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Author Topic: Non believers who love Brokeback Mountain  (Read 392035 times)

sactopete

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Re: Non believers who love Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #90 on: June 20, 2006, 12:30:11 PM »
 ;D  We are having the same conversation over in a thread about re-writng the movie.

Thanks Lola, I'll check out that thread.  Personally, I'm not looking to remake the film.  It is what it is, and I enjoy a good tragedy at times, and BBM certainly is that.  I just wish that by now the "big gay film" was something else.

Offline quijote

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Re: Non believers who love Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #91 on: June 23, 2006, 03:06:30 PM »
Just wanted to say that this has been a wonderful conversation.  It's always great to listen to what others have to say and why they say it, especially when how they say it is so thoughtful and respectful.

My final thought on this is that while you, Doug, aren't happy with the idea that this movie might have been intended for us straights because your community already gets that gay love is good love, I would like to suggest that this movie was not just for us straights or the religious.  This movie was for human beings.  Its message was taken in by each of us depending on where we are and depending on the condition of our souls.

Consider that maybe the compassion and justice I was talking about was a personal experience that was needed by you non-straight humans, too.  I believe you need as much as we do to find that kind place in your own hearts for yourselves.  This movie was intended to help you, as well as me, find a little mercy and love -- for ourselves.  Tragedy ignores division and heads straight to the ties that bind us all; that's why we all were able to find a little tenderness for our cowardly, weak, guilt-ridden, puny little selves.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2006, 03:51:01 PM by quijote »

Offline Doug2017

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Re: Non believers who love Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #92 on: June 24, 2006, 12:11:10 AM »
Just wanted to say that this has been a wonderful conversation.  It's always great to listen to what others have to say and why they say it, especially when how they say it is so thoughtful and respectful.

Thank You, I do try hard...  As time passes I am becoming more at ease with this movie.  I spent the day reading the captions thread, I must say it was wonderful!  I REALLY needed a good laugh or two.   I truly think this world is way too devoid of laughter, of good clean fun, and good feelings.  That is one of the major things I miss from times before, I used to laugh a lot, and often, now it has been years since I laughed as hard as I did today.

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My final thought on this is that while you, Doug, aren't happy with the idea that this movie might have been intended for us straights because your community already gets that gay love is good love, I would like to suggest that this movie was not just for us straights or the religious.  This movie was for human beings. 


It was? Perhaps...  I am open to that possibility...  All I know is this movie had a profound impact on me, I am not sure if it is good or bad, yet.  Jack and Ennis are on my mind nearly 24-7, they are the last thought of the day, and the first the next morning. When they are not there, my old past comes to haunt me like a movie playing, I find myself reliving this or that event things I have not thought of for years. I am not sure why this is happening, it is annoying to say the least.   I know that I want to find others to talk to, before I was happy doing my thing.  I had my plans figured out and was on my path.  This movie has been disastrous to the work I was doing before the movie, I can not concentrate long enough to even get started again.  Hopefully, that will pass soon.  At least that absolute rage, the severe crying, I had on day one and two is just about under control again.  It is slowly becoming just a movie, just a couple of actors and not a loss of two of my very best friends, or past loves, or possibilities lost, or guilt, or damnation by others, or whatever it was that was so triggered. 

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Its message was taken in by each of us depending on where we are and depending on the condition of our souls.


Or was it a message taken in depending on our past experience, our personality, and outlook? For a soulless infidel, this hit awefully hard. 

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Consider that maybe the compassion and justice I was talking about was a personal experience that was needed by you non-straight humans, too.  I believe you need as much as we do to find that kind place in your own hearts for yourselves.  This movie was intended to help you, as well as me, find a little mercy and love -- for ourselves.  Tragedy ignores division and heads straight to the ties that bind us all; that's why we all were able to find a little tenderness for our cowardly, weak, guilt-ridden, puny little selves.

