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Author Topic: The Phone Call  (Read 214897 times)

Offline happycamper

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Re: Scene: The Phone Call
« Reply #45 on: January 20, 2006, 07:10:50 AM »
She then says, still with a compassionate look on her face and in her eyes, "I suppose they'de appreciate it if Jacks wishes were carried out...

Then she changes again, drastically,  you can visibly notice her face drop to that hardened expression.... ESPECIALLY the expression her eylashes and eyelids make when her face draws back tight again, and she says "...about the ashes I mean.''

I always found that statement "bout the ashes I mean" significant in some way.  When Ennis goes to see Jacks parents,
Jacks dad repeats Jacks "wishes" he had conveyed about Ennis and Jack moving in there.  Jacks dad also told Ennis Jack had a crazy notion he was going to "leave his wife" and move up here with some Ranch neighbor of his.  Jacks dad didnt mind blurting this out to Ennis.  Had Lureen heard this same thing from Jacks dad before as well?  Is this what Lureen meant about Jacks parents appreciating his wishes being carried out when it comes to the ashes but not that they would appreciate Jacks wishes of leaving her to come back home and ranch with another guy!?

-completed viewing #5 today.
Danny, thanks for bringing this up! I also thought that when she said "about the ashes I mean" she was unconsciously thinking that Jack's wishes were to be with Ennis rather than her. Still dwelling on the information she has just received - that Jack's "favorite place" is where he and Ennis herded sheep back in '63. I don't have my book with me to see if this was added in the screenplay, but this type of dialogue is what makes the screenplay/short story so great and Anne Hathaway's playing of that scene is superb.

Offline sayitaintso

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Re: Scene: The Phone Call
« Reply #46 on: January 20, 2006, 07:29:49 AM »
Quote
"about the ashes I mean"
film version only


Offline Dal

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Re: Scene: The Phone Call
« Reply #47 on: January 20, 2006, 08:09:58 AM »
[...] i still find it hard to believe that he was innocently killed by a tire tho.. i guess that happens? it seems so unlikely, but i know nothing about cars or tires

Oddly, it was a possibility a few decades ago.  Things have been redesigned, and it can't happen w/ modern tires/rims.  It's in a post, somewhere on this megaforum.

Quote
[...] i'd like to add that my friend was found[...]

Really, really sorry gnash.

Dal
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Offline gnash

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Re: Scene: The Phone Call
« Reply #48 on: January 21, 2006, 01:05:25 AM »
[...] i still find it hard to believe that he was innocently killed by a tire tho.. i guess that happens? it seems so unlikely, but i know nothing about cars or tires

Oddly, it was a possibility a few decades ago.  Things have been redesigned, and it can't happen w/ modern tires/rims.  It's in a post, somewhere on this megaforum.

Quote
[...] i'd like to add that my friend was found[...]

Really, really sorry gnash.

Dal

thanks dal. it's been a while but this movie brought back the memory of my friend Tim, big time. i posted about his death in detail, probably the main discussion's "megaforum." ;)

it's comforting to know the rims of today's wheels fare better. i still like to think that in 1982 they were safe. (hoping jack's truck was a new model, if indeed it was an explosion.) just another reason to pay for triple A, besides being a total car klutz!


"Brokeback is about a lost paradise, an Eden."  – Ang Lee


Offline peteinportland

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Re: Scene: The Phone Call
« Reply #49 on: January 21, 2006, 02:35:36 AM »
"About the ashes I mean." I'm still not sure why Larry and Diana added this line. The phone call is verbatim from the book except that one extra line. Maybe Larry and Diana thought the viewer might forget or not connect that Lureen is telling Ennis to contact Jack's parent s about scattering his ashes on BBM. Or maybe they are implying something more. That line is still a mystery for me.

That scene is for me the heart and soul of the movie. I love this scene, and I always cry because of Ennis and his pain that he has to keep hidden while in the phone booth and on the phone with Lureen. What an awful way to find out the love of your life has died, especially for someone as private and as closed off as Ennis. By a stranger while in a phone booth in the middle of a public street. Oh gosh, it's heart breaking.

Offline gnash

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Re: Scene: The Phone Call
« Reply #50 on: January 21, 2006, 02:44:26 AM »
"About the ashes I mean." I'm still not sure why Larry and Diana added this line. The phone call is verbatim from the book except that one extra line. Maybe Larry and Diana thought the viewer might forget or not connect that Lureen is telling Ennis to contact Jack's parent s about scattering his ashes on BBM. Or maybe they are implying something more. That line is still a mystery for me.

