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Author Topic: MTF? FTM? WTF? Everything you wanted to know about Transgender but were afraid  (Read 112796 times)

Offline Ellen (tellyouwhat)

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Re: MTF? FTM? WTF? Everything you ever wanted to know about Transgender but w
« Reply #45 on: September 07, 2006, 10:48:19 AM »
And hello to you, B73/Jack!  All my slash friends seem to be following me to this thread!


Hey to you too - sorry, Three! Sid, Jess, Mag. I just saw this thread pimped on the front page of the Forum and came over (very hesitantly) to read.

Now scared out of my mind and going back to start again, thanks be that this thread is only two pages long to date.  ;D

I'm one of those dreaded *middle-aged women* who got hooked on slash a while back and have been trying ever since to figure the whole damn thing out psychologically. Why do I yearn to BE those guys? Why do I dislike being me? Is it just my middle-aged body I dislike? Is it that I feel so unfeminine that I feel no man would find me attractive? (Been divorced and single for about ten years now ..) Why was it that I started wishing I was the one thing I could never be - a gay man? Is it just the slash thing? What, what, what?? WTF, in fact?  ??? ??? ???

Ack!! Almost too afraid to post this, but then I think of all the people whose lives have been changed by BBM and so, what the heck - if we can't be honest here, where can we be? It's all about talking and finding out,  isn't it? Maybe it'll all come to nothing, but at least I'll have explored it a bit further .... where's the smiley icon for 'Freaked Out Over Here!!!'  :-[

Hi elle ann -

I'm the one who brought up the plight of middle aged women, so I feel compelled to come in and say I hope this doesn't lead to more bashing of that group - perhaps we can all politely agree we'd rather not be that, but a significant number in our population, and our forum population, are.  This is the TG thread and I don't want to get OT, but there are some issues we share, such as:

feeling like we aren't the person in the mirror

wishing people would treat us for ourselves (in many cases brilliant, funny, loving sexual beings) instead of school marms

being "dissed" by society in general.

OK that is my soap box moment.  I guess I find it interesting that the "mirror" issue is so similar.  Also, I think part of the phenomenon of this forum is that we do get to be ourselves and post the truth about ourselves, without anyone judging us or pigeonholing us first based on our looks or any other sign of status.  Here, a middle-aged woman can have a school girl crush on Jake or feel all the heartbreak of the BBM story without anyone wondering if she is crazy or, god forbid, acting her age!

Sid, your answer about my acquaintance feeling as if s/he "already is" a middle aged woman was very helpful to my understanding.  thanks!
sometimes I think life is just a rodeo the trick is to ride and make it 'til the bell --john fogerty

elle_ann

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Re: MTF? FTM? WTF? Everything you wanted to know about Transgender but were afra
« Reply #46 on: September 07, 2006, 10:50:09 AM »
Im going out on a limb here, talking about this stuff, becuase I havent talked about it to anyone, except three people in my entire life, and two of them are on the forum, and the response I got from them was incredible, so I am going to put myself out there and close my eyes and hope for the best.


Max. Amazingly honest post. I have no words of wisdom to offer you, but support and hugs always ... I'm also feeling my way forward through territory that feels really foreign to me.

See you on the journey.  ;)

Offline Dave Cullen

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Um Ive heard it both ways. Some people like transgendered, others say that they arent past tense, they are transgender. I dunno, if its linguistically supposed to be a certin way but Im pretty sure its just preference.

thanks. transgender sounds somehow incomplete to me, though i can't place why. (sort of like when people leave the ly off a lot of adverb--man, does that that hurt my ears. (as in, "it went bad." or Apple's abomination, "think different." ugh.) i have to just add it for them in my head.

i wonder if i can get over that with this one. any linguist out there who can sort it out?

and how do most Ts feel about tranny? or trans? it is a freaking long word. hard to get an american to pronounce more than two syllables. maybe that's why some people dropped the ed in the first place--one less syllable.

Offline Dave Cullen

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Re: MTF? FTM? WTF? Everything you ever wanted to know about Transgender but w
« Reply #48 on: September 07, 2006, 10:56:24 AM »
Hey to you too - sorry, Three! Sid, Jess, Mag. I just saw this thread pimped on the front page of the Forum and came over (very hesitantly) to read.

Now scared out of my mind and going back to start again, thanks be that this thread is only two pages long to date.  ;D

I'm one of those dreaded *middle-aged women* who got hooked on slash a while back and have been trying ever since to figure the whole damn thing out psychologically. Why do I yearn to BE those guys? Why do I dislike being me? Is it just my middle-aged body I dislike? Is it that I feel so unfeminine that I feel no man would find me attractive? (Been divorced and single for about ten years now ..) Why was it that I started wishing I was the one thing I could never be - a gay man? Is it just the slash thing? What, what, what?? WTF, in fact?  ??? ??? ???

