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Author Topic: The Structure of the Movie and Film Editing  (Read 133820 times)

lynn

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Re: Element: The Structure of the Movie and Film Editing
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2006, 10:48:40 AM »
Chiaros, thank you for bringing the cultural influences into this discussion. I read somewhere that Ang draws on his background to bring a different look and feel to American films. I would love to hear more about this. I imagine much of the movie's formal, almost elegant structure reflects the formalism of Chinese society and architecture.

helen_uk

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Re: Element: The Structure of the Movie and Film Editing
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2006, 04:38:20 PM »
Not sure if this wholly fits into the bookend thing, but I thought it interesting, nonetheless.

When they are sent up the mountain Jack is complaining that Aguirre has no right splitting them up, that it's against the law etc etc.  But we know he's really saying it because he'll have less time with Ennis, who he obviously has ideas about.

When Aguirre tells them to leave early it is Ennis who complains, talking of lost money etc.  But we know that he is really bothered because he thought he would have more time with Jack, who he has fallen in love with.

Offline Sand

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Re: Element: The Structure of the Movie and Film Editing
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2006, 06:07:02 PM »
Good going with the "bookends"...my next visit to the big screen is to watch for those alone. 

I don't know where to put it, but wouldn't it be sort of fun, or at least interesting, to see a tally of how many times everyone has seen Brokeback? I have seen it 4 times, yet I wish I could say 10! 

Also, is there a post on here about the first goodbye Jack and Ennis have and most especially the reaction of Ennis? That scene where he stumbles into the wall with stomach pain and tears... was almost too much to bare.  From that point on, the hurt was staggering.

Offline mikel1814

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Re: Element: The Structure of the Movie and Film Editing
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2006, 08:32:39 PM »
Don't forget that Ennis gets out of the truck carrying a brown paper bag with all of his life's posessions in it.

And the bookend is that he gets into the truck carrying a brown paper bag with all his life's posessions in it.

Offline case

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Re: Element: The Structure of the Movie and Film Editing
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2006, 08:58:32 PM »
--My Act three is also pretty much PeteIP's, but with Ennis' driving away back to the right as both the final coda and the overall end marker.  However, there is no true "symmetrical markers" for me in this Act, because this is the Act when the TRANSFIGURATION occurs to Ennis at Jack's house right at the end.

...the final touchstone, Ennis finding the shirts in the closet, the realization of loss and the point of transfiguration.

There's a nice visual which signals this during the drive back to the right.

At Jack's house, the final shot is outside as Ennis is walking with his paper bag towards his truck (and towards the camera). He intently gazes off to the right as the scene slowly fades into the next shot with Ennis driving straight across the frame. As his truck reaches the precise spot on screen where he was just walking, there's an edit to another, closer shot of his truck still driving left to right, but at a less downward angle.

One clever, thoughtful edit signals a course change in Ennis. What a movie.

His first course change occurred when his parents drove straight, too. What a story.
I'm in awe.

Offline peteinportland

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Re: Element: The Structure of the Movie and Film Editing
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2006, 09:01:09 PM »
Sand, there is a thread for the Alley scenes.

Mikel, welcome. Glad you finally found your way here (I've never been to the IMDB boards, so I guess I should check it out). I think the bookend you mention, started our whole bookend theme!


Offline chiaros

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Re: Element: The Structure of the Movie and Film Editing
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2006, 06:01:25 PM »
--My Act three is also pretty much PeteIP's, but with Ennis' driving away back to the right as both the final coda and the overall end marker.  However, there is no true "symmetrical markers" for me in this Act, because this is the Act when the TRANSFIGURATION occurs to Ennis at Jack's house right at the end.

...the final touchstone, Ennis finding the shirts in the closet, the realization of loss and the point of transfiguration.

There's a nice visual which signals this during the drive back to the right.

At Jack's house, the final shot is outside as Ennis is walking with his paper bag towards his truck (and towards the camera). He intently gazes off to the right as the scene slowly fades into the next shot with Ennis driving straight across the frame. As his truck reaches the precise spot on screen where he was just walking, there's an edit to another, closer shot of his truck still driving left to right, but at a less downward angle.

One clever, thoughtful edit signals a course change in Ennis. What a movie.

His first course change occurred when his parents drove straight, too. What a story.
I'm in awe.

