The Ultimate Brokeback Forum

Author Topic: Last Scene ("I swear" scene)  (Read 355421 times)

Offline ImEnnisShesJack

  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 4347
Re: Scene: Last Scene ("I swear" scene)
« Reply #30 on: January 15, 2006, 07:19:08 AM »
     I'm curious...what is the opinion of Alma Jr.s thoughts on her father...I got the distinct impression she knew about him...not details, but that she knew...but they both cant speak of it...for reasons of sadness, hurt, embarrassment...when she says "Yeah daddy, he loves me..." you can feel Ennis wanting to say..."I know what thats like because I was and still am In love..." But he talks about ranging on the Tee-tons...all the characters (except for Ennis and Jack,) just miss each other by a hairs breath....

Todd

I like it how he has to look away from Alma Jr and sort of tears up at that point.  And Alma Jr. senses more there than just parental concern.  She realizes she's walking in on a "moment" between Jack and Ennis right then.  She looks down at her cup, embarassed (?).
"And when he shall die,
Take him and cut him out in little stars,
And he will make the face of heaven so fine
That all the world will be in love with night."
~~Heath Ledger 1979-2008~~

Carol8159@yahoo.com

Offline lauren

  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 1353
Re: Scene: Last Scene ("I swear" scene)
« Reply #31 on: January 15, 2006, 07:39:45 AM »
I now can appreciate a consistent technique of significant juxtaposition, which is, after all, a technique used to assist interpretation as old as Homer. And a stunning example is the way in which Ennis' rejection of Cassie is interleaved between his last, dramatic confrontation with Jack and the news of Jack's death. Ennis is already engaged in rethinking the relationship in positive terms; in a deeply moving way, the jolt he receives from Texas does not stop the process.    

winter link: Interesting post and well said. I love this juxtaposition of their last confrontation with Cassie, and I think you're right about what it means. I saw it the same way. It brings another whole layer of meaning to the Cassie scene. Ennis is on his way to making a positive change with Jack, perhaps thinking about how to bring him either more into his life or to find a way to live with him.

Offline killersmom

  • AUNTIE
  • Administrator
  • Obsessed
  • ******
  • Posts: 83066
  • It's me.
Re: Scene: Last Scene ("I swear" scene)
« Reply #32 on: January 15, 2006, 08:21:40 AM »
     ...all the characters (except for Ennis and Jack,) just miss each other by a hairs breath....

Todd

My thought is that Ennis and Jack DID miss each other in a big way. The innate sadness that permeates the movie, only broken by the scant few times they allowed themselves to express their love, I think creates this MISS and stays with them from beginning to end. All the constraints against them, society driven and self inflicted, outward ones (social, sexual) and inward ones (inability to allow themselves the freedom to live openly, to express wholeheartedly their love for one another). I guess this harks back to the society of the time.
Nature has cunning ways of finding our weakest spot.
Call Me By Your Name

Offline 909dot

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 382
Re: Scene: Last Scene ("I swear" scene)
« Reply #33 on: January 15, 2006, 08:59:01 AM »
     ...all the characters (except for Ennis and Jack,) just miss each other by a hairs breath....

Todd

My thought is that Ennis and Jack DID miss each other in a big way. The innate sadness that permeates the movie, only broken by the scant few times they allowed themselves to express their love, I think creates this MISS and stays with them from beginning to end. All the constraints against them, society driven and self inflicted, outward ones (social, sexual) and inward ones (inability to allow themselves the freedom to live openly, to express wholeheartedly their love for one another). I guess this harks back to the society of the time.

True...I was speaking more of the fleeting summer when they connected in a BIG way and changed each other for a life time...they could have literally missed each other ...Jacks truck could have broken down...Aguirre could have been sick...Ennis could have missed the ride in the 8 wheeler...I don't think they missed each other because that strange cosmic "thing" was on there side for that one glorious summer where everything went gloriously right...

Todd
"maybe you should get outa there...move someplace different...maybe Texas."

Offline killersmom

  • AUNTIE
  • Administrator
  • Obsessed
  • ******
  • Posts: 83066
  • It's me.
Re: Scene: Last Scene ("I swear" scene)
« Reply #34 on: January 15, 2006, 09:18:31 AM »
     ...all the characters (except for Ennis and Jack,) just miss each other by a hairs breath....

Todd

My thought is that Ennis and Jack DID miss each other in a big way. The innate sadness that permeates the movie, only broken by the scant few times they allowed themselves to express their love, I think creates this MISS and stays with them from beginning to end. All the constraints against them, society driven and self inflicted, outward ones (social, sexual) and inward ones (inability to allow themselves the freedom to live openly, to express wholeheartedly their love for one another). I guess this harks back to the society of the time.

