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Poll

Which do you rate as 'better'?

The Film
209 (43.8%)
The Book
45 (9.4%)
Equal
198 (41.5%)
Haven't seen/read both yet
25 (5.2%)

Total Members Voted: 437

Author Topic: Film vs. Book -- Which was better?  (Read 292608 times)

Desecra

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Re: Film vs. Book -- Which was better?
« Reply #705 on: November 06, 2008, 01:14:41 AM »
I wasn't keen on the Thanksgiving scene.   I felt it was a bit out of character for Jack (he doesn't seem to seek confrontation) but I was very much in the minority.   I think you are probably right that it was in preparation for him standing up to Ennis in the last scene - but I actually see that as out of character too.   It takes 20 years to build up, and is something he comes out with under pressure.    But most people do see him as being confrontational and thought the Thanksgiving scene was in character.   Maybe it's just a case of looking at it from different angles.    After all, there is maybe a small element of confrontation in him insisting in talking about Ennis to his father. 

When I first saw the film, I felt I was on hold during the times apart, waiting for them to get back together - although maybe that was the point.   I still don't think the film is as 'neat' as the book in that way.   The book sticks to the point more.   But the film does go into other aspects with a bit more depth. 

Offline Sara B

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Re: Film vs. Book -- Which was better?
« Reply #706 on: November 06, 2008, 01:21:03 AM »
Hi Des

Yes, I go along with all that ^^^^. I don't see Jack as confrontational, either - think of his face when he goes back to Aguirre the following year -  but that's why the last scene is so magnificent, when it does all burst out.

Offline chapeaugris

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Re: Film vs. Book -- Which was better?
« Reply #707 on: November 06, 2008, 06:38:21 AM »
I had a sense that they traded the "cold hands and sex" physical contact for the embrace at the end of the confrontation scene because the latter doesn't exist in the book. The way that scene is written feels as stark as the non-response by the fire.

Offline Ellen (tellyouwhat)

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Re: Film vs. Book -- Which was better?
« Reply #708 on: November 06, 2008, 07:42:57 AM »
^^^^

K, what do you imagine the torquing would have been?

I remember when I first saw the movie (and I knew the SS) I still did not know what to expect immediately after the embrace.  It is a segway to the dozy embrace.

I actually imagined (and longed for) the torquing to be more satisfying.  I have accepted now that the movie is brilliant as it was done, that of course the dozy embrace fit perfectly in that scene.  But my longing -- what I was looking for -- was different.


doesn't mean I should always get my way.  If I got my way, Jack would still be alive. 
sometimes I think life is just a rodeo the trick is to ride and make it 'til the bell --john fogerty

Offline chapeaugris

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Re: Film vs. Book -- Which was better?
« Reply #709 on: November 06, 2008, 08:58:54 AM »
^^^^

K, what do you imagine the torquing would have been?

Ennis collapses to his knees. Then SPROING! he's back up! While Jack sits in his truck going WTF?  ;D

Offline Ministering angel

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Re: Film vs. Book -- Which was better?
« Reply #710 on: November 06, 2008, 02:34:13 PM »
^^^^

K, what do you imagine the torquing would have been?

Ennis collapses to his knees. Then SPROING! he's back up! While Jack sits in his truck going WTF?  ;D

But the torquing happens after Ennis has got up and after Jack has got out of his truck. It's something extra.

standingit

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Re: Film vs. Book -- Which was better?
« Reply #711 on: November 24, 2008, 03:44:10 PM »
New topic - not sure where to put it. And I am sure this must have been discussed somewhere on this site.

Why did Jack wait 4 years to find Ennis? What happened that made him reach out. Was it giving up rodeo? Why - when he just had a baby boy? In SS, after they made love in the hotel after reunion scene he says "swear I never thought we were gonna get into this again (pause) - yeah I did. I redlined it all the way from Texas." 

Offline Ministering angel

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Re: Film vs. Book -- Which was better?
« Reply #712 on: November 24, 2008, 06:04:34 PM »
Standingit, the question's been thrown around a bit on such threads as Character Analysis of Jack. It's intriguing. The film makes it to do with Jack's lack of acceptance into the Newsome family.

We don't know if Jack tried unsuccessfully to contact Ennis before. He may have been on the lookout every time he came back up to Wyoming. I tend to feel he had finally got the whole wife-and-child-and-white-picket-fence life and realised that they were nothing when weighed against his love for Ennis.

In the SS he's still rodeoing at the time of the reunion, and still driving his old truck, so he's not benefitting financially from his marriage, it would seem.

Desecra

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Re: Film vs. Book -- Which was better?
« Reply #713 on: November 25, 2008, 12:55:46 AM »
In fact, it looks like he would be paid to leave the marriage. 

It seems to be the DE that keeps bringing him back to Ennis, and I wonder if having a baby in the house reminded him of that.   (Rocking and singing to the baby, etc.).

