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Author Topic: Don't Ask, Don't Tell: Gays & the military--ARCHIVED  (Read 101871 times)

Offline trauma@62

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Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell: Gays, friends, and the military
« Reply #30 on: June 01, 2006, 01:45:01 AM »
Ok I wasn't born then but I'll try to answer the military question about Ennis & Jack. In the motel scene Jack says the Army rejected him because he was too busted up. As for Ennis he was married with small children and I think men like that didn't get drafted? I'm not sure.

Jason

Thanks, Jason

Are you referring to what was said in the motel scene in the film?  Don't know how I missed that -- but I've seen the film only once and just about time of motel scene, I was completely overwhelmed by both dialogue and the visual, so I guess I could well have missed it.

Or are you referring to the motel scene in the story?  I have never read the story but I am aware there are differences.

To reiterate, my issue is mainly a literary one --- to fail to account for the impact of the draft on U S males in their 20s at that time, the story author and/or screenplay writers would display a lack of verisimilitude, IMO.

Thanks to you and posts by kaboyz and willhoite, I now surmise that my literary concerns are sufficiently satisfied.

Offline trauma@62

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Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell: Gays, friends, and the military
« Reply #31 on: June 01, 2006, 02:01:14 AM »
Are you referring to what was said in the motel scene in the film?  Don't know how I missed that -- but I've seen the film only once and just about time of motel scene, I was completely overwhelmed by both dialogue and the visual, so I guess I could well have missed it.

Or are you referring to the motel scene in the story?  I have never read the story but I am aware there are differences.

To reiterate, my issue is mainly a literary one --- to fail to account for the impact of the draft on U S males in their 20s at that time, the story author and/or screenplay writers would display a lack of verisimilitude, IMO.

Thanks to you and posts by kaboyz and willhoite, I now surmise that my literary concerns are sufficiently satisfied.
Quote


Sorry, it was fritzkep], not kaboyz whose post addressed mine and gave me enough backround and example to allay the concerns I raised.

And, thank you, jim ... moderator for your kind words of welcome.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2006, 12:24:56 PM by estefue »

Offline Dave Cullen

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Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell: Gays, friends, and the military
« Reply #32 on: June 20, 2006, 12:05:20 PM »
the latest pew research poll showed that americans now support gays in the military overwhelmingly, i think 2 to 1, and growing year after year. nearly every demographic group (except evangelical christians) now supports it, even a majority in the south.

and yet . . .

i guess the courage of our reps in congress will lag a decade or two.

Offline kaboyz

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Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell: Gays, friends, and the military
« Reply #33 on: June 20, 2006, 08:35:01 PM »
Pentagon memo: Homosexuality a disorder

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/13431328/

Some excerpts:

A Pentagon document classifies homosexuality as a mental disorder, decades after mental health experts abandoned that position. 

The Pentagon has a “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy that prohibits the military from inquiring about the sex lives of service members but requires discharges of those who openly acknowledge being gay. 

There were 726 military members discharged under the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy during the budget year that ended last Sept. 30. That marked the first year since 2001 that the total had increased. The number of discharges had declined each year since it peaked at 1,227 in 2001, and had fallen to 653 in 2004.
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Offline graylockV

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Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell: Gays, friends, and the military
« Reply #34 on: June 21, 2006, 04:44:05 PM »
History shows that gay discharges drop when there's a war going on.  In some cases, you can tell, tell, and tell like hell, and they won't hear you, at least not until you return to stateside.  Part of the hypocrisy of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell."

Apparently, heterosexuals aren't such delicate flowers about sleeping and showering with gay people in an actual war zone, when there is a real possibility of explosions and being shot to death.

I do not speak from personal experience, just as someone who has tried to follow the issue over the years.  The late Randy Shilts did the watershed work on this in his book "Conduct Unbecoming." 

My father was a WWII veteran.  He said that in many cases they knew who the homosexual guys were and didn't care - as long as everyone did their job and respected one another - because "we figured those guys could take a bullet as well as anyone else."  Meaning that death or injury tend to be "equal opportunity" experiences, so why, when millions were being drafted, should anyone be exempt when they can do the job and otherwise mind their own business.   

Of course, in those days, if you got caught "en flagrante" you were in big trouble - prison, etc. 
Beulah, peel me a grape.

Offline Carissa

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Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell: Gays, friends, and the military
« Reply #35 on: June 28, 2006, 08:17:29 PM »
Pentagon says homosexuality not a mental disorder
By Will Dunham Wed Jun 28, 3:30 PM ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Pentagon no longer deems homosexuality a mental disorder, officials said on Wednesday, although the reversal has no impact on U.S. policy prohibiting openly gay people from serving in the military.

After a 1996 Pentagon document placing homosexuality among a list of "certain mental disorders" came to light this month, the American Psychiatric Association and a handful of lawmakers asked the Defense Department to change its view.

