The Ultimate Brokeback Forum

Author Topic: The Structure of the Movie and Film Editing  (Read 128833 times)

Offline peteinportland

  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 2063
Re: Element: The Structure of the Movie and Film Editing
« Reply #60 on: February 26, 2006, 07:54:36 PM »
Michelle, have you been reading all the threads in this forum?  ;D You certainly summed it up all neatly for us! Very good (as my friend Ennis said about Jack's singing).

Offline romeshvr

  • Experienced
  • ***
  • Posts: 134
Re: Element: The Structure of the Movie and Film Editing
« Reply #61 on: February 26, 2006, 09:07:17 PM »
Thanks Michelle.  Good summary.  I picked up these points in my viewing too.  Jack G mentioned in one of his interviews to listen to what is not said in the movie.

You might want to add this point to your summary as well... the scene where Lureen's parents come to vist the new baby, where Jack pretends to smile... I bet he was thinking Ennis....


 

Offline michelle

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 281
Re: Element: The Structure of the Movie and Film Editing
« Reply #62 on: February 27, 2006, 11:08:40 AM »
Michelle, have you been reading all the threads in this forum?  ;D You certainly summed it up all neatly for us! Very good (as my friend Ennis said about Jack's singing).
Damn straight I have, pete   :D Like every one else here, it's unbelievable how much enjoyment I've gained in watching the movie from reading the insights of all; the folks here. So another big thank you to everybody. ;)

Offline intervale

  • Experienced
  • ***
  • Posts: 101
Re: Element: The Structure of the Movie and Film Editing
« Reply #63 on: February 27, 2006, 11:32:28 AM »
You might want to add this point to your summary as well... the scene where Lureen's parents come to vist the new baby, where Jack pretends to smile... I bet he was thinking Ennis....

You bet.

That's got to be the precise moment at which Jack realizes/accepts that this whole life he's been trying so hard to create is a sham, that it's never going to work for him, that it's never going to be satisfying, that it will never feel right, that it's never going to match what he had (or could have had) with Ennis.  He's a stranger in his own family, even visually. He's in the doorframe having things carelessly tossed at him, not being called by his name, being slighted as the father, his wife only barely commiserating with him. Ang Lee made the perfect choice not to use that shot that's a famous production still: of Jack and Lureen in the bed together holding the baby.  The visual separation says it all: the whole family huddled together at the bed across the room, and Jack separate from them, already halfway out the door.

For Jack, if today of all days feels this empty, relatively speaking, then he'd better finally do what he's always dreamt of doing in the back of his mind. Because if he doesn't try to find Ennis now, he never will.

And what's the very next thing we see?  Ennis getting Jack's post card.

Offline All4one

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 510
Re: Element: The Structure of the Movie and Film Editing
« Reply #64 on: February 27, 2006, 11:40:34 AM »
Oh yes - to all you just said.
They even deny him the small favor of claiming the baby looked like Jack.
"One's enough"  A.P.

Offline michelle

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 281
Re: Element: The Structure of the Movie and Film Editing
« Reply #65 on: February 27, 2006, 11:54:47 AM »
That's got to be the precise moment at which Jack realizes/accepts that this whole life he's been trying so hard to create is a sham, that it's never going to work for him, that it's never going to be satisfying, that it will never feel right, that it's never going to match what he had (or could have had) with Ennis.  He's a stranger in his own family, even visually. (...) For Jack, if today of all days feels this empty, relatively speaking, then he'd better finally do what he's always dreamt of doing in the back of his mind. Because if he doesn't try to find Ennis now, he never will.
And what's the very next thing we see?  Ennis getting Jack's post card.

Great point. Editing choices are so damned important, in this film especially.

Offline intervale

  • Experienced
  • ***
  • Posts: 101
Re: Element: The Structure of the Movie and Film Editing
« Reply #66 on: February 27, 2006, 11:58:36 AM »
Wow -- this was definitely not in the version that I saw. After the initial shove by Jack, it cuts to the scene where they are feasting by the campfire. hmm.... How many versions are out there???? 

FYI: Don't worry, there is only one version of the movie.  No slightly edited versions.  No slightly different audio.  Only one version.

The moment was there.  It's easy to miss, I missed it the 1st and 2nd time I saw it.  You have to pay close attention, your eye is drawn elsewhere, and it's also easy to forget if you're not thinking about what it actually indicates (that Ennis is loosening up and palling around with Jack for the first time).

