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BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN => Scene-by-Scene => Topic started by: Melisande on January 07, 2006, 10:39:14 AM

Title: The Reunion
Post by: Melisande on January 07, 2006, 10:39:14 AM
Talk about the reunion here.
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: M. Alexander on January 08, 2006, 02:16:58 PM
I love all the little touches in this scene, starting from when Ennis is anxiously awaiting Jack's return. The story says that he's put on his best shirt for the occassion, which we can't really tell in the movie, although it's clear it's a nicer shirt than what he normally wears! All that waiting throughout the day... And then when he hears the truck outside, the little smile that crosses his face (and how many times do we get to see Ennis smile?) when he sees Jack alighting outside. He rushes out of the room, tucking in this shirt in the back. Wants to look his best!  "Jack Fuckin' Twist!" BIG SMILE. The race down the stairs and then the embrace - son of a bitch, son of a bitch. That embrace they've been waiting for - four years delayed - and WE'VE been waiting for for what seems an equally long time. So wonderful to behold. The furtive glances around to see if they've been spotted and then, fuck it, throw that sucker into the corner and kiss him like there's no tomorrow. And back at him, from Jack. Oh, my gosh... How often do we get to see real passion like this on the screen or anywhere for that matter. Do I have any regrets? Just wish it was even longer and of course, one of my big regrets: that during the course of the film we never get to hear Ennis utter his only endearment to Jack described in the story: calling him "little darlin'" Oh well, somewhere in the privacy of their moments Jack was called this, even if we don't get to hear it :D
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: Melisande on January 08, 2006, 07:25:49 PM
What M Alexander said. I guess we all want that "little darlin' ", but yes, Ennis said it sometimes, we just weren't there. And notice how the music starts up when they meet, that music that's so familiar to me now I tear up just hearing the first note.

Here's the French site that includes a clip of the reunion scene - Ennis waiting up to the look around. The way Jack looks at Ennis after they break the hug just slays me. The hug could be just hey, sonofabitch, nice to see you, but then his eyes go to Ennis' mouth and stay there and

http://www.pathedistribution.com/accueil/videos.php?start=0&IDFilm=610

 
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: ImEnnisShesJack on January 08, 2006, 07:59:27 PM
Here's the French site that includes a clip of the reunion scene - Ennis waiting up to the look around. The way Jack looks at Ennis after they break the hug just slays me. The hug could be just hey, sonofabitch, nice to see you, but then his eyes go to Ennis' mouth and stay there and

http://www.pathedistribution.com/accueil/videos.php?start=0&IDFilm=610


Damn and gone!  I've seen the movie 4x and the reunion hug I don't know how many more, but when Jack just stays orally fixated on Ennis' mouth, I lose it.  My heart is pounding every bit as fast as theirs I'll bet. lol.  That scene has chemistry and heat.  It is more than acting.  I love it that there is no "play" here.  It is all passion and pent up emotion and repressed need.  How Ennis remains clear headed enough to break apart from Jack and regain [a little] composure is beyond me.  I do love it that they're both still breathless at the top of the stairs when Ennis introduces Jack to Alma.  Love it.  She notices too.
I know what they're feeling and I find it hard to remain composed when I reunite w/ my girl after our long separations.  It's painful to be that aware of another person - their pulse, their scent, their breathing and it's worse to be apart.
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: bonnie on January 09, 2006, 03:48:42 AM
I don't have my copy I ordered of the screenplay (yet), so...
After E and J stop kissing each other, and before they climb the stairs up to the apartment,
does Ennis say something? I thought so, but it's so hard to tell.
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: peteinportland on January 09, 2006, 08:06:07 AM
He says "come here" (or "cum er") because he needs to take Jack to meet Alma.

I especially love two things about this scene:

The first is when Ennis is playing nervously with his lighter and watching out the window. Gosh, I sooo felt his nervous energy in that moment. I have been there.

I love when Jack meets Alma and says "I have a baby boy. Smiles a lot." That is in such direct contrast to what Alma is doing (or feeling) at that moment. Plus, Jack looks so cute and aw-shucks saying that line.
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: kumari on January 09, 2006, 07:39:30 PM
What I love most about this scene is that Ennis initiates it.
From the moment that he hears Jack's piece of shit truck pull into the parking lot, you can feel his anxiety and overwhelming excitement right through the screen.
It is such an emotional payoff to see Ennis completely out of control.
After all of Jack's wondering and waiting and getting shot down and humiliated in Aguirre's trailer, you can feel Jack's heart soar when he sees the truth for what it is: the man he loves loves him back.
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: Caroline on January 09, 2006, 08:09:46 PM
Kumari, good evening!!
I saw the movie again for the third time this aft... and have this to say about the reunion scene, I find myself really watching what happens with Jack/Jake... and the look on his face when Ennis has grabbed him and kissed him so unbelievably.. and is holding him by the head, oh my God... the look of almost devastation on Jack's face is so eloquent, he realizes, as you said, that "redlining all the way there" has resulted in his dreams come true, Ennis feels about him as he feels about Ennis... it is the physical confirmation for him that you see in his face that is almost too much to bear...
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: lynn on January 10, 2006, 08:27:27 AM
To follow-up on Caroline's thoughts, I was going to post my own observations on this incredible scene, but I just read something at IMDB that captures them so perfectly, I'm pasting it here. This is in answer to the question, "Did Jack know Ennis loved him?":

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0388795/board/flat/33344327

Right after Alma sees them kiss, we cut back to the end of Jack and Ennis. They are trying to stop kissing. Ennis - the person who started the kissing - is not trying to "get rid of" the feelings he is having. He moves Jack's arms down to his side, he touches him on the forehead with his lips. Basically, he says "Ok we have to pull it back together. Now. Fast." Poor Jack has just been hit by a truck. He never in a million years thought that Ennis would take the hug to the next level so intensely. Jack would have initiated that kiss had he thought Ennis would have reciprocated it. But the fact that it was Ennis who lost control. It was Ennis who's feelings exploded out in raw, uncensored reality, just makes Jack love him all the more.

This is one of only two times in the film in which Ennis is purely real. Although he looks quickly over his shoulder to make sure no one is watching. Once he feels safe enough, he let's go of every inhibition he has.

You can see it in Jack's eyes. "Thank God, I am not crazy." He is thinking. "He feels the same way about me. I know it. After all of these years, it was making me crazy to think I made all of that up, but I didn't. He just proved it to me."

They are both gay, folks. It's just the way it is. Trust me, I'm a Jack, and I've loved an Ennis.
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: evie on January 10, 2006, 12:23:48 PM
Folks: more apparant in the short story than in the movie is that on Jack's part at least, there is a whole lotta shakin goin on. I have a few theories of my own as to why Jack might be trembling from head to toe but none that I am entirely convinced about. I wonder what you all think? Here's the text:

"You got a kid?" said Jack. His shaking hand grazed Ennis's hand, electrical current snapped between them.

"Two little girls," Ennis said. "Alma Jr. and Francine. Love them to pieces." Alma's mouth twitched.

"I got a boy," said Jack. "Eight months old. Tell you what, I married a cute little old Texas girl down in Childress -- Lureen." From the vibration of the floorboard on which they both stood Ennis could feel how hard Jack was shaking.
"Alma," he said. "Jack and me is goin out and get a drink. Might not get back tonight, we get drinkin and talkin."

"Sure enough," Alma said, taking a dollar bill from her pocket. Ennis guessed she was going to ask him to get her a pack of cigarettes, bring him back sooner.

"Please to meet you," said Jack, trembling like a run-out horse.
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: lynn on January 10, 2006, 12:37:12 PM
Gee, I simply assumed it was the incredible emotional and physical excitement after that kiss.... what do you think?
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: Jack Nasty on January 10, 2006, 12:47:39 PM
Gee, I simply assumed it was the incredible emotional and physical excitement after that kiss.... what do you think?

I think I have to agree with you Lynn.Jack surely was ready to explode (as was Ennis, I'm sure) and it came out as shakes. I know I have experienced the shakes after an overwhelming physical expression of love/lust. Also, I am sure they both were ready to tear completely into one another but Ennis had to introduce Jack to Alma and then explain that he wouldn't be back that night. Jack and Ennis knew some serious lovemaking was on the way!

P.S. I love the bits from IMDb below thanks for that.
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: David on January 10, 2006, 12:50:19 PM
The first is when Ennis is playing nervously with his lighter and watching out the window. Gosh, I sooo felt his nervous energy in that moment. I have been there.

Me too.
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: aceygirl on January 10, 2006, 02:00:43 PM
Kumari, good evening!!
I saw the movie again for the third time this aft... and have this to say about the reunion scene, I find myself really watching what happens with Jack/Jake... and the look on his face when Ennis has grabbed him and kissed him so unbelievably.. and is holding him by the head, oh my God... the look of almost devastation on Jack's face is so eloquent, he realizes, as you said, that "redlining all the way there" has resulted in his dreams come true, Ennis feels about him as he feels about Ennis... it is the physical confirmation for him that you see in his face that is almost too much to bear...

This segueways to me mentioning another scene, (sorry!) but that "redlining" to this reunion makes the "redlining" Jack does later on upon learning of Ennis's divorce all the more poignant and contrasting...
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: evie on January 10, 2006, 02:15:43 PM
I guess I have never had another human being invoke that depth of emotion out of me which is why I couldn't put my finger on the whole shaking thing. (Oh no-- am I Ennis?)

I did imagine that sexual anticipation was part of it. Also perhaps weak-kneed relief. Jack must have been anxiously wondering if Ennis still felt the same after four years--after all, Ennis did not try for re-employment on Brokeback like Jack did and his parting words to Jack were not encouraging.

After four unbearable years of being apart, the reunion clearly released a lot of powerful emotions. But the fact that Annie Proulx points to Jack's visible trembling three times in quick succession caught my attention and had me wondering what more she was trying to say.

All you Jacks, be patient with us Ennises--we're not as in touch with our feelings!

Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: ImEnnisShesJack on January 10, 2006, 06:14:37 PM
I guess I have never had another human being invoke that depth of emotion out of me which is why I couldn't put my finger on the whole shaking thing. (Oh no-- am I Ennis?)

If Jack were to extend his hand at this point to shake Alma's when Ennis introduced them, it would be visibly trembling.    The electricity between Jack and Ennis would have been palpable.  The only thing the two of them are thinking about is when they can be alone together.  The physical sexual hunger pangs are incredible at this point.  They're already mentally prepared for their reunion sex and are just stumbling through the politesse necessary to get away from Alma.  The intense ache is so great you'll risk everything - like they did outside the apartment - for just one touch, one kiss, any little bit of [physical] contact. 

When you find the person who completes your soul, adds the color to your world, puts the reason into your existence, you'll know.  And you'll understand. 
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: bookgirl on January 10, 2006, 08:16:55 PM

When you find the person who completes your soul, adds the color to your world, puts the reason into your existence, you'll know.  And you'll understand. 

may we all be so lucky.  and smart enough to realize it.
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: kumari on January 10, 2006, 08:59:49 PM
Kumari, good evening!!
I saw the movie again for the third time this aft... and have this to say about the reunion scene, I find myself really watching what happens with Jack/Jake... and the look on his face when Ennis has grabbed him and kissed him so unbelievably.. and is holding him by the head, oh my God... the look of almost devastation on Jack's face is so eloquent, he realizes, as you said, that "redlining all the way there" has resulted in his dreams come true, Ennis feels about him as he feels about Ennis... it is the physical confirmation for him that you see in his face that is almost too much to bear...

I absolutely adore that look on Jack's face. He is so swept away by the feeling, and his expression is almost delerious with desire.
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: terry on January 11, 2006, 01:32:12 AM
 Kumari, I agree with you up until the time Alma sees them from the doorway.  Then my own heart nearly broke because Alma isn't a bad person and doesn't deserve to get her feelings go through a ringer.  Then again, nobody in the film deserves the pain they've experienced.
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: ImEnnisShesJack on January 11, 2006, 06:52:13 AM

When you find the person who completes your soul, adds the color to your world, puts the reason into your existence, you'll know.  And you'll understand. 

may we all be so lucky.  and smart enough to realize it.

And when it happens to you, I hope you are brave enough to take it on - regardless of the circumstances that surround it.

Love is a force of nature.
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: lauren on January 11, 2006, 12:16:55 PM


I love all the things that everyone has mentioned here. One of my favorite moments in that scene is how Jack and Ennis nuzzle one another when they're trying to break apart so Ennis can take him upstairs. Ennis presses his nose against Jack's in  affection and tenderness, as if to say that 'this is hard to do', and a promise they won't have to wait long for the motel. This feels just as passionate to me as the kissing.

I also love how in that initial hug (sonavabitch...), you can feel the heat -- they are squeezing each other as if they can't get enough. And when they pull apart, it's just barely. They still have their arms wrapped around each other. And yes, that look Jack gives Ennis' lips. He's a goner.
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: kumari on January 11, 2006, 07:26:28 PM
Kumari, I agree with you up until the time Alma sees them from the doorway.  Then my own heart nearly broke because Alma isn't a bad person and doesn't deserve to get her feelings go through a ringer.  Then again, nobody in the film deserves the pain they've experienced.

Michelle Williams is dead-on in this scene when she says, ever so quietly, "'Lo." That is the only greeting to Jack that she can muster. No one in the room is breathing, for different reasons, of course.
I feel for Alma, as another tragedy in this story.
But what makes the tension even more palpable is that she is a part of the society that rejects their love. Alma is a good person, but she is homophobic and she is repulsed by what she has seen. She looks at Jack as if he is a circus freak.
I won't speculate as to how she would feel if she were not in that unenviable position, but her venomous "Jack Nasty" comment gives us a pretty good idea.
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: ImEnnisShesJack on January 11, 2006, 08:35:02 PM
Michelle Williams is dead-on in this scene when she says, ever so quietly, "'Lo." That is the only greeting to Jack that she can muster. No one in the room is breathing, for different reasons, of course. I feel for Alma, as another tragedy in this story. But what makes the tension even more palpable is that she is a part of the society that rejects their love. Alma is a good person, but she is homophobic and she is repulsed by what she has seen. She looks at Jack as if he is a circus freak. I won't speculate as to how she would feel if she were not in that unenviable position, but her venomous "Jack Nasty" comment gives us a pretty good idea.

Given her reaction to his Bronco-bustin' story during dinner (with the reluctantly bemused smile), I think that Alma may have been looking for a reason NOT to like Ennis.  I really don't think in all of this that she ever HATED him.  She loved him.  She didn't like the Jack Twist part of his life - and really lacked the sophistication and education to be able to process and deal with that.  Since Ennis was already out of his element and comfort zone by eating dinner w/ his ex-wife and her new husband in their home, there was really no reason for Alma to go after him.  UNLESS she was looking for some way to wound him and/or justify her divorcing him.
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: sotoalf on January 11, 2006, 08:52:33 PM
Kumari, I agree with you up until the time Alma sees them from the doorway.  Then my own heart nearly broke because Alma isn't a bad person and doesn't deserve to get her feelings go through a ringer.  Then again, nobody in the film deserves the pain they've experienced.

Michelle Williams is dead-on in this scene when she says, ever so quietly, "'Lo." That is the only greeting to Jack that she can muster. No one in the room is breathing, for different reasons, of course.
I feel for Alma, as another tragedy in this story.
But what makes the tension even more palpable is that she is a part of the society that rejects their love. Alma is a good person, but she is homophobic and she is repulsed by what she has seen. She looks at Jack as if he is a circus freak.
I won't speculate as to how she would feel if she were not in that unenviable position, but her venomous "Jack Nasty" comment gives us a pretty good idea.

I agree with you re Michelle Williams' perfect response, but it's got nothing to do with "homophobia" - she just caught her husband kissing a man. Ask any straight woman on this board if she wouldn't respond with the same degree of horror, especially if they came from less tolerant households themselves. Add this to the more predictable but no less traumatic experience of being the spurned woman and you have ample reason for her to blast Ennis years later with her devastating "Jack Nasty" remark.
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: lauren on January 12, 2006, 07:10:37 AM
Kumari, I agree with you up until the time Alma sees them from the doorway.  Then my own heart nearly broke because Alma isn't a bad person and doesn't deserve to get her feelings go through a ringer.  Then again, nobody in the film deserves the pain they've experienced.

Michelle Williams is dead-on in this scene when she says, ever so quietly, "'Lo." That is the only greeting to Jack that she can muster. No one in the room is breathing, for different reasons, of course.
I feel for Alma, as another tragedy in this story.
But what makes the tension even more palpable is that she is a part of the society that rejects their love. Alma is a good person, but she is homophobic and she is repulsed by what she has seen. She looks at Jack as if he is a circus freak.
I won't speculate as to how she would feel if she were not in that unenviable position, but her venomous "Jack Nasty" comment gives us a pretty good idea.

Just another thought here: I think it was in the LOGO special where Michele Williams (or McMurtry or Ossanna) says that Alma doesn't understand what she's seen (paraphrasing) and that it creates a lot of questions in her mind. She doesn't understand because "queer" isn't something that's entered her world at all. It has a devastating effect on her because she has seen something so out of the realm of her understanding, but yet it's still her husband in passionate embrace, more passionate than he has been with her. In time (or maybe at that time) she realizes in her heart that what she has seen fits with Ennis' behavior around her (moving away to the side of bed at night, etc., his dispassion towards her)  She never talks to Ennis about it (and we know Ennis can't talk about it), and so after years pass, she's drawn her own conclusions based on ignorance (probably what she's heard around) and bitterness. That "Jack nasty" to me reflects what the community (in general) would have thought, and that is so hard to have Ennis hear it like that, to have their tremendous love reduced to that. 
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: imennisshesjack on January 12, 2006, 08:01:36 AM
"have this to say about the reunion scene, I find myself really watching what happens with Jack/Jake... and the look on his face when Ennis has grabbed him and kissed him so unbelievably.. and is holding him by the head, oh my God"

Wow. Yeah. And as ImJackShe'sEnnis pointed out to me, watch Jake's eyes in that little clip on the Pathe (French) site. Afer they kiss, Jack can't keep his eyes off Ennis's mouth. Just like he could eat him alive.

*sigh*
 :-[
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: sotoalf on January 12, 2006, 09:15:04 AM
it's a lovely acting moment from Gyllenhaal – one of the few times in his and Ennis' sad relationship in which the reality matched his dreaming. The devastation in his eyes ("I can't believe he loves me," they seem to say) when Ennis pulls away after the kiss is so heartbreaking.
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: sotoalf on January 12, 2006, 09:44:41 AM
Oh – if someone has photos or links to streamed video of Ennis and Jack post-kiss, just before they head upstairs, I'll be most grateful.
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: scot5636 on January 12, 2006, 11:08:54 AM
Since Ennis was already out of his element and comfort zone by eating dinner w/ his ex-wife and her new husband in their home, there was really no reason for Alma to go after him.  UNLESS she was looking for some way to wound him and/or justify her divorcing him.

I think Ennis provoked Alma's response in that scene.  She asks him why he hasn't remarried, and he responds something like "oh, you know, once burned . . ." implying that the divorce was Alma's fault.  You can argue that, by asking the first question, Alma was already heading that way.  But when Ennis tries to blame her, she wants to set the record straight (so to speak).

In that scene, when Alma throws out the "Jack nasty" comment, and Ennis grabs her arm -- does Ennis say "you don't know nothin' about it, or "you don't know nothin' about him" ??  I'd like to think that he would jump to Jack's defense, but his character is much more likely to be more concerned about the revelation, and therefor try to pretend that it was something other than what it was.
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: lauren on January 12, 2006, 12:37:46 PM
Since Ennis was already out of his element and comfort zone by eating dinner w/ his ex-wife and her new husband in their home, there was really no reason for Alma to go after him.  UNLESS she was looking for some way to wound him and/or justify her divorcing him.

I think Ennis provoked Alma's response in that scene.  She asks him why he hasn't remarried, and he responds something like "oh, you know, once burned . . ." implying that the divorce was Alma's fault.  You can argue that, by asking the first question, Alma was already heading that way.  But when Ennis tries to blame her, she wants to set the record straight (so to speak).

In that scene, when Alma throws out the "Jack nasty" comment, and Ennis grabs her arm -- does Ennis say "you don't know nothin' about it, or "you don't know nothin' about him" ??  I'd like to think that he would jump to Jack's defense, but his character is much more likely to be more concerned about the revelation, and therefor try to pretend that it was something other than what it was.

He says, 'you don't know nothin' about er,' meaning she doesn't know anything about the relationship with Jack and what it means to him.
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: David on January 12, 2006, 04:12:52 PM
Just another thought here: I think it was in the LOGO special where Michele Williams (or McMurtry or Ossanna) says that Alma doesn't understand what she's seen (paraphrasing) and that it creates a lot of questions in her mind. She doesn't understand because "queer" isn't something that's entered her world at all. It has a devastating effect on her because she has seen something so out of the realm of her understanding, but yet it's still her husband in passionate embrace, more passionate than he has been with her. In time (or maybe at that time) she realizes in her heart that what she has seen fits with Ennis' behavior around her (moving away to the side of bed at night, etc., his dispassion towards her)  She never talks to Ennis about it (and we know Ennis can't talk about it), and so after years pass, she's drawn her own conclusions based on ignorance (probably what she's heard around) and bitterness. That "Jack nasty" to me reflects what the community (in general) would have thought, and that is so hard to have Ennis hear it like that, to have their tremendous love reduced to that. 

Good insight, Lauren. One national critic said that Michelle Williams registered "10 types of alarm" in her face when she looked out the front door, which I thought was a great quote. She could not possibly process in her world what this meant.
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: 909dot on January 12, 2006, 06:34:56 PM
Interesting observation: when Ennis jumps two stairs at a time down to Jack when he finally arrives. In the book its actually Jack that takes two stairs at a time up to Ennis...I like this way better...it shows that Ennis is forever changed and is literally running to the only one for him...

Todd
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: justmeincal on January 12, 2006, 06:50:29 PM
Interesting observation: when Ennis jumps two stairs at a time down to Jack when he finally arrives. In the book its actually Jack that takes two stairs at a time up to Ennis...I like this way better...it shows that Ennis is forever changed and is literally running to the only one for him...

Todd

I agree Todd.  Ennis was so full of happiness and wonder at that moment.  Damn, I CAN'T wait to get the DVD and relive some of these scenes over and over.

Steve
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: kumari on January 12, 2006, 08:11:16 PM
Kumari, I agree with you up until the time Alma sees them from the doorway.  Then my own heart nearly broke because Alma isn't a bad person and doesn't deserve to get her feelings go through a ringer.  Then again, nobody in the film deserves the pain they've experienced.

Michelle Williams is dead-on in this scene when she says, ever so quietly, "'Lo." That is the only greeting to Jack that she can muster. No one in the room is breathing, for different reasons, of course.
I feel for Alma, as another tragedy in this story.
But what makes the tension even more palpable is that she is a part of the society that rejects their love. Alma is a good person, but she is homophobic and she is repulsed by what she has seen. She looks at Jack as if he is a circus freak.
I won't speculate as to how she would feel if she were not in that unenviable position, but her venomous "Jack Nasty" comment gives us a pretty good idea.

I agree with you re Michelle Williams' perfect response, but it's got nothing to do with "homophobia" - she just caught her husband kissing a man. Ask any straight woman on this board if she wouldn't respond with the same degree of horror, especially if they came from less tolerant households themselves. Add this to the more predictable but no less traumatic experience of being the spurned woman and you have ample reason for her to blast Ennis years later with her devastating "Jack Nasty" remark.

Disagree.
When Annie Proulx was asked what BBM is about, she stated, "the destructive power of rural homophobia."
I knew that this Alma post was going to be a little unpopular, which is fine.
My point is that Alma is just as complicated as all of the other characters in the story. It's not either she is the betrayed wife or she is homophobic. She's both, and that does not detract from her suffering, it adds to it. She has been betrayed by something that she doesn't comprehend.
She does still love Ennis, just as she hates what he and Jack do. But she doesn't just hate it because it's adultrery. Ennis loves Jack, and he feels ashamed of his own nature. He doesn't just fear the tire iron, he fears society's judgment.
Do you think she would ever let Ennis see their daughters if he actually lived with "Jack Nasty?"
I think we have reason to believe that Alma believes that homosexuality as wrong, as most of the people in their community do.
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: bookgirl on January 12, 2006, 08:18:28 PM
Interesting observation: when Ennis jumps two stairs at a time down to Jack when he finally arrives. In the book its actually Jack that takes two stairs at a time up to Ennis...I like this way better...it shows that Ennis is forever changed and is literally running to the only one for him...

Todd

Excellent observation!  With so many sad moments and emotions tied to BBM  it's easy to take the small moments of joy for granted and not see them for what they are. 
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: peteinportland on January 12, 2006, 08:30:04 PM
I, for one, certainly don't disagree with you Kumari about Alma being homophobic. I just don't know if it is relevant for us to know as we process the film and/or book. I guess i am not sure if her homophobia has anything to do with the storyline or what the artists are asking us to take from it. Do you think it is important for the viewer and reader to know? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: dudnkink on January 13, 2006, 12:37:58 AM
Here's the French site that includes a clip of the reunion scene - Ennis waiting up to the look around. The way Jack looks at Ennis after they break the hug just slays me. The hug could be just hey, sonofabitch, nice to see you, but then his eyes go to Ennis' mouth and stay there and

http://www.pathedistribution.com/accueil/videos.php?start=0&IDFilm=610


Damn and gone!  I've seen the movie 4x and the reunion hug I don't know how many more, but when Jack just stays orally fixated on Ennis' mouth, I lose it.  My heart is pounding every bit as fast as theirs I'll bet. lol.  That scene has chemistry and heat.  It is more than acting.  I love it that there is no "play" here.  It is all passion and pent up emotion and repressed need.  How Ennis remains clear headed enough to break apart from Jack and regain [a little] composure is beyond me.  I do love it that they're both still breathless at the top of the stairs when Ennis introduces Jack to Alma.  Love it.  She notices too.
I know what they're feeling and I find it hard to remain composed when I reunite w/ my girl after our long separations.  It's painful to be that aware of another person - their pulse, their scent, their breathing and it's worse to be apart.
Yes- this scene is pure movie-magic.  My very favorite in the film.  When the two of them look face to face, right before the kiss, the audience where I was, laughed- myself included, because it caught me so off guard when they kissed.  And my knees just went.  But this scene in the book was extraordinary because it described Jack after their kiss.  While he was standing in the kitchen, "From the vibration of the floorboard on which they both stood, Ennis could feel how hard Jack was shaking."  WOW- I've been there. 
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: ImEnnisShesJack on January 13, 2006, 05:09:57 AM
Disagree.
When Annie Proulx was asked what BBM is about, she stated, "the destructive power of rural homophobia."
I knew that this Alma post was going to be a little unpopular, which is fine.
My point is that Alma is just as complicated as all of the other characters in the story. It's not either she is the betrayed wife or she is homophobic. She's both, and that does not detract from her suffering, it adds to it. She has been betrayed by something that she doesn't comprehend.
She does still love Ennis, just as she hates what he and Jack do. But she doesn't just hate it because it's adultrery. Ennis loves Jack, and he feels ashamed of his own nature. He doesn't just fear the tire iron, he fears society's judgment.
Do you think she would ever let Ennis see their daughters if he actually lived with "Jack Nasty?"
I think we have reason to believe that Alma believes that homosexuality as wrong, as most of the people in their community do.

and again we have to go back to the undeniable facts that they were all uneducated and unsophisticated to boot.  Even if Alma had the chronological maturity to deal with what she saw on the stairs, she didn't have the emotional or cognative abilities to wrap her head around "homosexuality."  It took her another 10 years or so before she even confronted Ennis and even then, her words and emotions are stunted.
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: 909dot on January 13, 2006, 08:21:24 AM
I, for one, certainly don't disagree with you Kumari about Alma being homophobic. I just don't know if it is relevant for us to know as we process the film and/or book. I guess i am not sure if her homophobia has anything to do with the storyline or what the artists are asking us to take from it. Do you think it is important for the viewer and reader to know? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

I think what  Alma is feeling is in its own way homophobic, although at that time and place in history that wasn't even a word...its the first time she has seen such a thing... not to mention the fact she sees her husband display a passion she has only imagined, and to discount that its with a man, and all the conflicts THAT brings to the table, i think minimizes Alma's reaction. All the years Alma swallowed her confussion and anger...not telling anyone what really happend. Ennis wasn't devouring a woman on the staircase...I think if he had been, Alma would have taken a broom and whacked her a couple of times, or at least would have made his life miserable from that point on.

Todd
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: kumari on January 13, 2006, 07:02:32 PM
Disagree.
When Annie Proulx was asked what BBM is about, she stated, "the destructive power of rural homophobia."
I knew that this Alma post was going to be a little unpopular, which is fine.
My point is that Alma is just as complicated as all of the other characters in the story. It's not either she is the betrayed wife or she is homophobic. She's both, and that does not detract from her suffering, it adds to it. She has been betrayed by something that she doesn't comprehend.
She does still love Ennis, just as she hates what he and Jack do. But she doesn't just hate it because it's adultrery. Ennis loves Jack, and he feels ashamed of his own nature. He doesn't just fear the tire iron, he fears society's judgment.
Do you think she would ever let Ennis see their daughters if he actually lived with "Jack Nasty?"
I think we have reason to believe that Alma believes that homosexuality as wrong, as most of the people in their community do.

and again we have to go back to the undeniable facts that they were all uneducated and unsophisticated to boot.  Even if Alma had the chronological maturity to deal with what she saw on the stairs, she didn't have the emotional or cognative abilities to wrap her head around "homosexuality."  It took her another 10 years or so before she even confronted Ennis and even then, her words and emotions are stunted.

Absolutely.
Her years of pain and anger boil over and she just wants Ennis to be as embarrased and as hurt as she was/is at that moment.
She was simmering with resentment, but she waited until she was in a safe place (with Munroe) before she opens fire on Ennis.
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: kumari on January 13, 2006, 07:09:25 PM
I, for one, certainly don't disagree with you Kumari about Alma being homophobic. I just don't know if it is relevant for us to know as we process the film and/or book. I guess i am not sure if her homophobia has anything to do with the storyline or what the artists are asking us to take from it. Do you think it is important for the viewer and reader to know? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

It spoke to me, but for some people, it may be irrelevant.
At some point in the movie, most people get frustrated with Ennis. His locked-down speech, his rusted-shut jaw.
You want to shake him by the shoulders and scream at him to go and get Jack and run away before it's too late.
I think it is hard for me to put myself in his place because I am of my world, not that world. Even his fear of bashing seems so remote, like a bad dream that he can't (or won't) wake up from.
But when I look at Alma's face when she finally unleashes the anger she has been holding since the reunion scene, it makes Ennis' plight more real to me.
It's not some stranger murdered in a field.
It's your ex-wife and the mother of your little darlins telling you to marry again, because that is what you're supposed to do. Yes, she was worried about him living alone. But somewhere underneath that, her words mean that Jack's love is debauchery, a woman's love is the only love.
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: 909dot on January 14, 2006, 06:36:34 PM
In all the reunions...does everyone notice how nervous and fast he moves to get out and see Jack? so excited... and when he is in his house, he ether sits and doesn't move ( "fire and brimstone crowed) or moves like molasses...nice work by Heath...I'm sure a conscious choice...

Todd
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: muse on January 14, 2006, 06:50:09 PM
In all the reunions...does everyone notice how nervous and fast he moves to get out and see Jack? so excited... and when he is in his house, he ether sits and doesn't move ( "fire and brimstone crowed) or moves like molasses...nice work by Heath...I'm sure a conscious choice...

Todd

yes! i love that. when jack gets to the apartment and ennis jumps up and runs out, you can see the look of surprise and confusion on alma's face. i don't think he has ever moved that fast! i also love how he tucks the back of his shirt in as he runs out the door. also, at the beginning of that scene, sitting by the window, his face is so clean shaven and fresh as though he has just showered and groomed himself. it is the most handsome that ennis looks in the whole film.
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: shipwrecked on January 14, 2006, 06:54:24 PM
I, for one, certainly don't disagree with you Kumari about Alma being homophobic. I just don't know if it is relevant for us to know as we process the film and/or book. I guess i am not sure if her homophobia has anything to do with the storyline or what the artists are asking us to take from it. Do you think it is important for the viewer and reader to know? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

It spoke to me, but for some people, it may be irrelevant.
At some point in the movie, most people get frustrated with Ennis. His locked-down speech, his rusted-shut jaw.
You want to shake him by the shoulders and scream at him to go and get Jack and run away before it's too late.
I think it is hard for me to put myself in his place because I am of my world, not that world. Even his fear of bashing seems so remote, like a bad dream that he can't (or won't) wake up from.
But when I look at Alma's face when she finally unleashes the anger she has been holding since the reunion scene, it makes Ennis' plight more real to me.
It's not some stranger murdered in a field.
It's your ex-wife and the mother of your little darlins telling you to marry again, because that is what you're supposed to do. Yes, she was worried about him living alone. But somewhere underneath that, her words mean that Jack's love is debauchery, a woman's love is the only love.




Kumari, I think you have put it perfectly.  Whether or not (probably not) Alma understood exactly what she was seeing, she felt she was seeing something alien and terrible and impossible to fight directly, as it might have been with another woman. 
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: kumari on January 14, 2006, 09:15:25 PM
... not to mention the fact she sees her husband display a passion she has only imagined

Todd

Ah, yes. Very, very important.
Just imagine what it must have been like for Alma to see Ennis hungrily, feverishly kissing someone else. To know that he could be that way.
Just not with her.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: pdxbennett on January 15, 2006, 12:07:42 AM
This is the point in the film that Ennis cements Jack's love for him. 

Ennis spontaneously responded to his own emotions for Jack without Jack having to do a thing.  Most likely for the first and only time.  I can imagine what Jack was feeling.  Some one who rejected him has grabbed him with both arms in broad daylight and is showering him with passionate kisses.   I have been sporadically kissing men for 20 years.  What I saw on that screen was the realist portrayal of passion between two involved men that I have ever seen much less experienced personally.  Jake and Heath certainly put aside their natural inclinations and became Jack and Ennis.

Now, of course, poor Alma got crushed.   How could she have seen that coming?   At least she was smart enough to get out and find her own happiness later.



Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion - the night in the motel
Post by: PetterG on January 15, 2006, 07:42:12 AM
One thing which I am confused about is: wasn't it 'dangerous' to share that room at the motel? someone (the motel manager) would maybe suspect something...
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ImEnnisShesJack on January 15, 2006, 07:43:58 AM
I know I've commented on this scene numerous times, analyised it to the nth degree, frame by frame in some instances.  But I saw the movie [again] Saturday, and this scene gave me another reason to like it.  When Ennis comes down the stairs and hugs Jack, and then they break apart, I'm still absolutely gobsmacked by Jack's eyes going straight to Ennis' mouth and staying there.  Jack doesn't see Ennis look around to see if the coast is clear per se, but when Ennis starts walking him backwards, his hands holding Jack by the collar of his vest....  The look on Jack's face is priceless.  It's open shock and amazement and (fear?).  Right to the point he slams back against the wall and Ennis' mouth comes down on his.

Just perfection.

Lovesit!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion - the night in the motel
Post by: ImEnnisShesJack on January 15, 2006, 07:45:48 AM
One thing which I am confused about is: wasn't it 'dangerous' to share that room at the motel? someone (the motel manager) would maybe suspect something...

Yes. But in america, these little roadside motels are nothing more than a dozen or so connected one room cottages.  The entrances are all outside.  One of them could have booked a room and none would be the wiser.

Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion - the night in the motel
Post by: 909dot on January 15, 2006, 08:51:21 AM
One thing which I am confused about is: wasn't it 'dangerous' to share that room at the motel? someone (the motel manager) would maybe suspect something...

Yes. But in america, these little roadside motels are nothing more than a dozen or so connected one room cottages.  The entrances are all outside.  One of them could have booked a room and none would be the wiser.



What happens in a roadside motel stays in a roadside motel....

Todd
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: mwiersma on January 15, 2006, 10:52:18 AM
Kumari, I agree with you up until the time Alma sees them from the doorway.  Then my own heart nearly broke because Alma isn't a bad person and doesn't deserve to get her feelings go through a ringer.  Then again, nobody in the film deserves the pain they've experienced.

I feel for Alma, as another tragedy in this story.
But what makes the tension even more palpable is that she is a part of the society that rejects their love. Alma is a good person, but she is homophobic and she is repulsed by what she has seen. She looks at Jack as if he is a circus freak.
I won't speculate as to how she would feel if she were not in that unenviable position, but her venomous "Jack Nasty" comment gives us a pretty good idea.
I'm not sure I'd be quick to label Alma homophobic.  For all his shortcomings and his lack of earning potential, it's clear that she loves Ennis.  Jack, whom she has just met, indeed has just recently known existed, has clearly taken a part of her husband away.  The passion she has just witnessed is a passion she has never known, as she has stood by her husband for years and given birth to his children.  I would submit that she is less repulsed by what she has just seen than she is sad and angry that her life is forever changed in a way she had previously not even considered possible.  And for her, the sadness and sense of loss would only intensify over time, and the only way she could ever express this to Ennis was in that one comment, "Jack Nasty," probably intended to HURT Ennis more than an actual opinion of hers.  And hurt Ennis, it did.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: 909dot on January 15, 2006, 04:47:53 PM
ok, this is for you hard core BBM fans...
after the blissfull night in the Motel,what does Ennis take from the medicine cabinet in his house before he goes to the Mountains.....(he has the tooth brush in his mouth...) Ive always tried to see, but its to quick...if anyone cant tell me,,,I GUESS ill have to go see it yet again!!! it must be something of meaning...nothing is surface in this well thought out movie...(the tooth brush is so classic...what guy thinks to take his tooth brush to the mountains for a couple of days unless there is going to be allot of kissin' goin' on.)

Todd
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Mr. Wrong on January 15, 2006, 04:59:42 PM
after the blissfull night in the Motel,what does Ennis take from the medicine cabinet in his house before he goes to the Mountains.....(he has the tooth brush in his mouth

vaseline? I'm just guessing.
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: kumari on January 15, 2006, 07:31:44 PM
Kumari, I agree with you up until the time Alma sees them from the doorway.  Then my own heart nearly broke because Alma isn't a bad person and doesn't deserve to get her feelings go through a ringer.  Then again, nobody in the film deserves the pain they've experienced.

I feel for Alma, as another tragedy in this story.
But what makes the tension even more palpable is that she is a part of the society that rejects their love. Alma is a good person, but she is homophobic and she is repulsed by what she has seen. She looks at Jack as if he is a circus freak.
I won't speculate as to how she would feel if she were not in that unenviable position, but her venomous "Jack Nasty" comment gives us a pretty good idea.
I'm not sure I'd be quick to label Alma homophobic.  For all his shortcomings and his lack of earning potential, it's clear that she loves Ennis.  Jack, whom she has just met, indeed has just recently known existed, has clearly taken a part of her husband away.  The passion she has just witnessed is a passion she has never known, as she has stood by her husband for years and given birth to his children.  I would submit that she is less repulsed by what she has just seen than she is sad and angry that her life is forever changed in a way she had previously not even considered possible.  And for her, the sadness and sense of loss would only intensify over time, and the only way she could ever express this to Ennis was in that one comment, "Jack Nasty," probably intended to HURT Ennis more than an actual opinion of hers.  And hurt Ennis, it did.
Alright, we can disagree.
I just don't see why we have to choose between the Alma who is hurt and betrayed and the Alma who thinks that Ennis loving a man is wrong. She can be all of those things and we can still cry for her.
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: HunterPDX on January 16, 2006, 04:49:52 PM
Disagree.
When Annie Proulx was asked what BBM is about, she stated, "the destructive power of rural homophobia."
I knew that this Alma post was going to be a little unpopular, which is fine.
My point is that Alma is just as complicated as all of the other characters in the story. It's not either she is the betrayed wife or she is homophobic. She's both, and that does not detract from her suffering, it adds to it. She has been betrayed by something that she doesn't comprehend.
She does still love Ennis, just as she hates what he and Jack do. But she doesn't just hate it because it's adultrery. Ennis loves Jack, and he feels ashamed of his own nature. He doesn't just fear the tire iron, he fears society's judgment.
Do you think she would ever let Ennis see their daughters if he actually lived with "Jack Nasty?"
I think we have reason to believe that Alma believes that homosexuality as wrong, as most of the people in their community do.

and again we have to go back to the undeniable facts that they were all uneducated and unsophisticated to boot.  Even if Alma had the chronological maturity to deal with what she saw on the stairs, she didn't have the emotional or cognative abilities to wrap her head around "homosexuality."  It took her another 10 years or so before she even confronted Ennis and even then, her words and emotions are stunted.

I give Alma a little more credit, though I do agree that she's probably homophobic.  She had enough maturity to recognize the sinking ship of their marriage for what it was and file for a divorce.  Watch the courtroom scene--she's the plaintiff, and she's granted custody of the kids (though men were never ever granted child custody in those days).  She obviously suspected that Jack and Ennis' fishing trips weren't to go fish--she was sophisiticated enough to concoct the Great Fishing Pole Experiment to test her hypothesis.  I think the reason why she doesn't say anything to Ennis until that Thanksgiving dinner is because wives don't directly confront their husbands about infidelity in that time and place. 
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: OnesEnough on January 17, 2006, 07:34:31 AM
In the book "son of a bitch" is said twice, whereas in the movie only once. There is a difference - comments?
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: marius on January 17, 2006, 09:53:51 AM
I love all the little touches in this scene, starting from when Ennis is anxiously awaiting Jack's return. The story says that he's put on his best shirt for the occassion, which we can't really tell in the movie, although it's clear it's a nicer shirt than what he normally wears! All that waiting throughout the day... And then when he hears the truck outside, the little smile that crosses his face (and how many times do we get to see Ennis smile?) when he sees Jack alighting outside. He rushes out of the room, tucking in this shirt in the back. Wants to look his best!  "Jack Fuckin' Twist!" BIG SMILE. The race down the stairs and then the embrace - son of a bitch, son of a bitch. That embrace they've been waiting for - four years delayed - and WE'VE been waiting for for what seems an equally long time. So wonderful to behold. The furtive glances around to see if they've been spotted and then, fuck it, throw that sucker into the corner and kiss him like there's no tomorrow. And back at him, from Jack. Oh, my gosh... How often do we get to see real passion like this on the screen or anywhere for that matter. Do I have any regrets? Just wish it was even longer and of course, one of my big regrets: that during the course of the film we never get to hear Ennis utter his only endearment to Jack described in the story: calling him "little darlin'" Oh well, somewhere in the privacy of their moments Jack was called this, even if we don't get to hear it :D
yeah it would have been soooooooo nice to hear Ennis say "little darlin.."though.
It would have made many of us a little happier to discover the tender of Ennis.
By the way he only says it to the horses and his little girls!
Well it sounds stupid but I find the parallel so cute and deeply touching
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: muse on January 17, 2006, 11:33:36 AM
after the blissfull night in the Motel,what does Ennis take from the medicine cabinet in his house before he goes to the Mountains.....(he has the tooth brush in his mouth

vaseline? I'm just guessing.

i thought it was a bottle of pills. guess i'll have to check again tonight! (god, i'm an addict)
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: 909dot on January 17, 2006, 11:59:10 AM
after the blissfull night in the Motel,what does Ennis take from the medicine cabinet in his house before he goes to the Mountains.....(he has the tooth brush in his mouth

vaseline? I'm just guessing.

i thought it was a bottle of pills. guess i'll have to check again tonight! (god, i'm an addict)


Pills seems like a strange thing to grab from the medicine cabnet...Ennis taking aspirin for a headache?...I cant see it....its small and fits in his had...I seen the movie more than once Ill say. and I CANT make it out....

Anyone else out there have a suggestion...?

Todd
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: aceygirl on January 17, 2006, 01:46:56 PM
after the blissfull night in the Motel,what does Ennis take from the medicine cabinet in his house before he goes to the Mountains.....(he has the tooth brush in his mouth

vaseline? I'm just guessing.

i thought it was a bottle of pills. guess i'll have to check again tonight! (god, i'm an addict)


Pills seems like a strange thing to grab from the medicine cabnet...Ennis taking aspirin for a headache?...I cant see it....its small and fits in his had...I seen the movie more than once Ill say. and I CANT make it out....

Anyone else out there have a suggestion...?

Todd

I think the idea of vaseline (or its ilk) is both reasonable and appealing. ;)

Re: Alma--I do think the main thing is about her husband being unfaithful, with the added "insult" of it being another man. Indeed, it IS a homophobic society, thus Ennis's fear throughout the movie. His "you don't know nothin' about this" threat to Alma is fueled out of that fear. IF she told everyone he had cheated on her with another woman, it wouldn't really be that fearsome for him. It's just the society he, and she, live in. I don't think she's deliberately homophobic--she just is a product of the world she lives in. I see it as first and foremost her being hurt, and secondarily the fact that it's another man. "Jack NASTY."

My gay best friend asked me if I'd be turned on by the idea of my BF getting it on with another guy. Without making this a confessional, I'll say that he had good reason to ask that question. However, there is a world of difference between having a 3-some with two hot bi guys and the situation of seeing my lifemate evidence a level of passion for someone else--male or female--that he never showed with me. That and the secrecy. That would be unacceptable. That's what Alma must deal with. To give her credit, she apparently never does tell anybody Ennis's secret.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: kumari on January 17, 2006, 05:23:49 PM
I don't think she's deliberately homophobic--she just is a product of the world she lives in.

I respect your opinion.
Do you think that we let people off the hook more often when the subject is homophobia as opposed to other "-isms?"
Would you have written this sentence if we were talking about race?
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: muse on January 17, 2006, 08:09:27 PM
after the blissfull night in the Motel,what does Ennis take from the medicine cabinet in his house before he goes to the Mountains.....(he has the tooth brush in his mouth

vaseline? I'm just guessing.

i thought it was a bottle of pills. guess i'll have to check again tonight! (god, i'm an addict)


Pills seems like a strange thing to grab from the medicine cabnet...Ennis taking aspirin for a headache?...I cant see it....its small and fits in his had...I seen the movie more than once Ill say. and I CANT make it out....

Anyone else out there have a suggestion...?

Todd

ok, saw it again tonight and still could not catch a glimpse of the object. there is a brief sound that comes across to me as a rattle (hence, my pills guess), but my friend (and viewing partner tonight) guessed razor, which makes sense.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: angela_toronto on January 17, 2006, 10:59:55 PM
in most scenes at home, notice that ennis sits with his legs crossed and his body tight. 

yet when he's waiting for jack, notice that he sits with legs splayed wide open?  dont need to be a genius to read the symbolism there.

also, i saw the movie earlier today and paid attention to what he removed from the medicine chest.  like an earlier poster said, you really cannot see it but most likely its a razor.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: aceygirl on January 18, 2006, 11:21:27 AM
I don't think she's deliberately homophobic--she just is a product of the world she lives in.

I respect your opinion.
Do you think that we let people off the hook more often when the subject is homophobia as opposed to other "-isms?"
Would you have written this sentence if we were talking about race?

Thank you. Ditto.
I think that yes, I would have. I'm not saying that ignorance makes the "ism" any more acceptable, but ignorance is a different root than deliberate hatred. They can certainly become intertwined.

If somebody who has never met an Asian before sees me and is amazed that I "speak good English" or assumes I will be docile, sweet and obedient, it's one thing if they honestly just are ignorant. If they are willing to let go of stereotypes, and not hold on to them once they see otherwise, then I don't take the kind of offense that I will when someone yells "Hey Chink!"

That's why I said "deliberately" homophobic. She is a product of a world where she probably had no education on the subject and certainly no discussion. And no motivation to, since she is being cuckolded. I don't think people are outright "black" or "white" in their ...isms, no pun intended. Lack of education, worldly experience, whatever can play factors. It's when someone rejects facts and clings to stereotypes that feed their hatred that it truly turns from "ism" to hatred, prejudice and bigotry.

Just my opinion, as usual.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: plc on January 19, 2006, 03:39:51 PM
QUESTION -

Not sure if this has already been answered, so I apologize for repeating the question.

In AP's story,  Ennis says - "It took me about a year to realize it, but I should have never let you out of my sight"

So he's acknowledging how much Jack meant to him.  Other than what the movie portrays as Ennis being totally conflicted about this weird feeling, "this thing" that grabs a hold of him and makes him so odd and always wondering what other people think of him.

It's just a subtle shift of perception that was left out of the movie that I think would have softened the blow of Ennis continually rebuffing Jack's ideas as absurd.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: 909dot on January 19, 2006, 04:04:43 PM
after the blissfull night in the Motel,what does Ennis take from the medicine cabinet in his house before he goes to the Mountains.....(he has the tooth brush in his mouth

vaseline? I'm just guessing.

i thought it was a bottle of pills. guess i'll have to check again tonight! (god, i'm an addict)


Pills seems like a strange thing to grab from the medicine cabnet...Ennis taking aspirin for a headache?...I cant see it....its small and fits in his had...I seen the movie more than once Ill say. and I CANT make it out....

Anyone else out there have a suggestion...?

Todd

ok, saw it again tonight and still could not catch a glimpse of the object. there is a brief sound that comes across to me as a rattle (hence, my pills guess), but my friend (and viewing partner tonight) guessed razor, which makes sense.

I guess it could be a razor...it just doesn't click...a razor for a couple of days?...Ennis is hardly the metrosexual... his first get away with Jack in 4 years and hes gonna shave?....hmmm....this will be my quest...to find out what he takes...its got to mean something even if it was just direction, "go take something out of the medicine cabinet...being an actor, I cant imagine that with all that detail work, Heath would have planted something to inspire his character....any other guesses...?

Todd

Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: kumari on January 19, 2006, 07:47:21 PM
QUESTION -

Not sure if this has already been answered, so I apologize for repeating the question.

In AP's story,  Ennis says - "It took me about a year to realize it, but I should have never let you out of my sight"

So he's acknowledging how much Jack meant to him.  Other than what the movie portrays as Ennis being totally conflicted about this weird feeling, "this thing" that grabs a hold of him and makes him so odd and always wondering what other people think of him.

It's just a subtle shift of perception that was left out of the movie that I think would have softened the blow of Ennis continually rebuffing Jack's ideas as absurd.

It was a risky choice to leave these things that Ennis says in the AP story out of the screenplay.
The Ennis of the film is even more locked down emotionally than the one in the story.
To continue in the logic of your point, I think that Ennis' behavior in the film is more consistent. For Ennis to say "Little darlin" and tell Jack about his vomiting after their separation would make his refusal to live with Jack even more perplexing. The way Ennis is written in the film, you can see how fear controls him, how he dares not even speak his love for Jack out loud in any way.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: phlmale on January 19, 2006, 09:06:04 PM
QUESTION -

Not sure if this has already been answered, so I apologize for repeating the question.

In AP's story,  Ennis says - "It took me about a year to realize it, but I should have never let you out of my sight"

So he's acknowledging how much Jack meant to him.  Other than what the movie portrays as Ennis being totally conflicted about this weird feeling, "this thing" that grabs a hold of him and makes him so odd and always wondering what other people think of him.

It's just a subtle shift of perception that was left out of the movie that I think would have softened the blow of Ennis continually rebuffing Jack's ideas as absurd.

It was a risky choice to leave these things that Ennis says in the AP story out of the screenplay.
The Ennis of the film is even more locked down emotionally than the one in the story.
To continue in the logic of your point, I think that Ennis' behavior in the film is more consistent. For Ennis to say "Little darlin" and tell Jack about his vomiting after their separation would make his refusal to live with Jack even more perplexing. The way Ennis is written in the film, you can see how fear controls him, how he dares not even speak his love for Jack out loud in any way.

I think you are right on with your last post.  Clearly there had to be some interpretations made to take this very short story and expand it...I agree with the screeplay version regarding their reunion and the motel scene.......in AP's version of the motel scene, the dialogue didn't seem quite right to me given my own real life experiences, given Ennis' inability to deal with intense intimacy, with a relationship with another man etc..the screenplay version where he shrugs and gives a terse "I dunno" (or something to that effect) when asked by Jack if he thought they would get into all this after a 4 yr absence seem right on the money.  (I really have to hand it to Heath Ledger...to show so brillantly a man tormented and emotionally starved, with bottled up emotion, only to lose control and let these deep intimate emotions burst out so unexpectedly and almost violently..absolutely brillant).

On the other hand...the second tent scene...I loved it, I agree with the screenplay and director that this really helps the audience understand that the bond between them was not just animal lust...but the short story had set it up so that Ennis had a hard time being close to Jack face to face, at least early in the story, and this rings so true to me....to then be so face-to-face intimate so early is hard for me to comprehend given Ennis' whole unease with the situation...notice how many times one of them has their back to the other when together.

 
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: 909dot on January 20, 2006, 08:20:53 PM
Well, Ive just gotten back from seeing the movie yet again...and I must say the Motel scene is one of the most romantic, sad, lonely , joyous things I  have ever seen...Ledger is untouchable in that scene....knocks me out

Todd
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ImEnnisShesJack on January 21, 2006, 05:16:17 AM
Well, Ive just gotten back from seeing the movie yet again...and I must say the Motel scene is one of the most romantic, sad, lonely , joyous things I  have ever seen...Ledger is untouchable in that scene....knocks me out

Todd

Went last night (viewing #6 - *waving to Ron*)  and saw things that struck me differently...Ennis rubbing Jack's arm, even as he is saying, "there's nothing we CAN do about this."  All bottled up and stoic and pressed lips.  He's still reaching to Jack for comfort, contact.  There were tradeoffs made between the story and the screenplay.  Certain aspects were downplayed and/or omitted which would have clarified more of the intimacy betwen them, but other things were added to give the plot better direction.  There had to be interpretations and artistic license.

(Anyone else notice that Jake looks a little like Kevin Spacey in that scene???)
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: sapstar on January 21, 2006, 07:43:05 AM

I think you are right one with your last post.  Clearly there had to be some interpretations made to take this very short story and expand it...I agree with the screeplay version regarding their reunion and the motel scene.......in AP's version of the motel scene, the dialogue didn't seem quite right to me given my own real life experiences, given Ennis' inability to deal with intense intimacy, with a relationship with another man etc..the screenplay version where he shrugs and gives a terse "I dunno" (or something to that effect) when asked by Jack if he thought they would get into all this after a 4 yr absence seem right on the money.  (I really have to hand it to Heath Ledger...to show so brillantly a man tormented and emotionally starved, with bottled up emotion, only to lose control and let these deep intimate emotions burst out so unexpectedly and almost violently..absolutely brillant).

On the other hand...the second tent scene...I loved it, I agree with the screenplay and director that this really helps the audience understand that the bond between them was not just animal lust...but the short story had set it up so that Ennis had a hard time being close to Jack face to face, at least early in the story, and this rings so true to me....to then be so face-to-face intimate so early is hard for me to comprehend given Ennis' whole unease with the situation...notice how many times one of them has their back to the other when together.

 


My take on this is that Annie wanted us to feel that Ennis was really more confortable when he was around Jack, hence the intense kiss at the reunion, in broad daylight, 10 feet from his wife (in the story, it happens in his own staircase).   When you read a story and the "film" draws itself in your mind, this is easier to see.  But for the sake of the movie, where no matter how many details you put in, all of this gets thrown in the spectator's face, at a huge rythm, much of which the spectator won't get.  Having seen Ennis being so thorned since the beginning of the movie, that line, I agree, would maybe have been confusing.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ImEnnisShesJack on January 21, 2006, 07:54:37 AM
My take on this is that Annie wanted us to feel that Ennis was really more confortable when he was around Jack, hence the intense kiss at the reunion, in broad daylight, 10 feet from his wife (in the story, it happens in his own staircase).   

Well put.  I hadn't seen it quite that way, but you are right.  Only when he was with Jack could Ennis be truly comfortably unconsciously himself.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: 909dot on January 21, 2006, 08:41:00 AM
Well, Ive just gotten back from seeing the movie yet again...and I must say the Motel scene is one of the most romantic, sad, lonely , joyous things I  have ever seen...Ledger is untouchable in that scene....knocks me out

Todd

Went last night (viewing #6 - *waving to Ron*)  and saw things that struck me differently...Ennis rubbing Jack's arm, even as he is saying, "there's nothing we CAN do about this."  All bottled up and stoic and pressed lips.  He's still reaching to Jack for comfort, contact.  There were tradeoffs made between the story and the screenplay.  Certain aspects were downplayed and/or omitted which would have clarified more of the intimacy betwen them, but other things were added to give the plot better direction.  There had to be interpretations and artistic license.

(Anyone else notice that Jake looks a little like Kevin Spacey in that scene???)

I think you may be as pleasantly obsessed as I am ; Every time I go, new things appearer...(and Ive been a lot)... this last time I noticed that at the Reunion, after Alma sees them on the stair case, Ennis and Jack come up the stairs and into the room, right before Ennis enters you can see him wiping his mouth to erase any trace of Jack...and the whole time they stand in the door way, Ennis cant take his eyes off Jack...and the way Ennis nuzzles Jack and rubs his forhead to his face before they part to go up to Alma...sigh....I'm just a gushy romantic I guess....I also agree with some of the post's that there should have been more physicality between them (like in the book) but showing these moments when everything goes gloriously and magically right for the both of them, I think, makes the story of "what could have been" more powerful...


Todd
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ImEnnisShesJack on January 21, 2006, 08:53:02 AM
I think you may be as pleasantly obsessed as I am ; Every time I go, new things appearer...(and Ive been a lot)... this last time I noticed that at the Reunion, after Alma sees them on the stair case, Ennis and Jack come up the stairs and into the room, right before Ennis enters you can see him wiping his mouth to erase any trace of Jack...and the whole time they stand in the door way, Ennis cant take his eyes off Jack...and the way Ennis nuzzles Jack and rubs his forhead to his face before they part to go up to Alma...sigh....I'm just a gushy romantic I guess....I also agree with some of the post's that there should have been more physicality between them (like in the book) but showing these moments when everything goes gloriously and magically right for the both of them, I think, makes the story of "what could have been" more powerful...

I'm barrelling into "obsessed" with every post.  And yes, those little exchanges reduce me to mush, the problem is, the average moviegoer isn't going to see those unless they are watching the movie with a fine-toothed comb.  There is such amazing chemistry and tenderness between Jack and Ennis when they are together - look that the reunion scene after the hug, just before Ennis pushes Jack against the wall...the way Jack fixates on Ennis' mouth and suddenly seems lost!  Or the way Ennis flips Jack's hat off right before he hits the wall and the "right key turns the lock tumblers"...(if you ever impulsively kissed someone wearing a baseball or cowboy hat - the brim can be painful.)  I love it that Ennis had the foresight to knock that damn hatbrim outta the way...no obstructions.  But I've got eight different .gif files saved to my computer from this scene alone (and I watch them frame by frame when I can)...I've analyzed the hell out of this movie.

"Normal" people are going to miss a lot of the imagery.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: zach on January 21, 2006, 10:35:19 AM
The scene where Alma meets Jack is so interesting because there are so many emotions flying around. 

Ennis looks embarassed and joyful at the same time and I thought that it was realistic that he wiped his mouth on his sleeve, as if to transition from Jack and the kiss to Alma.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: bookgirl on January 21, 2006, 11:09:18 PM

"Normal" people are going to miss a lot of the imagery.

   Thank God there are no "Normal" people here  ;D
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: peteinportland on January 21, 2006, 11:15:49 PM
Damn you Dot and IJSE...I haven't cried in several days (since viewing #7 on Wed). Now , you guys go an make me sniffle with the descriptions of the nuzzle and Ennis not taking his eyes off Jack. Damn, damn, damn. *reaches for the kleenex*
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: crcj on January 22, 2006, 12:39:49 AM
I did not feel this scene was one of my favorites the first time I saw the movie.  After going a second time, I am so much more appreciative of the work done to make this scene stand out.

The sheer power of Ennis' emotion is important.  In the short story, he utters some dialogue that makes us understand how much he has missed Jack and how he already knows he screwed up by letting Jack get away in the first place.  These lines are not incorporated into the movie.  So, it was nice to be more aware tonight that they are included in the actions of the scene.

It is one of the only times where we see Ennis totally out of control, as someone else has mentioned.  I love that.  He is the initiator of the intimacy and he cannot get close enough to Jack.  The power of his actions communicates so clearly how he has been feeling, and the sense of joy at overcoming what he thought was a permanently lost opportunity to have Jack in his life.

The scene still tears out my heart later when they are on the riverbank and Jack talks about them having a real life together.  Jake delivers that sequence with such beautiful understanding of it.  I love when Ennis gets ready to tell him no, and actually moves into Jack.  He moves closer to try and protect the connection between the two of them even though he knows Jack will not like what he is going to hear.

The whole sequence of reunion activities is the key to this section of the movie.  It sets up the ongoing clash of desire and longing with the practical realities of Ennis' ability to step outside his fears and take a chance.  The first section of the movie is anchored by night two in the tent, and the third section of the movie is anchored by their fight on their last day together.  But this sets the whole tone of the movie in a beautiful arc over the span of 5-10 minutes.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ImEnnisShesJack on January 22, 2006, 10:27:54 AM

"Normal" people are going to miss a lot of the imagery.

   Thank God there are no "Normal" people here  ;D

Amen Sistah!

lol.

Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: 909dot on January 22, 2006, 05:38:37 PM


The scene still tears out my heart later when they are on the riverbank and Jack talks about them having a real life together.  Jake delivers that sequence with such beautiful understanding of it.  I love when Ennis gets ready to tell him no, and actually moves into Jack.  He moves closer to try and protect the connection between the two of them even though he knows Jack will not like what he is going to hear.


I just returned from viewing number....no, I'm not going to tell you...to embarrassed...but the scene by the river is so important...when Jack asks Ennis, as he is gazing into the starry sky..."anything new up there in Heaven?..."and Ennis, his look is one of utter peace and all the sorrow of his life is gone for a moment and he is smiling and says..."just sending up a prayer of thanks..." well, I can tell all of you I lost it again....Jack says "for what?" and as usuall, Ennis's brain doesn't let his heart talk and says.."for you forgeting to bring that Harmonica, I'm enjoying the peace and quiet"...I'm sorry but Heath should get the Oscar for that moment...absolutely flawless...his whole body and smile says what a thousand words could not...he is finally in the place and with the person he is supposed to be there with...I think that THIS is Ennis's moment. Jack has the "dozy embrace" by the fire...I think this moment for Ennis out of any other is his  "single moment of artless,charmed happiness..." just blows me away this film....

Todd













































Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Vince on January 22, 2006, 11:10:50 PM

II'm sorry but Heath should get the Oscar for that moment...absolutely flawless...his whole body and smile says what a thousand words could not...he is finally in the place and with the person he is supposed to be there with...I think that THIS is Ennis's moment. Jack has the "dozy embrace" by the fire...I think this moment for Ennis out of any other is his  "single moment of artless,charmed happiness..." just blows me away this film....


That look of intense satisfaction and happiness Ledger brings to this scene is amazing.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Ross:Broken on January 23, 2006, 09:20:01 AM
I think that THIS is Ennis's moment. Jack has the "dozy embrace" by the fire...I think this moment for Ennis out of any other is his  "single moment of artless,charmed happiness..." just blows me away this film....

Todd

Wow, Todd, that is great...I never thought it that way.  This is Ennis' own "dozy embrace," where he feels totally at ease, inhaling every moment of happiness and contentment, the rest of his world is light years away.  I just saw the movie again yesterday and boy, I love this part.  Oh man, here I go again...  :'(
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Ross:Broken on January 23, 2006, 09:34:34 AM
I know I've commented on this scene numerous times, analyised it to the nth degree, frame by frame in some instances.  But I saw the movie [again] Saturday, and this scene gave me another reason to like it.  When Ennis comes down the stairs and hugs Jack, and then they break apart, I'm still absolutely gobsmacked by Jack's eyes going straight to Ennis' mouth and staying there.  Jack doesn't see Ennis look around to see if the coast is clear per se, but when Ennis starts walking him backwards, his hands holding Jack by the collar of his vest....  The look on Jack's face is priceless.  It's open shock and amazement and (fear?).  Right to the point he slams back against the wall and Ennis' mouth comes down on his.

Just perfection.

Lovesit!

I knew there was more than one reason I am on this board all the time.  I love all the little details people point out that elude me during my viewings.  Alerted by ImJackshesEnnis and others, I've been obsessively watching Jack staring at Ennis mouth on one of the French site clips, which I love.  But seeing the movie again yesterday, I finally focused on his OUTRAGEOUS reaction to Ennis' grab-n-kiss.  God, Jake, the look of utter "Am I dreaming?  Pinch me, I must be dreaming" is priceless.  Evertime I see this movie, I appreciate Jake's performance more and more...he is just superb.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Ross:Broken on January 23, 2006, 09:48:23 AM
One little detail that I love from the book is that Ennis has put on his best shirt on the day that Jack arrives Surely Alma must have noticed that there was something out of the ordinary going on!

I suppose it would have been difficult to portray that in the film - it would have needed a bit of dialogue from Alma to comment on it or a bit where Ennis is asking where his best shirt is.

But I just think that it so sweet - dresssing up for his man!

I love that detail in the book.  But Ennis' fidgeting and impatience as he waits for Jack gets the point across just as well for me!

Plus, he does tuck in his nice shirt before running out to his man...so we know he cares!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: 909dot on January 23, 2006, 10:48:30 AM
...and right before they come upstairs to Alma, right before they get in, Ennis wipes his mouth with his sleeve to wipe away any hint of Jack...detail upon detail....

Todd
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Ross:Broken on January 23, 2006, 11:00:19 AM
There is so much to drink in in this scene...so many tiny meaningful details...one reason I cannot WAIT for the DVD.  I love the way the boys are so bug-eyed and jumpy as they are talking to Alma...they cannot WAIT to get to that hotel and finish that kiss.  I remember the first time I saw the movie, I could not BELIEVE that kiss...wow...Ennis, damn!  You bet, indeed!

