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Author Topic: Last Scene ("I swear" scene)  (Read 355422 times)

Offline In Tears

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Re: Scene: Last Scene ("I swear" scene)
« Reply #60 on: January 18, 2006, 10:51:37 AM »

about the postcard...which post card is that? the one marked deceased? or one jack had sent ennis? the first one from jack (sparking the reunion) seemed to have a generic mountain on it (not brokeback), whereas the post card that is tacked up is a picture of the actual brokeback.
It seems to me that, true to character,  E always sent generic white postcards and Jack always sent color photo cards!
« Last Edit: January 22, 2006, 05:11:15 PM by In Tears »
"Later, that dozy embrace solidified in his memory as the single moment of artless, charmed happiness in their separate and difficult lives."

Offline In Tears

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Re: Scene: Last Scene ("I swear" scene)
« Reply #61 on: January 18, 2006, 11:01:16 AM »
Love all the different ideas about this last scene and what " Jack, I swear, " really means. It's part of the beauty of this film that it's left up to us to insert our own feelings here......giving us a chance to get involved. I haven't figured it out for myself yet. Each time I think I know what Ennis means, a little while later I think he might mean something a bit different.
I think he's swearing to Jack that he will not let life and love pass him by anymore. it's clear to me when he asks Junior if her guy loves her....he then looks out the window, reflecting on his own love and you can see the tears almost form in his eyes. He quickly gets up (so Ennis) and changes the subject.
By folding Junoir's shirt and smelling it, he's determined to change. Not going to let the people down who love him .
Jack's shirt insie of Ennis'?
Jack will ALWAYS be inside of Ennis' heart.
At the risk of being very personal here, I once had the help of a therapist in dealing with my grief over my dear mother's death.  At one point when I told him of my intense longing to be able to speak with her, just once more, he softly asked me "what would you say?"  Well, to my own astonishment, I did not know what I would say, nor does E.  Words, any words, would understate - cheapen - the depth of the loss and love he feels.
"Later, that dozy embrace solidified in his memory as the single moment of artless, charmed happiness in their separate and difficult lives."

Offline JamesDean33

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Re: Scene: Last Scene ("I swear" scene)
« Reply #62 on: January 19, 2006, 01:06:44 AM »
I think the "I swear" line means, "I swear, if I had known things would have turned out this way, I would have taken a chance, found the way for the two of us to have a life together." (Or perhaps that's my own wishful thinking.)

That final line is  all about regret and the sting of things that cannot be undone.  I think Ennis realizes too late how deeply he truly loved Jack.  The "I swear" broken off, is also symbolic of their uncompleted, "broken off" love affair.  Someone used the word "thwarted" in a recent post, referring to the John Twist, the "stud duck".  That word applies to Jack's life, Ennis's life, Ennis parents lives, Jack's parent's live ( and the lives of countless others who are trapped into just existing with no real joy.) 

In those two words, we are made to feel Ennis' regret, frustration and grief.  My mind keeps going back to that question- "I swear"? It's a mystery that won't ever be resolved.  Proulx is a brilliant writer.  She shows Ennis to be taciturn and enigmatic even until the end.  It makes you want to reach out and try to get inside his head, break those barriers down, comfort him.  Probably why Jack loved him so much.  Ennis was so obviously wounded, Jack wanted to "fix" him, wanted to give him happiness, a good life after the bad hand he was dealt as a kid.

God, the way Ennis inhales those shirts really did me in.  I sobbed in the car all the way home!

 That was so well put that it actually brought tears to me eyes!

 Awsome! Truly awsome.

-Cheers

Offline gnash

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Re: Scene: Last Scene ("I swear" scene)
« Reply #63 on: January 19, 2006, 05:07:39 AM »
Funny, but in my first veiwing, I swore I saw Jack looking at Randall when he asked Lasahwn to dance. Which one was he addressing (privately or publically)? - probably just me, but each time I see it Jack seems to be flirting a bit with Randall.

YES! He WAS looking at Randall! Randall even looks startled when his wife pipes up and agrees to dance with Jack. Jack's definitely playing a little game there.  :D

Cara

OH yeah, and he's no newbie at it either.  Way out of Randall's league, although of course Randall doesn't know that.

