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Author Topic: Is society really as accepting as it claims?  (Read 376277 times)

Offline Lola

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Re: is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #120 on: February 13, 2007, 01:47:01 PM »
By Marty I assume you mean Rance (Osprey)! :D

Marty is Rance's partner. :-* :-* :-*


OMG I have always called him MARTY!! LOL

 
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Offline Lola

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Re: is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #121 on: February 13, 2007, 01:49:03 PM »
So dragging it back to the main discussion, society is not going to have a hairy fit over him being straight but what do you think the repercussions of him coming out as gay or bisexual would be? My guess is not overly embracing.

I don't know to tell you the truth. I presume you mean career wise? I guess I really haven't given it any thought, because I never thought he was gay! lol

As to what he said in the article, it really was straight forward to me (no pun intended):

Now that big sister Maggie is a mom, Jake Gyllenhaal admits he's been thinking about when he might have kids himself. But first things first he'll need to find the right woman.

"I'm definitely thinking about (children)," the 26-year-old actor tells GQ in its February issue. But the first responsibility for any man who wants to be a father, he says, is to choose wisely when it comes to a partner.

"Look," says Gyllenhaal, who is single, "the most important job for a man is to find the right woman. It's the best we can do. I thank my father for choosing my mother. She's wonderful in so many ways. And she chose well, too. I've noticed in life that the mother, first, has a primary job and as a father, your job is to pick a caring, smart, mindful woman."

 
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Offline lowcountrygirl

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Re: is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #122 on: February 13, 2007, 02:01:35 PM »
Gah - I wasn't going to get into this but anyway... I think what Jake says in the GQ interview is subject to interpretation and a very close read of the article suggests to me that he is not actually saying that he wants to get married and have children but neither does he say that he doesn't. I find him often quite evasive in interviews and it only rings bells because I spent a lot of my adolescence and early adulthood doing exactly the same thing. To a cynical reader it can come across as him nominally saying what he believes people want to hear without having to lie outright and compromise his own integrity.

As a lesbian myself, I find that he often answers in much the same way I do when I don't want to lie but don't want to come out, either, because of what I fear the reaction would be.

In fact, I have learned from him how to do that even better!
"Ya ain't got a problem, Hank... Yer justa l'il sad is all... 'S ta be 'xpected when bad stuff happens... 'n ya got a righ' ta be sad 'bout it...", Ed in Ed and Hank.

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Offline lowcountrygirl

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Re: is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #123 on: February 13, 2007, 02:06:07 PM »
We also have many members in long term happy relationships, 20 to 30 years. They live in harmony with their partners, and society is not bothering them in the least.

If they live in America, I doubt that's true, at least not 100% of those 20-30 years!


Well, my partner Earl and I have been together for 28 years now, and the people we're close to in the neighborhood know about us and are completely accepting. We've lived in the same neighborhood since 1984. We don't feel it's necessary to introduce ourselves as "Hellowe'reEarlandFritzandwe'regay", but let that fact come out naturally. With most people, not all but most, it's harder to hate an individual due to stereotypes when you know an individual rather than have just the stereotype to go on.


I'm so glad to hear that, Fritz!

But what you said about "harder to hate an individual" suggests you gave thought to how to live within this society that is not all that accepting. How best to be accepted in spite of it.

Jeanine
"Ya ain't got a problem, Hank... Yer justa l'il sad is all... 'S ta be 'xpected when bad stuff happens... 'n ya got a righ' ta be sad 'bout it...", Ed in Ed and Hank.

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Offline Kelpersmek

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Re: is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #124 on: February 13, 2007, 02:09:06 PM »
NO I don't admit that.  And although I would admit that there would be alot of black people in a movie about Dr. Martin Luther King or say Malcom X.  I don't expect that a movie about gay cowboys would have 2 gays stars and a gay director.  No I don't think that at all.

Well, I suggested you admit it was quite reasonable.  So, you think that a film important to black people would have a large number of black people on staff, but a film that has had a huge success about a gay couple would not have any more than an average number of gay people working on it.  Interesting.

Why?  What's the difference?  Why would a gay mainstream movie not interest gay people in the movie industry, but a Malcom X movie would be attractive as a project for black people in the industry?

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Heck I didn't assume Anthony Hopkins was a serial killer who ate people's livers?   But he sure did a good job playing one.

