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Author Topic: At Jack's Parents  (Read 360471 times)

Offline janiebbmart

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Re: At Jack's Parents
« Reply #3240 on: September 04, 2014, 12:34:19 PM »
It could have that kind of double meaning.  But IMO "too goddamn special" for the family plot doesn't quite fit even a veiled reference to Jack's sexuality; not in the early 1980s and not from someone in that generation.  And I don't usually like mixing the film and s/s (apples and oranges to a great extent), but in the s/s that remark is followed up very shortly by a reference to "I can't get no help out here" and to Jack's never-carried-through talk about bringing Ennis, and later someone else, up to the ranch.  That, and the reference to Jack's mother ignoring his remarks (suggesting that she's heard them several times before) could imply family issues related to social class and abandonment, possibly with sources going back to before Jack was born.  Parents, whether loving or abusive, bring their own issues to parenthood whether they acknowledge it or not.

Interesting take on Old Man Twist's role in bringing his son and Ennis together.   :)

I have to disagree with you here and the evidence I'd use for that is this. Another person of John Twist's age, social class and occupation knew all too well what homosexuality meant as far back as 1959 when he took his nine year old son to witness the aftermath of a homophobic murder in which he may well have been implicated...Ennis' father. So  if Del Mar had the knowledge, why not Twist? It's obvious that Del Mar wasn't the only one to remark on Rich and Earl as a couple because apparently they were well known in the town and the murder must have been planned between several individuals. In other words ranchers of that generation were very well aware. Why would Twist be the exception?

 I don't deny that he had other issues to do with Jack's desertion of the ranch and the implications of that but I believe that an awareness of Jack's sexuality comes into the mix as well.

Offline gb-dc

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Re: At Jack's Parents
« Reply #3241 on: September 05, 2014, 03:11:13 PM »
Thanks for the replies. I miss how interesting the analysis can get around here.

I don't at all disagree with Twist, Sr.'s innuendo; he definitely knew what Jack was, who Ennis was, what Brokeback meant to them, and was unafraid to make known his digust for it all.

I went back to the article again to have a re-read. I also had a quick peek at the s/s to see the references, of which there are two for family plot, the second being in isolation of any reference to Brokeback. However, since the article tends to follow the story sequentially, I'm pretty sure the first mention of the family plot is the one to which the author is referring. Had it been the second one, the author's argument might hold more water, but the first one really doesn't lend itself to his assertion.

Nonetheless, interesting point to ponder.
The injury we do and the one we suffer are not weighed in the same scales.  ~Aesop

Offline gb-dc

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Re: At Jack's Parents
« Reply #3242 on: September 05, 2014, 03:17:56 PM »

 Good luck with your grad school application and best wishes.


Thanks Janie. As, um, a more mature man, it's been quite some time since I've had to do any academic writing. So, it's been difficult getting the ole brain to fire on all cylinders.
The injury we do and the one we suffer are not weighed in the same scales.  ~Aesop

Offline Marge_Innavera

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Re: At Jack's Parents
« Reply #3243 on: September 06, 2014, 02:36:09 PM »
I have to disagree with you here and the evidence I'd use for that is this. Another person of John Twist's age, social class and occupation knew all too well what homosexuality meant as far back as 1959 when he took his nine year old son to witness the aftermath of a homophobic murder in which he may well have been implicated...Ennis' father. So  if Del Mar had the knowledge, why not Twist?

Not denying that but IMO "too goddam special" doesn't fit.  I don't recall "special" having a sarcastic double meaning in the early 1980s; Old Man Twist probably did know about Jack's sexuality but I doubt very seriously he'd express it with that particular turn of phrase.  If people were using the word "special" in that kind of context then (I honestly don't remember), it's not likely that people of that generation would use it.  In the context of the whole scene, I've consistently gotten the impression that Jack's marrying a rich woman, moving to Texas and probably not being around as much created more resentment in an abandoned-the-old-neighborhood context.  If this was a ranch Twist had put years into and he saw it declining in his elder years, he would have regarded his only son as having abandoned the family.  Jack's sexuality would have fueled the fire but I don't think that was the reference at that point.

