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Author Topic: Non believers who love Brokeback Mountain  (Read 390251 times)

Offline jasonwv

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Re: Non believers who love Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #120 on: July 01, 2006, 03:45:27 PM »
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It is a very nice Saturday so far.  Got the garden hoed again, and everything is looking pretty good.  Can not wait until the cucumbers begin to produce.



“we must [simply] cultivate our garden.”--Voltaire ;)
There never was a good war or a bad peace-
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Offline jasonwv

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Re: Non believers who love Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #121 on: July 01, 2006, 04:05:13 PM »
My ego just won't let me grasp the idea of there being nothing after I die. I think hope there is something afterwards because I want to be me forever. What's that song? "I gotta be me" :D  I do think that if there is an afterlife it's nothing like any religion has imagined .
           Now, a question for Doug and Vic. If you believe there is nothing afterwards do you also believe that
no one should choose an easy life? Is it our moral obligation to become activists against societal wrongs and injustices because if we don't do it no God will and we only have one shot to do something? 
     
There never was a good war or a bad peace-
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Offline Doug2017

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Re: Non believers who love Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #122 on: July 01, 2006, 04:06:44 PM »
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It is a very nice Saturday so far.  Got the garden hoed again, and everything is looking pretty good.  Can not wait until the cucumbers begin to produce.



“we must [simply] cultivate our garden.”--Voltaire ;)

Yep, and it is good to get out in the fresh air.  Enjoy the warm breeze and see life doing it's thing. 

Besides if I do not keep up with the garden I just get a big lot of weeds, not very helpful to the grocery budget. <wink>

Here is a couple of pics so you get an idea...





Take Care,
Doug

Reality contains no contradictions, for how can something be and not be at the same time? Visit Us on the NON-BELIEVERS Thread.

Offline jasonwv

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Re: Non believers who love Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #123 on: July 01, 2006, 05:46:27 PM »



Very nice Doug!  :)
There never was a good war or a bad peace-
Ben Franklin

Offline Doug2017

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Re: Non believers who love Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #124 on: July 01, 2006, 08:02:26 PM »
My ego just won't let me grasp the idea of there being nothing after I die. I think hope there is something afterwards because I want to be me forever. What's that song? "I gotta be me" :D  I do think that if there is an afterlife it's nothing like any religion has imagined.

Understand.  It is hard for the mind to gasp that it's consciousness will not exist forever, because there has never been a time it is aware of that it was not there.  If you have ever been put under sedation, you would understand, perhaps, that once the mind is not functional, there is no consciousness.  Being dead there is no functional mind, therefore no consciousness.  All illusions of consciousness without a functioning brain is just that, illusions. 

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Now, a question for Doug and Vic. If you believe there is nothing afterwards do you also believe that
no one should choose an easy life? Is it our moral obligation to become activists against societal wrongs and injustices because if we don't do it no God will and we only have one shot to do something? 

One should not choose an easy life, if they are capable of more, one then is just cheating themselves. Having said that, many people have such a hard life, do not see any other choices, and really wished there was an easier way.  I see Ennis caught here.

No, it is not our moral obligation to become activists against societal wrongs and injustices. It is our moral obligation to be as happy and productive as we can be, what ever that means to one.  Happiness is the goal of life, not sacrificing for the good of others. If social activism is your thing, then by all means be active, however if it is not, then support them with your funds, with what you can and be knowledgeable so you can at least vote in a way that is knowledgeable of the consequences. 

There are many times I see "activism", and I cringe, because the message being sent has nothing to do with what the majority of the people the activists are representing really want, and therefore backfires with more resistance from the opposition. 

There are more than one way to be an "activist", just supporting BBM so that more of these movies are made is just one small way, and maybe not so small from the looks of things.  Just being your conscious loving self does way more to change minds than all the drum beating shouting "ho ho we are homosexuals, so and so has got to go" ever will.

