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Author Topic: Last Scene w/ Ennis and Jack Together  (Read 755099 times)

jiml

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Re: Scene: Last Scene w/ Ennis and Jack Together
« Reply #60 on: January 13, 2006, 09:32:09 PM »
I do agree that jealous can be sexy. At least, I choose to think that I'm sexy when I get jealous. But then, I never threaten anyone.

Several people have commented that Ennis borders on being abusive with Alma. I never really got that impression until this pivotal moment with Jack. Isn't he sort of saying to Jack that "you can't really have me, but I'm not going to let you have anyone else either."

Offline shipwrecked

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Re: Scene: Last Scene w/ Ennis and Jack Together
« Reply #61 on: January 13, 2006, 09:42:32 PM »
In the book, it seems that Annie take pains to point out to the reader that nothing has really changed after this scene. I agree with Lauren that they planned another trip and everything was the same.

You know, I think it is really sexy when Ennis gets all jealous and tells Jack: "all them things I don't know might get you killed if I should come to know them." Talk about loving your man! I think this is Ennis' way of letting Jack know just how much he means to him.



I found the scene too wrenching to be sexy.  But you're right, it shows his intense love.

Offline wolson

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Re: Scene: Last Scene w/ Ennis and Jack Together
« Reply #62 on: January 13, 2006, 10:49:02 PM »
This scene capitulates the theme, both in cinematography and in screenplay.  In this scene, Ennis and Jack set up the true dichotomy of love; romantic and practical...Jack has the sweeping background of Brokeback, and Jack is given the dusty pickup truck.  So much can be culled from this scene.  They end up in the hardscrabble of the gravel - where romantic love meets the pragmatism of daily life together.  And, stretching the analogy further (believably in my mind); ultimately it's the pragmatic that endures, and sadly where romance dies.  In my mind, Jack has it easier, as should the romantic.  He can literally escape to Brokeback whereas Ennis remains attached.  Its as if he's trying to explain to Jack that there's a reality to their love - it can't always be dreams and beauty. Ugh, I'm having a hard time explaining this because it really can lead to a thesis.  I'll try to summarize.  It's often the littlest notion that creates the romance; such that in the same way "if you ain't got nothin', you don't need nothin'" means all the more when Ennis hangs on to something completely romantic.  So when Jack gives Ennis a hard time at the foot of Brokeback to me its more about Ennis looking back saying, "whoa, I can't even believe we've been lucky enough to have This, let alone what you're talking about..." To me its the ultimate play between the two characters' limitations; Jack's romance and Ennis' pragmatism.  Does anyone else see it this way??

Offline ImEnnisShesJack

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Re: Scene: Last Scene w/ Ennis and Jack Together
« Reply #63 on: January 14, 2006, 07:24:13 AM »
We never see Ennis get jealous. It is easy for the viewer/reader to wonder how much Jack means to Ennis. Well, this line makes it loud and clear. Yep, I love it! 

i agree. sexy. it is the first time ennis seems to be saying "i am yours and you are MINE." i loved it.

THAT'S what I was waiting for someone to say.  Ennis was [finally] declaring his POSSESSING Jack.  All these years, Ennis just sat there tight-lipped and when it really came down to it, Ennis finally got proprietary.  Ennis felt he OWNED Jack - despite mediocre marriages and tepid girlfriends.  This scene is amazing in its intensity - from BOTH characters.  (Jack's diatribe is just as powerful.  Listen to the emotion in Jake's voice, how it breaks halfway through...)
Very sexy.  Verrrrrry sexy.

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Offline DeeGilles

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Re: Scene: Last Scene w/ Ennis and Jack Together
« Reply #64 on: January 14, 2006, 09:59:46 AM »
We never see Ennis get jealous. It is easy for the viewer/reader to wonder how much Jack means to Ennis. Well, this line makes it loud and clear. Yep, I love it! 

i agree. sexy. it is the first time ennis seems to be saying "i am yours and you are MINE." i loved it.