Of course, us non-straight humans need compassion and justice, I just do not see being beat to death with a tire iron as compassion or justice, I do not see that leaving poor Ennis to suffer for the rest of his life to be either compassion or justice either.  Yes, this movie leaves one absolutely craving, crying, pleading for compassion, justice, mercy and love, which is not the same. Actually finding it is the hard part.

If what I read about what Annie wanted, then the movie personal, they intended to hurt us so bad we had to reach out of our self imposed prisons to get some relief, shock treatment... it works, because I am here, but at what price I have to wonder? And what happens to these people when they figure out that it is just as sad as they had remembered?

Yes, it was done out of love, and good intent, and it very well may prove to be the very thing I need, I just do not know yet. I am very much in a absolute love/hate relationship with this movie, which makes it more like a drug, the more I get the more I want. I actually love Jack and Ennis, and I want so much to protect them from the pain, the funny thing is, is that no matter what I think of for them to say, what endings I create for them, what love I see them having, the movie always ends the same.  Such extreme hopelessness, and sadness.  I would not blame Ennis if he killed himself at some point, for what does he have to live, especially if he believes Jack is waiting for him someplace?   
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Offline quijote

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Re: Non believers who love Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #93 on: June 24, 2006, 07:53:52 PM »
Doug, you and I live on different planets.  That's ok.

That being said, the same laws of physics rule us both.  Have you seen the May/June issue of Skeptical Inquirer?  I read an article entitled, "Is Physics Turning into Philosophy?" and I couldn't help but think of you.  The article's author discusses the repercussions of the fact that "heavyweight physicists" claim "to have proven the existence of parallel universes 'even though there is no chance of observing them.'"

Here are some tasty morsels:

"currently fashionable ideas in physics and cosmology, such as multi-verses or string theories, are characteristic of a discipline where 'faith in theory tends to trump evidence.' Take string theory, for example:   it is a mathematically beautiful construct that has the potential of unifying general relativity and quantum mechanics.  The problem is that -- at the moment -- it also is entirely untestable empirically, which makes it an interesting philosophical position but not science." 

Also:

"...it may very well be the case that we will never find a way to test the idea that there are multiple universes out there.  Just because we are curious animals, there is no guarantee that nature behaves in a way that allows us the possibility to get answers to any mystery we are intrigued by."

Finally:

"Strings and multiple universes are certainly logical possibilities, since they are features of mathematical theories (assuming that math doesn't contain mistakes).  What we don't know is whether they are also empirically possible and, if so, whether they have in fact been realized.  It is the search for an answer to the latter two questions that distinguishes science from logic/mathematics (and philosophy).  Yet, neither string theory nor the possibility of multiverses have yet crossed the conceptual line separating logical from empirical possiblity.  if we pretend that such a line is irrelevant to scientific practice, we risk turning physics into an exercise in faith...."


How do these representative samples of the article speak to you, soulless infidel?

Offline Doug2017

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Re: Non believers who love Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #94 on: June 25, 2006, 11:34:19 AM »
Doug, you and I live on different planets.  That's ok.

In understanding yes.  However, I seem to have to endure living on the same planet when it comes to others making laws, rules and social pressures to ensure their belief systems...  That being said, I am now coming to the conclusion that perhaps I put way too much stock into what other people think, or the actual dangers therein.  If I suddenly disappear, figure I got tire ironed... 

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That being said, the same laws of physics rule us both. 
 

They do?  The laws of physics says that objective reality is absolute,  yet I see so many that deny that and create their own little versions. The laws of physics says that contradiction is not possible since it requires something to exist and not exist at the same time, yet the vast majoirity insist that contradiction is nomal and even necessary.  The laws of physics says that the mental map of reality in our head is not the same as the actual objective reality, yet the vast majority do not have a clue of that difference.  The laws of physics says that because someone believes something that it is real, does not make it real.  The laws of physics says that the universe is mass and energy and all things flow from cause and effect from that, yet many insist that the effect come first, or that something has no cause, or god is the cause.  Yes, the same laws applies to us, it is just that most deny those laws and create an illusion to justify their contradictions, and beliefs.

