The Ultimate Brokeback Forum

Author Topic: The new male: changes in attitudes and behavior  (Read 12432 times)

tonydude

  • Guest
The new male: changes in attitudes and behavior
« on: April 02, 2011, 03:55:22 PM »
  It was a few months ago, after I had posted a YouTube video, where soldiers were spoofing the emergence of a gay-friendly army, that I began to see a wave of videos on my YouTube page.  Mostly soldiers dancing, and sometimes playing gay.  And it suddenly occurred to me that there's more there.  Some kind of historical trend in the young males around the world, to be more needy of primitive tribal emotions for each other, indifference to being tagged as gay, and much more freedom emerging as to what kind of goofing off is acceptable among straight males.
  IMO, it's important.  This trend is some part of the REAL liberation I had been hoping for.  You really can't have true liberation for women, for example, unless men are set free, as well.  Anyway, this kind of freedom has enemies.  The old fogies who are prejudiced against anything but the Old Order of things. There would even be opposition from Old Order women and gays and gay-friendly, since this all defies previous pigeon-holing.
  But a new male emerging has so many implications in so many directions.  Men who are more free to express themselves are less likely to be abusive to women.  In the miltary, less likely, IMO, to kill civilians with no conscience. And more likely to be open-minded and progressive in their political views.
  So, am starting this thread, with some of the YouTube dancing, where I first saw it showing up.  I hope anyone who has anything to say, joins in. I do understand, males dancing, can be homo-erotic, but am going to usually post those that aren't necessarily so.
  Meanwhile, I still remained puzzled.  Some of these soldiers seem to deliberately spoof gay dance moves.  And often the video person is female.  I think, then, there's something going on past slash, where women like to see gay guy romances, to new heterosexal freedom, where men and women are getting hot and steamed up for each ther, over just male sexual exuberance.
 I hope others post vidoeos, and also discuss the issues.

Offline fritzkep

  • German Louisiana Virginia Dude
  • Global Moderator
  • Obsessed
  • ******
  • Posts: 112928
  • Wie geht's, y'all?
Re: The new male: changes in attitudes and behavior
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2011, 04:03:34 PM »
Not exactly the same thing, but many years ago (early 80's), Earl and I went to an open house at a Navy communications facility in Sugar Grove WV (in the radio quiet zone because of the radio telescopes at Green Bank, the reason for it being located there) to take a tour. We had to wait for a while, and in a waiting area, there was a TV showing the movie Victor/Victoria, and I was amazed even then how interested the Navy guys (all men there then) were in the movie, not mocking at all. We were on our best behavior there because of the possibility then of some minor incident if we were seen holding hands or anything like that, but I was secretly quite pleased that the Navy men were treating the characters in the movie with respect. Earl and I have talked about it several times over the years.

Werd ich zum Augenblicke sagen, "Verweile doch! Du bist so schön..."

tonydude

  • Guest
Re: The new male: changes in attitudes and behavior
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2011, 04:06:10 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFxBBr0S8o0

  Again, am not posting the best,  but, instead, those that might have some talking points.  In the one above, there is only about 5% that has any gay moves.  It's tribal. And ghetto.  But it is intersting that it ends with a guy getting to the screen and saying, joking or not: "Those guys are fags".  Well, he was outnumbered, if he was serious.

tonydude

  • Guest
Re: The new male: changes in attitudes and behavior
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2011, 04:11:10 PM »
...... but I was secretly quite pleased that the Navy men were treating the characters in the movie with respect. Earl and I have talked about it several times over the years.
  I think you were seeing the beginning, right there, Fritz, of this New Male.  In your case, tolerance for a gay movie.  It has moved on, I think, to tolerance for developing their own selves, while remaining heterosexual.
 Am off to pick out a few more, and then will give it a rest for awhile.  But I am very interested in the implications, so, will keep going over the next few days....

tonydude

  • Guest
Re: The new male: changes in attitudes and behavior
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2011, 04:17:53 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKr1ge19dwc

 This one is a marine version of the origins of dancing.  At first the guy looks gay.  I don't think so.  His bunk mates don't either.

