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Author Topic: Larry McMurtry  (Read 54939 times)

Offline CANSTANDIT

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Re: Larry McMurtry
« Reply #30 on: October 06, 2006, 07:40:23 PM »
Nikki, "Leaving Cheyenne" sounds like a good one...tx for mentioning it.


Offline Nikki

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Re: Larry McMurtry
« Reply #31 on: October 07, 2006, 09:08:19 AM »
Nikki, "Leaving Cheyenne" sounds like a good one...tx for mentioning it.



Also working my way through the "Lonesome Dove" series. Currently reading "Dead Man's Walk," the first adventures of the two young Texas rangers( at the ages of Ennis and Jack) who are featured throughout the series. As usual, McMurtry's account of the west is authentic and spellbinding; he doesn't pull any punches when recounting how the Commanches treated prisoners. This story is set against Texas when it was still a republic .

The two rangers, Gus McCrae and Woodrow Call remind me of J&E; their loyalty and friendship to each other is traced throughout the stories, and they develop a love that is not sexual, but is one of friendship between two men who have weathered danger and who must depend on each other to survive. A number of the characters in this story appear in the rest of the series, and their destinies are tied up in "Commanche Moon" and "Lonesome Dove." The last book in the series is "Streets of Laredo," the sequel to "Lonesome Dove," which won the Pulitizer Prize for McMurtry.

The shirts hanging on a nail shudder slightly in the draft.

If he does not force his attention on it, it might stoke the day, rewarm that old, cold time on the mountain when they owned the world and nothing seemed wrong.

Bliss was it in that dawn to be alive
But to be young was very heaven!

Offline CANSTANDIT

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Re: Larry McMurtry
« Reply #32 on: October 07, 2006, 09:31:59 AM »
I just remembered something!  Larry McMurtry said he wished he had written Brokeback Mountain; is it possible the deep friendship between Gus and Woodrow is the emotional construct for something Larry was unable or unwilling to follow thru on, at the time?
The reason I ask this, is, I realized I am having a virtually identifcal emotional empathy for the two couples: The LT best friend, Gus and Woodrow; and the LT lovers/best friend, Jack and Ennis. There is not much of a difference for me! Isn't that funny? I think G & W are actually written very much like aging marrieds; and Woodrow does say, "I Swear" to Gus, doesn't he, while Gus is dying? Or was that just with Deets' death??

I wonder how much of the M/M action we are discovering so many of us gals enjoy, is as much, or more of a function of watching the supposed emotional connection?

Hmmm......thoughts??

Offline Nikki

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Re: Larry McMurtry
« Reply #33 on: October 07, 2006, 09:57:24 AM »
I just remembered something!  Larry McMurtry said he wished he had written Brokeback Mountain; is it possible the deep friendship between Gus and Woodrow is the emotional construct for something Larry was unable or unwilling to follow thru on, at the time?
The reason I ask this, is, I realized I am having a virtually identifcal emotional empathy for the two couples: The LT best friend, Gus and Woodrow; and the LT lovers/best friend, Jack and Ennis. There is not much of a difference for me! Isn't that funny? I think G & W are actually written very much like aging marrieds; and Woodrow does say, "I Swear" to Gus, doesn't he, while Gus is dying? Or was that just with Deets' death??

I wonder how much of the M/M action we are discovering so many of us gals enjoy, is as much, or more of a function of watching the supposed emotional connection?

Hmmm......thoughts??

McMurtry did say he wished he'd written BBM. Did he say that on the BBM DVD or in an interview? Can't remember now -- think it was the DVD.

Didn't know you had read LD! Yes, in LD Gus and Call are very much like old marrieds -- they bicker in their old age just like they did younger, but their friendship and loyalty always comes through. In LD, the "I swear.." struck me right away, not only because of BBM, but also (I posted somewhere) I heard it used growing up in New Orleans. I think it's a southern/western thang!

Yes, maybe McMurtry's depiction of male friendship, loyalty and yes love, foreshadowed BBM -- maybe he didn't get to fleshing out the idea -- maybe he did -- interesting idea though. Yes, I thought of J&E all the while I've been reading the LD series.  The LD miniseries really was true to Call and Gus as played by Robert Duvall and Tommy Lee Jones --
The shirts hanging on a nail shudder slightly in the draft.

If he does not force his attention on it, it might stoke the day, rewarm that old, cold time on the mountain when they owned the world and nothing seemed wrong.

Bliss was it in that dawn to be alive
But to be young was very heaven!

