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Author Topic: First Night in the Tent  (Read 575257 times)

Offline mountain boy

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Re: First Night in the Tent
« Reply #45 on: January 13, 2006, 07:20:08 AM »
But there's a fine line between friendship/comraderie and sexual partners.  Okay not so much a fine line as a gaping chasm.  Were their silent glares outside Agguire's trailer flirting or were they sizing up each other as summer co-workers?  Were the playful jibes back and forth about the skittish mare and the bad harmonica music and such teasing remarks to flirt? Or just to play "punch on the arm?"  It's hard to say for sure, given Ennis' stoic demeanor.  BUT when he pulled away from Jack's crotch, he did respond by turning Jack over, so maybe it was truly flirting.  IF that is the case, then I'll have to pay attention at this weekend's viewing (I'm bad!  5th time!) as there was a whole lot more flirting on Ennis' part......
One thing about it, the flirting is very carefully done so as not to be clear.

Just like Annie's writing!

It has to be surreptitious, or you'll get yourself killed. For all my protesting that Ennis could have gone along with Jack and been okay, I think flirting with a man whose story you don't know remains extremely dangerous even here and now.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2006, 07:43:10 AM by wdj »

Offline lauren

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Re: First Night in the Tent
« Reply #46 on: January 13, 2006, 07:37:24 AM »
I'm not sure I am doing this right, but here goes...Every one seems to be concentrating on Jacks motivation...lets not forget all the looks that Ennis gives Jack through out the first part of the film...the look when the horse almost throws him when they are getting the sheep...the look when it happens again on the mountain...the look when Ennis sees Jack way up on the mountain...you can tell Ennis is traveling on very different ground with this guy...he has opened a door that was bolted shut for years...when Jack makes the first move, the tent scene is one of the most realistically awkward, franticly impromptu sex scenes ever filmed...Ennis has had the feeling...lets not forget the line." You may be a sinner, but I haven't yet had the opportunity"...thats flirting at its most glorious.

You've done well, young grashopper!  You've brought a fairly fresh perspective to this thread!!!  Ennis did his fair share of "flirting" with Jack.  I hadn't really looked at it that way.  There were furtive glances and running jokes and so on.  But there's a fine line between friendship/comraderie and sexual partners.  Okay not so much a fine line as a gaping chasm.  Were their silent glares outside Agguire's trailer flirting or were they sizing up each other as summer co-workers?  Were the playful jibes back and forth about the skittish mare and the bad harmonica music and such teasing remarks to flirt? Or just to play "punch on the arm?"  It's hard to say for sure, given Ennis' stoic demeanor.  BUT when he pulled away from Jack's crotch, he did respond by turning Jack over, so maybe it was truly flirting.  IF that is the case, then I'll have to pay attention at this weekend's viewing (I'm bad!  5th time!) as there was a whole lot more flirting on Ennis' part......

There is much subtle noticeable flirtation in the opening scenes on BBM. Jack catches Ennis' eye in the opening scenes by the trailer as well, though it's still underground for him. On BBM, watch how Ennis gives Jack a very long look after he tries to settle the bucking horse, and that look of longing/interest/concern as he watches Jack high on the mountain. The exchange by the fire ("that's the most I've said in a year"): his expression says there's much more than friendship going on here. Also, watch the scene when he sits in front of Jack with his shirt off: he wants to get Jack's attention while Jack is fiddling with the can of beans. So much is said with body language and expression. And, yes, that comment about "I ain't yet had the opportunity.." Very obviously an invitation.

Offline 909dot

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Re: First Night in the Tent
« Reply #47 on: January 13, 2006, 07:53:44 AM »
I'm not sure I am doing this right, but here goes...Every one seems to be concentrating on Jacks motivation...lets not forget all the looks that Ennis gives Jack through out the first part of the film...the look when the horse almost throws him when they are getting the sheep...the look when it happens again on the mountain...the look when Ennis sees Jack way up on the mountain...you can tell Ennis is traveling on very different ground with this guy...he has opened a door that was bolted shut for years...when Jack makes the first move, the tent scene is one of the most realistically awkward, franticly impromptu sex scenes ever filmed...Ennis has had the feeling...lets not forget the line." You may be a sinner, but I haven't yet had the opportunity"...thats flirting at its most glorious.


