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Author Topic: Travels with Alexander the Great  (Read 1516386 times)

Offline magicmountain

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Re: Travels with Alexander the Great
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2007, 04:09:36 AM »
Cool!

You know what that is, right?

The Apollo Belvedere, for something like 400 years the worlds most famous statue---until the 20th century lol

The Vatican has it, I saw it when it came to NY years ago and will never forget my reaction. It knocked me speechless.

2000 years and no arms and you still KNEW why the ancients were so in awe of the Gods.

BB this picture came from the website of an outfit called the Order of Alexander and was entitled "The Last Supper of Alexander the Great," by the French painter Pierre Peyrolle. See the following links:

http://www.meaus.com/2005-prometheus-100.htm

http://www.meaus.com/alexander.html



« Last Edit: October 07, 2007, 08:32:53 PM by magicmountain »
The power of Love came into me
and I became fierce like a lion
then tender like the evening star - Rumi

Offline Nikki

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Re: Travels with Alexander the Great
« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2007, 10:37:55 AM »


Very exciting Jo.  You already know how I feel about Alex/Hep/Bag! LOL  Look forward to paying homage to MR and the gang from TPB!!

BTW I loved the music on YouTube with Anya -- thanks for the heads up on PM.  Maybe I'll look for the CD next time I'm out and about.

N

Welcome Nikki,

Make yourself right at home and if you feel a song coming on just let us know!

Oh, I may feel a song coming on!  You know my record! LOL LOL    Meanwhile, I'll enjoy your photo caps as always on both threads.


P.S.  I couldn't download the above links -- kept getting same message -- web can't connect or something -- bummer!!
« Last Edit: October 07, 2007, 10:58:41 AM by Nikki »
The shirts hanging on a nail shudder slightly in the draft.

If he does not force his attention on it, it might stoke the day, rewarm that old, cold time on the mountain when they owned the world and nothing seemed wrong.

Bliss was it in that dawn to be alive
But to be young was very heaven!

Offline Brokeback_1

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Re: Travels with Alexander the Great
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2007, 01:25:50 PM »
The statue in thecenter is a reconstruction. They put back the arms and put a javelin in his hand instead of a lyre. The original was by Praxiteles, the one we have is a fantastically good Roman copy. It was Apollo giving music to mankind.

The dome is the dome of the Pantheon in Rome. Aside from that it's a composition which is way busy LOL . Oh and the eagle is the Roman Eagle.
There was some open space between what he knew and what he tried to believe but nothing could be done about it, & if you can't fix it, you've got to stand it

Offline magicmountain

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Re: Travels with Alexander the Great
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2007, 08:15:35 PM »
The statue in thecenter is a reconstruction. They put back the arms and put a javelin in his hand instead of a lyre. The original was by Praxiteles, the one we have is a fantastically good Roman copy. It was Apollo giving music to mankind.

The dome is the dome of the Pantheon in Rome. Aside from that it's a composition which is way busy LOL . Oh and the eagle is the Roman Eagle.

BB I have tracked down the mystery of the that statue which formed the basis of the painting by Peyrolle. Obviously Breker had seen the Praxiteles original you describe. See following links:

http://www.artnet.com/Artists/LotDetailPage.aspx?lot_id=AFC70910563B4454

http://steelturman.typepad.com/thesteeldeal/2006/07/a_history_lesso.html

Life is full of surprises ain't it?

PS To see how Salvador Dali et al  fit into the picture google "Peyrolle Alexander" and scroll down to "Alexander the great fraternity and salvador dali" then click on Translate this page.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2007, 08:59:47 PM by magicmountain »
The power of Love came into me
and I became fierce like a lion
then tender like the evening star - Rumi

Offline magicmountain

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Re: Travels with Alexander the Great
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2007, 08:30:04 PM »


Very exciting Jo.  You already know how I feel about Alex/Hep/Bag! LOL  Look forward to paying homage to MR and the gang from TPB!!

BTW I loved the music on YouTube with Anya -- thanks for the heads up on PM.  Maybe I'll look for the CD next time I'm out and about.

N

Welcome Nikki,

Make yourself right at home and if you feel a song coming on just let us know!

Oh, I may feel a song coming on!  You know my record! LOL LOL    Meanwhile, I'll enjoy your photo caps as always on both threads.


P.S.  I couldn't download the above links -- kept getting same message -- web can't connect or something -- bummer!!

Hi Nikki,

Yes those links seem to have conked out. Try the links I posted immediately above and you will find, as I said, that life is full of surprises! By the way, what do you think of the M.Preg site I mentioned earlier featuring your very own Hephaistion the Hawt? (Here he is sharing a tender moment with ATG on the eve of battle.)



