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Author Topic: How Brokeback Affected Me--continued  (Read 813928 times)

Offline Art

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Re: How Brokeback Affected Me--continued
« Reply #705 on: November 12, 2007, 04:02:19 AM »
[Your beautiful post really touched me, Nick.  My son also spent several torturous days (weeks actually) leading up to his coming out to me and his father before he left for college.  As it turns out, his fears were unfounded, but I understand how hard that was for him.  The whole family embraced him because he is still who he is and has always been and nothing could ever change the love we have for him.  As johnjohn and you said above, sometimes the idea is much worse than the reality.  
How right you are, MG.  Most of the anticipated coming out trouble is in our own head. But how come? It is my opinion that self-esteem is extraordinary low in gay men/boys at the time they come out'. What I experienced, and what you hear all around here, is that you know from a very young age that something is different with you, and you have a hard time adapting to what is expected. I remember an interview with Richard Chamberlain, who said: 'I have been an actor all my life', referring to the need to act 'straight' from very early on. Because you know that you are not what they expect you to be, you tend to internalize negative opinions about that what you are not allowed to be: gay. Resulting in a very negative self-image at the time when you want to or have to come out. And selective perception does the rest of the work: you think that everyone thinks so negatively about being gay. Ergo: you expect great trouble when you tell that you are gay.

Offline MaineGirl

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Re: How Brokeback Affected Me--continued
« Reply #706 on: November 12, 2007, 04:46:46 AM »
[Your beautiful post really touched me, Nick.  My son also spent several torturous days (weeks actually) leading up to his coming out to me and his father before he left for college.  As it turns out, his fears were unfounded, but I understand how hard that was for him.  The whole family embraced him because he is still who he is and has always been and nothing could ever change the love we have for him.  As johnjohn and you said above, sometimes the idea is much worse than the reality.  
How right you are, MG.  Most of the anticipated coming out trouble is in our own head. But how come? It is my opinion that self-esteem is extraordinary low in gay men/boys at the time they come out'. What I experienced, and what you hear all around here, is that you know from a very young age that something is different with you, and you have a hard time adapting to what is expected. I remember an interview with Richard Chamberlain, who said: 'I have been an actor all my life', referring to the need to act 'straight' from very early on. Because you know that you are not what they expect you to be, you tend to internalize negative opinions about that what you are not allowed to be: gay. Resulting in a very negative self-image at the time when you want to or have to come out. And selective perception does the rest of the work: you think that everyone thinks so negatively about being gay. Ergo: you expect great trouble when you tell that you are gay.

Thank you for that insight Art.  This helps to explain some things about our son that perhaps I did not fully understand before.
"It is no accident that we all lie nestled together in the curves of the universe.  We are tugged by the forces of the celestial tides.  Time folds in on itself and outward again in gladness as we spin around, each of us an utter miracle in a sea of tiny white stars."  Jamien E. Morehouse

Offline Art

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Re: How Brokeback Affected Me--continued
« Reply #707 on: November 12, 2007, 07:56:55 AM »
This helps to explain some things about our son that perhaps I did not fully understand before.

You sound like a very understanding mum, MG. Your son needs your support, especially in the self-esteem area. It took me at least 5-6 year and maybe more to feel really confortable with myself and my new identity and capable of facing the world without reservations (is that English?). A consequence is that it is extremely difficult to form good (love) relations with others, who are mostly in the same position. Liasons between two people with negative self-images don't work well, believe that. 

Offline MaineGirl

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Re: How Brokeback Affected Me--continued
« Reply #708 on: November 12, 2007, 08:13:57 AM »
This helps to explain some things about our son that perhaps I did not fully understand before.

You sound like a very understanding mum, MG. Your son needs your support, especially in the self-esteem area. It took me at least 5-6 year and maybe more to feel really confortable with myself and my new identity and capable of facing the world without reservations (is that English?). A consequence is that it is extremely difficult to form good (love) relations with others, who are mostly in the same position. Liasons between two people with negative self-images don't work well, believe that. 