Offline CANSTANDIT

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Re: Larry McMurtry
« Reply #34 on: October 07, 2006, 11:49:55 PM »
I just remembered something!  Larry McMurtry said he wished he had written Brokeback Mountain; is it possible the deep friendship between Gus and Woodrow is the emotional construct for something Larry was unable or unwilling to follow thru on, at the time?
The reason I ask this, is, I realized I am having a virtually identifcal emotional empathy for the two couples: The LT best friend, Gus and Woodrow; and the LT lovers/best friend, Jack and Ennis. There is not much of a difference for me! Isn't that funny? I think G & W are actually written very much like aging marrieds; and Woodrow does say, "I Swear" to Gus, doesn't he, while Gus is dying? Or was that just with Deets' death??

I wonder how much of the M/M action we are discovering so many of us gals enjoy, is as much, or more of a function of watching the supposed emotional connection?

Hmmm......thoughts??

McMurtry did say he wished he'd written BBM. Did he say that on the BBM DVD or in an interview? Can't remember now -- think it was the DVD.

Didn't know you had read LD! Yes, in LD Gus and Call are very much like old marrieds -- they bicker in their old age just like they did younger, but their friendship and loyalty always comes through. In LD, the "I swear.." struck me right away, not only because of BBM, but also (I posted somewhere) I heard it used growing up in New Orleans. I think it's a southern/western thang!

Yes, maybe McMurtry's depiction of male friendship, loyalty and yes love, foreshadowed BBM -- maybe he didn't get to fleshing out the idea -- maybe he did -- interesting idea though. Yes, I thought of J&E all the while I've been reading the LD series.  The LD miniseries really was true to Call and Gus as played by Robert Duvall and Tommy Lee Jones --
yeah, LD was a revelation to me; the first western epic, I think I had ever read; and was horrified by the realities included therein, and completely moved by the events. I worked in a Waldenbooks at the time it came out, and we all passed it around, read excerpts up at the cash register to each other, etc.  I had a chance to tell LM that it had affected me as deeply as Jane Eyre, and Catcher in the Rye, and boy his eyes just bugged out of his head; he was like, Oh, thank you so much, as if he didn't deserve the praise...wow.

Yes, I think he may have had issues in pushing the relationship between the two men, that AP clearly understood was a reality, many times over, in the western outback . I am convinced he was an enormous inlfuence on her-and now she is on him!!

Offline Nikki

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Re: Larry McMurtry
« Reply #35 on: October 08, 2006, 09:46:12 AM »


Oh yes, CSI, I've gotten hints or intimations or whatever when I read McMurtry, that something  reminds me of Annie or her "people" or dialogue. I believe she was influenced by McMurtry. One critic wrote that McMurtry is never sentimental or maudlin -- that comes through even in the love scenes he writes between two people. Very Annie -- it's written straight up, and yet the reader is aware of love between two people.  I've really gotten to love his work -- one more book in the LD series, "Streets of Laredo" -- will start it soon. I think a lot of people don't appreciate the western genre -- they're missing out if they skip McMurtry IMO.
The shirts hanging on a nail shudder slightly in the draft.

If he does not force his attention on it, it might stoke the day, rewarm that old, cold time on the mountain when they owned the world and nothing seemed wrong.

Bliss was it in that dawn to be alive
But to be young was very heaven!

Offline CANSTANDIT

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Re: Larry McMurtry
« Reply #36 on: October 09, 2006, 06:17:35 PM »


Oh yes, CSI, I've gotten hints or intimations or whatever when I read McMurtry, that something  reminds me of Annie or her "people" or dialogue. I believe she was influenced by McMurtry. One critic wrote that McMurtry is never sentimental or maudlin -- that comes through even in the love scenes he writes between two people. Very Annie -- it's written straight up, and yet the reader is aware of love between two people.  I've really gotten to love his work -- one more book in the LD series, "Streets of Laredo" -- will start it soon. I think a lot of people don't appreciate the western genre -- they're missing out if they skip McMurtry IMO.
I love "Well the West should mind its own business"-isn't that from Captain Call?? :D

Offline Nikki

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Re: Larry McMurtry
« Reply #37 on: October 09, 2006, 06:57:59 PM »


Don't have my book here -- also sounds like Gus McCrae!
The shirts hanging on a nail shudder slightly in the draft.

If he does not force his attention on it, it might stoke the day, rewarm that old, cold time on the mountain when they owned the world and nothing seemed wrong.

Bliss was it in that dawn to be alive
But to be young was very heaven!

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Re: Larry McMurtry
« Reply #38 on: October 14, 2006, 11:28:34 AM »
I wonder how much of the M/M action we are discovering so many of us gals enjoy, is as much, or more of a function of watching the supposed emotional connection?

Hmmm......thoughts??

I think that's a large part of it.  It also helps to be able to identify with the sex "action" in the books or movies where that is present.  But even a relationship of male "equals" or partners which doesn't have sex in it stirs up some of those same feelings, for me anyway.  (And sometimes my imagination runs away with me.   ;)  )

Interesting, what this thread has come up, about Larry McMurtry wishing he'd written BBM (I had read that also somewhere).  I've heard that someone did a study of the "homoerotic" elements in McMurtry's writing (sorry, I don't know who).  Maybe he would have taken it further, as in BBM, if he hadn't been held back by some inner constraints. 
Jack's from Texas.
Texans don't drink coffee?

