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Author Topic: The Reunion  (Read 599767 times)

Offline BlueAmber63

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Re: The Reunion
« Reply #4845 on: August 26, 2017, 06:27:30 PM »
                                                         ^^^

Jack broaches these questions and ideas to Ennis ...... almost knowing what his answers
will be. Not believing for one moment that Ennis will agree to any of it. Jack just had to
chance it... thinking after such a wonderful reunion.... lots of sex and making out ....it just may have made Ennis change his mind.


When Jack asks these questions ....... he knows he is walking on a knifes edge. Hence
the closed eyes and a look.... that seems like he holding his breath.
Jack.....always the dreamer....is soon bought down to earth with a resounding "NO" from Ennis.....but is hoping Jack is assuaged with a promise of them meeting up "every now and then". 
Jacks disappointment is over whelming. He cannot see any future except for a few passion filled fleeting days when life would begin ...... and then end... till the next time.
Jack knows he will agree to this. Anything.....is better than nothing.


 
« Last Edit: August 26, 2017, 06:49:11 PM by BlueAmber63 »

Offline CellarDweller115

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Re: The Reunion
« Reply #4846 on: August 26, 2017, 07:36:10 PM »
Hello Sue!

Just  wanted  you to know I quoted a part of your post above, and moved it to the BBM general discussion thread.

Not because your post is off topic,  but because my reply would've been,  so I moved it to a thread where my reply fit in better.  ;)

Offline BlueJeanJeannie

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Re: The Reunion
« Reply #4847 on: August 27, 2017, 02:20:06 PM »
Or is this a puppet instead of the actor?

Well now, that's an insult to Jake's acting  :laugh:

I thought he was wonderful in that scene, as was Heath. We're just not used to seeing Jack this introverted, I suppose. And I think it was indeed foreshadowing - to the "Once in a while? Ev'ry four fuckin' years?" line. As Sue said: Jack, always the dreamer. He knows he's in for heartbreak, there's just no escaping it with Ennis.
Chaos is order yet undeciphered.

Offline CellarDweller115

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Re: The Reunion
« Reply #4848 on: August 27, 2017, 05:29:55 PM »
Agree with both Sue and Sonja.  Well said.

Offline BJ

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Re: The Reunion
« Reply #4849 on: August 27, 2017, 07:41:03 PM »
I think on some level there was no reaction from Jack because even though he wanted "the sweet life", he knew what kind of man Ennis was, and Ennis was never gonna leave his wife and daughters.

Jack broaches these questions and ideas to Ennis ...... almost knowing what his answers
will be. Not believing for one moment that Ennis will agree to any of it.

He knows he's in for heartbreak, there's just no escaping it with Ennis.

Guys, thanks a lot for your replies!
But i cannot agree with your statements. All of you say that Jack KNOWS the answer already. But how can it be?? Did they ever had this kind of conversation before? The "break up" at Brokeback was confusing because of the punch. Neither Ennis nor Jack were sure of the other ones feelings and they did not discuss them. When Jack arrives at Riverton after 4 years he is not sure what Ennis will think of him, how and whether their relationship (even as friendship) will ever continue. Jack gets a plain, loud and clear answer about Ennis' feelings towards him when he slams Jack into the wall and kisses the hell out of him. Jack has *no* idea about Ennis' relationship towards Alma or his daughters at this point! What if his marriage is a total hell, his ideals of being a father not being met at all? What if Ennis is just waiting for Jack to appear again so he can divorce Alma and run away with him? How can you say that Jack already has the certain knowledge of all of this before they even get to Siesta? I strongly doubt they talked on everything before they arrived at Siesta and had any sex. I am convinced the conversation we see on screen (same as in the book by the way) is the first talk they have after Jack getting out of the truck at the laundromat and Ennis shouting out "Jack fucking Twist!".

Yes, it does look like Jack is holding his breath, but i don't understand why - not after that reunion kiss and the sex they had (as pointed out by many others, probably nothing like what they had on the mountain) and also not after that happy look Jack has upon saying "Damn, 4 years". I know that the movie made two scenes out of one scene in the book and this is maybe the reason why Jack's reaction is so unnatural. We have his reaction "every 4 fucking years?!" right away later on - why is there absolutely nothing in the motel?

We're just not used to seeing Jack this introverted
I believe Jack is totally an introvert where his feelings are concerned. The book-Jack is more assertive and expresses his frustration better, but movie-Jack is totally shy and insecure. Still, the practical non-existence of *any* reaction is (for me) deeply disturbing...

Offline CellarDweller115

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Re: The Reunion
« Reply #4850 on: August 27, 2017, 08:55:11 PM »
But i cannot agree with your statements. All of you say that Jack KNOWS the answer already. But how can it be?? Did they ever had this kind of conversation before? The "break up" at Brokeback was confusing because of the punch. Neither Ennis nor Jack were sure of the other ones feelings and they did not discuss them.

