The Ultimate Brokeback Forum

Poll

Were They Gay?

Yes
456 (65%)
No
30 (4.3%)
Jack was, Ennis wasn't
118 (16.8%)
They were bi
97 (13.8%)

Total Members Voted: 655

Author Topic: Were they gay? (Jack & Ennis)  (Read 891039 times)

Offline happycamper

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Re: Were they gay? (Jack & Ennis)
« Reply #60 on: December 27, 2005, 12:08:50 PM »
I don't think Jack is saying "I'm sorry" but rather "It's all right."

Well I have seen it three times, but my hearing isn't the best either. That would make more sense. Tonight I am going to buy the short story to screenplay book if Barnes & Noble has it in stock, and hopefully get more insights.

Offline WLAGuy

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Re: Were they gay? (Jack & Ennis)
« Reply #61 on: December 27, 2005, 12:10:13 PM »
I don't think Jack is saying "I'm sorry" but rather "It's all right."

Ack!!  No, you missed one of the most beautiful parts!  He keeps repeating, "It's okay."  He knows Ennis is struggling with his attraction to Jack, and is gently reassuring him.  It's another one of those "straight from real life" moments that still gets me every time I remember it.

Of course, come to think of it, "It's all right" would convey the same message, but I swear I remember hearing the words "It's okay."  That scene (which is not in the book BTW) had such a powerful impact on me that I would be surprised if I mis-remembered.  Damn, now I really have to see it again! (Like that's a chore?)
« Last Edit: December 27, 2005, 12:13:26 PM by WLAGuy »

Offline happycamper

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Re: Were they gay? (Jack & Ennis)
« Reply #62 on: December 27, 2005, 12:11:52 PM »
Ack!!  No, you missed one of the most beautiful parts!  He keeps repeating, "It's okay."  He knows Ennis is struggling with his attraction to Jack, and is gently reassuring him.  It's another one of those "straight from real life" moments that still gets me every time I remember it.

Well, I am seeing it time number four in a couple days, and will try to read the screenplay first!

Offline mountain boy

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Re: Were they gay? (Jack & Ennis)
« Reply #63 on: December 27, 2005, 12:13:39 PM »
I'm not sure about the "roll your own" either. To me it sounded more like a garbled "what's goin on?"

Offline WLAGuy

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Re: Were they gay? (Jack & Ennis)
« Reply #64 on: December 27, 2005, 12:14:35 PM »
And I haven't been able to find the damn screenplay at any bookstore here in LA so far!  It looks like I'll have to settle for buying online.

Offline Carl

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Re: Were they gay? (Jack & Ennis)
« Reply #65 on: December 27, 2005, 12:14:58 PM »
OK, my two cents... Did Jack love Ennis?....yes.  Did Ennis love Jack?...unquestionably.  So, it seems to me that while the question of whether these two characters were gay is somewhat moot...and counter productive (although entertaining I must say).  GLBT folks are asking, some demanding, that we be treated based upon the individuals we each are, and how we treat and relate to others in the community; and yet we are so fixated with trying to box two fictional characters into a cookie-cutter definition.  Does anyone else see the irony in that?  I mean, it does not matter a tinker's damn whether these guys were gay, Lutherans, druids, Native Americans, African Americans, Martians!!!  They were in love in a time and place where their love could not be... in relation to the society at the time, and could never get past that to be able to live a life together in peace and happiness.

Offline mountain boy

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Re: Were they gay? (Jack & Ennis)
« Reply #66 on: December 27, 2005, 12:17:58 PM »
I don't think Jack is saying "I'm sorry" but rather "It's all right."

... He keeps repeating, "It's okay."  He knows Ennis is struggling with his attraction to Jack, and is gently reassuring him.  It's another one of those "straight from real life" moments that still gets me every time I remember it. ... Damn, now I really have to see it again! (Like that's a chore?)

Definitely possible it was "it's okay" instead of "it's all right." I just don't think it was "I'm sorry"

A-a-a-and! At their last meeting, the Ennis Breaks Down Scene - THEY SAY THE SAME THING AGAIN!!!!  Whee!!

Offline mountain boy

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Re: Were they gay? (Jack & Ennis)
« Reply #67 on: December 27, 2005, 12:20:28 PM »
Yeah I agree wiff WLAGuy - instead of Jack saying "I'm sorry" (as if he is doing something wrong) I think he's saying "It's all right" (or maybe "it's OK") - he's comforting Ennis who is upset about a handful of things including being attracted to a man and maybe having been a little too aggressive in their encounter the night before.

