The Reunion

[kumari]

I don't think she's deliberately homophobic--she just is a product of the world she lives in.

I respect your opinion.
Do you think that we let people off the hook more often when the subject is homophobia as opposed to other "-isms?"
Would you have written this sentence if we were talking about race?

[muse]

after the blissfull night in the Motel,what does Ennis take from the medicine cabinet in his house before he goes to the Mountains.....(he has the tooth brush in his mouth

vaseline? I'm just guessing.

i thought it was a bottle of pills. guess i'll have to check again tonight! (god, i'm an addict)

Pills seems like a strange thing to grab from the medicine cabnet...Ennis taking aspirin for a headache?...I cant see it....its small and fits in his had...I seen the movie more than once Ill say. and I CANT make it out....

Anyone else out there have a suggestion...?

Todd

ok, saw it again tonight and still could not catch a glimpse of the object. there is a brief sound that comes across to me as a rattle (hence, my pills guess), but my friend (and viewing partner tonight) guessed razor, which makes sense.

[angela_toronto]

in most scenes at home, notice that ennis sits with his legs crossed and his body tight. 

yet when he's waiting for jack, notice that he sits with legs splayed wide open?  dont need to be a genius to read the symbolism there.

also, i saw the movie earlier today and paid attention to what he removed from the medicine chest.  like an earlier poster said, you really cannot see it but most likely its a razor.

[aceygirl]

I don't think she's deliberately homophobic--she just is a product of the world she lives in.

I respect your opinion.
Do you think that we let people off the hook more often when the subject is homophobia as opposed to other "-isms?"
Would you have written this sentence if we were talking about race?

Thank you. Ditto.
I think that yes, I would have. I'm not saying that ignorance makes the "ism" any more acceptable, but ignorance is a different root than deliberate hatred. They can certainly become intertwined.

If somebody who has never met an Asian before sees me and is amazed that I "speak good English" or assumes I will be docile, sweet and obedient, it's one thing if they honestly just are ignorant. If they are willing to let go of stereotypes, and not hold on to them once they see otherwise, then I don't take the kind of offense that I will when someone yells "Hey Chink!"

That's why I said "deliberately" homophobic. She is a product of a world where she probably had no education on the subject and certainly no discussion. And no motivation to, since she is being cuckolded. I don't think people are outright "black" or "white" in their ...isms, no pun intended. Lack of education, worldly experience, whatever can play factors. It's when someone rejects facts and clings to stereotypes that feed their hatred that it truly turns from "ism" to hatred, prejudice and bigotry.

Just my opinion, as usual.

[plc]

QUESTION -

Not sure if this has already been answered, so I apologize for repeating the question.

In AP's story,  Ennis says - "It took me about a year to realize it, but I should have never let you out of my sight"

So he's acknowledging how much Jack meant to him.  Other than what the movie portrays as Ennis being totally conflicted about this weird feeling, "this thing" that grabs a hold of him and makes him so odd and always wondering what other people think of him.

It's just a subtle shift of perception that was left out of the movie that I think would have softened the blow of Ennis continually rebuffing Jack's ideas as absurd.

[909dot]

after the blissfull night in the Motel,what does Ennis take from the medicine cabinet in his house before he goes to the Mountains.....(he has the tooth brush in his mouth

vaseline? I'm just guessing.

i thought it was a bottle of pills. guess i'll have to check again tonight! (god, i'm an addict)

Pills seems like a strange thing to grab from the medicine cabnet...Ennis taking aspirin for a headache?...I cant see it....its small and fits in his had...I seen the movie more than once Ill say. and I CANT make it out....

Anyone else out there have a suggestion...?

Todd

ok, saw it again tonight and still could not catch a glimpse of the object. there is a brief sound that comes across to me as a rattle (hence, my pills guess), but my friend (and viewing partner tonight) guessed razor, which makes sense.

I guess it could be a razor...it just doesn't click...a razor for a couple of days?...Ennis is hardly the metrosexual... his first get away with Jack in 4 years and hes gonna shave?....hmmm....this will be my quest...to find out what he takes...its got to mean something even if it was just direction, "go take something out of the medicine cabinet...being an actor, I cant imagine that with all that detail work, Heath would have planted something to inspire his character....any other guesses...?

Todd

[kumari]

QUESTION -

Not sure if this has already been answered, so I apologize for repeating the question.

In AP's story,  Ennis says - "It took me about a year to realize it, but I should have never let you out of my sight"

So he's acknowledging how much Jack meant to him.  Other than what the movie portrays as Ennis being totally conflicted about this weird feeling, "this thing" that grabs a hold of him and makes him so odd and always wondering what other people think of him.

