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Author Topic: The Reunion  (Read 1034371 times)

Offline aintnoreins

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Re: Scene: The Reunion
« Reply #765 on: March 22, 2006, 08:58:15 PM »
The most unsatisfying moment for me in the film is when Jack asks Ennis, in the motel, "what about you?" he wants to know did Ennis think they would get into it again, and Ennis answers in the abstract.  I know that has been treated in previous posts but it is ultimately unsatisfying to me.  I didn't know where in the hell you was-- I never should have let you out of my sights -- sure as hell seem in one piece to me -- or tell Jack about how he suffered dry heaves when they parted, all in the story but not the film.  Some hint of it would have been good there.  OK, I accept it anyway, because I have both, the film and the story. 

I totally agree. Lee and his screenwriters decided that they wanted to intensify Ennis' repression and self-loathing.

That and I think, too, to emphasize Jack's intense faith in their relationship... for him to stay on Ennis' short leash all of those years with hardly a word from Ennis about the power of their love says so much. It's as though Jack believed that his love for Ennis could prevail over Ennis' own self-hatred (which occasionally came out as anger towards Jack, and Jack took this in stride). I do think it made them both a bit more complex in a way that came across extraordinarily well on film. It's so amazing to see how these nuances are negotiated differently in the book and on film, and yet each is so cohesive and powerful in its own way...
"and it's only doubts that we're counting on fingers broken long ago..."

Offline aintnoreins

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Re: Scene: The Reunion
« Reply #766 on: March 22, 2006, 08:59:26 PM »
Okay, so in my fifth viewing tonight, I realized that right after the intense kissing part of the reunion, Ennis does say something to Jack as he nuzzles his head ever so slightly before they head inside to Alma.
Does anyone here have any guesses as to what he says? I'd like to think it's our ever-elusve "lil darlin," but it seemed too short for that. Almost monosyllabic. (Though I guess even Ennis' three-syllable words come out in a single syllable most of the time...)
I always hear "later" but others have heard "come 'ere."  Either works in the scene.

iiiinteresting. I thought maybe I'd heard "c'mon," but I wasn't sure. thanks for the input :)
"and it's only doubts that we're counting on fingers broken long ago..."

Offline City Girl

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Re: Scene: The Reunion
« Reply #767 on: March 22, 2006, 11:20:07 PM »
But, honestly, I think it goes a little deeper than that: if you buy the concept that these two souls fell in love - purely and absolutely - then the sex is a natural byproduct of that attachment. AND, I think women like to see love - so what if it's two beautiful men, or women or the traditional couple - real passionate love is a turn on.

Honestly, watching two women making love never turned me on. What is a bit...how would I say.....scaring? :o is that actually Ennis' and Jake's sex scenes turn me on as no other hetero sex scene did......I have to rewatch the reunion kiss and the SNIT at least once a day. I know this is against doctor's order, but I have to survive.... ;D

Ditto!  A couple of women?  *Snore*  And I am yet to find an example of when it didn't seem gratuitous.  But, Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, Heath and Jake here were nothing short of staggering together.

As for continious loop, I have petitioned my gym to place a continious loop of this scene on the little TV screens attached to the elliptical traners.  I am convinced that if they did so I would be down to a size 2 in no time.
"He would have given anything. Anything. His new truck. His horses. Whole years of his life. Just to be able to stay right where he was in this threadbare little bedroom with its fake wood paneling, its cracked mirror, the bits of hay and horse shit tramped in on Ennis’s boots" Casual Match frayach

Offline deevah2

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Re: Scene: The Reunion
« Reply #768 on: March 23, 2006, 12:44:52 AM »
.-  they should hand out the reunion scene to men everywhere and tell them to learn from it. If some man ever kissed me like that I would worship him forever....


that's  exactly what I told a friend!! Although many including my friend focus on the "gay" factor this story is about LOVE. If some man kissed me like that,    I could (at least for a time  :) easily see myself being a female Jack-coming back year after year just to get some (all puns intended )!  OMG the Passion in that scene!!! No words needed-every fiber of their bodies seem to light up the screen with realism. 

Offline VICKI

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Re: Scene: The Reunion
« Reply #769 on: March 23, 2006, 05:34:04 AM »
When Ennis and Jack are reunited after 4 years, the same reaction happened in the cinema both times I saw the film.  The audience erupted in laughter.  I couldn't believe that it happened twice at exactly the same moment.  As soon as they start passionately kissing, eveyone laughs and when Alma looks out from the door, the laughter got louder.  I felt like I was watching some comedy.  I had a theory that maybe they were laughing through embarassment, but whatever the reason, it totally ruined that part for me and now I can't wait to get the DVD and watch it in peace with no annoying laughter intruding upon this scene.  Also, both times, the audience laughed when Joe Agguire spotted Ennis and Jack larking around with their shirts off on Brokeback Mountain.  I didn't think that was meant to be funny and it really annoyed me that some people are so immature.
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Offline moonbeam

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Re: Scene: The Reunion
« Reply #770 on: March 23, 2006, 05:36:09 AM »
Okay, so in my fifth viewing tonight, I realized that right after the intense kissing part of the reunion, Ennis does say something to Jack as he nuzzles his head ever so slightly before they head inside to Alma.

