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Author Topic: Travels with Alexander the Great  (Read 1507625 times)

Online fritzkep

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Re: Travels with Alexander the Great
« Reply #45 on: October 10, 2007, 03:59:04 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9xbO7PiwJw&mode=related&search=

(View full screen for best effect!)


Great video! Could anyone tell me please what the name of that piece of music is, and who's performing it?

Werd ich zum Augenblicke sagen, "Verweile doch! Du bist so schön..."

Offline magicmountain

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Re: Travels with Alexander the Great
« Reply #46 on: October 10, 2007, 05:06:21 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9xbO7PiwJw&mode=related&search=

(View full screen for best effect!)


Great video! Could anyone tell me please what the name of that piece of music is, and who's performing it?



Hi Fritz,

Welcome to the march!

This song is entitled Adiemus and is sung by Enya. Literally translated, it means 'we will draw near'. The composer, Karl Jenkins was  apparently unaware of the word's meaning when he created it. He believed it to be an invented word of his own imagination.

Here is the story of the song.

http://www.karljenkins.com/adiemus_story.php

Here is a live version with massed choir!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vrhgk8Fa_QE
The power of Love came into me
and I became fierce like a lion
then tender like the evening star - Rumi

Online fritzkep

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Re: Travels with Alexander the Great
« Reply #47 on: October 10, 2007, 05:22:19 PM »
Gee, that's great! Thank you! He mentions a slight difference in spelling, the word in Latin would be "aderimus", the plural imperative of which is "adeste", as in the hymn, "Adeste, fideles", "O Come All Ye Faithful".

Sorry, couldn't help that last sentence.

Werd ich zum Augenblicke sagen, "Verweile doch! Du bist so schön..."

Offline magicmountain

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Re: Travels with Alexander the Great
« Reply #48 on: October 10, 2007, 05:25:13 PM »
Gee, that's great! Thank you! He mentions a slight difference in spelling, the word in Latin would be "aderimus", the plural imperative of which is "adeste", as in the hymn, "Adeste, fideles", "O Come All Ye Faithful".

Sorry, couldn't help that last sentence.



Well Alexander sure was joyful and triumphant!
The power of Love came into me
and I became fierce like a lion
then tender like the evening star - Rumi

Offline magicmountain

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Re: Travels with Alexander the Great
« Reply #49 on: October 10, 2007, 05:26:33 PM »
Mushy Macedon Moment



I only have eyes for you.
The power of Love came into me
and I became fierce like a lion
then tender like the evening star - Rumi

Offline Nikki

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Re: Travels with Alexander the Great
« Reply #50 on: October 10, 2007, 05:48:30 PM »


Hey Jo, I thought this thread WAS for fun and games  --  we kept the serious stuff for TPB with occasional laughs and "scholarly" tidbits which can be incorporated here. 

I was one of 2 or 3 who compared Hitler to Alex, and don't regret it.  There were similarities which go without saying -- whoever reads them differently, play it as it lays.

Don't have much fun to inject right now -- will keep the scholarly stuff for TPB.

Later...

N
The shirts hanging on a nail shudder slightly in the draft.

If he does not force his attention on it, it might stoke the day, rewarm that old, cold time on the mountain when they owned the world and nothing seemed wrong.

Bliss was it in that dawn to be alive
But to be young was very heaven!

Offline magicmountain

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Re: Travels with Alexander the Great
« Reply #51 on: October 10, 2007, 06:21:48 PM »


Hey Jo, I thought this thread WAS for fun and games  --  we kept the serious stuff for TPB with occasional laughs and "scholarly" tidbits which can be incorporated here. 

I was one of 2 or 3 who compared Hitler to Alex, and don't regret it.  There were similarities which go without saying -- whoever reads them differently, play it as it lays.

Don't have much fun to inject right now -- will keep the scholarly stuff for TPB.

Later...

N

On starting the thread I wrote: “Any interesting/bizarre tid bits or sidelights or discussion about Alexander and his life and times including creative outbursts relating to ATG are welcome here.” That’s still the case. The focus on the wonderful bizarre tid bits and sidelights has never meant that general discussion about Alexander is excluded. There's room for both!

