Gay and Christian in the World of Today II

[BayCityJohn]

Love Under Siege

Written by Reverend Ali Wurm | 30 June 2011

The Reverend Ali Wurm tells blaze about the pressures that led her to resign as priest in charge of St. Bede's Anglican Parish Semaphore.

Love Under Siege is the name of the theological discussion evening I organised four years ago at St. Bede's Anglican Parish Semaphore where I am the Priest-in-Charge. It was a cold winter's night but that didn't stop about 80 brave souls from coming to watch Brokeback Mountain at the local Odeon cinema then join in a wine & cheese theological discussion. How ironic that I was berated by my hierarchy for organising such an event!

St. Bede's congregation is made up of a core group of 40 people with a good half being in their 70s and 80s. We're a small, poor parish but blessed to have inherited a beautiful sacred space from our spiritual forbears who built the church 142 years ago. I remember the week leading up to the Love Under Siege evening when some of my parishioners were getting nervous about St. Bede's hosting such a do (flyers were plastered across the neighbourhood and we ran an ad in the local rag & blaze). After our Sunday worship, during Open Forum we discussed the anticipated event. I asked those who were willing to raise their hand if they were gay, or knew someone in their family who was gay. There we were, the people of St. Bede's, all with raised arms. I felt a sigh of relief between us all: 'It's out - we are all connected to gays, love gays, care about gays, or are gays' (although I definitely was the only gay in the village then and sadly still so four years later!!) This is the truth about the people we love, and when we acknowledge this, we are freed up from repressive clap trap and can get on with the loving we are committed to! I suggested we hold hands, take a big breath, be courageous, and dive in as a community of faith. Praise God no one objected and so we braced ourselves and took the plunge.


more...


http://blaze.gaynewsnetwork.com.au/feature/love-under-siege-004567.html

[Marge_Innavera]

Hi,

I haven't posted in this thread before, but thought I'd share this this Associated Press story.  It looks like an interesting development in Biblical scholarship.


An Israeli algorithm sheds light on the holy book
...
by Matti Friedman, Associated Press

JERUSALEM - Software developed by an Israeli team is giving intriguing new hints about what researchers believe to be the multiple hands that wrote the Bible.

The new software analyzes style and word choices to distinguish parts of a single text written by different authors, and when applied to the Bible its algorithm teased out distinct writerly voices in the holy book.

The program, part of a sub-field of artificial intelligence studies known as authorship attribution, has a range of potential applications - from helping law enforcement to developing new computer programs for writers. But the Bible provided a tempting test case for the algorithm's creators.



full story at http://www.thetandd.com/lifestyles/faith-and-values/article_ce7b2d98-a38d-11e0-b887-001cc4c03286.html

[Sandy]

Thanks, Marge, for teh citation.

Actually, Biblical scholarship in the 19th century began teasing out different authorial voices. It's probably the single most analyzed text in history. But it's good to know that new tools are being brought to bear on the process.

[fritzkep]

Of course, that won't please those who believe the Bible was in God's own handwriting. In English, of course.

[DaveinPhilly]

Of course, that won't please those who believe the Bible was in God's own handwriting. In English, of course.

Yeah...

[Nikki]

 
   In the past two weeks, controversy has swirled like a maelstrom around Congressman Anthony Weiner because he twittered e-pictures of himself in various stages of undress; pictures that included shots of his erect penis and pendulous testicles.
  In the history of Western Art, there are countless examples of the undraped male body that clearly depict male genitalia.
   

Well, maybe Weiner would have enjoyed his reflection in a mirror in the privacy of his own home rather than subjecting the world to his "erect penis and pendulous testicles."  Can you say "yuck"?  His man boobs didn't help his image either.

In the history of Western art, one of the most beautiful examples of the male body is Michelangelo's 'David.'  I have seen it up close and personal twice in Florence and the thought of Weiner and his 'package' in comparison is ludicrous.

[fritzkep]

Sculptors did tend to idealize the body, male and female. Or else had some fantastic models.

