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Author Topic: Coming out: how and why?  (Read 109150 times)

Offline Lola

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Re: Coming out in the workplace
« Reply #60 on: February 07, 2006, 03:53:20 PM »
Or tell your mother, don't tell your boss ............that was what I said in this post, I wouldn't say that to the person..... sheesh. 


Then I would say, tell your Mom, tell your Dad, your brothers and sisters, your friends,  but maybe not your boss!



At least quote me correctly. 
 
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Offline happycamper

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Re: Coming out in the workplace
« Reply #61 on: February 07, 2006, 03:53:38 PM »
[what is wrong with announcing it then? How is it any different than telling your boss about some other important development in your life, assuming you have those conversations?

Nothing wrong with announcing it, I just personally don't see why one would feel the need to do so.  I questioned him about it because I'd like to understand his motivation, nothing more. 
You said later that you found it "bizarre" that people would want to announce it. Bizarre is a word that does carry some judgement. The story described this as a wonderful new development for him that he wanted to share, and he was very saddened by the response of the director, and instead of offering condolences several people questioned why he did what he did. Not very sensitive. Why not question the director's actions and wonder why she made the comment she did, instead of telling him that he should have taken a different approach to coming out.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2006, 03:56:24 PM by happycamper »

Offline Lola

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Re: Coming out in the workplace
« Reply #62 on: February 07, 2006, 03:57:40 PM »
Gordo said:

she was very supportive and very gracious - and she said

You know gordonleo this ministry is very very tolerant and very very accepting


You are judging the director, where is the part where she said anything awful??

 
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Offline mountain boy

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Re: Coming out in the workplace
« Reply #63 on: February 07, 2006, 04:02:21 PM »
Gordo said:

she was very supportive and very gracious - and she said

You know gordonleo this ministry is very very tolerant and very very accepting


You are judging the director, where is the part where she said anything awful??
I definitely agree with you on this point Lola - what she said sounds appropriate to me.

I think I understand that the feeling of being "tolerated" rather than something more or better was not sitting well with Gordon, and I empathize with that. But being "accepted" is better, so what he says the boss said seems good.

As you noted, we can't really speak for Gordon - maybe he can give us more details on that.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2006, 04:24:23 PM by wdj »

Offline Lola

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Re: Coming out in the workplace
« Reply #64 on: February 07, 2006, 04:08:09 PM »
Thanks!!  :)

Also Happycamper said..............instead of telling him that he should have taken a different approach to coming out.

I think that was the point, we just weren't sure why he felt the need to "come out" to the director of the company.

But he clearly did.   And as others have stated they don't feel that need.  And I know in my company homosexuality was not an issue.

So the only way it would have been brought up was if there had been a problem with some other employees or if it was in regard to benefits etc.

So yea I am sticking with "stunned" but I would have been nice, because I am a nice person.   ;)
 
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sactopete

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Re: Coming out in the workplace
« Reply #65 on: February 07, 2006, 04:09:49 PM »
Why don't you just say "No, I live with my partner Bob", or that you're not firmly attached but have a boyfriend, or something of that ilk.  And say that you and Bob would like to get married one day.

Helen, when I did live with someone, that's exactly what I said and dealt with the consequences which weren't always easy.  But I've been single since '97.  And you'd think some of this crap would have gone away as I mature.  Not.

And I agree entirely with Jim, these are not confrontations that I go looking for.  I am not confrontational on the job.  I tend to leave jobs.  I am amazed at the personal information that people spew at me on the job with no encouragement on my part.  I'd rather not have to announce my orientation on the job, because in my experience doing so somehow makes me answerable and responsible for everything that every other gay person has done.  Doing so only means that I have to hear everyone else's "right of expression" which isn't always pleasant.


helen_uk

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Re: Coming out in the workplace
« Reply #66 on: February 07, 2006, 04:15:11 PM »
instead of telling him that he should have taken a different approach to coming out.

I did not say he should have taken a different approach - he can take any approach he likes, it's his life.  All I am saying is that I don't understand why he took this approach (why anyone would take this approach) and in order to further my understanding I am asking the question "why was this approach taken?"