THAT'S what I was waiting for someone to say. Ennis was [finally] declaring his POSSESSING Jack. All these years, Ennis just sat there tight-lipped and when it really came down to it, Ennis finally got proprietary. Ennis felt he OWNED Jack - despite mediocre marriages and tepid girlfriends. This scene is amazing in its intensity - from BOTH characters. (Jack's diatribe is just as powerful. Listen to the emotion in Jake's voice, how it breaks halfway through...)
Very sexy. Verrrrrry sexy.



Yep, they definitely feel a sense of ownership over each other's hearts.  Reminds me of some couples who are involved in "open" relationships who are fine with their partner sleeping with someone else, AS LONG AS THEY DON'T GET EMOTIONALLY INVOLVED with that someone.  I also gleen from this scene that Ennis has the upper hand in the relationship, as indicated by Jack's comment about "the short leash you keep me on". 
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Offline David

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Re: Scene: Last Scene w/ Ennis and Jack Together
« Reply #65 on: January 14, 2006, 12:08:31 PM »
This scene capitulates the theme, both in cinematography and in screenplay.  In this scene, Ennis and Jack set up the true dichotomy of love; romantic and practical...Jack has the sweeping background of Brokeback, and Jack is given the dusty pickup truck.  So much can be culled from this scene.  They end up in the hardscrabble of the gravel - where romantic love meets the pragmatism of daily life together.  And, stretching the analogy further (believably in my mind); ultimately it's the pragmatic that endures, and sadly where romance dies.  In my mind, Jack has it easier, as should the romantic.  He can literally escape to Brokeback whereas Ennis remains attached.  Its as if he's trying to explain to Jack that there's a reality to their love - it can't always be dreams and beauty. Ugh, I'm having a hard time explaining this because it really can lead to a thesis.  I'll try to summarize.  It's often the littlest notion that creates the romance; such that in the same way "if you ain't got nothin', you don't need nothin'" means all the more when Ennis hangs on to something completely romantic.  So when Jack gives Ennis a hard time at the foot of Brokeback to me its more about Ennis looking back saying, "whoa, I can't even believe we've been lucky enough to have This, let alone what you're talking about..." To me its the ultimate play between the two characters' limitations; Jack's romance and Ennis' pragmatism.  Does anyone else see it this way??

Great insight. I too thought that Ennis might be suggesting, "Hey, we've been pretty lucky to have what we have so far."
The huge sadness of the Northern plains rolled down on him.

Offline David

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Re: Scene: Last Scene w/ Ennis and Jack Together
« Reply #66 on: January 14, 2006, 12:11:40 PM »
Yep, they definitely feel a sense of ownership over each other's hearts.  Reminds me of some couples who are involved in "open" relationships who are fine with their partner sleeping with someone else, AS LONG AS THEY DON'T GET EMOTIONALLY INVOLVED with that someone.  I also gleen from this scene that Ennis has the upper hand in the relationship, as indicated by Jack's comment about "the short leash you keep me on". 

Which brings me to my next question: What short leash? Seems to me Jack was on a long leash: hundreds of miles away, having affairs (although meaningless), going to Mexico, living his sad life, etc.
The huge sadness of the Northern plains rolled down on him.

Offline mary

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Re: Scene: Last Scene w/ Ennis and Jack Together
« Reply #67 on: January 14, 2006, 02:32:19 PM »

Which brings me to my next question: What short leash? Seems to me Jack was on a long leash: hundreds of miles away, having affairs (although meaningless), going to Mexico, living his sad life, etc.

TO me the short leash meant the fact that the relationship played out for the most part as dictated by Ennis.  He was the one that limited the number of times they saw one another, he was the one who could not commit to making a life together.  So it was more Ennis keeping the relationship on a short leash, never free to become a life together.
never enough time, never enough....

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Offline DaveL

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Re: Scene: Last Scene w/ Ennis and Jack Together
« Reply #68 on: January 14, 2006, 03:08:43 PM »
"Short leash"  I take him at his word.  The book has precious little evidence of infidelity/promiscuity (with either sex) on the part of either protagonist.  Don't confuse the sexual mores of the 70's and beyond with the era these men came of age.  That's one of the differences that looms larger the more one thinks, between book and film.  The film does portray both as fooling around.  In the last horse packing trip, the author specifically refers to references to these affairs as "lies".   J doesn't hold open the offer of  starting the J & E Ranch for 17 years if he's not on some kind of leash.  E doesn't carry the shirts around for the rest of his life had he not held the leash. 
"Ennis del Mar wakes before five....The shirts hanging on a nail shudder slightly in the draft..It could be bad on the highway with the horsetrailer.He has to be packed and away from the place that morning...The wind strikes the trailer like a load of dirt coming off a dump truck, eases, dies...."

