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Author Topic: Mourning Someone Who Has Died  (Read 343042 times)

Offline davidjoseph

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Re: Mourning Someone Who Has Died
« Reply #30 on: May 12, 2006, 10:24:14 AM »
Thanks for the kind words of support. The grieving goes on. It's just part of how we deal with this sort of loss. BBM reminded me that having any intimate relationhip with another person is a gift to be appreciated when that person is alive, and to to remembered after they're dead. At the same time looking at the two young guys in the film reminded me of my son and how fragile all people ( young or not)  are. Those characters illicit ed such empathy. Seeing them have to suffer was another intense sadness about the film. My protective parental instincts wanted so badly for both of them to be safe and together in the comfort of their love.

Offline babysany

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Re: Mourning Someone Who Has Died
« Reply #31 on: May 12, 2006, 01:08:41 PM »
(((David)))  I am so glad you went for grief counseling.  I cannot imagine the pain you went/are going through.  I feel grief for my sister but my mother is much more haunted.

Offline amdaz

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Re: Mourning Someone Who Has Died
« Reply #32 on: May 12, 2006, 01:09:11 PM »
But I feel that nothing really prepares you for the death of someone you love deeply. I've noticed that the emotions that come up in grief (denial,fear,loss,hurt,depression,anger) aren't really in any predetermined order. They come into consciousness at inconvenient times. A smell, a song or another person's voice may trigger them.

I found this to be especially true.

First of all I'm glad to have stumbled into this particular thread. I thought that after over 10 yrs I have effectively dealt with the loss of the Love of my life but BBM brought it all back to the surface, open the wound fresh.

I'll be visiting this thread more often but at this moment I'd just like to share what I did at the anger phase.
I was so angry at one time a few weeks after Robby's death that I did a thorough cleaning of the apartment getting rid of everything his. I gave away most, throw the rest and even burned some stuff. Then a few months later I was so depressed that I have nothing of him left. I had to eat my pride and went to his sugar daddy and beg for one of Robby's picture from him 'cause I had nothing left.

I have always tell grieving friends after this to never ever attempt to do this kind of thing alone. You need some one with a cooler  head to be there and help you sort out what to keep and what to throw away.
Lesson learnt the hardest way.

Offline Lola

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Re: Mourning Someone Who Has Died
« Reply #33 on: May 12, 2006, 02:07:14 PM »
Oh yes, those things we are left with, pictures, even a small item like a scarf, become very precious.   They tell you not to make any rash decisions, don't throw things away, don't move, don't make any life altering decisions.  Just take a breath and see where you are in a few months.

And I just want to say as far as BB went I felt very protective of Ennis and Jack, like I would have killed anyone who dared harm them.

Grief is a strange thing, it is terrifying when you are in the throws of it, but somehow even more terrifying when you are out of it, if that makes sense.

It makes me feel kind of guilty to even be happy.   :(


 
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Offline Dal

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Re: Mourning Someone Who Has Died
« Reply #34 on: May 12, 2006, 05:15:58 PM »
Grief is a strange thing, it is terrifying when you are in the throws of it, but somehow even more terrifying when you are out of it, if that makes sense.

It makes me feel kind of guilty to even be happy.   :(

It is as if, so long as you grieve, they are somehow still alive.  Or as if, when you mourn, you honor them.  As if by returning to your own life once more, you belittle them, and only then do they really vanish.  At least that's how it feels to me.  I don't want to hold on to grief, but I do not want to let go of the person I'm grieving for.  Crazy. 

Dal
« Last Edit: May 12, 2006, 05:37:32 PM by Dal »
Mommy, can I be on the kill list when I gwow up?
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Offline Lola

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Re: Mourning Someone Who Has Died
« Reply #35 on: May 12, 2006, 07:45:16 PM »
That is exactly how I feel!  :'(
 
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Offline Dal

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Re: Mourning Someone Who Has Died
« Reply #36 on: May 12, 2006, 08:38:29 PM »
*sigh* 

Well I guess we'll get over it 'cause our Mas and Pas didn't raise no fools.  They are probably trying to kick our butts right now, in ghostly form!

Sweet weekend Lola

Dal
Mommy, can I be on the kill list when I gwow up?
Of course honey, any American can -- thanks to President Obama!!