 To show some of the homo-erotic that is now acceptable to the new males, I'll try to do better.....these were just starters, and fairly boring except for relating to the subject of this thread.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2011, 09:27:01 PM by Tony5 »

tonydude

  • Guest
Re: The new male: changes in attitudes and behavior
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2011, 04:38:39 PM »
  Thanks, Fritz! To mark the move to the "gay" section, am posting this one, where the guys are playing gay.  The point being, they are NOT gay, and are enjoying themselves.  I also have noted female comments to these videos from women who are turned on.
 Even so, in time I will try to develop the theme of general male liberation, which certainly affects so many more than just gay liberation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKvy9UhQRXQ

Offline ChangeINeed

  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 750
  • Waiting To Be Found...
Re: The new male: changes in attitudes and behavior
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2011, 04:58:27 PM »
Indeed things are changing and men begin to be less stiff about labels regarding their sexuality.My male friends dance with each other, they make dirty jokes about each other and one night in a bar, after too many shots, we dared two of them into kissing.They did it with a "now what" expression on their faces,we concluded that they weren't persuasive enough and we all resumed partying. ;) No big deal.


PS the videos were very funny and there are a lot of them on youtube
« Last Edit: April 02, 2011, 05:09:20 PM by ChangeINeed »
I have fucked a lot of people. Literally & metaphorically. I don't regret the literally.

Live, work, fight. Never give up.

Only rock never disappointed me.

For J & E who felt like that:

"I will never find a sea to live, with a soul of fish inside a cat’s body"

tonydude

  • Guest
Re: The new male: changes in attitudes and behavior
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2011, 05:04:55 PM »
  Once again, am posting videos that aren't exactly "hot".  In this one, there is that strange liberation, frivolity, that comes from the Roumanian song "Numa, Numa", which has been done, it would seem, by every freaking military unit there is.  What IS it about that song  ::) ?
  In this one, what is relevant to the theme is the tribal needs of men to dance together.  And dance may well have started to bond the men together for the hunt. That still occurs in primitive cultures to this day.  But also of interest, here, is some very quick gay kidding (you gotta look for it), which means, in it's own way, toleration, which means....liberation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puVmKfCwb4M

 For those who might see these videos as only just dancing, I'd ask them to think a little further.  Meanwhile (sigh), I guess I'll HAVE to post SOME semi-naked guys, goosing and up-rumping, if only to keep everybody from falling asleep.

ETA: just saw the post from ChangeINeed....and I think it shows.....there IS something going on.  As a history buff, I hope it can be documented, and discussed.

Offline fritzkep

  • German Louisiana Virginia Dude
  • Global Moderator
  • Obsessed
  • ******
  • Posts: 112928
  • Wie geht's, y'all?
Re: The new male: changes in attitudes and behavior
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2011, 05:07:09 PM »
Don't strain yourself, Tony. But don't hold back either!  ;)  :D

We're listening to Prairie Home Companion now, so I'll have to wait till it's over before enjoying the vids.

Werd ich zum Augenblicke sagen, "Verweile doch! Du bist so schön..."

tonydude

  • Guest
Re: The new male: changes in attitudes and behavior
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2011, 05:20:39 PM »
 No probs, Fritz  :D !!!!  Actually, am trying not to do a "Cowboys Up" version, in guys dancing.  So, some of the videos are bor-ing, and I only want to point out the changes. But I did want to get the thread started, and am now ticked off because the YouTube suggested vids, that were relevant....aren't there when I go back.

  Anyway, THIS one was on the DADT thread, and is a spoof of a gay military.  But here, the question is, why are the guys feeling so FREE to goof off? And,  ::)...am still wondering how they can up-rump better than gay guys in a gay bar?  Oh, the shame  :P  !!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ya9iFYmdYp4

Will post more, from time to time.  But I also hope for discussion, if anyone has any thoughts.  ARE we seeing a New Male Order?  Of what is allowed?  And where does it lead to?

Offline ChangeINeed

  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 750
  • Waiting To Be Found...
Re: The new male: changes in attitudes and behavior
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2011, 05:26:47 PM »
And one from me:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of_rSbW-5rw&feature=related


Check the guy with the rope and the one with the canon!!  ;)
I have fucked a lot of people. Literally & metaphorically. I don't regret the literally.

Live, work, fight. Never give up.

Only rock never disappointed me.

For J & E who felt like that:

"I will never find a sea to live, with a soul of fish inside a cat’s body"

tonydude

  • Guest
Re: The new male: changes in attitudes and behavior
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2011, 06:09:01 PM »
  ChangeINeed.... very good!  I'll see you one and call you (poker terms)!
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiYR9B6sP44e
 
I found this one that EXACTLY shows the reemergence of the relationship between male tribal dancing and hunting/warfare.  Curiously, there are quick snatches of gay tomfoolery.  Guys up-rumping, suggestively, two marines in dress uniform dancing, and, unless I'm mistaken, some graphics, twice, of a soldier being penetrated sexualy from the rear, by 2 buddies.  And yet that is less than 2% of the video.  Why is it in there?