Offline Scott88

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Re: Scene: Last Scene w/ Ennis and Jack Together
« Reply #69 on: January 14, 2006, 04:15:31 PM »
Quote
"Short leash"  I take him at his word.  The book has precious little evidence of infidelity/promiscuity (with either sex) on the part of either protagonist.  Don't confuse the sexual mores of the 70's and beyond with the era these men came of age.  That's one of the differences that looms larger the more one thinks, between book and film.  The film does portray both as fooling around.  In the last horse packing trip, the author specifically refers to references to these affairs as "lies".   J doesn't hold open the offer of  starting the J & E Ranch for 17 years if he's not on some kind of leash.  E doesn't carry the shirts around for the rest of his life had he not held the leash. 

Actually, I would submit that all the instances of "infidelity/promiscuity", as you describe, are very much there in the book.  Jack, "who had been riding more than bulls."  Ennis's comment that he was putting the moves to the waitress at a bar, Jack's comment about the rancher's wife.  Jack's father's comment about the "ranch neighbor."  And Annie makes clear that, yes, Jack had gone to Mexico (at least once) when Annie writes, "Braced for it all these years, and here it came, late and unexpected."   

This is something Jack had held back from telling Ennis because he feared what would happen, but as becomes clear in Jack's speech, it was done out of frustration and need, out of the loneliness and grief he felt from being kept on this "short leash" and hardly spending any time with the love of his life.  Jack's speech is the most sincerely felt monologue in the entire piece, and everything he says is unquestionably the truth IMO.

(Also, I recently reread the story and don't recall any references to these as "lies.")

But, you see, I don't have a problem with this at all.  It's not a story about the sexual mores of the '70s, it's a story about these two men and how they struggled to give meaning to their relationship and their lives.  All of their other relationships meant absolutely nothing compared to the deep love they shared.  If the last scene convinces the audience of anything, it is that these men were completely emotionally intertwined--they were "on a leash."

And more importantly, these other dalliances were ALL directly related to their own relationship--whether it was from the loneliness and desperation of being apart for so long (Jack) or failed attempts to move on after so much heartbreak and pain (Ennis & Cassie, Jack & Randall).  Theirs was a lovely, difficult, complex, ultimately heartbreaking relationship.   As flawed human beings, both Ennis and Jack acted in ways I understood and sympathized with.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2006, 04:25:00 PM by Scott88 »

Offline David

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Re: Scene: Last Scene w/ Ennis and Jack Together
« Reply #70 on: January 14, 2006, 04:22:26 PM »
And Annie makes clear that, yes, Jack had gone to Mexico (at least once) when Annie writes, "Braced for it all these years, and here it came, late and unexpected."   

How 'bout that phrase? Has that been discussed yet? I was so hopeful when I first read the story that I thought it might mean Ennis was finally "coming around" and that he actually might consider going to Mexico with Jack. Unfortunately, that doesn't appear to be what Jack was "bracing" for.
The huge sadness of the Northern plains rolled down on him.

Offline Scott88

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Re: Scene: Last Scene w/ Ennis and Jack Together
« Reply #71 on: January 14, 2006, 04:30:24 PM »
Quote
How 'bout that phrase? Has that been discussed yet? I was so hopeful when I first read the story that I thought it might mean Ennis was finally "coming around" and that he actually might consider going to Mexico with Jack. Unfortunately, that doesn't appear to be what Jack was "bracing" for.

Since Jack is "bracing" himself, we have to assume that Ennis's tone when he says, "You been a Mexico, Jack?" is accusatory and angry. (Much like it is in the film.)  Jack is bracing himself because he knew Ennis wouldn't react well to the revelation, but that's precisely why Jack's speech is so powerful.  He brings it all back to one, undeniable truth--he loves Ennis with all of his heart and soul and yet he has never gotten "enough time".  The anguish Gyllenhaal brings to this moment is really heartwrenching.