I believe that.  I did not understand in his teen years how this wonderful, bright, incredibly talented human being could be so down on himself sometimes.  I understand that better now.

As for being understanding, I was brought up that people are people, we come in all different shapes, colors, sizes, orientations, etc. and that it's what's inside that counts.  We are all human beings.....  The gender of whom you fall in love with does not matter so much as long as you have the capacity to love and be loved in return. 
"It is no accident that we all lie nestled together in the curves of the universe.  We are tugged by the forces of the celestial tides.  Time folds in on itself and outward again in gladness as we spin around, each of us an utter miracle in a sea of tiny white stars."  Jamien E. Morehouse

Offline Nax

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Re: How Brokeback Affected Me--continued
« Reply #709 on: November 12, 2007, 08:32:06 AM »
This helps to explain some things about our son that perhaps I did not fully understand before.

You sound like a very understanding mum, MG. Your son needs your support, especially in the self-esteem area. It took me at least 5-6 year and maybe more to feel really confortable with myself and my new identity and capable of facing the world without reservations (is that English?). A consequence is that it is extremely difficult to form good (love) relations with others, who are mostly in the same position. Liasons between two people with negative self-images don't work well, believe that. 

I believe that.  I did not understand in his teen years how this wonderful, bright, incredibly talented human being could be so down on himself sometimes.  I understand that better now.

As for being understanding, I was brought up that people are people, we come in all different shapes, colors, sizes, orientations, etc. and that it's what's inside that counts.  We are all human beings.....  The gender of whom you fall in love with does not matter so much as long as you have the capacity to love and be loved in return. 

You are one wonderful mother Sue, he's a lucky boy.

Offline MaineGirl

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Re: How Brokeback Affected Me--continued
« Reply #710 on: November 12, 2007, 08:40:30 AM »
This helps to explain some things about our son that perhaps I did not fully understand before.

You sound like a very understanding mum, MG. Your son needs your support, especially in the self-esteem area. It took me at least 5-6 year and maybe more to feel really confortable with myself and my new identity and capable of facing the world without reservations (is that English?). A consequence is that it is extremely difficult to form good (love) relations with others, who are mostly in the same position. Liasons between two people with negative self-images don't work well, believe that. 

I believe that.  I did not understand in his teen years how this wonderful, bright, incredibly talented human being could be so down on himself sometimes.  I understand that better now.

As for being understanding, I was brought up that people are people, we come in all different shapes, colors, sizes, orientations, etc. and that it's what's inside that counts.  We are all human beings.....  The gender of whom you fall in love with does not matter so much as long as you have the capacity to love and be loved in return. 

You are one wonderful mother Sue, he's a lucky boy.

thank you.  When he finally came out to us I wanted to take all the angst away and make everything all right.  I realized I could not do that.  All I could do was be understanding/reassuring, and enfold him in all the love that I/we could give him.
"It is no accident that we all lie nestled together in the curves of the universe.  We are tugged by the forces of the celestial tides.  Time folds in on itself and outward again in gladness as we spin around, each of us an utter miracle in a sea of tiny white stars."  Jamien E. Morehouse

Offline Nax

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Re: How Brokeback Affected Me--continued
« Reply #711 on: November 12, 2007, 08:52:25 AM »
This helps to explain some things about our son that perhaps I did not fully understand before.

You sound like a very understanding mum, MG. Your son needs your support, especially in the self-esteem area. It took me at least 5-6 year and maybe more to feel really confortable with myself and my new identity and capable of facing the world without reservations (is that English?). A consequence is that it is extremely difficult to form good (love) relations with others, who are mostly in the same position. Liasons between two people with negative self-images don't work well, believe that. 

I believe that.  I did not understand in his teen years how this wonderful, bright, incredibly talented human being could be so down on himself sometimes.  I understand that better now.

As for being understanding, I was brought up that people are people, we come in all different shapes, colors, sizes, orientations, etc. and that it's what's inside that counts.  We are all human beings.....  The gender of whom you fall in love with does not matter so much as long as you have the capacity to love and be loved in return. 