This is the only movie I have ever seen where, upon walking out of the theater (and after composing myself), I said to my friends, "I cannot wait for this to come out on DVD."
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: crcj on January 23, 2006, 11:25:34 AM
A small deviation in this scene from story to movie seems somewhat important.  Until you really watch the kissing and clutching when they see each other.

Someone already pointed out that in the book, Jack bounds up the stairs and initiates the embrace.  In the movie, Ennis comes running down the stairs, and he initiates the embrace and then initiates the out-of-control passion that has been trapped inside of him for four years.

Why is that nuance important?  In the book, when they are at the motel and are laying with each other talking, Jack asks if Ennis thought they would get back into all this.  He says he didn't and then laughs.  "Hell yes I did.  I red-lined it all the way to get here as fast as I could."  He then asks Ennis again what he thought.  In the book, Ennis is very forth-coming.  He tells Jack about the day four years earlier that they parted.  About nearly vomiting and feeling lost.  He tells Jack, "It took me nearly a year to figure out that I never should have let you out of my sight."

This is such a key moment of the book.  It is suddenly clear to the reader that Ennis and Jack are not just coming back together out of lust.  They both have realized the summer on the mountain was life changing.

In the movie, Ennis mumbles, "I don't know," in answer to the question.  There is no clear connection for the viewer that he was longing for this day and that he recognized the summer on the mountain was so important.

So, the fact Ennis initiates the contact at the bottom of the stairs became critical in my opinion.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: sotoalf on January 23, 2006, 11:46:05 AM
A small deviation in this scene from story to movie seems somewhat important.  Until you really watch the kissing and clutching when they see each other.

Someone already pointed out that in the book, Jack bounds up the stairs and initiates the embrace.  In the movie, Ennis comes running down the stairs, and he initiates the embrace and then initiates the out-of-control passion that has been trapped inside of him for four years.

Why is that nuance important?  In the book, when they are at the motel and are laying with each other talking, Jack asks if Ennis thought they would get back into all this.  He says he didn't and then laughs.  "Hell yes I did.  I red-lined it all the way to get here as fast as I could."  He then asks Ennis again what he thought.  In the book, Ennis is very forth-coming.  He tells Jack about the day four years earlier that they parted.  About nearly vomiting and feeling lost.  He tells Jack, "It took me nearly a year to figure out that I never should have let you out of my sight."

This is such a key moment of the book.  It is suddenly clear to the reader that Ennis and Jack are not just coming back together out of lust.  They both have realized the summer on the mountain was life changing.

In the movie, Ennis mumbles, "I don't know," in answer to the question.  There is no clear connection for the viewer that he was longing for this day and that he recognized the summer on the mountain was so important.

So, the fact Ennis initiates the contact at the bottom of the stairs became critical in my opinion.

True, but we do see Ennis' skittishness as he waits for Jack; and when Jack's truck pulls out the slow smile that snakes across his face  tells us everything we need to know.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: 909dot on January 23, 2006, 12:05:47 PM
A small deviation in this scene from story to movie seems somewhat important.  Until you really watch the kissing and clutching when they see each other.

Someone already pointed out that in the book, Jack bounds up the stairs and initiates the embrace.  In the movie, Ennis comes running down the stairs, and he initiates the embrace and then initiates the out-of-control passion that has been trapped inside of him for four years.

Why is that nuance important?  In the book, when they are at the motel and are laying with each other talking, Jack asks if Ennis thought they would get back into all this.  He says he didn't and then laughs.  "Hell yes I did.  I red-lined it all the way to get here as fast as I could."  He then asks Ennis again what he thought.  In the book, Ennis is very forth-coming.  He tells Jack about the day four years earlier that they parted.  About nearly vomiting and feeling lost.  He tells Jack, "It took me nearly a year to figure out that I never should have let you out of my sight."

This is such a key moment of the book.  It is suddenly clear to the reader that Ennis and Jack are not just coming back together out of lust.  They both have realized the summer on the mountain was life changing.

In the movie, Ennis mumbles, "I don't know," in answer to the question.  There is no clear connection for the viewer that he was longing for this day and that he recognized the summer on the mountain was so important.

So, the fact Ennis initiates the contact at the bottom of the stairs became critical in my opinion.

Also, pay very close attention to Heath Ledgers face during the answring of "how bout you" there are about 20 different answers he gives...and as usual, Ennis cant say what he feels...so "I don't know", the way its delivered... such a mixture of 4 years of feeling for Ennis,,,almost to much for him to comment on... I also think, and its been said before, if Ennis in the movie was as forthcoming as Ennis in the book in this scene, I don't think people would get it that Ennis wouldn't just run off with Jack...

Todd

"...you may be a sinner, but I ain't yet had the opportunity."
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Ross:Broken on January 23, 2006, 12:23:48 PM
A small deviation in this scene from story to movie seems somewhat important.  Until you really watch the kissing and clutching when they see each other.

Someone already pointed out that in the book, Jack bounds up the stairs and initiates the embrace.  In the movie, Ennis comes running down the stairs, and he initiates the embrace and then initiates the out-of-control passion that has been trapped inside of him for four years.

Why is that nuance important?  In the book, when they are at the motel and are laying with each other talking, Jack asks if Ennis thought they would get back into all this.  He says he didn't and then laughs.  "Hell yes I did.  I red-lined it all the way to get here as fast as I could."  He then asks Ennis again what he thought.  In the book, Ennis is very forth-coming.  He tells Jack about the day four years earlier that they parted.  About nearly vomiting and feeling lost.  He tells Jack, "It took me nearly a year to figure out that I never should have let you out of my sight."

This is such a key moment of the book.  It is suddenly clear to the reader that Ennis and Jack are not just coming back together out of lust.  They both have realized the summer on the mountain was life changing.

In the movie, Ennis mumbles, "I don't know," in answer to the question.  There is no clear connection for the viewer that he was longing for this day and that he recognized the summer on the mountain was so important.

So, the fact Ennis initiates the contact at the bottom of the stairs became critical in my opinion.

Very true.  That Ennis takes the initiative with the approach, the embrace and the kiss takes the "place" of the heartfelt confession that got left out of the movie.  It's not just lust and it's not just Jack pursuing Ennis: Ennis has been feeling every bit of love and loss that Jack has in those 4 years.

I didn't realize that Jack initiates the embrace in the book (I'll be buying it this week).  I sure would have loved to have seen Ennis make that "confession" on screen...or call Jack his "little darlin'"...sigh...
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Elin on January 23, 2006, 12:47:45 PM
I love that short intake of breath Ennis makes when he sees Jack through the window. It's so obvious how much Ennis has longed for this moment. He's like a child on Christmas eve.

Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Ross:Broken on January 23, 2006, 12:58:32 PM
I love that short intake of breath Ennis makes when he sees Jack through the window. It's so obvious how much Ennis has longed for this moment. He's like a child on Christmas eve.



You never see that look on his face in any of the other 133 minutes of that film.  It's a one-of-a-kind moment for him.  ;)
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ellye on January 23, 2006, 02:27:23 PM
I have yet to see the film here in England but I've seen as much as there is to offer online (so I half feel like I've seen it!)  and looking earlier today at screen caps from the actual film for the first time (where previously they were just from the LOGO special) I saw something Im curious about, so can someone please enlighten me?

There were three pictures of Ennis in what looked like pyjama bottoms and a vest and he was walking out of a distant room towards the camera (as it were) into a bedroom, sitting on the side of a bed, that's near the door,  back to the camera. Was this the motel room? The walls looked brownish, it wasn't a light room. You don't see anyone else and he could have been at home I suppose, but as I've never seen any mention or pics of this moment I'd like to know what it is! And they were put up near the reunion pics so ... I was just curious.

All I've ever read about the motel room scene is that people say you see them in bed after ... whatever they did! But no one ever mentions them doing anything else in the motel room that involves them being OUT of bed, so that makes me think it must be from somewhere else. In fact it must be from somewhere else cos he wouldn't need anything to wear in bed with Jack!  ;D

So I thought asking was the only way to find out! I'm still curious to know what scene it is.

Also, when they do reunite and they are kissing on the stairwell ... is anything said as they stop the kissing and go upstairs? I think I read somewhere that Ennis says something simple like 'come on' to inidicate they have to go ...  but I just wondered if anything was said about what they were gonna do after seeing Alma? Or is that one of those things never spoken and they just left?

It'll all be so much clearer when I've seen the film for myself!  :)
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: adamblast on January 23, 2006, 02:35:54 PM
ellye, the brief clip you're speaking of--Ennis walking through a doorway wearing pajama bottoms and a tank-top (to use the American vernacular)--occurs in early footage of Ennis and Alma's marriage, right before their first bed scene. He's just put the 2 little girls to bed, and Alma is about to try to talk him into moving.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ellye on January 23, 2006, 02:40:58 PM
ellye, the brief clip you're speaking of--Ennis walking through a doorway wearing pajama bottoms and a tank-top (to use the American vernacular)--occurs in early footage of Ennis and Alma's marriage, right before their first bed scene. He's just put the 2 little girls to bed, and Alma is about to try to talk him into moving.

Thank you.  :)  Must say, from the pics he didn't look too happy so it was more likely to be a scene with Alma rather than Jack - as far as the reunion went, anyway!  :D
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Ross:Broken on January 23, 2006, 02:42:48 PM
I have yet to see the film here in England but I've seen as much as there is to offer online (so I half feel like I've seen it!)  and looking earlier today at screen caps from the actual film for the first time (where previously they were just from the LOGO special) I saw something Im curious about, so can someone please enlighten me?

There were three pictures of Ennis in what looked like pyjama bottoms and a vest and he was walking out of a distant room towards the camera (as it were) into a bedroom, sitting on the side of a bed, that's near the door,  back to the camera. Was this the motel room? The walls looked brownish, it wasn't a light room. You don't see anyone else and he could have been at home I suppose, but as I've never seen any mention or pics of this moment I'd like to know what it is! And they were put up near the reunion pics so ... I was just curious.

All I've ever read about the motel room scene is that people say you see them in bed after ... whatever they did! But no one ever mentions them doing anything else in the motel room that involves them being OUT of bed, so that makes me think it must be from somewhere else. In fact it must be from somewhere else cos he wouldn't need anything to wear in bed with Jack!  ;D

So I thought asking was the only way to find out! I'm still curious to know what scene it is.

Also, when they do reunite and they are kissing on the stairwell ... is anything said as they stop the kissing and go upstairs? I think I read somewhere that Ennis says something simple like 'come on' to inidicate they have to go ...  but I just wondered if anything was said about what they were gonna do after seeing Alma? Or is that one of those things never spoken and they just left?

It'll all be so much clearer when I've seen the film for myself!  :)

Ellye, if you are sure you want all these questions answered before seeing the movie, here goes!

I'm guessing the pyjama bottom pics are from the beginning of a love scene with Alma (I will NOT reveal what happens in that scene!).  Ennis is in his (incredibly cute) pyjama bottoms and a "wifebeater" t-shirt (plain white tank top...I think you call them singlets?).  FYI - He looks extra hot in this scene.

In the reunion scene, there's a lot of kissing, some nuzzling and the "come on" but that's it.  They just know.   :)

I'm excited for you to be seeing the movie...you will love it!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: David on January 23, 2006, 03:19:35 PM
One little detail that I love from the book is that Ennis has put on his best shirt on the day that Jack arrives Surely Alma must have noticed that there was something out of the ordinary going on!

I suppose it would have been difficult to portray that in the film - it would have needed a bit of dialogue from Alma to comment on it or a bit where Ennis is asking where his best shirt is.

But I just think that it so sweet - dresssing up for his man!

What is funny (as another poster has pointed out) is the dialogue where Ennis tells Alma they may be out all night "...when we get to drinkin' and talkin' and all..." since we all know that Ennis is SO talkative.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Ross:Broken on January 23, 2006, 03:34:09 PM
What is funny (as another poster has pointed out) is the dialogue where Ennis tells Alma they may be out all night "...when we get to drinkin' and talkin' and all..." since we all know that Ennis is SO talkative.

I remember reading that a few weeks ago...a great and hilarious observation!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: muse on January 23, 2006, 06:01:31 PM
something that i wish was a little different in the motel scene: i wish they were looking at eachother when they were talking.  now, i love this movie and am not truly complaining. just wondering if anyone else had any ideas about why they don't look at eachother at all  during the whole motel exchange.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Scott88 on January 23, 2006, 06:11:02 PM
Ang's shooting of the scene (up-close, tight shot) emphasized Ennis's own torment.  When he starts going on about how he's "stuck with what [he's] got", Heath captures this brilliantly.  Throughout the film, Ennis is shown to be hesistant in making eye contact.  This would especially be true when he's being honest about the state of his life, as we see here.  Such honesty would make him feel particularly vulnerable.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Dal on January 23, 2006, 07:06:08 PM
I love that short intake of breath Ennis makes when he sees Jack through the window.

"A hot jolt scalded Ennis" says Annie Proulx, and Heath lets you see it.

Dal
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: David on January 23, 2006, 08:13:49 PM
Ang's shooting of the scene (up-close, tight shot) emphasized Ennis's own torment.  When he starts going on about how he's "stuck with what [he's] got", Heath captures this brilliantly.  Throughout the film, Ennis is shown to be hesistant in making eye contact.  This would especially be true when he's being honest about the state of his life, as we see here.  Such honesty would make him feel particularly vulnerable.

Scott, I agree. The look on Ledger's face, when he says "Makin' a livin' is about all I got time for," is astounding. The pain and inner torment are written all over his face...no words are really necessary.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: peteinportland on January 23, 2006, 09:01:05 PM
If I remember correctly, David, he has the hint of tears in his eyes during that line. Plus, he almost rubs poor Jack's arm raw while he is talking.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Ross:Broken on January 23, 2006, 09:10:41 PM
Although his reaction is slightly different, you can see the same pain when Jack talks about the "sweet life" they could have at the fire the next night.  Although Ennis' words are unequivocally dead set against it and leave no room for interpretation, as Jack is describing his vision, Ennis keeps looking off to the side, almost as if he can envision the life Jack is describing...and he keeps looking back, almost to snap himself back to reality, almost as if he fears that if he looks off to the side for too long, he might actually see it and believe it.  Heartbreaking.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: 909dot on January 23, 2006, 09:19:04 PM
If I remember correctly, David, he has the hint of tears in his eyes during that line. Plus, he almost rubs poor Jack's arm raw while he is talking.

True.....Ive never seen an actor express such deep , deep feelings so close up...he hardly speaks, but what his face does gives it away for the audience...like when Jack says "how bout you" and all the pain and frustration of the past 4 years and the joy he feels at that moment fly across Ledgers face like wind whipped clouds... and all he says is " i don't know"...brilliant
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: David on January 23, 2006, 09:27:49 PM
If I remember correctly, David, he has the hint of tears in his eyes during that line. Plus, he almost rubs poor Jack's arm raw while he is talking.

Pete, I think you're right...and I wish you hadn't said that because it's making me tear up too. Ennis is completely at a loss.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: David on January 23, 2006, 09:30:35 PM
Although his reaction is slightly different, you can see the same pain when Jack talks about the "sweet life" they could have at the fire the next night.  Although Ennis' words are unequivocally dead set against it and leave no room for interpretation, as Jack is describing his vision, Ennis keeps looking off to the side, almost as if he can envision the life Jack is describing...and he keeps looking back, almost to snap himself back to reality, almost as if he fears that if he looks off to the side for too long, he might actually see it and believe it.  Heartbreaking.

Ross, I looked for that on one viewing and didn't "get it". But, I'll try again next time.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: petetown on January 24, 2006, 04:05:03 AM
After Ennis says, " There are no reins on this one," Jack reaches over and strokes his cheek. I thought it a bit out of character for them till I realized that Ennis is crying.......
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Ross:Broken on January 24, 2006, 06:42:43 AM
After Ennis says, " There are no reins on this one," Jack reaches over and strokes his cheek. I thought it a bit out of character for them till I realized that Ennis is crying.......

Awww, I love that part...I just love to see any affection between the guys.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: 909dot on January 24, 2006, 09:00:18 AM
After Ennis says, " There are no reins on this one," Jack reaches over and strokes his cheek. I thought it a bit out of character for them till I realized that Ennis is crying.......

I also think that that moment is classic...in the book Ennis has his arm over Jacks leg and Jacks arm is on him...I think that moment couldn't be more IN character for them...

Todd
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Ross:Broken on January 24, 2006, 10:42:08 AM
I think that moment couldn't be more IN character for them...
Todd

I agree...whenever Ennis is hurting, physically or spiritually, Jack comes to his aid with gentle affection and comfort.  Sigh...
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: 909dot on January 24, 2006, 10:56:24 AM
I think that moment couldn't be more IN character for them...
Todd

I agree...whenever Ennis is hurting, physically or spiritually, Jack comes to his aid with gentle affection and comfort.  Sigh...

...sigh indeed...
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: richardL on January 24, 2006, 11:04:01 AM
Not only is the film totally exhausting and consumming .. so is this website ! Thank God (or Dave C and all ) for it at the moment .. I'd go mad otherwise.

The reunion scene was palpable for me watching Ennis drink and smoke .. nervous as hell waiting for J to arrive ( or maybe not arrive) . It's me, whenever I have longingly waited for someone special to arrive, who might and who might not.
In my mind I was begging them not to kiss in case they were spotted .. I was sweating in my seat when they did ... and then she saw. I nearly died.
Rich


Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: sylvia on January 24, 2006, 02:35:28 PM
Kumari, I agree with you up until the time Alma sees them from the doorway.  Then my own heart nearly broke because Alma isn't a bad person and doesn't deserve to get her feelings go through a ringer.  Then again, nobody in the film deserves the pain they've experienced.

I've seen the movie twice now and both times the audience hace laughed when Alma sees them, then the laughter turns to groans of sympathy. I thought Michele Williams' acting in this scene in particular was exceptional. The hurt as she cries into her baby's hair :'(
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Lucee on January 24, 2006, 02:50:27 PM
...and right before they come upstairs to Alma, right before they get in, Ennis wipes his mouth with his sleeve to wipe away any hint of Jack...detail upon detail....

Todd

I took that wipe in a totally different way.  I took as just the instinctive nature of someone to wipe their mouth after a long sloppy kiss, still being swept up in the moment with Jack was kinda fumbling and doing what was automatic, which just added and confirmed what Alma had just seen.

Someone else pointed out his comment of "when we get talkin' and all"  hadn't even thought how out of character that must have sounded to Alma.  We see him talk to others thruout the movie, but never really converse with anyone other than Jack.  So although we know it's a false front at that point, there really is a huge amount of truth behind it.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: petetown on January 24, 2006, 04:18:54 PM
And Ennis, not big on enderaments said what he said to his horses and daughters, little darlin'.
(Not in the movie but such a great line)
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Ross:Broken on January 24, 2006, 04:22:49 PM
And Ennis, not big on enderaments said what he said to his horses and daughters, little darlin'.
(Not in the movie but such a great line)

How I would have LOVED to have seen that in the movie...
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: 909dot on January 24, 2006, 05:09:06 PM
...and right before they come upstairs to Alma, right before they get in, Ennis wipes his mouth with his sleeve to wipe away any hint of Jack...detail upon detail....

Todd

I took that wipe in a totally different way.  I took as just the instinctive nature of someone to wipe their mouth after a long sloppy kiss, still being swept up in the moment with Jack was kinda fumbling and doing what was automatic, which just added and confirmed what Alma had just seen.

Someone else pointed out his comment of "when we get talkin' and all"  hadn't even thought how out of character that must have sounded to Alma.  We see him talk to others thruout the movie, but never really converse with anyone other than Jack.  So although we know it's a false front at that point, there really is a huge amount of truth behind it.

Seems we are on the same page...to wipe away any hint of Jack...to wipe their mouth after a long sloppy kiss...same thing...
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Lucee on January 24, 2006, 05:33:56 PM
...and right before they come upstairs to Alma, right before they get in, Ennis wipes his mouth with his sleeve to wipe away any hint of Jack...detail upon detail....

Todd

I took that wipe in a totally different way.  I took as just the instinctive nature of someone to wipe their mouth after a long sloppy kiss, still being swept up in the moment with Jack was kinda fumbling and doing what was automatic, which just added and confirmed what Alma had just seen.

Someone else pointed out his comment of "when we get talkin' and all"  hadn't even thought how out of character that must have sounded to Alma.  We see him talk to others thruout the movie, but never really converse with anyone other than Jack.  So although we know it's a false front at that point, there really is a huge amount of truth behind it.

Seems we are on the same page...to wipe away any hint of Jack...to wipe their mouth after a long sloppy kiss...same thing...

Ah...ok, I thought you were thinking of it more of a concious movement.....but either way, it definitely adds one of the many subtle touches to the scene like we see throughout the movie.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: muse on January 24, 2006, 06:25:01 PM
And Ennis, not big on enderaments said what he said to his horses and daughters, little darlin'.
(Not in the movie but such a great line)

oh god. agreed. i would have loved to hear it. i am still confused as to why it is nowhere to be found in the film.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: kumari on January 24, 2006, 07:25:11 PM
Not only is the film totally exhausting and consumming .. so is this website ! Thank God (or Dave C and all ) for it at the moment .. I'd go mad otherwise.
The reunion scene was palpable for me watching Ennis drink and smoke .. nervous as hell waiting for J to arrive ( or maybe not arrive) .

I love watching Ennis wait.
When he is sitting by the window smoking, Good Lord, how sexy is that???
I don't usually like blonde guys, I hate cigarettes, the list goes on.
But when they show this clip in the trailer, I can hear my heart pounding.
I feel his anticipation every time.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: DeeGilles on January 24, 2006, 08:53:55 PM
Not only is the film totally exhausting and consumming .. so is this website ! Thank God (or Dave C and all ) for it at the moment .. I'd go mad otherwise.
The reunion scene was palpable for me watching Ennis drink and smoke .. nervous as hell waiting for J to arrive ( or maybe not arrive) .

I love watching Ennis wait.
When he is sitting by the window smoking, Good Lord, how sexy is that???
I don't usually like blonde guys, I hate cigarettes, the list goes on.
But when they show this clip in the trailer, I can hear my heart pounding.
I feel his anticipation every time.


What I like about the scene is Ennis' doggedness.  He obviously waited a long time for Jack.  The way he has one beer, then cut the scene where he's had 4 or 5, obviously tired, and Alma's already given up on Jack, finally feeding AJ dinner.  But still, Ennis is sitting there, waiting for Jack, and immeditely jumps up at the first noise of a truck pulling into the parking lot...so sweet.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Radha on January 24, 2006, 08:54:48 PM
Huge thanks to bluedahlia0212 over at the imdb boards, The reunion scene clip and the second tent scene clip both can be downloaded here:
Reunion:
http://s39.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1FYGG6YQ9NOGL0O6JFI122I1GQ
Second tent scene:
http://s43.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3FA6HONB5HJJR1GCTDJRIIJ93S
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: richardL on January 25, 2006, 01:21:46 AM
''What I like about the scene is Ennis' doggedness.  He obviously waited a long time for Jack.  The way he has one beer, then cut the scene where he's had 4 or 5, obviously tired, and Alma's already given up on Jack, finally feeding AJ dinner.  But still, Ennis is sitting there, waiting for Jack, and immeditely jumps up at the first noise of a truck pulling into the parking lot...so sweet."

I didn't really know about the film too well when I first saw it and up to this point didn't really know if E wanted to see J again .....
This was a pivotal scene for me therefore. It was as though it was happening to me .. and E was waiting for me ... and now I'm in tears again ...
What is happening to me ?
Rich
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: peteinportland on January 25, 2006, 02:53:27 AM
Dee, I counted today. He had six beers while waiting for his little darlin.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: phlmale on January 25, 2006, 04:05:45 AM
And Ennis, not big on enderaments said what he said to his horses and daughters, little darlin'.
(Not in the movie but such a great line)

oh god. agreed. i would have loved to hear it. i am still confused as to why it is nowhere to be found in the film.

in a sense though it is there...a few times in the movie he reaches to stroke Jack's face as he does with his daughter Jenny in the thanksgiving scene..nonverbal "little darlin"...I don't remember seeing that with Alma but I'm not sure about the snowboard scene and whether the gesture came out there as well

Jack did this gesture with Ennis as well.....I've been reflecting back on gestures/words between Jack and Ennis that then are used by Ennis later with others as he learns (or at least tries) to open himself up to others.  classic was "Ennis,......Del Mar" while meeting Cassie..at least he learned to say his last name without the prompt as with Jack.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ellye on January 25, 2006, 05:41:19 AM
And Ennis, not big on enderaments said what he said to his horses and daughters, little darlin'.
(Not in the movie but such a great line)
When they're in the motel and Jack says softly, "Brokeback got us good ..." does he end with 'darlin'?
Cos it sounds like he says, "Brokeback got us good, darlin'" and I don't recall anyone mentioning this anywhere - though I might have just missed it! It certainly sounded like it anyway, after a few listens.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ImEnnisShesJack on January 25, 2006, 06:07:08 AM
Dee, I counted today. He had six beers while waiting for his little darlin.

omg. Pete.  I bow to you.  THAT is the [current] epitome of obsessive.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ImEnnisShesJack on January 25, 2006, 06:07:56 AM
Huge thanks to bluedahlia0212 over at the imdb boards, The reunion scene clip and the second tent scene clip both can be downloaded here:
Reunion:
http://s39.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1FYGG6YQ9NOGL0O6JFI122I1GQ
Second tent scene:
http://s43.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3FA6HONB5HJJR1GCTDJRIIJ93S


Is there some trick to this???  I downloaded several scenes from yousendit and I can't get any of the half a dozen media players on my computer to play them.  :( :(
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: happycamper on January 25, 2006, 06:49:52 AM
in a sense though it is there...a few times in the movie he reaches to stroke Jack's face as he does with his daughter Jenny in the thanksgiving scene..nonverbal "little darlin"...I don't remember seeing that with Alma but I'm not sure about the snowboard scene and whether the gesture came out there as well

Jack did this gesture with Ennis as well.....I've been reflecting back on gestures/words between Jack and Ennis that then are used by Ennis later with others as he learns (or at least tries) to open himself up to others.  classic was "Ennis,......Del Mar" while meeting Cassie..at least he learned to say his last name without the prompt as with Jack.
I noticed the Cassie parallel, but not the Thanksgiving scene. Thanks for pointing that out...
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: 909dot on January 25, 2006, 07:32:05 AM
And Ennis, not big on enderaments said what he said to his horses and daughters, little darlin'.
(Not in the movie but such a great line)
When they're in the motel and Jack says softly, "Brokeback got us good ..." does he end with 'darlin'?
Cos it sounds like he says, "Brokeback got us good, darlin'" and I don't recall anyone mentioning this anywhere - though I might have just missed it! It certainly sounded like it anyway, after a few listens.

"Brokeback got us good, don't it..?" is the line...
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: sydney on January 25, 2006, 07:41:19 AM
 
Quote
"Brokeback got us good, don't it..?" is the line...
Quote


All this time I thought Jack had whispered "Brokeback sounds good, don't it" because the 2 of them had gone off to Brokeback for a few days, telling Alma they were goin' fishin'. Oh well, I guess my hearing problem has gotten worse.
Sydney
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Radha on January 25, 2006, 07:50:41 AM
Huge thanks to bluedahlia0212 over at the imdb boards, The reunion scene clip and the second tent scene clip both can be downloaded here:
Reunion:
http://s39.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1FYGG6YQ9NOGL0O6JFI122I1GQ
Second tent scene:
http://s43.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3FA6HONB5HJJR1GCTDJRIIJ93S


Is there some trick to this???  I downloaded several scenes from yousendit and I can't get any of the half a dozen media players on my computer to play them.  :( :(

I think you have to download codec...I tried looking for the original post out there, looks like the post got deleted. Did you try opening them with Windows Media Player? If so, what error does it give you?
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: helen_uk on January 25, 2006, 07:59:02 AM
I played them on Windows Media Player.  It flashed up a codec error, I cursed, and then it played!

Perhaps a bit of cursing is needed!  :D
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: sotoalf on January 25, 2006, 11:11:36 AM
I think you have to download codec...I tried looking for the original post out there, looks like the post got deleted. Did you try opening them with Windows Media Player? If so, what error does it give you?

I still can't get it to work, and I have Window Media Player, Quick Time...suggestions?
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: plc on January 25, 2006, 11:30:59 AM
I have Divx which I downloaded for free from their website.  You also have to be sure to download the AC3 audio codec or it won't play the sound.

If you try to play it in windows media player it plays it upside down.  Good for laughs.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Vicky0uk on January 25, 2006, 01:25:31 PM
Ah, I got it without sound. I'll download the audio codec.

Mind you, watching the reunion scene  without sound when they meet Alma...........it really shows how much all three actors were conveying through face and gesture. Ennis still excited, almost desperate to leave, Jack slightly stunned by the turn of events (but not displeased!).

Marvellous
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ellye on January 25, 2006, 01:49:36 PM
Ah, I got it without sound. I'll download the audio codec.

Mind you, watching the reunion scene  without sound when they meet Alma...........it really shows how much all three actors were conveying through face and gesture. Ennis still excited, almost desperate to leave, Jack slightly stunned by the turn of events (but not displeased!).

Marvellous

Before I saw the film for the first time last night, (it took me 5 hours to get through the film I kept rewatching so many scenes!  :) )  for some reason I was under the impression that Jack almost expected to react like he did when seeing Ennis again, but after seeing the Reunion scene all the way through, the word that jumped to mind, where Jack's reacion was concerned, was 'shellshocked'! Like it was the last thing he expected, to feel so much for Ennis after 4 years, and having watched the scene upteen times, you realise Ennis was the same!  :)

Before I saw this scene I'd asked on here if anything was said about what was to come afterwards and I was told no, and all Ennis said was 'come on' (to going to see Alma) ... but listening to it over headphones, it's very clear in the bit where they are trying to tear themselves apart and go and see Alma - specially Ennis who seemed loathe to stop touching Jack! ... Ennis clearly says, when Jack put a hand to the side of Ennis's face and Ennis moves it: "later" ... before he moves away. I didn't actually hear 'come on' but I defintely heard him say 'later' which said everything in one word, as to what they WILL be doing 'later'!  :)

And I love the way Ennis is so breatheless when he's talking to Alma!  ;D
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: 909dot on January 25, 2006, 01:57:04 PM
Ah, I got it without sound. I'll download the audio codec.

Mind you, watching the reunion scene  without sound when they meet Alma...........it really shows how much all three actors were conveying through face and gesture. Ennis still excited, almost desperate to leave, Jack slightly stunned by the turn of events (but not displeased!).

Marvellous

Before I saw the film for the first time last night, (it took me 5 hours to get through the film I kept rewatching so many scenes!  :) )  for some reason I was under the impression that Jack almost expected to react like he did when seeing Ennis again, but after seeing the Reunion scene all the way through, the word that jumped to mind, where Jack's reacion was concerned, was 'shellshocked'! Like it was the last thing he expected, to feel so much for Ennis after 4 years, and having watched the scene upteen times, you realise Ennis was the same!  :)

Before I saw this scene I'd asked on here if anything was said about what was to come afterwards and I was told no, and all Ennis said was 'come on' (to going to see Alma) ... but listening to it over headphones, it's very clear in the bit where they are trying to tear themselves apart and go and see Alma - specially Ennis who seemed loathe to stop touching Jack! ... Ennis clearly says, when Jack put a hand to the side of Ennis's face and Ennis moves it: "later" ... before he moves away. I didn't actually hear 'come on' but I defintely heard him say 'later' which said everything in one word, as to what they WILL be doing 'later'!  :)

And I love the way Ennis is so breatheless when he's talking to Alma!  ;D

Ennis says "come 'ear" as he is pusing Jack up againt the wall the first time...
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ellye on January 25, 2006, 03:33:53 PM
Ennis says "come 'ear" as he is pusing Jack up againt the wall the first time...
Quote



Nope, didn't hear that one, either! It's funny how some people hear one thing and other people hear another - or nothing at all!

I keep reading that all Jack says in tent night two is softly 'it's alright' but before he draws Ennis down on the floor, he looks him in the eye, gives a little nod and to me he clearly says 'it's okay' - not 'it's alright'

And if I can just throw a question in, after seeing the film for the first time .... Why does Jack's 'I wish I knew how to quit you' in the film, sound totally different to what it sounds like in the trailers?! It's a lot quieter in the film. In the trailer he says it louder and more forcefully.

Why is so much that's seen and/or heard in the trailers either different or not even IN the film?! Isn't there some law against misleading people who expect to see whatever is in the trailers  ... in the film?!  :)

And ... sorry. I don't know how to make a proper quote box that only shows the quote I'm responding to!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Ross:Broken on January 25, 2006, 03:48:13 PM
And if I can just throw a question in, after seeing the film for the first time .... Why does Jack's 'I wish I knew how to quit you' in the film, sound totally different to what it sounds like in the trailers?! It's a lot quieter in the film. In the trailer he says it louder and more forcefully.

Why is so much that's seen and/or heard in the trailers either different or not even IN the film?! Isn't there some law against misleading people who expect to see whatever is in the trailers  ... in the film?!  :)

I've noticed that too and it's a bit of a sore point for me.  The reading in the trailer is louder, almost melodramatic...definitely not the one in the movie.  I'm not sure what's happening in the UK, but here in the States, the line has become quite the punchline for late-night talk show hosts, comedy skits, everything.  Part of the reason, I think, is the overly dramatic way the line is delivered in the trailer!  If the trailer sounded like the movie, I do not think people would have seized upon it as a source of ridicule the way they have.

Regarding trailers, usually movie studios put together trailers long before the movie has gone to a final edit...hence what they put in the trailer may not make it into the movie.  If you notice, the trailer has a shot of a shirtless Jack standing on a bridge and a shot of the boys sitting next to each other in a truck...I do not believe either of these shots appear in the final film (additionally, the US trailer has a shot of two scary looking guys who might do our guys harm...they never appear in the movie either).

Sometimes, just after watching a movie on DVD, I'll watch the theatrical trailer and more than HALF of what's in the trailer never made it into the movie!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ellye on January 25, 2006, 05:44:34 PM
And if I can just throw a question in, after seeing the film for the first time .... Why does Jack's 'I wish I knew how to quit you' in the film, sound totally different to what it sounds like in the trailers?! It's a lot quieter in the film. In the trailer he says it louder and more forcefully.

Why is so much that's seen and/or heard in the trailers either different or not even IN the film?! Isn't there some law against misleading people who expect to see whatever is in the trailers  ... in the film?!  :)

I've noticed that too and it's a bit of a sore point for me.  The reading in the trailer is louder, almost melodramatic...definitely not the one in the movie.  I'm not sure what's happening in the UK, but here in the States, the line has become quite the punchline for late-night talk show hosts, comedy skits, everything.  Part of the reason, I think, is the overly dramatic way the line is delivered in the trailer!  If the trailer sounded like the movie, I do not think people would have seized upon it as a source of ridicule the way they have.

Regarding trailers, usually movie studios put together trailers long before the movie has gone to a final edit...hence what they put in the trailer may not make it into the movie.  If you notice, the trailer has a shot of a shirtless Jack standing on a bridge and a shot of the boys sitting next to each other in a truck...I do not believe either of these shots appear in the final film (additionally, the US trailer has a shot of two scary looking guys who might do our guys harm...they never appear in the movie either).

Sometimes, just after watching a movie on DVD, I'll watch the theatrical trailer and more than HALF of what's in the trailer never made it into the movie!

Another very noticeable one when I saw the film was when Jack says "It's nobodys business but ours" They obviously just used a different take in the trailer to the film. In the trailer he says it looking straight ahead, in the film he's looking down to the ground.

And of course you're right about the omissions from the film you mentioned. There's that line about working together, drinking together from Jack, that isn't in the film, either.

And I rewatched the Reunion scene (such hardship!) to listen out, and yes, there is a definite rumble of "c'm 'ere" from Ennis before he pushes Jack back against the wall! I obviously missed it previously when I heard the 'later' because most of these things ARE said in either a quiet rumble or a quiet whisper!  :)
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: plc on January 25, 2006, 06:56:17 PM
COMPLETELY UNFAIR!

With the download links from earlier in this thread for the reunion scene and the 2nd tent scene (my two favorite, next to the final argument with the dozy embrace) - THE SECOND NIGHT IN THE TENT IS INCOMPLETE.

It cuts off right when Ennis approaches the tent.  Is it just my download or is anybody else's like that too?

Talk about leaving you hanging! robbed!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Radha on January 25, 2006, 08:06:07 PM
COMPLETELY UNFAIR!

With the download links from earlier in this thread for the reunion scene and the 2nd tent scene (my two favorite, next to the final argument with the dozy embrace) - THE SECOND NIGHT IN THE TENT IS INCOMPLETE.

It cuts off right when Ennis approaches the tent.  Is it just my download or is anybody else's like that too?

Talk about leaving you hanging! robbed!

Plc,
I can email it to you. Whats your ID ?
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Scoutjr on January 25, 2006, 09:18:38 PM
Radha,
Just wanted to say thanks for those links. Now does anyone have the first tent scene?  ;)

Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: plc on January 25, 2006, 09:21:08 PM
THANKS!  email is promasallc at yahoo
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: sylvia on January 26, 2006, 04:44:51 AM
Ah, I got it without sound. I'll download the audio codec.

Mind you, watching the reunion scene  without sound when they meet Alma...........it really shows how much all three actors were conveying through face and gesture. Ennis still excited, almost desperate to leave, Jack slightly stunned by the turn of events (but not displeased!).

Marvellous

I got it without sound too, how do you rectfy that?
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: neatfreak on January 26, 2006, 05:28:45 AM
I've got a Mac, and I can't get sound either, after downloading every codec on the Quicktime support site. Any suggestions from Mac wizards?
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: plc on January 26, 2006, 06:00:33 AM
USE DIVX!

DivX is best.

But be sure to dowload the AC3 audio codec too or you won't get sound on that either.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: sylvia on January 26, 2006, 08:58:40 AM
USE DIVX!

DivX is best.

But be sure to dowload the AC3 audio codec too or you won't get sound on that either.

A£ audio codec?? It's all gibberish to me? How do I download audio codec?
Please help! I want to hear the sound!
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: SquallCloud on January 26, 2006, 09:24:29 AM
it's a lovely acting moment from Gyllenhaal – one of the few times in his and Ennis' sad relationship in which the reality matched his dreaming. The devastation in his eyes ("I can't believe he loves me," they seem to say) when Ennis pulls away after the kiss is so heartbreaking.

For me the attempts and the final break away are more passionate than the initial grabbing. When Ennis/Heath grabs Jack/Jake it kinda looks like their head butting each other but the slow seperation preceeded by Alma's POV are more intimate and beautiful and it looks like kissing, not fighting.

I'm just so in awe of Jake's ability to commit. I noticed that whith him in all of his roles. He doesn't seem to process stuff. He's very method. On "The Good Girl" commentary they said he broke a door in the writer's house during an audition because he threw a chair. He just finds the emotion of the scene and goes for it.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Radha on January 26, 2006, 11:22:18 AM
Radha,
Just wanted to say thanks for those links. Now does anyone have the first tent scene?  ;)



scoutjr ,
I'll email it to you when I get home sometime tonight. Give me your email ID.  At work right now....
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Radha on January 26, 2006, 11:37:42 AM
THANKS!  email is promasallc at yahoo

plc,
Will email the scene to you tonight after I get off work....
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Scoutjr on January 26, 2006, 11:40:06 AM
Quote

scoutjr ,
I'll email it to you when I get home sometime tonight. Give me your email ID.  At work right now....
Quote

You rock! Thanks.  :)

Here it is:

victoria1147@yahoo.com
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Radha on January 26, 2006, 11:51:44 AM
I know we read in an interview with Jake that he'd has his nose almost broken from shooting this scene.
But when I watch this scene, I actually think Jake was the one being more aggresive - moreso than Heath.
Also, I loved Jake's reaction to the initial kiss. When they break apart for the first time, the camera is focussed on Jake, his eyes kind of slowly open and his eyes all dark blue and intensely focused on Ennis's face ,all the while clenching his hands on Ennis's face, and  you can see his expression change from a daze to something overwhelming and raw like a force comes over him and then he slams Ennis hard (real hard) against the wall..Loved every second of it.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: happycamper on January 26, 2006, 11:55:40 AM
Two other nice things about this scene. In the film Ennis has a t-shirt on under his best shirt and it gets really stretched from how hard they are grabbing each other. In the story, when they go upstairs to meet Alma, Jack is "trembling like a run-out horse."
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Ross:Broken on January 26, 2006, 11:59:27 AM
I know we read in an interview with Jake that he'd has his nose almost broken from shooting this scene.
But when I watch this scene, I actually think Jake was the one being more aggresive - moreso than Heath.
Also, I loved Jake's reaction to the initial kiss. When they break apart for the first time, the camera is focussed on Jake, his eyes kind of slowly open and his eyes all dark blue and intensely focused on Ennis's face ,all the while clenching his hands on Ennis's face, and  you can see his expression change from a daze to something overwhelming and raw like a force comes over him and then he slams Ennis hard (real hard) against the wall..Loved every second of it.

I could watch this scene a thousand times and not get tired of it.  The first time I saw it, I think I almost fainted.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: neatfreak on January 26, 2006, 03:14:26 PM
USE DIVX!

DivX is best.

But be sure to dowload the AC3 audio codec too or you won't get sound on that either.

OK, I've tried VLC and DivX. But there is no Mac version of AC3. And I still have no sound! Anyone else?
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Scoutjr on January 26, 2006, 06:20:05 PM
Radha,
Just wanted to say thanks for those links. Now does anyone have the first tent scene?  ;)



scoutjr ,
I'll email it to you when I get home sometime tonight. Give me your email ID.  At work right now....

Thank you!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: neatfreak on January 26, 2006, 07:02:00 PM
Reaper, thank you! Any other Mac users, download the component and drag it into your Library/Quicktime folder. Voila: sound!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Babs on January 26, 2006, 07:59:52 PM
Hi all....believe it or not BBM finally came to my town after a long and agonizing month and a half! After trying my hardest not to lurk on any boards before seeing the movie, I'm so glad I found this one to catch up on all these great posts I've been missing.

Have to comment on this thread first cause this scene was definately one of my favorites. I felt so blindsided by that kiss and exchange of looks....so completely took my breath away....can't remember the last movie I've seen where there was such an expression of total hunger....Jake's eyes locked on Ennis' lips.....dinner time!

Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: peteinportland on January 26, 2006, 08:35:52 PM
Babs, we are glad you found us! Welcome.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: DeeGilles on January 26, 2006, 09:04:57 PM
Dee, I counted today. He had six beers while waiting for his little darlin.

omg. Pete. I bow to you. THAT is the [current] epitome of obsessive.


LOL!!!! I just saw the movie again and I counted too!  4 on the front table, 2 on the side table, and one in his hand.  Now THAT'S obsessive!!!! Somebody stop me.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: alma on January 26, 2006, 09:15:03 PM
Have to comment on this thread first cause this scene was definately one of my favorites. I felt so blindsided by that kiss and exchange of looks....so completely took my breath away....can't remember the last movie I've seen where there was such an expression of total hunger....Jake's eyes locked on Ennis' lips.....dinner time!

Me too. I was totally unprepared for how sexy this kiss was! Blew me away.

I think it was mind bending to see passion expressed by guys - both with such force.

When they had to break apart and go upstairs, they really carried the electrical current in their faces and body postures didn't they? I was especially cognizant of Jake's heavy breathing that he tried to control to say hello to Alma. It was like the wind was completely sucked out of both of them from the kiss and it was all they could do to stand upright (though neither of them really did).

Sigh.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: chaya on January 26, 2006, 09:27:17 PM
Quote

I just returned from viewing number....no, I'm not going to tell you...to embarrassed...but the scene by the river is so important...when Jack asks Ennis, as he is gazing into the starry sky..."anything new up there in Heaven?..."and Ennis, his look is one of utter peace and all the sorrow of his life is gone for a moment and he is smiling and says..."just sending up a prayer of thanks..." well, I can tell all of you I lost it again....Jack says "for what?" and as usuall, Ennis's brain doesn't let his heart talk and says.."for you forgeting to bring that Harmonica, I'm enjoying the peace and quiet"...I'm sorry but Heath should get the Oscar for that moment...absolutely flawless...his whole body and smile says what a thousand words could not...he is finally in the place and with the person he is supposed to be there with...I think that THIS is Ennis's moment. Jack has the "dozy embrace" by the fire...I think this moment for Ennis out of any other is his  "single moment of artless,charmed happiness..." just blows me away this film....

Todd
Quote

You're right, this is Ennis' moment of pure happiness. This is also one of the very few times that Ennis is physically so exposed and relaxed, laying on his back, looking staight up into the sky. The only other times I remember him being on his back are when he's in an intimate situation w/ Jack.   ;)  And when he answers Jack that no, they can't be together, he returns to a sitting position, puts his hat back on, he's looking down and away from Jack as he talks, and the old Ennis is back.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: chaya on January 26, 2006, 09:38:20 PM
something that i wish was a little different in the motel scene: i wish they were looking at eachother when they were talking.  now, i love this movie and am not truly complaining. just wondering if anyone else had any ideas about why they don't look at eachother at all  during the whole motel exchange.

I think it's Ennis, still not totally comfortable being face-to-face with Jack in such an intimate setting. It's just so difficult for him to let down his defenses. It also reinforces the idea that he's not ready to "face" their situation, to make any changes in his life for Jack.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: chaya on January 26, 2006, 09:42:19 PM
Dee, I counted today. He had six beers while waiting for his little darlin.

omg. Pete. I bow to you. THAT is the [current] epitome of obsessive.

LOL!!!! I just saw the movie again and I counted too!  4 on the front table, 2 on the side table, and one in his hand.  Now THAT'S obsessive!!!! Somebody stop me.

I love the part where he takes a drag off of his cigarette and immediately downs some beer. He coughs and just about spits it all out. He's a mess of nerves and anticipation!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: brokebackLJ on January 26, 2006, 10:43:56 PM
I watched this scene, and only this scene last night, and I cried.
It was so beautiful to see them re connect after four years. What was even more beautiful was how Jack expected to just say "Hi friend" and hug and go off. Ennis is the one who grabs him and throws him against the wall...the look on Jack's face, at that point (and my icon) changes to this expression of pure passion, sadness, excitment, joy...everything. His expression epitomizes the movie for me. He sees, I think, that Ennis is madly in love with him, like Jack is. And he doesn't have to pretend anymore. He realized it for the first time...
I've said this a few times before, and will say it here, Ennis is the first man in Jack's life to accept him and love him for who he is, not who he pretends to be. That's such a god damn beautiful thing.
I'm sure it's been said before, but damn it, it shakes my soul.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: peteinportland on January 27, 2006, 12:32:14 AM
Dee, I forgot about the one in his hand!!  :D

Brokebacklj, I haven't been teary eyed for a couple of days. What cha trying to do to me, eh? Your icon is BOOTEFUL...that look on Jack's face.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: richardL on January 27, 2006, 12:56:01 AM
Hey BrokebackLJ .. I've just read yr post and I'm in floods again too.
Rich
 
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: aceygirl on January 27, 2006, 09:12:36 AM

I've said this a few times before, and will say it here, Ennis is the first man in Jack's life to accept him and love him for who he is, not who he pretends to be. That's such a god damn beautiful thing.


And even more visa versa--Jack is the first and maybe only person in Ennis's life who fully accepts him for who he is...and in return, Ennis can truly be himself--dry humor, physicality, and warts and bumps and fears.

I thought it was a strong acting/directing choice to have Ennis, even in his joy, look around nervously before planting one on Jack. But personally, I prefer the way the book describes it--the "hot jolt" and Ennis being so impulsively joyous to see Jack that he even actually gets caught by Alma. However, I can see where it made sense for the Heath version of Ennis.

Even better than the kissing is afterwards, when we see Ennis struggle to regain control of himself, clutching Jack's head lovingly, then having to get ready to introduce to Alma....and that brief polite exchange about sons and daughters when they're probably trying to hide their, er...excitement.. ;D

It makes it almost all the harder to watch Alma's pain and shock, because it's such a contrast to the happiness of the reunion...*sigh* just like life--always mottled with conflict.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: 909dot on January 27, 2006, 09:14:00 AM
something that i wish was a little different in the motel scene: i wish they were looking at eachother when they were talking.  now, i love this movie and am not truly complaining. just wondering if anyone else had any ideas about why they don't look at eachother at all  during the whole motel exchange.

I think it's Ennis, still not totally comfortable being face-to-face with Jack in such an intimate setting. It's just so difficult for him to let down his defenses. It also reinforces the idea that he's not ready to "face" their situation, to make any changes in his life for Jack.

   Don't forget that Ennis is in a very submissive position in the motel scene...being cradled by Jack, laying on Jacks chest, Jack being higher, more dominant...arm protectivly around Ennis... Ennis rubbing his arm...I think it shows how comfortable he is...how gloriously right everything is when he is around Jack...like when he pulls Jack on top of him in the second tent scene...theres nobody for Ennis but Jack...and every time Jack speaks about them both, he turns his head to take in the smell of Ennis and to rub his face in his hair...ok, I gotta stop... ;)

Todd
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: martinzp on January 27, 2006, 09:48:31 AM
Hello to all of you guys !!

Is it possible to get a copy of the first night inside the tent ?
You may send it to my e-mail address:
martinz1964@yahoo.com

Thanks a lot in advance !!!!!!!!!!!

THANKS!  email is promasallc at yahoo

plc,
Will email the scene to you tonight after I get off work....
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Radha on January 27, 2006, 10:15:12 AM
Hello to all of you guys !!

Is it possible to get a copy of the first night inside the tent ?
You may send it to my e-mail address:
martinz1964@yahoo.com

Thanks a lot in advance !!!!!!!!!!!

Martin,
Will email it to you tonight...
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: martinzp on January 27, 2006, 12:19:45 PM
I really appreciate your help Radha.
You are such a cool guy. Thanks a lot!



Hello to all of you guys !!

Is it possible to get a copy of the first night inside the tent ?
You may send it to my e-mail address:
martinz1964@yahoo.com

Thanks a lot in advance !!!!!!!!!!!

Martin,
Will email it to you tonight...
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Danny on January 27, 2006, 12:20:35 PM
I HAD NOT REALLY PUT MY FINGER ON EXACTLY but then I read this on the Oprah Winfree message board.  I of course found Jake and Heath ATTRACTIVE as many people on here but that was about it.... and here is why....

"For example, in a Hollywood film in which Brad and Angelina strip down and do it for 20 seconds (a long time) in front of a fireplace or a lot of candles, you may be wishing you were with Brad, or wishing you were with Angelina. In "Brokeback Mountain," even though I find both actors attractive, I never for a single moment wanted Jack or Ennis to be with anybody on earth but one another. That's the film's accomplishment." 

and I repeat:   I never for a single moment wanted Jack or Ennis to be with anybody on earth but one another. That's the film's accomplishment."   
 
 
 
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Radha on January 27, 2006, 12:22:04 PM
I really appreciate your help Radha.
You are such a cool guy. Thanks a lot!

Thanks, Martin. Make that a cool "gal".... :)
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: DeeGilles on January 27, 2006, 04:58:33 PM
Quote

I just returned from viewing number....no, I'm not going to tell you...to embarrassed...



No, tell us, tell us!  Be proud.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: 909dot on January 27, 2006, 06:16:15 PM
Quote

I just returned from viewing number....no, I'm not going to tell you...to embarrassed...



No, tell us, tell us!  Be proud.

ok...11!!! no movie has EVER effected me the way this one has...it is indeed life altering...the way art should be

Proud Todd
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: aevkc on January 27, 2006, 06:23:31 PM
Okay, Todd, I'm so jealous!  I just played hooky from work yesterday afternoon to see it for the third time and I'm already anxious to see it again.  I feel like I could see it once a day and still want to see it again.  And usually I get bored easily, but not with this story.  So anyway, be proud, we're all jealous!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Ross:Broken on January 27, 2006, 06:25:22 PM
I'm totally jealous!  I've only seen it three times. 

Please don't question my devotion to this movie.  :-*
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: muse on January 27, 2006, 08:01:15 PM
i love it! going for number 4 this weekend. i am so excited. i had to pace myself a bit since number 3.

sometimes in the middle of the day i think about how it is playing on numerous movie screens around me AT THAT MOMENT and i just want to run to one! i need help!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: javasea on January 27, 2006, 08:39:04 PM
this my favourite scene also...itssss sooo reall....i even can feel how anxious ennis and how excited he  is when he see jack again.....great great...

the flaw...is alma who catch their kiss...is it good for story ? but i think its important for story line
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: cythera4 on January 28, 2006, 12:44:37 AM
What I want to know is: do you think Ennis is conscious of physically wanting Jack *before* he takes him in his arms? I mean, he clearly knows it *unconsciously*--what with all his figeting, chain-smoking, hungrily waiting for the sound of Jack's truck. But does he know he really wants him before they're in each other arms and he can smell the boy again and feel all he's surrendered for four long years?
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: crcj on January 28, 2006, 05:02:28 AM
This scene gets better every time I see the movie.  The sheer power of their love and longing is amazing.

I am not sure that Ennis knew how overpowering it would be to be physically close to Jack again.  I do think he absolutely knew they would be physically intimate together.  He shows this right away when Alma tells him about the postcard and when Ennis finally explains who Jack is he tells her a complete lie.  He makes a conscious decision that something is going to happen and he has to start keeping it from his wife.  After all, telling her they worked togehter one summer was a perfectly acceptable thing.  What did she really care.  But being "fishing buddies" immediately opened the possibility to getting away together without trying to explain how an old work friend was suddenly showing up.

I don't think he expected the passion right there outside his own front door.  I do think it hit him hard and quick, and we immediately see Ennis looking quickly around the area because he realizes he cannot wait a moment longer.  He is swept up in the joy, and that would have been foreign to him.

The contradictions in the scene are more powerful the more you watch as well.  Ennis leaves the kids at the supermarket because he has to go to his work and cannot afford to piss off his boss.  Jack shows up and Alma asks about work.  Suddenly, the boss owes Ennis, he worked through a blizzard last winter.  The irony was very apparent.

As many have pointed out, Ennis' whole energy level changes and he basically pushes his whole life into the background.  He is so focused on being with Jack, his wife and kids just disappear.  And they continue to do that for most of the movie.  When Jack re-appears, everything else fades.

I do laugh every time at the "when we get to drinking and talking" line everyone has pointed out.  It is so out of character and would have made the emotional trauma all the harder for Alma.  Not only is it obvious he is using this as an excuse to stay out all night with Jack, but it is also clear that he can actually talk to Jack in a way he never has talked to his wife.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: sylvia on January 28, 2006, 08:26:01 AM
I really appreciate your help Radha.
You are such a cool guy. Thanks a lot!

Thanks, Martin. Make that a cool "gal".... :)

Radha, you couldn't be a cool gal and email it to me too could you ::)
Thanks in anticipation!
katecaton@tiscali.co.uk
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: cythera4 on January 28, 2006, 01:03:37 PM
crcj, that is a completely convincing analysis. You're so perceptive about how Ennis's attitudes about work and family pressures shift immediately when Jack reappears. I think from the first moment he got the postcard he was thinking maybe they could be together physically again. Even the way that scene is shot: he turns away from Alma and we see him reading the words to himself, as if he's talking now to Jack and all the rest of his life is suddenly behind him and less important. I don't think he thought just touching Jack again would overwhelm him like it does, but he was pretty clearly scheming, more or less consciously, on reigniting what they had together. The return letter he sends--"You Bet"--says it all.

God, I can't believe how deep the movie is. I've seen it 4 times now and keep catching little moments. The acting is so subtle and the direction so delicate. I was concerned before I saw it the first time either that it would be too discreet and evasive or else too baldly melodramatic and drippy. What's amazing is how truthfully and powerfully it tells the story.

I somehow have to figure out how to stop being obsessed with this movie. I almost cancelled a poker night with friends last night to see it again. And when they started talking about the movie among themselves, I had to bite my tongue for fear they'd think I've gone loopy. I'm a little worried that when it comes out on DVD I may never leave the house again.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Lucee on January 28, 2006, 03:06:40 PM
I am not sure that Ennis knew how overpowering it would be to be physically close to Jack again.  I do think he absolutely knew they wouldbe physically intimate together.  He shows this right away when Alma tells him about the postcard and when Ennis finally explains who Jack is he tells her a complete lie.  He makes a conscious decision that something is going to happen and he has to start keeping it from his wife.  After all, telling her they worked togehter one summer was a perfectly acceptable thing.  What did she really care.  But being "fishing buddies" immediately opened the possibility to getting away together without trying to explain how an old work friend was suddenly showing up.

So the "fishin' buddies" thing has me wondering a bit.  After their summer on Brokeback Ennis obviously returns to Alma.  Did he never mention that someone was working with him?  Or did he give Jack a different name so he wouldn't have to acknowlege what happened or acknowledge that he missed him?  Even with Ennis being so untalkative I can't imagine Alma never asking about how or who he spent the summer with. 

Also, did Alma never ask Ennis anymore questions on how he and Jack met and became "fishin' buddies"?  If they were planning on getting married at 19, they have to have been dating for at least some amount of time so it's not like he had all this time in the world to develop friendships she might know nothing about. 

Or maybe I'm missing the context of the time and place the movie is set and did women just not ask their husbands/boyfriends, etc about who they hung out with, where they went, what they did?  Maybe I'm just to damn inquistive for my own good ;)
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ellye on January 28, 2006, 04:00:43 PM

I somehow have to figure out how to stop being obsessed with this movie. I almost cancelled a poker night with friends last night to see it again. And when they started talking about the movie among themselves, I had to bite my tongue for fear they'd think I've gone loopy. I'm a little worried that when it comes out on DVD I may never leave the house again.

Yes, prepare yourself! I've got it on DVD and it's all I watch! I did a seperate DVD of my favourite scenes from it which I watch over and over again,  and between that and just watching the whole film through, depending on my mood,  I barely get anything else done!

I do love the scene where Ennis looks at the card, turning his back on Alma and mouthing all the words Jack wrote. The look on his face says a lot. it's almost glowing at the anticipation of seeing Jack again!  :)

And I personally don't think either of them expected to feel the way they did when they actually held each other. Jack certainly didn't expect Ennis to act like he did, he looks totally shellshocked from when he's first grabbed, to when they try to pull themselves together to go in to see Alma. I think that was partly from Ennis's reaction and his own emotions. You feel breathless almost just watching THEM breathless trying to compose themselves!

The awkwardness when they are talking to Alma is almost endearing. You can tell by the glances between them they'd rather be somewhere else, alone. And Ennis couldn't get out fast enough. Alma could see it as well and knew why. No wonder she looked like her world had fallen apart.

The motel scene says a lot about Ennis as well. Mr Repressed .... but totally at ease lying naked in bed in the arms of another man he's just had sex with!  :)

I just love the whole reunion scene from Ennis waiting nervously all day for Jack to arrive to the scene by the water. The look on Ennis's face after he says, 'you gotta stand it ..' he looks like he wants to cry, his lips tremble ... and then when he says there's no reins on this one and Jack strokes his face  ...  :'(  :'(

If tears cleanse something inside you after you cry, then I've been WELL cleansed since I saw this film. So many scene have me teaful, this is one of them!  :'(  And I can't stop watching them!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: cythera4 on January 28, 2006, 04:33:41 PM
Ellye, I really envy you that you have the movie on DVD already. I put in an order on Amazon right after I watched it the first time in the theater. I can only hope they include lots of extras, like Heath & Jake doing a commentary track together!

I have tons of work to do this weekend, but my reward for getting it done is that I'm taking two friends to see the movie tomorrow night for the first time....
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Scoutjr on January 28, 2006, 04:44:40 PM
Do you know when it comes out on DVD? I thought I heard April 9, but I don't know where I got that. And yes, a commentary by Jake and Heath would be nice. Maybe some deleted scenes too!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ellye on January 28, 2006, 04:49:22 PM
Do you know when it comes out on DVD? I thought I heard April 9, but I don't know where I got that. And yes, a commentary by Jake and Heath would be nice. Maybe some deleted scenes too!

I've got it on order from Amazon who have the date of April 17, but some people have even said it comes out in March!

Judging by what you see and hear on the official trailer which isn't in the film,  there's probably loads of deleted scenes. I hope they get put on the DVD. Various takes of the reunion and tent scenes would be nice as well!   ;)
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: angela_toronto on January 28, 2006, 08:36:58 PM
another compelling thing about annie's writing, she gives due respect to the sense of smell and how it impacts on one's emotions.  particularly for ennis.  she describes the smells in the bedroom when alma jr was born; then ennis smells the shirts that he finds in jack's boyhood closet and (in the film) he smells his daughter's sweater before folding it away.

for the reunion scene annie wrote: "He could smell Jack -- the intensely familiar odor of cigarettes, musky sweat and a faint sweetness like grass, and with it the rushing cold of the mountain." 

jack's arrival was planned for days, ennis had time to prepare emotionally for an innocent reunion in front of his wife.  those precious and familar scents of jack when they first embraced, however, emotionally overwhelmed him and helped make him lose control.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Birdi on January 28, 2006, 08:47:50 PM
Ennis has such pent-up emotions, rarely showing them in some cases, never voicing them... but it's so powerful how he just comes unraveled as the day wears on anticipating Jack's arrival and then the way he just explodes with emotion in the scene.  You see it come across his face looking down from the window.  I love this part!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Radha on January 29, 2006, 02:44:29 PM
I really appreciate your help Radha.
You are such a cool guy. Thanks a lot!

Thanks, Martin. Make that a cool "gal".... :)

Radha, you couldn't be a cool gal and email it to me too could you ::)
Thanks in anticipation!
katecaton@tiscali.co.uk

You Bet  :)
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: jimmywa on January 29, 2006, 03:44:55 PM
I have downloaded the tent and reunion clips and along with this discussion and group can't get enough.
As a true Brokeaholic I can't get enough and need more.  If there are other scenes or clips can you please send them to me at
jimmywa1947@yahoo.com?  Save a poor guy from the symptoms of withdrawal...
Thank you all for your posts.  It has helped me appreciate a GREAT movie beyond the superlative!  I've seen it 5 times and have arranged to see it twice more and intend to buy at lease 2 DVD's one a "working" DVD the other like prized china only to be seen on special occasions..  I pray for a "directors" cut version.  This is a great group and I'm glad to be a part of it...
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: jimmywa on January 29, 2006, 03:47:22 PM
Did I mention I bought the book with the story and screen play and it's falling apart already?
Obcessed?  Not much...   Looking for the walk in clinic...
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: jimmywa on January 29, 2006, 03:54:12 PM
The contradictions in the scene are more powerful the more you watch as well.  Ennis leaves the kids at the supermarket because he has to go to his work and cannot afford to piss off his boss.  Jack shows up and Alma asks about work.  Suddenly, the boss owes Ennis, he worked through a blizzard last winter.  The irony was very apparent.

I noticed how the priorities shift too...  Mine have done the same
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: andy/Claude on January 29, 2006, 04:40:55 PM
Can anyone help me here please? I'm wondering why the screenplay writers chose to ommit 2 very crucial words of Ennis in this scene. After breaking for breath, Ennis call Jack 'little darlin' a term of endearment we're told saved only for his horses and daughters. Would this not have helped us to understand better the depth of feeling of Ennis towards Jack?.
Andy.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: cythera4 on January 29, 2006, 04:46:46 PM
Can anyone help me here please? I'm wondering why the screenplay writers chose to ommit 2 very crucial words of Ennis in this scene. After breaking for breath, Ennis call Jack 'little darlin' a term of endearment we're told saved only for his horses and daughters. Would this not have helped us to understand better the depth of feeling of Ennis towards Jack?.
Andy.

Good question. I think probably b/c we haven't heard him saying it much to his cows or daughters (though he does to Alma Jr. later on), and so it might have sounded stilted. I think everything that needs to be said is said in this scene by the extraordinary acting of both men. But one of the most painful parts of the film is that Ennis never returns verbally the love Jack gives him--there is no comparable line to Jack's "sometimes I miss you so much I can't hardly stand it." But who knows what they say alone together? And Jack is so sensitive and wise to Ennis's ways that he probably doesn't need the words to know the truth.

Then again, maybe Ennis threatenting to Kill Jack for going to Mexico is his way of saying what he feels--I love you so damn much that if I ever knew you were with another man, I'd kill you. It's angry and violent rather than loving, but it's Ennis's way.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: desperadum on January 29, 2006, 04:49:56 PM
I agree - the little darlin' part was only mentioned at that moment in the story, and in the movie we'd never heard it before, and it wouldn't make much sense - sweet as it is in the story. That endearment seems to have been replaced by "Jack F***** Twist"!

Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Birdi on January 29, 2006, 06:52:33 PM
He almost got there later on when laying on his back looking up at the stars and Jack says, "anything interesting up in heaven?"  Ennis replys, "just sending up a prayer of thanks"  Jack: "for what?"  Ennis: "ah for you not bringing that damn harmonica, that's what"  chuckles.... you know what he was thinking really....at least I wanna think so :)
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: crcj on January 29, 2006, 08:29:38 PM
This has come up before and I think the previous thoughts are still on target.  In the story, Jack races up the stairs and initiates the embrace and kiss with Ennis.  The screenwriters/Ang had Ennis race down the stairs and initiate the embrace/kiss with Jack.  When you also factor in Ennis' anxiety all day leading up to Jack's arrival, the movie is clearly trying to demonstrate something even stronger than having Ennis say his term of endearment.

Equally as meaningful, in the story at the motel Ennis tells Jack that about a year after they parted, he realized he never should have let Jack out of his sight.  A very powerful statement from a man who struggles to state his feelings.  In the movie, the scene plays a bit differently, because Ennis hides the strength of his feelings behind a sense of uncertainty about his reactions to their reunion.  Of course, he is also near tears when he tells Jack that he thinks he is stuck with what he has now with Alma and the girls.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: aceygirl on January 30, 2006, 08:45:57 AM
I agree - the little darlin' part was only mentioned at that moment in the story, and in the movie we'd never heard it before, and it wouldn't make much sense - sweet as it is in the story. That endearment seems to have been replaced by "Jack F***** Twist"!