PS Alex seems to have a thing about hair doesn't he. The above scene reminds me of that moment of mutual seduction in The Persian Boy where ATG makes his first move by touching Bagoas' hair. Oliver Stone did say he got his inspiration from Mary Renault's trilogy.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2007, 09:02:10 PM by magicmountain »
The power of Love came into me
and I became fierce like a lion
then tender like the evening star - Rumi

Offline magicmountain

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Re: Travels with Alexander the Great
« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2007, 01:41:00 AM »
Alexander - misunderstanding the emotional temper of Mediterranean masculinity?

Some reviewers have criticised Oliver Stone for portraying Alexander as a crybaby. One asks: "Where is the Alexander who was only interested in dominating, conquering, and subjugating everything and everyone around him? Was his sexual life weepy and sappy or did he lustfully enjoy dominating men? Would any army walk 25,000 miles behind a crybaby who achingly longed for the lips and gentle touch of another man? ...Why not show the masculinity of Alexander’s sexuality? Stone could have used ALEXANDER to bury established caricatures of gay men as hairdressers, personal assistants, and interior decorators. Men who enjoy other men sexually can also be bloodthirsty warriors."

See full review

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/click/movie-1173874/reviews.php?critic=all&sortby=default&page=1&rid=1604589

But one Alexanderfan reckons that those reviewers criticising the “crybaby” element of Alexander’s character, as sometimes displayed in the Oliver Stone film, misunderstand the situation. According to this commentator, the so-called "crybaby" elements" makes him EXACTLY parallel to the Achilles of the Iliad, a character he was intent on emulating and exceeding".

They conclude by asking "Does this display a typical Anglo-Saxon’s misunderstanding of the emotional temper of Mediterranean masculinity?”.

Agree or disagree anyone?

For full discussion see:

http://community.livejournal.com/megalexandros/52533.html#cutid3



Achilles: Alexander's role model


« Last Edit: October 08, 2007, 02:16:36 AM by magicmountain »
The power of Love came into me
and I became fierce like a lion
then tender like the evening star - Rumi

Offline Brokeback_1

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Re: Travels with Alexander the Great
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2007, 04:05:16 AM »
I emphatically completely and absolutely agree with that statement. ATG saw himself as Achilles, no one else. He slept with Iliad under his pillow as a boy. He determined to BECOME Achilles. There are a lot of ancient authors who simply accept this, and there is no reason not to. It is known that when he captured the Great King's  treasure at Issos, he took the most beautiful casket he could find and placed in it his annotated-by-Aristotle-copy-of.... Iliad.

He was Achilles.

Hephaistion was Patroklos.

This is heart and soul of his legend in the ancient world, he was the epitome of the Hero.
There was some open space between what he knew and what he tried to believe but nothing could be done about it, & if you can't fix it, you've got to stand it

Offline magicmountain

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Re: Travels with Alexander the Great
« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2007, 05:24:05 AM »
I emphatically completely and absolutely agree with that statement. ATG saw himself as Achilles, no one else. He slept with Iliad under his pillow as a boy. He determined to BECOME Achilles. There are a lot of ancient authors who simply accept this, and there is no reason not to. It is known that when he captured the Great King's  treasure at Issos, he took the most beautiful casket he could find and placed in it his annotated-by-Aristotle-copy-of.... Iliad.

He was Achilles.

Hephaistion was Patroklos.

This is heart and soul of his legend in the ancient world, he was the epitome of the Hero.

BB do you think Alexander was not only emulating but competing with Achilles?

PS Did you see my earlier post on this page re tracking down the statue that Peyrolle used as a model for his painting of Alex?
The power of Love came into me
and I became fierce like a lion
then tender like the evening star - Rumi

Offline Brokeback_1

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Re: Travels with Alexander the Great
« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2007, 05:29:03 AM »
emulating and competing.

yes i did. thing is the computer is so slow for some reason that I figured I'd wait until tomorrow to check them out!
There was some open space between what he knew and what he tried to believe but nothing could be done about it, & if you can't fix it, you've got to stand it

Offline Nikki

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Re: Travels with Alexander the Great
« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2007, 08:07:08 AM »


Jo, the preggers segment was a stunner!  LOL  I don't want my Hep the Hawt to loose his figure.  After all, the child of Achilles and Petroklos would have to be a little god, no? Does that mean their child could be born of a miraculous conception, LOL   They epitimize Achilles  and Petroklos - they don't have to complete they are A&P!!

Will check out the links when I return later. Rock on.....

N

The shirts hanging on a nail shudder slightly in the draft.

If he does not force his attention on it, it might stoke the day, rewarm that old, cold time on the mountain when they owned the world and nothing seemed wrong.

Bliss was it in that dawn to be alive
But to be young was very heaven!