Dal

YES! He WAS looking at Randall! Randall even looks startled when his wife pipes up and agrees to dance with Jack. Jack's definitely playing a little game there.  :D

Cara

i know this should be on another thread but i want to respond to what you guys said:

well he surely was looking at randall, but right after jack asks lashawn to dance, he shoots randall a very telling glance. i think he says "YOU MIND?" it's almost hostile. his eyes widen and his head cocks forward, as if to drive home a point. to me, it was like jack KNEW that randall was gving him the eye, and by asking randall's wife to dance, he was stopping randall, and again, driving home a point: don't fucking cruise me in front of our wives. i'm going to dance with your wife to prove, or at least make it seem, like i'm straight.

(one wonders what randall and lureen talked about when jack and lashawn were dancing)

now, think about that scene, or study it the next time ya'll see the movie, and hopefully you won't think i'm wrong. he's very direct, and the look in his eyes when he does that, at least to me, is more than just a random look. he was telling randall NOT to play games.

jack wasn't dumb here, he'd learned early on that what he did with men could get him in trouble. remember "seeing" him thinking, when the bartender told him that maybe he should try calf roping? he knew what was up, that jimbo had his number, and that any "games" he played could get him in a heap of trouble. he slammed the money on the bar after telling the bartender, basically, to eff off.

i have a feeling that ang lee described the scene and went into detail about how he wanted jake to play it out at the dance with the wives. it was very obvious to me that jack was aware of randall's flirting, and wanted to put a stop to it pronto.

then, when they were outside, jack was more lenient. with the two of them alone, he tested randall by asking "...ever notice how a woman will powder her nose.." before and after a party? he asks, "why powder your nose just to go home to bed?"

to me, that was jack addressing his suspicion that randall was gay and coming on to him at the party.

but randall is clueless at this point and doesn't pick up on the meaning of jack's question. if randall were straight, he might have chimed in with "well, maybe it's cuz the party's not over when we get home, hehe."

but no. there's silence, and jack changes the subject, talking about how roy is a good guy.

randall agrees, the starts in on his notion of the two of them getting drunk at the lake. "...get away, you know..."

jack then realized what he suspected was true. randall wanted a "fishin' buddy."

the realization renders him speechless, and then the women come out.. of course, the audience then laughs because lashawn is STILL talking a blue streak. however, the depth of the situation was not lost on me, and as the lashawn's conversation ends with "...boy we were behind the times..." i was still reeling from what had just gone down between the two men.

---- now, i swear:

deegilles -- i too loved how ennis inhales the scent of the bloody shirts. i noticed also how he sniffed his own shirt as he was in a rush packing up to go fishing that one time.

he also smelled alma jr's sweater a bit as he was folding it up in the last scene.

i'm sure there are other scenes where he's sniffin other things too... he seemed to be inhaling the scent of jack in the flashback scene. did he sniff his socks as he took them off to bathe up on brokeback? i forgot. there seems to be something going on with the sense of smell here.

perhaps ang lee wanted to convey the sense of smell and sensibility. ;)
« Last Edit: January 19, 2006, 08:33:07 PM by gnash »

"Brokeback is about a lost paradise, an Eden."  – Ang Lee


Offline happycamper

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Re: Scene: Last Scene ("I swear" scene)
« Reply #64 on: January 19, 2006, 07:02:33 AM »
i know this should be on another thread but i want to respond to what you guys said:

well he surely was looking at randall, but right after jack asks lashawn to dance, he shoots randall a very telling glance. i think he says "YOU MIND?" it's almost hostile. his eyes widen and his head cocks forward, as if to drive home a point. to me, it was like jack KNEW that randall was gving him the eye, and by asking randall's wife to dance, he was stopping randall, and again, driving home a point: don't fucking cruise me in front of our wives. i'm going to dance with your wife to prove, or at least make it seem, like i'm straight.