There is no judgement in anything I have said.  None whatsoever.

Offline Lola

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Re: Coming out in the workplace
« Reply #67 on: February 07, 2006, 04:22:31 PM »
I feel like no matter what we say some people (certainly not all people) will take it the wrong way.

Eddie Murphey did a stand up act years ago and in it he jokes about being at the airport and the porter saying "is that your suitcase" and he got mad and said "yea why a black man can't have a suitcase"

I mean you see how crazy that is??  If people have a chip on their shoulders (and some clearly do) you can't blame that on the rest of us.

Although honestly I can understand why any group of people who are repressed for a long time, may feel that way.

But I swear, I personally never repressed anyone!   :-\

The funny thing about this post is I think we are basically all on the same page, just saying things differently.  And where the heck is gordo?? lol
 
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Offline happycamper

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Re: Coming out in the workplace
« Reply #68 on: February 07, 2006, 04:32:15 PM »
I think we are pretty much spinning wheels at this point, so I won't keep gunning it  ;D but I just ask that those who question why this person took the approach that he did turn that question back at themselves and ask why not? Why are you questioning what he did?

helen_uk

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Re: Coming out in the workplace
« Reply #69 on: February 07, 2006, 04:42:01 PM »
I think we are pretty much spinning wheels at this point, so I won't keep gunning it  ;D but I just ask that those who question why this person took the approach that he did turn that question back at themselves and ask why not? Why are you questioning what he did?


I have answered the why not question.  Fairly early on in this discussion in fact. It's either at the beginning of this thread, or in the previous one.

We are asking why because...we don't understand  ::)  and would like to.

sactopete

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Re: Coming out in the workplace
« Reply #70 on: February 07, 2006, 04:42:13 PM »
I feel like no matter what we say some people (certainly not all people) will take it the wrong way.

Eddie Murphey did a stand up act years ago and in it he jokes about being at the airport and the porter saying "is that your suitcase" and he got mad and said "yea why a black man can't have a suitcase"

I mean you see how crazy that is??  If people have a chip on their shoulders (and some clearly do) you can't blame that on the rest of us.

Although honestly I can understand why any group of people who are repressed for a long time, may feel that way.

But I swear, I personally never repressed anyone!   :-\

The funny thing about this post is I think we are basically all on the same page, just saying things differently.  And where the heck is gordo?? lol

Lola,  did someone accuse you of repressing anyone?  I missed that.  The crime of driving while black is pretty real.  I know black guys who have had to deal with the police when they've locked the keys to their own Mercedes in the car. 

Offline Lola

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Re: Coming out in the workplace
« Reply #71 on: February 07, 2006, 04:51:12 PM »
I feel like no matter what we say some people (certainly not all people) will take it the wrong way.

Eddie Murphey did a stand up act years ago and in it he jokes about being at the airport and the porter saying "is that your suitcase" and he got mad and said "yea why a black man can't have a suitcase"

I mean you see how crazy that is??  If people have a chip on their shoulders (and some clearly do) you can't blame that on the rest of us.

Although honestly I can understand why any group of people who are repressed for a long time, may feel that way.

But I swear, I personally never repressed anyone!   :-\

The funny thing about this post is I think we are basically all on the same page, just saying things differently.  And where the heck is gordo?? lol

Lola,  did someone accuse you of repressing anyone?  I missed that.  The crime of driving while black is pretty real.  I know black guys who have had to deal with the police when they've locked the keys to their own Mercedes in the car. 

Yes I was "accused" of something, but I am over it! lol

And Eddie Murphey was just talking about owning a suitcase, not driving.  But I am sure (even in this day and age) that is an issue, sad but true.

And again to agree with Helen, we answered "why not" many times, in this and the other topic!  ;D
 
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Offline lightsrays05

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Re: Coming out in the workplace
« Reply #72 on: February 07, 2006, 05:15:41 PM »


On my last job (I work as a waiter) I got a feeling that I should not come out. And I didn't at the beginning... The couple who owned the place, his wife said on the interview that she had a priest who went there quite a bit, so I was a little aprehensive to come out.