Offline magicmountain

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Re: Travels with Alexander the Great
« Reply #25 on: October 08, 2007, 03:41:03 PM »
Did I ever tell you you’re my hero? :-*



“It is a lovely thing to live with courage, and die leaving an everlasting fame." Alexander the Great

I recently came across an unreadable academic article on Medieval Masculinities which nevertheless shed some light on why people, particularly men, look up to heroes like Alexander and why heroism is a dead end – for the hero!

Heroes like Alexander and Achilles are hypermasculine.

"Generally, the hero represents a kind of hypermasculinity, an exaggerated and perhaps idealized version of maleness that is promulgated with a social intention: ordinary men are to measure themselves against the impossible standard that the hero embodies, and from this conditioned inadequacy strive to fight harder and control themselves better."

Heroes like Alexander and Achilles are great to have around in a war – but what happens when the battle ends?

"One of the great problems of societies with warrior castes ... is what to do with these hypermasculine types when they are not doing their thing on the battlefield … once the enemy has been defeated, or the time of war has come to an end. Perhaps the problem is solved by having the hero live a short but spectacular life, so that "heroic masculinity has its longest and truest life in distilled form, in posthumous glory".

Heroes are not more masculine than other men.

"The many "dead-ends of heroism" (short life, absence of descendants, absence of ruling power or wealth) might indicate that martial heroes are not more masculine than other men, only differently and more narrowly so."   Well, that's OK then!

Heroism is impossible but desirable.

The necessary end for heroism is death, even if that death is construed as a valorization through "glory" of the preceding life; and so heroism as a gender code has built within its deep structure the inevitability of its own passing, and to a degree, its own failure. Heroism incorporates a nostalgia for a time that never was but ought to be again. Ultimately, however, if heroism endures, it survives because of its complex arousal of approval, admiration, wonder, and longing. That it is impossible renders it more, not less, desirable."

A lot of the above would seem to apply to Alexander. His early death. His impossible achievements at the age of 32 – like conquering much of the known world! The way he turned into an unstoppable fighting machine long after the battle for empire was over and won. What to do with the hero after the battle is over and everyone else just wants to go home? Some suspect Alexander was poisoned even as he was planning another military adventure in Arabia.

Final question

Why then do people who are unencumbered by a desire to prove themselves every 24 hours by conquering something look up to heroes? I can supply an answer in three words: Because they’re hawt!

Heroic souls who wish to read the article can find it at
http://www8.georgetown.edu/departments/medieval/labyrinth/e-center/interscripta/mm.html




The power of Love came into me
and I became fierce like a lion
then tender like the evening star - Rumi

Offline Nikki

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Re: Travels with Alexander the Great
« Reply #26 on: October 08, 2007, 03:55:34 PM »
Did I ever tell you you’re my hero? :-*


Final question

Why then do people who are unencumbered by a desire to prove themselves every 24 hours by conquering something look up to heroes? I can supply an answer in three words: Because they’re hawt!


OH yeah ---- "Give me some men who are stouthearted men who will fight for the man they adore
                 Shoulder to shoulder and bolder and bolder and then give me ten thousand more."
                 
See rest of my post/song on TPB thread.





[/quote]
The shirts hanging on a nail shudder slightly in the draft.

If he does not force his attention on it, it might stoke the day, rewarm that old, cold time on the mountain when they owned the world and nothing seemed wrong.

Bliss was it in that dawn to be alive
But to be young was very heaven!

Offline magicmountain

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Re: Travels with Alexander the Great
« Reply #27 on: October 08, 2007, 04:00:51 PM »


Jo, the preggers segment was a stunner!  LOL  I don't want my Hep the Hawt to loose his figure.  After all, the child of Achilles and Petroklos would have to be a little god, no? Does that mean their child could be born of a miraculous conception, LOL   They epitimize Achilles  and Petroklos - they don't have to complete they are A&P!!

Will check out the links when I return later. Rock on.....

N



Achilles and Patroklus - history's first heroic boyfriends!

The power of Love came into me
and I became fierce like a lion
then tender like the evening star - Rumi

Offline magicmountain

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Re: Travels with Alexander the Great
« Reply #28 on: October 08, 2007, 04:05:09 PM »

                 Shoulder to shoulder and bolder and bolder and then give me ten thousand more."
                 

Nikki you are insatiable!
The power of Love came into me
and I became fierce like a lion
then tender like the evening star - Rumi

Offline magicmountain

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Re: Travels with Alexander the Great
« Reply #29 on: October 08, 2007, 04:26:25 PM »
Meanwhile back on the Road to Morocco



We’ve marched through deserts, starved in the mountains, conquered the Persian Empire,
laid siege to hundreds of towns and chucked out the Taliban. What more do you want?





Come on guys! Just one more fort to storm and we reach the end of the world!




You go ahead and storm – we’ll stay here and drizzle.

The power of Love came into me
and I became fierce like a lion
then tender like the evening star - Rumi