True...I was speaking more of the fleeting summer when they connected in a BIG way and changed each other for a life time...they could have literally missed each other ...Jacks truck could have broken down...Aguirre could have been sick...Ennis could have missed the ride in the 8 wheeler...I don't think they missed each other because that strange cosmic "thing" was on there side for that one glorious summer where everything went gloriously right...

Todd

In the end though, and this has been a big question for me after seeing the movie so many times, that "the connection in a BIG way that changed each other for a lifetime" is WAS IT WORTH IT? Ennis was so distraught in their last scene when Jack confirmed  that he had been to Mexico that he accused Jack of "making him like he was" and essentially keeping him beat down (not in a literal sense) but in that his life was like it was because of the love these two could not express in the "real world".
Nature has cunning ways of finding our weakest spot.
Call Me By Your Name

Offline 909dot

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 382
Re: Scene: Last Scene ("I swear" scene)
« Reply #35 on: January 15, 2006, 09:31:11 AM »
     ...all the characters (except for Ennis and Jack,) just miss each other by a hairs breath....

Todd

My thought is that Ennis and Jack DID miss each other in a big way. The innate sadness that permeates the movie, only broken by the scant few times they allowed themselves to express their love, I think creates this MISS and stays with them from beginning to end. All the constraints against them, society driven and self inflicted, outward ones (social, sexual) and inward ones (inability to allow themselves the freedom to live openly, to express wholeheartedly their love for one another). I guess this harks back to the society of the time.

True...I was speaking more of the fleeting summer when they connected in a BIG way and changed each other for a life time...they could have literally missed each other ...Jacks truck could have broken down...Aguirre could have been sick...Ennis could have missed the ride in the 8 wheeler...I don't think they missed each other because that strange cosmic "thing" was on there side for that one glorious summer where everything went gloriously right...

Todd

In the end though, and this has been a big question for me after seeing the movie so many times, that "the connection in a BIG way that changed each other for a lifetime" is WAS IT WORTH IT? Ennis was so distraught in their last scene when Jack confirmed  that he had been to Mexico that he accused Jack of "making him like he was" and essentially keeping him beat down (not in a literal sense) but in that his life was like it was because of the love these two could not express in the "real world".

I think everyone will agree this story of love is right up there with the best of Shakesphere...so in his words...yes it was worth it,,,"its better to have loved and lost than to never have loved"...there are always hurtful things that are said in lovers quarrels...and Jack and Ennis are not immune...there pain is as deep as their love...

Todd
"maybe you should get outa there...move someplace different...maybe Texas."

Offline killersmom

  • AUNTIE
  • Administrator
  • Obsessed
  • ******
  • Posts: 83066
  • It's me.
Re: Scene: Last Scene ("I swear" scene)
« Reply #36 on: January 15, 2006, 09:44:41 AM »
I think everyone will agree this story of love is right up there with the best of Shakesphere...so in his words...yes it was worth it,,,"its better to have loved and lost than to never have loved"...there are always hurtful things that are said in lovers quarrels...and Jack and Ennis are not immune...there pain is as deep as their love...

Todd

You're right Todd, and in the end the ONLY two who can answer that question is Ennis and Jack. That is true in real life relationships. I did not take as many risks in my life and have come to regret it in some ways. This story teaches us that.

I have given myself permission in this last year to finally take risks (this board being one of them...not a bad risk at all I must say) and I have to say despite the devastating situation leading up to this, it has been one of the most fulfilling years of my life. Sharing in this board has opened that realization up to me. Refer to my signature. :D
Nature has cunning ways of finding our weakest spot.
Call Me By Your Name

Offline David

  • Experienced
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
Re: Scene: Last Scene ("I swear" scene)
« Reply #37 on: January 15, 2006, 03:04:21 PM »
     I'm curious...what is the opinion of Alma Jr.s thoughts on her father...I got the distinct impression she knew about him...not details, but that she knew...but they both cant speak of it...for reasons of sadness, hurt, embarrassment...when she says "Yeah daddy, he loves me..." you can feel Ennis wanting to say..."I know what thats like because I was and still am In love..." But he talks about ranging on the Tee-tons...all the characters (except for Ennis and Jack,) just miss each other by a hairs breath....

Todd

I like it how he has to look away from Alma Jr and sort of tears up at that point.  And Alma Jr. senses more there than just parental concern.  She realizes she's walking in on a "moment" between Jack and Ennis right then.  She looks down at her cup, embarassed (?).

Yes, and she starts to tear up when she says, "Yes, daddy, he loves me." There's a LOT going on beneath the surface of the words.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2006, 03:06:04 PM by David »
The huge sadness of the Northern plains rolled down on him.

