,000 mile border with road and rail links deep into the United States. The Pacific-coast Sinaloa gang, led by top fugitive Joaquin "Shorty" Guzman, is one of several fighting for control of the city.

Mexico's police forces are tainted up to the highest levels by corruption and direct links to the drug cartels, and President Felipe Calderon has staked his reputation on a nationwide army-led crackdown on cartels.

Ciudad Juarez is now the most crucial battleground of a war that killed more than 6,000 people across Mexico last year and is scaring off investors in cities near the border.

"The solution is with the military. The federal, state and municipal police are infiltrated by organized crime," Valencia told Reuters.

The army expects to have 7,500 soldiers and federal police stationed in Ciudad Juarez by the end of the week, with a further 2,000 troops in the rest of Chihuahua state. Six local bishops pleaded in newspaper ads this week for an end to the killings that are "staining the state with blood".

continues:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/us_mexico_drugs;_ylt=Am.hmuyEmc4t83v9nvScWpMDW7oF
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on March 04, 2009, 04:03:39 AM
Porn in the USA: Conservatives are biggest consumers

not much of a surprise there, eh?

dear lord how i wish the utah list had names attached.  ::) :o
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on March 04, 2009, 10:43:22 AM
not much of a surprise there, eh?

Yeah, well at least now we know where that hand motion comes from when they bonk us on the head trying to take away our rights.... ::)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on March 04, 2009, 10:50:59 AM
Now this is upsetting.



http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE52311U20090304
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on March 04, 2009, 11:58:27 AM
Now a Russian Ex-KGB agent just stared that the USA may colapse by 2010. If this occurs, guess who will get blamed.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/04/igor-panarin-us-will-coll_n_171725.html

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on March 04, 2009, 12:01:24 PM
Now for something softer. This cat is very ugly in a cute sense. It looks like a bat.


http://wbztv.com/watercooler/pets/ugly.cat.scary.2.949524.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on March 04, 2009, 12:20:31 PM
Now this is upsetting.

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE52311U20090304

We used to get small monthly bonuses where I work, based on improved results compared to the prior year. The bonuses stopped in September.

I could have easily posted artificial revenue that could be written off later so that we could get our bonuses too. But the company I work for likes to deal with reality.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on March 04, 2009, 02:50:19 PM
Viewer's guide to Supreme Court hearing
A guide to the California Supreme Court hearing Thursday on Proposition 8 and same-sex marriage
:


How to watch: The hearing is scheduled from 9 a.m. to noon at the court's chambers at 350 McAllister St. in San Francisco. It can be viewed live on the California Channel, which is carried on Comcast cable systems in the Bay Area. The channel number varies from city to city, so check local listings.

-- A group favoring same-sex marriage will sponsor a public viewing of the oral arguments on a JumboTron in San Francisco's Civic Center Plaza.

-- A live Webcast will also be available at www.calchannel.com (http://www.calchannel.com).


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/03/04/MN6I16807P.DTL (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/03/04/MN6I16807P.DTL)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on March 04, 2009, 04:59:27 PM
Now a Russian Ex-KGB agent just stared that the USA may colapse by 2010. If this occurs, guess who will get blamed.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/04/igor-panarin-us-will-coll_n_171725.html

From the article:

Panarin argued that Americans are in moral decline, saying their great
psychological stress is evident from school shootings, the size of the prison
population and the number of gay men.


Someone called Panarin the Rush Limbaugh of Russia...

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: huntinbuddy on March 04, 2009, 05:48:33 PM
From the article:

Panarin argued that Americans are in moral decline, saying their great
psychological stress is evident from school shootings, the size of the prison
population and the number of gay men.


Someone called Panarin the Rush Limbaugh of Russia...



Is he big, fat & ignorant?  If so, he'd qualify!
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on March 05, 2009, 07:50:11 AM
Now a Russian Ex-KGB agent just stared that the USA may colapse by 2010. If this occurs, guess who will get blamed.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/04/igor-panarin-us-will-coll_n_171725.html

From the article:

Panarin argued that Americans are in moral decline, saying their great
psychological stress is evident from school shootings, the size of the prison
population and the number of gay men.


Someone called Panarin the Rush Limbaugh of Russia...




Lyle, you noticed that too. He must have a member of the GOP.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Rosewood on March 05, 2009, 10:11:36 AM
considering that obama, cosigned by a relevant smattering oc congress have pretty much made it clear to the biggest corporate offenders, big pharma, health insurance, banking and other corporate entities that the gravy train is over, it is not surprising that the dow and s&p are reflecting the panic in the penthouse offices. 

if swiss banking capitulates and gives up the names of secret account holders, expect to see a lot more panic.

Has it occurred to any of us that the market 'leaders' may be willfully sinking the market in order to bring Obama
to heel? I know it sounds outrageous, but think. It IS possible.
(I know, I know, next I'll be saying that flying saucers exist.)
Of course Jack is correct.
There is panic, the sort that could and would turn Wall Street insiders against ANY change, cancel ANY hope.
Why is it that the market dislikes Democratic rule so much? Because generally it means a tightening of the reins
of power. At least for a few years, anyway.
And of course they don't seem to be above cutting off their noses to spite their angry faces.
So why am I NOT surprised that the market is tanking?

My question is: how long will they keep it up. Or should I say, down?
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on March 05, 2009, 10:31:52 AM
alternate site for streaming coverage of cal supreme court oral arguments
right now.

http://www.sacbee.com/live
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on March 05, 2009, 12:37:16 PM
Some particularly good news if you name happens to be 'Bubbles':

Compound may block HIV infection
Page last updated at 00:14 GMT, Thursday, 5 March 2009

Researchers have identified a cheap, commonly-used compound that, applied vaginally, can stop monkeys being infected with a primate version of HIV.

The discovery, by the University of Minnesota, raises hopes of a similar microbicidal treatment to block HIV transmission in humans.

Several microbicides have been tested, but results have been disappointing.

The study - focusing on a compound called glycerol monolaurate (GML) - is published online by the journal Nature.

GML is a naturally occurring compound widely used as an antimicrobial and anti-inflammatory agent in food and cosmetics.

Crucially, it is also cheap, and is likely to protect against other sexually transmitted infections too.

Lead researcher Dr Ashley Haase said that if GML proved to be effective in blocking HIV it could potentially help to save millions of lives.

A majority of cases of HIV worldwide are now contracted vaginally, and in Sub-Saharan Africa, where the pandemic is at its most intense, women account for nearly 60% of new infections.

Blocking response

After monkeys are exposed to their version of HIV, known as SIV, T-cells from the immune system rush to the scene to try to fight infection.

However, this is actually counter-productive, as the virus merely uses these cells as fuel to aid its expansion throughout the body.

Therefore, blocking this initial immune response - although it seems counter-intuitive - might actually help to stop infection in its tracks.

continues:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7921195.stm
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: huntinbuddy on March 05, 2009, 04:38:48 PM
Yikes!!!
 Demonic General Electric.....demonic NBC...... GE stock today closes at 6.66

http://research.scottrade.com/public/stocks/snapshot/snapshot.asp?symbol=ge
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: fritzkep on March 05, 2009, 04:49:59 PM
 >:D

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on March 05, 2009, 06:27:50 PM
Well maybe hell has frozen over, Charlie, but those devils at GE won't have any ice to skate on soon....

Arctic summer ice could vanish by 2013: expert
By David Ljunggren David Ljunggren   – Thu Mar 5, 3:39 pm ET

OTTAWA (Reuters) – The Arctic is warming up so quickly that the region's sea ice cover in summer could vanish as early as 2013, decades earlier than some had predicted, a leading polar expert said on Thursday.

Warwick Vincent, director of the Center for Northern Studies at Laval University in Quebec, said recent data on the ice cover "appear to be tracking the most pessimistic of the models", which call for an ice free summer in 2013.

The year "2013 is starting to look as though it is a lot more reasonable as a prediction. But each year we've been wrong -- each year we're finding that it's a little bit faster than expected," he told Reuters.

The Arctic is warming at twice the rate of the rest of the world and the sea ice cover shrank to a record low in 2007 before growing slightly in 2008.

In 2004 a major international panel forecast the cover could vanish by 2100. Last December, some experts said the summer ice could go in the next 10 or 20 years.

If the ice cover disappears, it could have major consequences. Shipping companies are already musing about short cuts through the Arctic, which also contains enormous reserves of oil and natural gas.

Vincent's scientific team has spent the last 10 summers on Ward Hunt Island, a remote spot some 2,500 miles northwest of Ottawa.

"I was astounded as to how fast the changes are taking place. The extent of open water is something that we haven't experienced in the 10 years that I've been working up there," he said after making a presentation in the Canadian Parliament.

"We're losing, irreversibly, major features of the Canadian ice scape and that suggests that these more pessimistic models are really much closer to reality."

continues:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090305/wl_canada_nm/canada_us_canada_arctic_2
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on March 05, 2009, 08:44:45 PM
And btw, apparently living in the middle of the country stinks....

Iowans say pig-odor study passes the smell test
By MICHAEL J. CRUMB, Associated Press Writer Michael J. Crumb, Associated Press Writer   – Thu Mar 5, 5:56 pm ET

DES MOINES, Iowa – On Capitol Hill, a $1.7 million earmark for pig odor research in Iowa has become a big, fat joke among Republicans, a Grade A example of pork. But the people who live cheek by jowl with hog farms in the No. 1 pig-producing state aren't laughing.

They're gagging.

"You hold your breath and when it's really bad you get the taste in your mouth," said Carroll Harless, a 70-year-old retired corn-and-soybean farmer from Iowa Falls.

In Iowa, where the 20 million hogs easily outnumber the 3 million people, the rotten-egg-and-ammonia smell of hog waste often wafts into homes, landing like a punch to the chest.

"Once, we couldn't go outside for a week," said Karen Forbes, who lives near a hog feedlot outside Lorimor. "It burned your eyes. You couldn't breathe. You had to take a deep breath and run for your garage. It was horrid."

She recalls a citywide garage sale held in the town of 420 a couple of years ago that no one attended because of the stink that day.

Continues:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090305/ap_on_re_us/pork_for_pigs;_ylt=Ai7FFJf.QTrLSAcPMVVDUTUDW7oF
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on March 06, 2009, 11:21:34 AM
Mexico blames US for its drug cartel problems. They are living in denial. But wait it has to be Obama's Fault.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/06/mexico-blames-drug-cartel_n_172455.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: fritzkep on March 06, 2009, 01:03:37 PM
One would expect the Republicans to be more sympathetic with the needs of a Midwest farm state. But then, this isn't an election year.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on March 06, 2009, 01:36:54 PM
One would expect the Republicans to be more sympathetic with the needs of a Midwest farm state. But then, this isn't an election year.




They only care or take a populist approach to the problems when it is election years or when they are struggling to keep a float as a party.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on March 06, 2009, 02:48:28 PM
One would expect the Republicans to be more sympathetic with the needs of a Midwest farm state. But then, this isn't an election year.

They only care or take a populist approach to the problems when it is election years or when they are struggling to keep a float as a party.

Wasn't this the whole point of the book "What's The Matter With Kansas"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What%27s_the_Matter_with_Kansas

Part of the problem here is that the talk radio folks who get people excited don't really have much power - they manage to get people angry and they don't deliver.  And then you get guys like James Adkisson who take matters into their own hands:

http://maineowl.net/blog/item/1380
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: windriverrose on March 07, 2009, 07:17:05 AM
One would expect the Republicans to be more sympathetic with the needs of a Midwest farm state. But then, this isn't an election year.


Good morning, All, and happy week-ending from the Deep South.

I've been loitering here for a while, taking advantage of all the fascinating links you guys post to try to broaden my grasp of what's going on in this country, and I have lately come to a conclusion that I really, really HATE - but I just can't see my way around it.

Is it just me, or do all the Republican talking heads and GOP powers-that-be appear to be engaging in a massive, profound bout of pouting?  Given the incredible economic mess in which we're embroiled, is it really possible that individuals charged with maintaining the welfare of our nation are too busy enjoying their snit over being caught with their pants down and held accountable, to step back from their personal vendettas and try to find a way to undo wrongs done over the course of a very long, very focused decline of belief in the American dream?  Is it really more important to them to maintain their stone-faced, nose-in-the-air arrogance, refusing to accept any responsibility for the slide into ruin during the last decade, than it is to put such self-serving posturing behind them and - AHEM - fix the problem?

I don't know; maybe it is.  Maybe it has finally become more politically feasible to ignore one's responsibility and preserve old, out-moded images.

But it sure seems to me that common sense, if not political savvy, should dictate at such dire moments, that one put aside flagrant partisanship and concentrate on pulling together to repair a sinking ship.  Does it really make any sense to just stand on the deck and sink, while refusing to acknowledge the degree of the problem.

Yes, I voted for Barack Obama.  And yes, I believe in his ideals, even if I don't agree with everything he says, and everything he tries.  But at least he IS trying.  He IS making an attempt to stem the tide, and I can't for the life of me understand why Republican congressmen and senators (not to mention demented talk-show hosts) almost to a man, have apparently decided to sit back and hope that he goes under in the flood that is the aftermath of the disastrous Bush debacle.  Do they really think this will absolve them of the responsibility for the original mess?

I am really puzzled, and would appreciate any wisdom anyone here might have to offer.

ETA:  And, on a side note, have you seen the new bumpersticker that is becoming all the rage in the conservative strongholds of our country?  It goes like this:
I'll keep my guns, freedom & money . . . you can keep the "change".  The beauty of right wing bias at work.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on March 07, 2009, 09:40:31 AM
i'd feel a whole lot better if i thought that standing back and HOPING obama will fail or get caught in a contretemps.  instead, i believe many are actively working TOWARDS that end, since obama's humiliation is the ONLY occurrence that makes the GOP look viable to the less informed.  they are trying to throw monkey wrenches into every machine he sets in motion.   

ps: they should have a moralistic field day with the reinstatement of embryonic stem cell research, not that most of the country doesn't AGREE with obama...
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Marge_Innavera on March 07, 2009, 09:52:32 AM
Well maybe hell has frozen over, Charlie, but those devils at GE won't have any ice to skate on soon....

Arctic summer ice could vanish by 2013: expert
By David Ljunggren David Ljunggren   – Thu Mar 5, 3:39 pm ET

OTTAWA (Reuters) – The Arctic is warming up so quickly that the region's sea ice cover in summer could vanish as early as 2013, decades earlier than some had predicted, a leading polar expert said on Thursday.

Warwick Vincent, director of the Center for Northern Studies at Laval University in Quebec, said recent data on the ice cover "appear to be tracking the most pessimistic of the models", which call for an ice free summer in 2013.

I wonder what that will do to the ocean currents that have contributed to temperate climates over the past 10K years?
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: fritzkep on March 07, 2009, 11:11:51 AM
Hey! If they can save a few bucks shipping from Europe to the West Coast via an ice-free Northwest Passage, what difference does it make if the Gulf Stream stops and Europe becomes as cold as Canada? Short-term profits are the most important thing.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: graylockV on March 08, 2009, 12:58:56 PM
Hey! If they can save a few bucks shipping from Europe to the West Coast via an ice-free Northwest Passage, what difference does it make if the Gulf Stream stops and Europe becomes as cold as Canada? Short-term profits are the most important thing.



And I'm sure the Family Research Council is already working hard to make certain that none of those new Arctic beaches are topless!
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: WhenPigsFly on March 09, 2009, 12:13:50 AM
DES MOINES, Iowa – On Capitol Hill, a $1.7 million earmark for pig odor research in Iowa has become a big, fat joke among Republicans, a Grade A example of pork. But the people who live cheek by jowl with hog farms in the No. 1 pig-producing state aren't laughing.

They're gagging.

"You hold your breath and when it's really bad you get the taste in your mouth," said Carroll Harless, a 70-year-old retired corn-and-soybean farmer from Iowa Falls.

Since no one else has mentioned it, I will!  Annie Proulx's "That Old Ace In The Hole" is all about the literal and ethical stink that's synonymous with pig "farming."

Set in the Texas Panhandle, it's  typical Proulx in that she nails the corporations that manipulate and exploit (animals as well as the land in this story).  Although it's probably my least favorite of her books  -- too predictable --  it still rates pretty high with me because she doesn't pull any punches in shining the spotlight on a horrible business.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on March 09, 2009, 06:45:52 AM
More bad news. So, should we nationalize the banks? What should we do? Personally, I am tired of Defending Obama to me Republican firends/coworkers. I know we are in a very big mess, most contributed by the GOP. However, Clinton did sign the Housing Deregulation Bill. So, he is partly to blame. The sad thing is with FOX NEWS out there, its hard to educate these people. Most, however, don't want to know the truth. How do we fight this kind of ignorance. All i have to say is NO MORE Bail outs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-kuttner/white-house-confidential_b_172918.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on March 09, 2009, 07:14:51 AM
Response from Republicans:
1. Eliminate capital gains tax so capital will come back into the market (don't bother to re-regulate)
2. What's the problem? 90% are still working (that means we're being more productive, right?)
3. You can't nationalize the banks, that would be socialism (as if we don't have that now with the "bailout")
4. Cut taxes more (by all means, DON"T pay those government bills that have already been ran up - by Republicans)
5. Recession? What recession? It's all in your head and you're all just a bunch of whiners (look who is talking)

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on March 09, 2009, 08:21:37 AM
Reid is upset with the Senate. Well you are its leader. He is too weak to lead and must leave his leadership post immediately!!!!!!!!


http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0309/19771.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on March 09, 2009, 10:58:05 AM
Sorry another question or comment to be answered. Should Obama have answered to the claims that he is a Socialists.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/08/inyti-peppers-obama-with_n_172883.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Rosewood on March 09, 2009, 12:09:33 PM
Reid is upset with the Senate. Well you are its leader. He is too weak to lead and must leave his leadership post immediately!!!!!!!!


http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0309/19771.html

I agree.
This guy just does not inspire any confidence.
This is what happens when guys who are not leaders are put into
positions of leadership. Kind of like The Peter Principle writ large.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Sandy on March 09, 2009, 02:20:40 PM
Sorry another question or comment to be answered. Should Obama have answered to the claims that he is a Socialists.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/08/inyti-peppers-obama-with_n_172883.html

I don't think Obama should have to answer any question that contains a cuss word. If the reporter were actually interested in the theory or practice of socialism, and how it might influence administration policy, he would have formulated thoughtful questions, rather than attempting to sandbag him with meaningless fluff.

Which is to say, the reporter appears not to have any firm grasp on what socialism is, other than a fringe-right swear word.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on March 09, 2009, 02:53:39 PM
Religion is on the decline. Not news to me.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/09/more-americans-say-they-h_n_173044.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on March 09, 2009, 03:23:44 PM
DES MOINES, Iowa – On Capitol Hill, a $1.7 million earmark for pig odor research in Iowa has become a big, fat joke among Republicans, a Grade A example of pork. But the people who live cheek by jowl with hog farms in the No. 1 pig-producing state aren't laughing.

They're gagging.

"You hold your breath and when it's really bad you get the taste in your mouth," said Carroll Harless, a 70-year-old retired corn-and-soybean farmer from Iowa Falls.

Since no one else has mentioned it, I will!  Annie Proulx's "That Old Ace In The Hole" is all about the literal and ethical stink that's synonymous with pig "farming."

Set in the Texas Panhandle, it's  typical Proulx in that she nails the corporations that manipulate and exploit (animals as well as the land in this story).  Although it's probably my least favorite of her books  -- too predictable --  it still rates pretty high with me because she doesn't pull any punches in shining the spotlight on a horrible business.

Oh wow!  An Annie Proulx connection in the News thread!  Thanks JD!

I haven't read 'Old Ace In The Hole' - I've heard similar comments to the one you just posted - so I didn't put two and two together.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Zudos on March 09, 2009, 04:04:45 PM
That Ole Ace in the Hole was the first Proulx book I encountered and absolutely LOVED it... So much so that I wanted to go on a holiday, hog farming in the Texas Panhandle!!!!!!!!  ;D
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on March 09, 2009, 09:56:31 PM
News from our good friends in Saudi Arabia....

Saudi court sentences 75-year-old woman to lashes
By MAGGIE MICHAEL, Associated Press Writer
Monday, March 9, 2009

A 75-year-old widow in Saudi Arabia has been sentenced to 40 lashes and four months in jail for mingling with two young men who are not close relatives, drawing new criticism for the kingdom's ultraconservative religious police and judiciary.

The woman's lawyer told The Associated Press on Monday that he would appeal the verdict against Khamisa Sawadi, who is Syrian but was married to a Saudi. The attorney, Abdel Rahman al-Lahem, said the verdict issued March 3 also demands that Sawadi be deported after serving her sentence.

He said his client, who is not serving her sentence yet, was not speaking with the media, and he declined to provide more details about the case.

The newspaper Al-Watan said the woman met with the two 24-year-old men last April after she asked them to bring her five loaves of bread at her home in al-Chamil, a city north of the capital, Riyadh.

Al-Watan identified one man as Fahd al-Anzi, the nephew of Sawadi's late husband, and the other as his friend and business partner Hadiyan bin Zein. It said they were arrested by the religious police after delivering the bread. The men also were convicted and sentenced to lashes and prison.

The court said it based its ruling on "citizen information" and testimony from al-Anzi's father, who accused Sawadi of corruption.

"Because she said she doesn't have a husband and because she is not a Saudi, conviction of the defendants of illegal mingling has been confirmed," the court verdict read.

Saudi Arabia's strict interpretation of Islam prohibits men and women who are not immediate relatives from mingling. It also bars women from driving, and the playing of music, dancing and many movies also are a concern for hard-liners who believe they violate religious and moral values.

continues:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/03/09/international/i115659D63.DTL
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on March 10, 2009, 06:55:09 AM
Passing of the Labor Bill might not occur. So what do you think? I guess Obama might not change anything if the Dems don't want change either. And if thats the case the desm will lose in 2 or 4 years. They have the chance to maintain power for many years, but I see that they will throw it all away. I pray that I'm wrong.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/09/key-dems-wavering-in-supp_n_173328.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on March 10, 2009, 08:38:42 AM
Coleman's lawsuit doesn't look good. He might only get 89 of the ballots voted. It will not help. Read more check out the link within this link. I hope it ends soon. People here are getting very upset. They want to re-vote. I say NO!!! It will cost more then this trial. Also, if we re-vote I prefer new candidates from both sides.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/10/more-bad-news-for-coleman_n_173409.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on March 10, 2009, 11:30:25 AM
WOW as  if we didn't see this coming. Pentagon Knowingly exposed soldiers to toxic materials.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/10/pentagon-knowingly-expose_n_173493.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: WhenPigsFly on March 10, 2009, 12:50:49 PM
WOW as  if we didn't see this coming. Pentagon Knowingly exposed soldiers to toxic materials.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/10/pentagon-knowingly-expose_n_173493.html

Interesting that this leaked memo sat unnoticed for more than two months on a VA watchdog site.  One wonders WHEN we would have heard about it if it hadn't been moved to Wikileaks where it was finally discovered by the liberal and "alternative news source" Raw Story
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Pentagon_knowingly_exposed_troops_to_cancercausing_0310.html

Apparently NYT and WaPo still haven't heard the news.

 
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on March 10, 2009, 02:12:37 PM
Clearly once they start drinking everyone forgets your name....

Boston's real-life 'Cheers' bartender is laid off
By JAY LINDSAY, Associated Press Writer Jay Lindsay, Associated Press Writer – 1 hr 15 mins ago

BOSTON – Eddie Doyle was the guy who really did know everybody's name, at least when he started working at the tavern that inspired the television show "Cheers."

To the tens of thousands of tourists that later passed through, Doyle remained behind the bar to offer a smile, a beer and tips about where to find the Boston that wasn't shown on TV.

Now Doyle is out of a job, laid off from "Cheers" after 35 years.

The bar's owner has said a tough economy and sagging business forced the move, which was one of several layoffs.

Doyle said he's not bitter about being laid off, just surprised and a little sad.

"This bar, for me ... it was not just another job," Doyle said. "It was the perfect job."

Longtime friend and lifelong bartender Tommy Leonard called Doyle's exit "the end of an era," and said Doyle was one of the most giving men he knows.

"He just has a way to connect," Leonard said. "If you want to feel good about yourself you go in and see Eddie Doyle, whether you were a total stranger or a longtime friend."

Doyle, who was laid off in February, has spent the last few weeks cleaning out his office, and reflecting on what he considered a great run.

He began working at the pub in 1974, after a few years bouncing around the advertising world as a graphic artist. He'd worked occasionally as a barkeep and said the fast pace and personalities sucked him in. He took a regular shift at the restaurant above the bar, then moved downstairs, turning down a chance to head the graphics department at a now-defunct department store chain, a decision he never regretted.

"I'd probably be in a nursing home right now," he said with a laugh.

Doyle, who will give his age only as around 66, describes his job in the early years as "ringmaster." People off all stripes, from college professors to working men, would meet to hash out the day's events, give each other a hard time and occasionally cause mischief. He recalled a group of regulars who got in trouble racing wheelchairs at a local hospital where he was staying with an illness, just before stopping in to surprise him with a party on the night "Cheers" debuted.

"It was a great mix of people," Doyle said. "I could probably say good night to each one of them by name or face."

continues:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090310/ap_on_re_us/cheers_bartender;_ylt=AleTa4K.gkBRvr3j0BXZK7UDW7oF
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on March 11, 2009, 07:00:50 AM
WOW an dirty bomber that will not get the front page or hear on the national news. Why? Maybe because for his hatred for Obama and is a US citizen instead of a Arab.


http://bangornews.com/detail/99263.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on March 11, 2009, 09:42:09 AM
Ellen, some good news about Health Care you might like. Some Conservatives are considering Comprehensive health Care for all.


http://www.newmajority.com/ShowScroll.aspx?ID=51b68513-c341-45fa-95ee-c90b4209796a
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on March 11, 2009, 01:24:46 PM
WOW an dirty bomber that will not get the front page or hear on the national news. Why? Maybe because for his hatred for Obama and is a US citizen instead of a Arab.


http://bangornews.com/detail/99263.html

Yes, well Eric Robert Rudolph bombed Olympic Park, a lesbian bar and planned parenthood and few people called him a terrorist either.  And when Ronald E. Gay shot 6 people in the Backstreet Cafe in Roanoke, VA because he didn't like that people made fun of his name he wasn't called a terrorist either.  And when Dr. Barnette Slepian was shot by James Charles Kopp he was only rarely called a terrorist.

In fact the people who bombed and set fire to abortion clinics were rarely called terrorists.  There's a good list here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on March 11, 2009, 03:40:33 PM
I was watching Jeff Bozo Bezos on Nightline last night gushing about the kindle last night and couldn't help but think: 'Okay, you've ruined independent booksellers and contributed to the end of record stores - and now you want to eliminate books?'

I do understand the interest in electronic books for people who travel a lot - or those who want to read books without keeping them.  But I think that this overlooks at least some of the reasons that people get books.  If you're interested in a topic won't you want to look at several books at once?  Am I the only one who likes to spread out books around me and go from book to book looking at various viewpoints on a single topic - and to look at them side by side?

And what about art or nature books - do you really want to see a large painting or photo reduced to the size of the kindle screen?

Someone need to say 'enough' to Jeff Bezos.  Bookstores and record stores do more than sell records - they serve as social settings as well.  And they employ people - I don't particularly want to send all of the jobs from my local record and bookstores to Amazon's warehouses. 

I think he overestimates the market for e-books.  We've had e-books for at least a decade now, and it really does not make up a large part of the library's circulation.

But what do readers here think?  Would anyone here like to discuss this?  It would be great to get an actual discussion going in this thread.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: garyd on March 11, 2009, 05:30:54 PM

But what do readers here think?  Would anyone here like to discuss this?  It would be great to get an actual discussion going in this thread.

If it an idea who's time has come then come it will, I suppose.
No sense in cursing the fire.
I like Amazon. I buy some music, but not much anymore because of itunes.
I did the majority of my Christmas shopping on Amazon and that was great.

Having said that, however, I don't own a Kindle and, for now , don't want one.
I travel, a lot, and in the last year or so I don't even carry my laptop with me unless I absolutely must.
Just too much to lug through the airport and security and whatever.
I do carry my iphone on which I download music, TV shows, movies.
I can retrieve and send email, get on the internet, play games and all
on a gizmo that fits in my shirt pocket.
BUT, I carry a book.

Here is where I think a Kindle or something like it has the potential to be
pretty cool.
Schools.
I think it would be fantastic if textbooks could all be downloaded onto a kindle-like device.
High School, College.
Western Civ, American Literature, Foreign Language, Psych. texts all in one place.
No more 40 lb spine deforming backpacks.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on March 11, 2009, 06:02:06 PM
No sense in cursing the fire.

Having said that, however, I don't own a Kindle and, for now , don't want one.
I travel, a lot, and in the last year or so I don't even carry my laptop with me unless I absolutely must.
Just too much to lug through the airport and security and whatever.
I do carry my iphone on which I download music, TV shows, movies.
I can retrieve and send email, get on the internet, play games and all
on a gizmo that fits in my shirt pocket.
BUT, I carry a book.

Here is where I think a Kindle or something like it has the potential to be
pretty cool.
Schools.
I think it would be fantastic if textbooks could all be downloaded onto a kindle-like device.
High School, College.
Western Civ, American Literature, Foreign Language, Psych. texts all in one place.
No more 40 lb spine deforming backpacks.

Oh you know me - I'll curse the fire and tilt at windmills too.  ;) :D

Yes, it would be good for schools.  That makes sense.

I'm with you on the device overload.  I was a tech support person in the late 90s and the company I worked for had me on a beeper.  That was about it for me - I decided then that I would never be at the beck and call of anyone.

But regarding the kindle - I much prefer to be able to leaf through a book - look at the index, go back to the pictures, etc.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: WhenPigsFly on March 11, 2009, 06:03:45 PM


But what do readers here think?  Would anyone here like to discuss this?  It would be great to get an actual discussion going in this thread.

Michael, I thought Bezos was going to lose his shirt on the Kindle. If he'd depended on me to keep the little gadget solvent, he would have.  I'm one of those readers who literally has to FEEL the book ('though I don't have any hangup about reading reams of news articles on my laptop.  It's a puzzlement). 

And  even with a quarter million titles, a quick scan of the Kindle's catalog leaves me wanting.

Gary, I hadn't thought about using them for textbooks.  At first blush it seems most logical.  But don't kids still write notes and underline their texts just as they always have?  If they weren't able to scribble in the book would it mean they wouldn't use the book? 
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on March 11, 2009, 06:14:20 PM
Michael, I thought Bezos was going to lose his shirt on the Kindle. If he'd depended on me to keep the little gadget solvent, he would have.  I'm one of those readers who literally has to FEEL the book ('though I don't have any hangup about reading reams of news articles on my laptop.  It's a puzzlement). 

And  even with a quarter million titles, a quick scan of the Kindle's catalog leaves me wanting.

Gary, I hadn't thought about using them for textbooks.  At first blush it seems most logical.  But don't kids still write notes and underline their texts just as they always have?  If they weren't able to scribble in the book would it mean they wouldn't use the book? 

Well often I find that even scanning Amazon leaves me wanting.  Although I really like their search software - often I'll use it as a backup in the library as it is much more forgiving than cataloging software - it intuits what you want much better.

I really, really think that reading is a tactile experience - so I agree with you completely that this is a problem for e-book readers.  I only brought up travel because the only friends who read e-books are the ones who travel a lot.

There is, of course, an additional problem here.  If you have a book on your kindle and you finish it does it go away?  Do you have a library of books?  Does it eat up memory (I would imagine it has to).  And what happens when you move from one platform to another?

In the library we have had problems with online audiobooks only being available in WMA format - and (of course) everyone wants MP3 (and, regardless of what people think, most people are not sophisticated enough to convert the files - believe me, I've spent lots of time trying to talk people through the conversion).

I really am a bit surprised Bezos is pushing this so much - you would think that he would have researched the use of ebooks in libraries - they just don't get that much use.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: garyd on March 11, 2009, 06:26:44 PM

Gary, I hadn't thought about using them for textbooks.  At first blush it seems most logical.  But don't kids still write notes and underline their texts just as they always have?  If they weren't able to scribble in the book would it mean they wouldn't use the book? 
Yeah, I am sure they do.
It would have to be an interactive device I suppose.
Something beyond the kindle.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: garyd on March 11, 2009, 06:28:51 PM

Oh you know me - I'll curse the fire and tilt at windmills too.  ;) :D

LOL, I am with you there.
Fire cursing and windmill tilting are still two of my favorite pastimes.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: graylockV on March 11, 2009, 09:30:10 PM
I'm shocked....shocked.... that Bristol Palin and Levi Johnston have broken up!

How could it happen?  Who could have seen it coming?

He's complaining that he's not allowed to see his baby son very often.  (Not with the Dragon Lady at the front door.  It's not just Russia that she's looking for.)

I said way back when that there would be no happier person than 'ole Levi if and when McCain lost, so that, after a brief pause, he could high-tail it right out of Wasilla Wing-nut's "family."
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: WhenPigsFly on March 11, 2009, 10:14:43 PM
 
There is, of course, an additional problem here.  If you have a book on your kindle and you finish it does it go away?  Do you have a library of books?  Does it eat up memory (I would imagine it has to).  And what happens when you move from one platform to another?

In the library we have had problems with online audiobooks only being available in WMA format - and (of course) everyone wants MP3 (and, regardless of what people think, most people are not sophisticated enough to convert the files - believe me, I've spent lots of time trying to talk people through the conversion).

I've seen one Kindle in operation (the first model), and the 70-something-year-old user loved it.  She said it would hold "hundreds" of books (I think the new model holds over 1,000 titles)

Michael, I'm one who's ignorant about WMA.  If it's so user UNfriendly, why do libraries seem to buy that format more than anything else?  Money?
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on March 11, 2009, 10:43:39 PM
I've seen one Kindle in operation (the first model), and the 70-something-year-old user loved it.  She said it would hold "hundreds" of books (I think the new model holds over 1,000 titles)

Michael, I'm one who's ignorant about WMA.  If it's so user UNfriendly, why do libraries seem to buy that format more than anything else?  Money?

It's not that WMA is user unfriendly, JD, it's that most portable devices use MP3 format because it stores more data.  It's the conversion that's difficult.

As for what libraries buy - the format that the data was originally made available in was WMA (windows media application - I think) - libraries didn't have a choice.  But when it became apparent that most patrons preferred MP3 they passed that along to the companies who sell the data and they made the format available (this year).

I would still be concerned about the portability of the data from the kindle (having lived through many data conversions - I'm skeptical).
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on March 12, 2009, 12:39:42 PM
I was watching Jeff Bozo Bezos on Nightline last night gushing about the kindle last night and couldn't help but think: 'Okay, you've ruined independent booksellers and contributed to the end of record stores - and now you want to eliminate books?'

He must be on a promotional mission because he was on Charlie Rose
a few days ago doing the same thing.

All the while he was talking I was wondering what the "book signings of
the future" would look like.  Let me send you an e-autograph.

It reminds me of the night a few years ago when Bill Gates was
on Letterman and Bill was describing how they'd be able to stream
video onto computer screens, but the quality wasn't so good yet.  Dave
leaned over and whispered, "Hey, Bill, ever heard of television?"

There are people who continuously try to develop new gadgets for
anything.  And there are those that like gadgets.  Ever since I read
a book about how being all wired up with electronics is harming
people's health (it's not natural after all, to be inundated with
electronic noise, images, etc.) I have been really wary of these things.
I always ask, this might be interesting, but is it necessary?  Bezos
kept saying they kept trying to get the kindle so that looking at the
screen would be like holding a book and reading it.  The page had to
look like a book.  I kept thinking what is wrong with just a book, then?

A recent survey asked what invention, other than weapons, do you wish
had never been invented, and by a huge margin it was the cell phone!
And yet it seems that most everyone has one.  These electronic things
are addicting to people.  There's story after story about kids who text
message thousands of times a day.  I remember seeing two kids recently
walking down the street and I heard a cell phone go off and the other kid
said, "Oh now I won't get to finish my story for you."  I was thinking what
it would have been like to be a child saddled with a cell phone growing up.
I can't imagine being subjected to the whim of a parent's call 24 hours a day.
Even thinking about that possibility is stressful.  On one of those afternoon
shows there was a story about these parents trying to teach their kids
responsibility and they had their kids keep checking in with them all day by
phone and they were upset at one of their children who kept losing the phone.
They were so upset that the child couldn't handle the responsibility of owning
a phone.  The child confessed on the show that the phone became so stressful
that they were losing it on purpose!

So, I am skepical of the need for all these electronic gadgets.  A principal of a
school that was spending an unreasonable million dollars a year on the
upkeep and replacement of all the classroom computers read an article that
there was no evidence that having computers in the school classrooms
helped children learn any better and started a policy to get rid of them all.  Now
that school has saved all that money and the students test scores have
improved.

(You wonder why computer companies often donate computers to schools?
Or libraries?  Computers need new software, updating, maintenance,
replacement and a host of other things.  A cash flow to the computer
manufactures is started.)

I have never seen a kindle, but the idea seems odd to me.  People have to carry
a book around, what is the difference having something else to carry around?
Books don't need a power source.  I'd rather see a photograph in a book than
on a machine.  When you have a book, you have a book.  When you have a
kindle, what do you have exactly?

It seems that kids growing up nowadays have to have electronics degrees
to navigate through life.  I heard of a guy who's an expert mechanic who has
been having trouble finding work because all of the places he's applied to
recently use complicated computer programs to diagnose car problems and
offer repair solutions.  He says he just knows how to fix cars!  He doesn't need
a computer's help.  Heh!

The young always accuse those who are older of being out of touch and out
of date when it comes to new gadgets and such.  (Are those annoying
electronic billboards really necessary?)  But I always have to ask if these new
things improve ones life.  Bezos spent a good bit of time on Rose telling him
how much like reading a book using the kindle is.  And about how long the
power source lasts.  And how easy it is.

Well, reading a book is easy without a kindle.  The only power source I need
is my hands.  It is easy as pie.  And in the long run, if I don't need to keep
adding money for the power source, I'm skeptical it's any cheaper.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: garyd on March 12, 2009, 12:54:29 PM
  But I always have to ask if these new
things improve ones life. 

Agreed, and it is a valid question to ask I think.
On the other hand, without the computer
and the internet, you would not be able to share
your thoughts with such a large and diverse audience.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on March 12, 2009, 02:01:42 PM
  But I always have to ask if these new
things improve ones life. 

Agreed, and it is a valid question to ask I think.
On the other hand, without the computer
and the internet, you would not be able to share
your thoughts with such a large and diverse audience.


