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Author Topic: BBM General Discussion 2  (Read 301907 times)

Marc

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Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2008, 02:10:12 PM »
That's interesting and I'll look for it.  I don't know shooting, but I'm surprised his hands would be injured in the process.

Until now, the only thing like that I'd spotted was before and after Heath had his ears pierced.  For example, not pierced at the bar, and pierced at Jack's parents' house.  I don't think they were pierced at the motel.

And Heath has beautiful ears.  In addition to having a smile that would light up the dark side of the moon.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2008, 02:37:53 PM by Marc »

Offline wintersweet

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Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2008, 03:14:29 PM »
I don't think it was injury, might just be bad bug bites or poked by the twigs,etc. Not big deal at all, but certainly added  something to the  close scrutiny.

Offline CANSTANDIT

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Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2008, 09:17:16 PM »
But for them to not hide the, makes me think a statement is being made-I vote they are the way most ranchers' hands look, not only form the sun, but from campfires and branding animals-and anything else involving fire......like maybe nookie with Jack Twist.

Offline wintersweet

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Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2008, 10:50:12 PM »
Yes, I think it just worked into the situation, even accidentally. Somehow the tattoo on Heath's wrist wasn't covered up either.

Marc

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Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2008, 09:22:43 AM »
I hate to contradict myself, but so be it.  My earlier theory that Jack wasn't exposed to AIDS because he was having sex only w/ Randall and Ennis has a problem.  If Jack was killed, I thought the most likely cause was that he'd made a pass at the wrong guy.  This was something of a bookend w/ the pass he made at Jimbo in the bar.  But if Jack was making passes at guys, then he was still having sex w/ strangers in 1982, or trying to.

This movie has a lot of blanks to fill in.

Offline doodler

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Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2008, 11:19:31 AM »
I hate to contradict myself, but so be it.  My earlier theory that Jack wasn't exposed to AIDS because he was having sex only w/ Randall and Ennis has a problem.  If Jack was killed, I thought the most likely cause was that he'd made a pass at the wrong guy.  This was something of a bookend w/ the pass he made at Jimbo in the bar.  But if Jack was making passes at guys, then he was still having sex w/ strangers in 1982, or trying to.

This movie has a lot of blanks to fill in.

In the SS Jack isn't just sitting around waiting for his get-togethers with Ennis and just because we SEE only his failed attempt with Jimbo, and ONE trip to Mexico and the intro to a POSSIBLE relationship with Randall doesn't mean those were the only times he didn't "roll his own." (We don't see him eating dinner with anyone but Ennis, except for the one Thanksgiving scene, but we know he ate.) Also, even if you believe those were the only contacts Jack had that doesn't mean Senor and Randall were unexposed to HIV. I agree with whomever that the story was timed to keep AIDS ou of it.
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Offline Ellen (tellyouwhat)

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Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2008, 11:45:03 AM »
I agree that we are supposed to make the assumption Jack has more opportunities than Jimbo and one trip to Mexico.  We even have Randall making the pass at Jack -- the embodiment of Annie Proulx' ranch foreman's "wife" story.

Either way guys, in my opinion looking for meaning in the lack of AIDS influence in the story is barking up a very remote tree.  It would have been the farthest thing from Ennis' mind.  Even if he heard about it he wouldn't have feared it.  He was in such denial.

Is the timing of the story a manipulation on Annie Proulx' part?  Well, maybe, except IMO it is more than justified, since so many of us can actually remember adult life without AIDS. 
sometimes I think life is just a rodeo the trick is to ride and make it 'til the bell --john fogerty

Offline Desecra

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Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2008, 12:34:47 PM »
I kind of agree on Ennis not applying it to himself during Jack's lifetime.   I just think it's interesting that after Jack's death (and after Ennis acknowledging Jack's sexuality, knowing for sure about other men and starting to accept it) AIDS would be more in the news.   I agree that he could avoid it up until that point, but afterwards .... I just wonder if he connected it to Jack.   I like CSI's point about the real fear of AIDS.  It's an irony that had Jack lived, if they'd gone on the way they were going it might have been a real risk for both of them, whereas if Ennis had consented to live with Jack earlier it wouldn't have been a risk.-
Unless, I say otherwise, I'm probably talking about the short story, not the movie. :)