It's just a subtle shift of perception that was left out of the movie that I think would have softened the blow of Ennis continually rebuffing Jack's ideas as absurd.

It was a risky choice to leave these things that Ennis says in the AP story out of the screenplay.
The Ennis of the film is even more locked down emotionally than the one in the story.
To continue in the logic of your point, I think that Ennis' behavior in the film is more consistent. For Ennis to say "Little darlin" and tell Jack about his vomiting after their separation would make his refusal to live with Jack even more perplexing. The way Ennis is written in the film, you can see how fear controls him, how he dares not even speak his love for Jack out loud in any way.

[phlmale]

QUESTION -

Not sure if this has already been answered, so I apologize for repeating the question.

In AP's story,  Ennis says - "It took me about a year to realize it, but I should have never let you out of my sight"

So he's acknowledging how much Jack meant to him.  Other than what the movie portrays as Ennis being totally conflicted about this weird feeling, "this thing" that grabs a hold of him and makes him so odd and always wondering what other people think of him.

It's just a subtle shift of perception that was left out of the movie that I think would have softened the blow of Ennis continually rebuffing Jack's ideas as absurd.

It was a risky choice to leave these things that Ennis says in the AP story out of the screenplay.
The Ennis of the film is even more locked down emotionally than the one in the story.
To continue in the logic of your point, I think that Ennis' behavior in the film is more consistent. For Ennis to say "Little darlin" and tell Jack about his vomiting after their separation would make his refusal to live with Jack even more perplexing. The way Ennis is written in the film, you can see how fear controls him, how he dares not even speak his love for Jack out loud in any way.

I think you are right on with your last post.  Clearly there had to be some interpretations made to take this very short story and expand it...I agree with the screeplay version regarding their reunion and the motel scene.......in AP's version of the motel scene, the dialogue didn't seem quite right to me given my own real life experiences, given Ennis' inability to deal with intense intimacy, with a relationship with another man etc..the screenplay version where he shrugs and gives a terse "I dunno" (or something to that effect) when asked by Jack if he thought they would get into all this after a 4 yr absence seem right on the money.  (I really have to hand it to Heath Ledger...to show so brillantly a man tormented and emotionally starved, with bottled up emotion, only to lose control and let these deep intimate emotions burst out so unexpectedly and almost violently..absolutely brillant).

On the other hand...the second tent scene...I loved it, I agree with the screenplay and director that this really helps the audience understand that the bond between them was not just animal lust...but the short story had set it up so that Ennis had a hard time being close to Jack face to face, at least early in the story, and this rings so true to me....to then be so face-to-face intimate so early is hard for me to comprehend given Ennis' whole unease with the situation...notice how many times one of them has their back to the other when together.

 

[909dot]

Well, Ive just gotten back from seeing the movie yet again...and I must say the Motel scene is one of the most romantic, sad, lonely , joyous things I  have ever seen...Ledger is untouchable in that scene....knocks me out

Todd

[ImEnnisShesJack]

Well, Ive just gotten back from seeing the movie yet again...and I must say the Motel scene is one of the most romantic, sad, lonely , joyous things I  have ever seen...Ledger is untouchable in that scene....knocks me out

Todd

Went last night (viewing #6 - *waving to Ron*)  and saw things that struck me differently...Ennis rubbing Jack's arm, even as he is saying, "there's nothing we CAN do about this."  All bottled up and stoic and pressed lips.  He's still reaching to Jack for comfort, contact.  There were tradeoffs made between the story and the screenplay.  Certain aspects were downplayed and/or omitted which would have clarified more of the intimacy betwen them, but other things were added to give the plot better direction.  There had to be interpretations and artistic license.

(Anyone else notice that Jake looks a little like Kevin Spacey in that scene???)

[sapstar]

I think you are right one with your last post.  Clearly there had to be some interpretations made to take this very short story and expand it...I agree with the screeplay version regarding their reunion and the motel scene.......in AP's version of the motel scene, the dialogue didn't seem quite right to me given my own real life experiences, given Ennis' inability to deal with intense intimacy, with a relationship with another man etc..the screenplay version where he shrugs and gives a terse "I dunno" (or something to that effect) when asked by Jack if he thought they would get into all this after a 4 yr absence seem right on the money.  (I really have to hand it to Heath Ledger...to show so brillantly a man tormented and emotionally starved, with bottled up emotion, only to lose control and let these deep intimate emotions burst out so unexpectedly and almost violently..absolutely brillant).

