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Author Topic: Coming out: how and why?  (Read 149763 times)

Offline brianr

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Re: Coming out: how and why?
« Reply #810 on: February 18, 2017, 11:34:24 AM »
Oh wrong impression. My sister has always been my greatest supporter, not that we do not have arguments but not over my sexuality.  I chat with her on Skype (we live 3000 km apart) every morning for about 30 minutes. She is 10 years older than me so now 82 and I often said I had 3 parents. She saw her young brother (about 21 years of age) hanging round in a leather jacket with a lot of bikies in the most notorious area of the city. She had no idea I was gay. She rang one of my best friends who was the  son of my Rector, never told my parents. This would have been about  1965.
Sorry had to say that now will read the rest. I have got out of bed late so only have 10 minutes before I need to connect with her

Offline fritzkep

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Re: Coming out: how and why?
« Reply #811 on: February 18, 2017, 12:00:35 PM »
By the way, congratulations on your area being declared the newest continent!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zealandia_(continent)

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Offline brianr

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Re: Coming out: how and why?
« Reply #812 on: February 18, 2017, 12:50:01 PM »
question: did you mean the "beach" near the school, or am i just not aware of what "the beats" means? i have heard of cottaging! :D   also, what does "bikies" mean? it sounds like a motorbike gang. i ask about "beach" because in alameda, CA, the beach in those times were where gay men would congregate and cruise about. also, in SF, there was a busy spot (the windmills) at the end of golden gate park, right across from the pacific ocean.
Did not realise "beats" is not known outside Australia. It is/was a place for gays to hang out usually a toilet, pretty grotty.  I think cottage is the same but that sounds so English to me. Back in the 50's/60's  it was difficult to find the gay scene, mainly private parties from what I gather. I did not find the bars until the mid 70's and even then they could be raided which as I have said would have been a disaster for a teacher even in state schools.
Yes bikies are biker gangs. I still go weak at the knees if I see a guy in a leather jacket and have several. However I do not like facial hair much.
how strange to think that broken marriages and divorce was so shameful in those days, because now it's so commonplace that kids are actually amazed to learn that somebody's parents have actually never been divorced! at least that's how it seems in los angeles.
Yes, a bit the same here but my sister stuck with her husband when he began seeing another woman in the late 80's. It brought us closer together, we had drifted apart. My mother wanted me to remonstrate with him but I am 10 years younger and he knows I am a gay (and is a homophobe although we just do not say anything to each other for my sister's sake). Then he became very ill and almost died. His other woman disappeared but my sister went every day to the hospital to help him for over a month. She believes in her wedding vows. So he realised he was on a good thing. He is now too incapacitated to do without her.
Back in the 90's I was teaching adults and one woman brought her problems to me. She was breaking up with her husband and did not know how her daughter would react to the news. I thought it was funny when she told me her daughter said something like "Oh good, I am not the only one in the class now whose parents aren't divorced."
good to know about the date change in your post. i was gonna say, 1969 seemed early to be on a public panel about gay rights! good for you for doing that, even if it outed you in the process.
I wasn't actually on the panel. Just sitting listening and the camera came down and panned me up and down. I thought I had 24 hours (but hoped it ended on the cutting room floor) but it was on the late news so all over the school the next day. Somehow I survived. All went well until AIDS when kids became more nasty.
it boggles the mind that so may folks out there STILL want to make it impossible for openly gay teachers to teach in our schools. or to adopt and raise kids. smh... tsk tsk tsk
I could write a lot about the students who did come out to me, some happy, some sad. perhaps later. There is one, Paul, he now lives in Hawaii, is a psychiatric nurse, a US citizen, married and his husband is a ship board entertainer. Matt, his husband and a native Hawaaiian, comes on the Gay cruise of NZ that ends at the Sydney Gay Mardi Gras every 2nd year but I am disappointed is not sailing this year. Paul came with him in 2010, I had only been here a month, had bought my house but not moved in. We had lunch and I drove them around but Matt fell asleep after working late in the ship cabaret.  Next time Matt was alone and asked to be taken to the Penguin colony. He rounded up 2 of the passengers to join us. Asian doctors from SF. They were beautiful guys, bought my lunch.
Then 2 years ago Paul came again and I took them to lunch and a scenic drive as well as back at my place. We toured the chocolate factory and the place was full of guys from the cruise and Paul, now in his late 40's, told everyone I was his gay teacher who helped him come out. Actually Paul is so flamboyant he did not need much help in coming out. He is one of those gays you can tell a mile off even when he was a teenager. At a school reunion in about 2009 he came over to the staff table and said "Brian, we are having a photo of all the gay guys, come and join us." That amused the brothers and many lay staff because it was from the year just before I was outed. He always asks me when I am getting married, but I tell him I am a lost cause.