Don’t’ worry – the fun and games proceed apace.
The power of Love came into me
and I became fierce like a lion
then tender like the evening star - Rumi

Offline magicmountain

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Re: Travels with Alexander the Great
« Reply #52 on: October 10, 2007, 06:39:43 PM »
Weird stuff 1: Alexander and the Emerald Tablet


As with many great figures in history legendary stories quickly grew around Alexander. Even today on the Internet you will find fantastic stories around his life and career. Here is an extract from one such site.

"The Emerald Tablet is one of the most revered documents in the Western World, and its Egyptian author, Hermes Trismegistus, has become synonymous with ancient wisdom. When he conquered Egypt in 332 BC, Alexander the Great, as pharaoh, he gained access to all the treasures of Egypt, including the whereabouts of Hermes’ (Akhenaten's) tomb. Convinced it was his destiny to reveal the ancient secrets, Alexander immediately headed across the Libyan desert to an ancient temple at Siwa near where the tomb was located. According to Albertus Magnus and others, that is where Alexander found the Emerald Tablet. Alexander took the tablet and scrolls he found in the tomb to Heliopolis, where he placed the scrolls in the sacred archives and put the Emerald Tablet on public display.

"Construction of the city of Alexandria to house and study the Hermetic texts was begun immediately, and he assembled a panel of priests and scholars to prepare Greek translations. According to esoteric historian Manly P. Hall, the mysterious Emerald Tablet caused quite a stir. One traveler, who had seen it on display at Heliopolis, wrote: "It is a precious stone, like an emerald, whereon these characters are represented in bas-relief, not engraved. It is esteemed above 2,000 years old. The matter of this emerald had once been in a fluid state like melted glass, and had been cast in a mold, and to this flux the artist had given the hardness of the natural and genuine emerald, by his art."

"When Alexander left Egypt, it has been suggested that he took the original tablet with him and hid it for safekeeping before going on to conquer Babylonia and India. Meanwhile, copies of the tablet became primary documents at Alexandria, and according to some reports, scholars issued revised Greek translations in 290 BC, 270 BC, and 50 BC. Several papyrii in the British Museum mention a canon of Egyptian teachings that included the writings of Hermes that was still in existence at the time of Clement of Alexandria (around 170 CE). Fortunately, before Alexandria's libraries were destroyed in successive burnings by the Romans, Christians, and Muslims, copies of the Emerald Tablet had made their way into Arabia and from there eventually reached Spain and Europe.


"After Alexander died from a fever on his return from India, his body was interred in a tomb somewhere in the Egyptian desert, although to this day, no one knows where. Yet someone did discover the hiding place of the Emerald Tablet. It is said that a brilliant Syrian youth named Balinas found it hidden in a large cavern just outside his hometown of Tyana in Cappadocia. It was Balinas who absorbed the tablet’s teachings and once again brought them to light in the Western world. The youth became known as Apollonius of Tyana (after Apollo, Greek god of enlightenment and brother of Hermes). Respected for his great wisdom and magical powers, Apollonius traveled throughout the world and eventually settled in Alexandria.

"Unfortunately, Apollonius was a contemporary of Christ, and early Christians felt he was much too like their own Son of God. By 400 AD, every one of the scores of books Apollonius wrote in Alexandria and all of the dozens of temples dedicated to him were destroyed by Christian zealots. But Apollonius still stands as the third Hermes in our hyper-history, because he did more than any other person in the modern era to assure that the Emerald Tablet and its principles survived."

From: http://www.alchemylab.com/hyper_history.htm

See Writing on Emerald Tablet at:

http://www.alchemylab.com/emerald_tablet_new_trans.jpg




The power of Love came into me
and I became fierce like a lion
then tender like the evening star - Rumi

Offline Nikki

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Re: Travels with Alexander the Great
« Reply #53 on: October 10, 2007, 08:33:54 PM »


According to Plutarch, The best likeness of Alexander which has been preserved for us is to be found in the statues sculpted by Lysippus, the only artist whom Alexander considered worthy to represent him.  Alexander possessed a number of individual features which many of Lysippus' followers later tried to reproduce, for example the poise of the neck which was tilted slightly to the left, or a certain melting look in his eyes and the artist has exactly caught these peculiarities.

Love the "melting look in the eyes" -- did they melt for Hep??
The shirts hanging on a nail shudder slightly in the draft.

If he does not force his attention on it, it might stoke the day, rewarm that old, cold time on the mountain when they owned the world and nothing seemed wrong.

Bliss was it in that dawn to be alive
But to be young was very heaven!