I don't know if you mean to sound patronising, but I don't think that anywhere in my post I suggested that movies are real life.
Playing Jack Twist doesn't make Jake gay or straight, or anything except an actor.  However, this is a film about gay guys, and the team behind it are being asked to put together a film which will follow the story faithfully and put across a convincing performance.  Would it not make sense that at least a few of the crew would be gay?  Why not one or more of the actors too?  You don't think that a director of Lee's standing can pick and choose films?  Why is it inconceivable that he may be gay himself, and that was what interested him in this project?  Surely it is possible. 

Again, what is the factor about BBM that makes you think that gay people would not have been interested in being part of the movie/crew?

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I don't know to tell you the truth. I presume you mean career wise?  I guess I really haven't given it any thought, because I never thought he was gay! lol

Well, I am guessing career wise.  Coming out probably has a more marginal effect on, for example, people's weekly groceries. 
So, when you saw a guy playing a gay cowboy, it never occurred to you he might be gay himself?

If we cast the net wider than Jake, what sort of effect do you think might be seen in the career of any actor who comes out?  Any impact?  None?  Change in roles? 

Offline lowcountrygirl

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Re: is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #125 on: February 13, 2007, 02:12:00 PM »
We're obviously seeing a marked geographical difference here. I'm wondering what makes the difference between where you are in Canada, where lowcountrygirl is in the US, and where I am in the UK?

I am in the lovely, ever gay-friendly SOUTH! ;D

And just today, I was outed at my PT job (I am not there but was called and told about it) by someone who found me on MySpace. One of the women there, after hearing that I was a lesbian, burst into tears. She is the one I was most afraid of telling!

She said to my boss there, who did know, that she will still love me but is worried about me now. She's a Christian and was shocked to find this out about me because I am, too, and she knew that.

Anyway, this is a place where they disparage Rosie and Ellen--this one woman says they flaunt their sexuality so she will not watch their shows.

Definitely not an "accepting" part of the society I live in...

Jeanine
"Ya ain't got a problem, Hank... Yer justa l'il sad is all... 'S ta be 'xpected when bad stuff happens... 'n ya got a righ' ta be sad 'bout it...", Ed in Ed and Hank.

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Offline Lola

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Re: is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #126 on: February 13, 2007, 02:23:57 PM »
Lowcountrygirl I am sorry to hear that, they sound very narrow minded. Thank goodness I don't know people like that.

Kelpersmek I went to see a movie (not just a gay cowboy movie) but to me a universal love story. It starred two young males that I was very familiar with, Jake and Heath. And a director that I was also very familiar with. Thus the intial attraction to the film.

I thought Jake and Heath played their parts well, but no I never walked out that theatre asssuming they were actually gay.

Could there have been a "little spark" between them on the set. I don't know, I have already said maybe. From everything I have read they were both pretty uncomfortable with the love scenes. After all they were intense.


Could there have been gay people on the crew, for sure. I am sure they got some "technical advice" on what it would have been like for closeted males living in the 1960's.


Honestly in the year that I have been on this board you are the very first person I have came across who has said that because it was a movie about gay people that you would assume the stars and director was gay. :-\

 
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Offline Kelpersmek

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Re: is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #127 on: February 13, 2007, 02:28:48 PM »
this is a place where they disparage Rosie and Ellen--this one woman says they flaunt their sexuality so she will not watch their shows.


Wow. 

Do they avoid all pop stars, male hunk-actors, cheerleaders, adverts, and lingerie stores too?  Or is heterosexuality OK to flaunt?
Also, not to labor the point but... the woman who reacted like someone told her you eat babies is a Christian and it is this that leads her to believe you are now going to hell for brazenly defying God.  I'm sure if you dig into her expectations a little she'll also believe that you try and lure children into lesbian orgies, and secretly worship Satan.

I knew a guy who told me he couldn't possibly be gay.  Because if he was, his parents would quite literally kill him, since they saw that as part of their duty as good Muslims.  Being gay would be a betrayal of God, an insult.  They would have no choice.

Offline Kelpersmek

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Re: is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #128 on: February 13, 2007, 02:32:49 PM »

Honestly in the year that I have been on this board you are the very first person I have came across who has said that because it was a movie about gay people that you would assume the stars and director was gay.  :-\


Well, scratch that to zero people because I never said that.

Please go back.  Re-read my post if you're unclear on this. 

For me to write "Is it quite reasonable to assume they *might* be gay?" is not the same thing as saying "I think everyone in that film was gay.  Even the sheep."