Does anyone here have any guesses as to what he says? I'd like to think it's our ever-elusve "lil darlin," but it seemed too short for that. Almost monosyllabic. (Though I guess even Ennis' three-syllable words come out in a single syllable most of the time...)



ok, some may call me crazy, but this is what I heard... first, as they are trying to break apart I hear Ennis saying 'later' and then I hear him say 'ok' and THEN I hear him say 'c'mere'...  listen closely.. I swear this is what he says... :)
"This would be alright. Jack would answer, had to answer"

Offline ellye

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Re: Scene: The Reunion
« Reply #771 on: March 23, 2006, 06:14:12 AM »
Okay, so in my fifth viewing tonight, I realized that right after the intense kissing part of the reunion, Ennis does say something to Jack as he nuzzles his head ever so slightly before they head inside to Alma.

Does anyone here have any guesses as to what he says? I'd like to think it's our ever-elusve "lil darlin," but it seemed too short for that. Almost monosyllabic. (Though I guess even Ennis' three-syllable words come out in a single syllable most of the time...)



Do you mean when he says 'later'? Jack doesn't want to stop what they're doing, but Ennis pulls his hands down, takes his face in his hands, and says 'later' before the nuzzle and before he pulls himself away!
He's telling Jack they're continue this 'later'. I actually heard that the first time I saw the scene.

Offline moonbeam

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Re: Scene: The Reunion
« Reply #772 on: March 23, 2006, 06:18:49 AM »
Okay, so in my fifth viewing tonight, I realized that right after the intense kissing part of the reunion, Ennis does say something to Jack as he nuzzles his head ever so slightly before they head inside to Alma.

Does anyone here have any guesses as to what he says? I'd like to think it's our ever-elusve "lil darlin," but it seemed too short for that. Almost monosyllabic. (Though I guess even Ennis' three-syllable words come out in a single syllable most of the time...)



YES! The 'later' is totally there! I hear it everytime I watch it. Also... I didn't pick up on this the first few times but he says 'ok?' and 'c'mere'...  I have to admit that it's hard to listen closely to this scene when all you want is to watch it closely.. for the 100th time..  ok, I am a little obsessed... ;)
Do you mean when he says 'later'? Jack doesn't want to stop what they're doing, but Ennis pulls his hands down, takes his face in his hands, and says 'later' before the nuzzle and before he pulls himself away!
He's telling Jack they're continue this 'later'. I actually heard that the first time I saw the scene.
"This would be alright. Jack would answer, had to answer"

Offline ellye

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Re: Scene: The Reunion
« Reply #773 on: March 23, 2006, 06:20:14 AM »
Okay, so in my fifth viewing tonight, I realized that right after the intense kissing part of the reunion, Ennis does say something to Jack as he nuzzles his head ever so slightly before they head inside to Alma.
Does anyone here have any guesses as to what he says? I'd like to think it's our ever-elusve "lil darlin," but it seemed too short for that. Almost monosyllabic. (Though I guess even Ennis' three-syllable words come out in a single syllable most of the time...)
I always hear "later" but others have heard "come 'ere."  Either works in the scene.

Ennis says both. After the hug, as he takes hold of Jack to back him up to the wall, he says "c'm'ere" and he says "later" before they tear themselves apart to go up the stairs.

On the loud clip on youtube it sounds like Ennis says something before they part, as well. It's hard to tell because of the music playing, but it sounds somethign like "Come here now" - which is Ennis telling Jack they have to pull themselves together, act normal, and go and see Alma!  ;D

Offline danac

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Re: Scene: The Reunion
« Reply #774 on: March 23, 2006, 06:46:30 AM »


I think the reason "lil darlin" was left out was because there was no way to relate the history of it, as A.Proulx did in the story.   "Ennis, never big on endearments, said what he sometimes said to his horses and daughters, Little darlin."  In the film that would have had to come out of nowhere, so they opted to keep Ennis's character more clearcut.

The most unsatisfying moment for me in the film is when Jack asks Ennis, in the motel, "what about you?" he wants to know did Ennis think they would get into it again, and Ennis answers in the abstract.  I know that has been treated in previous posts but it is ultimately unsatisfying to me.  I didn't know where in the hell you was-- I never should have let you out of my sights -- sure as hell seem in one piece to me -- or tell Jack about how he suffered dry heaves when they parted, all in the story but not the film.  Some hint of it would have been good there.  OK, I accept it anyway, because I have both, the film and the story. 
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Oh, me , too...you want to hear him tell Jack that he was ill that he let him get away!!! Or something....but instead Ennis/Heath quite eloquently just pulls Jack's arm a little closer. Not words..but a loud message just the same.
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Offline David G

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Re: Scene: The Reunion
« Reply #775 on: March 23, 2006, 07:03:31 AM »
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The most unsatisfying moment for me in the film is when Jack asks Ennis, in the motel, "what about you?" he wants to know did Ennis think they would get into it again, and Ennis answers in the abstract.  I know that has been treated in previous posts but it is ultimately unsatisfying to me. 