Offline magicmountain

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Re: Travels with Alexander the Great
« Reply #54 on: October 10, 2007, 09:12:01 PM »


According to Plutarch, The best likeness of Alexander which has been preserved for us is to be found in the statues sculpted by Lysippus, the only artist whom Alexander considered worthy to represent him.  Alexander possessed a number of individual features which many of Lysippus' followers later tried to reproduce, for example the poise of the neck which was tilted slightly to the left, or a certain melting look in his eyes and the artist has exactly caught these peculiarities.

Love the "melting look in the eyes" -- did they melt for Hep??

What do you think! If in doubt, revisit Alex and Heph's Mushy Macedon Moment by scrolling up the page!
The power of Love came into me
and I became fierce like a lion
then tender like the evening star - Rumi

Offline magicmountain

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Re: Travels with Alexander the Great
« Reply #55 on: October 10, 2007, 10:09:54 PM »
The University of Mieza

When Phillip of Macedon decided that his son and heir needed the benefits of a tertiary education he appointed the philosopher Aristotle as his lecturer, tutor and life coach rolled into one. Accompanied by his inner circle of friends, Alexander pursued his studies and exercises at the Temple of the Nymphs, near Mieza,


The campus at Mieza. To this very day, guides will show you Aristotle's stone seats, and
the shady walks where Alexander and his friends strolled while listening to their teacher.

According to Plutarch, it was from Aristotle that Alexander got an inclination to the art of medicine, and learned his “doctrines of Morals, and of Politics”, and that he was such a good student, later on he could give Aristotle a lesson or two. The copy of Homer’s Iliads he always carried with him, “with his dagger under his pillow”, was one “corrected by Aristotle, called the casket copy.”

More information:

http://www.livius.org/aj-al/alexander/alexander_t04.html


But Philip discovers the boys have spent too much time on their anatomy lessons!



You boys sure found a way to pass the time up there. You weren’t paid to let your sisters
babysit the teacher while you sucked the olive!!




God – look who’s talking!
The power of Love came into me
and I became fierce like a lion
then tender like the evening star - Rumi

Offline Brokeback_1

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Re: Travels with Alexander the Great
« Reply #56 on: October 11, 2007, 02:59:16 AM »
LMAOOOOOOO!!!!!
There was some open space between what he knew and what he tried to believe but nothing could be done about it, & if you can't fix it, you've got to stand it

Offline Brokeback_1

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Re: Travels with Alexander the Great
« Reply #57 on: October 11, 2007, 03:06:58 AM »
Nikki, all I urge is NOT judging ATG by the standards of this civilisation, but to judge him by the standards of HIS civilisation. Their is no similarity really---Hitler didn't fight, he orated lies. Alexander fought himself, generaled himself and gave honest talks to the men.

And if those eyes didn't melt for Heph, they never melted at all lolol.

By the way, did you see his portrait, the one on the Alexander Sarcophagus in Istanbul? He was one good lookin dude!

ALL the Lysippian bronzes of the King are are of course lost. Someday we may find one but for this current age they do not exist. There are a few badly damaged roman copies.


There IS a bust in the Archaeological Museum at Istanbul which is a recognised Global Heritage 'thing' but unfortunately for me, when I was there all you could see was an empty pedestal; the bust was,  I think, either at the Louvre in Paris or the Met in New York for a show.

I forget who his favorite painter was; anybody know?
Polygnotos???
I do remember reading that there are supposed to be mosaic renderings of those paintings in Zeugma. I saw a wonderful mosaic which depicted him in the Archaeological Museum at Antioch {Antakya}....
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And that thought has forced me to segue into>>>>> if anybody ever wants to actually visit Antioch don't believe the story that it isn't worth visiting.

It is.

It's one of those places which capture the imagination and heart. Both man and nature have been cruel to Antioch, it has been destroyed time after time. The last destruction was by the Mongols and the city hasn't recovered to this day.

The fortifications--the Wall of Theodosios--are intact for tremendous lengths, particularly on the slopes of the mountain. They are amazing, and defended a huge area. The unexcavated bowl of the Great Theater, the very one where the protagonist  stepped out of his role while performing in  The Persians to exclaim "Do my eyes decieve me, or are the Persians amongst us!", is interesting if you have imagination. It is an unexcavated bowl. But when he stepped out of that role, the Persians WERE amongst them--they had moved so fast they were able to conquer and sack the greatest city in the East while the Romans thought they were 200 miles away. They massacred the audience who could not get out or hide, maybe 50,000 people who would have willingly surrendered [So much for Alexander's Terrorism!]---except for the actors, for Sapor wanted to watch them perform!