You've done well, young grashopper!  You've brought a fairly fresh perspective to this thread!!!  Ennis did his fair share of "flirting" with Jack.  I hadn't really looked at it that way.  There were furtive glances and running jokes and so on.  But there's a fine line between friendship/comraderie and sexual partners.  Okay not so much a fine line as a gaping chasm.  Were their silent glares outside Agguire's trailer flirting or were they sizing up each other as summer co-workers?  Were the playful jibes back and forth about the skittish mare and the bad harmonica music and such teasing remarks to flirt? Or just to play "punch on the arm?"  It's hard to say for sure, given Ennis' stoic demeanor.  BUT when he pulled away from Jack's crotch, he did respond by turning Jack over, so maybe it was truly flirting.  IF that is the case, then I'll have to pay attention at this weekend's viewing (I'm bad!  5th time!) as there was a whole lot more flirting on Ennis' part......

There is much subtle noticeable flirtation in the opening scenes on BBM. Jack catches Ennis' eye in the opening scenes by the trailer as well, though it's still underground for him. On BBM, watch how Ennis gives Jack a very long look after he tries to settle the bucking horse, and that look of longing/interest/concern as he watches Jack high on the mountain. The exchange by the fire ("that's the most I've said in a year"): his expression says there's much more than friendship going on here. Also, watch the scene when he sits in front of Jack with his shirt off: he wants to get Jack's attention while Jack is fiddling with the can of beans. So much is said with body language and expression. And, yes, that comment about "I ain't yet had the opportunity.." Very obviously an invitation.

I think we are all on the same page...Ennis is so carfull with his looks...always taking a small one from under the hat to make sure the "coast is clear" then giving a little more. When he says the line about sinning, look at Ennis's face...he takes quick looks at Jack to make sure he hasn't stepped on any "mines" as he nervously kneads the stick in the fire...he is so nervous and I think its not even in his conscious thought that something may happen...but there is definitely something smoldering that the "hand" placement is like a gun shot for a horse race...all comes flooding out.
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Offline ottoblom

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Re: First Night in the Tent
« Reply #48 on: January 13, 2006, 10:27:27 PM »
And one thing I love about the morning after is the way Jack marches out of the tent and straight up to Ennis who's ready to ride off.  Jack's a little sheepish, but not afraid or ashamed.  That walk solidifies the two of them in my mind, makes me feel that it's more than just one drunken night, even before the second tent scene.

Offline Pierre

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Re: First Night in the Tent
« Reply #49 on: January 13, 2006, 10:57:31 PM »
Tent scene was jarring and made me a little uncomfortable at first. But in forethought i'm glad they got it out of the way at that point, so i could no longer worry about the anticipation of how they were going to deal with that aspect , and really allowed me to apprecitae everything else for an hour and 1/2.
I'm pleased they didn't make it any prettier then necessary. I also dont' think this was the Most important point in their relationship. i think this was the catalyst, but not what ultimately tied them to one another.

let's face it, they were heavily drunk , hadn't had sexual contact in weeks , 2 young men in their sexual prime, one with a fairly obvious sexual curiousity and another beginning to acknowledge a bond with his co-worker. I think the tents opens them to furthering their connection physically, but the true magic is in how they are with one another. They wrestle fight play take care of one another, Ennis found a closeness he'd never had before. Jack would never push him to do anything beyond his means, no matter how much he wanted he accepted him as is. And Ennis would never turn jack away or make him feel unwanted. What they so desperately were looking for in their lives.

Sex is clumsy, awkward and primal at it's earliest stage in a relationship. Especially for virgins. No satin sheets. no king sized bed. just 2 bodies that will clamor together until the key fits the lock. Sometimes thats the most alien, but the most beautiful.