You are one wonderful mother Sue, he's a lucky boy.

thank you.  When he finally came out to us I wanted to take all the angst away and make everything all right.  I realized I could not do that.  All I could do was be understanding/reassuring, and enfold him in all the love that I/we could give him.

Knowing that you have the support and love of the people that you most love in your life is beyond measure. Some of us have been fortunate to have that, I count myself among those.  Many of my friends have not been so lucky,  your son has the stability and love that every child should have. He may not tell you in plain words but I think if asked, he'd tell you that he loves you even more now than he did before he told you he was gay.  Sometimes what seems an  insurmountable obstacles such as coming out can actually be the thing that strenghthens us and brings us closer together.  Celebrate the fact that you can be honest with each other - it's a great feeling  ;).

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Re: How Brokeback Affected Me--continued
« Reply #712 on: November 12, 2007, 08:13:07 PM »
we come in all different shapes, colors, sizes, orientations, etc. and that it's what's inside that counts.  We are all human beings.....  The gender of whom you fall in love with does not matter so much as long as you have the capacity to love and be loved in return. 

Sue,

Heard an older county singer in concert last night say basically this same thing, ending it with, 

"....as long as you have that someone tell you 'I love you' before you go to sleep at night".

"Life can only be understood backwards. Unfortunately, it must be lived forward."
... Kierkegaard

Offline MaineGirl

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Re: How Brokeback Affected Me--continued
« Reply #713 on: November 13, 2007, 03:52:11 AM »
we come in all different shapes, colors, sizes, orientations, etc. and that it's what's inside that counts.  We are all human beings.....  The gender of whom you fall in love with does not matter so much as long as you have the capacity to love and be loved in return. 

Sue,

Heard an older county singer in concert last night say basically this same thing, ending it with, 

"....as long as you have that someone tell you 'I love you' before you go to sleep at night".



I like that, Linda.  Thank you.
"It is no accident that we all lie nestled together in the curves of the universe.  We are tugged by the forces of the celestial tides.  Time folds in on itself and outward again in gladness as we spin around, each of us an utter miracle in a sea of tiny white stars."  Jamien E. Morehouse

Offline Zudos

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Re: How Brokeback Affected Me--continued
« Reply #714 on: November 13, 2007, 03:30:38 PM »
Sue you wonderful wonderful lady.... :-* 
The Greatest thing is to love and be loved in return...

Or

To breakfast at PRADA

Offline MaineGirl

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Re: How Brokeback Affected Me--continued
« Reply #715 on: November 13, 2007, 03:50:52 PM »
Sue you wonderful wonderful lady.... :-* 

(((Wayne)))  :-*
"It is no accident that we all lie nestled together in the curves of the universe.  We are tugged by the forces of the celestial tides.  Time folds in on itself and outward again in gladness as we spin around, each of us an utter miracle in a sea of tiny white stars."  Jamien E. Morehouse

Offline Zudos

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Re: How Brokeback Affected Me--continued
« Reply #716 on: November 13, 2007, 03:52:38 PM »
Sue you wonderful wonderful lady.... :-* 

(((Wayne)))  :-*

Ahhhhh - And have we seen photos of this lucky lucky boy...? Are you allowed to post them?  :-*
The Greatest thing is to love and be loved in return...

Or

To breakfast at PRADA

Offline MaineGirl

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Re: How Brokeback Affected Me--continued
« Reply #717 on: November 13, 2007, 03:55:38 PM »
Sue you wonderful wonderful lady.... :-* 

(((Wayne)))  :-*

Ahhhhh - And have we seen photos of this lucky lucky boy...? Are you allowed to post them?  :-*

I haven't asked his permission....... 
« Last Edit: November 13, 2007, 04:11:56 PM by MaineGirl »
"It is no accident that we all lie nestled together in the curves of the universe.  We are tugged by the forces of the celestial tides.  Time folds in on itself and outward again in gladness as we spin around, each of us an utter miracle in a sea of tiny white stars."  Jamien E. Morehouse