Of course, we all need to remember that we're discussing the back stories of fictional characters.   :)
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Offline janiebbmart

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Re: At Jack's Parents
« Reply #3244 on: September 07, 2014, 04:47:14 AM »
Not denying that but IMO "too goddam special" doesn't fit.  I don't recall "special" having a sarcastic double meaning in the early 1980s; Old Man Twist probably did know about Jack's sexuality but I doubt very seriously he'd express it with that particular turn of phrase.  If people were using the word "special" in that kind of context then (I honestly don't remember), it's not likely that people of that generation would use it.  In the context of the whole scene, I've consistently gotten the impression that Jack's marrying a rich woman, moving to Texas and probably not being around as much created more resentment in an abandoned-the-old-neighborhood context.  If this was a ranch Twist had put years into and he saw it declining in his elder years, he would have regarded his only son as having abandoned the family.  Jack's sexuality would have fueled the fire but I don't think that was the reference at that point.

Of course, we all need to remember that we're discussing the back stories of fictional characters.   :)

I take your point about the semantics concerning "special". I wouldn't know if it was in current use in the early eighties.
 I think we're basically agreed that there was a whole raft of resentments between Jack and Twist Sr, not least Jack's tactless mention of bringing Ennis up to lick the ranch into shape. I've always thought that must have been like waving a red rag in front of a bull.

Quote
Of course, we all need to remember that we're discussing the back stories of fictional characters.   :)

  That might be heresy.  :D




Offline janiebbmart

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Re: At Jack's Parents
« Reply #3245 on: September 08, 2014, 09:19:16 AM »
Thanks Janie. As, um, a more mature man, it's been quite some time since I've had to do any academic writing. So, it's been difficult getting the ole brain to fire on all cylinders.

I'm sure you'll manage just fine.  ;D

Offline janiebbmart

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Re: At Jack's Parents
« Reply #3246 on: September 08, 2014, 09:22:47 AM »
Thanks for the replies. I miss how interesting the analysis can get around here.

I don't at all disagree with Twist, Sr.'s innuendo; he definitely knew what Jack was, who Ennis was, what Brokeback meant to them, and was unafraid to make known his digust for it all.

I went back to the article again to have a re-read. I also had a quick peek at the s/s to see the references, of which there are two for family plot, the second being in isolation of any reference to Brokeback. However, since the article tends to follow the story sequentially, I'm pretty sure the first mention of the family plot is the one to which the author is referring. Had it been the second one, the author's argument might hold more water, but the first one really doesn't lend itself to his assertion.

Nonetheless, interesting point to ponder.

I'm with you on those assumptions.

Btw are you the person who once left a copy of my drawing of Heath outside his apartment after he died? Your handle rings a bell.  ;)

Janie

Offline B.W.

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Re: At Jack's Parents
« Reply #3247 on: January 31, 2015, 01:44:43 PM »
I think that Mr. Twist knew Jack was gay and probably knew that the time Jack spent on Brokeback Mountain with Ennis was perhaps the happiest time of his life.  I did think that it was sad when Mr. Twist told Ennis that Jack's ashes would be buried in the family plot.  Mrs. Twist seemed more sympathetic towards Ennis, especially since she let him take the two shirts away with him.  I think it is just gut-wrenching when Ennis first discovers the shirts in Jack's closet.  Ennis had to have been crushed to see his shirt that was wrapped in Jack's shirt, the shirt that he thought he had left behind, probably not knowing that Jack had taken it, most likely to remember Ennis by, probably thinking that he would see him again after they left Brokeback Mountain after the summer had ended, when they first met.  I think that when Ennis found those shirts, that may have been the moment when Ennis had realized what he had lost.  His internalized feelings of self-hatred prevented him from living the rest of his life with the man that he loved.  I don't believe that Jack ever stopped loving Ennis.  I think that he was just upset with Ennis for letting his fear prevent him from living his life the way that he wanted.  I don't think that Jack enjoyed cheating on Ennis at all.  I imagine that deep down, Jack had to have felt guilty about cheating on Ennis and probably regretted his actions, even if he didn't openly show his feelings of guilt and regret when Ennis asked him if he had been in Mexico. I think that Ennis really did want to spend the rest of his life with Jack, it just seems to me that his internalized, self-hated, fear and paranoia wouldn't let him do that.  I'm sure that the memories that Ennis would had of Jack would have brought him the comfort that he needed to move on with his life. That's just my own personal view on this subject.