Ack!! Almost too afraid to post this, but then I think of all the people whose lives have been changed by BBM and so, what the heck - if we can't be honest here, where can we be? It's all about talking and finding out,  isn't it? Maybe it'll all come to nothing, but at least I'll have explored it a bit further .... where's the smiley icon for 'Freaked Out Over Here!!!'  :-[

Hi elle ann -

I'm the one who brought up the plight of middle aged women, so I feel compelled to come in and say I hope this doesn't lead to more bashing of that group - perhaps we can all politely agree we'd rather not be that, but a significant number in our population, and our forum population, are.  This is the TG thread and I don't want to get OT, but there are some issues we share, such as:

feeling like we aren't the person in the mirror

wishing people would treat us for ourselves (in many cases brilliant, funny, loving sexual beings) instead of school marms

being "dissed" by society in general.

OK that is my soap box moment.  I guess I find it interesting that the "mirror" issue is so similar.  Also, I think part of the phenomenon of this forum is that we do get to be ourselves and post the truth about ourselves, without anyone judging us or pigeonholing us first based on our looks or any other sign of status.  Here, a middle-aged woman can have a school girl crush on Jake or feel all the heartbreak of the BBM story without anyone wondering if she is crazy or, god forbid, acting her age!

Sid, your answer about my acquaintance feeling as if s/he "already is" a middle aged woman was very helpful to my understanding.  thanks!

wow, this is really interesting. it never occurred to me that a class of middle aged straight women would have so much in common with transgendereds.

it does open the wider question of why so many of us are unhappy with who/what we are, and desperately want to be someone else.

(not that i'm putting myself in that category, for once. though i do wish i could see someone younger in the mirror these days, and am working on getting back down toward that 10-12% body fat, but i am happy to see a man there, and couldn't care less that he's a gayboy.)

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Good God Almighty if there were no middle-aged women in the world where would a middle-aged fag/queer/homo/??? like me find his best friends and confidantes.  I don't want to be one but I'm sure glad they exist.  Can't help you with the feeling/not feeling sexy part.  That's what straight men are for (if nothing else, LOL).

elle_ann

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Re: MTF? FTM? WTF? Everything you ever wanted to know about Transgender but w
« Reply #50 on: September 07, 2006, 10:58:52 AM »


I'm the one who brought up the plight of middle aged women, so I feel compelled to come in and say I hope this doesn't lead to more bashing of that group - perhaps we can all politely agree we'd rather not be that, but a significant number in our population, and our forum population, are.  This is the TG thread and I don't want to get OT, but there are some issues we share, such as:

feeling like we aren't the person in the mirror

wishing people would treat us for ourselves (in many cases brilliant, funny, loving sexual beings) instead of school marms

being "dissed" by society in general.

OK that is my soap box moment.  I guess I find it interesting that the "mirror" issue is so similar.  Also, I think part of the phenomenon of this forum is that we do get to be ourselves and post the truth about ourselves, without anyone judging us or pigeonholing us first based on our looks or any other sign of status.  Here, a middle-aged woman can have a school girl crush on Jake or feel all the heartbreak of the BBM story without anyone wondering if she is crazy or, god forbid, acting her age!


Hi - totally agree! Bashing of any kind is so counter-productive and trivializes what are intensely real feelings, no matter what the root cause of those feelings may be. I'm here to explore, ask, talk, share, learn and hopefully grow along with the rest of you.  :)

Offline jackfingtwist

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Re: MTF? FTM? WTF? Everything you wanted to know about Transgender but were afra
« Reply #51 on: September 07, 2006, 11:21:36 AM »
Im going out on a limb here, talking about this stuff, becuase I havent talked about it to anyone, except three people in my entire life, and two of them are on the forum, and the response I got from them was incredible, so I am going to put myself out there and close my eyes and hope for the best.


Max. Amazingly honest post. I have no words of wisdom to offer you, but support and hugs always ... I'm also feeling my way forward through territory that feels really foreign to me.

See you on the journey.  ;)

Thank you I really appreciate your feedback. Its tough for me, so people being compassionate is.....well foreign to me.
http://jack-fing-twist.livejournal.com/ - Max's jack drabbles

"I'm here with my tribe,
This family's my wealth
And I would die with them
Before I'd live by myself." S. Bear Bergman

"Its half biology and half corrective surgery gone wrong," Half Jack, Dresden Dolls

Offline Ellen (tellyouwhat)

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Good God Almighty if there were no middle-aged women in the world where would a middle-aged fag/queer/homo/??? like me find his best friends and confidantes.  I don't want to be one but I'm sure glad they exist.  Can't help you with the feeling/not feeling sexy part.  That's what straight men are for (if nothing else, LOL).

WHOA don't misunderstand me "we"  (strength in numbers, ha ha) DO feel sexy, it is that so many people don't see us that way.  It's the pygmalion effect.