The smile on Ennis/Heath's face when he says that is just heartbreakingly sweet! And the way he kinda throws his arms apart in abandon and welcome...*sighhhh*
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ingmarnicebbmt on January 30, 2006, 09:47:34 AM
Hi, I'm new to this great forum, I've been lurking for some days and feel the need to share thoughts with you. I'm a gay man living in a very happy long-time relationship with another man, the love of my life. We live in Southern France, although I'm German. We've seen BBMT together and are still shaken with it.

This movie has captivated me like no movie before, in a million ways. Not a common thing for a cinema-addict like me... Like most of you, in the hours and days after the first viewing I could hardly sleep walk eat talk work without thinking about anything else. The very thought of this film moves me to tears.

There's an urgent question lingering in my mind, and I hope someone can help me out here: After the famous "Jack f. Twist", Ennis rushes down the staircase, they hug for the first time, and the guitar sets in. So it's almost impossible to decide (I've played the scene trailer from Pathé over and over to be sure) who's talking, but it seems, that one of them is saying "I'm so glad you came" - or is it rather Jack's voice with a completely different line?

I need to know - it drives me mad (new film viewing up tonight for me...) :'(
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: aevkc on January 30, 2006, 09:49:33 AM
I think in the reunion scene when they hug Jack says, "Son of a bitch," in a low voice.  There might be more said than that, but that's what I hear.  Hope that helps.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: crcj on January 30, 2006, 09:59:49 AM
Yeah, I heard "son of a bitch" as well.  Then once the embrace is over and Ennis looks around, he says, "Come here."  And then proceeds to ravage our man Jack up against the wall.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ingmarnicebbmt on January 30, 2006, 10:04:58 AM
Thanks for your quick answers - but I'm still not sure that's all I hear, although I know the "Son of a bitch" are repeatedly mentioned in the story.
It sounds like Jack's/Jake's voice, but I hear something like "glad" or "came" - so does anyone know if this movie scene (reunion) is exactly faithful to the script?
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ellye on January 30, 2006, 10:05:40 AM
I think in the reunion scene when they hug Jack says, "Son of a bitch," in a low voice.  There might be more said than that, but that's what I hear.  Hope that helps.
Apparently in the book (which I've finally ordered! The book to screenplay one) either one or both says 'son of a bitch' about 3 times (could be wrong) Jack, of course, only says it once, and all I hear apart from that is when they draw back from the hug, Ennis looks round, then he grabs hold of Jack, and as he pushes him back he says "c'm'ere" - or, as I like to say it, he 'rumbled' it, cos Ennis did rumble rather than speak, in that wonderful gravelly tone!  :)

But he definitely says "c'm'ere'" before pushing Jack back to kiss him. Oh, and of course, before they go upstairs, when they are trying to pry themselves apart, when Ennis moves Jack's hands from his face, and he puts his own hands on Jack's face and touches their foreheads for a second, he says "later", which says everything in one word about what's gonna happen after they've seen Alma!   ;D

That's the only words uttered in that scene, as far as I've heard, anyway.

Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Birdi on January 30, 2006, 10:06:06 AM
Yeah, I heard "son of a bitch" as well.  Then once the embrace is over and Ennis looks around, he says, "Come here."  And then proceeds to ravage our man Jack up against the wall.


I just watched it on a clip I have, you are exactly right, Jack says, "son of a bitch" breathlessly as he hugs Ennis....
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Ross:Broken on January 30, 2006, 10:31:50 AM
There's an urgent question lingering in my mind, and I hope someone can help me out here: After the famous "Jack f. Twist", Ennis rushes down the staircase, they hug for the first time, and the guitar sets in. So it's almost impossible to decide (I've played the scene trailer from Pathé over and over to be sure) who's talking, but it seems, that one of them is saying "I'm so glad you came" - or is it rather Jack's voice with a completely different line?

I need to know - it drives me mad (new film viewing up tonight for me...) :'(

I believe Jack says "Sonofabitch...Sonofabitch." 
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ellye on January 30, 2006, 10:35:27 AM
There's an urgent question lingering in my mind, and I hope someone can help me out here: After the famous "Jack f. Twist", Ennis rushes down the staircase, they hug for the first time, and the guitar sets in. So it's almost impossible to decide (I've played the scene trailer from Pathé over and over to be sure) who's talking, but it seems, that one of them is saying "I'm so glad you came" - or is it rather Jack's voice with a completely different line?

I need to know - it drives me mad (new film viewing up tonight for me...) :'(

I believe Jack says "Sonofabitch...Sonofabitch." 

He only says it once on screen. Definitely. Like I said, the book says he says it more than once, I believe, but he only says it once in the film.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ingmarnicebbmt on January 30, 2006, 10:35:27 AM
Thanks for the "later" information - what a joy for Jack to learn that there will be definitely a "later", something intimate and promising -  and not only a evening at home, watching TV together, or only getting drunk together in a pub. Imagine that!!!

I wish in the 2nd truck scene, Ennis would have found a way not to be so cruel with Jack, and just have given him a sign to wait for him somewhere - so that they (and we) could have
exchanged another fantastic kissing sequence. Or a hint at sex again, for that matter.

I agree with earlier posters, "for all it's worth" (pun intended - lake scene later in the movie), we should have seen at least two or three more tender or passionate moments later on in the movie... There's never explicit tenderness again between the two men. On purpose or not, it's simply not enough for me.

And, by the way, what about the flashback in their last scene together (Jack dozing upright) - is this really a souvenir/memory or do we witness rather only wishful thinking on Jack's side ("a pine dream", has one of the movie critics called it concerning Jack's insistance in general)?
For Jack I hope indeed it was really a memory !
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Birdi on January 30, 2006, 10:41:17 AM
The scene is a 'real' flashback by every indication.  My vote ;)
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Ross:Broken on January 30, 2006, 10:44:21 AM
The scene is a 'real' flashback by every indication.  My vote ;)

No doubt in my mind, it was real.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: aevkc on January 30, 2006, 10:53:22 AM
In both the story and the screenplay it indicates it's a real memory of Jack's, the best memory he has of his times with Ennis.  I think it was definitely real and not wishful thinking. 
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: andy/Claude on January 30, 2006, 04:41:48 PM
The memory is totally true. The very last paragraph before going on to the 'accident', Prouix writes..'Later, that dozy embrace solidified in his memory as the single moment of artless, charmed happiness in their seperate and charmed lives. Nothing marred it, even the knowledge that Ennis would not then embrace him face to face because he did not want to see nor feel that it was Jack he held. And maybe, he thought, they'd never got much farther than that. let be, let be'.
This memory is 20 years old from the time they first shared and 'new how it would go for the rest of the summer, sheep be damned'.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: SquallCloud on January 30, 2006, 05:27:53 PM
*waves to Bre*

The debat has raged on about who bottomed who in the hotel scene (I think the config set in the initial scene was the only config they had.) but I was wondering, judging by their emotional state at the time of the reunion, I wondered if they made love more primally (first tent scene) playfully (during Aquirre's peep show) or more tenderly (second tent scene) They were apart from each other for 4 years and they did nearly rip each other's heads off kissing but at the same time, maybe after dinner and a few drinks, and some great talk, they were in a different mental/emotional state. Anybody got any opinion on this?
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Mr. Wrong on January 30, 2006, 05:36:13 PM
*waves to Bre*

The debat has raged on about who bottomed who in the hotel scene (I think the config set in the initial scene was the only config they had.) but I was wondering, judging by their emotional state at the time of the reunion, I wondered if they made love more primally (first tent scene) playfully (during Aquirre's peep show) or more tenderly (second tent scene) They were apart from each other for 4 years and they did nearly rip each other's heads off kissing but at the same time, maybe after dinner and a few drinks, and some great talk, they were in a different mental/emotional state. Anybody got any opinion on this?

Well, if it were me and I had a Jack who looked like Jake that I hadn't seen in 4 years---dinner, drinks and talk would be the LAST things we would do. :D
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: SquallCloud on January 30, 2006, 06:29:11 PM
True that! heh, I just remember before they both get in the truck, Jack says "I'm starvin!" Ennis said "Me too!" He had been driving for the better part of a day to get to his man. Plus I'd like to think that their relationship was more than just arguments and earth shattering sex lol.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: lovebbm on January 30, 2006, 06:37:13 PM
Wasn't the 'I'm starving' line the next day after they had spent the night in the hotel, and Ennis had just finished telling Alma he and Jack were going away for a few days?
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: peteinportland on January 30, 2006, 06:43:01 PM
The interesting thing about the "I'm starving line" is that Alma over hears it. The night before Ennis told her Jack was not the restaurant type. Where else were Ennis and Jack going to get something to eat in Riverton? I didn't see a McDonalds.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Ross:Broken on January 30, 2006, 06:46:26 PM
The interesting thing about the "I'm starving line" is that Alma over hears it. The night before Ennis told her Jack was not the restaurant type. Where else were Ennis and Jack going to get something to eat in Riverton?

I picked up on that too...also, how did they work up that appetite, I wonder?  Another bitter reminder of her husband's deception.  :-\
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: JT on January 30, 2006, 08:03:00 PM
Hi!  I'm a longtime lurker and a first time poster.

About those reunion/motel scenes, where would I be able to download it?  I tried once, but the sound wasn't working...  Keep in mind I am a complete amateur when it comes to downloads.

Thanks and keep up the great posts!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: cythera4 on January 30, 2006, 08:59:37 PM
The interesting thing about the "I'm starving line" is that Alma over hears it. The night before Ennis told her Jack was not the restaurant type. Where else were Ennis and Jack going to get something to eat in Riverton?

I picked up on that too...also, how did they work up that appetite, I wonder?  Another bitter reminder of her husband's deception.  :-\

That's so perceptive--thanks, Pete. This movie really rewards multiple viewings. There are so many little touches that are easy to miss in the midst of the epic sweep of the story. In some cases, I wonder if I'm just imagining them--for example, do you think it means anything that the movie opens and ends in a trailer? Could Jack settle there not just b/c it's cheap but also b/c it reminds him of where he first met Jack?
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: peteinportland on January 30, 2006, 09:29:42 PM
Cythera4, of course it means something! Check out the threads on the "First Scene" and the "Last Scene" to find much more discussion about this parallel.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: cythera4 on January 30, 2006, 09:31:29 PM
Cythera4, of course it means something! Check out the threads on the "First Scene" and the "Last Scene" to find much more discussion about this parallel.

Thanks, Pete. I'm still finding my way around the site. My apologies if I've missed a discussion on this elsewhere....
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: David on January 30, 2006, 09:37:59 PM
The interesting thing about the "I'm starving line" is that Alma over hears it. The night before Ennis told her Jack was not the restaurant type. Where else were Ennis and Jack going to get something to eat in Riverton? I didn't see a McDonalds.

Pete, they may have stopped at the diner/bus stop where Ennis was later pushing the pie around his plate. Ennis saying, "He's not the restaurant type," was just so he could get alone with Jack more quickly.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: peteinportland on January 30, 2006, 10:02:50 PM
Yes David, I understand that. My point is that Alma understands this too due to the overheard conversation. I was asking where they ate tongue-in-cheek. If Alma ain't cooking it for them, they must be going to a restaurant--a place (according to Ennis) Jack wouldn't want to go!   ;)
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ellye on January 31, 2006, 03:30:51 AM
Wasn't the 'I'm starving' line the next day after they had spent the night in the hotel, and Ennis had just finished telling Alma he and Jack were going away for a few days?

Yes, it was. Clearly from when they left together the previous evening they didn't bother with eating anything (well, not food anyway). Maybe they just got some sustanence some other way til their hunger caught up with them next morning ....  ;)  ;D
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Birdi on January 31, 2006, 09:50:19 AM
I dont have the book anymore but didn't it say something like in 20 min they were at the motel?  Somewhere I got that impression, hey but I'm old and forgetful so somebody help with this one! :P
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: aceygirl on January 31, 2006, 12:26:24 PM
I dont have the book anymore but didn't it say something like in 20 min they were at the motel?  Somewhere I got that impression, hey but I'm old and forgetful so somebody help with this one! :P

Yep. "They went off in Jack's truck, bought a bottle of whiskey and within twenty minutes were in the Motel Siesta jouncing a bed."

 ;)
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Bethie on February 01, 2006, 07:37:11 PM
Okay, This scene, which I think is so huge, has not been discussed anywhere where I have been looking. It is at the tail end of the reunion scene. (If this has been discussed please forgive and point me in the right direction).

The boys have made it to their camp after the hotel. Ennis is lying on his back by the fire, Jack is sitting off to the side. Ennis is looking up into the night sky and Jack says to him, 'what is so interesting up there in heaven'. Ennis has a look of absolute bliss on his face and says 'I am grateful"... Jack pounces on that as says why???? And of course Ennis in his flip way says... 'I am grateful you are not playing the harmonica'. Damn him!!!!! AGAIN!!! He was half way there. Why could he not finish the sentance  and say...'I am grateful I am here with you'. Makes me want to be sick at my stomach. They had the best next kiss on the landing, got after it in the motel...     :'(    :-X   :'(
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: cythera4 on February 01, 2006, 07:47:11 PM
Okay, This scene, which I think is so huge, has not been discussed anywhere where I have been looking. It is at the tail end of the reunion scene. (If this has been discussed please forgive and point me in the right direction).

The boys have made it to their camp after the hotel. Ennis is lying on his back by the fire, Jack is sitting off to the side. Ennis is looking up into the night sky and Jack says to him, 'what is so interesting up there in heaven'. Ennis has a look of absolute bliss on his face and says 'I am grateful"... Jack pounces on that as says why???? And of course Ennis in his flip way says... 'I am grateful you are not playing the harmonica'. Damn him!!!!! AGAIN!!! He was half way there. Why could he not finish the sentance  and say...'I am grateful I am here with you'. Makes me want to be sick at my stomach. They had the best next kiss on the landing, got after it in the motel...     :'(    :-X   :'(

I think Jack knows what Ennis meant, even if he doesn't have the courage to say it. Honestly, if I didn't believe that Jack knew, deep down, how much Ennis truly loved him, I would find the movie too emotionally lacerating to bear.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: crcj on February 01, 2006, 08:17:20 PM
The line from Ennis was actually very touching given what we know about his ability to express himself.  He actually says, "I was sending up a prayer of thanks."  I love that line, because it too is a bit out of character for Ennis.  And Jack does understand what it means.  I think Jack was very perceptive overall, and that is what helps the relationship continue for all those years.  He did not need to be told explicitly how Ennis felt about him, thought he certainly would have appreciated it a great deal I think.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: andyincolorado on February 01, 2006, 09:33:08 PM
I've read in several places that Michelle Williams gave an interesting account of how she had requested 'help' from Heath and Jake after the big kissing moment, to get her into her 'reaction' upon seeing them when the camera cut to her.
After Heath and Jake were done and they were standing off to the side with just their arms over their shoulders (this is what I read), Michelle asked them if they would repeat their kiss just for her when the camera cut to her moment. They agreed to do it again for her benefit......she remembers yelling at them "HARDER"..."I'M NOT CONVINCED!!!" so she could react for the camera.

I would LOVE to have seen Ang Lee's reaction to that!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: helen_uk on February 01, 2006, 09:48:09 PM
I would LOVE to have seen Ang Lee's reaction to that!

I would just love to have seen it!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: alma on February 01, 2006, 10:22:07 PM
I would LOVE to have seen Ang Lee's reaction to that!

I would just love to have seen it!


You can hear his reaction on the NPR interview that he did awhile back. He describes that moment and how much he was surprised by Michelle!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: cythera4 on February 01, 2006, 10:38:44 PM
I would LOVE to have seen Ang Lee's reaction to that!

I would just love to have seen it!


You can hear his reaction on the NPR interview that he did awhile back. He describes that moment and how much he was surprised by Michelle!


OK, now you've started this whole threesome fantasy for me and I was hoping to get some work done tonight!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ellye on February 02, 2006, 03:13:15 AM
I've read in several places that Michelle Williams gave an interesting account of how she had requested 'help' from Heath and Jake after the big kissing moment, to get her into her 'reaction' upon seeing them when the camera cut to her.
After Heath and Jake were done and they were standing off to the side with just their arms over their shoulders (this is what I read), Michelle asked them if they would repeat their kiss just for her when the camera cut to her moment. They agreed to do it again for her benefit......she remembers yelling at them "HARDER"..."I'M NOT CONVINCED!!!" so she could react for the camera.

I would LOVE to have seen Ang Lee's reaction to that!

The version I read was that they were standing where they did the kissing, off-camera, for her to get the eyeline right (look in the right place) and she asks them to kiss again for the reason mentioned. I saw it quoted as they agreed, but  'they started kissing reluctantly' (love the word 'reluctantly'!  ;D ) so that was when she told them to make it look real ... so presumably they did, even though they were both exhausted by then from doing it.
That's what I remember reading.

Ah, it's a story that'll never die, whichever version is mentioned!  :)

But it does show how dedicated they all were to what they were doing.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Ross:Broken on February 02, 2006, 08:14:41 AM
I saw it quoted as they agreed, but  'they started kissing reluctantly' (love the word 'reluctantly'!  ;D ) so that was when she told them to make it look real ... so presumably they did, even though they were both exhausted by then from doing it.

Am I the only one who cannot even IMAGINE being "exhausted" from making out with either of those guys all day?   ;D
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: SquallCloud on February 02, 2006, 01:20:39 PM
I was watching the Charlie Rose clip with Ang and Heath. In all the interviews includeing Oprah (which I must have watched upwards of 20 times by now) it is mentioned that they did this reunion kiss 13 times but Ang said they did the First Night in the Tent scene 13 times and he used take #7.  :o Can we get some outtakes on the DVD, please? HA! That'll be the day.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ehjj on February 03, 2006, 04:09:10 AM
I've read in several places that Michelle Williams gave an interesting account of how she had requested 'help' from Heath and Jake after the big kissing moment, to get her into her 'reaction' upon seeing them when the camera cut to her.
After Heath and Jake were done and they were standing off to the side with just their arms over their shoulders (this is what I read), Michelle asked them if they would repeat their kiss just for her when the camera cut to her moment. They agreed to do it again for her benefit......she remembers yelling at them "HARDER"..."I'M NOT CONVINCED!!!" so she could react for the camera.

I would LOVE to have seen Ang Lee's reaction to that!

The version I read was that they were standing where they did the kissing, off-camera, for her to get the eyeline right (look in the right place) and she asks them to kiss again for the reason mentioned. I saw it quoted as they agreed, but  'they started kissing reluctantly' (love the word 'reluctantly'!  ;D ) so that was when she told them to make it look real ... so presumably they did, even though they were both exhausted by then from doing it.
That's what I remember reading.

Ah, it's a story that'll never die, whichever version is mentioned!  :)

But it does show how dedicated they all were to what they were doing.

Hi  --  I've been reading the posts here for a few days, and I want to thank you all; I've enjoyed them so much.  I was trying to resist joining the forum (which would mean admitting my obsession), but I finally gave up resisting and registered (<g>).  Hope you all don't mind my crashing your party.  ;D

Anyway, in the NPR interview, and in other interviews I've read, Ang Lee said that he did 7 takes of The Kiss from one side, then 6 takes from the other side (I assume he means when Ennis slams Jack against the right-hand wall, then in reverse against the left-hand wall).  Then he did 3 more takes from the staircase, to show what Alma sees.  He said the boys were very tired by then (that's *16* takes!).  But then Michelle asked them to do it again for her take.  He said they kinda 'looked up at the sky' (I thought that was a cute description <g>), and then started 'necking' a little.  But Michelle wasn't happy with it, and kept yelling at them to get into it more.  (Ang said something like, she had the power to order one of them around.  I guess Jake, sweetheart that he is, just went along.)  So they did it for 5 more takes.  So all together, they did 21 takes!!!  And I believe Ang said it was one of the first days of the shoot.

You can see Michelle's point, though:  if they were just necking a little, her reaction would probably be more like, What the ???  It would seem more strange and unexpected, than like a knife through the heart, the way the passionate kisses are.  She might've been confused if she saw them nuzzling a bit, but the way they did kiss, there was no room for doubt as to what it meant.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Maia on February 03, 2006, 07:29:49 AM
I just love this scene too. (well,  I love the whole movie! ) Here is a clip to that reunion scene. (You can also find other BBM videos here by just searching the site.) Some of them not about the movie though.... I guess that some pirate version must have hit the internet because there is so much these clips (This one something like 7min...)

http://www.youtube.com/w/Brokeback-Mountain-%28Meet-Again%29?v=u_rSlRVSmYM&search=Brokeback%20mountain
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: SquallCloud on February 03, 2006, 10:42:15 AM

Hi  --  I've been reading the posts here for a few days, and I want to thank you all; I've enjoyed them so much.  I was trying to resist joining the forum (which would mean admitting my obsession), but I finally gave up resisting and registered (<g>).  Hope you all don't mind my crashing your party.  ;D

Anyway, in the NPR interview, and in other interviews I've read, Ang Lee said that he did 7 takes of The Kiss from one side, then 6 takes from the other side (I assume he means when Ennis slams Jack against the right-hand wall, then in reverse against the left-hand wall).  Then he did 3 more takes from the staircase, to show what Alma sees.  He said the boys were very tired by then (that's *16* takes!).  But then Michelle asked them to do it again for her take.  He said they kinda 'looked up at the sky' (I thought that was a cute description <g>), and then started 'necking' a little.  But Michelle wasn't happy with it, and kept yelling at them to get into it more.  (Ang said something like, she had the power to order one of them around.  I guess Jake, sweetheart that he is, just went along.)  So they did it for 5 more takes.  So all together, they did 21 takes!!!  And I believe Ang said it was one of the first days of the shoot.

You can see Michelle's point, though:  if they were just necking a little, her reaction would probably be more like, What the ???  It would seem more strange and unexpected, than like a knife through the heart, the way the passionate kisses are.  She might've been confused if she saw them nuzzling a bit, but the way they did kiss, there was no room for doubt as to what it meant.

Damn! There lips must have been so chapped. No wonder Jake said they were so beat up during the physical scenes. 21 times? Geez. ... Having said that, is it too much to ask to get every single take of evert love scene on the DVD?
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: aceygirl on February 03, 2006, 01:36:16 PM


Hi  --  I've been reading the posts here for a few days, and I want to thank you all; I've enjoyed them so much.  I was trying to resist joining the forum (which would mean admitting my obsession), but I finally gave up resisting and registered (<g>).  Hope you all don't mind my crashing your party.  ;D

But then Michelle asked them to do it again for her take.  He said they kinda 'looked up at the sky' (I thought that was a cute description <g>), and then started 'necking' a little.  But Michelle wasn't happy with it, and kept yelling at them to get into it more.  (Ang said something like, she had the power to order one of them around.  I guess Jake, sweetheart that he is, just went along.)  So they did it for 5 more takes.  So all together, they did 21 takes!!!  And I believe Ang said it was one of the first days of the shoot.


I wonder if Jake went along so very reluctantly...although didn't he say at one point that he almost got his nose broken?

If I were Michelle I would've yelled at them to get into it more too...but not necessarily because of devotion to my acting!  ;D

I dearly hope the DVD will have lots of outtakes and deleted scenes showing more action between the boys!

Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Radha on February 03, 2006, 08:06:52 PM
In the reunion scene, I'm particularly amazed by Michelle. There are no words to express how real she is and somehow her shock becomes our shock. I noticed that after closing the door and slowly walking over to the table, she lets out a gasp/sob when she hears Ennis walk into the room to introduce Jack. Like she's jerked awake from her stupour and now has to face this unthinkable reality in the face.  Also, the next scene where she shudderingly sobs into her daughter's shoulder as she hears Ennis and Jack drive away for the weekend just broke my heart. Her pain is palpable, and it reaches out to you in waves. On one hand you are just reeling from the jubilation of the powerful reunion between Ennis and Jack, you barely recover from that, then you are hit with the devastation of Alma's realization. Ang Lee is really a genius.  And because it can't be said enough, This movie is as close to cinematic perfection as we can get.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: alma on February 03, 2006, 08:38:08 PM
In the reunion scene, I'm particularly amazed by Michelle. There are no words to express how real she is and somehow her shock becomes our shock. I noticed that after closing the door and slowly walking over to the table, she lets out a gasp/sob when she hears Ennis walk into the room to introduce Jack. Like she's jerked awake from her stupour and now has to face this unthinkable reality in the face.  Also, the next scene where she shudderingly sobs into her daughter's shoulder as she hears Ennis and Jack drive away for the weekend just broke my heart. Her pain is palpable, and it reaches out to you in waves. On one hand you are just reeling from the jubilation of the powerful reunion between Ennis and Jack, you barely recover from that, then you are hit with the devastation of Alma's realization. Ang Lee is really a genius.  And because it can't be said enough, This movie is as close to cinematic perfection as we can get.

You're exactly right.

And do you notice how you never really get to enjoy the relationship. Just when it is finally getting off the ground (after the second night in the tent) and the two come playfully out of the tent, we discover that while we are enjoying their togetherness, they're being watched through binoculars. The same thing happens with the reunion kiss, where just as our thrill coincides with theirs, the painful reality of adultery intrudes immediately...

They never do get a break, not really and neither do we.

Brilliant.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: clcny1 on February 03, 2006, 09:26:47 PM
Ok, some more minutae from my latest viewing (7th). I remember that Ang Lee mentioned that the hats were a problem during the kissing scenes in an NPR interview. Watch Ennis carefully as he pushes Jack back against the wall to kiss him. He raises his hand like he's caressing his head, but he's also knocking off that tan cowboy hat at the same time. You figure if he doesnt knock that hat off, he'll be picking tan felt (is that what cowboy hats are made from?) from between his teeth.Very precise timing/choreography that you miss unless youre looking for it.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: cythera4 on February 03, 2006, 11:05:28 PM
On one hand you are just reeling from the jubilation of the powerful reunion between Ennis and Jack, you barely recover from that, then you are hit with the devastation of Alma's realization. Ang Lee is really a genius.  And because it can't be said enough, This movie is as close to cinematic perfection as we can get.


So very true. I think on the strength of this film you have to say that Ang Lee is probably now the best director alive. I think the proof of that is how your appreciation for all his subtle touches and his masterful orchestration of emotions deepens on subsequent viewings. The reunion scene, for example, has so much going on in it: Ennis's impatience as he waits for Jack, Alma's curiosity about this mysterious friend, the physical passion of the reunion itself, Alma's stricken reaction to their kissing, Jack's own hunger and gratitude that Ennis still wants him, the strained introductions (with all three of them desperate to be elsewhere, for different reasons), and on and on. It's so much to keep track of and yet the scene doesn't feel cluttered or rushed; it just unfolds like a continuous emotional explosion. The three actors deserve Oscars for this scene alone, but Ang Lee deserves to be deified for having pulled it off with such consummate grace and authority.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: valkyrie on February 04, 2006, 05:39:30 AM
Look at their hands when they are together in the love scenes. I am so fascinated the way they seems instinctively to reach up and hold each others heads and stroking face, neck, hair, back of head. I find this aspect so hot hot hot :P and endearing. It is like they want so much to hold on to each other, make sure the other doesn't go away: the mouth each of them long to kiss stay so they can do just that. It is such intimate gesture. :-*

I also come back to the fact that they very soon in their starting to work together became a "we". Have you folks noticed the same? Instead of referring to themself in singular terms, they seems to be thinking of themselves as a team very soon, and as time pass as a "we"): a couple.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Ross:Broken on February 04, 2006, 06:38:46 AM
You're exactly right.

And do you notice how you never really get to enjoy the relationship. Just when it is finally getting off the ground (after the second night in the tent) and the two come playfully out of the tent, we discover that while we are enjoying their togetherness, they're being watched through binoculars. The same thing happens with the reunion kiss, where just as our thrill coincides with theirs, the painful reality of adultery intrudes immediately...

They never do get a break, not really and neither do we.

Brilliant.

Alma, you have touched upon the one thing that I wish was a bit different in the movie.  You are exactly right: we never get to fully enjoy the relationship through the physical affection they show for each other.  First night in the text: well, affection is not quite the word I'd use.  The second night in the tent is so fraught with tension and the fear that Ennis is going to run screaming into the night, you can't really enjoy THAT one until after your first viewing.  As you've stated, the playful horsing around is ruined by Aguirre and his binoculars, and that glorious reunion is marred by Alma's devastation.  Heck, we can't really even enjoy the dozy embrace, knowing that it's just a distant memory and that reality is going to snap us back to the sad present state of Jack and Ennis' relationship.

I thought maybe it was just cruel oversight, but I think you are right: They never get to enjoy it and so neither should we.  :-\
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: valkyrie on February 04, 2006, 11:51:49 AM
However, they have had a night in the motel, no prying eye, and 20 years of seing each 2-3 time a year out in the middle of nowhere...
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ImEnnisShesJack on February 04, 2006, 11:53:56 AM
Here's a little thing I just noticed after reviewing this scene umpybillion times...After Alma sees them on the stairs and closes the doors, the camra leads as she walks back into the kitchen - it's all of maybe 5 steps, but by shifting the fstop and changing the relative speeds of Michelle and the camera, the scene makes it look like she's walking across the grand canyon or something...A very subtle camera trick, but very effective.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: cythera4 on February 04, 2006, 11:54:15 AM
However, they have had a night in the motel, no prying eye, and 20 years of seing each 2-3 time a year out in the middle of nowhere...

In a way, *not* showing more of their physical tenderness makes us realize how rare and precious it truly is. I get a protective feeling whenever another campfire scene starts--you just want this moment for them to last and last forever. But as Jack says, "Never enough time..."
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ImEnnisShesJack on February 04, 2006, 12:12:29 PM
However, they have had a night in the motel, no prying eye, and 20 years of seing each 2-3 time a year out in the middle of nowhere...

In a way, *not* showing more of their physical tenderness makes us realize how rare and precious it truly is. I get a protective feeling whenever another campfire scene starts--you just want this moment for them to last and last forever. But as Jack says, "Never enough time..."

And I think that is Ang's intent with the sparcity we see the intimacy.  That is it rare and precious and coveted and cared for by them.  Despite 20 years of sneaking off into the woods together 2-3 times a year, you instinctively KNOW that love is there and it is something they rely on.

When Agguire watches them through the binoc's, I want to block them off from his sight, I want to protect their love from the rest of the world.  I don't want them to feel guilt or shame.  Sorry this is two different ideas in one post - and really this second half belongs in the 2nd Nite thread...

Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Boris on February 04, 2006, 12:26:03 PM
However, they have had a night in the motel, no prying eye, and 20 years of seing each 2-3 time a year out in the middle of nowhere...

In a way, *not* showing more of their physical tenderness makes us realize how rare and precious it truly is. I get a protective feeling whenever another campfire scene starts--you just want this moment for them to last and last forever. But as Jack says, "Never enough time..."


cythera:

My feelings exactly. The moments we gat to share with them are rare and you would like to see more of them. Like they did.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: jakeb2 on February 04, 2006, 01:54:21 PM
  I think it was an important decision to keep the physical love scenes to a minimum.
It not only maintains a certain amount of mystery about what Jack and Ennis do with/to each other during the 20 years and therefore leaving it open to the imagination, but it also moves the focus of the movie away from the "gay" love aspect and emphasizes the journey of their relationship.  This movie was not about being gay, but rather human nature side of love that can not be controlled even if we try to.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: cythera4 on February 04, 2006, 02:07:03 PM
  I think it was an important decision to keep the physical love scenes to a minimum.
It not only maintains a certain amount of mystery about what Jack and Ennis do with/to each other during the 20 years and therefore leaving it open to the imagination, but it also moves the focus of the movie away from the "gay" love aspect and emphasizes the journey of their relationship.  This movie was not about being gay, but rather human nature side of love that can not be controlled even if we try to.

No, I don't agree with this. Anyone who can watch the movie and delude themselves into believing it isn't about gay love perplexes me. This movie *was* about being gay and makes no sense interpreted any other way. Change the gender of either character and the plot turns into nonsense.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: jakeb2 on February 04, 2006, 02:16:15 PM
  I imagine that this type of relationship exists for many different types of relationships, including hetersexual.  It must have been (and still is in some parts of the world) difficult for a black man to have a relationship with a white woman, or for people of opposing religions, ethnic cultures etc.
  This story easily becomes universal if you step back and look at the basic themes being presented and not just the characters used to tell the story.

  I agree that part of the power of the film is the contradiction between the portrayal of 2 strong male figures who display a softer, more emotional side of their characters, but the denial of love based upon social stigma can apply to more than just gay men.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: valkyrie on February 04, 2006, 02:18:22 PM
I agree. When I read in reviews that you forget it is 2 men, but consentrate on the universal love theme, I oppose this diminishing of the gay love. It is 2 men, that's what makes the movie so strong. And it is able to transcend beyond gender to true love between soulmates, for the exact reason that true love is made concrete with the men.

It sure wouldn't have been the same with a man and a woman.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: cythera4 on February 04, 2006, 02:20:39 PM
Check out this review, which I think shoots down the "universal love" business effectively:

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/18712
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: jakeb2 on February 04, 2006, 02:28:51 PM
  Part of the problem with "shooting down" anything is that it precludes the possibility for more than one opinion.
  When people start to believe that there is only one right way to think about something, we end up in a society where people are rejected for their beliefs and forced to hide for fear of retribution.  Much like Ennis and Jack.

Hmmm...
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: cythera4 on February 04, 2006, 02:34:03 PM
  Part of the problem with "shooting down" anything is that it precludes the possibility for more than one opinion.
  When people start to believe that there is only one right way to think about something, we end up in a society where people are rejected for their beliefs and forced to hide for fear of retribution.  Much like Ennis and Jack.

Hmmm...

Sorry, I'm not buying this at all. You're trying to compare the rejection of a "straight" reading of the movie to homophobia. The movie is about gay love and readings that deny or downplay this are homophobic (and wrong). What I'd like to hear from the "universal love" crowd is *why* they feel compelled to deny the gay love theme. What bothers them so much by pointing out this obvious truth? Isn't gay love "human" enough for them? Why the need to "universalize" it so it isn't "just" about gayness (as if that were somehow a small, mean, or limiting thing).
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: aevkc on February 04, 2006, 02:52:42 PM
I already posted something similar to this on another thread, but I'll do it again.  I am a straight white woman who had a black boyfriend for 3 years in college.  And I'm sorry, but our relationship would not have worked as well in BBM as the gay relationship between Jack and Ennis.  We had external pressures, his family wasn't thrilled, we got negative comments from strangers, etc.  But we had no internal conflict.  For starters, we weren't ashamed by our relationship.  And I'm not saying all homosexuals feels shame, but Ennis sure did.  And secondly, there was no question of us denying our essential selves, as Ennis did.  I mean, I was white, it was obvious, I couldn't hide it or pretend otherwise, as Ennis tries to deny he is gay or that he loves another man.  So for me, the reason BBM is so powerful and ultimately so heartbreaking is because Ennis and Jack are not only fighting social pressures but their own internal demons and conflicting feelings about the love they feel for each other. 
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: jakeb2 on February 04, 2006, 03:02:57 PM
  Part of the problem with "shooting down" anything is that it precludes the possibility for more than one opinion.
  When people start to believe that there is only one right way to think about something, we end up in a society where people are rejected for their beliefs and forced to hide for fear of retribution.  Much like Ennis and Jack.

Hmmm...

Sorry, I'm not buying this at all. You're trying to compare the rejection of a "straight" reading of the movie to homophobia. The movie is about gay love and readings that deny or downplay this are homophobic (and wrong). What I'd like to hear from the "universal love" crowd is *why* they feel compelled to deny the gay love theme. What bothers them so much by pointing out this obvious truth? Isn't gay love "human" enough for them? Why the need to "universalize" it so it isn't "just" about gayness (as if that were somehow a small, mean, or limiting thing).

  I am confounded by your remarks about homophobia and how you managed to derive any such implication from my comments.
  While the story is about two gay characters and this is integral to the way the plot unfolds, to deny that anyone other than gay men could experience these feelings or this type of relationship is naive.
  Regardless of sexual orientation, anyone should be able to view the film and take away with them the parts that they relate to.  You should not have to be a gay man to identify with the characters of Ennis and Jack.  By allowing a "universal" interpretation of the film, it makes the story accessible to people who may have thought that a story about 2 gay cowboys could never offer anything of interest to them.

  It isn't that the movie isn't about gay love, it's just that it is about more than just "gay" love.

  By the way, I am gay.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: aevkc on February 04, 2006, 03:04:25 PM
jakeb2, although I think the movei wouldn't have worked without the gay story line (as I said in my above post) I totally agree with you that it's about more than just gay love.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: cythera4 on February 04, 2006, 03:07:23 PM
jakeb2, although I think the movei wouldn't have worked without the gay story line (as I said in my above post) I totally agree with you that it's about more than just gay love.

There it is again: "just" gay love. Don't you see how demeaning that is? No one would ever say: such-and-such a romance was about so much more than "just heterosexual love."
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: aevkc on February 04, 2006, 03:15:24 PM
Cythera4, if you read my earlier post, you'll see I agree with your analysis.  I wasn't trying to be demeaning.  And I disagree with your assumption. I think I would say, "Jungle Fever was about more than just interracial love" or whatever.  I think you're reading more into my word than I really mean.  But I apologize if it offended you.  That was certainly not my intent.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: cythera4 on February 04, 2006, 03:17:32 PM
Cythera4, if you read my earlier post, you'll see I agree with your analysis.  I wasn't trying to be demeaning.  And I disagree with your assumption. I think I would say, "Jungle Fever was about more than just interracial love" or whatever.  I think you're reading more into my word than I really mean.  But I apologize if it offended you.  That was certainly not my intent.

OK, my apologies too for being touchy about it. Apprecate your posts, by the way.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: cythera4 on February 04, 2006, 03:20:01 PM
I guess the reason I flip out every time I read a review or hear a comment that seems to suggest the "gay love" theme is irrelevant or marginal to the film's "true" meaning is because BBM itself has sensitized me to the need to fight whenever gay love is denigrated or ignored. But there are lots of reasons to love this movie, and lots of different kinds of people who do.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ImEnnisShesJack on February 04, 2006, 03:37:08 PM
I guess the reason I flip out every time I read a review or hear a comment that seems to suggest the "gay love" theme is irrelevant or marginal to the film's "true" meaning is because BBM itself has sensitized me to the need to fight whenever gay love is denigrated or ignored. But there are lots of reasons to love this movie, and lots of different kinds of people who do.

okay, you have a valid point.  Brokeback Mountain has been touted as the "gay cowboy movie" for some 7 years.  It's how the movie got taglined.  And true or not, it's bringing GREAT amounts of press - remember there is no such thing as BAD press! - to the movie.  And if that's the only way to refer to it so people know what you're talking about then let be, let be.

When they walk out of the theatres, I'll bet most people aren't calling it the "gay cowboy movie" and most peeps know it's name is Brokeback Mountain.  And I bet they are altering their own views and opinions a little, too.....
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: cythera4 on February 04, 2006, 03:41:58 PM

When they walk out of the theatres, I'll bet most people aren't calling it the "gay cowboy movie" and most peeps know it's name is Brokeback Mountain.  And I bet they are altering their own views and opinions a little, too.....


I'm reminded of the last line from _The Sun Also Rises_: "Yes, isn't it lovely to think so?"
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: aevkc on February 04, 2006, 03:50:44 PM
Cythera4, I'm glad we got that cleared up!  I'd hate to think I upset anyone on this site.  Especially since I loved the movie so much and respect the opinions of everyone here.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: cythera4 on February 04, 2006, 04:14:34 PM
Cythera4, I'm glad we got that cleared up!  I'd hate to think I upset anyone on this site.  Especially since I loved the movie so much and respect the opinions of everyone here.

Me too. You folks are awesome.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: SquallCloud on February 04, 2006, 11:17:17 PM
That was a great article. I always bristled at the distancing of the gay themes in BBM by the stars and the makers and the critics even as I agreed that it's far more about loss and repression than about the love itself and that article put into words what I was feeling. I love coming here. You guys always share the best stuff.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: valkyrie on February 05, 2006, 06:50:41 AM
Thanks for showing me the article. I couldn't agree more. I'd like to give a somewhat new perspective in terms of J & E being soulmates. For people to experience having a soulmate transcends gender, but the fact that this film so clearly shows 2 men being soulmates beyond doubt, is one of the strongest factor that it is so immensely popular. (No good English, I see, but I'm struggling to convey what I mean). Does it make any sense for you with English as your first language?

It is stated with total clarity that J & E are soulmates, and they are men: that's how it is, universal love or not.First time ever on film that 2 men are soulmates and true lovers?
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Vicky0uk on February 05, 2006, 11:52:15 AM
For me that is one of the strongest points of the film...here are two men and they are in love with one another. Deeply in a love in a way that we usually only see between male and female.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: bernadette on February 05, 2006, 03:04:44 PM
He almost got there later on when laying on his back looking up at the stars and Jack says, "anything interesting up in heaven?"  Ennis replys, "just sending up a prayer of thanks"  Jack: "for what?"  Ennis: "ah for you not bringing that damn harmonica, that's what"  chuckles.... you know what he was thinking really....at least I wanna think so :)

That's sweet. I had forgotten about that one. Thanks for reminding me.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: cythera4 on February 05, 2006, 03:07:59 PM
He almost got there later on when laying on his back looking up at the stars and Jack says, "anything interesting up in heaven?"  Ennis replys, "just sending up a prayer of thanks"  Jack: "for what?"  Ennis: "ah for you not bringing that damn harmonica, that's what"  chuckles.... you know what he was thinking really....at least I wanna think so :)

That's sweet. I had forgotten about that one. Thanks for reminding me.

And it's clear that Jack knows what Ennis was REALLY thankful for because his next line is "you know, it could be like this, just like this, always." He doesn't mean no harmonica!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: SquallCloud on February 05, 2006, 03:13:29 PM
So true, cythera! Plus the line has such a pleading little boy quality that breaks my heart. "You know it could be like this, just like this always." *sniff*
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: bernadette on February 05, 2006, 03:14:54 PM
Thanks for your quick answers - but I'm still not sure that's all I hear, although I know the "Son of a bitch" are repeatedly mentioned in the story.
It sounds like Jack's/Jake's voice, but I hear something like "glad" or "came" - so does anyone know if this movie scene (reunion) is exactly faithful to the script?
Hi, note sure if this has already been posted but here it is from the book:

It's a little long to put it all in, so..
"Late in the afternoon, thunder growing, that same old green pickup truck rolled in and he saw Jack get out of the truck..A hot jolt scaled Ennis and he was out o the landing pulling the door closed behind him. Jack too the stairs two and tow. They seized each other by the shoulders, hugged mightily squeezing the breath out of each other, saying, son of a bitch, son of a bitch, then, and easily as the right key turns the lock tumblers, their mouths came together, and hard, Jack's big teeth bringing blood, his hat fallinf to the floor, stubble rasping, wet saliva welling, and the door opening and Alma looking gout for a few seconds at Ennis's straining shoulders and shutting the door again and still the clinched, pressing chest and groin and thigh and leg together, treading on eachother's toes until they pulled apart to breathe and Ennis, not big on endearments, said what he said to his horses and daughters, little darlin." Ok, it was so good I had to put it all in. Hope it helps
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: bernadette on February 05, 2006, 03:20:26 PM
*waves to Bre*

The debat has raged on about who bottomed who in the hotel scene (I think the config set in the initial scene was the only config they had.) but I was wondering, judging by their emotional state at the time of the reunion, I wondered if they made love more primally (first tent scene) playfully (during Aquirre's peep show) or more tenderly (second tent scene) They were apart from each other for 4 years and they did nearly rip each other's heads off kissing but at the same time, maybe after dinner and a few drinks, and some great talk, they were in a different mental/emotional state. Anybody got any opinion on this?


Wait, you can't seriously think they were going to have dinner and a few drinks, after that tidal wave of a reunion kiss?? They went staight to the motel. Or do you mean after the first round they had dinner and drinks, then had sex again, this time more tenderly, like in the second tent scene? I like that idea. I'm sorry,no disrespect. I just get so caught in that scene all I want to do is go to the hotel with them! In the book though they're 'jouncing a bed' at the siesta motel within 20minutes of that reunion.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: bernadette on February 05, 2006, 03:23:36 PM
I dont have the book anymore but didn't it say something like in 20 min they were at the motel?  Somewhere I got that impression, hey but I'm old and forgetful so somebody help with this one! :P

Yes, within 20 minutes they were 'jouncing a bed' at the siesta motel.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: SquallCloud on February 05, 2006, 03:32:36 PM
Okay you're right of course. They *maybe* got a burger at the drivethrough since they did make a point of having Alma overhear the "I'm starving." conversation. Perhaps it was just small talk. Can't very well have him say "Where's the closest motel we can fuck in?"

The expression "jouncing a bed" makes me smile for some odd reason.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: helen_uk on February 05, 2006, 03:34:14 PM
Okay you're right of course. They *maybe* got a burger at the drivethrough since they did make a point of having Alma overhear the "I'm starving." conversation. Perhaps it was just small talk. Can't very well have him say "Where's the closest motel we can fuck in?"

The expression "jouncing a bed" makes me smile for some odd reason.

The "I'm starving" was from the morning after, when Ennis had just picked up his fishing gear and headed out to the truck.  I don't think they took the time to eat the night before...
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: SquallCloud on February 05, 2006, 03:38:16 PM
Okay you're right of course. They *maybe* got a burger at the drivethrough since they did make a point of having Alma overhear the "I'm starving." conversation. Perhaps it was just small talk. Can't very well have him say "Where's the closest motel we can fuck in?"

The expression "jouncing a bed" makes me smile for some odd reason.

The "I'm starving" was from the morning after, when Ennis had just picked up his fishing gear and headed out to the truck.  I don't think they took the time to eat the night before...

Sheeit, your right. ... Guess I need to go see the movie again.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: bernadette on February 05, 2006, 03:38:44 PM
Look at their hands when they are together in the love scenes. I am so fascinated the way they seems instinctively to reach up and hold each others heads and stroking face, neck, hair, back of head. I find this aspect so hot hot hot :P and endearing. It is like they want so much to hold on to each other, make sure the other doesn't go away: the mouth each of them long to kiss stay so they can do just that. It is such intimate gesture. :-*

I also come back to the fact that they very soon in their starting to work together became a "we". Have you folks noticed the same? Instead of referring to themself in singular terms, they seems to be thinking of themselves as a team very soon, and as time pass as a "we"): a couple.

How sweet. I hadn't realized that, but now that you mentioned it....
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: bernadette on February 05, 2006, 03:45:44 PM
[quote  "Where's the closest motel we can fuck in?"

Quote

yeah but god you know it's what they're feel'n. hehehe
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion your dvd can end there if you want
Post by: karind1 on February 05, 2006, 03:56:55 PM
I am not sure where to post this.  I have a copy of the awards dvd--and I just ended watching it where they were in the motel.  When the dvd comes out--how nice it will be on one of those days that you do not want to be sad--that Jack lives on and they never get old and they just love each other.  Voila-just click on stop.
ahhhh
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: madserge on February 05, 2006, 03:59:31 PM
i hope hollywood executives recognize this as one the most beautiful, passionate and powerful kiss scenes.

beautifully done and wonderfully acted.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: peteinportland on February 05, 2006, 07:19:27 PM
I love the article from the NY Times Book Review. I think it is a very important analysis of the work.

However, I do want say something about the debate over the "gay love story" versus the "universal love story." I think it was discussed very well in the "Second Night in the Tent" thread. What gay people have to understand is that many straight people go into this movie expecting a "gay love story."

It may seem very odd to us gay people, but many straight people really have not had any real or heartfelt experience with how gay men love. Now I hear all you gay folks out there saying "That is silly. Whadya mean how gay men love. They love the same as everyone else." Viola! Many straight people have never really encountered a situation where they had to fully comprehend this (even ones with gay friends or relatives). And as sad as it may be for many us gay men who thought everyone already understood this, many people leave a movie they thought was a "gay love story" and realize it is just a love story after all, that gay men love the same as everyone else. For many people, saying it is universal is meaningful and heartfelt. They are not trying to exclude the gayness; instead they are trying to include the gayness as part of the universal expression of love.

I think the reunion scene is the first place where straight audiences really start to understand how universal the love really is between Jack and Ennis and how tragic are their circumstances. They stop thinking of gay love as some foreign concept and understand from the kiss to Jake rubbing Ennis' face by the fire that what these men share is a love as true and powerful as any they have seen on screen. AND, THEY RELATE TO IT.

That is the true magic of this sequence for me. We suddenly (all of us straight and gay--even Jack and Ennis) understand theirs is a lifelong abiding and powerful love while at the same time come to understand the central tragedy of the film. We go from the height of passion and love (the kiss) that we did not realize existed on this level to the tragedy of "I already told you, it's not gonna be that way," and the scene with the tire iron and then Ennis crying by the fire while Jack rubs his face (it's an entire Opera in ten short minutes of film making). It is an emotional punch to the face for everyone straight and gay alike. At this point in the film, it becomes for many people a universal experience not related to sexuality or color or gender but instead related simply to the human condition. That my friends is IMO the true power of film and of art: to transform the specifics of the human condition to the universal.

As gay people, we should celebrate this transcendence and so many people's willingness to include gay love as part of the universal experience. That is what we fight for: to make people understand that our love is the same as theirs, not something less or unequal or different. Love IS universal. We see that between Ennis and Jack. I would hope that audiences also take away the message that GAY people who love, fight very monumental battles in order to love and understand that gay people deserve the same rights and the same support in their loving relationships as straight people have always enjoyed. However, we can't expect them to understand this unless they come to understand that gay love is in the end, really just love (no labels) after all.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: jakeb2 on February 05, 2006, 07:21:33 PM
EXACTLY.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: helen_uk on February 05, 2006, 07:29:25 PM
Couldn't agree with you more Pete.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: naturegirl on February 05, 2006, 07:54:40 PM
That is an excellent summary pete.

Apart from the multi-levelled artistic brilliance of BBM, the crystal clear messages it communicates to me are:

1.  The gender of loving partners is actually completely irrelevant.
2.  It's the love that matters.
3.  Trying to pigeonhole people into "typical" sex orientation boxes is stupid because human relationships are more fluid and variable than that.

Through this film I now understand acutely the pain, tragedy and problems gay people have faced and continue to face due to cultural repression and ignorance when we should celebrate the human capacity to deeply love another person whoever they are.

BBM has opened my eyes and expanded my awareness and understanding.  I am clearly not the only one.  What a great achievement for this film.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: brokebackLJ on February 05, 2006, 08:05:07 PM
Thank you for that. Love is the only thing that matters and I think it's weird when people try to explain relationships, you know, even after you break up about why it didn't work out/or why it did...Relationships and love can't really be explained correctly and accuratly because there are just some things that can't have words attached to them. IE most of the powerful scenes in brokeback are when e and j aren't even talking, but looking at each other, or loving each other...that stuff reads volumes. Like for example THE REUNION when they kiss, the expressions and looks shown are some of the most beautiful I've ever seen two people give each other.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Ross:Broken on February 05, 2006, 10:05:43 PM
Thanks for a beautiful post naturegirl.  And for giving me hope.  :)
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: valkyrie on February 06, 2006, 02:47:40 AM
AMEN for your insightful post, peteinportland.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: hayek_uk on February 06, 2006, 07:08:07 AM
I love the article from the NY Times Book Review. I think it is a very important analysis of the work.

I think the reunion scene is the first place where straight audiences really start to understand how universal the love really is between Jack and Ennis and how tragic are their circumstances. They stop thinking of gay love as some foreign concept and understand from the kiss to Jake rubbing Ennis' face by the fire that what these men share is a love as true and powerful as any they have seen on screen. AND, THEY RELATE TO IT.

That is the true magic of this sequence for me. We suddenly (all of us straight and gay--even Jack and Ennis) understand theirs is a lifelong abiding and powerful love while at the same time come to understand the central tragedy of the film. We go from the height of passion and love (the kiss) that we did not realize existed on this level to the tragedy of "I already told you, it's not gonna be that way," and the scene with the tire iron and then Ennis crying by the fire while Jack rubs his face (it's an entire Opera in ten short minutes of film making). It is an emotional punch to the face for everyone straight and gay alike. At this point in the film, it becomes for many people a universal experience not related to sexuality or color or gender but instead related simply to the human condition....

It is what we fight for: to make people understand that our love is the same as theirs, not something less or unequal or different. Love IS universal. We see that between Ennis and Jack. I would hope that audiences also take away the message that GAY people who love, fight very monumental battles in order to love and understand that gay people deserve the same rights and the same support in their loving relationships as straight people have always enjoyed.

I have just read through the whole of this thread, and am amazed to find it has just reached the point I wanted to make a posting about (my first on this thread). And it's really interesting that as people have started talking about the scene in the motel, peteinportland has posted about the explicit "gay love" aspects of the film.

I really do wonder if it is true that straight people "stop thinking of gay love as some foreign concept and understand from the kiss to Jake rubbing Ennis' face by the fire that what these men share is a love as true and powerful as any they have seen on screen. AND, THEY RELATE TO IT." That is a far more profound rrevolution in thought than seems possible unless someone, to all intents and purposes, already felt much like that. Is there really any evidence that straight people who did until then think gay love was "a foreign concept" are now won over?

In the same way, I don't see how people, gay or straight, could possibly decide the film is about equality and "rights", and fighting for those things. Jack and Ennis do not fight for their love or any aspect of its existence - they secretively pursue it in and for itself, for themselves. They run risks in so doing, and never feel comfortable. They would have no idea what "rights" or "equality" for "gay people" or "gay love" were the idea ever reached their awareness.

Because it is not society or lack of rights or equality, or even fear of physical violence and the tire iron, that prevents their love from achieving permanence and growth, it is their own -- most certainly Ennis's -- internalised homophobic self-loathing and complete inability to conceive of their love in terms that are comparable with straight relationships.

So it is interesting to see what Annie P. has to say about them making love. It is a spectacularly louche scene not reproduced in the movie: within 20 minutes they were jouncing (a new word for me = making it bounce up and down) the bed. Then, when they were done, the room "stank of semen and smoke and sweat and whiskey, of old carpet and sour hay, saddle leather, shit and cheap soap". Ennis lay there, naked and spread-eagle on the bed, still half erect, soaked in sex and sweat, breathing deeply, and Jack says "Christ it got a be all that time a yours ahorseback makes it so goddam good"... And a few minutes later Ennis says: "I like doin it with women, yeah, but Jesus H., ain't nothin like this."

For all that, there is no suggestion that they think they are part of any general or more widespread "sensibility", that their feelings and experiences were shared by others and capable of being given a place in the social-family order. Even if Jack wants to spend his life with Ennis, it is a unique response to their own special experience. As Ennis says: "Shit, I been lookin at people in the street. This happen a other people? What the hell do they do?" To which Jack replies: "It don't happen in Wyomin and if it does I don't know what they do, maybe go to Denver... and I don't give a flyin fuck."

I really do think BBM is a universal movie, with which all kinds and conditions of people can identify, but not in the physicality of gay love-making, or the worthiness of gay people for equal rights. The identification comes with wrong choices, lost love, error, inadequacy, failure to understand in time - with all the mistakes and errors and pain we have all endured and brought on ourselves, and the terrible consequences of acting against our natures and against our needs for reasons we believe higher or more powerful.

Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: HerrKaiser on February 06, 2006, 08:46:02 AM
I love the article from the NY Times Book Review. I think it is a very important analysis of the work.

I think the reunion scene is the first place where straight audiences really start to understand how universal the love really is between Jack and Ennis and how tragic are their circumstances. They stop thinking of gay love as some foreign concept and understand from the kiss to Jake rubbing Ennis' face by the fire that what these men share is a love as true and powerful as any they have seen on screen. AND, THEY RELATE TO IT.

That is the true magic of this sequence for me. We suddenly (all of us straight and gay--even Jack and Ennis) understand theirs is a lifelong abiding and powerful love while at the same time come to understand the central tragedy of the film. We go from the height of passion and love (the kiss) that we did not realize existed on this level to the tragedy of "I already told you, it's not gonna be that way," and the scene with the tire iron and then Ennis crying by the fire while Jack rubs his face (it's an entire Opera in ten short minutes of film making). It is an emotional punch to the face for everyone straight and gay alike. At this point in the film, it becomes for many people a universal experience not related to sexuality or color or gender but instead related simply to the human condition....

It is what we fight for: to make people understand that our love is the same as theirs, not something less or unequal or different. Love IS universal. We see that between Ennis and Jack. I would hope that audiences also take away the message that GAY people who love, fight very monumental battles in order to love and understand that gay people deserve the same rights and the same support in their loving relationships as straight people have always enjoyed.

I have just read through the whole of this thread, and am amazed to find it has just reached the point I wanted to make a posting about (my first on this thread). And it's really interesting that as people have started talking about the scene in the motel, peteinportland has posted about the explicit "gay love" aspects of the film.

I really do wonder if it is true that straight people "stop thinking of gay love as some foreign concept and understand from the kiss to Jake rubbing Ennis' face by the fire that what these men share is a love as true and powerful as any they have seen on screen. AND, THEY RELATE TO IT." That is a far more profound rrevolution in thought than seems possible unless someone, to all intents and purposes, already felt much like that. Is there really any evidence that straight people who did until then think gay love was "a foreign concept" are now won over?

In the same way, I don't see how people, gay or straight, could possibly decide the film is about equality and "rights", and fighting for those things. Jack and Ennis do not fight for their love or any aspect of its existence - they secretively pursue it in and for itself, for themselves. They run risks in so doing, and never feel comfortable. They would have no idea what "rights" or "equality" for "gay people" or "gay love" were the idea ever reached their awareness.

Because it is not society or lack of rights or equality, or even fear of physical violence and the tire iron, that prevents their love from achieving permanence and growth, it is their own -- most certainly Ennis's -- internalised homophobic self-loathing and complete inability to conceive of their love in terms that are comparable with straight relationships.

So it is interesting to see what Annie P. has to say about them making love. It is a spectacularly louche scene not reproduced in the movie: within 20 minutes they were jouncing (a new word for me = making it bounce up and down) the bed. Then, when they were done, the room "stank of semen and smoke and sweat and whiskey, of old carpet and sour hay, saddle leather, shit and cheap soap". Ennis lay there, naked and spread-eagle on the bed, still half erect, soaked in sex and sweat, breathing deeply, and Jack says "Christ it got a be all that time a yours ahorseback makes it so goddam good"... And a few minutes later Ennis says: "I like doin it with women, yeah, but Jesus H., ain't nothin like this."

For all that, there is no suggestion that they think they are part of any general or more widespread "sensibility", that their feelings and experiences were shared by others and capable of being given a place in the social-family order. Even if Jack wants to spend his life with Ennis, it is a unique response to their own special experience. As Ennis says: "Shit, I been lookin at people in the street. This happen a other people? What the hell do they do?" To which Jack replies: "It don't happen in Wyomin and if it does I don't know what they do, maybe go to Denver... and I don't give a flyin fuck."

I really do think BBM is a universal movie, with which all kinds and conditions of people can identify, but not in the physicality of gay love-making, or the worthiness of gay people for equal rights. The identification comes with wrong choices, lost love, error, inadequacy, failure to understand in time - with all the mistakes and errors and pain we have all endured and brought on ourselves, and the terrible consequences of acting against our natures and against our needs for reasons we believe higher or more powerful.




Very well stated and excellently thought out position, Hayek. You are correct, there is a tendency among people with a strong political or social POV to see things in art, literature, the news, pop culture, movies, books, etc, that place credibility, support or validation to their "cause" when there really is none. I agree with you on this, but it is ever so easy to fall into that position, no question.

Further, I agree that is seems somewhat unbelievable that the reunion scene could make straight people stop thinking about gay love as a foreign concept unless they had been seasoned in this regard well before. While the film provides much to alter one's opinoin on the subject, I do not think a two hour film can do what years in therapy could not.

Separately, and back on track with the thread, the intense hug in the parking area was the only scene in the film that I thought Hollywood embelished. In 1967, men were not hugging each other as a greeting or goodbye. Hearty hand shakes were the order of the day. In the open light of day in WY, in spite of the anxiousness both were feeling, it would have been much more true that they would have shaken hands vigorously, punched each others arms, maybe a head lock, wrestlying sort of endearment, and then hustle off to the shadows of the stairwell to embrace.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: SquallCloud on February 06, 2006, 08:54:44 AM
Although I do understand and for the most part agree with your take on things hayek I have to say that it would probably not be a coherent reading of the text to mix Annie's Ennis with McMurtry/Osana/Lee's Ennis or Annie's Jack with M/O/L's Jack because the characterization is subtle in parts but especially in the case of Ennis, all the little tweaks add up to a very different man. Ennis is far more closed off in the film and has way more trouble verbalizing his feelings. He also seems to suffer from more denial and self loathing. Jack is almost the same but seems to be more honest. I havn't read the story in a bit but I'm reminded about how he told Ennis the truth about Aguirre in the story but movie Jack knew it would be completely unwise to tell his skittish horse that someone had seen them making love on BBM.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: cythera4 on February 06, 2006, 08:55:55 AM
In the same way, I don't see how people, gay or straight, could possibly decide the film is about equality and "rights", and fighting for those things. Jack and Ennis do not fight for their love or any aspect of its existence - they secretively pursue it in and for itself, for themselves. They run risks in so doing, and never feel comfortable. They would have no idea what "rights" or "equality" for "gay people" or "gay love" were the idea ever reached their awareness.
Quote

Well, that's the point, isn't it. That's the tragedy. They live in a world where they have no access to such claims and definitions. That's their tragedy--and ours. I'd hate to think you'd want to keep them in the closet--and the rest of us too.

Quote
Because it is not society or lack of rights or equality, or even fear of physical violence and the tire iron, that prevents their love from achieving permanence and growth, it is their own -- most certainly Ennis's -- internalised homophobic self-loathing and complete inability to conceive of their love in terms that are comparable with straight relationships.
Quote

Why is it either-or? Can't it be both? Do you think his internalized homophobia has *nothing* to do with fear of social reprisal? And *why* can't Ennis "conceive of his love in terms that are comparable with straight relationships?" Because straights treat their love with contempt, revulsion, and violence.

I have to admit, part of what moves me against the "universal love" reading is the tortured defenses of it people have to come up with to elide the fact that this is clearly a story about gay love and the personal and social price it had to pay in a specific historical/cultural context.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: SquallCloud on February 06, 2006, 08:58:01 AM
I know I'm getting away from the current topic on the table but I just had to say that I love how Jack/Jake breathes in Ennis/Heath's hair when he speaks to him, like he's savoring his favorite dish or something. Very nice.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: cythera4 on February 06, 2006, 09:00:35 AM
I know I'm getting away from the current topic on the table but I just had to say that I love how Jack/Jake breathes in Ennis/Heath's hair when he speaks to him, like he's savoring his favorite dish or something. Very nice.

Does he say something at the very end, as he's trying to gather himself to go up to Alma? They're still in a clinch, clothes askew, totally lost in one another, and Ennis disentangles himself and, I think, mumbles something to Jack before heading up the stairs. Is it "Later"?--saying, we can do what we want to do later, we have to find a place to be alone...?
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: HerrKaiser on February 06, 2006, 09:06:51 AM
In the same way, I don't see how people, gay or straight, could possibly decide the film is about equality and "rights", and fighting for those things. Jack and Ennis do not fight for their love or any aspect of its existence - they secretively pursue it in and for itself, for themselves. They run risks in so doing, and never feel comfortable. They would have no idea what "rights" or "equality" for "gay people" or "gay love" were the idea ever reached their awareness.
Quote

Well, that's the point, isn't it. That's the tragedy. They live in a world where they have no access to such claims and definitions. That's their tragedy--and ours. I'd hate to think you'd want to keep them in the closet--and the rest of us too.

Quote
Because it is not society or lack of rights or equality, or even fear of physical violence and the tire iron, that prevents their love from achieving permanence and growth, it is their own -- most certainly Ennis's -- internalised homophobic self-loathing and complete inability to conceive of their love in terms that are comparable with straight relationships.
Quote

Why is it either-or? Can't it be both? Do you think his internalized homophobia has *nothing* to do with fear of social reprisal? And *why* can't Ennis "conceive of his love in terms that are comparable with straight relationships?" Because straights treat their love with contempt, revulsion, and violence.

I have to admit, part of what moves me against the "universal love" reading is the tortured defenses of it people have to come up with to elide the fact that this is clearly a story about gay love and the personal and social price it had to pay in a specific historical/cultural context.

"Tortured defenses...."? Some of the thoughts, analysis and opinions may be torturous to read, but that is what free thinking is about. I"ve read through most of the comments (made alot of my own!) on the univerals love ideas and nowhere have I seen anyone suggesting the film is NOT about a gay love story. Rather, the film uses this timely, unique, and obviously interesting, controverial, and NEW platform to put forth a story about forbidden love. Yes, here it is a gay love story, but a Muslim and Jew in Jersusalem who are in love may well see the meaning of the film in their own lives.

The story and film should not owned by gays, rather it should be shared. My life as my own Ennis Del Mar would have been a bit more happy and fufilled had I not fallen for gay community notion that being gay meant having to build a fence around your life, majorly cut off from the rest of society. Hmmmm. thanks for listening.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: EnnisAndJack4ever on February 06, 2006, 09:08:37 AM
You go cythera4! You're my kind of gal, I'm take it, no gender symbol there to know for certain. This topic makes my blood boil, so I'd be hesitant to enter the debate, but keep up the good fight!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: HerrKaiser on February 06, 2006, 09:10:31 AM
You go cythera4! You're my kind of gal, I'm take it, no gender symbol there to know for certain. This topic makes my blood boil, so I'd be hesitant to enter the debate, but keep up the good fight!

What topic is blood boiling? thanks.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: cythera4 on February 06, 2006, 09:12:26 AM
The story and film should not owned by gays, rather it should be shared. My life as my own Ennis Del Mar would have been a bit more happy and fufilled had I not fallen for gay community notion that being gay meant having to build a fence around your life, majorly cut off from the rest of society. Hmmmm. thanks for listening.