I must go and get breakfast, have finished chatting with my sister.

Offline gnash

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Re: Coming out: how and why?
« Reply #813 on: February 18, 2017, 06:45:52 PM »
Oh wrong impression. My sister has always been my greatest supporter, not that we do not have arguments but not over my sexuality ......



(a quick response before dinner)

what a relief! i thought perhaps your sister had it in for you... i wasn't sure what "bikies" meant, and i thought it may have been some gay scene. :)


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Offline brianr

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Re: Coming out: how and why?
« Reply #814 on: February 18, 2017, 07:29:08 PM »
'bikies" are in gangs - Marlon Brando style, "bikers" just ride motor bikes and may be old and respectable.

Offline gnash

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Re: Coming out: how and why?
« Reply #815 on: February 19, 2017, 06:06:30 AM »
Did not realise "beats" is not known outside Australia. It is/was a place for gays to hang out usually a toilet, pretty grotty.  I think cottage is the same but that sounds so English to me. Back in the 50's/60's  it was difficult to find the gay scene, mainly private parties from what I gather. I did not find the bars until the mid 70's and even then they could be raided which as I have said would have been a disaster for a teacher even in state schools.

beats is totally new for me! that go-go's song goes, "we got the beats, we got the beats, we got the beats.. we got it!" has new meaning to me now! ;D

also, BEATS BY DRE, haha.. (those are the headphones the rap fans love to use)

it can still be difficult to find a scene where gays hang, but i understand that fitness centers and gyms can be a place to surreptitiously get your "beats" on... i suppose it can happen anywhere, as long as you can rely on eye contact and body language. it's amazing what can be accomplished with a certain look, a subtle squeeze, or a nod of the head.

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Yes bikies are biker gangs. I still go weak at the knees if I see a guy in a leather jacket and have several. However I do not like facial hair much. Yes, a bit the same here but my sister stuck with her husband when he began seeing another woman in the late 80's. It brought us closer together, we had drifted apart. My mother wanted me to remonstrate with him but I am 10 years younger and he knows I am a gay (and is a homophobe although we just do not say anything to each other for my sister's sake). Then he became very ill and almost died. His other woman disappeared but my sister went every day to the hospital to help him for over a month. She believes in her wedding vows. So he realised he was on a good thing. He is now too incapacitated to do without her.

it sounds like he's surrendered more than come around. but that's good he tolerates you. he's lucky that she's standing by her man, some women leave their husbands when they cheat.

i had to chuckle about the leather jacket because i thought you said you got DOWN on your knees if you see a guy in a leather jacket... ;)

Quote
Back in the 90's I was teaching adults and one woman brought her problems to me. She was breaking up with her husband and did not know how her daughter would react to the news. I thought it was funny when she told me her daughter said something like "Oh good, I am not the only one in the class now whose parents aren't divorced." I wasn't actually on the panel. Just sitting listening and the camera came down and panned me up and down. I thought I had 24 hours (but hoped it ended on the cutting room floor) but it was on the late news so all over the school the next day. Somehow I survived. All went well until AIDS when kids became more nasty. I could write a lot about the students who did come out to me, some happy, some sad. perhaps later. There is one, Paul, he now lives in Hawaii, is a psychiatric nurse, a US citizen, married and his husband is a ship board entertainer. Matt, his husband and a native Hawaaiian, comes on the Gay cruise of NZ that ends at the Sydney Gay Mardi Gras every 2nd year but I am disappointed is not sailing this year. Paul came with him in 2010, I had only been here a month, had bought my house but not moved in. We had lunch and I drove them around but Matt fell asleep after working late in the ship cabaret.  Next time Matt was alone and asked to be taken to the Penguin colony. He rounded up 2 of the passengers to join us. Asian doctors from SF. They were beautiful guys, bought my lunch.