Agreed.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on March 12, 2009, 02:09:19 PM
But I always have to ask if these new things improve ones life. 

Agreed, and it is a valid question to ask I think.  On the other hand, without the computer
and the internet, you would not be able to share your thoughts with such a large and diverse audience.

Well all things in moderation Gary (not something I say often, I must admit).  Clearly computers and the internet are handy - but I've been using a computer since 1985 (and considered getting one earlier than that) and was 'online' as a customer service rep. on CompuServe in 1989.  So those are tried and true technologies at this point (and were developed for non-consumer markets - science and the military are the origins, respectively, I think).

Lyle's post deserves attention on it's own - and I'll get back to that a little later today.  But this central question is very appropriate to address on its own.  As someone who has gotten rid of his car because I live in a city (and find it more of a hassle to use one than not).

But I really do think that we 'buy into' technology without much thought now.  And much of it (vinyl -> CD -> MP3 or beta -> VHS -> DVD -> blueray) seems as much driven by commerce as by any innate need.

I keep wanting to ask Jeff Bezos if he used his Segway to get to his most recent promotional event for the Kindle.  Remember when the Segway was going to revolutionize the world as we know it?

Meanwhile there are some technologies - like the windup computers that are being distributed in the 3rd world - and solar and water purification systems for the same - that REALLY could be making a big difference in the world.  But we don't hear much about them, because they're not being sold to those of us who are relatively affluent in the first world.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: garyd on March 12, 2009, 04:36:08 PM
Well all things in moderation Gary (not something I say often, I must admit).  Clearly computers and the internet are handy - but I've been using a computer since 1985 (and considered getting one earlier than that) and was 'online' as a customer service rep. on CompuServe in 1989.  So those are tried and true technologies at this point (and were developed for non-consumer markets - science and the military are the origins, respectively, I think).

But I really do think that we 'buy into' technology without much thought now.  And much of it (vinyl -> CD -> MP3 or beta -> VHS -> DVD -> blueray) seems as much driven by commerce as by any innate need.

I keep wanting to ask Jeff Bezos if he used his Segway to get to his most recent promotional event for the Kindle.  Remember when the Segway was going to revolutionize the world as we know it?


Yes, I see your point and I am not in total disagreement.
Capitalism and certainly consumerism can and do create enormous waste.
Do we really need dozens of brands of toasters, cars, refrigerators, television sets, Williams-Sonoma gadgets, iphones, 3G iphones, ipods, small ipods, teeny-tiny ipods?
No.
Often,however, the same competition employed to create this diversity also creates, (serendipitously usually), something wonderful.
The internet,and specifically the www which was developed as a capitalist/consumerist venture, has made the world a smaller place.
That is a good thing, I think.

Yes, perhaps we do "buy into" things without much thought.  But who's fault is that?
It is a choice.
Perhaps we need to alter the engine that drives our choices rather than the engine that drives our economy and our technological advances.

Segway is an interesting example.
Clever technology.
Fun but stupid product.
We rejected it.
Anywhere one can go on a Segway one can also just "walk".
And, unless we want to all turn into those human blobs from "Wall-E", walking is the wiser choice.

(On the other hand, we toured Angel Island last year on Segways and it was a hoot)
oh dear.  :">
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on March 13, 2009, 02:59:42 AM
(On the other hand, we toured Angel Island last year on Segways and it was a hoot)
oh dear.  :">

Well that seems like a perfectly acceptable use of the technology.  You're entirely right that it's people's own fault for buying into these electronic hula-hoops.

As Lyle says, there are people who just like gadgets.  Aside from consumerist concerns, however, I do wonder about the implications for social interaction.  I see people who are constantly 'plugged in' on transit here - listening to the ipod while texting.  There is even a sort of crime wave associated with it, where people become unaware of their surroundings and are ripped off:

http://www.kcbs.com/Robberies-Increase-on-San-Francisco-Muni/3961747

Interestingly enough I ran across this blog on the BBC today:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/analysis/7935725.stm
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on March 13, 2009, 08:18:00 AM
men in South Africa are raping lesbian women in order to cure them. SAD and horrifying. Watch the video.


http://www.guardian.co.UK/world/2009/mar/12/
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on March 13, 2009, 01:37:55 PM
Yes, perhaps we do "buy into" things without much thought.  But who's fault is that?  It is a choice.

One point I think about all the time is that it really is NOT a choice when
applied to children who grow up immersed in this digital soup.  They
don't know what it's like "without" all of this stuff around.

Recently I read an article about media delivery (movies, tv, music etc.)
where people were arguing the merits of different delivery systems for
movies and a woman used her children as an example and said that
it didn't seem to matter what system they got it in, the important factor
was that they could get it when they wanted it
.  Well, if you think about
that statement, that IS a very childlike attribute.  "Wah wah wah I want it
now!"  Kids growing up with that idea handed to them all the time will
most likely be different adults than those that actually had to make an
effort to get something.  If they had to go to a theatre to see a movie or
to a library to get a book or some information or even to a store to buy a
product.  To actually have to communicate to someone because you
wanted to (going home to a phone or somewhere to a pay phone) not
because you could just press a button and connect.

I remember when the city's transit buses used to discourage noise.
People talked quietly, usually, amongst themselves on the buses.  If
someone had a radio they would be told to shut it off or maybe even
asked to disembark.  Now they have tv screens on the buses where
useless news information is related in between advertising
opportunities.  All this whether you want to hear it or not.

And advertising used to be geared to the parents.  In the 50's they learned
to bypass the parents and advertise directly to the kids.  So the parents
ability to "instruct" their kids has eroded.

We think that with all of our electronic media that people communicate
more and more with one another.  And I use communicate in the sense
of interacting with people in useful ways.  A Barry Levinson film called
Avalon makes this point in ways that talking about it cannot.  The film
spans many decades and in the beginning of the film families are all
together interacting with one another and the film portrays this as a
good thing.  When the years pass and radios are introduced you notice
a subtle change in how everyone relates to one another.  By the 50's
when the grown-ups are together, the children are glued to the tv set
and not interacting with anyone.  It's something that really gets to you
when sitting through the film.  And this is before computers and all other
portable electronic gadgets.

All of these gadgets, to me, isolate children in their rooms from their
parents to a greater and greater extent.  One recent local survey here in
Southern California purported that schoolage children now communicate
with their parents on the phone as much or more than in person.  A
woman said that when she wants her kids to come to dinner she texts
them in their rooms.  (Huh?)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on March 13, 2009, 01:38:52 PM
The article linked above makes a brief for and against case about the
new technolgies:

Against:
Quote
Kenan Malik asks if the internet is making us stupid
He hears from leading neuroscientist Maryanne Wolf of Tufts University.

"My worry is that the child who will be so immersed in digital media will really have the benefit of only part of that entire reading circuit," she says, "rather than a deeper probative function of that information, the going beyond the information given."


For:
Quote
An opposite point of view comes from the Canadian web guru Don Tapscott, who believes we are creating the brightest generation in history.  "Time online is not taking away from hanging out with your friends, learning the piano, talking to your parents or doing your homework," he says. "It's taken away from television."   And, he argues, that means the digital generation are more curious, sophisticated and intelligent than their parents.

The for argument belies the fact that time online IS, to many kids, the
same thing as television.  Youtube is telvision.  A video download IS
television.  Also, has he read anything on teenage oriented websites
that he finds sophisitcated?  Has he read the posts, the replies, that are
written to articles on them?  If that's what passes as sophistication
nowadays, then three cheers to Brittany Spears.  This notion that this
generation is more curious sophisticated and intelligent than their
parents is laughable if he didn't believe it.  But, of course, his biography
is all about business related internet oriented subjects which is where
his audience lies.

The against argument is closer to what I believe.  I see, on the internet,
children having a thought and then finding any site that agrees with
them.  This is not learning or thinking for yourself.  It's another childlike
tactic.  The mindset of finding allies to gang up on your enemies.  Like
school bullying.  The time on the internet that Tapscott believes is
creating a more intelligent generation would be more believable if there
were adults (teachers) guiding the kids.  When left to their own devices,
the kids are going to eat candy.  They're not going to do what might be
best for them.  That's why we presumably have teachers and parents.

Hillary Clinton's often derided "It Takes a Village" to raise your children
becomes harder to do when the influences that come from the outside
are so prevalent upon the kids these days and the influences are not
always geared to a child's well being, it's been gear to corporations
making money.

I read parts of a book that came out about ten years ago.  They used
an annual survey that purported to measure how happy people generally
were.  Their conclusion was that even though there had been huge
strides in all the new technoligies and advancements in machines that
were supposed to make life easier, and the discoveries in health and
medecinal fields, that people were more unhappy than at any time in the
last 50 years when the study/surveys had begun.  And this was before
the Bush presidency!
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on March 13, 2009, 09:15:58 PM
One point I think about all the time is that it really is NOT a choice when applied to children who grow up immersed in this digital soup.  They don't know what it's like "without" all of this stuff around.

Entirely true - and adults even celebrate this as a form of precociousness.

There have been a number of articles about 'unplugging' (although this next one doesn't give much umph to the term, if it just means the blackberry doesn't go upstairs):

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23802779/

This one's a little bit better:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=%2Fc%2Fa%2F2006%2F12%2F24%2FINGGHN489E1.DTL&type=printable

And apparently the idea has been around for a while:

http://www.networkworld.com/net.worker/research/book_reviews/0521read1.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on March 13, 2009, 10:09:02 PM
Man dressed as Batman character the Joker, killed by police

Friday, March 13 2009   


Quote
A man dressed as Batman villain the Joker has been shot by police
after pointing a loaded shotgun at them.

The man, who was said to be obsessed with the character, was wearing full
costume and makeup when he was challenged by officers in a national park
in Virginia, according to legal documents.

The FBI named him as army specialist Christopher Lanum, who was
wanted as a suspect over the stabbing of a fellow soldier at Fort Eustis, a
major army base in the state, several hours before. Lanum's girlfriend,
Patsy Ann Marie Montowski, who was with him when he was shot, told
investigators that the soldier idolised the Joker, played in the most recent
Batman film, The Dark Knight, by Heath Ledger.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/13/police-shoot-man-dressed-as-joker
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on March 13, 2009, 10:11:46 PM
HBO Apologizes for ‘Big Love’ Episode
by DAVE ITZKOFF

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/12/arts/television/12arts-HBOAPOLOGIZE_BRF.html?_r=1

Quote
An episode of “Big Love,” the HBO series about a polygamous Mormon family, above, has courted controversy with the Mormon church and prompted an apology from the cable channel before the show has run, The Associated Press reported. The episode, scheduled for Sunday, will show a character undergoing an endowment ceremony, a religious rite the church considers sacred. In a statement, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints said, “Certainly church members are offended when their most sacred practices are misrepresented or presented without context or understanding,” according to The A.P. HBO said that it did not intend to cause offense to the church and apologized but added that the ceremony was an important part of the episode. In a statement the show’s creators, Mark V. Olsen and Will Scheffer, said they “took great pains to depict the ceremony with the dignity and reverence it is due,” The A.P. reported.

Poor Mormons, boo hoo hoo, I care as much about them as they do me.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: doodler on March 14, 2009, 01:03:30 AM
Apparently China is pretty nervous about the financial situation in the US... maybe with good reason... and I know "our" problem is affecting the rest of the world which got me to wondering what was going on elsewhere during our first "great depression." I don't remember ever hearing anything in school about what Europe, Asia, etc were doing at that time. Anyone?
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: garyd on March 14, 2009, 10:16:02 AM
Apparently China is pretty nervous about the financial situation in the US... maybe with good reason... and I know "our" problem is affecting the rest of the world which got me to wondering what was going on elsewhere during our first "great depression." I don't remember ever hearing anything in school about what Europe, Asia, etc were doing at that time. Anyone?

The "great depression" was global,maybe not Japan,  with the rigidity of the gold standard being the toxin that spread the problem.  However that is way too simplistic.  There are dozens of books but I did a quick scan of the internet and the Wiki article linked below appears to be a pretty good overview. Hope it helps.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression)

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: doodler on March 14, 2009, 05:46:06 PM
Thanks!
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on March 16, 2009, 05:52:43 AM
Bail out AIG again. I think not. IOt doesn't do anyone any good if we bail them out and not change their managment. 


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/15/aig-outrage-dominates-sun_n_175056.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on March 16, 2009, 07:17:31 AM
Barney Frank is mad at AGI and is considering firing people. How can he do that? He can't unless you nationalize them. Well, Barney what took you so long? I'm so mad I could spit. Obama will again take the fall. If this keeps up the GOP will again take control in 2010, even though it was their policies that got us in this mess to begin with.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/16/barney-frank-on-aig-maybe_n_175207.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: WhenPigsFly on March 16, 2009, 10:44:51 AM
Here's the MoveOn petition against AIG

http://pol.moveon.org/aigbonus/?r_by=15739-7784748-YK0jYyx&rc=paste
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: WhenPigsFly on March 16, 2009, 11:12:10 AM
And here's a pro-regulation and anti-bailout-money-without-true-transparency petition (to be delivered to Frank on Wednesday):

http://action.firedoglake.com/page/s/Transparency
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on March 16, 2009, 11:59:48 AM
And here's a pro-regulation and anti-bailout-money-without-true-transparency petition (to be delivered to Frank on Wednesday):

http://action.firedoglake.com/page/s/Transparency



I signed, but the thing is if AIG does goes under what happens to my 401K. I have them thru my work. I cannot take it out without paying a penalty.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Ellen (tellyouwhat) on March 16, 2009, 12:27:48 PM
Tom, I don't think it's about AIG going under -- it's about AIG execs deciding they need their so-called "retention" bonuses.  yikes.

when in fact they should be getting "laid off" in order to save money for the company.


Obama is trying to block the payout:


http://apnews.myway.com//article/20090316/D96V8NH00.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on March 16, 2009, 12:50:48 PM
Here's another article on the 'Kindle' from yesterday's Chronicle.  Although I may have to revise my opinion - reading from a kindle makes a whole lot more sense than sending messages saying 'I'm waiting for a train' in twitter.  BTW, read the comments - you get the idea as to how rabid some of the techno-supporters in the Bay Area are:

The Kindle 2: a thin read
John McMurtrie, Chronicle Book Editor
Sunday, March 15, 2009

"Without books, we might melt into the airwaves, and be just another set of blips."

With characteristic eloquence, John Updike wrote those words in 2000, when bemoaning the growing popularity of what he coolly referred to as "electronic text-delivery systems." (The rest of us know them simply as e-book readers.)

In his essay, Updike argued that if we abandon the printed book for its electronic rival, we will lose the book as furniture ("Shelved rows of books warm and brighten the starkest room"), sensual pleasure ("the average book fits into the human hand with a seductive nestling, a kiss of texture, whether of cover cloth, glazed jacket, or flexible paperback"), souvenir ("One's collection comes to symbolize the contents of one's mind") and ballast ("Books hold our beams down; they act as counterweight to our fickle and flighty natures").
Turning the page

The elegant persuasiveness of Updike's essay stayed with me long after I first read it in the New York Times. The piece was later published in a book of the author's essays, titled "Due Considerations," and it was equally convincing when I reread it the other day - on Amazon's latest electronic text-delivery system.

And yet, consider this: Updike, who wrote at home on Boston's bucolic North Shore, probably never tried reading his 736-page, carpal-tunnel-inducing "Due Considerations" with one hand while standing in a herky-jerky subway car, the book jabbing the sternum of a fellow commuter.

Also, Updike no doubt had plenty of space for any number of 700-page books, his house being bigger than a two-bedroom home lined with overstuffed shelves ready to give way. (OK, so I'm behind a few spring cleanings.)

Yes, there are some good things to be said for Amazon's new e-book reader, the Kindle 2.

There's more: If you happen to be in a rush to get Updike's book (let's just say you're on deadline and can't make it to a bookstore or library), thanks to the Kindle, you can buy the e-book (for $9.99) and download it with a wireless connection (in a minute) - and add it to your personal Kindle collection of 1,500 titles. (The Sony Reader, by contrast, doesn't offer wireless access.)

The thing can also download newspapers and magazines, for those who don't mind reading the paper on a screen the size of a half sandwich. (Competition in this market will arrive by year's end: The Hearst Corp., which owns The Chronicle, plans to introduce its own large-format e-book reader.)

continues:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/03/15/RV5O16C8Q4.DTL&hw=kindle&sn=001&sc=1000
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Sandy on March 16, 2009, 02:55:53 PM
And here's a pro-regulation and anti-bailout-money-without-true-transparency petition (to be delivered to Frank on Wednesday):

http://action.firedoglake.com/page/s/Transparency



I signed, but the thing is if AIG does goes under what happens to my 401K. I have them thru my work. I cannot take it out without paying a penalty.

As long as you roll it into an IRA, you need not pay the penalty for early withdrawal.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on March 16, 2009, 03:05:02 PM
Interesting read, Michael.  The old saying, if you were on a
deserted island, what book would you want to have with you,
can now be answered, "I'd like to have a kindle with me and
1500 books!"  (Of course, there's the power source problem,
you'd eventually end up with none.)

I suppose there's a place for kindles, but what I hate is the
seeming attitude by some advocates that because it's new
and do-able, that it is superior.  I liked the article author's
references to just the mere aesthetics and pleasures and
even artistry of printed and bound books.  The fact that actual
fonts and types are chosen, etc.

Quote
Despite all this, however, the simple fact is that printed books will always
be better than their electronic imitators, for the reasons Updike elucidated
and for others [which the article author then elucidates].

Thought:

Definition of Elucidate--Using a computer for communication, what you
would call Lucy Ricardo's attempts to have Ricky take her out for an
evenings entertainment.  E-luci-date.


Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on March 17, 2009, 09:00:39 AM
The GOP wants Coleman to take his lew suit in MN to teh supreme court. If he does it will back fire here in MN.


http://dyn.politico.com/members/forums/thread.cfm?catid=1&subcatid=1&threadid=2188786
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on March 17, 2009, 10:17:55 AM
During the 80s, when I was working for an AIDS info organization, I used to document this sort of thing for our newsletter.  I'm just amazed that the church is still saying nonsense like this:

On Africa trip, pope says condoms won't solve AIDS
By VICTOR L. SIMPSON, Associated Press Writer Victor L. Simpson, Associated Press Writer – 6 mins ago

YAOUNDE, Cameroon – Pope Benedict XVI said on his way to Africa Tuesday that condoms were not the answer in the continent's fight against HIV, his first explicit statement on an issue that has divided even clergy working with AIDS patients.

Benedict arrived in Yaounde, Cameroon's capital, Tuesday afternoon to a crowd of flag-waving faithful and snapping cameras. The visit is his first pilgrimage as pontiff to the African continent.

Benedict had never directly addressed condom use, though his position is not new. His predecessor, Pope John Paul II, often said that sexual abstinence — not condoms — was the best way to prevent the spread of the disease.

Benedict said that the Roman Catholic Church is in the forefront of the battle against AIDS.

"You can't resolve it with the distribution of condoms," the pope told reporters aboard the Alitalia plane headed to Yaounde. "On the contrary, it increases the problem."

The pope said that a responsible and moral attitude toward sex would help fight the disease.

About 22 million people in sub-Saharan Africa are infected with HIV, according to UNAIDS. In 2007, three-quarters of all AIDS deaths worldwide were there, as well as two-thirds of all people living with HIV.

Rebecca Hodes with the Treatment Action Campaign in South Africa said if the pope is serious about preventing new HIV infections, he will focus on promoting wide access to condoms and spreading information on how best to use them.

"Instead, his opposition to condoms conveys that religious dogma is more important to him than the lives of Africans," said Hodes, director of policy, communication and research for the action campaign.

While she said the pope is correct that condoms are not the sole solution to Africa's AIDS epidemic, she said they are one of the very few HIV prevention mechanisms proven to work.

Even some priests and nuns working with those living with HIV/AIDS question the church's opposition to condoms amid the pandemic ravaging Africa.

The Roman Catholic Church rejects the use of condoms as part of its overall teaching against artificial contraception.

Senior Vatican officials have advocated fidelity in marriage and abstinence from premarital sex as key weapons in the fight against AIDS.

The late Cardinal Alfonso Lopez Trujillo made headlines in 2003 for saying that condoms may help spread AIDS through a false sense of security, claiming they weren't effective in blocking transmission of the virus. The cardinal, who died last year, headed the Vatican's Pontifical Council for the Family.

continues:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090317/ap_on_re_af/af_pope_africa;_ylt=AkYytDqZagQSEpZ2ugd6DUQDW7oF
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: pattieono on March 17, 2009, 11:23:09 AM
Quote
During the 80s, when I was working for an AIDS info organization, I used to document this sort of thing for our newsletter.  I'm just amazed that the church is still saying nonsense like this:

On Africa trip, pope says condoms won't solve AIDS
By VICTOR L. SIMPSON, Associated Press Writer Victor L. Simpson, Associated Press Writer – 6 mins ago

    As a worker of a Public Health Dept., STD division, all I can say is; unf****believable!!! >:( ::) >:(
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: garyd on March 17, 2009, 11:45:16 AM
I'm just amazed that the church is still saying nonsense like this:

Talk about an organization that should be put on trial for "crimes against humanity".
I know my bias is showing but, trust me, my anger is not limited to the Catholic church.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on March 17, 2009, 01:23:33 PM
Talk about an organization that should be put on trial for "crimes against humanity".
I know my bias is showing but, trust me, my anger is not limited to the Catholic church.

I'm with you Gary (and Pattie).  This is just disgusting - the message given is 'it doesn't matter if you suffer horribly in this life, as long as we save your soul.'  However, as the son of a woman who had 9 children (and 14 pregnancies) I can tell you this isn't a new message.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on March 17, 2009, 02:06:42 PM
What number were you, Michael?
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on March 17, 2009, 06:08:30 PM
What number were you, Michael?

Just like the Beatles song, I'm #9.  I used to like to say my mother had 4 boys, 4 girls and me.  ;D
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: graylockV on March 18, 2009, 02:06:58 AM

Sources: US to sign UN gay rights declaration


WASHINGTON – The Obama administration will endorse a U.N. declaration calling for the worldwide decriminalization of homosexuality that then-President George W. Bush had refused to sign, The Associated Press has learned.

U.S. officials said Tuesday they had notified the declaration's French sponsors that the administration wants to be added as a supporter. The Bush administration was criticized in December when it was the only western government that refused to sign on.

The move was made after an interagency review of the Bush administration's position on the nonbinding document, which was signed by all 27 European Union members as well as Japan, Australia, Mexico and three dozen other countries, the officials said.

The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because Congress was still being notified of the decision. They said the administration had decided to sign the declaration to demonstrate that the United States supports human rights for all.

When it was voted on in December, 66 of the U.N.'s 192 member countries signed the declaration — which backers called a historic step to push the General Assembly to deal more forthrightly with anti-gay discrimination.

But 70 U.N. members outlaw homosexuality — and in several, homosexual acts can be punished by execution. More than 50 nations, including members of the Organization of the Islamic Conference, opposed the declaration.

Some Islamic countries said at the time that protecting sexual orientation could lead to "the social normalization and possibly the legalization of deplorable acts" such as pedophilia and incest. The declaration was also opposed by the Vatican.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090318/ap_on_go_pr_wh/obama_gay_rights
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on March 18, 2009, 07:11:02 PM
Natasha Richardson dies at 45 after ski accident

Quote
  NEW YORK – Natasha Richardson, a gifted and precocious heiress to acting royalty whose career highlights included the film "Patty Hearst" and a Tony-winning performance in a stage revival of "Cabaret," died Wednesday at age 45 after suffering a head injury from a skiing accident

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/obit_natasha_richardson (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/obit_natasha_richardson)

Richardson helped raise millions of dollars in the fight against AIDS since her father, director Tony Richardson, died of AIDS-related causes in 1991

Quote
Fighting AIDS in Memory of Her Father

British actress Natasha Richardson used to put her money where her heart was when it came to charities– and that was it. But when her father, director Tony Richardson,died of AIDS in 1991, she realized that she wanted to do more than sign a check.

So Richardson, 37, asked the American Foundation for AIDS Research if it could use her help. The answer, of course, was a resounding yes.

Cut short her honeymoon to help

Richardson didn’t just lend her name to amfAR, she started organizing and planning, and she hasn’t stopped since. In fact, she even cut short her 1994 honeymoon with actor Liam Neeson to work on a benefit gala for the premiere of her father’s last film. She and Neeson,who starred together in 1994’s Nell, now have two sons (Michael,5, and Daniel Jack, 4) and Richardson has continued to work steadily as an actress in films and theater. She won a 1998 Tony for Cabaret.

“Whenever it gets to be too much and you think, ‘Aaahhh, I’d rather be with my children or doing anything other than making all these phone calls or writing all these letters,’ then you remember just how many people are sick and dying,” she said in a recent telephone interview. “That just spurs you on.”

http://gotracey.com/natasha-richardson-fighting-aids-in-memory-of-her-father-people-online/ (http://gotracey.com/natasha-richardson-fighting-aids-in-memory-of-her-father-people-online/)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Ellen (tellyouwhat) on March 18, 2009, 08:24:17 PM
I didn't know about her involvement in that effort John --

How sad -- during a ski lesson  :'(
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Passion on March 18, 2009, 08:36:06 PM
Really sad.  I loved her in Parent Trap.....the one with Lindsey when she was cute and on the right track!  So sad for her two boys and Liam.  Brain injuries are so serious and so often deadly.  Everyone should be wearing helmets when participating in those types of sports. 
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on March 18, 2009, 09:48:24 PM
I didn't know about her involvement in that effort John --

How sad -- during a ski lesson  :'(

Her AIDS fundraising is what I knew most about her.

I only saw 1 of her films, The Parent Trap.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on March 18, 2009, 10:10:26 PM
Pope's condom stance sparks row

Several EU states have criticised Pope Benedict for saying that the use of condoms could endanger public health and increase the problem of HIV/Aids.

The Pope argued that distribution of condoms aggravated the problem, rather than helping to contain the virus, as he began a visit to Africa this week.

France's foreign ministry said condoms were fundamental to prevention.

German ministers said it was irresponsible to withhold family planning from the poorest of the poor.

The Roman Catholic Church believes marital fidelity and sexual abstinence are the best way to prevent the spread of HIV.

Some 22 million people are infected with HIV in sub-Saharan Africa, according to UN figures for 2007.

This amounts to about two-thirds of the global total.

'Extremely harmful'

French foreign ministry spokesman Eric Chevallier said: "While it is not up to us to pass judgment on Church doctrine, we consider that such comments are a threat to public health policies and the duty to protect human life."

In Berlin, German Health Minister Ulla Schmidt and Development Minister Heidemarie Wieczorek-Zeul said in a joint statement: "Condoms save lives, in Europe as well as on other continents.

"Modern assistance to the developing world today must make access to family planning available to the poorest of the poor - especially the use of condoms.

"Anything else would be irresponsible."

Dutch Development Minister Bert Koenders said it was "extremely harmful and very serious" that the Pope was "forbidding people from protecting themselves".

"There is an enormous stigma surrounding the subject of Aids and Aids sufferers face serious discrimination," he added.

"The Pope is making matters worse."

'Increasing the problem'

On his way to Cameroon, the Pope said HIV/Aids was "a tragedy that cannot be overcome by money alone, that cannot be overcome through the distribution of condoms, which can even increase the problem".

The solution lay, he said, in a "spiritual and human awakening" and "friendship for those who suffer".

Campaigners say condoms are one of the few methods proven to stop the spread of HIV.

Rebecca Hodes, of the Treatment Action Campaign in South Africa, said the Pope's "opposition to condoms conveys that religious dogma is more important to him than the lives of Africans".

continues:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7950671.stm
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: bubba on March 19, 2009, 05:47:51 AM
I didn't know about her involvement in that effort John --

How sad -- during a ski lesson  :'(

Her AIDS fundraising is what I knew most about her.

I only saw 1 of her films, The Parent Trap.


Sadly I didn't know anything about her activism or any of her movies.  I mainly knew her as Liam's wife, who I am a BIG fan of.   My heart goes out to her young children and to her Mother Vanessa Redgrave.  From what I am reading today her Father died of AIDS, that is what sparked that.   I also see she was a Tony winner.   Just a horrible tragedy.  Goes to show life can be gone in the blink of an eye.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on March 19, 2009, 09:01:01 AM
To add insult to injury Citibank spent $10 million on upgrades in their Exec offices. This shows that unregulated capitalism will eat itself. All of these people should be run out of this country and/or shot. They have more morals at all, no convictions or no shame. WE NEED A SECOND REVOLUTION HERE IN THE USA.



http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=adLGVE_YzvUU


AS THIS ECONOMIC MESS UNRAVELS IT REVEALS THAT AMERICA NAY THE WORLD RUNS ON SCAMS ONE GIANT PONZI SCHEME!

WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE OUTRAGED OVER JUST A FEW MILLION DOLLARS ESPECIALLY BECAUSE TAXPAYERS BEAR THE BRUNT OF THESE SCAMS. WE THE LITTLE MEN AND WOMEN ARE BEING ROBED TO SUPORT THESE ECONOMIC DISTRUCTIVE PARASITES. YET WE ARE NOT BAILED OUT IF WE MAKE RISKY DECISIONS!

WHERE IS OUR STIMULUS TO PAY OUR MORTGAGE AND OTHER VITAL NECESSITIES SINCE WE LOST OUR JOBS DUE TO NO FAULT OF OUR OWN?

LOAN MODIFACATION? WHAT A CROCK! I AM YET TO SEE A LENDER/ LOAN SERVICER WILLING TO MODIFY A LOAN FOR SOMEONE WHO IS UNEMPLOYED SINCE YOU CANNOT PAY YOUR MORTGAGE WITH YOUR UNEMPLOYMENT CHEQUE!

WHERE ARE THE JOBS?

WHEN WE DO FIND A JOB IT IS PART TIME OR FULL TIME AND THEN WE ARE FURLOUGHED

THIS IS JUST BOGUS

WHEN ARE TAXPAYERS GOING TO BE BAILED OUT?

WHERE IS OUR T.A.R.P?

OH... THAT WOULD BE SOCIALISM!
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Ellen (tellyouwhat) on March 19, 2009, 10:00:59 AM
To add insult to injury Citibank spent $10 million on upgrades in their Exec offices. This shows that unregulated capitalism will eat itself. All of these people should be run out of this country and/or shot. They have more morals at all, no convictions or no shame. WE NEED A SECOND REVOLUTION HERE IN THE USA.



I find it really interesting that we find ourselves talking this way.

A Republican Senator even suggested hari-kari (sp?? :P) honor suicide for business men who were only, technically, playing by the corrupt rules that have been setting them up to get richer, and well within the business culture of the past twenty or so years.

It may well be a serious tipping point.  The crowds are restless.

And armed.

It's been said that the guys returning their bonuses to AIG are afraid for their personal safety.


(ETA:  i am not trying to incite bloody revolution.  My point is that the outrage is sparking this kind of talk.  And from both Dems and Reps.  It's an observation.)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: oilgun on March 19, 2009, 10:16:56 AM
Pope's condom stance sparks row

Several EU states have criticised Pope Benedict for saying that the use of condoms could endanger public health and increase the problem of HIV/Aids.

The Pope argued that distribution of condoms aggravated the problem, rather than helping to contain the virus, as he began a visit to Africa this week.

France's foreign ministry said condoms were fundamental to prevention.

German ministers said it was irresponsible to withhold family planning from the poorest of the poor.

The Roman Catholic Church believes marital fidelity and sexual abstinence are the best way to prevent the spread of HIV.

Some 22 million people are infected with HIV in sub-Saharan Africa, according to UN figures for 2007.

This amounts to about two-thirds of the global total.

'Extremely harmful'

French foreign ministry spokesman Eric Chevallier said: "While it is not up to us to pass judgment on Church doctrine, we consider that such comments are a threat to public health policies and the duty to protect human life."

In Berlin, German Health Minister Ulla Schmidt and Development Minister Heidemarie Wieczorek-Zeul said in a joint statement: "Condoms save lives, in Europe as well as on other continents.

"Modern assistance to the developing world today must make access to family planning available to the poorest of the poor - especially the use of condoms.

"Anything else would be irresponsible."

Dutch Development Minister Bert Koenders said it was "extremely harmful and very serious" that the Pope was "forbidding people from protecting themselves".

"There is an enormous stigma surrounding the subject of Aids and Aids sufferers face serious discrimination," he added.

"The Pope is making matters worse."

'Increasing the problem'

On his way to Cameroon, the Pope said HIV/Aids was "a tragedy that cannot be overcome by money alone, that cannot be overcome through the distribution of condoms, which can even increase the problem".

The solution lay, he said, in a "spiritual and human awakening" and "friendship for those who suffer".

Campaigners say condoms are one of the few methods proven to stop the spread of HIV.

Rebecca Hodes, of the Treatment Action Campaign in South Africa, said the Pope's "opposition to condoms conveys that religious dogma is more important to him than the lives of Africans".

continues:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7950671.stm

What else can we expect from that creep, wasn't he in charge of the department formally known as the Inquisition?  ;D
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on March 19, 2009, 10:41:08 AM
Again Congress, Media, and the People led by the Media cannot see the forest for the trees. They are focused on the $165 M bonuses instead of the larger picture, the failure of big business and Wall Street to regulate its self, and to be good corporate citizens. Big Business and Wall Street need to be overhauled and strictly regulated. But Congress and the Media are picking one small battle for their outrage. They are trying to win one small battle of greed instead of trying to win the battle to fix the much bigger problem overall. The GOP says it wants less government, more free market but it hasn't worked. Now they are outraged and pointing fingers. Well how are they going to justify their outrage when bills come forward to strictly regulate Wall Street and Big Business? How are they going to claim that government needs to let the market place regulate itself, and that government needs to stay out of it? How are they going to claim that we need less big government.? Be angry about the bonuses but remember that they are just a symptom of the bigger disease. Don't let the patient die from the disease. Remember the saying about picking your fights. You don't waste your time and resources on the little fights with little benefit $165M if it means you lose the bigger fight , trillions of dollars, because of squandered resources.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on March 19, 2009, 10:45:37 AM
It just gets better. 13 firms that recieved bailouts owe back taxes.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090319/ap_on_go_co/bailout_delinquent_taxes
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Ellen (tellyouwhat) on March 19, 2009, 11:06:41 AM
Again Congress, Media, and the People led by the Media cannot see the forest for the trees. They are focused on the $165 M bonuses instead of the larger picture, the failure of big business and Wall Street to regulate its self, and to be good corporate citizens. Big Business and Wall Street need to be overhauled and strictly regulated. But Congress and the Media are picking one small battle for their outrage. They are trying to win one small battle of greed instead of trying to win the battle to fix the much bigger problem overall. The GOP says it wants less government, more free market but it hasn't worked. Now they are outraged and pointing fingers. Well how are they going to justify their outrage when bills come forward to strictly regulate Wall Street and Big Business? How are they going to claim that government needs to let the market place regulate itself, and that government needs to stay out of it? How are they going to claim that we need less big government.? Be angry about the bonuses but remember that they are just a symptom of the bigger disease. Don't let the patient die from the disease. Remember the saying about picking your fights. You don't waste your time and resources on the little fights with little benefit $165M if it means you lose the bigger fight , trillions of dollars, because of squandered resources.




I'm starting to think, to get through this rough patch, Obama and the dem majority is just going to have to steamroll the naysayers.

They are like Lilliputians running around screaming "Socialism!  Bad bailout!  Democrats fault!  Less government!"

I'm sorry to bring up the Lilliputians -- the actual satire of Jonathan Swift probably doesn't transfer to this situation but lordy, giving their foolish arguments any credence at this point is wasting all of our time, including theirs.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: WhenPigsFly on March 19, 2009, 11:09:16 AM
 
(ETA:  i am not trying to incite bloody revolution.  My point is that the outrage is sparking this kind of talk.  And from both Dems and Reps.  It's an observation.)

I wouldn't carry a pitchfork, and I certainly don't want to see anyone harmed physically.
But I don't have any problem watching these crook executives squirm. 

By the way, Liddy says some have ret'd the bonuses.  So AIG is going to vouch that the money's been returned?  Why is that not reassuring?

PS: And isn't ironic that the same populous couldn't have worked up just a smidge of such outrage when it was discovered that our former Executive Branch had contemplated putting the 1st and 4th amendments into mothballs to keep habeas corpus company?   
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on March 19, 2009, 02:04:28 PM


(ETA:  i am not trying to incite bloody revolution.  My point is that the outrage is sparking this kind of talk.  And from both Dems and Reps.  It's an observation.)

tell THAT to homeland security !!  ;D
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on March 19, 2009, 03:02:24 PM
What else can we expect from that creep, wasn't he in charge of the department formally known as the Inquisition?  ;D

Yes - the 'Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith':

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congregation_for_the_Doctrine_of_the_Faith

Your point, of course, is well taken.  Bit I'm still frankly a little shocked that they're saying something so stupid and genocidal at this point.  We know condoms work to prevent AIDS.  His predecessor was saying this sort of nonsense throughout the 80s and 90s.

Since he was Cardinal Ratzinger I like to think of him as Pope Rat I.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on March 19, 2009, 05:17:09 PM
heil !
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on March 19, 2009, 05:19:22 PM
heil !

Actually I think 'Ave' but it all amounts to the same thing.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on March 19, 2009, 08:44:17 PM
heil !

Actually I think 'Ave' but it all amounts to the same thing.
nope, not for pope nazi...
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on March 19, 2009, 09:11:29 PM
nope, not for pope nazi...

Oh!  Good point.  I wasn't thinking of him in the context of his own past history - but in the context of the history of the church.  I tend to forget that.  Thanks for reminding me.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on March 20, 2009, 05:07:08 AM
if ever a pope needed to be considered in context, it is this one.  his life and philosophy are of a piece.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on March 20, 2009, 08:15:50 AM
Suzy Orman Attacks Bush. WHy she did say this sooner has me puzzled.

"Commander in Chief?" she says of George W. Bush, with a mix of disbelief and scorn. "You blew up every single financial vessel we had and if you think you aren't personally responsible, well, the blame starts at the top. There is no higher top than you, SIR! If I were you, I would feel so absolutely horrific that I would take every penny I had and distribute it to anybody and everybody to help them in whatever way I could. You owe the American people every penny of your fortune and your family's fortune."


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/20/suze-orman-to-bush-you-ow_n_177241.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Ellen (tellyouwhat) on March 20, 2009, 11:02:45 AM
^^^^^

Good for her, anyway. 

