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Author Topic: The Phone Call  (Read 210283 times)

Offline brokebackLJ

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Re: The Phone Call
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2006, 12:31:05 AM »
I completely agree. Anne Hathaway is exceptional.

Offline ImEnnisShesJack

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Re: The Phone Call
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2006, 05:36:23 AM »

Plus Lureen's costuming during the phone call was exquisite.

I love the smudge of nail polish on her finger - and the crappy nail tips (DIY???), the over-processed blonde flip and the dried-out lipstick - over red of course!
The billion silver-and-turquoise rings.  I didn't see if she still had the diamond horseshoe earrings in her ears yet....

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Offline pdxbennett

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Re: The Phone Call
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2006, 05:19:16 PM »
"I completely agree. Anne Hathaway is exceptional."

"In my opinion, Anne Hathaway's delivery makes perfectly clear that Lureen is lying, and that Ennis's premonition that Jack was fag bashed is correct."


Lureen is not stupid.  She had to know something.   Jack had 20 years of "fishing trips" with a man she never met.   Jack did not always display the best discression.  The rumors had to ever present. That is how small towns operate.  Anyone who is suspected of hiding something especially same sex attractions are not going to be able to move a muscle without someone observing and commenting.  I have lived in Texas as well as other parts of the south.  Those people don't miss a thing!  If they don't have the full story then they just make up the parts they don't know!

The other thing is her answer to his question about Jack's place of burial.  Jack had told her something about Brokeback.  He certainly would have told her about his bleak childhood as well.  She sent Ennis to Jack's parents because she did not want him coming to Childress.  If Jack's death had been as a result of a fag bashing than she certainly would not want him around to stir things up.  If she did not know or suspected nothing about what Ennis had been to Jack then there would have been some interest to meet Ennis.  Her reaction would have been differant.

Anne certainly has impressed me with her contribution to this movie.  She displayed a hell of lot more skill and talent than in that princess crap she was in.  I will be following her other choices in film work.


Offline Dal

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Re: The Phone Call
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2006, 10:21:26 PM »
"I completely agree. Anne Hathaway is exceptional."

"In my opinion, Anne Hathaway's delivery makes perfectly clear that Lureen is lying, and that Ennis's premonition that Jack was fag bashed is correct."


Lureen is not stupid.  She had to know something.   Jack had 20 years of "fishing trips" with a man she never met.   Jack did not always display the best discretion.  The rumors had to ever present. That is how small towns operate.  Anyone who is suspected of hiding something especially same sex attractions are not going to be able to move a muscle without someone observing and commenting.  I have lived in Texas as well as other parts of the south.  Those people don't miss a thing!  If they don't have the full story then they just make up the parts they don't know!

LOL!  That's small towns all right!  McMurtry knows them well too of course. 

Childress today has pop. 6900 and some-odd, if anybody is burning to know.     

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The other thing is her answer to his question about Jack's place of burial.  Jack had told her something about Brokeback.  [...]  She sent Ennis to Jack's parents because she did not want him coming to Childress.  If Jack's death had been as a result of a fag bashing than she certainly would not want him around to stir things up.  If she did not know or suspected nothing about what Ennis had been to Jack then there would have been some interest to meet Ennis.

I think she suspected to the point of certainty, as far as the fishing trips, by the time of the phone call.  Like you say, she was surely no fool.  She could not have been all that certain before Jack's death, I don't think, or she would have been angry enough to divorce him;  but by the time Ennis called, she'd had plenty of time to think.  Much of it spent under the hair dryer, evidently.  Anyway, she thinks it's all in place in her mind -- the fishing trips, the "friends" whose names and phone numbers Jack kept only in his head, who knows what else -- but she still believes Jack loved only her for the first four years.  At least she has that to hold.  Then,  boom, "We herded sheep on Brokeback one summer" -- posthumous dirty punch.  She's heard about the mountain a million times, but never about the shepherd.  And she knows that "summer" happened before she met Jack. 

I think her suppressed sobs from that point on express a very complex mix of emotions:  frustration (she can't throttle Ennis then and there),  loss of that final illusion of the initial four-years' love, humiliation (a fool all those years), and, still, grief over Jack.  I guess she feels like a fool, for grieving for a guy that played her for so long.  Patsy Cline needed on the sound track here! 

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Anne certainly has impressed me with her contribution to this movie.

I don't believe this scene could have been better, on either end of the wire. 


Dal
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Offline pdxbennett

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Re: The Phone Call
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2006, 11:14:56 PM »
Dal said Anyway, she thinks it's all in place in her mind -- the fishing trips, the "friends" whose names and phone numbers Jack kept only in his head, who knows what else -- but she still believes Jack loved only her for the first four years.  At least she has that to hold.  Then,  boom, "We herded sheep on Brokeback one summer" -- posthumous dirty punch.  She's heard about the mountain a million times, but never about the shepherd.  And she knows that "summer" happened before she met Jack. 

