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Author Topic: SPOILER FREE--Cultural Impact of the film/book  (Read 32786 times)

Offline westexer

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Re: SPOILER FREE--Cultural Impact of the film/book
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2006, 10:04:12 PM »
The impact of BBM on gay men is of greater interest to me.  Certainly there will be some impact in the larger society.  The real difference, if any, will be on young men facing choices about marriage, about relationships, etc.  The real impact will be on bisexuals throughout our society.
We may never know the full impact because the battles will be fought in quiet desperation behind closed doors.  The impact will be within deeply religious families in smaller cities and rural areas.

sactopete

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Re: SPOILER FREE--Cultural Impact of the film/book
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2006, 10:43:11 PM »
Westexer, in my admittedly limited experiences of West Texas, I was impressed that while there is the conservative religious over culture that everyone pays heed to, yet individually there's a sense of live and let live and a certain respect for personal privacy in the small town I saw.  My partner at the time and I were open and honest with his family and many relatives.  For someone from California who went there expecting much worst, I experienced nothing but love and acceptance from those families I met.  And the Cap Rock winery outside of Lubbock had good wine.

Offline westexer

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Re: SPOILER FREE--Cultural Impact of the film/book
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2006, 11:10:34 PM »
Westexer, in my admittedly limited experiences of West Texas, I was impressed that while there is the conservative religious over culture that everyone pays heed to, yet individually there's a sense of live and let live and a certain respect for personal privacy in the small town I saw.  My partner at the time and I were open and honest with his family and many relatives.  For someone from California who went there expecting much worst, I experienced nothing but love and acceptance from those families I met.  And the Cap Rock winery outside of Lubbock had good wine.

West Texas is by and far a good place, I wouldn't have spent 22 years of my adult life here; but as with anywhere, there are exceptions.  For most here, I would say your words hold true, but for a small minority, it's not.  To me, it's not a bad place to be a gay man and live and let live is by and large the way around here; but what is said and professed to in public isn't always what's held to in certain families of certain religious beliefs. What's fine for someone else isn't always fine within one's own walls.

One thing I like about Lubbock is that there is no gay neighborhood.  We're right here in the middle of it all with everyone else.  MCC's on University Ave.  Some nights, Luxor has as many straight college students as gay people out dancing.  PFLAG and MCC have floats in the 4th of July parade. It's not the being gay to the community that causes problems, it's the being gay within certain families and organizations and the resulting double lives that exist because of it.

And Lubbock DOES have good wine.  Try Llano Estacado too.  if you like a dry, dry wine.  They make a great Fume Blanc.

Offline Scootmaroo

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Re: SPOILER FREE--Cultural Impact of the film/book
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2006, 06:23:03 AM »
In contrast, my favorite film of that time and for many years afterwards was My Beautiful Laundrette written by a gay writer, starred Daniel Day Lewis and expressed a completely different view of gay men.  Lewis made this film after appearing in Room With A View, so he wasn’t unknown.  My point is that there were other views of gay men at the time.  Yet, to this day, it’s rare for me to find other gay men who are even aware of MBL. 

Even into the 90’s there was a rash of increasingly ugly films written by straight writers, acted by straight actors which purported to be about gay characters: In & Out; Priscilla, Queen of the Dessert; To Wong Fu, Thanks for Everything, Julie Newmar; etc.  I don’t mean to incite a debate on gender stereotypes in film.

If I may use a racial analogy, I believe expression of homosexuality in  American entertainment is still in its Amos & Andy phase.  I’m hoping that BBM is the first light that a change is about to come.



(Forgive me, I thought I posted the following comment yesterday. Did I? Was it moderated off? Or did I just screw up the posting?  Anyway, here it is again, with a few changes.)

Sactopete:

I, too, loved My Beautiful Launderette. A charming, stereotype breaking film. I hate to say this, but I think only those of who were in our twentie's when it came out (1987?) remember it. Actually, The Birdcage, the remake of La Cage Aux Folles, came out almost ten later...in the mid-nineties. There also some other wonderful gay themed films that came out in that ten year time period: Parting Glances,
Beautiful Thing, Longtime Companion, and, I think the underated film version of Love! Valour! Compassion! .

