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Author Topic: Last Scene w/ Ennis and Jack Together  (Read 755096 times)

lynn

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Re: Scene: Last Scene w/ Ennis and Jack Together
« Reply #30 on: January 10, 2006, 07:51:09 PM »
And maybe another Ang touch -- they were facing in opposite directions. In the initial tent scene on the mountain, they are facing right, with Ennis behind Jack. In the final camp night scene, they are facing left, again with Ennis behind Jack. Same position, different direction. Like bookends on their relationship.

Just like Ang did in the opening and Ennis after Jack's parents scenes, with the trucks going in opposite directions. Bookends.

Offline peteinportland

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Re: Scene: Last Scene w/ Ennis and Jack Together
« Reply #31 on: January 10, 2006, 09:25:45 PM »
Dammit, Lynn, I never thought of that, but you are so right! Ang Lee doesn't put in any scene just to have a scene in there. Of course, it is a bookend and another parallel this film offers up (I am beginning to think there is a parallel scene for every scene in the film). And we see these "snuggle" scenes on their first and last nights sleeping together.  Oh, how sweet and tender, yet heartbreaking at the same time!

Offline BigEd

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Re: Scene: Last Scene w/ Ennis and Jack Together
« Reply #32 on: January 10, 2006, 10:17:01 PM »
I think the description still holds.  Ennis DOES allow Jack to comfort him on the second try, but he also collapses from the grief and pain of finally verbalizing these emotions.  And they're still holding each other when the scene fades-in to the flashback.
I guess the difference for me goes to the description that "what they've just said is no news: as always, nothing ended, nothing begun, nothing resolved." In the screenplay, I can accept that progression. When seeing Ennis collapse on screen, it's hard for me to think that nothing has changed. Ennis seems completely broken.

He is broken.  Butt he still doesn't give in to his love for Jack.  He gets into his truck and drives away.  Again.

Thatís one of the reasons I think this movie is so hard to watch, and to not watch. Ennis comes from nothing and has nothing, yet finds in one of the unlikeliest of places that which most of us treasure above all else, a deep and abiding love. But Ennis walks away from it over and over again. Their final scene together, where Ennis leaves Jack yet again, wraps their whole twenty years up in a neat and unsavoury little package of lost opportunities. And this is mercilessly re-enforced by the flashback, which shows the awakening of lives that might have been.

I donít think it really matters if BBM wins more awards (though I hope it does because I love it so), or if the heartland embraces it (which it maybe doing). What I really hope for BBM is that it shows the horrible cost of emulating Jackís and Ennisís choices. People need to come to terms with who they are. Although it doesnít guarantee meeting the love of your life, it does mean that you get to spend your life with them if you do. If the movie gets that message across, and I think that this scene brilliantly does just that, then it will have affected real social change.
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Offline Caroline

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Re: Scene: Last Scene w/ Ennis and Jack Together
« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2006, 10:22:56 PM »
I think the description still holds.  Ennis DOES allow Jack to comfort him on the second try, but he also collapses from the grief and pain of finally verbalizing these emotions.  And they're still holding each other when the scene fades-in to the flashback.
I guess the difference for me goes to the description that "what they've just said is no news: as always, nothing ended, nothing begun, nothing resolved." In the screenplay, I can accept that progression. When seeing Ennis collapse on screen, it's hard for me to think that nothing has changed. Ennis seems completely broken.

He is broken.  Butt he still doesn't give in to his love for Jack.  He gets into his truck and drives away.  Again.

Thatís one of the reasons I think this movie is so hard to watch, and to not watch. Ennis comes from nothing and has nothing, yet finds in one of the unlikeliest of places that which most of us treasure above all else, a deep and abiding love. But Ennis walks away from it over and over again. Their final scene together, where Ennis leaves Jack yet again, wraps their whole twenty years up in a neat and unsavoury little package of lost opportunities. And this is mercilessly re-enforced by the flashback, which shows the awakening of lives that might have been.

I donít think it really matters if BBM wins more awards (though I hope it does because I love it so), or if the heartland embraces it (which it maybe doing). What I really hope for BBM is that it shows the horrible cost of emulating Jackís and Ennisís choices. People need to come to terms with who they are. Although it doesnít guarantee meeting the love of your life, it does mean that you get to spend your life with them if you do. If the movie gets that message across, and I think that this scene brilliantly does just that, then it will have affected real social change.