Yes, they didn't discuss anything, but the way it was left at the end of their first summer gave  good indication.   Ennis made no effort to get any contact info on Jack, and was quick to bring up his upcoming marriage to Alma.   No discussion on getting together with  Jack in  any way.

Offline Ministering angel

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Re: The Reunion
« Reply #4851 on: September 04, 2017, 07:27:08 PM »
There is a bit in the Reunion scene - actually at the Siesta scene - which i am confused about. It would be nice to hear what others think of this.

At the motel, during the shots where Ennis is in focus - i wonder why Jack looks so scary. Why he doesn't even move... Eyes closed, no emotion, in the dark? It should be some happy time, Jack looks so happy to be reunited with Ennis and asks him about what they will do about it now. He's full of hope, yes. I can imagine he is in the same state as back on Brokeback when Aguire told them to come back - he is just convinced that it will all work out and they will be together. I suppose he does not have any idea of what kind of odds there might ever / even be. So, Ennis' answer must come as a surprise and shock. I just cannot think otherwise. But Jack's reaction is practically non-existent. No body movement, no head movement, not even blinking or opening the eyes or even smoking - nothing! I swear he doesn't even breathe! Even when Ennis / Heath takes a draw at his cigarette his head moves and pushes Jack's / Jake's slightly - no reaction at all...

Was it done on purpose as kind of foreshadowing? Is this just a imperfection in an otherwise perfect movie? Or is this a puppet instead of the actor?
I actually dragged out my DVD and watched this scene (and only this scene - the mood has to be perfect to watch the whole film and I haven't watched it in a long time) and you are right that Jack is entirely still and with eyes essentially closed. Trouble is, we know from what Ang Lee has said that there was a big difference in the way Heath and Jake approached scenes. Heath kept within a narrow band of interpretation and while he reacted to Jake's actions he did so within that band. OTOH Jake gave a variety of readings and left it up to Ang and his editors to decide which worked best. (There was one occasion when Jake's approach was so far from what Heath was expecting that Heath cracked the shits!) So Ang and co. might just have felt that the non-response worked best in this scene. Later, at the river, when Jack makes his proposal about the cow-and-calf operation, he's hopeful, clearly not feeling that the future is hopeless. He's prepared to argue his case.

Offline BJ

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Re: The Reunion
« Reply #4852 on: September 05, 2017, 09:39:16 PM »
Hey Marian!

Thanks so much for re-watching this scene for me!
If i put myself in Jack's shoes at that point that totally non-existent reaction feels absolutely unnatural to me. It is simply not plausible. A few moments earlier Jack is smiling into Ennis' hair, "4 years, damn", "redlining", "Brokeback got us good" - he's in an euphoric mood... I cannot see why he is not responding emotionally after Ennis' rejection at that point.

If you, too, start to argue with filmmakers' decisions, then i also tend to think that this lifeless Jack is a result of scene splitting. As mentioned, the scene in the book is all complete at the motel and Jack's reaction much more natural and emotional, while Ang Lee decided to split the scene and probably saved Jack's outburst for later, at the river.
So, it IS an imperfection...

Offline BlueAmber63

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Re: The Reunion
« Reply #4853 on: October 14, 2017, 04:06:58 PM »
Jack knew if he had asked for more ....and pushed the " situation" ..... he could be in danger of losing the small times Ennis was willing to give.Remember...Jack *KNEW* Ennis.He knew how to handle this skittish stallion of a man! It was always made clear
Ennis would not be pushed. The only time in the whole of BBM ....that Ennis is ever
coerced in to doing something he didn't want, is when he moved into the small apartment over the launderette to shut Alma's whining up !
If Jack had blown his top at Ennis' refusal.....and angry words were exchanged ...Ennis would have up and gone....bringing to an end BBM.
I really wouldn't have wanted that....would you ?

Offline BJ

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Re: The Reunion
« Reply #4854 on: October 15, 2017, 07:00:41 PM »
Hey BlueAmber!

Thanks for coming back to this.
I still would like to know where that knowledge would have come from. They were living separate for 4 years, Jack coming to Riverton unsure of what will happen and Ennis just slams him into the wall and squeezes all life out of him. Remember Jack is shaking all over and can hardly talk (as acted by Jake G). Ennis acting like a starved animal - if i were Jack at that point i would say that's it, no doubt about Ennis' priorities!

And regarding this
If Jack had blown his top at Ennis' refusal.....and angry words were exchanged ...Ennis would have up and gone....bringing to an end BBM.
i would like to say that i am not so sure about that. Sometimes you just don't know where the breaking point of a person is. A person as stubborn and fearful as Ennis just needed time to ripe, with the right amount of pressure. But it seems to me that Jack had not applied enough of that pressure due to his own insecurities. Or to put it in other words, Jack was not confident enough to make Ennis believe / trust him.

Therefore, who says "Ennis would have up and gone?" if Jack had laid out him all the misery his decision would lead to and confidently assured him that they could make it, all despite Ennis' fears. We'll never know. That's one of the big IFs of this story.