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Author Topic: News and Current Events - 2017  (Read 18819 times)

Offline Gazapete

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Re: News and Current Events - 2017
« Reply #1410 on: December 06, 2017, 10:24:02 PM »

The question frames the conversation in terms of retribution, but it is not possible to hold to account every man who has ever behaved disrespectfully and disgustingly toward a woman. Nor even every senator, or every comedian. And, even if it were possible to punish every single one of them, what would be accomplished? Punishment, especially when it is delayed, is not a very effective


This here is the key to the problem, in my opinion. It's so extended that it seems impossible to solve the problem with punishment. The only way to solve this is through education, teaching boys to respect women and empowering girls to be able to respond to this situations. It's a huge social change in a world where powerful men believe they own the people who works for them. And let's not forget, they are still in charge and will be for a while. That's why a no tolerance politic may be the way to draw the line, and punishing the powerful man can be the way to send a message to the "ordinary" man. Because this is not only a problem in Washington or Hollywood, it's everywhere. And I think the place where we have to start to solve it is in the schools.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: News and Current Events - 2017
« Reply #1411 on: December 07, 2017, 07:24:13 AM »
This here is the key to the problem, in my opinion. It's so extended that it seems impossible to solve the problem with punishment. The only way to solve this is through education, teaching boys to respect women and empowering girls to be able to respond to this situations. It's a huge social change in a world where powerful men believe they own the people who works for them. And let's not forget, they are still in charge and will be for a while. That's why a no tolerance politic may be the way to draw the line, and punishing the powerful man can be the way to send a message to the "ordinary" man. Because this is not only a problem in Washington or Hollywood, it's everywhere. And I think the place where we have to start to solve it is in the schools.

I agree. In my opinion not everyone who did something stupid and offensive deserves to be treated like Harvey Weinstein, who is apparently guilty of making criminal assaults.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: News and Current Events - 2017
« Reply #1412 on: December 07, 2017, 07:28:15 AM »
From The New Yorker:


Should Senator Al Franken resign following revelations of sexual harassment? Michelle Goldberg, writing in the Times, says yes, in order to preserve the momentum of “the current movement toward unprecedented accountability for sexual harassers.” Writing in the Washington Post, Kate Harding says no: as a legislator, Franken has done good things for women, and, as a repentant sexual harasser in politics, he could do even more. Both arguments clearly have merit, and both of the writers acknowledge that the opposing view is compelling. But maybe “Should Al Franken resign?” is the wrong question.

The question frames the conversation in terms of retribution, but it is not possible to hold to account every man who has ever behaved disrespectfully and disgustingly toward a woman. Nor even every senator, or every comedian. And, even if it were possible to punish every single one of them, what would be accomplished? Punishment, especially when it is delayed, is not a very effective deterrent.


“Should Al Franken Resign?” Is the Wrong Question
by Masha Gessen

https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/should-al-franken-resign-is-the-wrong-question

I could be wrong, because I came in at the end of the clip, but I would swear I heard Newt Gingrich, of all people, saying that Franken should stay.

On the other hand, Elizabeth Warren says he should go. So does Kristen Gillibrand and, I believe, other senators who are women.

We need all the Democrats we can get. ... ::)

Offline fritzkep

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Re: News and Current Events - 2017
« Reply #1413 on: December 07, 2017, 07:51:23 AM »
Though his replacement would in all likelihood be a Democrat, possibly the current lieutenant governor.

Werd ich zum Augenblicke sagen, "Verweile doch! Du bist so schön..."

Offline Flyboy

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Re: News and Current Events - 2017
« Reply #1414 on: December 07, 2017, 09:21:56 AM »
DEMS OR REPUBS.....they're all in a different world or class than the people they represent!! Take a quick LOOK at their benefits for LIFE!! serving or not, they've covered  themselves for DECADES now........sad, huh? Maybe they are ALL more like Trump than they think, he of the the "Don't Ask, TAKE IT" mentality.......powerful people never ASK, you TAKE IT.......until someone calls you on it.......which, apparently no one ever does...... >:( >:( >:(

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: News and Current Events - 2017
« Reply #1415 on: December 07, 2017, 09:34:07 AM »
Though his replacement would in all likelihood be a Democrat, possibly the current lieutenant governor.

One can only hope. In the political rabbit hole into which this nation has fallen, I wouldn't bet on anything.

Offline Lyle (Mooska)

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Re: News and Current Events - 2017
« Reply #1416 on: December 07, 2017, 10:33:26 AM »
Am I wrong to think that Sen. Franken should not resign?
Especially since he says some of the accusations are false?
 
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 11:09:40 AM by Lyle (Mooska) »

Offline Lyle (Mooska)

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Re: News and Current Events - 2017
« Reply #1417 on: December 07, 2017, 11:08:49 AM »
Well, I spoke too soon, I guess:



Al Franken resigning 'in the coming weeks'
by Eli Watkins and MJ Lee, CNN
Continual Updates, December 7, 2017
(a date which will live in infamy?)


Washington (CNN) Sen. Al Franken announced his resignation from the US Senate on Thursday following several allegations of sexual misconduct.

