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Author Topic: Ennis and Cassie Scenes  (Read 123431 times)

Offline David

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Re: Scene:Ennis and Cassie
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2006, 08:10:52 PM »
Acey, probably months passed between those scenes.

Cassie gets so far with Ennis because Ennis is a lonely, scared man who is probably happy for the company, the attention, and the validation of his masculinity and manhood (remember, Cassie meets Ennis after the Thanksgiving scene when Alma outs him). Plus, in seeing her three scenes again last night, she pursues Ennis in much the same way that Jack does.

Their first meeting is much like Ennis and Jacks. "I'm Cassie Cartwright." "Ennis." Then a pause, and we can hear the line from Jack in our heads. "You're folks stop at Ennis?" With Cassie, after the pause, Ennis adds, "Del Mar." Then Cassie dances with Ennis, although Cassie is doing all the work, just as Jack did most of the dancing around each other on BBM. Cassie makes the first move with an uncomprehending Ennis by putting her feet in his lap. She gets to call him "Dummy" because he is so clueless.

One of the things I find so heartbreaking in his scenes with Cassie (especially as a gay man) is how different Ennis can be with Cassie and not with Jack, the love of his life. He can take Cassie on an outing with his daughters. He can dance with Cassie in the bar and rub her feet. He can have teary public emotional scenes. He can do all those things with this girl he has just met, but never with Jack.

In the last scene with Cassie I feel so much for both of them. She has no idea that he is already taken heart and soul by Jack. And he can't tell her. I really like Cassie and think she would be good for Ennis, except for Jack got there first many years before.

I don't see the Cassie/Jack parallel at all -- Jack doesn't pursue Ennis in the same way Cassie does whatsoever. Cassie's very forward, more like a "predator" to site the infamous word. She purses him when he's clearly not interested. Jack's not like this at all. He flirts with Ennis on BBM in an understated way. Jack doesn't do the equivalent of sticking his feet on his lap. It has a completely different feel to it. The only person who is good for Ennis is Jack. Cassie wouldn't be good for him because a woman will never do it for him. It would be a huge mistake, like Alma. And in that finals scene with Cassie, he knows that.

Lauren, while Cassie puts her feet in Ennis' lap, Jack does put his erect #@!* in Ennis' hand.
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kumari

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Re: Scene:Ennis and Cassie
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2006, 08:13:32 PM »
Acey, probably months passed between those scenes.

Cassie gets so far with Ennis because Ennis is a lonely, scared man who is probably happy for the company, the attention, and the validation of his masculinity and manhood (remember, Cassie meets Ennis after the Thanksgiving scene when Alma outs him). Plus, in seeing her three scenes again last night, she pursues Ennis in much the same way that Jack does.

Their first meeting is much like Ennis and Jacks. "I'm Cassie Cartwright." "Ennis." Then a pause, and we can hear the line from Jack in our heads. "You're folks stop at Ennis?" With Cassie, after the pause, Ennis adds, "Del Mar." Then Cassie dances with Ennis, although Cassie is doing all the work, just as Jack did most of the dancing around each other on BBM. Cassie makes the first move with an uncomprehending Ennis by putting her feet in his lap. She gets to call him "Dummy" because he is so clueless.

One of the things I find so heartbreaking in his scenes with Cassie (especially as a gay man) is how different Ennis can be with Cassie and not with Jack, the love of his life. He can take Cassie on an outing with his daughters. He can dance with Cassie in the bar and rub her feet. He can have teary public emotional scenes. He can do all those things with this girl he has just met, but never with Jack.

In the last scene with Cassie I feel so much for both of them. She has no idea that he is already taken heart and soul by Jack. And he can't tell her. I really like Cassie and think she would be good for Ennis, except for Jack got there first many years before.

I don't see the Cassie/Jack parallel at all -- Jack doesn't pursue Ennis in the same way Cassie does whatsoever. Cassie's very forward, more like a "predator" to site the infamous word. She purses him when he's clearly not interested. Jack's not like this at all. He flirts with Ennis on BBM in an understated way. Jack doesn't do the equivalent of sticking his feet on his lap. It has a completely different feel to it. The only person who is good for Ennis is Jack. Cassie wouldn't be good for him because a woman will never do it for him. It would be a huge mistake, like Alma. And in that finals scene with Cassie, he knows that.

And this what Alma Jr is trying to tell Cassie, except that she is not even sure what she is saying.

Offline peteinportland

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Re: Scene:Ennis and Cassie
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2006, 08:42:43 PM »
Lauren, it is much easier for Cassie to pursue Ennis because she can be very straight forward. Jack has to proceed very gingerly because if he makes a wrong move, and Ennis is offended, Jack might wind up dead. I also think Ennis is obviously interested in Cassie to some degree; after all they dated to the point that Cassie was thinking of marriage and Ennis felt comfortable taking her to meet his daughter.

I think you do underscore how much easier it is for Cassie to pursue Ennis than it is for Jack to do so. Even today, gay men and women do not have the same freedom to openly pursue objects of our affection (especially in rural areas) or engage in so many of the small intimate gestures that straight people take for granted (holding hands or kissing in public for example---outside the major gay ghettos). I personally think contrasting Ennis and Jack's relationship with Ennis and Cassie's speaks volumes about the heartbreak of the constraints that Jack and Ennis have to face.