I'm sorry you ever felt you had to do such things. I never did. Being part of a "gay community" has been the most liberating and joyous aspect of my life. It has meant, for me, removing fences, knocking down walls. And if gays are "cut off from the rest of society," it's odd that you would blame gay people for that!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: SquallCloud on February 06, 2006, 09:21:23 AM
I know I'm getting away from the current topic on the table but I just had to say that I love how Jack/Jake breathes in Ennis/Heath's hair when he speaks to him, like he's savoring his favorite dish or something. Very nice.

Does he say something at the very end, as he's trying to gather himself to go up to Alma? They're still in a clinch, clothes askew, totally lost in one another, and Ennis disentangles himself and, I think, mumbles something to Jack before heading up the stairs. Is it "Later"?--saying, we can do what we want to do later, we have to find a place to be alone...?

I was actually referring to the hotel scene in that sequence but I know what you mean at the end of the kiss. He does seem to mumble something but I cant' tell. I like them breaking away from each other more than I do teh kiss itself. Their both just so damn hungry.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: 909dot on February 06, 2006, 09:28:42 AM
I know I'm getting away from the current topic on the table but I just had to say that I love how Jack/Jake breathes in Ennis/Heath's hair when he speaks to him, like he's savoring his favorite dish or something. Very nice.

Does he say something at the very end, as he's trying to gather himself to go up to Alma? They're still in a clinch, clothes askew, totally lost in one another, and Ennis disentangles himself and, I think, mumbles something to Jack before heading up the stairs. Is it "Later"?--saying, we can do what we want to do later, we have to find a place to be alone...?

He says "c'mon..." I would think to say,,,"we gotta stop now, so we can go upstairs for you to meet my wife.." but as usuall, Ennis's few words say allot...like we will continue this later mister and we cant do it in the front yard..." ::)
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: hayek_uk on February 06, 2006, 09:30:09 AM
I don't want to deny or decry anyone identifying with anything in the film. Sceptical I might be of some of the claims that are made, but it's not for me or anyone else to lay down what you can or can't get out of the movie.

Quote
I have to say that it would probably not be a coherent reading of the text to mix Annie's Ennis with McMurtry/Osana/Lee's Ennis or Annie's Jack with M/O/L's Jack because the characterization is subtle in parts but especially in the case of Ennis, all the little tweaks add up to a very different man. Ennis is far more closed off in the film and has way more trouble verbalizing his feelings. He also seems to suffer from more denial and self loathing. Jack is almost the same but seems to be more honest.

I do agree with that. But in attempting to understand the movie, the story is the best first reference. The scene I discussed does not occur in the movie and the words spoken are largely absent from it - so it sets up an interesting tension.


If this movie does challenge straight people, it challenges gay people too. It demands a lot of soul-searching and re-examination of what being gay is assumed to be.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: cythera4 on February 06, 2006, 09:50:16 AM
If this movie does challenge straight people, it challenges gay people too. It demands a lot of soul-searching and re-examination of what being gay is assumed to be.

Hmm? Can you say more? In other words, it's not a good idea to act effeminate? For instance?
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: HerrKaiser on February 06, 2006, 10:18:06 AM
I do not know what acting effeminate has to do with self inspection, either straight or gay.

But, let's face it, both Ennis and Jack are without question masculine in their every behavior and actions. Had they been portrayed as effeminate men or effeminate men in another setting, the movie would not have yielded the public interest and support it has garnered.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: cythera4 on February 06, 2006, 10:20:16 AM
I do not know what acting effeminate has to do with self inspection, either straight or gay.

But, let's face it, both Ennis and Jack are without question masculine in their every behavior and actions. Had they been portrayed as effeminate men or effeminate men in another setting, the movie would not have yielded the public interest and support it has garnered.

And that's my point, exactly. Their obvious "masculinity" permits the larger public to embrace the film. But it also permits the continuation of a tendency to stigmatize effeminate gay men. That's the price of assimiliationism.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: 909dot on February 06, 2006, 10:35:14 AM
BROKEBACK is # 4 at the box office!!!! history is indeed being made!!!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: SquallCloud on February 06, 2006, 10:40:17 AM
Hmmm I think you may be right but isn't there a lot of representations of the effeminate gay man in society? Look at QaF. It was fairly mainstream. The tendency though is to play the effeminate gay man as a joke like W&G which I happened to find funny up until last year when the writers seemed to stop caring, but the revolutionary thing about this movie is that it shows two men loving each other without the benifit of gay lifestyle. They can no more control their attraction to one another than they can change the flow of the river they sit by but they "aint queer". There is no nurture going on. No media portrayals that they are emulating, no "scene" to be part of, just simple honest human emotion. Basically, it's saying homosexual tendencies aren't a learned behavior.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: cythera4 on February 06, 2006, 10:43:15 AM
This debate belongs under another thread, probably. Under the "impact" section maybe.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: HerrKaiser on February 06, 2006, 10:50:57 AM
I did not see that point made, sorry.

Nonetheless, are you suggesting that the plot could have/should have been about two, for example, effeminate clerk's at Macy's who use the dressing rooms for their 2-4 times a year rendevouses? Not the same film at all; in fact those films have been made.

BBM is a breakthrough film BECAUSE it shows that two, non-stereotypical men are/can be in love. Not in spite of it! As a result, the openness and understanding that this "thing" is not relegated to the limped-wristed, feminine types allows for a new and vitalized look at homosexual lives and behaviors.

the masculine characters neither allows the stigmatization of feminine men to continue, nor does it endorse it. Rather, it underscores the fact that, perhaps unknown by most people before, homosexuals have a range of personaolities and behaviors. This leads to a greater understanding, not a lessening. It tends to validate, not criticize.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: valkyrie on February 06, 2006, 10:54:14 AM

Does he say something at the very end, as he's trying to gather himself to go up to Alma? They're still in a clinch, clothes askew, totally lost in one another, and Ennis disentangles himself and, I think, mumbles something to Jack before heading up the stairs. Is it "Later"?--saying, we can do what we want to do later, we have to find a place to be alone...?
Quote

I hear Ennis says "Wait" and a little wistful smile comes across Jacks face.

It is very enlighten for me to read your thought and opinions on gay love /universal love / rights and so on. I shall not venture into that debate, feeling you say is so much better. Let me just add that as a basically straight woman (unfortunately not much inkling the other way), to know gay and lesbians, to see and feel and read about gay/lesbian love makes me feel whole as a human being. A society that only accept and make visible only straight love, is a horrendous society I shall never accept. I need to be surrounded by love unfolding the various hues of the rainbow, providing it is between consenting adults.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: helen_uk on February 06, 2006, 11:00:58 AM
I think he says "later" to Jack just before they go up the stairs.  Apparently he also says "c'm'ere" as well, indicating that they should go up into the flat.  What's really interesting about the reunion scene  is that all Ennis' defences are down.  Look at how open he is whilst he's waiting for Jack to arrive.  He runs down to meet him, and completely loses himself.  At that moment he isn't repressed, fearful, ashamed or any of the other things we associate with him.  He even looks a different person at this point.  It's reminiscent of a couple of the scenes on the mountain (e.g when they are playing whilst being watched by Aguirre, and the dozy embrace), and shows us how Ennis could be if he wasn't so wrapped up in his anxiety most of the time.

Joyous.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: hayek_uk on February 06, 2006, 11:11:59 AM
If this movie does challenge straight people, it challenges gay people too. It demands a lot of soul-searching and re-examination of what being gay is assumed to be.

Hmm? Can you say more? In other words, it's not a good idea to act effeminate? For instance?

Do we do whatever we do as a survival strategy, or as an expression of what we really feel we are?

Do we feel good about ourselves when we say and do things, or do we really hate oursleves?
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: valkyrie on February 06, 2006, 11:12:05 AM
Hi Helen, from the same timezone. Evening now and time to be deep into BBM again. (Well, when am I not?) Jack and Ennis' hunger and losing themselves in each other, makes me tend to think that they both would also be rather exploratory in their way of making love. The bottomed and top, or however it is phrased, seems not applicable to my understand of them. When they were together and alone, they seem so free to me concerning sex. Perhaps it's just my wistful thinking?
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: cythera4 on February 06, 2006, 11:18:42 AM
I did not see that point made, sorry.

Nonetheless, are you suggesting that the plot could have/should have been about two, for example, effeminate clerk's at Macy's who use the dressing rooms for their 2-4 times a year rendevouses? Not the same film at all; in fact those films have been made.

BBM is a breakthrough film BECAUSE it shows that two, non-stereotypical men are/can be in love. Not in spite of it! As a result, the openness and understanding that this "thing" is not relegated to the limped-wristed, feminine types allows for a new and vitalized look at homosexual lives and behaviors.

the masculine characters neither allows the stigmatization of feminine men to continue, nor does it endorse it. Rather, it underscores the fact that, perhaps unknown by most people before, homosexuals have a range of personaolities and behaviors. This leads to a greater understanding, not a lessening. It tends to validate, not criticize.


I read a lot of criticism in your "two, for example, effeminate clerk's at Macy's who use the dressing rooms for their 2-4 times a year rendevouses" crack. It speaks volumes, frankly.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: helen_uk on February 06, 2006, 11:19:26 AM
I just had to say that I love how Jack/Jake breathes in Ennis/Heath's hair when he speaks to him, like he's savoring his favorite dish or something. Very nice.

I love that bit too. 
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: helen_uk on February 06, 2006, 11:21:31 AM

Do we do whatever we do as a survival strategy, or as an expression of what we really feel we are?

Do we feel good about ourselves when we say and do things, or do we really hate oursleves?

Is this about the reunion scene?  Or would the topic be better off being continued under the impact catagory?  :)
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: cythera4 on February 06, 2006, 11:22:47 AM
Do we do whatever we do as a survival strategy, or as an expression of what we really feel we are?

Do we feel good about ourselves when we say and do things, or do we really hate oursleves?

This is too abstract for me. Can you specify what concretely in the movie is speaking to these questions. And how is it asking gay people to rethink themselves? If you're saying the movie is a powerful indictment of living a closeted existence and of the psychologically deforming effects of internalized homophobia, then I agree with you 100%.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: helen_uk on February 06, 2006, 11:28:44 AM
and then Ennis crying by the fire while Jack rubs his face
I can't see Ennis crying in this scene, even when I look closely at the screencaps.  Is he really crying?  It would make the scene even more tragic and tender if he was.  I just LOVE that scene.  So beautiful when Jack reaches over with his hand, with such a concerned and loving look on his face.

Ennis cries a couple of times during the reunion scene.  Although, when I say 'crying', he doesn't actual shed tears.  In the motel when he is saying that they can't do anything about the situation that they're in and that he's stuck with his life you can see his eyes shining, and he shuts them tightly to stop the tears.  Likewise when Jack leans across when they are in front of the fire to stroke his face you can see Ennis' mouth and face move in such a way that implies he is only just stopping the tears from flowing.  I don't see watery eyes, but the rest implies that he is welling up.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: cythera4 on February 06, 2006, 11:36:57 AM
Ennis cries a couple of times during the reunion scene.  Although, when I say 'crying', he doesn't actual shed tears.  In the motel when he is saying that they can't do anything about the situation that they're in and that he's stuck with his life you can see his eyes shining, and he shuts them tightly to stop the tears.  Likewise when Jack leans across when they are in front of the fire to stroke his face you can see Ennis' mouth and face move in such a way that implies he is only just stopping the tears from flowing.  I don't see watery eyes, but the rest implies that he is welling up.

I see this too. I think he starts welling up here because, after telling Jack they can't be together, Jack reaches to stroke his face, and he realizes in a flash that it is precisely such gestures of unadorned tenderness from the man he loves that he is rejecting as a full and continuous part of his life.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: hayek_uk on February 06, 2006, 11:38:08 AM
Do we do whatever we do as a survival strategy, or as an expression of what we really feel we are?

Do we feel good about ourselves when we say and do things, or do we really hate oursleves?

This is too abstract for me. Can you specify what concretely in the movie is speaking to these questions. And how is it asking gay people to rethink themselves? If you're saying the movie is a powerful indictment of living a closeted existence and of the psychologically deforming effects of internalized homophobia, then I agree with you 100%.

Yes I am. And that a lot of the things we take to be resistance to and rejection of internalized homophobia can turn out to be just another form of it. But what those things might be only an individual will be able to say -- does the life and personality he/she has built up, open or closeted or bits of both, reflect his/her inner feelings? Most important, how honest are his/her relations with the ones he/she loves most?
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: cythera4 on February 06, 2006, 11:41:57 AM
Yes I am. And that a lot of the things we take to be resistance to and rejection of internalized homophobia can turn out to be just another form of it.

I don't understand this, I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: EnnisAndJack4ever on February 06, 2006, 11:54:18 AM
Ennis cries a couple of times during the reunion scene.  Although, when I say 'crying', he doesn't actual shed tears.  In the motel when he is saying that they can't do anything about the situation that they're in and that he's stuck with his life you can see his eyes shining, and he shuts them tightly to stop the tears.  Likewise when Jack leans across when they are in front of the fire to stroke his face you can see Ennis' mouth and face move in such a way that implies he is only just stopping the tears from flowing.  I don't see watery eyes, but the rest implies that he is welling up.

He's also welling up when he enters and lies down during the second tent seen, or maybe he does cry a little, can't remember. He certainly looks like he's going to cry.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: HerrKaiser on February 06, 2006, 11:54:55 AM
I did not see that point made, sorry.

Nonetheless, are you suggesting that the plot could have/should have been about two, for example, effeminate clerk's at Macy's who use the dressing rooms for their 2-4 times a year rendevouses? Not the same film at all; in fact those films have been made.

BBM is a breakthrough film BECAUSE it shows that two, non-stereotypical men are/can be in love. Not in spite of it! As a result, the openness and understanding that this "thing" is not relegated to the limped-wristed, feminine types allows for a new and vitalized look at homosexual lives and behaviors.

the masculine characters neither allows the stigmatization of feminine men to continue, nor does it endorse it. Rather, it underscores the fact that, perhaps unknown by most people before, homosexuals have a range of personaolities and behaviors. This leads to a greater understanding, not a lessening. It tends to validate, not criticize.


I read a lot of criticism in your "two, for example, effeminate clerk's at Macy's who use the dressing rooms for their 2-4 times a year rendevouses" crack. It speaks volumes, frankly.

Sorry for the missread criticism; I am not criticising any one or anything at all. Apologize for any hurt feelings. Just trying to understand what validation you are seeking from THIS film for effeminate acting gay men? I just do not understand your linkage and I (as well as others perhaps) are trying to get your point. thanks!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: hayek_uk on February 06, 2006, 12:01:03 PM
Yes I am. And that a lot of the things we take to be resistance to and rejection of internalized homophobia can turn out to be just another form of it.

I don't understand this, I'm afraid.
Sorry to keep batting back and forth and making no sense. Perhaps one area (and only one of vey many) would involve the fact that living a life that is "out" in all respects is incredibly hard, and we have hardly even begun. (But to say more would need hypothetical examples, or to go deeply into my own life. I suppose I am saying that suppose Jack and Ennis did overcome the constraints of time and place, and did begin their lives together. How would they have dealt with issues like monogomy, fidelity, conflict, selfishness, material greed in their relations with one another?)
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: peteinportland on February 06, 2006, 12:04:29 PM
I will take some blame for sparking the universal vs gay love story debate here; however, I specifically linked it back to the reunion scene as I feel this is where the universal part really comes into play.

However, if comments relating to this topic cannot be linked to the Reunion scene, please take them to Impact. I appreciate those of you who have already offered. I know sometimes the organic discussions on this site are hard to keep in the right spot. It is why we all love posting here IMO. The discussion is so very rich. Thanks!

Last, yes I do see tears when Jack is stroking Ennis' face. Ennis is heart broken that he can't act on Jack's dreams. I also saw the tears in the motel bed. This is why I've never understood people who feel Ennis is cold to Jack. Gosh, we see him heartbroken so much. The reunion scene is (as I've said before) an Opera in 10 minutes of film making. We go from absolute joy to absolute heartbreak in a matter of minutes (same with the second truck scene with Ennis and Jack and his daughters).
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: SquallCloud on February 06, 2006, 12:12:41 PM
I did not see that point made, sorry.

Nonetheless, are you suggesting that the plot could have/should have been about two, for example, effeminate clerk's at Macy's who use the dressing rooms for their 2-4 times a year rendevouses? Not the same film at all; in fact those films have been made.

BBM is a breakthrough film BECAUSE it shows that two, non-stereotypical men are/can be in love. Not in spite of it! As a result, the openness and understanding that this "thing" is not relegated to the limped-wristed, feminine types allows for a new and vitalized look at homosexual lives and behaviors.

the masculine characters neither allows the stigmatization of feminine men to continue, nor does it endorse it. Rather, it underscores the fact that, perhaps unknown by most people before, homosexuals have a range of personaolities and behaviors. This leads to a greater understanding, not a lessening. It tends to validate, not criticize.


I read a lot of criticism in your "two, for example, effeminate clerk's at Macy's who use the dressing rooms for their 2-4 times a year rendevouses" crack. It speaks volumes, frankly.

Sorry for the missread criticism; I am not criticising any one or anything at all. Apologize for any hurt feelings. Just trying to understand what validation you are seeking from THIS film for effeminate acting gay men? I just do not understand your linkage and I (as well as others perhaps) are trying to get your point. thanks!

Join me in the SPOILER FREE: Cultural Impact thread. I think I'd like to try and answer this.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: cythera4 on February 06, 2006, 12:41:02 PM
Join me in the SPOILER FREE: Cultural Impact thread. I think I'd like to try and answer this.

Good idea. I just did. It's an important issue but belongs in another thread.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Destina on February 06, 2006, 09:01:55 PM
Hello all.   :)  This is my first post to the forum. I'm a little nervous. *g*  Not to interrupt the other discussions going on here -- I've been fascinated by the comments, and have been reading straight through every thread -- but I just wanted to mention three of my favorite things about the reunion scene, most of which I noticed after, er, many viewings. Heh.

1. When Alma opens the door and sees Ennis and Jack kissing, and the camera cuts to them, to show what she sees -- there's a difference in the level of aggression between the first kiss, and the second. When they break, and Ennis pulls his arm down from around Jack's neck to place his hands on Jack's face again, they kiss again, but much more slowly the second time. (Guh.)

2. After Alma has closed the door and while Ennis is trying to disentangle himself from Jack, he takes hold of Jack's collar and then looks up, looks Jack in the eyes, for a brief moment. To me, that's one of the most amazing (and flat-out erotic) moments in the film. There's just something about it...Ennis can barely look anyone in the eye throughout this movie, and he's even had trouble looking Jack in the eye during intimate moments. But here -- the way he looks at him speaks eloquently of the depth of intimacy in their relationship, even after four years' separation, and it just kills me.

3. In the brief scene where Jack meets Alma, Jack licks his lips twice and Ennis licks his once. Honestly, all that lip licking...it's like they can still taste each other, it's like they can't stop.  Also, Jack can't stop looking at Ennis's lips. Which Ennis is licking. 

Is it hot in here, or is it just me? *g*

Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: cythera4 on February 06, 2006, 09:03:25 PM
Is it hot in here, or is it just me? *g*


It's hot in here *because* of you. Thanx for the memories, and welcome!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: aevkc on February 06, 2006, 09:08:33 PM
Hi, Destina.  Welcome.  I love the way they look at each other when they get up to the apartment too.  I especially like how pretty much every time they make eye contact, Jack then looks down at the floor, almost like he has to look away or he won't be able to stop himself from kissing Ennis. 
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: cythera4 on February 06, 2006, 09:11:36 PM
Hi, Destina.  Welcome.  I love the way they look at each other when they get up to the apartment too.  I especially like how pretty much every time they make eye contact, Jack then looks down at the floor, almost like he has to look away or he won't be able to stop himself from kissing Ennis. 

Yeah, and what's so ironic (and painful) about this is that Alma knows it.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: SquallCloud on February 06, 2006, 09:16:06 PM
Yah there is no words for the hotness of them trying to disentangle themselves from one another. And I noticed the slower more sensual kissing from Alma's POV too! The slamming into the wall is impactful but not hot like the sensual lip smacking kissing.

Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ingmarnicebbmt on February 07, 2006, 05:23:48 AM
I like your observation about the lip-licking. Good analysis - and so appetizing! ;D
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ellye on February 07, 2006, 05:54:19 AM

Ennis cries a couple of times during the reunion scene.  Although, when I say 'crying', he doesn't actual shed tears.  In the motel when he is saying that they can't do anything about the situation that they're in and that he's stuck with his life you can see his eyes shining, and he shuts them tightly to stop the tears.  Likewise when Jack leans across when they are in front of the fire to stroke his face you can see Ennis' mouth and face move in such a way that implies he is only just stopping the tears from flowing.  I don't see watery eyes, but the rest implies that he is welling up.

I see exactly the same. The suddenly shiny eyes in bed after a long pause when Jack asks what they do now and he looks so sad before speaks ... and by the fire, I see it twice.  When he says, "If you can't fix it, Jack, you gotta stand it" his mouth, you just have to watch his mouth after he says that, it's like when you try to stop your lips trembling cos you want to cry. He looks just like that.

And when he says, "there's no reins on this one" .... when Jack touches his face, you see him swallow and that little mouth thing again. I think it was Jack's touch and the way he strokes his face that causes that particular reaction.

So sad.  :'(  :'(  :'(
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Lucee on February 07, 2006, 09:49:51 AM
Yah there is no words for the hotness of them trying to disentangle themselves from one another. And I noticed the slower more sensual kissing from Alma's POV too! The slamming into the wall is impactful but not hot like the sensual lip smacking kissing.

I also noticed the way they have their hands on each other's faces (which is seen in earlier scenes as well).  It just seems to convey a heightened level of intamacy, passion, and excitement between them (and makes me weak in the knees to see it!).
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ellye on February 07, 2006, 03:44:42 PM
Hi, Destina.  Welcome.  I love the way they look at each other when they get up to the apartment too.  I especially like how pretty much every time they make eye contact, Jack then looks down at the floor, almost like he has to look away or he won't be able to stop himself from kissing Ennis. 

Yeah, and what's so ironic (and painful) about this is that Alma knows it.

I love what it says in the screen play about the mood and emotion of this scene.

After Alma says 'hello'

'ENNIS, his chest heaving, does not turn away from ALMA, but can still smell Jack ... the intensely familiar odour of cigarettes, musky sweat, and a faint sweetness like grass, and with it the rushing cold of the mountains.

ALMA has seen what she has seen, having aged years in the space of a few moments: sees her husbands turmoil ... and notices JACK's trembling hands.


This is followed by Jack saying, "You got a kid" - in a voice that 'trembles'

And when he talks about having a boy, and being married to Lureen, it says he says it 'halting, very aware of Alma'

And at the end of that the words:

ENNIS is eager to leave ..

And then he says that bit about going for a drink with Jack ...

Jack's voice didn't tremble, but he did look uncomfortable. And I think the rest of it was conveyed on screen as it was in the words. Ennis was certainly eager to leave!

And it's interesting the next day when Ennis goes home that it makes the point Alma is 'confused, yet relieve Ennis came back home'

Did she expect him not to?!  It says she keeps trying to catch his eye and he tries to ignore her. I thought that was a very noticeable thing, the way he couldn't look at her and when he did, just before he leaves, I'd love to know what was in his mind. He kisses her almost apologetically ... but then you get the impression he forgot about her the second he was out the door, he was so eager to get to Jack and get away.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: helen_uk on February 07, 2006, 03:49:26 PM
He seemed surprised to see Alma when he popped in the next morning to get his gear.  I wondered if it was really early and he didn't expect her to be up.

I noticed that Jack was very breathless when he was talking, even though his voice didn't tremble.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: sparkle on February 07, 2006, 05:33:11 PM
And when [Ennis] says, "there's no reins on this one" .... when Jack touches his face, you see him swallow and that little mouth thing again. I think it was Jack's touch and the way he strokes his face that causes that particular reaction.

So sad.  :'(  :'(  :'(

The last time I saw this scene, at the point that the camera switches from the closeups to a wider shot of them both by the river (Jack's hand still touching Ennis' face), I thought I saw JACK welling up too, even from that distance.  It was very brief ... but the firelight seemed to reflect in his eyes as if they were very wet (no doubt devastated to realize that their reunion would not be permanent).

Did anyone else see this? 
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: cythera4 on February 07, 2006, 05:41:55 PM
The last time I saw this scene, at the point that the camera switches from the closeups to a wider shot of them both by the river (Jack's hand still touching Ennis' face), I thought I saw JACK welling up too, even from that distance.  It was very brief ... but the firelight seemed to reflect in his eyes as if they were very wet (no doubt devastated to realize that their reunion would not be permanent).

Did anyone else see this? 

I did indeed. It's the moment when they both realize the future that is mapped out for them--or at least, Ennis fully does. Jack is still capable of making a mistake about this, as when he misinterprets the postcard about Ennis's divorce. But this moment is so full of pain for both of them b/c the future they could have had is glimmering there just beyond the firelight, as if they could both almost just touch it....
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: aevkc on February 07, 2006, 06:30:47 PM
"as if they could both almost just touch it...."  Now I'M the one whose eyes are welling up.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: cythera4 on February 07, 2006, 06:34:30 PM
"as if they could both almost just touch it...."  Now I'M the one whose eyes are welling up.

The movie gets you good, doesn't it?

Hey, I have a question about the reuinion scene. There's so much going on involving Ennis and Alma, but what do you think Jack is feeling when he first sees Ennis? He looks, frankly, a bit stunned that Ennis takes charge the way he does and kisses him.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: bluehorse on February 07, 2006, 06:47:47 PM
I agree. Even with red-lining it the whole way in wild anticipation, I think he does look stunned, maybe so much pent-up desire, expectation, hope and when the moment is actually here he's a bit shy, or moved, hmmmmmmm, actually probably floored by the volcano that is Ennis, last encounter just a: see you around, and now this raging abandon. Ah, swoon!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: cythera4 on February 07, 2006, 06:53:20 PM
I agree. Even with red-lining it the whole way in wild anticipation, I think he does look stunned, maybe so much pent-up desire, expectation, hope and when the moment is actually here he's a bit shy, or moved, hmmmmmmm, actually probably floored by the volcano that is Ennis, last encounter just a: see you around, and now this raging abandon. Ah, swoon!

Exactly. He must be thinking: Jesus, I thought there was maybe 20% chance I could seduce him into a quick handjob, and instead he attacks and nearly devours me. You can see he has to gather himself, but then he pushes right back, with equal intensity. Swoon indeed....
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: aevkc on February 07, 2006, 06:55:51 PM
I thought he looked shocked also.  When he first pulls back after the hug he's watching Ennis' lips, but then when Ennis grabs his shirt and starts pushing him backward he has a look on his face like, "What the #*$#?"  I think Jack didn't know if Ennis was going to be able to acknowledge what was between them or if he was going to deny it.  But once Ennis kisses him, the look on Jack's face is so intense and wonderful.  He finally knows that Ennis missed him as much as he missed Ennis and that Ennis wants this as much as Jack.  Then when Jack shoves Ennis back into the wall.  Holy crap.  Other than the second night in the tent, it's the absolute sexiest thing I've seen in my life. 
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: cythera4 on February 07, 2006, 06:58:36 PM
He finally knows that Ennis missed him as much as he missed Ennis and that Ennis wants this as much as Jack.  Then when Jack shoves Ennis back into the wall.  Holy crap.  Other than the second night in the tent, it's the absolute sexiest thing I've seen in my life. 

Ditto. It's even sexier in some ways b/c the second tent scene shows Ennis's trepidation and hesitancy. This is fullbore Ennis, goin for the gusto. Jack must have thought he'd died and gone to heaven.

Now, if only they'd filmed a hardcore version of the motel scene. I'd pay a year's salary to see it.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: aevkc on February 07, 2006, 07:31:46 PM
Cythera4, I'm with you.  As a straight female I had no idea this would guy on guy action would be so freakin' HOT! 
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: cythera4 on February 07, 2006, 07:35:06 PM
Cythera4, I'm with you.  As a straight female I had no idea this would guy on guy action would be so freakin' HOT! 

We may be dealing with a cross-gender super-sex cultural revolution of some sort....
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Scoutjr on February 07, 2006, 07:48:39 PM
Cythera4, I'm with you.  As a straight female I had no idea this would guy on guy action would be so freakin' HOT! 


Another one here agrees with you! But it also helps that the actors are hot too!  ;)
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: trinket on February 07, 2006, 07:52:35 PM
Cythera4, I'm with you.  As a straight female I had no idea this would guy on guy action would be so freakin' HOT! 


Another one here agrees with you! But it also helps that the actors are hot too!  ;)


I agree also.  As a straight femaile I never thought guy on guy sex would be, well, SEXY.  I ddin't even feel THAT feeling the first time I saw the movie.  But now...oh man..now?  whew, it's mind blowing.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: aevkc on February 07, 2006, 07:59:39 PM
Oh man, the first time I saw it I was with my husband and as soon as the first tent scene started my cheeks got all red and flushed and I started sweating and I didn't calm down until long past the reunion (which almost killed me, for god's sake).  Good thing it was dark in there because I probably looked like I was having a stroke.  I agree, it makes a difference that it was Heath and Jake, as opposed to say, Will Farrel and David Spade (don't ask me where that came from), but even so, I had no idea it would be such a turn on.  Yowza.  I'd rather see Jake with Heath than with a woman any day. 
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Scoutjr on February 07, 2006, 08:16:05 PM
  I'd rather see Jake with Heath than with a woman any day. 

ITTTTTA.  :o
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: alma on February 07, 2006, 08:18:18 PM
Oh man,... I had no idea it would be such a turn on.  Yowza.  I'd rather see Jake with Heath than with a woman any day. 

Same here. In fact, when I listen to ths soundtrack, it is almost impossible for me to imagine that these songs were probably written for men with women originally. I can only hear them as songs for Heath and Jake.

Definitely a turn on....
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: trinket on February 07, 2006, 08:28:49 PM
Oh man, the first time I saw it I was with my husband and as soon as the first tent scene started my cheeks got all red and flushed and I started sweating and I didn't calm down until long past the reunion (which almost killed me, for god's sake).  Good thing it was dark in there because I probably looked like I was having a stroke.  I agree, it makes a difference that it was Heath and Jake, as opposed to say, Will Farrel and David Spade (don't ask me where that came from), but even so, I had no idea it would be such a turn on.  Yowza.  I'd rather see Jake with Heath than with a woman any day. 

Oh my gosh....you have my hysterical!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: kmich on February 07, 2006, 09:16:15 PM
Somehow this scene (Jack's reaction) seems even more powerful than this in the way Jake played it. Being thrown against the wall and mashed into that immensely passionate kiss by Ennis (Ennis? ENNIS???!!!) was a complete shock to poor old Jack. How was he to suspect? It seemed to loose a torrent of emotion within Jack; did he know it was there? And how deep? When they break for just a moment, Jack seems ready to burst into tears at this passion and Ennis' desire for him, so far from Ennis' personality as to be unhoped for. The look in Jack's eyes before the resume is...oh, my! It must have been good for at least 10 of the following years of frustration, a moment on which to build hope.

Yes! I thought so too. Jack just looks like he's going to cry. So amazing. I also love when they're trying to pull apart and get it together to go up and see Alma. Jack won't let go of Ennis and it seems like he's trying to reconnect with Ennis's mouth and kiss him again. And then Ennis kind of nuzzles him and says "Later." Jack's face just looks devastated (in a good way!) with passion. So moving and sexy all at once! This scene literally took my breath away the first time I saw it.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: cythera4 on February 07, 2006, 09:23:12 PM
Yes! I thought so too. Jack just looks like he's going to cry. So amazing. I also love when they're trying to pull apart and get it together to go up and see Alma. Jack won't let go of Ennis and it seems like he's trying to reconnect with Ennis's mouth and kiss him again. And then Ennis kind of nuzzles him and says "Later." Jack's face just looks devastated (in a good way!) with passion. So moving and sexy all at once! This scene literally took my breath away the first time I saw it.

So he definitely says "Later"? I wasn't sure. What I think is so well-acted too too is how is how Ennis, after he's disentangled himself from the love of his life (and the whole *smell* of him, being immersed in Jasck again after 4 years apart), has to look around before heading up the stairs. Even at this moment of maximum passion in his life, he has to make sure no one has seen them in the clinch. It's so sad.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Boris on February 08, 2006, 01:56:25 AM
I do not think that he says "later". We just hear it, because it is what his expression says.

Good acting, I would say.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ellye on February 08, 2006, 04:32:55 AM
I do not think that he says "later". We just hear it, because it is what his expression says.

Good acting, I would say.

Well I DEFINETLY hear him say 'later'.He says is softly of course but I heard it the first time I played it. It fitted perfectly in with that moment when Jack was still holding onto him and Ennis was pulling his hands away from his face, saying 'later' as if to say he didn't want to stop either, but they'd continue ... later.  :)

I do love the heavy breathing in this scene! ;D
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: sparkle on February 08, 2006, 06:19:44 AM
Ditto. It's even sexier in some ways b/c the second tent scene shows Ennis's trepidation and hesitancy.

Maybe it can be summed up as:  the second tent scene is about mutual, deep love between two people.  This scene is about the raw desire and unbridled passion that exists between the same two people. 

They were lucky to have both.
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: OnesEnough on February 08, 2006, 06:44:50 AM
... not to mention the fact she sees her husband display a passion she has only imagined

Todd

Ah, yes. Very, very important.
Just imagine what it must have been like for Alma to see Ennis hungrily, feverishly kissing someone else. To know that he could be that way.
Just not with her.

I had a chance to see a friend who was dear to me make out with his girlfriend - I felt choked realizing "I'll never have that" - that's how I relate to Alma in that scene too.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Sue in Baltimore on February 08, 2006, 11:15:56 AM

Maybe it can be summed up as:  the second tent scene is about mutual, deep love between two people.  This scene is about the raw desire and unbridled passion that exists between the same two people. 

They were lucky to have both.

Great points, Sparkle and all.  I also love the reunion scene because it represents the sudden, full-force, 100% confirmation that what's between them wasn't, in fact, a "one-shot thing", despite Ennis's labelling it that way.  Nor was it just two lonely men getting their physical needs met.

Sorry if someone's already posted this next point here - I haven't caught up on all the posts on this thread.  But I was interested to read in Annie's commentary in the story-to-screenplay book about how it wasn't even that rare a thing for men out west who were thrown together away from women for long periods to resort to having sex together, just for the physical release.  She quoted some old ranch guy who'd related that he always sent men to remote places in pairs "so if they get lonely they can poke each other".  That made me realize each of them, Jack and Ennis, could have easily wondered if that's all their Brokeback summer was, or at least, if that's all the other one saw in it.  I mean, geez, two 19yo guys with no women all summer would probably have sex with anything that moved, at least if my memory of 19yo men is accurate.   ;)

So that context makes the reuion all the more poignant and powerful.  Because with the first urgent kisses, it's clear that they mean way, way more to each other than a convenient f**k (pardon my language).  So on top of all the heat generated by that scene, there's the whole, life-changing revelation of what they are to each other...the whole package just blows me away.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: SquallCloud on February 08, 2006, 11:36:06 AM
I agree. Even with red-lining it the whole way in wild anticipation, I think he does look stunned, maybe so much pent-up desire, expectation, hope and when the moment is actually here he's a bit shy, or moved, hmmmmmmm, actually probably floored by the volcano that is Ennis, last encounter just a: see you around, and now this raging abandon. Ah, swoon!

Exactly. He must be thinking: Jesus, I thought there was maybe 20% chance I could seduce him into a quick handjob, and instead he attacks and nearly devours me. You can see he has to gather himself, but then he pushes right back, with equal intensity. Swoon indeed....

OMG! This made me bust out laughing and it is so true. Thanks for this.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: lolita on February 08, 2006, 03:14:50 PM
Does it say in the screen play that he said later?
Cause it sounded like 'wait' to me. :)
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: patroclus on February 08, 2006, 03:34:11 PM
Cythera4, I'm with you.  As a straight female I had no idea this would guy on guy action would be so freakin' HOT! 

There you go - it's exactly as those right wing fundamentalists predicted: you've gone and gotten corrupted by it, haven't you now?!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: aevkc on February 08, 2006, 03:58:34 PM
Patroclus, yeah, according to the right-wingers I'm on a path straight to hell now.  But that's okay.  Frankly, given all the people they think are going to hell, it sounds like a fun and interesting place!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: patroclus on February 08, 2006, 04:11:45 PM
Patroclus, yeah, according to the right-wingers I'm on a path straight to hell now.  But that's okay.  Frankly, given all the people they think are going to hell, it sounds like a fun and interesting place!

Well, according to Jack, that's exactly where him and Ennis are going to be anyway so you can have a ringside seat!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ellye on February 08, 2006, 05:51:09 PM
Does it say in the screen play that he said later?
Cause it sounded like 'wait' to me. :)

He doesn't say anything in the screenplay, it just describes what they do. First words spoken in the screenplay is when Ennis introduces Alma to Jack.

I personally definitely hear him say 'later'. I hear two syllables, not one!  :D

I thought it fitted perfectly with him being the one anxious to leave, saying they were going for a drink. That was his explanation of 'later' to Jack, seeing as they didn't say anything else before they met Alma.

Was to me, anyway.  ;D
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: peteinportland on February 08, 2006, 06:02:18 PM
I always heard that as come er, so he can introduce Jack to Alma. Never heard anything else.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: kmich on February 08, 2006, 06:58:23 PM
Well, I definitely don't want to start another "what did he say?" controversy but I'm pretty positive Ennis says "later." If you watch the clip on the YouTube site, he says it when as he's bringing Jack's arms down and they're in a close-up from the side. Then a second or two later he says "c'mere" and starts to tuck in his shirt and go upstairs.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: peteinportland on February 08, 2006, 07:18:47 PM
Ahh, he makes TWO statements. I think your are right. I know I remember the "come er" part.
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: ToolPackinMama on February 08, 2006, 07:23:43 PM
What I love most about this scene is that Ennis initiates it.
From the moment that he hears Jack's piece of shit truck pull into the parking lot, you can feel his anxiety and overwhelming excitement right through the screen.
It is such an emotional payoff to see Ennis completely out of control.
After all of Jack's wondering and waiting and getting shot down and humiliated in Aguirre's trailer, you can feel Jack's heart soar when he sees the truth for what it is: the man he loves loves him back.

I loved what you said and I agree.  That's what moved me the most about that wonderful scene.  It's totally obvious that the passion is totally mutual.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: sparkle_motion on February 08, 2006, 07:32:23 PM
Well, I definitely don't want to start another "what did he say?" controversy but I'm pretty positive Ennis says "later." If you watch the clip on the YouTube site, he says it when as he's bringing Jack's arms down and they're in a close-up from the side. Then a second or two later he says "c'mere" and starts to tuck in his shirt and go upstairs.

I have that clip and I, uh, watch it over and over...for educational purposes!
When Ennis first grabs Jack's shirt and starts pushing him over to the wall, he says "c'mere". Sexiest thing ever. As for the "later" part, I'm not sold on it. I've listened over and over, but I'm wondering if it could just be one of Ennis' grunts that he does.

I'm new to this board, but I assume y'all have covered the sexy head nuzzle at the end of the reunion smooch fest? One of my favorite parts.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Sue in Baltimore on February 08, 2006, 09:35:32 PM
Well, I'm kinda new on this thread too and I think the "sexy head nuzzle" should definitely be covered again, if necessary, and at great length and in great detail!  I better go view it a few dozen times so I can be prepared to comment in an informed manner.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: memememe on February 08, 2006, 09:46:25 PM
Well, I definitely don't want to start another "what did he say?" controversy but I'm pretty positive Ennis says "later." If you watch the clip on the YouTube site, he says it when as he's bringing Jack's arms down and they're in a close-up from the side. Then a second or two later he says "c'mere" and starts to tuck in his shirt and go upstairs.

I have that clip and I, uh, watch it over and over...for educational purposes!
When Ennis first grabs Jack's shirt and starts pushing him over to the wall, he says "c'mere". Sexiest thing ever. As for the "later" part, I'm not sold on it. I've listened over and over, but I'm wondering if it could just be one of Ennis' grunts that he does.

I'm new to this board, but I assume y'all have covered the sexy head nuzzle at the end of the reunion smooch fest? One of my favorite parts.
It sounds like "Hey....C'mere".
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Jaysmommy on February 08, 2006, 09:58:09 PM
Cythera4, I'm with you.  As a straight female I had no idea this would guy on guy action would be so freakin' HOT! 

We may be dealing with a cross-gender super-sex cultural revolution of some sort....

HOLY CRAP INDEED aevkc!  I am totally with you ladies here. I had no idea I would be so turned on by two guys together! And because it's these 2 incredibly beautiful men, I could sit and watch the reunion kiss all damn day! When Ennis pushes Jack up against the wall, just totally going for it, WOW!
And I too love the expression on Jack's face - shock and awe, oh yeah! More than he might have hoped for, but you can imagine him dreaming this exact scenario as he "redlined it" all the way to Riverton. 

And the way they caress each other's faces, oh God.....I've been aroused by a many a great love scene in my movie-watching history, but nothing has ever brought me to me knees like this. How Jake, Ennis and Ang were able to make these love scenes so intensely believable is beyond my comprehension!

I continue to be astonished by my reaction to this film.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: memememe on February 08, 2006, 10:05:16 PM
Cythera4, I'm with you.  As a straight female I had no idea this would guy on guy action would be so freakin' HOT! 

Okay. This is scary. Of the women I've talked to, none of them are interested in seeing "guy on guy action". Is this what people mean by our "hidden agenda"?
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion this is priceless
Post by: karind1 on February 08, 2006, 10:16:59 PM
SPOILER: Ang Lee recounted in several interviews that when Michelle Williams needed to film a scene in which her character is devastated to discover that her husband is involved with another man, she asked Heath Ledger (her off-screen, as well as on-screen, love interest) and Jake Gyllenhaal to stand off camera and make out for her benefit. Ledger and Gyllenhaal agreed, and when she thought their kissing was not involved enough, she asked them to intensify it.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0388795/trivia
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion this is priceless
Post by: peteinportland on February 08, 2006, 10:44:46 PM
SPOILER: Ang Lee recounted in several interviews that when Michelle Williams needed to film a scene in which her character is devastated to discover that her husband is involved with another man, she asked Heath Ledger (her off-screen, as well as on-screen, love interest) and Jake Gyllenhaal to stand off camera and make out for her benefit. Ledger and Gyllenhaal agreed, and when she thought their kissing was not involved enough, she asked them to intensify it.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0388795/trivia

Karind, you are very sweet; however, we don't need to label spoilers. Thanks for the link.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ToolPackinMama on February 08, 2006, 11:35:31 PM
Cythera4, I'm with you.  As a straight female I had no idea this would guy on guy action would be so freakin' HOT! 

Okay. This is scary. Of the women I've talked to, none of them are interested in seeing "guy on guy action". Is this what people mean by our "hidden agenda"?


Der?  FWIW, I am turned on by Guy-on-Guy action.  Is that wrong?
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: lolita on February 09, 2006, 12:14:43 AM
Straight female here that hasnt seen anything this hot for a long long time...
Its the passion and the fact that they lose total control seeing each other. Even though Ennis is so inhibited, he just cant help himself around the man he loves.
And i dont think its been discussed, correct me if im wrong, one of my fav parts when they first connect and hug.
They are both rocking back and forth holding on so tightly to each other - it just takes me right back to the 2nd tent night when Ennis is being cradled in Jacks arms and there both holding on tightly kind of rocking.
Its like they are just trying to get as close together as possible - absolutely breathtaking.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: memememe on February 09, 2006, 02:31:05 AM

Der?  FWIW, I am turned on by Guy-on-Guy action.  Is that wrong?
As an aside, no offense intended: have you ever watched gay porn? They're way better than straight porn. I've seen both and can attest to that. If you can get your hands on the 70s or early 80s stuff, they're great. They have plots lines, unlike straight porn. Well, not really plot lines, but there's leading up to the sex part.

Hmmm...its 2:30 a.m. Am I a brokeaholic or what?
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ellye on February 09, 2006, 02:42:34 AM
Straight female here that hasnt seen anything this hot for a long long time...
Its the passion and the fact that they lose total control seeing each other. Even though Ennis is so inhibited, he just cant help himself around the man he loves.
And i dont think its been discussed, correct me if im wrong, one of my fav parts when they first connect and hug.

They are both rocking back and forth holding on so tightly to each other - it just takes me right back to the 2nd tent night when Ennis is being cradled in Jacks arms and there both holding on tightly kind of rocking.
Its like they are just trying to get as close together as possible - absolutely breathtaking.

That's how I see it as well, specially as you see Ennis throughout the hug (beginning and end,anyway,which is when we see his face) with his eyes screwed tightly shut as if he's squeezing Jack as tightly as he can manage cos he wants to get as close to him physically as possible ...

And that wonderful almost lost expression on Jack's face when they draw back and he can't take his eyes of Ennis's face - and mouth.

Both are like an instant illustration of the reaction of their emotions at seeing each other again after 4 years ... and the affect it has on them both when they actually touch each other physically.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: SquallCloud on February 09, 2006, 07:03:41 AM
I find Ennis's whole visage very endearing when Jack shows up. From the tight lipped but gleeful smile at seeing Jack step out of the truck to the "Jack Fuckin' Twist": on the landing then the running down the stairs. Then they hug and it's so beautiful and Jack says "Sonofabitch" under his breath. Then the fireworks really go off.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ToolPackinMama on February 09, 2006, 08:25:34 AM

Der?  FWIW, I am turned on by Guy-on-Guy action.  Is that wrong?
As an aside, no offense intended: have you ever watched gay porn?

Hasn't everybody?   ;D
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: SquallCloud on February 09, 2006, 08:28:38 AM

Der?  FWIW, I am turned on by Guy-on-Guy action.  Is that wrong?
As an aside, no offense intended: have you ever watched gay porn?

Hasn't everybody?   ;D

*Raises hand proudly*
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: aevkc on February 09, 2006, 09:16:13 AM
God, I haven't watched it.  Guess I know what I'll be doing this weekend.   ;)
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: cythera4 on February 09, 2006, 10:16:24 AM
God, I haven't watched it.  Guess I know what I'll be doing this weekend.   ;)

Hate to point this out, but you know that there will soon be gay-porn parodies of BBM available. I will not suggest the likely titles, but I'm sure ya'll can guess 'em.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: memememe on February 09, 2006, 11:44:18 AM
God, I haven't watched it.  Guess I know what I'll be doing this weekend.   ;)

Hate to point this out, but you know that there will soon be gay-porn parodies of BBM available. I will not suggest the likely titles, but I'm sure ya'll can guess 'em.
Does it star Paris Hilton or Pamela Sue Anderson or Jessica Simpson? EWWWWWWWWWWW
Someone wash my mouth out with soap.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: aceygirl on February 09, 2006, 12:17:05 PM
God, I haven't watched it.  Guess I know what I'll be doing this weekend.   ;)

Hate to point this out, but you know that there will soon be gay-porn parodies of BBM available. I will not suggest the likely titles, but I'm sure ya'll can guess 'em.

Gee...I wonder... ::)

I am reminded of the oft-said (and rather true) remark that gay men look SO hot in gay porn, while straight men are usually as ugly as sin in straight porn...production values and attempts at plot are also better in the former genre. As for bi porn...well...I haven't seen any truly bi porn at all. :(

One thing about the reunion scene...at first I thought that Ennis's six beers might have had something to do with his heightened reaction at seeing Jack...then I thought, well, he did end up taking a nap. Not that his joy was altered in any real way by the alcohol, but I wondered if there might be some reason to show him drinking so much before the reunion, aside from his killing time in his impatience to see Jack.

One of the sweetest things is his "wearing his best shirt" while waiting for jack...I know that's been mentioned many a time but it is just SO sweet!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: memememe on February 09, 2006, 12:34:55 PM
Doesn't everyone try to look their best when they want to impress someone?
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ellye on February 09, 2006, 01:24:15 PM
Another thing I find sweet and actually funny about the scene when Jack has arrived,  is the look on Ennis's face when he says to Alma that they might not be back that night when they get to drinkin' and talkin' ....
And then he puts on his hat and he can't get out after Jack fast enough!  :D

It's the look on his face and the speed he dashes out after Jack that I find so sweet and funny, cos it's done in almost a comical way - not least because of Ennis's comment about him talking too much! lol!  ;D He was so eager to be with Jack, he clearly wasn't thinking of anything else so he said the first thing that came into his head, is what it seems like!  :D

It's rather sad for Alma he probably forgot about her the moment he left the house with Jack - like he clearly did the next morning when he left with Jack to go 'fishing', no wonder Alma was in tears, she'd probably never seen Ennis in that kind of perky mood before, eager to go off with HER somewhere, like he was eager to go off with Jack.
Specially as she knew full well what Ennis had been doing the previous night and would be doing for the next couple of days ...
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: patroclus on February 09, 2006, 01:40:25 PM
God, I haven't watched it.  Guess I know what I'll be doing this weekend.   ;)

Hate to point this out, but you know that there will soon be gay-porn parodies of BBM available. I will not suggest the likely titles, but I'm sure ya'll can guess 'em.

Parodies - or tributes?
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: peteinportland on February 09, 2006, 02:10:46 PM
Not to sound like a broken record, but PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC. This is becoming more problematic on these threads over the past few days. For registered posters there is actually a new forum called "Naughty Bits" where you can talk about gay porn and BBM porn titles. Do I really need to tell you the "reunion" thread is not the place for that?  ;)

Carry on my wayward friends!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: sadie on February 09, 2006, 07:09:54 PM
I'm new to this discussion, but thankful that I am not the only one obsessed with this movie.  Beginning to think something was wrong with me.  Can I just say, that this scene is the hottest thing I've ever seen!  I'm mid-40's female and never into guy on guy stuff, but watching these two kiss in this scene is so hot that I don't even feel sorry for Alma!  They may be "straight", but Jake and Heath have so much chemistry that it can be bottled and sold.  Brad Pitt and Angelina have got nothing on these two!

Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: jakeb2 on February 09, 2006, 08:27:12 PM
  Not to take away from how this scene affected you, but I didn't see this scene as a personally arousing interaction, but more as a validation of the relationship the way I was hoping it would progress.  I can't explain why, but throughout the initial "smash-mouth" kissing and cut away to the motel scene, I was feeling too relieved to be turned on.
  If I were to step back and take the scene out of context, I would probably have looked at it from more of a sexual perspective though.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: SquallCloud on February 09, 2006, 08:41:36 PM
  Not to take away from how this scene affected you, but I didn't see this scene as a personally arousing interaction, but more as a validation of the relationship the way I was hoping it would progress.  I can't explain why, but throughout the initial "smash-mouth" kissing and cut away to the motel scene, I was feeling too relieved to be turned on.
  If I were to step back and take the scene out of context, I would probably have looked at it from more of a sexual perspective though.

I agree about the smash mouth kissing. I like the sensuality of the Second Night in Tent scene but right when Jack looks at his mouth before they head butt each other is erotic for me. Also you mean to tell me you don't get a smal tickle in your gut when they are trying to pull away from each other and can't seem to what with the dreamy lusty happy eyes their making and the nuzzling and the... goodness I need a wet cloth for my forehead.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: desperadum on February 09, 2006, 08:44:38 PM
I was feeling too relieved to be turned on.

Same here. It was all about relief and joy.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: valkyrie on February 10, 2006, 01:28:06 AM
I felt a great sight of relief as well when the y came together, and also instantly felt their arousal as well, deep in my gut and other places as well. It was and is like an emotional rollercoaster watching these 2 guys...
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: sadie on February 10, 2006, 07:13:24 AM
The first time I saw it, I was also relieved; particuarily when it switched to the scene in the motel.  But after the first time, I became very aware of the chemistry between the two men.  Kind of interesting, because to me,  BBM is not a sexual turn-on type movie; however,there are some scenes that are just plain hot.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: SquallCloud on February 10, 2006, 10:11:28 AM
The first time I saw it, I was also relieved; particuarily when it switched to the scene in the motel.  But after the first time, I became very aware of the chemistry between the two men.  Kind of interesting, because to me,  BBM is not a sexual turn-on type movie; however,there are some scenes that are just plain hot.

Yah Joy was the prevailing emotion I was feeling. I think the fact that most of the movie didnt' have sexually arousing scenes made the ones that were there more heightened especially upon repeat viewings.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: downloaded1 on February 10, 2006, 09:07:12 PM
Jacks expression after Ennis has first kissed him is beyond description.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: peteinportland on February 10, 2006, 11:48:28 PM
Not to sound like a broken record, but PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC. This is becoming more problematic on these threads over the past few days. For registered posters there is actually a new forum called "Naughty Bits" where you can talk about gay porn and BBM porn titles. Do I really need to tell you the "reunion" thread is not the place for that?  ;)

Carry on my wayward friends!

As promised, we have started a thread titled Jack and Ennis Sex Life. Here is the link:

http://davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=762.0

For more adult conversation, please use this thread. It is for members only and the forum it is in (Naughty Bits) can only be seen and accessed by members (who have to be 18).

So, for all those readers not registered, this gives you a good reason to finally register.

Enjoy.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: michelle on February 11, 2006, 08:26:49 PM
rabbar you are a genius  ;D Thanks for all the fantastic pictures!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: cythera4 on February 12, 2006, 12:39:32 AM
Jack's face kills me...he cannot possibly have imagined THAT happening. The "redlining all the way" was SO worth it!!!

They both look completely wrecked with uncontrollable desire. It's amazing how powerfully and convincingly they sell that scene.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: RonitR on February 12, 2006, 01:12:33 AM
Ah, yes the now-famous head-nuzzle. Bless you, Ennis... ;)

To me, Ennis looks absolutely cocky, almost smug, doing this (I mean this in a good way. To me, he looks totally in charge, and on top of the world).

How many times in the movie do we get to see this side of Ennis?

Sad, when you think about it. He is usually so closed-off, introverted. And yet, in the right environment (i.e with Jack and away from prying eyes), there is joy, lust, and - heaven help us - FUN, within this island -of -a -man...
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: TiWaKi on February 12, 2006, 01:26:39 AM
To me, Ennis looks absolutely cocky, almost smug, doing this (I mean this in a good way. To me, he looks totally in charge, and on top of the world).

How many times in the movie do we get to see this side of Ennis?

Sad, when you think about it. He is usually so closed-off, introverted. And yet, in the right environment (i.e with Jack and away from prying eyes), there is joy, lust, and - heaven help us - FUN, within this island -of -a -man...

Think maybe the fact Ennis had downed at least eight beers before Jack's arrival might have had a large influence on how Ennis handled this?  I think he was cocky (in a good way) because he was drunk (also, in a good way).
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: RonitR on February 12, 2006, 03:15:54 AM
Think maybe the fact Ennis had downed at least eight beers before Jack's arrival might have had a large influence on how Ennis handled this?  I think he was cocky (in a good way) because he was drunk (also, in a good way).

Hadn't thought about it..  ;)

Although, to be fair, I understand that alcohol tends to make you less inhibited, so you do what you actually WANT to do. So, even with the drink (did he down 8 beers?? didn't know that..) it was still his inner-Ennis calling the shots. And what shots...
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: TiWaKi on February 12, 2006, 04:20:37 AM
Yeah, the inner Ennis was definately calling the shots.  I loved it, too.

And, at least 8 beers.  He starts with one and heads to the kitchen to get another.  In the next scene he is sitting where Alma had just been sitting with no drinks around her and there is now a bottle in his hand, two empties on the table beside him and four on the table in front of him.

Hey, it's alcohol that got things started for the first tent scene.  It did its magic again.

If Ennis was this intoxicated when Jack paid his surprise visit after the divorce, instead of sober and with his daughters, imagine how different the rest of the story might have been.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Three of Nineteen on February 12, 2006, 11:04:58 AM
Well I wouldn't count on Ennis being completely wasted when Jack arrived. He took the entire day off because he didn't know when Jack would be there. If he did down 8 beers total he did so over several hours, as Jack didn'T arrive until late in the afternoon.
In general you can say that you detox at the rate of one drink an hour, so he might have been a bit drunk, but not wasted in the sense that the alcohol made him go that far.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: TiWaKi on February 12, 2006, 11:28:39 AM
Naw, I'd say Lee was telling us something to have a scene with Ennis waiting surrounded by seven beer bottles.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Three of Nineteen on February 12, 2006, 11:47:23 AM
Like the better part of a day passing while Ennis sits at home staring out of that window like a girl waiting for her promdate to show up?
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: helen_uk on February 12, 2006, 04:02:10 PM
Like the better part of a day passing while Ennis sits at home staring out of that window like a girl waiting for her promdate to show up?

Yup, exactly.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: cythera4 on February 12, 2006, 04:05:46 PM
Well I wouldn't count on Ennis being completely wasted when Jack arrived. He took the entire day off because he didn't know when Jack would be there. If he did down 8 beers total he did so over several hours, as Jack didn'T arrive until late in the afternoon.
In general you can say that you detox at the rate of one drink an hour, so he might have been a bit drunk, but not wasted in the sense that the alcohol made him go that far.

I agree with that. I don't think he was drunk in the sense of "not responsible for his actions." What he did when Jack showed up certainly surprised him, but the beers didn't make him do it. He was straining unconsciously with anticipation from the first moment Jack's card arrived. If anything, the alcohol might have contributed to his mild depression wondering whether Jack would ever arrive. But when he does arrive, Ennis is totally alert, bright-eyed, not drunk at all IMO.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: alma on February 12, 2006, 04:09:01 PM

I agree with that. I don't think he was drunk in the sense of "not responsible for his actions." What he did when Jack showed up certainly surprised him, but the beers didn't make him do it. He was straining unconsciously with anticipation from the first moment Jack's card arrived. If anything, the alcohol might have contributed to his mild depression wondering whether Jack would ever arrive. But when he does arrive, Ennis is totally alert, bright-eyed, not drunk at all IMO.

We already know that they both used drinking to cope. This is one more instance. I love the way Ennis flicks the lighter looking out the window saying "Wonder whether he'll show up..." How many of us can relate to that feeling when you hope that a person you anticipate will respond in kind to your anticipation.

Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: cythera4 on February 12, 2006, 04:22:56 PM
We already know that they both used drinking to cope. This is one more instance. I love the way Ennis flicks the lighter looking out the window saying "Wonder whether he'll show up..." How many of us can relate to that feeling when you hope that a person you anticipate will respond in kind to your anticipation.

It's such great acting. You can feel the pent-up longing that he could never consciously express. And that little half-smile that lights up his face as he comes to the window, followed by his huge grin at the top of the stairs, is like an emotional eruption for someone as taciturn as Ennis. This scene makes you understand and love his character as no other in the film does, I believe.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: bluehorse on February 12, 2006, 04:42:00 PM
It's such great acting. You can feel the pent-up longing that he could never consciously express. And that little half-smile that lights up his face as he comes to the window, followed by his huge grin at the top of the stairs, is like an emotional eruption for someone as taciturn as Ennis. This scene makes you understand and love his character as no other in the film does, I believe.

It's so profound to see stark raving happiness come out of Ennis, that look on his face at the window, I don't think I've ever seen love revealed so well by an actor, Ennis is utterly naked in that moment.

Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: cythera4 on February 12, 2006, 06:28:14 PM
It's so profound to see stark raving happiness come out of Ennis, that look on his face at the window, I don't think I've ever seen love revealed so well by an actor, Ennis is utterly naked in that moment.

It's an amazing shot too b/c a lot's going on in it. We first see Ennis slumped in the chair, apparently dejected that Jack isn't coming. In the background Alma is trying to get Alma Jr. to eat her dinner. The girl runs across the room just as Ennis hears Jack's truck and moves to the window, that incredible smile starting to burst on his face. Then he tucks in his shirt and hurries out. It's a continuous shot and wonderfully well composed. Ang Lee is really a genius--and it shows in this entire scene above all. The "reunion" will be studied and analyzed by film students and fledging directors for generations....
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Mr. Wrong on February 12, 2006, 06:37:48 PM
(http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/2775/mov9ec.gif)

Jack's face kills me...he cannot possibly have imagined THAT happening. The "redlining all the way" was SO worth it!!!

I've been staring at this picture for 5 minutes! Thanks Rabbar!

Jason
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: sskater on February 12, 2006, 09:48:32 PM
thanks Rabbar...those two head nudges really get to me. that's a very masculine way say I really missed you and I really like you. just watch athletes today.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: cythera4 on February 13, 2006, 12:41:10 AM

I know you didn't talk about the huggin'...I put them in there for me!... ;)

Thank you, thank you!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: lolita on February 13, 2006, 01:45:37 AM
Oh nice, can never get enough of that scene... :D
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: valkyrie on February 13, 2006, 04:20:43 AM
...oh, be still my heart...
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: TiWaKi on February 13, 2006, 04:38:19 AM
It's an amazing shot too b/c a lot's going on in it. We first see Ennis slumped in the chair, apparently dejected that Jack isn't coming....

..and drinking away his woe.  Two beers short of sliding down that bannister to get at his rodeo boy when he arrives...

[ducks, having once again disturbed the reverie]

Couldn't help it.  You all have permission to smack me around in the Personal Attacks Thread if I'm too over the top.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ImEnnisShesJack on February 13, 2006, 05:58:58 AM
It's an amazing shot too b/c a lot's going on in it. We first see Ennis slumped in the chair, apparently dejected that Jack isn't coming....

..and drinking away his woe.  Two beers short of sliding down that bannister to get at his rodeo boy when he arrives...

[ducks, having once again disturbed the reverie]

Couldn't help it.  You all have permission to smack me around in the Personal Attacks Thread if I'm too over the top.

I love it how he looks like he's going to vault over the bannister at the top landing and just jump the 15 feet to the ground.  It is just that raw happiness.  We see it again when they're camping and Ennis is staring at the sky.

Jack's reaction to Ennis' kiss is just hot.  He's left leaning against the wall, trying to catch his breath, with this amazingly confused, aroused, 'wow what just happened' look on his face....

I've been mainlining that video all day.  ;D
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: bluehorse on February 13, 2006, 11:10:29 AM
Man, academy award for that look at the window when he first sees Jack. He's ALL emotion, an explosion of love, looks like he might burst into tears, into mad joy, all at once. What acting!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: cythera4 on February 13, 2006, 03:23:28 PM
I love it how he looks like he's going to vault over the bannister at the top landing and just jump the 15 feet to the ground.  It is just that raw happiness.  We see it again when they're camping and Ennis is staring at the sky.

Jack's reaction to Ennis' kiss is just hot.  He's left leaning against the wall, trying to catch his breath, with this amazingly confused, aroused, 'wow what just happened' look on his face....

I've been mainlining that video all day.  ;D

Where can I find the video of the scene? Is it online? Does anyone have a link? I think this is my favorite scene in any film ever. Your description of Jack's reaction is spot-on. It's like he's been overwhelmed with love.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: aevkc on February 13, 2006, 03:30:15 PM
Cythera4, go to page 16 or 17 of this thread and there's a link to the whole reunion scene on youtube.  Have fun!!!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: cythera4 on February 13, 2006, 03:31:26 PM
Cythera4, go to page 16 or 17 of this thread and there's a link to the whole reunion scene on youtube.  Have fun!!!

Thanks!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Jaysmommy on February 13, 2006, 04:33:40 PM


I love it how he looks like he's going to vault over the bannister at the top landing and just jump the 15 feet to the ground.  It is just that raw happiness.  We see it again when they're camping and Ennis is staring at the sky.

Jack's reaction to Ennis' kiss is just hot.  He's left leaning against the wall, trying to catch his breath, with this amazingly confused, aroused, 'wow what just happened' look on his face....

I've been mainlining that video all day.  ;D
Quote

Me too, I have to start off every day with a cup of coffee and watching this scene. It's crazy, but I GOTTA HAVE IT!!!! MMMMMMMMM.............
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ToolPackinMama on February 13, 2006, 05:08:13 PM
Man, academy award for that look at the window when he first sees Jack. He's ALL emotion, an explosion of love, looks like he might burst into tears, into mad joy, all at once. What acting!

I agree.  Beautifully done.  That whole segment, including their first return to Brokeback, is my favorite part of the movie.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: downloaded1 on February 13, 2006, 11:35:13 PM
Man, academy award for that look at the window when he first sees Jack. He's ALL emotion, an explosion of love, looks like he might burst into tears, into mad joy, all at once. What acting!

