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Author Topic: Ennis and Cassie Scenes  (Read 120027 times)

Offline spark

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Re: Scene:Ennis and Cassie
« Reply #45 on: February 01, 2006, 03:37:14 PM »
Hi all, this is a truly a moment in my life as this is the very first time I post anything anywhere on the net. I've been around this board, practically glued to the forum since the first viewing. It's been great to know that I'm not crazy to continuously go back to see the movie and cry my eyes out, which in fact also happens every time I think of the movie...

Everyone seems to have great insights/analysis to the movie and I know that my reactions are still very emotional but I thought I'd give my thoughts on 'castrating the cow' part, that is, my initial response to the line. I haven't gone as far as to be able to analyze the movie let alone why my life has turned upside down and inside out since watching the movie so please bear with me ^_^

My focus was more on 'earlier today' part than the castrating part to be honest, as in 'I've done that this morning but who knows what I'll be doing tomorrow?', which I thought led into what E says to J in their last scene, 'no one, nowhere' and how much he's been juggling his life trying to see J and simultaneously fulfill his duties as a father. He does seem to have a more stable job than when he was younger (from what he tells J again in the last scene together) in order to provide child support and all but it didn't sound like a permanent thing. As there isn't any other mention of what E does for living since the divorce (apart from the hint that he is working hard and thus cannot see J often enough), I thought this line reflected his conditions of life, and also not having anything stable except J and Alma Jr.

There are many things swarming in my head but I'll stop before I really begin rambling. It took a while to write even this short post and as embarrassed as I am, I thought i'd finally give it a try... I am so glad I found this site and thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts. You certainly have kept me sane and relatively 'stable' for the past few weeks.  ;D

Offline peteinportland

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Re: Scene:Ennis and Cassie
« Reply #46 on: February 01, 2006, 03:45:31 PM »
Spark, thank you. Good insight into the emphasis on "this morning." It fits in with how Proulx describes Ennis. You come back and see us again now. Posting is such a great emotional release!

Cowboysnkisses, I did pick up on that. I'm still not sure how it might relate back to the bar scene with Jack, but I agree the emasculation reference is a key. And where have you been with your very insightful self?

Mr. Wrong

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Re: Scene:Ennis and Cassie
« Reply #47 on: February 01, 2006, 06:10:17 PM »
Spark, thank you. Good insight into the emphasis on "this morning." It fits in with how Proulx describes Ennis. You come back and see us again now. Posting is such a great emotional release!

Cowboysnkisses, I did pick up on that. I'm still not sure how it might relate back to the bar scene with Jack, but I agree the emasculation reference is a key. And where have you been with your very insightful self?


Is that last sentence an example of flirting by posting? just asking.  :D

Offline Cowboysnkisses

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Re: Scene:Ennis and Cassie
« Reply #48 on: February 01, 2006, 08:51:52 PM »
Cowboysnkisses, I did pick up on that. I'm still not sure how it might relate back to the bar scene with Jack, but I agree the emasculation reference is a key. And where have you been with your very insightful self?

Why, thanks, Pete.  I've been here and there.  I haven't had much time to post lately.  How have things been going?  I see another milestone has been passed with 30,000 posts.  That's great.

In the bar scene, both talk about their childhoods.  Ennis relates only the death of his parents and being raised by his brother and sister and then forced out on his own (of course we learn later that there is much more to the story), while Jack actually relates how he could never please his father (and we later find out how much of a bastard his father really was).  Given the importance of the father figure in the development of a healthy male ego, I would see this as evidence of the emasculating influence of both their fathers.
Now we know why Oscar is not anatomically correct.
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Offline peteinportland

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Re: Scene:Ennis and Cassie
« Reply #49 on: February 02, 2006, 01:30:51 AM »
Spot on! That's it! *a light bulb goes off in his dim mind* I knew someone would be able to find the link for that statement to the bar scene with Jack and Ennis. Thank you!

Offline Chance

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Re: Scene:Ennis and Cassie
« Reply #50 on: February 06, 2006, 09:23:41 AM »
Acey, probably months passed between those scenes.

Cassie gets so far with Ennis because Ennis is a lonely, scared man who is probably happy for the company, the attention, and the validation of his masculinity and manhood (remember, Cassie meets Ennis after the Thanksgiving scene when Alma outs him). Plus, in seeing her three scenes again last night, she pursues Ennis in much the same way that Jack does.

Their first meeting is much like Ennis and Jacks. "I'm Cassie Cartwright." "Ennis." Then a pause, and we can hear the line from Jack in our heads. "You're folks stop at Ennis?" With Cassie, after the pause, Ennis adds, "Del Mar." Then Cassie dances with Ennis, although Cassie is doing all the work, just as Jack did most of the dancing around each other on BBM. Cassie makes the first move with an uncomprehending Ennis by putting her feet in his lap. She gets to call him "Dummy" because he is so clueless.

