The Ultimate Brokeback Forum

Author Topic: MTF? FTM? WTF? Everything you wanted to know about Transgender but were afraid  (Read 113432 times)

B73

  • Guest
Re: MTF? FTM? WTF? Everything you ever wanted to know about Transgender but were
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2006, 04:45:33 PM »
So to sum up, I have a gal's figure and face but a boy's soul.  And while at one point I was a bit confused, now I feel that it just is the way it is--and that gender identity, like sexuality, is a fluid thing.  Only problem is that while I can do the girly thing all right, I do wish I was a guy a lot a lot.


So B73 - have you ever considered living as a guy?  Making the outside match the inside?

I have considered it.  But there's a problem--namely my husband, who probably wouldn't be too pleased about it.  Also I think I'd make a cute boy, but I have these massive hipbones which no amount of hormones would whittle away.... :D :D :D  But yeah, I've thought about it.  It's a very scary thing though, especially if you want to be not only a FTM but one who wants to be a gay man!  You know? 

Offline jackfingtwist

  • Help I'm Being Possessed by Jack Twist
  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 2181
  • Straight Boy Slashers - we do exist
    • Jack fucking Twist's drabbles
Re: MTF? FTM? WTF? Everything you ever wanted to know about Transgender but were
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2006, 04:51:57 PM »
So to sum up, I have a gal's figure and face but a boy's soul.  And while at one point I was a bit confused, now I feel that it just is the way it is--and that gender identity, like sexuality, is a fluid thing.  Only problem is that while I can do the girly thing all right, I do wish I was a guy a lot a lot.


So B73 - have you ever considered living as a guy?  Making the outside match the inside?

I have considered it.  But there's a problem--namely my husband, who probably wouldn't be too pleased about it.  Also I think I'd make a cute boy, but I have these massive hipbones which no amount of hormones would whittle away.... :D :D :D  But yeah, I've thought about it.  It's a very scary thing though, especially if you want to be not only a FTM but one who wants to be a gay man!  You know? 

This happens more often than you'd think. I know I saw a documentary on a doctor who was a mtf  transsexual and she ended up falling in love with a woman and being a lesbian. There was another who fell in love with another mtf transexual. Its not uncommon in the slightest.
http://jack-fing-twist.livejournal.com/ - Max's jack drabbles

"I'm here with my tribe,
This family's my wealth
And I would die with them
Before I'd live by myself." S. Bear Bergman

"Its half biology and half corrective surgery gone wrong," Half Jack, Dresden Dolls

Offline planetgal471

  • Mistress of Metaphor
  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 10813
  • Race the Burning Sun
    • The Sacred Realm
Re: MTF? FTM? WTF? Everything you ever wanted to know about Transgender but w
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2006, 06:08:34 PM »
I have considered it.  But there's a problem--namely my husband, who probably wouldn't be too pleased about it.  Also I think I'd make a cute boy, but I have these massive hipbones which no amount of hormones would whittle away.... :D :D :D  But yeah, I've thought about it.  It's a very scary thing though, especially if you want to be not only a FTM but one who wants to be a gay man!  You know? 

Maggie-- are you and I the same person? Maybe I have another personality who is doing all my writing when I think I have "migraines"?

When I was little I used to tell my mom I wanted to grow up to be a gay man *giggles* I really did. And I always went by Jess or Jessie growing up. It wasn't until I high school people started celling me Jessica, and it actally came me several very conscious years to come to terms with the name. I like it now, but it wasn't an overnight thing. I would be a Jess or Jesse for sure.
"Speak what you think today in words as hard as cannonballs and tomorrow speak what tomorrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said today." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self Reliance

Offline jackfingtwist

  • Help I'm Being Possessed by Jack Twist
  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 2181
  • Straight Boy Slashers - we do exist
    • Jack fucking Twist's drabbles
Re: MTF? FTM? WTF? Everything you ever wanted to know about Transgender but w
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2006, 06:42:12 PM »


Maggie-- are you and I the same person? Maybe I have another personality who is doing all my writing when I think I have "migraines"?