I am wondering, though, why you lump films like Priscilla..., and In and Out, and To Wong Foo..... together as "ugly". I found none of them to be insulting or demeaning-just pure entertainment. True, both Priscilla and Wong has drag queens as main characters, but in both films they are presented as real people and not as stereotypes. Who among us HASN'T met people like the characters in these movies?  (though To Wong Foo...... was not so much a film about gay men as three, pardon the expression, fairy godmothers....). In both films, the villians were the straight people who refused to accept or understand them. As for In and Out, although it is a farce, I think it is fairly honest, albiet humorous and light take, on the problems of being a gay man in a small town.Yes, his town may be a little too perfect, and everyone a little too understanding of it all, but hey, its a comedy!  I fail to find anything "ugly" in these films at all, except in the way the protagonists were treated by some of the other characters. All of these films had their own cultural impact, though not in the profound way that BBM is making one. In many ways, it was the financial success of the above films that paved the way for BBM to made in the first place.

Oh yeah: other films to recommend to your str8 friends who liked Brokeback Mountain are Big Eden (one of my favorite gay themed films of the past few years), Latter Days, and the little known British import, Bedrooms and Hallways , which is a charming, whimsical little comedy about the fluidity of relationships.
" A Life lived in fear is a life half-lived"

sactopete

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Re: SPOILER FREE--Cultural Impact of the film/book
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2006, 08:43:55 AM »
Scootmaru, I appreciate your kind patience with my opinions.  Can you tell I’ve got my own issues around masculinity, gender, etc?  Guilty!  I’ve never been comfortable with stereotypes.  Never thought the camp personas people still used in the early 70’s were funny.  I can’t claim to be any paragon of masculinity, but that’s not the point.  I just wish there were more diverse images available in film.  And other recent films I enjoyed were Mambo Italiano, and Friends and Family and True North.  I also enjoyed Big Eden, thanks for the other suggestions.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2006, 08:55:08 AM by sactopete »

Offline Scootmaroo

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Re: SPOILER FREE--Cultural Impact of the film/book
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2006, 09:00:22 AM »
thanks, Pete! lovely response. Go out today and try to find BEDROOMS AND HALLWAYS. Actually, my local blockbuster had it. I think you will be pleasantly surprised!

Scott
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Offline Jack Nasty

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Re: SPOILER FREE--Cultural Impact of the film/book
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2006, 01:22:48 PM »
From The Australian:

No Christian hoorays for Hollywood

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,17866401%255E2702,00.html

Man, those right-wing religious fanatics give me gas.  >:(
FUR IS DEAD! for more inFURmation: http://www.infurmation.com/

patroclus

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Re: SPOILER FREE--Cultural Impact of the film/book
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2006, 11:40:24 AM »
In contrast, my favorite film of that time and for many years afterwards was My Beautiful Laundrette written by a gay writer, starred Daniel Day Lewis and expressed a completely different view of gay men.  Lewis made this film after appearing in Room With A View, so he wasn’t unknown.  My point is that there were other views of gay men at the time.  Yet, to this day, it’s rare for me to find other gay men who are even aware of MBL. 

Even into the 90’s there was a rash of increasingly ugly films written by straight writers, acted by straight actors which purported to be about gay characters: In & Out; Priscilla, Queen of the Dessert; To Wong Fu, Thanks for Everything, Julie Newmar; etc.  I don’t mean to incite a debate on gender stereotypes in film.

If I may use a racial analogy, I believe expression of homosexuality in  American entertainment is still in its Amos & Andy phase.  I’m hoping that BBM is the first light that a change is about to come.



(Forgive me, I thought I posted the following comment yesterday. Did I? Was it moderated off? Or did I just screw up the posting?  Anyway, here it is again, with a few changes.)