From the top of Mount Sylpius, you can see the outlines of the unexcavated sports complex--the Stadion of Domitian, The Seleukid Gymnasia, the temples, all of it. It is HUGE, much bigger then Olympia. And seeing it all in such a clear outline under the ground, defined by the dips and hollows of the structures beneath, is pretty remarkable.

The Iron Gate of the Theodosian walls is still extent and  magnificent. There are the remains of the Citadella atop the mountain. 

For Christians, there is the church of St. Peter, where Catholic mass is still held as it has been held for 2000 years. It is the first Christian Church, and located within  a cave. The sacristan is [unless she has passed away] a lady named Hilda, from Bavaria. She came to Antioch on a brief visit to see the city where Christians were first called christians and never left. You can, if you wish, climb through the escape tunnels which were dug during the Great persecution under Gallienus.....I most certainly did not climb through 1700 year old ratholes in earthquake  country, but supposedly they are safe. There is also a lovely Arab Orthodox Cathedral in the French style, in the center of town, where you can hear something both familiar and foreign in that region: Church Bells. It is very moving; I fell in love with the town when I sat down in my hotel room after a 26 hour bus trip from Kars on December 23rd and couldn't believe I was hearing the sound of...BELLS. I actually went down to the desk to ask if I was hallucinating! The fellow there, [ we became friends and still correspond  ] said  "No, you aren't  hallucinating, there are a lot of Christian's here in town, it used to be a Christian city.  This is Hatay, not Arabia, moslem Antakyans  like the sound of those bells as much as the Christians do..."

However,  the city is no longer Christian>>> the Christians have 1 or 2 kids and the moslems who have come from the country have 10. Between that and immigration from above the Kilikian Gates, Antioch  is a majority moslem town these days. A large majority.

The view of the mountains can be fantastic. They are high and jagged peaks of the Taurus Range, which lies to the east. The Orontes, famous as the source of the scum which polluted Rome back in The Good Olde Days, is canalised through the town center. They did it about 50 or 60  years ago to stop the continual flooding.

The Roman Bridge is gone.

The famous Island is no longer an island, that arm of the river has been filled in. That district is still called Ada however, ie, "Island". It was here that the famous 'Golden house', the first Christian Cathedral to break with Roman forms, was located. Here too, under the ground, is the site of the Royal Palace of the Seleukids and the Imperial Palace of the Roman Emperors. Eleneor of Aquitaine lived on the island. Julian composed his satirical criticism of the Antiocheans, 'On the Beard' while there, for he hated dissolute Antioch and the Antiochenes hated HIM with virulence. They burned the Great Temple at Daphne while he was there, just to piss him off! The Eastern emperors lived on the island whenever they came to town. The city changed hands time after time, going back and forth from Roman to Arab to French to Arab to Roman etc etc etc for centuries. All  that time, with power centered on the island. Today there are modern structures and a few dating from the 14th-15th-16th centuries. But not many. One which stands in my head is a really lovely centuries old mosque with a wonderful garden and a tolerant, friendly mullah.

{**DIGRESSION, a la Ammianus Marcellinus LOL**
Modern Antioch may no longer be dissolute but it is in many ways as live and let live as it's ancient counterpart. I have been told that 'neurotic nervous religious jitteryness' due to Iraq, and Wahabbist fundamentalist money from the Saudis is trying its best to change that, but with little success. The 'islamic' governing poarty in turkey wants an end to corruption, an end to influence peddling, an end to the old boy network, not social or religious revolution. The Antiochean christians are nervous however,primarily because of what they see in other countries...  The Antiochean moslems are nervous because they are under assault from very powerfull, intolerant--and rich--foreign sources who use the God card while attempting to veer Islam in Hatay province  to the right. And BOTH are nervous--I'm serious--that Bush will do something so idiotic the whole region explodes. They have no trust in him and consider george the source of all idiocy.

**END DIGRESSION, a la Ammianus!** }.


There are lovely old homes in various states ranging from decay to complete restoration dating from the 15th through the 18th centuries on the slopes of the mountain. they cost $$$, even in disrepair, and are being restored by Antiochian Yuppies. From the street they don't look like much: they turn inward, the splendour is behind walls.