Offline Ross:Broken

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Re: Scene:Ennis and Cassie
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2006, 10:53:37 AM »
I don't think Ennis realizes the folly of his relationship with Cassie until after Jack dies. He realizes that Cassie, like Alma, will never mean anything to him like Jack. He can't explain it, but he has to hurt her. It's sad, but true, to hear her say 'I don't understand you Ennis del Mar.' Only Jack really understood Ennis. But I think in the end he knows that he'll never go down that path again. Although he may not find another man, he won't ever take up with a woman.

Canmark, I totally agree, and in my opinion, this is the reason why the Cassie relationship is so important to the movie.  To me, Cassie represented Ennis' "last chance" for something resembling a domestic life.  We know all too well why Ennis would not allow for a happy life with Jack, and the end of his relationship with Alma was fated when she first saw them together.  But if he (or we) tried to fool ourselves into thinking that he might somehow forge a semblance of a life with another person and not be alone (outwardly, at least) for the rest of his life (despite the fact that his heart would always, always lie with Jack), it's dashed when we see what happens with Cassie.  Here's an attractive (yeah, a bit trashy, but hey...), vivacious woman who is devoted to him and obviously willing to do all the heavy lifting and yet it won't work out.  That's the nail in the coffin for me: Ennis will always be alone.

I think LC was great and she delivers one of my favorite lines from the movie: "Girls don't fall in love with FUN, Ennis!"  Guess what, Ennis?  Neither do boys.  Damn.
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Offline lauren

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Re: Scene:Ennis and Cassie
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2006, 12:32:21 PM »
I don't think Ennis realizes the folly of his relationship with Cassie until after Jack dies. He realizes that Cassie, like Alma, will never mean anything to him like Jack. He can't explain it, but he has to hurt her. It's sad, but true, to hear her say 'I don't understand you Ennis del Mar.' Only Jack really understood Ennis. But I think in the end he knows that he'll never go down that path again. Although he may not find another man, he won't ever take up with a woman.

Canmark, I totally agree, and in my opinion, this is the reason why the Cassie relationship is so important to the movie. To me, Cassie represented Ennis' "last chance" for something resembling a domestic life. We know all too well why Ennis would not allow for a happy life with Jack, and the end of his relationship with Alma was fated when she first saw them together. But if he (or we) tried to fool ourselves into thinking that he might somehow forge a semblance of a life with another person and not be alone (outwardly, at least) for the rest of his life (despite the fact that his heart would always, always lie with Jack), it's dashed when we see what happens with Cassie. Here's an attractive (yeah, a bit trashy, but hey...), vivacious woman who is devoted to him and obviously willing to do all the heavy lifting and yet it won't work out. That's the nail in the coffin for me: Ennis will always be alone.

I think LC was great and she delivers one of my favorite lines from the movie: "Girls don't fall in love with FUN, Ennis!" Guess what, Ennis? Neither do boys. Damn.

Canmark -- The scene with Cassie takes place before Ennis knows that Jack has died. At this point (after hearing what Jack said during their last trip together), he's rejecting this other path with a woman utterly because he knows Jack is the only one for him and a woman will never satisfy him. I also think he's alone after this.

Offline 909dot

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Re: Scene:Ennis and Cassie
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2006, 04:51:18 PM »
Why does Ennis play "Sweet Malissa" on the juke box in the bar scene with Cassie and his daughter...any ideas...it must mean something...the movie is to well thought out to not...any ideas?....anyone?

Todd
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Offline peteinportland

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Re: Scene:Ennis and Cassie
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2006, 02:39:06 AM »
I don't remember the lines to the song. You bet it has some significance. Anyone know the words?

Offline gnash

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Re: Scene:Ennis and Cassie
« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2006, 02:54:38 AM »
is it the allman brother's song?

"Melissa"

Crossroads seem to come and go.... yeah
The gypsy flies from coast to coast,
Knowin' many lovin' none,
Bearin' sorrow havin fun,

But back home He'll always run....
..to sweet Melissa. mmmhmmm...

Freight train, each car looks the same.... all the same
And no one knows the gypsy's name,
No one hears his lonely sigh,
There are no blankets where he lies,

In all his deepests dreams the gypsy flies.....
..to sweet Melissa.

Again the mornin's come,
Again he's on the run,
Sunbeams shinin' through his hair,
Appearin' not to have a care.
Pick up your gear n' gypsy roll along...
..roll along.

Crossroads, would you ever let him go? ...no, no.
Oh will you hide the dead man's ghost?
Or will he lie beneath the plain?
Will his spirit roll away?

But I know that he wont stay...
..without Melissa.

