The Ultimate Brokeback Forum

Author Topic: The Phone Call  (Read 214896 times)

Offline Particle_Man6

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Re: Scene: The Phone Call
« Reply #60 on: January 22, 2006, 08:24:34 PM »
I've seen stills from the gaybashing scene.  Jack is his older self - he has on a puffa jacket the same as or similar to the one we already saw him wear, he has the taller more expensive hat and he has a moustache.

And another beautiful theory is slain by brutal facts.  :)

So are the gaybashers anyone we have seen elsewhere in the movie?  I have heard of a "Randall as a potential basher luring Jack out" theory, but of course it could just be three people that find out and decide to kill Jack.
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Offline kaboyz

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Re: Scene: The Phone Call
« Reply #61 on: January 23, 2006, 12:49:28 PM »
I think it during their phone conversation, Ennis and Jack's relationship definitely clicked for Lureen once Ennis said "no ma'am" and he explains what BBM was...I think this was Ennis pouring out his heart and admission...finally admitting out loud about his and Jack's relationship. 

Jack lived two separate lives, one with Lureen and one with Ennis, so I think Lureen is entitled to the half of Jack ashes.  I believe Lureen recognizes that Ennis is entitled to the other half of Jack's ashes...but ultimately it is up to Jack's parents if Jack's wishes were followed out.   

I am sure they'd appreciate Jack's wishes being' carried out"....long pause..."About the ashes I mean".  I am guessing she just wanted to acknowledge Jack's wish to be with Ennis but at the same time respected Ennis enough not to be blunt...I am sure at the same time this was hard for her to swallow as well.   
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Offline BarefootBoy

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Re: Scene: The Phone Call
« Reply #62 on: January 23, 2006, 12:56:18 PM »
So are the gaybashers anyone we have seen elsewhere in the movie?  I have heard of a "Randall as a potential basher luring Jack out" theory, but of course it could just be three people that find out and decide to kill Jack.

That brings up an interesting point. If Randall was shown in the gaybashing scene, how would Ennis know what he looked like?
He never met the guy, did he? He doesn't even know he exists until Jack's father hits him with it later on.
If it was Randall, would this suggest that the scene was real as opposed to just Ennis' imagination? (By the way, I've looked
at the scene frame-by-frame and couldn't make much out of it, except that the guy who actually wields the tire iron seems
to be clean-shaven.)

Someone else suggested Ennis' father was doing the bashing in Ennis' imagination. Do we know what the father looks like?
When Ennis is relating the story when he was 9 years old about his daddy bringing him out to see Earle dead in the ditch,
we never see his father's face.

And he would wake sometimes in grief, sometimes with the old sense of joy and release; the pillow sometimes wet, sometimes the sheets.

Offline Particle_Man6

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Re: Scene: The Phone Call
« Reply #63 on: January 24, 2006, 01:38:24 AM »
In the credits on imdb, there are entries for "mechanic", "grease monkey" and "assailant" if memory serves.  Could these be the gaybashers?  That would explain the tire iron, perhaps (if that kind of symmetry between Ennis's fear and reality exists).
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helen_uk

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Re: Scene: The Phone Call
« Reply #64 on: January 24, 2006, 04:18:56 AM »
In the credits on imdb, there are entries for "mechanic", "grease monkey" and "assailant" if memory serves.  Could these be the gaybashers?  That would explain the tire iron, perhaps (if that kind of symmetry between Ennis's fear and reality exists).

In the movie trailer it shows a couple of guys in a garage...so maybe these scenes were deleted at a later date.  Maybe we'll see them on the DVD. :)

Offline Alberta

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Re: Scene: The Phone Call
« Reply #65 on: January 24, 2006, 04:22:35 AM »
It would be GREAT if the DVD had BBM, the director's cut, with more scenes, more footage!

helen_uk

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Re: Scene: The Phone Call
« Reply #66 on: January 24, 2006, 05:01:54 AM »
Wouldn't it just!

I think I'd be a teensy bit disappointed if it didn't.  Some of the deleted scenes may go some way to explain the finer points of the movie that we can't agree on at present.

There is, of course, another two hours of deleted love scenes on the DVD between Jack and Ennis  ;D ;)

Offline jimmywa

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Re: Scene: The Phone Call
« Reply #67 on: January 26, 2006, 12:24:56 AM »
I was thinking after seeing the movie for the 5th time on Sunday and reading the book.  It's after Ennis visits Jack's parents that he is convinced that Jack has met his fate with the tire iron.  Jack's father says this year he was going to divorce his wife and bring up the ranch foreman to help with the ranch.  Divorce Laureen?  The speck of nail polish.  Could that be blood on her hands?  (Out, out damed spot...) Could the woman scorned have finally, suspicions confirmed, conspired in something unthinkable?  She was cold. Jack said early on that he was humping the ranch forman's wife and if Laureen or the foreman's husband caught him there were consequences... She knew how he died, but gives a carefully rehearsed tale of his demise.  There are so many conjectures, subplots imagined...  That's what makes this beyond Great, but cult worthy...This was just a thought or did I miss something...

Offline kappadappa

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Re: Scene: The Phone Call
« Reply #68 on: January 26, 2006, 12:31:26 AM »
The speck of nail polish.  Could that be blood on her hands?  (Out, out damed spot...)

Ooooo, nice one!  I noticed the speck, but never thought about it deeply.  Wouldn't it be great if it were a conscious Lady Macbeth reference!  Fascinating...