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: pattieono on March 20, 2009, 11:11:07 AM

 :)  Vermont Senate panel approves gay marriage bill : http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090320/ap_on_re_us/gay_marriage
 
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on March 20, 2009, 01:48:03 PM
^^^^^

Good for her, anyway. 
and you were wondering what to say to shrub if you ran into him in an elevator.  hah
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on March 20, 2009, 03:19:07 PM
I loved this - particularly since I had people telling me how I should and shouldn't behave all the time when I was growing up (I ignored them - and I got my 'A' too):

First Lady Michelle Obama Reflects on Talking 'Like a White Girl'
Michelle Obama Tells D.C. Students That Stereotypes Get in the Way

 By DAVID WRIGHT
March 20, 2009

First lady Michelle Obama visited one of the poorest neighborhoods in the nation's capital Thursday, hoping her example would help encourage struggling, young high school students.

It's the latest attempt by the first lady to use her bully pulpit to talk candidly with Americans, and she's sparking some compelling conversations.

Obama's remarks came as part of a career day she organized for Washington, D.C.-area students, featuring 20 other high-profile women who fanned out across the city to connect with kids. For her part, the first lady acknowledged that her childhood included struggles with language and racial identity.

And when one student asked her, "How did you get to where you are now?" she credited, in part, her command of the language.

"I remember there were kids around my [Chicago] neighborhood who would say, 'Ooh, you talk funny. You talk like a white girl.' I heard that growing up my whole life. I was like, 'I don't even know what that means but I am still getting my A.'"

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=7130988&page=1
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on March 20, 2009, 08:09:17 PM
Apparently Satan is causing problems in Washington [and yes, I did see this on Keith Olbermann].  Rob, does this sort of thing happen a lot up there?

Woman accused of church theft blames Satan
1 day ago

ARLINGTON, Wash. (AP) — A woman accused of taking more than $73,000 from the Arlington church where she was an administrative assistant blames the devil. Papers filed with a theft charge Wednesday in Snohomish County Superior Court say the 62-year-old Arlington woman told detectives "Satan had a big part in the theft."

The Everett Herald reported the woman was accused of forging the pastor's signature on 80 checks from the Arlington Free Methodist church. She was fired in February 2008.

She told detectives she used the money to cover household expenses because she couldn't stand the thought of losing her home.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5inlV5QqPP8GO0rsEEVCUGiby8G5wD9719N781
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: fritzkep on March 20, 2009, 08:12:04 PM
Wow, the devil did make her do it.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on March 20, 2009, 08:14:49 PM
Get the behind my bankbook, Satan!

Meanwhile...here's another bit of info about a plumber and how he's feeling (I think I saw a movie about this once)...probably NSFW....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsgfJwWLgtk
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Rob in Puyallup on March 20, 2009, 08:50:26 PM
Apparently Satan is causing problems in Washington [and yes, I did see this on Keith Olbermann].  Rob, does this sort of thing happen a lot up there?
Woman accused of church theft blames Satan
1 day ago

ARLINGTON, Wash. (AP) — A woman accused of taking more than $73,000 from the Arlington church where she was an administrative assistant blames the devil. Papers filed with a theft charge Wednesday in Snohomish County Superior Court say the 62-year-old Arlington woman told detectives "Satan had a big part in the theft."

The Everett Herald reported the woman was accused of forging the pastor's signature on 80 checks from the Arlington Free Methodist church. She was fired in February 2008.

She told detectives she used the money to cover household expenses because she couldn't stand the thought of losing her home.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5inlV5QqPP8GO0rsEEVCUGiby8G5wD9719N781
LOL!

Probably... though it's been years since I've hung out with folks who believe along those lines!
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: graylockV on March 21, 2009, 12:44:48 AM
Get the behind my bankbook, Satan!

Meanwhile...here's another bit of info about a plumber and how he's feeling (I think I saw a movie about this once)...probably NSFW....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsgfJwWLgtk

Seems like Joe's got blue balls.  Three actually - the two between his legs and the big one on top of his neck.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: graylockV on March 21, 2009, 12:47:12 AM
What else can we expect from that creep, wasn't he in charge of the department formally known as the Inquisition?  ;D

Yes - the 'Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith':

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congregation_for_the_Doctrine_of_the_Faith

Your point, of course, is well taken.  Bit I'm still frankly a little shocked that they're saying something so stupid and genocidal at this point.  We know condoms work to prevent AIDS.  His predecessor was saying this sort of nonsense throughout the 80s and 90s.

Since he was Cardinal Ratzinger I like to think of him as Pope Rat I.

Perhaps if the Pope wore condoms more often he would have a more informed opinion of them. 
(I'll leave you with that imagery.)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Ellen (tellyouwhat) on March 21, 2009, 12:41:25 PM
^^^^^

Good for her, anyway. 
and you were wondering what to say to shrub if you ran into him in an elevator.  hah

lol you're quite right, I'll have this tattoo/d onto my forearm
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on March 24, 2009, 08:30:38 AM
China wants to create a new curency and to get rid of the dollar. Here comes our downfall. If they get what they want he will fall. Well. thanks to congress and not having a balance budget. Obama will get the blame for this one too. They owe about 13% of our debt, So I guess we willl have to been over. Go to the original link in the article for more details.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/23/china-calls-for-creation-_n_178271.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on March 24, 2009, 11:34:49 AM
Now AIG was has been doing fraud for 6 years now. I'm not surprised. I guess we never learned form ERON either. Its just goes to show we can never trust big business. Now its time shut them all down.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/24/aig-fraud-history_n_178545.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on March 24, 2009, 11:42:05 AM
Now for some good News. NPR is experiencing an all time listeningship. Good!! Love them.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/24/npr-achieves-record-ratin_n_178303.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on March 25, 2009, 04:44:18 PM
Man gets 90 days in jail in vacuum sex act case

Quote
(03-25) 13:48 PDT Saginaw, Mich. (AP) --

A man who police said was arrested for performing a sex act with a car wash vacuum was sentenced to 90 days in jail on Wednesday and ordered to submit to drug testing. The 29-year-old man pleaded no contest to indecent exposure last month.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/03/25/national/a134838D58.DTL&tsp=1 (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/03/25/national/a134838D58.DTL&tsp=1)

That really sucks.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Passion on March 25, 2009, 05:23:38 PM
Man gets 90 days in jail in vacuum sex act case

That really sucks.

You are hilarious! 
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Ennis Del Mark on March 25, 2009, 06:19:58 PM
Man gets 90 days in jail in vacuum sex act case

Quote
(03-25) 13:48 PDT Saginaw, Mich. (AP) --

A man who police said was arrested for performing a sex act with a car wash vacuum was sentenced to 90 days in jail on Wednesday and ordered to submit to drug testing. The 29-year-old man pleaded no contest to indecent exposure last month.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/03/25/national/a134838D58.DTL&tsp=1 (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/03/25/national/a134838D58.DTL&tsp=1)

That really sucks.



And the prosecutors said the case against the guy was in the bag.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Passion on March 25, 2009, 10:36:24 PM
And the prosecutors said the case against the guy was in the bag.
You guys are killing me!   :D
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: doodler on March 26, 2009, 06:36:34 AM
The guy's rich... his lawyer will sweep it under the carpet.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on March 26, 2009, 07:48:17 AM
My home town of Fargo is raising their dikes another foot. Lucky mt parents don't live in the flood plane. My younger brother was out there for 2 day helping with the dikes and sandbagging.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/26/fargo-nd-officials-to-rai_n_179432.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Passion on March 26, 2009, 04:29:59 PM
The guy's rich... his lawyer will sweep it under the carpet.
Stop!  I can't take it anymore!!!
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Ennis Del Mark on March 26, 2009, 04:59:12 PM
The defendant probably would have gotten off [again?] if only the case had been tried in California.  After all, the state motto is EUREKA!
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on March 26, 2009, 07:49:08 PM
Army vet billed $3,000 for war wounds

Erik Roberts, an Army sergeant who was wounded in Iraq, underwent his 13th surgery recently to save his right leg from amputation. Imagine his shock when he got a bill for $3,000 for his treatment.

"I just thought it was bull---- that I'm getting billed for being wounded in Iraq doing my job. I always put the mission first, and now that I was wounded in Iraq, they're sending me bills," he said.

"I put my life on the line and I was wounded in combat, and I came back and they're not going to take care of my medical bills?"

It's a level of outrage shared by his mother, as well as the doctor who performed the surgery.

"It's hard to understand why we're not taking care of guys like Erik whose injuries are clearly related to their service. They deserve the best care of anybody," said Dr. William Obremskey, an Air Force veteran and surgeon at Vanderbilt Orthopaedics in Nashville, Tennessee.

"For him to be responsible for $3,000, I think, is a little ridiculous or is uncalled for, particularly in this situation."

His mother, Robin Roberts, put it more succinctly: "Why should any soldier pay one penny of a medical bill from injuries that occurred while they were fighting in a war? That's what really frustrates me."

The Department of Veterans Affairs has now decided to pay his bill, but only after prodding from a U.S. senator who got involved after CNN brought it to his attention.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/03/26/wounded.warrior/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/03/26/wounded.warrior/index.html)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on March 26, 2009, 11:57:47 PM
one can hope that there will be a change of staffing at the department in the wake of the new administration.  this guy is clearly operating on previous administation standards (yeah, that's you mccain, mr i love the vets)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: doodler on March 27, 2009, 09:15:42 AM
The defendant probably would have gotten off [again?] if only the case had been tried in California.  After all, the state motto is EUREKA!

I'm sure it was a Dyson DC15 know as the Dyson "ball" because, quoting from their ad,
"the ball gives the DC15 the ability to pivot and twist into spaces with less effort by its handler."
Every ball needs a handler.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Passion on March 27, 2009, 10:14:53 AM
The guy and his vacuum actually made our local news last night!  The story was followed by the Pull Up Your Pants Day story!  Seriously I about fell out of bed laughing! 
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on March 30, 2009, 10:24:00 AM
I agree with this. Where is the outrage for the Bank's lack of a plan to change its ways.



http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20090330/pl_politico/20652;_ylt=AkYU_pfU5OUeJDExL0Q4T6qyFz4D
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Jer009 on March 31, 2009, 12:12:12 AM
My home town of Fargo is raising their dikes another foot. Lucky mt parents don't live in the flood plane. My younger brother was out there for 2 day helping with the dikes and sandbagging.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/26/fargo-nd-officials-to-rai_n_179432.html

Good luck, Tom. And good for your brother helping out with the sandbagging!
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: WhenPigsFly on March 31, 2009, 11:12:50 AM
Was this the thread where we were discussing the Kindle?

Josh Marshall of Talking Point Memo has gotten interested in Kindle books -- did you know you can download them onto your iPhone (talk about giving your eyes a workout)?  Now he owns the real thing and describes his ambivalence here: http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/03/two_more_quick_comments_on_books.php
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on March 31, 2009, 01:20:26 PM
I liked this line in the original article:

"There's a lot I miss about print newspapers, particularly the serendipitous
magic of finding stories adjacent to the one you're reading, articles you're
deeply interested in but never would have known you were if it weren't
plopped down in front of you to pull you in through your peripheral vision.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: doodler on March 31, 2009, 02:53:44 PM
Retired military officers say keep the gay ban...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090331/ap_on_re_us/gays_military
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: garyd on March 31, 2009, 04:11:08 PM
I liked this line in the original article:

"There's a lot I miss about print newspapers, particularly the serendipitous
magic of finding stories adjacent to the one you're reading, articles you're
deeply interested in but never would have known you were if it weren't
plopped down in front of you to pull you in through your peripheral vision.


Yes, that really struck a chord with me as well.
I can't imagine, don't want to imagine, being without a newspaper.

I admit, however, that I do enjoy the internet and the news sites.
I like being able to read theatre reviews the moment they are posted and to read film and book
reviews from various papers around the country.
I receive all sorts of information from the www and I think I am better informed than I was before it existed.

I also travel quite a bit, and I am seriously thinking of purchasing a Kindle or a Sony-reader.
They are so light weight and handy and easy to use on an airplane.
But, once again, I can't imagine a life without honest to god bound books. 

And as I posted in the last discussion we had on this topic, I really think there is a
future for a Kindle-like device for education textbooks. 
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: oilgun on March 31, 2009, 04:12:23 PM
Retired military officers say keep the gay ban...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090331/ap_on_re_us/gays_military

Quote
A statement issued by the retired officers Tuesday said passage of that bill "would undermine recruiting and retention, impact leadership at all levels, have adverse effects on the willingness of parents who lend their sons and daughters to military service, and eventually break the All-Volunteer Force."

Wow, gays have a lot of power if we can do ALL that, lol!

Anyway, now the dinosaurs have spoken.  Next.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: doodler on March 31, 2009, 04:29:47 PM
I always thought it odd how just one homesexual could undermine all the heterosexuals a kid comes in contact with daily... now it seems adults are just as susceptible.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: WhenPigsFly on March 31, 2009, 06:24:18 PM
I liked this line in the original article:

"There's a lot I miss about print newspapers, particularly the serendipitous
magic of finding stories adjacent to the one you're reading, articles you're
deeply interested in but never would have known you were if it weren't
plopped down in front of you to pull you in through your peripheral vision.



Yes, I saw that, too.  But doesn't the same thing happen to him online?  For me,  it's just a given that when I begin reading a news journal or blog, I'm going to get distracted by an unexpected and interesting article.   
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: WhenPigsFly on March 31, 2009, 06:26:42 PM
  I receive all sorts of information from the www and I think I am better informed than I was before it existed.
 

Me, too.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: garyd on March 31, 2009, 11:01:37 PM
  I receive all sorts of information from the www and I think I am better informed than I was before it existed.
 

Me, too.

I think what Michael and Lyle are saying is:
"in our great leap forward, what have we left behind and is the loss worth the leap?"
I think it is a fascinating question to which I do not have a definitive answer.
(Hell, I don't seem to have a definitive answer to ANYTHING these days)
But the "leap" is inevitable so how do we cope?
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: doodler on April 01, 2009, 10:25:57 AM
So the 2010 cars are already coming out, just about 6 months after the 2009 made their appearance. Does that mean the 2011 will be out in September? Or aren't there going to be any 2011?
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on April 01, 2009, 10:56:28 AM
I liked this line in the original article:

"There's a lot I miss about print newspapers, particularly the serendipitous
magic of finding stories adjacent to the one you're reading, articles you're
deeply interested in but never would have known you were if it weren't
plopped down in front of you to pull you in through your peripheral vision.


Yes, I saw that, too.  But doesn't the same thing happen to him online?  For me,  it's just a given that when I begin reading a news journal or blog, I'm going to get distracted by an unexpected and interesting article.   

Sure, I've had that happen.  I've spent whole days falling down the rabbit hole tracing links (for that experience see the Gay History section here  ::)). 

For me this is not the thing that I think is/was most important about journalism - it was the depth of investigative research.  I say 'was' because nowadays it seems that the 'entertainment value' of television has gotten in the way of journalism.  Everyone seems to want to be Bill O'Reilly or Geraldo Rivera now.  And that's weird, because actually even Geraldo started out doing some decent research - he did investigative reporting on Willowbrook State School, where developmentally disabled children were exposed to hepatitis for research purposes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willowbrook_State_School

I do think that television - and to a certain degree newspapers - have become 'infotainment' and so make themselves comparable to websites.  And some websites are becoming trying to be investigative reporters as well.  So I think that regarding this there is a blurring going on now.  But a lot of electronic 'political' sites have no big effect (other than getting large numbers of web addresses for spam).  I don't fill in online petitions or take part in a large numbers of electronic polls for exactly this reason - I feel that they have no effect.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on April 01, 2009, 11:03:05 AM
  I receive all sorts of information from the www and I think I am better informed than I was before it existed.
 

Me, too.

During the 80s and early 90s I was involved in an organization called 'The Documentation of AIDS Issues and Research.'  Every weekend we would go in and clip the weeks papers and file them in subject headings - insurance problems, discrimination, etc.  When I was doing this I became aware how ephemeral most information was - articles about hospitals breaking rules regarding patient confidentiality would appear and then you would hear nothing more about them.

So I felt pretty well informed back then too.  But, much like with the web, you notice that newswire articles had the nature of reporting on things and then dropping them.  So both media have the tendency to send people down blind alleys (and lead to hysteria - remember Y2K?).
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on April 01, 2009, 11:10:39 AM
I think what Michael and Lyle are saying is:
"in our great leap forward, what have we left behind and is the loss worth the leap?"
I think it is a fascinating question to which I do not have a definitive answer.
(Hell, I don't seem to have a definitive answer to ANYTHING these days)
But the "leap" is inevitable so how do we cope?

Well there is certainly that.  And there is also a question about the quality of the information on the web - and the addictive and ephemeral nature of electronic media.  Have you heard of the book 'Cult of the Amateur'?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_the_Amateur

And, of course, the related article 'Is Google Making Us Stupid':

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200807/google

The 'Cult of the Amateur' website has some interesting input on 'twitter' here:

http://andrewkeen.typepad.com/the_great_seduction/2009/03/in-a-generally-critical-toronto-globe-and-mail-columnist-margaret-wente-gives-four-possible-explanations-of-why-is-it-really.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on April 01, 2009, 11:47:33 AM

I liked this line in the original article:

"There's a lot I miss about print newspapers, particularly the serendipitous
magic of finding stories adjacent to the one you're reading, articles you're
deeply interested in but never would have known you were if it weren't
plopped down in front of you to pull you in through your peripheral vision.


Yes, I saw that, too.  But doesn't the same thing happen to him online?  For me,  it's just a given that when I begin reading a news journal or blog, I'm going to get distracted by an unexpected and interesting article.   

The point of the article, though, wasn't being on the net, it was using a kindle.
The other day I was looking for info on something in a book.  Flipping through the
pages I happened to notice something else that related to what I was looking for.
That would never happen on a kindle.  You don't "flip" through pages on a kindle.
You GO to this page or that page. 
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on April 01, 2009, 11:54:55 AM
Steven Colbert on newspapers:

“A ‘newspaper’ is like a blog that leaves ink on your hands and covers topics other than how much you love Fall Out Boy.”

"The Newspaper Association of America or NAA is named for the noise Americans make when you ask them if they care about the thoughtful analysis of current events...NAAAAAAA"
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on April 01, 2009, 12:05:44 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^

Good one.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: WhenPigsFly on April 01, 2009, 12:14:33 PM


 For me this is not the thing that I think is/was most important about journalism - it was the depth of investigative research.  

Why is there an assumption that there'll be no "true" investigative reporting if it's done electionically?

Talking Points Memo has long been credited with bringing the DOJ's firings to light (and in the process helped bring down a NM senator).

And Arianna Huffington left little doubt this week that she's going to continue to be a ground breaker in blogosphere news when she announced that HuffPo  will now have an investigative reporting arm.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/announcing-the-launch-of-_b_180543.html

While I fully expect to see Investigative Names among those whose stories are published online, I'll also be surprised if some of the first-rate reporters she uses in this venture weren't found among the much- derided, so-called Cheetos chompers who've been turning out quality reporting for years.
 
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on April 01, 2009, 12:40:33 PM

 For me this is not the thing that I think is/was most important about journalism - it was the depth of investigative research.  

Why is there an assumption that there'll be no "true" investigative reporting if it's done electionically?

I don't think I'm assuming this.  I was reflecting on what I liked about newspaper journalism in the past.  I think that there will continue to be investigative reporting online - although some of it (I'm looking at you Daily Kos) require that you have an aluminum hat at ready disposal to block out the bad rays.

Of course while I'm getting nostalgic about newspapers it's important to remember having to slog through lots of articles about home and garden shows and how to make a perfect polenta between those investigative pieces too.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Dal on April 01, 2009, 05:30:51 PM
Why is there an assumption that there'll be no "true" investigative reporting if it's done electionically?
There will be a lot less of it.  Every single publicatition has fired most of its reporters, on its way to on-line-only.  Obviously, there's no a priori reason why good reporting cannot be publiched in any medium at all;  just so happens, that economics of the news and advertising seems not to support many reporters any more.  Real reporters that is, not 'breaking news' reporters.

Talking Points & Huffington have had and will have some success.  But in the whole of the news front, how wide and deep is the quaity of coverage going to be?  There are some good places;  you have to pay, though.  And as I said, they've cut staff way back.



BTW listening to NPR just now.  Armed Serv. Comm. talling to the Pentagon spokesman re upcoming stuff in Afghanistan;  and I find they are talking about Pakistan too, as though we were at war there too indefinitely.  Everybody took it right in stride. 

Pentagon: We have been successful in Iraq.  We are being attacked only 10 to 18 times a day now.
Congressman:   Now that we've been successful in Iraq, would you say that Afghanistan is the front line in out War Against Terror?
Pentagon: Afghanistan and Pakistan.
Congressman:   Oh yes, Afghanistan and Pakistan.
Pentagon:  Yes, we consider Afghanistan and Pakistan the current front line of our War Againt Terror.

Am I the only one who find this very, very deeply disturbing, for all sorts of reasons?  For instance, I had really thought the war unlimited in time or space or goal would disappear, as of 1/20.  Guess not, though. 

And BTW, where are the reporters?  USA going straight to hell; nobody to cover it.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: WhenPigsFly on April 01, 2009, 06:22:12 PM
Speaking of investigative reporters: Amy Goodman of Democracy Now! and blogger/reporter Glenn Greenwald were presented with the first Izzy Award for independent media on Tuesday by Ithaca College's Park Center for Independent Media. 

I.F. Stone's son, Jeremy, presented the awards, and gave a glowing tribute to his iconic father who spent many years reporting via a self-published weekly newsletter.   http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/04/01-15
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: WhenPigsFly on April 01, 2009, 06:29:16 PM


  Every single publicatition has fired most of its reporters, on its way to on-line-only. 

 

Do you have names of papers?

Quote
There are some good places;  you have to pay, though.


Explain, please.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on April 01, 2009, 07:51:25 PM
In your lifetime 'High Fidelity' by Nick Hornby may become a historical novel.

Virgin Megastores in US to close
By James Quinn, Wall Street Correspondent
Last Updated: 4:13PM GMT 16 Mar 2009

The shops – including its well-known flagship on Times Square – are to be shuttered as a result of increasing rents and falling sales of CD’s and DVD’s as more consumers buy online.

Virgin, which opened its first store on Hollywood’s Sunset Boulevard in December 1992, became known in the ‘States for championing certain artists by staging in-store events which attracted fans.

continues:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/mediatechnologyandtelecoms/5001101/Virgin-Megastores-in-US-to-close.html

I worked at record stores from 1977 through 1984.  I've known a number of incredible people (as well as incredibly strange people) who worked in them - people with encyclopedic memories and the ability to make weird intuitive leaps that could connect the most unexpected types of sounds.

To the degree that this is ending (and I don't mean to overstate it - there are still independents like Amoeba Music and Other Music in large cities) I will very much miss it.  I already miss the classical music stores that have left San Francisco - if I want to go to a good classical store now I have to cross the bay and go to Berkeley (which may eventually be come the cultural equivalent of a hippie Amish village).

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Dal on April 01, 2009, 09:44:35 PM

  Every single publicatition has fired most of its reporters, on its way to on-line-only. 
 
Do you have names of papers?
NY and LA Times, and Wash. Post have liad off of their newsrooms.  That's offhand - the weekly mags etc also have had to do it.  In the US, that is -- not sure about the UK. 
Quote from: JD
Quote from: Dal
There are some good places;  you have to pay, though.
Explain, please.
NY and LA times run free on line.  Christian Sci. Monitor will rum free, weekly, starting in a coupla weeks.  Al Jazeera is free.  But Economist, RGE Monitor, Amer Conservative, Wall St Journal and hosts of others give you  a little free access, to see if you like it;  then you have to subscribe for $$. 

In your lifetime 'High Fidelity' by Nick Hornby may become a historical novel. [etc -- snipped for brevity]

Wahh!  Tower closed, and now HRM.  There is nothing like spending lazy time in a record store -- the Internet offers no substitute, that I can see.  I found so many of my favorite records just by chance, going thru the racks of LPs (yes, I am old), and then CDs.  And you're right, Michael -- some people that work in such stores know everything about their chosen genre.  Everything!  I hope, I hope I hope the tiny stores will stick around.  There's a gospel store here -- amazing stuff.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: WhenPigsFly on April 01, 2009, 10:55:36 PM

  Every single publicatition has fired most of its reporters, on its way to on-line-only. 
 
Do you have names of papers?
NY and LA Times, and Wash. Post have liad off of their newsrooms.  That's offhand - the weekly mags etc also have had to do it.  In the US, that is -- not sure about the UK. 
 

Whew!  When you said "Every single publication has fired most of its reporters..." I thought YOU had a scoop!
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on April 01, 2009, 10:58:31 PM
in the internet's defense, in the early days of napster, i had a field day searching exotic recordings and artists, and even going into some posters' shared files folders and perusing their collections.  far more varied than any record store i had ever visited.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on April 02, 2009, 11:48:53 AM
in the internet's defense, in the early days of napster, i had a field day searching exotic recordings and artists, and even going into some posters' shared files folders and perusing their collections.  far more varied than any record store i had ever visited.

You had to look around to find good record stores.  That was half the fun.  I went to Los Angeles in the 80s and looked through tower, went to small independent electronic music store in Philadelphia in the 90s, and Wax Trax in Chicago and Rough Trade in San Francisco and London in the 80s and 90s.  It was incredible - and it was also social - I met friends that I still have from this time.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on April 02, 2009, 12:16:58 PM
Virgin Megastores in US to close
By James Quinn, Wall Street Correspondent
Last Updated: 4:13PM GMT 16 Mar 2009

Telling in that article is that The US Virgin Megastores business was bought by two
leading property companies, Related and Vornado Realty Trust, in 2007.


Why did a Realty company buy this chain of stores?

Because they wanted the properties.  They were not interested in the businesses.
First, any Virgin store that did NOT own the property they were located on was closed.

The article says: In their place, Related and Vornado hope to attract retail or other
tenants who can justify paying the higher rents the two companies hope for.


"Paying higher rents the companies hope for."  That's what they wanted.  In this
economy they were not interested in keeping the stores open (that they owned!),
but replacing them with tenants who can pay HIGHER rents.   Let's just say that
the NY Virgin store made 40 million dollars last year instead of 56.  That means
the property company is not interested in a tenant that makes 40 million dollars
a year! 

Quote
The six stores book approximately $170m in sales a year.

If you had a business with six stores that each took in an average of $28.3
million dollars a year, wouldn't you think that was pretty successful?

This current attitude of if it didn't make as much as it did at it's best year,
so we should close it down
would mean movie theatres would have been
gone in the 1950's when television came on the scene, for example.

Things we are losing:
There's a bookstore on 3rd Street in L.A. that has been open for 30 years and
sells nothing but cookbooks.  They attract professional chefs and beginner's
alike who come and share with each other.  A meeting place of like minded
individuals.  But the store is closing.  The owner says that, while the store is
as crowded as ever, what people do is come to see everything that is available
and still have their "social" experience like they used to, but instead of buying
the things at the bookstore, they then go home and buy what they want off the
computer.

This tells me that people still like the things that the internet can't give you.
A social setting where you can discuss things, like books or movies or talk
to people in person, like everyone used to, but now they don't then buy the
products there.  They take what the store owners have paid to give them and then
spend the money on Amazon or whatever.  Then what happens when all of these
stores close?  What do the people do then?

I visited the Hollywood Virgin store a couple weeks ago.  Just walking through it
I found a myriad of things on dvd and books that I did not know existed!  And I am
one who looks information up on the internet about the same things!  I do not like
to lose the good things that are out there.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: oilgun on April 02, 2009, 12:57:22 PM
Virgin Megastores in US to close
By James Quinn, Wall Street Correspondent
Last Updated: 4:13PM GMT 16 Mar 2009

Telling in that article is that The US Virgin Megastores business was bought by two
leading property companies, Related and Vornado Realty Trust, in 2007.


Why did a Realty company buy this chain of stores?

Because they wanted the properties.  They were not interested in the businesses.
First, any Virgin store that did NOT own the property they were located on was closed.

The article says: In their place, Related and Vornado hope to attract retail or other
tenants who can justify paying the higher rents the two companies hope for.


"Paying higher rents the companies hope for."  That's what they wanted.  In this
economy they were not interested in keeping the stores open (that they owned!),
but replacing them with tenants who can pay HIGHER rents.   Let's just say that
the NY Virgin store made 40 million dollars last year instead of 56.  That means
the property company is not interested in a tenant that makes 40 million dollars
a year! 

Quote
The six stores book approximately $170m in sales a year.

If you had a business with six stores that each took in an average of $28.3
million dollars a year, wouldn't you think that was pretty successful?

This current attitude of if it didn't make as much as it did at it's best year,
so we should close it down
would mean movie theatres would have been
gone in the 1950's when television came on the scene, for example.

Things we are losing:
There's a bookstore on 3rd Street in L.A. that has been open for 30 years and
sells nothing but cookbooks.  They attract professional chefs and beginner's
alike who come and share with each other.  A meeting place of like minded
individuals.  But the store is closing.  The owner says that, while the store is
as crowded as ever, what people do is come to see everything that is available
and still have their "social" experience like they used to, but instead of buying
the things at the bookstore, they then go home and buy what they want off the
computer.

This tells me that people still like the things that the internet can't give you.
A social setting where you can discuss things, like books or movies or talk
to people in person, like everyone used to, but now they don't then buy the
products there.  They take what the store owners have paid to give them and then
spend the money on Amazon or whatever.  Then what happens when all of these
stores close?  What do the people do then?

I visited the Hollywood Virgin store a couple weeks ago.  Just walking through it
I found a myriad of things on dvd and books that I did not know existed!  And I am
one who looks information up on the internet about the same things!  I do not like
to lose the good things that are out there.




This is a great example IMO of why the Capitalist system is so flawed.  It's based on constant growth.  If a company makes $10 million profit one year and then 9 million the next, they call it a loss!  I just can't wrap my little socialist mind around that obscene concept.  Not a very sustainable model at all.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: doodler on April 02, 2009, 01:33:14 PM
That's not exactly true... a loss is when you don't cover expenses. My profit fluctuates wildly from year to year and depends on  any number of things (many of which, like the economy, are out of my control. Oddly, I've already made as much this year as all of last year.

Lyle is right that the new owners weren't the least bit interested in what they bought except for what they wanted to do with the property. It will either be a smart move on their part or it won't. And THAT's what makes capitalism work.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: oilgun on April 02, 2009, 02:28:33 PM
That's not exactly true... a loss is when you don't cover expenses. My profit fluctuates wildly from year to year and depends on  any number of things (many of which, like the economy, are out of my control. Oddly, I've already made as much this year as all of last year.

Lyle is right that the new owners weren't the least bit interested in what they bought except for what they wanted to do with the property. It will either be a smart move on their part or it won't. And THAT's what makes capitalism work.

I'm really not well versed in Business so I'm sure you are right.  But it isn't the impression I get from reading newspapers is that when a company makes LESS profit one year it's seen as a loss and the stocks go down and the stock-holders get pissed.  I'll go back to the movie thread now  ;)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: garyd on April 02, 2009, 04:04:00 PM


I'm really not well versed in Business so I'm sure you are right.  But it isn't the impression I get from reading newspapers is that when a company makes LESS profit one year it's seen as a loss and the stocks go down and the stock-holders get pissed.  I'll go back to the movie thread now  ;)


Nah, come on oilgun, stick around.  I always enjoy your posts regarding films.  And it is always great to get a fresh perspective over here in the “news” room.
Doodler , of course, is quite correct in her definition of loss.  A loss can also be incurred without actually “losing money”.  A paper loss can occur due to depreciation and other assorted “one time” write offs.
You are correct too, however, in pointing out a glaring “flaw” with capitalism.
There is , indeed, an immense pressure to “grow” no matter what.  Companies that fall into the Alice in Wonderland scenario of “running as fast as they can just to stay in one place” often fail.  Investors of publicly traded companies do exert pressure for constant growth and there are only a few ways this can be achieved. The company must increase market share for existing products, introduce successful new product lines, or merge and/or acquire other healthy businesses. 
The irony here is that if a company is only managed for growth instead of a combination of growth and sustainability it is also likely to fail. And uncontrolled merger and acquisition activity can curtail healthy competition, productivity, and invention.
The great advantage of properly managed and regulated capitalism is that it very much follows the laws of nature as they apply to the “survival of the fittest”.  In order to survive, a business must continue to improve its products through innovation and efficiency.
This, conversely, is the great “flaw” of socialism (as it is applied to business).  The motivation for improvement is removed and the state ends up sustaining enterprises that should be allowed to become extinct.  Ironically, therefore, a system that theoretically should control needless waste and consumerism ends up being even more wasteful and much less productive and inventive. 

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on April 02, 2009, 09:12:49 PM
i don't know about anyone else, but i am beside myself waiting for news from either vermont or iowa.  iowa is deciding the constitutionality of same sex marriage or the ban thereof, and vermont's house of reps is considering a bill already overwhelmingly passed by the vermont senate legalizing gay marriage.  apparently the politically minded gop governor intends to veto it if passed, but several legislators intend to change there votes in an attempt to override that veto, in response to his preemptive announcement, which was seen as interfering with the legislative process.  both are a tossup, both are important in their own ways.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: doodler on April 02, 2009, 11:58:53 PM


I'm really not well versed in Business so I'm sure you are right.  But it isn't the impression I get from reading newspapers is that when a company makes LESS profit one year it's seen as a loss and the stocks go down and the stock-holders get pissed.  I'll go back to the movie thread now  ;)


Nah, come on oilgun, stick around.  I always enjoy your posts regarding films.  And it is always great to get a fresh perspective over here in the “news” room.
Doodler , of course, is quite correct in her definition of loss.  A loss can also be incurred without actually “losing money”.  A paper loss can occur due to depreciation and other assorted “one time” write offs.
You are correct too, however, in pointing out a glaring “flaw” with capitalism.
There is , indeed, an immense pressure to “grow” no matter what.  Companies that fall into the Alice in Wonderland scenario of “running as fast as they can just to stay in one place” often fail.  Investors of publicly traded companies do exert pressure for constant growth and there are only a few ways this can be achieved. The company must increase market share for existing products, introduce successful new product lines, or merge and/or acquire other healthy businesses. 
The irony here is that if a company is only managed for growth instead of a combination of growth and sustainability it is also likely to fail. And uncontrolled merger and acquisition activity can curtail healthy competition, productivity, and invention.
The great advantage of properly managed and regulated capitalism is that it very much follows the laws of nature as they apply to the “survival of the fittest”.  In order to survive, a business must continue to improve its products through innovation and efficiency.
This, conversely, is the great “flaw” of socialism (as it is applied to business).  The motivation for improvement is removed and the state ends up sustaining enterprises that should be allowed to become extinct.  Ironically, therefore, a system that theoretically should control needless waste and consumerism ends up being even more wasteful and much less productive and inventive. 



And, of course, there is a huge difference between big, publically owned companies and small mom-and-pop businesses. Stockholders have a tendency to want continual growth and more return on their money while families are more apt to be content with contolling the market in their little corner of the neighborhood.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on April 03, 2009, 03:14:50 PM
okay... this is ridiculous.  two states have ratified gay marriage today, one in the legislature, and one UNANIMOUSLY by its supreme court and nobody brings it up buy this late in the day?

yay!
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: garyd on April 03, 2009, 03:55:13 PM
okay... this is ridiculous.  two states have ratified gay marriage today, one in the legislature, and one UNANIMOUSLY by its supreme court and nobody brings it up buy this late in the day?

yay!

Iowa and Vermont, right?
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: CANSTANDIT on April 03, 2009, 05:18:53 PM
Sorry, Jack, I'm not on the internet much at work except for here on DCF..I'm going to see what I can find out, though; this is indeed important....

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on April 03, 2009, 06:50:27 PM
nothing intended to be taken to heart by any individual, to be sure, i just thought we were a very broad network of well informed people.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on April 03, 2009, 10:41:34 PM
okay... this is ridiculous.  two states have ratified gay marriage today, one in the legislature, and one UNANIMOUSLY by its supreme court and nobody brings it up buy this late in the day?

yay!

It was posted almost immediately this morning:

Iowa Decision: Same-sex marriage ban unconstitutional

from the Des Moines Register.com, at http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20090403/NEWS/90403010


The Iowa Supreme Court this morning unanimously upheld gays’ right to marry.

“The Iowa statute limiting civil marriage to a union between a man and a woman violates the equal protection clause of the Iowa Constitution,” the justices said in a summary of their decision.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on April 03, 2009, 10:45:13 PM
nothing intended to be taken to heart by any individual, to be sure, i just thought we were a very broad network of well informed people.

Sorry Jack. I was at work all day and our internet connection has been very slow all week. It's worse than dialup, and it's very frustrating. But I was able to post a couple of comments in the other topic early this morning before I left the house.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: doodler on April 04, 2009, 12:15:52 AM
nothing intended to be taken to heart by any individual, to be sure, i just thought we were a very broad network of well informed people.

I started to copy and post a link to the Iowa story about 9 this morning but figured YOU would have already gotten it done!

Mid-west weddings to start in 20 days.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: doodler on April 04, 2009, 08:29:41 AM
With the latest mass shooting in NY, more Americans have been killed in the US than than service men/women in Iraq since the Inauguration.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on April 04, 2009, 12:17:05 PM
okay... this is ridiculous.  two states have ratified gay marriage today, one in the legislature, and one UNANIMOUSLY by its supreme court and nobody brings it up buy this late in the day?

As a Californian, I must relate that I simply have had a non-reaction
to this news.  After being jerked around about this issue in this state
so intensely for a year it feels like the whack-a-mole game.  Just
sticking your head out waiting for that hammer to strike again.

The California Supreme Court's hammer has two months left to come
whacking down on us again.  No one I know is expecting good news
about this.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Marge_Innavera on April 04, 2009, 01:18:23 PM
Yeah, God(dess) forbid anyone should regard it as good news.

The 20th century civil rights movement had a number of setbacks and took a long time.  This is an issue that obviously isn't going away, quick solutions or no.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: fritzkep on April 04, 2009, 02:25:44 PM
The one good thing is that the Iowa constitution is harder to amend than California's. Like Massachusetts, it requires two successive votes by both houses in two back to back sessions. So it couldn't be overturned until 2010 at the earliest.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on April 04, 2009, 02:49:24 PM
The one good thing is that the Iowa constitution is harder to amend than California's. Like Massachusetts, it requires two successive votes by both houses in two back to back sessions. So it couldn't be overturned until 2010 at the earliest.
and the leadership of the current iowa legislature has made it abundantly clear that it does not support nor will it forward a bill to amend the constitution on this matter.  that potential amendment will not see the light of day for 4-5 years if that, and by then the screamers worst fears will be realized, iowa will be come the gay marriage destination of choice for the midwest and the truly perverse, adding substantial generated income to iowa coffers.  my guess is that the fact that the sky doesn't fall, and there is a profit to be gleaned will dampen any enthusiasm for amendment.

iowa may yet prove to be the most significant same sex marriage state since massachusetts.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: fritzkep on April 04, 2009, 02:53:45 PM
Amen, Jack.