Offline ImEnnisShesJack

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Re: First Night in the Tent
« Reply #50 on: January 14, 2006, 07:17:00 AM »
... but the true magic is in how they are with one another. They wrestle fight play take care of one another, Ennis found a closeness he'd never had before. Jack would never push him to do anything beyond his means, no matter how much he wanted he accepted him as is. And Ennis would never turn jack away or make him feel unwanted. What they so desperately were looking for in their lives.

Sex is clumsy, awkward and primal at it's earliest stage in a relationship. Especially for virgins. No satin sheets. no king sized bed. just 2 bodies that will clamor together until the key fits the lock. Sometimes thats the most alien, but the most beautiful.

Thank you for wording that so eloquently.  I had tried to convey that same sentiment in earlier posts in this and other threads to no avail.

These two had already bonded well before the drunken night in the tent.  And the sex, while I don't think it gratuitous in any way in this film, wasn't the primary focus.  There was a bonding, a pure love between these two characters.  The film was really focusing on that bond and their reactions to and dealings with it over the years.

Thanks Pierre!!!
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Offline shipwrecked

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Re: First Night in the Tent
« Reply #51 on: January 14, 2006, 11:35:40 AM »
... Jack would never push him to do anything beyond his means, no matter how much he wanted he accepted him as is. And Ennis would never turn jack away or make him feel unwanted. What they so desperately were looking for in their lives.


Thanks Pierre!!!

But Ennis does turn Jack away and makes him feel unwanted, when Jack drives 1200 miles to see Ennis after his divorce.  Almost cruelly, Ennis turns him away.  He's so frightened of being found out, of his daughters figuring it out. And the nature of J and E's relationship has changed now, Jack  willing to risk all and Ennis closed up and reluctant to feel until he gets to the mountains.  A far cry from the abandon of the reunion.

Offline David

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Re: First Night in the Tent
« Reply #52 on: January 14, 2006, 12:04:08 PM »
And one thing I love about the morning after is the way Jack marches out of the tent and straight up to Ennis who's ready to ride off.  Jack's a little sheepish, but not afraid or ashamed.  That walk solidifies the two of them in my mind, makes me feel that it's more than just one drunken night, even before the second tent scene.

However, the look on Jack's face speaks volumes. I love the scenes after their first night signalling to the audience that "this is all not going to end well": Jack' grave look as Ennis rides off, the dark clouds over Ennis on the ridge, and the gutted sheep.
The huge sadness of the Northern plains rolled down on him.

Offline lauren

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Re: First Night in the Tent
« Reply #53 on: January 14, 2006, 12:23:52 PM »
... Jack would never push him to do anything beyond his means, no matter how much he wanted he accepted him as is. And Ennis would never turn jack away or make him feel unwanted. What they so desperately were looking for in their lives.


Thanks Pierre!!!

ut Ennis does turn Jack away and makes him feel unwanted, when Jack drives 1200 miles to see Ennis after his divorce.  Almost cruelly, Ennis turns him away.  He's so frightened of being found out, of his daughters figuring it out. And the nature of J and E's relationship has changed now, Jack  willing to risk all and Ennis closed up and reluctant to feel until he gets to the mountains.  A far cry from the abandon of the reunion.

I think this is a very affectionate scene between Ennis and Jack -- despite Ennis' constant fears about being found out, he's thrilled to see Jack and doesn't hesitate to give Jack a close hug in much the same way that he's uninhibited in the porch scene (though he cuts off the embrace because his daughers are there). He then introduces Jack to his girls and makes a point of saying to them, "say hello" to Jack. I felt it mattered to Ennis that his daughters are introduced to the most important person in his life; it was the way he introduced them to Jack, and I'm not sure why it struck me this way but it did -- they each give each other a long look.  Ennis and Jack don't move very far away to talk, and when they stand close together, both Ennis and Jack are looking at each other with barely contained longing and desire (Ennis glances at Jack's chest and vice-versa). I don't think this scene signifies a change -- Ennis has always feared the tire iron, but it does show that Jack probably realizes his dream of the two of them together probably won't come to pass (still he keeps trying). Still, in this scene, I wish Ennis could have thought of a way to keep Jack around for at least a few days.  :)

