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Author Topic: News and Current Events - 2017 - 2022  (Read 753036 times)

Offline Lyle (Mooska)

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Re: News and Current Events - 2017
« Reply #1380 on: November 29, 2017, 04:38:45 PM »
An article that was published in Psychology Today last April, before the harrassment deluge started:

Sexual Harassment Is in the Eye of the Beholder
Why Bad Looks Good
We do not always "know it when we see it"
by Wendy L. Patrick, Ph.D. / Mar 15, 2017 / Psychology Today

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/why-bad-looks-good/201703/sexual-harassment-is-in-the-eye-the-beholder

From the link:

What actually defines sexual harrasment? Is sexual harassment objective or subjective? What I mean by that is: Is sexual harassment defined by observable facts or by how the parties involved perceive it? If the latter is the case, then whose perception carries the greatest weight? The person who does it or the person who endures it? If the former is the case, then what observable behaviors constitute harassment?
__________


The problem with a lot of what is occurring now, in my mind, is the rush to erase the people who've been accused. The conversations about this issue are also not coming from the same place. Much of it is political defense and offense, when it shouldn't be. Some people are fired and politicians are elected. In some cases, decades of work is being dismissed over accusations that haven't been proven or even acknowledged in some cases. The allegations are also completely different and cover a wide range of actions from just verbal all the way up to rape.

Garrison Keillor, mentioned in an above post, said:

He has been fired by Minnesota Public Radio over allegations of what the network called improper behavior. Keillor told The Associated Press he was fired over “a story that I think is more interesting and more complicated than the version MPR heard.” Keillor didn’t detail the allegation to AP, but he told the Minneapolis Star Tribune he had put his hand on a woman’s bare back when trying to console her.

“I meant to pat her back after she told me about her unhappiness, and her shirt was open and my hand went up it about six inches. She recoiled. I apologized,” Keillor told the newspaper in an email. “I sent her an email of apology later, and she replied that she had forgiven me and not to think about it. We were friends. We continued to be friendly right up until her lawyer called.”

Minnesota Public Radio confirmed it had terminated contracts with Keillor after receiving a single allegation against him last month of “inappropriate behavior.” MPR said it knew of no other allegations but had retained an outside law firm that continues to investigate. Keillor didn’t say when the alleged incident occurred.

In his statement to AP, Keillor said it was “poetic irony to be knocked off the air by a story, having told so many of them myself. But I’m 75 and don’t have any interest in arguing about this. And I cannot in conscience bring danger to a great organization I’ve worked hard for since 1969.”

https://www.apnews.com/a471efc6700f406c9d8ac2e5037cfe9b

Offline morrobay

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Re: News and Current Events - 2017
« Reply #1381 on: November 29, 2017, 04:53:18 PM »

Rape is rape ...I understand that.....but....come on.....an arm around the waist walking to the cloakroom to get your coat at the end of the day never did any harm. Laugh it off!

But not everyone thinks like that - although obviously everyone who has posted so far does. 

What if someone doesn't want an arm around their waist?  Why should they feel like they just have to put up with it? 
Bye, Felicia

"What a maroon."  Bugs Bunny

"I try to be good...I only manage it in streaks."

Offline CellarDweller115

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Re: News and Current Events - 2017
« Reply #1382 on: November 29, 2017, 06:48:58 PM »
I can see  both sides of this discussion.

These type of charges seem to  happen at the drop of a hat, and come in large numbers, so can make one wonder what is actually happening, and wonder if anyone is being accused falsely.

That being said, I don't think any of the women bring this accusations forward are  doing so because they had an arm put around their waist.  Many of these women have been told their careers would not advance if they didn't "go along" with what was happening, or if they told anyone about it.

From what I've read, Matt  Lauer is accused of giving a female coworker a sex toy as a gift, and having another come into his office, and then dropping his pants and exposing himself to her.


Not long ago, pop-singer Kesha took her producer  Lukasz Sebastian Gottwald  (Dr. Luke) to court where she accused him of physical, emotional and sexual abuse, and stated she had been drugged and raped.

He counter-sued Kesha and her mother for defamation of character.   The cases are ongoing.   Kesha  was told by others in the industry that if she didn't shut up and go along with the behavior, her albums wouldn't get released.  A number of other singers came to her defense.