How delicious that Iowa be more progressive than California.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on April 04, 2009, 02:56:46 PM
re: vermont marriage issues

first clearing up a point i was discussing with a friend.  in vermont, unlike many other states  the governor cannot pocket veto, ie leaave the bill unsigned and therefor inactive.  his failure to sign is passive ratification, thus leaving him a way out, should he choose to take it.

barring that, the legislature is gearing up in a big way for an override attempt... on both sides.  it can't be fun to be a liberal republican or conservative democrat in vermont this weekend.

here is the latest reporting on that preparation i can find.

http://www.edgeboston.com/index.php?ch=news&sc=&sc2=news&sc3=&id=89282
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on April 04, 2009, 02:59:57 PM
and lyle...

there is at least a glimmer of hope that that unanimous decision, and the arguments used MIGHT put some extra steel in the spines of the cal supremes.

they make it clear that it is their DUTY to protect the disfavored minority.  different states, different constitutions, but they don't live in a vacuum.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on April 04, 2009, 06:09:21 PM
i can't say it any better than the author of the article...

Iowa Supreme Court Eviscerates the Right Wing Talking Points

http://www.tips-q.com/794675-iowa-supreme-court-eviscerates-right-wing-talking-points

the article, while brief, quotes the decision extensively.

enjoy.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on April 05, 2009, 02:40:06 PM
Yeah, God(dess) forbid anyone should regard it as good news.

The 20th century civil rights movement had a number of setbacks and took a long time.  This is an issue that obviously isn't going away, quick solutions or no.

I don't think my non-reaction to the news should imply that I think it is bad
news or that others should react the same.  But I don't live in Iowa and have
participated in a number of real highs and real lows over this issue the past
year.  According to the pundits, most are feeling that the CA Supreme Court is
going to uphold the valifity of Prop. 8.  So I am not ready to jump for joy again
at this time and then be at another low point when the decision here is made.
It can be too emotionally exhausting.

and lyle...

there is at least a glimmer of hope that that unanimous decision, and the
arguments used MIGHT put some extra steel in the spines of the cal
supremes.

they make it clear that it is their DUTY to protect the disfavored minority. 
different states, different constitutions, but they don't live in a vacuum.

This is quite true, but I believe the original decision by the Cal supremes
agreed with the statement of protecting the minority, but this issue of whether
Prop 8 is a revision or an amendment has clouded that issue and even though
it has been done once or twice before, they are reluctant to overturn these
propositions.

In any case, my emotions are on auto-pilot concerning this issue at the
moment, although my opinions are not.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: garyd on April 05, 2009, 03:25:21 PM
i can't say it any better than the author of the article...

Iowa Supreme Court Eviscerates the Right Wing Talking Points

http://www.tips-q.com/794675-iowa-supreme-court-eviscerates-right-wing-talking-points

the article, while brief, quotes the decision extensively.

enjoy.

It is an enjoyable  read.
The Cal Supreme Court did the exact same type of evisceration and it, too, was a joy to read.
As Lyle says so well, however, we have this whole revision/amendment thing here in CA
and the Court is going to find it difficult to go against the "will of the people". 
From what I have read, there is some hope that they can find a way to do it, but it will be difficult.
We will have to finally amend our Constitution, I think. 
I also think that will happen.
I suppose this sounds as though I am asking for patience. 
I am not.
This no longer deserves patience, it has gone on far too long.
Asking for patience in this case is the same as asking patience from blacks
back in the 1960's.  It is now,as it was then, insulting and an injustice.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: CANSTANDIT on April 05, 2009, 08:01:18 PM
The courts will have to force this through a  few more x before the states wake up.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on April 06, 2009, 12:08:05 AM
the patience of the affected and their supporters may very well have been exhausted, and the courts, and the law enforcement authorities, may find themselves dealing with civil unrest of a magnitude they didn't think possible.  i truly don't think some people will quietly wait any longer for their pittance, and non-violent means of persuasion may be put aside.  sometimes you have to get the mule's attention.  the carrot has been tried, maybe its past time for the stick.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: garyd on April 06, 2009, 11:49:00 AM
the patience of the affected and their supporters may very well have been exhausted, and the courts, and the law enforcement authorities, may find themselves dealing with civil unrest of a magnitude they didn't think possible.  i truly don't think some people will quietly wait any longer for their pittance, and non-violent means of persuasion may be put aside.  sometimes you have to get the mule's attention.  the carrot has been tried, maybe its past time for the stick.

Jack;
I am not sure how I am meant to interpret this post. (esp. the last sentence)
Are you simply "assessing the situation" as you see it
or are you advocating violence?
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on April 06, 2009, 01:28:00 PM
Jack;
I am not sure how I am meant to interpret this post. (esp. the last sentence)
Are you simply "assessing the situation" as you see it
or are you advocating violence?

Or nonviolent resistance?  In Southern Florida would this entail pulling adult mobility scooters into traffic?
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on April 06, 2009, 01:42:58 PM
the patience of the affected and their supporters may very well have been exhausted, and the courts, and the law enforcement authorities, may find themselves dealing with civil unrest of a magnitude they didn't think possible.  i truly don't think some people will quietly wait any longer for their pittance, and non-violent means of persuasion may be put aside.  sometimes you have to get the mule's attention.  the carrot has been tried, maybe its past time for the stick.

I think it's more likely that civil unrest would come from the other side, led by people like Glen Beck and Chuck Norris.




Quote
How much more will Americans take? When will enough be enough? And, when that time comes, will our leaders finally listen or will history need to record a second American Revolution? We the people have the authority according to America's Declaration of Independence, which states:

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience has shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

When I appeared on Glenn Beck's radio show, he told me that someone had asked him, "Do you really believe that there is going to be trouble in the future?" And he answered, "If this country starts to spiral out of control and Mexico melts down or whatever, if it really starts to spiral out of control, before America allows a country to become a totalitarian country (which it would have under I think the Republicans as well in this situation; they were taking us to the same place, just slower), Americans won't stand for it. There will be parts of the country that will rise up." Then Glenn asked me and his listening audience, "And where's that going to come from?" He answered his own question, "Texas, it's going to come from Texas. Do you agree with that Chuck?" I replied, "Oh yeah!" Definitely.


And we need to watch out for those sleeper cells!

Quote
Thousands of cell groups will be united around the country in solidarity over the concerns for our nation.




http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=91103 (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=91103)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on April 06, 2009, 02:11:43 PM
I think it's more likely that civil unrest would come from the other side, led by people like Glen Beck and Chuck Norris.

Well Glen Beck seems to be going through something of a meltdown these days - crying because he loves america so much.  ::)  However, your point is well taken - Jim David Adkisson attributed his motivation for shooting up the Knoxville Unitarian Universalist church to wanting to kill liberals who support homosexuals:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25872864

It's far more likely that the violence will come from the right than the left.  There were certainly enough people (like Eric Robert Rudolph, James Charles Kopp, Benjamin Williams, Matthew Williams, Benjamin Nathaniel Smith and Buford O. Furrow, Jr.) who presupposed Adkisson's attack.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on April 06, 2009, 04:12:50 PM
while i (wisely) may stop short of ADVOCATING violent responses, i seem to remember that the left i knew was quite capable of riots and destructive actions.  weathermen, act up, white nights, panthers anyone ?
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: garyd on April 06, 2009, 04:34:16 PM
while i (wisely) may stop short of ADVOCATING violent responses, i seem to remember that the left i knew was quite capable of riots and destructive actions.  weathermen, act up, white nights, panthers anyone ?

Yes, they were capable of all that you say.
I wonder,however, if their capabilities really were in tune with Jefferson's
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood  of patriots and tyrants."
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on April 06, 2009, 05:50:27 PM
while i (wisely) may stop short of ADVOCATING violent responses, i seem to remember that the left i knew was quite capable of riots and destructive actions.  weathermen, act up, white nights, panthers anyone ?

Yes, they were capable of all that you say.
I wonder,however, if their capabilities really were in tune with Jefferson's
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood  of patriots and tyrants."

By and large ACT-UP was nonviolent.  Irritating as all get out (I know, I helped!) but not violent.  The White Night riots were spontaneous and were not a planned event.  As for the panthers and weathermen, it would do well to remember that the weathermen blew themselves up before they blew anything else up - and they didn't get a lot of good publicity for 'the movement' when they did it.  And it's worthwhile remembering that a good number of the Panthers were killed by the FBI in 1969.

However, by and large this is an academic exercise, imho.  The people behind the marriage movement are not the bomb throwing sort.  Their goal, after all, is to settle down and raise families.  So you won't likely find too many Guy Fawkes or Leon Czolgosz wannabes among them (I would guess).

As for Jefferson, I often think it would do Americans a lot of good to remember how supportive he was of the French Revolution.  We see him (rightly so) as one of the founding fathers, but we tend to forget that he was supportive of one of the most bloody revolutions in history - not unequivocally, but then again neither was De Sade.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: alma on April 06, 2009, 06:05:04 PM
Checking in. Just wanted to wave through cyber space. I have read the last few days of notes, miss posting here, was stunned to see that dear Osprey had died, thrilled for Dave's imminent blockbuster to be a tidal wave through the country, and missing all of you and your generosity to me during one of the hardest years of my life. My husband and I are indeed separated now and I just haven't had the emotional wherewithal to keep up with politics. Obama is in, and my hard work to get him there is done. I'm mostly in process, trying to figure out my future, how to be a whole and healthy person while I weigh the pros and cons of divorce when we have five children who love us as an intact family.

All that to say: my heart is still very much here, just not sure where to post or when or on what topic. But I hold this space as a sacred one in my heart and mind. Love to all.

alma/Julie
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: garyd on April 06, 2009, 06:45:21 PM

By and large ACT-UP was nonviolent.  Irritating as all get out (I know, I helped!) but not violent.  The White Night riots were spontaneous and were not a planned event.  As for the panthers and weathermen, it would do well to remember that the weathermen blew themselves up before they blew anything else up - and they didn't get a lot of good publicity for 'the movement' when they did it.  And it's worthwhile remembering that a good number of the Panthers were killed by the FBI in 1969.

However, by and large this is an academic exercise, imho.  The people behind the marriage movement are not the bomb throwing sort.  Their goal, after all, is to settle down and raise families.  So you won't likely find too many Guy Fawkes or Leon Czolgosz wannabes among them (I would guess).

As for Jefferson, I often think it would do Americans a lot of good to remember how supportive he was of the French Revolution.  We see him (rightly so) as one of the founding fathers, but we tend to forget that he was supportive of one of the most bloody revolutions in history - not unequivocally, but then again neither was De Sade.

All well put, as usual.
Agreed, it is an academic exercise but a little toning of the academic can't hurt.
I have always been a bit of two minds in my thoughts regarding the Jefferson quote .  I sometimes think I want to disagree with it but i can never
can come to that conclusion .
The aftermath of the French Revolution was certainly bloody and horrific.  One also wonders why Jefferson was such an advocate. 
There was some personal involvement there, I think.
One shudders to think how bloody the aftermath of the American Rev. had we lost.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: garyd on April 06, 2009, 06:47:58 PM
Checking in. Just wanted to wave through cyber space. I have read the last few days of notes, miss posting here, was stunned to see that dear Osprey had died, thrilled for Dave's imminent blockbuster to be a tidal wave through the country, and missing all of you and your generosity to me during one of the hardest years of my life. My husband and I are indeed separated now and I just haven't had the emotional wherewithal to keep up with politics. Obama is in, and my hard work to get him there is done. I'm mostly in process, trying to figure out my future, how to be a whole and healthy person while I weigh the pros and cons of divorce when we have five children who love us as an intact family.

All that to say: my heart is still very much here, just not sure where to post or when or on what topic. But I hold this space as a sacred one in my heart and mind. Love to all.

alma/Julie

How delightful to hear from you.  I so very much enjoyed and appreciated your posts during the election season.
Of course, I did not know of your personal travails. 
My very best wishes and thoughts
G
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on April 06, 2009, 10:02:46 PM
Lovely to see you here Julie.  Please take care of yourself - separations are a big deal emotionally - not that I need to tell you this, but it doesn't hurt either.

 :-*

Checking in. Just wanted to wave through cyber space. I have read the last few days of notes, miss posting here, was stunned to see that dear Osprey had died, thrilled for Dave's imminent blockbuster to be a tidal wave through the country, and missing all of you and your generosity to me during one of the hardest years of my life. My husband and I are indeed separated now and I just haven't had the emotional wherewithal to keep up with politics. Obama is in, and my hard work to get him there is done. I'm mostly in process, trying to figure out my future, how to be a whole and healthy person while I weigh the pros and cons of divorce when we have five children who love us as an intact family.

All that to say: my heart is still very much here, just not sure where to post or when or on what topic. But I hold this space as a sacred one in my heart and mind. Love to all.

alma/Julie
Title: Cheyenne, Wyoming Holds First AIDS Walk Despite Blizzard
Post by: Jer009 on April 06, 2009, 11:31:56 PM
http://www.towleroad.com/2009/04/cheyenne-wyoming-holds-first-aids-walk-despite-blizzard-1.html

Now that's dedication! It does my heart good that people in Wyoming will brave a blizzard to contribute to their first AIDS walk.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: alma on April 07, 2009, 06:54:39 AM
Thanks guys for your sweet replies. :) I'll try to check in more often.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on April 07, 2009, 08:57:27 AM
Stage Set For Veto Showdown In Montpelier (http://www.wptz.com/news/19100485/detail.html)
The veto of a marriage bill finalized by the Vermont Legislature kicks in motion an historic showdown.
Click Here To Watch Live Statehouse Footage (http://www.wptz.com/video/11306790/index.html) | Interactive Map (http://www.wptz.com/nationalnews/19086439/detail.html) | Override Veto? (http://www.wptz.com/index.html#)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on April 07, 2009, 09:03:19 AM
Vermont House has voted to override the veto
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: doodler on April 07, 2009, 09:03:24 AM
Stevens conviction to be overturned?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090407/ap_on_go_ot/stevens
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on April 07, 2009, 09:14:15 AM
(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj282/SanFranciscoJohn/vermont.jpg) (http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/)
 
http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/ (http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on April 07, 2009, 09:25:27 AM
Gay man appointed to Obama faith council

Washington, D.C. — The White House has announced nine new appointments to the federal government's faith-based initiative.

Harry Knox, an openly gay man, is among the new appointments announced Monday to President Obama's Advisory Council to the White House Office of Faith-Based & Neighborhood Partnerships.

Knox is the director of Human Rights Campaign's religion and faith program and is a former pastor of a United Methodist Church in Georgia.  HRC is a Washington-based gay rights group.

"I hope this council will draw upon the richness of our unique perspectives to advise the president on policies that will improve the lives of all the people we have been called to serve," Knox said in a statement.  "The [gay and lesbian] community is eager to help the administration achieve its goals around economic recovery and fighting poverty, fatherhood and healthy families; inter-religious dialogue; care for the environment; and global poverty, health and development."

http://www.chicagopride.com/news/article.cfm/articleid/7186896 (http://www.chicagopride.com/news/article.cfm/articleid/7186896)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on April 07, 2009, 11:07:37 AM
Thanks guys for your sweet replies. :) I'll try to check in more often.


PLease do!!!
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on April 07, 2009, 12:31:19 PM
Frankin gain more votes after they just opened a few absentee ballot. 87 more votes.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/07/franken-picks-up-87-votes_n_184101.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on April 07, 2009, 01:18:54 PM
Porn Icon Jack Wrangler Dead at 62

Legendary porn star turned musical theatre actor Jack Wrangler passed away last night, according to director Jeffrey Schwarz, whose recent documentary Wrangler: Anatomy of An Icon captured the legacy of the late star.

http://www.advocate.com/news_detail_ektid77929.asp (http://www.advocate.com/news_detail_ektid77929.asp)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on April 07, 2009, 02:45:21 PM
So, will Obama get alot of flack for this or not?


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/06/obama-us-not-a-christian_n_183772.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on April 07, 2009, 04:48:50 PM
Porn Icon Jack Wrangler Dead at 62

Legendary porn star turned musical theatre actor Jack Wrangler passed away last night, according to director Jeffrey Schwarz, whose recent documentary Wrangler: Anatomy of An Icon captured the legacy of the late star.

http://www.advocate.com/news_detail_ektid77929.asp (http://www.advocate.com/news_detail_ektid77929.asp)

Oh how sad!  Poor Margaret!
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on April 07, 2009, 05:02:16 PM
my generation is dropping like flies  :o  :(
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: WhenPigsFly on April 07, 2009, 06:06:26 PM

FYI: Last night on Larry King's show, Rick Warren reminded viewers that he's not anti-gay marriage. 
That's what he said, folks. 

And more:  http://www.pamshouseblend.com/diary/10284/rick-warren-lies-about-his-homobigotry-on-larry-king-live

And evidently Larry King responded in typical King fashion and went on to another topic.
 
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on April 08, 2009, 09:37:33 AM
2008 Tax Records Reveal Sasha Obama Made $136 In Allowance Money

(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj282/SanFranciscoJohn/2008-Tax-R_article.jpg)

WASHINGTON—Sasha Obama testified before the Senate Committee on Finance this week after it was revealed that the second-grader had collected more than $136 in undisclosed allowance payments over the past year.

Sasha, who has been under fire from congressional leaders since her 2008 tax records were made public earlier this month, arrived at the Capitol to address accusations that she received dozens of federal dollars for completing the most basic of household chores.

"Ms. Obama, I've examined your records and what I've found sickens me," said ranking committee member Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-IA), addressing the 7-year-old as she shifted nervously in her chair. "How could you, during this time of economic turmoil—during this time of economic despair—accept nearly 50 cents for making your bed?"
Added Grassley, "Have you no shame at all?"

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/2008_tax_records_reveal_sasha?utm_source=a-section (http://www.theonion.com/content/news/2008_tax_records_reveal_sasha?utm_source=a-section)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on April 08, 2009, 11:11:35 AM
So what do you all think about this. Should we nationalize the banks? I don't know. All I know is that is Obama doesn't go after these people some how he will get blamed, and we will be with The GOP after the 2010 election and he'll be out in 4, like Carter was. Again, if the GOP win in 2010 in battle ground states they can take control of the redistricting, and they will make it hard the Dem's to regain control. Just a vicious cycle.

The Congressional Oversight Panel, in a report released yesterday, also said the Treasury may be relying on too rosy an economic scenario to guide its $700 billion bailout, and declared that the success of the program after six months is “mixed.” Three of the group’s members disagreed with at least some of the findings.

“All successful efforts to address bank crises have involved the combination of moving aside failed management and getting control of the process of valuing bank balance sheets,” the panel, headed by Harvard Law School Professor Elizabeth Warren, said in its report.  


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aJJ_MkIv9VvA&refer=home
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on April 08, 2009, 11:15:37 AM
Franken gain more votes after they just opened a few absentee ballot. 87 more votes.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/07/franken-picks-up-87-votes_n_184101.html

My favorite part of this article:  "Minnesotans are starting to groan."
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: oilgun on April 08, 2009, 11:23:30 AM
So what do you all think about this. Should we nationalize the banks? I don't know. All I know is that is Obama doesn't go after these people some how he will get blamed, and we will be with The GOP after the 2010 election and he'll be out in 4, like Carter was. Again, if the GOP win in 2010 in battle ground states they can take control of the redistricting, and they will make it hard the Dem's to regain control. Just a vicious cycle.

The Congressional Oversight Panel, in a report released yesterday, also said the Treasury may be relying on too rosy an economic scenario to guide its $700 billion bailout, and declared that the success of the program after six months is “mixed.” Three of the group’s members disagreed with at least some of the findings.

“All successful efforts to address bank crises have involved the combination of moving aside failed management and getting control of the process of valuing bank balance sheets,” the panel, headed by Harvard Law School Professor Elizabeth Warren, said in its report.  




http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aJJ_MkIv9VvA&refer=home

Yes, nationalize the banks, fix them and then sell them back to private interests so the government can get money from the sales.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on April 08, 2009, 12:02:54 PM
Franken gain more votes after they just opened a few absentee ballot. 87 more votes.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/07/franken-picks-up-87-votes_n_184101.html

My favorite part of this article:  "Minnesotans are starting to groan."


Most poeple in MN are mostly pissed at the whole thing. Tired of it all. Coleman will drag this out until he gets what he wants. Until the Supreme Court steps in. So, if they do Coleman will be are Senator.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: tonydude on April 08, 2009, 04:21:50 PM
    Well, I think it's fair to consider what may be several mistakes, made this early, by the Obama Administration, and to express my own hope that they can be reversed.  The most recent was the President's statement, in Istanbul or Ankara, that the United States is not a Christian nation. He went on to say it wasn't Jewish or Islamic, either.  This didn't need to be said.
   Technically, he is right:  we have a secular government (thank God, and no pun intended).  But we are predominantly Christian, counting those who may not practice the faith but identify themselves with that tag.  Technically, Turkey is not an Islamic nation.  In fact, Ataturk, and his immediate followers were Freemasons.  But it is 99% Muslim, and if its President had followed Obama's lead, and said Turkey wasn't Muslim, he would have been tossed out the next day.  Over a technicality: cultural description vs. legal framework.
  We all know how Republicans win elections - with sound-bytes taken out of context.  Obama just gave them the ammo:  we are not a Christian nation.  Well of course we're not, by technical definition, and therein lies the safety of our liberty.  But the sound-byte will be fodder for suggesting Obama wants the historic heritage of the nation overthrown.  I repeat: it didn't need to be said.  And the President of Turkey, who wants his country to remain under a secular government, was wise enough not to follow suit.
  By the way, we are not absolutely secular/neutral with regard to the existence of a God.  All laws of this nation, including its Constitution, are legitimized by the Declaration of Independence, which established the right to revolt based on.....rights granted by God.  Essentially, Jefferson went over the legal authority of the monarchy to the fundamental authority of God.  (Trump THAT one, House of Hanover!).
  Next mistake, IMO, is the saber-rattling over Pakistan.  It may well be catastrophically foolish.  Yes, we need to strike within Pakistan, and yes, sometimes against the wishes of the Pakistani government.  But we are doing this promiscuously and openly, and too many civilian casualties, and the moderate government will collapse.  All for what?  To show the folks back home our leaving Iraq is not a sign of weakness, as we'll be revving up elsewhere?  We need to rev up, but not for political display.  I think Obama is taking a huge and unnecessary risk by not being more discrete in our cross-border forays.
  Finally, the President is stalling out all efforts of the Congress to find out just what Bush/Cheney did.  He's not even encouraging Senator Leahy's proposal to investigate and correct without a bloodbath of prosecutions.  I can see why looking back can distract from looking forward.  But in this case, careful, discrete commissions should hold hearings and quietly re-install the firewalls needed to preserve the rule of law.  It may be the last time a majority exists to provide for that.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: WhenPigsFly on April 08, 2009, 05:11:12 PM
  Finally, the President is stalling out all efforts of the Congress to find out just what Bush/Cheney did.  

And his liberal base is not pleased.

Besides that, Obama is having the DOJ dig in its heels and do its best impersonation of the Bush DOJ.  Just last week Obama's lawyers brought the arguments to a level that even Mukasey hadn't tried.  In a suit brought by individuals about Bush's illegal wiretapping, the Obama DOJ argued that the court can't hear the case not only because state secrets are involved, but because "sovereign immunity" applies. 

("In other words, the administration is arguing that the U.S. can never be sued for spying that violates federal surveillance statutes, whether FISA, the Wiretap Act or the SCA." -- plaintiffs' lawyer)


Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: huntinbuddy on April 08, 2009, 05:43:42 PM
Tony thank you for a very good, well thought out assessment.  I agree with most of what you said and weigh in with my own thoughts also; of course at the risk of being slapped.....which seems to occur here nearly everytime I offer anything.  Personally, I heard that remark also on a couple different newscasts last night where Obama said we are not a Christian nation, and thought oh doggies, here we go.  The United States was certainly established on Judeo-Christian values, as is evident in the Declaration of Independence which was adopted the by the Continental Congress when the original thirteen colonies or states were at war with Great Britain and were simply declaring their independence from the British empire.  The one sentence that sticks out with me is....We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

This statement alone is the basis of why this country was started, and a big part of this of course was the issue of taxation by the British, but no my knowledge, nowhere in the document is the word "Christian" mentioned.  Furthermore, many of the signers of this original document had slaves, some of them many slaves.  Doesn't seem logical to me the slaves really had a Life, Liberty or the pursuit of Happiness.  Religious Right groups and their allies insist that the United States was designed to be officially Christian and that our laws should enforce the doctrines of (their version of) Christianity. Is this viewpoint accurate? Is there anything in the Constitution that gives special treatment or preference to Christianity? Did the founders of our government believe this or intend to create a government that gave special recognition to Christianity?

The answer to all of these questions is no. The U.S. Constitution is a wholly secular document. It contains no mention of Christianity or Jesus Christ. In fact, the Constitution refers to religion only twice in the First Amendment, which bars laws "respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," and in Article VI, which prohibits "religious tests" for public office. Both of these provisions are evidence that the country was not founded as officially Christian.  The Founding Fathers did not create a secular government because they disliked religion. Many were believers themselves. Yet they were well aware of the dangers of church-state union. They had studied and even seen first-hand the difficulties that church-state partnerships spawned in Europe. During the American colonial period, alliances between religion and government produced oppression and tyranny.

While I know a bit of history, and as a grade and high schooler, had to memorize large chunks of the Declaration of Independence and US (as well as my own state) Constitutions, I know this to be a fact.  But the problem is as you mentioned, the right wing, bible thumping TV preachers and some of the idiot Republicans and trash talking conservative talking heads are going to take this statement by Obama and run with it.  Myself, I know better, but unfortunately, the majority of Americans do not.  But what President Obama said is exactly true in the purest sense, we are not a Christian nation, nor a Jewish or Islamic nation.  Myself, I am a Christian, and I worship God in my own way, and love the freedom to do that.  If my neighbor is Islamic and wants to face east and pray to Mohammad, that is their right also.  It's why we live here and love America.

I could go on and respond to your other concerns but this post is getting very long.....but will just say President Obama did not inherit a good situation.  I truly believe he is trying to bring respect back to our country to countries we have throughly pissed off...especially the past eight years.  It is a huge responsibility, and along with the wrecked economy, he needs our prayers everyday.  I can't see really going after Bush/Cheney as being beneficial in any way right now.  There is just too much on the plate for the current administration to handle at the moment and Congress would be more divided than ever if they took up prosecutions of the previous administration, even if it was attempted to be handled discreetly.  Right now, people want jobs, they want to get back some if not all they have lost the past few months.  To go after Bush/Cheney right now could very well be political suicide for the new administration.  My biggest concern relates to some of the other things you mentioned; things like Pakistan, not to mention North Korea, and Iran.  All three of those countries are going to prove to be problematic for Obama.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: tonydude on April 08, 2009, 06:51:08 PM
   Huntinbuddy, thanks for the feedback, and am glad you saw my point that the fundamentalists will grab that sound byte and run with it.  I certainly don't mind, nor do I have a right to mind, what someone else's religious beliefs are; but the religious right wing ought not to have ammo served up on a platter, for their scare tactics, and I think a strategic mistake was made.

  As for investigating Bush/Cheney, I do see your point but still, reluctantly, disagree.  We are moving too quickly into an age of technological snooping by the government beyond anything imagined before.  Both liberals and conservatives should remember, the danger of abuse can come from either side, and should therefore insist on oversight, accountability, and strict adherence to no politicalization of the bureaucracies, especially the Justice Department.
  Am sorry if some do not always care for what you, yourself, post.  I've always liked what you've written, although, of course, have not always been in agreement. Life would be dull if we all thought the same.  Further, without discourse, we'd never develop our own thinking, but would be stagnant. You have good will - that's enough for me.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: huntinbuddy on April 08, 2009, 07:23:30 PM
Oh I agree, the Bush/Cheney years should be throughly investigated, but now is just not the time to start the process.  Get the economy back on track, folks back to work, and then go after it.  What needs to be done real soon, however is rescind large chunks of the Patriot Act.  That alone would go a long way to restoring confidence in our government.  The biggest thing that I always felt was out of line were the no-bid contracts Halliburton/KBR had (and I assume still has) there in Iraq.  Cheney got into the wallets of the American people far more that Bernie Madoff ever did with these.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: garyd on April 08, 2009, 07:33:11 PM
     I certainly don't mind, nor do I have a right to mind, what someone else's religious beliefs are; but the religious right wing ought not to have ammo served up on a platter, for their scare tactics, and I think a strategic mistake was made.

  As for investigating Bush/Cheney,

A tactical but not , I think, a strategic mistake.  The right wing nuts will always find "sound bites".  Obama spoke the truth and I admire him for doing so.

I share your concern regarding the whole Bush/Cheney situation.  I don't need to go into the specifics, you know what I mean.
I do, however, think it would be a strategic mistake to enter into an enormous investigation.  Whatever they did or did not do needs to be fixed and I guess I am putting my faith in the hope that it will be fixed.
An investigation would re-direct attention from so many things that need to be done and fuel incredible partisan conflict.
Perhaps we need, as a nation, a complete purging of what may have occurred but I have so little faith in our elected officials to proceed
in an appropriate manner that I simply do not want to endure the spectacle.
I  don't know,maybe my blood sugar is just low.  :) but I am so weary of screaming at one another and Obama, to his credit, appears
to have the ability to turn down the volume.
 
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Ellen (tellyouwhat) on April 08, 2009, 10:06:48 PM
^^^^^

I know -- it's sad everybody got so disgusted with the sex scandal in the Clinton years, they equate any type of investigation with partisan bickering.

Unfortunately for our nation and constitution.  :-\


huntinbuddy you are absolutely right about Cheney and Halliburton -- it amounts to raiding our treasury -- 8 years, take the money and run!

They acted like Corporate Raiders.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on April 09, 2009, 07:47:52 AM
^^^^^

I know -- it's sad everybody got so disgusted with the sex scandal in the Clinton years, they equate any type of investigation with partisan bickering.

Unfortunately for our nation and constitution.  :-\


huntinbuddy you are absolutely right about Cheney and Halliburton -- it amounts to raiding our treasury -- 8 years, take the money and run!

They acted like Corporate Raiders.




I agree with you.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: WhenPigsFly on April 11, 2009, 04:41:56 PM

Rick Warren baffles evangelicals with his gay marriage doublespeak:

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/apr/11/warren-waver-stuns-leaders/?xid=rss-page
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: sparklemotion on April 12, 2009, 03:43:29 PM
Beyond Brokeback loses amazon sales rank

Amazon.com has removed certain books that they deem "adult" from their ranking system. Among those books are a lot of GLBT classics that aren't erotica and also Annie Proulx's Brokeback Mountain and the forum's Beyond Brokeback. At the same time some "adult" books still have their sales rank, for example a Playboy Centerfolds Chronicle book.  >:( 

Post by Mark R. Probst, who got a response from Amazon (http://markprobst.livejournal.com/15293.html)
Quote:"Amazon admits they are indeed stripping the sales ranking indicators for what they deem to be 'adult' material. Of course they are being hypocritical because there is a multitude of 'adult' literature out there that is still being ranked – Harold Robbins, Jackie Collins, come on! They are using categories THEY set up (gay and lesbian) to now target these books as somehow offensive."

Someone posted a comment to Mark's post saying "If you check the gay bestseller list, it's filled with the same books, just the Kindle editions. This isn't about protecting the public (if so, then give us our own lists and exclude us from mainstream lists--better the gay ghetto than being erased altogether!), it's about pushing their own product--it exposes more customers to the Kindle."


AMAZONFAIL 2009 links collection on Meta Writer (http://community.livejournal.com/meta_writer/12203.html)

Collection: Books that had their sales ranks removed (http://community.livejournal.com/meta_writer/11992.html)


Edited to add:

The LA Times picks up on Amazon's censorship http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/jacketcopy/ (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/jacketcopy/)
Blog entry by writer Craig Seymour Is Amazon.com Homophobic? (http://craigspoplife.blogspot.com/2009/04/is-amazon-homophobic.html)

I checked BBM again on amazon.com (amazon.co.uk and amazon.de don't seem to be affected - yet).
Brokeback Mountain: Now a Major Motion Picture (Paperback): no sales rank
Brokeback Mountain (Hardcover): with sales rank
Beyond Brokeback: The Impact of a Film (Paperback): no sales rank
Beyond Brokeback (Hardcover): with sales rank, though currently unavailable

Weird.

Search for beyond brokeback in All Departments: the paperback doesn't come up, only the hardcover is listed.
Search for beyond brokeback in Books: both issues are listed.
Search for brokeback mountain in All Departments: #2 Hardcover, Now a Major Motion Picture (Paperback) not listed
Search for brokeback mountain in Books: #1 Now a Major Motion Picture (Paperback), #3 hardcover

Seems like a search for something in All Departments only lists items with rank, a search in Books lists items with and without rank.
So not only bestseller lists are censored, but also search results.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on April 12, 2009, 05:24:47 PM
erm... by boycotting amazon, we would be shooting ourselves in the financial foot.  last i heard we collect a small but steady stream of income from our linked sales from amazon.

bcjohn can elucidate.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: sparklemotion on April 12, 2009, 05:42:12 PM
erm... by boycotting amazon, we would be shooting ourselves in the financial foot.  last i heard we collect a small but steady stream of income from our linked sales from amazon.

Sorry. I removed the line from my post. Maybe complaining to amazon would be better, then.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: oilgun on April 12, 2009, 05:52:00 PM
erm... by boycotting amazon, we would be shooting ourselves in the financial foot.  last i heard we collect a small but steady stream of income from our linked sales from amazon.

bcjohn can elucidate.

I say boycott until they change this regressive policy:

I agree with ths quote from the LA Times link:
"But as troubling as the unevenness of the policy of un-ranking and de-searching certain titles might be, it's a bit beside the point. It's the action itself that is troubling: making books harder to find, or keeping them off bestseller lists on the basis of their content can't be a good idea."
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on April 12, 2009, 05:56:42 PM
erm... by boycotting amazon, we would be shooting ourselves in the financial foot.  last i heard we collect a small but steady stream of income from our linked sales from amazon.

bcjohn can elucidate.

We receive about $ 30.00/month in Amazon commissions.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on April 12, 2009, 06:02:52 PM
I just did a search on Amazon for "Beyond Brokeback"

Normally the paperback would be listed first, but it's not even showing up in the search now. There is a listing for the hardcover without a picture of the cover.


I did notice that our sales ranking was gone the other day, but I figured it was due to slow sales and maybe they only rank the top 1,000,000 or so.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on April 12, 2009, 06:22:13 PM
Our Amazon store generated $5,461.24 in revenue for Amazon last year.

2007:  $8,449.78

2006:  $32,993.95 (a good portion of this was generated by sales of the DVD)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on April 12, 2009, 06:39:43 PM
Sign the protest petition: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/in-protest-at-amazons-new-adult-policy.

Call Amazon customer service: 1-866-216-1072.

Complain via email form: http://bit.ly/amazoncomplain.

Twitter using the #amazonfail hashtag.

If you belong to a group that cares about books or rights, encourage your organization to make a public statement.


Quote
But scrolling through page after page of de-ranked titles, I felt profoundly sad that all of this amazing work — the genius of our community, heartfelt stories of true experience, our deepest intellectual and emotional grapplings — had been deemed, not to mince words, obscene.  Inappropriate. Wrong. Bad. Needing to be zapped out of existence.

And then, as I kept going, I noticed that the policy had… changed!

Suddenly, the books started showing up in searches again.  Including mine.

But as of right now, the sales rankings are still missing.  This means that titles tarred with the “Gay & Lesbian” brush can never show up in, for example, bestseller lists on Amazon — since bestsellers are defined by rankings. On a personal level it also means that a week ago, for example, I could see that my book was #22 of Biographies & Memoirs –> Ethnic, and #18 of Gay & Lesbian –> Biographies & Memoirs, and so on. Now, that information is simply gone.  To me this was a narcissistic exercise; to a prospective book-buyer, the sales rankings might range from totally uninteresting to mildly influential.

In addition, the loss of categories means that you can’t get to my book from another book. If you’re looking at Suketu Mehta’s Maximum City: Bombay Lost and Found, and you click on > History > Asia > India to find similar books, you won’t find mine.  Gayness, it seems, trumps all other categories; if you do manage to get to the page for my book, you won’t see any categories describing its content.

Bottom line: Gay books now have second-class citizen status on Amazon.  

I’m grateful for the grassroots power of the Internet that caused Amazon to rescind the most punitive aspect of its new policy, less than twelve hours after Probst posted his blog entry.

I’m shocked by the fact that, in 2009, the mere presence of “Gay & Lesbian” content can deem a book inappropriate — not by some hick rightwing school board in Texas, but by the largest bookseller in the United States.

I’m saddened and angered by the continuing differential treatment.

And I’m firmer than ever in my support of independent bookstores, where books aren’t sold by algorithm but out of love and an unwavering commitment to authors, stories, and freedom of speech.


http://www.minalhajratwala.com/2009/04/amazon-and-invisibility/ (http://www.minalhajratwala.com/2009/04/amazon-and-invisibility/)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on April 12, 2009, 07:26:56 PM
Quote
AMZ spokesman Drew Herdener tells me "We recently discovered glitch to sales rank feature. Working 2 correct problem as quickly as possible"

http://twitter.com/roncharles (http://twitter.com/roncharles)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on April 12, 2009, 07:28:34 PM
Our Amazon store generated $5,461.24 in revenue for Amazon last year.

2007:  $8,449.78

2006:  $32,993.95 (a good portion of this was generated by sales of the DVD)
$47,000 and counting.  pretty impressive.  i wonder how many other gay centric organizations have amazon "stores"?  i would imagine that, lumped together, we might make a statement of a kind that amazon management will understand quite clearly.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on April 12, 2009, 07:34:26 PM
i haven't been able to get to the Publisher's Weekly website yet. I think it's overloaded  :D

Amazon Says Glitch to Blame for "New" Adult Policy (http://www.publishersweekly.com/article/CA6651080.html?desc=topstory)

Publishers Weekly
 -
‎38 minutes ago‎

On Sunday evening, however, an Amazon spokesperson said that a glitch had occurred in its sales ranking feature that was in the process of being fixed. ...
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on April 12, 2009, 07:35:04 PM
Our Amazon store generated $5,461.24 in revenue for Amazon last year.