In his speech on the Senate floor, Franken said he was "upset" by the allegations that he groped and forcibly kissed multiple women, and denied and contested the veracity of some of the accusations.

"I am proud that during my time in the Senate I have used my power to be a champion of women and that I have earned a reputation as someone that respects the women I work alongside every day," he said. "I know there has been a very different picture of me painted in the last few weeks, but I know who I really am."

"Serving in the United States Senate has been the great honor of my life. I know in my heart that nothing I have done as a Senator -- nothing -- has brought dishonor on this institution. And I am confident that the ethics committee would agree."

"I, of all people, am aware that there is some irony in the fact that I am leaving while a man who has bragged on tape about his history of sexual assault sits in the Oval Office and a man who has repeatedly preyed on young girls campaigns for the Senate with the full support of his party."

"But this decision is not about me. It's about the people of Minnesota. It's become clear that I can't both pursue the ethics committee process and, at the same time, remain an effective Senator for them. Let me be clear, I may be resigning my seat, but I am not giving up my voice. I will continue to stand up for the things I believe in as a citizen and as an activist."

But Minnesotans deserve a Senator who can focus with all her energy on addressing the challenges they face every day. There will be a big part of me that will always regret having to walk away from this job with so much work left to be done. But I have faith the work will continue because I have faith in the people who help me do it."

Full speech here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHgqcHSoqeE
The speech is 12 minutes, then there is news commentary afterwards.



Offline Lyle (Mooska)

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Re: News and Current Events - 2017
« Reply #1418 on: December 07, 2017, 11:14:09 AM »

After listening to Franken's speech, is that the kind of man, despite the allegations (some disputed), that women (and men) want to LEAVE the Senate?

Who, in their right mind, would ever want to run for office right now?

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: News and Current Events - 2017
« Reply #1419 on: December 07, 2017, 11:19:47 AM »
Am I wrong to think that Sen. Franken should not resign?
Especially since he says some of the accusations are false?

I wouldn't say that. Just because he chose to resign doesn't me you're wrong in thinking he shouldn't have resigned. I don't think he should have resigned, either.

However, I do think he makes a valid point about the accusations interfering with his work in the Senate. I don't think that's just an excuse.

Offline oilgun

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Re: News and Current Events - 2017
« Reply #1420 on: December 07, 2017, 03:59:01 PM »
After listening to Franken's speech, is that the kind of man, despite the allegations (some disputed), that women (and men) want to LEAVE the Senate?

Who, in their right mind, would ever want to run for office right now?

I don't think he should have resigned either. Maybe he'll run again at the next election, and if that's the case, I'm pretty sure he would win his seat back.
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Offline Gazapete

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Re: News and Current Events - 2017
« Reply #1421 on: December 07, 2017, 11:00:05 PM »
"I am leaving while a man who has bragged on tape about his history of sexual assault sits in the Oval Office,” Sen. Al Franken said.
We could also add Roy Moore to this sentence.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: News and Current Events - 2017
« Reply #1422 on: December 08, 2017, 08:36:53 AM »
We could also add Roy Moore to this sentence.

And he's going to win out of pure cussedness, because nobody is going to tell Alabamans what to do.

And then there's the fact that the spineless Republican National Committee has gone back to supporting a child molester for the United States Senate.

That sound you hear is James Madison et al. spinning in their graves. ...

Offline killersmom

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Re: News and Current Events - 2017
« Reply #1423 on: December 08, 2017, 03:26:41 PM »
And he's going to win out of pure cussedness, because nobody is going to tell Alabamans what to do.

And then there's the fact that the spineless Republican National Committee has gone back to supporting a child molester for the United States Senate.

That sound you hear is James Madison et al. spinning in their graves. ...

And this to me is why NOTHING is going to be done to get pumpkin head out of office. Each individual republican is in it for him/herself, NO MATTER WHAT, screw the American people (which they do on a daily basis). Even if the Russian investigation goes straight back to pumpkin head, the republicans will NEVER vote to impeach him. It would be admitting they were wrong, and that is NEVER going to happen either. This is why I feel there is NO hope for our future as a Democratic nation, at least for the next 3 years and probably longer.
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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: News and Current Events - 2017
« Reply #1424 on: December 08, 2017, 07:09:39 PM »
And this to me is why NOTHING is going to be done to get pumpkin head out of office. Each individual republican is in it for him/herself, NO MATTER WHAT, screw the American people (which they do on a daily basis). Even if the Russian investigation goes straight back to pumpkin head, the republicans will NEVER vote to impeach him. It would be admitting they were wrong, and that is NEVER going to happen either. This is why I feel there is NO hope for our future as a Democratic nation, at least for the next 3 years and probably longer.

I agree.

And I've just read that pumpkin head is perfectly OK with businesses putting "We Don't Serve Gays" signs in their windows.

I'm sure he would have been just as OK with "No Dogs or Irish" signs. ...

This is no longer the nation I grew up in. I don't even recognize any more. So I guess pumpkin head's millions of minions would tell me to leave it if I don't love it as it is.