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Author Topic: Presidential transition/Inauguration 2009 and beyond/CLOSED  (Read 128293 times)

Offline Rosewood

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Re: Presidential transition/Inauguration 2009 and beyond
« Reply #30 on: December 11, 2008, 05:24:30 PM »
Will his pay be performance based? :o

I mean, I know he's got a contract -- presumably for one season. ::)

of course, that ought to be enough to last him quite a while

Well, in truth, he had to be wooed to come to NYC.
(I think he's been building a house out west somewhere.)
No, the 160 is over a seven year period though he has a three year out clause.
The Yankees went to him hat in hand, desperate for a good pitcher.

The money, I understand, is guaranteed no matter what. :o ::)
(Nice work if you can get it.)
And this doesn't count, I'm assuming, bonuses and such should his team reach
the Playoffs, the World Series or should he win the Cy Young or any other awards.
There's usually something extra set aside in the kitty for that.

Ah, the life of a major league baseball player.
It's tough, but somebody has to do it.
"Tut, tut, child," said the Duchess.
"Everything's got a moral if only you can find it."
                                                  Lewis Carroll

Offline Ellen (tellyouwhat)

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Re: Presidential transition/Inauguration 2009 and beyond
« Reply #31 on: December 11, 2008, 06:06:37 PM »

Should baseball ever go to Congress requesting a bail out then I suppose
we should develop a government office to regulate player compensation.

this caused a  :)

but who knows, maybe baseball IS too big to fail, in which case the committee would have to be formed, just as you say.

Quote
Or we could avoid the whole free market untidy mess and just legislate that all
jobs/professions are equally important to the health and well-being of society and
have government mandate that everyone be paid exactly the same.


I wouldn't go quite that far, Gary.  ;)
sometimes I think life is just a rodeo the trick is to ride and make it 'til the bell --john fogerty

Offline garyd

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Re: Presidential transition/Inauguration 2009 and beyond
« Reply #32 on: December 11, 2008, 07:31:41 PM »

I wouldn't go quite that far, Gary.  ;)

Oh, I know, I know, you really wouldn't.  And I truly do know that deep down.
You can still push my buttons for some reason and I immediately
go into knee jerk mode.
We need to figure out a way to fix a lot of stuff.
I sincerely hope,and actually believe,
that some one like the President Elect can  and will
provide the leadership, leadership by example,
that provides a template for all of us to move beyond
the polarizing "quips" that erect barriers to progress.

"that"?, "which"?
Sandy where are you?

Offline garyd

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Re: Presidential transition/Inauguration 2009 and beyond
« Reply #33 on: December 11, 2008, 09:01:47 PM »
ORRRRR.....
maybe this is what is going on.
(from another site that has made my family give up hope on my sanity)

Schopenhauer,
"on the other hand, would treat of the intercourse between two rational beings who, because they are rational, ought to think in common, but who, as soon as they cease to agree like two clocks keeping exactly the same time, create a disputation, or intellectual contest. Regarded as purely rational beings, the individuals would, I say, necessarily be in agreement, and their variation springs from the difference essential to individuality; in other words, it is drawn from experience."

cool,huh.

Offline brokebacktom

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Re: Presidential transition/Inauguration 2009 and beyond
« Reply #34 on: December 12, 2008, 06:31:06 AM »
Watch this video Powell slam Palin and Rush. Way to go Colin. Probally the only GOP I trust right now. Theres a few other Ron Paul. Chuck Hagel and few others. A very few others.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/11/colin-powell-slams-sarah_n_150394.html

Offline brokebacktom

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Re: Presidential transition/Inauguration 2009 and beyond
« Reply #35 on: December 12, 2008, 06:37:00 AM »
No Bailout for teh Auto Makers. I know this would happen. Its called bust the union, not save them. WOW!!!


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/12/auto-bailout-failure-coul_n_150454.html

Offline Ellen (tellyouwhat)

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Re: Presidential transition/Inauguration 2009 and beyond
« Reply #36 on: December 12, 2008, 08:05:06 AM »
No Bailout for teh Auto Makers. I know this would happen. Its called bust the union, not save them. WOW!!!


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/12/auto-bailout-failure-coul_n_150454.html


yeah, that is what struck me too -- the emphasis on "not enough deep paycuts for the workers"-- not deep enough, not soon enough.