Offline dahlia

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Re: How Brokeback Affected Me--continued
« Reply #718 on: November 14, 2007, 01:39:57 AM »

Being somewhat of a pessimist when it comes to human nature I fear that unless the subject is dealt with generation by generation then we will always be persecuted and prejudiced against. Of course, in some respects, things are better now but I believe it would be foolish to think that any good done now will live beyond the life of those who have come to greater understanding and acceptance. I wonder if our beloved movie hasn't done most of it's work on those already of an open and caring mind. It doesn't seem to have worked on the powers that be in Hollywood does it? Or has it???......


Andy, I'm somewhat a pessimist too, but I see things changing. I don't know if it's for greater understanding, or simply because, like Pasolini wrote (so long ago) what matters the most to our society is that we're all consumers so, why ignore the gay part of humanity that has money to spend?

I'm thinking for instance about the Dolce&Gabbana advertising campaign for Motorola (explicitly gay)



And a few years ago, not only BBM, but also 'La Quinceanera' or 'Little Miss Sunshine' couldnt be. I mean movies where 'normal' gay characters are shown. And the same happens in books.

Some 'friends' of mine even complain that there's too much 'gay stuff' around, on TV and so on, that gay has become trendy.....(I must use all my patience with them......)

Of course in the daily life of common people little has changed here....Though it's more common, in Milano, to see gay couples hand in hand. Too little? Better than nothing?

Am I OT?  :)
« Last Edit: November 14, 2007, 12:24:36 PM by dahlia »

Offline Bobby19in1963

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Re: How Brokeback Affected Me--continued
« Reply #719 on: November 15, 2007, 02:21:42 PM »
Hi! All:

Need some help.  You guys/gals are familiar with others on the Forum and may have more time than I at present.  Bite off what you can chew and I'll do the rest.  All I need is for you to shoot me the info, I'll put together an email and attach my article and make a plea for them to run it in their papers.

I have the word from Dave and Lydia about how I should go about doing this.  I need some help finding the Op-Ed Editors of the various papers we might approach with my article. http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/101942?cp=18#comments    BTW, I'm doing a video interview for the Tribune Website this afternoon at 4 p.m. and will post a link here to that when it happens.  Be thinking of me.  Hope I do it justice.

Anyway, here's the advice from Dave.  If you can help, or can pass it on to someone who can help, please do.  I want the article to be seen by as many Mormons and others as possible around our land and the world.  It has generated lots of interest in the past 24 hours and I want to keep it up.  The GOAL?  To help young gay Mormon boys especially find solutions to their challenges outside of suicide.  Another one hung himself Friday in a hotel room in Las Vegas, added to one who hanged himself the week before in Draper, Utah.  Every five hours a GLBT youth commits suicide.  That's OUTRAGEOUS!

Thanx! for your help.

Bobby

Bobby, I just talked to Dave about the best way to get word out about your story. This is his advice as a person who has written many newspaper and magazine articles himself.

• First of all, as the author, the pitch SHOULD come directly from you. They'll have much more interest than if the Forum or various friends send it on your behalf.
• Second, you should send the pitch to the op-ed editor or the feature editor specifically. Not the news editors that appear on our media list from the Variety ad. That list wom't help.
• Third, you (and your friends) do the research and find the newspapers, correct editors and email addresses. (Dave didn't say this, but if I were you, I'd ask various friends to help find this info for you in their local papers. That saves you from having to do so many.)
• Fourth, send an email to that person (one editor at a time - not a mass email) with the subject line "op-ed pitch: controversy on AZ Mormon coming out"  or something else that short. Then write one very brief paragraph describing your article and note that there have been x pages of responses to it and give them the link.
• Fifth, include your contact info, of course.

Dave says that's the best way to do it and it sounds to me like it's the most professional and effective way to go. I hope this helps and I hope the video went well.

- Lydia
A love that will NEVER grow old....