I LOVE this scene for so many reasons, but one is that it shows us how wonderful a couple Jack and Ennis are, in a pattern that will be repeated: this scene is really happy and they are kind and affectionate toward each other and make each other smile and laugh, which is the opposite of the scene prior, where they were morose and angry and disagreeing.  Jack and Ennis take a bitter situation and make it sweet.  They don't hold onto the negative.  They do it again later with the untangling of sheep.  That scene is morose and they're angry and disagreeing.  But the next scene is the opposite, they are kind and affectionate (verbally) to each other and make each other smile and laugh.  What a beautiful relationship, in that way.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2006, 12:01:06 PM by intervale »

Offline intervale

  • Experienced
  • ***
  • Posts: 101
Re: Element: The Structure of the Movie and Film Editing
« Reply #67 on: February 27, 2006, 12:00:01 PM »
michelle,
ditto on all the compliments to your list post on the prior page. Well done. I thought of one more, but it slipped my mind again, I'll keep thinking.


Offline intervale

  • Experienced
  • ***
  • Posts: 101
Re: Element: The Structure of the Movie and Film Editing
« Reply #68 on: February 27, 2006, 12:02:36 PM »
I can understand if hunting buddy was chosen, then there would be a hunting season and I think they would have to get license and all.

Rabbit season or duck season?

sorry, couldn't resist.

Offline intervale

  • Experienced
  • ***
  • Posts: 101
Re: Element: The Structure of the Movie and Film Editing
« Reply #69 on: February 27, 2006, 12:06:54 PM »
speaking of the elk scene, does anybody remember if jack touches ennis again before they leave? you know, after he was pushed over, when he says they better hurry and get the elk? i know he moves closer to ennis when he says that but forget if he actually touches ennis again.  i can't check right now.

Offline michelle

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 281
Re: Element: The Structure of the Movie and Film Editing
« Reply #70 on: February 27, 2006, 07:24:03 PM »
LOL In Tears, I just got back online and see that the deleted script problem had been resolved. I wonder if the version I have is the same one as the one at this new link. Guess I'll have to download it and find out.

I wanted to raise another topic I've been thinking about and maybe others can add to it also. Someone a few days ago mentioned the binary structure of the narrative in this movie and I agree. But even more intriguing are the "echos", the pairs of images Ang gives us, sometimes drawing comparisons, sometimes contrasts, that each and together convey much meaning. I'm thinking, for instance, of (and feel free to add to the list):

1. the opening scene of truck (that carries Ennis) crossing the entire screen from right to left as he arrives in Signal the first morning vs Ennis' pick-up driving across the entire screen from right to left as he drives away from Lightning Flat with the precious shirts (which arguably ends the story -- the last scene in the trailer with Alma Jr. acting as epilogue)

2. the paper bag Ennis carries as he arrives in Signal, and which seems to contain all his earthly belongings vs. the paper bag he carries as he leaves the Twist household, and which carries his heart, i.e. the precious shirts, all that remains of Jack, which is to say all on Earth that he's most loved.

3. the dead sheep, lying on its back, ripped open and devoured by a coyote vs the dead Earl, lying on his back in a ditch, his groin ripped open and mutilated by murderous men, probably including E's father.

4. the bedroom scene where Alma comes up behind Ennis and wraps her arms around his shoulders, whispering dreamily in his ear about moving to Riverton vs the dozy embrace Ennis and Jack shared, when they were first together on Brokeback Mountain.

5. the window scene with Ennis staring out at the road, waiting expectantly for Jack to show, drinking beer and chain-smoking vs. the window scene in Jack's boyhood room, with the shell-shocked Ennis sitting, looking out at the empty yard, knowing Jack is gone forever.

There are countless others, including the trucks Ennis buys, the jackets he wears that are identical to Jack's, the Thanksgiving dinners where both Jack and Ennis are shown as strangers in the homes of their children, both blow up, Jack at his father-in-law and Ennis at Alma, both have their haire slicked back, both are wearing mexican-style "ties" (forget the name of those but you get my meaning) etc.


downloaded1

  • Guest
Re: Element: The Structure of the Movie and Film Editing
« Reply #71 on: February 27, 2006, 07:28:26 PM »
WHY does Ennis get the postcard marked deceased?
Why didnt Lureen have that postcard?
Surely they didnt have separate addresses????