And yet with the bank bailout there are no requirements, no details, no limits on executive pay and bonuses.
sometimes I think life is just a rodeo the trick is to ride and make it 'til the bell --john fogerty

Offline brokebacktom

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Re: Presidential transition/Inauguration 2009 and beyond
« Reply #37 on: December 12, 2008, 08:07:56 AM »
Coleman is in even more HOT water. Boy he looks like A Stevens all over again.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/12/norm-coleman-needed-money_n_150484.html

Offline Ellen (tellyouwhat)

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Re: Presidential transition/Inauguration 2009 and beyond
« Reply #38 on: December 12, 2008, 08:17:52 AM »
ORRRRR.....
maybe this is what is going on.
(from another site that has made my family give up hope on my sanity)

Schopenhauer,
"on the other hand, would treat of the intercourse between two rational beings who, because they are rational, ought to think in common, but who, as soon as they cease to agree like two clocks keeping exactly the same time, create a disputation, or intellectual contest. Regarded as purely rational beings, the individuals would, I say, necessarily be in agreement, and their variation springs from the difference essential to individuality; in other words, it is drawn from experience."

cool,huh.


Yeah, REALLY cool.

This is what I am coming to believe -- we are all staggering out of a bi-polar century -- wherein two theories, socialism and capitalism, have been at war.

In fact, it really is not necessary to be ABSOLUTELY totally in a communist frame of mind, if you are a socialist (I wouldn't describe myself that way, btw)

And if you are a capitalist, it has been twice proved that too much unbridled "capitalism" gets us into the kind of mess we find ourselves in right now.  A lot of common sense and precaution are thrown out the window in the name of the free market.  I repeat, as long as business enjoys subsidies and friendly lawmakers, the market is not free-- the buyers, consumers, families, workers, do not have the requisite power to provide the balance that you would see in a farmer's market.

Bottom line, a lot of nice people feel it is their duty to defend the outrageous salaries of CEOs and entertainers (in which category baseball players belong) when in fact that is like putting you in the position of defending the pronunciation "nukular" if you happen to be a Republican.  I don't believe you personally have fallen into that trap but quite a few have done so even though they know the pronunciation is ridiculous and could be corrected in a split second if the person really wanted to correct it (SARAH PALIN, for example.)

Nice conservative people should not have to defend the CEOs who are taking their bonuses in bad times such as these, while they lay off their workers in the name of "survival."

There needs to be a middle ground, which we had for part of the century after Roosevelt.

sometimes I think life is just a rodeo the trick is to ride and make it 'til the bell --john fogerty

Offline brokebacktom

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Re: Presidential transition/Inauguration 2009 and beyond
« Reply #39 on: December 12, 2008, 11:19:15 AM »
Looks like the Gop will make it hard for Obama's Nominations. Mainly for Holder. The D's say they will not back down. I say BULL SHIT!!! They always back down. The D's are like a battered wife, always going back for me. GET A BACK BONE or I"LL STOP VOTING FOR THEM.  I'm just a little pissed.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/12/leahy-wont-give-in-to-gop_n_150553.html

Offline garyd

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Re: Presidential transition/Inauguration 2009 and beyond
« Reply #40 on: December 12, 2008, 12:05:45 PM »
Nice conservative people should not have to defend the CEOs who are taking their bonuses in bad times such as these, while they lay off their workers in the name of "survival."



Not sure I understand the term,"nice conservative" but I think I understand the basis of your post.
I am not defending professional athlete pay, by the way. I was simply explaining, as i understand it,
the basic contracts that are in current vogue.
I agree, they are entertainers.  They also have very short careers so salaries can seem lopsided when, in reality, they are not.
I think,as perhaps Rosewood said, they are teetering on obscene.
Being entertainers, however, a few can, and should, demand and receive compensation commensurate with their contribution and return on investment.
Tom Cruise acting abilities are not worth $20 million per movie, except, of course, they are as long as he delivers the box office.
Tom Hanks will not deliver a $50 million performance in the sequel to the "Da Vinci Code" except ,of course, he brings more than the performance.
I am a sports freak but seldom participate as an "audience" anymore for professional sports.
My business partner and I and my brother in law have some fun, follow, and attend collegiate sports and have formed a foundation,
aimed mainly and for the time being, at high school baseball players who are tempted to move into professional baseball instead of
attending college.  The foundation will scholarship the player if he attends at least two years of college.  Professional baseball is no place for a seventeen year old.

The same thing has happened to professional theatre.
Talk about "elite".
Who can afford $150, $200 or sometimes $300 or more to see a Broadway show?
Damn few.
And yet, and let me be VERY clear about this, it is not the actors who are driving the costs and it
is not the investors who are reaping outrageous greedy profits,it is the 
various antiquated and just plain stupid union rules and contracts that make
a simple revival of a Chekhov play, (in the public domain by the way) cost
millions of dollars to produce with little or no hope of even breaking even.

So you and I and others will never agree on this whole bail out thing.
I think the bail out is appropriate in some cases and not in others.
I don't believe that the Senate or Congress is out to "bust unions" , however.
One of the major screw ups that the management you guys so love to bash, is
that they ever agreed to such nonsense as "job banking" "lifetime private health care",
and pension plans that did not have even a toenail tied to reality.

Most CEO bonus's, and yes some are absurd, are reported in dollars but are
actually given in stock options.   Stock of the company for whom the CEO works.
Many, if not most, of the bonus' currently in discussion evaporated long ago.