Offline michaelflanagansf

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Re: Larry McMurtry
« Reply #39 on: October 14, 2006, 12:09:35 PM »
Interesting, what this thread has come up, about Larry McMurtry wishing he'd written BBM (I had read that also somewhere).  I've heard that someone did a study of the "homoerotic" elements in McMurtry's writing (sorry, I don't know who).  Maybe he would have taken it further, as in BBM, if he hadn't been held back by some inner constraints. 

There certainly seems to be a lot of M/M longing/bonding in other works of his.  The Sonny/Duane relationship is certainly central to 'The Last Picture Show' (let me state clearly that I'm not saying I believe there was homoerotic attraction there - I think there was more of a male bonding/boys trying to raise each other without strong fathers).  And I've read (though don't know this from observation) that the relationship in the film 'Hud' has strong elements of male bonding between Hud and the younger man in the film.
I do my thing, & you do your thing. I am not in this world to live up to your expectations, and you are not in this world to live up to mine. You are you and I am I, and if by chance we find each other - it is beautiful. If not it can't be helped.

Fritz Perls - A Gestalt Prayer

Offline Nikki

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Re: Larry McMurtry
« Reply #40 on: October 14, 2006, 12:19:15 PM »

There certainly seems to be a lot of M/M longing/bonding in other works of his.  The Sonny/Duane relationship is certainly central to 'The Last Picture Show' (let me state clearly that I'm not saying I believe there was homoerotic attraction there - I think there was more of a male bonding/boys trying to raise each other without strong fathers).  And I've read (though don't know this from observation) that the relationship in the film 'Hud' has strong elements of male bonding between Hud and the younger man in the film.

Yes Michael. Especially in the "Lonesome Dove" series -- the two protagonists who are Texas Rangers in the series have a very strong bond of loyalty and friendship that McMurtry traces throughout the series. It's not love the erotic sense, but a deep and abiding loyalty and friendship. He does seem to carry this over into other novels as well --

One critic mentioned that the Hollywood westerns often portrayed two men in close relationships/friendships that touched on this idea. An early movie western, "Ride the High Country" which starred Randolph Scott and Joel McCrea was compared to the bonding of men in the old west. And in real life there were hints  about Scott's sexuality.

The shirts hanging on a nail shudder slightly in the draft.

If he does not force his attention on it, it might stoke the day, rewarm that old, cold time on the mountain when they owned the world and nothing seemed wrong.

Bliss was it in that dawn to be alive
But to be young was very heaven!

Offline Nikki

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Re: Larry McMurtry
« Reply #41 on: October 14, 2006, 04:45:25 PM »


Interesting bit from "Parade" magazine.  Ben Johnson who starred in and won an Oscar for 1971's "The Last Picture Show" was a rodeo cowboy and ranch hand before becoming a stunt double and actor. He played the part of Sam the Lion in McMurtry's story to film.
The shirts hanging on a nail shudder slightly in the draft.

If he does not force his attention on it, it might stoke the day, rewarm that old, cold time on the mountain when they owned the world and nothing seemed wrong.

Bliss was it in that dawn to be alive
But to be young was very heaven!

Offline CANSTANDIT

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Re: Larry McMurtry
« Reply #42 on: October 18, 2006, 07:15:06 PM »
Ben Johnson...talk about an alpha male... :P :P

I have to get going on my next AP book! I'm in withdrawal, I swear..... :D

Homeward..later..


Offline michaelflanagansf

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Re: Larry McMurtry
« Reply #43 on: November 10, 2006, 07:56:20 PM »
Sad news to report - Basil Poledouris, composer for the television miniseries 'Lonesome Dove' has died at age 61:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2006/11/10/state/n165027S56.DTL

Here is his imdb.com page:

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0006231/

Here is his wikipedia entry:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basil_Poledouris

Happy trails and endless songs to you sir.

I do my thing, & you do your thing. I am not in this world to live up to your expectations, and you are not in this world to live up to mine. You are you and I am I, and if by chance we find each other - it is beautiful. If not it can't be helped.

Fritz Perls - A Gestalt Prayer

Offline Nikki

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Re: Larry McMurtry
« Reply #44 on: November 10, 2006, 08:22:35 PM »


Michael, thanks for that sad news. Polidoris was a great musician -- I saw most of those movies mentioned, and the background scores helped make those films work, especially Lonesome Dove.   Very sad.

Nikki
The shirts hanging on a nail shudder slightly in the draft.

If he does not force his attention on it, it might stoke the day, rewarm that old, cold time on the mountain when they owned the world and nothing seemed wrong.

Bliss was it in that dawn to be alive
But to be young was very heaven!