Actually, I am very lucky, I am in a good marriage!  I know how lucky I am!  Also, one more little tidbit -- about five years ago I spent some time in Ireland and noticed immediately that I felt like part of the society again.  All people, even men young and old, would strike up conversations with me as if I suddenly had a right to be standing there.  They were not flirting, they were just interacting as human beings.  I don't know if this is only Ireland or includes the rest of Europe, I suspect it may.  We are so divided by our "market segments" here in the US.  But this is the TG thread!

You know, if you opened a thread called "middle aged women" nobody would go there!  I will try and desist right now and let the TGs take over.
sometimes I think life is just a rodeo the trick is to ride and make it 'til the bell --john fogerty

Offline Desecra

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Re: MTF? FTM? WTF? Everything you ever wanted to know about Transgender but w
« Reply #53 on: September 07, 2006, 12:02:53 PM »
Since I could remember, I was male in my dreams. I never questioned that.

Just picking up on this one tiny piece of your fascinating post, because it rang a bell with me.  I'm frequently male in dreams and I HAVE questioned it.  It seemed to me that I grew up seeing men everywhere, as the main characters in films, etc.  As I'm often not 'me' in dreams anyway, it doesn't seem odd that I'd sometimes be a man or a boy.  In real life, I'm clearly female - not girly, but fairly feminine, so for me, personally, it doesn't seem to have significance.   Does everybody frequently gender switch in dreams, do you think?  And if not, what does it mean, if anything?
Unless, I say otherwise, I'm probably talking about the short story, not the movie. :)

Offline jackfingtwist

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its tough because I think everyone is affected by gender roles, I mean, gender isnt always cut and dry, it rarely is. So yes I think that eeryone at some point has some sort of desire concious or subconcious to be the other sex for whatecer personal reason, and dreams just show our concioius what our subconcious is thinking.
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Offline estefue

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Wow!  You guys have really started a lively and informative discussion.  At Heidi's request I added some information in the initial post here:

 http://davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=12710.msg451911#msg451911

Offline planetgal471

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Re: MTF? FTM? WTF? Everything you ever wanted to know about Transgender but w
« Reply #56 on: September 07, 2006, 12:51:55 PM »
"You want to be a gay man?  Are you nuts?"  What could I answer?  What I wanted was to be the straight woman that everybody thought I should be--to be rid of the foolish notion that my mother and my father and my teachers and my doctors and my own damn MIRROR were wrong when they said I was female.  Yes, scary is the word all right.

omg yes. That's what I want too, more than anything.
"Speak what you think today in words as hard as cannonballs and tomorrow speak what tomorrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said today." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self Reliance

Offline planetgal471

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Re: MTF? FTM? WTF? Everything you wanted to know about Transgender but were afra
« Reply #57 on: September 07, 2006, 12:55:53 PM »
Yeah, I think I'm what Sid describes as gender-confused.  I WISH I were a guy, but it's not something like "Oh they made a mistake gotta fix itNOW" thing.  I can live with being  female.  I guess.   ;D ;)

Whereas I'm not convinced  :-\
"Speak what you think today in words as hard as cannonballs and tomorrow speak what tomorrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said today." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self Reliance

Offline planetgal471

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Re: MTF? FTM? WTF? Everything you wanted to know about Transgender but were afra
« Reply #58 on: September 07, 2006, 01:01:03 PM »
Im going out on a limb here, talking about this stuff, becuase I havent talked about it to anyone, except three people in my entire life, and two of them are on the forum, and the response I got from them was incredible, so I am going to put myself out there and close my eyes and hope for the best.

...
PS thanks to Jess and Melissa

No, Max, thank you. For being the amazing person you are and for helping me on a day-to-day basis. I know what you mean about changing with the lights off. I do that too.  :-\ I'm sure you're going to find that people here are interested in you and your well being. It's an amazing place to be, where virtual strangers are given unconditional love first and foremost.
"Speak what you think today in words as hard as cannonballs and tomorrow speak what tomorrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said today." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self Reliance

Offline jackfingtwist

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Re: MTF? FTM? WTF? Everything you wanted to know about Transgender but were afra
« Reply #59 on: September 07, 2006, 01:36:28 PM »
Im going out on a limb here, talking about this stuff, becuase I havent talked about it to anyone, except three people in my entire life, and two of them are on the forum, and the response I got from them was incredible, so I am going to put myself out there and close my eyes and hope for the best.

...
PS thanks to Jess and Melissa

No, Max, thank you. For being the amazing person you are and for helping me on a day-to-day basis. I know what you mean about changing with the lights off. I do that too.  :-\ I'm sure you're going to find that people here are interested in you and your well being. It's an amazing place to be, where virtual strangers are given unconditional love first and foremost.

I you were the first one aside from D that I talked to about this. And its been going on.....for a LONg time. so I want to say thank you and your gonna accept it. damit
http://jack-fing-twist.livejournal.com/ - Max's jack drabbles

"I'm here with my tribe,
This family's my wealth
And I would die with them
Before I'd live by myself." S. Bear Bergman

"Its half biology and half corrective surgery gone wrong," Half Jack, Dresden Dolls