Of course, these are just my humble options, others may disagree. 

Doug
Reality contains no contradictions, for how can something be and not be at the same time? Visit Us on the NON-BELIEVERS Thread.

Offline Vic

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Re: Non believers who love Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #125 on: July 02, 2006, 12:53:50 AM »
Now, a question for Doug and Vic. If you believe there is nothing afterwards do you also believe that
no one should choose an easy life? Is it our moral obligation to become activists against societal wrongs and injustices because if we don't do it no God will and we only have one shot to do something? 
Yes.

I had the feeling Doug would give you the longer answer. :)
And he is right. A simple yes is too simple.

And I'm not sure about moral obligation. Sounds like something others want from you. Sounds like something a priest or politician would say!  :-\

You need to decide for yourself how and at what level you want to get involved, if at all. Personal situations differ. It's different for everyone. For me it's a Yes because it has to do with my upbringing and character. But that's me, it may not be you.

But it's also a No. I don't do things because I'm worried or concerned about an afterlife. I don't believe in one so why should I base my life on something I don't believe in either way?

My decisions have made my life difficult on many occasions, true. I do things because I believe they're the right thing to do, and deciding what to do can be difficult enough. And often enough I question my decisions because life would have been easier if I had decided otherwise.

I do believe however that you should get the best out of the life you have been given, that you make it the best you can in terms of personal growth and development without hurting others in the process. Some people turn out to be Jezus, others Hitler. I don't want to be either. I'll pass unknown like all those other billions of humans before me and that would be fine by me. As long as I have the feeling I have made some little differences for the better here and there, I'm okay with that.

Vic
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Offline jasonwv

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Re: Non believers who love Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #126 on: July 02, 2006, 09:20:51 AM »
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I do believe however that you should get the best out of the life you have been given, that you make it the best you can in terms of personal growth and development without hurting others in the process. Some people turn out to be Jezus, others Hitler. I don't want to be either. I'll pass unknown like all those other billions of humans before me and that would be fine by me. As long as I have the feeling I have made some little differences for the better here and there, I'm okay with that.



Good Morning Doug and Vic!  I want to say that I agree with the above statement. The world would be so much better if we just concentrated on making our lives the best it can be. With religion it seems people want to make the world and the lives of others into whatever vision they think their God wants. And that causes so many problems. As Voltaire said, if we could only stick to cultivating our own gardens, the world would look more like the "kingdom of heaven" the religious are always talking about.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2006, 10:25:23 AM by jasonwv »
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Offline Vic

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Re: Non believers who love Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #127 on: July 02, 2006, 05:10:11 PM »
Hey Doug,

I said I would come back to my original post, so okay.

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I live way out in the boonies, so I had to wait for BBM to be on satellite before I could see it.  Here, none of the movies that would be interesting to see are ever allowed to be displayed.  I am still waiting to see Fahrenheit 911, someday.

Got broadband?

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While the more religious go on and on about how wonderful Jacks love is and how this is a story about love conquers all.  I do not see it that way, I see it as more of a story about how to waste your life trying to change someone else, instead of changing yourself.  Wasting your life denying the reality in front of you, because you would rather believe in a fairy tail.

Agreed. Love may conquer all but it also fails all attempts to conquer it. If you don't do something at one point it will destroy you.

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I guess the problem I have with that is that religion in ethical dilemmas can not decide based upon reality, it has to decide on tradition set forth by authority.  It also has to decide based upon interpretation, rather than knowledge, which leaves a whole lot of room for manipulation.

Islam is all about interpretation. If Mohammed, or Jezus for that matter, would have known how much killing and suffering would be done in their name, would they still have chosen the path they took? I doubt it!

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If I remember correctly, was it not 5 million suspected gay people also put to death at that same time?  They with the pink triangle...  one does not ever hear much about them, the jewish gays...