Offline bookgirl

  • Feet Wet
  • **
  • Posts: 31
    • My Live Journal
Re: Scene: Last Scene ("I swear" scene)
« Reply #38 on: January 15, 2006, 09:14:17 PM »
I saw BBM for the 5th time on Friday and I just CAN'T let go of this movie !!!!   When Ennis pulls the entwined, bloody shirts from Jack's closet and holds them to his face in a desperate attempt to find some remaining "sense" of Jack, my heart just stops.   Who would have thought that the romantic gesture of a lovesick 19 year old boy, trying to preserve the love and hope he felt that summer on Brokeback with Ennis, would end up being the one thing that would, 20 years later, bring some form of comfort to the only man he ever loved.   




Offline Vince

  • Feet Wet
  • **
  • Posts: 27
Re: Scene: Last Scene ("I swear" scene)
« Reply #39 on: January 15, 2006, 09:30:03 PM »
Who would have thought that the romantic gesture of a lovesick 19 year old boy, trying to preserve the love and hope he felt that summer on Brokeback with Ennis, would end up being the one thing that would, 20 years later, bring some form of comfort to the only man he ever loved.   





Beautiful.  And just the sort of thing I did.  Spent a wonderful afternoon on the beach with my own Ennis once.  He picked up a bunch of smooth white pebbles in the surf.  I still have them, 40 years later.
Tent don't look right.

TJ

  • Guest
Re: Scene: Last Scene ("I swear" scene)
« Reply #40 on: January 15, 2006, 11:07:06 PM »
The "Jack, I swear--" scene in the movie did not have the same impact on me as it did when I read the book.

Quote
When (the postcard) came -- thirty cents -- he pinned it up in his trailer, brass-headed tack in each corner. Below it he drove a nail and on the nail he hung the wire hanger and the two old shirts suspended from it. He stepped back and looked at the ensemble through a few stinging tears.

"Jack, I swear -- " he said, though Jack had never asked him to swear anything and was himself not the swearing kind.

Why cannot people understand what "swear" meant in this context? Ennis was not a person who would swear that he was going to do something, i.e. swear an oath or a promise. Jack had never asked him to swear that he would do something either.

Since Ennis was a man of few words as far as speaking aloud was concerned, Ennis did not say anything further; but, I would think that he thought the rest of that sentence to himself.

Offline carljn

  • Getting Acquainted
  • *
  • Posts: 12
Re: Scene: Last Scene ("I swear" scene)
« Reply #41 on: January 16, 2006, 07:36:10 AM »
I didn't come up with this idea myself, but on the early message boards I read that "I swear --" meant everything at once, from Wordsworth, thoughts too profound for words.

I thought that having Alma Jr. at the end getting married was a good tie into the beginning of the short story where Ennis is moving in with his married daughter. 

Offline cubistboy

  • Getting Acquainted
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: Scene: Last Scene ("I swear" scene)
« Reply #42 on: January 16, 2006, 04:35:03 PM »
He is also swearing that he will honor him -- that someday, somehow, he will honor his wishes and get his ashes to Brokeback. It is the least he can do. 

I've always thought that finding the shirts with the blood on them means he can fulfill Jack's wishes.  He can bring the shirts to the mountain, or burn them and scatter the ashes.  That way some little piece of Jack will be there as he wanted.

Offline David

  • Experienced
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
Re: Scene: Last Scene ("I swear" scene)
« Reply #43 on: January 16, 2006, 04:50:51 PM »
I saw BBM for the 5th time on Friday and I just CAN'T let go of this movie !!!!   When Ennis pulls the entwined, bloody shirts from Jack's closet and holds them to his face in a desperate attempt to find some remaining "sense" of Jack, my heart just stops.   Who would have thought that the romantic gesture of a lovesick 19 year old boy, trying to preserve the love and hope he felt that summer on Brokeback with Ennis, would end up being the one thing that would, 20 years later, bring some form of comfort to the only man he ever loved.   





Beautiful. Well said.
The huge sadness of the Northern plains rolled down on him.

Offline Wilson

  • Virgin
  • *
  • Posts: 4
Re: Scene: Last Scene ("I swear" scene)
« Reply #44 on: January 16, 2006, 04:55:30 PM »
     I'm curious...what is the opinion of Alma Jr.s thoughts on her father...I got the distinct impression she knew about him...not details, but that she knew...but they both cant speak of it...for reasons of sadness, hurt, embarrassment...when she says "Yeah daddy, he loves me..."
Todd

I thought this too.  In the scene where she meets Ennis barmaid girlfriend, she says something like "I guess I didn't think he was the marrying kind" - I remember reading many years ago that 'not the marrying kind' was an old-fashioned, polite euphemism for being gay, similar to saying 'he's very musical' or 'artistic'.  Anyway, Alma Jnr can't mean this literally as he was married to her mother - so this pushes you towards a more coded meaning.  When I first saw the film I assumed that Alma Snr must have told her something about 'Jack Nasty'.

This seems to make it even sadder that he is too scared to tell her of his love - but probably she already knows.