2007:  $8,449.78

2006:  $32,993.95 (a good portion of this was generated by sales of the DVD)
$47,000 and counting.  pretty impressive.  i wonder how many other gay centric organizations have amazon "stores"?  i would imagine that, lumped together, we might make a statement of a kind that amazon management will understand quite clearly.

Looks like they got the message
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on April 12, 2009, 07:37:54 PM
here we go


Amazon Says Glitch to Blame for "New" Adult Policy

By Rachel Deahl & Jim Milliot -- Publishers Weekly, 4/12/2009 5:49:00 PM

Quote
A groundswell of outrage, concern and confusion sprang up over the weekend, largely via Twitter, in response to what authors and others believed was a decision by Amazon to remove adult titles from its sales ranking. On Sunday evening, however, an Amazon spokesperson said that a glitch had occurred in its sales ranking feature that was in the process of being fixed. The spokesperson added that there was no new adult policy.


Quote
Whether a glitch or new policy, titles like James Baldwin's Giovanni's Room and Annie Proulx's Brokeback Mountain are among the titles who have lost their ranking
.

http://www.publishersweekly.com/article/CA6651080.html?desc=topstory (http://www.publishersweekly.com/article/CA6651080.html?desc=topstory)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on April 12, 2009, 07:41:15 PM
Glitch my ass
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on April 12, 2009, 07:58:14 PM
They must be working pretty hard at Amazon tonight.

I can't even find our book now.

(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj282/SanFranciscoJohn/AmazonSucks.jpg)

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on April 12, 2009, 08:18:45 PM
Glitch my ass
WHAT HE SAID !!  ;D ;D
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on April 12, 2009, 08:25:56 PM
Funny how this item gets a ranking.

Doc Johnson Lucid Dream #14 Multi-Speed, Waterproof G-Spot Vibrator, Twist-bottom Control

Product Details
Product Dimensions: 6.4 ounces
Shipping Weight: 8.8 ounces (View shipping rates and policies)
Shipping: Currently, item can be shipped only within the U.S.
ASIN: B000FERL1M
Item model number: DJ0926-01-AM
Batteries: 2 AA batteries required.
Average Customer Review:
49 Reviews
5 star:    (23)
4 star:    (12)
3 star:    (4)
2 star:    (1)
1 star:    (9)

› See all 49 customer reviews... 

3.8 out of 5 stars See all reviews (49 customer reviews)
Amazon.com Sales Rank
Popular in this category: (What's this?)

#2 in   Health & Personal Care > Sexual Wellness > Adult Toys & Games > Sex Toys > Vibrators

http://www.amazon.com/Doc-Johnson-Multi-Speed-Waterproof-Twist-bottom/dp/B000FERL1M/ref=pd_bxgy_hpc_text_b (http://www.amazon.com/Doc-Johnson-Multi-Speed-Waterproof-Twist-bottom/dp/B000FERL1M/ref=pd_bxgy_hpc_text_b)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: sparklemotion on April 12, 2009, 08:27:13 PM
Glitch my ass

WORD!

On twitter there's now not only #amazonfail (http://search.twitter.com/search?q=%23amazonfail) but also #glitchmyass (http://search.twitter.com/search?q=%23glitchmyass)  ;D


Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on April 12, 2009, 08:45:57 PM
Judith Krug, founder of Banned Books Week, dies

Judith Krug, a director of the Chicago-based American Library Association and a founder of its Banned Books Week, has died. She was 69.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/04/12/national/a143549D35.DTL (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/04/12/national/a143549D35.DTL)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on April 12, 2009, 08:58:37 PM
AP finally picked it up

By HILLEL ITALIE, AP National Writer Hillel Italie, Ap National Writer – 6 mins ago

NEW YORK – A "glitch" on Amazon.com has caused the sales rank to be removed from gay- and/or lesbian-themed books by James Baldwin, Gore Vidal and others.

"There was a glitch in our systems and it's being fixed," Amazon's director of corporate communications, Patty Smith, said in an e-mail Sunday.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090413/ap_on_en_ot/books_amazon_1 (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090413/ap_on_en_ot/books_amazon_1)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on April 12, 2009, 09:11:14 PM
I've been searching the news and blogs for the past couple of hours, and it's interesting that so many of the sites have the same picture attached to their stories.



(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj282/SanFranciscoJohn/brokeback-250x250.jpg)

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on April 12, 2009, 09:52:41 PM
Report: Sprint, Barnes and Noble Ready Kindle Rival

Barnes and Noble and Sprint are reportedly working together to build an e-book reader to rival Amazon's Kindle, TheStreet.com reported Friday, citing industry insiders, as well as speculation at last week's CTIA show.

http://www.e-gear.com/article/sprint-barnes-noble-reportedly-readying-kindle-rival-405701_1.html (http://www.e-gear.com/article/sprint-barnes-noble-reportedly-readying-kindle-rival-405701_1.html)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on April 12, 2009, 11:11:44 PM
Amazon FAIL (or: Twilight Made Me Gay)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-bm0QKFDU8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-bm0QKFDU8)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: oilgun on April 13, 2009, 07:25:27 AM
Glitch my Ass! is right, there is even proof:

http://markprobst.livejournal.com/15293.html (http://markprobst.livejournal.com/15293.html)

Excerpt:
On Amazon.com two days ago, mysteriously, the sales rankings disappeared from two newly-released high profile gay romance books: “Transgressions” by Erastes and “False Colors” by Alex Beecroft. Everybody was perplexed. Was it a glitch of some sort? The very next day HUNDREDS of gay and lesbian books simultaneously lost their sales rankings, including my book “The Filly.” There was buzz, What’s going on? Does Amazon have some sort of campaign to suppress the visibility of gay books? Is it just a major glitch in the system? Many of us decided to write to Amazon questioning why our rankings had disappeared. Most received evasive replies from customer service reps not versed in what was happening. As I am a publisher and have an Amazon Advantage account through which I supply Amazon with my books, I had a special way to contact them. 24 hours later I had a response:

 

In consideration of our entire customer base, we exclude "adult" material from appearing in some searches and best seller lists. Since these lists are generated using sales ranks, adult materials must also be excluded from that feature.

Hence, if you have further questions, kindly write back to us.

Best regards,

Ashlyn D

Member Services

Amazon.com Advantage


 
Yes, it is true. Amazon admits they are indeed stripping the sales ranking indicators for what they deem to be “adult” material. Of course they are being hypocritical because there is a multitude of “adult” literature out there that is still being ranked – Harold Robbins, Jackie Collins, come on! They are using categories THEY set up (gay and lesbian) to now target these books as somehow offensive.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on April 13, 2009, 08:33:00 AM
What Amazon's "Glitch" Says About American Pop Culture

by Sarah Warn, Editor in Chief
April 13, 2009

This article was co-written by Sarah Warn, Editor in Chief of AfterEllen.com, and Michael Jensen, Editor in Chief of AfterElton.com.

Quote
Bisexual surgeon Callie sleeps with a male friend and her girlfriend on the same day on Grey's Anatomy (ABC), and House, M.D. (Fox) promotes a racy lesbian sex scene for October sweeps (the only time the bisexual character is ever actually involved with women on the show).

Fox's new animated show Sit Down, Shut Up includes a "flamboyant" bisexual male drama teacher who is obsessed with sex, and Comedy Central's new series Krod Mandoon and the Flaming Sword of Fire features a gay guy eager to have sex with 300 men in a row. Saturday Night Live regularly falls back on gay panic humor — and (usually) not in a good way.

One of the biggest pop songs of the last year is about a girl who kissed a girl and liked it, even though she's not gay or bisexual and it's "not what good girls do."

Movies aimed at a young, heterosexual audience routinely feature characters or conversations that portray gay men and women as oversexed and predatory (Lesbian Vampire Killers, Meet the Spartans, Harold & Kumar: Escape From Guantanamo Bay).

Meanwhile, movies such as Milk, Brokeback Mountain or The World Unseen which portray gay and bisexual men and women as well-rounded human beings, are few and far between at the local cineplex.

With so many media images working together to over-emphasize the sexual aspect of homosexuality and bisexuality, should we be surprised someone at Amazon.com apparently put gay and lesbian books like Heather Has Two Mommies and John Barrowman's biography Anything Goes in the "adult" (i.e. explicit sexuality) category?

Amazon.com is calling this a "glitch with our sales rank feature that is currently being fixed." Even if that turns out to be true, this kind of glitch is inevitable in a culture which relentlessly oversexualizes gay, lesbian and bisexual people.

Quote
Why does this matter anyway? Isn't it just entertainment?

Yes, but entertainment is our common cultural currency. It's where we see ourselves reflected, and it's one of the primary ways we learn about people who are different from us.

When we are reduced to our sexuality, we are seen as other — something less than full human beings, and therefore less deserving of equal rights. When we are not presented three-dimensionally, it becomes more difficult for many heterosexuals to identify with us, because there's no common ground.

http://www.afterellen.com/TV/2009/4/glitch (http://www.afterellen.com/TV/2009/4/glitch)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on April 13, 2009, 09:29:27 AM
We're back !



Beyond Brokeback: The Impact of a Film

Product Details
Paperback: 256 pages
Publisher: WingSpan Press (April 2, 2007)
Language: English
ISBN-10: 1595941223
ISBN-13: 978-1595941220
Product Dimensions: 8.8 x 6 x 0.6 inches
Shipping Weight: 12 ounces (View shipping rates and policies)
Average Customer Review:
9 Reviews
5 star:    (9)
4 star:     (0)
3 star:     (0)
2 star:     (0)
1 star:     (0)

5.0 out of 5 stars See all reviews (9 customer reviews)
Amazon.com Sales Rank: #735,078 in Books (See Bestsellers in Books)
Popular in these categories: (What's this?)

#3 in   Books > Gay & Lesbian > Literature & Fiction > Literary Criticism
#7 in   Books > Gay & Lesbian > History
#84 in   Books > Gay & Lesbian > Biographies & Memoirs


http://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Brokeback-Members-Ultimate-Forum/dp/1595941223/ref=pd_rhf_p_t_1 (http://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Brokeback-Members-Ultimate-Forum/dp/1595941223/ref=pd_rhf_p_t_1)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on April 13, 2009, 09:32:24 AM
yay

stupid, stupid, stupid idea... ::)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on April 13, 2009, 09:37:54 AM
(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj282/SanFranciscoJohn/t.png)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: oilgun on April 13, 2009, 12:57:07 PM
(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj282/SanFranciscoJohn/t.png)


Sorry, but what am I looking at? ???
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Sandy on April 13, 2009, 02:00:58 PM
Looks like a stock chart to me.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on April 13, 2009, 03:00:32 PM

Sorry, but what am I looking at? ???

sorry  :">

Amazon stock chart for today

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=amzn (http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=amzn)

Not exactly a  >:D crash >:D, but the way Amazon has been pushing their Kindle people were expecting the price to go up a little today.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: oilgun on April 13, 2009, 03:05:06 PM

Sorry, but what am I looking at? ???

sorry  :">

Amazon stock chart for today

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=amzn (http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=amzn)

Not exactly a  >:D crash >:D, but the way Amazon has been pushing their Kindle people were expecting the price to go up a little today.


Of course!  Thanks!
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on April 13, 2009, 05:20:02 PM
Amazon: Error That De-Ranked LGBT Books is Fixed

Quote
Amazon.com (NASD: AMZN) said on Monday that a "ham-fisted cataloging error" caused thousands of gay-themed books to be classified as "adult" literature and de-ranked from its online store, the Seattle Times reports. "This is an embarrassing and ham-fisted cataloging error for a company that prides itself on offering complete selection," Drew Herdener, communications director at Amazon, told the Times.

http://www.dmwmedia.com/news/2009/04/13/amazon:-error-de-ranked-lgbt-books-fixed (http://www.dmwmedia.com/news/2009/04/13/amazon:-error-de-ranked-lgbt-books-fixed)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on April 13, 2009, 06:48:38 PM
add homophobic and ham-fisted is a pretty fair description.  a fat donation to gay and lesbian libraries is in order, i think.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: CellarDweller115 on April 13, 2009, 07:13:45 PM
Good to see that the rankings are back!

;D
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on April 13, 2009, 07:16:29 PM
Minn. court declares Franken leading vote-getter

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/minnesota_senate (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/minnesota_senate)

about Frederick time!
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: oilgun on April 13, 2009, 07:25:06 PM
Good to see that the rankings are back!

;D

I did a random check and there are still many gay titles without ranking while straight books with adult content retained their ranking.  Here's a list I posted at Bettermost:

Faggots - Larry Kramer - Not Ranked

Ron Jeremy: The Hardest (Working) Man in Show Business - Ranked

Queer Families, Common Agendas: Gay People, Lesbians, and Family Values - Not Ranked

Fear of a Queer Planet: Queer Politics and Social Theory - Not Ranked

The Happy Hooker- (Xaviera Hollander) - Ranked

Dude, You're a Fag: Masculinity and Sexuality in High School - Not Ranked
Product Description
High school and the difficult terrain of sexuality and gender identity are brilliantly explored in this smart, incisive ethnography. Based on eighteen months of fieldwork in a racially diverse working-class high school, Dude, You're a Fag sheds new light on masculinity both as a field of meaning and as a set of social practices. C. J. Pascoe's unorthodox approach analyzes masculinity as not only a gendered process but also a sexual one. She demonstrates how the "specter of the fag" becomes a disciplinary mechanism for regulating heterosexual as well as homosexual boys and how the "fag discourse" is as much tied to gender as it is to sexuality.


The Glory Hole Murders (Tony Fennelly) - Not Ranked
Book Description
In The Glory Hole Murders a gay, New Orleans aristocrat, Matt Sinclair, solves a murder of a supposedly straight family man in the men's room of a gay bar. Nominated for an Edgar award. The New York Times Book Review said, "A first in mystery fiction."


Troublemaker: A Dave Brandstetter Mystery (Joseph Hanson) - Not Ranked
Product Description:
The third volume in the award-winning, groundbreaking Dave Brandstetter mystery series finds Dave investigating the murder of the owner of a local gay bar. Appearances suggest that the only witness is also the killer, but he swears he's innocent. Trouble is, he may be telling the truth.


Inside Out: Straight Talk from a Gay Jock (Mark Tewksbury) - Not Ranked
From Publishers Weekly:
In public, Mark Tewksbury has always credited the 1976 Olympics as a major inspiration for his becoming an Olympic champion swimmer, but in fact, it was wearing a towel-turban in imitation of his grandmother and swimming in her condo pool that first sparked his love of swimming. Intimate and endearing details such as these are what provide Tewksbury's story with relevance beyond the famous-athlete-fights-and-overcomes-his-personal-demons story. Granted, Tewksbury covers all the usual challenges faced by performance athletes-the sacrifices, the post-Olympic depression, the intense glare of the media spotlight-but it is his private sojourn as a gay man, from coming out of the closet to visiting his first gay bar ("it was like being in another world with fashionably dressed people drinking cocktails from martini glasses") to entering his first sexual relationship (an ongoing, three-way relationship with a male couple) that will resonate with the reader. Despite the "Gay Jock" subtitle, the book is accessible; Tewksbury comes with all the tics and quirks of your everyday gay man wrestling with his sexuality, and later, with the complexities of finding a partner and dating. A thoughtful, moving narrative that inspires as much as it entertains.



Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on April 13, 2009, 07:50:13 PM
I did a random check and there are still many gay titles without ranking while straight books with adult content retained their ranking. 

I'm sure it's just a glitch
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on April 13, 2009, 07:59:02 PM
AmazonFail: An inside look at what happened

Quote
On Sunday afternoon at least 20 Amazon.com employees were paged alerting them that items, possibly many, were incorrectly being flagged as adult. The employees also received links to the Twitter discussion AmazonFail.

Thousands of people were angry that gay-themed books had disappeared from Amazon's sales rankings and search algorithms. The number of Tweets on Sunday afternoon that had the term "AmazonFail" surpassed even those with the words "Easter" or "Jesus."

By this time, Amazon.com had upgraded the problem to Sev-1. (Amazon.com breaks down its operational issues in terms of severity levels. Sev-3 means a problem affects a single user. Sev-2 is a problem that affects a company, or a lot of people. Sev-1 is reserved for the most critical operational issues and often are sent up the management chain to the senior vice president level.)

"People got pulled away from their Easter thing when this whole thing broke," the employee said. "It was just a screwup."

Amazon.com employees are on call 24/7, and many began working on the problem from home. It didn't take much digging to realize that there was a data error.

Amazon managers found that an employee who happened to work in France had filled out a field incorrectly and more than 50,000 items got flipped over to be flagged as "adult," the source said. (Technically, the flag for adult content was flipped from 'false' to 'true.')

"It's no big policy change, just some field that's been around forever filled out incorrectly," the source said.

http://blog.seattlepi.com/amazon/archives/166384.asp?from=blog_last3 (http://blog.seattlepi.com/amazon/archives/166384.asp?from=blog_last3)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on April 14, 2009, 07:45:36 AM
Minn. court declares Franken leading vote-getter

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/minnesota_senate (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/minnesota_senate)

about Frederick time!



It doesn't matter Coleman will fight to the end. Frankin will not get seated. The GOP will fight this till the bitter end. Its not about Coleman winning or loosing its about stopping Frankin from getting seated. I just wish our media in the state will start reporting the truth, but it will not. So, I guess Coleman is considered the Strong GOP in the country. He helped stop the Black Man in the white from pushing his "Socialist" agenda.

The only way to get Frankin Seated is if people in MN Will protest and if Reid seats him. However, I do not see any of that happening. People here are tired of it and Reid has NO BALLS to do anything. So, I guess Coleman did win. The thing is he will not get seated either, but thats not what he wanted. He just want to stop Frankin from doing so.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: huntinbuddy on April 14, 2009, 10:44:13 AM
....well, I have to ask, who will be senator then if neither of them will be seated?  Is there going to be an appointment?  another election perhaps?  Just handle it the way Illinois does, sell the seat.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on April 14, 2009, 11:15:29 AM
....well, I have to ask, who will be senator then if neither of them will be seated?  Is there going to be an appointment?  another election perhaps?  Just handle it the way Illinois does, sell the seat.


no the courts will pick one. It sounds like it will be frankin but Coleman still has the right to appeal. This is a 3 member court. Now if it goes further it goes to the full State Supreme Court. So, if the state supreme court sides with Frankin, Coleman still can appeal after that and it goes to Federal Courts and I feel than Coleman will have a chance. He wants to bring it up to the Federal Supreme Court. Just remember Bush vs Gore.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: oilgun on April 14, 2009, 12:12:17 PM
....well, I have to ask, who will be senator then if neither of them will be seated?  Is there going to be an appointment?  another election perhaps?  Just handle it the way Illinois does, sell the seat.


no the courts will pick one. It sounds like it will be frankin but Coleman still has the right to appeal. This is a 3 member court. Now if it goes further it goes to the full State Supreme Court. So, if the state supreme court sides with Frankin, Coleman still can appeal after that and it goes to Federal Courts and I feel than Coleman will have a chance. He wants to bring it up to the Federal Supreme Court. Just remember Bush vs Gore.

Oy! Wouldn't it be less expensive to just hold another election.  ;)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on April 14, 2009, 12:38:18 PM
I don't think there's any basis in law to have "do over" elections, is there?  But this situation also points out that there really should be in place some kind of system to deal with close elections "before" they are close.  After 2000, you'd think we would want the Federal government to have in place "something".  I believe it is New Mexico that has some quirky law that if the election is so close and disputed it's solved with a coin toss!
(Now it would be--whose coin?  Who tosses it?  Does the weight matter?  The temperature.  Inside or outside...)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on April 14, 2009, 01:44:26 PM
Having another election is not allowed. Its not the law here. I wish it was. But its not, and I don't like changing the rules after the fact like Coleman wants to do is wrong.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Sandy on April 14, 2009, 01:47:31 PM
Doesn't an appeal require that some aspect of law, and not fact, be in contention? I thought the three-panel judge's findings were to determine facts. If so, that might spell the beginning of the end to the debate.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on April 14, 2009, 03:00:35 PM
Doesn't an appeal require that some aspect of law, and not fact, be in contention? I thought the three-panel judge's findings were to determine facts. If so, that might spell the beginning of the end to the debate.


You are right but that will not stop The GOP from not seating Frankin. The sad part is the 3 judge panel had a unanimous decision, one is Democrat, one is a Republican and the other considers them an Independent. So, I feel it was a fair judgement.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: WhenPigsFly on April 14, 2009, 03:50:47 PM
    He wants to bring it up to the Federal Supreme Court. Just remember Bush vs Gore.

Exactly.  That's why I'm betting five of the US Supremes will refuse to hear the case.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on April 15, 2009, 05:41:40 AM
    He wants to bring it up to the Federal Supreme Court. Just remember Bush vs Gore.

Exactly.  That's why I'm betting five of the US Supreme will refuse to hear the case.


Sorry but there are 5 "conservative" judges and 4 "liberal" ones. After Sandra Day O'Connor left the balanced shifted. Scallila said he will take the case.

By the way one of the judges on this 3 judge panel donated to Coleman in 2002. While another donated to Wellstone in 2002. The third did not donate to anyone. The judge that donated to Coleman was also appointed to the bench by our governor in 2007. Most of the judges were appointed by Republican Governors in this state.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on April 15, 2009, 07:21:14 AM
WOW!! Homeland Security want us to be concerned about the increase of Right Wing Militias. No kidding. It seems they grow in power when a Dem is in the White House. Sad part is where were these peoplwe when Bush started to wire-tap. What hypocrats.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/14/homeland-security-report_n_186834.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on April 15, 2009, 09:14:14 AM
I guess there is about $100 Billion ayear that goes to tax-shlter over seas.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/15/offshore-tax-havens-a-sta_n_186640.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Sandy on April 15, 2009, 11:25:52 AM
Tom,

A number of misleading things in the rant.

The banks didn't take the money away from your 401-K, the fall in value of what the 401-K was invested in, e.g., stocks, did that. If you signed up for a 401-K, you doubtless signed a piece of paper that acknowleged the risk that your investment could actually lose money (and if you didn't, you were investing with Bernie Madoff).

The financial planner on PBS who told you to pay the minimum on your credit card was giving you very bad advice since the interest keeps building up on the balance, generally at very unfavorable rates. Also, payment of just the minimum amount often makes very ugly provisions of your credit agreement kick in. Bad, bad advice.

Capital comes from many different sources, not just savings.

What do you mean, the dollar is deflating? Worth $0.40 against what currency, at what time?

Actually, we have an infinite number of choices in front of us, not just two. If we reduce our options to just two choices, both of them unrealistic, we will be ill-equipped to handle what reality actually throws our way.

Educating ourselves about finances and economics, as well as taking a longer view, may protect us against the onslaught of sensational opinions.

Sandy


Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on April 15, 2009, 02:51:50 PM
Sorry my bad!!!
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: WhenPigsFly on April 15, 2009, 05:30:20 PM
 


 Scallila said he will take the case.


When did he say that?   
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Jer009 on April 15, 2009, 11:20:16 PM

The financial planner on PBS who told you to pay the minimum on your credit card was giving you very bad advice since the interest keeps building up on the balance, generally at very unfavorable rates. Also, payment of just the minimum amount often makes very ugly provisions of your credit agreement kick in. Bad, bad advice.

It's even worse than that. If you're current on cards A, B,C,and D, and you get sick or simply forget to pay on card D, there's little mercy. After a couple of late payments--it varies according to your state--they have the right, granted by YOU when you signed up for the card to raise your rate to the Universal Default Rate. This can be up to 30%...

...on ALL YOUR CARDS, even the ones you're current on. It's criminal behavior, which is why there's been bills before Congress to regulate credit cards, particularly the practice of Universal Default. There's even talk of bringing back the old usury laws.

The issuer can raise the rate, close the account or take any action it wishes for whatever reason whatsoever, or no reason at all. They hold all the cards, pardon the pun. If you object to your "Agreement" (A/K/A extortion), it's their way or the highway. It's all in the fine print...which most people throw away without reading. I've heard horror stories of cruel treatment by these companies.

You're right, Sandy. Very ugly provisions, indeed.

Title: What Amazon's "Glitch" Says About American Pop Culture
Post by: Jer009 on April 16, 2009, 02:57:51 AM
(snip)
Meanwhile, movies such as Milk, Brokeback Mountain or The World Unseen which portray gay and bisexual men and women as well-rounded human beings, are few and far between at the local cineplex.

http://www.afterelton.com/TV/2009/4/glitch
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on April 16, 2009, 05:22:36 AM
 


 Scallila said he will take the case.


When did he say that?   


I heard it from 2 local radio stations here in MN. One was a Right Leading one, the other was Air America. SO, could both be wrong.??
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on April 17, 2009, 07:34:14 AM
SO, what about the Tea-baggers? I feel Obama might be a one term President if things don't get better. However, its still early. The tea-baggers have no clue, they complain about the debt, where were they when we went into war, $1 trillion war. Now they complain about a $1 trillion spending spree from Obama. While Bush's was on war, Obama is on helping the country. I'm not a big fan of Obama's plan, but its about people not war. Just ranting again. Its just funny the GOP never heard of Tea-bagging. If they would have talked to Ted Haggard, they might have known what it meant.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: doodler on April 17, 2009, 10:27:33 AM
Around here, it's called Tea Parties. There were quite a few in this area, some of them with a couple hundred people and some with a couple dozen. Locally, that's a pretty big turn out.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: huntinbuddy on April 17, 2009, 10:41:22 AM
Around here, it's called Tea Parties. There were quite a few in this area, some of them with a couple hundred people and some with a couple dozen. Locally, that's a pretty big turn out.

Yeah, they had them around my area also, from what I seen on the local newscasts, perhaps a couple hundred people at them.  The way I see it, that whole circus was organized by Hannity, Beck, Bortz and other talking idiots, because they are still pissed they don't have a rep in D.C.   You can bet your rear, if McCain/Palin were in power, there wouldn't be these silly gatherings going on.  Tom, I'm sort of with you on the Obama plan for the economy, but for the most part I support it at this time.  We are not going to pull out of this recession overnight; probably not this year, but I believe what he is doing is a step in the right direction.  Where I am disappointed with the current administration is they have not bitch slapped the crooked bankers and wall street execs that put us in this mess.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: doodler on April 17, 2009, 11:04:33 AM
I have some difficulty with the idea of going after the execs UNLESS laws were broken. Maddolf is one thing, but people who took advantage of existing laws, rules of operation, legal loopholes, etc. are another. This country is based on doing what you have to do to get ahead and too bad for anyone who gets in your way. It's time honored tradition here.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: oilgun on April 17, 2009, 11:45:27 AM
I have some difficulty with the idea of going after the execs UNLESS laws were broken. Maddolf is one thing, but people who took advantage of existing laws, rules of operation, legal loopholes, etc. are another. This country is based on doing what you have to do to get ahead and too bad for anyone who gets in your way. It's time honored tradition here.

Doesn't make it right, obviously.  :)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: doodler on April 17, 2009, 04:09:17 PM
Right and legal often seem to be moral opposites.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: doodler on April 18, 2009, 04:07:13 PM

ACLU Threatens Suit in Gay Web Site Filtering
Human Rights, Educational Web Sites for LGBT Kids Are Off Limits in Tennessee High Schools



http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/MindMoodNews/story?id=7356408&page=1

I've already told the story about trying to place BBM dvds in the local libraries AND this forum is blocked on their computers.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on April 18, 2009, 05:04:04 PM
apparently, however, sites advocating reparative therapy or or books on the evils of sodomy are not blocked.  so it isn't the subject that is taboo, but any positive information a bout it.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on April 20, 2009, 11:59:56 AM
Oprah cancels the Columbine Show that was to air today with Dave on it. I feel sorry for Dave. Would like to have seen the show.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/20/oprah-cancels-columbine-a_n_188972.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on April 21, 2009, 01:19:32 AM
despite other considerations, i would LOVE it if FEINSTEIN finally got caught funneling money to her husband's businesses.  she has been doing this for years, and some of her harder to understand votes make better sense when viewed from this perspective.

in short, she is a crook.
Quote
Senator's husband cashes in on crisis
Feinstein sought $25 billion for agency that awarded contract to spouse
...

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/apr/21/senate-husbands-firm-cashes-in-on-crisis/
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on April 21, 2009, 02:47:00 AM
here's a very positive review of "COLUMBINE" from kornbluth at huffpo

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jesse-kornbluth/a-disturbing-new-book-abo_b_180613.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: WhenPigsFly on April 21, 2009, 10:27:12 AM

in short, she is a crook.
Quote
Senator's husband cashes in on crisis
Feinstein sought $25 billion for agency that awarded contract to spouse
...

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/apr/21/senate-husbands-firm-cashes-in-on-crisis/

What's very curious is that so far this story's only being covered by two R-wing outlets:  Wash Times and Fox.  I understand their eagerness, they're probably under the impression that Feinstein's a liberal.  But why are the NY Times, et.al. missing in action?
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Rosewood on April 21, 2009, 01:38:25 PM
Just read that Eugene Robinson of the Washington Post won
a Pulitzer for his opinion columns on the election.
Very well deserved. Sometimes good guys do finish first.
(Well, Barack Obama is evidence of this as well.)
I liked that Robinson called his mom and dad on election night
and talked about how they'd all lived to see a black man
elected President. His dad died on January 2, so it
was especially touching.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on April 21, 2009, 01:54:42 PM
"Brokeback Mountain" becomes an opera

The premiere is scheduled for June 2013 in Madrid's Teatro Real.


Quote
SANTIAGO.- When the film "Brokeback mountain" (Ang Lee, 2005) premiered, it led to a heated debate about the subjects being tackled by mass film industry. The winning of more than 45 awards -including three Oscars (Best Director, Best Adapted Screenplay and Best Original Score) and the Golden Lion from the Venice Film Festival (Best Film)- was supported by an indisputable success in movie theaters. Its main characters, Ennis del Mar and Jack Twist, were considered as tragic heroes immersed in a hostile world and the actors, Heath Ledger and Jake Gyllenhaal, became sex symbols without frontiers.

Now a new step is being given in dealing with love between men due to the fact that Gérard Mortier, artistic director of the New York City Opera, commissioned an opera about this subject to composer Charles Wuorinen. It should have premiered on that theater's stage, but the composer himself explains: "Mortier had a rift with the theater and left. He is now working at the Teatro Real in Madrid. And 'Brokeback mountain' will make its debut there in June 2013".



—How have you dealt with the story of "Brokeback mountain"? Is your opera based on Annie Proulx's story or on Ang Lee's film? Will people see the characters of the film on this occasion on an opera stage?
 
 
—Annie Proulx herself wrote the libretto which is already finished. I feel it does not bear much relation to the film. It has the same characters, but unlike the story, however, women play a slightly bigger part in it, as in the film. But I have not contacted Ang Lee and I have contacted Annie Proulx. I just finished working with her when she came recently to Nueva York to add the last touches.
 
 
 
—In what way will you deal, from a musical and theatrical point of view, with the love scenes between Jack and Ennis? One thing is to talk about the love of a man for another man and something quite different is a man having sex with another man.
 
—There will be no sex scenes on the stage in my opera. The love scenes have a dialogue and they are going to be sung. And the musical staging will reflect what they are saying and the emotions that may be read between the lines. There is a moment where there is a musical interlude; they will not be visible then, but they are making love.
 
 
—Have you thought about what this kind of experience will be for the public? People who go to the opera are not used to seeing love scenes between men …
 
—Well, they will have to get used to it.

http://www.emol.com/noticias/ingles/detalle/detallenoticias.asp?idnoticia=354647 WARNING-SPOILERS
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: doodler on April 21, 2009, 02:28:17 PM
Well they will have to get used to it.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on April 21, 2009, 02:53:05 PM
i just hope he doesn't forego the "west side story" type quartet i have in my mind for jack, ennis, alma and lureen.  what drama, what a chance for musical exposition.

whoops... opera thread stuff.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on April 21, 2009, 03:06:33 PM
i just hope he doesn't forego the "west side story" type quartet i have in my mind for jack, ennis, alma and lureen.  what drama, what a chance for musical exposition.

whoops... opera thread stuff.

(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj282/SanFranciscoJohn/West_Side_story_1.jpg)

Tony Ennis: You know I ain't queer
Maria Jack: Me neither
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on April 21, 2009, 03:07:29 PM
(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj282/SanFranciscoJohn/rita.jpg)

Alma: You don't go up there to fish!
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: doodler on April 21, 2009, 04:10:07 PM

(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj282/SanFranciscoJohn/West_Side_story_1.jpg)

Tony Ennis: You know I ain't queer
Maria Jack: Me neither

Man! Jack's really changed... and I'm not talking about his tune!
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on April 21, 2009, 10:53:06 PM
its official... GAVIN NEWSOM is running for governor of cali.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BH0jnyuJ1Tg

i'm thinking of moving there just to vote for him.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Ennis Del Mark on April 22, 2009, 02:59:19 AM

(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj282/SanFranciscoJohn/West_Side_story_1.jpg)

Tony Ennis: You know I ain't queer
Maria Jack: Me neither

Man! Jack's really changed... and I'm not talking about his tune!




As West Side Story had "Tonight" the BBM musical has "This Tent":


This tent
this tent
one pole is slightly bent

Forget it Ennis, just let it be!

This tent
this tent
just to me don't look right

Ennis, shut up, and come get on me!

You say you're not queer, well, me neither
but I know that I want you
forever and always
the pole is bent but I'm not
so come get in this tent!

Right NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on April 22, 2009, 01:15:07 PM
I've just come back from the Southwest, where I went to the Pride event in Phoenix this weekend.  That made me think that perhaps I should post somewhere I link to Pride events through the world - and what better place than 'News & Current Events'?

http://www.gaycityusa.com/pride.htm
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on April 22, 2009, 01:58:28 PM
what a surprise, no pride events in lee county or sw florida  ::) ???
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Sandy on April 22, 2009, 02:05:50 PM
There's time to organize one for June.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on April 22, 2009, 04:42:29 PM
What to say about this...how very sad.... :'(

Sources: GM to shut most US plants up to 9 weeks
By TOM KRISHER – 20 minutes ago

DETROIT (AP) — General Motors Corp. is planning to temporarily close most of its U.S. factories for up to nine weeks this summer because of slumping sales and growing inventories of unsold vehicles, two people briefed on the plan said Wednesday.

The exact dates of the closures were not known, but both people said they will occur around the normal two-week shutdown in July to change from one model year to the next. Neither person wanted to be identified because workers have not been told of the shutdowns.

GM spokesman Chris Lee would not comment other than to say the company notifies employees before making any production cuts public.

continues:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jVlBVRk8xGIzXLxXF9NWK4qYmwmgD97NPCJ81

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on April 22, 2009, 05:17:42 PM
I think the saddest part of the story is that it keeps happening over and over. I've been through a few of these plant closing cycles in Bay City, and it affects almost every business in the area


Grim Outlook of Early 1980's Is Back for U.S. Auto Makers

By DORON P. LEVIN, Special to The New York Times
Published: Thursday, December 7, 1989


Sales are slumping, and the Big Three are being forced once again to weigh shutting plants, laying off workers and delaying investments.

As sales have weakened, the Chrysler Corporation has closed a plant in Wisconsin and announced another shutdown in Michigan. To raise cash for its auto business, Chrysler announced today that it was putting its military electronics and Gulfstream business jet subsidiaries up for sale. The General Motors Corporation has ''indefinitely'' idled factories in Georgia, Massachusetts and Michigan. Even the Ford Motor Company, which has been the least affected so far, said on Tuesday that it would temporarily close an automotive van plant in Ohio. And analysts say more layoffs and plant closings are inevitable. Little Room to Maneuver

http://www.nytimes.com/1989/12/07/business/grim-outlook-of-early-1980-s-is-back-for-us-auto-makers.html (http://www.nytimes.com/1989/12/07/business/grim-outlook-of-early-1980-s-is-back-for-us-auto-makers.html)


Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: WhenPigsFly on April 22, 2009, 05:26:36 PM
If you're not a member of MoveOn, and you'd like to ask Eric Holder to appoint a special prosecutor to investigate torture...
http://www.pol.moveon.org/investigate?id=15969-7784748-6vf4Zfx&t=5
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on April 23, 2009, 08:04:51 AM
If you're not a member of MoveOn, and you'd like to ask Eric Holder to appoint a special prosecutor to investigate torture...
http://www.pol.moveon.org/investigate?id=15969-7784748-6vf4Zfx&t=5


I already did. However, I feel this is not the most important issue right now. I feel that the economy is the most important and with the bail out not really working Obama should be looking for other alternatives and should not be distracted. I feel for him. He inherited a bigger mess than we all thought. I feel China will become a bigger world player sooner than later now.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: doodler on April 23, 2009, 11:56:26 AM
I don't understand why everyone has been so quick to deem the bailouts failures. We didn't get into this mess overnight and we're not going to get out overnight and it hasn't been all that long.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on April 23, 2009, 12:08:14 PM
I don't understand why everyone has been so quick to deem the bailouts failures. We didn't get into this mess overnight and we're not going to get out overnight and it hasn't been all that long.


Some banks are making money yet still are not given out laons or credit. Its worst now than it was before the Bailout. I just don't trust these bankers at all, and the bailouts should have more restrictions to them. Just my Opinion.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on April 23, 2009, 12:51:14 PM
Some banks are making money yet still are not given out laons or credit. Its worst now than it was before the Bailout. I just don't trust these bankers at all, and the bailouts should have more restrictions to them. Just my Opinion.

I know that the bank we use here where I work has increased normal fees and added a couple of new ones.

We're paying about 20% more in bank fees than we did last year.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: doodler on April 23, 2009, 12:53:52 PM
I totally agree that the monies being passed out should have rules... enforcible rules... for their use. I'm not sure the banks supposedly making money aren't counting their bailout funds as profit... did anyone ask? And I'm not in the market for a loan. BUT my son just bought a new truck and retired friends of mine just told me their retirement portfolio, which had been down almost 50%, was now down only 27%. Doesn't sound as bad as it was.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on April 23, 2009, 01:22:57 PM
I hope thing are turning around. But it will take a long time to recover.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on April 23, 2009, 01:38:03 PM
(http://i.indiewire.com/images/uploads/i/090423_outrageposter2ND.jpg)

First Look: Kirby Dick’s “Outrage”; New Tribeca Doc Names Names
by Brian Brooks
April 23

The current governor of a major U.S. southern state, the campaign manager of a
U.S. president, a senior West Coast congressman, a former mayor of New York City,
and others are among those outed in Kirby Dick’s “Outrage,” a provocative new
documentary debuting Thursday night at the Tribeca Film Festival. Unseen in its
finished form until yesterday, the film is likely to cause waves in political and media
circles as word gets out about its subject matter.

