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Author Topic: Operarararara -Opera fans, why is it important to us - what about a BBM opera?  (Read 54808 times)

Offline Nax

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Milo thanks for that - I feel a little more educated on the subject.  Do you think that the physical size and formation of the human vocal cords also determies what the different faches can deliver?  I have no fav. register I think I'm drawn towards sopranos because of the colortura "uno poco voce fa" is a a good example, however a basso profundo can make my toes curl.  ;)

Offline milomorris

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Milo thanks for that - I feel a little more educated on the subject.  Do you think that the physical size and formation of the human vocal cords also determies what the different faches can deliver?

For sure. That is mostly what determines whether a voice will be a tenor, baritone, or bass. Its a combination of the length of the muscles that make up the vocal folds, and also their thickness. My teacher tells me that as a bass, my vocal folds are about the length of the diameter of a quarter (US$).


however a basso profundo can make my toes curl.  ;)

Come a little closer so I can hum "Ol' Man River" in your ear. >:D >:D
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Offline Dal

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Jesse Norman used to do a fair imitation of Paul Robeson when she'd sing "Deep River" for an encore.  Quite surprising.
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Offline Dal

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Say - What about a final aria for Ennis to close the opera a la Baby Doe?  I.E.  He and the trailer age visibly as the aria progresses.  And the aria takes him from acute grief to some sort of resignation.  Sort of like having the prologue at the end of the opera.  At the end, you just hear the wind.

The only problem with an aria for Ennis is he hardly talks.  Maybe he could just stand there and get older, and a Chorus of Sheep do the singing....
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Offline milomorris

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The only problem with an aria for Ennis is he hardly talks.  Maybe he could just stand there and get older, and a Chorus of Sheep do the singing....

You know, the lack of dialogue in BBM has often been raised as a challenge to bringing it to the stage--operatically or otherwise. What I keep reminding people is that in opera, we are more often than not listening to arias/ensembles where the characters are not actually "talking," but rather expressing their inner thoughts. This way, the composer can write arias until the cows...er...um...sheep come home.

Milo
The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.

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Offline Rosewood

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Which opera did everyone last see / hear - mine was Tosca about a month ago - a small touring company who made a good job of it.  Pretty dramatic best "flying" Tosca I've ever seen at the end.  A large lady with no fear of throwing herself into the unknown  ;D a decent voice too.

Reminds me.
I took my young daughter to see TOSCA at Lincoln Center, her first opera, eons ago and her comment
at the end was: how come we didn't the body crashing on the ground? (Or words to that effect.)
Kids.
Bloodthirsty.  ;D

My favorite Tosca is Leontyne Price, oh she of the divine voice!
Honestly why couldn't God have let her live and sing forever?
Oh wait, she does.
On dvd. Although her early stuff, when her voice was at its most sublime, is hard
to come by, unfortunately.

As for BBM as opera. Yes. Yes and YES!
We posted about this a while back  on, I think, the BBM music thread,
and if anyone's interested, you can hit my name you'll come up with some
comments made then which were later used on The Daily Sheet.
So I am a MAJOR proponent of the idea.
Glad to see it and other things opera being discussed here and about.

My initial feeling then and now is that an opera of BBM is a natural.
I can see two maybe three fantastically strong arias sung by Alma and in the end,
on the phone, Lureen. Earlier, when Jack and Lureen meet, there could be a duo
divided by the length of the stage as she sings of her luck in having found this
rip-roaring cowboy prince and he sings (with the dancers in between) of his luck
in having come across this moneyed cowgirl princess, the answer to his privation.
He never need starve again.
Or so he thinks.

At the reunion, Alma reeling against what her eyes see but her senses tell her cannot
be true. I titled the aria: 'What have I seen?' 

The emotional turmoil of the Thanksgiving reveal would be a good duo moment
for Alma and Ennis.

Later Lureen on the phone with Ennis.

On the mountain:
Jack can fully give voice to Water Walking Jesus written in operatic style.

Ennis will have his moment after the FNIT when he realizes the enormity of what
has occurred. A self directed aria meant only for his ears. Then a little later, the "One shot
thing..." (Is aria the right term for the male tenor singing alone? I forget...)

Later Jack in the Dozey Embrace scene can break our hearts once again. This must be
ALL about longing. Think how beautiful it would be.

I can envision Jack and Ennis singing duos merely because opera is not about realism
at all. And in the end, the famous "I swear...." Clutching the shirts.
Not a dry eye in the house.
Oh if only the right composer could be found, willing to take this on.
I can only dream.



"Tut, tut, child," said the Duchess.
"Everything's got a moral if only you can find it."
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Offline michaelflanagansf

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The only problem with an aria for Ennis is he hardly talks.  Maybe he could just stand there and get older, and a Chorus of Sheep do the singing....