That scene is for me the heart and soul of the movie. I love this scene, and I always cry because of Ennis and his pain that he has to keep hidden while in the phone booth and on the phone with Lureen. What an awful way to find out the love of your life has died, especially for someone as private and as closed off as Ennis. By a stranger while in a phone booth in the middle of a public street. Oh gosh, it's heart breaking.

pete,

i sensed that lureen means when she says, ""get in touch with his folks, i suppose they'd appreciate it if his wishes was carried out... about the ashes i mean..." that they might appreciate that his wishes were carried out about the ashes,,,, but not particularly if jack's wishes about the ashes were carried out by ennis (or by lureen for that matter).

--

also, it bugs me to think that jack's ashes were in two different places! half there and half somewhere else.  but it makes sense, as he lived half his life in texas, with lureen and his son, and another half, his secret half, in the grandeur of wyoming with his true love.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2006, 02:51:44 AM by gnash »

"Brokeback is about a lost paradise, an Eden."  – Ang Lee


Offline bbbmedia

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Re: Scene: The Phone Call
« Reply #51 on: January 21, 2006, 10:31:20 PM »
In my own private Brokeback, Lureen has put 2 & 2 together  long before Jack's death.

But she stays with Jack just to spite Big Daddy cause she won't give him the satisfaction of saying "I told you so"

That little flicker of a smile on Lureen's face at the Thanksgiving dinner when Jack orders Big Daddy to sit down and shut up shows that Daddy's little girl is one tough cookie with a mind of her own.

She picked out Jack to be her husband, and she will not divorce him just to please her fat assed Daddy.

Any thoughts here?

   
What Jack remembered and craved in a way he could neither help nor understand was the time that distant summer on Brokeback when Ennis had come up behind him and pulled him close, the silent embrace satisfying some shared and sexless hunger.

Offline peteinportland

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Re: Scene: The Phone Call
« Reply #52 on: January 21, 2006, 11:51:35 PM »
The thought about the divided ashes never occurred to me. That is potent. Jack does live a double life and will do so in death as well.

BBmedia, you may be right. I'm just not sure she connected the importance of Ennis to Jack before the phone call and hearing why BBM was Jack's favorite place. I think the whimpers give that away.

Offline Particle_Man6

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Re: Scene: The Phone Call
« Reply #53 on: January 22, 2006, 01:03:18 AM »
Ok, I have only seen the movie once, and this is a question for those of you that have seen it 1000 times and memorized each frame:

The gaybashing scene in the phonecall shows the younger version of Jack, so is thought to be in Ennis's mind (even if Jack was gaybashed).  Given that it is in Ennis's mind, who are the gaybashers?  Is one of them Ennis's dad? Is another his older brother? His and Jack's old boss? (Note: this is on the assumption that the gaybashing scene we see is the one in Ennis's mind, which, again, does not exclude the possibility that Jack was gaybashed).
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Offline gnash

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Re: Scene: The Phone Call
« Reply #54 on: January 22, 2006, 02:44:15 AM »
Ok, I have only seen the movie once, and this is a question for those of you that have seen it 1000 times and memorized each frame:

The gaybashing scene in the phonecall shows the younger version of Jack, so is thought to be in Ennis's mind (even if Jack was gaybashed).  Given that it is in Ennis's mind, who are the gaybashers?  Is one of them Ennis's dad? Is another his older brother? His and Jack's old boss? (Note: this is on the assumption that the gaybashing scene we see is the one in Ennis's mind, which, again, does not exclude the possibility that Jack was gaybashed).

LOL about the 1000 times... i doubt anybody has seen it THAT many times.... YET. :D

i dunno what's up with that scene. i'd love to get a hold of a screener and freeze frame that scene. somebody said they swore one of the bashers was monroe, and that maybe alma had sent monroe down to texas to get her revenge~! :o it could have been anybody, and purposefully so, since the scene was out of ennis' imagination. i never thought that it could have been ennis' dad. -- for all he knew, it could have been him...

what would be interesting to know is who played the bashers. they used the cinematogapher (prieto) to play the hustler, maybe these bashers were part of the crew. or maybe they were members of the gay rodeo association, who i hear were used in some of the rodeo scenes. if so, it surely would have been a challenge to play those roles.

bbmedia -- i felt she put two and two together. i'm sure she realized about jack's friends and the numbers he kept in his head long before his death. also, it seems that by mentioning that, maybe jack was down to mexico and had other "fishing buddies" besides ennis!!! after all, jack did love him some pudding ;)

it only makes sense that jack supplemented his diet of mexican food with local fare. most everybody gay here knows how easy it is to get a little steak on the side.... if you know what i mean. could be jack had more than a few numbers up in his head, even tho i agree with peteinportand that lureen didn't connect the importance of her husband's relationship with ennis until ennis told her about their history and the date they met. those whimpers that come do give it away; for the first time i think lureen realizes that ennis was in jack's lover longer than anybody, including herself.

lureen's character was awesome, in any scene. plus, i loved the jolted look on the "stud duck's" face after he sat down, after jack's threat to kick his ignorant ass into next week~! a priceless scene that propelled audiences down here in L.A. into fits of laughter.