One of the things I find so heartbreaking in his scenes with Cassie (especially as a gay man) is how different Ennis can be with Cassie and not with Jack, the love of his life. He can take Cassie on an outing with his daughters. He can dance with Cassie in the bar and rub her feet. He can have teary public emotional scenes. He can do all those things with this girl he has just met, but never with Jack.

In the last scene with Cassie I feel so much for both of them. She has no idea that he is already taken heart and soul by Jack. And he can't tell her. I really like Cassie and think she would be good for Ennis, except for Jack got there first many years before.


I totally agree. Cassie is voluptuous, come-hither, robust femininity that offers Ennis an opportunity to
develop a relationship and a new life.  He wouldn't dare. He knows inside what he longs for. And it's not
this female - no matter how wonder-filled she is. And this actress does one heck of a job in the short time she's on screen - in showing opportunity passed by - while Ennis longs for his true but secreted life-mate --
Jack Twist.

Offline bbbmedia

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Re: Scene:Ennis and Cassie
« Reply #51 on: February 06, 2006, 10:13:58 PM »
Saw Brokeback for the third time yesterday. Hated the Cassie scenes more than ever. She is just so intrustive and unnecssary. She slows down the action and is a very heavy handed way for McMurtry and Ossana to make the point that Ennis is a loner. I'd rather eat a pie all by myself than put up with the likes of Cassie. I'll bet I won't be the only one skipping past the Cassie scenes when the DVD comes out.



   
What Jack remembered and craved in a way he could neither help nor understand was the time that distant summer on Brokeback when Ennis had come up behind him and pulled him close, the silent embrace satisfying some shared and sexless hunger.

Offline Three of Nineteen

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Re: Scene:Ennis and Cassie
« Reply #52 on: February 08, 2006, 05:44:01 AM »
I don't feel the Cassie scenes are unnecessary at all.
I think Ennis responded to her advances because of his growing paranoia. In the scene before we are introduced to Cassie, Ennis asks Jack if he thinks people know and how he feels watched. I think when Cassie approaches Ennis, he sees this as an oppotunity to quench the rumors he thinks are making the rounds. However, he later dumps her because he either is too numb after the last scene with Jack at the lake or because he doesn't want to use her like that and end up hurting her like Alma ("I propably wasn't much fun anyways").
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Offline HerrKaiser

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Re: Scene:Ennis and Cassie
« Reply #53 on: February 08, 2006, 09:02:24 AM »
I don't feel the Cassie scenes are unnecessary at all.
I think Ennis responded to her advances because of his growing paranoia. In the scene before we are introduced to Cassie, Ennis asks Jack if he thinks people know and how he feels watched. I think when Cassie approaches Ennis, he sees this as an oppotunity to quench the rumors he thinks are making the rounds. However, he later dumps her because he either is too numb after the last scene with Jack at the lake or because he doesn't want to use her like that and end up hurting her like Alma ("I propably wasn't much fun anyways").

I agree the Cassie scenes are crutial. However, I have a slightly differnt take. By the by, I think the "dumps her" scene is before the last scene at the lake which means that he was already moving closer and closer to a commited gay relationship. in fact his own family and Alma WANTED him to get married again, so he had every opportunity to play it "straight" if he was so inclined.

Back to Cassie scenes in general, I think her character shows how vulnerable a gay man can be when a woman makes approaches to him. I do not think Ennis saw her as a opportunity to squelch fabricated rumors. Rather, he seems "forced" into accepting her advances because he probably fears that his turning away would get the response "what's wrong with you?". Nearly every gay man I have ever known has gone through the fix ups, dating/mating game, office party hook ups with women etc etc and they went along for a while so that they were not wondered about. Close to the same point you made, 3of19, but Ennis' actions were responsive rather than proactive.

then, at some point, he simply stopped because, I am sure, the sex and commitments got too involved, and regardlless of what pop culture says about bisexuality and multiple relationships, they are tough to handle!  ;)

Further, I think Cassie represented the "final chance/opportunity" for Ennis to break away from Jack. Ennis chose Jack. This is in spite of Ennis' speech in their last scene in which he bemoans his life. The opposite behaviors, the contractions, the inner debate, and his difficulty with the struggle for his one true direction all endorse and support the wonderful, horrible life of Ennis Delmar.

Offline Three of Nineteen

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Re: Scene:Ennis and Cassie
« Reply #54 on: February 08, 2006, 02:29:51 PM »
Yeah, thats propably a better interpretation. Turning her down could definately have stoked the rumors in Ennis mind.
"Hast du nur ein Wort zu sagen // Nur ein Gedanken // Dann lass es Liebe sein"
"If you have just one word to say // Just one thought // Then let it be love"
- Rosenstolz, "Liebe ist alles"

Offline fishinbuddy

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Re: Scene:Ennis and Cassie
« Reply #55 on: February 08, 2006, 10:01:50 PM »
Quote
I agree the Cassie scenes are crutial. However, I have a slightly differnt take. By the by, I think the "dumps her" scene is before the last scene at the lake which means that he was already moving closer and closer to a commited gay relationship.