Offline Sharyn

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Re: Mourning Someone Who Has Died
« Reply #37 on: May 12, 2006, 10:12:42 PM »
*sigh* 

Well I guess we'll get over it 'cause our Mas and Pas didn't raise no fools.  They are probably trying to kick our butts right now, in ghostly form!

Sweet weekend Lola

Dal

Totally!  (hi everyone! thanks for your thoughts!)  still getting out from under boxes but I had to respond...    After my mother died in 2000, my dad who had cared for her during her 4 1/2 year battle with Breast Cancer, sold the house I grew up in (30+ years of life lived in that house) and was in FL by Aug of 2001. My mother never through anything away and the apple doesn't fall from the tree! Going through that house that held not only memories but physical reminders of them, of her, of what used to be, was absolutely devastating yet cathartic. I had to touch each and everything and it was how I started to say good bye... to let go of the grief.... It is why I absolutely lose it and LOVED the scene where Ennis finds the shirts... I not only knew why Jack saved them, but I understood how Ennis feld finding them... how love and memory come rushing back...    This human condition is something... 

I still have a lot of my mother's things... some of my grandmother's too...   I have trouble letting them go (the house was hard enough even though looking back, I can see it helped) It is extrememly difficult to think that things they touched and used can just be in a box or worse, thrown away. Is that what it comes to? being thrown away? Forgotten? That's what I stuggle with...  Similar like living in grief-- if I am doing "well" does it mean I'm "over it"? that i've "Forgotten?"  I am always missing and thinking of my mother... ALWAYS... some days more than others.   I think what makes grief difficult is society's fear of grief and of death...   really if I am doing well, i know it doesn't mean I am "over her death" but I do fear other's think that I am and will then forget later on, when I'm not doing ok, that I still grieve for her and damn it... that is ok too!... I've gotten better at the roller coaster, shouldn't they??    know what I mean?

Davidjoseph, I am deeply saddened for you as well as your son's fiance.... a devastating loss for you both... I'm glad you found this site and that you and your son had a good relationship.

Lola-- thanks for your kind words... I'm sorry for your losses as well... and thank you for realizing that being 24 when my mother and grandmother died sucked too! I'm involved in some Motherless Daughter groups and some have lost their moms when they were under the age of 10 which is its own kind of loss, but losing mom as a young adult when the world is opening up and when you are finally getting to understand her as a person and as a friend is its own kind of suckness....

as for being illprepared for death... i'll say this... mom battled cancer for 4 1/2 years... during that time i was away at college-- exactly where I was supposed to be. She never wanted me to worry about her and wanted me to be living my life... to be doing what I was doing. A great thing really, but anytime I called home, she told me she was "ok"... doing "well" and it was easy to believe b/c I didn't see what chemo did to her other than her losing her hair. And I didn't see the disappointment seep in to her ever-hopeful eyes when the stem cell transplant didn't work. A week before she died, she, dad, and I were in OC, NJ and she was jaundaced, the whites of her eyes yellowing, and she developed black and blue spots all over. She was a nurse and when my dad told her, her eyes were yellow, she said, "please don't tell me that."  Somehow I left her for the last time in OC and came back to VA and a few days later she called to say she was "ok" but 2 nights later dad called to tell me she was given 2 weeks to 2 months.  I started packing to get home... packed a box of things we were going to do together one last time... watch The Goodbye Girl and When Harry Met Sally, read... only she was gone in 2 days and I never made it to see her again.  She was yellow... had been given 2 week to 2 months to live and I was still packing a box of things we were going to do together.  I still believed my mother would have made it... that we deserved the miracle-- not sure i've yet forgiven the universe for not thinking we did.  I am not sure there is a way to be prepared-- even if you're my dad and realistic like he was. There is prepatory grief, but still I don't think he knew what life was really going to be like with out her. He knew he'd have a life without her and while he is doing well, you can tell, he'd be happier with her around.   As for me... denial was a beautiful thing... and as devastating as losing her was, I personally (at least at this poing in the journey) am grateful that I was ever the believer. I still got to tell her I loved her and that she was a great mom, but looking back, I am not sure either of us knew how to say goodbye. How do you? 