  Meanwhile, about your friends kissing.  About 10 years ago, the American troops in Bosnia had to be trained to accept the local custom of males kissing, even mouth-to-mouth, from sudden affection.  I saw a film clip of a soldier stupefied by a teen-aged boy exuberantly kissing a buddy who had made a soccer score.  Now, we have Charlie Sheen mouth-kissing Jimmy Fallon (or Kimmel, one of the two) on a recent appearance.  And that's getting to be ok.  Barbara Walters started it, with the women, during an episode of The View.
  My point being that maybe the New Male, that can kiss a guy, and dance with a guy, retains or even strengthens his heterosexuality.  It's a thought.

 Well, being a guy, am off to see the robot war movie, Transformers, which I haven't seen before.  Back, later, if it's dumb.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2011, 09:31:38 PM by Tony5 »

Offline ChangeINeed

  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 750
  • Waiting To Be Found...
Re: The new male: changes in attitudes and behavior
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2011, 06:37:55 PM »
I haven't heard about Bosnians and kissing but i know that for men from some countries of the East (Indians, Pakistanis, I'm not sure) it's normal to show friendship and companionship by holding hands for example.When the first immigrants from these countries arrived, this habit seemed rather odd to many of us.

We can think the whole thing from the female perspective: we women are generally comfortable showing affection to each other. We hug, we kiss, we dance together, we find it normal to sleep in the same bed with our best friend during a sleepover, without any of this characterizing our sexual orientation or questioning our femininity. The same would be very liberating for men straight or gay.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2011, 06:47:16 PM by ChangeINeed »
I have fucked a lot of people. Literally & metaphorically. I don't regret the literally.

Live, work, fight. Never give up.

Only rock never disappointed me.

For J & E who felt like that:

"I will never find a sea to live, with a soul of fish inside a cat’s body"

Offline fritzkep

  • German Louisiana Virginia Dude
  • Global Moderator
  • Obsessed
  • ******
  • Posts: 112928
  • Wie geht's, y'all?
Re: The new male: changes in attitudes and behavior
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2011, 07:05:08 PM »
Always good to see men dancing with one another. It was once considered scandalous for a man to dance with a woman, consider the scene in Fiddler on the Roof in which the men had to be forced to dance with women, and the rabbi would only dance with his wife by each of them holding the ends of a handkerchief so that they wouldn't touch each other in public.

There was once a strong tradition of male military dancing among Hungarians during the time of the Empire, all the way from recruiting dances, in which the soldiers would entice young men to join them by athletically dancing before them, and various ceremonies would be accompanied by dancing. It doesn't mean that individuals were any less homophobic because of these dances, any more than males touching and holding hands with other men in countries of West Asia and North Africa would be any less homophobic, but gay men could more easily blend in because of these social norms.

I do hope that scenes like this represent a return to this form of male bonding, though without the stain of homophobia. Straight men who are secure in their own sexuality are not, on their own, homophobes unless conditioned by their upbringing, and then it may well be only a casual form of it.

Werd ich zum Augenblicke sagen, "Verweile doch! Du bist so schön..."

Offline fritzkep

  • German Louisiana Virginia Dude
  • Global Moderator
  • Obsessed
  • ******
  • Posts: 112928
  • Wie geht's, y'all?
Re: The new male: changes in attitudes and behavior
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2011, 07:10:20 PM »
I haven't heard about Bosnians and kissing but i know that for men from some countries of the East (Indians, Pakistanis, I'm not sure) it's normal to show friendship and companionship by holding hands for example.When the first immigrants from these countries arrived, this habit seemed rather odd to many of us.

We can think the whole thing from the female perspective: we women are generally comfortable showing affection to each other. We hug, we kiss, we dance together, we find it normal to sleep in the same bed with our best friend during a sleepover, without any of this characterizing our sexual orientation or questioning our femininity. The same would be very liberating for men straight or gay.

Indeed, I have slept in the same bed with a straight friend who knew I was gay. It showed that he was comfortable with himself and that he trusted me. (Not that he couldn't have knocked me silly if I tried anything he objected to!  :D )

Werd ich zum Augenblicke sagen, "Verweile doch! Du bist so schön..."