Sactopete:

I, too, loved My Beautiful Launderette. A charming, stereotype breaking film. I hate to say this, but I think only those of who were in our twentie's when it came out (1987?) remember it. Actually, The Birdcage, the remake of La Cage Aux Folles, came out almost ten later...in the mid-nineties. There also some other wonderful gay themed films that came out in that ten year time period: Parting Glances,
Beautiful Thing, Longtime Companion, and, I think the underated film version of Love! Valour! Compassion! .

I am wondering, though, why you lump films like Priscilla..., and In and Out, and To Wong Foo..... together as "ugly". I found none of them to be insulting or demeaning-just pure entertainment. True, both Priscilla and Wong has drag queens as main characters, but in both films they are presented as real people and not as stereotypes. Who among us HASN'T met people like the characters in these movies?  (though To Wong Foo...... was not so much a film about gay men as three, pardon the expression, fairy godmothers....). In both films, the villians were the straight people who refused to accept or understand them. As for In and Out, although it is a farce, I think it is fairly honest, albiet humorous and light take, on the problems of being a gay man in a small town.Yes, his town may be a little too perfect, and everyone a little too understanding of it all, but hey, its a comedy!  I fail to find anything "ugly" in these films at all, except in the way the protagonists were treated by some of the other characters. All of these films had their own cultural impact, though not in the profound way that BBM is making one. In many ways, it was the financial success of the above films that paved the way for BBM to made in the first place.

Oh yeah: other films to recommend to your str8 friends who liked Brokeback Mountain are Big Eden (one of my favorite gay themed films of the past few years), Latter Days, and the little known British import, Bedrooms and Hallways , which is a charming, whimsical little comedy about the fluidity of relationships.

Also, don't forget Ang Lee's own 'The Wedding Banquet'. It's funny, witty, warm and ultimately moving in a 'clash of cultures' look at traditional chinese family expectations versus western gay life.

Offline Alberta

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Re: SPOILER FREE--Cultural Impact of the film/book
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2006, 11:47:39 AM »
In contrast, my favorite film of that time and for many years afterwards was My Beautiful Laundrette written by a gay writer, starred Daniel Day Lewis and expressed a completely different view of gay men.  Lewis made this film after appearing in Room With A View, so he wasn’t unknown.  My point is that there were other views of gay men at the time.  Yet, to this day, it’s rare for me to find other gay men who are even aware of MBL. 


Whoa. I saw My Beautiful Launderette many times when it came out....it actually was the only other movie I can remember being obsessed with....I thought I had outgrown such filmic infatuations!

RolandC

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Re: SPOILER FREE--Cultural Impact of the film/book
« Reply #24 on: January 23, 2006, 07:57:39 PM »
It would not surprise me at all if the "double shirt" becomes the new gay uniform, or at the very least, the next 'hawt' fashion trend.

About a month and a half ago, my local newspaper ran an article about the film "Memoirs of a Geisha" and how "Geisha Chic" was going to be incorporated into fashion. Well, if it has, I haven't seen it. Of course, the scathing reviews the film received may have had something to do with it.

I think the runaway success of BBM took all fashion designers by surprise and they are scrambling to catch up. I can hear the screaming in the boardrooms of both fashion labels and advertising companies now -- "I WANT COWBOY!"

So don't be surprised if we suddenly get bombarded with "cowboy chic" in fashion and advertising. Remember that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

RolandC

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Re: SPOILER FREE--Cultural Impact of the film/book
« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2006, 04:14:02 PM »
Like I said...

MILAN -- The loudspeaker hailed out "private plane, gate 6, for Bali," and Valentino Airlines took flight in Milan's men's fashion season, a paean to the uber-rich and the first fashion show to make reference to the movie of the moment, "Brokeback Mountain."

Halfway through his show, Valentino sent out two cowboys, holding hands, in jeans, leather ranch jackets and Western hats. That the two models were notoriously active heterosexuals only served to add a clever in-joke to the image.

Several dozen shows into the Milan season and a designer finally makes reference to the movie of the moment, the gay Western, a somewhat circumspect approach given the fact that the vast majority of creative people in the fashion business, in particular the men's element, are gay.
It is to his credit that Sir Val at the very least addressed the phenomenon, a film that represents a significant change in societal attitudes and the victory of some form of tolerance for gay union.