Well, see...now we're back to the 20th century works.... ;) :D >:D
I do my thing, & you do your thing. I am not in this world to live up to your expectations, and you are not in this world to live up to mine. You are you and I am I, and if by chance we find each other - it is beautiful. If not it can't be helped.

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Offline Rosewood

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The only problem with an aria for Ennis is he hardly talks.  Maybe he could just stand there and get older, and a Chorus of Sheep do the singing....

Well, see...now we're back to the 20th century works.... ;) :D >:D

He doesn't need to talk.
Opera is mostly interior thoughts sung out loud.
Hence a real need to suspend disbelief.
We can all agree that Ennis thinks.
Right?  ;)

Truth to tell, this is a story of doomed romantic love and I just
don't see anyone in the current century doing it justice.

Of course, I could be wrong.
And since I cannot resurrect the dead...
21st century composer is what we have to deal with.
Or would, if ever this comes to pass.
"Tut, tut, child," said the Duchess.
"Everything's got a moral if only you can find it."
                                                  Lewis Carroll

Offline Lance

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Say - What about a final aria for Ennis to close the opera a la Baby Doe?  I.E.  He and the trailer age visibly as the aria progresses.  And the aria takes him from acute grief to some sort of resignation.  Sort of like having the prologue at the end of the opera.  At the end, you just hear the wind.

Sounds rather like the end of 2001: A Space Odyssey. :)
May the bridges I burn light the way forward.

Offline Dal

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Or would, if ever this comes to pass.
It will, if AP or her estate will let the  rights.  It's great material.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2007, 08:10:44 PM by Dal »
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Offline Zadoc

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Say - What about a final aria for Ennis to close the opera a la Baby Doe?  I.E.  He and the trailer age visibly as the aria progresses.  And the aria takes him from acute grief to some sort of resignation.  Sort of like having the prologue at the end of the opera.  At the end, you just hear the wind.

The only problem with an aria for Ennis is he hardly talks.  Maybe he could just stand there and get older, and a Chorus of Sheep do the singing....

  Dal,

  As I'm certain you know, there is no aesthetic law which states that characters in an opera based upon a literary work must slavishly follow their literary models psychological profile precisely.
Music history proves that libretists have at times take enormous liberties with any given literary work.
Ennis's operatic character does not have to be taciturn and sparing of words to truly convey the fear and anguish in his soul.  I'm sure a talented libretist could make the obvious extroversion of Jack Twist, and the marked introversion of Ennis Del Mar quite evident with merely the choice of words they speak in recitative, or sing in arias.  And of course, working in tandem with the composer, he or she could convey through their music the positivity or negativity of each!

  I must say that being an old opera buff from way back, sometime last Winter I had a flash that BBM would make a powerfully impressive opera.  I'm so glad to see others have had the same thought!!
  Ned Rorem is only 84 at present......, let's see, how old was Verdi when he composed his last opera
Falstaff....., right, he was 80. 
  Anybody got Ned's cell #...... ;D

  Seriously, I think its a smashing idea, and I'm sure if we brokies put our minds to it, we could make it a reality!  Witness the miracle of "Beyond Brokeback"!

  Zadoc
 

Offline Dal

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... a talented libretist could make the obvious extroversion of Jack Twist, and the marked introversion of Ennis Del Mar quite evident with merely the choice of words they speak in recitative, or sing in arias.  And of course, working in tandem with the composer, he or she could convey through their music the positivity or negativity of each!
We'll need a really good team.  Are Metastasio and Montverdi still working?
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Offline jack

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truth to tell, this is a story of doomed romantic love and I just
don't see anyone in the current century doing it justice.

Of course, I could be wrong.
And since I cannot resurrect the dead...
21st century composer is what we have to deal with.
Or would, if ever this comes to pass.
what he said ^^^
"through Seneca Falls, and Selma, and Stonewall..."

Offline Dal

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Yes -- pity, that.  Still, there's always the hope that some nobody will undertake the project, and turn out to be at least a Leonard Bernstein.
Mommy, can I be on the kill list when I gwow up?
Of course honey, any American can -- thanks to President Obama!!

Offline michaelflanagansf

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Say - What about a final aria for Ennis to close the opera a la Baby Doe?  I.E.  He and the trailer age visibly as the aria progresses.  And the aria takes him from acute grief to some sort of resignation.  Sort of like having the prologue at the end of the opera.  At the end, you just hear the wind.

Sounds rather like the end of 2001: A Space Odyssey. :)

Oh...well there's an interesting notion - 'Brokeback Mountain' ala Ligeti's "Le Grand Macabre."
I do my thing, & you do your thing. I am not in this world to live up to your expectations, and you are not in this world to live up to mine. You are you and I am I, and if by chance we find each other - it is beautiful. If not it can't be helped.

Fritz Perls - A Gestalt Prayer