Case,
Lovely!!!
INTP

Offline mwp2paris

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Re: Element: The Structure of the Movie and Film Editing
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2006, 10:04:25 PM »
Having read the story over and over and then purchasing the Story to Screenplay today and reading the story and the screenplay twice on the plane, I to had hoped, because I think it is such a powerful indicator into what Ennis became, that the movie would have started in the present with an older Ennis, rising up off his bed in the growing light of early dawn, shuffling around doing mundane morning things in ritualistic fashion (this would indicate that he had settled into his life like a well-worn but comfortable glove that he felt no need to replace), no music or dialogue, just the sound of the wind on the trailer; then Ennis stops to straighten the shirts, look at the now fading postcard, and then out the window, across the lonely prairie, to the distant mountain range...then the quiet, longing sounds of the guitar, and we are into the movie as it is. Like pieces of a puzzle spread on a table, all the bits of the story are there though they would not have made sense, but over the course of the next 2 hours, all the pieces would have fallen into place...except for those tantilizing few that Annie, Larry, Diane, and Ang leave out.

But that could also be interpreted to mean that the entire movie took place in Ennis's memory and perhaps Larry and Diane wanted to be clear that it did not and so chose a more linear timeline except for the gaybashing memory and the dozy embrace.

I love this story and the movie.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2006, 10:06:57 PM by mwp2paris »
[...he is suffused with a sense of pleasure because Jack Twist was in his dream. ... If he does not force his attention on it, it might stoke the day, rewarm that old, cold time on the mountain when they owned the world and nothing seemed wrong.  Annie Proulx

Offline cythera4

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Re: Element: The Structure of the Movie and Film Editing
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2006, 10:30:57 PM »
A couple more bookending images/scenes (some of these have been mentioned on other threads):

Story starts and ends in a trailer, first with Jack & Ennis meeting, then with Ennis alone

use of word "lonely" in scenes where Ennis and Jack are apart: first, Alma says they should move to town so they won't be lonely like Ennis was as a boy, in a scene shortly afterward Jack dances with Lureen to a song where the word "lonely" is prominently sung (both scenes show closeups of the men's faces; it's clear that, though they're both with women and thus not alone, they are feeling lonely for each other)


Offline peteinportland

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Re: Element: The Structure of the Movie and Film Editing
« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2006, 01:24:22 AM »
You know, I've been discussing these lonely moments for some time, and I never have thought of them as bookends but as parallels until thinking about it just now.

Ennis is looking to the left of the screen, and Jack is looking to the right of the screen. It is almost as if they are staring across time and place at one another. In the moments right after those looks we see Ennis top Alma and Jack on the bottom with Lureen on top of him. Again, Ennis is looking to the left and and Jack to the right. I think they just might be bookends: the lonely bookends.

Offline Leaker

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Re: Element: The Structure of the Movie and Film Editing
« Reply #25 on: February 02, 2006, 10:00:06 PM »
But that could also be interpreted to mean that the entire movie took place in Ennis's memory and perhaps Larry and Diane wanted to be clear that it did not and so chose a more linear timeline except for the gaybashing memory and the dozy embrace.

I love this story and the movie.

If you read the original short story it opens with Ennis as an older person (hinted by the lines 'scratching the grey wedge of belly and pubic hair' and 'He might have to stay with his married daughter'. In addition, the opening text in the 'Close Range' collection is in italics (indicating current thought). It is certainly Ennis thinking back. My gut feel is that since the story was written in 1996/1997 I would bet that the author pictured Ennis as he would be in 1997 (or a little earlier). I am sure she would not assume a 39 year old (as he would be in 1983) would have grey pubic hair. She does this specifically to indicate age.

I must admit that I would have like to see Ennis much older at the end of the movie to show the audience that his love for Jack is still strong after the passage of years.

Offline Leaker

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Re: Element: The Structure of the Movie and Film Editing
« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2006, 10:06:48 PM »
Here is another 'bookend'...

The word 'Lonely'.

- Ennis is in his PJs and Alma is kissing his neck. He is tired and somewhat unresponsive when she suggests they move to town. As soon as she says the word 'lonely' (i.e. you don't want the girls to grow up lonely like you') he perks up, turns and starts kissing her. That is their first love making scene.

- Jack is on the dance floor for the first time with Lureen. They are chatting and dancing. As soon as the singer sings with word 'lonely (or lonesome)' you see Jacks eyes and his wanting. The next scene we see Jack and Lureen making out in the car.

Both these sets of scenes were in sequence.

Is that a bookend?

