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Author Topic: The new male: changes in attitudes and behavior  (Read 12640 times)

tonydude

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Re: The new male: changes in attitudes and behavior
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2011, 07:45:36 PM »
  Well, I had hoped for exploration of the subject, which is, admittedly, somewhat broad (The New Male), and am very grateful there has been some already!  Many thanks to C-I-N and Fritz!  Meanwhile, there's no harm in some sexing it up.  Unfortunately, the following attempt, to that end, is somewhat dubious.  The soldier playing gay could stand to buff up some.
  But, for what it's worth, he ain't THAT bad, and his buddies thought it great fun. Meanwhile, am always curious as to why guys pick between their rump or their crotch as being the most interesting to other guys.  What lurks there in their personal world-view  :D....

NSFW due to bare-butt wiggling

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q775dmiBGy0

tonydude

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Re: The new male: changes in attitudes and behavior
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2011, 07:49:42 PM »
I do hope that scenes like this represent a return to this form of male bonding, though without the stain of homophobia. Straight men who are secure in their own sexuality are not, on their own, homophobes unless conditioned by their upbringing, and then it may well be only a casual form of it.
  Exactly !!!!  I hope the same ! And I also hope women enjoy a more sensual sexuality from their mates, due to a more secure sense of self.  Male liberation, IMO, is the next great movement, and long over-due.

tonydude

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Re: The new male: changes in attitudes and behavior
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2011, 08:08:29 PM »
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIDZc_sKy84

This one is just to show how males can greatly enjoy dancing with each other.  I noticed on the tv show Outsourced, that the men in India dance together on the dance floors, while their dates stay seated.
  Also, I just am never going to understand WHAT it is with that song "Numa, Numa" that so liberates military men (as in the above link).

tonydude

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Re: The new male: changes in attitudes and behavior
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2011, 08:16:01 PM »
  Finally (for now), more male sexuality.  In this case, a soldier doing a tape for his wife to a ludicrous hillbilly song.  He's more vulgar than sexy. Am throwing this stuff in for those who want a less, mmmm.....intellectual approach.

NSFW not due to nudity, but because the guy is lewd, and his personals waggle prominently.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-p-n1AOXsKc

BTW, I would hope there might be some articles or news stories that could be here, from those who read a lot.  Fat chance, but, it could happen.... :P...

Offline lislis

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Re: The new male: changes in attitudes and behavior
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2011, 01:32:50 AM »
http://forum.dvdtalk.com/archive/t-432698.html

(1953) Stalag 17 -  comments from a 2005 movie review

Offline Sason

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Re: The new male: changes in attitudes and behavior
« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2011, 08:10:37 AM »
No probs, Fritz  :D !!!!  Actually, am trying not to do a "Cowboys Up" version, in guys dancing.  So, some of the videos are bor-ing, and I only want to point out the changes. But I did want to get the thread started, and am now ticked off because the YouTube suggested vids, that were relevant....aren't there when I go back.

  Anyway, THIS one was on the DADT thread, and is a spoof of a gay military.  But here, the question is, why are the guys feeling so FREE to goof off? And,  ::)...am still wondering how they can up-rump better than gay guys in a gay bar?  Oh, the shame  :P  !!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ya9iFYmdYp4

Will post more, from time to time.  But I also hope for discussion, if anyone has any thoughts.  ARE we seeing a New Male Order?  Of what is allowed?  And where does it lead to?

This one is blocked in my country.

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Offline Sason

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Re: The new male: changes in attitudes and behavior
« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2011, 08:27:24 AM »
Interesting subject.

I wonder if it's a new approach emerging among American soldiers exclusively?

Or if it can be seen also in other countries and/or contexts with traditionally restricted male norms?


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tonydude

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Re: The new male: changes in attitudes and behavior
« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2011, 12:12:20 PM »
  Hi, Sonja !  No, this is, apparently, going on in the Western countries.  I've seen videos from Scandinavian, Russian, Hungarian, British, and Mexican soldiers, but tracking them on YouTube is time-consuming and difficult.
   As far as the military aspect, well that is just an easy focus, since they are, under pressure, leading the way. When I can, I'll try to find those overseas vids.  Meanwhile, I haven't gotten to Lislis' link, yet, but am hoping for more written links, or even eccentricities that might be part of the dots to be connected.
  Liberation movements and historical trends, are hard to document and track.  But making an effort, can't hurt.  Or disagreements, should they arise, either.