God I love this film.
gay:  a guy primarily attracted to men, sexually (i.e., much more toward men than women) [Dave Cullen]

Offline happycamper

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Re: Scene: The Phone Call
« Reply #69 on: January 26, 2006, 09:09:34 AM »
One difference between the story and script/film is that in the story Lureen says that Jack called Brokeback mountain "his place" while in the script/film she says that he called it "his favorite place." "His place" to me suggests somewhere that belonged just to him (and Ennis) and a place where he could be himself. I'm sure it was his favorite place as well.

Offline aintnoreins

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Re: Scene: The Phone Call
« Reply #70 on: January 26, 2006, 10:35:20 AM »
It just occurred to me that the shock & pain on Lureen's face when Ennis tells her "We herded sheep up on Brokeback" is probably twofold.

She realizes who Ennis is and what he'd meant to Jack, and that in itself is extremely difficult... but Ennis's admission also forces her to confront the (arguable) truth about Jack's death - that he was killed over his sexuality. It seems likely that in the time between Jack's death and Ennis's phone call, Lureen has managed to hold at arm's length anything she may have heard about Jack & Randall, and possibly whatever facts she did know about Jack's death, telling the cover story so many times that she convinces even herself that really, it was an accident. But then Ennis unknowingly brings it all back up for her; she can't deny the truth of it anymore.

Which is maybe why she concedes that final remark to Ennis and encourages him to go get the ashes. It seems like some combination of remorse, guilt, and compassion - I think she understands that a lot of what she and Ennis each in their way tried to give to Jack came too little, too late.
"and it's only doubts that we're counting on fingers broken long ago..."

Offline jdmdallas

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Re: Scene: The Phone Call
« Reply #71 on: January 26, 2006, 02:16:00 PM »
To me, Lureen's suppressed sobs are more about the husband she never knew.  The regret she has over the fact that they drifted apart.  She doesn't even know where his favorite place in the world is.  That's got to hurt.

Dramatically, it makes more sense to me that one wife would know and one would not.  It reflects the real world.  There are many women who have no idea that the man they've married is gay.  Lureen is savvy about business, but not about the man right under her nose.  Tragic and true.
Quote

I have to disagree. Here is the dialog again.

LUREEN

He use to say he wanted his ashes scattered on Brokeback Mountain, but I wasn't sure where that was. I thought Brokeback Mountain might be around where he grew up. But knowing Jack, it might be some pretend place where bluebirds sing and there's a whiskey spring.

ENNIS can hardly speak.

ENNIS
...No ma'am, we herded sheep up on Brokeback one summer...

This is Ennis telling Lureen that he was Jack's lover. Lureen doesn't know about her husband's favorite place on Earth, but Ennis does.  It's the closest thing to a confession that Ennis makes. No Brokeback Mountain wasn't make believe. Brokeback is a real place. Jack was there. So was I.  It did happen. We were lovers. It was real. And Jack loved me and I him. Wake up Lureen. That's the subtext, the gist of what Ennis is trying to get across and Lureen understands him. You hear her muffled cry. 

Offline Uclapeterg

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Re: Scene: The Phone Call
« Reply #72 on: January 26, 2006, 02:39:56 PM »
There is, of course, another two hours of deleted love scenes on the DVD between Jack and Ennis  ;D ;)

Give us all the outtakes and then some!  ;D

Offline kappadappa

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Re: Scene: The Phone Call
« Reply #73 on: January 26, 2006, 04:35:25 PM »
To me, Lureen's suppressed sobs are more about the husband she never knew.  The regret she has over the fact that they drifted apart.  She doesn't even know where his favorite place in the world is.  That's got to hurt.

Dramatically, it makes more sense to me that one wife would know and one would not.  It reflects the real world.  There are many women who have no idea that the man they've married is gay.  Lureen is savvy about business, but not about the man right under her nose.  Tragic and true.
Quote

I have to disagree. Here is the dialog again.

LUREEN

He use to say he wanted his ashes scattered on Brokeback Mountain, but I wasn't sure where that was. I thought Brokeback Mountain might be around where he grew up. But knowing Jack, it might be some pretend place where bluebirds sing and there's a whiskey spring.

ENNIS can hardly speak.

ENNIS
...No ma'am, we herded sheep up on Brokeback one summer...

This is Ennis telling Lureen that he was Jack's lover. Lureen doesn't know about her husband's favorite place on Earth, but Ennis does.  It's the closest thing to a confession that Ennis makes. No Brokeback Mountain wasn't make believe. Brokeback is a real place. Jack was there. So was I.  It did happen. We were lovers. It was real. And Jack loved me and I him. Wake up Lureen. That's the subtext, the gist of what Ennis is trying to get across and Lureen understands him. You hear her muffled cry. 


The beauty of this film is that the audience is allowed to read so much into the action, because so little is really spelled out in the text.  You're reading a lot of subtext into Ennis's line, and that's great!  But it doesn't make your interpretation the correct one.  I doubt there is a "correct" interpretation...
gay:  a guy primarily attracted to men, sexually (i.e., much more toward men than women) [Dave Cullen]

Offline Uclapeterg

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Re: Scene: The Phone Call
« Reply #74 on: January 26, 2006, 04:44:10 PM »
No, I'm right and everyone else is wrong. Yea Me!  :D

All kidding aside, I completely agree with you. I don't know if this film leaves you with more questions or answers.