Dal-- I think my mom tries to kick me in ass all the time!  :)

HUGS!
I miss you Jackie!

Offline Lola

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Re: Mourning Someone Who Has Died
« Reply #38 on: May 13, 2006, 10:13:53 AM »
(((HUGS)))) Dal!


Sharyn what can I say to you?  :'(  I read through that twice to begin to absorb it.  You are probably in the place where my son was when my Mom died.

He loved my Mom, like a Mother.  She took care of him while I worked, she took him back and forth to school when he was little.  Her and my Dad lived with us, so he really knew no life without my Mom.

When she got sick he was away at University, of course he was concerned and tried to make it home on weekends.  But like your Mom, she wasn't having any of that, she wanted him to concentrate on his studies.

I on the other hand was here, never missed a day with her, took her to all her chemo, took her to all the doctors visits, all the tests, I was the strong one, while my Dad fell apart.  In the end, I fed her, I bathed her, we spent evenings curled up in her bed watching movies and sharing stories.

My son never got any of that and it bothers him.  By the time he came home, she was really going down hill, she was in the hospital for 3 days before she passed and she did not want him to see her like that.  I respected her wishes and so did he.

I was the only one who was there in the final days, of course by that time she was unconscious.  I never really knew how affected he was until he cried one day, really cried and told me he "never got a chance to say goodbye"

And I said the same thing to him, as you just said "how do you say goodbye"  How do you say goodbye to someone you love more than life?

You know what I said, I said "see you later"  And you will see your Mom later, she is waiting for you.

Here is a poem I read at my Mom's funeral, hope it helps a bit:

Death is nothing at all

I have only slipped away into the next room

I am I and you are you

Whatever we were to each other

That we are still

Call me by my old familiar name

Speak to me in the easy way you always used

Put no difference into your tone

Wear no forced air of solemnity or sorrow

Laugh as we always laughed

At the little jokes we always enjoyed together

Play, smile, think of me, pray for me

Let my name be ever the household word that it always was

Let it be spoken without effort

Without the ghost of a shadow in it

Life means all that it ever meant

It is the same as it ever was

There is absolute unbroken continuity

What is death but a negligible accident?

Why should I be out of mind

Because I am out of sight?

I am waiting for you for an interval

Somewhere very near

Just around the corner

All is well.

Nothing is past; nothing is lost

One brief moment and all will be as it was before

How we shall laugh at the trouble of parting when we meet again!

 

Canon Henry Scott-Holland, 1847-1918, Canon of St Paul's Cathedral
 
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Offline BthovenRox

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Re: Mourning Someone Who Has Died
« Reply #39 on: May 13, 2006, 09:01:08 PM »
Michael...I don't have the right words to even express my sorrow for you. How strong you are to be there for HIM knowing all this about him. If in fact he did kill your mom,then God took care of him,and he will reward you for your kind heart.You've earned a few brownie points to heaven in his book. I think if it were me,I'd probably plan HIS death...Oh God....how did you find that strength?


I don't know how I did it.  I am a firm believer in karma: or at least in cause and effect if you will (christians have trouble with karma)... but nevertheless.  If brownie points could be earned, then I hope I got them.  I guess I couldnt let him die the way he let my mother.  It's just me.  I saw how his daugher's left him... and then they showed up afterwards for the inheritance that was GONE!  LOL

Peace to all

Michael in Northern WV

Offline BthovenRox

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Re: Mourning Someone Who Has Died
« Reply #40 on: May 13, 2006, 09:03:46 PM »
Michael  they must have some idea how your Mom died, did they suspect heart attack or maybe stroke?   If you cared for your step-father up until his death, I am really suprised he never opened up to you at the end (if he had something to share).

They suspected a heart attack but they dont know what brought it on.  She had no history.  Alot of people were surprised that he didnt open up to me... but understand that he had lung AND brain cancer.  I dont know if he could open up.  Nevertheless, it happened. 