Offline Lyle (Mooska)

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Re: The new male: changes in attitudes and behavior
« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2011, 12:14:19 PM »
My point being that maybe the New Male, that can kiss a guy, and dance with a guy, retains
or even strengthens his heterosexuality.  It's a thought.

Over the years I've frequently watched a lot of things about the 30's and 40's and
also seen a lot of photographs from the era and it struck me several times that men
were not as self-conscious about their feelings toward other men back then.  You often
found the guys with their arms around one another and more caring it seems, about
their male friends.   You can see zillions of photos of male friends with their arms around
one another and during WWII it seems every man had a photo like that taken with a buddy
of his.  In contemporary literature and magazines of the times there are numerous and quite
unsensationalized reports that in the major cities where troops were stationed or visiting
where there were dire housing shortages that soldiers of two or more frequently shared
beds together.  There's a famous photo in life magazine of two soldiers sleeping in a
69 position on a park bench in Washington, D.C. and commenters in the letter section
found it quite "cute."

I'm suggesting that over the years because more gay people came out and society was
clamping down on this coming out, either forcefully or subtly, that a pendulum swung where
men became more afraid or wary to express these things lest they be mis-interpreted and that's
when most of us were growing up, so maybe now that being gay is beginning to be seen in more
non-threatening ways that the pendulum of men's natural feelings of humanity and comaraderie
toward one another is swinging back in the other direction.

A somewhat fleeting example of this came to mind just now.  Randolph Scott and Cary Grant found
no trouble or problem sharing a house together in the 1930's and were photographed doing so many
times.  In fact, there were many gay performers and clubs in Los Angeles until things changed and
Scott & Grant had to move to separate quarters and the clubs closed and you could subsequently be
arrested for even even performing in drag.  I mean, what's more threatening than a man in a dress?

Well, being a guy, am off to see the robot war movie, Transformers, which I haven't seen
before.  Back, later, if it's dumb.

I thought you'd be back in 5 minutes.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2011, 12:49:27 PM by Lyle (Mooska) »

tonydude

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Re: The new male: changes in attitudes and behavior
« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2011, 12:22:26 PM »
http://forum.dvdtalk.com/archive/t-432698.html

(1953) Stalag 17 -  comments from a 2005 movie review

   Thanks, Lislis - I especially was impressed by the comment there:  when you live with death at the doorstep, it puts things into perspective.  Like dancing with another guy.  As in, so what?  Very good link.


tonydude

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Re: The new male: changes in attitudes and behavior
« Reply #25 on: April 03, 2011, 12:33:39 PM »
   I'm suggesting that over the years because more gay people came out and society was
clamping down on this coming out, either forcefully or subtly, that a pendulum swung where
men became more afraid or wary to express these things lest they be mis-interpreted and that's
when most of us were growing up, so maybe now that being gay is beginning to be seen in more
non-threatening ways that the pendulum of men's natural feelings of humanity and comaraderie
toward one another is swinging back in the other direction.


I thought you'd be back in 5 minutes.

 Lyle this is what I have thought, too.  But am wondering if there aren't counter-balances?  Meaning gay freedom suppresses straight male freedom, from one direction, then affects it from yet the opposite.
  I have noticed the phrase: "That's so Gay", among young people, and especially by women, as if they are threatened by any change.  And, yet the guys shrug it off, which means...they won't be behavior-bullied so easily any more.  Am seeing this often, even on tv.
   No flattery intended, but your post hit to a fairly rare or infrequent insight. Will be a little leery of quick-reading your posts, all the more.

 Five minutes?  No, as a guy, I am subject to the goofy guy syndrome, same as others.  I haven't managed to evolve  :D.
 

tonydude

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Re: The new male: changes in attitudes and behavior
« Reply #26 on: April 03, 2011, 12:45:38 PM »
This one is blocked in my country.
 Am sorry I don't know how to embed a video.  That's done on other forums, probably for Europeans, where there's the whole square and a start arrow, and maybe that gets around any access problems.
  Maybe somebody will embed the one you couldn't see.  But am just not, myself, sure how that is done.  I hope you did see the others.

tonydude

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Re: The new male: changes in attitudes and behavior
« Reply #27 on: April 03, 2011, 01:18:07 PM »
^^^^Thanks, KD  :).....that's also useful for us here in the States.