The collection and show combined was a grandiose affair, a blast from the past when Milan designers could just blow money on the catwalk. Set in a VIP arrivals section, where screens announced Val's planes jetting into the Ginza or the via Condotti, the collection featured an exotic elite embarking on mega-deals in razor-sharp chalk-stripe suits or amorous liaisons in post- David Beckham gear.

The actual clothes were impeccably made, if caught in a time capsule. Another curious facet was the choice of imagery. A series of dense telephoto shots of airliners and private jets roared forth from the giant screen before which the models appeared.

But on closer inspection, most of the Lear jets, logos and aerodynamic shapes were a generation old. Just, unfortunately, like the clothes. They too, though often beautifully made, were not that new. That said, crocodile double-breasted pea coats, rocker trench coats and even a lynx blouson reeked posh luxury. And a cafe crème-hued Persian wool coat -- which Val's partner Giancarlo Giammetti wore to great effect to Donatella Versace's dinner Sunday night -- was the coolest whisper of luxury.

But people tend to forget that Valentino, though the elder statesman of the fashion industry, was always something of a rebel. An iconoclast who may have spent his time among the rich, Valentino was never constricted by bourgeois dogma. While other Milan colleagues skirted the cowboy issue, he, alone, cast his gaze.




(story and photo courtesy of gay.com)

Offline Yumasol

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Re: SPOILER FREE--Cultural Impact of the film/book
« Reply #26 on: January 26, 2006, 01:20:00 AM »
Speaking about cultural impact:
it was really hard to translate movie title to another language.  Brokeback has "fracture" meaning rather than landscape formation meaning.
Try to explain this is not just strange looking mountain! So I'm still scratching my head in translation....  :-\


Offline hw

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Re: SPOILER FREE--Cultural Impact of the film/book
« Reply #27 on: January 26, 2006, 11:44:48 AM »
From USAToday: Film spurs culture of gay cowboy jokes by Susan Wloszczyna

"Against all odds, a Western romance about two men, Brokeback Mountain, has corralled the cultural zeitgeist, making it safe for our national funny bone to come out of the closet."

Offline dogged

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Re: SPOILER FREE--Cultural Impact of the film/book
« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2006, 07:00:19 AM »
One impact on the wider culture, that has already taken place mostly in comedy, but could easily become part of the wider lexicon, is for the word "brokeback" to mean "fuck" between males. Example: "Boy, I'd like to brokeback him."

The word "fuck" has a powerful sound, owing to the fricative "f" sliding into the hard velar plosive of the "k." Names or words with "k" in them tend to sound masculine. Kirk, Rock, Cock. "Brokeback" as a word has a hard rhythmic sound to it, with each syllable starting with the plosive "b" and driving into the hard "k." What I'm saying is the word "brokeback" is ideally suited to mean the sex act between males, because it has all the power of "fuck" and more, in just the way it sounds.

I like the sound of language and after looking at the title of the short story for the first time, and knowing the theme, kept saying the word "Brokeback" over and over, simply because of its sound. I think it is exciting to have a new word for this.

Some other phrases in the film, may experience a revival in useage. I'd list them but it would constitute a spoiler.
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Offline SquallCloud

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Re: SPOILER FREE--Cultural Impact of the film/book
« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2006, 12:15:00 PM »
This is a carry over from the increasingly off topic "The Reunion Scene" thread

I think - and I don't want to put words in people's mouths - that the marginalization comes in when we bill the movie as a universal story tryiing to divorce the boys' homosexuality from the preceedings. Also, by having this movie 'cross over' into the main stream and everyone goes out of their way to show their acceptance because the two men in question behave like what our perceptions of manhood are. It kind of indirectly imply "Hey, at least their not swishy."

I don't think I explained that very well. My own thougts are that whatever gets you to see the film is fine. Once you're in it you will see men loving and your face won't melt off a la Raders of the Lost Ark so it's alright and it doesn't put gay men in the position of being a minstrel (W&G) and they aren't just banging each other like bunnies like (QaF). It's just just so lovely.