Offline mountain boy

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Re: First Night in the Tent
« Reply #54 on: January 14, 2006, 12:32:13 PM »
... Still, in this scene, I wish Ennis could have thought of a way to keep Jack around for at least a few days.  :)
Yep, this is Ennis's supreme opportunity and he just won't accept the gift. I want to believe that the girls would have been perfectly happy to get to know their Uncle Jack who was henceforth and forevermore to share life with their daddy.

I have seen it happen so many times in real life. I just can't imagine they wouldn't have loved their Uncle Jack too.

May we all be so fortunate as to recognize when that wonderful gift is being offered to us.

though PS oops this is not the first night in the tent...
« Last Edit: January 14, 2006, 12:34:13 PM by wdj »

Offline mary

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Re: First Night in the Tent
« Reply #55 on: January 14, 2006, 12:35:20 PM »

I think this is a very affectionate scene between Ennis and Jack -- despite Ennis' constant fears about being found out, he's thrilled to see Jack and doesn't hesitate to give Jack a close hug in much the same way that he's uninhibited in the porch scene (though he cuts off the embrace because his daughters are there). He then introduces Jack to his girls and makes a point of saying to them, "say hello" to Jack. I felt it mattered to Ennis that his daughters are introduced to the most important person in his life; it was the way he introduced them to Jack, and I'm not sure why it struck me this way but it did -- they each give each other a long look.  Ennis and Jack don't move very far away to talk, and when they stand close together, both Ennis and Jack are looking at each other with barely contained longing and desire (Ennis glances at Jack's chest and vice-versa). I don't think this scene signifies a change -- Ennis has always feared the tire iron, but it does show that Jack probably realizes his dream of the two of them together probably won't come to pass (still he keeps trying). Still, in this scene, I wish Ennis could have thought of a way to keep Jack around for at least a few days.  :)

This scene always starts tears for me. (I can't even listen to 'King of the Road' without tearing up.)  In particular after they hug and Jack's hand lingers on  Ennis's neck - trying to extend the the embrace, until Ennis moves it.  Just a tender gesture that is once again cut short by Ennis's fear.
(I know this thread is not specifically that scene - but we don't have one for this little scene-let)
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Offline lauren

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Re: First Night in the Tent
« Reply #56 on: January 14, 2006, 01:15:29 PM »

I think this is a very affectionate scene between Ennis and Jack -- despite Ennis' constant fears about being found out, he's thrilled to see Jack and doesn't hesitate to give Jack a close hug in much the same way that he's uninhibited in the porch scene (though he cuts off the embrace because his daughters are there). He then introduces Jack to his girls and makes a point of saying to them, "say hello" to Jack. I felt it mattered to Ennis that his daughters are introduced to the most important person in his life; it was the way he introduced them to Jack, and I'm not sure why it struck me this way but it did -- they each give each other a long look.  Ennis and Jack don't move very far away to talk, and when they stand close together, both Ennis and Jack are looking at each other with barely contained longing and desire (Ennis glances at Jack's chest and vice-versa). I don't think this scene signifies a change -- Ennis has always feared the tire iron, but it does show that Jack probably realizes his dream of the two of them together probably won't come to pass (still he keeps trying). Still, in this scene, I wish Ennis could have thought of a way to keep Jack around for at least a few days.  :)

This scene always starts tears for me. (I can't even listen to 'King of the Road' without tearing up.)  In particular after they hug and Jack's hand lingers on  Ennis's neck - trying to extend the the embrace, until Ennis moves it.  Just a tender gesture that is once again cut short by Ennis's fear.
(I know this thread is not specifically that scene - but we don't have one for this little scene-let)

Mary, it always moves me too. It's so heartwrenching when Ennis moves Jack's hand away from that tender gesture, a gesture just so natural for the two of them. Jack crying in the truck with a "A love that will never grow old" playing in the background always gets to me too.