I haven't seen the pics. I don't suppose I'm missing much.

[BayCityJohn]

Clash with gays splits Anglican church

A PRIEST who quit over homophobic abuse wants her resignation to cause greater inclusion of gays.

The Rev Ali Wurm - who announced last month she was leaving Semaphore's St Bede's Anglican Parish after being subjected to bullying and threats related to her sexuality - also called on senior Anglicans to show stronger leadership to resolve internal tensions surrounding the issue.

A former Dean of Adelaide, Dr Steven Ogden, said the circumstances surrounding Ms Wurm's departure was of "national significance" and must be debated in the church.

----------------------------------------------------
Ms Wurm also recounted being "berated" by a senior Anglican after organising a theological discussion involving 80 people after a screening of the film Brokeback Mountain.

---------------------------

Full article:

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/clash-with-gays-splits-anglican-church/story-e6frea6u-1226086303531

[Zadd]

Love Under Siege

Written by Reverend Ali Wurm | 30 June 2011

The Reverend Ali Wurm tells blaze about the pressures that led her to resign as priest in charge of St. Bede's Anglican Parish Semaphore.

Love Under Siege is the name of the theological discussion evening I organised four years ago at St. Bede's Anglican Parish Semaphore where I am the Priest-in-Charge. It was a cold winter's night but that didn't stop about 80 brave souls from coming to watch Brokeback Mountain at the local Odeon cinema then join in a wine & cheese theological discussion. How ironic that I was berated by my hierarchy for organising such an event!

  <snip>This is the truth about the people we love, and when we acknowledge this, we are freed up from repressive clap trap and can get on with the loving we are committed to.<snip>

http://blaze.gaynewsnetwork.com.au/feature/love-under-siege-004567.html

Thanks BCJ.

  A very moving piece.

  How very sad that this spiritually gifted priest decided to leave her post after organizing a showing of "Brokeback Mountain", and a wine and cheese theological discussion thereafter.

  I'm wondering just what Rev. Wurm touched upon during that 'theological discussion'...?

  Jesus, the Christ, when questioned by Pontius Pilate as to whether he was a king, answered,  "To this end was I born, and to this end came I into the world, to bear witness unto the truth.  Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice." John 19:37 KJ

  Just before his capture in Gethsemane, he spoke to his disciples telling them, "Many more things have I to say unto you, but you  cannot bear them now." John 16:12 KJ
  
  Rev. Wurm set about to reveal 'the truth about the people we love' saying that when we acknowledge this ('the truth'), 'we are freed up from the repressive clap-trap' and can then 'get on with the loving that we are (read, should be!) committed to' (as Christians!)

  Clearly, Rev. Wurm's superiors 'cannot bear' the truth "Brokeback Mountain" presented, nor 'the truth about the people we love' she speaks of.
  Their minds are still held captive by what she terms repressive clap-trap.
Should we see them as unevolved, merely embryonic Christians...?
  
  Regarding the inability of Christ's followers to recieve 'the truth', he tells them that after his departure, he will send them 'the Spirit of Truth' who will guide them into all truth.
  And John tells us in 8:32, Jesus said, "...you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."
  The Christ also refers to this great Spirit as 'the Comforter'; we know him as The Holy Spirit.

  Here's what I'm left with after all this.  
  Could it be possible that this lesbian Priest has been indwelt of the Holy Spirit, while her immediate clergy superiors are not..?

  I am reminded of Christ's admonition in Matthew 8:21 "Not everyone that saith unto me 'Lord, Lord' shall enter into the Kingdom of Heaven, but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in Heaven."

  your brother,
    Zadd

  

[Nikki]

  Nikki

    I do believe you've mis-read my post, for nowhere did I even suggest such a comparison.
 
  BTW, 'man boobs' as you put it.... , are properly refered to as 'pectorals' - and I for one, found his 'gym body' quite toned and 'in shape'!
Oh well....., as the French say chacun a son gout....!!