When I was little I used to tell my mom I wanted to grow up to be a gay man *giggles* I really did. And I always went by Jess or Jessie growing up. It wasn't until I high school people started celling me Jessica, and it actally came me several very conscious years to come to terms with the name. I like it now, but it wasn't an overnight thing. I would be a Jess or Jesse for sure.

fortunately I was always a Max, since I was little sooo
http://jack-fing-twist.livejournal.com/ - Max's jack drabbles

"I'm here with my tribe,
This family's my wealth
And I would die with them
Before I'd live by myself." S. Bear Bergman

"Its half biology and half corrective surgery gone wrong," Half Jack, Dresden Dolls

Offline Sid401k

  • Slash Archivist
  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 4111
  • Can't believe I left my damn heart up there...
    • Sid's Place (LJ)
Re: MTF? FTM? WTF? Everything you ever wanted to know about Transgender but w
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2006, 12:17:38 AM »
There was a period of time in my late teens and early twenties when I wondered whether or not I should actually consider gender reassignment - and considered myself quite androgynous.  And what you say about the difference between wishing and believing is what it came down to for me.  I thought it would be simplier to be female, but didn't really believe I was female at my core.
Well, a lot of people would agree that it's simpler to be a straight female than a gay male.  (Although I'm sure it wouldn't be unanimous!)  The problem is, that wasn't the choice you were facing.  You were facing the choice of MTF transsexual vs. gay male.  And I think that gay male is simpler.  I don't know how strong gender identity is in other people.  If yours was flexible, you could have made it work, although it sure wouldn't have been a simpler life!  On the other hand, if your gender identity was strongly male, you would have wound up in the same position we FTMs are in our early lives, with the added bonus of knowing you had only yourself to blame!  ;D

Offline Sid401k

  • Slash Archivist
  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 4111
  • Can't believe I left my damn heart up there...
    • Sid's Place (LJ)
Re: MTF? FTM? WTF? Everything you ever wanted to know about Transgender but were
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2006, 12:22:52 AM »
I have a question;
When did you know that you were transsexual?  Was it something that was crystal clear in your mind from an early age or was it a gradual realization?
Both.  I can trace my knowledge back to age 7, when I was determined to learn (someday) how to pee standing up, and when I grew up I was going to dress as a man and join the army and go to South America and have a very close buddy that I'd do everything with.  Looking back, I can remember quite a few times in my life when I knew without doubt exactly what I was.  But those were short periods of time, interspersed with long periods of denial, when I just felt that if I followed all the rules, then everything would eventually work out for me--somehow.

Offline Sid401k

  • Slash Archivist
  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 4111
  • Can't believe I left my damn heart up there...
    • Sid's Place (LJ)
Re: MTF? FTM? WTF? Everything you ever wanted to know about Transgender but were
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2006, 12:44:19 AM »
Hmm -- looks like we will keep you busy, Sid!

No kidding!  I'm looking forward to the time (next week, maybe?) when there will be lots of other TGs to share their experiences with you.  Because although we all have the ont thing in common, we can have very different viewpoints, experiences, philosophies, goals, etc.

Your classmate may possibly have come to a conclusion that I came to.  It's who I am.  Back when I first came out, I did a lot of thinking about this.  And I realized that no matter how far I went down the reassignment road (even unto science fiction lengths), I was always going to have 30 years of memories that were just not appropriate to an ordinary man.  So that was when I decided that since I couldn't ever feel like a real woman, and I could never be universally considered a real man, that I had better set my sights on being a real transsexual.

Quote
My next observation ... was the irony that this person chose to become a middle-aged woman, when the reality is that being a middle-aged woman in the US is one of the last things anyone would choose, including most middle-aged women.  At times I feel like I would rather be almost anything else but a middle-aged woman.

She would feel that she was already a middle-aged woman.  She would probably have preferred to be a man.  But she tried for years, and it didn't work, so she finally said:  "Okay, I can't get the mind to match the body.  Now I'll see what I can do to make the body match the mind."  With regard to relationships, it's about quality.  Just about anybody can get into a relationship at any time, if they are willing to set their sights low enough.  But imagine yourself in a relationship with someone who is continually praising the things you dislike most about yourself--the things that you feel "aren't really you."  He or she goes on and on about how he or she loves you because of things you'd give anything to be rid of.  ("Oh, darling, that big hairy wart on your nose is sooooo sexy!"  "I just adore the way you scream at the kids!")  It would drive you nuts!  You'd want someone who loved the Real You--the best of you.

