LGBTQ related news and issues

[michaelflanagansf]

What is Saint-era music? Never heard of that one.

The Saint was a disco in New York:

http://www.saintdisco.com/

[BayCityJohn]

What is Saint-era music? Never heard of that one.

Michael is correct.  I spent a lot of time at the Saint in it's latter days.

[milomorris]

Saint was an absolutely gargantuan nightclub. And there was plenty of sex going on in the bleachers above the upstairs dance floor.

[milomorris]

Straight kids have been doing this for years, calling them "Raves".  Never been to a "rave", but my understanding is it's basically the same as a "CP", except less organized.  Liqour, drugs, sex, all happen at "raves".

That's true. And raves are pretty much gone too. Besides, they were too hard to find in the first place, and often being held somewhere illegal, filthy, and/or hazardous (abandonded warehouses, etc.) 

[ChrisW]

What I find refreshing about this article is that young homo’s aren’t focusing on hot bodies, sex, and a young life of one-night stands. The fact lots of guys are meeting on-line, then going out says much. They actually have conversation before they fuck if they fuck. IMO, that is great. A much better foundation to meet and get to know another guy and perhaps forge a loving monogamous relationship--That which so many mainstream ‘straights’ don’t see in what media portrays us and how, in some cases, we portray ourselves.

enjoyed the article. The last paragraph, however (bolded above) was like taking two steps forward and one step back. I think Lehman’s insistence we keep our “subculture going, because it’s important we keep what makes us unique and different” is flying in the face of young homo guys today. They don’t think they are unique. They’re just like everyone else except they prefer the arms of another man. It’s called assimilating into the mainstream. And they are comfortably doing so without the gay culture-ghetto. Isn’t that what the goal has been about all these years? Lehman’s last line, “But do they know how hard we worked for this?” My question is for what? What did Circuit parties give us? Maybe the two decades of rampant sex, drugs, and lonely loathsome guys who are pushing middle 40’s? Perhaps this scares the hell out of some of these young men. I say good.

Brad

- Brad, this fits pretty much exactly with what I see here in the UK. I say good, too. Thanks for this, it's probably an international trend. Boring,maybe - but indeed, it's what the fight was about. I could complain about my workload, but I won't, women fought for the right to be taken seriously at work! It's similar.

[milomorris]

- Brad, this fits pretty much exactly with what I see here in the UK. I say good, too. Thanks for this, it's probably an international trend. Boring,maybe - but indeed, it's what the fight was about. I could complain about my workload, but I won't, women fought for the right to be taken seriously at work! It's similar.

Yes, thank you, Brad. This is a very telling article. And, montezumae,  what you say about this trend being similar across the pond indicates to me that it is a generational rather than national trend. It has been said that Generation Y are in many ways the "new traditionalists." They seek a connection to their Mature Generation grand-parents. They seek to avoid the rebelliousness of their Baby Boomer parents, and the excesses of their Generation X cousins. There was a PBS documentary on them a couple of weeks ago. It featured among others a 20-something guy who decided to literally stay on the farm in Iowa (?) and improve many of its processes with state of the art technology. It also featured a group of GLBT and straight Christian evangelists (notice the small "e")who tour the US in a bus.

Milo

[michaelflanagansf]

Well this baby boomer was never particularly interested in Circuit Parties - they seemed to be so much of the same sort of excessive behavior that you see going on at places like Mardi Gras, Spring Break, Freaknic, etc.  Add to this that it was the sort of 'exclusive' behavior that you see people engaging in at clubs in New York and L.A. and it was just not the group of people I wanted to hang around.  I did know people who tried to provide AIDS education for people at these events, however (a good idea - no matter how dumb they act, they don't deserve to get sick or die - much like people who drink too much at various festivals should be stopped from driving drunk).  It just never seemed like much fun to me.

[ChrisW]

Hello Milo and Michael,
Thanks for these comments - speaking as a baby boomer - I'd like to be able to say that I know all about these Clinton-like excesses, but of course I don't.
the observations are still valid, though.
My kids are - I think - this 'Generation Y'. One of my son's clear characteristics is what a home-bird he is. He has never forgotten his parents dragging him round the US at an early age, and doesn't travel much. I and my hubby still think travelling is a lot of fun. He went to one gay pride thing and it was all a bit too overt for him. He's mainstream in just the way Brad describes. No big deal. And that's just what our generation were fighting for all along.
In 1974 I contributed a fiver (quite a lot of money then) to David Norris's fighting fund in Dublin. He wanted to take his case for equal rights for gays (or whatever it was then) to the European Court of Human Rights. He famously won his case, and now young gay people in Ireland doubtless do not appreciate just how much courage that took.
And, as a woman, I can see the same is true for me. I was the generation that was able to take advantage of the rights our ancestors fought so hard for. Never doubt that I appreciate that. There may have been some female subculture to compare with the gay subculture, but if there was, I don't miss it.
Happy weekend folks!