To seasoned politicos, those named as closeted gay politicians in Kirby Dick’s “Outrage”
- many of them socially conservative Republicans - will not come as a complete surprise.
Indeed many of those profiled in the film, have had rumors swirling around them in political
circles and alternative media already - and some for years. Nevertheless, the mainstream
media have been hesitant and even openly reluctant to pursue the truth about allegedly gay
politicians from the past and present.

All of that is likely to change once the new documentary debuts tomorrow night and then is
quickly released in U.S. movie theaters by Magnolia Pictures. It will open in select cities on
May 8th—in New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Philadelphia and Washington, DC—with
an expansion quickly thereafter.


more here:

http://www.indiewire.com/article/first_look_kirby_dicks_outrage_tribeca_premiere_names_names/

Brian Petty writes:  "Why is the film only concerned with men?  There's a fair number
of lesbians in high elected places, starting with Barbara Milkuski. Enough already."
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Ellen (tellyouwhat) on April 23, 2009, 01:38:41 PM
I totally agree that the monies being passed out should have rules... enforcible rules... for their use. I'm not sure the banks supposedly making money aren't counting their bailout funds as profit... did anyone ask? And I'm not in the market for a loan. BUT my son just bought a new truck and retired friends of mine just told me their retirement portfolio, which had been down almost 50%, was now down only 27%. Doesn't sound as bad as it was.


I agree with this.

The bailout money is keeping us afloat, is keeping businesses solvent, is keeping payrolls flowing.

Too bad it hasn't stopped the egregious executive pay and bonuses, but without TARP the bankers would have paid themselves first, and let their banks fail.

THEY would not be hurting, but we would.

Now, public opinion is finally focused on the imbalance in executive pay.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: doodler on April 23, 2009, 03:46:30 PM
(http://i.indiewire.com/images/uploads/i/090423_outrageposter2ND.jpg)

First Look: Kirby Dick’s “Outrage”; New Tribeca Doc Names Names
by Brian Brooks
April 23

The current governor of a major U.S. southern state, the campaign manager of a
U.S. president, a senior West Coast congressman, a former mayor of New York City,
and others are among those outed in Kirby Dick’s “Outrage,” a provocative new
documentary debuting Thursday night at the Tribeca Film Festival. Unseen in its
finished form until yesterday, the film is likely to cause waves in political and media
circles as word gets out about its subject matter.

To seasoned politicos, those named as closeted gay politicians in Kirby Dick’s “Outrage”
- many of them socially conservative Republicans - will not come as a complete surprise.
Indeed many of those profiled in the film, have had rumors swirling around them in political
circles and alternative media already - and some for years. Nevertheless, the mainstream
media have been hesitant and even openly reluctant to pursue the truth about allegedly gay
politicians from the past and present.

All of that is likely to change once the new documentary debuts tomorrow night and then is
quickly released in U.S. movie theaters by Magnolia Pictures. It will open in select cities on
May 8th—in New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Philadelphia and Washington, DC—with
an expansion quickly thereafter.


more here:

http://www.indiewire.com/article/first_look_kirby_dicks_outrage_tribeca_premiere_names_names/

Brian Petty writes:  "Why is the film only concerned with men?  There's a fair number
of lesbians in high elected places, starting with Barbara Milkuski. Enough already."


It won't play HERE. We didn't even get Milk.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Ennis Del Mark on April 23, 2009, 04:27:07 PM
I just LOVE the filmmaker's name...
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: doodler on April 23, 2009, 09:49:12 PM
He's Any Dick's uncle.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: doodler on April 23, 2009, 09:55:46 PM
That should be ANdy Dick.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Ennis Del Mark on April 24, 2009, 12:51:43 PM
Any way you spell it Andy Dick is a fucking idiot.

I see him alive and Heath dead and can't help but wonder sometimes, "God, were you asleep at the SWITCH?!?"

That's awful to say I know but I can't help it.

Mark
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on April 24, 2009, 10:07:40 PM
This make the news so much more manageable....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bduQaCRkgg4
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: CellarDweller115 on April 25, 2009, 04:46:47 PM
'Golden Girls' star Bea Arthur dies at 86

By LYNN ELBER, AP Television Writer Lynn Elber, Ap Television Writer

LOS ANGELES – Beatrice Arthur, the tall, deep-voiced actress whose razor-sharp delivery of comedy lines made her a TV star in the hit shows "Maude" and "The Golden Girls" and who won a Tony Award for the musical "Mame," died Saturday. She was 86.

Arthur died peacefully at her Los Angeles home with her family at her side, family spokesman Dan Watt said. She had cancer, Watt said, declining to give further details.

"She was a brilliant and witty woman," said Watt, who was Arthur's personal assistant for six years. "Bea will always have a special place in my heart."

Arthur first appeared in the landmark comedy series "All in the Family" as Edith Bunker's loudly outspoken, liberal cousin, Maude Finley. She proved a perfect foil for blue-collar bigot Archie Bunker (Carroll O'Connor), and their blistering exchanges were so entertaining that producer Norman Lear fashioned Arthur's own series.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090425/ap_en_ce/us_obit_arthur
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on April 25, 2009, 07:44:49 PM
SNIFF SWIG PUFF - BEA ARTHUR & ROCK HUDSON

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3VbSfQ3nAM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3VbSfQ3nAM)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Ennis Del Mark on April 25, 2009, 08:11:48 PM
I was out of town for my nephew's graduation, came home and collapsed (still have the bronchitis), then woke up an hour ago and saw the sad news of Bea's death.  Yet another star that I never got to tell how much I adored and how much they meant to me.  What a loss, though her work lives on.  Ironically, I was telling someone today how I wished life could be like THE GOLDEN GIRLS.

Dear Bea--you were an original.  Love and misses,

Mark
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: graylockV on April 26, 2009, 08:14:19 PM
I thought Andrew Sullivan was on point today re: letting Bush torture go unpunished:

"The precedent of a torturing American president must be reversed. That means it cannot be allowed to stand.

There is no way the American experiment can continue while legal and historical precedent gives the president the inherent authority to torture. It is the undoing of the core idea of the founding - protection against arbitrary, lawless, cruel and despotic rule. And the impact on the entire world of America allowing this to stand would be profound. The world looks here for moral leadership. Those who endure real political oppression, imprisonment, torture and abuse at the hands of despots look to America for leadership, for guidance, for hope. If America - America - discovers that its own president has illegally tortured and decides that it simply won't do anything about it, that it doesn't matter, that it's too polarizing to restore the rule of law ... then what hope do those people have? To whom will they look when they fight far more pervasive tyranny, buttressed by the same absolute power to coerce the truth and break the human soul?

We don't want vengeance.  We want America back. And we are going to fight on and on until we get it back."

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/04/mr-broder-wants-us-to-move-on.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on April 27, 2009, 07:54:57 AM
The Swine Flu out break. So, when will the GOP blame Obama for this one. I wonder if people are over reacting, especially the EU.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/27/swine-flu-world-govts-rac_n_191665.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on April 27, 2009, 04:14:51 PM
The Swine Flu out break. So, when will the GOP blame Obama for this one. I wonder if people are over reacting, especially the EU.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/27/swine-flu-world-govts-rac_n_191665.html

I'd blame President Ford.

The Flawed 1976 National “Swine Flu” Influenza Immunization Program

Then President Ford, on the same March 24, 1976, only one day after his surprise loss to Ronald Reagan in the North Carolina Republican presidential primary, announced on national television his recommendation to the American public for a crash nation-wide influenza vaccination program to include “every man, woman and child.” Congress responded promptly to the president’s call for funds (appropriations were voted by the Senate April 9, by the House April 12, and signed into law April 15, 1976). Vaccine was produced, field tested, and evaluated in April, May and June. There were problems with producing the vaccine. Nevertheless, between October 1 and December 16, 1976, the U.S. Public Health Service, through state and local public health department “public sector providers,” rapidly spread out among the citizenry to successfully vaccinate 85% of 40 million voluntary vaccinees in 10 weeks (the other 15% of the 40 million voluntary vaccinees received their vaccinations from “private sector providers”). There was great variation among states in vaccinating their citizenry. For example, a skeptical New York City held off on vaccinations, preferring to wait for a shred of evidence that a pandemic was materializing, whereas always dutiful Minnesota immunized two-thirds of eligible adults.

Then, on November 21, 1976, a “Minnesota physician reported to his local health authorities a patient who had contracted an ascending paralysis, called Guillain-Barré syndrome, following swine flu immunization. The physician said he had just learned of this possible side-effect from a cassette-tape discussion of flu vaccination prepared for the continuing education of family practitioners by a California specialist. The Minnesota immunization program officer, Denton R. Peterson, dutifully called CDC and spoke to one of the surveillance physicians there. The latter expressed no interest in the single case, but Peterson was sufficiently bothered to conduct a literature search and did indeed discover previous case reports. “We felt we were sitting on a bomb,” he told investigators. Within a week three more cases, one fatal were reported to Peterson. Two came from a single neurologist who remarked that he had observed this complication of flu vaccine during his residency training. More anxious than ever, Peterson again called the CDC, where the surveillance center was just being told by phone of three more cases in Alabama. The next day they learned of an additional case in New Jersey. By then the CDC was taking the problem seriously.” (** pp. 24-25) Still, Sender was not impressed.

http://www.semp.us/publications/biot_reader.php?BiotID=177 (http://www.semp.us/publications/biot_reader.php?BiotID=177)

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: CellarDweller115 on April 27, 2009, 05:34:40 PM
The Swine Flu out break. So, when will the GOP blame Obama for this one. I wonder if people are over reacting, especially the EU.


Actually, there are members of the GOP saying that Obama administration is overreacting.  There was a report about it on CNN.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: fritzkep on April 27, 2009, 05:44:25 PM
Of course, he'll never do exactly what is right.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: CellarDweller115 on April 28, 2009, 12:05:09 PM
Originally posted in "Le Bar Slash" by Jenny.



I hope this isn't inappropriate here, but I wanted to be sure all USA Brokies are aware that the Matthew Shepard act (H.R. 1913) comes up for a vote in the house tomorrow. Please call your congressperson before 5 pm today and ask them to vote 'yes' on the hate crimes bill. Go to this URL to get the office phone #:
 http://www.congress.org/congressorg/directory/phone_numbers.tt?show=hill_phone

An intern will answer. You're calling to urge the Rep. to vote 'yes'. You might want to mention that one out of six hate crimes is because of the victim's sexual orientation, that the act targets only violent acts, not speech, and doesn't tell any clergyperson what they may preach. Mention that the Rep.'s vote on this bill will affect your future support. Please call even if you have called or e-mailed before, even if you're sure your Rep. will (or won't) vote for the bill.

IMO, this bill is particularly significant to us as Brokies. Matthew was murdered in Wyoming. We need to stand up and be counted as supporting a bill that will help prevent the kind of fear that came between Ennis and Jack (and all the real couples whose story is their story.) 
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on April 28, 2009, 02:36:26 PM
i feel so ashamed of myself... i have been watching this story break for hours, and only just thought of posting it here.

sen. arlen spector announced this afternoon that he will run for his senate seat next term as a democrat, which, once franken is seated, will give the democrats the filibuster proof majority in the senate.

it isn't iron clad, but it is there when it counts.

this is BIG political news.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: CellarDweller115 on April 28, 2009, 06:39:43 PM
sen. arlen spector announced this afternoon that he will run for his senate seat next term as a democrat, which, once franken is seated, will give the democrats the filibuster proof majority in the senate.

How long will it be before Franken gets seated?
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: fritzkep on April 28, 2009, 06:47:37 PM
The Republicans will fight it to the end, and they realize they can't be seen in any worse light than they are now for taking it all the way to the Supreme Court, if it comes to that.

They're in no hurry.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: doodler on April 28, 2009, 09:53:41 PM
So here's my question... how can you change parties while you are serving a term? I don't care if we're talking about President or dog catcher... the person ran on a particular ticket as a member of a particular party, got their support FROM that party and made promises TO that party. Seems to me if Mr. Spector... or ANYBODY... wants to change parties, he shouldn't be able to do it while in office.

And second, how trustworthy could this guy be? He flat out said he was changing because he couldn't get reelected by the same party the next time around. He didn't say he fould himself in overall agreement with the Dems or even that he had serious issues with the Reps EXCEPT the Rep voters in his state would not reelect him again.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on April 29, 2009, 12:40:00 AM
So here's my question... how can you change parties while you are serving a term? I don't care if we're talking about President or dog catcher... the person ran on a particular ticket as a member of a particular party, got their support FROM that party and made promises TO that party. Seems to me if Mr. Spector... or ANYBODY... wants to change parties, he shouldn't be able to do it while in office.

And second, how trustworthy could this guy be? He flat out said he was changing because he couldn't get reelected by the same party the next time around. He didn't say he fould himself in overall agreement with the Dems or even that he had serious issues with the Reps EXCEPT the Rep voters in his state would not reelect him again.
you are missing several points.  and have a few good ones.  anyone can change party affiliation at any time.  it may be frowned on, and it may well be deemed less than ethical, but on the same hand, it can easily be read as an act of conscience, by those so inclined

it is not at all true that he couldn't WIN an election as a republican, but that he couldn't get NOMINATED as a republican  see joe liebowitz, who chose a different tactic to remain a senator.

as much as i have disagreed with spector over some issues, he has, in the main voted his conscience.  he is, however, every bit as beholden as most in the US legislature, and as such, isn't really all that ethically untainted. 

as a long time politician, he has chips he can cash, and he will lend cover to blue dog democrats to vote either with or against party leadership.

and, as we discovered when jeffords defected from the gop to independent, committee leadership and legislature leadership is determined by pure headcount. not as critical when there is a big lead, but big with split congress and when approaching magic filibuster proof actions.

others can add additional rationales.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: WhenPigsFly on April 29, 2009, 01:36:55 AM
 
as much as i have disagreed with spector over some issues, he has, in the main voted his conscience.  

You'll get  argument from some on that, Jack. Among them,  Glenn Greenwald who said today: 

"Arlen Specter is one of the worst, most soul-less, most belief-free individuals in politics.  The moment most vividly illustrating what Specter is:  prior to the vote on the Military Commissions Act of 2006 (suspending habeas corpus), he went to the floor of the Senate and said what the bill "seeks to do is set back basic rights by some 900 years" and is "patently unconstitutional on its face."  He then proceeded to vote YES on the bill's passage."

As for me, I've distrusted  the man ever since he "questioned" Anita Hill during the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearing. 
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on April 29, 2009, 06:57:32 AM
The Republicans will fight it to the end, and they realize they can't be seen in any worse light than they are now for taking it all the way to the Supreme Court, if it comes to that.

They're in no hurry.





So true. Coleman will bring this up to the supreme court. So, it will take at least rest of the year. Frankin will be seated by next year.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on April 29, 2009, 07:07:54 AM
I would prefer Frankin over Spector. Spector will be a Blue Dog Democrat. We need more true progressives in Congress. So, this is not a really victory in my book. He basically stopped a true Liberal from becoming the next Senator from Pennsylvania. Hopefully he doesn't get the Democratic nomination eihter.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on April 29, 2009, 07:32:56 AM
in what alternate universe would a "true liberal" be elected democratic senator from pennsylvania?  ;D ;D ;D

i admit to giving spector the benefit of many doubts, but that is only because he voted my way close to 50% of the time.  i don't recall saying he was an honest broker.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on April 29, 2009, 10:24:11 AM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^

We can always pray.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on April 29, 2009, 11:25:38 AM


Mel Gibson, Girlfriend Make First Public Appearance!

http://omg.yahoo.com/news/mel-gibson-girlfriend-make-first-public-appearance/21901?nc (http://omg.yahoo.com/news/mel-gibson-girlfriend-make-first-public-appearance/21901?nc)

what a sleazeball  ::)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on April 29, 2009, 01:01:17 PM
I just came across a fascinating article!

Lonely Hearts Find Comfort in TV Characters
Jeremy Hsu
Staff Writer
LiveScience.com jeremy Hsu
staff Writer
livescience.com – Wed Apr 29, 10:24 am ET

Don't feel delusional for turning to favorite television characters on "Lost" or "Brothers and Sisters" for comfort - new research suggests that such illusory relationships can buffer people against loneliness or sadness.

Subjects in one study who felt down from remembering unhappy moments of social rejection soon perked up upon writing about their favorite TV shows and characters. This supports the "social surrogacy hypothesis," where technology provides a sense of social belonging when real social connections are lacking.

"Normally rejection has a horrible effect on us, because we're a very social species," said Shira Gabriel, a psychologist at the University of Buffalo in New York who conducted four studies on the issue. "But with our favorite TV shows, we're no longer sad."

Several studies

Much of the early research in this realm was based on the self-reports of college students. But taken together, four new studies indicate that even relationships with nonexistent fictional characters can affect people in very real ways.

The results may illustrate how certain television shows can hold the fascination of viewers, which has caused some psychologists and parents to worry about the social consequences. Even science fiction author Ray Bradbury said that his classic story about book burning, "Fahrenheit 451," was more about the unhealthy attachment to mindless television than about censorship.

Indeed, "Fahrenheit" character Mildred prefers spending time with her television "family" rather than with her husband. "Poor family, poor family, oh everything gone," Mildred mourns as she flees their burning home at one point in the story.

Plenty of anecdotal evidence exists in the real world for a powerful human attachment to fictional characters on TV, in books and in video games. The rabid fandom for certain stories, ranging from Jane Austen's "Pride and Prejudice" to the comics and movies of "Batman," may also speak for itself.

"If you're having a lonely time or feeling down one evening, you can pick up Harry Potter and feel like you're connecting to Harry or Hermione or Ron," Gabriel told LiveScience. She compared it to using a diet pill to stop from feeling hungry, or in this case filling that sense of social emptiness.

continues:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20090429/sc_livescience/lonelyheartsfindcomfortintvcharacters;_ylt=AkoU4x0Ij.ewO4y57UcXMA0DW7oF

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on April 29, 2009, 01:43:44 PM
A Virginia rep called Mathew Shepard's Death a Hoax.

"I also would like to point out that there was a bill -- the hate crimes bill that's called the Matthew Shepard bill is named after a very unfortunate incident that happened where a young man was killed, but we know that that young man was killed in the commitment of a robbery. It wasn't because he was gay. This -- the bill was named for him, hate crimes bill was named for him, but it's really a hoax that that continues to be used as an excuse for passing these bills," said Foxx.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/29/virginia-foxx-story-of-ma_n_192971.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: oilgun on April 29, 2009, 02:49:08 PM
A Virginia rep called Mathew Shepard's Death a Hoax.

"I also would like to point out that there was a bill -- the hate crimes bill that's called the Matthew Shepard bill is named after a very unfortunate incident that happened where a young man was killed, but we know that that young man was killed in the commitment of a robbery. It wasn't because he was gay. This -- the bill was named for him, hate crimes bill was named for him, but it's really a hoax that that continues to be used as an excuse for passing these bills," said Foxx.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/29/virginia-foxx-story-of-ma_n_192971.html

Those wacky Republicans again. This reminds me that this morning I was cheered up by a couple of sentences I read in the paper today:

"And it seals a new truth in American politics: The debate that matters within the United States today is between conservatives and liberals within the Democratic party.  The Republican Party has become all but irrelevant."

-From The Globe & Mail article "Devastating' blow to GOP as seasoned senator defects"- 09-04-29


Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on April 29, 2009, 02:55:11 PM
Let's just say that the Shepard incident WAS a robbery.  Then
according to this man that justified what happened afterwards
because he was gay.  The man is using the hoax theory to belittle
hate crimes legislation which is as offensive as even believing what
he says is true or not.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on April 29, 2009, 02:59:53 PM
I just came across a fascinating article!

Lonely Hearts Find Comfort in TV Characters

"If you're having a lonely time or feeling down one evening, you can pick up Harry Potter and feel like you're connecting to Harry or Hermione or Ron," Gabriel told LiveScience. She compared it to using a diet pill to stop from feeling hungry, or in this case filling that sense of social emptiness.

continues:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20090429/sc_livescience/lonelyheartsfindcomfortintvcharacters;_ylt=AkoU4x0Ij.ewO4y57UcXMA0DW7oF

Yes, very fascinating, Michael.

I would say that it doesn't have to be just fictional characters, though.
I have been reading a non-fictional--history book lately and feeling the
same sorts of things about the people and vicariously living in that time
period and the social issues etc.

By the way, has anyone ever wondered why people are drawn
to the history of various time periods or peoples or whatever?
You have to admit that some people love various periods of
history and could care less about others.  Is it inborn or random
or what?  Why do I have a fascionation with one area and a
relative another.  Nature.  Nurture.  Just wondering.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on April 29, 2009, 03:04:19 PM
Another reason Antonin Scalia is a douchebag:

Justice Scalia On His Constitutional Rationale For the
FCC Fining Fleeting Profanity:
"We doubt that small-town broadcasters run a heightened risk of
liability for indecent utterances. Their down-home local guests
probably employ vulgarity less than big-city folks; and small-town
stations generally cannot afford or cannot attract foul-mouthed
glitteratae from Hollywood."


Is he an IDIOT or what?  Does he really believe that it makes
a difference where you're from as to what kind of language you
employ?  As though small-town america uses less profanity?
Well, shit.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/4/28/725296/-SCOTUS-Issues-F**king-Brilliant-Decision
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on April 29, 2009, 03:07:54 PM
Yes, very fascinating, Michael.

I would say that it doesn't have to be just fictional characters, though.
I have been reading a non-fictional--history book lately and feeling the
same sorts of things about the people and vicariously living in that time
period and the social issues etc.

By the way, has anyone ever wondered why people are drawn
to the history of various time periods or peoples or whatever?
You have to admit that some people love various periods of
history and could care less about others.  Is it inborn or random
or what?  Why do I have a fascionation with one area and a
relative another.  Nature.  Nurture.  Just wondering.

Hard to say Lyle - but I think you're on to something.  There certainly is a huge group of people who are attracted to the Civil War and the antebellum period.  That has always baffled me - rather like celebrating the period around the French revolution.

And, of course, there are rafts of people who are obsessed with royalty as well.  I was made aware of this when I had a patron who was very incensed over the way that Richard II had been portrayed in a particular book and wanted the contact information for the Richard II society (yes...there is one).
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on April 29, 2009, 03:13:04 PM


Is he an IDIOT or what? 

yes
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on April 29, 2009, 03:31:26 PM
I just came across a fascinating article!

Lonely Hearts Find Comfort in TV Characters



Good article.

I like the last line:

Quote
"They think it's almost illogical - you watch a show or get a book and you think, 'Stupid, these people don't even exist,'" Gabriel said. "But that's the beautiful thing about human empathy."

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Ennis Del Mark on April 29, 2009, 07:04:00 PM
Thanks for the article, Michael!

Describes me to a tee!

I was saying last week how part of me wishes life could like FRIENDS or THE GOLDEN GIRLS.

Hold that thought--I think Gladys Kravitz is at the door...
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: garyd on April 29, 2009, 08:02:20 PM
I just came across a fascinating article!

Lonely Hearts Find Comfort in TV Characters
Jeremy Hsu
Staff Writer
LiveScience.com jeremy Hsu
staff Writer
livescience.com – Wed Apr 29, 10:24 am ET



I think this might explain a lot about the "cult of celebrity" as well.
Quite a bit of pathological behavior there in my opinion.

On the other hand, escapism is not necessarily unhealthy.
Retreating to the theatre, or TV, or a book, concert, cabaret, is not
in and of itself, damaging.
Moderation in all things, I suppose.
What brings on the obsessive, additive behavior,
is the underlying question, I think.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: WhenPigsFly on April 29, 2009, 09:53:17 PM
A Virginia rep called Mathew Shepard's Death a Hoax.

"I also would like to point out that there was a bill -- the hate crimes bill that's called the Matthew Shepard bill is named after a very unfortunate incident that happened where a young man was killed, but we know that that young man was killed in the commitment of a robbery. It wasn't because he was gay. This -- the bill was named for him, hate crimes bill was named for him, but it's really a hoax that that continues to be used as an excuse for passing these bills," said Foxx.


It's been reported that Judy Shepard was in the House gallery when that insensitive statement was made.   

Keith Olbermann was visibly disgusted by Foxx and made her today's Worst Person in the World.
 

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: CellarDweller115 on April 30, 2009, 05:15:52 AM
I was saying last week how part of me wishes life could like FRIENDS or THE GOLDEN GIRLS.


I remember a time when I wasn't socializing with any gay people, and feeling out of place, even among my friends.  I became completely obsessed with the show Beverly Hills, 90210, and would watch every show.

Thankfully, after 5 seasons, I moved on to real life.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on April 30, 2009, 12:23:50 PM
I was saying last week how part of me wishes life could like FRIENDS or THE GOLDEN GIRLS.

I remember a time when I wasn't socializing with any gay people, and feeling out of place, even among my friends.  I became completely obsessed with the show Beverly Hills, 90210, and would watch every show.

Thankfully, after 5 seasons, I moved on to real life.

Well you always have reminded me a little of Brenda...(and Mark of Rose....)

The very first fandom I got involved with was for Dark Shadows, the TV show.  I went to two of the conventions (I even have the Vlad Dracula t-shirt to prove it).  It's very interesting, but (much like the Civil War reenacters I referred to before) I don't think I could maintain that level of interest for a prolonged time.

I also thought it was interesting that the article about this referred to the Jane Austen fanatics - I recall that a few years ago there was a huge fuss about whether or not a director had changed the ending of a Jane Austen novel for film.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: CellarDweller115 on April 30, 2009, 12:51:24 PM
'Top Gun' Star Kelly McGillis Confirms Lesbian Rumors


Tom Cruise's girlfriend in the 1980s hit "Top Gun" confirmed in an interview the longstanding rumor that she's gay.

Kelly McGillis told the Internet show Girl Rock! that she was single, and in the market for a female partner.

"Definitely a woman," she said when asked if she's looking for a man or a woman. "I'm done with the man thing. You need to move on in life."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,518463,00.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on April 30, 2009, 03:03:06 PM
Poll: Americans love France, San Francisco, Europe, and NYC

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/4/13/719435/-Poll:-Americans-love-France,-San-Francisco,-Europe,-and-NYC (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/4/13/719435/-Poll:-Americans-love-France,-San-Francisco,-Europe,-and-NYC)

FAVUNFAVNO OPINION
ALL65%24%11%
MEN63%28%9%
WOMEN67%20%13%
DEM71%21%8%
REP58%32%10%
IND64%23%13%
OTH/REF61%26%13%
NON VOTERS66%20%14%
WHITE64%25%11%
BLACK68%22%10%
LATINO66%23%11%
OTHER/REF67%20%13%
18-2969%20%11%
30-4463%26%11%
45-5966%22%12%
60+62%27%11%
NORTHEAST72%16%12%
SOUTH48%42%10%
MIDWEST70%19%11%
WEST75%14%11%

Quote
Check it out, this is fascinating stuff. Everyone likes San Francisco. Even Republicans (58-32). In fact, there is only one demographic that radically differs from all the rest -- Southerners. I bet that If we could take out Southern Republicans from this sample, Republicans in the rest of the country look like everyone else.
This is all significant for a reason I'll state further below. For now, let's look at three other conservative geographic boogeymen: New York, France, and Europe. (Full crosstabs at the link above.)



Quote
Republicans have solidly favorable ratings (as do every other demographic tested), but head down South, and it's a whole different world, dramatically out of step with the rest of America.

What's this mean? It means that all that France and Europe demonizing, and all that talk of "San Francisco liberals" and "San Francisco values", and all that New York bashing (like Rush leaving Manhattan), plays to a very small core of people, and specifically to the conservative's Southern base.

This is clear evidence that the GOP has become a rump regional party. Because everyone else in America is just scratching their head at all that hatred directed at these places. They like San Francisco a lot. They love France. They think Europe is fantastic. And not even the New York Yankees can get people to hate on the Big Apple. And the more the Rushes and Becks bash those places, the more out of step with the Real America conservatives appear.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on April 30, 2009, 04:40:41 PM
This is clear evidence that the GOP has become a rump regional party.

Ah!  Well that explains Jeff Gannon and Tom Foley.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on April 30, 2009, 09:05:38 PM
WHOO HOOO!!!!!!

U.S. Supreme Court Justice Souter to retire: reports
18 mins ago

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – U.S. Supreme Court Justice David Souter plans to retire, U.S. media reported on Thursday, a development that would give President Barack Obama his first chance to make an appointment to the court.

continues:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090501/ts_nm/us_usa_court_souter_1
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on May 01, 2009, 02:44:22 AM
This is clear evidence that the GOP has become a rump regional party.

Ah!  Well that explains Jeff Gannon and Tom Foley.
*snicker*  :D

(and the mind boggles at all the names that cold be added to that list)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on May 01, 2009, 02:59:12 AM
i'm not sure how i feel about any resignations from the court, at least until scalia, alito, thomas, or roberts takes a hike...or has an "accident".   
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on May 01, 2009, 08:10:57 AM
Rachel Maddow Interviews Matthew Shepard's Mother Judy Shepard

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCPR2Uyak80 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCPR2Uyak80)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on May 01, 2009, 09:14:44 AM
i'm not sure how i feel about any resignations from the court, at least until scalia, alito, thomas, or roberts takes a hike...or has an "accident".   


I agree with you. I wish it was Scalia or Thomas was resigning.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: WhenPigsFly on May 01, 2009, 10:32:55 AM
Rachel Maddow Interviews Matthew Shepard's Mother Judy Shepard

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCPR2Uyak80 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCPR2Uyak80)

Despite the victory, she looked and sounded SO tired (not physically, just emotionally used up).  I thought it was a very sad interview.

And Keith made Rep Foxx his Worst Person of the World again yesterday because of her CYA meaningless apology:  "IF I offended [Matthew's] family..."
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on May 01, 2009, 11:01:41 AM
I guess Fath Goers favor torture.



http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/04/30/religion.torture/
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on May 01, 2009, 12:39:52 PM
i'm not sure how i feel about any resignations from the court, at least until scalia, alito, thomas, or roberts takes a hike...or has an "accident".   

I agree with you. I wish it was Scalia or Thomas was resigning.

Well yeah Jack and Tom.  But sadly we don't always get what we wish for.  However, for my money, ANY Supreme Court replacement that Pres. Obama gets to do is one that George Bush (or anyone following Pres. Obama) didn't get to do.

I would hope for an epidemic of H1N1 among the right of the justices, but I don't think that does much good.  I was holding on with screeching nails for the Pres. to get in on Jan. 20th, because I was convinced that Stevens (or Ginsburg) would be the first to leave the court.  And maybe if this goes well they will be tempted to leave.  Every justice that Pres. Obama replaces is a good thing as far as I'm concerned - as they serve for so long that his impact will go on long past his administration.

And this is shortly after his first 100 days!

Good news, at least to me - although I certainly understand the position that Jack and Tom share.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on May 01, 2009, 01:38:06 PM
well, i certainly give souter credit for sticking it out until obama came in to preserve such balance as there was.  and i also take heart that, properly chosen, ie young, the new "balance" will last for a while.  i fully expect ginsburg to leave during obama's tenure, and stevens is rapidly approaching 90, which is old even for scotus.  i am a little worried about a possible "moderate" appointee that might temporize on gay rights issues.  if i want to tease myself a little, i wonder if he would have the stones to nominate a *gasp* gay candidate.  i could forgive a world of slights to see a gay man or lesbian on the supreme court   
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on May 01, 2009, 02:21:44 PM
if i want to tease myself a little, i wonder if he would have the stones to nominate a *gasp* gay candidate.  i could forgive a world of slights to see a gay man or lesbian on the supreme court   

Well as I recall there was some speculation as to whether or not Souter already fit that bill.  But I'm supposing you mean an out gay or lesbian.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on May 01, 2009, 02:55:32 PM
yes... i meant an OUT gay justice..

obama's stated criteria for his selection
Quote
Now, the process of selecting someone to replace Justice Souter is among my most serious responsibilities as President. So I will seek somebody with a sharp and independent mind and a record of excellence and integrity. I will seek someone who understands that justice isn't about some abstract legal theory or footnote in a case book. It is also about how our laws affect the daily realities of people's lives -- whether they can make a living and care for their families; whether they feel safe in their homes and welcome in their own nation.

I view that quality of empathy, of understanding and identifying with people's hopes and struggles as an essential ingredient for arriving as just decisions and outcomes. I will seek somebody who is dedicated to the rule of law, who honors our constitutional traditions, who respects the integrity of the judicial process and the appropriate limits of the judicial role. I will seek somebody who shares my respect for constitutional values on which this nation was founded, and who brings a thoughtful understanding of how to apply them in our time.

As I make this decision, I intend to consult with members of both parties across the political spectrum. And it is my hope that we can swear in our new Supreme Court Justice in time for him or her to be seated by the first Monday in October when the Court's new term begins.

bolding and italics mine.

i know what it would take for me to feel that way...
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: doodler on May 01, 2009, 04:13:26 PM
Sounds like BO is looking for a black lesbian with a Spanish-American surname.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on May 03, 2009, 05:00:47 PM
Since we've already talked about e-books here, this seems like interesting news:

Amazon (AMZN) Kindle Users Are Old, Feeble
May 1, 2009 at 4:13 am

Someone at technology news site, Cnet, came up with the clever idea of running a poll to learn the age of people who use Amazon’s miracle book reader, the Kindle. Seven hundred people responded, which puts the survey somewhat below what researchers would expect from Gallup, but it is a reasonable straw poll, nonetheless.

What surprised Cnet and what should surprise anyone who looks at the results is that 50% of the people who use Kindles are over 50 years old. Twenty-seven percent were over 60.

Since the Kindle qualifies as “new technology”, it is supposed to find its initial market among the young and impressionable. The opposite appears to be true. People who should have fixed habits including reading physical books using reading glasses are buying an electronic book reader instead.

The Kindle is not cheap. With money being tight, it may be that older, affluent consumers are much more likely to spend $359 than the younger, unemployed people who will graduate from college this year. The e-books are expensive, too. A copy of “Master Your Metabolism: The 3 Diet Secrets to Naturally Balancing Your Hormones for a Hot and Healthy Body!” costs $9.99. People under 50 are not likely to buy that book anyway. Buying a magazine is a better deal. An issue of The Reader’s Digest for Kindle costs only $1.25, but that is a publication for older people, as are most of the Kindle magazines which include old people favorites Forbes, The Atlantic, and US News. It is interesting that Teen People is not one of the magazine titles being offered for Kindle.

continues:

http://247wallst.com/2009/05/01/amazon-amzn-kindle-users-are-old-feeble/
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: WhenPigsFly on May 03, 2009, 07:47:41 PM
Since we've already talked about e-books here, this seems like interesting news:

I know someone who's late 40s, early 50s who just bought the new version of Kindle and loves it.  He keeps 2-3 books going at a time, and says this is the perfect system for him (doesn't have the tactile "hangup" many of us do!).  His only complaint: many books he wants to read aren't available.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on May 03, 2009, 08:08:57 PM
I'm not surprised at the Kindle market at all.

I'm sure there are a lot of us slightly old folks who have less than perfect eyesight. It's one of the reasons I have trouble reading books anymore. I do much better reading online where I can adjust the font.

And as a person who spends a good portion of time at work training and fixing the mistakes of younger workers I reject the notion that I'm less tech oriented than someone 30 years younger.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: huntinbuddy on May 03, 2009, 09:01:10 PM
And as a person who spends a good portion of time at work training and fixing the mistakes of younger workers I reject the notion that I'm less tech oriented than someone 30 years younger.

AMEN!
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on May 04, 2009, 07:09:13 AM
Specter says he will not be a loyal Democrat. So, why is Obama supporting him? Like I said before, I wish he hadn't switched. But than again he did switch before in the '70's. He was originally a Democrat before. He is an opportunist. I HOPE he fail to get nomination, but I doubt it. He'll stay in a will not vote for Heath Care reform or the Free Work Act either. So, no change.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/03/specter-wont-back-public_n_195325.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on May 04, 2009, 07:43:04 AM
I also forgot that Dave's Columbine book is number one here in Minneapolis.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Ellen (tellyouwhat) on May 04, 2009, 08:17:05 AM
Specter says he will not be a loyal Democrat. So, why is Obama supporting him? Like I said before, I wish he hadn't switched. But than again he did switch before in the '70's. He was originally a Democrat before. He is an opportunist. I HOPE he fail to get nomination, but I doubt it. He'll stay in a will not vote for Heath Care reform or the Free Work Act either. So, no change.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/03/specter-wont-back-public_n_195325.html

seems to me he is just trying to be a person who votes his conscience.

If anything, aligning with one party or the other is probably the best way to get elected.

So he is saying to his constituents -- "I am no longer one of those crazy Republicans, but when I run for office, I won't be a real Democrat either."

It is his only re-election strategy. 

IMO we would be MUCH better off if most in Congress or the Senate did not always feel so much pressure to vote with the party.  That was a big problem during the Bush years.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: tonydude on May 04, 2009, 10:50:39 AM
     With regard to the Swine Flu reports - one person's following the news stories is another person's imminent pandemic.  Depends on where you are and what your general health is.  In my case, while not having a bug-phobia like Howie Mandell, I have followed this outbreak because I am subject to a breathing disorder at times, that can be severe, and though this flu is being called mild, I sure don't wanna catch it, for that reason.  So, yeah, I did do a few trips to the store for hand sanitizer, bleach, and other stuff.
  It's been comforting that the total number of cases in the U.S. is just a little over 200, and nothing much really showing up....until last night.  My luck, as usual.  Norfolk has it's first case, and where would that be?  Oh, about 7 blocks from me; same street: Pleasant Avenue.  Since neither the child nor his family have been travelling, that probably means the bug is cheerfully making its way through the neighborhood somehow.
  I guess you define a pandemic, then, on whether it's something that got to your immediate vicinity, or something you read about as way out somewhere else.  Myself, am still happy to read this is a mild influenza, but am also a litle whacked out that, of 4 cases in Virginia, one of them just had to be......on my street.  Anyway, maybe it'll be just the one case.  Hope so.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on May 04, 2009, 12:09:04 PM
Stop watching so much news!