The Motel scene in the film and the short story are problematic because they differ on key points.

In the story, Ennis tells Jack he's been thinking about him and masturbating thinking about him. Ennis asks, "You do it with other guys? (pause) Jack?"

Jack is hesitant to answer because Ennis has just told him how faithful and true he has been to their relationship. Jack, on the other hand, has been "riding more than bulls" (doing it with other men) and "not rolling his own" (not satisfied with masturbating thinking of Ennis).

In the film, Jack asks Ennis what he thinks about their relationship and Ennis very reluctant to admit to missing or caring for Jack. It's the complete opposite of what is going on in the short story where Ennis is practically bragging about his sexual feelings for Jack.

It's tough reconciling the film and the short story.

Offline Ellen (tellyouwhat)

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Re: Scene: The Reunion
« Reply #776 on: March 23, 2006, 07:15:07 AM »


It's tough reconciling the film and the short story.
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I'm exceedingly grateful we have both.  The biggest difference is the motel scene, acknowledged by Annie Proulx, also she said the arc of a film is different than a short story so they chose to do some things different.  Speaking of Reunion/Motel--

There have been some posts speculating what actually happened in the motel (who bottomed, etc) Am I just naive or ignorant of these details (being a straight woman) to think that by the time they slow down to talk, hours have passed.  The story says the room smelled of semen, whiskey, sweat, on and on --  if that were a hetero encounter there would have been many positions tried, one satisfying the other, a few different ways.  Is that not possible?  Also, I got the feeling, both in the film and the story, that Ennis let go of all his inhibitions when he was alone with Jack, starting back on the mountain, so I don't expect he analyzed too much whether he gave anything up in either position, I think he'd have wanted to do that for Jack, if Jack wanted it.  Just as long as Jack stayed on that short leash, Ennis dominated that way.  Anybody?
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Offline Ellen (tellyouwhat)

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Re: Scene: The Reunion
« Reply #777 on: March 23, 2006, 07:22:06 AM »
When Ennis and Jack are reunited after 4 years, the same reaction happened in the cinema both times I saw the film.  The audience erupted in laughter.  I couldn't believe that it happened twice at exactly the same moment.  As soon as they start passionately kissing, eveyone laughs and when Alma looks out from the door, the laughter got louder.  I felt like I was watching some comedy.  I had a theory that maybe they were laughing through embarassment, but whatever the reason, it totally ruined that part for me and now I can't wait to get the DVD and watch it in peace with no annoying laughter intruding upon this scene.  Also, both times, the audience laughed when Joe Agguire spotted Ennis and Jack larking around with their shirts off on Brokeback Mountain.  I didn't think that was meant to be funny and it really annoyed me that some people are so immature.



Vicki, since I had to work up courage to see this movie (spending a few weeks getting used to the ending in the story) I began my multiple treks to the theatre the week after the Academy Awards.  At most there were fifteen people in the theatre  on my second viewing.  I have never heard anyone laugh at the Reunion scene (I guess I'm lucky) but I heard many gasps when Ennis broke into the kiss.  That was exceedingly satisfying.  I share it with you so you know that different reaction has been out there.
sometimes I think life is just a rodeo the trick is to ride and make it 'til the bell --john fogerty

Offline David G

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Re: Scene: The Reunion
« Reply #778 on: March 23, 2006, 07:23:28 AM »
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There have been some posts speculating what actually happened in the motel (who bottomed, etc) Am I just naive or ignorant of these details (being a straight woman) to think that by the time they slow down to talk, hours have passed.  The story says the room smelled of semen, whiskey, sweat, on and on --  if that were a hetero encounter there would have been many positions tried, one satisfying the other, a few different ways.  Is that not possible?  Also, I got the feeling, both in the film and the story, that Ennis let go of all his inhibitions when he was alone with Jack, starting back on the mountain, so I don't expect he analyzed too much whether he gave anything up in either position, I think he'd have wanted to do that for Jack, if Jack wanted it.  Just as long as Jack stayed on that short leash, Ennis dominated that way.  Anybody?

When I lived in Miami and I delt with the Cuban community, it was a very common to feel that a relationship between two men was ok so long as you were the "top".

Many families would accept their sons gay lifestyle so long as they knew he was "the man" in the relationship". Likewise, families would reject a son who was the bottom.

While in most real life gay relationships, there is rarely a strict top and bottom, it is my belief that the character of Ennis we are given in the film could have found it very easy to convince himself that he wasn't queer because he was the top.

Offline David G

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Re: Scene: The Reunion
« Reply #779 on: March 23, 2006, 07:26:29 AM »
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I have never heard anyone laugh at the Reunion scene (I guess I'm lucky) but I heard many gasps when Ennis broke into the kiss.  That was exceedingly satisfying.  I share it with you so you know that different reaction has been out there.

Heath Ledger says he laughed at that scene:

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/profile/story/9448111/heath_ledger_lonesome_cowboy?rnd=1143123097140&has-player=true&version=6.0.12.1212

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"Yeah," he [Heath Ledger] says. "Her poor character. Michelle played it so well -- just that look on her face." He shrugs. "Every time I see it, I can't help but laugh."