Enniss's look surpasses the drab little hovel by far...
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: aevkc on February 16, 2006, 08:20:03 AM
I saw the movie again yesterday and I'm not sure this is technically part of the reunion scene, but I love when they have reunited and have gone back up into the mountains and are sitting by the fire.  When Jacks says the famous, "You know it could be like this, just like this.  Always."  Ennis' response is so gruff and unwelcoming, "Yeah, how do you figure that?"   But Jack just plows on ahead.  He is so brave.  He has to know from Ennis' response that he's probably not going to agree to a life together, but Jack gives voice to his dream anyway.  I know it's not in Ennis' nature or his background to be able to accept Jack's vision for a life together, but I still want to shake him and say, "Don't you see how much this man loves you?  Can't you see what he's risking to try and build a life with you?  Take it!  Take him!!"  It just breaks my heart, for both of them.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ingmarnicebbmt on February 16, 2006, 08:43:45 AM
Wonderfully put, aevkc! Love it and feel the same.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: andy/Claude on February 16, 2006, 08:49:50 AM
It seems to me that E's response of '' Yeah, how you figure that?'' is not so unreasonable considering that the subject had already been raised the previous night in the motel when J asks ''..so what we gonna do now?''. I believe Ennis had already given it the most detailed of thought 'cause he wanted exactly what J wanted but was the realist in his reply ''I doubt there's nothin we CAN do. I'm stuck with what I got here. Makin' a livin's about all I got time for now.'' All, of course, compounded by E's fear of the obvious. As much as I would love to rewrite the movie for all our happinesses, don't you just love to wallow in the sadness and frustration of what is a most brilliant story enacted by what will probably become the defining performances of these two young actor's lives?
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: aevkc on February 16, 2006, 08:58:35 AM
Andy, oh, I agree, the story and movie would just be sticky-sweet drivel if everything went perfectly for Jack and Ennis and they lived happily ever-after.  But I do think Ennis is a little insensitive in that line.  But then I think he tries to make up for it when he scoots closer to Jack to explain himself and he looks close to weeping.  I love how Jack strokes his cheek.  Poor Jack, always trying to ease Ennis' pain and trying not to think of his own.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: andy/Claude on February 16, 2006, 09:05:53 AM
Indeed aevkc, and besides, when ever was sensitivity E's strong point. Ask Alma that when at the thanksgiving dinner by the sink!
Let's not forget that E especially had no upbringing in finesse or sweet words. It's a wonder he was able to say what he did considering the handicap of his bleak introduction to this world.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: aevkc on February 16, 2006, 09:08:50 AM
True.  And he was more open, both physically and verbally, with Jack than with anyone else.  I think Jack recognized that, he knew how much it cost Ennis emotionally to open up even as much as he did, and that kept Jack going all those years. 
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: bluehorse on February 16, 2006, 09:49:49 AM
I was struck last time I saw the movie when Ennis is lying on Jack in the motel, after Jack says "what're we going to do now" with the anguish that crosses Ennis's face when he says "I don't suppose there's nothing we can do. . ." I feel like Ennis's heart is breaking in that moment realizing he's "stuck in what he's got." I think he wants Jack as much as Jack wants him but he's not a dreamer and can't dream through his circumstances.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: aevkc on February 16, 2006, 10:09:24 AM
Bluehorse, I agree, I definitely think Ennis loves Jack as deeply as Jack loves Ennis and it's not a one-sided love at all.  But I agree, given who Ennis is and his background he's not able to make the leap that Jack is willing to take.  So sad.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Jaysmommy on February 16, 2006, 11:13:04 AM
I was struck last time I saw the movie when Ennis is lying on Jack in the motel, after Jack says "what're we going to do now" with the anguish that crosses Ennis's face when he says "I don't suppose there's nothing we can do. . ." I feel like Ennis's heart is breaking in that moment realizing he's "stuck in what he's got." I think he wants Jack as much as Jack wants him but he's not a dreamer and can't dream through his circumstances.


bluehorse, that one moment just kills me....Ennis's expression is just heartbreaking, it's all in his eyes, they look haunted by the prospect of his life going on as it has for the last 4 years, when here he is, in the arms of the one person on earth who understands him....so sad...

The entire reunion scene is the most captivating to me, from Ennis's smoking and looking out the window, so nervous in anticipation that he can't keep his legs still, to the kiss of course, followed by Alma's shocking reality check.....how Michelle plays that moment, you can see she is close to crumbling to the floor,  her legs are barely supporting her.....on to the hotel, with Jack as caretaker of the relationship, holding Ennis in his arms, even as he reveals how vulnerable he is,  how badly he wants Ennis ("...redlined it"...).....and finally the scene by the campfire, the final moment where Jack reaches out and gently touches Ennis's face, Jack, his heart already broken in the knowledge that Ennis will not risk making a life together, and yet still comforting Ennis....

The use of the musical score throughout the scene....wow, I have it playing right now and I'm losin' it again.....

Every single frame of this film is perfection in my totally subjective opinion, but I think this scene is the ultimate, it has it all......joy, sensuality, anguish, confusion, fear, need, hope, desire, anger, disappointment, laughter.....Ang Lee is so brilliant, the acting is so brilliant.....the light this film has brought into my life is a gift I can never repay......

Sorry to ramble, having been having an emotional day......
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: andy/Claude on February 16, 2006, 11:27:18 AM
Jaysmommy, if you cant ramble here then where can you?  ;)
The details of this scene offer another example of how increasingly essential it is to get familiar with the book!! After all thats said here and elsewhere about the hardness of Ennis it's worth noting that in the book the motel scene ends with E making the phone call to Alma telling her that they are off to the mountains for a couple of days. The book tells it so well....please read it folks.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ingmarnicebbmt on February 16, 2006, 11:49:33 AM
From the story:

(end of motel scene, Jack speaking:)
"Come on, Ennis, you just shot my airplane out a the sky - give me something a go on. This ain't no little thing that's happenin here."
The hollow ringing began again in the next room, and as if he were answering it, Ennis picked up the phone on the bedside table, dialed his own number."

Beautiful, sparse, overwhelming.

He was starting to answer his own desires, but only for a weekend. He tried to give both "something a go on". But not long enough.
And both knew: "this ain't no little thing that's happenin here."

If only they could make it BIG enough.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: aevkc on February 16, 2006, 11:52:14 AM
I wish they'd used the "This ain't no little thing that's happenin' here," line in the movie. 
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: andy/Claude on February 16, 2006, 11:57:59 AM
likewise I wish they'd included E's endearment 'little darlin' after the reunion kisses.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ingmarnicebbmt on February 16, 2006, 12:07:00 PM
I wish they'd used the "This ain't no little thing that's happenin' here," line in the movie. 

That line could have been another device for the entire motive, indeed.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: SquallCloud on February 16, 2006, 12:24:04 PM
After reading the story I so longed for the "aint no little thing" lien but "Little Darlin" is one of those things that looks good on paper but I can't actually see Ennis/Heath saying it and it ringing true. Jack Fuckin' Twist was way better. imho.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: aevkc on February 16, 2006, 12:25:51 PM
I agree, Squallcloud.  The "little darlin'" to me seems way too tender for Ennis to have said aloud.  It was great in the story, but on the screen I think I might have winced if he'd actually said it. 
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: rabbar on February 16, 2006, 01:08:32 PM
I'm kinda torn about it. Some people didn't see any signs of a great love between J & E, they never say those three little words to each other. Maybe a muttered/whispered "lil darlin" in Jack's ear at one point in the film would have satisfied some of them.

Plus that way, we could have a whole nother long debate as to whether Ennis is saying "lil darlin" or "I'm sorry" or "it's ok" or "it's alright" or "not tonight Jack, I have a headache."  It would just give us BBM obsessives something else to obsess about..... ;) ;D
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: michelle on February 16, 2006, 01:17:11 PM
[the light this film has brought into my life is a gift I can never repay......

Jaysmommy, I couldn't agree more.  have never felt so enrighed by a work of art, ever.
For me, the only time we see Ennis truely, truely happy, is when he answers Jack's question "Anything interesting, up threre in heaven?" with "I was just sending up a prayer of thanks..." Ennis' face is totally content, at peace, with Jack, himself and the universe.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: aceygirl on February 16, 2006, 02:21:53 PM
I agree, Squallcloud.  The "little darlin'" to me seems way too tender for Ennis to have said aloud.  It was great in the story, but on the screen I think I might have winced if he'd actually said it. 

Me too...it seemed fitting in the book (as did "gun's goin' off!) but not for Heath's version of Ennis. I much prefer "Jack Fuckin' Twist!" which seems to have been an inspired ad lib by Heath at any rate! Then the way he nuzzled Jack's forehead with his own before collecting himself to introduce Jack to Alma...*swoon*...it seemed fitting considering that he's an animal livestock man, and animals nuzzle...
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ricishay on February 16, 2006, 07:43:43 PM
I am a 58 year old straight woman...married for 38 years, 3 kids, 6 grandkids, and let me tell you..I wish I had in my life a kiss like Jack and Ennis had when they met up after those 4 years..it was powerful and wonderful. The entire movie was haunting.  I absolutely loved it!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: martinzp on February 16, 2006, 08:11:24 PM
[ :D 8) ;D ::) ;D ::)
I have to give credit, where credit is due. I saw the movie three times already and I did read the short story likewise and the whole sentence has haunted me :
"Come on, Ennis, you just shot my airplane out a the sky - give me something a go on. This ain't no little thing that's happenin here."

I am very glad to see that I am not the only one who checked these lines. 
Thanks a lot guys and keep up the Good work.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

quote author=ingmarnicebbmt link=topic=164.msg48211#msg48211 date=1140115773]
From the story:

(end of motel scene, Jack speaking:)
"Come on, Ennis, you just shot my airplane out a the sky - give me something a go on. This ain't no little thing that's happenin here."
The hollow ringing began again in the next room, and as if he were answering it, Ennis picked up the phone on the bedside table, dialed his own number."

Beautiful, sparse, overwhelming.

He was starting to answer his own desires, but only for a weekend. He tried to give both "something a go on". But not long enough.
And both knew: "this ain't no little thing that's happenin here."

If only they could make it BIG enough.
Quote
;D :D
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: aevkc on February 17, 2006, 06:22:51 PM
I posted this on the main discussion thread and it got ignored (hmmm, maybe they are trying to tell me something) so I thought I'd try it here although it doesn't directly relate to the reunion scene.  Did anyone else notice how Ennis subtly mirrors Jack in the movie?  Ennis' car, after he marries Alma, is the same make (GMC) and color as the truck Jack is driving in the beginning.  Then during the reunion scene Jack is wearing that down vest over his red shirt.  The next time we see Ennis after the reunion, when he and Alma are fighting and the girls are swinging, he is wearing a tan down vest.  Then in the Thanksgiving scenes they are both wearing those bolero tie things, which could just be a sign of the 70's fashion times (blech).  Anyway, maybe it means nothing, but I definitely noticed it when I saw it again yesterday.  I apologize if someone else has already posted this somewhere.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: trinket on February 17, 2006, 06:29:18 PM
I posted this on the main discussion thread and it got ignored (hmmm, maybe they are trying to tell me something) so I thought I'd try it here although it doesn't directly relate to the reunion scene.  Did anyone else notice how Ennis subtly mirrors Jack in the movie?  Ennis' car, after he marries Alma, is the same make (GMC) and color as the truck Jack is driving in the beginning.  Then during the reunion scene Jack is wearing that down vest over his red shirt.  The next time we see Ennis after the reunion, when he and Alma are fighting and the girls are swinging, he is wearing a tan down vest.  Then in the Thanksgiving scenes they are both wearing those bolero tie things, which could just be a sign of the 70's fashion times (blech).  Anyway, maybe it means nothing, but I definitely noticed it when I saw it again yesterday.  I apologize if someone else has already posted this somewhere.

You're right, oh my gosh.
Interesting aevkc...have you tried talking about it on the thread "symbolism in Brokeback mountain?"  I think that is the name of the thread here.
I don't know if that has been discussed there but it's worth a shot.
And thanks, another reason for me to go see it.....AGAIN!
 ;)
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: andyincolorado on February 17, 2006, 08:17:52 PM
"BOLO TIES" are quite common out West (here). When we want to 'smarten up', a bolo tie is quite traditional to wear. Not unusual to see men wearing bolo ties to the Ellie Caulkins Opera House in downtown Denver.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: peteinportland on February 17, 2006, 08:23:35 PM
I posted this on the main discussion thread and it got ignored (hmmm, maybe they are trying to tell me something) so I thought I'd try it here although it doesn't directly relate to the reunion scene.  Did anyone else notice how Ennis subtly mirrors Jack in the movie?  Ennis' car, after he marries Alma, is the same make (GMC) and color as the truck Jack is driving in the beginning.  Then during the reunion scene Jack is wearing that down vest over his red shirt.  The next time we see Ennis after the reunion, when he and Alma are fighting and the girls are swinging, he is wearing a tan down vest.  Then in the Thanksgiving scenes they are both wearing those bolero tie things, which could just be a sign of the 70's fashion times (blech).  Anyway, maybe it means nothing, but I definitely noticed it when I saw it again yesterday.  I apologize if someone else has already posted this somewhere.

This has been discussed on a couple of different threads. I think maybe the Thanksgiving thread and the Truck thread.

The first notice of this was on the Opening scene thread where Ennis walks behind Jack to the bar, and it looks as if Ennis is trying to mimic Jack's steps.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: sskater on February 18, 2006, 04:25:17 AM
aevbc is right on...I suppose it points as well to the monoculture of the society. Ya gotta fit in, men can't be wearing anything. The pick up truck's - light blue and white one in the beginning on the side of the road after Ennis and Jack first came off the mountain. Ennis eneded up driving it around, just like the black truck. Seems Jack ended up driving mostly Fords.

(FORDS & CHEVS-still talk about this in the farming community and if u live there u know what I'm talking about). Boloties are common in the prairies cross canada-British columbia, alberta saskatchewan, manitoba as are cowboy hats and shit kickers.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Jaysmommy on February 18, 2006, 01:22:57 PM
Hi All,

I've been having trouble watching youtube clips on on both my pc and my Mac, they don't seem to load right, and when they play, they are jumpy and hard to watch.

Does anyone have a better link for viewing the reunion scene? I looked on yousendit, but I'm such a doofus, I'm not sure how to find it. Does yousendit have this clip? I was able to get the 2nd Night (SNIT) and also the wonderful "Far Away" video from links posted to yousendit on these boards....would sure love to see Reunion....

if anyone can point me in the right direction, I'd be much obliged.....

Thanks!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: bernadette on February 18, 2006, 02:02:23 PM
I posted this on the main discussion thread and it got ignored (hmmm, maybe they are trying to tell me something) so I thought I'd try it here although it doesn't directly relate to the reunion scene.  Did anyone else notice how Ennis subtly mirrors Jack in the movie?  Ennis' car, after he marries Alma, is the same make (GMC) and color as the truck Jack is driving in the beginning.  Then during the reunion scene Jack is wearing that down vest over his red shirt.  The next time we see Ennis after the reunion, when he and Alma are fighting and the girls are swinging, he is wearing a tan down vest.  Then in the Thanksgiving scenes they are both wearing those bolero tie things, which could just be a sign of the 70's fashion times (blech).  Anyway, maybe it means nothing, but I definitely noticed it when I saw it again yesterday.  I apologize if someone else has already posted this somewhere.

Thanks for posting this here. I have to go over to the symbolism thread again. I think it's amazing you noticed all that (I did notice the truck, but have actually only seen the movie 2x- poor excuse?) Anyway. I keep thinking of little things like this that seem to mean something, but what what?? What does it mean? I keep thinking it must mean something or they would not have gone to the trouble to put it in there. Any ideas anyone??
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Radha on February 18, 2006, 03:08:43 PM
Hi All,

I've been having trouble watching youtube clips on on both my pc and my Mac, they don't seem to load right, and when they play, they are jumpy and hard to watch.

Does anyone have a better link for viewing the reunion scene? I looked on yousendit, but I'm such a doofus, I'm not sure how to find it. Does yousendit have this clip? I was able to get the 2nd Night (SNIT) and also the wonderful "Far Away" video from links posted to yousendit on these boards....would sure love to see Reunion....

if anyone can point me in the right direction, I'd be much obliged.....

Thanks!

Jaysmommy, Just sent you a message.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: rnmina on February 19, 2006, 11:54:44 AM
Here's a little thing I just noticed after reviewing this scene umpybillion times...After Alma sees them on the stairs and closes the doors, the camera leads as she walks back into the kitchen - it's all of maybe 5 steps, but by shifting the stop and changing the relative speeds of Michelle and the camera, the scene makes it look like she's walking across the grand canyon or something...A very subtle camera trick, but very effective.
I'm SO blown away by the way Alma turns and walks from the door into the apartment. It's as if she's taken a blow to the chest as  she walks with  her body  slightly bent,  her halting steps, her facial expression, the way she holds onto her purse for support, though I doubt she did that in a conscious way.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: supersolenoid on February 19, 2006, 04:34:36 PM
I am a 58 year old straight woman...married for 38 years, 3 kids, 6 grandkids, and let me tell you..I wish I had in my life a kiss like Jack and Ennis had when they met up after those 4 years..it was powerful and wonderful. The entire movie was haunting.  I absolutely loved it!

I am a 32 year old gay man... single, no kids nor grandkids and let me tell you: I wish too I had in my life a kiss like Jack and Ennis had when they met up after those 4 years... because it actually is one of the most powerful scene of the entire film and, as someone else wrote, just think that:
 - ENNIS started the kiss (even with all of his fears: isn't it true, unstoppable love?
 - JACK (considered a bitch by many people because of his sexual behaviours) tears up when he feels Ennis' passion in that kiss

I love them, I dream of them, I've been 10 times to the cinema since its launch in Italy and I cannot stop feel this pain in my breast, like a blade that keeps escavating my soul... but I cannot wait to have the DVD in my hand and I am afraid of being stuck at home watching the movie every night for the next months...
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: alma on February 19, 2006, 04:56:58 PM
Here's a little thing I just noticed after reviewing this scene umpybillion times...After Alma sees them on the stairs and closes the doors, the camera leads as she walks back into the kitchen - it's all of maybe 5 steps, but by shifting the stop and changing the relative speeds of Michelle and the camera, the scene makes it look like she's walking across the grand canyon or something...A very subtle camera trick, but very effective.
I'm SO blown away by the way Alma turns and walks from the door into the apartment. It's as if she's taken a blow to the chest as  she walks with  her body  slightly bent,  her halting steps, her facial expression, the way she holds onto her purse for support, though I doubt she did that in a conscious way.

This is my favorite Alma moment (why I took her name for user ID). I noticed something disturbing last viewing (fifth time). People laughed when she walked away from the door. The women to my right kept twittering and even again when Alma is alone at the kitchen table and gets that unbelievably miserable look on her face, the women laughed again.

I had read that in a review by a staunch conservative (he was criticizing the movie as being a desensitization to adultery) and didn't believe it. Then it happened in my theater and I was livid. The early weeks of the film saw deathly silence. Has anyone else experienced this in the theater?
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: peteinportland on February 19, 2006, 05:01:00 PM
This is my favorite Alma moment (why I took her name for user ID). I noticed something disturbing last viewing (fifth time). People laughed when she walked away from the door. The women to my right kept twittering and even again when Alma is alone at the kitchen table and gets that unbelievably miserable look on her face, the women laughed again.

I had read that in a review by a staunch conservative (he was criticizing the movie as being a desensitization to adultery) and didn't believe it. Then it happened in my theater and I was livid. The early weeks of the film saw deathly silence. Has anyone else experienced this in the theater?

This is widely discussed in the Impact section in the "Audience reactions" thread.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: bluehorse on February 19, 2006, 05:11:25 PM
Alma, I've been eight times in SF and there is always laughter at this moment, but I don't think it's malicious. Here's my take, I posted this a little while ago:

I think the laughter is two-fold. One is surprise, even Jack and Ennis (especially Jack) is surprised that this guy who left him last time saying: see you around, is suddenly devouring him with total abandon. I think both of them are blindsided by the depth of their need and passion for each other in this scene. Even with all the anticipation (Ennis nervously waiting, Jack red-lining it all the way there) I think the sudden torrid, unstopable need in both of them is a bit of a surprise, the undeniable ferocity of it. So, there's that: the feeling as a viewer of HOLY HOLY SHIT, the giant WOW. But I think it's also relief both for the audience and the lovers, so much pent-up desire, so much dissatisfaction in their lives, marriages, so much flatness and gray, cramped quarters, compromises and then this explosion of emotion, passion, love that is pure, real irrefutable. So, I think the laughter is also from relief. AND in relationship to Alma, I think it's not for lack of sympathy with her but frankly, I think in this scene you want e & j together so badly, sympathies are more with the lovers, they have to be. There is also an element of uncomfortable laughter at her shock, a "girlfriend you have no idea. . ." type of response. But I think, at the same time there might be this laughter, it is not directed at Alma or out of a lack of empathy for her, just a wooooaaaaaaaaaaa reaction to the situation. . .my take on it, anyway.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: alma on February 19, 2006, 05:52:08 PM
Alma, I've been eight times in SF and there is always laughter at this moment, but I don't think it's malicious. Here's my take, I posted this a little while ago:

I think the laughter is two-fold. One is surprise, even Jack and Ennis (especially Jack) is surprised that this guy who left him last time saying: see you around, is suddenly devouring him with total abandon. I think both of them are blindsided by the depth of their need and passion for each other in this scene. Even with all the anticipation (Ennis nervously waiting, Jack red-lining it all the way there) I think the sudden torrid, unstopable need in both of them is a bit of a surprise, the undeniable ferocity of it. So, there's that: the feeling as a viewer of HOLY HOLY SHIT, the giant WOW. But I think it's also relief both for the audience and the lovers, so much pent-up desire, so much dissatisfaction in their lives, marriages, so much flatness and gray, cramped quarters, compromises and then this explosion of emotion, passion, love that is pure, real irrefutable. So, I think the laughter is also from relief. AND in relationship to Alma, I think it's not for lack of sympathy with her but frankly, I think in this scene you want e & j together so badly, sympathies are more with the lovers, they have to be. There is also an element of uncomfortable laughter at her shock, a "girlfriend you have no idea. . ." type of response. But I think, at the same time there might be this laughter, it is not directed at Alma or out of a lack of empathy for her, just a wooooaaaaaaaaaaa reaction to the situation. . .my take on it, anyway.
Thanks Pete for the redirect. I read more than I even knew had been posted about this.\

Bluehorse, your interp makes a whole lot of sense.

I wondered if part of what was going on was the feeling that Alma just was way out of her depths processing all that she had just seen.

It is such a big scene (the reunion) and the emotion of that kiss is overpowering for everyone. Seeing Alma is so surprising and upsetting... and a grim reminder of how messed up this love affair is desinted to be.

Anyway, rambling now.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: bluehorse on February 19, 2006, 06:34:11 PM
I wondered if part of what was going on was the feeling that Alma just was way out of her depths processing all that she had just seen.


Yes, I think that's exactly it. . .
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Lonewolf on February 20, 2006, 12:33:28 PM
I decided to go with the mathematical approach on this one, here i go:

On the board ive heard that Jack had to drive 1200 miles to get to Ennis
In the movie, arguing with his wife, Jack mentions a 14 hour drive
when we divide those numbers *types in digits* we get 85.714... rounding up! 86... an 86mph average, when Jack said he redlined it he wasnt kidding.

Now thats love folks
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: alma on February 20, 2006, 02:44:11 PM
I decided to go with the mathematical approach on this one, here i go:

On the board ive heard that Jack had to drive 1200 miles to get to Ennis
In the movie, arguing with his wife, Jack mentions a 14 hour drive
when we divide those numbers *types in digits* we get 85.714... rounding up! 86... an 86mph average, when Jack said he redlined it he wasnt kidding.

Now thats love folks

I love you math types. All of that calculating would never have occurred to me! Wonderful!

Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Bubble Wrap on February 22, 2006, 03:05:11 PM
I got the feeling with Alma that she took hold of her handbag on purpose...it was something physical to grip onto following the shock of what she'd just seen, but also I think she was aware that she didn't have much time in which to gather her emotions and appear composed.  So she took hold of her bag and made as if to be looking through it.  It's that thing we all do, a safety net, when you've seen something you shouldn't have, or you're doing something you shouldn't be and you try to make yourself look innocent.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: lolita on February 22, 2006, 05:52:29 PM
Not too off topic- is it true that the reunion kiss is off youtube? I cant find it and ive got an overwhelming urge to see it again (and again) Even though im seeing the movie for the 8th time on Sat...
I need a link badly for this obsession!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: angela_toronto on February 22, 2006, 08:28:08 PM
I got the feeling with Alma that she took hold of her handbag on purpose...it was something physical to grip onto following the shock of what she'd just seen, but also I think she was aware that she didn't have much time in which to gather her emotions and appear composed.  So she took hold of her bag and made as if to be looking through it.  It's that thing we all do, a safety net, when you've seen something you shouldn't have, or you're doing something you shouldn't be and you try to make yourself look innocent.

i agree. 

i also think she took hold of her handbag because she wanted to accompany them (to guard her man).  every woman that carries a purse picks it up as she exits the house as it contains your wallet, etc.

the handbag was also a signal for ennis, prompting him to give her a decided brush off both verbally ("we're going and wont be back tonight") and physically (turning away and making a quick exit).
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ImEnnisShesJack on February 23, 2006, 06:36:18 AM
Not too off topic- is it true that the reunion kiss is off youtube? I cant find it and ive got an overwhelming urge to see it again (and again) Even though im seeing the movie for the 8th time on Sat...
I need a link badly for this obsession!

The reunion link is off youtube.   :'( :'( :'(  I also tried to rip that film clip and couldn't get it to work.  SO I dont' even have a bootleg to send out....

*sigh*  I'm gonna have to cough up the $5 for the matinee again....

Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Rob. on February 23, 2006, 07:36:02 AM
Not too off topic- is it true that the reunion kiss is off youtube? I cant find it and ive got an overwhelming urge to see it again (and again) Even though im seeing the movie for the 8th time on Sat...
I need a link badly for this obsession!

The reunion link is off youtube.   :'( :'( :'(  I also tried to rip that film clip and couldn't get it to work.  SO I dont' even have a bootleg to send out....

*sigh*  I'm gonna have to cough up the $5 for the matinee again....

  OK - not exactly legal (cough cough)...but for you guys I'd do it.  Found a clip, cropped and snipped...and I hope this works!

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_TZ2CF4Pno

  Rob (Err I don't wanna go to jail...I'm too old to enjoy it  :o)
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: andy/Claude on February 23, 2006, 07:52:13 AM
Having just watched that clip ( A big big thankyou to Rob ) and having seen the movie 14 times so far, I still gasped at the shock of it! Did J really expect so much so soon? Was it spontaneity on E's part or had he planned this the moment he got the card? And just before they break to go upstairs to meet Alma, frantically tucking his shirt in ( again ) there's E whispering, 'later'.
Oh boy!! No wonder, as the book says' ...From the vibration of the floorboard on which they both stood Ennis could feel how hard Jack was shaking.'
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ingmarnicebbmt on February 23, 2006, 08:17:38 AM
Just watched the clip again, thanks a lot, RobL!

I've never paid attention before to how actually ALMA is completely out of breath after closing the door, turning around, entering the kitchen, trying to understand what she's just seen.
It's almost as if SHE had been physically overwhelmed by the kissing... (as if she had participated)
Amazing.

Something else I never saw before: Just before Ennis walks up the stairs and whispers "later" to Jack, both of them seem to me in the middle of real LOVEMAKING and completely torn between postponing it and keeping on (almost as if you have to answer an urgent tel. call when all you want to do is keep on f***ing).
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: aevkc on February 23, 2006, 08:32:44 AM
And I love how as Ennis is taking Jack's hand off his shirt (twice) Jack keeps leaning in trying to get at Ennis' mouth again.   You can just feel how stunned they both are by how strong their feelings are and how much they want and love each other.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ingmarnicebbmt on February 23, 2006, 08:35:47 AM
Ennis's shirt is a complete mess indeed. As if Jack wanted to undress him, get him totally naked on the spot.

He did a great job tucking it in before jumping down the stairs (in order to be pretty for his lil' darlin' - in his BEST shirt), well, he had to tuck it in again before reappearing in front of Alma!  :P
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Rob. on February 23, 2006, 08:38:11 AM
Ennis's shirt is a complete mess indeed. As if Jack wanted to undress him, get him totally naked on the spot.

He did a great job tucking it in before jumping down the stairs (in order to be pretty for his lil' darlin' - in his BEST shirt), well, he had to tuck it in again before reappearing in front of Alma!  :P


  Hrmmm...to me, that looked more like a 'readjustment' of the boys when he was heading back up the stairs  ;D

  Rob
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: andy/Claude on February 23, 2006, 08:39:54 AM
Indeed! Such a get together must have put both on high alert so to speak. ;)
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ingmarnicebbmt on February 23, 2006, 08:42:12 AM
High alert - certainly! But then they should have rearranged rather... um... their pants.
Tuck the guns away, so to speak. :P
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: valkyrie on February 23, 2006, 10:14:06 AM
  OK - not exactly legal (cough cough)...but for you guys I'd do it.  Found a clip, cropped and snipped...and I hope this works!

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_TZ2CF4Pno

  Rob (Err I don't wanna go to jail...I'm too old to enjoy it  :o)


You made my day RobL!!! I thought I'd lost i forever, till the DVD was an sale. I got all shaky and had to see it many times immediately.
Many hugs and kisses.

Many times I've been thinking lately that now, now I'm starting to get weaned off this BBM fever, only to discover alas, that's not so at all.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: JHL11 on February 23, 2006, 10:25:25 AM
When Ennis is introducing Jack to Alma, Ledger is breathing very hard. This scene is perhaps one of the few times that I think Gyllenhaal drops the ball or that Ang Lee didn't direct him properly. Jack is not as out of breath as Ennis is and he should be.

(blasphemous and OT but here it is. In the final scene with Ennis ("all we have is Brokeback Mountain! Everything is built on that!" ) Gyllenhaal's acting will someday be seen as a camp classic, if it isn't already.)
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ellye on February 23, 2006, 10:44:10 AM
And I love how as Ennis is taking Jack's hand off his shirt (twice) Jack keeps leaning in trying to get at Ennis' mouth again.   You can just feel how stunned they both are by how strong their feelings are and how much they want and love each other.

Perfectly summed up!  :)
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ellye on February 23, 2006, 10:52:25 AM
Just watched the clip again, thanks a lot, RobL!

I've never paid attention before to how actually ALMA is completely out of breath after closing the door, turning around, entering the kitchen, trying to understand what she's just seen.
It's almost as if SHE had been physically overwhelmed by the kissing... (as if she had participated)
Amazing.


Something else I never saw before: Just before Ennis walks up the stairs and whispers "later" to Jack, both of them seem to me in the middle of real LOVEMAKING and completely torn between postponing it and keeping on (almost as if you have to answer an urgent tel. call when all you want to do is keep on f***ing).

No, I think it was more of a reaction to someone being breathless from being punched in the stomach, which is probably how she felt, suddenly seeing what she saw and trying to take it in. The screenplay refers to her '... struggling, trying to take in what she has just witnessed' She was in shock and that was what she conveyed, when she was breathing like she was breathless.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: helen_uk on February 23, 2006, 10:56:15 AM
When Ennis is introducing Jack to Alma, Ledger is breathing very hard. This scene is perhaps one of the few times that I think Gyllenhaal drops the ball or that Ang Lee didn't direct him properly. Jack is not as out of breath as Ennis is and he should be.

Should he?  Maybe.  But I think the wide-eyed look he has throughout that scene conveys his emotions very well.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: alma on February 23, 2006, 11:35:34 AM
When Ennis is introducing Jack to Alma, Ledger is breathing very hard. This scene is perhaps one of the few times that I think Gyllenhaal drops the ball or that Ang Lee didn't direct him properly. Jack is not as out of breath as Ennis is and he should be.

Should he?  Maybe.  But I think the wide-eyed look he has throughout that scene conveys his emotions very well.

And his buckled over posture. He can hardly stand up straight. I love in the story that Proulx has Jack's shaking so hard that the floorboards are trembling. The best they could do here was to have them look like they could barely stand straight.

Great scene.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Rob. on February 23, 2006, 12:02:48 PM

And his buckled over posture. He can hardly stand up straight. I love in the story that Proulx has Jack's shaking so hard that the floorboards are trembling. The best they could do here was to have them look like they could barely stand straight.

Great scene.

  Ya know.....we used to stand that way (Well, *I* used to anyways) in gym class when we were ....ahem.... trying to ...cover... something up  :o

  Rob
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: lolita on February 23, 2006, 01:06:06 PM
Not too off topic- is it true that the reunion kiss is off youtube? I cant find it and ive got an overwhelming urge to see it again (and again) Even though im seeing the movie for the 8th time on Sat...
I need a link badly for this obsession!

The reunion link is off youtube.   :'( :'( :'(  I also tried to rip that film clip and couldn't get it to work.  SO I dont' even have a bootleg to send out....

*sigh*  I'm gonna have to cough up the $5 for the matinee again....

  OK - not exactly legal (cough cough)...but for you guys I'd do it.  Found a clip, cropped and snipped...and I hope this works!

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_TZ2CF4Pno

  Rob (Err I don't wanna go to jail...I'm too old to enjoy it  :o)
Rob L, even though im in Australia, i'd bail you out -lol!
You people are just marvellous - noone else can understand my obsession except you members - thank you thank you.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: lolita on February 23, 2006, 01:12:40 PM
OK, after the 50th time watching this i still think this is my favourite part of the movie - the reticent Ennis with his guard totally down, a mass of nerves waiting for Jack - and that kiss!!
It just blows me away every time.

Oh yeah and Jacks wide eyed amazement conveys it all so perfectly... ;)
Oh and the nuzzle - its one of the few times in the movie that Ennis reaches out of his own voliation and makes the first move - in every other scene its Jack making the effort.
It just reaffirms how deeply he DID care, and how inhibited he was not being able to show it.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Jaysmommy on February 23, 2006, 02:02:08 PM
OK, after the 50th time watching this i still think this is my favourite part of the movie - the reticent Ennis with his guard totally down, a mass of nerves waiting for Jack - and that kiss!!
It just blows me away every time.

Oh yeah and Jacks wide eyed amazement conveys it all so perfectly... ;)
Oh and the nuzzle - its one of the few times in the movie that Ennis reaches out of his own voliation and makes the first move - in every other scene its Jack making the effort.
It just reaffirms how deeply he DID care, and how inhibited he was not being able to show it.

Thank Goodness for the Far Away video and youtube clips of that kiss......these clips are the only things that keep me from going into massive Jack/Ennis withdrawal between trips to the theater!
Just found out BBM is still in wide release here in the Twin Cities through next week - yippee! More chances to see them on the huge screen,  slamming each other in the wall and nuzzling noses.....
aaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: gblady on February 23, 2006, 02:04:26 PM
hope this is OK to ask here:  how can I save the clip to my harddrive.  I've tried the right click, save target as routine, and I get another screen with everything x'ed out and saying I need to load something on, which I tried doing, yet still no luck.  Suggestions
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Bubble Wrap on February 23, 2006, 03:46:05 PM
I got the feeling with Alma that she took hold of her handbag on purpose...it was something physical to grip onto following the shock of what she'd just seen, but also I think she was aware that she didn't have much time in which to gather her emotions and appear composed.  So she took hold of her bag and made as if to be looking through it.  It's that thing we all do, a safety net, when you've seen something you shouldn't have, or you're doing something you shouldn't be and you try to make yourself look innocent.

i agree. 

i also think she took hold of her handbag because she wanted to accompany them (to guard her man).  every woman that carries a purse picks it up as she exits the house as it contains your wallet, etc.

the handbag was also a signal for ennis, prompting him to give her a decided brush off both verbally ("we're going and wont be back tonight") and physically (turning away and making a quick exit).

Yup, she defintely looked like she was wanting to be on her way out, as though she was hoping to go along, to keep an eye out on things.  Even when she was pretty much following them out the door, they were just going too quick, a clear signal not to follow, so a last ditch attempt was made by asking for smokes.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Jaysmommy on February 23, 2006, 03:56:22 PM
hope this is OK to ask here:  how can I save the clip to my harddrive.  I've tried the right click, save target as routine, and I get another screen with everything x'ed out and saying I need to load something on, which I tried doing, yet still no luck.  Suggestions

I just saved the page in MY FAVORITES, it loads right away....
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Goldfish on February 23, 2006, 05:43:06 PM
*waves to Bre*

The debat has raged on about who bottomed who in the hotel scene (I think the config set in the initial scene was the only config they had.) but I was wondering, judging by their emotional state at the time of the reunion, I wondered if they made love more primally (first tent scene) playfully (during Aquirre's peep show) or more tenderly (second tent scene) They were apart from each other for 4 years and they did nearly rip each other's heads off kissing but at the same time, maybe after dinner and a few drinks, and some great talk, they were in a different mental/emotional state. Anybody got any opinion on this?
[/color]


I will say all of the above because they had all afternoon, evening and all night together!! ;)
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: cythera4 on February 23, 2006, 06:09:41 PM
(blasphemous and OT but here it is. In the final scene with Ennis ("all we have is Brokeback Mountain! Everything is built on that!" ) Gyllenhaal's acting will someday be seen as a camp classic, if it isn't already.)

Nyet. Not blasphemy, just woefully wrong.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Rob. on February 23, 2006, 07:33:33 PM
*waves to Bre*

The debat has raged on about who bottomed who in the hotel scene (I think the config set in the initial scene was the only config they had.) but I was wondering, judging by their emotional state at the time of the reunion, I wondered if they made love more primally (first tent scene) playfully (during Aquirre's peep show) or more tenderly (second tent scene) They were apart from each other for 4 years and they did nearly rip each other's heads off kissing but at the same time, maybe after dinner and a few drinks, and some great talk, they were in a different mental/emotional state. Anybody got any opinion on this?
[/color]


I will say all of the above because they had all afternoon, evening and all night together!! ;)

  Err.....After 4 years apart - and especially after THAT kiss - if *I* were either one of them - the other would have been dinner  At 23 years old now - I see about 5 hours of fantastic mind-blowing sex before either needed to come up for air. :o

  Rob
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: downloaded1 on February 23, 2006, 07:36:43 PM
*waves to Bre*

The debat has raged on about who bottomed who in the hotel scene (I think the config set in the initial scene was the only config they had.) but I was wondering, judging by their emotional state at the time of the reunion, I wondered if they made love more primally (first tent scene) playfully (during Aquirre's peep show) or more tenderly (second tent scene) They were apart from each other for 4 years and they did nearly rip each other's heads off kissing but at the same time, maybe after dinner and a few drinks, and some great talk, they were in a different mental/emotional state. Anybody got any opinion on this?
[/color]


I SEROUSLY doubt they had dinner and 'some great talk' before they had sex at the motel.
Did you see the reunion kiss at all????
LOL!!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: cms on February 23, 2006, 07:42:50 PM
(blasphemous and OT but here it is. In the final scene with Ennis ("all we have is Brokeback Mountain! Everything is built on that!" ) Gyllenhaal's acting will someday be seen as a camp classic, if it isn't already.)

Nyet. Not blasphemy, just woefully wrong.

camp?   :-\   Funny how people see things so differently.  That scene worked just fine for me.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: romeshvr on February 23, 2006, 07:48:11 PM
Hope the DVD comes out soon so I can watch the movie with subtitles.  There are lots of little sentences I couldn't hear..
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: peteinportland on February 23, 2006, 08:21:56 PM
Hope the DVD comes out soon so I can watch the movie with subtitles.  There are lots of little sentences I couldn't hear..

*scratches head* Really? All the rest of us heard everything in the movie loud and clear!  :D
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Rob. on February 23, 2006, 08:24:10 PM
Hope the DVD comes out soon so I can watch the movie with subtitles.  There are lots of little sentences I couldn't hear..

*scratches head* Really? All the rest of us heard everything in the movie loud and clear!  :D


 Don't you DARE ;D
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: lolita on February 23, 2006, 08:58:30 PM
No, not in this thread as well... ;)
Its clean at the moment!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ehjj on February 24, 2006, 05:05:29 AM
OK, after the 50th time watching this i still think this is my favourite part of the movie - the reticent Ennis with his guard totally down, a mass of nerves waiting for Jack - and that kiss!!
It just blows me away every time.


I suddenly realized today, after having watched a clip of this scene dozens of times in the past weeks, that the point of view keeps shifting quickly between Ennis & Jack (i.e., sometimes Ennis is on the right-side of the screen, sometimes Jack is), which sorta disorients you, almost makes you dizzy.  I figure it was a trick of Ang's to help you feel something like they did. Aplogies, if someone's pointed this out before; haven't read all 35 pages of this thread.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: alma on February 24, 2006, 08:01:48 AM
Hope the DVD comes out soon so I can watch the movie with subtitles.  There are lots of little sentences I couldn't hear..

*scratches head* Really? All the rest of us heard everything in the movie loud and clear!  :D

Pete - bad moderator, bad moderator.  ;D

Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: 909dot on February 24, 2006, 09:39:17 AM
(blasphemous and OT but here it is. In the final scene with Ennis ("all we have is Brokeback Mountain! Everything is built on that!" ) Gyllenhaal's acting will someday be seen as a camp classic, if it isn't already.)

Nyet. Not blasphemy, just woefully wrong.

camp?   :-\   Funny how people see things so differently.  That scene worked just fine for me.

I agree...camp? that scene has already gone down as one of the most honest and heartbreaking moments in movies of the past decade...see "The Producers" for camp...
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: rustynyc on February 24, 2006, 12:14:15 PM
I was fortunate to have received the DVD last month, so I just replayed the scene where Ennis is waiting for Jack - and counted the beer bottles.

One at the beginning (while sitting near the window), which he finishes and takes to the kitchen. Later, just before Jack arrives, there are six empty beer bottles visible, and he's holding another one. So that totals EIGHT!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Rob. on February 24, 2006, 12:18:11 PM
I was fortunate to have received the DVD last month, so I just replayed the scene where Ennis is waiting for Jack - and counted the beer bottles.

One at the beginning (while sitting near the window), which he finishes and takes to the kitchen. Later, just before Jack arrives, there are six empty beer bottles visible, and he's holding another one. So that totals EIGHT!

  Yep - he may have been drinking - but he may have been a drinker as well(I go hunting every year with my father who's now 71 - he can polish off a 12 pack and look and act as sober as when he started).  There's no way an intoxicated person could have flown down those stairs like he did without a small accident (Although of course - one would also have to account for the massive amount of adrenalin that would have been flowing through him at that point)

  Rob
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: rustynyc on February 24, 2006, 12:22:32 PM
Earlier, people had questioned the amount of beers, and I'm just counting the bottles.

And 8 throughout one day isn't that that much - at least to me (but then again, I easily drink that amount at my favorite bar, which probably explains why I usually wake up on an empty subway at the end of the line).
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: valkyrie911 on February 24, 2006, 12:34:20 PM
*waves to Bre*

The debat has raged on about who bottomed who in the hotel scene (I think the config set in the initial scene was the only config they had.) but I was wondering, judging by their emotional state at the time of the reunion, I wondered if they made love more primally (first tent scene) playfully (during Aquirre's peep show) or more tenderly (second tent scene) They were apart from each other for 4 years and they did nearly rip each other's heads off kissing but at the same time, maybe after dinner and a few drinks, and some great talk, they were in a different mental/emotional state. Anybody got any opinion on this?
[/color]


I will say all of the above because they had all afternoon, evening and all night together!! ;)

  Err.....After 4 years apart - and especially after THAT kiss - if *I* were either one of them - the other would have been dinner  At 23 years old now - I see about 5 hours of fantastic mind-blowing sex before either needed to come up for air. :o

  Rob

I'll bet they didn't make it to the motel before at least one of them ate. I find it soooo difficult to see Ennis in any other position than on top. It just wouldn't suit his personality to change roles and allow such intimacy. But that's my opinion.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: rustynyc on February 24, 2006, 12:48:43 PM
My guess is that Ennis was the top (Jack seemed to "take it" entirely too easily that first night...)

From the book - a scene (p19) in which Alma and Ennis are in bed: ...and he rolled her over, did quickly what she hated.

What she hated - seems to me he's fantasizing about Jack.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: valkyrie911 on February 24, 2006, 12:54:59 PM
My guess is that Ennis was the top (Jack seemed to "take it" entirely too easily that first night...)

From the book - a scene (p19) in which Alma and Ennis are in bed: ...and he rolled her over, did quickly what she hated.

What she hated - seems to me he's fantasizing about Jack.

She also thinks to herself after saying the she "have 'em if you'd support 'em" line about the kids that using protection doesn't really matter much because what he likes to do isn't likely to get her pregnant.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: 909dot on February 24, 2006, 01:00:24 PM
*waves to Bre*

The debat has raged on about who bottomed who in the hotel scene (I think the config set in the initial scene was the only config they had.) but I was wondering, judging by their emotional state at the time of the reunion, I wondered if they made love more primally (first tent scene) playfully (during Aquirre's peep show) or more tenderly (second tent scene) They were apart from each other for 4 years and they did nearly rip each other's heads off kissing but at the same time, maybe after dinner and a few drinks, and some great talk, they were in a different mental/emotional state. Anybody got any opinion on this?
[/color]


I will say all of the above because they had all afternoon, evening and all night together!! ;)

  Err.....After 4 years apart - and especially after THAT kiss - if *I* were either one of them - the other would have been dinner  At 23 years old now - I see about 5 hours of fantastic mind-blowing sex before either needed to come up for air. :o

  Rob

I'll bet they didn't make it to the motel before at least one of them ate. I find it soooo difficult to see Ennis in any other position than on top. It just wouldn't suit his personality to change roles and allow such intimacy. But that's my opinion.

I don't think that our boys ate anything but each other that night...look at them standing in the door way!!! thats hardly body language for burger and fries... and the next morning, Jack is heard saying "I'm starving, wanna get something to eat?"and as far as Ennis switching it up a bit, lets not forget he is in rather vulnerable positions in both the second night...(pulling jack onto him) and the hotel...laying on Jack, the more submissive positing...I find it hard to believe that Ennis didn't try it at least once...
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: valkyrie911 on February 24, 2006, 01:26:08 PM
*waves to Bre*

The debat has raged on about who bottomed who in the hotel scene (I think the config set in the initial scene was the only config they had.) but I was wondering, judging by their emotional state at the time of the reunion, I wondered if they made love more primally (first tent scene) playfully (during Aquirre's peep show) or more tenderly (second tent scene) They were apart from each other for 4 years and they did nearly rip each other's heads off kissing but at the same time, maybe after dinner and a few drinks, and some great talk, they were in a different mental/emotional state. Anybody got any opinion on this?
[/color]


I will say all of the above because they had all afternoon, evening and all night together!! ;)

  Err.....After 4 years apart - and especially after THAT kiss - if *I* were either one of them - the other would have been dinner  At 23 years old now - I see about 5 hours of fantastic mind-blowing sex before either needed to come up for air. :o

  Rob

I'll bet they didn't make it to the motel before at least one of them ate. I find it soooo difficult to see Ennis in any other position than on top. It just wouldn't suit his personality to change roles and allow such intimacy. But that's my opinion.

I don't think that our boys ate anything but each other that night...look at them standing in the door way!!! thats hardly body language for burger and fries... and the next morning, Jack is heard saying "I'm starving, wanna get something to eat?"and as far as Ennis switching it up a bit, lets not forget he is in rather vulnerable positions in both the second night...(pulling jack onto him) and the hotel...laying on Jack, the more submissive positing...I find it hard to believe that Ennis didn't try it at least once...
I was thinking more in terms of that odd quirk Jack has going with the tonque thing.  BTW, in that shot Heath's tattoo is covered up because it's a close up. Sometimes it is and sometimes it's not. Someone said maybe he's supposed to have it because you can see it in a lot of scenes but I think it's a goof.

Ennis is definetly the sweatier looking one on the bed. The could have gotten up to get their cigarettes and that's how they ended up in their final position with Jack holding Ennis like that. Maybe he seems like he's all tough on the outside but when they are together not doing the deed he likes to be held and let's Jack take over, like the second night in the tent.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Rob. on February 24, 2006, 01:43:57 PM
Ennis is definetly the sweatier looking one on the bed. The could have gotten up to get their cigarettes and that's how they ended up in their final position with Jack holding Ennis like that. Maybe he seems like he's all tough on the outside but when they are together not doing the deed he likes to be held and let's Jack take over, like the second night in the tent.

  Excellent point!  If you think about it, he's starved!  How could he not enjoy being held, comforted, protected (This is just how I'd see it - on a purely personal level, I am not a bottom - yet I love being held in an embrace like the dozy one, or lying in bed like in the motel scene, and I'm always the inside spoon in the drawer :) )

  I think once in a while even stone cold Ennis (Ugh) has to let go just a little.  Frankly, he looks VERY comfortable in that position to me.  How couldn't he be - with the strong arms of the man he loves wrapped around him - at least at that point - keeping the outside world at bay!

  Rob
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Aloysius on February 24, 2006, 05:10:44 PM
Definitely my favorite scene in the movie...and not because of what Alma sees (I actually think it's kinda tragic).  No, Ennis finally makes a totally unexpected move on Jack -- just about ravaged him right there in the stairwell.  And to see Jack's utter expression of surprise and bewilderment -- wow, is all we can say!  :o

BTW, in the story, Ennis is "still half tumescent" in the motel scene.  Had to look it up and I blushed...  :-*
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: mary on February 24, 2006, 06:20:31 PM
Not trying to turn this into another SNIT thread and forgive me if you have already covered (and buried ) this topic, I don't get into this thread often.  I went to see it again this afternoon and THINK I heard something during the reunion that I'd not noticed before.  After Ennis does his nose rub thing and then tucks his shirt in, I just today thought I heard him say 'Walk up with me'
SO am I hallucinating?
 (I'm sure he did NOT say 'I'm sorry' in this scene ;))
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: downloaded1 on February 24, 2006, 06:24:15 PM
Not trying to turn this into another SNIT thread and forgive me if you have already covered (and buried ) this topic, I don't get into this thread often.  I went to see it again this afternoon and THINK I heard something during the reunion that I'd not noticed before.  After Ennis does his nose rub thing and then tucks his shirt in, I just today thought I heard him say 'Walk up with me'
SO am I hallucinating?
 (I'm sure he did NOT say 'I'm sorry' in this scene ;))

He says "C"mere"
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: 909dot on February 24, 2006, 06:27:44 PM
Not trying to turn this into another SNIT thread and forgive me if you have already covered (and buried ) this topic, I don't get into this thread often.  I went to see it again this afternoon and THINK I heard something during the reunion that I'd not noticed before.  After Ennis does his nose rub thing and then tucks his shirt in, I just today thought I heard him say 'Walk up with me'
SO am I hallucinating?
 (I'm sure he did NOT say 'I'm sorry' in this scene ;))

He also says "later..." right before the head rub...which is too hot!!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: peteinportland on February 25, 2006, 12:11:54 AM
OMG! Those little head nudges are my favorite part of the movie this week. (Last week it was the spooning in the tent on their last night together.)
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: HazelEyedRaven on February 25, 2006, 02:50:32 AM
As a married, middle-aged heterosexual women, I find the reunion kiss TOO much!  Someone posted here somewhere about how women now understand why men like seeing two hot women kiss! Zowie!

And the actors do justice to Proulx's prose.  She wrote how the physcial, almost brute force in which they come together.  Thighs, groins pressing together, stepping on each other's toes.  In the movie, the sound of their boots on the stairwell along with the roughness and heavy breathing of their kiss, the pushing and pulling so perfectly illuminates what Proulx wrote.  Perfect.

She also likened Jack to a spooked horse as he stands next to Ennis making idle chat with Alma.  After I read that, I watched closely how Gyllenhaal portrayed this.  While Jack is trying to keep it together, he talks and his eyes shift from Ennis' eyes to his mouth to his eyes to his mouth.  It's like he's hungry.  He finally lowers his head as if to hide the obvious and hold himself back. 

I love the whole reunion scene from the mighty embrace to the physicalness of the kiss to the tension while upstairs.  Especially given that Ennis is the initiator and how they parted 4 years earlier.  Watching Jack's surprise turn to submission to assertion to dizziness as Ennis gives the gentle head nudge.  It's exhilorating.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: andy/Claude on February 25, 2006, 04:51:10 AM
' From the vibration of the floorboard on which they both stood Ennis could feel how hard Jack was shaking '
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: lovebbm on February 25, 2006, 05:29:15 AM
I was wondering if someone could explain to why Ennis says "Jack's from Texas", when Alma asks if Jack wants to come inside for some coffee.  When she says "Don't Texans drink coffee?" she gets a big laugh, but I guess I'm having trouble understanding the (apparent) non-sequiter from Ennis to begin with.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: andy/Claude on February 25, 2006, 05:41:04 AM
Definitely my favorite scene in the movie...and not because of what Alma sees (I actually think it's kinda tragic).  No, Ennis finally makes a totally unexpected move on Jack -- just about ravaged him right there in the stairwell.  And to see Jack's utter expression of surprise and bewilderment -- wow, is all we can say!  :o

BTW, in the story, Ennis is "still half tumescent" in the motel scene.  Had to look it up and I blushed...  :-*

Oh yes, Aloysius. What a brilliant word to describe that after sex swelling! Poor old Jack's a**e must have been shot to pieces!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Bethie on February 25, 2006, 07:26:37 AM
I was wondering if someone could explain to why Ennis says "Jack's from Texas", when Alma asks if Jack wants to come inside for some coffee.  When she says "Don't Texans drink coffee?" she gets a big laugh, but I guess I'm having trouble understanding the (apparent) non-sequiter from Ennis to begin with.

I don't know if this helps or not, but the way I took that scene, is that Ennis is not paying any attention to Alma. He is so distracted. He is already out the door, not in the present moment. He just said what popped into his head. I live in Texas and when he says that the theater just cracked up, because we all drink coffee here.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: AntonioBrazil on February 25, 2006, 08:13:58 AM
I'M TOO MUCH IN LOVE WITH AMERICA!!!!!!
I'M IN LOVE WITH THESE TWO GUYS,
THESE TWO BRILLIANT AMERICAN ACTORS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: lovebbm on February 25, 2006, 08:50:19 AM
I was wondering if someone could explain to why Ennis says "Jack's from Texas", when Alma asks if Jack wants to come inside for some coffee.  When she says "Don't Texans drink coffee?" she gets a big laugh, but I guess I'm having trouble understanding the (apparent) non-sequiter from Ennis to begin with.

I don't know if this helps or not, but the way I took that scene, is that Ennis is not paying any attention to Alma. He is so distracted. He is already out the door, not in the present moment. He just said what popped into his head. I live in Texas and when he says that the theater just cracked up, because we all drink coffee here.

Thanks, I could buy that...
Title: COMPLETE Reunion--link to VERY long video
Post by: lessa on February 25, 2006, 09:31:17 AM
Hey all,

This is probably a total 'faux pas' to jump  on as a first time poster and post a link immediately, but I didn't see this link posted and holy cow, it is The Whole Reunion (not just the first scene!!) and high-quality at that.

http://tbiet.tooblog.fr/?2006/02/25/1146-brokeback-mountain-les-retrouvailles-de-jack-et-ennis

It is 8 minutes long, starts with Ennis waiting, ends with the first talk by the campfire.

Also, sound is very clear. Check out the other stuff on the guy's site too. Wowza.

Again, apologies if this is all over this board already.

lessa
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: KittyHawk on February 25, 2006, 10:19:10 AM
Welcome! And it's not a faux pas at all!  We're always glad to get additional "resources" too support our addiction here.
Thanks a bunch!  :D

KittyHawk
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: valkyrie911 on February 25, 2006, 10:36:25 AM
As a married, middle-aged heterosexual women, I find the reunion kiss TOO much!  Someone posted here somewhere about how women now understand why men like seeing two hot women kiss! Zowie!

And the actors do justice to Proulx's prose.  She wrote how the physcial, almost brute force in which they come together.  Thighs, groins pressing together, stepping on each other's toes.  In the movie, the sound of their boots on the stairwell along with the roughness and heavy breathing of their kiss, the pushing and pulling so perfectly illuminates what Proulx wrote.  Perfect.

She also likened Jack to a spooked horse as he stands next to Ennis making idle chat with Alma.  After I read that, I watched closely how Gyllenhaal portrayed this.  While Jack is trying to keep it together, he talks and his eyes shift from Ennis' eyes to his mouth to his eyes to his mouth.  It's like he's hungry.  He finally lowers his head as if to hide the obvious and hold himself back. 

I love the whole reunion scene from the mighty embrace to the physicalness of the kiss to the tension while upstairs.  Especially given that Ennis is the initiator and how they parted 4 years earlier.  Watching Jack's surprise turn to submission to assertion to dizziness as Ennis gives the gentle head nudge.  It's exhilorating.

This is better than the SNIT to me. Maybe because Ennis is the one who ravishes Jack. You just know he's missed him so much. More so than Jack who had been cruising other guys in the time since their split. It's funny Ennis has to remember to turn around and face Alma to talk to her and not look at Jack. You can almost feel them inching toward each other. Imagine what it would have been like to be in that room!
Title: Re: COMPLETE Reunion--link to VERY long video
Post by: Jaysmommy on February 25, 2006, 11:31:43 AM
Hey all,

This is probably a total 'faux pas' to jump  on as a first time poster and post a link immediately, but I didn't see this link posted and holy cow, it is The Whole Reunion (not just the first scene!!) and high-quality at that.

http://tbiet.tooblog.fr/?2006/02/25/1146-brokeback-mountain-les-retrouvailles-de-jack-et-ennis

It is 8 minutes long, starts with Ennis waiting, ends with the first talk by the campfire.

Also, sound is very clear. Check out the other stuff on the guy's site too. Wowza.

Again, apologies if this is all over this board already.

lessa

Thanks for that link!

Can anyone tell me what happened to the clips on youtube o SNIT and Reunion and Last scene together?

I had them saced in My Faverites, but yesterday on youtube they were "no longer available"   :'(

I'm a computer idiot, so can someone tell me what happened? Are they just gone forever?   :-[ :-[
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Aloysius on February 25, 2006, 12:01:10 PM
Definitely my favorite scene in the movie...and not because of what Alma sees (I actually think it's kinda tragic).  No, Ennis finally makes a totally unexpected move on Jack -- just about ravaged him right there in the stairwell.  And to see Jack's utter expression of surprise and bewilderment -- wow, is all we can say!  :o

BTW, in the story, Ennis is "still half tumescent" in the motel scene.  Had to look it up and I blushed...  :-*

Oh yes, Aloysius. What a brilliant word to describe that after sex swelling! Poor old Jack's a**e must have been shot to pieces!

Yes Andy, Jack must have been *hurtin' so good*  :o
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion/youtube
Post by: lessa on February 25, 2006, 12:03:19 PM
Did you try going to the main youtube page and doing a search on brokeback mountain? I haven't used that site extensively, but on some sites, if you are actually 'logged in' and bookmark something, then you clear out your cookies or temp internet files, the information the site uses to get you to that exact page is gone. I don't know if that makes sense or not--point is, the actual video is very likely still on the site.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: IMJackNasty on February 25, 2006, 12:42:32 PM
It shouldn't come as a shock how Ennis reacted as he did upon seeing Jack again after 4 years. Think back to when they left Signal....Jack watched Ennis walking in his mirror with a sad look on his face but it was Ennis who ducked into the alleyway and broke down and cried. Also, think of Ennis's reaction when Jack tells Ennis they have to bring the herd down early in August. Ennis reaction IMO is because I feel he's really more upset that his time with Jack is being cut short.....and then he sits in the field stewing away until Jack comes over and tells him it's time to go.

Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: lessa on February 25, 2006, 12:58:42 PM
I agree with IMJack's post above, particularly b/c I have seen some reviewers comment that they don't see what it was that happened on the mountain that would cause this bond to continue, aside from lust--it's all been rehashed here so I won't go too far into it, but there isn't anyone else that Ennis has ever talked to about himself, really; no one else that has ever loved him for just himself. I had a thought the other day: Jack's character reminds me of...Lloyd Dobbler! Remember in Say Anything, I think Ione's character's dad is asking him what he wants to do with his life or something like that, and his response is, "what I want to do, is be with your daughter" and it's like to him, isn't that enough of a thing to BE, when you find someone amazing? IOW, to be just...theirs? As usual I digress...point is, you can fall in love with someone for real on a first date, if it lasts into the next day--these guys are together 24-7. And I am surprised I don't hear people referring more often to Ennis' "acting out" when they learn they have to go back. The kicking the ground/shallow stream, stomping off and sulking, and of course, punching Jack--to me it was soooo obviously the ultimate in boy-response to emotional pain and frustration.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: hayek_uk on February 25, 2006, 01:04:10 PM
Definitely my favorite scene in the movie...and not because of what Alma sees (I actually think it's kinda tragic).  No, Ennis finally makes a totally unexpected move on Jack -- just about ravaged him right there in the stairwell.  And to see Jack's utter expression of surprise and bewilderment -- wow, is all we can say!  :o

BTW, in the story, Ennis is "still half tumescent" in the motel scene.  Had to look it up and I blushed...  :-*

Oh yes, Aloysius. What a brilliant word to describe that after sex swelling! Poor old Jack's a**e must have been shot to pieces!

Yes Andy, Jack must have been *hurtin' so good*  :o

It's amazing (fantastic) to me that in the story Jack is totally filthy -- says Ennis is so fucking good (and vice versa) - something like "must be cause of all the time you spend on horseback" - ROTFWL
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: patroclus on February 25, 2006, 03:02:48 PM
I was wondering if someone could explain to why Ennis says "Jack's from Texas", when Alma asks if Jack wants to come inside for some coffee.  When she says "Don't Texans drink coffee?" she gets a big laugh, but I guess I'm having trouble understanding the (apparent) non-sequiter from Ennis to begin with.

lovebbm: I always saw it as an equivalent non-sequitur to the one in the story: after they've kissed and he's brought Jack upstairs the story says: His chest was heaving....."Alma," he said, "Jack and me ain't seen each other in four years." As if it were a reason.

I think they missed that out, but put in the 'He's from Texas' non-sequitur to create the same effect of distraction on his behalf and sort of bitter humour for Alma that he's not there for her at all
Title: Another what-is-he-saying
Post by: lessa on February 25, 2006, 05:27:45 PM
Right after Alma goes back inside and we go back to Jack and Ennis in the stairwell, Ennis is pulling Jack's hands off him like he's putting a stop to things. We know he's going to tell Alma he and Jack are going out "for a drink" (ahem) but Jack looks utterly crestfallen, and Ennis seems to be trying to reassure him--I THINK he's saying wait, wait here or something like that. Has this been discussed on here already?

lessa

Also, anyone else think it was funny that Ennis used the excuse to Alma that they'd probably be out all night once they got to drinking and TALKING? Living with Ennis, the idea of him staying up all night talking probably capped her suspicions! ("You don't go up there to talk")
Title: Re: Another what-is-he-saying
Post by: alma on February 25, 2006, 05:43:02 PM
Right after Alma goes back inside and we go back to Jack and Ennis in the stairwell, Ennis is pulling Jack's hands off him like he's putting a stop to things. We know he's going to tell Alma he and Jack are going out "for a drink" (ahem) but Jack looks utterly crestfallen, and Ennis seems to be trying to reassure him--I THINK he's saying wait, wait here or something like that. Has this been discussed on here already?

lessa

Also, anyone else think it was funny that Ennis used the excuse to Alma that they'd probably be out all night once they got to drinking and TALKING? Living with Ennis, the idea of him staying up all night talking probably capped her suspicions! ("You don't go up there to talk")

I think these have been mentioned before but it's always great to bring up your insights anyway since we have new people all the time.

I loved that line about "when we get to drinking and talking." One of the interesting parts of this whole sequence is that Alma had never even heard of Jack until the postcard. Yet with her quick look at the intensity of the kiss, she is now suddenly wondering about everything. Does she know this husband or hers? Who is this man? What will become of her and the girls?

The cap on the already out of control scene is that she thinks she can slow him down by asking Ennis to buy smokes for her... but Ennis is long gone... gone for good, actually. Neither knows it then, but it is obvious from every step forward from that moment on.

Oh, and I do think Ennis tells Jack to wait until later after the kiss. :)

Title: Re: Another what-is-he-saying
Post by: valkyrie911 on February 25, 2006, 05:53:00 PM
Right after Alma goes back inside and we go back to Jack and Ennis in the stairwell, Ennis is pulling Jack's hands off him like he's putting a stop to things. We know he's going to tell Alma he and Jack are going out "for a drink" (ahem) but Jack looks utterly crestfallen, and Ennis seems to be trying to reassure him--I THINK he's saying wait, wait here or something like that. Has this been discussed on here already?

lessa

Also, anyone else think it was funny that Ennis used the excuse to Alma that they'd probably be out all night once they got to drinking and TALKING? Living with Ennis, the idea of him staying up all night talking probably capped her suspicions! ("You don't go up there to talk")

I think these have been mentioned before but it's always great to bring up your insights anyway since we have new people all the time.

I loved that line about "when we get to drinking and talking." One of the interesting parts of this whole sequence is that Alma had never even heard of Jack until the postcard. Yet with her quick look at the intensity of the kiss, she is now suddenly wondering about everything. Does she know this husband or hers? Who is this man? What will become of her and the girls?

The cap on the already out of control scene is that she thinks she can slow him down by asking Ennis to buy smokes for her... but Ennis is long gone... gone for good, actually. Neither knows it then, but it is obvious from every step forward from that moment on.

Oh, and I do think Ennis tells Jack to wait until later after the kiss. :)



Ennis might talk more to Alma than we know about. He does seem to be a good father. It's a ridiculous line though because I can't imagine where they're supposed to be going. The thing that gets me is the next morning when she hears them at the truck and Jack says he's "starving, you want to get something to eat" and she just loses it because thats not what you do if you've been up all night drinking. Plus we've seen Ennis with a hangover already once before....
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: 909dot on February 25, 2006, 06:07:13 PM
I'm going to ask this question again since we have new people join all time...has anyone figured out what Ennis takes out of the medicine cabinet while he gets ready to go with Jack? It must be something that eather Heath gets to help with his character or the script says he gets (something) out of Medicine cabnet...since there is not a wasted moment in this film, I would love to know...any ideas? ( the last time I asked,I got an answer of lube, which I highly doubt, since lube in rural Wyoming in the early 60 was virtually unheard of, and aspirin, which I also highly doubt...I cant see Ennis taking aspirin or any other medication for that matter) would love to hear thoughts...or if anyone has a script that says...

Todd
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: valkyrie911 on February 25, 2006, 06:18:31 PM
I'm going to ask this question again since we have new people join all time...has anyone figured out what Ennis takes out of the medicine cabinet while he gets ready to go with Jack? It must be something that eather Heath gets to help with his character or the script says he gets (something) out of Medicine cabnet...since there is not a wasted moment in this film, I would love to know...any ideas? ( the last time I asked,I got an answer of lube, which I highly doubt, since lube in rural Wyoming in the early 60 was virtually unheard of, and aspirin, which I also highly doubt...I cant see Ennis taking aspirin or any other medication for that matter) would love to hear thoughts...or if anyone has a script that says...

Todd

Toothpaste?  It's so small whatever it is it would have to be a travel size.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: HazelEyedRaven on February 25, 2006, 06:24:27 PM
I'm going to ask this question again since we have new people join all time...has anyone figured out what Ennis takes out of the medicine cabinet while he gets ready to go with Jack? It must be something that eather Heath gets to help with his character or the script says he gets (something) out of Medicine cabnet...since there is not a wasted moment in this film, I would love to know...any ideas? ( the last time I asked,I got an answer of lube, which I highly doubt, since lube in rural Wyoming in the early 60 was virtually unheard of, and aspirin, which I also highly doubt...I cant see Ennis taking aspirin or any other medication for that matter) would love to hear thoughts...or if anyone has a script that says...