Nope, after, and this is key. I think Ennis is filled with guilt over Jack's pain (the revelation at their last meeting was his exposure not only to Jack's possible infidelity but the clear laying out of Jack's pain in the full light of day ("You have no idea how bad it gets", "Sometimes I miss you so much I can't hardly stand it") and his own sense of responsibility for denying Jack his dream, and fear of Jack leaving him, thinking about Jack constantly, "is he in Mexico in another _man's_  arms?"

All in all, I think it was just too much. One only has so much psychic energy and I don't think Ennis could do it all anymore - love Jack, miss Jack, be afraid of exposure, try to keep a demanding person such as Cassie (I mean that in the best way, she is a demand on him for attention, affection, and possibly commitment - not a wallflower this one!) content. It also makes sense that the sexual and emotinoal side of their relationship just rang too hollow for him to be anything but dismayed he wasn't with Jack. You can see it in his face in the diner scene - when she comes up on him, he has been morosely eating, looking like he just came from a funeral. He is so consumed by the situation with Jack he can't handle anything else.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2006, 10:05:11 PM by fishinbuddy »
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Offline peteinportland

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Re: Scene:Ennis and Cassie
« Reply #56 on: February 08, 2006, 10:47:16 PM »
Quote
I agree the Cassie scenes are crutial. However, I have a slightly differnt take. By the by, I think the "dumps her" scene is before the last scene at the lake which means that he was already moving closer and closer to a commited gay relationship.

Nope, after, and this is key. I think Ennis is filled with guilt over Jack's pain (the revelation at their last meeting was his exposure not only to Jack's possible infidelity but the clear laying out of Jack's pain in the full light of day ("You have no idea how bad it gets", "Sometimes I miss you so much I can't hardly stand it") and his own sense of responsibility for denying Jack his dream, and fear of Jack leaving him, thinking about Jack constantly, "is he in Mexico in another _man's_  arms?"

All in all, I think it was just too much. One only has so much psychic energy and I don't think Ennis could do it all anymore - love Jack, miss Jack, be afraid of exposure, try to keep a demanding person such as Cassie (I mean that in the best way, she is a demand on him for attention, affection, and possibly commitment - not a wallflower this one!) content. It also makes sense that the sexual and emotinoal side of their relationship just rang too hollow for him to be anything but dismayed he wasn't with Jack. You can see it in his face in the diner scene - when she comes up on him, he has been morosely eating, looking like he just came from a funeral. He is so consumed by the situation with Jack he can't handle anything else.

Very nice FNB. I'll second that.

ToolPackinMama

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Re: Scene:Ennis and Cassie
« Reply #57 on: February 09, 2006, 01:07:23 AM »

Back to Cassie scenes in general, I think her character shows how vulnerable a gay man can be when a woman makes approaches to him. I do not think Ennis saw her as a opportunity to squelch fabricated rumors. Rather, he seems "forced" into accepting her advances because he probably fears that his turning away would get the response "what's wrong with you?". Nearly every gay man I have ever known has gone through the fix ups, dating/mating game, office party hook ups with women etc etc and they went along for a while so that they were not wondered about. Close to the same point you made, 3of19, but Ennis' actions were responsive rather than proactive.

then, at some point, he simply stopped because, I am sure, the sex and commitments got too involved, and regardlless of what pop culture says about bisexuality and multiple relationships, they are tough to handle!  ;)

Further, I think Cassie represented the "final chance/opportunity" for Ennis to break away from Jack. Ennis chose Jack. This is in spite of Ennis' speech in their last scene in which he bemoans his life. The opposite behaviors, the contractions, the inner debate, and his difficulty with the struggle for his one true direction all endorse and support the wonderful, horrible life of Ennis Delmar.

Well said.  Ditto.

sskater

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Re: Scene:Ennis and Cassie
« Reply #58 on: February 12, 2006, 09:59:20 PM »
 :) I enjoyed the scenes with Cassie in them. Initaially Alma tries to empathize and understands Ennis' loneliness. I thought she was feeling guilt about the divorce after the thanksgiving dinner but Ennis poured salt into the wound which she quickly wanted to address- by saying to Ennis in so many words, I ain't stupid E and then kinda pushed the knife in and turned for allo fher worth. This was the last time Ennis and Alama were in the same room. (the future wedding excepted).

lynn

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Re: Scene:Ennis and Cassie
« Reply #59 on: February 14, 2006, 08:59:37 AM »
A new interview with LARRY McMURTRY and DIANA OSSANA: http://www.cinemalogue.com/2006/02/14/brokeback-interview/

Their comments on the Cassie scenes:

MW: For what purpose did you expand the role of Cassie (Linda Cardellini), and what part did she play in Ennis’ relationship to the women in his life?

DO: Cassie somewhat exemplifies Ennis’s continual denial of his emotional makeup, and his attempts to have what he believed was a “normal” relationship with a woman. After his and Jack’s final confrontation about Mexico, Ennis realizes that it is Jack he truly loves, and he simply cannot continue in his attempts at a relationship with Cassie, thus her confronting him in the diner about his whereabouts and her frustrations and painful realization that she’s not “the one.”