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Have you seen the May/June issue of Skeptical Inquirer?  I read an article entitled, "Is Physics Turning into Philosophy?" and I couldn't help but think of you.  The article's author discusses the repercussions of the fact that "heavyweight physicists" claim "to have proven the existence of parallel universes 'even though there is no chance of observing them.'"

No I have not seen the Skeptical Inquirer for some time, do not have time to read much these days.  But I must ask, how does one "have proven" something without the prerequisite scientific observation?   Yes, physics at it outer fringes is always going to be nearly philosophy, where the data and theory ends and the speculation begins.

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Here are some tasty morsels:

"currently fashionable ideas in physics and cosmology, such as multi-verses or string theories, are characteristic of a discipline where 'faith in theory tends to trump evidence.' Take string theory, for example:   it is a mathematically beautiful construct that has the potential of unifying general relativity and quantum mechanics.  The problem is that -- at the moment -- it also is entirely untestable empirically, which makes it an interesting philosophical position but not science." 

This is an absolutely true statement.  String "theory" is not theory at all, not science either, but a unprovable hypothesis of how to combine the theory of large objects and the theory of extremely small things.  Where these two theories meet conflict, therefore the efforts of a mathematical construct.  Just because the numbers are needed to make it work does not mean that is how it actually works.  Someday, a simple elegant thought will combine these two theories and string theory will be history, IMHO.

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Also:

"...it may very well be the case that we will never find a way to test the idea that there are multiple universes out there.  Just because we are curious animals, there is no guarantee that nature behaves in a way that allows us the possibility to get answers to any mystery we are intrigued by."

Yep.  At this point there are limits to what we know, what we can do, and what we can test for.  However, that does not mean that the things we do know, can do, and test for is not valid.  The laws of physics and chemistry at the everyday level are rock solid.  It always amazes me that just because the nitty gritty is not understood, that somehow that invalidates the everyday.  That is like saying that because one does not understand the nitty gritty of fuel injection that driving the car to get the kids is invalid. 

Of course, using the same analogy, the religious would say that god makes the car go, they always substitute god for anything unknown, and that does not invalidate driving it to get the kids, which is true if they would stop there, but no, they always have to make others sacrifice to appease their god, fearing that someone, somewhere, doing something, will make their car not run.

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Finally:

"Strings and multiple universes are certainly logical possibilities, since they are features of mathematical theories (assuming that math doesn't contain mistakes).  What we don't know is whether they are also empirically possible and, if so, whether they have in fact been realized.  It is the search for an answer to the latter two questions that distinguishes science from logic/mathematics (and philosophy). 

Exactly, note they are not saying it is factual, just a mathematical indicated possiblility. There is nothing wrong in searching for answers, that is how knowledge grows.

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Yet, neither string theory nor the possibility of multiverses have yet crossed the conceptual line separating logical from empirical possiblity.  if we pretend that such a line is irrelevant to scientific practice, we risk turning physics into an exercise in faith...."


Yep, exactly.  The difference is when that line is crossed it is no longer valid as fact, it is just speculation, faith/belief to accept as reality, which does not make it reality.  Then to create massive followings, official interpreters, and to make laws, rules and social pressures to force others to adhere is religion.


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How do these representative samples of the article speak to you, soulless infidel?

They speak the truth, the reality, the how it is. You?

 Here is a couple of Bible verses I would like the same respect and answers, your interpretation,  I have given you above, please.

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household." (Matthew 10:34-37)

To me this is the definition of evil. 

"Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones." (Psalms 137:9, KJV)

Any god that suggests such a thing to me is evil, and not worthy of worship.  What do you think? 

"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:26)

Since I do not hate my father, mother, brethen, sisters or my own life I do not feel I can be a disciple or follower.  You?

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." (Isaiah 45:7)

Does not this passage answer the question of why natural evil exists?  If a god creates a flood that kills all in it's wake, just and unjust alike, is he someone worthy of worship? 

"Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles; Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up: Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong." (Joel 3:9-10)

I know about the peace loving passages that are always quoted giving the impression that there is no other side of god/jesus, how come we never hear of these?  Does this not justify making weapons, making war? Speaking of war...

"The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name." (Exodus 15:3)

How does one expect peace on earth when the god worshipped is a war god?  Would not a follower president then strive to be a war president?

From your words I do not think you believe these passages are true, yet how do you dismiss these and accept others? Which are truth and which are not, why?  When one takes on the name "Christian" does he/she not implicitly accept these passages as well as the rest? 

Believe it or not, I do enjoy being challenged on my thoughts, it makes me be honest and to know what I am thinking.  Thanks for being gentle and kind about it.

Take Care.
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Offline Doug2017

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Re: Non believers who love Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #95 on: June 28, 2006, 06:52:17 PM »
Here is something like what I thought BBM would have been.
Everything the same up to the kitchen scene with Ennis and Alma.


Alma: Ennis, do you know a Jack?
Ennis: Why?
Alma: A post card came for you today, looks interesting.


Alma: Did you cowboy with him or something?
Ennis: Him and me herded sheep one summer, and did a little fishing. He is a good fishing buddy.

Card Reads: "Friend this letter is long over due. I rented the old Nelson Ranch,
and I am in desperate need of a good ranch hand. Drop me line if you would be interested.  Jack"






"Good to have you aboard.  I will be driving in from Lightening Flats on the 24th,
will meet you at the ranch to discuss terms. I may be late, please make yourself at home
if you get there before me. Jack"


Ennis arrives early just to make sure he does not miss Jack.


He waits impatiently, having a cigarette and a beer he found in the fridge.


Bored, and looking around, Ennis finds Jack's Bloody shirt and his hidden inside.
Ennis suddenly realizes that Jack cares even more than he had thought.


As a symbolic gift to Jack, Ennis puts his shirt over Jacks, and returns it to where he found it.
Ennis (thinking): When Jack finds this, he will know that I know, and what I think about it.


Ennis hears and then sees Jack pulling up to the bunk house.






Jack Fucking Twist!




Jack: Son of a bitch.








Ennis (whispering): Let's go upstairs.




Jack:  I have been thinking about you.


Ennis begins work on the little cow/calf operation, which he enjoys very much.
The pay is good, and the hours are excellent.


Ennis: Alma, the boss needs me at the ranch, we have heifers that have begun to calf.
Please take the girls.
Alma: But you was going to watch the kids, I have 3 hours before my shift is over.


Ennis: I have to be there when the cows calf, that is my job.
Alma: What about my job?
Ok, I will see if my sister can watch them.


Ennis: Ok, see you in a couple of days.




Alma: I am so sorry, Monroe, I will make it up to you.


Ennis: Jack, this is my wife Alma. Alma this is my new boss, Jack.
Alma: Nice to meet you.
Jack: Same here.  You got kids? 
Ennis: Yeah, two girls, Alma Jr and Jenny.
Jack: I have one, a boy, smiles a lot, married the cutest little gal in Childress.


Ennis takes care of the herd, the quiet outdoors reminds him of the times in the mountains.
Of course, Jack is around as well.


Alma tearfully tells Ennis that her and Monroe have taken up, and she is now pregnant.




Judge: Del Mar divorce granted this 6th day of November, 1975.


Ennis (thinking): The cows sure look good this year.


Jack: I sure am glad that 5 day cattle roundup is done, what a long few days.
Ennis: I will take the horses back to the ranch, and will meet you there.


Ennis: Jack, before you go, I have something I need to talk about.


Alma is taking the girls away.  They are moving to North Carolina.


I may never get to see them again.


I can not loose them, how can I live without them?  Jack...


Jack: It will be alright, it will be alright.


Ennis: Jack, this was a good idea to get out here again for a time.
Jack: With all you are going through,
I thought it might be a way to get your mind off of it.