  Meanwhile, there do seem to be resources on this subject on the web.  Wikipedia has an entry for male liberation.  I checked one site, maleliberationfront.blogspot.com, and it seemed interesting, but I was especially puzzled by a poem, apparently written by some male resenting enslavement to female "pussies".  I need to go back to it, but he seemed really pissed off at the consequences of being a heterosexual, when, for him, his humanity comes first.
  Acckkk!  While am trying to keep up with all of the forum, today, am myself trapped by females who either are on the phone or are threatening a visit.  Am I being sexist, or is it harder for women to understand other people don't exist to jump when they beckon?  Probably just grumpy.
  Anyway, the writing is out there, but it is more varied than I had thought.

ETA: The post explaining how to see videos that are blocked was deleted by the poster, and that may have been because I took the liberty of abbreviating their username.  If that was the reason, my apologies. I'll try to avoid that in the future.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2011, 03:23:51 PM by Tony5 »

Offline Lyle (Mooska)

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Re: The new male: changes in attitudes and behavior
« Reply #28 on: April 03, 2011, 01:49:40 PM »
I don't know if any of the following is what was in mind when starting the thread,
but it's what I was thinking about in response.

http://forum.dvdtalk.com/archive/t-432698.html
(1953) Stalag 17 -  comments from a 2005 movie review

I wonder if the play was any different in regards to this brief scene in the film.

I ask, because I read the novel of From Here to Eternity which was made a couple years
after Stalag 17 and it appears that it was common for many of the enlisted soldiers to have
dates with gay men on the island.  They would meet at Wo Fat's, on Hotel Street, usually.
The reason they'd do this?  The soldiers were always short on cash and the gay men would
pay for their meals.  It seems many of them would also dance together there.  Most of the gay
men would have a routine.  They'd leave their wallets with the cashier (or someone else) at the
restaurant while they were dining.  After the meals and everyone left, the gay men would return
to the restaurant later on and pay the bills.  Before I reply, think about why they would do this.

The answer is that many of the soldiers would think the gay men easy marks and would
mug them and steal their money when they were out of the restaurants.  So, with the
cooperation of the restaurant, they formed this routine to keep them from getting mugged
and robbed. 

I assume the gay men enjoyed the company of these guys and were willing to pay for
the dates they went on.  Also, if you were gay and in the military and knew about these
situations, I'd assume that some gay men, military and civilians, would readily agree to these
kinds of situations, pretending to be straight-having dinner with gay men who payed--but you're
actually gay yourself etc.  Sort of Victor/Victoria-ish!

Another book I read about a sailor's experiences in WWII Hawaii mentioned that it was
well-known that at night, the statue of King Kamehameha was where gay men would
go to meet and greet!   (And also military guys looking for trouble.)  Also, there was a
bar in the Royal Hawaiian Hotel noted for pick-ups of enlisted men.  (The statue thing
was mentioned in this guys book rather incidentally, as an item of information.  When I
closed the book that night after reading some chapters, I chuckled to see that the
photo on the cover jacket was a period photograph of sailors standing around the
King Kamehameha statue!  LOL!  Subtext or innocence?  I read another book about
WWII that was more of a photographic look at things to do with the era and there were
so many things in it that set off my gaydar that I think the author must have been so
inclined, to put it in oldish terms!

There IS a gay man who published two books of WWII era photographs, most all of them
from Government archives and that were photographed by official government photographers.
He became interested in these kinds of photographs because of his father who had served
in WWII.  The photos are basically of routine life of the military men together.  The photos
are essentially quite innocent, but viewed by gay men, can be loving, affectionate or even
sexual in nature.

These books were:
 

The books were heavily marketed to gay bookstores and gay men.  When they first were
released, there were a lot of comments from WWII era men who had been involved in the
military that were uncomplimentary.  They suspected subversive homosexual motives in the
very idea that soldiers might be sexualized or looked at sexually by other men in some way.
I laughed at many of the comments, thinking those same soldiers had scantily clad photos of
Rita Hayworth or Betty Grable tacked up on their tentflaps, but that's different, isn't it?


Offline Sason

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Re: The new male: changes in attitudes and behavior
« Reply #29 on: April 03, 2011, 01:50:57 PM »
 Am sorry I don't know how to embed a video.  That's done on other forums, probably for Europeans, where there's the whole square and a start arrow, and maybe that gets around any access problems.
  Maybe somebody will embed the one you couldn't see.  But am just not, myself, sure how that is done.  I hope you did see the others.

Nevermind, it doens't matter.

Oh yes, I did see the others.

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