 
 

I know you didn't suggest a comparison -- I was referring to my own comparison of Weiner and his 'shortcomings' to the David in Florence which is iconic in classical Western art.

Did you seriously mean you found Weiner's body toned?   Each to his own taste, as the farmer said when he kissed the cow. Yes, I know what pecs are - 'manboobs' for short.

[Nikki]

 Nikki

  Hello again.  I appreciate your taking a few moments to clarify what you meant.

  As for the depiction of the erect penis in Western art, pre-Christian Rome had such images almost commonplace.
There are hanging oil lamps that are in the form of the erect penis with wings and 'balls' that are realistically rendered.
  You are probably familiar with the fact that they were fertility symbols.  Some were made into amulets.

Yes, I know about the penis as fertility symbol.  When I visited Pompey years ago,  there was a house which still retained paintings including one of the biggest penises I ever saw (not that I'm a  penis connoisseur), but I've seen them  artistically portrayed.  However, to get back to our original postings re: Weiner, I would hardly compare his to a fertility symbol and, to wind up this discussion, his email had nothing to do with art or symbolism, but rather it seems to have been posted by a man who had 'issues' and the need to reveal himself to women who he may have thought would be overwhelmed by his penis as a 'wow' factor. Since he appears to have gone for 'treatment,' maybe he will realize he's just another flasher not in a raincoat on a dark street, but in cyberspace .

That's all I can contribute to this futile discussion which has become OT on this thread about Gay and Christian in the World of Today.

[Jeff Wrangler]

Yes, I know what pecs are - 'manboobs' for short.

FWIW, it's my understanding that "manboobs" is a derogatory term for flabby, pendulous, saggy male breasts, not a synonym for "pecs." In fact, my understanding is that "manboobs" is actually an antonym of "pecs."

At least, that's the way Chandler used the term in an episode of Friends.   

[Nikki]

FWIW, it's my understanding that "manboobs" is a derogatory term for flabby, pendulous, saggy male breasts, not a synonym for "pecs." In fact, my understanding is that "manboobs" is actually an antonym of "pecs."

At least, that's the way Chandler used the term in an episode of Friends.   

Right, Jeff.  I used the term in relation to Weiner who certainly does not appeared toned and buff, but rather a bit saggy IMO.  Never cared much for Friends.

[Nikki]

    Nikki'

  Re: your belief that this discussion is 'futile', I must say, I heartily disagree!  At least, I'm finding your statements about male genitalia most interesting...!
  About it being OT....,  I'm Gay, I'm Christian, and I am alive in the World of Today!!  And I do believe that discussions that might center around current attitudes regarding human sexual behavior, are well within the parameters of this Thread.

But this discussion didn't center around "human sexual behavior," it started with comments -- yours and mine -- about Weiner and his 'goodies.'
[/quote]

  After all, doesn't Dave Cullen's very blogsite exist on a foundation of an astounding, breakthrough movie about 'two cowboys in love'?
Two beautiful masculine men exchanging deep wet kisses, caressing, body on body, making man on man love - and shown on the 'big screen' virtually worldwide...!

Yes, but it's about the story of 2 'cowboys in love,' and the effect of rural homophobia not about their genitalia.

[/quote]

  Besides, being familiar with Sandi's 'M.O.', I believe he would have already intervened to notify me/us of being OT, if he thought this discussion were.


You mean 'Sandy'?  I'm not familiar with his M.O., but I am straight, Christian and read this thread often to learn about the gay community and its relationship to being Christian in a society that has been less than welcoming to it.  I don't believe that a discussion of male genitalia in classic art or on flaky politicians is relevant to the topic.

[/quote]

[Nikki]

  Nikki

    You certainly have the right to believe what you will...., but, ultimately whether or not a discussion such as appeared here is OT, is really not your call.
  Perhaps, Sandy might step in here to resolve this matter.

You misinterpreted -- no, it's not my call; it's my opinion.  To avoid further discussion/argument/opinion, this is my last word on the matter.