I am not sure what I would do if Lureen tried to take Bobby away.
I sure feel for you. 


Jack (teasing): So, you have not found anyone in all this time to marry?


Naw, but you would not believe this little gal in the bar the other night,
I had to put the blocks on that one.


Jack: Yeah, know what you mean, I was accused of sneaking off with the foremans wife a couple of times.
Thought for sure I was going to get shot or something either by her husband or Lureen.
Ennis (evil grin glowing): You probably deserved it. 




A couple years later Alma Jr shows up, all growed up.


Alma Jr: I am getting married.  I was hoping you could come.
Ennis: Well, I think I have to be down at the roundup about that time.


Ennis: Well, guess we'll just have to get another cowboy.
My little girl getting married, now that is not something that happens every day.


Alma Jr: Thanks, Daddy. 



Ennis: Jack, I am getting tired of driving in every day, and driving back to my trailer every night.
What do you think about me moving to the ranch?
Jack (teasing): Well, I do not know...
(suddenly serious) What about your tire iron story? Have you changed your mind?
Ennis: I have thought and thought about that, and I have come to the conclusion
there are things worse than death, like living on without you.


Jack remembers the first time he wanted Ennis to move in with him...


Ennis: Alma Jr is getting married November 7th. 
Jack (teasing): You know what that means don't you?
Ennis: What Jack?
Jack: Well, soon you will be a wrinkled old ass grandpa...
Ennis: If I am a grandpa, what does that make you?
Jack: A wrinkled old grandma? haha
Ennis: Jack, that is real smart.  Next I know you will
have your hair in a bun, wearing high heels and a pink
flowered dress.  Jack fucking twist, really thinking there...
Jack, I swear...










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Offline Jer009

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Re: Non believers who love Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #96 on: June 30, 2006, 01:23:18 AM »
Doug2017, the whole sequence above--screencaps, dialog--just fucking BRILLIANT! Thanks for that warm glow in my heart! (I wish it could really be that way. Sigh...)

Offline Vic

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Re: Non believers who love Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #97 on: June 30, 2006, 04:45:19 AM »
Hey Doug2017,

interesting thread you started here.

Noticed your action over at the Photo Captioning and thought "here's a guy whose thoughts I like!" so I had to ferret you out a bit. Not much surprise you'd be hosting a thread like this.

I've been an absolute atheist since I was about 8 and there's been nothing since that has changed my mind. If anything, life has only strengthened my belief on that.

Anyway, read through the whole thread, and made lots of quotes. I won't post them all, with my own thoughts, in one go. Wouldn't want to "inflict" that on anyone. Suffice to say, I'll be around.

Vic

Btw. The above story would mirror my own idea about a happy ending, with some differences, of course. Well done!

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Offline jasonwv

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Re: Non believers who love Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #98 on: June 30, 2006, 05:30:46 AM »
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Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household


Hi Doug! I love your thread. In regards to the above quote. Does it make more sense to you if you think Of Jesus as a revolutionary who wanted to overthrow Roman authority? That would have really been at odds with the Jewish authority at the time. So maybe he's talking about breaking away from the status quo which would put one at odds with their community and family. I know when I read that quote now the first thing  I think about is our war on terrorism and how that quote above is something I can picture a radical Islamist saying.
It's that take no prisoners in the war against the infidel because God is on our side attitude. Pretty scary.
There never was a good war or a bad peace-
Ben Franklin

Offline Doug2017

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Re: Non believers who love Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #99 on: June 30, 2006, 09:11:30 AM »
Doug2017, the whole sequence above--screencaps, dialog--just fucking BRILLIANT! Thanks for that warm glow in my heart! (I wish it could really be that way. Sigh...)

Hi Jer009,

Welcome!

I do not know how brilliant it is, but I needed to come up with another way, I needed to see if the fear of Ennis could not have been more subdued by the loving Jack, and yet, Jack gets more of what he needs from Ennis.