I think her suppressed sobs from that point on express a very complex mix of emotions:  frustration (she can't throttle Ennis then and there),  loss of that final illusion of the initial four-year's love, humiliation (a fool all those years), and, still, grief over Jack.  I guess she feels like a fool, for grieving for a guy that played her for so long.


Pdxbennett comments,  I just came from another viewing.   Three showings in a row were sold out so I had wait.  As I had spent many hours reading this board I had several things that I wanted to pay closer attention to.   This scene was one of them.   You are right about Lureen.   I had not paid close enough attention to her body language and delivery in my earlier viewings.  This one I did. 

This changes my perception of her.  She did not have send Ennis to Jack's parents.  She could have just hung up on him.  But ironically she did what Jack had done for twenty years.  She put her hurt feelings aside and comforted Ennis.  It did not work out that he could scatter the ashes but he did get the shirts.   He cannot deny the love signified by his blood on those shirts!  It was unpleasant to hear what the father had to say.  But I don't think Ennis would have "sweared" anything without having gone through that conversation.  Lureen, of all people, has given Ennis the the best comfort and what little resolution he is ever going to get over loving and losing Jack.  He would not have gotten there without her.

Offline Dal

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Re: The Phone Call
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2006, 07:47:55 AM »

She did not have send Ennis to Jack's parents.  She could have just hung up on him.  But ironically she did what Jack had done for twenty years.  She put her hurt feelings aside and comforted Ennis.

Damn!  Guess she did, didn't she!  Steered him towards comfort, anyway.
 
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It did not work out that he could scatter the ashes but he did get the shirts.   He cannot deny the love signified by his blood on those shirts!  It was unpleasant to hear what the father had to say.  But I don't think Ennis would have "sweared" anything without having gone through that conversation.  Lureen, of all people, has given Ennis the the best comfort and what little resolution he is ever going to get over loving and losing Jack.  He would not have gotten there without her.

Lureen!  I love this.   "No ma'am, we herded sheep up on Brokeback one summer" -- outing himself to Lureen led him to the shirts.  Really, you have to hand it over to Proulx for craftsmanship,  in plot detail as well as the rest of it.  I can't believe that such a fine story was made into such a rich film that we're still talking about it, for under $20 million.

Dal
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Offline David

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Re: The Phone Call
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2006, 03:00:22 PM »
This changes my perception of her.  She did not have send Ennis to Jack's parents.  She could have just hung up on him.  But ironically she did what Jack had done for twenty years.  She put her hurt feelings aside and comforted Ennis.  It did not work out that he could scatter the ashes but he did get the shirts.   He cannot deny the love signified by his blood on those shirts!  It was unpleasant to hear what the father had to say.  But I don't think Ennis would have "sweared" anything without having gone through that conversation.  Lureen, of all people, has given Ennis the the best comfort and what little resolution he is ever going to get over loving and losing Jack.  He would not have gotten there without her.

After seeing the movie again last night, it occured to me for the first time (too) that Lureen did not have to tell Ennis to go up to see Jack's parents. I'm not sure why she did that. Did she really just put her feelings aside for Jack? And/or for Ennis?
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Offline pdxbennett

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Re: The Phone Call
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2006, 07:20:37 PM »
[After seeing the movie again last night, it occured to me for the first time (too) that Lureen did not have to tell Ennis to go up to see Jack's parents. I'm not sure why she did that. Did she really just put her feelings aside for Jack? And/or for Ennis?

Maybe Jack's death has been the catalyst for Lureen to come back to herself.  There was no need for that mask anymore.   She had to know something about Jack.  Once she realized who Ennis was she chose to honor her love for Jack.  She was the injured party in her marriage but Jack was gone and she would have gained nothing positive in slamming Ennis.

Offline Dal

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Re: The Phone Call
« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2006, 08:38:54 PM »

After seeing the movie again last night, it occured to me for the first time (too) that Lureen did not have to tell Ennis to go up to see Jack's parents. I'm not sure why she did that. Did she really just put her feelings aside for Jack? And/or for Ennis?

Why indeed... it's hard to believe she'd do anything at all for Ennis' sake alone, now that she knows for sure Ennis had been the Other Woman all those years.  Maybe she does have enough love left for Jack, but I cannot believe it. 

A tentative guess:  On the phone, she is polite and correct but cold.  In the film, she barely keeps from crying, which she could not want Ennis to hear, but continues the conversation... maybe she's thinking more or less "My loser husband was two-timing me with this loser on the phone, and I'm about to cry -- if he's so interested in the ashes, let HIM cry over them on that miserable farm, and get off the phone," and directs him to Lightning Flat.