Again, one can not apply one explanation/definition to all cirrcumstances.
The financial markets work in a completely different manner and the compensation
structure is different ( and easily abused and, yes, close to obscene) 
On the other hand, many of these guys generate, legitimately, millions of dollars
for their clients and themselves.   The majority of which, by the way, is taxed, state, local, and federal combined
at well over 50%. 
That leaves them with quite a bit of money, of course, and I know that many will not be satisfied until all that
"excess" money is once again taxed at above 90%. 
State and local,and even federal, tax revenues are going to sorely miss these guys. 









Offline Ellen (tellyouwhat)

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Re: Presidential transition/Inauguration 2009 and beyond
« Reply #41 on: December 12, 2008, 03:15:46 PM »
well, just so you know, it's not my intention to push your buttons.

eta:  I love your posts, I agree with so much, but I do see things in a different light.

I don't think 90% tax rate is where we need to head. 

I don't believe a few regulations and taxes are a slippery slope into socialism, and I really do think that bi-polar way of thinking about our financial systems is now an antiquated paradigm.

A healthy economy is one in which most people can participate, the best economy is one in which most can make a living wage.

In the name of the free market, a few wheeler dealers turned our economy into a Corvette without brakes, and it's not surprising we ended up in a crash.

sometimes I think life is just a rodeo the trick is to ride and make it 'til the bell --john fogerty

Offline garyd

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Re: Presidential transition/Inauguration 2009 and beyond
« Reply #42 on: December 12, 2008, 03:52:04 PM »
well, just so you know, it's not my intention to push your buttons.

eta:  I love your posts, I agree with so much, but I do see things in a different light.

I don't think 90% tax rate is where we need to head. 

I don't believe a few regulations and taxes are a slippery slope into socialism, and I really do think that bi-polar way of thinking about our financial systems is now an antiquated paradigm.

A healthy economy is one in which most people can participate, the best economy is one in which most can make a living wage.

In the name of the free market, a few wheeler dealers turned our economy into a Corvette without brakes, and it's not surprising we ended up in a crash.



yup, yup, agree, agree. (esp. the "Corvette" part. They are such sh***y pieces of GM junk masquerading as sleek sports machines.....bring me the head of the slimy, overpaid, CEO who allowed THAT to happen) 
(and the "button pushing" is my problem not yours.  If I don't want them pushed I can always just choose to keep them out of your reach. :D}


eta: please try to not use the word"cr***h" in polite company.  ;D
"not surprising we ended tits up in the ditch" is so much more endearing.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2008, 04:12:18 PM by garyd »

Offline Sandy

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Re: Presidential transition/Inauguration 2009 and beyond
« Reply #43 on: December 12, 2008, 06:04:59 PM »

I wouldn't go quite that far, Gary.  ;)

Oh, I know, I know, you really wouldn't.  And I truly do know that deep down.
You can still push my buttons for some reason and I immediately
go into knee jerk mode.
We need to figure out a way to fix a lot of stuff.
I sincerely hope,and actually believe,
that some one like the President Elect can  and will
provide the leadership, leadership by example,
that provides a template for all of us to move beyond
the polarizing "quips" that erect barriers to progress.

"that"?, "which"?
Sandy where are you?

<Decloaking from lurking>

I would use 'which' in this instance in order to include similar cases, parallel cases and cases not yet in evidence; 'which' gives a broader reading of the things referred to in the relative clause than 'that' (the choice is not really a matter of restrictive vs. non-restrictive, although some style manuals would give us to believe that it is).

Offline garyd

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Re: Presidential transition/Inauguration 2009 and beyond
« Reply #44 on: December 12, 2008, 08:22:24 PM »

<Decloaking from lurking>

I would use 'which' in this instance in order to include similar cases, parallel cases and cases not yet in evidence; 'which' gives a broader reading of the things referred to in the relative clause than 'that' (the choice is not really a matter of restrictive vs. non-restrictive, although some style manuals would give us to believe that it is).

That, which is not always the case, is exactly what I wanted to hear.
Thanks for decloaking.
The combination of the pressure of that or which, who or whom, effect or affect, and that word which no one can spell and which I can not at the moment remember, on my poor grammatical self-esteem is, at times, overwhelming.  It is my fault of course, but I prefer to place the blame on others.  Specifically, I choose to target my junior and senior high school English teachers, all of whom were spectacular educators by the way, but were the last of the old maid breed.  By the time they got to me I fear they were simply too weary to apply the  oversight and discipline necessary to effect a permanent imprint on my,then, unwilling cranial tissue.
"Then" being an indeterminate time similar to the era of the DE, I suppose. >:D
They never missed an opportunity,however, to confront me face to face when I committed a grammatical sin.
That is something for which I am forever in their debt.