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Author Topic: Is society really as accepting as it claims?  (Read 467173 times)

Offline killersmom

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Re: Is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #3135 on: January 04, 2020, 02:42:32 PM »
United Methodist Church Announces Plan to Split Over Same-Sex Marriage

Under an agreement to be voted on in May, a new “traditionalist Methodist” denomination would continue to ban same-sex marriage and gay and lesbian clergy.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/03/us/methodist-split-gay-marriage.html

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Offline tfferg

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Re: Is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #3136 on: January 15, 2020, 11:43:49 PM »
A few days ago, University of Queensland Liberal National Club members barged into a Drag Queen Story Time for children at a Brisbane City Council local library to oppose "the sexualisation of children", chanting "Drag queens are not for kids". Drag Queen Story Times at public libraries in Brisbane are an initiative of Rainbow Families Queensland. There have been no incidents of harassment at previous Drag Queen Story Times in Brisbane.

Children were asking what was happening and crying, parents videoed the confrontation and called the police. Videos went viral and led to a storm of criticism and controversy on social media, including by LNP politicians.

The UQLNC was disaffiliated by the conservative Liberal National Party (which is in power in the Federal government) in December.

The leader of the UQLNC was a 21-year old out gay student, Wilson Gavin. He was a conservative traditionalist who campaigned against same-sex marriage during the plebiscite in 2017. His family has stated he was not "troubled" as some commentators claimed.

The day after the incident, he died at a Brisbane railway station.

(I see it was reported in the Washington Post on January 14.)
« Last Edit: January 15, 2020, 11:57:29 PM by tfferg »

Offline Elisiv05

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Re: Is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #3137 on: January 16, 2020, 03:00:48 PM »
Wilson Gavin seems to be an extreme case of internalized homophobia. I' ve read a couple of articles about him. The case is  complicated on political, religious and personal level and raises many questions. Most interesting, I think, is that it to me clearly points to a hierarchic thinking  in the LGBTQ-community - probably human from a psychological point of view, but very discriminating to those affected by it. Feel free to correct me, Tony, if you believe I've interpreted this story wrongly.
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Offline brian

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Re: Is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #3138 on: January 16, 2020, 03:22:23 PM »
Back in the early 1980's, when I was out while teaching in a Senior Catholic High School, I use to get a lot of ribbing from my students but most was fairly good natured. One particular student was very nasty and I was surprised but sad a few years later to learn he had died from AIDS. I have met other students from that time later who were gay but just kept quiet at the time which is understandable. Some have since thanked me as my openness made it easier for them even if they did not come out to me at the time. Sadly some of our worst enemies from the times of gay struggle for acceptance have been from within our own ranks. I find it harder to accept in this day and age.

Offline brian

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Re: Is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #3139 on: January 16, 2020, 03:35:28 PM »
The other night on TV I was watching a repeat of 'Bondi Rescue'. At this time of year TV programming is horrible during the summer holiday period. Tony will know it, it follows the activities of Life Guards on Sydney's most famous beach. One I rarely visited when young, it is mainly for tourists.
It described how one trainee life guard had to resign and return to his home further up the coast to care for his terminally ill father. Almost incidentally, it showed him with and introduced his 'male' partner. When I was young, that would have been unthinkable, and sometimes I feel a little bitter. When I was that age and regularly surfing, my homosexual feelings had to be very much hidden and the only 'gays' in the news were on their way to prison. The police commissioner of the time declared homosexuals were “the greatest social menace to Australia” and demanded his officers see that  plenty of bodies were dragged before the court each morning.

Offline CellarDweller115

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Re: Is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #3140 on: January 16, 2020, 04:58:43 PM »
A few days ago, University of Queensland Liberal National Club members barged into a Drag Queen Story Time for children at a Brisbane City Council local library to oppose "the sexualisation of children", chanting "Drag queens are not for kids". Drag Queen Story Times at public libraries in Brisbane are an initiative of Rainbow Families Queensland. There have been no incidents of harassment at previous Drag Queen Story Times in Brisbane.

Children were asking what was happening and crying, parents videoed the confrontation and called the police. Videos went viral and led to a storm of criticism and controversy on social media, including by LNP politicians.

The UQLNC was disaffiliated by the conservative Liberal National Party (which is in power in the Federal government) in December.

The leader of the UQLNC was a 21-year old out gay student, Wilson Gavin. He was a conservative traditionalist who campaigned against same-sex marriage during the plebiscite in 2017. His family has stated he was not "troubled" as some commentators claimed.

The day after the incident, he died at a Brisbane railway station.

(I see it was reported in the Washington Post on January 14.)


Drag Queen Story Time events seem to be turning up all over the place.  Even the libraries in my town have done it.  I'll  have to look at this story, his family says he's not troubled, but it seems like he was.

Offline tfferg

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Re: Is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #3141 on: January 16, 2020, 06:51:03 PM »
Wilson Gavin seems to be an extreme case of internalized homophobia. I' ve read a couple of articles about him. The case is  complicated on political, religious and personal level and raises many questions. Most interesting, I think, is that it to me clearly points to a hierarchic thinking  in the LGBTQ-community - probably human from a psychological point of view, but very discriminating to those affected by it. Feel free to correct me, Tony, if you believe I've interpreted this story wrongly.