The Pentagon said in a statement: "Homosexuality should not have been characterized as a mental disorder in an appendix of a procedural instruction. A clarification will be issued over the next few days."

"Notwithstanding its inclusion, we find no practical impact since that appendix simply listed factors that do not constitute a physical disability, and homosexuality of course does not," the Pentagon added.

m o r e . . .
« Last Edit: June 29, 2006, 03:06:55 PM by Carissa »
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Offline BayCityJohn

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Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell: Gays, friends, and the military
« Reply #36 on: July 20, 2006, 09:50:04 PM »
Any other military brats out there?
« Last Edit: July 20, 2006, 10:07:21 PM by BayCityJohn »
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Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell: Gays, friends, and the military
« Reply #37 on: July 21, 2006, 03:17:59 PM »
I wanna serve my country. I am going to give it a go.  :)

Offline Vicky0uk

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Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell: Gays, friends, and the military
« Reply #38 on: July 21, 2006, 05:07:16 PM »
It's ridiculous......in the UK we now have gays and lesbians in all the branches of the armed forces and have had our first same-sex military weddings.

At Europride for the first time, the Royal Navy marched in full uniform (though unfortunately the Army and RAF were not allowed to wear their official uniforms - a bit weird really).

Anyhow, as far as I know the Services have not collapsed into a trough of debauchery and mutiny as a result [though maybe chance would be a fine thing!]

Offline Carissa

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Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell: Gays, friends, and the military
« Reply #39 on: July 27, 2006, 10:43:30 AM »
Army dismisses gay Arabic linguist
By DUNCAN MANSFIELD, Associated Press Writer
Thu Jul 27, 7:17 AM ET
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060727/ap_on_re_us/gays_military;_ylt=AnlbjSiRkLD8EiqQR0GYx2VH2ocA;_ylu=X3oDMTA3MjBwMWtkBHNlYwM3MTg-
 
JOHNSON CITY, Tenn. - A decorated sergeant and Arabic language specialist was dismissed from the U.S. Army under the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy, though he says he never told his superiors he was gay and his accuser was never identified.

Bleu Copas, 30, told The Associated Press he is gay, but said he was "outed" by a stream of anonymous e-mails to his superiors in the 82nd Airborne Division at Fort Bragg, N.C.
Give me my Romeo; and, when he shall die,
Take him and cut him out in little stars,
And he will make the face of heaven so fine
That all the world will be in love with night
And pay no worship to the garish sun.
- Romeo and Juliet (Juliet at III, ii)

Offline graylockV

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Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell: Gays, friends, and the military
« Reply #40 on: July 27, 2006, 02:39:44 PM »
Army dismisses gay Arabic linguist
By DUNCAN MANSFIELD, Associated Press Writer
Thu Jul 27, 7:17 AM ET
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060727/ap_on_re_us/gays_military;_ylt=AnlbjSiRkLD8EiqQR0GYx2VH2ocA;_ylu=X3oDMTA3MjBwMWtkBHNlYwM3MTg-
 
JOHNSON CITY, Tenn. - A decorated sergeant and Arabic language specialist was dismissed from the U.S. Army under the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy, though he says he never told his superiors he was gay and his accuser was never identified.

Bleu Copas, 30, told The Associated Press he is gay, but said he was "outed" by a stream of anonymous e-mails to his superiors in the 82nd Airborne Division at Fort Bragg, N.C.


So important information may go untranslated, and lives of other soldiers endangered as a result. 

All because of a stupid policy built on fear and bigotry.  Who says homophobia doesn't kill!
Beulah, peel me a grape.

Offline Lola

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Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell: Gays, friends, and the military
« Reply #41 on: August 14, 2006, 08:35:56 AM »
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/08/14/military.gays.ap/index.html


'Don't ask, don't tell' takes highest toll at Missouri base

726 gay military members kicked out nationwide in 2005
 
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Offline estefue

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Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell: Gays, friends, and the military
« Reply #42 on: August 14, 2006, 09:53:20 AM »
As usual it's a question of ideology versus reality.  With the incresing need for troops, the decrease in recruitment (gee, I wonder why) and the growing unpopularity of this war of course we should be kicking hundreds of troops out because gay soldiers would be bad for morale >:(

Offline jack

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Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell: Gays, friends, and the military
« Reply #43 on: August 18, 2006, 07:09:52 PM »
at the request of the management...

Pete just put up a poll at http://davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=12326.0 so we can find out approximately how many books we need to have printed in the first run. thank you...
« Last Edit: August 25, 2006, 08:00:30 PM by jack »
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Offline chiaros

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Re: Don't Ask, Don't Tell: Gays, friends, and the military
« Reply #44 on: September 21, 2006, 07:43:36 PM »
An interview by Jason Jones, from "The Today Show" ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXEqcQSTMfU
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