I stopped watching alot of news in the fall of 2001, right after
the 9/11 events and the mailing of anthrax to some people.
Our local news channel one Friday night was begging viewers
to watch the news that evening because all night they were
following reports of a white powdery substance found at the
desk of a government office worker.  It was reported by workers
and ten downtown buildings were evacuated because this
substance threatened to contaminate thousands of workers.
After several hours of people getting hyped up out of all proportion
and filled with fear, they fnally reported that a guard had been eating
powdered donuts at the desk.

That's when i said enough is enough.  News is in the business
of getting people to watch them and they do it by fear or fad.  Pick
and choose your news viewing and remember, less is more.

There's 306,331,350 people in the U.S. and around 200 of them
even have this thing and yet you'd think it was War of the Worlds.
Los Angeles, known for its ties to Mexican populations and the
second most populous city in the U.S. doesn't even have a
substatiated case?  Is this really cause for all the hype?
Chicken Little News--If you don't watch us, how will you know
what to be afraid of?
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on May 04, 2009, 12:59:48 PM
Stop watching so much news!

Or at least stop taking it so seriously.  I stopped well over 2 decades ago when I saw the hysteria that surrounded AIDS reporting.  My favorite was the press conference that Margaret Heckler held after the virus was discovered (and a test for it was imminent).  She came out on the stage and said "Now we are safe!"

At about that time I decided that I was not part of the 'we' in question.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: tonydude on May 04, 2009, 01:17:40 PM
  Lyle, I agree absolutely - - - the media hypes things up to increase ratings and just, sometimes, to inflate a story when there isn't much else going on to report.  But, basically, I was just noting how whacky this one was for me.  I do need to avoid this bug, mild as it is, because of an unpredictable and occasionally severe breathing disorder.  And, whoops, there it is, a case just down the street.
  For most people, Swine Flu is no particular lethal threat, and, yes, the hype is way visible.  I think there's a book, "The Politics of Terror", where the author goes into a long list of phony crises, but I don't remember the author's name.
 But, stop reading about it?  Nah.  It's not in Mexico or NYC or Madrid..... it's a few blocks away, and that was just bad luck for me.  Am not all in a panic.  This one's fairly easy - wash your hands, and often.  Just as you would with an outbreak of any other bug.  And keep in mind what Roseanne Rosanna Dana used to say on Saturday Night Live:  It's always something.....
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on May 04, 2009, 02:14:02 PM
Fascinating story:

The mystery of Everett Ruess' disappearance is solved
An aging Navajo man's story of witnessing a homicide and burying the victim leads to remains -- and leads scientists to the answer to a 75-year puzzle.

By Thomas H. Maugh II
May 2, 2009

His name might not rank with Amelia Earhart's and Judge Crater's, but the disappearance of Everett Ruess has been an enduring legend of the Southwest for 75 years.

Only 20 at the time of his disappearance, the writer, artist and environmentalist who has been compared to a young John Muir was last seen near Utah's Davis Gulch in 1934. Numerous search parties failed to find him, and authors have speculated widely about his demise. Many believed he drowned in the Colorado River.
Modern forensic technology, however, has shown that a weathered skeleton discovered last year by a young Navajo investigating an old family secret is that of Ruess, who was apparently killed by Ute teenagers, Colorado researchers said Thursday.

"I am pretty well convinced that this has got to be Everett," said author W.L. "Bud" Rusho of Salt Lake City, who has written extensively about Ruess.

Questions remain about the fate of Ruess' journals, box camera and other belongings, but the discovery caps a story that has been the subject of books, documentaries and abiding speculation.


Ruess had roamed the Southwest for four years, sending home elegant letters to his family, composing poems, and producing intricate wood carvings. Despite his young age, he was a confidant to Western artists, including Dorothea Lange and Ansel Adams.

In his last letter to his family, Ruess wrote: "As to when I shall visit civilization, it will not be soon, I think. I prefer the saddle to the street-car, the star-sprinkled sky to a roof."

His slaying was apparently witnessed by a young Navajo man, Aneth Nez. After a 37-year silence, Nez told his granddaughter, Daisy Johnson, that he had watched from Comb Ridge near the Utah-Arizona state line as three Utes killed a young white man. Nez asked her to take him to the site above Chinle Wash where he had buried the body in a crevice. Memories of the event had been haunting him, and he wanted to retrieve a lock of hair for a healing ceremony.

Last year, Johnson told her younger brother Denny Bellson about the episode and took him to the area of the grave. In a telephone news conference arranged by National Geographic Adventure magazine, where the new findings are being reported, Bellson said he found the grave site in an hour and a half.

"When I looked in the crevice and saw the top of the skull there, I knew it was him," Bellson said. Also at the site was his grandfather's saddle, which had been left behind because it had gotten bloody.

Bellson called in the FBI, which investigates homicides on Native American territory. After a cursory investigation at the site in which agents shattered the skull, the FBI concluded the victim was a Navajo "and that I was wasting their time," he said.

But the remains were excavated by Ron Maldonado, the Navajo Nation's supervisory archaeologist, and sent to anthropologist Dennis Van Gerven of the University of Colorado at Boulder. Van Gerven had never heard of Ruess and was "actually not interested," he said, but persistent inquiries from David Roberts, a contributing editor at National Geographic, persuaded him to examine them.

continues:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-sci-ruess2-2009may02,0,7055090.story
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: WhenPigsFly on May 04, 2009, 02:49:41 PM

Bellson called in the FBI, which investigates homicides on Native American territory. After a cursory investigation at the site in which agents shattered the skull, the FBI concluded the victim was a Navajo "and that I was wasting their time," he said.

I eagerly await a clarification from the FBI saying the agents accidentally dropped the skull and were misquoted. 
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on May 04, 2009, 03:17:17 PM
sad and fascinating...one now wonders now about inter racial relations at that time, and one might even speculate about percieved sexuality entering the equation.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on May 04, 2009, 10:05:56 PM
Mitcham Isolated After Mexico Trip

Aussie diver Matthew Mitcham has put himself into voluntary isolation after flying home from Mexico City from a competition that was canceled due to swine flu.

The Olympic gold medalist says he has no flu symptoms but that he and his partner will stay at home with face masks and anti-flu medicine, according to the Brisbane Times.

http://www.advocate.com/news_detail_ektid82114.asp (http://www.advocate.com/news_detail_ektid82114.asp)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: WhenPigsFly on May 05, 2009, 03:11:00 PM
"There's still time for the Minnesota courts to do justice and declare Norm Coleman the winner."
~~ "Democrat" Arlen Specter  5/5/09

Title: Voices from Vermont and America on Credit Card Rip-Offs
Post by: Jer009 on May 06, 2009, 01:05:09 AM
(snip)
Yesterday, I distributed a booklet to my Senate colleagues which reprinted a small number of them, demonstrating in often-heartbreaking manner the extraordinary greed and callousness of some of the largest financial institutions in our country. I have also read some of these testimonials on the floor of the Senate.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rep-bernie-sanders/testimonies-on-credit-car_b_197151.html

Jeremiah
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: CellarDweller115 on May 06, 2009, 08:02:20 PM
Gay Issues in View, Obama Is Pressed to Engage
By SHERYL GAY STOLBERG
Published: May 6, 2009



WASHINGTON — President Obama was noticeably silent last month when the Iowa Supreme Court overturned the state’s ban on same-sex marriage.

But now Mr. Obama — who has said he opposes same-sex marriage as a Christian but describes himself as a “fierce advocate of equality” for gay men and lesbians — is under pressure to engage on a variety of gay issues that are coming to the fore amid a dizzying pace of social, political, legal and legislative change.

Two of Mr. Obama’s potential Supreme Court nominees are openly gay; some advocates, irked that there are no gay men or lesbians in his cabinet, are mounting a campaign to influence his choice to replace Justice David H. Souter, who is retiring. Same-sex marriage is advancing in states — the latest to allow it is Maine — and a new flare-up in the District of Columbia could ultimately put the controversy in the lap of the president.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/07/us/politics/07obama.html?hp
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: huntinbuddy on May 06, 2009, 08:49:38 PM
Just when I thought I had hopefully heard the last of Joe the Plumber, here is an article that was in my local paper tonight.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_JOE_THE_PLUMBER?SITE=MOCOD&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

What a f**k, this guy is.  Probably will have his own talk radio show soon, that is, if he is not elected to some public office....sheeesh.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: killersmom on May 06, 2009, 08:59:33 PM
Just when I thought I had hopefully heard the last of Joe the Plumber, here is an article that was in my local paper tonight.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_JOE_THE_PLUMBER?SITE=MOCOD&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

What a f**k, this guy is.  Probably will have his own talk radio show soon, that is, if he is not elected to some public office....sheeesh.

Damn, what an idiot.  I liked what the President of the Human Rights Campaign said about him, that "he doesn't matter". And now he has God speaking to him?? !!
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on May 06, 2009, 09:11:15 PM
Treasury Department Issues Emergency Recall Of All US Dollars

http://www.theonion.com/content/video/treasury_department_issues (http://www.theonion.com/content/video/treasury_department_issues)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: graylockV on May 07, 2009, 11:19:23 AM
Just when I thought I had hopefully heard the last of Joe the Plumber, here is an article that was in my local paper tonight.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_JOE_THE_PLUMBER?SITE=MOCOD&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

What a f**k, this guy is.  Probably will have his own talk radio show soon, that is, if he is not elected to some public office....sheeesh.

Damn, what an idiot.  I liked what the President of the Human Rights Campaign said about him, that "he doesn't matter". And now he has God speaking to him?? !!

If people who pay attention to Rush Limbaugh are "ditto-heads," then those who pay attention to "Joe-the-Plumber" must be "shitto-heads." 

(And his name isn't Joe, and he's not really a plumber.  And he talks this way to a publication called Christianity Today.  Talk about taking the Lord's name in vain!)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on May 07, 2009, 12:13:15 PM
Just when I thought I had hopefully heard the last of Joe the Plumber, here is an article that was in my local paper tonight.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_JOE_THE_PLUMBER?SITE=MOCOD&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT


Since the election, Wurzelbacher has spoken at conservative rallies
around the country and traveled to Israel as a rookie reporter to cover
the Gaza conflict.


This made me laugh out loud--maybe someone was just trying to
get him out of the country.  Joe the Reporter?  Amazing what
credentials this guy has!  My suspicion is that Dr. Seuss made
this guy up.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on May 07, 2009, 09:41:51 PM
today commander in chief of the armed forces of the united states barack hussein obama presides over the discharge of an highly regarded west point trained graduate arab linguist because he said in public "i am gay". 

how does this protect us from "enemies foreign and domestic" as stated in his oath.

oh yes, dan choi, the above described, is an iraq veteran.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/aaron-belkin/obama-to-fire-his-first-g_b_199070.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: WhenPigsFly on May 08, 2009, 03:42:27 AM
today commander in chief of the armed forces of the united states barack hussein obama presides over the discharge of an highly regarded west point trained graduate arab linguist because he said in public "i am gay".  

I saw Dan Choi on Rachel's show tonight. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#30632035

But before she intereviewed him, she told of a letter Obama had sent to another solider who was kicked out of the Army earlier this year after coming out to her superiors. 

Rachel emphasized that the letter was handwritten and that Obama had expressed a "commitment" to change the DADT policy (in time, because he has to work with Congress).


But the HuffPost article contradicts Obama: 

"President Obama does, in fact, have stroke-of-the-pen authority to suspend gay discharges. "

Is that true?
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on May 08, 2009, 06:20:14 AM
the statement is true, but it doesn't contradict obama.  he can halt further investigatons, but he cannot remove or rescind dadt.  clinton signed that right away.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Ellen (tellyouwhat) on May 08, 2009, 07:39:04 AM
i'm a little disturbed that you invoke "hussein" for this discussion.

 ???

I know it's his middle name.  And you know that's not the point, exactly...
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on May 08, 2009, 11:39:40 AM
i am sorry if it roubles you ellen, but i believe if you take into account the context, it makes perfect sense to use his full name.  i even wrote out fully his title and united states.

hussein is an honorable name, and you had better get used to it, as their will certainly be a lot of baby husseins growing up near you soon.   

would hillary rodham clinton or william jefferson clinton be equally troubling?
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on May 08, 2009, 12:01:16 PM
A face to the name:  DAN CHOI
(http://image.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/Dan_Choi(1).jpg) (http://www.akawilliam.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/danchoirachelmaddow.jpg)

(http://imgs.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2009/04/12/ba-west_point_ga_0500021661.jpg)(http://www.pinknews.co.uk/images/danchoi.jpg)(http://www.armytimes.com/xml/front/military_knightsout_031609w_287.JPG)

(http://images.ocregister.com/newsimages/2009/03/05/tu.equalityrally.rp3_lg.jpg)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: WhenPigsFly on May 08, 2009, 12:07:13 PM
the statement is true, but it doesn't contradict obama.  he can halt further investigatons, but he cannot remove or rescind dadt.  clinton signed that right away.

Yes, I understand he can't undo DADT.  But that he COULD BUT WON'T issue an order that would allow people like Choi to remain in the Army, just deflates my enthusiasm for him even more (his apparent lack of concern about whether or not Bush and pals should be subjected to the rule of law has already caused my ambivalence towards him to grow daily).
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: bubba on May 08, 2009, 12:08:09 PM
Obama sets off debate with unAmerican choice of mustard


 :D

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2009/05/08/obama-sets-off-debate-with-unamerican-choice-of-mustard.aspx
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on May 08, 2009, 12:17:25 PM
would hillary rodham clinton or william jefferson clinton be equally troubling?

During the campaign, people used Obama's middle name to infer
certain things.  That seems to be the context in which his middle
name appears.  It is usually invoked to stir up these images or
just to invite negativity.  Like a tone of voice.  Or a mother getting
a misbehaving child's attention--Listen to me William Jefferson
Clinton.
  Anyone's middle name is usually used to get attention
of some kind.  Obama's is usually used to bring about some
negative energies.  Just my point of view.  Plus, I seriously disagree
with your assertion that people are going to start naming their children
Hussein.  When "Roots" was on there were numerous stories on tv
that people were naming their children Kunte and Kizzy and even Rooster!
Well, those people would be 32 years old now and I have never heard of
anyone named Kunte or Kizzy or Rooster.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: bubba on May 08, 2009, 12:19:15 PM
http://amfix.blogs.cnn.com/2009/05/08/dont-ask-dont-tell-continues-under-obama/


I just now saw the Lt. Dan Choi case!   Terrible, the army better worry more about people like this "animal"  



http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/05/08/kentucky.iraq.soldier.rape/index.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on May 08, 2009, 12:40:36 PM
  When "Roots" was on there were numerous stories on tv
that people were naming their children Kunte and Kizzy and even Rooster!
Well, those people would be 32 years old now and I have never heard of
anyone named Kunte or Kizzy or Rooster.

Well, there's this "Rooster", but I heard that he wouldn't like Brokeback Mountain.

(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj282/SanFranciscoJohn/200px-RoosterCogburnwayne2775.jpg)

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on May 08, 2009, 12:45:20 PM
Obama sets off debate with unAmerican choice of mustard
 :D

That article really IS informative:

(By the way, I think--in this first sentence, in context of the rest
of the article, the question was meant to say "What kind of man
eats mustard on a burger", not ketchup.)

Quote
Several reasoned answers to the question, “What kind of man
eats ketchup on a burger?” come from another source: David Frum
blogging at NewMajority.com, the site that is “building conservatism
so it can win again.”
 
“First answer: Texans.
Texans traditionally eat hamburgers with mustard or with mayonnaise
(or with both), but without ketchup. This is simply called a ‘hamburger’
in Texas, but is sometimes called a ‘Cowboy Burger’ or a ‘Texas Burger’
outside of Texas.  A hamburger with ketchup is sometimes called a
‘Yankee Burger.’ A hamburger with mayonnaise is sometimes called
a ‘Sissy Burger’ …

Second answer: Republicans. A 2000 survey of members of Congress
by the National Hot Dog Council found that 73% of Republican law
makers preferred mustard to ketchup, as opposed to 47% of Democratic
lawmakers.

Final answer: traditionalists. Louis’ Lunch in New Haven, Conn., the
restaurant widely believed to have served the first hamburgers ever
made in the United States, absolutely forbids ketchup.”

Have you ever heard of these things Linda or Ellen (former and current
Texans)?  Cowboy Burgers!  Why would a hamburger with mayonaisse
be called a Sissy Burger?  All sorts of things come to mind. 

And also amusing:
Quote
They [Republicans] feel if they keep chipping away at President
Obama with nonsensical complaints, it will slowly erode his popularity.
The problem they face is that they look like loons doing it, and all the polls
point to the same conclusion. It’s good for ratings on Fox, because those
uber-loons are watching the little horde of Republican lunatics in action
with a fervent glee, but mainstream America is laughing at them.”

Uber-loons  -- lol!
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on May 08, 2009, 12:50:47 PM
Well, there's this "Rooster", but I heard that he wouldn't like Brokeback Mountain.

I thought that was Marion.

His father was a drug dealer (pharmacist).

We could get married now in the state he was born in:  Iowa!
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: fritzkep on May 08, 2009, 12:53:48 PM
Wow, Lyle, are you proposing to John?

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on May 08, 2009, 12:58:01 PM
Wow, Lyle, are you proposing to John?



I am not moving to Iowa, even for Lyle.

Connecticut, maybe, but it would take an awfully big engagement ring to sway me.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: bubba on May 08, 2009, 01:09:26 PM

A hamburger with mayonnaise is sometimes called
a ‘Sissy Burger’ …



Honestly I have never known a single soul who has ate mayo on a burger.  But hey I am Canadian! lol   I am with the President, if you are gonna have mustard, kick it up a notch and break out the Grey Poupon.



Oh and I did know a Chihuahu called Kizzy and she was named after Kizzy on ROOTS, not sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing.   
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on May 08, 2009, 01:38:32 PM
the statement is true, but it doesn't contradict obama.  he can halt further investigatons, but he cannot remove or rescind dadt.  clinton signed that right away.

Yes, I understand he can't undo DADT.  But that he COULD BUT WON'T issue an order that would allow people like Choi to remain in the Army, just deflates my enthusiasm for him even more (his apparent lack of concern about whether or not Bush and pals should be subjected to the rule of law has already caused my ambivalence towards him to grow daily).
i kinda thought that was what i was saying.  nor is the above what you asked.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on May 08, 2009, 01:44:44 PM
would hillary rodham clinton or william jefferson clinton be equally troubling?

During the campaign, people used Obama's middle name to infer
certain things.  That seems to be the context in which his middle
name appears.  It is usually invoked to stir up these images or
just to invite negativity.  Like a tone of voice.  Or a mother getting
a misbehaving child's attention--Listen to me William Jefferson
Clinton.
  Anyone's middle name is usually used to get attention
of some kind.  Obama's is usually used to bring about some
negative energies.  Just my point of view.  Plus, I seriously disagree
with your assertion that people are going to start naming their children
Hussein.  When "Roots" was on there were numerous stories on tv
that people were naming their children Kunte and Kizzy and even Rooster!
Well, those people would be 32 years old now and I have never heard of
anyone named Kunte or Kizzy or Rooster.
i think you got my intent just right.  it was meant to scold.

on the other hand, i hardly think there is a comparison between kunte kinte and hussein, which is already a regularly occurring if not exactly common name in the usa thanks to our multicultural society.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: doodler on May 08, 2009, 01:55:39 PM
I'm neither Republican nor Texan (although I was stationed at Ft. Sam for while,) and I like both ketsup and mustard on my burgers BUT if I choose to use only one, it is mustard. I HATE burgers with sauces (like Whoppers and Big Macs) and those are usually mayonaise based.

And I know two Kizzy-s... one 65 years old and from Cincinnati Ohio and the other in her 20s or 30s and from southern California. I also know a couple Husseins from my Ringling days... but they may have been deported by now.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Ellen (tellyouwhat) on May 08, 2009, 02:17:40 PM
i am sorry if it roubles you ellen, but i believe if you take into account the context, it makes perfect sense to use his full name.  i even wrote out fully his title and united states.

hussein is an honorable name, and you had better get used to it, as their will certainly be a lot of baby husseins growing up near you soon.   

would hillary rodham clinton or william jefferson clinton be equally troubling?

of course not --

and I hope Obama goes by his entire name in the Arab world, if it will help anything.

But here it is usually invoked as short hand for "terrorist"-- just because you disagree with this one example, is he now on your sh*t list forever?

I think he will do the right thing.  I know you're tired of waiting. 

Or maybe it's possible there is something I'm missing here.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Ellen (tellyouwhat) on May 08, 2009, 02:28:36 PM

Have you ever heard of these things Linda or Ellen (former and current
Texans)?  Cowboy Burgers!  Why would a hamburger with mayonaisse
be called a Sissy Burger?  All sorts of things come to mind. 


hehehe-- well, to paraphrase Lyle Lovett:  "I'm not from Texas!"  Although I live here.

My son has been here since he was one year old and inexplicably prefers mayannaise on his hamburgers.  His dad and I just thought it was another example of his eccentric nature!

They do all kinds of weird stuff here, like barbecue is never supposed to have sauce on it, until AFTER -- (cold sauce?  not even melted on the BBQ?)

and the name for fried chicken is CHICKEN-fried chicken, which is redundant, for one thing.  ::)

That list is by no means complete.

But maybe Linda can shed more light on the mayannaise thing.  Me, I eat ketchup on my burgers and I love it.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: garyd on May 08, 2009, 02:32:59 PM
Texas to the bone marrow here.

Born in Illinois and every Saturday was spent with my grandfather.  Haircut, then hamburger (with ketchup), french fries  and chocolate malt at the local "diner'.

Moved to Texas, age 7.

Hamburgers are served with mustard, mayo, and usually lettuce and, sometimes, dill pickle slices.
Cowboy burgers are served with BBQ sauce and,usually, a big thick slice of onion.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: bubba on May 08, 2009, 02:34:58 PM
Jimmy: I'm gonna keep the coke and the fries but I'm gonna send this burger back. And if you put any mayonnaise on it, I'm gonna come over to your house, I'll chop your legs off, set fire to your house, and watch as you drag your bloody stumps out the door.



Jimmy: Every red-blooded American knows that the only condiment that you are ever supposed to put on a hamburger is KETCHUP! Or MAYBE some of that SPECIAL SAUCE you like so much here in Canada; which I think has a little bit of mayonnaise in it too! But I swear to God when they start slapping that mayonnaise on there I could kill somebody.



Quotes from the Whole Nine Yards (the movie)  :D


http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0190138/quotes
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: fritzkep on May 08, 2009, 02:38:37 PM
I'm neither Republican nor Texan (although I was stationed at Ft. Sam for while,) and I like both ketsup and mustard on my burgers BUT if I choose to use only one, it is mustard. I HATE burgers with sauces (like Whoppers and Big Macs) and those are usually mayonaise based.

And I know two Kizzy-s... one 65 years old and from Cincinnati Ohio and the other in her 20s or 30s and from southern California. I also know a couple Husseins from my Ringling days... but they may have been deported by now.

I was at Ft Sam too, in 1971-72. Beautiful base. Also stationed in Texas at Ft Bliss in 1970-71, where at the time there was a Vietnamese language school.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: garyd on May 08, 2009, 02:42:13 PM

They do all kinds of weird stuff here, like barbecue is never supposed to have sauce on it, until AFTER -- (cold sauce?  not even melted on the BBQ?)

and the name for fried chicken is CHICKEN-fried chicken, which is redundant, for one thing.  ::)

That list is by no means complete.

But maybe Linda can shed more light on the mayannaise thing.  Me, I eat ketchup on my burgers and I love it.

Correct, BBQ NEVER is cooked with the sauce.  The meat is barbecued or smoked and the sauce is served to the side.
No exceptions, even ribs. (but the sauce should always be served warm, even hot)

It is Southern Fried Chicken (tho there is another name as well which escapes me).
Southern Fried is usually simply dusted in flour and salt and pepper (in a paper bag) and fried in bacon grease.
When done, the remaining bacon grease is used to fry okra.

It is Chicken Fried Steak...with gravy.  This is a WHOLE different discussion.
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Gay Advocates Eye Supreme Court
Post by: Jer009 on May 08, 2009, 02:53:27 PM
Supreme Court: Mostly Straight Males

"There have been 110 Supreme Court judges and 106 of them have been straight, white men," said Denis Dison, vice president of the Victory Fund. "So it's high time to look outside those institutions that produced Supreme Court justices in the past and find someone with different life experiences and different perspectives."

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=7532279&page=1
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: garyd on May 08, 2009, 03:07:11 PM


But here it is usually invoked as short hand for "terrorist"-- just because you disagree with this one example, is he now on your sh*t list forever?

Heh, heh, heh,
the left wing of the Dems desert their leadership almost as fast as the right wing nuts of the Rep's desert theirs.

Problem is the right wing nuts went and got themselves elected and pushed all the moderates off a cliff. 
If only the left wingers would do the same then all this mutiny could be seen on the national stage.
Selfish as they are, I am sure the right wingers would "share the cliff".
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: WhenPigsFly on May 08, 2009, 04:48:57 PM
 
and the name for fried chicken is CHICKEN-fried chicken, which is redundant, for one thing.  ::)

That list is by no means complete.

But maybe Linda can shed more light on the mayannaise thing.  Me, I eat ketchup on my burgers and I love it.


I'm third generation Texan and I never HEARD of ketchup on a burger until I was 23 and HAD to move to Yankee-land (yes, that was quite some time ago ).

I grew up putting mayo/mustard  on hamburgers, then switched to mustard only.

Ellen, Chicken-fried chicken is made from boneless, flattened breasts, served with gravy made from pan drippings.  Not the same as fried chicken.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on May 08, 2009, 05:07:21 PM
If only the left wingers would do the same then all this mutiny could be seen on the national stage. Selfish as they are, I am sure the right wingers would "share the cliff".

The thing is that people on the left have never had a reasonable alternative to the democratic party.  I suppose that you could consider what happened with Ross Perot and Bush senior on the right to be paralleled by Nader and Gore on the left - but there has never been a serious left wing party in the United States in my lifetime [prior to my lifetime there was La Follette and the Progressives].  On the right (in my lifetime) there has been both the American Independent Party (which ran Wallace) and the Reform Party (you could argue about whether or not this was right wing or nativist, but their comments about Mexico have always made me thing of them as being on the right).

I've always thought that the far more reasonable alternative to people on the left has been immigration to Canada.  It is a country where socialized medicine (love it or hate it) has been around for years, where they pursue a non-interventionist foreign policy and where social issues like abortion and gay marriage are settled relatively calmly.  What I have never understood is why there has not been a push from Americans who resettled north of the border to point this out and 'light the way' for people down here who might like to move north.

And, by the way, considering that there has not been a banking crisis in Canada and that they seem to be relatively energy independent and have dealt well with their first nations people it also seems (along with countries such as Sweden) to put to lie the notion of the 'loony left.'

As far as those on the right go, with the demise of Apartheid in South Africa and the death of Franco I can't think of too many countries that they can look to that would have policies anywhere near what they aspire to.  Perhaps Australia, but that's a big stretch.  Of course they could always consider learning Russian - Putin and his successor seem to be pushing their nation in that direction.  After the Civil War there were a number of confederates who left for South American - but now South American governments seem to be way to the left of the U.S.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on May 08, 2009, 07:01:04 PM
White House readying Stonewall proclamation for Gay Pride month?

Is the Obama White House preparing a historic first -- a proclamation recognizing the 40th anniversary of the Stonewall Rebellion, the landmark event of the gay rights movement?

That's what San Francisco-based blogger Michael Petralis says this week.

Quote
Back in March, I had an idea regarding some proper national attention for the 40th anniversary of the Stonewall Rebellion in New York City that launched the modern gay political movement - ask President Barack Obama to sign a proclamation commemorating this milestone.

My friend Patricia Nell Warren, author of the classic gay novel "The Front Runner" and a civil rights advocate for many years, agreed to draft such a proclamation for me to submit to the White House. Click here to read her terrific draft. http://mpetrelis.blogspot.com/2009/03/obama-asked-to-sign-stonewall-40.html (http://mpetrelis.blogspot.com/2009/03/obama-asked-to-sign-stonewall-40.html)

Since then, I've communicated with Brian Bond, an openly gay man in the White House Office of Public Liaison, about whether the LGBT community could depend on the president to build on the fabulous letter he sent last June to the Alice B. Toklas Democratic Club of San Francisco.

Today, Brian sent me this fabulous bit of news:

A draft is being prepared as we speak in preparation for June. First one since 2000!

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/nov05election/detail?entry_id=39806&tsp=1 (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/nov05election/detail?entry_id=39806&tsp=1)

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on May 08, 2009, 09:17:07 PM
so mote it be...
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Ellen (tellyouwhat) on May 09, 2009, 09:45:58 AM


It is Chicken Fried Steak...with gravy.  This is a WHOLE different discussion.
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D



seriously, gary -- I understand "chicken-fried steak" but I'm not lying, they say "chicken-fried chicken" with a straight face and it is even printed that way on menus!

Maybe this is only Dallas? oops no I have seen it in the hill country too.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Ellen (tellyouwhat) on May 09, 2009, 09:48:17 AM

Ellen, Chicken-fried chicken is made from boneless, flattened breasts, served with gravy made from pan drippings.  Not the same as fried chicken.

Oh so THAT explains it!   :o

Thank you, that clears up the big mystery.

But IMO that should be called steak-fried chicken.   :D
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Ellen (tellyouwhat) on May 09, 2009, 10:03:25 AM


But here it is usually invoked as short hand for "terrorist"-- just because you disagree with this one example, is he now on your sh*t list forever?

Heh, heh, heh,
the left wing of the Dems desert their leadership almost as fast as the right wing nuts of the Rep's desert theirs.

Problem is the right wing nuts went and got themselves elected and pushed all the moderates off a cliff. 
If only the left wingers would do the same then all this mutiny could be seen on the national stage.
Selfish as they are, I am sure the right wingers would "share the cliff".


sorry for all the multiple posts -- but this gets to the heart of things -- if you talk about the "left wing" of the Democratic party, the problem is that is where most people would list gay rights and most of the morality stuff.

Maybe, when you say left-wing, you mean financial policy, but most people mean the above.

And michaelflanagan is correct, at present we don't really have a completely "rightist" country to point to, unless it would be somewhere in the third world, or in the last century -- if it was ever the United States, you would have to go back to the gilded age, which we have done our best to repeat (including the resulting depression.)

Gary, do you think Obama is left-wing?
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: garyd on May 09, 2009, 11:13:12 AM


It is Chicken Fried Steak...with gravy.  This is a WHOLE different discussion.
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D



seriously, gary -- I understand "chicken-fried steak" but I'm not lying, they say "chicken-fried chicken" with a straight face and it is even printed that way on menus!

Maybe this is only Dallas? oops no I have seen it in the hill country too.

You are correct.  I simply forgot all about chicken fried chicken.
JD is right on the money.
Thanks, JD, for the reminder!
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: garyd on May 09, 2009, 11:27:55 AM


But here it is usually invoked as short hand for "terrorist"-- just because you disagree with this one example, is he now on your sh*t list forever?

Heh, heh, heh,
the left wing of the Dems desert their leadership almost as fast as the right wing nuts of the Rep's desert theirs.

Problem is the right wing nuts went and got themselves elected and pushed all the moderates off a cliff. 
If only the left wingers would do the same then all this mutiny could be seen on the national stage.
Selfish as they are, I am sure the right wingers would "share the cliff".


sorry for all the multiple posts -- but this gets to the heart of things -- if you talk about the "left wing" of the Democratic party, the problem is that is where most people would list gay rights and most of the morality stuff.

Maybe, when you say left-wing, you mean financial policy, but most people mean the above.

And michaelflanagan is correct, at present we don't really have a completely "rightist" country to point to, unless it would be somewhere in the third world, or in the last century -- if it was ever the United States, you would have to go back to the gilded age, which we have done our best to repeat (including the resulting depression.)

Gary, do you think Obama is left-wing?


No, I do not think he is "left wing"(based upon my posts, what would prompt you to ask such a question?) though I hesitate to say so in a forum like this for fear that it may be concluded that if someone like me approves of him, he must be toxic.   I find him refreshing, articulate, intelligent, and a skillful leader.
The jury is out on his economic theories and policies but he deserves and has earned his day in court.
I just hope that the left will not abandon him too quickly simply because he has not fired the first shot in the "revolution" they have all been dreaming about for the last fifty years.
There are a variety of social issues which need to be addressed and I think will be addressed. The fact that they have not been addressed in the first 100 or so days of his administration does not mean, to me at least, that he has abandoned his resolve.
That being said, it never hurts to keep reminding the administration that "patience" can only be stretched so far.

Problem is, the Dem party is such a large tent that the retreat of the left wing base is not as devastating to election opportunities as the retreat of the Rep right wing base. The moderates have been systematically drummed out of the ReP party and now there is little left but a cadre of bigots and religious freaks.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Ellen (tellyouwhat) on May 09, 2009, 12:00:14 PM
oh no, gary, I didn't think you thought of Obama that way -- just clarifying.

So, to answer your last point --- IMO he is gaining the best credibililty he can for the most people in the country, and that means the economy has to come first.  Not to mention that nasty war on the side.  Not to mention the elephant in the middle of everybody's room -- health care.

You're right, there are some people screaming because Obama didn't take this "golden opportunity" and nationalize the banks.  (in my opinion, if banks were run like utilities that would be fine -- but I will settle for re-regulation and reserve requirements.)

So -- on one side, the right-wingers who call Obama a socialist don't have enough leverage because he isn't nationalizing the banks --

and on the other side, many people are disgruntled because of dadt and similar issues.

I guess I am feeling pretty good because he is working on my personal holy grail -- a solution to health care.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: garyd on May 09, 2009, 12:51:49 PM
LOL, well if he nationalizes banks, or anything else for that matter, you can expect my
"tune" to change quite dramatically.
I know you feel that government knows best, but I ain't there yet.
As Michael points out, there is always Canada (too cold for my tastes and the health care isn't all it's cracked up to be just take a look at the Canadian patient loads at the Mayo Clinic, M.D. Anderson, and Stanford) or, perhaps soon, Cuba. (too humid but lord knows the government runs everything
and everyone seems to be happy, equally poor, and totally content)

Utilities, in most areas of the country, are highly regulated but  still private/public enterprises.
It was partially due to the byzantine government utility regulations in California that led to the rolling black outs
and the Enron machinations.  Had we been free to purchase on the open market and lock in long term contracts, we would
not have been quite as vulnerable to the evil Enron market price manipulations.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Ellen (tellyouwhat) on May 09, 2009, 12:59:00 PM
and LOL again  :D --

you're right about the weather in Canada and Cuba.

One thing I really scratched my head over was back in the nineties when smart people at my (now defunct) bank were making decisions to move out of California so everything including labor would be cheaper.

But, boss (I thought)  we are in California -- we don't want to move to Arizona!  :o

What is the answer to live in nice weather, do you have to be really rich or else really poor?

No, I say, we have to fight for middle class occupation of the good weather areas!

and bring health care to the good weather areas too!
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on May 09, 2009, 01:13:59 PM
well, i have the really poor half of the warm weather equation covered!
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: garyd on May 09, 2009, 02:07:20 PM
well, i have the really poor half of the warm weather equation covered!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Bless you Jack.
I know the clime is better than New York, (it was New York state, right?)
but, honestly, shouldn't we have left Florida to the alligators?   ;)

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: garyd on May 09, 2009, 02:21:24 PM

What is the answer to live in nice weather, do you have to be really rich or else really poor?

No, I say, we have to fight for middle class occupation of the good weather areas!

Bwaaaa....
I KNEW your true colors would finally shine through!
That is the answer, lets "appropriate" all those wasted, greedy, moderate weather located properties in Highland Park, River Oaks,
Belevedere, Malibu, et al, and turn them over to the masses. 
There will be no need for forums such as this since we can all chat away in the large communal kitchens
as we all gather around the hearth, sharing the bounty from our organic gardens, laughing, singing folk songs,
spinning yarn, weaving rugs, and while our children, Bliss, Harmony, Moonbeam, and Galactica string guitars and
play their lutes.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Ellen (tellyouwhat) on May 09, 2009, 02:46:52 PM
gary, there you go again, getting all radical on me --

No, I can't really imagine life without those places as the never-never lands --

I would be okay with a little toe-hold in the San Fernando Valley.  Not too far away from the canyons.

:)


and I was thinking about the revolution you imagine the lefties are dreaming of.  Except, we would be happy with a mere return to America's values when torture was against the law.

In fact, so much of Obama's big agenda is just trying to undo the Bush mistakes, and that's a lot.

Still, I hope there is something you can get a Bwaa out of in my posts -- I like it best when you're laffin'
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: garyd on May 09, 2009, 04:07:24 PM

No, I can't really imagine life without those places as the never-never lands --
Now see, that's the difference, perhaps, between you and me.  Why should those places be relegated to never never lands?
They aren't and they never have been.
Problem is, I am beginning to think that you actually believe that "intellectual progressives wrote the Constitution"
If BBM has taught us anything, surely it is the danger of believing in myth over reality.

Quote
I would be okay with a little toe-hold in the San Fernando Valley.  Not too far away from the canyons.

:)
LOL, well if the Valley is your idea of utopia, I think something can be worked out.
(No offense, I assume the area holds some sort of nostalgia for you)

Quote
and I was thinking about the revolution you imagine the lefties are dreaming of.  Except, we would be happy with a mere return to America's values when torture was against the law.
We ALL want that darlin'.

Quote
In fact, so much of Obama's big agenda is just trying to undo the Bush mistakes, and that's a lot.
Well, they all made mistakes.  The potential tragedy with the shrub is that he may not realize it.
But, Ellen my dear, I think you need to purge yourself of this Bush thing.
Gather up some shoes , toddle on over to Preston Hollow and get it out of your system! :D

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on May 10, 2009, 11:33:19 AM
Utilities, in most areas of the country, are highly regulated but  still private/public enterprises.
It was partially due to the byzantine government utility regulations in California that led to the rolling black outs
and the Enron machinations.  Had we been free to purchase on the open market and lock in long term contracts, we would
not have been quite as vulnerable to the evil Enron market price manipulations.

Government utility REGULATIONS???  The whole Enron manipulation
started when they wanted to DE-regulate everything.  You know, so the
consumers can have more choice and the free-market competition will allow
prices to drop.  Whenever you hear the word deregulation. hold on to your
wallets.