I don't know enough about the man to judge, Elisa.

I know that many gay men are socially and politically conservative.

Apparently, Wilson Gavin campaigned against same-sex marriage because of his concern for children and fear that it would lead to the breakdown of the family. Did he reject or not know of the evidence that children of same-sex parents do just as well as children of straight, married parents ?

As for concerns about the sexualisation of children, I think mainstream society and culture bears far more responsibility for it than queer people, especially the advertising industry and popular culture in Western countries.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2020, 08:10:58 PM by tfferg »

Offline fritzkep

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Re: Is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #3142 on: January 16, 2020, 07:02:57 PM »
It must be terrible to have internalized all the bad things he had heard about gay people all his life.

I guess I'm lucky in the sense that I heard those things and was just puzzled, because I wasn't like that at all.

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Offline tfferg

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Re: Is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #3143 on: January 16, 2020, 10:57:15 PM »
The Melbourne Midsumma Festival begins on Sunday. Organisers and performers are reviewing security in the light of the events in Sydney.  The program includes Kid-aoke by Circus Oz at the Melba Spiegeltent, Once Upon a Drag Storytime and Rainbow Family Storytime in different suburban venues.

Offline Lyle (Mooska)

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Re: Is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #3144 on: January 17, 2020, 10:34:17 AM »
Drag Queen Story Time events seem to be turning up all over the place.

I've noticed they have them at the West Hollywood Library...at !east during Pride month.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #3145 on: January 17, 2020, 12:40:40 PM »
Drag Queen Story Time events seem to be turning up all over the place.

I've noticed they have them at the West Hollywood Library...at !east during Pride month.

I'll stick my neck out and say that on the face of it, I don't like the idea of Drag Queen Story Time, but I also have questions/caveats about it (in no particular order). Maybe it depends on the drag queen herself? Most I've seen look, in my opinion, absolutely frightful in their make-up. I could see how they might frighten children. On the other hand, if you had someone dressed and made up as conservatively as June Cleaver (complete with pearls), then maybe that's not a problem? And then again I can see how children could be confused--and I wouldn't want to be the parent who had to answer a child's questions about this person who read a story to the group of kids.

Offline killersmom

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Re: Is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #3146 on: January 17, 2020, 02:50:32 PM »
I've noticed they have them at the West Hollywood Library...at !east during Pride month.


Believe it or not, Lyle, there have been several Drag Queen Storytime at some of the public libraries here in Albuquerque, and they have been well received and well attended.
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Offline killersmom

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Re: Is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #3147 on: January 17, 2020, 03:17:07 PM »
I'll stick my neck out and say that on the face of it, I don't like the idea of Drag Queen Story Time, but I also have questions/caveats about it (in no particular order). Maybe it depends on the drag queen herself? Most I've seen look, in my opinion, absolutely frightful in their make-up. I could see how they might frighten children. On the other hand, if you had someone dressed and made up as conservatively as June Cleaver (complete with pearls), then maybe that's not a problem? And then again I can see how children could be confused--and I wouldn't want to be the parent who had to answer a child's questions about this person who read a story to the group of kids.

Jeff, being the mother of two boys and grandmother of younger children, the time to introduce children to the differences in people is at a young age, the age group of children who attend storytimes.

There is an age when small children are afraid of Santa and the Easter Bunny, between 18 months to 3 years, give or take. Some storytimes are geared to the younger kids, but most are geared to the kids who are past being afraid of differences. If parents have either an objection to the presenter of storytime, or they think their child will have a problem, they shouldn't attend with their child.

You'd be surprised though how easily young children just accept others who don't look quite like themselves. Young children have not formed prejudices yet. It's only when they get older and they hear their parent's prejudices, that sometimes they will form theses same ones. Young children are a delight in the acceptance of others, no matter what color or how they dress.

I had several gay friends when the boys were growing up and they were invited into our home by both Rick and I, so my boys don't think of gay or straight. In fact both boys have gay friends.

So unless the very young children who may not have been socialized much or are too young to be at an older child geared storytime, shouldn't be there anyway, no matter who is presenting. My granddaughter is in kindergarten, and this far into the school year, the children who weren't socialized before they started kindergarten still have problems separating from their parents in the morning at drop off. One child was even withdrawn from school after about two weeks because they just couldn't take being separated from their mother.

To me it is very important as a mother and grandmother to socialize your kids and to introduce and and show acceptance of everyone. Luckily my son and DIL feel the same.
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Offline gattaca

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Re: Is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #3148 on: January 17, 2020, 05:06:06 PM »
^^^  :)

Offline tfferg

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Re: Is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #3149 on: January 17, 2020, 06:32:04 PM »
Although people think clowns are suitable for entertaining little children, some kids are afraid of them.

I imagine families who take their children to Drag Queen Story Times would be open-minded people. Their children might be growing up in an atmosphere of acceptance of diversity.

I got the impression that the children who were confused and frightened at the Brisbane Square Library were upset by the protesters and the confrontation, not by the drag queen readers.