Most notably was  American Idol winner Kelly Clarkson, who had this to say about working with Dr. Luke:

"I chose to forgo hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions, by keeping my name off of "My Life Would Suck Without You.""

"I was told if I didn't work with him, my album wouldn't be released.  I was making a point to the people working with me, going, 'This is how much I don't want to do this,'" she said. "I don't care about the money. I don't care about, oh, 'You're going to be the most famous person ever if you do this.' That's not what holds weight in my life."

"There's a lot of times in my career where you don't see my name on the song and that's because sometimes I don't write them," she said. "A lot of times I do change the song in a way that probably you should ask for credit, but I don't because the song was already great – I just made it more me. I think a lot of artists steal credit a lot from writers, which I think is super crappy because that's their livelihood."

But, "if I deserve it, I usually ask," she continued. "And I did deserve it on ['My Life Would Suck Without You'] just because I changed it a bit." Clarkson also recalled how the topic was first broached, and how she vehemently refused to be associated with him.

"They brought up writing credit at the end," she went on. "They were like, 'Well, you changed the song.' And I was like, 'I don't want my name near his. I want to pretend this didn't happen in my life and I want to forget it.'"

Last year, Clarkson spoke out against Dr. Luke and in defense of Kesha, offering up her own take on the embattled music producer.

"A lot of artists that have worked with him don't work with him anymore for pretty good, solid reasons," she said during an interview with Australia's KIIS FM The Kyle & Jackie O Show. "He's not a good person to me. We've clashed. I can't really say anything other than that."

Offline Lyle (Mooska)

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Re: News and Current Events - 2017
« Reply #1383 on: November 30, 2017, 10:24:52 AM »
But not everyone thinks like that - although obviously everyone who has posted so far does. 
What if someone doesn't want an arm around their waist?  Why should they feel like they just have to put up with it?


An article that was published in Psychology Today last April:

Sexual Harassment Is in the Eye of the Beholder
Why Bad Looks Good
We do not always "know it when we see it"
by Wendy L. Patrick, Ph.D. / Mar 15, 2017 / Psychology Today

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/why-bad-looks-good/201703/sexual-harassment-is-in-the-eye-the-beholder


Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: News and Current Events - 2017
« Reply #1384 on: November 30, 2017, 11:40:18 AM »
I wasn't going to post this because, well, you know.

Last evening I watched the NBC program for the lighting of the Rockefeller Center Christmas tree.

Just before the mayor of New York City pulled the switch to light the tree, he put his arm around the shoulders of NBC's Hoda Kotb, and she did not ask him to do that.

But she also didn't tell him to stop, or take his arm away.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 02:31:39 PM by Jeff Wrangler »

Offline Lyle (Mooska)

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Re: News and Current Events - 2017
« Reply #1385 on: November 30, 2017, 01:15:45 PM »

Now we notice and or read into things that we didn't think about before. I was watching a bit
of a movie from the 50's about office politics that I came across on TV (The Best of Everything)
and man...if you remade that it would be a lot different. The atmosphere right now is uptight
about everything. Not just this.

Offline oilgun

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Re: News and Current Events - 2017
« Reply #1386 on: November 30, 2017, 05:18:04 PM »
RIP Jim Nabors. He was 87.
"Yer fond of me lobster aint' ye? I seen it - yer fond of me lobster! Say it! Say it. Say it!" - The Lighthouse.

Offline morrobay

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Re: News and Current Events - 2017
« Reply #1387 on: November 30, 2017, 05:22:18 PM »
I wasn't going to post this because, well, you know.

Last evening I watched the NBC program for the lighting of the Rockefeller Center Christmas tree.

Just before the mayor of New York City pulled the switch to light the tree, he put his arm around the shoulders of NBC's Hoda Kotb, and she did not ask him to do that.

But she also didn't tell him to stop, or take his arm away.

Maybe, like Sue, she didn't mind him putting his arm around her shoulders.  Everyone has their own comfort level, I think.
Bye, Felicia

"What a maroon."  Bugs Bunny

"I try to be good...I only manage it in streaks."

Offline CellarDweller115

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Re: News and Current Events - 2017
« Reply #1388 on: November 30, 2017, 05:25:53 PM »
Maybe, like Sue, she didn't mind him putting his arm around her shoulders.  Everyone has their own comfort level, I think.