Offline AHappyMan

  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 4295
Re: MTF? FTM? WTF? Everything you ever wanted to know about Transgender but w
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2006, 12:48:54 AM »
This thread is great! Thanks for all the honest posts.

Sid, forgive my prying (and tell me to get stuffed if appropriate) but have you had
surgery? And are you sexually attracted to other men?

The scope of human sexuality and gender is amazing.

Rick

Offline Sid401k

  • Slash Archivist
  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 4111
  • Can't believe I left my damn heart up there...
    • Sid's Place (LJ)
Re: MTF? FTM? WTF? Everything you ever wanted to know about Transgender but were
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2006, 12:50:32 AM »
Intersexuality is so involved, Im sure you know. Its basically a "glitch" in the DNA system. So when I was born, I was obviously one biological gender. It wasnt until I hit puberty that anything happened. some intersexed people dont know they're intersexed until they are middle aged! There is no way to explain to people what intersexed is because it is different for most all who have it, Most dont even identify as it.
Intersex is another term that covers a lot of varied situations.  I'm sorry I wasn't more complete, but I was just trying to get up a "quick and dirty" explanation in one sentence.  When the possiblity of a transgender thread came up, I wanted very much for it to include intersex people, specifically.  So I'm really glad of your early response.  I hope you'll stop by frequently, and share your knowledge and insights.

Offline Sid401k

  • Slash Archivist
  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 4111
  • Can't believe I left my damn heart up there...
    • Sid's Place (LJ)
Re: MTF? FTM? WTF? Everything you ever wanted to know about Transgender but were
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2006, 12:54:01 AM »
the confusion thing is also interesting. that sounds like a very useful and descriptive word, but i'm curious: do some in those communities balk at that as fighting words?
I hope not.  That was another one of my "quick and dirty" categories.

Offline michaelflanagansf

  • Forum Librarian and buckle bunny
  • Team Cullen
  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 25020
Re: MTF? FTM? WTF? Everything you ever wanted to know about Transgender but w
« Reply #25 on: September 07, 2006, 01:07:17 AM »
There was a period of time in my late teens and early twenties when I wondered whether or not I should actually consider gender reassignment - and considered myself quite androgynous.  And what you say about the difference between wishing and believing is what it came down to for me.  I thought it would be simplier to be female, but didn't really believe I was female at my core.

Well, a lot of people would agree that it's simpler to be a straight female than a gay male.  (Although I'm sure it wouldn't be unanimous!)  The problem is, that wasn't the choice you were facing.  You were facing the choice of MTF transsexual vs. gay male.  And I think that gay male is simpler.  I don't know how strong gender identity is in other people.  If yours was flexible, you could have made it work, although it sure wouldn't have been a simpler life!  On the other hand, if your gender identity was strongly male, you would have wound up in the same position we FTMs are in our early lives, with the added bonus of knowing you had only yourself to blame!  ;D

This is a very good point - and probably not one I would have grasped at the time.  However, I'm pretty sure consciousness about being transgendered has shifted a bit since then - at that time I would probably have tried to pass as being female - or so I thought.  I actually did fool around with clothing and makeup at the time but I must admit looking back at it that it was not wholehearted by any means.

And sadly, I do know someone who is in the latter situation you describe - had surgery and regrets it.
I do my thing, & you do your thing. I am not in this world to live up to your expectations, and you are not in this world to live up to mine. You are you and I am I, and if by chance we find each other - it is beautiful. If not it can't be helped.

Fritz Perls - A Gestalt Prayer

Offline Sid401k

  • Slash Archivist
  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 4111
  • Can't believe I left my damn heart up there...
    • Sid's Place (LJ)
Re: MTF? FTM? WTF? Everything you ever wanted to know about Transgender but were
« Reply #26 on: September 07, 2006, 01:15:28 AM »
Hi, there, planetgal471/Jesse!  Great to see you over here!

So you're biologically female, have an internal sense of yourself as male, are married to a man, and like to dress up occasionally.  Dr. Sid hereby diagnoses you as gay or bi FTM transvestite.  (I'll admit to occasional urges to re-cross-dress, myself.)