Then there is the kissing scene and Alma, no Ennis I have ever met would make that mistake, no matter how hot he was to see his Jack, so while it was dramatic, it is not something that likely to happen in the real world, so I wanted to change that in my version of the story.  Also, Ennis taking up with Cassie seems really far fetched to me, from the original book, it seemed obvious to me that they where teasing each other, so changed it to a teasing scene. I also see Ennis as an extremely loving and giving father, so it seemed natural that as many divorces go with gay fathers, the mother takes the kids away, even if that is not by malice, but with moving on to a new place in the world.

I found it strange that Jack did not see that Ennis will/had to work for anyone so desperate he was for income, the only thing he knew will was cowboying, the very same area that Jack wanted to be in, they both dreamed of a ranch, just not together in Ennis's mind.  It just seemed natural to me that Jack would find a small ranch, rent it, so there was no big outlay of commitment in case Ennis totally refused to work for him. I know ranches get rented out all the time, hell I rent mine out.

When I get a little down now, I can come back here and read that story again and feel better about what Jack and Ennis have together.

Yeah, I wished the story could have been different, but as it is, it has a terrible need for justice, a need for love to win, therefore getting us to create this forum for us to interact, that is worth the pain, I guess.  Some even have found love here, that is fantastic!

I am just now starting to get that, probably because I created my own version so I could see the more positive of the original.

Or I am just nuts... LOL!! 
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Offline Doug2017

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Re: Non believers who love Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #100 on: June 30, 2006, 09:40:17 AM »
Hey Doug2017,

interesting thread you started here.

Thank You! and Welcome!

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Noticed your action over at the Photo Captioning and thought "here's a guy whose thoughts I like!" so I had to ferret you out a bit. Not much surprise you'd be hosting a thread like this.

I have enjoyed your captions as well.  Not much surprise huh? What gave me away? LOL! 

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I've been an absolute atheist since I was about 8 and there's been nothing since that has changed my mind. If anything, life has only strengthened my belief on that.

Please tell me more!  What happened at about 8 that got you out of the illusion that ensnares so many, or did it just not make sense to you?     

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Anyway, read through the whole thread, and made lots of quotes. I won't post them all, with my own thoughts, in one go. Wouldn't want to "inflict" that on anyone. Suffice to say, I'll be around.

Oh, oh, I am in trouble now. LOL!  Please remember that this movie really hit me, so my thoughts were all over the place for a time.

I REALLY look forward to talking to you.  Seems there is far too little representation of atheists in the world.  Gay ones... forget it... Which is really odd to me, seeing how embracing that which wishes to destroy you seems more like suicide to me.

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Vic

Btw. The above story would mirror my own idea about a happy ending, with some differences, of course. Well done!

Thank you.  If you get some time I would like to hear about the differences, and your thoughts about them.  I questioned in mine where Ennis decides to move to the ranch, but the photos were just so good. 

I knew a few couples of guys that maintained two complete households, one would come "visit" the other once or twice a week. At gay get togethers they identified as a couple.  They said it was easier to keep their love on track, because they each then had their own space, their own stuff, and it kept questions down to a minimum.  I can see Ennis living in his own trailer, and Jack at the ranch, and each coming and staying with the other when they needed some share time, with the excuse, should someone ask, "he is my boss, we needed to go over a few things and it got late", etc.  I can see them still camping together in their beloved Brokeback Mountains as well.

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Offline Doug2017

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Re: Non believers who love Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #101 on: June 30, 2006, 10:11:55 AM »
Quote
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household


Hi Doug! I love your thread.

Hi Jason, Welcome!  Thank You, I appreciate the kind words.

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In regards to the above quote. Does it make more sense to you if you think Of Jesus as a revolutionary who wanted to overthrow Roman authority? That would have really been at odds with the Jewish authority at the time. So maybe he's talking about breaking away from the status quo which would put one at odds with their community and family.

Jason, you are the first! The first to actually take time to think, and write it out in a well thought out answer.