[michaelflanagansf]

Just a quick comment about dance clubs vs. circuit parties - I did (and still sometimes do) go to dance clubs.  The two are not necessarily equivalent - you can go to dance clubs to dance.

And, btw, this is not generational - kids are still lined up outside the dance clubs (both straight and gay) in the city every weekend.  Some people like them, some don't.

Two of my absolute favorites were 'The World' which was on the lower East Side of NYC (in Alphabet City) in the late 80s/Early 90s - and a large one in Key West (which I've forgotten the name of) that burned in the mid-90s.  They were both lots of fun.

[jstephens9]

I think the straight co-worker needs to get over himself. Sometimes a drink is just a drink for crissake. And if the guy feels uncomfortable because he's afraid to be seen out socially with the gay guy 'cuz people will think he's gay too...well then he really has security issues.

Milo

Why is it, or so it seems to me, that so many straight guys seem obsessed with the idea that some gay guy is dying to get into their pants? Geez, most of 'em I wouldn't go near. ... 

Are they that full of themselves?  Or are they afraid they might like it? 

Jeff, you pose a question I have always wondered about myself. For some reason it does seem that if a straight guy finds out another guy is gay that means automatically that they are in danger of attack. It doesn't matter what they look or act like they seem to feel that a guy being gay means they are after every male on the planet. And you are right, so often these are straight guys I certainly would never be interested in. Wonder if these same guys think that a straight girl is automatically after them?

[fritzkep]

Jeff, you pose a question I have always wondered about myself. For some reason it does seem that if a straight guy finds out another guy is gay that means automatically that they are in danger of attack. It doesn't matter what they look or act like they seem to feel that a guy being gay means they are after every male on the planet. And you are right, so often these are straight guys I certainly would never be interested in. Wonder if these same guys think that a straight girl is automatically after them?

Only in their dreams.

[jstephens9]

Maybe the gay guy being attracted to them is only in their dreams too 

[michaelflanagansf]

Wonder if these same guys think that a straight girl is automatically after them?

Only in their dreams.

Actually I think it's more complex than that.  I was talking with one of my straight (male) friends today and we were talking about pressures to be in a couple.  He said something to the effect of 'and you aren't dealing with women - there is a whole other set of pressures related to having kids and getting married.'  So I think that many of these guys do think women are after them - to settle down, to get married and to have kids.  It's a different kind of being 'after' someone - but I think it's a common fear among (some) straight men.

[Nikki]

Wonder if these same guys think that a straight girl is automatically after them?

Only in their dreams.

Actually I think it's more complex than that.  I was talking with one of my straight (male) friends today and we were talking about pressures to be in a couple.  He said something to the effect of 'and you aren't dealing with women - there is a whole other set of pressures related to having kids and getting married.'  So I think that many of these guys do think women are after them - to settle down, to get married and to have kids.  It's a different kind of being 'after' someone - but I think it's a common fear among (some) straight men.

As a straight woman, I agree, Michael.  Not only when straight men are single are they pressured -- some women who have been through one or two marriages are still looking and are after men.  I've heard comments from straight women who can't imagine living without a man -- oh the horror!! So there is pressure at both ends of the rainbow! LOL  Of course, there are straight men who have been through several marriages who are looking as well -- the older some people get the more foolish they are regarding relationships IMO. They don't call bars "meat markets"  for nothing!!

[jstephens9]

Michael and Nikki, you definitely have a point here and one that I did not consider. Sometimes it is way too easy to not recognize the strains and feelings of the other side. Marriage and family, yes those are two very big things that many of us, including me, have never had the experience of. There is quite a bit involved there. And the pressure on straight guys from many women to become involved in this is a very real thing. I can think of someone from BBM who was putting the pressure on Ennis. Remember Cassie  Beyond this conversation comes the idea that many times we do not think of the additional things and pressures that are involved in someone else's lifestyle. Being gay, being straight, being Bi, etc, all have pressures. It is important in my estimation that we seek to realize that and not see everything in black and white. The old saying along with the old song "Walk A Mile In My Shoes" comes to mind. Thanks to the both of you to make me think more deeply about this.

Jack