Todd

I always assumed it was a razor.  Recall how clean shaven Ennis always is.  I figured that they probably did without toothpaste as rough cowboys.  Plus, I doubt Alma and Ennis have 'extra' toothpaste.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: 909dot on February 25, 2006, 06:27:08 PM
I'm going to ask this question again since we have new people join all time...has anyone figured out what Ennis takes out of the medicine cabinet while he gets ready to go with Jack? It must be something that eather Heath gets to help with his character or the script says he gets (something) out of Medicine cabnet...since there is not a wasted moment in this film, I would love to know...any ideas? ( the last time I asked,I got an answer of lube, which I highly doubt, since lube in rural Wyoming in the early 60 was virtually unheard of, and aspirin, which I also highly doubt...I cant see Ennis taking aspirin or any other medication for that matter) would love to hear thoughts...or if anyone has a script that says...

Todd

Toothpaste?  It's so small whatever it is it would have to be a travel size.

Thats what Im leaning towards since he has the tooth brush in his mouth...but a travil size tooth past?...in the Del Mar household?...seems strange...and it is very small. fits in the palm of his hand...I must find out....!!wow,,,am I obsesed or what... :o
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: 909dot on February 25, 2006, 06:28:40 PM

I always assumed it was a razor.  Recall how clean shaven Ennis always is.  I figured that they probably did without toothpaste as rough cowboys.  Plus, I doubt Alma and Ennis have 'extra' toothpaste.

...but its soooo small...you could see the handle if it were...
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: David G on February 25, 2006, 06:32:48 PM
I'm going to ask this question again since we have new people join all time...has anyone figured out what Ennis takes out of the medicine cabinet while he gets ready to go with Jack?

It's nothing of any consequence to the story. The action lasts less than one second (it's lightening fast). If it meant anything, there would have been a close up to establish its significance. There is nothing mentioned in the text of the script other than he grabs a duffle bag and his rod, reel, and creel. Tooth bush and medicine chest are not mentioned.

It's not WHAT he's taking but HOW he's taking things. The totality of the sequence is to show he's in a rush to pack a bag and leave with Jack.

Title: Re: Another what-is-he-saying
Post by: HazelEyedRaven on February 25, 2006, 06:35:13 PM


Oh, and I do think Ennis tells Jack to wait until later after the kiss. :)


Quote

I read that on a post yesterday that he said, "Later," the says, "C'mon."   Which when seeing the scene again (thanks for the link, BTW), that's what he said which makes the scene even more meaningful.  Like he's saying, "Wait.  I promise there's more."
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: valkyrie911 on February 25, 2006, 06:39:11 PM
Maybe he just grabs an extra razor blade since Jack would have his razor with him.

Or maybe he flosses. Some people actually floss.

Did he take any underwear out of the drawer or is he still wearing just socks. I wonder if Heath had to go through the entire shoot with no underwear on. Kissing Jake. Over and over again.

Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: 909dot on February 25, 2006, 06:43:06 PM

Did he take any underwear out of the drawer or is he still wearing just socks. I wonder if Heath had to go through the entire shoot with no underwear on. Kissing Jake. Over and over again.



hmmmm... let me think about that for awhile... ;D
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: HazelEyedRaven on February 25, 2006, 06:45:26 PM
Maybe he just grabs an extra razor blade since Jack would have his razor with him.

Or maybe he flosses. Some people actually floss.

Did he take any underwear out of the drawer or is he still wearing just socks. I wonder if Heath had to go through the entire shoot with no underwear on. Kissing Jake. Over and over again.



During the period, I don't know how regimented floss was.  I'm sticking with the razor.

And oh poor Heath Ledger!  Having to make out hard with Jake Gyllenhaal while going commando! If only my job were that hard!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: 909dot on February 25, 2006, 06:47:02 PM
I'm going to ask this question again since we have new people join all time...has anyone figured out what Ennis takes out of the medicine cabinet while he gets ready to go with Jack?

It's nothing of any consequence to the story. The action lasts less than one second (it's lightening fast). If it meant anything, there would have been a close up to establish its significance. It's not WHAT he's taking but HOW he's taking things. The totality of the sequence is to show he's in a rush to pack a bag and leave with Jack.



I know its not the "tire iron" or anything...just seemed interesting the things he would think to take...I agree he is rushing, but he does take care of what he is taking...remember he smells his shirt to see if its clean before on of there meetings....
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: HazelEyedRaven on February 25, 2006, 06:54:39 PM
I was wondering if someone could explain to why Ennis says "Jack's from Texas", when Alma asks if Jack wants to come inside for some coffee.  When she says "Don't Texans drink coffee?" she gets a big laugh, but I guess I'm having trouble understanding the (apparent) non-sequiter from Ennis to begin with.

I don't know if this helps or not, but the way I took that scene, is that Ennis is not paying any attention to Alma. He is so distracted. He is already out the door, not in the present moment. He just said what popped into his head. I live in Texas and when he says that the theater just cracked up, because we all drink coffee here.

Oops.  Will try again. 

Initially, Ennis just wants to get out to the mountains with Jack and they don't have time for coffee.  But moreover, I think Ennis  makes a deliberate effort to keep his two lives apart.  We see that when Jack drives up after the divorce and Ennis' girls are in the truck.  You see Ennis' guilt and shame.  Why didn't he just ask Jack to join him and the girls for a little while before he drove back?  He's keeping his dream life away from his cruel and real life.

Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: David G on February 25, 2006, 07:36:16 PM
Quote

Initially, Ennis just wants to get out to the mountains with Jack and they don't have time for coffee.  But moreover, I think Ennis  makes a deliberate effort to keep his two lives apart.  We see that when Jack drives up after the divorce and Ennis' girls are in the truck.  You see Ennis' guilt and shame.  Why didn't he just ask Jack to join him and the girls for a little while before he drove back?  He's keeping his dream life away from his cruel and real life.


I'm sure Ennis feels embarrassment when his "lover" shows up unannounced and surprises him with his daughters. I agree that is there. But I also believe in the sincerity of Ennis love for his daughters and how he wants to be with them. (Of course, later, he has no problem bringing Cassie with him when he picks up Alma JR. (I was upset that Ennis did that since he was generally a caring dad)).

There are so many "what ifs" in fiction that it drives me mad. That was one of the many scenes where I wanted to scream out a compromise. All Ennis had to do was say 'I'm spending the day/weekend with my girls but you're welcome to stay here while we go out. When we get back, we can spend some time together'. It may not be what Jack was hoping for but it would have been something. I understand how it works as part of the story (Ennis kept Jack away from his wife and now his daughters) but it's just something that I didn't see as all or nothing although it is consistent with Ennis' personality and NOT MY wishful speculation. It just goes to establish how Ennis is committed to keeping any aspect of their relationship far out in the woods and away from prying eyes and inquiring minds.


Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: HazelEyedRaven on February 25, 2006, 11:09:06 PM

There are so many "what ifs" in fiction that it drives me mad. That was one of the many scenes where I wanted to scream out a compromise.


Quote

It's funny.  When I watched Gyllenhaal on Oprah, he repeatedly states how ambiguous the movie is.  So I looked it up just to be clear (the opposite of ambiguous!) Ang Lee capitalizes on what Proulx intended (ambiguity).  Not because the story or the movie needed it but because Ennis and Jack's relationship is full of it.  There's a line in the book when their sheep get mixed with the Chilean sheep where Proulx writes, "In a disquieting way everything seemed mixed." 

That's why we are all so touched by it.  Why we are all wanting to scream.  Weeping upon the fateful outcome.  Full of the if-onlys that you see Ennis struggle with in the last scene.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: desertstarlover on February 26, 2006, 01:05:17 AM
I'm going to ask this question again since we have new people join all time...has anyone figured out what Ennis takes out of the medicine cabinet while he gets ready to go with Jack? It must be something that eather Heath gets to help with his character or the script says he gets (something) out of Medicine cabnet...since there is not a wasted moment in this film, I would love to know...any ideas? (
Todd

I think I hear a sound that sounds like pills in a bottle.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: FadingGlory on February 26, 2006, 01:33:16 AM
I'm a lurker all the time and this is my first post here at this whole forum. I've lost tracking the number of my views of this movie, probably 10 or so, including the one earlier tonight. And I found myself cring harder each time, which is totally a surprise to myself. Just can't get away from this movie ever since I first saw it in early January. As a Chinese student pursuing my MBA here in the US I know how important it is for me to focus on my study and get decengt scores in the finals as the term is approaching its end, I just can't concentrate on anything except thinking about this movie all the time and lingering here till such late...sigh, someone saves me, i'm totally haunted.

This scene (and of course many others such as the final getting together, the tent scenes, the visit to Jack's parents and every single moment when they were up there on brokeback herding sheep) just blew me away! All I can do while watching this scene is to hold my hands together hardly in frong of my heart and imerse myself in the joy, passion, and longing they have for each other.

I am so happy to find you all here, as my English is so poor that I couldn't express my feeling precisely and you all have done the job for me. You've caught every single moment for me. Believe it or not, I saved a lot of the posts you guys put up here in my laptop. I believe these will be an important part of my "collections" of BBM. So far I've got the soundtrack, the book (with screenplay and the story), the Feb 28 "advocate" with the dozy embrace shot as the cover, and am waiting for the promotion book (78 pages of color pictures of the movie), and am definitely going to get the DVD once it's released!

Again, thank you all for your great analysis and sharing your feelings about BBM here. It feels so great to see that I am not the only "abnormal" person:)

Hopefully I could come back more often after I finish the final exams next week!   
 
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Jaysmommy on February 26, 2006, 01:43:47 AM
Hopefully I could come back more often after I finish the final exams next week!   
 

Welcome to our world, FadingGlory, and if your post is an example of poor English, I don't know what good English is! You write wonderfully. :)

Good Luck on the finals!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: peteinportland on February 26, 2006, 02:13:52 AM
Well, fading glory, that heartfelt post really touched me. I love this scene too (sigh, is there any scene I don't love--even the hard ones?). Thank you for posting.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Aloysius on February 26, 2006, 03:29:40 PM
There are so many "what ifs" in fiction that it drives me mad. That was one of the many scenes where I wanted to scream out a compromise.
Quote
It's funny.  When I watched Gyllenhaal on Oprah, he repeatedly states how ambiguous the movie is.  So I looked it up just to be clear (the opposite of ambiguous!) Ang Lee capitalizes on what Proulx intended (ambiguity).  Not because the story or the movie needed it but because Ennis and Jack's relationship is full of it.  There's a line in the book when their sheep get mixed with the Chilean sheep where Proulx writes, "In a disquieting way everything seemed mixed." 

That's why we are all so touched by it.  Why we are all wanting to scream.  Weeping upon the fateful outcome.  Full of the if-onlys that you see Ennis struggle with in the last scene.
Exactly.  It's purposely meant to be ambiguous, because ultimately it's the life Ennis & Jack COULD OF have that haunts us so much.

Plus, why would we have this board?  Everything would be already spelled out for us!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: valkyrie911 on February 26, 2006, 03:39:33 PM
Um, for no real reason at all can I just state that this is my favorite scene. I don't care what Ennis takes with him, (but does he still go commando, hmmm). Those few seconds starting with his smile when he sees Jack's truck then surprising Jack with that kiss....it's like the best movie scene ever.

Ok I just felt like saying that and reminding everyone what it feels like when you're sitting there in the theatre an crazy anticipation then wishing it would never end.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: alma on February 26, 2006, 03:41:57 PM
Um, for no real reason at all can I just state that this is my favorite scene. I don't care what Ennis takes with him, (but does he still go commando, hmmm). Those few seconds starting with his smile when he sees Jack's truck then surprising Jack with that kiss....it's like the best movie scene ever.

Ok I just felt like saying that and reminding everyone what it feels like when you're sitting there in the theatre an crazy anticipation then wishing it would never end.

Val, we must be on the same wavelength today. I am totally with you. This is my favorite movie scene ever and I get new moments of it that I love each time I see it. That moment of tension when Ennis scans the horizon to figure out if anyone can see them is like getting to the top of a roller coaster and then Wham! Rush. Cold air and exhilaration.

Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: valkyrie911 on February 26, 2006, 03:53:41 PM
Um, for no real reason at all can I just state that this is my favorite scene. I don't care what Ennis takes with him, (but does he still go commando, hmmm). Those few seconds starting with his smile when he sees Jack's truck then surprising Jack with that kiss....it's like the best movie scene ever.

Ok I just felt like saying that and reminding everyone what it feels like when you're sitting there in the theatre an crazy anticipation then wishing it would never end.

Val, we must be on the same wavelength today. I am totally with you. This is my favorite movie scene ever and I get new moments of it that I love each time I see it. That moment of tension when Ennis scans the horizon to figure out if anyone can see them is like getting to the top of a roller coaster and then Wham! Rush. Cold air and exhilaration.



"top of a roller coaster"  ooh that's just like it because I don't think I remember to breathe again until they walk up the stairs! That first look by Ennis like if he doesn't kiss him he's gonna kill him because he's been holding in so much passion then that look of surprise by Jack and he grabs him back like he's found something he thought he'd lost....sigh
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ellye on February 26, 2006, 03:59:51 PM
I'm going to ask this question again since we have new people join all time...has anyone figured out what Ennis takes out of the medicine cabinet while he gets ready to go with Jack? It must be something that eather Heath gets to help with his character or the script says he gets (something) out of Medicine cabnet...since there is not a wasted moment in this film, I would love to know...any ideas? (
Todd

I think I hear a sound that sounds like pills in a bottle.


As he has a toothbrush in his mouth, it must be toothpaste, mustn't it?! He didn't take anything else out of the bathroom and that would be where it was kept.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: lolita on February 26, 2006, 09:27:33 PM
I thought it was a bottle of asprin or painkillers...
The boys did like their whiskey...
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: chaya on February 27, 2006, 05:45:20 AM
I'm going to ask this question again since we have new people join all time...has anyone figured out what Ennis takes out of the medicine cabinet while he gets ready to go with Jack? It must be something that eather Heath gets to help with his character or the script says he gets (something) out of Medicine cabnet...since there is not a wasted moment in this film, I would love to know...any ideas? (
Todd
I think I hear a sound that sounds like pills in a bottle.
As he has a toothbrush in his mouth, it must be toothpaste, mustn't it?! He didn't take anything else out of the bathroom and that would be where it was kept.

I think he took a small container of Vaseline  ;) , which they would have had, having two small kids.  Another part of this scene I love is when Ennis returns to the apt after the motel night. Mr. Uptight, shirt-always-tucked-in-and-together is all breathless, excited, and the front of his shirt is hanging out of his pants.  It's as though he couldn't even get out of the truck without one more hot embrace!  :-*  I'm sure poor Alma noticed it all.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: valkyrie911 on February 27, 2006, 07:09:21 AM
I'm going to ask this question again since we have new people join all time...has anyone figured out what Ennis takes out of the medicine cabinet while he gets ready to go with Jack? It must be something that eather Heath gets to help with his character or the script says he gets (something) out of Medicine cabnet...since there is not a wasted moment in this film, I would love to know...any ideas? (
Todd
I think I hear a sound that sounds like pills in a bottle.
As he has a toothbrush in his mouth, it must be toothpaste, mustn't it?! He didn't take anything else out of the bathroom and that would be where it was kept.

I think he took a small container of Vaseline  ;) , which they would have had, having two small kids.  Another part of this scene I love is when Ennis returns to the apt after the motel night. Mr. Uptight, shirt-always-tucked-in-and-together is all breathless, excited, and the front of his shirt is hanging out of his pants.  It's as though he couldn't even get out of the truck without one more hot embrace!  :-*  I'm sure poor Alma noticed it all.

I noticed that too! It was like he was anal about tucking in his shirt!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: jenjo on February 27, 2006, 07:27:32 PM
Um, for no real reason at all can I just state that this is my favorite scene. I don't care what Ennis takes with him, (but does he still go commando, hmmm). Those few seconds starting with his smile when he sees Jack's truck then surprising Jack with that kiss....it's like the best movie scene ever.

Ok I just felt like saying that and reminding everyone what it feels like when you're sitting there in the theatre an crazy anticipation then wishing it would never end.

Val, we must be on the same wavelength today. I am totally with you. This is my favorite movie scene ever and I get new moments of it that I love each time I see it. That moment of tension when Ennis scans the horizon to figure out if anyone can see them is like getting to the top of a roller coaster and then Wham! Rush. Cold air and exhilaration.



"top of a roller coaster"  ooh that's just like it because I don't think I remember to breathe again until they walk up the stairs! That first look by Ennis like if he doesn't kiss him he's gonna kill him because he's been holding in so much passion then that look of surprise by Jack and he grabs him back like he's found something he thought he'd lost....sigh

Count me in, too! And, knowing Ennis the way Jack did, don't you just know he was over the moon when Ennis grabbed him and kissed him?! In broad daylight! In Riverton, Wyoming!! Lots of people bash Ennis for not being more verbal with his feelings, but I'm guessing Jack figured out everything he needed to know in those (too brief!) minutes. If that wasn't the nonverbal version of "I love you and I've missed you and I CAN'T WAIT to get you into bed," then I don't know what is! (I liked the roller coaster analogy, too. Y'all are all so good at expressing yourselves.)
Jenjo
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: valkyrie911 on February 27, 2006, 07:38:21 PM
Um, for no real reason at all can I just state that this is my favorite scene. I don't care what Ennis takes with him, (but does he still go commando, hmmm). Those few seconds starting with his smile when he sees Jack's truck then surprising Jack with that kiss....it's like the best movie scene ever.

Ok I just felt like saying that and reminding everyone what it feels like when you're sitting there in the theatre an crazy anticipation then wishing it would never end.

Val, we must be on the same wavelength today. I am totally with you. This is my favorite movie scene ever and I get new moments of it that I love each time I see it. That moment of tension when Ennis scans the horizon to figure out if anyone can see them is like getting to the top of a roller coaster and then Wham! Rush. Cold air and exhilaration.



"top of a roller coaster"  ooh that's just like it because I don't think I remember to breathe again until they walk up the stairs! That first look by Ennis like if he doesn't kiss him he's gonna kill him because he's been holding in so much passion then that look of surprise by Jack and he grabs him back like he's found something he thought he'd lost....sigh

Count me in, too! And, knowing Ennis the way Jack did, don't you just know he was over the moon when Ennis grabbed him and kissed him?! In broad daylight! In Riverton, Wyoming!! Lots of people bash Ennis for not being more verbal with his feelings, but I'm guessing Jack figured out everything he needed to know in those (too brief!) minutes. If that wasn't the nonverbal version of "I love you and I've missed you and I CAN'T WAIT to get you into bed," then I don't know what is! (I liked the roller coaster analogy, too. Y'all are all so good at expressing yourselves.)
Jenjo

I know I shouldn't... but I can't help it.

(http://www.maxwelldemon.com/reunion 2.jpg)
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Rob. on February 27, 2006, 08:15:29 PM
  Not gonna quote the whole thing....but man...that scene really is perfect.....

  From the little half-smirk on Ennis' face as he's about to slam Jack into the wall - to the look of almost disbelief on Jacks - which quickly changes to near rapture - then to hunger..

  But for me, it's especially Jack's expressions.  Just incredible!

  Rob
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: valkyrie911 on February 27, 2006, 08:24:43 PM
  Not gonna quote the whole thing....but man...that scene really is perfect.....

  From the little half-smirk on Ennis' face as he's about to slam Jack into the wall - to the look of almost disbelief on Jacks - which quickly changes to near rapture - then to hunger..

  But for me, it's especially Jack's expressions.  Just incredible!

  Rob

Sorry I brightened this scene up. How can you not love the expressions on their faces?

(http://www.maxwelldemon.com/reunion 1.jpg)
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Missy on February 28, 2006, 11:52:43 AM
Thank you for brightening the picture! I am always straining my eyes to catch every facial expression in this scene, and some parts are just too dark! Those looks are so powerful, they say so much more than the characters ever verbalize.

FYI, I've read this entire thread, but I have never posted here. It seems like you all covered everything I was thinking and reading this has been about as much fun as watching the movie. Thanks!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: rnmina on February 28, 2006, 02:21:15 PM
And Ennis, not big on enderaments said what he said to his horses and daughters, little darlin'.
(Not in the movie but such a great line)

How I would have LOVED to have seen that in the movie...
I would also  have loved to have heard and seen that line. I  just can't get enough of this movie.
Please, bring on the DVD, and soon.
I'm happily reading and crying  :'( my way through this invaluable resource, the davecullen boards.
TY :)
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: rnmina on February 28, 2006, 03:34:47 PM
Cythera4, I'm with you.  As a straight female I had no idea this would guy on guy action would be so freakin' HOT! 

We may be dealing with a cross-gender super-sex cultural revolution of some sort....
Abso-fuking-lutely ;) :)
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: rnmina on February 28, 2006, 03:53:47 PM
Cythera4, I'm with you.  As a straight female I had no idea this would guy on guy action would be so freakin' HOT! 

We may be dealing with a cross-gender super-sex cultural revolution of some sort....

HOLY CRAP INDEED aevkc!  I am totally with you ladies here. I had no idea I would be so turned on by two guys together! And because it's these 2 incredibly beautiful men, I could sit and watch the reunion kiss all damn day! When Ennis pushes Jack up against the wall, just totally going for it, WOW!
And I too love the expression on Jack's face - shock and awe, oh yeah! More than he might have hoped for, but you can imagine him dreaming this exact scenario as he "redlined it" all the way to Riverton. 

And the way they caress each other's faces, oh God.....I've been aroused by a many a great love scene in my movie-watching history, but nothing has ever brought me to me knees like this. How Jake, Ennis and Ang were able to make these love scenes so intensely believable is beyond my comprehension!

I continue to be astonished by my reaction to this film.
I'm still in shock. I have yet to post a articulate coherent review in my journal,  and I've been to see it 9  times since December. I can't believe the tumultuous emotions aroused  in my being  as I watch this movie over and over and over...I have an awards DVD.  I know I will have to  take a week off, when I purchase the DVD, just to watch it over, and over,  and over and over again.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Goldfish on February 28, 2006, 04:28:58 PM
*waves to Bre*

The debat has raged on about who bottomed who in the hotel scene (I think the config set in the initial scene was the only config they had.) but I was wondering, judging by their emotional state at the time of the reunion, I wondered if they made love more primally (first tent scene) playfully (during Aquirre's peep show) or more tenderly (second tent scene) They were apart from each other for 4 years and they did nearly rip each other's heads off kissing but at the same time, maybe after dinner and a few drinks, and some great talk, they were in a different mental/emotional state. Anybody got any opinion on this?
[/color]


I will say all of the above because they had all afternoon, evening and all night together!! ;)

  Err.....After 4 years apart - and especially after THAT kiss - if *I* were either one of them - the other would have been dinner  At 23 years old now - I see about 5 hours of fantastic mind-blowing sex before either needed to come up for air. :o

  Rob

I'll bet they didn't make it to the motel before at least one of them ate. I find it soooo difficult to see Ennis in any other position than on top. It just wouldn't suit his personality to change roles and allow such intimacy. But that's my opinion.

I don't think that our boys ate anything but each other that night...look at them standing in the door way!!! thats hardly body language for burger and fries... and the next morning, Jack is heard saying "I'm starving, wanna get something to eat?"and as far as Ennis switching it up a bit, lets not forget he is in rather vulnerable positions in both the second night...(pulling jack onto him) and the hotel...laying on Jack, the more submissive positing...I find it hard to believe that Ennis didn't try it at least once...
I was thinking more in terms of that odd quirk Jack has going with the tonque thing.  BTW, in that shot Heath's tattoo is covered up because it's a close up. Sometimes it is and sometimes it's not. Someone said maybe he's supposed to have it because you can see it in a lot of scenes but I think it's a goof.

Ennis is definetly the sweatier looking one on the bed. The could have gotten up to get their cigarettes and that's how they ended up in their final position with Jack holding Ennis like that. Maybe he seems like he's all tough on the outside but when they are together not doing the deed he likes to be held and let's Jack take over, like the second night in the tent.


Hi, I know we have moved off this for a few days, but it's been bothering me. So I'm sorry to drag it out again. However, I am certain that they would have taken turns to bottom/top or whatever the expression is. Personally I think Ennis is a tender and sensitive lover. There are lots of examples of his tender side, obviously in the SNIT scene. But also in all of the scenes that they are together, Ennis always did all the chores like washing up and cooking etc. which to me is quite a "submissive" or caring gesture. Also look at the way he treated Cassie, he didn't refuse to dance with her or give her a foot rub. And in Jack and Ennis' earlier Brokeback days, he ordered soup for Jack even though he doesn't eat soup himself and offered to switch duty with Jack because Jack was fed up.
So my point is, in their sexual relationship, I am certain that Ennis would be sensitive to what Jack would have wanted or enjoyed. And if Jack didn't want to be bottomed Ennis would not have insisted on it every time. Jack is quite capable of ascerting himself. Judging by Jack's blissful expression on his face, he must have had a great time whether top or bottom. (if he had previously offered to switch duties, I am sure he would be willing to switch positions!)
Just my humble opinion. I think Ennis is a great and tender lover. Wish I was Jack!!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: valkyrie911 on February 28, 2006, 04:35:55 PM
And I wish I was the tomato in the middle of an Ennis and Jack sandwich!   ;)
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: playitagain on March 01, 2006, 04:46:19 PM

I'm going to ask this question again since we have new people join all time...has anyone figured out what Ennis takes out of the medicine cabinet while he gets ready to go with Jack? It must be something that eather Heath gets to help with his character or the script says he gets (something) out of Medicine cabnet...since there is not a wasted moment in this film, I would love to know...any ideas? (
Todd
I think I hear a sound that sounds like pills in a bottle.
As he has a toothbrush in his mouth, it must be toothpaste, mustn't it?! He didn't take anything else out of the bathroom and that would be where it was kept.

I had a strange flashback from my childhood of small metal cans of dental POWDER.  Inexpensive, probably. 
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: strazeme on March 03, 2006, 09:12:17 PM
When Jack pulls up in the pickup, notice he must have borrowed Lureen's vehicle ... because it's her colors.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: sinne on March 03, 2006, 10:10:33 PM
Thank you for brightening the picture! I am always straining my eyes to catch every facial expression in this scene, and some parts are just too dark! Those looks are so powerful, they say so much more than the characters ever verbalize.

FYI, I've read this entire thread, but I have never posted here. It seems like you all covered everything I was thinking and reading this has been about as much fun as watching the movie. Thanks!

Hey Missy!  Welcome!  I love this scene too and have watched the clip dozens of times.  I find BBM the most heartwrenching and erotic movie I've seen in years!  I almost passed out the first time I saw the reunion scene - when Ennis (!) grabs Jack and kisses him!  The part that really gets me now is when Ennis is trying to separate himself from Jack and he nuzzles him and says, "later".  It just kills me. Those two are so perfect together.  They gave it their all and have the best onscreen chemistry since Bogie and Bacall!  I hope there are all 13 takes of this scene on the DVD!!!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: romeshvr on March 04, 2006, 05:16:33 AM
I agree SINNE.  I love the reuinon part.  I love the way Ennis says later...:)
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: HazelEyedRaven on March 04, 2006, 02:12:18 PM
I agree SINNE.  I love the reuinon part.  I love the way Ennis says later...:)

I've watched the clip and I too, could have sworn he says, "Later".  But as I watch again, and maybe I poor audio, but it almost sounds like, "Hey.'

Just an observation.  May need to see it more to really get it.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: valkyrie911 on March 04, 2006, 03:45:41 PM

I'm going to ask this question again since we have new people join all time...has anyone figured out what Ennis takes out of the medicine cabinet while he gets ready to go with Jack? It must be something that eather Heath gets to help with his character or the script says he gets (something) out of Medicine cabnet...since there is not a wasted moment in this film, I would love to know...any ideas? (
Todd
I think I hear a sound that sounds like pills in a bottle.
As he has a toothbrush in his mouth, it must be toothpaste, mustn't it?! He didn't take anything else out of the bathroom and that would be where it was kept.

I had a strange flashback from my childhood of small metal cans of dental POWDER.  Inexpensive, probably. 
I was waiting for someone else to say something because I don't even think they still made it by the time I came along but I thought that too first thing but I said tooth paste. I really would have guest dental powder myself also. My next choice would be aspirins.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: brokeback101 on March 04, 2006, 04:09:54 PM
Quote
I agree SINNE.  I love the reuinon part.  I love the way Ennis says later...


I've watched the clip and I too, could have sworn he says, "Later".  But as I watch again, and maybe I poor audio, but it almost sounds like, "Hey.'

Just an observation.  May need to see it more to really get it.

the first time i seen the movie i didn't hear anything but after seeing the clip over and over ennis does say "later" and then before they kiss he says "come er"
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Poohbunn on March 04, 2006, 05:27:53 PM
I love that scene.  What a rare burst of enthusiasm on Ennis' part when he called "Jack F**king Twist!"  Isn't that the only time Ennis was exuberant during the whole film?  Running to each other like that for a really great hug, and the way Ennis pulled him out of public view to kiss him was heart warming.

Another scene from that visit that I loved was when they were talking in the hotel room and Jack told Ennis how he "redlined it" all the way there.  There was absolute adoration for Ennis in Jack's eyes.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Dal on March 04, 2006, 10:21:48 PM
I'm going to ask this question again since we have new people join all time...has anyone figured out what Ennis takes out of the medicine cabinet while he gets ready to go with Jack? It must be something that eather Heath gets to help with his character or the script says he gets (something) out of Medicine cabnet...since there is not a wasted moment in this film, I would love to know...any ideas?
Todd

Disassembled safety razor, rattling in its little box?  Or assembled, w/ a blade or two.  Would rattle a little, like that.

Dal
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: michelle on March 07, 2006, 08:50:47 PM
Found a fascinating, well-researched and sympathetic article on "Brokeback marriages" (the estimated 4% of American marriages that involve an unsuspecting straight woman and a gay man) that references the scene where Alma witnesses Ennis and Jack's passionate embrace and couples' reactions to the film. It also features a shot of Ennis and Alma at their wedding.

A few excerpts:

At first, Mrs. Remmele told nobody. "We live in a small rural community, and people just aren't openly gay here," she said. "I didn't want people making fun of him.

About two-thirds of the women who contact the International Straight Spouse Network in El Cerrito, Calif., eventually divorce, said Amity Pierce Buxton, 77, a retired school administrator who founded the group in 1992 and has been researching the topic since 1986.

Despite their shock and their anger, many women, especially those criticized by gay husbands for being too sexually demanding, are relieved to understand what was wrong.

The remaining third of those she has studied try to preserve their marriages, Dr. Buxton said. Half of those stay married for three years or more. More than 600 such couples belong to online support groups.

In a 2001 study, published in The Journal of Bisexuality, of 137 still-married gay and bisexual men and their wives, Dr. Buxton found that most lived in suburbs and medium-size cities and had been married for 11 to 30 years. Only tiny percentages lived in rural areas, where family privacy may be harder to maintain.

The survival of even a small minority of these marriages calls into question the conceptual shoe boxes into which human partnerships, affection, attraction, commitment and sexuality are often jammed. Describing their permutations and combinations turns out to be much more complicated than checking a box on a form labeled "gay," "bisexual" or "straight."

One woman in her 50's, who asked to be identified only as Trillian, out of concern for her husband's privacy, said that she and her husband formally divorced after she discovered his secret sexual life seven years ago, but they quickly decided to stay together. She has a satisfying monogamous sexual relationship with him, while he also has sex with men.

"He tried to go back in the closet, but the more research I did on the subject, the more I realized this is an integral part of the person," she said. "You can't just turn it off like a light switch. My husband is the man of my dreams, and I could not face the rest of my life with the man of my dreams being miserable and guilt ridden over being gay."


Full story: http://articles.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20060307093709990001&cid=2194
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: danac on March 07, 2006, 09:14:53 PM
I love it when Ennis touches Jack's face so tenderly and then brushes his face across Jack's...and the way Jack stands looking at Ennis - so adoring and impassioned.

My god, don't Heath and Jake deserve SOMETHING for pulling this scene off????
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Jaysmommy on March 07, 2006, 09:58:14 PM
I love it when Ennis touches Jack's face so tenderly and then brushes his face across Jack's...and the way Jack stands looking at Ennis - so adoring and impassioned.

My god, don't Heath and Jake deserve SOMETHING for pulling this scene off????

You're damn right they do....but I guess they'll have to settle for our undying devotion, respect, admiration and love......
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ellye on March 08, 2006, 06:58:55 AM
I agree SINNE.  I love the reuinon part.  I love the way Ennis says later...:)

I've watched the clip and I too, could have sworn he says, "Later".  But as I watch again, and maybe I poor audio, but it almost sounds like, "Hey.'

Just an observation.  May need to see it more to really get it.
No, he definitely says 'later' - and it fits in perfectly with the scene, cos Jack didn't want to let go of the moment - or Ennis! - like he was afraid to let him go, being so shocked at the way Ennis reacted to seeing him, so Ennis pulls Jack's hands away from his face and says 'later' to assure him they aren't finished yet and will continue ... later!

Love that scene.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Ginevra on March 08, 2006, 07:13:26 AM
Love that scene.

yes, definitely one of the hottest kissing scenes ever. It turns me on as hell. And folks, I'm a straight woman.  ;D
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: JackF******Twist on March 08, 2006, 07:39:40 AM
From the moment Ennis looks out of the window as Jack drives up to the ending of the kiss is perfect.  I love the kissing scene.  That is the only moment in the movie we are shown the depth of Ennis's feelings.  Even Jack looked surprised at the intensity of Ennis's kiss.  Would have loved to know what Jack's thoughts were after the kiss.  The short story said Jack was nervous and was shaking all over, but the screen play didn't say much.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Ginevra on March 08, 2006, 07:53:00 AM
From the moment Ennis looks out of the window as Jack drives up to the ending of the kiss is perfect. 

I'd say it is perfect from the moment we see Ennis nervously ("if he shows") waiting for Jack, completely absorbed in his thoughts, so spatially and emotionally distant from his own household. Gee...the tension until he sees Jack again is so tangible......I don't know how many times I watched this scene on line......Jack thoughts after the kiss? No thoughts, just desire, I guess.... ;)
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: calgaryactor on March 09, 2006, 12:45:42 AM
Here's some trivia for you fellow BROKEBACK fans.  The reunion scene was shot half a block off Main Street in Fort Macleod, Alberta - a small town about two hours drive south of Calgary.  I've worked as a summer stock actor in Fort Macleod, which houses one of the oldest operational vaudeville houses in Canada, The Empress Theatre.  The Elks Hall which you see in the background was our rehearsal space, and the coffee shop where Ennis meets Cassie for the last time is in fact Fort Macleod's Greyhound bus station.

In January 2006 the film was screened at The Empress Theatre - no small feat, since this is redneck country.  But the audience went wild, from what I understand.  People were lined up around the block to get in, and the theatre held a sellout reception (with tickets a whopping $15 each) after the show.

In February, my same sex husband (yes - blissfully and legally married in Canada since 2004!) and I went to see the film at The Empress when it returned due to popular demand.  We stole away to the staircase (leading up the apartment which must have been used for at least some of the interior shots, judging from what you can see out the window) and giddily re-enacted the smooch.  From what I understand from my gay pals in nearby Lethbridge, the staircase is becoming quite the destination for local gay couples, much to the chagrin of the photography studio on the ground floor.

Another connection with BROKEBACK is that in July & August 2004, I worked in Calgary on two scenes in the film  (my "Best Performance By An Indiscernible Spot Behind Jake Gyllenhaal's Head," I keep telling my friends).  Between 51:29 and 51:38, I'm the guy in the light colored shirt standing alone underneath the Exit sign waaaay in the background, between Jimbo and Jack.  One of these scenes is where Jack tries to seduce the rodeo clown, and the other was later where he first meets Lureen.  Between takes, I had the opportunity to talk briefly with Jake G; to tell him that I worked with Calgary's gay and lesbian theatre company TEATRO BERDACHE, and that we in fact had a play coming up in the fall - DEAR MR. KLEIN -  which had a closeted cowboy as one of its central characters. 

BROKEBACK is an amazing story, and an amazing film.  The fact that the story is so familiar to me is heightened by the fact that I've been pretty much to every mountain, creek, dusty old street and seedy bar that's shown in the film.  I've even been hiking on some of those trails with past friends and lovers, and the film's arresting images have made me wonder what's become of these people.  Being in love in the midst of that kind of beauty elevates the experience at least one hundred-fold.  One lover - with whom I shared a relationship much like Jack and Ennis' - eventually ran back into the closet, into a straight marriage. My heart aches for him when I think about him in this context.  It makes the story seem that much more profound.



Cheers,
Steve
Creative Director, Teatro Berdache
Calgary, Alberta
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: romeshvr on March 09, 2006, 04:19:30 AM
CALGARYACTOR, amazing story.  Thanks for posting it. 
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: madameshawshank on March 09, 2006, 01:39:10 PM
calgaryactor...keep posting...you are enriching us with your story....gems...has there EVER been such a thing as this...I think of Annie's (oops..keep thinking keep on track...the reunion...)....the power of the scene...Ennis flew down those stairs...he appeared to touch the steps..however the man had wings at that moment....someone once said "if life would allow it"..I think of Ennis' life....often

ok..now..ya got that calgaryactor...keep on a postin'

hugs
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: sinne on March 09, 2006, 04:46:31 PM
Here's some trivia for you fellow BROKEBACK fans.  The reunion scene was shot half a block off Main Street in Fort Macleod, Alberta - a small town about two hours drive south of Calgary.  I've worked as a summer stock actor in Fort Macleod, which houses one of the oldest operational vaudeville houses in Canada, The Empress Theatre.  The Elks Hall which you see in the background was our rehearsal space, and the coffee shop where Ennis meets his waitress girlfriend for the last time is in fact Fort Macleod's Greyhound bus station.

In January 2006 the film was screened at The Empress Theatre - no small feat, since this is redneck country.  But the audience went wild, from what I understand.  People were lined up around the block to get in, and the theatre held a sellout reception (with tickets a whopping $15 each) after the show.

In February, my same sex husband (yes - blissfully and legally married in Canada since 2004!) and I went to see the film at The Empress when it returned due to popular demand.  We stole away to the staircase (leading up the apartment which must have been used for at least some of the interior shots, judging from what you can see out the window) and giddily re-enacted the smooch.  From what I understand from my gay pals in nearby Lethbridge, the staircase is becoming quite the destination for local gay couples, much to the chagrin of the photography studio on the ground floor.

Another connection with BROKEBACK is that on July 26, 2004, I worked in Calgary on two scenes that were shot at The Ranchman's Club (my "Best Performance By An Indiscernible Spot Behind Jake Gyllenhaal's Head," I keep telling my friends).  These were the scenes where Jack tries to seduce the rodeo clown, and later where he first meets Lureen.  Between takes, I had the opportunity to talk briefly with Jake G; to tell him that I worked with Calgary's gay and lesbian theatre company TEATRO BERDACHE, and that we in fact had a play coming up in the fall - DEAR MR. KLEIN -  which had a closeted cowboy as one of its central characters. 

BROKEBACK is an amazing story, and an amazing film.  The fact that the story is so familiar to me is heightened by the fact that I've been pretty much to every mountain, creek, dusty old street and seedy bar that's shown in the film.  I've even been hiking on some of those trails with past friends and lovers, and the film's arresting images have made me wonder what's become of these people.  Being in love in the midst of that kind of beauty elevates the experience at least one hundred-fold.  One lover - with whom I shared a relationship much like Jack and Ennis' - eventually ran back into the closet, into a straight marriage. My heart aches for him when I think about him in this context.  It makes the story seem that much more profound.

Cheers,
Steve
Creative Director, Teatro Berdache
Calgary, Alberta

Steve - Wow!  Thanks for the inside information.  I would LOVE to go to Alberta and visit all of the locations that were used in the movie.  I'm surprised when I read so many people are going to Wyoming, as I'd much rather go to where the actual movie was made.  Of course, I'm Canadian and proud of it (especially in the past few years with same sex legislation etc.) so I hope BBM will draw lots of people to our beautiful country.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: MichInOz on March 10, 2006, 05:44:59 AM
Here's some trivia for you fellow BROKEBACK fans.  The reunion scene was shot half a block off Main Street in Fort Macleod, Alberta - a small town about two hours drive south of Calgary.  I've worked as a summer stock actor in Fort Macleod, which houses one of the oldest operational vaudeville houses in Canada, The Empress Theatre.  The Elks Hall which you see in the background was our rehearsal space, and the coffee shop where Ennis meets his waitress girlfriend for the last time is in fact Fort Macleod's Greyhound bus station.

In February, my same sex husband (yes - blissfully and legally married in Canada since 2004!) and I went to see the film at The Empress when it returned due to popular demand.  We stole away to the staircase (leading up the apartment which must have been used for at least some of the interior shots, judging from what you can see out the window) and giddily re-enacted the smooch.  From what I understand from my gay pals in nearby Lethbridge, the staircase is becoming quite the destination for local gay couples, much to the chagrin of the photography studio on the ground floor.

BROKEBACK is an amazing story, and an amazing film.  The fact that the story is so familiar to me is heightened by the fact that I've been pretty much to every mountain, creek, dusty old street and seedy bar that's shown in the film.  I've even been hiking on some of those trails with past friends and lovers, and the film's arresting images have made me wonder what's become of these people.  Being in love in the midst of that kind of beauty elevates the experience at least one hundred-fold.  One lover - with whom I shared a relationship much like Jack and Ennis' - eventually ran back into the closet, into a straight marriage. My heart aches for him when I think about him in this context.  It makes the story seem that much more profound.

Cheers,
Steve
Creative Director, Teatro Berdache
Calgary, Alberta


Great post!   ;D
Hey I was wondering - "brokeback mountain" what is this mountain actually called?  Does anyone know the name of the real brokeback?

Michelle  :-*
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: calgaryactor on March 10, 2006, 10:24:58 AM
Re: Reply #611
Hey I was wondering - "brokeback mountain" what is this mountain actually called?  Does anyone know the name of the real brokeback?

Hi Michelle:
Hard to say - there were so many different shooting locations used to represent Brokeback Mountain, and their subsequent trips afterwards.  On the back of the cd, there's a photo of Wind Tower, which you can see to your left off the Trans Canada highway as you're traveling north from Calgary towards Canmore, Alberta.  The postcard which Ennis has tacked inside his closet also seems to resemble Wind Tower.  Several scenes representing Brokeback were shot on Moose Mountain near Bragg Creek ...... and the scene where Ennis watches Jack ascend on horseback amongst the sheep is a mountain visible from the Sawmill Day Use area along the Smith Dorian Highway.  So answering that question is complicated!

I've read somewhere that there is no real Brokeback Mountain in Wyoming - though I'd love to go see the places that inspired Annie Proulx's story.

To bring it back to the subject of this thread, these mountains are about a three hour drive north west of Fort Macleod, where the reunion scene was filmed.  It would make one heck of a scenic holiday to come take a look at these places, and you'd be covering a lot of territory.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: peteinportland on March 10, 2006, 06:47:33 PM
Steve, great info. Thanks for posting.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: playitagain on March 10, 2006, 06:56:49 PM
I've been watching this scene again and again on a video clip, since the film entire is no longer being shown in matinee at my local Multiplex and I can't go in the evening.

it's an amazing scene.  Erotic, yes, but I think that's not all that draws me.  Terrific perfomances. 

It's clear in this scene that these men are not going to let go of each other - and that the intimacy that grew in their time on BBMt was profound.

And you "get them" - who they are.



Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: moonbeam on March 12, 2006, 04:58:41 PM
Quote

I just returned from viewing number....no, I'm not going to tell you...to embarrassed...



No, tell us, tell us!  Be proud.

ok...11!!! no movie has EVER effected me the way this one has...it is indeed life altering...the way art should be

Proud Todd

I know... I have only seen it four times but I feel the same way, Todd. I am kind of glad I didn't get a chance to see it until late febuary because if I had seen it when it came out I would have gone insane waiting for the dvd. It is all I can do to wait these few weeks. And, just like you, no movie has ever effected me this way. I can't explain it and I can't stop thinking about it.  I love this movie soooo much... it has changed my life!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Jaysmommy on March 12, 2006, 05:05:15 PM
I've been watching this scene again and again on a video clip, since the film entire is no longer being shown in matinee at my local Multiplex and I can't go in the evening.

it's an amazing scene.  Erotic, yes, but I think that's not all that draws me.  Terrific perfomances. 

It's clear in this scene that these men are not going to let go of each other - and that the intimacy that grew in their time on BBMt was profound.

And you "get them" - who they are.






Playitagain,
can you share that link? The ones I had on youtube and yousendit are no longer avail....
Thanks!!!  :)
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: moonbeam on March 12, 2006, 05:10:31 PM
crcj, that is a completely convincing analysis. You're so perceptive about how Ennis's attitudes about work and family pressures shift immediately when Jack reappears. I think from the first moment he got the postcard he was thinking maybe they could be together physically again. Even the way that scene is shot: he turns away from Alma and we see him reading the words to himself, as if he's talking now to Jack and all the rest of his life is suddenly behind him and less important. I don't think he thought just touching Jack again would overwhelm him like it does, but he was pretty clearly scheming, more or less consciously, on reigniting what they had together. The return letter he sends--"You Bet"--says it all.

God, I can't believe how deep the movie is. I've seen it 4 times now and keep catching little moments. The acting is so subtle and the direction so delicate. I was concerned before I saw it the first time either that it would be too discreet and evasive or else too baldly melodramatic and drippy. What's amazing is how truthfully and powerfully it tells the story.

I somehow have to figure out how to stop being obsessed with this movie. I almost cancelled a poker night with friends last night to see it again. And when they started talking about the movie among themselves, I had to bite my tongue for fear they'd think I've gone loopy. I'm a little worried that when it comes out on DVD I may never leave the house again.

You won't be the only one that will never leave home after the DVD comes out. I am going to the store the night before to buy popcorn and soda and making meals that can be microwaved so that nothing can hinder me from watching this movie over and over and over.... I also empathize with the 'try to figure out how to stop being obsessed" comment and it made me think.. "I love this movie so much and I want to talk about it all the time. To anyone who will listen...what must have it been like for Jack and Ennis, who loved each other to the point of obsession, to not be able to talk about each other to anyone else" That's it.. I am going to see it again!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: moonbeam on March 12, 2006, 05:48:12 PM
Yes! I thought so too. Jack just looks like he's going to cry. So amazing. I also love when they're trying to pull apart and get it together to go up and see Alma. Jack won't let go of Ennis and it seems like he's trying to reconnect with Ennis's mouth and kiss him again. And then Ennis kind of nuzzles him and says "Later." Jack's face just looks devastated (in a good way!) with passion. So moving and sexy all at once! This scene literally took my breath away the first time I saw it.

So he definitely says "Later"? I wasn't sure. What I think is so well-acted too too is how is how Ennis, after he's disentangled himself from the love of his life (and the whole *smell* of him, being immersed in Jasck again after 4 years apart), has to look around before heading up the stairs. Even at this moment of maximum passion in his life, he has to make sure no one has seen them in the clinch. It's so sad.

Maybe I am being naive, but I would like to hope that he was reorienting himself to reality after the kiss. Have you ever kissed someone and forgotten where you were? I hope this was the case with Ennis. ps.- The reunion scene is the hottest scene I have ever seen in a movie. By far.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ellye on March 13, 2006, 03:58:43 AM

So he definitely says "Later"? I wasn't sure. What I think is so well-acted too too is how is how Ennis, after he's disentangled himself from the love of his life (and the whole *smell* of him, being immersed in Jasck again after 4 years apart), has to look around before heading up the stairs. Even at this moment of maximum passion in his life, he has to make sure no one has seen them in the clinch. It's so sad.

Maybe I am being naive, but I would like to hope that he was reorienting himself to reality after the kiss. Have you ever kissed someone and forgotten where you were? I hope this was the case with Ennis. ps.- The reunion scene is the hottest scene I have ever seen in a movie. By far.


He definitely says later, and, in fact, since someone posted their favrorite scenes up on youtube, to include this scene, it's never been heard so loud, probably and ... I hate to possibly start up another who heard what argument, but when I played this loud version for the first time the other day I remembered ages ago someone saying they heard Ennis say something as he tried to prise himself away from Jack to go up and talk to Alma. Now I couldn't hear anything on my DVD or online, but this new version is so loud, that yes, I do indeed hear Ennis saying something!

Unfortunately because it's under the music his words aren't easy to understand - not to me anyway - but he definitely says something that seems like along the lines of 'come here now', though I repeat, that's just along the lines of what he says, it sounds something LIKE that,  I don't hear the exact words cos of the music, but the sentiment is probably like 'come here now' cos obviously he's telling Jack they'll continue this 'later' but for now ... Jack has to go and be polite to Alma!

It's amazing the things you discover about this film the louder you can hear it! lol!  ;D

Anyway, as I say, it's what I definitely hear now, but whether anyone else does .. is another matter! It's on the 'MV- Ennis and Jack best moments' clip on youtube.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: danac on March 13, 2006, 07:10:46 AM
I agree SINNE.  I love the reuinon part.  I love the way Ennis says later...:)

I've watched the clip and I too, could have sworn he says, "Later".  But as I watch again, and maybe I poor audio, but it almost sounds like, "Hey.'

Just an observation.  May need to see it more to really get it.
No, he definitely says 'later' - and it fits in perfectly with the scene, cos Jack didn't want to let go of the moment - or Ennis! - like he was afraid
to let him go, being so shocked at the way Ennis reacted to seeing him, so Ennis pulls Jack's hands away from his face and says 'later' to assure him they aren't finished yet and will continue ... later!

No, I think he says " hey" when he brushes his hand on Jack's face...and then says something like " gotta go up " or something on his way upstairs. But, DEFINITELY HOT moment is when they break and Jack keeps following Ennis' mouth with his head and eyes...good grief!!!

Love that scene.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: danac on March 13, 2006, 08:06:38 AM
Talk about the reunion here.

Has anyone else the gut-wrenching expression on Ennis' face in the motel when Jack asks "What are we gonna do now?"
It is a superb performance from Heath - because he so eloquently expresses the pain Ennis feels at being reunited but knowing they can't fix it...

And, the sweet tenderness of the reunion campfire night when he tells Jack he's "sending up a prayer of thanks"...
and we know that thanks is that he has Jack back in life...! These are moments in which Heath and the script truly shine.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: mwp2paris on March 13, 2006, 08:19:52 AM
I love the way Ennis pulls Jack's arm in closer to his neck when they are reclining on the bed at the motel. The familiarity and tenderness of that little tug is just perfect.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: danac on March 13, 2006, 08:30:12 AM
I love the way Ennis pulls Jack's arm in closer to his neck when they are recling on the bed at the motel. The familiarity and tenderness of that little tug is just perfect.

Yeah, that's great...it also speaks to Ennis' inability to verbalize what he feels, but that gesture speaks volumes!

The contrast is great, too...although heartbreaking: Jack is so hopeful and Ennis is so anguished.
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: danac on March 13, 2006, 08:50:11 AM
What M Alexander said. I guess we all want that "little darlin' ", but yes, Ennis said it sometimes, we just weren't there. And notice how the music starts up when they meet, that music that's so familiar to me now I tear up just hearing the first note.

Here's the French site that includes a clip of the reunion scene - Ennis waiting up to the look around. The way Jack looks at Ennis after they break the hug just slays me. The hug could be just hey, sonofabitch, nice to see you, but then his eyes go to Ennis' mouth and stay there and

http://www.pathedistribution.com/accueil/videos.php?start=0&IDFilm=610

No kidding...that is either some piece of acting ( probably ) or they really got swept into the moment!!! Very, very hot.
 
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ellye on March 13, 2006, 09:16:01 AM
I love the way Ennis pulls Jack's arm in closer to his neck when they are recling on the bed at the motel. The familiarity and tenderness of that little tug is just perfect.
Oh I LOVE that, the way he touches Jack's arm, and specially when Jack says 'Brokeback got us good, don't it'? and he rubs Jack's arm as his way of agreeing with him. Cos we see the look in his eyes then but  Jack doesn't of course.

::sigh:: Heartwarming and heartbreaking at the same time.

Every intimate scene they did they managed to look totally real and comfortable and natural and this is no different, as if they make a habit of lying in a bed together naked like that!  ;D

And how nice for Jack and Ennis to actually BE in a bed together! Makes a change from the floor of a tent!

Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Rob. on March 13, 2006, 09:28:24 AM

And how nice for Jack and Ennis to actually BE in a bed together! Makes a change from the floor of a tent!



  Even nicer for us to be watching them in that bed instead of the crowded tent....wait...no....that was my dream last night...sorry - back to the reunion :)!

  Seriously - you pick up little nuances every time you see it.  I can't count how many times I've seen this scene and still every time I see a little more.  Ang Lee is a truly gifted director working through two incredibly gifted and (DOH) passionate actors.

  The 5 minutes of this scene should be a part of every acting class.

  Rob
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: aevkc on March 13, 2006, 09:44:16 AM
This is probably not the right place to post this and it's probably more information than any of you wanted, but it made me laugh...  Last night my husband was "in the mood" and I wasn't and he was trying to talk me into it and he finally said, "Just pretend you're in a damn tent!"  Cracked me up.  The man knows me too well.   ;)
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Rob. on March 13, 2006, 10:15:41 AM
This is probably not the right place to post this and it's probably more information than any of you wanted, but it made me laugh...  Last night my husband was "in the mood" and I wasn't and he was trying to talk me into it and he finally said, "Just pretend you're in a damn tent!"  Cracked me up.  The man knows me too well.   ;)

  Just toss him into a wall a few times.  Either he'll get so battered he'll give up - or you'll get so hot - he'll win  ;) :D!

  Rob
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: aevkc on March 13, 2006, 10:19:07 AM
Rob, you crack me up.  I think that's one of the reasons I like the reunion scene so much, I WISH he'd throw me up against a wall.  I'd probably end up with broken ribs or something, but I'm guessing it would be worth it in the end.   ;)
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Jaysmommy on March 13, 2006, 10:31:54 AM
I love the way Ennis pulls Jack's arm in closer to his neck when they are recling on the bed at the motel. The familiarity and tenderness of that little tug is just perfect.
Oh I LOVE that, the way he touches Jack's arm, and specially when Jack says 'Brokeback got us good, don't it'? and he rubs Jack's arm as his way of agreeing with him. Cos we see the look in his eyes then but  Jack doesn't of course.


I love this too. Ennis is not able to verbally express how much love he feels for Jack, but the continued tugging on the arm and gentle stroking says it all.....and Jack understands totally. Jack also understands that after he tells Ennis of redlining it all the way there, and then asks Ennis "What about you?", when Ennis answers, "Me?....I don't know", this is Ennis's way of letting Jack know just how much he loves him.

After the reunion kiss, could there be any question of how Ennis feels? No way!

God, how I would have loved to watch a few seconds of them making love in that hotel room....Wow!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: LondonJakeFan on March 13, 2006, 10:50:22 AM
But, DEFINITELY HOT moment is when they break and Jack keeps following Ennis' mouth with his head and eyes...good grief!!!

Love that scene.

Couldnt agree more. Jack is soooooo into that kiss he never wants it to end. Great stuff.

For the record, I hear Ennis mutter 'Later' but not a lot else
Title: Re: The Reunion
Post by: danac on March 13, 2006, 04:54:38 PM
Folks: more apparant in the short story than in the movie is that on Jack's part at least, there is a whole lotta shakin goin on. I have a few theories of my own as to why Jack might be trembling from head to toe but none that I am entirely convinced about. I wonder what you all think? Here's the text:

"You got a kid?" said Jack. His shaking hand grazed Ennis's hand, electrical current snapped between them.

"Two little girls," Ennis said. "Alma Jr. and Francine. Love them to pieces." Alma's mouth twitched.

"I got a boy," said Jack. "Eight months old. Tell you what, I married a cute little old Texas girl down in Childress -- Lureen." From the vibration of the floorboard on which they both stood Ennis could feel how hard Jack was shaking.
"Alma," he said. "Jack and me is goin out and get a drink. Might not get back tonight, we get drinkin and talkin."

"Sure enough," Alma said, taking a dollar bill from her pocket. Ennis guessed she was going to ask him to get her a pack of cigarettes, bring him back sooner.

"Please to meet you," said Jack, trembling like a run-out horse.


I think both actors do a superb job in this scene: Jack is so emotionally charged, he lowers his head - after saying he married the "prettiest little gal in Childress" - and note how Ennis looks at him, knows he's shaking and hurries to get out of there. Note, too, how Ennis' face tightens once he grabs his jacket and starts Jack out the door.

Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: romeshvr on March 13, 2006, 06:07:52 PM
Let me take a guess... Jack was shaking because in the 4 years since BBM he hasn't been with any other guy?
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: downloaded1 on March 13, 2006, 06:08:28 PM
Let me take a guess... Jack was shaking because in the 4 years since BBM he hasn't been with any other guy?


not with the one he really wants
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: valkyrie911 on March 13, 2006, 07:28:23 PM
Let me take a guess... Jack was shaking because in the 4 years since BBM he hasn't been with any other guy?


not with the one he really wants
I imagine he's so pumped with adrenaline from that kiss he can't control himself
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: amscram on March 13, 2006, 08:21:44 PM
I can SO relate to Jack trembling all over.  Four months after I met my first BF (and boy, was I head over heels) -  he went to Europe for 8 weeks - this trip had been in the works before we met and he couldn't back out and I couldnt' afford the time or money to go with him. When he finally returned and I looked out the window & saw him walking towards my door I started shaking and no way could I control it.  He thought it was endearing and I was glad, because I just couldn't stop trembling for the longest time.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: vadour on March 13, 2006, 08:33:21 PM
I discovered this forum a week or so ago and has it ever been a lifesaver! Obviously I'm not the only one hooked on this film.

I 've just completed reading all the posts in this thread (and I'm about half way thru the one regarding the second night in the tent). It has been a pleasure to read....much humor and insight.

I think those two scenes are my favorites to date. I've been watching a clip of the reunion scene and thanks to all the stuff here, I'm seeing things I hadn't before.

I've just realized something else. The hets have their share of star-crossed lovers: Romeo and Juliet, Scarlett and Rhett, Rick and Ilsa. And who did we have? Dorothy and Toto? Well, now we, and the world, have Ennis and Jack.

It's late and I'll post more later. You all have set a high standard. I hope I can approach it.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: moonbeam on March 13, 2006, 08:45:18 PM
welcome Vadour! We love new people! (says a fairly new person!) This forum has saved my life too! I love this movie SO much and it is so festive to have people who want to analyze every detail with you! It also gives you such great insight into the movie! It also makes me feel like I am not insane for loving it so much, like my family tells me I am! ok, well... see you around the blog!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: moonbeam on March 13, 2006, 08:47:33 PM
P.S.-  I know there have been several links here for the reunion scene but does anyone know where I can get a clip to download? Thanks! MoonBeam
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: sinne on March 13, 2006, 09:01:15 PM
P.S.-  I know there have been several links here for the reunion scene but does anyone know where I can get a clip to download? Thanks! MoonBeam

Here you go:    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_TZ2CF4Pno

It's my favorite scene too!  I'm sure I've watched it a couple of hundred times at least.  It's absolute perfection and the hottest onscreen kiss EVER!  In fact it was just voted the second sexiest scene ever in a British poll.  The spanking scene in Secretary (with Jake's sister Maggie and James Spader) was voted #1.

 
 
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: moonbeam on March 13, 2006, 09:14:23 PM
P.S.-  I know there have been several links here for the reunion scene but does anyone know where I can get a clip to download? Thanks! MoonBeam

Here you go:    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_TZ2CF4Pno

It's my favorite scene too!  I'm sure I've watched it a couple of hundred times at least.  It's absolute perfection and the hottest onscreen kiss EVER!  In fact it was just voted the second sexiest scene ever in a British poll.  The spanking scene in Secretary (with Jake's sister Maggie and James Spader) was voted #1.

 
 
Thanks! I have seen Secretary too... those Gyllenhaal's are just hot!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: rnmina on March 13, 2006, 09:27:30 PM
Quote
Thanks! I have seen Secretary too... those Gyllenhaal's are just hot!

Secretary is one of my  favorite movies. I can't wait to own BBM. I'll have to clear my appointments that week...no more than one that Tuesday plus the usual week's obligations, then off  to bed to enjoy this movie frame by frame. Later, I'll make screen caps of this scene...the way Ennis bounds down the steps, the  kiss with Ennis pushing Jack against the wall, Jack  standing dazed with passion as Ennis tucks in his shirt and heads upstairs,  and the motel scene are first on my screen capping list.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: moonbeam on March 13, 2006, 10:55:48 PM
Quote
Thanks! I have seen Secretary too... those Gyllenhaal's are just hot!

Secretary is one of my  favorite movies. I can't wait to own BBM. I'll have to clear my appointments that week...no more than one that Tuesday plus the usual week's obligations, then off  to bed to enjoy this movie frame by frame. Later, I'll make screen caps of this scene...the way Ennis bounds down the steps, the  kiss with Ennis pushing Jack against the wall, Jack  standing dazed with passion as Ennis tucks in his shirt and heads upstairs,  and the motel scene are first on my screen capping list.

I am with you on that one. I have been watching the reunion scene over and over and it GET BETTER every time. Most movie scenes, once watched a few times. bore me. But this one is really the hottest scene I have ever scene in a movie. I am so obsessed... it's nice to know I am not the only one though!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: iver on March 14, 2006, 12:11:38 AM
Quote
From the vibration of the floorboard on which they both stood Ennis could feel how hard Jack was shaking.
This is a beautiful passage from the book, in my opinion, not quite as powerful on the screen. Many of us know exactly how Jack felt at that moment. A phrase about how his heart was beating could have been added, but was not really necessary.
We know.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Brokeback_1 on March 14, 2006, 12:41:06 AM
Let me take a guess... Jack was shaking because in the 4 years since BBM he hasn't been with any other guy?


not with the one he really wants
I imagine he's so pumped with adrenaline from that kiss he can't control himself
Hi..this is my first post on this thread. I relate to this big time. It was when my first and only 'real' boyfriend started talking---the night we actually talked about what was going on---and I mean TALKED--after spending damned near 2 years ignoring each other's sexuality as if it would give us plague or bird flu. The scene in the movie where Jack is peeling potatos while Ennis strips to wash and Jack is refusing to so much as glance at him? Where he concentrates on peeling the damned spuds and swallows convulsively from the need to control himself while he is dying inside? THAT was us. For almost but not quite two f'ing years.
The night we started talking the two of us could barely control it, we were both dead white and shaking like leaves as it all started to first drip and then pour out of each of us. You see, we knew what was going to happen the moment we began to talk about it.
 
For us it was:
1-- that Knowledge
2-- the Shock of  actually starting [incredible shock]
3-- Fear, of what we were about to begin, where it would take us, of the consequences
4-- raw hunger for each other

 I only know what was up with US, nobody else.....but for us it was all 4 rolled into one big gordian knot.

A friend of ours saw us---this was on a NY streetcorner about 2am --and walked over to say hello. Helooked from one to the other and asked what was wrong: "You're both dead white and shaking like leaves, you look like two scared hungry virgins about to get humped by a pornstar" Then he apparently saw something else because his eyes popped and he just said "later!" and walked! ROFLMAO

He wasn't far off the mark, either. 'matter of fact he was dead on the money!

Unfortunately he also scared the shit out of us and derailed what was about to happen until the next night!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: HazelEyedRaven on March 14, 2006, 01:54:43 AM
Talk about the reunion here.

Has anyone else the gut-wrenching expression on Ennis' face in the motel when Jack asks "What are we gonna do now?"
It is a superb performance from Heath - because he so eloquently expresses the pain Ennis feels at being reunited but knowing they can't fix it...


Notice too the slight watering of Ennis' eyes when he says that but then he quickly closes his eyes, takes a drag, as if to choke his pain down.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: moonbeam on March 14, 2006, 04:08:25 AM
Not too off topic- is it true that the reunion kiss is off youtube? I cant find it and ive got an overwhelming urge to see it again (and again) Even though im seeing the movie for the 8th time on Sat...
I need a link badly for this obsession!

The reunion link is off youtube.   :'( :'( :'(  I also tried to rip that film clip and couldn't get it to work.  SO I dont' even have a bootleg to send out....

*sigh*  I'm gonna have to cough up the $5 for the matinee again....

  OK - not exactly legal (cough cough)...but for you guys I'd do it.  Found a clip, cropped and snipped...and I hope this works!

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_TZ2CF4Pno

  Rob (Err I don't wanna go to jail...I'm too old to enjoy it  :o)

Rob! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! for the clip! You have saved me from doing something drastic.. like moving into the movie theatre! Thanks again!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: bbmbliss on March 14, 2006, 05:20:12 AM
Not too off topic- is it true that the reunion kiss is off youtube? I cant find it and ive got an overwhelming urge to see it again (and again) Even though im seeing the movie for the 8th time on Sat...
I need a link badly for this obsession!

The reunion link is off youtube.   :'( :'( :'(  I also tried to rip that film clip and couldn't get it to work.  SO I dont' even have a bootleg to send out....

*sigh*  I'm gonna have to cough up the $5 for the matinee again....

  OK - not exactly legal (cough cough)...but for you guys I'd do it.  Found a clip, cropped and snipped...and I hope this works!

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_TZ2CF4Pno

  Rob (Err I don't wanna go to jail...I'm too old to enjoy it  :o)

THANKS SO SO MUCH.  This scene nevers grows old!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: LondonJakeFan on March 14, 2006, 01:38:18 PM
Tried to capture that moment when they (finally  :D) stop kissing at the reunion and Jack just wants to carry on but Ennis realises his wife is upstairs.