Then 2 years ago Paul came again and I took them to lunch and a scenic drive as well as back at my place. We toured the chocolate factory and the place was full of guys from the cruise and Paul, now in his late 40's, told everyone I was his gay teacher who helped him come out. Actually Paul is so flamboyant he did not need much help in coming out. He is one of those gays you can tell a mile off even when he was a teenager.

somehow you survived... that's reassuring. i know what you mean about AIDS. it gave homophobes an excuse to sound their horns. :(

paul sounds great, and matt sounds fun too... i like that paul told the others that you helped him come out. he may have been already out, or seemed so gay he didn't need to come out, but the fact remains that even the gayest of queens want somebody to look up to, to inspire them and boost their self esteem. that you simply accepted him could have been what he appreciated. there aren't nearly enough teachers out there that can make gay kids feel accepted and good about himself/herself. you did good to come out, however you were outed.

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At a school reunion in about 2009 he came over to the staff table and said "Brian, we are having a photo of all the gay guys, come and join us." That amused the brothers and many lay staff because it was from the year just before I was outed. He always asks me when I am getting married, but I tell him I am a lost cause.

lost schmost!!  :D  i saw a quote today that said, "you're never too old to start thinking about the future!"

i think that's a nice way of looking at it. remember, even if you think everything is behind you, there's always something ahead to look foward to!



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Offline gnash

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Re: Coming out: how and why?
« Reply #816 on: February 19, 2017, 06:07:51 AM »
By the way, congratulations on your area being declared the newest continent!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zealandia_(continent)

wow that's cool.... is it the smallest continent, i wonder?

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Offline gnash

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Re: Coming out: how and why?
« Reply #817 on: February 19, 2017, 06:14:46 AM »
'bikies" are in gangs - Marlon Brando style, "bikers" just ride motor bikes and may be old and respectable.


haha... that sounds fair enough. :D

i noticed that the oldest of bikers often graduate to three-wheelers, or trikes. much less apt to fall over on them. my BIL is a biker, and he's nearing sixty, and i've suggested that he get a trike, since he's getting worried about things and absolutely refuses to drive a car. he's never owned a car in his life, but he's owned several motorcycles. he doesn't imagine himself ever driving a car.

he owns several black leather jackets too, btw. and black leather pants as well...  8) :P :D


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Offline fritzkep

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Re: Coming out: how and why?
« Reply #818 on: February 19, 2017, 10:05:46 AM »
wow that's cool.... is it the smallest continent, i wonder?

It looks on the map like it might be.

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Offline brianr

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Re: Coming out: how and why?
« Reply #819 on: February 19, 2017, 11:16:41 AM »
i noticed that the oldest of bikers often graduate to three-wheelers, or trikes. much less apt to fall over on them. my BIL is a biker, and he's nearing sixty, and i've suggested that he get a trike, since he's getting worried about things and absolutely refuses to drive a car. he's never owned a car in his life, but he's owned several motorcycles. he doesn't imagine himself ever driving a car.

he owns several black leather jackets too, btw. and black leather pants as well...  8) :P :D
I have always dreamed of owning a bike but cannot even ride a push bike due to bad balance and the few times of have been a pillion rider, I have been scared stiff.  The closest I came was to owning a mini moke. Gave me an excuse to wear leather another reason of many for my moving to a colder climate, not much chance to wear leather casually in humid Sydney.  I also have leather pants but never wear them out and lots of biker boots. A real problem is leather is heavy for carrying on planes. Have struggled home several times from San Francisco.
One needs to come out as a fetishist as well as gay.  :(
Last year at the mid winter festival, I bumped into a close woman friend while wearing my heavy duty biker jacket. She knows I am gay but said, "Where is your bike?" She did not know I had heavy almost knee high biker boots on but under my jeans. I have had to make up stories about having owned a bike in the past many times.