"Brokeback is about a lost paradise, an Eden."  – Ang Lee


helen_uk

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Re: Scene: The Phone Call
« Reply #55 on: January 22, 2006, 01:19:07 PM »
I've seen stills from the gaybashing scene.  Jack is his older self - he has on a puffa jacket the same as or similar to the one we already saw him wear, he has the taller more expensive hat and he has a moustache.

I've seen the device used here a lot in films, where someone is narrating and a picture unfolds of what is being narrated.  We even saw it earlier in this film with Ennis relating what happened to the old fella.  Ennis narrating the scene, and we see the scene he is narrating.  In this scene (the phonecall) Lureen is narrating and we are seeing the scene she is narrating - only we see it as it really happened, not as she is telling it.

I just don't think that this scene is something going on in Ennis' head, it seems to be clearly a narration technique where we, the viewer, are being shown the scene as it happened.  Ennis of course is not privy to this and can only suspect.  And later, at the parent's house he is sure.  But we know definitely.

Offline BarefootBoy

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Re: Scene: The Phone Call
« Reply #56 on: January 22, 2006, 02:00:12 PM »

She picked out Jack to be her husband, and she will not divorce him just to please her fat assed Daddy.

Any thoughts here?
   

Sounds reasonable to me.

Also, in the scene where Jack is looking for his blue jacket (parka?), she says Jack is their best salesman,
in fact, only salesman (or words to that effect). As someone who is seen pouring over the accounts books,
she might not be inclined to kill the goose, etc.


But to get back to the topic at hand, does anyone else find it odd that Lureen ends her story of Jack's
death with "he was only thirty-nine years old." Especially as delivered by Anne in the movie, it sounds like
she was reciting from a newspaper obituary. "Jack Twist, 39, from Childress, TX, was found..."
I mean, she was talking to his "old fishing buddy", wouldn't you think she could have assumed Ennis
knew how old Jack was?

And he would wake sometimes in grief, sometimes with the old sense of joy and release; the pillow sometimes wet, sometimes the sheets.

Offline kappadappa

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Re: Scene: The Phone Call
« Reply #57 on: January 22, 2006, 05:19:26 PM »

But to get back to the topic at hand, does anyone else find it odd that Lureen ends her story of Jack's
death with "he was only thirty-nine years old." Especially as delivered by Anne in the movie, it sounds like
she was reciting from a newspaper obituary. "Jack Twist, 39, from Childress, TX, was found..."
I mean, she was talking to his "old fishing buddy", wouldn't you think she could have assumed Ennis
knew how old Jack was?



I think it goes along with the mechanical recitation of the entire speech.  Whatever her reason for it (dealing with grief, covering up her culpability, exhaustion of reciting the story) this story is a speech that Lureen is prepped to say.  It's almost like a talking doll - press the button and out comes the story of how her husband died.  Personally, I love it.  It's a brilliant insight into human behavior and how we deal with grief, and is open to numerous interpretations.  Perfect, like the rest of the film.
gay:  a guy primarily attracted to men, sexually (i.e., much more toward men than women) [Dave Cullen]

Offline bbbmedia

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Re: Scene: The Phone Call
« Reply #58 on: January 22, 2006, 06:02:13 PM »

lureen's character was awesome, in any scene. plus, i loved the jolted look on the "stud duck's" face after he sat down, after jack's threat to kick his ignorant ass into next week~! a priceless scene that propelled audiences down here in L.A. into fits of laughter.

The scene got a huge round of applause the second time I saw it in NY--with about 2\3 of the audience composed of women seeing Brokeback with other women

Maybe these ladies wish some boyfriend\husband\significant other had said those lines to their Big Daddy at a family Thanksgiving Dinner.   

Or maybe they wished they'd told the old bird off themselves  ;)
What Jack remembered and craved in a way he could neither help nor understand was the time that distant summer on Brokeback when Ennis had come up behind him and pulled him close, the silent embrace satisfying some shared and sexless hunger.

Offline Vinnie Z

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Re: Scene: The Phone Call
« Reply #59 on: January 22, 2006, 07:33:36 PM »
From a woman's point of view, I believe most definately, she knew who Ennis was. She suspected and knew for sure when he told her about herding sheep in 1963.  She is portrayed as an intellegent woman and all but the most dull woman would know or suspect that her husband had another love. She knew that he ( Ennis) had been this special person. She prpbably knew that at least Jack's mother would accept him.