Yes I know that he wont stay...
..without Melissa.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2006, 02:56:43 AM by gnash »

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Offline sport

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Re: Scene:Ennis and Cassie
« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2006, 03:08:04 AM »
I've seen some posters here opining that Jack is the only man to whom Ennis has ever been sexually attracted (implying that he's usually attracted to women), and others who consider Ennis to be gay and unlikely to have ever been happy in a relationship with a woman, regardless of whether or not he had ever met Jack.  I'm wondering how people take Ennis' line in the last scene with Cassie, "Guess I wasn't much fun anyway," to which she responds, "Ennis, girls don't fall in love with fun."  Does Ennis mean "fun in the sack," or fun in general (because he's so in love with Jack and feels so lost without him)?
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Offline peteinportland

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Re: Scene:Ennis and Cassie
« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2006, 03:27:20 AM »
I'm sorry, but if those are indeed the right lyrics, they give me goosebumps. Melissa is close to being formed with letters from Ennis Del Mar (missing one s). We see so much of the same imagery from the song in the movie: freight train, sunlight in his hair, crossroads referring to BBM, shit, the whole song. Look at it!

Brokeback Mountain is a cross road for the Jack and Ennis. Look at these lines:

Crossroads, Brokeback Mountain would you ever let him go? ...no, no.
Oh will you hide the dead man's ghost?
Or will he lie beneath the plain?
Will his spirit roll away?

It also fits with other songs referring to the hobo (or gypsy) life.

If Jack is the gypsy, he always runs home to Ennis.

Maybe, I am tired and loopy, but this song in relation to the movie makes me shiver. Seriously. It is the story of Jack and Ennis. It fits as perfectly as the Spanish song playing in the Mexican alley. I am really touched by these lyrics. Spooky.

Offline peteinportland

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Re: Scene:Ennis and Cassie
« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2006, 03:41:02 AM »
I just come across a line in the book where Ennis sees the family plot, and he "didn't want to know Jack was going in there, to be buried on the grieving plain." Lordy, those lines from the song are spooky.

Offline huntinbuddy

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Re: Scene:Ennis and Cassie
« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2006, 04:41:22 PM »
I also picked up on the song "Melissa" by the Allman Brothers playing in the background as Ennis & Cassie sort of danced.  As with most songs in movies, you get just a snippet of the lyrics, but instantly I recalled the whole song while at the movie as it was one I used to perform with a group I was in in high school.....oh so many years ago now (1976). The Allman Brothers have been very prolific recorders, but the Album that I have and still listen to quite frequently (actually I have it digital now (CD)), is the "Eat A Peach" album which is dedicated to a brother....Duane Allman, and I believe it was released in 1972.   Are the lyrics haunting for this movie?  Most certainly!   Who would have come up with something like this....the writers (McMurtry)??
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Offline savadi

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Re: Scene:Ennis and Cassie
« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2006, 05:04:34 PM »
re: dancing to " melissa" scene
I believe they played this song at Duane Allman's funeral. Did anyone notice that in this scene, while Ennis was dancing with Cassie, there is couple dancing next to them, and the guy is wearing a dark hat similar to Jack's? I think Lee placed him there as a reminder of Jack, he is not in the room physically but his prescence is there just the same. In fact, I think there are several scenes where Lee has a sort of Jack "ghost" nearby to signify that Ennis may be living apart from Jack but Jack is always in his mind. One of which is right before he gets the post card from Jack announcing his visit, he gets out of the truck to come in the house and a man in a dark hat pases him in the street. I'll have to see the movie again but I think this occurs several times.

Offline 909dot

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Re: Scene:Ennis and Cassie
« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2006, 06:20:58 PM »
is it the allman brother's song?

"Melissa"

Crossroads seem to come and go.... yeah
The gypsy flies from coast to coast,
Knowin' many lovin' none,
Bearin' sorrow havin fun,

But back home He'll always run....
..to sweet Melissa. mmmhmmm...

Freight train, each car looks the same.... all the same
And no one knows the gypsy's name,
No one hears his lonely sigh,
There are no blankets where he lies,

In all his deepests dreams the gypsy flies.....
..to sweet Melissa.

Again the mornin's come,
Again he's on the run,
Sunbeams shinin' through his hair,
Appearin' not to have a care.
Pick up your gear n' gypsy roll along...
..roll along.

Crossroads, would you ever let him go? ...no, no.
Oh will you hide the dead man's ghost?
Or will he lie beneath the plain?
Will his spirit roll away?

But I know that he wont stay...
..without Melissa.

Yes I know that he wont stay...
..without Melissa.

THANK YOU SO MUCH...it makes so much sense now..of course,,,it gives me chills also...if you are familiar with the book, After Ennis leaves Jacks family, he drives by the family  plot...a depressing grave Yard ...Annie writes..."he didn't want to know Jack was going in there, to be buried on the grieving plain." ...wow..I'm floored...the line in the song "Or will he lie beneath the plain"....wow is all i can say...

Todd
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Offline 909dot

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Re: Scene:Ennis and Cassie
« Reply #29 on: January 18, 2006, 06:22:56 PM »
I just come across a line in the book where Ennis sees the family plot, and he "didn't want to know Jack was going in there, to be buried on the grieving plain." Lordy, those lines from the song are spooky.

Sorry...just read your post...

Todd
"maybe you should get outa there...move someplace different...maybe Texas."