On the other hand...the second tent scene...I loved it, I agree with the screenplay and director that this really helps the audience understand that the bond between them was not just animal lust...but the short story had set it up so that Ennis had a hard time being close to Jack face to face, at least early in the story, and this rings so true to me....to then be so face-to-face intimate so early is hard for me to comprehend given Ennis' whole unease with the situation...notice how many times one of them has their back to the other when together.

 

My take on this is that Annie wanted us to feel that Ennis was really more confortable when he was around Jack, hence the intense kiss at the reunion, in broad daylight, 10 feet from his wife (in the story, it happens in his own staircase).   When you read a story and the "film" draws itself in your mind, this is easier to see.  But for the sake of the movie, where no matter how many details you put in, all of this gets thrown in the spectator's face, at a huge rythm, much of which the spectator won't get.  Having seen Ennis being so thorned since the beginning of the movie, that line, I agree, would maybe have been confusing.

[ImEnnisShesJack]

My take on this is that Annie wanted us to feel that Ennis was really more confortable when he was around Jack, hence the intense kiss at the reunion, in broad daylight, 10 feet from his wife (in the story, it happens in his own staircase).   

Well put.  I hadn't seen it quite that way, but you are right.  Only when he was with Jack could Ennis be truly comfortably unconsciously himself.

[909dot]

Well, Ive just gotten back from seeing the movie yet again...and I must say the Motel scene is one of the most romantic, sad, lonely , joyous things I  have ever seen...Ledger is untouchable in that scene....knocks me out

Todd

Went last night (viewing #6 - *waving to Ron*)  and saw things that struck me differently...Ennis rubbing Jack's arm, even as he is saying, "there's nothing we CAN do about this."  All bottled up and stoic and pressed lips.  He's still reaching to Jack for comfort, contact.  There were tradeoffs made between the story and the screenplay.  Certain aspects were downplayed and/or omitted which would have clarified more of the intimacy betwen them, but other things were added to give the plot better direction.  There had to be interpretations and artistic license.

(Anyone else notice that Jake looks a little like Kevin Spacey in that scene???)

I think you may be as pleasantly obsessed as I am ; Every time I go, new things appearer...(and Ive been a lot)... this last time I noticed that at the Reunion, after Alma sees them on the stair case, Ennis and Jack come up the stairs and into the room, right before Ennis enters you can see him wiping his mouth to erase any trace of Jack...and the whole time they stand in the door way, Ennis cant take his eyes off Jack...and the way Ennis nuzzles Jack and rubs his forhead to his face before they part to go up to Alma...sigh....I'm just a gushy romantic I guess....I also agree with some of the post's that there should have been more physicality between them (like in the book) but showing these moments when everything goes gloriously and magically right for the both of them, I think, makes the story of "what could have been" more powerful...


Todd

[ImEnnisShesJack]

I think you may be as pleasantly obsessed as I am ; Every time I go, new things appearer...(and Ive been a lot)... this last time I noticed that at the Reunion, after Alma sees them on the stair case, Ennis and Jack come up the stairs and into the room, right before Ennis enters you can see him wiping his mouth to erase any trace of Jack...and the whole time they stand in the door way, Ennis cant take his eyes off Jack...and the way Ennis nuzzles Jack and rubs his forhead to his face before they part to go up to Alma...sigh....I'm just a gushy romantic I guess....I also agree with some of the post's that there should have been more physicality between them (like in the book) but showing these moments when everything goes gloriously and magically right for the both of them, I think, makes the story of "what could have been" more powerful...

I'm barrelling into "obsessed" with every post.  And yes, those little exchanges reduce me to mush, the problem is, the average moviegoer isn't going to see those unless they are watching the movie with a fine-toothed comb.  There is such amazing chemistry and tenderness between Jack and Ennis when they are together - look that the reunion scene after the hug, just before Ennis pushes Jack against the wall...the way Jack fixates on Ennis' mouth and suddenly seems lost!  Or the way Ennis flips Jack's hat off right before he hits the wall and the "right key turns the lock tumblers"...(if you ever impulsively kissed someone wearing a baseball or cowboy hat - the brim can be painful.)  I love it that Ennis had the foresight to knock that damn hatbrim outta the way...no obstructions.  But I've got eight different .gif files saved to my computer from this scene alone (and I watch them frame by frame when I can)...I've analyzed the hell out of this movie.

"Normal" people are going to miss a lot of the imagery.

[zach]

The scene where Alma meets Jack is so interesting because there are so many emotions flying around. 

Ennis looks embarassed and joyful at the same time and I thought that it was realistic that he wiped his mouth on his sleeve, as if to transition from Jack and the kiss to Alma.