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Re: Film vs. Book -- Which was better?
« Reply #714 on: November 25, 2008, 03:56:02 AM »
But then you get into an odd situation where Jack, rejected by his father, is willing to reject his own kid for Ennis. It's chilling that he says the kid can't get anything right on the last trip. Jack doesn't really have what it takes to be a good father. Hardly surprising.

But you might be right, Des, about the DE and the birth of his child. It would be nicely matched up with Ennis's coming to understand about Jack when he first becomes a father.

standingit

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Re: Film vs. Book -- Which was better?
« Reply #715 on: November 25, 2008, 03:53:09 PM »
Standingit, the question's been thrown around a bit on such threads as Character Analysis of Jack. It's intriguing. The film makes it to do with Jack's lack of acceptance into the Newsome family.

We don't know if Jack tried unsuccessfully to contact Ennis before. He may have been on the lookout every time he came back up to Wyoming. I tend to feel he had finally got the whole wife-and-child-and-white-picket-fence life and realised that they were nothing when weighed against his love for Ennis.

In the SS he's still rodeoing at the time of the reunion, and still driving his old truck, so he's not benefitting financially from his marriage, it would seem.

I never thought it was because he was benefitting financially. I thought it had something to do with his love (or perceived love) of the rodeo life. He thought that was his ultimate passion. In the motel after the reunion he goes on and on about why he is leaving the rodeo life - the injuries, not being a trained ath-a-leet (I love that, BTW, along with "crushed vertabrates" - you should hear Campbell Scott on the audio - speaking Jack's lines with accent) - thought there was some connection there to why the 4 years. You are right, we never learned if he had looked for opportunities other times he may have been in Wyoming. On that note, I wonder, even with his homophobia, if Ennis ever considered looking for Jack. He found his parents house okay in Lightning Flat upon Jack's death. I wonder because of these references in the SS (he felt as bad as he ever had and it took a long time to wear off...."the first sign of life in all those years"...he wore his best shirt..."you sure as hell look in one piece to me"..."I wrang it out over 100 times thinking about you"...he actually commenced the kissing at the reunion - even though he was the only one at risk with Alma and the family around...). We'll never know of course, but I wonder if Ennis had ever considered it in those 4 years??   

Desecra

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Re: Film vs. Book -- Which was better?
« Reply #716 on: November 26, 2008, 12:26:05 AM »
Surely he must have thought of it, but he says that when he realised what he felt, a year later, it was too late by a long time.   It's a line I've puzzled over and come up with various possible interpretations of what he could have meant, but I'd be interested to know if you have a new one!    He can't just mean that he was married, I think, because (a) he doesn't seem to see the marriage as in competition to Jack - he doesn't think of Jack as an extra-marital affair and (b) he's still married when they meet again, but it's no barrier to them getting together.   What do you think he means?

Offline CANSTANDIT

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Re: Film vs. Book -- Which was better?
« Reply #717 on: November 26, 2008, 07:17:01 AM »
In fact, it looks like he would be paid to leave the marriage. 

It seems to be the DE that keeps bringing him back to Ennis, and I wonder if having a baby in the house reminded him of that.   (Rocking and singing to the baby, etc.).
Ah, good insight. After all, Alma JR brings Ennis to think of Jack..that would be a neat little closure, all tied up in the dozy embrace, ie, rocking, humming, complete love and acceptance, as one would give unconditional love to a child.

It would tend to suggest the dozy embrace as  the peak moment for both men....whereas I've always seen it as something Ennis is somewhat clueless about, with regards to it's impact on Jack.

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Re: Film vs. Book -- Which was better?
« Reply #718 on: November 26, 2008, 07:22:15 AM »
OTOH- ;D

I've seen Jack's continued attempts at rodeo as a way to almost beat his feelings for Ennis out of himself...He goes down to Texas to forget, and just happens upon Lureen. I don't know how calculating he was, so much as opportunisitc-he saw an op, and seized it, which I think, was mostly about being poor and finally getting some relief from that. The baby was the price, and he understood that. I always try to remember that he too, would have had a degree of homophobia, just by cultural osmosis. So he understood the need to stay under cover, and play roles.

I think his feelings just overwhelmed him, and he knew, as has been pointed out, that 'nothing compares to you', as in "Ennis".
« Last Edit: November 26, 2008, 10:16:23 AM by CANSTANDIT »

Offline Ellen (tellyouwhat)

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Re: Film vs. Book -- Which was better?
« Reply #719 on: November 26, 2008, 10:07:51 AM »
welcome to standing it!

so glad you share our passion for the story.

If you would like to look at previous discussions of conversations about the story specifically, it is located in the book threads -- I'll find the link and post it here.

Meanwhile, if the conversation is veering into specific scenes, maybe you have already gone to the threads in scenes and elements for discussion.

Lots of good details to work out.  ;)


ETA:  Link to discussion of SHORT STORY ONLY (archived discussion, but lots of questions//answers)
« Last Edit: November 26, 2008, 10:18:27 AM by tellyouwhat »
sometimes I think life is just a rodeo the trick is to ride and make it 'til the bell --john fogerty