I do still wonder if Ennis actually did say "I'm sorry" as he came into the tent the 2nd night - couldn't quite tell. Thoughts??
« Last Edit: December 27, 2005, 12:24:19 PM by wdj »

Offline WLAGuy

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Re: Were they gay? (Jack & Ennis)
« Reply #68 on: December 27, 2005, 12:23:45 PM »
GLBT folks are asking, some demanding, that we be treated based upon the individuals we each are, and how we treat and relate to others in the community; and yet we are so fixated with trying to box two fictional characters into a cookie-cutter definition.  Does anyone else see the irony in that?  

A very good point, Carl.  I do think, however, that it's a very big leap from our present situation to the ideal that you suggest (which would be wonderful if we were ever to achieve).  I see the recognition of bisexual men and women as a necessary stepping-stone to the ultimate goal you present.  Once those men and women who currently feel they have no choice other than identifying with either the gay community or the straight community (even if their actual behavior means they don't exactly fit into either) realize that there is a middle ground between the two (and I really do believe they are the majority, rather than the minority), then we will start to see a new definition of sexuality emerge -- one with softer, less defined edges.

Offline Carl

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Re: Were they gay? (Jack & Ennis)
« Reply #69 on: December 27, 2005, 12:31:43 PM »
WLAguy;  You are right, of course, I do tend to think of how things ought to be rather than how they are.  But a man's (or woman's) dreams should always exceed his grasp, for what is a heaven for.  The reality is we are all put into categoires; Blue State v Red State, Conservative V Liberal, East v West.  I just wish there were more room for folks in the middle...then maybe folks like Jack and Ennis (and I think we all know one or both, at some time in our lives)can just be happy.  I will keep dreaming.

Offline lightsrays05

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Re: Were they gay? (Jack & Ennis)
« Reply #70 on: December 27, 2005, 12:37:17 PM »
 I mean, it does not matter a tinker's damn whether these guys were gay, Lutherans, druids, Native Americans, African Americans, Martians!!!  

Well... except that ... they kiss each other, fuck eachother, love eachother, comfort eachother...

And THAT makes them GAY!

What's wrong with calling them GAY?

Just because they fucked women does not un-GAY-them make.

They were gay until the END!

"JACK I SWEAR!

...How I miss your raw SALAMI!"





Offline WLAGuy

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Re: Were they gay? (Jack & Ennis)
« Reply #71 on: December 27, 2005, 12:39:52 PM »
WLAguy;  You are right, of course, I do tend to think of how things ought to be rather than how they are.  But a man's (or woman's) dreams should always exceed his grasp, for what is a heaven for.  The reality is we are all put into categoires; Blue State v Red State, Conservative V Liberal, East v West.  I just wish there were more room for folks in the middle...then maybe folks like Jack and Ennis (and I think we all know one or both, at some time in our lives)can just be happy.  I will keep dreaming.

That's just human nature.  If everyone on the planet was blond and blue-eyed, was exactly the same height and weighed the same, people would STILL find a way to categorize each other.

Offline WLAGuy

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Re: Were they gay? (Jack & Ennis)
« Reply #72 on: December 27, 2005, 12:41:03 PM »

Well... except that ... they kiss each other, fuck eachother, love eachother, comfort eachother...

And THAT makes them GAY!

What's wrong with calling them GAY?

Just because they fucked women does not un-GAY-them make.

They were gay until the END!

"JACK I SWEAR!

...How I miss your raw SALAMI!"


Okay, now you're starting to be offensive.

Offline PetterG

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Re: Were they gay? (Jack & Ennis)
« Reply #73 on: December 27, 2005, 12:41:42 PM »
if you cannot fix it - you've gotta stand it
if you cannot stand it - you gotta fix it

Offline lightsrays05

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Re: Were they gay? (Jack & Ennis)
« Reply #74 on: December 27, 2005, 12:42:56 PM »


Definitely possible it was "it's okay" instead of "it's all right." I just don't think it was "I'm sorry"




I heard "It's OK!" But I had problem with their accents...

But he repeated "It's OK! It's OK!" from what I understood...

And when Jake Gyllenhaal says "IT'S OK!" why are you - on this big round Earth of ours - going to ARGUE???