(Not that I can hide much anyways...)

Anyhow she many many times hinted at me that I was "afraid of women".

Some meetings she would say "sit next to her, she doesn't bite"...

Which for me it's the ultmost stupidity to say to someone. But she is the boss, how do I respond to someone like her Lola?

Another time she made a comment on my hand-writting. Called it "flamboyant". You might have read it.

Anyhow, I think I lost the job because she resented me for some reason. I think it's because of her husband enjoying me very much. Everytime she bashed me with him he defended me.

So what I am wondering is how to respond to these kinds of situations.

It's really frustrating to HAVE to deal with people's idiocy.

That's why I think it's completely WRONG to *HIDE* who you are. These people should not be the morons that they are.

THEY are the wrong ones, not us.

There is NOTHING wrong with being gay.



Offline happycamper

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Re: Coming out in the workplace
« Reply #73 on: February 07, 2006, 05:16:39 PM »
I think we are pretty much spinning wheels at this point, so I won't keep gunning it  ;D but I just ask that those who question why this person took the approach that he did turn that question back at themselves and ask why not? Why are you questioning what he did?


I have answered the why not question.  Fairly early on in this discussion in fact. It's either at the beginning of this thread, or in the previous one.

We are asking why because...we don't understand  ::)  and would like to.
I am really trying to quit this topic!  ::) I looked up your why not on the other thread. Sorry I don't know how to do cross-thread quoting:

"Because it has absolutely no relevance to my job or my ability to do my job.  I would no sooner tell my boss that I was bisexual than I would tell them any other personal information about myself that I wasn't required to.

And if I were a boss and one of my employees came to me and told me they were gay I'd be just as perplexed.  I wouldn't give a shit, and would wonder why they felt the need to tell me something that was so irrelevent to their job."

The fact of the matter is that many things that are equally tangential to the job are discussed, such as vacation plans, what town you live in, the ages of your kids, politics (unfortunately!  ;D), house repairs, upcoming nuptials (ad nauseum) why should this one be off-limits?

If a gay person has a partner, it is likely that person is listed as beneficiary and emergency contact in personnel files that a manager has access to. If you are out to any co-workers, word could get back to your boss. Also, if there is a holiday party, and you are planning to bring your partner or a date of the same gender, what is wrong with being proactive about it, instead of waiting until you are standing there in evening attire to find out whether or not your boss is a big homophobe? If you are in sales, it might be a good thing to check how your boss is going to feel if you don't reciprocate in the back-slapping department when a client tells an anti-gay joke.

I could go on and on, but basically, it is a part of you that you can't hide without some major self-editing or keeping to yourself anyway, especially if you are in a relationship with a person of the same gender, and if you are going to let your boss know in one way or another, why is the direct approach any worse than letting something slip?

helen_uk

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Re: Coming out in the workplace
« Reply #74 on: February 07, 2006, 05:27:11 PM »
The fact of the matter is that many things that are equally tangential to the job are discussed, such as vacation plans, what town you live in, the ages of your kids, politics (unfortunately!  ;D), house repairs, upcoming nuptials (ad nauseum) why should this one be off-limits?

I'll just say that these aren't things I would speak to the Director of the company about.  Sure, I'd discuss them with my colleagues, but then I imagine my sexual orientation would come up at some point too with them, and it would be no big deal.

Also (I haven't quoted this, but let's pretend I did) why would I be concerned about word getting back to my boss about my sexuality?  Why would I be concerned about 'letting something slip'.  I've got nothing to hide.  If I turned up at a party with my same sex partner and found out my boss was a homophobe then fuck him.  He would be no less a homophobe if I'd walked into his office and announced my sexuality, would he?  You talk about keeping it hidden - I have no wish to do that, so don't. 

And I'm not in sales, so can't answer that!  :)

I just get the impression that you feel there are two alternatives - announce it to the Director of the company or keep it hidden, with the risk of 'slipping'.  I've no intention of doing either.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2006, 05:30:49 PM by helen_uk »