Big Ed, welcome to the board at least as a poster (perhaps weeks as a lurker...) but very well said... that is the essence of BBM... people need to come to terms with who they are and how they are handling the loves of their lives... whether they are with them or not... thank you
How strong a person is can be measured by what it takes to discourage them.... church sign, Trafalgar Rd, Georgetown, Ont Canada.. 01/30/2006

Offline IAdude71

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Re: Scene: Last Scene w/ Ennis and Jack Together
« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2006, 10:32:15 PM »
I have to be honest.† It was tough picking my favorite scene but this one is my top choice.

First, the passion and frustration they have felt for so long finally comes to a head.† Jack vents his resentment for only being able to be with Ennis a few times a year.† And then when Ennis breaks down into tears and Jack comforts him is just so overwhelming.†

But what I remember most of this scene is the "dozy embrace".† Whenever I see this picture on my wallpaper (or see it on film) my heart just melts.† It's hard to even find the words to describe it.† Ennis embracing Jack from behind ties so nicely together with the ending scene where we see Ennis' shirt embracing Jack's, protecting him forever.† It still gives me chills.†

It speaks volumes....
I wish I knew how to quit you!

Offline blairski

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Re: Scene: Last Scene w/ Ennis and Jack Together
« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2006, 12:59:55 AM »
The discussion on this thread just blows me away.  I'm so glad I found you all to share this experience with, and then you're so insightful and good writers to boot!  Thanks.

Offline ImEnnisShesJack

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Re: Scene: Last Scene w/ Ennis and Jack Together
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2006, 06:54:54 AM »
The discussion on this thread just blows me away.† I'm so glad I found you all to share this experience with, and then you're so insightful and good writers to boot!† Thanks.

I think this movie is so powerful it has inspired or ignited some kind of spark in so many of us.  Some of the things I even find myself writing I wonder where they came from - not like me to be that way. ;)

Welcome and keep posting and sharing your views.  This is an amazing experience we're a part of.  And even if BBM doesn't set the entire world on its ear, it's definitely reaching people.  Effecting people.  Changing people.
"And when he shall die,
Take him and cut him out in little stars,
And he will make the face of heaven so fine
That all the world will be in love with night."
~~Heath Ledger 1979-2008~~

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dkellergrl2001

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Re: Scene: Last Scene w/ Ennis and Jack Together
« Reply #37 on: January 11, 2006, 08:14:46 AM »
Quote
What I really hope for BBM is that it shows the horrible cost of emulating Jackís and Ennisís choices. People need to come to terms with who they are. Although it doesnít guarantee meeting the love of your life, it does mean that you get to spend your life with them if you do.

BigEd, you've made me tear up with your eloquent words.  Thank you for your post.

Offline DaveL

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Re: Scene: Last Scene w/ Ennis and Jack Together
« Reply #38 on: January 11, 2006, 11:21:08 PM »
New thread: fatalism?† †Like Tristan/Isolde and Romeo/Juliet or Anna K, is their fate sealed from the beginning?† On the old board, a Romanian translator raised the issue of the meaning of "laid the ministering angel out in the wild columbine, wings folded" (elaboration on the bloody shirts).† This I thought was a superfine example of prolepsis, in almost the Homeric sense, the tragic foreshadowing.† No doubt J is an angel (despite the character flaws pointed out by some posters).† The "wings folded" might be meant to reference those funerary figures depicting the deceased with hands clasped in an attitude of perpetual prayer (sorry the old board seems to have disappeared, some of the exchanges were going somewhere).† It foreshadows J's death, "caused"† in the but-for sense, by E's rejection.† This coming together and painful parting is repeated over and over.† Neither can break the chains of custom. Love does not conquer all.† (The book is much more consistent on this, in the "true ending" of the italicized opening paragraphs; the film has a Hollywood ending, with a wedding announcement and a view to a sunny meadow, the book ends with the enforced departure from the ranch and loss of a job.) E cannot change.† There is no reconciliation with his daughters in the book, and certainly never with his wife.† Even the agent of death is far less significant than the fact of death.† The author's own characterization is "the accident".† But it doesn't matter: Ennis' fate must be solitude, relieved only by the revisitation of a spirit.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2006, 11:24:15 PM by DaveL »
"Ennis del Mar wakes before five....The shirts hanging on a nail shudder slightly in the draft..It could be bad on the highway with the horsetrailer.He has to be packed and away from the place that morning...The wind strikes the trailer like a load of dirt coming off a dump truck, eases, dies...."