Offline In Tears

  • Experienced
  • ***
  • Posts: 195
Re: Element: The Structure of the Movie and Film Editing
« Reply #72 on: February 27, 2006, 07:45:49 PM »
I wanted to raise another topic I've been thinking about and maybe others can add to it also. Someone a few days ago mentioned the binary structure of the narrative in this movie and I agree. But even more intriguing are the "echos", the pairs of images Ang gives us, sometimes drawing comparisons, sometimes contrasts, that each and together convey much meaning. I'm thinking, for instance, of (and feel free to add to the list):

1. the opening scene of truck (that carries Ennis) crossing the entire screen from right to left as he arrives in Signal the first morning vs Ennis' pick-up driving across the entire screen from right to left as he drives away from Lightning Flat with the precious shirts (which arguably ends the story -- the last scene in the trailer with Alma Jr. acting as epilogue)

2. the paper bag Ennis carries as he arrives in Signal, and which seems to contain all his earthly belongings vs. the paper bag he carries as he leaves the Twist household, and which carries his heart, i.e. the precious shirts, all that remains of Jack, which is to say all on Earth that he's most loved.

3. the dead sheep, lying on its back, ripped open and devoured by a coyote vs the dead Earl, lying on his back in a ditch, his groin ripped open and mutilated by murderous men, probably including E's father.

4. the bedroom scene where Alma comes up behind Ennis and wraps her arms around his shoulders, whispering dreamily in his ear about moving to Riverton vs the dozy embrace Ennis and Jack shared, when they were first together on Brokeback Mountain.

5. the window scene with Ennis staring out at the road, waiting expectantly for Jack to show, drinking beer and chain-smoking vs. the window scene in Jack's boyhood room, with the shell-shocked Ennis sitting, looking out at the empty yard, knowing Jack is gone forever.

There are countless others, including the trucks Ennis buys, the jackets he wears that are identical to Jack's, the Thanksgiving dinners where both Jack and Ennis are shown as strangers in the homes of their children, both blow up, Jack at his father-in-law and Ennis at Alma, both have their haire slicked back, both are wearing mexican-style "ties" (forget the name of those but you get my meaning) etc.

I am already late for dinner (you know this is really getting bad when ....) but I'll add to what I predict will eventually become a very long list:

6.  Coyotes with balls the size of apples / men with tire irons
7.  Aguirre spies J&E kissing / Alma spies J&E kissing (both hold the knowledge until they can use it to cause pain)
8. E's sex with J / E's sex with Alma
9. Alma Jr.'s understanding of her father/ Mrs. Twist's understanding of her son (both know more than the wives)
10. Alley in Signal (E's pain)/ Alley in Mexico (J's pain)
11. Cruel LB Newsome / Cruel John Twist
12. "Play" snowfight with E and Alma / "Play" BBM fights with E and J
13. E's father's abuse of his son (Earl)/ John Twist's abuse of his son (pissing)(story)
14. J lassos E on BBM / E keeps J on short leash off BBM
15. J is drawn to performing for an audience / E fears an audience above all
16. E accepts domestic chores for J  / E rejects them for Alma
17. E catches watch, shoots elk, fixes truck / J drops keys, misses coyote, can't start truck
18. E pummels biker as a family man (July 4)/ Roughneck pummels E as a found-out man (Thanksgiving)
19. Embers before E joins J FNIT/Embers before last good bye

Great group!
« Last Edit: March 04, 2006, 04:08:05 AM by In Tears »
"Later, that dozy embrace solidified in his memory as the single moment of artless, charmed happiness in their separate and difficult lives."

Offline michelle

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 281
Re: Element: The Structure of the Movie and Film Editing
« Reply #73 on: February 27, 2006, 07:57:55 PM »
Wow, In Tears, thanks so much! Even picked up a few I'd never thought of.

Offline Rob.

  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 1208
  • ...it should be like this, just like this, always!
Re: Element: The Structure of the Movie and Film Editing
« Reply #74 on: February 27, 2006, 08:28:11 PM »
speaking of the elk scene, does anybody remember if jack touches ennis again before they leave? you know, after he was pushed over, when he says they better hurry and get the elk? i know he moves closer to ennis when he says that but forget if he actually touches ennis again.  i can't check right now.

  Very hard to tell.  Ennis shoots the Elk, Jack yells Woowee and shoves Ennis, Ennis shoves Jack back (gettin tired of yer dumbass missin)  Then it LOOKS like he has his hand on Ennis' arm - but they're behind the stump at that point.  I'd say yes, since when they stand up - Jack's arm is in the right position.  Ennis very definately does give him a slap on the arm.

  Rob
.....Nothin never come to my hand the right way.