It wasn't just the Jewish gays, it was ALL gays. And gypsies, and the Down Syndromes, etc. Hitler was half Jewish, by the way, and one of his major arm suppliers was Jewish (one of the richest men in the country, Adolf NEEDED him and protected him).

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Exactly, and people forget that the religion we see today did not exist until Billy Graham started it.  Before that religion was more or less a private thing, even the founding fathers stated that religion was between the man and his god.

And so it should be always.

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Though I have to admit to having no gaydar at all, a talent I really wished I could acquire.

Mine is notorious for failing me. Must be the battery or something. :)

More to come..

 8)
Vic
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Offline Vic

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Re: Non believers who love Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #128 on: July 02, 2006, 05:14:38 PM »
By the way, although is thread is called Non Believers... I am not a non-believer, I believe in a great many things, just not organized religion.

Vic
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Offline Doug2017

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Re: Non believers who love Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #129 on: July 02, 2006, 08:05:56 PM »
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Got broadband?

Yes, I do.  DSL, our local phone company has done wonders in this area.

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Islam is all about interpretation. If Mohammed, or Jezus for that matter, would have known how much killing and suffering would be done in their name, would they still have chosen the path they took? I doubt it!

I do not know.  I know absolutely nothing about Mohammed, other than what I have heard, that says he was insane.  Also from what I have read, Jesus never existed as a god, only very little evidence exists that he might have been a compilation of many men.

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If I remember correctly, was it not 5 million suspected gay people also put to death at that same time?  They with the pink triangle...  one does not ever hear much about them, the jewish gays...

It wasn't just the Jewish gays, it was ALL gays. And gypsies, and the Down Syndromes, etc. Hitler was half Jewish, by the way, and one of his major arm suppliers was Jewish (one of the richest men in the country, Adolf NEEDED him and protected him).

I thought that was the case, but I knew for sure it was at least the jewish gays, could not remember for sure on the rest.

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Exactly, and people forget that the religion we see today did not exist until Billy Graham started it.  Before that religion was more or less a private thing, even the founding fathers stated that religion was between the man and his god.

And so it should be always.

Should be, but isn't any more.

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Though I have to admit to having no gaydar at all, a talent I really wished I could acquire.

Mine is notorious for failing me. Must be the battery or something. :)

ROTFL!
I used to have a couple of friends had excellent gaydar, so would employ them at times.  LOL!

I used to get so mad at them, they would tell me that so and so, or that guy was interested and I never knew, man I wished I'd known. Oh well, we have to work with what we got.

Doug
Reality contains no contradictions, for how can something be and not be at the same time? Visit Us on the NON-BELIEVERS Thread.

Offline Doug2017

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Re: Non believers who love Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #130 on: July 02, 2006, 08:15:51 PM »
By the way, although is thread is called Non Believers... I am not a non-believer, I believe in a great many things, just not organized religion.

Vic


I see. 

Yeah, I struggled for a title to this thread.  Atheists Who Love Brokeback Mountain seemed a little too limiting, seems Non-believers is too limited as well, but I settled for Non-Believers.

I believe in a great many things as well, but nothing with a consciousness disconnected from a functioning physical brain. Nothing paranormal. Other than that... <grin>

Doug
Reality contains no contradictions, for how can something be and not be at the same time? Visit Us on the NON-BELIEVERS Thread.

Offline Doug2017

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Re: Non believers who love Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #131 on: July 02, 2006, 08:41:44 PM »
I was thinking about being an activist while I was milking this evening.

When I was in college, a friend of mine and I joined a newly formed group.  We called ourselves the "Gay Rap Group".  We got together once or twice a month to discuss current events, to lend support to each other, and to just have a few laughs.  One of the things we did was create "The Gay Rap Line", a single phone number wired into 5 different houses, one was mine.  We took turns answering the phone 24/7.  There was a few who came out by calling, a few travelers who wanted to know about the gay life in our small town, one that called to say they was going to kill himself, and many, many religious nuts who called to threaten our lives, or call names. Some of those calls still haunt me to this day.  At that same time I had a straight housemate.  He had at least 2 to 3 different women in his room every week. The screamers I really hated...  Oh, he is a minister now... LOL!   In my room I printed the The Gay Rap Newsletter, a couple of the others wrote the stories, I printed it.  My straight housemate never ever suspected. 