(one wonders what randall and lureen talked about when jack and lashawn were dancing)

now, think about that scene, or study it the next time ya'll see the movie, and hopefully you won't think i'm wrong. he's very direct, and the look in his eyes when he does that, at least to me, is more than just a random look. he was telling randall NOT to play games.

jack wasn't a dumb, he'd learned early on that what he did with men could get him in trouble. remember "seeing" him thinking, when the bartender told him that maybe he should try calf roping? he knew what was up, that jimbo had his number, and that any "games" he played could get him in a heap of trouble. he slammed the money on the bar after telling the bartender, basically, to eff off.

i have a feeling that ang lee described the scene and went into detail about how he wanted jake to play it out at the dance with the wives. it was very obvious to me that jack was aware of randall's flirting, and wanted to put a stop to it pronto.

then, when they were outside, jack was more lenient. with the two of them alone, he tested randall by asking "...ever notice how a woman will powder her nose.." before and after a party? he asks, "why powder your nose just to go home to bed?"

to me, that was jack addressing his suspicion that randall was gay and coming on to him at the party.

but randall is clueless at this point and doesn't pick up on the meaning of jack's question. if randall were straight, he might have chimed in with "well, maybe it's cuz the party's not over when we get home, hehe."

but no. there's silence, and jack changes the subject, talking about how roy is a good guy.

randall agrees, the starts in on his notion of the two of them getting drunk at the lake. "...get away, you know..."

jack then realized what he suspected was true. randall wanted a "fishin' buddy."

the realization renders him speechless, and then the women come out.. of course, the audience then laughs because lashawn is STILL talking a blue streak. however, the depth of the situation was not lost on me, and as the lashawn's conversation ends with "...boy we were behind the times..." i was still reeling from what had just gone down between the two men.
gnash, that is an interesting read of the scene, because I also noticed that Jack was looking at Randall when he said "wanna dance?" and it sure scared Randall off. There *was* a certain hostility in the way that he did it. And when Jake said, "why powder your nose just to go home and go to bed" he was admitting that there was no more sex in his marriage, and maybe like you say he is giving Randall an opening there. So give your interpretation, I am curious about how you read the later scene. When Jack tells Ennis he is doing the ranch foreman's wife, do you think he is really sneaking off with Lashawna, with Randall, or with neither of them and just wants to match Ennis statement about Cassie?

Offline gnash

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Re: Scene: Last Scene ("I swear" scene)
« Reply #65 on: January 19, 2006, 01:32:56 PM »
happycamper, regarding the above,

i said it before.... it's somewhere in another post. in a nutshell, my take is that jack was lying -- he was doing randall. he'd lied to ennis before, at least told "white lies." didn't tell him about joe's nasty comment, etc.. john twist's comments seems to support this as well, when he told ennis that jack had some other fella, or something, to come up to the ranch...

remember, being gay and closeted, you get pretty familiar with lies. you lie to stay alive, and the lies are told to loved ones, aquaintences, even yourself. i'm glad i came out of my closet at 13, to my family at least. i did have to keep one foot in the door when high school came around,,, but that was easy - i dated the captain of the varsity cheerleading squad - herself a closeted lesbian. kissing her one day on the bus, i was also eyeballing her little brother who was shirtless and doing backflips on their front lawn -- a gymnast. she noticed and pulled away and confronted me: "you'd rather be kissing my brother, wouldn't you?"

i stuttered "uhh, uhh.." but before i could get a "lie" out, she smiled, "it's okay. see you tomorrow."

oh yeah -- what was interesting to me is that ennis didn't care about the woman jack mentioned, but those boys in mexico! whoo hee!
« Last Edit: January 19, 2006, 08:34:02 PM by gnash »

"Brokeback is about a lost paradise, an Eden."  – Ang Lee


Offline westexer

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Re: Scene: Last Scene ("I swear" scene)
« Reply #66 on: January 19, 2006, 03:10:06 PM »
Quote
So give your interpretation, I am curious about how you read the later scene. When Jack tells Ennis he is doing the ranch foreman's wife, do you think he is really sneaking off with Lashawna, with Randall, or with neither of them and just wants to match Ennis statement about Cassie?
Quote

I think that he definitely was sneakin off with Randall and that he said it was with the woman because he knew Ennis wouldn't care less if he was doin a woman.  They weren't equals in Ennis' mind.  But we all know damn well that if he had said Randall, then Ennis would have been a firebrand of anger - lit up the night sky with rage - even more than about the Mexico thing cause the Mexico thing is prostitution - anonymous.  But an on goin thing with a local ranch foreman is really the sign that Jack is movin on.  That would have been a God awful scene if Jack had told him that it's over, because there was another man in his life.  It took Jack's ass of a father to tell Ennis that as a backhand stab at his mournin.

Offline phlmale

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Re: Scene: Last Scene ("I swear" scene)
« Reply #67 on: January 19, 2006, 06:20:19 PM »
I think the "I swear" line means, "I swear, if I had known things would have turned out this way, I would have taken a chance, found the way for the two of us to have a life together." (Or perhaps that's my own wishful thinking.)