Yes, everyone has their own comfort level.  It can lead to a lot of confusion!  LOL

I've had to adjust my sense of humor at work numerous times.  I know who as as similar sense of humor to mine, and that they are "safe" to work with  I've also learned who takes offense to things, and when I'm around those people, I watch what comes out of my mouth.

Offline CellarDweller115

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Re: News and Current Events - 2017
« Reply #1389 on: November 30, 2017, 05:28:11 PM »
Now we notice and or read into things that we didn't think about before. I was watching a bit of a movie from the 50's about office politics that I came across on TV (The Best of Everything) and man...if you remade that it would be a lot different. The atmosphere right now is uptight about everything. Not just this.


Slightly different topic, I remember an episode of "Mad Men" ( I think) where a woman who was pregnant was enjoying a cocktail and a cigarette.   Tons of viewers complained online, and the writers of the show had to issue a statement that their show was written realistically, and in that time period, pregnant women smoked and drank, and it wasn't thought to be a 'bad' thing.

Offline morrobay

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Re: News and Current Events - 2017
« Reply #1390 on: November 30, 2017, 05:59:15 PM »
I heard on NPR that since Congress has it's own "fund" set up, and has paid $15m to claimants of workplace misconduct, sexual or otherwise, that they are going to have sexual harassment training.

I find this both amusing and pathetic.  Here's your training: when you're at work, don't touch anyone, don't tell dirty jokes and/or curse, don't proposition anyone, and, unless you're in the men's room, keep your pants on.  End of training.  Apparently, this needs to be repeated numerous times until it sinks in.


Bye, Felicia

"What a maroon."  Bugs Bunny

"I try to be good...I only manage it in streaks."

Offline Lyle (Mooska)

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Re: News and Current Events - 2017
« Reply #1391 on: December 01, 2017, 09:00:31 AM »

Is that paid by the taxpayers?

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: News and Current Events - 2017
« Reply #1392 on: December 01, 2017, 09:01:48 AM »
 As I was "finalizing" getting ready for work this morning, some sort of round-table discussion of the harassment issue was taking place on the Today show. I really do regret that I didn't have time to watch all of it, but just as I had to turn off the TV and leave for work, a young woman whom I did not know was saying something about now in the aftermath men no longer know how to treat women in the workplace or even elsewhere. Just as I had to leave she said something about men being afraid to hug even long-time women friends.

If what she said about long-term friends is correct, I think that's kind of sad.

Assuming the woman friend is OK with being hugged, of course. (And I don't mean that as a smart-alec remark; I really mean it.)
« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 07:18:26 PM by Jeff Wrangler »

Offline morrobay

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Re: News and Current Events - 2017
« Reply #1393 on: December 01, 2017, 11:11:36 AM »
Is that paid by the taxpayers?

Hmmmmm...I need some time to think about that.  Yes.
Bye, Felicia

"What a maroon."  Bugs Bunny

"I try to be good...I only manage it in streaks."

Offline morrobay

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Re: News and Current Events - 2017
« Reply #1394 on: December 01, 2017, 11:26:17 AM »
As I was "finalizing" getting ready for work this morning, some sort of round-table discussion of the harassment issue was taking place on the Today show. I really do regret that I didn't have time to watch all of it, but just as I had to turn off the TV and leave for work, a young woman whom I did not know was saying something about now in the aftermath men no longer know how to treat woman in the workplace or even elsewhere. Just as I had to leave she said something about men being afraid to hug even long-time women friends.

If what she said about long-term friends is correct, I think that's kind of sad.

Assuming the woman friend is OK with being hugged, of course. (And I don't mean that as a smart-alec remark; I really mean it.)

This reminds me of the news stories from years ago, about fathers, teachers and family friends not being able to be affectionate with their children/students, lest it be mistaken for child sexual abuse. 

Personally, as Chuck said, I know the people at work that I can be "friendly affectionate" with, meaning a hug or other innocuous touch, but it's certainly not a daily occurrence. 

I have no problem going days (or a lot longer) without feeling the need to touch any of my co-workers.  But when I come back to work after a mandatory 3 month separation (temp contract), I hug many people, because we're happy to see each other after a time away.  If I was introduced to a new person in the group, I would not expect or appreciate (or accept) a hug. 
Bye, Felicia

"What a maroon."  Bugs Bunny

"I try to be good...I only manage it in streaks."