Offline killersmom

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Re: Scene: Last Scene w/ Ennis and Jack Together
« Reply #39 on: January 11, 2006, 11:50:46 PM »
The discussion on this thread just blows me away.† I'm so glad I found you all to share this experience with, and then you're so insightful and good writers to boot!† Thanks.

I think this movie is so powerful it has inspired or ignited some kind of spark in so many of us.† Some of the things I even find myself writing I wonder where they came from - not like me to be that way. ;)

Welcome and keep posting and sharing your views.† This is an amazing experience we're a part of.† And even if BBM doesn't set the entire world on its ear, it's definitely reaching people.† Effecting people.† Changing people.

This is exactly how I feel. The sharing, the fantastic writing, the inspiration, the depth of personal thoughts and the flow with which I am able to express so freely my thoughts. ( I am not usually like this either :P) I have been lurking on all of this almost from the beginning (of the original board) and now that I have made the plunge, it's almost impossible to turn the tap off. So many good thoughts and issues give rise to so many more. Where does it end and do we want it to?
If you don't impact someone, then this is all a waste.
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Offline trebor99

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Re: Scene: Last Scene w/ Ennis and Jack Together
« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2006, 08:52:05 AM »
I have to be honest.† It was tough picking my favorite scene but this one is my top choice.

First, the passion and frustration they have felt for so long finally comes to a head.† Jack vents his resentment for only being able to be with Ennis a few times a year.† And then when Ennis breaks down into tears and Jack comforts him is just so overwhelming.†

But what I remember most of this scene is the "dozy embrace".† Whenever I see this picture on my wallpaper (or see it on film) my heart just melts.† It's hard to even find the words to describe it.† Ennis embracing Jack from behind ties so nicely together with the ending scene where we see Ennis' shirt embracing Jack's, protecting him forever.† It still gives me chills.†

It speaks volumes....


When Ennis breaks down into tears and Jack comforts him is my favorite scene in the movie; my next favorite is Ennis' visit to Jack's parents and the understanding and compassion of Jack's mother.  Especially when she tells Ennis to come back and visit.  It gives me hope that he will have someone with whom to talk about Jack---someone who knew and loved him, too.


Offline tarheel_david

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Re: Scene: Last Scene w/ Ennis and Jack Together
« Reply #41 on: January 12, 2006, 04:08:23 PM »
Hi all, I'm David from Charlotte, NC, a first-time poster on this wonderful site. Thanks to all who have made this available!

I've seen the film twice so far and I particularly love this scene. The emotions on display here are so raw. I once heard Sally Field talk about playing hyper-emotional scenes like this one. She explained that she psychologically cuts and pricks herself for days in advance because the fresh "wounds" help her tap into the pain she needs. While watching this heartbreaking scene, I could easily imagine Heath and Jake going to equally deep places within themselves to prepare for shooting. Simply Amazing.

I also have a question about this scene. After Jack says (I don't have the script so this'll be a rough paraphrase) that he wishes he could quit Ennis, Ennis breaks down and asks, "Why don't you?" He adds, "I'm like this because of you. I'm nothing. A nobody. Just let me be." Why does Ennis want Jack to let him be? What precisely is he blaming Jack for? Is he lamenting the basic fact that he even got into the relationship with Jack? The fact that his love for Jack is so overwhelming that it's led him to neglect every other part of his life these past years? The fact that his relationship with Jack has caused him have to live under the shadow of his crippling fear for so long? All or none of these? I'd love to hear your thoughts.

THDavid
"How can you just leave me standing, alone in a world that's so cold? Maybe I'm just too demanding. Maybe I'm just like my father, too bold. Maybe you're just like my mother. She's never satisfied. Why do we scream at each other? This is what it sounds like when doves cry."

Offline sotoalf

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Re: Scene: Last Scene w/ Ennis and Jack Together
« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2006, 04:17:28 PM »
Hi all, I'm David from Charlotte, NC, a first-time poster on this wonderful site. Thanks to all who have made this available!