Offline garyd

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Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2008, 06:26:10 PM »
There have been approximately 225 AIDS cases reported in Wyoming since the outbreak of the epidemic.  There were  none reported in 1983.  I don't know what radio station listened to or what newspapers he might have read. but AIDS was not big news in Wyoming and Ennis was not , it seems to me, the inquisitive sort.  Christ, he thought so little of himself and was so depressed,he peed in his sink.  I think we are perhaps looking for things that don't exist.

Offline wintersweet

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Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2008, 07:55:23 PM »
I agree with you, garyd.

Offline chapeaugris

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Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2008, 12:08:44 AM »
In the spring of 2006, when I was seeking out every smidgen of info on the story and the film, I read a little interview with AP in which she said that she decided at the outset to have the story span 20 years. She wanted it to begin when the west and the economics of ranching  were changing and said that the early sixties was the latest possible start date. She did not say so but the implication was clear that AIDS would have been too complicating a factor. I have searched for this interview ever since the subject came up on this or another thread sometime back but cant  even remember if it was online. So you will just have to take my word for it.  :)

Offline Desecra

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Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2008, 12:28:54 AM »
I didn't realise that AIDS didn't get to be news in Wyoming - I'm used to national news in the UK, and had just assumed that the whole of the US got the news.    Over here, it was big news after 1983 - I do remember people talking about it a lot.  There were demos of how to put condoms on on TV, etc., and there seemed to be changes in the way casual sex was shown in popular culture  (I remember that in the next Bond film, Bond was monogamous) - if I remember correctly we all had a letter through the door about it.   It would have been impossible to miss it here, but if there wasn't publicity in Wyoming, I suppose Ennis could have missed it altogether - I hadn't even thought of that. 

Thanks for the info, Chapeaugris.   I feel that the timing did sidestep the issue before Jack's death - I really don't think it would be something Jack would have considered much.    But at the same time, it puts Ennis's slow-dawning awareness and acceptance right into the AIDS era.
Unless, I say otherwise, I'm probably talking about the short story, not the movie. :)

Offline afhickman

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Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2008, 03:34:45 AM »
I can't find anywhere else to post this, so I'll try it here.  Eric Patterson has written an insightful article on Brokeback, the book and film, that is available to read on the GLBTQ encyclopedia site: http://www.glbtq.com/sfeatures/pattersonbrokeback.html.  It's been so long, I don't remember how to make that a live link, but, if you can cut and paste, you'll get there.  I don't agree with all of Patterson's conclusions, but his article is an ambitious attempt to place Brokeback within the context of gay history and present-day attitudes.  Both the short story and film continue to provoke meaningful discussion.
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Offline Ministering angel

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Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #28 on: January 16, 2008, 03:52:55 AM »
That link works fine. Thanks for bringing a really thoughtful article to my attention.

Offline Ellen (tellyouwhat)

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Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #29 on: January 16, 2008, 08:47:22 AM »
I can't find anywhere else to post this, so I'll try it here.  Eric Patterson has written an insightful article on Brokeback, the book and film, that is available to read on the GLBTQ encyclopedia site: http://www.glbtq.com/sfeatures/pattersonbrokeback.html.  It's been so long, I don't remember how to make that a live link, but, if you can cut and paste, you'll get there.  I don't agree with all of Patterson's conclusions, but his article is an ambitious attempt to place Brokeback within the context of gay history and present-day attitudes.  Both the short story and film continue to provoke meaningful discussion.


It is a good article, and fyi, Eric Patterson has agreed to do an interview for our Daily Sheet.  We may even ask him to do a live author chat in books if he is willing.   :)
sometimes I think life is just a rodeo the trick is to ride and make it 'til the bell --john fogerty