There is part of an acquaeduct --an arch incorporated into a medieval 9th century house, if I remember right--dating from Trajan's day.

The Museum has the world's finest collection of Roman mosaics. There is none better anywhere. That alone is worth a visit, they are spectacular and if you spend any  amount of time in town and visit more then once the staff KNOWS YOUR NAME.

To get there, you still have to pass the Kilikian Gates as Alexander did. There is no airport, so you drive down from Tarsus. There is nothing in Tarsus but a bridge, but godDAYum what a bridge! Roman, in continual use and enormous. I think it is the longest Roman bridge anywhere. On the way, you pass the forts used by Rome from the 7th through the 12th centuries to defend the frontier against the Arabs.

When you enter the hatay, you drive through Alexandretta, or the Little Alexandria [Iskenderun>>'Alexandria in turkish]. It is unexcavated. it's modern claim to fame is it's status as the port for a major  oil pipeline from the east. You can visit Issos, although there is nothing from antiquity on the site of the battle. The locals have dug up both  Persian and Macedonian artifacts from the site and god help me they illegally sell them on EBAY!!!

LOL but NOT lol.....completely illegal in a nation with maybe the toughest antiquities laws anywhere.

The port of Antioch was Seleukia, an hour away from the city. The town is unexcavated but there are some enormous and famous Roman engineering works at that port dating from Trajan's time.

On the way to the Syrian border down south--not far, and not at all dangerous because damascus knows better then to annoy Ankara--you pass the remains of a famous Hittite settlement excavated by [I think] the Brits. The name has gone clean out of my head! Some of the earliest known human 'towns' are in the region, and can be visited. Some are excavated, some aren't. Either way, what you see are 5,000 year old mud bricks.

No, Antioch ain't Paris>>>it's not Bath either! But Antakya is NICE. One of those dwindling off the beaten track places which are just oh-so-nice to be. To vegetate in. I wrote a LOT there,maybe half my travelogue--- Antioch  inspires creativity, inspires imagination. It will someday be excavated and partially restored but today there is neither reason nor motivation to do so---nobody goes there, it's not Ephesos or Miletos or Priene or Troy. It IS the site of the Queen of the East, and her monuments, temples, basilicae, forum are all there, patiently awaiting the excavator's spade.

And I would go back there, yes, today, in 2 seconds flat. Like all of Turkey but the far southeast, it is completely safe--- and the people are lovely. They're a nice mix in the Hatay, a lively mix.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2007, 05:11:07 AM by Brokeback_1 »
There was some open space between what he knew and what he tried to believe but nothing could be done about it, & if you can't fix it, you've got to stand it

Offline magicmountain

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Re: Travels with Alexander the Great
« Reply #58 on: October 11, 2007, 04:31:22 AM »
Radio Alex

The radio program Talk of the Nation (November 25, 2004) featured Alexander the Great. NPR's Neal Conan and guests Paul Cartledge, professor of Greek history at Cambridge University and Barry Strauss, classics professor at Cornell University, discuss the man and the world he changed and answer questions from listeners.

Click http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4187516

Then click on Listen.
The power of Love came into me
and I became fierce like a lion
then tender like the evening star - Rumi

Offline magicmountain

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Re: Travels with Alexander the Great
« Reply #59 on: October 11, 2007, 05:57:19 AM »
Quote
By the way, did you see his portrait, the one on the Alexander Sarcophagus in Istanbul? He was one good lookin dude!

Sure was! Here Alexander is depicted on one panel of the sarcophagus in a battle scene on his horse Bucephalus.



And here is is shown on the left in a hunting scene.



Note: The Alexander Sarcophagus is a 4th century BC stone sarcophagus adorned with bas-relief carvings of Alexander the Great. Discovered in the necropolis near Sidon, Lebanon in 1887, the piece is on display at the Istanbul Archaeology Museum. Originally thought to have been the sarcophagus of Abdalonymus, the king of Sidon appointed by Alexander, some scholars now believe the sarcophagus was that of Mazaeus, a Persian noble and governor of Babylon. The sarcophagus containing the mummified body of Alexander was displayed in a temple in Alexandria. It disappeared from view in the third century AD and has never been found.

Quote
I forget who his favorite painter was; anybody know?

I think it was Apelles. Here is one of his paintings of Alex.

The power of Love came into me
and I became fierce like a lion
then tender like the evening star - Rumi