Yes, that very well might be what this passage means.  Yet, that is not what is meant when the main stream talk about Jesus.  They show him as an ever loving, ever giving, ever knowing and ever powerful god. One that needs to be loved, yet feared.  Yet, that flies in the face of this passage.  Where here, if you are right, he is a revolutionary telling the people this could get a little messy, please hold on to your hat.  A great man to be sure, if he existed, but not a god.  IMHO.   

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I know when I read that quote now the first thing  I think about is our war on terrorism and how that quote above is something I can picture a radical Islamist saying.  It's that take no prisoners in the war against the infidel because God is on our side attitude. Pretty scary.

Exactly! Man, you stated that with the precision of a surgeon.  I can not see one wit of difference between the radical Islamist and the radical Christian, they are both pure evil.  They both have no problem sacrificing innocent human lives to ensure their strangle hold on the masses.  Damn scary if you ask me. 

Even more scary to me, I saw a television documentary the other day where they were talking to radical Christians.  These people are actively working towards Armageddon, they WANT the end time wars thinking that God is coming for them soon after.  They WANT the blood bath between them and all others they dislike.  I really see that as an underlying thread through out the wars on terriorism, on drugs, and the general war on rational thought.  When we accepted the "first strike" premise, coupled with "righteousness", it is all on that trail to that ending.  We had better wake up soon, or it will be too late.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2006, 10:31:26 AM by Doug2017 »
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Offline mountain boy

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Re: Non believers who love Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #102 on: June 30, 2006, 11:27:18 AM »


Alma Jr: Thanks, Daddy.  Uncle Jack already promised he'd be there too!!

Thanks Doug!!     :) :'( :)

Offline jasonwv

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Re: Non believers who love Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #103 on: June 30, 2006, 12:16:07 PM »
Quote
Exactly! Man, you stated that with the precision of a surgeon.  I can not see one wit of difference between the radical Islamist and the radical Christian, they are both pure evil.  They both have no problem sacrificing innocent human lives to ensure their strangle hold on the masses.  Damn scary if you ask me. 

Even more scary to me, I saw a television documentary the other day where they were talking to radical Christians.  These people are actively working towards Armageddon, they WANT the end time wars thinking that God is coming for them soon after.  They WANT the blood bath between them and all others they dislike.  I really see that as an underlying thread through out the wars on terriorism, on drugs, and the general war on rational thought.  When we accepted the "first strike" premise, coupled with "righteousness", it is all on that trail to that ending.  We had better wake up soon, or it will be too late.



And here is another parallel. Most people think of Judas Iscariot as a demon who betrayed Christ. But if you look at Jesus and his disciples as revolutionaries bent on overthrowing Rome in the name of God, he doesn't come off so bad. Jesus tells him to go to what he must do. So, it's my opinion that the whole thing was planned by Jesus & Judas in hopes that the arrest of the popular rabbi would rouse the oppressed against the oppressor. Maybe Jesus never really planned to die or thought the Romans would not carry out his execution for fear of what the Jewish population would do. But they underestimated Pontius Pilate one of the most brutal executioners Rome had at the time. Perhaps that explains the quote"My god why have you forsaken me."?
  Anyway, Bin laden released a video today praising Al zarqwai, even though it is my understanding, they never really liked each other. But only the cause is important to zealots and Laden is praising him now to rally the faithful. Perhaps the disciples did the same with resurrection stories? To keep the cause going?  I'm just asking. It seems possible to me.
There never was a good war or a bad peace-
Ben Franklin

Offline Doug2017

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Re: Non believers who love Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #104 on: June 30, 2006, 12:20:18 PM »

Alma Jr: Thanks, Daddy.  Uncle Jack already promised he'd be there too!!

Thanks Doug!!     :) :'( :)

Oh, Man!  You do not know how MUCH I wanted that to be true for our heroes!

((Hugs))

Thanks WJD!  You made my day!   
Reality contains no contradictions, for how can something be and not be at the same time? Visit Us on the NON-BELIEVERS Thread.