Quote
In the spring of 1998, Enron plunged into California, hoping to snatch retail
customers away from Pacific Gas & Electric Co. and the other old-line utilities.
Under the deregulation plan, California's retail electricity market was opened
up to competition. Any creditworthy seller could market the juice, and its
customers paid local utilities a fee to deliver it over existing wires.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: doodler on May 10, 2009, 12:39:49 PM
I believe in socialized utilities, right along with health care. Fat chance, but there it is.

And I believe anyone who wants to live in California and is dumb enough to put up with fires, earthquakes, landslides, etc (just to mention the "natural" side of life in Eden) should be allowed to do so.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on May 10, 2009, 01:07:34 PM
And I believe anyone who wants to live in California and is dumb enough to put up with fires, earthquakes, landslides, etc (just to mention the "natural" side of life in Eden) should be allowed to do so.

I'd have to say that having lived here since 1980 and never experienced a wildfire or landslide, and having only lost a glass pitcher in a the 1989 magnitude 7.1 earthquake I must say that in retrospect living in a city with beautiful scenery, both classical and pop music venues within walking distance from my apartment and enough restaurants that I could eat out every night for the rest of my life without repeating myself it seems worth it.  Particularly considering that I became part of a gay community with bookstores and events (also within walking distance from my apartment) that I would not have had access to had I remained in Michigan and waited for man made economic devastation.

All in all it's been a win-win.  As I used to tell my mother - we never know when an earthquake is coming.  Every October you can be pretty sure that you'll get about 6 months of snow.

But, of course, the manipulation of the energy market by Enron had little to do with the forest fires here...remember Grandma Millie?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/06/01/eveningnews/main620626.shtml
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on May 10, 2009, 01:54:14 PM
I get several very small earthquakes around my house every week. I"ve only felt a few of them over the last year and a half.

When I lived in Michigan I had damage to my house caused by ice and thunderstorms more than a few times. I've lost hundreds of dollars worth of electronic equipment from lightning. We rarely have thunderstorms out here.

As far as being worried about earthquakes, yes I am a little, but I's be a lot more worried if I lived near the New Madrid fault. At least here in CA they are somewhat prepared. I have actually experienced heavier shaking from earthquakes in Michigan than I have since I moved to CA.

Quote
The next time the New Madrid Fault produces such a quake, it is estimated 60 percent of Memphis will be devastated, leaving $50 Billion in damage and thousands of dead in its wake. Memphis, you see - like Armenia - has looked down the barrel of a loaded seismic gun for decades, but has done virtually nothing to move out of the crosshairs

http://www.hsv.com/genlintr/newmadrd/ (http://www.hsv.com/genlintr/newmadrd/)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: fritzkep on May 10, 2009, 01:57:49 PM
Yes, I'm always a bit nervous and aware of the possibilities whenever I'm travelling around the area where Missouri, Kentucky and Tennessee meet. The big one there was in 1819.

But it doesn't keep me from going there!

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: doodler on May 10, 2009, 01:58:15 PM
And I lived in the San Fernando Valley for some time in the early 60s. Never again, never again! Having spent much of my life in Cincinnati where we had all the amenities you mention, I found myself totally unimpressed and eventually left because of... the LACK of weather and no seasonal changes. So boring! I now live in the mountains of Tennessee where we have 4 seasons, but no extremes... we also have no "culture." However, the older I get, the less inclined I am to be social... I find myself planning my trips into town to include everything I might have to do for a week at a time and resenting it when I have to go back in before that time is up. Different strokes for different folks at different times in their lives!
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on May 10, 2009, 02:06:49 PM
We have 2 seasons up here in Sonoma County. Hot and dry, and cool and wet. Yes it's boring, but we do get a lot of fall color. I actually miss thunderstorms, but not tornados.

Cultural opportunities are limited. That's one thing I miss about Michigan. San Francisco is ok in that respect, but it still doesn't compare to what's available in Detroit. Of course I'd much rather live in the city of SF than Detroit, and that may be coming this summer.


Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on May 10, 2009, 02:29:09 PM
Cultural opportunities are limited. That's one thing I miss about Michigan. San Francisco is ok in that respect, but it still doesn't compare to what's available in Detroit.

I'm not quite sure what I'm missing here that I would get in Detroit (aside from long a** rides up and back to concerts).  The Opera, Symphony and Ballet are (respectively) two and three blocks from my house, and as opposed to the Detroit Institute of Arts I can choose between the Asian Art Museum (again, 3 blocks from my apartment), the DeYoung Museum, the Museum of Modern Art and countless smaller museums (like the Folk Art and Cartoon museums).  I've got the San Francisco Botanical Garden a short train ride away and free concerts in Golden Gate Park.  My love of San Francisco may be due to my own particular taste in music - I tend not to go to pop music concerts - and we get the most obscure and newest acts in the world coming through town.  We've got the ACT and Orpheum Theater, the Berkeley Rep and several small theater groups.  If I need to see Celine Dion or Elton John it's simply a BART ride away to SFO and Las Vegas.

Oh, and to keep this all with the news and current events my congratulations go out to Detroit upon the election of its third mayor in a year...lots of luck to Mr. Bing.  Don't text message any aides.  We wouldn't want you to suffer the double kwame.

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/may/10/heller-bing-right-choice-to-get-detroit-motoring-a/

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on May 10, 2009, 03:41:57 PM
It's not the pop music I miss so much, it's the jazz mostly.

I would love to have the easy access to the venues in SF. I'm working on it.

Detroit was a long drive from Bay City, but actually less of a hassle than 101 and the GG bridge toll. For big concerts, I could get to the Palace in less time than it takes me to get to SF now.  Except in a blizzard  ;D
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on May 12, 2009, 01:05:39 AM
Conflicts of Interest Taint Medical Studies
Robert Roy Britt
Editorial Director
livescience.com – Mon May 11, 1:45 pm ET

A new review of studies finds 29 percent of cancer research published in high-profile journals had disclosed a conflict of interest.

While it's a good thing that the conflicts were disclosed, the review also found conflicts affect the research outcomes. The results, announced today, will be published June 15 in the journal Cancer.

The findings add to a mountain of evidence suggesting you should be skeptical of health and medical advice.

Other investigations have indicated that many medical studies simply are not accurate. Further, the media is known to distort key aspects of medical studies, twisting findings by virtue of ignorance, blowing obscure, unpublished "breakthroughs" out of proportion, and frequently failing to disclose industry funding even when the researchers do mention it.

Even common existing treatments can be found pointless, as in 2007 when researchers showed that honey works better than cough medicines in soothing children's coughs.

Industry ties

Drugs are, of course, big business. So there is incentive to fund studies that will shine positive light on a drug. Other industries do the same. A recent study funded by gum-maker Wrigley found - no surprise - that chewing lots of its sugarfree gum can help you cut down on calories.

The most frequent type of conflict revealed by the new review was industry funding of the study, found in 17 percent of papers. In another 12 percent, at least one of the study authors was employed by the industry - drug companies and others aiming to market treatments to patients.

Drug trials with reported conflicts of interest were more likely to have positive findings, the review revealed.

"Given the frequency we observed for conflicts of interest and the fact that conflicts were associated with study outcomes, I would suggest that merely disclosing conflicts is probably not enough," said study author Dr. Reshma Jagsi, an assistant professor of radiation oncology at the University of Michigan Medical School. "It's becoming increasingly clear that we need to look more at how we can disentangle cancer research from industry ties."

Many of the studies are likely wrong anyway, other research indicates.

Medical scholar John Ioannidis of the Ioannina School of Medicine in Greece and Tufts University in Medford, Mass. has analyzed medical studies over the years and concludes that most are flawed by poor study design, bad math or self-serving data analysis. Other researchers have countered, however, that multiple studies of a given treatment tend to clearly bear findings out or refute them over time.

continues:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20090511/sc_livescience/conflictsofinteresttaintmedicalstudies;_ylt=Al4s8LTsyCSg6qnL9IVlmQsDW7oF
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on May 13, 2009, 07:31:26 PM
Governor wants to sell L.A. Coliseum, San Quentin [Updated]
5:32 PM
May 13, 2009

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger wants to sell the Los Angeles Coliseum, San Quentin State Prison, the Orange County Fairgrounds and other state property to raise cash amid the state's growing fiscal crisis, according to a copy of a proposal reviewed by The Times.

Sale of the properties, to be included in the governor's revised budget plan on Thursday, would raise between $600 million and $1 billion, although it would not provide relief to state coffers for two to five years, according to the proposal.

continues:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/05/governor-wants-to-sell-la-coliseum-san-quentin.html

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: fritzkep on May 13, 2009, 07:45:24 PM
Are the prisoners included?

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on May 13, 2009, 08:55:10 PM
ummm..

they have been gone for a while.  i wonder if the guy who bought the sf armory to make porn wants to trade up.

actually, it makes a perverse kind of sense, and is definitely thinking outside the box.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: garyd on May 13, 2009, 09:34:43 PM
San Quentin certainly still has prisoners.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on May 13, 2009, 11:57:22 PM
Are the prisoners included?

they have been gone for a while.

San Quentin certainly still has prisoners.

Indeed.  Here are the statistics from the California Department of Corrections website:

http://www.cdcr.ca.gov/Visitors/Facilities/SQ.html

[it has visiting hours listed...if anyone wants to check it out...]
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on May 14, 2009, 12:09:23 AM
There have been attempts to decommission San Quentin for years.  For example:

http://cssrc.us/web/12/publications.aspx?id=3627&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1

I would wonder that there wouldn't be a move to make it part of the National Park Service if it were decommissioned.  They could run ferries between it and another property of the park service:

http://www.nps.gov/alcatraz/
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: jack on May 14, 2009, 06:12:32 AM
whoopz...  :">

i wuz thinkin alcatraz
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on May 14, 2009, 07:15:46 AM
The FBI starts investigating Norm Coleman. Its about time.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/13/fbi-investigating-coleman_n_203204.html
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Marge_Innavera on May 14, 2009, 07:16:03 AM
One thing I really scratched my head over was back in the nineties when smart people at my (now defunct) bank were making decisions to move out of California so everything including labor would be cheaper.

But, boss (I thought)  we are in California -- we don't want to move to Arizona!  :o

What I periodically scratch my head about is the little spurts and freshets of vows, each election season, to 'move to Canada' (poor Canada!) if the election doesn't go the speaker's way. That seems to be fairly consistent on both the left and the right, as is the fizzling of the resolve within 48 hours after the election is over.  Lucky for Canada.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: garyd on May 14, 2009, 08:53:37 AM
whoopz...  :">

i wuz thinkin alcatraz
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
No harm, no foul.
In place of prisoners, Alcatraz now has tourists!
The tours are fun and kind of spooky, especially if one takes the "night tour"
but I have to believe there is better use of the land.
I could be talking out of my hat,however.  For all I know the National Park Service
may make a bundle off of those tours and use the money to fund other park services.
Yeah, right.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Ellen (tellyouwhat) on May 14, 2009, 11:30:47 AM

No, I can't really imagine life without those places as the never-never lands --
Now see, that's the difference, perhaps, between you and me.  Why should those places be relegated to never never lands?
They aren't and they never have been.
Problem is, I am beginning to think that you actually believe that "intellectual progressives wrote the Constitution"
If BBM has taught us anything, surely it is the danger of believing in myth over reality.

Quote
I would be okay with a little toe-hold in the San Fernando Valley.  Not too far away from the canyons.

:)
LOL, well if the Valley is your idea of utopia, I think something can be worked out.
(No offense, I assume the area holds some sort of nostalgia for you)

Quote
and I was thinking about the revolution you imagine the lefties are dreaming of.  Except, we would be happy with a mere return to America's values when torture was against the law.
We ALL want that darlin'.

Quote
In fact, so much of Obama's big agenda is just trying to undo the Bush mistakes, and that's a lot.
Well, they all made mistakes.  The potential tragedy with the shrub is that he may not realize it.
But, Ellen my dear, I think you need to purge yourself of this Bush thing.
Gather up some shoes , toddle on over to Preston Hollow and get it out of your system! :D



no more appetite for this gary -- I didn't say the SF Valley was my "utopia",  I just said it was hard to get a toe-hold there.  Woe be unto anyone who might harbor any nostalgia for the place, I suppose.  Except, you can grow oranges there, and lemons... but I won't bore you with all that.

It's actually just as good as Dallas, (in terms of architecture) but has better weather, fewer mosquitos, and the mountains and the ocean.

Anyway, I still don't know how you would characterize the writers of the Constitution if they were not intellectual or progressive.

I guess I must have been pushin' your invisible buttons again.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on May 14, 2009, 12:10:47 PM
What I periodically scratch my head about is the little spurts and freshets of vows, each election season, to 'move to Canada' (poor Canada!) if the election doesn't go the speaker's way. That seems to be fairly consistent on both the left and the right, as is the fizzling of the resolve within 48 hours after the election is over.  Lucky for Canada.

Moving to Canada is not something that I would suggest anyone take on as a lark.  It's a complex process - and getting a work permit is a complex process:

http://www.workpermit.com/canada/points_calculator.htm

You also need to consider the financial changes that would entail such a move and the salary you would make there vs. the salary you make here.  For me that was the defining decision for me - I'd have to work at least twice much as I do here in the U.S.

There are several good books for people who are interested, however, including these two:

http://www.amazon.com/How-Move-Canada-Primer-Americans/dp/0312349866

http://www.amazon.com/Living-Working-Canada-Third-Survival/dp/1901130401/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_c

It's easy for me to understand that notion of living in a country that does not easily get involved in international military expeditions, has a history of better relations with its first nations people, has a ready source of energy that makes it energy independent and has banks that are sensible enough not to get involved in bad investments might be attractive to many.  That is, of course, secondary to human rights considerations - like the fact that the decriminalized sodomy decades before the United States did and made marriage same sex marriage legal nationwide in 2005.  It's also easy for me to understand how someone in the U.S. would think that a country with four political parties might engender a wider spectrum of debate than in countries with a smaller number of political parties.

Canada has been used a political refuge for many from the United States for generations including those on the Underground Railroad, Native Americans such as Sitting Bull and the men who did not want to participate in the Vietnam War.  It is true that both the northern and southern borders of the U.S. have been crossed by people with less laudable political goals, such as the Mormon Fundamentalists who set up towns such as Bountiful in Canada and Colonia Juárez in Mexico, but that is (imho) not the point.

As someone whose father emigrated from Canada to the United States, I would hope that we do not have one set of values for those with links to our southern neighbor and another for those with links to our northern neighbor.  Canadian-Americans share as much with the land of their ancestors as Mexican-Americans do.

I would also generally hope that those of us who have seriously considered this would not be treated dismissively.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: garyd on May 14, 2009, 12:42:44 PM

Anyway, I still don't know how you would characterize the writers of the Constitution if they were not intellectual or progressive.

I guess I must have been pushin' your invisible buttons again.

And I guess I should not presume to understand what you mean by the term "intellectual progressives".
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on May 14, 2009, 01:15:42 PM
Chrysler files bankruptcy court motion to eliminate 789 of its 3,200 US dealerships
DAN STRUMPFTOM KRISHER |  AP Auto Writers AP Auto Writers
1:53 PM CDT, May 14, 2009

NEW YORK (AP) — Chrysler LLC wants to eliminate roughly a quarter of its 3,200 U.S. dealerships by early next month, saying in a bankruptcy court filing Thursday that the network is antiquated and has too many stores competing with each other.

The company, in a motion filed with the U.S. Bankruptcy Court in New York, said it wants to shed 789 dealerships by June 9. Many of the dealers' sales are too low, the automaker said, with just over 50 percent of dealers accounting for about 90 percent of the company's U.S. sales.

Dealers were told Thursday morning through United Parcel Service letters if they would remain or be eliminated. The cuts are likely to devastate cities and towns across the country as thousands of jobs are lost and taxes are not paid.

Chrysler Vice Chairman Jim Press called the cuts difficult but necessary. He said the list of dealers is final and there will be no appeal process.

continues:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/sns-ap-us-chrysler-dealers,0,4034871.story
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on May 14, 2009, 02:21:45 PM
Chrysler files bankruptcy court motion to eliminate 789 of its 3,200 US dealerships

Dealers were told Thursday morning through United Parcel Service letters if they would remain or be eliminated. The cuts are likely to devastate cities and towns across the country as thousands of jobs are lost and taxes are not paid.

I saw the list of Michigan dealers that are being eliminated.

I'm sure the closings aren't going to help the local economies, but 'devastate' is a bit of a strech. Most of these cities have already been devastated by the Big 3 and their failure to adapt over the last 30 years.

 But I can't blame the automakers entirely. Some of them did try to get consumers to buy smaller, more efficient vehicles back in the early 80's, but somewhere along the way too many people started buying the big minivans, suv's, monster trucks that never got used for their intended purpose,  etc.

I can imagine that in the next couple of years auto prices are going to go through the roof due to lack of supply. It's almost as if someone planned this way ahead of time.




Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on May 14, 2009, 03:00:12 PM
I'm sure the closings aren't going to help the local economies, but 'devastate' is a bit of a strech. Most of these cities have already been devastated by the Big 3 and their failure to adapt over the last 30 years.

 But I can't blame the automakers entirely. Some of them did try to get consumers to buy smaller, more efficient vehicles back in the early 80's, but somewhere along the way too many people started buying the big minivans, suv's, monster trucks that never got used for their intended purpose,  etc.

Your point about devastation is well taken.  That ship has already sailed in cities like Flint and Saginaw.  However when I see that dealerships are closing in cities like Royal Oak and Holland, which are not epicenters of decay, I do get a little concerned.  I also see towns like Bad Axe and Owosso have dealerships that are closing - and in towns of that size I can see that having a business close could be a crushing blow.

It's also true that a lot of people in the 70s and 80s were trying to talk the auto industry into taking a different direction (and trying to talk the chambers of commerce in Michigan towns to diversify so that blows to the auto industry would not be so devastating).  When I left Michigan in 1980 it was in the midst of an economic downturn.  It came back, and I wished them well, but I'll never forget how loony they though those of us who preached environmental awareness and alternative energy were in the gas crisis of the 70s.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on May 14, 2009, 03:18:39 PM
I left Michigan in 1980 too. I remember that recession very well. Bay City lost about 25,000 people between 1978 and 1990 who moved to other parts of the country for work, and that was about 1/2 the population of the city at that time.

When I got to California that summer I noticed that in general the people out here were already driving smaller vehicles than the folks in Michigan. I assumed it would become a trend, but when I moved back to CA recently I noticed that there are a lot more of the bigger vehicles now than 25 or 30 years ago, and it's not just up here in wine country. I've noticed it in L.A. and S.F.



Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on May 14, 2009, 03:23:54 PM
When I got to California that summer I noticed that in general the people out here were already driving smaller vehicles than the folks in Michigan. I assumed it would become a trend, but when I moved back to CA recently I noticed that there are a lot more of the bigger vehicles now than 25 or 30 years ago, and it's not just up here in wine country. I've noticed it in L.A. and S.F.

Although I see a lot of smart cars on the streets in San Francisco I'll have to rely on your experience as I gave up having a car over 3 years ago.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on May 14, 2009, 03:25:32 PM
Governor plans to lay off 5,000 state workers
Matthew Yi, Chronicle Sacramento Bureau
Thursday, May 14, 2009

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger plans to lay off 5,000 state workers by the end June to help close a budget deficit that could reach $21.3 billion if voters reject budget-related ballot measures on Tuesday, according to a source familiar with the plan.

Schwarzenegger plans to send out the layoff notices to state workers by Friday, the source said, and the cuts will be made to some of the 20,000 state workers who received layoff warnings earlier this year.

continues:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/05/14/BARA17KK5C.DTL&tsp=1
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on May 14, 2009, 03:30:14 PM
 :D

Scott Peterson's house for sale?

Here's a rare opportunity to own San Quentin, one of the most prime properties in the San Francisco Bay Area. Owned by the state of California, this 432-acre gated community has obstructed, though world class, views of the bay. Built for 3,317 residents, it accommodates more than 5,000. Comes with 2,000 cozy bedroom suites, each has its own 3/4 bath. Spacious dining area adjacent to full-service kitchen. Custom-built, state-of-the-art security system. Rich concrete floors throughout. Parking, 24-hour doormen. Weight room and generous courtyard among the excellent recreational facilities. With a few cheerful curtains, Death Row easily converted to in-law unit. Famous current and former tenants include Scott Peterson, Richard Ramirez and Sirhan Sirhan.

continues:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/scavenger/detail?entry_id=40114
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: fritzkep on May 14, 2009, 03:42:37 PM
whoopz...  :">

i wuz thinkin alcatraz
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
No harm, no foul.
In place of prisoners, Alcatraz now has tourists!
The tours are fun and kind of spooky, especially if one takes the "night tour"
but I have to believe there is better use of the land.
I could be talking out of my hat,however.  For all I know the National Park Service
may make a bundle off of those tours and use the money to fund other park services.
Yeah, right.


Unfortunately, any and all profits go to the concessioner. And the fee for the concession to the Park Service tends to be minimal, despite the frequent howls on the part of the concessioners.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: garyd on May 14, 2009, 04:02:52 PM

Unfortunately, any and all profits go to the concessioner. And the fee for the concession to the Park Service tends to be minimal, despite the frequent howls on the part of the concessioners.

Yeah, Hornblower, right?
Well, it seems to be a big tourist attraction. 
I am just not convinced of it's true historical significance.
The island, yes,
the prison, I am not so sure.
It has to cost a decent sum to keep the old place in decent enough
shape for visitors to be allowed.
As I said, the tour is fun but not culturally important.

Angel Island, also located in the Bay, is a state park and offers both history and recreation.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on May 14, 2009, 04:11:35 PM
Angel Island, also located in the Bay, is a state park and offers both history and recreation.

And it makes a spectacular backdrop for Alcatraz.

(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj282/SanFranciscoJohn/angel-island-fire-1.jpg)
Angel Island on fire. October 2008.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Ellen (tellyouwhat) on May 14, 2009, 04:13:58 PM

Anyway, I still don't know how you would characterize the writers of the Constitution if they were not intellectual or progressive.

I guess I must have been pushin' your invisible buttons again.

And I guess I should not presume to understand what you mean by the term "intellectual progressives".


not really an answer, but a sidestep, that seems to imply I am not straightforward.

but really, my sig line is very straightforward.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: fritzkep on May 14, 2009, 04:22:46 PM
Angel Island, also located in the Bay, is a state park and offers both history and recreation.

And it makes a spectacular backdrop for Alcatraz.

(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj282/SanFranciscoJohn/angel-island-fire-1.jpg)
Angel Island on fire. October 2008.

Oh, John, I hadn't heard about this fire. I remember how great the island looked when we were on the boat going around it last August.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on May 14, 2009, 04:27:10 PM
Fritz, I saw the fire on my way home across the GG that night. It was pretty amazing. I'd never seen a fire that big before.
At first I thought it was Sausalito. I wasn't sure til I got home and read the news.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: garyd on May 14, 2009, 05:10:40 PM

not really an answer, but a sidestep, that seems to imply I am not straightforward.

but really, my sig line is very straightforward.

Not a side step at all.

Just what do you mean by "intellectual progressives"?
 
Do you mean people like Woodrow Wilson, Theodore Roosevelt, Herbert Cody, Charles Merriam?
If so, these men have little, philosophically, in common
with the authors of the Constitution.
The four above mentioned men  generally shared in common the view that government
at every level must be actively involved in reforms.
The existing constitutional system was outdated
and must be made into a dynamic, evolving instrument of social change,
aided by scientific knowledge and the development of administrative bureaucracy.

This is in almost direct opposition to the authors of the Constitution and their
adamant suspicion of a strong and overbearing federal government.
Monroe and Adams certainly altered their views to some degree but
not to the degree of early twentieth century "progressives".

Today, those who speak of the formative influences that made America
what it is today (whatever that is)  tend to endorse one of three main explanations.

Some emphasize material factors such as the closing of the frontier, the Industrial Revolution,
the rise of the modern corporation, and emergencies such as wars or the Great Depression,
which in turn led to the rise of the modern administrative state.

Second is the "rational choice" explanation.
In other words, once government gets involved
in providing extensive services for the public, politicians see that growth
 in government programs enables them to win elections.
The more government does, the easier it is for Congressmen to do favors for voters and donors.

Third, still other scholars believe that the ideas of the American founding itself are responsible for current developments.
Among conservatives, Robert Bork's Slouching Toward Gomorrah adopts the gloomy view
 that the Founders' devotion to the principles of liberty and equality
led inexorably to the excesses of today's welfare state and cultural decay.( :">)
Allan Bloom's best-selling The Closing of the American Mind
presents a more sophisticated version of Bork's argument.
Liberals like Gordon Wood agree,
but they think that the change in question is good, not bad.
Wood writes that although the Founders themselves did not understand the implications of the ideas of the Revolution,
those ideas eventually "made possible…all our current egalitarian thinking."  :-\

My own view is this: Although the first two of the three mentioned causes
(material circumstances and politicians' self-interest)
certainly played a part, the most important cause was a change
 in the prevailing understanding of justice among leading American intellectuals and,
 to a lesser extent, in the American people. Today's liberalism and the policies
that it has generated arose from a conscious repudiation of the principles of the American founding.'

I hope this helps explain why your "sig line" may be perfectly straightforward to you,
but a bit puzzling to others.




Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on May 14, 2009, 05:15:43 PM
Angel Island, also located in the Bay, is a state park and offers both history and recreation.

And Segway scooters.  :D ;)

I agree - I love Angel Island.  As far as history goes I've always thought that Fort Point was a bit more significant than Alcatraz.

Although just in terms of architecture and human ingenuity there is something to be said for Alcatraz.  In a way it reminds me of Sceilig Mhichíl off the coast of Ireland.  Humans shouldn't be able to live there, but did for a long time.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: garyd on May 14, 2009, 05:24:16 PM

And Segway scooters.  :D ;)


YES!!!
Have you taken the "scooter tour".
It is the absolute best. (Once you get the "hang" of the silly things.)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on May 14, 2009, 05:27:30 PM
YES!!!
Have you taken the "scooter tour".
It is the absolute best. (Once you get the "hang" of the silly things.)

Not yet, but you certainly planted the seed in my mind when you mentioned it to me once before.  Have you ever camped out there?  I have and it's an incredible experience.  After the last ferry of the night leaves it gets very quite and is incredibly pretty there.

I think that may be the last place I camped out.  It's not exactly my favorite thing to do (I'm not quite of the Fran Lebowitz notion that the great outdoors is the area between your front door and the cab door, but close).
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: BayCityJohn on May 14, 2009, 05:55:36 PM
Segway just moved into the offices next to us. They've been doing tours around town for $ 69.00


http://www.segwayofhealdsburg.com/ (http://www.segwayofhealdsburg.com/)
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: garyd on May 14, 2009, 06:08:55 PM
YES!!!
Have you taken the "scooter tour".
It is the absolute best. (Once you get the "hang" of the silly things.)

Not yet, but you certainly planted the seed in my mind when you mentioned it to me once before.  Have you ever camped out there?  I have and it's an incredible experience.  After the last ferry of the night leaves it gets very quite and is incredibly pretty there.

I think that may be the last place I camped out.  It's not exactly my favorite thing to do (I'm not quite of the Fran Lebowitz notion that the great outdoors is the area between your front door and the cab door, but close).

LOL, no I have not camped on the island. I endured enough "camping" with my youngest
son who was an avid, (rabid), boy scout.  He and his insane "leaders" had me tromping all over
the Sierra's and mountainous regions of New Mexico.
I have spent the night in the harbor, however, just off Angel Island.
A friend has a boat and every now and then he will "tie up" at one of the spots in the cove
and stay for the night.
It is a remarkable feeling once the island empties of visitors.

Anyway, I still highly recommend the Segway tour.  You get a 45 minute or so "instruction and practice" period before you embark.
Great fun.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on May 14, 2009, 06:15:34 PM
Segway just moved into the offices next to us. They've been doing tours around town for $ 69.00


http://www.segwayofhealdsburg.com/ (http://www.segwayofhealdsburg.com/)

Sounds like fun!  The price is right.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Ellen (tellyouwhat) on May 14, 2009, 08:51:52 PM
My own view is this: Although the first two of the three mentioned causes
(material circumstances and politicians' self-interest)
certainly played a part, the most important cause was a change
 in the prevailing understanding of justice among leading American intellectuals and,
 to a lesser extent, in the American people. Today's liberalism and the policies
that it has generated arose from a conscious repudiation of the principles of the American founding.'

I hope this helps explain why your "sig line" may be perfectly straightforward to you,
but a bit puzzling to others.


Great post gary, thank you!

You're right an intellectual progressive today is not the same as what would have been meant at the time the Constitution was written, but certainly the founders of our nation were intellectuals for their time, and they were progressive in trying a form of government that was still experimental.  They were forward thinking and also ahead of their time.

Today those words have been commandeered by the G.O.P. to lump together a stereotype of Ivy League, ivory tower types who want to march headlong into socialism or gay marriage etc. -- which is a mischaracterization and demeans education, and demonizes progressives (liberals -- an even more ominous word).

So my sig line can be taken at face value vis a vis the past -- but you're right, what IS an intellectual progressive today?

Absolutely right, you've hit on the point -- no one type of intellectual progressive can be pigeonholed into any tight little spot-- which is exactly why neither "intellectual" nor "progressive" is a reason not to vote for a Dem candidate.

I'm going to print your post and study it.  But I understand your point now.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on May 14, 2009, 09:43:35 PM
Governor plans to lay off 5,000 state workers
Matthew Yi, Chronicle Sacramento Bureau
Thursday, May 14, 2009

The Terminator...this time its your job....
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: WhenPigsFly on May 14, 2009, 10:12:42 PM

Petition to Obama in support of Lt. Choi

http://www.couragecampaign.org/page/s/dontfiredan
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: doodler on May 15, 2009, 10:20:24 AM
Meanwhile, back with the auto industry...
so far I've seen the consumer blamed for wanting big cars
and the manufacturers blamed for refusing to build more eco and economically friendly vehicles
but nowhere have I seen blame falling on the REAL reason the auto industry is in such a sorry state... ie the union.
It's really too bad these people who have made so much money for doing so little for so long... and yes, I'm talking about the factory workers... are bringing down the little guys... parts suppliers, mechanics, and support staff... with them.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: brokebacktom on May 15, 2009, 11:54:52 AM
Why do people hate Unions so much?
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Ellen (tellyouwhat) on May 15, 2009, 01:18:57 PM
oh dear --

not everyone hates unions so much, even at their worst (corruption, coercion) at least they provided reasons for non-union shops to adopt 40 hour workweeks, overtime, etc.

I also don't agree that a union worker doing his job in an auto factory isn't earning his pay.

I don't believe the unions are the reason for Detroit's problems today -- it's not as if any of us didn't know the price of gas would go up some day.  I know people bought all those  SUV's -- but Detroit bet the whole farm on that strategy.

They aren't having trouble because of paying high salaries to their factory workers, they are having trouble because they refused to move forward with innovations like Prius, etc.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on May 15, 2009, 01:22:02 PM
Schwarzenegger's budget proposals cut services, school year, state workers...   
By: kyamamura, sacbee.com   
Published: Fri, 05/15

http://www.sacbee.com/topstories/v-mobilestory/1863556.html

Quote
Under the governor's budget scenarios, schools would let out students five to seven days early, an oil company would drill into California waters near Santa Barbara for the first time in 40 years, low-income elderly and disabled residents would receive smaller grants, the laying off 5,000 state workers and borrowing a staggering $7.5 billion from financially strapped local governments and a cash-barren investment market, eliminating 225,000 children from health coverage, collecting an extra $2.8 million from residents of the state's veterans, higher fees at popular state parks, an insurance surcharge of $48 per homeowner, remanding about 8,000 low-level illegal immigrant prisoners to the federal government, and the proposed selling of major state assets, including Cal Expo, San Quentin State Prison, the Orange County State Fair Gorunds and the Los Angeles Coliseum, home to the first Super Bowl, World Series events,  World War II rallies, religious events by Billy Graham and the Pope, political events and the only site in the world to have hosted the Olympic games twice.

Los Angeles seems to think the Governor cannot sell the Coliseum just
because it's designated a state (and national) historic landmark, because they don't actually "own" it.

Maybe the right wing CA Christians, instead of worrying about same sex marriage, could start praying that California have no natural disasters for at least a decade.  The fire season, which is usually in the fall, has already cost the state 1/2 billion dollars THIS year.
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: fritzkep on May 15, 2009, 01:38:20 PM
But those kind of Christians delight in natural disasters, which they can blame on any group they don't like, not just gays.

Before gays, there were the Communists! :D

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on May 15, 2009, 01:41:51 PM
What do you California voters think of the voting propositions
on the ballot next Tuesday, Propositions 1A - 1F.  I was surprised
that polls show the voters are set to reject ALL of them, even though
the Governor and lawmakers have said we HAVE to do it.

I think one problem is this and it ties in with what Tom said
about people hating unions.  There is a very strong Teachers
Union and a very strong Firefighters and Police Union in CA.
Not to mention Nurses/Doctors unions.  All of these people
who are obviously worried about cutbacks and their jobs have
run ads on tv that are disingenuous and reek of self-interest.
The average voter right now wants to know the problem and if
these measures will help.  But you've got teachers on ads
surrounded by distraught looking children scaring you into
voting for these measures (You've got to save the children,
you know--it worked for Prop. 8 supporters).  Then you have the
handsomest firefighters and policemen on earth warning of dire
cutbacks that will affect your personal safety and property.  But the
real intent is the unions saving their employees jobs.  The ads are
so insincere about the true intent that it makes you want to slap all
the participants.  And, vote NO.

I don't think alot of people are even going to vote.  My inclination
at the moment is the hell with all you politicians and to vote no
as well.  If you actually read all the stuff about these propositions
it seems most of them are lose/lose either way.  Or, confusing at
best.  When voters are confused. they usually vote negatively.

Undecided.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on May 15, 2009, 02:34:45 PM
The Tucson Citizen - R.I.P.

Our epitaph
May 15, 2009, 11:43 a.m.
Tucson Citizen
news@tucsoncitizen.com

This is it. After 138 years five months and 16 days, this is the last Tucson Citizen to be published. So goodbye.

I have been here for the last 25 of those years and I think I speak for us all and those who came before us - when I say it has been an honor to be a part of the community, invited daily into you homes and given the opportunity to tell the news of Tucson.

It was a sad moment when an executive from Gannett, the company that owns the paper, informed us the Citizen was worth more to its parent dead than alive.

Ouch.

Monetarily, he is right. It costs more to produce, print and distribute this paper than we are contributing in revenue.

However, the Citizen does have worth that is being erased.

There's the loss of the stories we covered that other news media did not. Also our very existence made our competitors work harder - and be better.

Newspapers don't just close, they die.

And death is personal.

It is touching how many readers wrote about their attachment to the paper. More than one questioned, "What will I do without my Tucson Citizen?" Whether it was not knowing who Brenda Starr will date next, to the loss of Cal Thomas, to thanking our local columnists for making them think, to appreciating the reporters who dig for stories about our readers, their neighbors and their elected and unelected officials.

Many expressed profound worry about the staff and what we will do - a worry that is warranted.

The industry lost 12,000 jobs last year and this year is looking worse. We are the third major daily paper to shut down this year.

continues:

http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/daily/breakingnews/116643.php
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: garyd on May 15, 2009, 02:44:41 PM
oh dear --

not everyone hates unions so much, even at their worst (corruption, coercion) at least they provided reasons for non-union shops to adopt 40 hour workweeks, overtime, etc.

I also don't agree that a union worker doing his job in an auto factory isn't earning his pay.

I don't believe the unions are the reason for Detroit's problems today -- it's not as if any of us didn't know the price of gas would go up some day.  I know people bought all those  SUV's -- but Detroit bet the whole farm on that strategy.

They aren't having trouble because of paying high salaries to their factory workers, they are having trouble because they refused to move forward with innovations like Prius, etc.



Unions play a very important role in any economic system and especially in a system based upon capitalism.
Capitalism works quite well but it is not perfect, it has its flaws.
It is prone to greed, subterfuge and the exploitation of labor.

Unions can and should play a significant role in controlling, even eliminating exploitation. 
The problem arises when union management, realizing that their elected positions depend upon
"delivering" for the membership, successfully negotiate contracts that are so inflated that they
end up being one of several things destroying the system.

Auto worker contracts are a prime example. Over the years the contracts included wage benefits, pension benefits, job banks,
job protection, and health care benefits which were so expensive that the automobile business model simply could not
support and fund them in the long run.

Corporate management is just as culpable in ignoring its fiduciary responsibility in agreeing to the egregious terms of the
Union contracts.  Management was also almost criminally short sighted in lobbying Congress to exclude SUV's, Minivans, etc. from
the EPA laws regarding automobiles.  Instead of recognizing these vehicles as what they are, they have been classified as "trucks" and
are, therefore, not subject to gasoline consumption regulations.
While these types of vehicles are/were profitable they did not provide enough profit to fund the Union contracts, pay the obscene management
salaries and perks, AND provide enough capital for research and development and the modernization of factories to build more efficient and
higher quality automobiles.

Many American consumers played right into the hands of this insanity by believing they had to have something similar to
a Sherman Tank to get the kids to school and soccer.

In the final analysis , the Europeans, the Japanese, and the Koreans provided the market with a higher quality, more affordable option
and took over the business.

Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: michaelflanagansf on May 15, 2009, 02:56:27 PM
Many American consumers played right into the hands of this insanity by believing they had to have something similar to a Sherman Tank to get the kids to school and soccer.

In the final analysis , the Europeans, the Japanese, and the Koreans provided the market with a higher quality, more affordable option and took over the business.

And the management of the auto companies didn't pay attention to the market share that was being taken over by the Europeans, Japanese and Koreans and thought that the American public would not be interested in quality over jingoism.  Even when Toyota began commanding a larger share of the American market - topping Chrysler and Ford in percentage (in 2006) the U.S. Auto Industry wasn't interested in retooling to compete (or didn't do it efficiently enough).

And it's not like they didn't have a model to follow from the past....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Iacocca#1979_Auto_Bailout
Title: Re: News & Current Events
Post by: garyd on May 15, 2009, 03:02:52 PM
What do you California voters think of the voting propositions
on the ballot next Tuesday, Propositions 1A - 1F.  I was surprised
that polls show the voters are set to reject ALL of them, even though
the Governor and lawmakers have said we HAVE to do it.


Well, I am not surprised that they might all be rejected.
I am certainly not voting for them.
If passed they simply provide a "legal" rationale for stealing from Paul
to pay Peter along with a "promise" to pay Paul back if and when
Peter ever has th money to do so.

The Gov. is correct, they would "help&quo