(http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/4149/vlcsnap1309875rh.png)

Anyone else think Jack/Jake looks really young in this scene? Love it to bits but something about how he is at the botton of the stairs says teenager to me, maybe its the puppy dog eyes!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: moonbeam on March 14, 2006, 03:32:48 PM
You know what I just caught about the reunion? When they are in the motel Ennis asks Jack something like "so the army didnt get you?" This might seem insignifigant to some but to me it says that Ennis remembers every word of the goodbye he said to Jack four years ago. How many of us remember what someone said to us four years ago.. or even four days ago? lol!  Anyway, you know that Ennis must have been replaying that goodbye scene over and over in his mind and maybe wishing it had ended some other way. awww.... :'(
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ellye on March 14, 2006, 04:07:13 PM
You know what I just caught about the reunion? When they are in the motel Ennis asks Jack something like "so the army didnt get you?" This might seem insignifigant to some but to me it says that Ennis remembers every word of the goodbye he said to Jack four years ago. How many of us remember what someone said to us four years ago.. or even four days ago? lol!  Anyway, you know that Ennis must have been replaying that goodbye scene over and over in his mind and maybe wishing it had ended some other way. awww.... :'(
That is EXACTLY what I thought when I first saw that scene!  ;D  Made me realise that everything Jack said before he left him was engraved on Ennis's heart.
And the line was shorter than what you put, by the way.  ;D  He just said, "Army didn't get ya?"

Also, the way Ennis acted when he saw Jack again, taking Jack and probably everyone watching by surprise! ... There's been speculation on why Ennis, so scared of causing suspicion, would act like that in full view of anyone passing ... and I think a clue to that is the first thing Ennis says in the motel room. I think he'd thought about Jack a lot over those 4 years ... the fact he remembered what Jack said as they parted is proof of that, I think .. and I don't think he ever expected to see him again, which was probably why thinking about Jack hung heavily on him.

Anyway, the first thing he says in that room was, "Didn't think I'd hear from you again .. thought you were still sore from that punch ..."  And if he really meant that, that he didn't expect to see him again, that explains a lot - to me - about his whole mood from when he gets that postcard after 4 years and knows he WILL see Jack again .... 'if he shows'. Again, this doubt as to whether he WILL see him ... and when he does, that smile on his face when he says 'Jack fuckin' Twist' just lights up his whole face. And I think when he actually had his hands on Jack - literally - he just couldn't contain himself and did what he did!

Incidentally, a lot of people refer to the way, when they draw back from the hug, Jack can't take his eyes of Ennis's mouth. True. But if you watch that scene in slow motion, one tiny jarring thing is the fact Ang uses two different takes! It's very clear if you DO watch it frame by frame. When they draw back from the hug, Jack is on the left of the screen, Ennis the right, and Jack's eyes are fixed on Ennis's mouth, he's not smiling ... but then in one frame the angle changes, so Jack's on the left and Ennis on the right, and though this is supposed to be one continous moment, when they do that, and change angles for the bit where Ennis pushes Jack back, Jack wasn't staring at Ennis's mouth, he was just smiling at him. It's very obviously a different take, which if you watch in slow motion looks a bit odd, not to see Jack staring at Ennis in that same way. But it's a little niggle and takes nothing away from one of my favourite scenes!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: sinne on March 14, 2006, 06:19:49 PM
You know what I just caught about the reunion? When they are in the motel Ennis asks Jack something like "so the army didnt get you?" This might seem insignifigant to some but to me it says that Ennis remembers every word of the goodbye he said to Jack four years ago. How many of us remember what someone said to us four years ago.. or even four days ago? lol!  Anyway, you know that Ennis must have been replaying that goodbye scene over and over in his mind and maybe wishing it had ended some other way. awww.... :'(

Wow - Just when I thought there wasn't one more thing anyone could tell me about this scene but you're right.  Ennis had obviously replayed every word of their good-bye four years ago and is continuing the conversation as if no time had passed at all.  Beautifully written and beautifully acted.  This movie is ABSOLUTE PERFECTION!!!  Thanks...
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Rob. on March 14, 2006, 06:41:15 PM
You know what I just caught about the reunion? When they are in the motel Ennis asks Jack something like "so the army didnt get you?" This might seem insignifigant to some but to me it says that Ennis remembers every word of the goodbye he said to Jack four years ago. How many of us remember what someone said to us four years ago.. or even four days ago? lol!  Anyway, you know that Ennis must have been replaying that goodbye scene over and over in his mind and maybe wishing it had ended some other way. awww.... :'(

  The book plays that more than the movie does (in the book Annie states the reunion was the pivotal scene but Ang wanted to move it out to their last scene) Probably why in the book we get the quote from Ennis "....Took me about a year a figure out I shouldn't a let you outa my sights"

  If anything - I'd have to guess Ennis was obsessed :)!

  Rob
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Dal on March 14, 2006, 07:00:28 PM
You know what I just caught about the reunion? When they are in the motel Ennis asks Jack something like "so the army didnt get you?" This might seem insignifigant to some but to me it says that Ennis remembers every word of the goodbye he said to Jack four years ago. How many of us remember what someone said to us four years ago.. or even four days ago? lol!  Anyway, you know that Ennis must have been replaying that goodbye scene over and over in his mind and maybe wishing it had ended some other way. awww.... :'(

So right moonbeam.  Every once in a while I hear this theory "Ennis would have been perfectly OK and happy all his life  w/ Alma and the kids, if Jack had not sent that first card" blah blah.... not only from Gene Shalit but even here sometimes.  But no way, right?!!  He says "Army didn't getchya?"   Ennis has been goin' over every word for FOUR YEARS!! 

Dal
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: moonbeam on March 14, 2006, 07:17:20 PM
You know what I just caught about the reunion? When they are in the motel Ennis asks Jack something like "so the army didnt get you?" This might seem insignifigant to some but to me it says that Ennis remembers every word of the goodbye he said to Jack four years ago. How many of us remember what someone said to us four years ago.. or even four days ago? lol!  Anyway, you know that Ennis must have been replaying that goodbye scene over and over in his mind and maybe wishing it had ended some other way. awww.... :'(

So right moonbeam.  Every once in a while I hear this theory "Ennis would have been perfectly OK and happy all his life  w/ Alma and the kids, if Jack had not sent that first card" blah blah.... not only from Gene Shalit but even here sometimes.  But no way, right?!!  He says "Army didn't getchya?"   Ennis has been goin' over every word for FOUR YEARS!! 

Dal

I agree! What I always tell myself is that, when Ennis is working on the highway crew and all those other boring jobs and listening to his coworkers chatter on, he is really reliving every moment of his summer on Brokeback and his goodbye to Jack.  And when you find the love of your life... you don't forget them and move on. I think Ennis tried with Alma, but he was really not living.. only 'exsisting' until the moment she said "Do you know someone named Jack?"
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: HazelEyedRaven on March 14, 2006, 11:04:37 PM
You know what I just caught about the reunion? When they are in the motel Ennis asks Jack something like "so the army didnt get you?" This might seem insignifigant to some but to me it says that Ennis remembers every word of the goodbye he said to Jack four years ago. How many of us remember what someone said to us four years ago.. or even four days ago? lol!  Anyway, you know that Ennis must have been replaying that goodbye scene over and over in his mind and maybe wishing it had ended some other way. awww.... :'(

I never caught that!  Just think....Ennis could have thought Jack was dead (Vietnam) all those years.  That adds a whole new twist to this scene and why it's so important and why Ennis has such a STRONG reaction when he sees Jack.  Good catch!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Jaysmommy on March 14, 2006, 11:10:47 PM
You know what I just caught about the reunion? When they are in the motel Ennis asks Jack something like "so the army didnt get you?" This might seem insignifigant to some but to me it says that Ennis remembers every word of the goodbye he said to Jack four years ago. How many of us remember what someone said to us four years ago.. or even four days ago? lol!  Anyway, you know that Ennis must have been replaying that goodbye scene over and over in his mind and maybe wishing it had ended some other way. awww.... :'(

OMG, I never thought about that! Great observation! It's amazing the new things to be discovered with every viewing....it just never gets old!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: peteinportland on March 15, 2006, 12:12:32 AM
You know what I just caught about the reunion? When they are in the motel Ennis asks Jack something like "so the army didnt get you?" This might seem insignifigant to some but to me it says that Ennis remembers every word of the goodbye he said to Jack four years ago. How many of us remember what someone said to us four years ago.. or even four days ago? lol!  Anyway, you know that Ennis must have been replaying that goodbye scene over and over in his mind and maybe wishing it had ended some other way. awww.... :'(
That is EXACTLY what I thought when I first saw that scene!  ;D  Made me realise that everything Jack said before he left him was engraved on Ennis's heart.
And the line was shorter than what you put, by the way.  ;D  He just said, "Army didn't get ya?"

Also, the way Ennis acted when he saw Jack again, taking Jack and probably everyone watching by surprise! ... There's been speculation on why Ennis, so scared of causing suspicion, would act like that in full view of anyone passing ... and I think a clue to that is the first thing Ennis says in the motel room. I think he'd thought about Jack a lot over those 4 years ... the fact he remembered what Jack said as they parted is proof of that, I think .. and I don't think he ever expected to see him again, which was probably why thinking about Jack hung heavily on him.

Anyway, the first thing he says in that room was, "Didn't think I'd hear from you again .. thought you were still sore from that punch ..."  And if he really meant that, that he didn't expect to see him again, that explains a lot - to me - about his whole mood from when he gets that postcard after 4 years and knows he WILL see Jack again .... 'if he shows'. Again, this doubt as to whether he WILL see him ... and when he does, that smile on his face when he says 'Jack fuckin' Twist' just lights up his whole face. And I think when he actually had his hands on Jack - literally - he just couldn't contain himself and did what he did!

This is the first set of posts that made me teary-eyed in a couple of weeks. Poor Ennis. He thought he drove Jack away, and then he has to deny Jack something Ennis wants very much to give to him ("some sweet life"). It's heartbreaking.

You know, the second time we see them fight, Ennis may think he drove Jack away again, but this time there is no redemption. There is no reunion scene except for the shirts in the closet.

Pete
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: danac on March 15, 2006, 07:59:38 AM
You know what I just caught about the reunion? When they are in the motel Ennis asks Jack something like "so the army didnt get you?" This might seem insignifigant to some but to me it says that Ennis remembers every word of the goodbye he said to Jack four years ago. How many of us remember what someone said to us four years ago.. or even four days ago? lol!  Anyway, you know that Ennis must have been replaying that goodbye scene over and over in his mind and maybe wishing it had ended some other way. awww.... :'(

There must be alot of us who play these scenes over and over- scanning for any little nuance - but this is something I hadn't thought of before!
You're right. Ennis remembered every word of the goodbye...when he asks if the "army didn't get ya?", it seems to me that when Jack says no, there's something in Ennis' face and eyes that is wondering why it took four years ?
Anyone else see that?
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: aceygirl on March 15, 2006, 11:03:18 AM
You know what I just caught about the reunion? When they are in the motel Ennis asks Jack something like "so the army didnt get you?" This might seem insignifigant to some but to me it says that Ennis remembers every word of the goodbye he said to Jack four years ago. How many of us remember what someone said to us four years ago.. or even four days ago? lol!  Anyway, you know that Ennis must have been replaying that goodbye scene over and over in his mind and maybe wishing it had ended some other way. awww.... :'(

There must be alot of us who play these scenes over and over- scanning for any little nuance - but this is something I hadn't thought of before!
You're right. Ennis remembered every word of the goodbye...when he asks if the "army didn't get ya?", it seems to me that when Jack says no, there's something in Ennis' face and eyes that is wondering why it took four years ?
Anyone else see that?


It's very possible. The book makes it very clear that Ennis was wondering about the four years of silence. "I didn't know where in the HELL you was," said Ennis. "Four years. I about give up on you."

Later when Jack asks, "How much is once in a while? Ever Four fuckin years?" Ennis "forbears to ask whose fault that was."

A side note: There's a few of us who believe that Ennis might have been reasonably happy with Alma if he'd never met Jack in the first place--NOT that he would be happy with her (or anyone else) once The Postcard was sent.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: moonbeam on March 15, 2006, 03:12:42 PM
Ok, so I am obsessed with the reunion scene.. I admit it!  :) Anyway, I was watching it for the miilienth time today and you know what was so cute? Just before Ennis runs out the door, we see Jack getting out of his truck, walking towards the stairs slowly, hands in his pockets and head down. Then Ennis runs out and yells "Jack F*&#$" Twist!" and we see him start smiling and almost running towards the stairs, arms open and head up. He must have been so nervous. If I were him I would have been thinking that I would go to Ennis's and knock on the door and meet his wife and kids and maybe stay for dinner... he had no idea that Ennis was watching for him or even that he wanted to carry on their relationship. (that "you bet" postcard was not a love letter by any means!)  Imagine how his heart must have been pounding as he got closer and closer to Riverton. I also think of Ennis. Who knows how long it was between the time he recieved the postcard and Jack's arrival? He probably couldn't sleep well the night before and maybe got up early just in case Jack was early and you can tell he combed his hair so neatly... too cute. Even though they did not get their  ultimate 'happily ever after', I like to think that, in this moment, they got more than most people ever have . It was a brief 'happily ever after'. 
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: bernadette on March 15, 2006, 04:50:46 PM
You know what I just caught about the reunion? When they are in the motel Ennis asks Jack something like "so the army didnt get you?" This might seem insignifigant to some but to me it says that Ennis remembers every word of the goodbye he said to Jack four years ago. How many of us remember what someone said to us four years ago.. or even four days ago? lol!  Anyway, you know that Ennis must have been replaying that goodbye scene over and over in his mind and maybe wishing it had ended some other way. awww.... :'(

There must be alot of us who play these scenes over and over- scanning for any little nuance - but this is something I hadn't thought of before!
You're right. Ennis remembered every word of the goodbye...when he asks if the "army didn't get ya?", it seems to me that when Jack says no, there's something in Ennis' face and eyes that is wondering why it took four years ?
Anyone else see that?


It's very possible. The book makes it very clear that Ennis was wondering about the four years of silence. "I didn't know where in the HELL you was," said Ennis. "Four years. I about give up on you."

Later when Jack asks, "How much is once in a while? Ever Four fuckin years?" Ennis "forbears to ask whose fault that was."

A side note: There's a few of us who believe that Ennis might have been reasonably happy with Alma if he'd never met Jack in the first place--NOT that he would be happy with her (or anyone else) once The Postcard was sent.


Remeber too he says in the book - something about not being interested in men, liking it with girls allright, then 'but I wrung it out 100 times think'n about you' My god can you imagine!? At first I thought he was referring to crying, but then I realized he had somthin else on his mind. I hadn't noticed the comment in the movie either about the army. THanks Moonbeam it really does bring a greater depth of understanding to how much Ennis thought about Jack, all along, from that first goodbye.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Goldfish on March 15, 2006, 07:22:44 PM


This is the first set of posts that made me teary-eyed in a couple of weeks. Poor Ennis. He thought he drove Jack away, and then he has to deny Jack something Ennis wants very much to give to him ("some sweet life"). It's heartbreaking.

You know, the second time we see them fight, Ennis may think he drove Jack away again, but this time there is no redemption. There is no reunion scene except for the shirts in the closet.

Pete
Quote
What you say is so true, the second time round there is no redemption and no reunion, just the shirts. So devastating I can hardly bear it.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: playitagain on March 15, 2006, 09:04:33 PM
In my latest viewing of the Reunion Scene, I think I caught something I had not heard and understood before.  I've been taken with Jacks immediate hunger for Ennis' mouth, he's halfway to heaven already once they have embraced - did I hear Ennis say "alright" before trotting him to the wall? and was this "alright" in agreement to Jacks hunger.  As in yes, this is what you want, I'll give it to you because I want it also. 

I have never heard E say "later" before they go up to Alma; always "hey". 

Also this time I was so aware of the sounds of Alma's breathing as well as that of the men.  And her little whimper of misery.
Annie speaks in the story of her "misery voice" = this is caught in the whimper.




Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: jenjo on March 15, 2006, 09:43:47 PM
Quote
Even though they did not get their  ultimate 'happily ever after', I like to think that, in this moment, they got more than most people ever have . It was a brief 'happily ever after'

That's so perceptive! Doesn't change the fact that I set a new personal best for crying at the movies, but they really were so euphoric when they were together, it's almost enough to bring some comfort at the end.

In the book, Ennis was much more forthcoming with his feelings for Jack during the reunion scene, as others have already noted. It would have been nice to have just one tiny one of them in the movie, like Ennis telling Jack at the motel that it took him  year to realize that he never should have let Jack out of his sight. (Or, after Jack talks about how busted up he was from rodeo and the army didn't get him, Ennis says "Sure as hell seem in one piece to me." That sly dog!)  I can imagine a statement like that (or any of the others in the book) being something that Jack would feed on whenever he needed a lift. Clearly Ennis had relived their goodbye every day and wondered if he'd ever see the man he loved so much again. Or had he blown it? (We've all been there, right, beating ourselves up over not saying something or doing something differently?) I imagine Jack relived that passionate reunion every day of his life. For all the people who have posted with their doubts that Jack knew how Ennis felt about him, I present exhibit A! Jack knew that for Ennis to take that kind of risk, to be so completely out of control, that he meant "I love you. I need you. I've missed you. And I can't WAIT to get you into bed!"

On a side note, and perhaps this isn't quite the right thread, but my husband went with me twice (I know, what a guy!) to see the movie. He is vision impaired to the point that the screen is really just a blur, but he loves movies. After the first time, he said "You know, even without being able to see their faces and their expressions, the absolute sheer joy in their voices when they met up said everything that needed to be said about how much they loved each other. Heath and Jake deserve Oscars for being able to pull that off so well that a blind man could pick up on it." (I know, I can't even go there. We wuz robbed.)

Anyway, I thought he made a good point about how beautifully done this movie was done. BTW, his favorite scene is when Jack says "Tell you what - sometimes I miss you so much i can hardly stand it." Joey says that just kicks him in the gut.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: HazelEyedRaven on March 15, 2006, 10:46:00 PM
Jake does such an outstanding job in this scene.  The look of surprise.  The look of sheer hunger.  The longing right before he slams Ennis up against the wall.  The way he keeps looking at Ennis' mouth and trying to kiss him as Ennis is trying to pull apart.  He just keeps pawing and pulling at him, trying to nuzzle his way back in.
Just beautiful. 

I read somewhere that Lee told them that if they didn't believe in the scene, neither would the audience.  They were fully present in that moment.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: danac on March 16, 2006, 05:41:56 AM
Ok, so I am obsessed with the reunion scene.. I admit it!  :) Anyway, I was watching it for the miilienth time today and you know what was so cute? Just before Ennis runs out the door, we see Jack getting out of his truck, walking towards the stairs slowly, hands in his pockets and head down. Then Ennis runs out and yells "Jack F*&#$" Twist!" and we see him start smiling and almost running towards the stairs, arms open and head up. He must have been so nervous. If I were him I would have been thinking that I would go to Ennis's and knock on the door and meet his wife and kids and maybe stay for dinner... he had no idea that Ennis was watching for him or even that he wanted to carry on their relationship. (that "you bet" postcard was not a love letter by any means!)  Imagine how his heart must have been pounding as he got closer and closer to Riverton. I also think of Ennis. Who knows how long it was between the time he recieved the postcard and Jack's arrival? He probably couldn't sleep well the night before and maybe got up early just in case Jack was early and you can tell he combed his hair so neatly... too cute. Even though they did not get their  ultimate 'happily ever after', I like to think that, in this moment, they got more than most people ever have . It was a brief 'happily ever after'. 

THAT'S VERY NICELY PUT, MOONBEAM.
I, TOO, HAVE PLAYED THIS SCENE ABOUT A GAZILLION TIMES AND LOVE EVERY MOMENT. ESPECIALLY, FROM THE ACTOR'S CRAFT POV, IN THE KISS WHEN HEATH'S THUMB RUBS ACROSS JAKES'S BROW! OMIGOD. AND, LATER, WHEN HE BRUSHES JAKE'S BROW WITH HIS CHEEK! HOLY COW!!!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: aevkc on March 16, 2006, 09:50:58 AM


I read somewhere that Lee told them that if they didn't believe in the scene, neither would the audience.  They were fully present in that moment.

I also read that this is the first scene filmed between Jake and Heath.  Ang wanted it filmed first because he believed it was the lynchpin for their entire relationship and he said that if by the first day of filming Jake and Heath didn't know Jack and Ennis well enough to film this scene then the movie wouldn't work.  Obviously they nailed it! 
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: HazelEyedRaven on March 16, 2006, 07:06:35 PM


I read somewhere that Lee told them that if they didn't believe in the scene, neither would the audience.  They were fully present in that moment.

I also read that this is the first scene filmed between Jake and Heath.  Ang wanted it filmed first because he believed it was the lynchpin for their entire relationship and he said that if by the first day of filming Jake and Heath didn't know Jack and Ennis well enough to film this scene then the movie wouldn't work.  Obviously they nailed it! 

Ditto on that.  They nailed it.  It is defining of the movie.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: vadour on March 16, 2006, 07:44:16 PM
Ok, so I am obsessed with the reunion scene.. I admit it!  :) Anyway, I was watching it for the miilienth time today and you know what was so cute? Just before Ennis runs out the door, we see Jack getting out of his truck, walking towards the stairs slowly, hands in his pockets and head down. Then Ennis runs out and yells "Jack F*&#$" Twist!" and we see him start smiling and almost running towards the stairs, arms open and head up. He must have been so nervous. If I were him I would have been thinking that I would go to Ennis's and knock on the door and meet his wife and kids and maybe stay for dinner... he had no idea that Ennis was watching for him or even that he wanted to carry on their relationship. (that "you bet" postcard was not a love letter by any means!)  Imagine how his heart must have been pounding as he got closer and closer to Riverton. I also think of Ennis. Who knows how long it was between the time he recieved the postcard and Jack's arrival? He probably couldn't sleep well the night before and maybe got up early just in case Jack was early and you can tell he combed his hair so neatly... too cute. Even though they did not get their  ultimate 'happily ever after', I like to think that, in this moment, they got more than most people ever have . It was a brief 'happily ever after'. 

THAT'S VERY NICELY PUT, MOONBEAM.
I, TOO, HAVE PLAYED THIS SCENE ABOUT A GAZILLION TIMES AND LOVE EVERY MOMENT. ESPECIALLY, FROM THE ACTOR'S CRAFT POV, IN THE KISS WHEN HEATH'S THUMB RUBS ACROSS JAKES'S BROW! OMIGOD. AND, LATER, WHEN HE BRUSHES JAKE'S BROW WITH HIS CHEEK! HOLY COW!!!


Didja notice how, after he rubbed his thumb across his brow, he moved his hand back to caress his ear? All these little details! Someone on these forums described that scene as "full-bore Ennis".... imagine the heat of the passion later in the motel room?

*sound of heavy breathing and sweat dripping on keyboard*
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: aevkc on March 16, 2006, 08:08:57 PM

Didja notice how, after he rubbed his thumb across his brow, he moved his hand back to caress his ear? All these little details! Someone on these forums described that scene as "full-bore Ennis".... imagine the heat of the passion later in the motel room?

*sound of heavy breathing and sweat dripping on keyboard*
Quote

I know!  I want to make my husband go to acting class so he can BE Ennis in that scene.  Yowza!  :D
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: mwp2paris on March 16, 2006, 08:26:26 PM
Four years of pent up love and longing...though to Ennis it was probably characterized as something else; the teapot ready to boil over as he flips the lighter open and closed; the beginnings of sadness, that perhaps what he thought would happen is not to be; then the sound of the approaching truck; that look he gives has he gazes out of the window at his other half; the hands banging on the railing at the top of the stairs and that ear-to-ear grin of delight and anticipation; the "Jack Fuck'n Twist" declaration; Jack, his thumbs in his belt, looking a bit unsure of what to expect, but none the less hopeful; then the scramble down, the furtive look, the pulling into what was thought to be hidden sactuary...and then the unleashing of it all...

And the whispered "later" from Ennis as they collect themselves and head up the stairs.

A gem among gems in this diamond of a movie.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Fafner on March 16, 2006, 10:06:10 PM
I have been wondering how they were able to get together in the motel in Riverton.  Riverton was a small town, and I, myself, have sometimes wanted to 'get a room' in a motel, but I wouldn't dare in a town as small as Riverton. I have not been able to find any discussion about this anywhere.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: David G on March 16, 2006, 10:12:29 PM
I have been wondering how they were able to get together in the motel in Riverton.  Riverton was a small town, and I, myself, have sometimes wanted to 'get a room' in a motel, but I wouldn't dare in a town as small as Riverton. I have not been able to find any discussion about this anywhere.

Seems easy enough to me.

All you have to do is drop off one guy out of the range of the motel. The other guy registers. After you have the room, signal the other guy to come to the room.

If you're careful and discreet, I can see anyone pull it off.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: moonbeam on March 16, 2006, 10:47:31 PM
Ok, so I am obsessed with the reunion scene.. I admit it!  :) Anyway, I was watching it for the miilienth time today and you know what was so cute? Just before Ennis runs out the door, we see Jack getting out of his truck, walking towards the stairs slowly, hands in his pockets and head down. Then Ennis runs out and yells "Jack F*&#$" Twist!" and we see him start smiling and almost running towards the stairs, arms open and head up. He must have been so nervous. If I were him I would have been thinking that I would go to Ennis's and knock on the door and meet his wife and kids and maybe stay for dinner... he had no idea that Ennis was watching for him or even that he wanted to carry on their relationship. (that "you bet" postcard was not a love letter by any means!)  Imagine how his heart must have been pounding as he got closer and closer to Riverton. I also think of Ennis. Who knows how long it was between the time he recieved the postcard and Jack's arrival? He probably couldn't sleep well the night before and maybe got up early just in case Jack was early and you can tell he combed his hair so neatly... too cute. Even though they did not get their  ultimate 'happily ever after', I like to think that, in this moment, they got more than most people ever have . It was a brief 'happily ever after'. 

THAT'S VERY NICELY PUT, MOONBEAM.
I, TOO, HAVE PLAYED THIS SCENE ABOUT A GAZILLION TIMES AND LOVE EVERY MOMENT. ESPECIALLY, FROM THE ACTOR'S CRAFT POV, IN THE KISS WHEN HEATH'S THUMB RUBS ACROSS JAKES'S BROW! OMIGOD. AND, LATER, WHEN HE BRUSHES JAKE'S BROW WITH HIS CHEEK! HOLY COW!!!


Didja notice how, after he rubbed his thumb across his brow, he moved his hand back to caress his ear? All these little details! Someone on these forums described that scene as "full-bore Ennis".... imagine the heat of the passion later in the motel room?

*sound of heavy breathing and sweat dripping on keyboard*

I have said it before and I will say it again... this is the hottest scene I have ever seen in a movie... and to think that I used to think that Titanic was romantic (not that I don't still love it).. it just seems like such a long time since I have seen such an incredible portaryal of love in a film. I would rather watch the reunion scene than any full scale holloywood love scene anyday... but that is me, and I am a little obsessed!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: HazelEyedRaven on March 17, 2006, 12:29:05 AM
ALRIGHT!  Now I gotta go watch it again!  It's driving me crazy!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: panorama on March 17, 2006, 12:36:08 AM

For all the people who have posted with their doubts that Jack knew how Ennis felt about him, I present exhibit A! Jack knew that for Ennis to take that kind of risk, to be so completely out of control, that he meant "I love you. I need you. I've missed you. And I can't WAIT to get you into bed!"


I totally agree! Ennis was a very closed man, but in this scene he totally lets go and initiates the kiss in the middle of the street! It's very risky and clearly a very strong message. The other scene that shows Ennis's love is on Brokeback when he hugs Jack from behind, hums & rocks him. That scene always makes my heart pound. I think there are many messages like this which show his love.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: fishinbuddy on March 17, 2006, 01:04:10 AM
Quote
I can SO relate to Jack trembling all over.  Four months after I met my first BF (and boy, was I head over heels) -  he went to Europe for 8 weeks - this trip had been in the works before we met and he couldn't back out and I couldnt' afford the time or money to go with him. When he finally returned and I looked out the window & saw him walking towards my door I started shaking and no way could I control it.  He thought it was endearing and I was glad, because I just couldn't stop trembling for the longest time.

Yes, with my Ennis, whenever we were in the same room, I couldn't stop sweating and trembling - the whole time I had him, both times, six years apart. Every single time we were in the same room, I couldn't stop. Damn his hide, where IS that man? Still waiting for round 3, seventeen years later.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ellye on March 17, 2006, 05:09:57 AM
In my latest viewing of the Reunion Scene, I think I caught something I had not heard and understood before.  I've been taken with Jacks immediate hunger for Ennis' mouth, he's halfway to heaven already once they have embraced - did I hear Ennis say "alright" before trotting him to the wall? and was this "alright" in agreement to Jacks hunger.  As in yes, this is what you want, I'll give it to you because I want it also. 

I have never heard E say "later" before they go up to Alma; always "hey". 

Also this time I was so aware of the sounds of Alma's breathing as well as that of the men.  And her little whimper of misery.
Annie speaks in the story of her "misery voice" = this is caught in the whimper.


After the initial embrace, when Jack's eyes are focused on Ennis's mouth, Ennis looks round, grabs hold of Jack and says "C'm'ere" as he starts to back him up to the wall.

And I definitely hear 'later' I also .. thanks to a clip on youtube that's very loud, hear Ennis say something before he tears himself away from Jack to go back up the stairs. The music hides what he says clearly, but it sounds something like "come here now" Which to me makes sense. He's telling Jack they'll continue this later but in the meantime they have to pull themselves together and go and speak to Alma!  ;D
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: huntinbuddy on March 17, 2006, 10:40:37 AM
Well, BBM left my community last night after a two month run. How sweet that time was.  Perhaps I can get on with my life...at least until the DVD is released, then suspect the cycle will start over.  I don't know if this has been mentioned in this thread or perhaps in another area where parallels are examined, but noticed this on my last viewing.  When Ennis and Jack are at the motel, Jack asks, "what are we gonna do now?" and Ennis replies that makin a living is about all he has time for now, etc.

If you recall, after the storm up on the mountain, and the sheep are mixed with another herd, it is Ennis who asks "What are we gonna do now, huh?" and it is Jack this time that answers, get on in there and untangle those Chiliean sheep from ours.

There as just so many fine, well thought out points to this movie that will put it on the same level of like the Wizard of Oz 50 years from now.  Just my prediction.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: peteinportland on March 17, 2006, 09:35:27 PM
I deleted several posts that were off topic and/or meant to be rude to other posters.

Please respect one another and please stay on topic!

You may PM one another with your thoughts rather than share them on the thread. That is the best course of action.

Thank you!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: lessa on March 17, 2006, 09:56:25 PM
I think I should change my sceen name to "dollar short, day late" but... I ain't been close enough to someone that I'm hot-on for, oh, a year or so ( read: closer to 2 years) but does it not seem like these two, after what must add up to mere minutes (somewhere less than the five minutes range) are way, way, way, way, WAY beyond the level of het-up-ness than even the most hot-to-go of us exhibit?

By which I mean to say/ask: do they not sound, in terms of passionate vocalization, as if they are practically on the verge of f**k**ng, while fully clothed and in semi-full view of the street and mere minutes after they are reuniited? Am I crazy or sadly possessed of a low sex drive to think that this  level of close-to-the-goal-of-the-act vocalization is beyond what many of us hope for in a day to day romantic relationship???

This probably makes no sense; all I mean to say is, the reunion scene is hot beyond things you can quantify.

Oh and to ask if everyone thinks I'm crazy...

~lessa
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: moonbeam on March 17, 2006, 10:17:49 PM
I hear what you are saying, Leesa. However, this is Jack and Ennis and there is no precedent set for degree of hotness that their exchanges can achieve!  :) They hold the official Olympic title for 'hottest maker outers ever'.. (I swear with every post I mention the word 'hot'... I am regressing to my junior high years!)
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Rob. on March 17, 2006, 10:18:23 PM
I think I should change my sceen name to "dollar short, day late" but... I ain't been close enough to someone that I'm hot-on for, oh, a year or so ( read: closer to 2 years) but does it not seem like these two, after what must add up to mere minutes (somewhere less than the five minutes range) are way, way, way, way, WAY beyond the level of het-up-ness than even the most hot-to-go of us exhibit?

By which I mean to say/ask: do they not sound, in terms of passionate vocalization, as if they are practically on the verge of f**k**ng, while fully clothed and in semi-full view of the street and mere minutes after they are reuniited? Am I crazy or sadly possessed of a low sex drive to think that this  level of close-to-the-goal-of-the-act vocalization is beyond what many of us hope for in a day to day romantic relationship???

This probably makes no sense; all I mean to say is, the reunion scene is hot beyond things you can quantify.

Oh and to ask if everyone thinks I'm crazy...

~lessa

  One must remember that this was no 'day to day romantic relationship' :)!  Unfortunately - not everyone is going to experience a love like that (some aren't even capable).

  My feeling is that up until they actually saw each other again - neither one really knew (Or perhaps remembered?) the depths of their feelings.  Four years is a long time - and time has the ability to mute even the strongest of emotions.  That entire summer came rushing back in an instant though - like a dam bursting.  I've only really ever felt that way about one person, and for a year we only saw each other on weekends.  It was....quite...similar  ;)

  Rob
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: moonbeam on March 17, 2006, 10:39:40 PM


I.  I've only really ever felt that way about one person, and for a year we only saw each other on weekends.  It was....quite...similar  ;)

  Rob
Quote

LUCKY!!!!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: City Girl on March 17, 2006, 11:04:04 PM
After the initial embrace, when Jack's eyes are focused on Ennis's mouth, Ennis looks round, grabs hold of Jack and says "C'm'ere" as he starts to back him up to the wall.

And I definitely hear 'later' I also .. thanks to a clip on youtube that's very loud, hear Ennis say something before he tears himself away from Jack to go back up the stairs. The music hides what he says clearly,
Quote

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU FOR THE CLIP.  On continuous rotation here. 

IMHO, even without the c'm'ere, the hey, the later, this will still go down in history as the single best kiss in cinematic history (with a close second abet different kind of kiss being the SNIT) but, with the inclusion of those words it goes out of the stratosphere.  Is it pathetic for me to say I’d give up 10 years of my life for that moment in real time?

Gad, I use to have a life... hmmm, actually, no I didn't, I redlined it all the way.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Jaysmommy on March 17, 2006, 11:12:42 PM
[
I have said it before and I will say it again... this is the hottest scene I have ever seen in a movie

moonbeam, I couldn't agree more...I have never been so completely overwhelmed by a love scene...I wish I could burn the scene into the insides of my eyelids and play it there on a continuous loop....Jake and Heath were COMPLETELY in the moment when they filmed this scene....we believe their passion - totally. They are both amazing actors...
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: fishinbuddy on March 18, 2006, 12:31:25 AM
Quote
By which I mean to say/ask: do they not sound, in terms of passionate vocalization, as if they are practically on the verge of f**k**ng, while fully clothed and in semi-full view of the street and mere minutes after they are reuniited? Am I crazy or sadly possessed of a low sex drive to think that this  level of close-to-the-goal-of-the-act vocalization is beyond what many of us hope for in a day to day romantic relationship???

This probably makes no sense; all I mean to say is, the reunion scene is hot beyond things you can quantify.

Oh and to ask if everyone thinks I'm crazy...

Answering your questions in reverse order: no, you're not crazy...well, you may be, but not for thinking what you posted above!

And secondly, no, it's not beyond what I hope for; having experienced just the same kind of thing more than once before, it's what I REQUIRE from a relationship. I want passion like that, or it's "don't bother me, boy!"
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: HazelEyedRaven on March 18, 2006, 01:54:13 AM

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU FOR THE CLIP.  On continuous rotation here. 


Can someone give me the link to the youtube site that has this kiss audio loud enough to hear the 'later'?  I still haven't been able to hear it on the other sites I found the reunion kiss scene.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Brokeback_1 on March 18, 2006, 02:14:48 AM
It can get passionate like that when you ignore it for a long time like we did, your sexual attraction towards one another..........I was unexpectedly shoved  up against a living room wall with my arms pinned above my head and the dumbf&*$s lips and face all over mine touching it everywhere while his body was plastered on min.... shaking like a leaf in the wind while he was eating me alive and neither of us could stop, even when he let go of my hands to touch my head all over, lips, eyes, everything...I could barely control junior in my pants....it was that hot folks.

He was spontaneously trying to prove the point I wouldn't admit to, namely that HE was on top. The SOB out alpha'd me and I wouldn't admit it. BAH

 But then if I had he wouldn't have thrown me against a wall.

Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: mwp2paris on March 18, 2006, 04:30:57 AM
I cannot get the look that Ennis gives when he looks out the window and sees that his other half has arrived...I don't know what Heath was thinking, but he nailed that scene and it is absolutely haunting...a second of time, but a life of feeling reflected in the eyes.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: HazelEyedRaven on March 18, 2006, 11:31:58 AM

I cannot get the look that Ennis gives when he looks out the window and sees that his other half has arrived...I don't know what Heath was thinking, but he nailed that scene and it is absolutely haunting...a second of time, but a life of feeling reflected in the eyes.


That whole scene, I'm sitting there with him, anxious, nervous, uncertain.  The first time I saw the movie, my heart was racing, especially after Ennis says, "...if he shows," then they cut to him sitting down with his eyes closed, clearly near dinnertime. He's been waiting all day, the build up mounting.  Will Ennis be disappointed?  Will he be relieved?  How will it go with Jack?  How will he react?  I think most of us have been there and understand Ennis' anxiousness. 

Then he arrives and that second of time with a lifetime of meaning flashes across his face.  Joy, relief, anticipation.  As the book says, Ennis was scalded by a hot jolt when he saw Jack.  From then on, it was all instinct.  No fear, no reasoning to stop him.  He gave in to everything he was feeling even though he didn't know what it was or understood it.  He let go for just the slightest of moments.  Unrestrained.  It's the first time since leaving BBM that he is free.

At that moment, I am so happy for both of them.  I'm shouting, "YEAH!" in my heart.

Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: moonbeam on March 18, 2006, 12:15:48 PM
 He gave in to everything he was feeling even though he didn't know what it was or understood it.  He let go for just the slightest of moments.  Unrestrained.  It's the first time since leaving BBM that he is free.

At that moment, I am so happy for both of them.  I'm shouting, "YEAH!" in my heart.


Quote

awww... me too! I think you described so perfectly how we all feel watching this moment.  :)
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: bbmx4 on March 18, 2006, 12:18:59 PM
"a second of time, but a life of feeling reflected in the eyes"
beautiful and evocative... like HazelEyedRaven's post...
great moments in the book and on screen...
they really were two halves.
it's something very inspiring esp. in the pervading shallowness of our times...
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: HazelEyedRaven on March 18, 2006, 12:30:56 PM
"They seized each other by the shoulders, hugged mightily, squeezing the breath out of each other, saying, son of a bitch, son of a bitch, then, and easily as the right key turns the lock tumblers, their mouths came together, and hard..."
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: moonbeam on March 18, 2006, 12:38:09 PM
ok, let me know if I am overanalyzing again.. because maybe I am.  :) But, I have been watching the reunion scene and when they are at the motel and Jack says that he 'redlined' it to get there and that he knew they were going to 'get into this again' and asks Ennis "what about you?".. I have been watching Ennis's face and it seems, by the way his mouth moves, up and down, almost smiling, that there is so much he wants to say... but all he can bring himself to say is "me, I don't know". I think that if Ennis had really answered that question he would have talked for hours... I also think he did not even know HOW to say the things he was thinking in that moment, as he has never really expressed emotion before. Did anyone else feel like there was so much he wanted to say, but couldn't?
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: stacp on March 18, 2006, 12:51:26 PM
ok, let me know if I am overanalyzing again.. because maybe I am.  :) But, I have been watching the reunion scene and when they are at the motel and Jack says that he 'redlined' it to get there and that he knew they were going to 'get into this again' and asks Ennis "what about you?".. I have been watching Ennis's face and it seems, by the way his mouth moves, up and down, almost smiling, that there is so much he wants to say... but all he can bring himself to say is "me, I don't know". I think that if Ennis had really answered that question he would have talked for hours... I also think he did not even know HOW to say the things he was thinking in that moment, as he has never really expressed emotion before. Did anyone else feel like there was so much he wanted to say, but couldn't?

Definitely!  In the short story, in fact, Ennis says a lot more.  I don't have the book in front of me, but I think he makes the "I wrang it out 100 times thinking of you" comment during the motel scene, as well as explaining to Jack that after their first summer on BBM, when he tried to puke in the alley, he finally figured out that he should have never let Jack get out of his sight.  I think by the post-coital look on Ennis' face in the motel scene, he was thinking these things, but in typical Ennis fashion (at least in the movie), he could neither articulate these feelings for Jack nor overcome the guilt and/or shame in feeling them.  I think the smile on Ennis' face when Jack says "what about you?" and the little nudge Ennis gives Jack's arm after Jack says "Ol' Brokeback got us good"  say a lot though.  Ennis, through physical means, is trying to express the joy he is feeling by being with Jack.  Of course, I would have loved to have heard Ennis say those things he said in the AP's story.  Wonder why Ang Lee and the screenwriters chose to leave them out? :-\  Maybe because on screen you can see Ennis' love through physical manifestations, while in the book, we rely on words to paint the picture?
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: David G on March 18, 2006, 12:59:33 PM
ok, let me know if I am overanalyzing again.. because maybe I am.  :) But, I have been watching the reunion scene and when they are at the motel ...

This is where the short story and the film are very different.

In the short story, Ennis is confessing his strong sexual feeling for Jack. But in the film, Ennis is very reluctant to admit to having feelings for Jack. When asked, he can only mumble a reply.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: HazelEyedRaven on March 18, 2006, 01:01:14 PM
ok, let me know if I am overanalyzing again.. because maybe I am.  :) But, I have been watching the reunion scene and when they are at the motel and Jack says that he 'redlined' it to get there and that he knew they were going to 'get into this again' and asks Ennis "what about you?".. I have been watching Ennis's face and it seems, by the way his mouth moves, up and down, almost smiling, that there is so much he wants to say... but all he can bring himself to say is "me, I don't know". I think that if Ennis had really answered that question he would have talked for hours... I also think he did not even know HOW to say the things he was thinking in that moment, as he has never really expressed emotion before. Did anyone else feel like there was so much he wanted to say, but couldn't?

In the book, there is a lot more conversation in the motel room.  And Ennis says a lot more like:

"I didn't know where in the hell you was," said Ennis. "Four years.  I about give up on you.  I figured you was sore about that punch."

Ennis pulled Jack's hand to his mouth, took a hit from the cigarette, exhaled. (not in movie)  "Sure as hell seem in one piece to me."(after Jack's description of bull-riding)

[later] "I like doin it with women, yeah, but Jesus H., ain't nothin like this."

"That summer," said Ennis.  "When we split up after we got paid out I had gut cramps so bad I pulled over and tried to puke, thought I ate somethin bad at that place in Dubois.  Took me about a year a figure out it was that I shouldn't a let you out of my sights.  Too late then by a long, long while."

But Dianna and Larry and Lee omit most of the conversation out, leaving it to Heath and Jake to say nonverbally what the story verbally states. 

In the movie, tho, Ennis' little smile when Jack asks him, "What about you?" is perfect.  But the greater beauty of this is the Jack doesn't have to pursue that questions any further.  He doesn't even need to see Ennis' face to know what he really means.  He KNOWS.  Just like he knew when Ennis jokes with him later about sending up a prayer of thanks about Jack not bringing that harmonica.  Jack knows what Ennis really means because he immediately follows with, "You know.  It could be like this, just like this.  Always."
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: aevkc on March 18, 2006, 08:01:36 PM
I just saw the movie for the 10th time the other day and I noticed something in the reunion scene that I'd never really picked up on before (and maybe it's already been discussed here 300 times!).  Anyway, at the very end of the scene when Ennis says he and Jack are going to go get a drink and Jack says good-bye to Alma, he stares right at her as he speaks and then continues to stare at her for a few seconds afterwards, but his gaze seems almost confrontational to me, almost as if he's marking his territory.  Up until that point he can hardly look at anyone, even Ennis, because he's so worked up.  He looks at the floor and then just gives quick glances to Alma and Ennis.  But that last look is longer and more pointed.  If someone is going to see it again soon, check it out, and let me know what you think.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: fishinbuddy on March 18, 2006, 09:26:36 PM
Quote
I just saw the movie for the 10th time the other day and I noticed something in the reunion scene that I'd never really picked up on before (and maybe it's already been discussed here 300 times!).  Anyway, at the very end of the scene when Ennis says he and Jack are going to go get a drink and Jack says good-bye to Alma, he stares right at her as he speaks and then continues to stare at her for a few seconds afterwards, but his gaze seems almost confrontational to me, almost as if he's marking his territory.  Up until that point he can hardly look at anyone, even Ennis, because he's so worked up.  He looks at the floor and then just gives quick glances to Alma and Ennis.  But that last look is longer and more pointed.  If someone is going to see it again soon, check it out, and let me know what you think.

I have noticed it before; I interpreted it as Jack looking her in the eye, holding her gaze, not backing down. That he felt she knew and he wasn't ashamed or apologetic. He seemed to be saying "he's mine'.

The way you put it, "Marking his territory", is a fun image! I like it.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Brokeback_1 on March 19, 2006, 12:43:33 AM
ok, let me know if I am overanalyzing again.. because maybe I am. :) But, I have been watching the reunion scene and when they are at the motel and Jack says that he 'redlined' it to get there and that he knew they were going to 'get into this again' and asks Ennis "what about you?".. I have been watching Ennis's face and it seems, by the way his mouth moves, up and down, almost smiling, that there is so much he wants to say... but all he can bring himself to say is "me, I don't know". I think that if Ennis had really answered that question he would have talked for hours... I also think he did not even know HOW to say the things he was thinking in that moment, as he has never really expressed emotion before. Did anyone else feel like there was so much he wanted to say, but couldn't?

Ok let me think on how to say this: Yes.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Brokeback_1 on March 19, 2006, 12:58:05 AM
Quote
I just saw the movie for the 10th time the other day and I noticed something in the reunion scene that I'd never really picked up on before (and maybe it's already been discussed here 300 times!). Anyway, at the very end of the scene when Ennis says he and Jack are going to go get a drink and Jack says good-bye to Alma, he stares right at her as he speaks and then continues to stare at her for a few seconds afterwards, but his gaze seems almost confrontational to me, almost as if he's marking his territory. Up until that point he can hardly look at anyone, even Ennis, because he's so worked up. He looks at the floor and then just gives quick glances to Alma and Ennis. But that last look is longer and more pointed. If someone is going to see it again soon, check it out, and let me know what you think.

I have noticed it before; I interpreted it as Jack looking her in the eye, holding her gaze, not backing down. That he felt she knew and he wasn't ashamed or apologetic. He seemed to be saying "he's mine'.

The way you put it, "Marking his territory", is a fun image! I like it.
I too noticed this; first time I saw BBM it seemed as if  Jack was  making the huge effort it takes to not seem as if he's hiding. Look at how he speaks to her and then all one sees is his hat covering his face. { The use of hats in the film, by the way is brilliant. Remember when Agguire sees them making out? Even in a moment of wild abandon Ennis hides their kiss on the ground with his hat.  Even then it can't see the light of day---although his knees have dirt all over the denim, we KNOW what he had been doing before the kiss}

The second/third times I saw it <sat through it twice> it seemed as if Jack was doing the above AND all but letting her know that he was Ennis' man.

The 4th time it seemed as if Jack first tried to be polite and then retreated into his hat, saying more with that then a thousand words.

Since then <9 times all told> I think he held his ground and claimed Ennis as his own, and then all but told herthat  Ennis belonged to him but the world and ALMA could think Ennis was Alma's. That it would be hidden from sight  the same way his face was hidden by the hat.

I also like the notion that he was marking his territory! Great image, that!

Any comments and feedback on that? I like constructive criticism, I was just constructively told here on the Forum that my head is up me arse  <LOL>: it occasionally is.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: playitagain on March 19, 2006, 06:28:44 AM
Quote
I just saw the movie for the 10th time the other day and I noticed something in the reunion scene that I'd never really picked up on before (and maybe it's already been discussed here 300 times!). Anyway, at the very end of the scene when Ennis says he and Jack are going to go get a drink and Jack says good-bye to Alma, he stares right at her as he speaks and then continues to stare at her for a few seconds afterwards, but his gaze seems almost confrontational to me, almost as if he's marking his territory. Up until that point he can hardly look at anyone, even Ennis, because he's so worked up. He looks at the floor and then just gives quick glances to Alma and Ennis. But that last look is longer and more pointed. If someone is going to see it again soon, check it out, and let me know what you think.

I have noticed it before; I interpreted it as Jack looking her in the eye, holding her gaze, not backing down. That he felt she knew and he wasn't ashamed or apologetic. He seemed to be saying "he's mine'.



The way you put it, "Marking his territory", is a fun image! I like it.
I too noticed this; first time I saw BBM it seemed as if  Jack was  making the huge effort it takes to not seem as if he's hiding. Look at how he speaks to her and then all one sees is his hat covering his face. { The use of hats in the film, by the way is brilliant. Remember when Agguire sees them making out? Even in a moment of wild abandon Ennis hides their kiss on the ground with his hat.  Even then it can't see the light of day---although his knees have dirt all over the denim, we KNOW what he had been doing before the kiss}

The second/third times I saw it <sat through it twice> it seemed as if Jack was doing the above AND all but letting her know that he was Ennis' man.

The 4th time it seemed as if Jack first tried to be polite and then retreated into his hat, saying more with that then a thousand words.

Since then <9 times all told> I think he held his ground and claimed Ennis as his own, and then all but told herthat  Ennis belonged to him but the world and ALMA could think Ennis was Alma's. That it would be hidden from sight  the same way his face was hidden by the hat.

I also like the notion that he was marking his territory! Great image, that!

Any comments and feedback on that? I like constructive criticism, I was just constructively told here on the Forum that my head is up me arse  <LOL>: it occasionally is.

O you blessed few who still have the film at hand.  I'd be at the Multiplex in a snap, if it hadnt been snatched up.  I'm interested in reflecting upon Jack's staking out his territory. This is a mighty powerful scene, and my UTube version is too brief.

Maybe it called be called "primal"?  Maybe Ennis is facing her down, also, for in the story we read: " "Alma," he said, "Jack and me ain't seen each other in four years."  As if it were a reason.  HE WAS GLAD THE LIGHT WAS DIM ON THE LANDING BUT HE DID NOT TURN AWAY FROM HER."

Alma knows she's lost him.  Her grief and fury as she sees Jack below, lounginig against the truck.







Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: karen1129 on March 19, 2006, 09:12:37 AM
When I saw the movie the first time and this reunion scene came on, I almost jump up in the theater and
yelled YES  YES YES .
I think with Ennis, this was the moment he truly realized he loved Jack.  He had been thinking about him a lot,
but due to his upbringing had really pushed the thought that he might have fallen in love with Jack aside.
The second he saw Jack after that 4 year absence, flew down those stairs and embraced Jack, he knew
Jack was the person that was his soul mate.  The love of his life.  Man..... when he slammed him against
that wall and laid in that lip lock.......   whew !!!    They couldn't get to that motel fast enough !!!
I almost came unglued with that head nuzzle.  Don't know whose idea that was, but that was
so tender.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: moonbeam on March 19, 2006, 12:19:25 PM
ok, my favorite scene in the whole movie is the reunion scene. And it is the scene that gives me the greatest sense of peace and hope because.. (and I know Jack and Ennis are fictional but just humor me... :)) I really think that, wherever Jack is (heaven or whatever), he is waiting for Ennis, the same way that Ennis was waiting for him that day when they first reunited... he is waiting and when Ennis shows up it will be Jack who jumps up and runs out to greet him and this time they will be reunited forever... I swear I get a little crazier every time I see this movie... :-\
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: lcavanaugh on March 19, 2006, 07:36:04 PM
This scene is by far my favorite one - before this, when did we ever see Ennis act so quick and spry, so passionate about anything before? Both actors did a fantastic job here.

The first time I saw the movie, I noticed Ennis's reaction to seeing Jack - the bounding down the steps as fast as he could, the smile on his face, the looking around before he pushed Jack to the wall for that hot kiss - but the second time I saw the movie, what I noticed this time was Jack's face after the first kiss. It almost looked anguished, maybe it was. I saw redemption, confirmation, jubilation at knowing that he wasn't the only one who felt this way all these years! What thoughts must have crossed his mind on the long drive to see Ennis - how was Ennis feeling? What would be Ennis's reaction? I bet Jack wasn't sure what was going to happen, I know he knew what he wanted to happen, as he says in the motel later on.

As I said before, both actors did a great job here. This was so real, so true - it takes my breath away every time.

Just saw the movie for third time last night - I don't know when I will ever stop wanting to keep seeing this film. Best I have ever seen, and have never seen any other more than once in a theater.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: HazelEyedRaven on March 19, 2006, 07:43:48 PM
Quote
I just saw the movie for the 10th time the other day and I noticed something in the reunion scene that I'd never really picked up on before (and maybe it's already been discussed here 300 times!). Anyway, at the very end of the scene when Ennis says he and Jack are going to go get a drink and Jack says good-bye to Alma, he stares right at her as he speaks and then continues to stare at her for a few seconds afterwards, but his gaze seems almost confrontational to me, almost as if he's marking his territory. Up until that point he can hardly look at anyone, even Ennis, because he's so worked up. He looks at the floor and then just gives quick glances to Alma and Ennis. But that last look is longer and more pointed. If someone is going to see it again soon, check it out, and let me know what you think.

I have noticed it before; I interpreted it as Jack looking her in the eye, holding her gaze, not backing down. That he felt she knew and he wasn't ashamed or apologetic. He seemed to be saying "he's mine'.

The way you put it, "Marking his territory", is a fun image! I like it.
I too noticed this; first time I saw BBM it seemed as if  Jack was  making the huge effort it takes to not seem as if he's hiding. Look at how he speaks to her and then all one sees is his hat covering his face. { The use of hats in the film, by the way is brilliant. Remember when Agguire sees them making out? Even in a moment of wild abandon Ennis hides their kiss on the ground with his hat.  Even then it can't see the light of day---although his knees have dirt all over the denim, we KNOW what he had been doing before the kiss}

The 4th time it seemed as if Jack first tried to be polite and then retreated into his hat, saying more with that then a thousand words.

Since then <9 times all told> I think he held his ground and claimed Ennis as his own, and then all but told her that Ennis belonged to him but the world and ALMA could think Ennis was Alma's. That it would be hidden from sight  the same way his face was hidden by the hat.

I also like the notion that he was marking his territory! Great image, that!

Any comments and feedback on that? I like constructive criticism, I was just constructively told here on the Forum that my head is up me arse  <LOL>: it occasionally is.

I'm interested in reflecting upon Jack's staking out his territory. This is a mighty powerful scene, and my UTube version is too brief.

Maybe it called be called "primal"?  Maybe Ennis is facing her down, also, for in the story we read: " "Alma," he said, "Jack and me ain't seen each other in four years."  As if it were a reason.  HE WAS GLAD THE LIGHT WAS DIM ON THE LANDING BUT HE DID NOT TURN AWAY FROM HER."

Alma knows she's lost him.  Her grief and fury as she sees Jack below, lounginig against the truck.


Went again today (I've lost count which number it is).  Watched intently on the look that Jack gives Alma.  He does in fact seem very anxious at first while standing there in front of Alma.  He's preoccupied with Ennis.  You can almost feel the intensity there between them.  He keeps looking at Ennis' mouth then his eyes, trying to maintain some sort of composure.  He retreats back under his hat repeatedly. 

But just as they are leaving, Jack says, "Nice to meet you, ma'am," then looks up directly at Alma.  He's almost staring her down.  It is a sharp, pointed look.  Not a glance.  It's longer.  Not uncomfortable or anxious or nervous anymore.  It's unapologetic.  It is as though he's saying, "He's mine."  But it's not cruel, either.  It's just as-a-matter-of-fact. 

Wow.  There is so much to watch in the acting.  What is said and not said.  What it all means.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: David G on March 19, 2006, 07:46:52 PM
ok, my favorite scene in the whole movie is the reunion scene.

This afternoon, I used the Movie Maker program to splice the Reunion scene without cutting away to Alma. The cut doesn't even disturb the music much.

I've been running it in a slow motion loop. When they break off, Ennis rubs his nose against Jacks nose, like two horses might do. It looks really sweet.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: aevkc on March 19, 2006, 07:56:00 PM
Quote
I just saw the movie for the 10th time the other day and I noticed something in the reunion scene that I'd never really picked up on before (and maybe it's already been discussed here 300 times!). Anyway, at the very end of the scene when Ennis says he and Jack are going to go get a drink and Jack says good-bye to Alma, he stares right at her as he speaks and then continues to stare at her for a few seconds afterwards, but his gaze seems almost confrontational to me, almost as if he's marking his territory. Up until that point he can hardly look at anyone, even Ennis, because he's so worked up. He looks at the floor and then just gives quick glances to Alma and Ennis. But that last look is longer and more pointed. If someone is going to see it again soon, check it out, and let me know what you think.

I have noticed it before; I interpreted it as Jack looking her in the eye, holding her gaze, not backing down. That he felt she knew and he wasn't ashamed or apologetic. He seemed to be saying "he's mine'.

The way you put it, "Marking his territory", is a fun image! I like it.
I too noticed this; first time I saw BBM it seemed as if  Jack was  making the huge effort it takes to not seem as if he's hiding. Look at how he speaks to her and then all one sees is his hat covering his face. { The use of hats in the film, by the way is brilliant. Remember when Agguire sees them making out? Even in a moment of wild abandon Ennis hides their kiss on the ground with his hat.  Even then it can't see the light of day---although his knees have dirt all over the denim, we KNOW what he had been doing before the kiss}

The 4th time it seemed as if Jack first tried to be polite and then retreated into his hat, saying more with that then a thousand words.

Since then <9 times all told> I think he held his ground and claimed Ennis as his own, and then all but told her that Ennis belonged to him but the world and ALMA could think Ennis was Alma's. That it would be hidden from sight  the same way his face was hidden by the hat.

I also like the notion that he was marking his territory! Great image, that!

Any comments and feedback on that? I like constructive criticism, I was just constructively told here on the Forum that my head is up me arse  <LOL>: it occasionally is.

I'm interested in reflecting upon Jack's staking out his territory. This is a mighty powerful scene, and my UTube version is too brief.

Maybe it called be called "primal"?  Maybe Ennis is facing her down, also, for in the story we read: " "Alma," he said, "Jack and me ain't seen each other in four years."  As if it were a reason.  HE WAS GLAD THE LIGHT WAS DIM ON THE LANDING BUT HE DID NOT TURN AWAY FROM HER."

Alma knows she's lost him.  Her grief and fury as she sees Jack below, lounginig against the truck.


Went again today (I've lost count which number it is).  Watched intently on the look that Jack gives Alma.  He does in fact seem very anxious at first while standing there in front of Alma.  He's preoccupied with Ennis.  You can almost feel the intensity there between them.  He keeps looking at Ennis' mouth then his eyes, trying to maintain some sort of composure.  He retreats back under his hat repeatedly. 

But just as they are leaving, Jack says, "Nice to meet you, ma'am," then looks up directly at Alma.  He's almost staring her down.  It is a sharp, pointed look.  Not a glance.  It's longer.  Not uncomfortable or anxious or nervous anymore.  It's unapologetic.  It is as though he's saying, "He's mine."  But it's not cruel, either.  It's just as-a-matter-of-fact. 

Wow.  There is so much to watch in the acting.  What is said and not said.  What it all means.

Thanks everybody for all your responses to my post. I'm glad I wasn't the only one who noticed that look and thought it meant something important.  This movie has so many levels and so many things you don't notice during the first viewing.  But sometimes I start thinking I'm seeing things when there's really nothing there!   ;)  But I definitely think Jack was telling Alma something with that look.  Ennis was his and he wasn't going to back down.  I agree the look he gives her isn't cruel, but it's also not sympathetic towards her.  He's letting her know he's not going away.  Amazing scene, from the minute Ennis lights the cigarette to the end.  Can I just say again how much I love this movie!   :)
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: lessa on March 19, 2006, 09:35:22 PM
I think people have mentioned/asked before whether Ennis is just retucking his shirt or if he is "re-adjusting" (in the "ahem..." sense) before he goes upstairs, but...maybe this belongs in the "things the film got wrong" section but...taking into account their LEVEL of arousal during the reunion make-out (that is beyond heavy breathing, well into the practically moaning-with-want zone!! Them's sounds you usually don't hear before people are horizontal!) I find it beyond far-fetched that either of them would have been able to stand in front of Alma without quite a bit of recovery time! Away from each other! What are they, 23 at most in that scene?

I guess I don't really have a point. Just needed to make the comment, hear if I'm crazy.

~lessa
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Jaysmommy on March 19, 2006, 10:57:32 PM

Quote
I just saw the movie for the 10th time the other day and I noticed something in the reunion scene that I'd never really picked up on before (and maybe it's already been discussed here 300 times!). Anyway, at the very end of the scene when Ennis says he and Jack are going to go get a drink and Jack says good-bye to Alma, he stares right at her as he speaks and then continues to stare at her for a few seconds afterwards, but his gaze seems almost confrontational to me, almost as if he's marking his territory. Up until that point he can hardly look at anyone, even Ennis, because he's so worked up. He looks at the floor and then just gives quick glances to Alma and Ennis. But that last look is longer and more pointed. If someone is going to see it again soon, check it out, and let me know what you think.







But just as they are leaving, Jack says, "Nice to meet you, ma'am," then looks up directly at Alma.  He's almost staring her down.  It is a sharp, pointed look.  Not a glance.  It's longer.  Not uncomfortable or anxious or nervous anymore.  It's unapologetic.  It is as though he's saying, "He's mine."  But it's not cruel, either.  It's just as-a-matter-of-fact. 




Hmmm, never really saw his looking at Alma that way....oh darn it, now I'll just have to go see it again, check it out, and report back!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: HazelEyedRaven on March 19, 2006, 11:04:24 PM

Went again today (I've lost count which number it is).  Watched intently on the look that Jack gives Alma.  He does in fact seem very anxious at first while standing there in front of Alma.  He's preoccupied with Ennis.  You can almost feel the intensity there between them.  He keeps looking at Ennis' mouth then his eyes, trying to maintain some sort of composure.  He retreats back under his hat repeatedly. 

But just as they are leaving, Jack says, "Nice to meet you, ma'am," then looks up directly at Alma.  He's almost staring her down.  It is a sharp, pointed look.  Not a glance.  It's longer.  Not uncomfortable or anxious or nervous anymore.  It's unapologetic.  It is as though he's saying, "He's mine."  But it's not cruel, either.  It's just as-a-matter-of-fact. 

Wow.  There is so much to watch in the acting.  What is said and not said.  What it all means.

Thanks everybody for all your responses to my post. I'm glad I wasn't the only one who noticed that look and thought it meant something important.  This movie has so many levels and so many things you don't notice during the first viewing.  But sometimes I start thinking I'm seeing things when there's really nothing there!   ;)  But I definitely think Jack was telling Alma something with that look.  Ennis was his and he wasn't going to back down.  I agree the look he gives her isn't cruel, but it's also not sympathetic towards her.  He's letting her know he's not going away.  Amazing scene, from the minute Ennis lights the cigarette to the end.  Can I just say again how much I love this movie!   :)
Quote

We don't get a good shot of her response to Jack's stare down but before that, you see a pained look of betrayal, hurt and anger on her face.  I think Jack picks that up.  That's why she follows them out to ask Ennis about getting her a pack of smokes.  To bring him back because she knows what Jack just told her:  you've lost him.

It occurs to me that Jack doesn't think much of Alma.  That's why he's so flippant about criticizing her when they are out at the fire, "You and Alma?  That's a life?" AND why he doesn't understand why Ennis won't just up and leave her.  Maybe that dislike of her is part of that stare.  She's an obstacle between him and Ennis.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: sinne on March 19, 2006, 11:12:37 PM
I think people have mentioned/asked before whether Ennis is just retucking his shirt or if he is "re-adjusting" (in the "ahem..." sense) before he goes upstairs, but...maybe this belongs in the "things the film got wrong" section but...taking into account their LEVEL of arousal during the reunion make-out (that is beyond heavy breathing, well into the practically moaning-with-want zone!! Them's sounds you usually don't hear before people are horizontal!) I find it beyond far-fetched that either of them would have been able to stand in front of Alma without quite a bit of recovery time! Away from each other! What are they, 23 at most in that scene?

I guess I don't really have a point. Just needed to make the comment, hear if I'm crazy.

~lessa

Lessa - I asked it on another thread (one of the adults only ones).  I agree.  Ennis and Jack were certainly VERY aroused and I wondered how they could go into the house that soon too.  I also wondered if the actors would have the same "problem" - just doing that scene.  I'm not a guy so not sure how that all works.   ;)
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: sinne on March 19, 2006, 11:16:29 PM
ok, my favorite scene in the whole movie is the reunion scene.

This afternoon, I used the Movie Maker program to splice the Reunion scene without cutting away to Alma. The cut doesn't even disturb the music much.

I've been running it in a slow motion loop. When they break off, Ennis rubs his nose against Jacks nose, like two horses might do. It looks really sweet.

David - I wish I knew how to do that!  Is it something you can share?  I'd love to have that scene without Alma in it.  I mentioned that on an earlier thread - about the nuzzle being very "horse-like".  I LOVE it!  That's definitely my favourite scene in BBM.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: City Girl on March 19, 2006, 11:31:33 PM
ok, my favorite scene in the whole movie is the reunion scene. And it is the scene that gives me the greatest sense of peace and hope because.. (and I know Jack and Ennis are fictional but just humor me... :)) I really think that, wherever Jack is (heaven or whatever), he is waiting for Ennis, the same way that Ennis was waiting for him that day when they first reunited... he is waiting and when Ennis shows up it will be Jack who jumps up and runs out to greet him and this time they will be reunited forever... I swear I get a little crazier every time I see this movie... :-\

Know what you mean about getting crazier, I have a whole alternative universe where their grandchildren (that of course look just like them) meet up, fall in love, fuck like crazy and have a baby.  Oh god, I'm dying of embarrassment now.  This is insanity.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: sinne on March 19, 2006, 11:47:59 PM
I just had a new thought after watching the reunion clip for the 1000th time at least:  Don't you think every time Ennis went by that stairwell afterwards he remembered kissing Jack there?  I know I would.  I would have had it bronzed! 
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: City Girl on March 19, 2006, 11:50:36 PM

Quote
But that last look is longer and more pointed. If someone is going to see it again soon, check it out, and let me know what you think.