Offline brianr

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Re: Coming out: how and why?
« Reply #820 on: February 19, 2017, 11:20:13 AM »
wow that's cool.... is it the smallest continent, i wonder?
Am afraid I think that is ridiculous, I have a geography degree. Australia is the smallest of 7 continents. New Zealand is an archipelago. the world's fifth largest.

Offline Lyle (Mooska)

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Re: Coming out: how and why?
« Reply #821 on: February 19, 2017, 11:27:24 AM »

Zealandia is also known as Tasmantis?  Which does anyone prefer?

___________

When they show maps about all the continents and how they fit together
before they broke apart, I'm wondering how would the sunken parts of
Zealandia fit together with that?

Offline brianr

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Re: Coming out: how and why?
« Reply #822 on: February 19, 2017, 11:43:05 AM »
Zealandia is also known as Tasmantis?  Which does anyone prefer?
I do not even like the name New Zealand. I have been to Zeeland and it is flat, nothing like my mountainous, island home. Like many people, when I am being formal I say I live in Aotearoa New Zealand. And very rarely do we say we are New Zealanders, we say we are Kiwis. (Aotearoa - Maori -  means Land of the Long White Cloud). Just because the first European visitor was a Dutchman, we have this stupid name.
I was born and grew up in New South Wales, another stupid name. European explorers grrrrr.

Offline brianr

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Re: Coming out: how and why?
« Reply #823 on: February 19, 2017, 04:04:46 PM »
Getting back on topic or at least students coming out to me.
My first 10 years of teaching was in State Schools. I still have a number of good friends from the students, some gay but none would have come out to me as I was not out to anyone either and had no idea of where to find the gay scene. Only towards the end was I having some sexual experiences by magazine adverts.
We suffered in silence. I regularly fell in love with my students (they were over 16) and while I took them on camping and surfing trips, I never did anything illegal.
One, Garry, was a student on my first school camping trip to NZ and he taught me a lot. He was very into girls but would put his arm around me and he was outstandingly attractive (I was only 5 years older). He only had to smile and all the girls (and some guys) melted. I took him and 2 other boys (one I now know is also gay) on a camping holiday for 3 weeks the following Christmas after they left school and it was one of the best holidays of my life.  It was when my mother found me crying over him that I came out to her.  We lost contact over the years, Garry was a head executive for Nestles and lived in Ireland, Greece and USA. Before the internet keeping contact was difficult.  Another student of that year has kept in contact because he also became a geography teacher.  In 2010 he told me Garry had spinal cancer and we visited him when I was back in Sydney. Garry died 6 months later and again I cried and still have tears today.

However his best mate right from kindergarten got in contact. I was not as close to Malcolm in school days but he was one of the crowd. I have since visited Malcolm in England and stayed with him in France in 2015. He is back in Australia and keeps in regular contact. I think Mal is bi. He is married, kids and grandkids but has also cried when talking about Garry and tells me he went to gay bars with Garry back when they were in their 20's (if only I had known  ::) ) although mainly for a lark  ::) or so he says.
I came out to him in France mainly because he told me he was being best man for a gay marriage of a friend in England.

Six years younger is Graham. His parents were very good to me. I was by that time living in a 2 room apartment and they often invited me for dinner or away for weekends with them. Once they asked me to stay with Graham at their house while they went on holidays. If they had only known :-). I also took Graham away camping and surfing with others and he has always called me big brother. He asked me to be his best man, how I envied Cheryl, his wife. A few years later when I was more confident of myself I told him I was gay and he replied "I have known that for a long time." He always wants to give me a big hug but says he draws the line at a kiss ;D. He has 4 kids and (I think) 8 grandkids.
He embarrasses me by telling everyone how I changed his life. Both his older brothers became criminals but he became a school principal. Every time he tells me (mostly on my birthday) that I did so much for him growing up, I say but you must realise I had my motives but he ignores that.

This is taking longer than I intended, will continue later.

Offline Sara B

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Re: Coming out: how and why?
« Reply #824 on: February 20, 2017, 03:13:30 AM »
Brian (glad you are yourself again!), it's good to read all this... How the past is interwoven with the present.