That final line is  all about regret and the sting of things that cannot be undone.  I think Ennis realizes too late how deeply he truly loved Jack.  The "I swear" broken off, is also symbolic of their uncompleted, "broken off" love affair.  Someone used the word "thwarted" in a recent post, referring to the John Twist, the "stud duck".  That word applies to Jack's life, Ennis's life, Ennis parents lives, Jack's parent's live ( and the lives of countless others who are trapped into just existing with no real joy.) 

In those two words, we are made to feel Ennis' regret, frustration and grief.  My mind keeps going back to that question- "I swear"? It's a mystery that won't ever be resolved.  Proulx is a brilliant writer.  She shows Ennis to be taciturn and enigmatic even until the end.  It makes you want to reach out and try to get inside his head, break those barriers down, comfort him.  Probably why Jack loved him so much.  Ennis was so obviously wounded, Jack wanted to "fix" him, wanted to give him happiness, a good life after the bad hand he was dealt as a kid.

God, the way Ennis inhales those shirts really did me in.  I sobbed in the car all the way home!

 That was so well put that it actually brought tears to me eyes!

 Awsome! Truly awsome.

-Cheers


Definitely open to interpretation...what a brillant short story, so tight and terse with the language..but so many built in ambiguities. 

My interpretation is that Ennis would never ever commit to a daily life with Jack, just continue to withdraw from life and emotionally detach. 

He also will never, ever again seek out or find this type of love again, now that he has lost Jack (see prologue from short story..I hear that the prologue, which shows what happens to Ennis later in life, was added AFTER the original publication in the new yorker)

..Ennis is also overcome with grief and longing for the one soul who touched him deeply, and realizes how much he hurt Jack in life.....and the "I swear.."  is Ennis admitting to Jack that he really did love him, that he tried to show it in his own "Twist-ed" way, and that he did not mean to hurt him so,  and will forever cherish his memory..knowing Ennis this means no further emotional commitments in the future..since it is so painful for him..just life alone and memories..just my take on it...


Offline zach

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Re: Scene: Last Scene ("I swear" scene)
« Reply #68 on: January 20, 2006, 01:26:56 AM »
I noticed that the movie ended exactly the same as it started.

The same S curve road (except in the beginning the truck was going to the left, at the end his pickup to the right).

Everything that Ennis had was in a brown paper bag. Look at the beginning, the paper bag that he is carrying looks exactly the same as when he leaves Jack's parents house. 

 He was starting his life over after the only people he had died (parents in beginning, Jack at end).  He was standing outside of a trailer smoking a cigarette when a car unexpectedly drives up with the 19 year old that he loves in it.

Offline In Tears

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Re: Scene: Last Scene ("I swear" scene)
« Reply #69 on: January 20, 2006, 01:32:41 AM »
I noticed that the movie ended exactly the same as it started.

The same S curve road (except in the beginning the truck was going to the left, at the end his pickup to the right).

Everything that Ennis had was in a brown paper bag. Look at the beginning, the paper bag that he is carrying looks exactly the same as when he leaves Jack's parents house. 

He was starting his life over after the only people he had died (parents in beginning, Jack at end).  He was standing outside of a trailer smoking a cigarette when a car unexpectedly drives up with the 19 year old that he loves in it.

Wow, I never thought of the Alma, Jr. and young J parallel!  Very nice.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2006, 05:13:01 PM by In Tears »
"Later, that dozy embrace solidified in his memory as the single moment of artless, charmed happiness in their separate and difficult lives."

Offline JamesDean33

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Re: Scene: Last Scene ("I swear" scene)
« Reply #70 on: January 20, 2006, 01:58:53 AM »

 Hey all,

 OK, so now I thought I was over it all, but I read a few posts here and I am right back to where I was! Heartbroken and aching! This is so my teens relived. Just the thought of that last scene when Ennis's daughter is gone and he is left all alone in that shabby, sparsely furnished trailer, alone, with Jack's shirt, a postcard and a mind full of memories. Oh! Makes me cry everytime.  :'(     We are all going through this right? I mean, I'm not crazy....it creeps back up on you? Right? ...............................hello? Anyone?    :-\

-James

Offline gnash

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Re: Scene: Last Scene ("I swear" scene)
« Reply #71 on: January 20, 2006, 02:44:22 AM »
I noticed that the movie ended exactly the same as it started.