Offline Lola

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Re: is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #129 on: February 13, 2007, 02:35:35 PM »
reasonable to assume, yes that is what you said, I have never heard anyone say that until now.  But I did hear the sheep were gay! lol
 
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Offline merrobot

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Re: is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #130 on: February 13, 2007, 02:36:01 PM »
As to what he said in the article, it really was straight forward to me (no pun intended):

Now that big sister Maggie is a mom, Jake Gyllenhaal admits he's been thinking about when he might have kids himself. But first things first he'll need to find the right woman.
  That's not from the man himself it's the reporter's interpretation.

Quote

"I'm definitely thinking about (children),"
the 26-year-old actor tells GQ in its February issue. But the first responsibility for any man who wants to be a father, he says, is to choose wisely when it comes to a partner.

I can think about going to the gym or putting my cat on a diet or strangling my mother-in-law but that doesn't mean I am going to do any of those things.  Although other people may expect it of me  :D  A non-evasive answer might be "I'm thinking about what it would be like to be a father" or "I'm thinking I would like to have kids one day".

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"Look," says Gyllenhaal, who is single, "the most important job for a man is to find the right woman. It's the best we can do. I thank my father for choosing my mother. She's wonderful in so many ways. And she chose well, too. I've noticed in life that the mother, first, has a primary job and as a father, your job is to pick a caring, smart, mindful woman."

Here Jake talks about finding the right woman only in the context of being a co-parent.  That doesn't mean you have to have sex with them or marry them or have a romantic relationship with them (although you may well do all of those things).  Again a non-evasive answer might be "I would like to be with (marry) a woman who is caring, smart and mindful" and indeed he deflects attention away from himself and onto his parents so he talks even less about what having kids would actually mean to him.
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Offline Lola

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Re: is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #131 on: February 13, 2007, 02:41:12 PM »
Like we said we can interpet it any way we like.  I guess if he marries a women and has a child in the next year or so, we will know for sure.  Of course even then, some people will say he is just pulling an "ennis or a jack"

I am not sure what he could really do to convince people he was straight.  What if he just comes over to my house and has his way with me?   :P   Actually even that wouldn't do it, Jack did that with Lureen.

So I guess there is really nothing!!
 
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Offline merrobot

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Re: is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #132 on: February 13, 2007, 02:44:51 PM »
I am in the lovely, ever gay-friendly SOUTH! ;D

And just today, I was outed at my PT job (I am not there but was called and told about it) by someone who found me on MySpace. One of the women there, after hearing that I was a lesbian, burst into tears. She is the one I was most afraid of telling!

She said to my boss there, who did know, that she will still love me but is worried about me now. She's a Christian and was shocked to find this out about me because I am, too, and she knew that.

Anyway, this is a place where they disparage Rosie and Ellen--this one woman says they flaunt their sexuality so she will not watch their shows.

Definitely not an "accepting" part of the society I live in...

(((((Jeanine))))) I hope this woman doesn't make too many waves for you  :-\

So...what do you think it is about the "ever-gay friendly South" that - well - isn't?  (And I'll compare it to bonny Scotland for you!)

(Edited to remove a comment that was meant to be encouraging but was actually quite insensitive - sorry, Jeanine and I really do hope things are okay at work for you  :-*)
« Last Edit: February 13, 2007, 04:14:17 PM by merrobot »
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Offline merrobot

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Re: is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #133 on: February 13, 2007, 02:50:21 PM »
Like we said we can interpet it any way we like.  I guess if he marries a women and has a child in the next year or so, we will know for sure.  Of course even then, some people will say he is just pulling an "ennis or a jack"

I am not sure what he could really do to convince people he was straight.  What if he just comes over to my house and has his way with me?   :P   Actually even that wouldn't do it, Jack did that with Lureen.

So I guess there is really nothing!!

He doesn't have to convince me, Lola, he just has to say "I'm straight" or "Me and Natalie Portman are getting hitched" or "It's true that I was the filling in a Minogue sandwich and I have the polaroids to prove it" and I would believe him.   The fact that he's kind of dancing around the issue like Michael Flately on speed does make me a bit suspicious though.

And if he's coming over to anyone's house - I'm first in line!  ;)
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to more than one club
and I owe my life to the people that I love"
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Offline Lola

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Re: is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #134 on: February 13, 2007, 02:54:28 PM »
I wonder if Michael Flately is gay? lol 

I believe he doesn't have to convince you, but I think some other people on this board are not going to be easily convinced.

Like I said, if he is gay great, let me hear him say it and I am cool with it.  In fact I would probably become very protective of him, like I did with TR Knight.  I like him, I love the show and now I am on the look out for anyone who may bad mouth him.  :-*
 
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