Offline Dal

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Re: Scene: Last Scene w/ Ennis and Jack Together
« Reply #72 on: January 14, 2006, 04:44:21 PM »
  I also glean from this scene that Ennis has the upper hand in the relationship, as indicated by Jack's comment about "the short leash you keep me on". 

Which brings me to my next question: What short leash? Seems to me Jack was on a long leash: hundreds of miles away, having affairs (although meaningless), going to Mexico, living his sad life, etc.

Well, Jack finds ways to entertain himself, but I think the leash feels pretty short.  At the FIRST phone call (after 9 years!) in their relationship, he drops everything and red-lines the truck "1200 miles north for nothing" i.e. the scene in the movie with Ennis' girls sitting in the pick-up.  Poor Jack has had his leash jerked, and Ennis too dumb to know he had jerked it.  

As you say,  Jack's affairs are empty -- nice expansion of that fact in the flick:  Randall is kinda hot, and when he started talking "fishing" I expected Jake/Jack's face to say "interested";  instead, it said  "here we go again," "guess I might as well get it over with," "been there, done that."  Picture worth a thousand etc -- he's thinking already just how he's going to feel, the morning after.   Jack is just marking time, between trips to Wyoming.  

I think it's all there in the short story, obliquely and compressed, seen thru Ennis' point of view, as he belatedly realizes the 20-year grind that was Childress:  "Jack kept most of his friends' names and phone numbers in his head" (Lureen).    

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Sorry if this rambled;  first-time poster.  I really love Brokeback, from story to screenplay to film.   Too bad everybody on this forum can't take a couple weeks off this July, get together on a Wyoming hill, drink beer, and talk talk talk!  Jobs, bahh.

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Offline shonuff07

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Re: Scene: Last Scene w/ Ennis and Jack Together
« Reply #73 on: January 14, 2006, 04:59:28 PM »
Well, Jack finds ways to entertain himself, but I think the leash feels pretty short.  At the FIRST phone call (after 9 years!) in their relationship, he drops everything and red-lines the truck "1200 miles north for nothing" i.e. the scene in the movie with Ennis' girls sitting in the pick-up.  Poor Jack has had his leash jerked, and Ennis too dumb to know he had jerked it.  

......... I really love Brokeback, from story to screenplay to film.   Too bad everybody on this forum can't take a couple weeks off this July, get together on a Wyoming hill, drink beer, and talk talk talk!  Jobs, bahh.

Dal

                       I agree Dal, the short leash is not sex ( which Jack can get anywhere ) it's the quality time ,and love spent with the intimacy that's SO SHORT!...........the other stuff's just filler.........Randall isn't bad looking......He just ain't Ennis.......filler.


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Offline ImEnnisShesJack

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Re: Scene: Last Scene w/ Ennis and Jack Together
« Reply #74 on: January 14, 2006, 05:57:15 PM »
In the book, it seems that Annie take pains to point out to the reader that nothing has really changed after this scene. I agree with Lauren that they planned another trip and everything was the same.

You know, I think it is really sexy when Ennis gets all jealous and tells Jack: "all them things I don't know might get you killed if I should come to know them." Talk about loving your man! I think this is Ennis' way of letting Jack know just how much he means to him.



I found the scene too wrenching to be sexy.  But you're right, it shows his intense love.

I have to change my opinion from higher up on the page. 
INow I  agree with shipwrecked. Saw the movie again tonight (5th time) and cried from this scene to the end.  It's appealing to see Ennis showing his love and vulnerability.  But to me it seems like too little too late.  Jack tirade is full of bitterness.  No matter how much they love each other, the relationship is at an impasse. 
« Last Edit: January 14, 2006, 06:05:51 PM by ImJackshesEnnis »
"And when he shall die,
Take him and cut him out in little stars,
And he will make the face of heaven so fine
That all the world will be in love with night."
~~Heath Ledger 1979-2008~~

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