Michael

Offline BthovenRox

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Re: Mourning Someone Who Has Died
« Reply #41 on: May 13, 2006, 09:05:57 PM »
Thanks for the kind words of support. The grieving goes on. It's just part of how we deal with this sort of loss. BBM reminded me that having any intimate relationhip with another person is a gift to be appreciated when that person is alive, and to to remembered after they're dead. At the same time looking at the two young guys in the film reminded me of my son and how fragile all people ( young or not)  are. Those characters illicit ed such empathy. Seeing them have to suffer was another intense sadness about the film. My protective parental instincts wanted so badly for both of them to be safe and together in the comfort of their love.


David- Know that someone in Northern WV is praying for you- that somehow is a way through this.

Michael

Offline sunnysdc

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Re: Mourning Someone Who Has Died
« Reply #42 on: May 14, 2006, 04:10:04 PM »
I read DavidJosephs post about losing his son and just cried my eyes out...I lost my 16 year old daughter in `98 and altho it wasn`t a tragic accident like his son, my daughter chose to take her own life, the loss of a child is nearly unbearable and it stays with you every single day no matter how long ago it was.  I had begun to climb into a deep dark hole when my brokeback mountain moment happened...a man had come along who sympatized with my loss and we formed a friendship that lasts to this day...but we fell in love at that time and it was a forbidden love because he was married.  The passion we had parallelled Ennis` and Jacks.  I think that`s why this movie so affected me.  It was never going to be a real relationship but the passion was strong and real at the time.  Maybe it was the grief I was experiencing, or the guilt, or maybe I just wanted to escape into someone else for awhile...whatever it was I have never lost the feelings it left me with.  Altho I was very angry that we couldn`t have this for real, that my daughter left me like that, that I stood so close to that deep, dark hole, I think somehow his love did keep me from dissappearing into that abyss.  And like DavidJoseph I too once saw a young lady that looked like my daughter from behind and couldn`t help myself from calling out her name.  It is like a gut blow...this movie is like that.  But it is also made me stop hiding and do some of the things that I`ve always wanted to do.  Like Ennis, we can grieve forever and make that our passion or continue to love and live with the passion that held so much promise for us.  I`ve been so afraid that I might not want to live without her...since the movie I am no longer afraid to live and actively seek all those passions that this world and my life holds for me.  It doesn`t take away the fact that I would do anything to have my daughter back and I think anyone who has lost a child would think this way.  God bless you for being strong.  Thank you all for starting this thread...but...sorry...gotta go...tears!!  dang it!!




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Offline davidjoseph

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Re: Mourning Someone Who Has Died
« Reply #43 on: May 14, 2006, 08:19:37 PM »
Sunnysdc,
Amazing post! Thanks for telling us about your daughter. I understand all the self-questioning that goes into having a child die. Even though my son was killed in an accident and he simply lost control of his car on an icey road, something nags at me about what happeend, as if I somehow failed him or if he wasn't visiting the east coast this crash wouldn't have occured. What has been helpful for me in the healing process are a few simple things that somehow change my own attitude about his death. First I gave away most of his clothes  and some personal items to his friends. This low-key gesture meant so much to all of them. It was like Ennis taking the shirts from Jack's mother in BBM. Each friend of his held whatever they received with a certain reverence and love for him. And I also kept a few of his clothes, including one particular tee-shirt that he liked. I wear it occasionally just to remind myself of our love. I don't think of this as negative but rather a soft and physical expression of us being close. As time goes on I think we become more creative about how to deal with the loss of our loved one. It's one of the inspiring aspects of being a human being. My thanks to Sunnysdc again. I'm sending you some positive thoughts.

Offline sunnysdc

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Re: Mourning Someone Who Has Died
« Reply #44 on: May 15, 2006, 12:57:10 AM »
Thanks for the positive thoughts davidjoseph...very much appreciated.  I too had given away some of my daughters things to her friends etc and it was a very good thing to do.  Unfortunately some of the things I would of loved to keep the most, like her writings, journals and poems, she had thrown away beforehand without my knowledge.  Her clothes, always retained her scent and when they started to lose that I began to get rid of them.  It`s all part of the process, I understand that.  But sometimes things like 911 and BBM come along and that dark grief creeps up on me again like a tidal wave...that`s part of it all too I suppose.  It`s a good thing.  I sure do miss her tho! 

BTW-I don`t know if your last name is Joseph but that is her last name!  Thanks again!!
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