Offline 909dot

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Re: First Night in the Tent
« Reply #57 on: January 14, 2006, 06:30:17 PM »

I think this is a very affectionate scene between Ennis and Jack -- despite Ennis' constant fears about being found out, he's thrilled to see Jack and doesn't hesitate to give Jack a close hug in much the same way that he's uninhibited in the porch scene (though he cuts off the embrace because his daughters are there). He then introduces Jack to his girls and makes a point of saying to them, "say hello" to Jack. I felt it mattered to Ennis that his daughters are introduced to the most important person in his life; it was the way he introduced them to Jack, and I'm not sure why it struck me this way but it did -- they each give each other a long look.  Ennis and Jack don't move very far away to talk, and when they stand close together, both Ennis and Jack are looking at each other with barely contained longing and desire (Ennis glances at Jack's chest and vice-versa). I don't think this scene signifies a change -- Ennis has always feared the tire iron, but it does show that Jack probably realizes his dream of the two of them together probably won't come to pass (still he keeps trying). Still, in this scene, I wish Ennis could have thought of a way to keep Jack around for at least a few days.  :)

This scene always starts tears for me. (I can't even listen to 'King of the Road' without tearing up.)  In particular after they hug and Jack's hand lingers on  Ennis's neck - trying to extend the the embrace, until Ennis moves it.  Just a tender gesture that is once again cut short by Ennis's fear.
(I know this thread is not specifically that scene - but we don't have one for this little scene-let)

Mary, it always moves me too. It's so heartwrenching when Ennis moves Jack's hand away from that tender gesture, a gesture just so natural for the two of them. Jack crying in the truck with a "A love that will never grow old" playing in the background always gets to me too.

...and what a great detail with the passing truck...forshadowing for sure...Ennis is so trapped in fear...

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Offline Pierre

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Re: First Night in the Tent
« Reply #58 on: January 14, 2006, 07:20:15 PM »
... Jack would never push him to do anything beyond his means, no matter how much he wanted he accepted him as is. And Ennis would never turn jack away or make him feel unwanted. What they so desperately were looking for in their lives.


Thanks Pierre!!!

But Ennis does turn Jack away and makes him feel unwanted, when Jack drives 1200 miles to see Ennis after his divorce.  Almost cruelly, Ennis turns him away.  He's so frightened of being found out, of his daughters figuring it out. And the nature of J and E's relationship has changed now, Jack  willing to risk all and Ennis closed up and reluctant to feel until he gets to the mountains.  A far cry from the abandon of the reunion.

I was specifically refering to the time on the mountain that first summer. Ennis always believed there would be tomorrow with Jack, thats why he tried to raise his daughters teh best way he knew, he didn't invite Jack that time, Jack assumed that the divorce meant he would be more involved in his life. Ennis couldnt' do that because the marriage wasn't the stumbling block. Society was the stumbling block. Ennis would not have allowed Jack to drive all that way only to have to turn him back. Ennis Daughter and Jack were the only 2 people to show Ennis unconditional love in his life. He needed to appreciate them both.

Offline peteinportland

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Re: First Night in the Tent
« Reply #59 on: January 14, 2006, 08:52:51 PM »
I do realize in these scene threads that some scenes lead to a natural discussion of other scenes. That is perfectly fine as long as we come back to the scene in question at some point fairly quickly in the conversation. It is not a perfect system, but you guys are all so great at staying focused and on point. I, for one, appreciate the astute observations and the very dynamic and respectful conversation.

I see from comments on this thread that we need a new thread for the two truck scenes (goodbye at summer's end and meeting the daughters). I will put this up shortly.

I wonder if they cuddle that night after the guns go off?