The same S curve road (except in the beginning the truck was going to the left, at the end his pickup to the right).

Everything that Ennis had was in a brown paper bag. Look at the beginning, the paper bag that he is carrying looks exactly the same as when he leaves Jack's parents house. 

 He was starting his life over after the only people he had died (parents in beginning, Jack at end).  He was standing outside of a trailer smoking a cigarette when a car unexpectedly drives up with the 19 year old that he loves in it.

Wow, I never thought of the Alma, Jr. and young J parallel!  Very nice.

wow, me either,,,, everything else, but not the cig/trailer,  truck/car, jack at 19/alma jr. at 19 stuff! thanks InTears!

also, when there's a randall-lashawn/jack-lureen thread, i'll post my previous post here, over there.

"Brokeback is about a lost paradise, an Eden."  – Ang Lee


Offline peteinportland

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Re: Scene: Last Scene ("I swear" scene)
« Reply #72 on: January 20, 2006, 02:53:47 AM »
Gnash, there is already a thread for Jack and Lureen scenes (and as Randall and LaShawn are part of one of the Jack/Lureen scenes, I don't want to create a separate one for them). This conversation about Jack and Randall will probably fit better there (as you have already noted!).

Offline LL

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Re: Scene: Last Scene ("I swear" scene)
« Reply #73 on: January 20, 2006, 04:05:57 AM »
My interpretation of the Lureen/Ennis phone call was Lureen knew that Jack was gay.  There were a couple other scenes showing Jack was with other men or thinking of being with other men.  To me, Lureens coldness came from the fact that their marriage had deteriorated to as Jack put it something that could be "done over the phone."  Jack had complained to Ennis that as the years past Lureen had been lost in the accounting books that she was working on for most of the movie.  I think somewhere Lureen knew that she and Jack never shared the same heart for each other that obviously Jack and Ennis did.  Lureen cared for Jack and loved him but not near the kind of love that Ennis and Jack shared.  She knew Jack’s heart had not been hers and had resolved that Jack "never really loved me." That came off in the phone conversation with Ennis.  I don't think her coldness was because she was covering up her husband’s murder.  Jack being murdered would not have proven he was gay or had "shamed" the family in some way if in fact he was found on the side of the road like she said.  I think the flashback was without a doubt Ennis' fear number one and the driving theme of this movie.  Gay=dead or dead=gay.  His father showed him the tortured body of a gay man when he was a child for crying out loud.  How do you get over that?  This doesn't change the fact that Jack could have been murdered but it's irrelevant to the theme. Ennis lost the love of his life.  Now he would never be able to go back to Brokeback Mountain and will have to live out the rest of his life with the choice he made which is the real tragedy of this movie.  In Jack and Ennis’ last moments together, the pain and desperation of missing Jack had Ennis tripled over on his knees crying but still, Ennis could not overcome his fear of living a life with Jack.  In the end, when Ennis says, "I swear...." he is saying it with awe at the endurance and depth of his love for Jack.  However, I don't believe Ennis ever truly feels that things would of or could have been different.

Offline killersmom

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Re: Scene: Last Scene ("I swear" scene)
« Reply #74 on: January 20, 2006, 05:37:21 AM »

 Hey all,

 OK, so now I thought I was over it all, but I read a few posts here and I am right back to where I was! Heartbroken and aching! This is so my teens relived. Just the thought of that last scene when Ennis's daughter is gone and he is left all alone in that shabby, sparsely furnished trailer, alone, with Jack's shirt, a postcard and a mind full of memories. Oh! Makes me cry everytime.  :'(     We are all going through this right? I mean, I'm not crazy....it creeps back up on you? Right? ...............................hello? Anyone?    :-\

-James

James,
you absolutely are not alone. It is that way for everone here and that is why we keep coming back :) Every single scene creeps up on you at any time day or night. You think about it, shed a tear or sometimes a nose blowing deluge of tears, but it gets EACH and EVERY ONE of us.  YOU ARE NOT CRAZY :o
It creeps into you soul and comes back out through your pores. It is sometimes scary, but at all times uplifting and we all are there for you :D

Keep coming back in any thread and share, share, share.  Believe it is good for the soul...yours and ours

killersmom
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