Kidding aside, in your post you say:
Quote
But mostly I just wish I could wave a magic wand and the world would see me just exactly how I see myself. It's the disparity that hurts at the end of the day, in a frustration that makes you realize this is more than changing a hair color or a wardrobe.
Oh, yes, I know those feelings well.  And your situation--unlike a TV melodrama--is not going to resolve itself in an hour with all ends tied up neatly and all the good folks living happily ever after and only the villains getting hurt.

I like your analogy of changing a hair color.  Not only is it so much more difficult than that, it's also so much more important.

Keep visiting, and keep posting!  We need your elegant prose.

Offline Sid401k

  • Slash Archivist
  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 4111
  • Can't believe I left my damn heart up there...
    • Sid's Place (LJ)
Re: MTF? FTM? WTF? Everything you ever wanted to know about Transgender but were
« Reply #27 on: September 07, 2006, 01:27:00 AM »
And hello to you, B73/Jack!  All my slash friends seem to be following me to this thread!

It's a very scary thing though, especially if you want to be not only a FTM but one who wants to be a gay man!  You know? 
I do know.  Back in 1979, shortly after I came out, several people asked me, "Why can't you just be a bisexual woman?"  And the only answer I had for them was, "Because I'm not."  And there were those who would say, "You want to be a gay man?  Are you nuts?"  What could I answer?  What I wanted was to be the straight woman that everybody thought I should be--to be rid of the foolish notion that my mother and my father and my teachers and my doctors and my own damn MIRROR were wrong when they said I was female.  Yes, scary is the word all right.

Offline planetgal471

  • Mistress of Metaphor
  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 10813
  • Race the Burning Sun
    • The Sacred Realm
Re: MTF? FTM? WTF? Everything you ever wanted to know about Transgender but w
« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2006, 01:36:10 AM »
I like your analogy of changing a hair color.  Not only is it so much more difficult than that, it's also so much more important.

Heh. When I first moved away from home and started to explore outside the vision of myself assigned me by having kept the same company for 20 years, I felt something was terribly wrong, and dyed all my hair hot pink after my favorite gay anime character. Only after I had a head of hot pink hair did I realize it wasn't his hair I was envying, and now people just saw me as a chick with a funny hair color. So then I started totally changing my wardrobe. Clothes became baggier, darker, legs wider, started gaining weight, losing weight, gaining it again, wearing different jewely, wearing no jewelry. Nothing fit. Nothing even helped at the end of the day (except maybe baggy clothes? Just hide me altogether, give me a blank canvas?).

And I know what you mean about being complimented for something you don't like. My husband is an angel and knows all my women-parts are off-limits, for discussion or man-handling. The tradeoff is that he watches porn, but maybe I don't even care. I should be glad I'm not enough of a woman for him. And I am. I just wish I could be enough of a man, or that a man was what he really wanted.

And I also agree with you on realizing you'll always be FTM. I sort of cherish my childhood as a little 'girl'. Everything I've been has made me who I am, and I like the end product (most days) so I want to embrace that past, regardless of where I end up in the future.
"Speak what you think today in words as hard as cannonballs and tomorrow speak what tomorrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said today." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self Reliance

elle_ann

  • Guest
Re: MTF? FTM? WTF? Everything you ever wanted to know about Transgender but w
« Reply #29 on: September 07, 2006, 03:55:28 AM »
And hello to you, B73/Jack!  All my slash friends seem to be following me to this thread!


Hey to you too - sorry, Three! Sid, Jess, Mag. I just saw this thread pimped on the front page of the Forum and came over (very hesitantly) to read.

Now scared out of my mind and going back to start again, thanks be that this thread is only two pages long to date.  ;D

I'm one of those dreaded *middle-aged women* who got hooked on slash a while back and have been trying ever since to figure the whole damn thing out psychologically. Why do I yearn to BE those guys? Why do I dislike being me? Is it just my middle-aged body I dislike? Is it that I feel so unfeminine that I feel no man would find me attractive? (Been divorced and single for about ten years now ..) Why was it that I started wishing I was the one thing I could never be - a gay man? Is it just the slash thing? What, what, what?? WTF, in fact?  ??? ??? ???

Ack!! Almost too afraid to post this, but then I think of all the people whose lives have been changed by BBM and so, what the heck - if we can't be honest here, where can we be? It's all about talking and finding out,  isn't it? Maybe it'll all come to nothing, but at least I'll have explored it a bit further .... where's the smiley icon for 'Freaked Out Over Here!!!'  :-[