I then moved to Denver. Met other people, and we created another small group whose purpose it was to get a gay pride parade in Denver.  There was 5 of us, we got the bars to let us have special dances, which we got part of the income, I created the logos, we had them printed on t-shirts, and buttons and sold them.  And with donations from the gay businesses, and individual persons, we got the permit to have a "march" down Colfax to the civic center for a quick speach, then on down to the Fox Hole bar where we set up booths for the vendors to sell their wares.  After the second year, we where kicked out by another group who had better support.  That ended my involvement with the community. 

Was I an activist?  No, not in my thinking, if someone would have told me that, I would have denied it, it would have probably scared the dickens out of me. To me I was just helping, doing something that needed to be done.

Point?  Do what you think needs to be done, and you will be an activist without trying.

Doug
Reality contains no contradictions, for how can something be and not be at the same time? Visit Us on the NON-BELIEVERS Thread.

Offline Vic

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Re: Non believers who love Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #132 on: July 03, 2006, 02:18:53 AM »
Yeah, I struggled for a title to this thread.  Atheists Who Love Brokeback Mountain seemed a little too limiting, seems Non-believers is too limited as well, but I settled for Non-Believers.

Non-Believers is perfectly fine. The implied reference is clear.

I tend to pick and choose from all sorts of beliefs, as long as it rings true (to me). Which is what I liked about your objective and subjective realities. It's how you see the world from your own eyes, your own experience, background, etc.

I'm more of a Gaian than anything else, I suppose. The power of nature.

Vic
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Offline Doug2017

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Re: Non believers who love Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #133 on: July 03, 2006, 07:31:01 AM »
Yeah, I struggled for a title to this thread.  Atheists Who Love Brokeback Mountain seemed a little too limiting, seems Non-believers is too limited as well, but I settled for Non-Believers.

Non-Believers is perfectly fine. The implied reference is clear.

I tend to pick and choose from all sorts of beliefs, as long as it rings true (to me). Which is what I liked about your objective and subjective realities. It's how you see the world from your own eyes, your own experience, background, etc.

I'm more of a Gaian than anything else, I suppose. The power of nature.

Vic


Understand that, if I was to call something a god it would be nature, but that would be a god without a consciousness, not even close to what the average person is calling god.

I am a firm believer in the power of the mind.  That the mind/body connection is many times stronger than most believe, especially the medical community.

Love your photo captions this morning! 

Doug
Reality contains no contradictions, for how can something be and not be at the same time? Visit Us on the NON-BELIEVERS Thread.

Offline Vic

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Re: Non believers who love Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #134 on: July 03, 2006, 08:12:45 AM »
Understand that, if I was to call something a god it would be nature, but that would be a god without a consciousness, not even close to what the average person is calling god.

Yes, Gaia's consciousness, if she has any that we can define, would run in aeons, but I believe in that. S/he can see the long term, we're too short-lived to be aware of anything but our own puny little selves and our little petty concerns.

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I am a firm believer in the power of the mind.  That the mind/body connection is many times stronger than most believe, especially the medical community.

Considering Western medicine is only about 200 years old, absolutely! Coming back to Christian/Judeo manipulation. The whole Inquisition was based on the strategy to remove all old knowledge from Europe, by declaring and prosecuting anyone with that knowledge as heretics, witches, etc. It is then that the RC brought "the Devil and his cohorts" into play. Needless to say, it worked extremely well. For sure, if I had lived then, I would have been burned at the stake.

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Love your photo captions this morning!

Thanks!

Vic
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