Just wondering... Peter

Offline peteinportland

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Re: Element: The Structure of the Movie and Film Editing
« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2006, 10:24:17 PM »
You know, we disussed this just a couple of posts ago. Please refer to the posts above. Thanks!

Offline mwp2paris

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Re: Element: The Structure of the Movie and Film Editing
« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2006, 11:04:35 PM »
But that could also be interpreted to mean that the entire movie took place in Ennis's memory and perhaps Larry and Diane wanted to be clear that it did not and so chose a more linear timeline except for the gaybashing memory and the dozy embrace.

I love this story and the movie.

If you read the original short story it opens with Ennis as an older person (hinted by the lines 'scratching the grey wedge of belly and pubic hair' and 'He might have to stay with his married daughter'. In addition, the opening text in the 'Close Range' collection is in italics (indicating current thought). It is certainly Ennis thinking back. My gut feel is that since the story was written in 1996/1997 I would bet that the author pictured Ennis as he would be in 1997 (or a little earlier). I am sure she would not assume a 39 year old (as he would be in 1983) would have grey pubic hair. She does this specifically to indicate age.

I must admit that I would have like to see Ennis much older at the end of the movie to show the audience that his love for Jack is still strong after the passage of years.

The opening scene in the short story is so telling and moving. Ennis is obviously older. The italics speak volumes. Ennis is perhaps now a grandfather. Alma, Jr. is married and Ennis's dry wit may make him a wonderful grandpa. His grandkids love him just as his daughters do. But then he comes home to his trailer, the shirts, and his memories. He has moved on, yet he has not. We have no idea how many trailers he has lived in and now he may have to move in with his married daughter. The despair, and yet the love I feel for this character is amazing. I just want to take him for a cup of coffee and say it is all right and offer some word of comfort to him.

Sometimes he dreams a nightmare and wakes up with his pillow wet, sometimes he dreams of Jack and their intimacy and wakes up with his sheets wet. Annie's prose, in the next to last paragraph of the story, are just so moving.

Now what does that last paragraph mean? I have read it so many times I just don't know and I think that is the point...we interpret it as we want.

I have to admit, while I would like to see what becomes of Ennis, I would also like to see one more lovemaking scene when the two are older. Annie alludes to it in her prose (high-altitude f*cks) but I want to know that they found an intimacy that fulfilled them both even if it was only for the time they were together.

That tent scene, just before all hell breaks loose by the lake with the "I wish I could quit you" line and the torquing back to nearly what they had been, when Ennis and Jack are sleeping, now nearly in their 40s, wrapped up together...beautiful.

I freely admit this is one hell of a gay movie and I love every scene.
[...he is suffused with a sense of pleasure because Jack Twist was in his dream. ... If he does not force his attention on it, it might stoke the day, rewarm that old, cold time on the mountain when they owned the world and nothing seemed wrong.  Annie Proulx

Offline FoS

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Re: Element: The Structure of the Movie and Film Editing
« Reply #29 on: February 03, 2006, 12:00:11 PM »
Stop me if this is old news.
It has struck me how totally opposites Jack and Ennis are.
Jack is the charming, optimistic, happy-go-lucky type.
Ennis introvert.
In spite of Jacks charm and wanting to please all, he is turned down and hurt by everybody (father, father-in-law a.h., clown), except Ennis and Laureen, who eventually also does so.
Ennis is loved by everybody, even if he does not want it (Cassie), and in fact he ends up hurting verybody.

Jack is gentle and kind. Ennis can be violent.

Jack is not very good at anything practical - shooting, cooking, rodeo(ing?). Won 3000$ though, and gets pretty well off in the end.
Ennis shoots the coyote and the elk, is maybe good at his job as ranch hand even if its hard to support the family, and he allways stays poor.
And sure, neither he is good at cooking.

Jack is taken by Laureen. Ennis takes Alma.

Jack has a son, that he did?t want. Ennis wanted a son, but had daughters.

Jack is the one to travel back and forth. Ennis has and will only travel around the coffeepot.

Jack has dark hair, dark hats and clothes - and bright blue eyes.
Ennis is blond, and wears paler colors. His eyes are brown (or green?)
It is allmost as if their eyes are the small contrasting dots in the yin/yan symbol.

Still they fit ?like the right key fits the lock?. I guess it is often like that - opposites are attracted to each other to be completed. This would of course be even more obvious in a man/woman relation, but certainly also applies to gay dittos. Age, characters, physically -  you name it.