I've seen the film twice so far and I particularly love this scene. The emotions on display here are so raw. I once heard Sally Field talk about playing hyper-emotional scenes like this one. She explained that she psychologically cuts and pricks herself for days in advance because the fresh "wounds" help her tap into the pain she needs. While watching this heartbreaking scene, I could easily imagine Heath and Jake going to equally deep places within themselves to prepare for shooting. Simply Amazing.

I also have a question about this scene. After Jack says (I don't have the script so this'll be a rough paraphrase) that he wishes he could quit Ennis, Ennis breaks down and asks, "Why don't you?" He adds, "I'm like this because of you. I'm nothing. A nobody. Just let me be." Why does Ennis want Jack to let him be? What precisely is he blaming Jack for? Is he lamenting the basic fact that he even got into the relationship with Jack? The fact that his love for Jack is so overwhelming that it's led him to neglect every other part of his life these past years? The fact that his relationship with Jack has caused him have to live under the shadow of his crippling fear for so long? All or none of these? I'd love to hear your thoughts.

THDavid

All the above, David. And welcome to the board!

Ennis asks "Why don't you?" because he's realized the extent to which his love for this embittered Texan has ruined his life...but it's not as if Ennis would want it any other way (for Jack it's another story).

As for Ledger and Gyllenhaal's technique....I wouldn't worry about it. American actors* have a habit of stressing how rigorous their profession is whenever they're interviewed, as if the amount of preparation -- the hard work, etc -- would make their art as acceptable to regular people as working at a bank or being a lawyer; call it another manifestation of the Puritan work ethic, which dismissed the arts as mere frivolity. English actors never talk about characters haunting them for days. Laurence Olivier said he created his characters by working from the outside in; Americna actors, he noted, tend to work from the inside out.

* I know Heath Ledger's Australian, but like a lot of younger actors he idolizes the greats of '70s American film: Pacino, Duvall, De Niro.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2006, 04:19:52 PM by sotoalf »

Offline David

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Re: Scene: Last Scene w/ Ennis and Jack Together
« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2006, 04:19:57 PM »
Hi all, I'm David from Charlotte, NC, a first-time poster on this wonderful site. Thanks to all who have made this available!

I've seen the film twice so far and I particularly love this scene. The emotions on display here are so raw. I once heard Sally Field talk about playing hyper-emotional scenes like this one. She explained that she psychologically cuts and pricks herself for days in advance because the fresh "wounds" help her tap into the pain she needs. While watching this heartbreaking scene, I could easily imagine Heath and Jake going to equally deep places within themselves to prepare for shooting. Simply Amazing.

I also have a question about this scene. After Jack says (I don't have the script so this'll be a rough paraphrase) that he wishes he could quit Ennis, Ennis breaks down and asks, "Why don't you?" He adds, "I'm like this because of you. I'm nothing. A nobody. Just let me be." Why does Ennis want Jack to let him be? What precisely is he blaming Jack for? Is he lamenting the basic fact that he even got into the relationship with Jack? The fact that his love for Jack is so overwhelming that it's led him to neglect every other part of his life these past years? The fact that his relationship with Jack has caused him have to live under the shadow of his crippling fear for so long? All or none of these? I'd love to hear your thoughts.

THDavid

THDavid,

I think the "Why don't you!" comment on the part of Ennis is symbolic of a typical comment that would be made during a lover's quarrel: pretty amazing coming from Ennis if you think about it. He doesn't really want Jack to "quit" him...it's just something you say in reaction. Ennis is "nothing" and "nowhere" because all other meaning in his life has drained out. His only meaning in life is what Jack brings to him.
The huge sadness of the Northern plains rolled down on him.

Offline 909dot

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Re: Scene: Last Scene w/ Ennis and Jack Together
« Reply #44 on: January 12, 2006, 04:56:40 PM »
This is such a great place...

If you notice in that scene when Ennis turns his head and says "well why don't you then" did everyone notice the tear fling from his face and then another pours out when he is facing him...Ennis is literally over flowing with emotion...Ennis may not be the sharpest tool, but he has common sense...he is very aware that his life has only been half lived,,,I don't think he is blaming Jack, but blaming everything else...himself included, for the inability, no matter how far Jack opens the door, to walk through...thats why he "cant stand this any more..."
"maybe you should get outa there...move someplace different...maybe Texas."