Wonder how Anne Hathaway or Ang Lee or Annie Proulx would answer the question.

Dal
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Offline Jack Nasty

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Re: Scene: The Phone Call
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2006, 01:07:50 PM »
In this scene, when Ennis is visualizing Jack's fate does Jack have a moustache? I think he does not. Is Ennis remembering his young, Jack being killed? I have seen this six times and I couldn't remember last night on the way home. Anyone?  ???
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Offline pdxbennett

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Re: Scene: The Phone Call
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2006, 01:46:32 PM »
In this scene, when Ennis is visualizing Jack's fate does Jack have a mustache? I think he does not. Is Ennis remembering his young, Jack being killed? I have seen this six times and I couldn't remember last night on the way home. Anyone?  ???

I tried to catch that flashback but the damn thing goes by in seconds.  It looks like Jack is in his Brokeback clothes but with his 80's mustache.  OR was it blood smeared on his lip?   

We may have to wait for the DVD and do some freeze framing.

Offline brokebackLJ

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Re: Scene: The Phone Call
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2006, 02:29:50 PM »
I'll check it out today...going to see it for time #5. YAY.

Offline kappadappa

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Re: Scene: The Phone Call
« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2006, 11:51:24 PM »
I have a different take than what's being discussed here about Lureen.  I don't think she knows about Jack and Ennis at all.  Small towns do gossip, but they would not tell her that her husband is gay.  They would say it behind her back, but she probably wouldn't find out.  And, as Jack says, they could do their marriage over the phone.  They are more and more distant.  And she doesn't seem to have any clue earlier when she mumbles about it not being fair that Jack has to drive so far and Ennis never comes down.

Along that line, it makes sense that she would send Ennis to Jack's parents' place.  She understands that Ennis can't travel as far as Texas in his truck, so she sends him to Lightning Flat.  Plus, she's never met this man.  She's not likely to invite a stranger to drive 14 hours - for what?

To me, Lureen's suppressed sobs are more about the husband she never knew.  The regret she has over the fact that they drifted apart.  She doesn't even know where his favorite place in the world is.  That's got to hurt.

Dramatically, it makes more sense to me that one wife would know and one would not.  It reflects the real world.  There are many women who have no idea that the man they've married is gay.  Lureen is savvy about business, but not about the man right under her nose.  Tragic and true.
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Offline Dal

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Re: Scene: The Phone Call
« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2006, 12:48:37 AM »
WOMEN POSTERS NEEDED!!!!!

To me, Lureen's suppressed sobs are more about the husband she never knew.  The regret she has over the fact that they drifted apart.  She doesn't even know where his favorite place in the world is.  That's got to hurt.

Dramatically, it makes more sense to me that one wife would know and one would not.  It reflects the real world.  There are many women who have no idea that the man they've married is gay.  Lureen is savvy about business, but not about the man right under her nose.  Tragic and true.

Well, here we are, a bunch of men, getting opposite readings about what Lureen knew and thought.  Maybe we could use some female assistance.  Maybe from someone with some experience in life, maybe small-town or rural or Southwest or Western... come on, you know who you are.... 

Dal
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Offline In Tears

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Re: Scene: The Phone Call
« Reply #29 on: January 18, 2006, 01:51:51 AM »
I have a different take than what's being discussed here about Lureen.  I don't think she knows about Jack and Ennis at all.  Small towns do gossip, but they would not tell her that her husband is gay.  They would say it behind her back, but she probably wouldn't find out.  And, as Jack says, they could do their marriage over the phone.  They are more and more distant.  And she doesn't seem to have any clue earlier when she mumbles about it not being fair that Jack has to drive so far and Ennis never comes down.

Along that line, it makes sense that she would send Ennis to Jack's parents' place.  She understands that Ennis can't travel as far as Texas in his truck, so she sends him to Lightning Flat.  Plus, she's never met this man.  She's not likely to invite a stranger to drive 14 hours - for what?

To me, Lureen's suppressed sobs are more about the husband she never knew.  The regret she has over the fact that they drifted apart.  She doesn't even know where his favorite place in the world is.  That's got to hurt.

Dramatically, it makes more sense to me that one wife would know and one would not.  It reflects the real world.  There are many women who have no idea that the man they've married is gay.  Lureen is savvy about business, but not about the man right under her nose.  Tragic and true.

Doesn't her mechanical recitation of the "death story" demonstrate that Lureen knew the truth?  While she certainly did not need to be overly sensitive to a stranger calling on the phone months later, her description of Jack's death sounded like an investigator's dictation of a clinical report.  It is a plain signal to the viewer that she is speaking a hollow lie.  That resolves it for me.

Her ever-so-subtle gasp is every bit as magical as some of Jack's faces (my favorites being his reactions to Ennis's bathing and Randall's come-on, as well as his approach to the clown.)
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