But just as they are leaving, Jack says, "Nice to meet you, ma'am," then looks up directly at Alma.  He's almost staring her down.  It is a sharp, pointed look.  Not a glance.  It's longer.  Not uncomfortable or anxious or nervous anymore.  It's unapologetic.  It is as though he's saying, "He's mine."  But it's not cruel, either.  It's just as-a-matter-of-fact. 


Hmmm, never really saw his looking at Alma that way....oh darn it, now I'll just have to go see it again, check it out, and report back!

Me neither, but I get caught up in everything else that is going on.  Oh bother, yet another reason to go see it again.  Oh well...

How is it that people can say this film is boring?  There is so much going on in every freakin' scene.  They are idiots.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Brokeback_1 on March 20, 2006, 02:39:14 AM
I think people have mentioned/asked before whether Ennis is just retucking his shirt or if he is "re-adjusting" (in the "ahem..." sense) before he goes upstairs, but...maybe this belongs in the "things the film got wrong" section but...taking into account their LEVEL of arousal during the reunion make-out (that is beyond heavy breathing, well into the practically moaning-with-want zone!! Them's sounds you usually don't hear before people are horizontal!) I find it beyond far-fetched that either of them would have been able to stand in front of Alma without quite a bit of recovery time! Away from each other! What are they, 23 at most in that scene?

I guess I don't really have a point. Just needed to make the comment, hear if I'm crazy.

~lessa
No, you wouldn't know, your'plumbing' is different lessa!
Any male with anerect penis knows how to stand so it doesn't show, even in tight pants. Even in bluejeans. Even if it's, ahem, a BIG one, you can ' keep it decent' and hide it. Sometimes it aint easy but it can be done. At 23 those two damned well DID have erect penii, and they would also know how to hide them. It would have been pointless in a way, the hallmarks of intense horniness were written all over their faces.  I'm sure they DID hide their erections, but they couldn't hide their flushed faces, heavy breathing, the  sharp glitter in their eyes-around their eyes, the HUNGRY looks.
Matter of fact Heath and Jake actually did have to get aroused to pull that off, a guy can't fake the biological  give-aways in the face. Wonder what orgiastic hetero notions  were in their minds!!!!! lool lolo lol
What do you 'guys' think---we can hide wood, even big ones. And the boys did too
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: moonbeam on March 20, 2006, 05:17:47 AM
ok, my favorite scene in the whole movie is the reunion scene. And it is the scene that gives me the greatest sense of peace and hope because.. (and I know Jack and Ennis are fictional but just humor me... :)) I really think that, wherever Jack is (heaven or whatever), he is waiting for Ennis, the same way that Ennis was waiting for him that day when they first reunited... he is waiting and when Ennis shows up it will be Jack who jumps up and runs out to greet him and this time they will be reunited forever... I swear I get a little crazier every time I see this movie... :-\

Know what you mean about getting crazier, I have a whole alternative universe where their grandchildren (that of course look just like them) meet up, fall in love, fuck like crazy and have a baby.  Oh god, I'm dying of embarrassment now.  This is insanity.

Yes! I am so happy to know that I an not alone in my insanity!  Thanks CityGirl
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: robelibob on March 20, 2006, 07:57:44 AM
Went again today (I've lost count which number it is).  Watched intently on the look that Jack gives Alma.  He does in fact seem very anxious at first while standing there in front of Alma.  He's preoccupied with Ennis.  You can almost feel the intensity there between them.  He keeps looking at Ennis' mouth then his eyes, trying to maintain some sort of composure.  He retreats back under his hat repeatedly. 

But just as they are leaving, Jack says, "Nice to meet you, ma'am," then looks up directly at Alma.  He's almost staring her down.  It is a sharp, pointed look.  Not a glance.  It's longer.  Not uncomfortable or anxious or nervous anymore.  It's unapologetic.  It is as though he's saying, "He's mine."  But it's not cruel, either.  It's just as-a-matter-of-fact. 

Wow.  There is so much to watch in the acting.  What is said and not said.  What it all means.

I simply LOVE that look. I did'nt notice it before you guys mentioned it, but now, how could I miss it? It says so much... Words can't describe it. "Nice to meet you ma'am" but back of for now, he's mine for now. He's not excusing himself, just stating fact. Jake is so good there.

And Michelle is sublime! Oh my god, who knew that Dawson's Creek held such an actress?!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Rob. on March 20, 2006, 09:03:51 AM
I think people have mentioned/asked before whether Ennis is just retucking his shirt or if he is "re-adjusting" (in the "ahem..." sense) before he goes upstairs, but...maybe this belongs in the "things the film got wrong" section but...taking into account their LEVEL of arousal during the reunion make-out (that is beyond heavy breathing, well into the practically moaning-with-want zone!! Them's sounds you usually don't hear before people are horizontal!) I find it beyond far-fetched that either of them would have been able to stand in front of Alma without quite a bit of recovery time! Away from each other! What are they, 23 at most in that scene?

I guess I don't really have a point. Just needed to make the comment, hear if I'm crazy.

~lessa

  You may not have a point....but I bet (http://THEY) sure did  :D ;D

  Subtle point <cough>

  Rob
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: 909dot on March 20, 2006, 09:35:50 AM
I think people have mentioned/asked before whether Ennis is just retucking his shirt or if he is "re-adjusting" (in the "ahem..." sense) before he goes upstairs, but...maybe this belongs in the "things the film got wrong" section but...taking into account their LEVEL of arousal during the reunion make-out (that is beyond heavy breathing, well into the practically moaning-with-want zone!! Them's sounds you usually don't hear before people are horizontal!) I find it beyond far-fetched that either of them would have been able to stand in front of Alma without quite a bit of recovery time! Away from each other! What are they, 23 at most in that scene?

I guess I don't really have a point. Just needed to make the comment, hear if I'm crazy.

~lessa

  You may not have a point....but I bet (http://THEY) sure did  :D ;D

  Subtle point <cough>

  Rob

there are a lot of "adjustments" that went on before both got up stairs I'm sure...hell. they both stand with there hands in there pockets...and Jack cant even stand up straight in that scene with Alma... ;D
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: fishinbuddy on March 20, 2006, 09:38:30 AM
Quote
I think people have mentioned/asked before whether Ennis is just retucking his shirt or if he is "re-adjusting" (in the "ahem..." sense) before he goes upstairs, but...maybe this belongs in the "things the film got wrong" section but...taking into account their LEVEL of arousal during the reunion make-out (that is beyond heavy breathing, well into the practically moaning-with-want zone!! Them's sounds you usually don't hear before people are horizontal!) I find it beyond far-fetched that either of them would have been able to stand in front of Alma without quite a bit of recovery time! Away from each other! What are they, 23 at most in that scene?

I guess I don't really have a point. Just needed to make the comment, hear if I'm crazy.

~lessa

  You may not have a point....but I bet sure did  Cheesy Grin

  Subtle point <cough>

  Rob

Yep, I   thought the same thing. I don't think I could kiss like that for a few minutes with someone that hot I loved and hadn't seen for four years, and NOT be aroused. I know they had to be so I think Ennis is tucking in more than just his shirt. OF course, Jack is behind him and has time to do the same off-camera. Ennis of course didn't wear underwear so I don't know if that wood [sic] make it easier or 'harder'.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Robinegg on March 20, 2006, 04:06:39 PM
Didja notice how, after he rubbed his thumb across his brow, he moved his hand back to caress his ear? All these little details! Someone on these forums described that scene as "full-bore Ennis".... imagine the heat of the passion later in the motel room?

*sound of heavy breathing and sweat dripping on keyboard*
Quote

I have said it before and I will say it again... this is the hottest scene I have ever seen in a movie... and to think that I used to think that Titanic was romantic (not that I don't still love it).. it just seems like such a long time since I have seen such an incredible portaryal of love in a film. I would rather watch the reunion scene than any full scale holloywood love scene anyday... but that is me, and I am a little obsessed!
Quote

I feel the same way.  What do we have to look forward to - love stories done Hollywood style?  I'm scared, and truthfully feel, that no other movie will come close to capturing the raw passion that can be felt between two people in love.

My friends wanted to see "Failure to Launch".  I tagged along.  I was so glad, in a way, that it was too packed to get 4 decent seats.  Such a shame!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Robinegg on March 20, 2006, 04:29:23 PM
ok, my favorite scene in the whole movie is the reunion scene. And it is the scene that gives me the greatest sense of peace and hope because.. (and I know Jack and Ennis are fictional but just humor me... :)) I really think that, wherever Jack is (heaven or whatever), he is waiting for Ennis, the same way that Ennis was waiting for him that day when they first reunited... he is waiting and when Ennis shows up it will be Jack who jumps up and runs out to greet him and this time they will be reunited forever... I swear I get a little crazier every time I see this movie... :-\

Such a wonderful thought.  Your romantic side is showing. lol
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: peteinportland on March 21, 2006, 01:49:08 AM
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Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: danac on March 21, 2006, 10:19:43 AM
Didja notice how, after he rubbed his thumb across his brow, he moved his hand back to caress his ear? All these little details! Someone on these forums described that scene as "full-bore Ennis".... imagine the heat of the passion later in the motel room?

Oh, yeah...love that whole thumb thing! Definitely, major chemistry at work in that scene.

*sound of heavy breathing and sweat dripping on keyboard*
Quote

I have said it before and I will say it again... this is the hottest scene I have ever seen in a movie... and to think that I used to think that Titanic was romantic (not that I don't still love it).. it just seems like such a long time since I have seen such an incredible portaryal of love in a film. I would rather watch the reunion scene than any full scale holloywood love scene anyday... but that is me, and I am a little obsessed!
Quote

I feel the same way.  What do we have to look forward to - love stories done Hollywood style?  I'm scared, and truthfully feel, that no other movie will come close to capturing the raw passion that can be felt between two people in love.

My friends wanted to see "Failure to Launch".  I tagged along.  I was so glad, in a way, that it was too packed to get 4 decent seats.  Such a shame!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: KittyHawk on March 21, 2006, 10:29:52 AM
And now a word from your sponsor!

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Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: KittyHawk on March 21, 2006, 10:31:08 AM
Sorry for the interruption - please resume talking about adjusting shirt tail and rubbing thumb across brow, etc., etc.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: danac on March 21, 2006, 10:42:07 AM
Just watched this scene again for the gazillionth time...and just noticed that dead-on "he's mine now" look Jack gives Alma! That is too brilliant!
And, that moment when Ennis breaks from Jack and Jack's mouth is open, he looks totally verklempt and then looks after Ennis!!! Omigod!

How did these boys not win all the acting awards?

One of the levels on which I love this movie is that, at every viewing, there're little nuances in the performances that I see for the first time!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: City Girl on March 21, 2006, 10:52:39 AM
Sorry for the interruption - please resume talking about adjusting shirt tail and rubbing thumb across brow, etc., etc.

Yes, yes I promise to buy the DVD as soon as I can tear myself away from this site.

And yes, yes, more shirt tail rubbing, thumb adjusting, ahemm, what I meant to say was... 

Also please don't forget the shirt pulling, ear fondling, mouth staring, face holding, forehead rubbing, slamming up against a wall outside stuff.  Oh and please can anyone see any tongue?

Thank you.  Now, please... proceed.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: City Girl on March 21, 2006, 11:05:23 AM
Just watched this scene again for the gazillionth time...and just noticed that dead-on "he's mine now" look Jack gives Alma! That is too brilliant!
And, that moment when Ennis breaks from Jack and Jack's mouth is open, he looks totally verklempt and then looks after Ennis!!! Omigod!

How did these boys not win all the acting awards?

One of the levels on which I love this movie is that, at every viewing, there're little nuances in the performances that I see for the first time!

Yes, good for Jack.  I'm proud of him.  The man knows what belongs to him and the subject isn't even up for discussion.
 
BTW, he isn't the only one verklempt. 

How did these boys not win?   

Because certain voters of certain overblown, pretentious, self congratulatory organizations have their head up their a** is how, not tht I am bitter or anything.  Please don't get me started.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Lfmamma on March 21, 2006, 11:06:23 AM
It occurs to me that Jack doesn't think much of Alma.  That's why he's so flippant about criticizing her when they are out at the fire, "You and Alma?  That's a life?" AND why he doesn't understand why Ennis won't just up and leave her.  Maybe that dislike of her is part of that stare.  She's an obstacle between him and Ennis.

I think you're right about Jack not liking Alma. It's only natural, considering she has what Jack wants more than anything -- Ennis.

This scene is my favourite, and it is so powerful in so many ways. The passion of the reunion makes me gasp for air every time I see it (and I'm up to about 15 viewings, so I shouldn't be surprised anymore...). The relief in Jack when he realizes that Ennis has longed for this as much as he has. The pain it causes Alma when she sees her husband lose control like that - and doing it with another man. And I think you can see on Ennis' face that he knows he is hurting her, but he can't make himself care about it, because Jack is all that matters.

Everytime I watch BBM I walk out with an aching stomach and a slight headache, because I can't stop myself from feeling everything the characters in the movie are feeling, and the aching ALWAYS starts at the moment when Alma is looking out the door. She's dressed up in nice clothes, and she's curious about her husband's friend  - probably because Ennis usually doesn't bring friends home. And what she finds outside her door is so completely foreign to her, that she can't seem to grasp it.

The marvellous acting by all actors in this movie is just one of the (million reasons) why I love BBM. What's so great about it is that you don't really see Heath or Jake acting - you see Ennis and Jack. Period. (BAFTA got it right.  ;))
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: danac on March 21, 2006, 11:34:55 AM
City Girl, you're too right...and I shouldn't get started but, honestly, I have a hard time even talking to anyone who even slightly derides this film or minimizes it's impact and sheer artistry.

By the way, what city? New York?
If so, we should meet for a Brokeaholics gab at Sweet Melissa in Brooklyn...it's in Heath's neighborhood, just coincidentally. LOL
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: City Girl on March 21, 2006, 12:25:09 PM
City Girl, you're too right...and I shouldn't get started but, honestly, I have a hard time even talking to anyone who even slightly derides this film or minimizes it's impact and sheer artistry.

By the way, what city? New York?
If so, we should meet for a Brokeaholics gab at Sweet Melissa in Brooklyn...it's in Heath's neighborhood, just coincidentally. LOL

Heath's neighborhood?...  OMG, you guys are in Heath's neighborhood? 

I need a moment.

Ok, I'm back.  Alas, I am on the left coast in San Francisco.  Bummer...  Otherwise, I'd love to meet up with you all, it would be nice to meet up with someone else with a brain in their heads.  Know what you mean about not being able to talk to unenlightened.  I've become mean, nasty, and downright rude about it. 
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: danac on March 21, 2006, 03:16:24 PM

Heath's neighborhood?...  OMG, you guys are in Heath's neighborhood? 

I need a moment.

Ok, I'm back.  Alas, I am on the left coast in San Francisco.  Bummer...  Otherwise, I'd love to meet up with you all, it would be nice to meet up with someone else with a brain in their heads.  Know what you mean about not being able to talk to unenlightened.  I've become mean, nasty, and downright rude about it. 

Well, I'm in Manhattan and he's in Brooklyn but it's only a train ride away - like 15 minutes. And, he goes to Sweet Melissa all the time...well, he might not anymore since it's being plastered all over the internet! Oh dear.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: moonbeam on March 21, 2006, 03:17:31 PM
Sorry for the interruption - please resume talking about adjusting shirt tail and rubbing thumb across brow, etc., etc.

Yes, yes I promise to buy the DVD as soon as I can tear myself away from this site.

And yes, yes, more shirt tail rubbing, thumb adjusting, ahemm, what I meant to say was... 

Also please don't forget the shirt pulling, ear fondling, mouth staring, face holding, forehead rubbing, slamming up against a wall outside stuff.  Oh and please can anyone see any tongue?

Thank you.  Now, please... proceed.


omg... has there ever been a hotter scene in film history?  I didn't see any tongue... but seriously, CityGirl... could we have handled it? If that reunion got any hotter I think they would have found me passed out in the movie aisle..  :o
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: City Girl on March 21, 2006, 03:34:39 PM
Sorry for the interruption - please resume talking about adjusting shirt tail and rubbing thumb across brow, etc., etc.

Yes, yes I promise to buy the DVD as soon as I can tear myself away from this site.

And yes, yes, more shirt tail rubbing, thumb adjusting, ahemm, what I meant to say was... 

Also please don't forget the shirt pulling, ear fondling, mouth staring, face holding, forehead rubbing, slamming up against a wall outside stuff.  Oh and please can anyone see any tongue?

Thank you.  Now, please... proceed.


omg... has there ever been a hotter scene in film history?  I didn't see any tongue... but seriously, CityGirl... could we have handled it? If that reunion got any hotter I think they would have found me passed out in the movie aisle..  :o

No, there has never been a hotter scene ever, anywhere in the history of film.  Ever.  I'm only going to say it one more time, Ever.
 
Could we have handled it if either of us had a reunion like that after a 4-year separation with the love of our life, who just happens to look like either Ennis or Jack?  Don't know 'bout you but, I'm thinkin' I would have passed out right there in the stairwell/hidey place.  But, I'm willing to give it a go.  You know, for a purely scientific a purpose that is.

Too bad no tongue.  Ah well, a girl can dream...
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: City Girl on March 21, 2006, 03:37:31 PM

Heath's neighborhood?...  OMG, you guys are in Heath's neighborhood? 

I need a moment.

Ok, I'm back.  Alas, I am on the left coast in San Francisco.  Bummer...  Otherwise, I'd love to meet up with you all, it would be nice to meet up with someone else with a brain in their head.  Know what you mean about not being able to talk to unenlightened.  I've become mean, nasty, and downright rude about it. 

Well, I'm in Manhattan and he's in Brooklyn but it's only a train ride away - like 15 minutes. And, he goes to Sweet Melissa all the time...well, he might not anymore since it's being plastered all over the internet! Oh dear.

15 minutes... so close and yet so far.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: moonbeam on March 21, 2006, 03:49:33 PM
  You know, for a purely scientific a purpose that is...

wow. When you get your award for dedication to science, please dedicate to Brokeaholics everywhere.. :D  p.s.- I meant "could we handle seeing any tongue in that scene?" 
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: City Girl on March 21, 2006, 04:03:54 PM
  You know, for a purely scientific a purpose that is...

wow. When you get your award for dedication to science, please dedicate to Brokeaholics everywhere.. :D  p.s.- I meant "could we handle seeing any tongue in that scene?" 

Brokeaholics are first on the thank you list, to be followed closely by our boys Jack and Ennis who inspires us all.

You are right about not handling seeing any tongue.  Theatres everywhere would have had to station paramedics.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: BestLoveStory on March 21, 2006, 11:19:20 PM
City Girl, you're too right...and I shouldn't get started but, honestly, I have a hard time even talking to anyone who even slightly derides this film or minimizes it's impact and sheer artistry.

By the way, what city? New York?
If so, we should meet for a Brokeaholics gab at Sweet Melissa in Brooklyn...it's in Heath's neighborhood, just coincidentally. LOL

Me 2! The other day one of my friends started making fun of it (she didn't know that I'd seen it TWICE within the same week already...I know not as many as some of you but..yea) and I just BLEW UP in her face! I couldn't help it! It also made me want to be sad and even cry because I feel the characters were so real and the tragedy so heartbreaking that it was like she was one of the people putting them down...causing them to put the fear in Ennis that made the heartbeaking ending of the story.

xD  I must be crazy! Tell me if I am!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Brokeback_1 on March 21, 2006, 11:41:15 PM
It occurs to me that Jack doesn't think much of Alma.  That's why he's so flippant about criticizing her when they are out at the fire, "You and Alma?  That's a life?" AND why he doesn't understand why Ennis won't just up and leave her.  Maybe that dislike of her is part of that stare.  She's an obstacle between him and Ennis.

I think you're right about Jack not liking Alma. It's only natural, considering she has what Jack wants more than anything -- Ennis.

This scene is my favourite, and it is so powerful in so many ways. The passion of the reunion makes me gasp for air every time I see it (and I'm up to about 15 viewings, so I shouldn't be surprised anymore...). The relief in Jack when he realizes that Ennis has longed for this as much as he has. The pain it causes Alma when she sees her husband lose control like that - and doing it with another man. And I think you can see on Ennis' face that he knows he is hurting her, but he can't make himself care about it, because Jack is all that matters.

Everytime I watch BBM I walk out with an aching stomach and a slight headache, because I can't stop myself from feeling everything the characters in the movie are feeling, and the aching ALWAYS starts at the moment when Alma is looking out the door. She's dressed up in nice clothes, and she's curious about her husband's friend  - probably because Ennis usually doesn't bring friends home. And what she finds outside her door is so completely foreign to her, that she can't seem to grasp it.

The marvellous acting by all actors in this movie is just one of the (million reasons) why I love BBM. What's so great about it is that you don't really see Heath or Jake acting - you see Ennis and Jack. Period. (BAFTA got it right.  ;))

1--I don't think they got the Best and Best Supporting Oscars because they were too young, and there were men in contention who have given brilliant performances for years without being awarded and acknowledged

2--I don't think jack disliked Alma at all. Not one bit.I think he saw her as an obstacle, which is very different from having him dislikeing her. I'm getting this out of a situation I once found myself in, so yes, it's personalising it. The man involved had a woman in his life. I did not dislike, detest or hate her. I wished she would disappear, she was an obstacle in my way. When I met her I felt badly for her, as she had not signed up  for THIS: what woman does??? I actually liked her. And I wanted her to go away. And without touching anyone physically, or bringing it up verbally, in about 5 seconds we had this silent communication with each other. Each let the other know he/she was with the competition. Each let the other know he/she didn't blame the other. Each let the other know he/she had not been part of the deal. Each let the other know there was no hate , or dislike on a personal level. Each also let the other know that each was gonna fight for what they wanted. And each of us just wanted the other to disappear.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Brokeback_1 on March 22, 2006, 12:13:33 AM
And I have to say this: it blows me away how many WOMEN in the threads---straight women!!!-- are so turned on by M/M sex and foreplay!!!

a question: WHY.
Damned near all the women i know profess to be turned off by homosex.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: PetiteMiel on March 22, 2006, 01:46:28 AM
brokeback1 There are thousands possibly millions of straight women who are turned on by M/M sex. Ever go on to a fanfic site and looked at the slash threads. Most of it is written and read by straight women. Why are we turned on by M/M sex? That's a good question and I know there are a lot of women out there asking themselves the same question.  I think it's no different then straight men who find the idea of two women together a turn on. Maybe it's because as straight women we like men, we like their bodies and we like to fantasize about them naked so two naked men is even better then one. LOL

On some level it may be about subconsciously projecting ourselves into the scenario. A woman might be imagining herself as a third party in a little M/F/M sandwich or she could be subconsciously imagining herself as one of the men performing the same acts on the other man. Or it could just be because IT'S HOT!!! Who really knows why they're turned on by anything? Everyone has different things that they find arousing. I'm not sure if anyone can really explain why a particular thing gets them revved up.

I also know a lot of women who are turned on by M/M but they keep it very much a secret because they are afraid of what others will think of them. While I think most people wouldn't blink at the thought of men enjoying two women together (it's become almost cliched) they would still look at women who enjoys the M/M thing as if there was something wrong with them. I say whatever trips your trigger.

I know I found the reunion scene very Hot and I think part of it is the intensity of it. The raw passion with which they attack each other as if they can't wait another minute for it. It's that gotta have it now kind of thing but there's also that look on Jack's face that makes it very emotionally fulfilling too because in that look you see how much he wanted Ennis to still want him and he's blown away by the kiss.

Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: lolita on March 22, 2006, 05:18:53 AM
I used to think it was just me that was a bit kooky loving the boy/boy action so much in BBM
Then I discovered slash...whole new world out there... ;)
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: bbmx4 on March 22, 2006, 05:47:51 AM
Quote
1--I don't think they got the Best and Best Supporting Oscars because they were too young, and there were men in contention who have given brilliant performances for years without being awarded and acknowledged

I thought the same thing... Ledger's and Gyllenhaal's performances were great but so were the performances of the winning actors (I read - haven't seen Syriana and Capote yet) who've been in the business for much longer. Heath and Jake still have many years in the biz and tons of roles in front of them, and I'm pretty sure they'll get their Oscars.

PS: Anyone heard the rumor Pitt is looking for a gay role (not that I mind) - so he'd finally get an Oscar, too? ;D
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Ginevra on March 22, 2006, 05:58:39 AM
How it is Ennis who initiates the kiss - I, too, would have loved to hear the "little darlin" but it might have confused psople who see it and didn´t read the book. They might have even laughed.

well, this is easily fixed.....a flashback scene back in Heath's....err...sorry....Ennis' childhood days where he says "little darlin" to his daughters and horses...... :D Imagine our Ennis ("not big on endearments") telling Jack those two little tender words......MAGIC MOMENT!!! :o
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: stacp on March 22, 2006, 06:18:35 AM
And I have to say this: it blows me away how many WOMEN in the threads---straight women!!!-- are so turned on by M/M sex and foreplay!!!

a question: WHY.
Damned near all the women i know profess to be turned off by homosex.

Three words for you:  Jake and Heath
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: stacp on March 22, 2006, 06:23:15 AM
Sorry for the interruption - please resume talking about adjusting shirt tail and rubbing thumb across brow, etc., etc.

Yes, yes I promise to buy the DVD as soon as I can tear myself away from this site.

And yes, yes, more shirt tail rubbing, thumb adjusting, ahemm, what I meant to say was... 

Also please don't forget the shirt pulling, ear fondling, mouth staring, face holding, forehead rubbing, slamming up against a wall outside stuff.  Oh and please can anyone see any tongue?

Thank you.  Now, please... proceed.


omg... has there ever been a hotter scene in film history?  I didn't see any tongue... but seriously, CityGirl... could we have handled it? If that reunion got any hotter I think they would have found me passed out in the movie aisle..  :o

If there had been tongue in that scene, I sure hope my theater would have had one of those automatic defibrillator's on hand to shock me back to life!  My heart surely would have stopped at that point!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: danac on March 22, 2006, 06:24:45 AM
And I have to say this: it blows me away how many WOMEN in the threads---straight women!!!-- are so turned on by M/M sex and foreplay!!!

a question: WHY.
Damned near all the women i know profess to be turned off by homosex.

Three words for you:  Jake and Heath

That's right, Stacp...them's the three words all right! I can't imagine that anyone on the planet - male or female - would kick Jake G out of bed...
But, honestly, I think it goes a little deeper than that: if you buy the concept that these two souls fell in love - purely and absolutely - then the sex is a natural byproduct of that attachment. AND, I think women like to see love - so what if it's two beautiful men, or women or the traditional couple - real passionate love is a turn on.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: stacp on March 22, 2006, 06:28:06 AM
"He grabs me and he slams me up against the wall and kisses me, and then I grab him and I slam him up against the wall and I kiss him," he said recently, adding that the love scenes were the most violent he'd ever done.
"We were doing take after take after take. I got the shit beat out of me. ... We had other scenes where we fought each other and I wasn't hurting as badly as I did after that one."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think this deserves a lifetime achievement award for the Most Dedication to the Art of Reunion Make-Out Scenes.  If Jake G. needed someone to doctor his wounds after the Reunion scene, I surely could have mustered up the strength to help the poor boy out! ;D

P.S.  I swear I will stop posting now!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Ginevra on March 22, 2006, 06:47:10 AM
But, honestly, I think it goes a little deeper than that: if you buy the concept that these two souls fell in love - purely and absolutely - then the sex is a natural byproduct of that attachment. AND, I think women like to see love - so what if it's two beautiful men, or women or the traditional couple - real passionate love is a turn on.

Honestly, watching two women making love never turned me on. What is a bit...how would I say.....scaring? :o is that actually Ennis' and Jake's sex scenes turn me on as no other hetero sex scene did......I have to rewatch the reunion kiss and the SNIT at least once a day. I know this is against doctor's order, but I have to survive.... ;D
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: danac on March 22, 2006, 07:02:11 AM


Honestly, watching two women making love never turned me on. What is a bit...how would I say.....scaring? :o is that actually Ennis' and Jake's sex scenes turn me on as no other hetero sex scene did......I have to rewatch the reunion kiss and the SNIT at least once a day. I know this is against doctor's order, but I have to survive.... ;D

I know! I have YouTube permanently on from dawn to midnight...and watch those two scenes more than once a day. I honestly think they're the sexiest love scenes in recent cinematic history. I can't imagine that anyone could think otherwise.
It's why I cherish talking the people on line here - you're the only ones that get it.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: stacp on March 22, 2006, 07:22:53 AM
But, honestly, I think it goes a little deeper than that: if you buy the concept that these two souls fell in love - purely and absolutely - then the sex is a natural byproduct of that attachment. AND, I think women like to see love - so what if it's two beautiful men, or women or the traditional couple - real passionate love is a turn on.


If there is a prescription medicine out there for this thing, I'm not sure if I want to take it!  Just lock me up and throw away the key (but make sure You Tube is playing on a permanent loop in the room)!  Seriously, I think you hit the nail on the head.  The chemistry between Jake and Heath is unbelievable.  I bought the love between them hook, line and sinker.  Two souls found each other--the passion is unreal.  Love it, love it, want some more of it.   :P
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: danac on March 22, 2006, 07:28:34 AM

If there is a prescription medicine out there for this thing, I'm not sure if I want to take it!  Just lock me up and throw away the key (but make sure You Tube is playing on a permanent loop in the room)!  Seriously, I think you hit the nail on the head.  The chemistry between Jake and Heath is unbelievable.  I bought the love between them hook, line and sinker.  Two souls found each other--the passion is unreal.  Love it, love it, want some more of it.   :P
Quote

When you read what Jake and Heath say about filming the love scenes - they approached it like a dance, it was choreographed to the second, etc - you understand that they are actors, not lovers. But watching the scenes, is another story and why these two didn't win more acting awards is beyond me because if ever love scenes rang true, these are the ones.
No medicine, dearie...not for me. I hope this obsession never goes away...LOL although I have been less than productive since I discovered this site and YouTube!!!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Ginevra on March 22, 2006, 07:38:45 AM
why these two didn't win more acting awards is beyond me because if ever love scenes rang true, these are the ones.

and this is true for any other scene, not just the love ones. The first thing popping to my mind is the "are we going to do this next summer?" again.Isn't that scene amazing? Just one single exemple.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: danac on March 22, 2006, 01:00:20 PM
[
and this is true for any other scene, not just the love ones. The first thing popping to my mind is the "are we going to do this next summer?" again.Isn't that scene amazing? Just one single exemple.
Oh, Ginerva...talk about heartbreaking...that little smile that Jack tries to smile when he says he'll go to his Daddy's and, BEST OF ALL, when Ennis says..."see you around then.." how Jack lowers his head and then quickly looks up at Ennis like " You can't mean this." Omigod...
OH, and...how about when he gets out his truck, Ennis is griping about losing the shirt and Jack sort of just grunts it off...this doesn't have great impact the first time you see the film...but, the second, I was crying already.

My idea of heaven on earth? Pack me off to an island, with my BBM cd, my BBM dvd and all you guys...and let the rest of the word go away!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Ellen (tellyouwhat) on March 22, 2006, 04:53:13 PM
And I have to say this: it blows me away how many WOMEN in the threads---straight women!!!-- are so turned on by M/M sex and foreplay!!!

a question: WHY.
Damned near all the women i know profess to be turned off by homosex.

Three words for you:  Jake and Heath


Three other words - Ennis and Jack.  From the first moment I picked up the short story, those characters seemed real to me, and by the time I'd read it twice I was slain.  I couldn't stop thinking about it and had to work up the courage to see the movie, which then took me to the next dimension.  I have discussed this with other women and one made the comment that most gay characters in media are stereotyped -but Jack and Ennis are three dimensional on the page and on the screen.  We want so much for it to end differently - for Jack to get some little thing more from Ennis, for Ennis to learn some little thing more from Jack, just a little earlier.  All leading to the inevitable confrontation, the words they have that show how much each has invested in each other.  I would say, it's the characters, the fact that the entire project from short story to directing to acting, all superb, all what art should be.

Additional thoughts - I'm glad we have Jake's description of the choreography of the love scenes, which gives us insight into how they planned the shooting and also helps those of us obsessed who imagine nuance upon nuance (Jake looks at Ennis' mouth at the end of the hug, etc.) It's clear we are building our fantasies onto this but they have given us a great palette for that, I'm in favor of it.  Thank goodness for this website.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Ellen (tellyouwhat) on March 22, 2006, 05:36:01 PM


This is the first set of posts that made me teary-eyed in a couple of weeks. Poor Ennis. He thought he drove Jack away, and then he has to deny Jack something Ennis wants very much to give to him ("some sweet life"). It's heartbreaking.

You know, the second time we see them fight, Ennis may think he drove Jack away again, but this time there is no redemption. There is no reunion scene except for the shirts in the closet.

Pete
Quote
What you say is so true, the second time round there is no redemption and no reunion, just the shirts. So devastating I can hardly bear it.


Yes, there is a parallel between the first time they part, when Ennis has asserted his need to dominate with the punch (in the story he explains to Jack in the motel how he had to fight his older brother or be bullied - the movie elaborates to show us the bloody nose and Ennis' emotional reaction, all mixed up with hating to leave the mountain...) -- and then later, when Jack is standing up to him for the first time in twenty years, telling him this is a "goddam bitch of a unsatisfactory situation," and yes, as a matter of fact, he did have a better idea, then Ennis asserts himself again with the threat to kill him if he comes to find out all them things he didn't know.  That is the short effin leash he keeps Jack on.  Here I appreciate Jack so much because he doesn't think he can ever quit Ennis but evidently once they part he tries.  So touching, I understand it but that doesn't mean he wouldn't have shown up in November had he lived.  okay I'm ready to cry again...  NOT to leave the thread of the Reunion, but it's all integral, isn't it?
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: moonbeam on March 22, 2006, 05:44:46 PM
[------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think this deserves a lifetime achievement award for the Most Dedication to the Art of Reunion Make-Out Scenes.  If Jake G. needed someone to doctor his wounds after the Reunion scene, I surely could have mustered up the strength to help the poor boy out! ;D

P.S.  I swear I will stop posting now!
Quote

Don't stop posting! You make me laugh! p.s.-  they should hand out the reunion scene to men everywhere and tell them to learn from it. If some man ever kissed me like that I would worship him forever... especially if he had eyelashes like Jake Gyllenhall or an accent like Heath Ledger... or both...   ;)
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: snuffle007 on March 22, 2006, 08:01:43 PM
OMG I utterly adore this whole set up. First when Ennis receives the postcard, you see his eyes light up reading it. He can't believe that Jack has contacted him. He can't wait to go and send a reply telling him "You bet"

I love the way Ennis waits in all day, he is nervous, anxious, excited. He can't stop fidgeting, he smokes his cigarettes right to the filter. Then he looks so miserable when he think Jack isn't coming, then we hear a car on gravel and we feel excited and Ennis....well...the smile says it all. When he sees Jack outside, he is positively beeming! It can't get outside fast enough. He BOUNDS down the stairs and they just thump together in their hug. They are holding each other so tight, you can see the way their hands are grabbing at each others shirts. Then they pull apart Jack is just staring at Ennis's mouth and Ennis is just checking to see if anyone is around (Only briefly mind you) then he couldn't give a fuck and thinks..."Sod it, I'm going for it!" and then begins to push Jack into the wall. The look on Jack's face is amazing. He is a little surprised to see Ennis acting so passionately.

Then the kiss.....WOW is all I will say..... It is intense, passionate, full of desire. They can't keep their hands off each other. They break apart for a few seconds, when Jack looks into Ennis's eyes, Ennis is grabbing tightly at Jack's shirt, urging him to kiss him, and then the second kiss.....BLOODY HELL...I'M JUST A PUDDLE ON THE FLOOR!!. Full of urgency almost desperation. This is a kiss they have been waiting 4 long years for (and I felt like I had been waiting for it forever as well!!) The bit where Alma sees them (Damn her for spoiling this scene!!) I love the way they are just leaning on each other, wanting their whole bodies to be touching.....PHEW..........NOW JUST MELTING EVEN MORE!!!

Ennis manages to compose himself (God knows how) and starts to separate. Jack you will notice doesn't want to. He is still clinging to Ennis's shirt and still leaning so close to him, and his mouth is still only centimeters away form Ennis's. But Ennis manages to get Jack to let go, but then he nuzzles Jack with his head, a very reassuring movement. It's almost like Ennis wants to put his scent on Jack, saying "Jack is mine!!" The look of surprise on Jack's face is brilliant. He was really taken aback by this whole thing.

I also love the way that Ennis and Jack are still out of breath when they go inside. I also love the chemistry inside the house. You can almost feel the desire and longing they have for each other. Can't keep still, making idle chit chat, unable to stop looking at each other. I love the way in the book Annie Proulx says this of that moment inside the house:

Quote
"You gotta Kid?" said Jack, his shaking hand grazed Ennis's hand, electrical current snapped between them. From the vibration of the floorboard on which they both stood, Ennis could feel how hard Jack was shaking

That really sums up that whole scene for me. Electricity. You can't stop the spark!!!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: danac on March 22, 2006, 08:07:25 PM
I was thinking tonight - while other people at dinner were blathering about stuff unrelated to BBM - that Jack always knew Ennis loved him...from the reunion because Ennis called him "lil darlin" - the story says he only called his daughters and his horses that - so that was the "I love you" he maybe couldn't say...but Jack knew him better than anyone and had to know what it meant for Ennis to say it...
I'm wondering why the screenwriters and the director chose not to let us hear that...? So easy to slip in...at the hug or at the moment when Ennis touches Jack's face just before he goes upstairs...it would have eased me to hear him say that...

Totally verklempt now...
til tomorrow then...
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: sotoalf on March 22, 2006, 08:16:42 PM
The reunion is darkened by our knowledge that it and the next few years (the closest they had to a "honeymoon," broken -- in a bitter irony -- shortly after Ennis' divorce and Jack's realization that Ennis won't commit to him after all) are the best times they'll ever had. So sad.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: aintnoreins on March 22, 2006, 08:30:29 PM
Okay, so in my fifth viewing tonight, I realized that right after the intense kissing part of the reunion, Ennis does say something to Jack as he nuzzles his head ever so slightly before they head inside to Alma.

Does anyone here have any guesses as to what he says? I'd like to think it's our ever-elusve "lil darlin," but it seemed too short for that. Almost monosyllabic. (Though I guess even Ennis' three-syllable words come out in a single syllable most of the time...)

Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: downloaded1 on March 22, 2006, 08:32:38 PM
Okay, so in my fifth viewing tonight, I realized that right after the intense kissing part of the reunion, Ennis does say something to Jack as he nuzzles his head ever so slightly before they head inside to Alma.

Does anyone here have any guesses as to what he says? I'd like to think it's our ever-elusve "lil darlin," but it seemed too short for that. Almost monosyllabic. (Though I guess even Ennis' three-syllable words come out in a single syllable most of the time...)



"c'mere"
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: testadura on March 22, 2006, 08:33:09 PM
Okay, so in my fifth viewing tonight, I realized that right after the intense kissing part of the reunion, Ennis does say something to Jack as he nuzzles his head ever so slightly before they head inside to Alma.
Does anyone here have any guesses as to what he says? I'd like to think it's our ever-elusve "lil darlin," but it seemed too short for that. Almost monosyllabic. (Though I guess even Ennis' three-syllable words come out in a single syllable most of the time...)
I always hear "later" but others have heard "come 'ere."  Either works in the scene.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Ellen (tellyouwhat) on March 22, 2006, 08:40:51 PM
I was thinking tonight - while other people at dinner were blathering about stuff unrelated to BBM - that Jack always knew Ennis loved him...from the reunion because Ennis called him "lil darlin" - the story says he only called his daughters and his horses that - so that was the "I love you" he maybe couldn't say...but Jack knew him better than anyone and had to know what it meant for Ennis to say it...
I'm wondering why the screenwriters and the director chose not to let us hear that...? So easy to slip in...at the hug or at the moment when Ennis touches Jack's face just before he goes upstairs...it would have eased me to hear him say that...

Totally verklempt now...
til tomorrow then...


I think the reason "lil darlin" was left out was because there was no way to relate the history of it, as A.Proulx did in the story.   "Ennis, never big on endearments, said what he sometimes said to his horses and daughters, Little darlin."  In the film that would have had to come out of nowhere, so they opted to keep Ennis's character more clearcut.

The most unsatisfying moment for me in the film is when Jack asks Ennis, in the motel, "what about you?" he wants to know did Ennis think they would get into it again, and Ennis answers in the abstract.  I know that has been treated in previous posts but it is ultimately unsatisfying to me.  I didn't know where in the hell you was-- I never should have let you out of my sights -- sure as hell seem in one piece to me -- or tell Jack about how he suffered dry heaves when they parted, all in the story but not the film.  Some hint of it would have been good there.  OK, I accept it anyway, because I have both, the film and the story. 
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: alma on March 22, 2006, 08:48:00 PM

The most unsatisfying moment for me in the film is when Jack asks Ennis, in the motel, "what about you?" he wants to know did Ennis think they would get into it again, and Ennis answers in the abstract.  I know that has been treated in previous posts but it is ultimately unsatisfying to me.  I didn't know where in the hell you was-- I never should have let you out of my sights -- sure as hell seem in one piece to me -- or tell Jack about how he suffered dry heaves when they parted, all in the story but not the film.  Some hint of it would have been good there.  OK, I accept it anyway, because I have both, the film and the story. 

Annie Proulx felt the same way and apparently lobbied Ang Lee to include all of that. But Lee felt that the film's narrative arc would be lost if Ennis revealed all that so early on. So he went for building tension until the final scene when they are together and Ennis breaks down.

I love that scene in the story so I feel the loss of it each time I watch the movie. But when I hadn't read the story yet, the movie felt right to me as it was. So it was probably a tough call. I have sort of a merged version of story/film in my head now when I read or watch either of them. :) The sense of humor in the movie is absent in the story and I appreciate having that in my head as I read.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: sotoalf on March 22, 2006, 08:52:03 PM
The most unsatisfying moment for me in the film is when Jack asks Ennis, in the motel, "what about you?" he wants to know did Ennis think they would get into it again, and Ennis answers in the abstract.  I know that has been treated in previous posts but it is ultimately unsatisfying to me.  I didn't know where in the hell you was-- I never should have let you out of my sights -- sure as hell seem in one piece to me -- or tell Jack about how he suffered dry heaves when they parted, all in the story but not the film.  Some hint of it would have been good there.  OK, I accept it anyway, because I have both, the film and the story. 

I totally agree. Lee and his screenwriters decided that they wanted to intensify Ennis' repression and self-loathing.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: aintnoreins on March 22, 2006, 08:58:15 PM
The most unsatisfying moment for me in the film is when Jack asks Ennis, in the motel, "what about you?" he wants to know did Ennis think they would get into it again, and Ennis answers in the abstract.  I know that has been treated in previous posts but it is ultimately unsatisfying to me.  I didn't know where in the hell you was-- I never should have let you out of my sights -- sure as hell seem in one piece to me -- or tell Jack about how he suffered dry heaves when they parted, all in the story but not the film.  Some hint of it would have been good there.  OK, I accept it anyway, because I have both, the film and the story. 

I totally agree. Lee and his screenwriters decided that they wanted to intensify Ennis' repression and self-loathing.

That and I think, too, to emphasize Jack's intense faith in their relationship... for him to stay on Ennis' short leash all of those years with hardly a word from Ennis about the power of their love says so much. It's as though Jack believed that his love for Ennis could prevail over Ennis' own self-hatred (which occasionally came out as anger towards Jack, and Jack took this in stride). I do think it made them both a bit more complex in a way that came across extraordinarily well on film. It's so amazing to see how these nuances are negotiated differently in the book and on film, and yet each is so cohesive and powerful in its own way...
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: aintnoreins on March 22, 2006, 08:59:26 PM
Okay, so in my fifth viewing tonight, I realized that right after the intense kissing part of the reunion, Ennis does say something to Jack as he nuzzles his head ever so slightly before they head inside to Alma.
Does anyone here have any guesses as to what he says? I'd like to think it's our ever-elusve "lil darlin," but it seemed too short for that. Almost monosyllabic. (Though I guess even Ennis' three-syllable words come out in a single syllable most of the time...)
I always hear "later" but others have heard "come 'ere."  Either works in the scene.

iiiinteresting. I thought maybe I'd heard "c'mon," but I wasn't sure. thanks for the input :)
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: City Girl on March 22, 2006, 11:20:07 PM
But, honestly, I think it goes a little deeper than that: if you buy the concept that these two souls fell in love - purely and absolutely - then the sex is a natural byproduct of that attachment. AND, I think women like to see love - so what if it's two beautiful men, or women or the traditional couple - real passionate love is a turn on.

Honestly, watching two women making love never turned me on. What is a bit...how would I say.....scaring? :o is that actually Ennis' and Jake's sex scenes turn me on as no other hetero sex scene did......I have to rewatch the reunion kiss and the SNIT at least once a day. I know this is against doctor's order, but I have to survive.... ;D

Ditto!  A couple of women?  *Snore*  And I am yet to find an example of when it didn't seem gratuitous.  But, Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, Heath and Jake here were nothing short of staggering together.

As for continious loop, I have petitioned my gym to place a continious loop of this scene on the little TV screens attached to the elliptical traners.  I am convinced that if they did so I would be down to a size 2 in no time.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: deevah2 on March 23, 2006, 12:44:52 AM
.-  they should hand out the reunion scene to men everywhere and tell them to learn from it. If some man ever kissed me like that I would worship him forever....


that's  exactly what I told a friend!! Although many including my friend focus on the "gay" factor this story is about LOVE. If some man kissed me like that,    I could (at least for a time  :) easily see myself being a female Jack-coming back year after year just to get some (all puns intended )!  OMG the Passion in that scene!!! No words needed-every fiber of their bodies seem to light up the screen with realism. 
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: VICKI on March 23, 2006, 05:34:04 AM
When Ennis and Jack are reunited after 4 years, the same reaction happened in the cinema both times I saw the film.  The audience erupted in laughter.  I couldn't believe that it happened twice at exactly the same moment.  As soon as they start passionately kissing, eveyone laughs and when Alma looks out from the door, the laughter got louder.  I felt like I was watching some comedy.  I had a theory that maybe they were laughing through embarassment, but whatever the reason, it totally ruined that part for me and now I can't wait to get the DVD and watch it in peace with no annoying laughter intruding upon this scene.  Also, both times, the audience laughed when Joe Agguire spotted Ennis and Jack larking around with their shirts off on Brokeback Mountain.  I didn't think that was meant to be funny and it really annoyed me that some people are so immature.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: moonbeam on March 23, 2006, 05:36:09 AM
Okay, so in my fifth viewing tonight, I realized that right after the intense kissing part of the reunion, Ennis does say something to Jack as he nuzzles his head ever so slightly before they head inside to Alma.

Does anyone here have any guesses as to what he says? I'd like to think it's our ever-elusve "lil darlin," but it seemed too short for that. Almost monosyllabic. (Though I guess even Ennis' three-syllable words come out in a single syllable most of the time...)



ok, some may call me crazy, but this is what I heard... first, as they are trying to break apart I hear Ennis saying 'later' and then I hear him say 'ok' and THEN I hear him say 'c'mere'...  listen closely.. I swear this is what he says... :)
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ellye on March 23, 2006, 06:14:12 AM
Okay, so in my fifth viewing tonight, I realized that right after the intense kissing part of the reunion, Ennis does say something to Jack as he nuzzles his head ever so slightly before they head inside to Alma.

Does anyone here have any guesses as to what he says? I'd like to think it's our ever-elusve "lil darlin," but it seemed too short for that. Almost monosyllabic. (Though I guess even Ennis' three-syllable words come out in a single syllable most of the time...)



Do you mean when he says 'later'? Jack doesn't want to stop what they're doing, but Ennis pulls his hands down, takes his face in his hands, and says 'later' before the nuzzle and before he pulls himself away!
He's telling Jack they're continue this 'later'. I actually heard that the first time I saw the scene.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: moonbeam on March 23, 2006, 06:18:49 AM
Okay, so in my fifth viewing tonight, I realized that right after the intense kissing part of the reunion, Ennis does say something to Jack as he nuzzles his head ever so slightly before they head inside to Alma.

Does anyone here have any guesses as to what he says? I'd like to think it's our ever-elusve "lil darlin," but it seemed too short for that. Almost monosyllabic. (Though I guess even Ennis' three-syllable words come out in a single syllable most of the time...)



YES! The 'later' is totally there! I hear it everytime I watch it. Also... I didn't pick up on this the first few times but he says 'ok?' and 'c'mere'...  I have to admit that it's hard to listen closely to this scene when all you want is to watch it closely.. for the 100th time..  ok, I am a little obsessed... ;)
Do you mean when he says 'later'? Jack doesn't want to stop what they're doing, but Ennis pulls his hands down, takes his face in his hands, and says 'later' before the nuzzle and before he pulls himself away!
He's telling Jack they're continue this 'later'. I actually heard that the first time I saw the scene.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: ellye on March 23, 2006, 06:20:14 AM
Okay, so in my fifth viewing tonight, I realized that right after the intense kissing part of the reunion, Ennis does say something to Jack as he nuzzles his head ever so slightly before they head inside to Alma.
Does anyone here have any guesses as to what he says? I'd like to think it's our ever-elusve "lil darlin," but it seemed too short for that. Almost monosyllabic. (Though I guess even Ennis' three-syllable words come out in a single syllable most of the time...)
I always hear "later" but others have heard "come 'ere."  Either works in the scene.

Ennis says both. After the hug, as he takes hold of Jack to back him up to the wall, he says "c'm'ere" and he says "later" before they tear themselves apart to go up the stairs.

On the loud clip on youtube it sounds like Ennis says something before they part, as well. It's hard to tell because of the music playing, but it sounds somethign like "Come here now" - which is Ennis telling Jack they have to pull themselves together, act normal, and go and see Alma!  ;D
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: danac on March 23, 2006, 06:46:30 AM


I think the reason "lil darlin" was left out was because there was no way to relate the history of it, as A.Proulx did in the story.   "Ennis, never big on endearments, said what he sometimes said to his horses and daughters, Little darlin."  In the film that would have had to come out of nowhere, so they opted to keep Ennis's character more clearcut.

The most unsatisfying moment for me in the film is when Jack asks Ennis, in the motel, "what about you?" he wants to know did Ennis think they would get into it again, and Ennis answers in the abstract.  I know that has been treated in previous posts but it is ultimately unsatisfying to me.  I didn't know where in the hell you was-- I never should have let you out of my sights -- sure as hell seem in one piece to me -- or tell Jack about how he suffered dry heaves when they parted, all in the story but not the film.  Some hint of it would have been good there.  OK, I accept it anyway, because I have both, the film and the story. 
Quote

Oh, me , too...you want to hear him tell Jack that he was ill that he let him get away!!! Or something....but instead Ennis/Heath quite eloquently just pulls Jack's arm a little closer. Not words..but a loud message just the same.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: David G on March 23, 2006, 07:03:31 AM
Quote
The most unsatisfying moment for me in the film is when Jack asks Ennis, in the motel, "what about you?" he wants to know did Ennis think they would get into it again, and Ennis answers in the abstract.  I know that has been treated in previous posts but it is ultimately unsatisfying to me. 

The Motel scene in the film and the short story are problematic because they differ on key points.

In the story, Ennis tells Jack he's been thinking about him and masturbating thinking about him. Ennis asks, "You do it with other guys? (pause) Jack?"

Jack is hesitant to answer because Ennis has just told him how faithful and true he has been to their relationship. Jack, on the other hand, has been "riding more than bulls" (doing it with other men) and "not rolling his own" (not satisfied with masturbating thinking of Ennis).

In the film, Jack asks Ennis what he thinks about their relationship and Ennis very reluctant to admit to missing or caring for Jack. It's the complete opposite of what is going on in the short story where Ennis is practically bragging about his sexual feelings for Jack.

It's tough reconciling the film and the short story.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Ellen (tellyouwhat) on March 23, 2006, 07:15:07 AM


It's tough reconciling the film and the short story.
Quote


I'm exceedingly grateful we have both.  The biggest difference is the motel scene, acknowledged by Annie Proulx, also she said the arc of a film is different than a short story so they chose to do some things different.  Speaking of Reunion/Motel--

There have been some posts speculating what actually happened in the motel (who bottomed, etc) Am I just naive or ignorant of these details (being a straight woman) to think that by the time they slow down to talk, hours have passed.  The story says the room smelled of semen, whiskey, sweat, on and on --  if that were a hetero encounter there would have been many positions tried, one satisfying the other, a few different ways.  Is that not possible?  Also, I got the feeling, both in the film and the story, that Ennis let go of all his inhibitions when he was alone with Jack, starting back on the mountain, so I don't expect he analyzed too much whether he gave anything up in either position, I think he'd have wanted to do that for Jack, if Jack wanted it.  Just as long as Jack stayed on that short leash, Ennis dominated that way.  Anybody?
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Ellen (tellyouwhat) on March 23, 2006, 07:22:06 AM
When Ennis and Jack are reunited after 4 years, the same reaction happened in the cinema both times I saw the film.  The audience erupted in laughter.  I couldn't believe that it happened twice at exactly the same moment.  As soon as they start passionately kissing, eveyone laughs and when Alma looks out from the door, the laughter got louder.  I felt like I was watching some comedy.  I had a theory that maybe they were laughing through embarassment, but whatever the reason, it totally ruined that part for me and now I can't wait to get the DVD and watch it in peace with no annoying laughter intruding upon this scene.  Also, both times, the audience laughed when Joe Agguire spotted Ennis and Jack larking around with their shirts off on Brokeback Mountain.  I didn't think that was meant to be funny and it really annoyed me that some people are so immature.



Vicki, since I had to work up courage to see this movie (spending a few weeks getting used to the ending in the story) I began my multiple treks to the theatre the week after the Academy Awards.  At most there were fifteen people in the theatre  on my second viewing.  I have never heard anyone laugh at the Reunion scene (I guess I'm lucky) but I heard many gasps when Ennis broke into the kiss.  That was exceedingly satisfying.  I share it with you so you know that different reaction has been out there.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: David G on March 23, 2006, 07:23:28 AM
Quote
There have been some posts speculating what actually happened in the motel (who bottomed, etc) Am I just naive or ignorant of these details (being a straight woman) to think that by the time they slow down to talk, hours have passed.  The story says the room smelled of semen, whiskey, sweat, on and on --  if that were a hetero encounter there would have been many positions tried, one satisfying the other, a few different ways.  Is that not possible?  Also, I got the feeling, both in the film and the story, that Ennis let go of all his inhibitions when he was alone with Jack, starting back on the mountain, so I don't expect he analyzed too much whether he gave anything up in either position, I think he'd have wanted to do that for Jack, if Jack wanted it.  Just as long as Jack stayed on that short leash, Ennis dominated that way.  Anybody?

When I lived in Miami and I delt with the Cuban community, it was a very common to feel that a relationship between two men was ok so long as you were the "top".

Many families would accept their sons gay lifestyle so long as they knew he was "the man" in the relationship". Likewise, families would reject a son who was the bottom.

While in most real life gay relationships, there is rarely a strict top and bottom, it is my belief that the character of Ennis we are given in the film could have found it very easy to convince himself that he wasn't queer because he was the top.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: David G on March 23, 2006, 07:26:29 AM
Quote
I have never heard anyone laugh at the Reunion scene (I guess I'm lucky) but I heard many gasps when Ennis broke into the kiss.  That was exceedingly satisfying.  I share it with you so you know that different reaction has been out there.

Heath Ledger says he laughed at that scene:

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/profile/story/9448111/heath_ledger_lonesome_cowboy?rnd=1143123097140&has-player=true&version=6.0.12.1212

Quote
"Yeah," he [Heath Ledger] says. "Her poor character. Michelle played it so well -- just that look on her face." He shrugs. "Every time I see it, I can't help but laugh."
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: Ellen (tellyouwhat) on March 23, 2006, 07:35:34 AM
Thanks for that info!  If Heath laughs at that scene, I chalk it up to the nervous reaction.  I love that Jake and Heath said (I think in the Oprah interview?) if they had known what the reaction would be to the film, they couldn't have done it.  They had to do the scenes thinking  no one would ever see them.  This rings true to me.

If anyone knows how I can view the entire Oprah interview, please tell me? 
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: danac on March 23, 2006, 07:35:39 AM

Heath Ledger says he laughed at that scene:


Quote
"Yeah," he [Heath Ledger] says. "Her poor character. Michelle played it so well -- just that look on her face." He shrugs. "Every time I see it, I can't help but laugh."

I adore Heath...but WTF is up with that???? :-\
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: danac on March 23, 2006, 08:02:20 AM
Just watched the reunion again - fav place is YouTube: MV Jack and Ennis' Best Moments - to see the look that Jack gives Alma when they're about to leave...BUT, has anyone noticed the look on Ennis' face after he grabs his hat and jacket?
He looks at Jack and the tension on his face is so palpable!!!
I love that moment...someone watch, please, and tell me what you think!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: danac on March 23, 2006, 08:18:03 AM

If anyone knows how I can view the entire Oprah interview, please tell me? 

Log onto themalcontent.com - then, in the upper right hand corner is MalcoVision. CLick that - then scroll down to 31 January...you'll see a pic of Jake and Heath at the SAGs...
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: moonbeam on March 23, 2006, 08:34:52 AM
Just watched the reunion again - fav place is YouTube: MV Jack and Ennis' Best Moments - to see the look that Jack gives Alma when they're about to leave...BUT, has anyone noticed the look on Ennis' face after he grabs his hat and jacket?
He looks at Jack and the tension on his face is so palpable!!!
I love that moment...someone watch, please, and tell me what you think!

omg, danac.. you are so right! One of the things that I love best about Brokeback is how much is conveyed with so little dialouge. I watch other 'love storiy' type movies now and they do not convey one-tenth of the emotion, for all their flowery diaplouge, that Jack and Ennis do with a simple look.  Jake and Heath are such incredible actors... :)
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: danac on March 23, 2006, 08:49:20 AM
Just watched the reunion again  ..., has anyone noticed the look on Ennis' face after he grabs his hat and jacket?
He looks at Jack and the tension on his face is so palpable!!!
I love that moment...someone watch, please, and tell me what you think!

omg, danac.. you are so right! One of the things that I love best about Brokeback is how much is conveyed with so little dialouge. I watch other 'love storiy' type movies now and they do not convey one-tenth of the emotion, for all their flowery diaplouge, that Jack and Ennis do with a simple look. 


Moonbeam, thanks for watching that! It just grabs me everytime...and you are right: the brilliance of this film is the minimal dialogue and the broad strokes the actors use to paint a clear picture of every emotion in every frame. Big sigh, here. 
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: aintnoreins on March 23, 2006, 09:21:59 AM
Okay, so in my fifth viewing tonight, I realized that right after the intense kissing part of the reunion, Ennis does say something to Jack as he nuzzles his head ever so slightly before they head inside to Alma.
Does anyone here have any guesses as to what he says? I'd like to think it's our ever-elusve "lil darlin," but it seemed too short for that. Almost monosyllabic. (Though I guess even Ennis' three-syllable words come out in a single syllable most of the time...)
I always hear "later" but others have heard "come 'ere."  Either works in the scene.

Ennis says both. After the hug, as he takes hold of Jack to back him up to the wall, he says "c'm'ere" and he says "later" before they tear themselves apart to go up the stairs.

On the loud clip on youtube it sounds like Ennis says something before they part, as well. It's hard to tell because of the music playing, but it sounds somethign like "Come here now" - which is Ennis telling Jack they have to pull themselves together, act normal, and go and see Alma!  ;D

okay, this makes sense - I do hear the "c'mere" part (as Ennis drags him to the wall) pretty clearly, it's the later part that I'm confused on. And "later" or "come here now" both make sense in terms of the little head-nudge, because that gesture pretty much says the same thing: "yes, I know, and I'm not done with you yet."  :D

Where is this loud clip on youtube? Is it that "best of brokeback" one?
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: dan_senti on March 23, 2006, 09:44:03 AM
 ;D Well i think that i like most the pause during the kissing when the two lovers looking at each other with desires and regret.
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: danac on March 23, 2006, 09:48:23 AM
;D Well i think that i like most the pause during the kissing when the two lovers looking at each other with desires and regret.

Oh, yeah...that's a moment allright! My personal fav - the way Jack is completely fixated on Ennis mouth when they break - after Alma sees them ...Jesus,Joseph and Mary, the way his little head follows Ennis' mouth....aaarrrrrrggghhh!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: dan_senti on March 23, 2006, 09:56:39 AM
Oh, yeah...that's a moment allright! My personal fav - the way Jack is completely fixated on Ennis mouth when they break - after Alma sees them ...Jesus,Joseph and Mary, the way his little head follows Ennis' mouth....aaarrrrrrggghhh!

Seems that u love it too hah, personnally i think it's pretty good with only a hug and a kissing, more than any word! how poetic and romantic!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: danac on March 23, 2006, 10:02:18 AM
Oh, yeah...that's a moment allright! My personal fav - the way Jack is completely fixated on Ennis mouth when they break - after Alma sees them ...Jesus,Joseph and Mary, the way his little head follows Ennis' mouth....aaarrrrrrggghhh!

Seems that u love it too hah, personnally i think it's pretty good with only a hug and a kissing, more than any word! how poetic and romantic!

Oh, yeah, baby!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: aintnoreins on March 23, 2006, 10:08:44 AM
hmm, okay, in watching this five million times to catch those little things, I noticed one more...

When Ennis goes to the post office to write the "You bet" postcard, he's holding Jack's postcard in the other hand, and it's all creased. He stuffs it back in his pocket, seems like maybe he's been carrying it around with him everywhere. How long do we think he lasted between when he got Jack's postcard and when he wrote him back?  ;) Can't have been too long, I guess, since Jack just says "the 24th" and Ennis' card needs time to make its way to Texas...

Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: aintnoreins on March 23, 2006, 10:13:54 AM
Just watched the reunion again - fav place is YouTube: MV Jack and Ennis' Best Moments - to see the look that Jack gives Alma when they're about to leave...BUT, has anyone noticed the look on Ennis' face after he grabs his hat and jacket?
He looks at Jack and the tension on his face is so palpable!!!
I love that moment...someone watch, please, and tell me what you think!

Yes! And he even seems to nudge Jack a little, hat in hand, towards the door, as if to say "Go, because I don't know how much longer I can keep this up."
(maybe that's just a trick of my dim monitor though...)
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: danac on March 23, 2006, 10:20:58 AM
[BUT, has anyone noticed the look on Ennis' face after he grabs his hat and jacket?
He looks at Jack and the tension on his face is so palpable!!!


Yes! And he even seems to nudge Jack a little, hat in hand, towards the door, as if to say "Go, because I don't know how much longer I can keep this up."
(maybe that's just a trick of my dim monitor though...)
Quote

No, it's not your monitor - he does does nudge him toward the door and DOES convey exactly what you say! In the story, Annie says they are both shaking...Ennis can feel Jack's shaking through the floor. Will watch again now to solidify this impression!
*gurlge* *swish*...the sound of my life going down the toilet because I am sooooo hooked on this damn movie!
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: moonbeam on March 23, 2006, 10:21:07 AM
hmm, okay, in watching this five million times to catch those little things, I noticed one more...

When Ennis goes to the post office to write the "You bet" postcard, he's holding Jack's postcard in the other hand, and it's all creased. He stuffs it back in his pocket, seems like maybe he's been carrying it around with him everywhere. How long do we think he lasted between when he got Jack's postcard and when he wrote him back?  ;) Can't have been too long, I guess, since Jack just says "the 24th" and Ennis' card needs time to make its way to Texas...



I love this part as well! It is another non verbal demonstration of Ennis's feelings for Jack. It really rings true to me as well. I thought I was in love once and everything that I had from this person I kept close to me. It was as if I could be close to them, through having something that they gave me. I wouldn't be suprised if Ennis kept all of Jack's postcards... awww.... :'(
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: aintnoreins on March 23, 2006, 10:35:17 AM

*gurlge* *swish*...the sound of my life going down the toilet because I am sooooo hooked on this damn movie!

 :D I'm right there with ya... been obsessing so much over this scene that I haven't eaten breakfast or finished my work that's due in four hours. better go get on that. I'll be back, just maybe not til tomorrow  ;)
(Yeah, I say that now...)
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: danac on March 23, 2006, 10:42:41 AM


 :D I'm right there with ya... been obsessing so much over this scene that I haven't eaten breakfast or finished my work that's due in four hours. better go get on that. I'll be back, just maybe not til tomorrow  ;)
(Yeah, I say that now...)

Yeah, right...see you in a little while - LOL  ;D
Title: Re: Scene: The Reunion
Post by: City Girl on March 23, 2006, 12:18:38 PM
hmm, okay, in watching this five million times to catch those little things, I noticed one more...

When Ennis goes to the post office to write the "You bet" postcard, he's holding Jack's postcard in the other hand, and it's all creased. He stuffs it back in his pocket, seems like maybe he's been carrying it around with him everywhere. How long do we think he lasted between when he got Jack's postcard and when he wrote him back?  ;) Can't have been too long, I guess, since Jack just says "the 24th" and Ennis' card needs time to make its way to Texas...




I love this part as well! It is another non verbal demonstration of Ennis's feelings for Jack. It really rings true to me as well. I thought I was in love once and everything that I had from this person I kept close to me. It was as if I could be close to them, through having something that they gave me. I wouldn't be suprised if Ennis kept all of Jack's postcards... awww.... :'(

Me too