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Author Topic: Is society really as accepting as it claims?  (Read 472289 times)

Offline gattaca

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Re: Is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #3165 on: June 15, 2020, 01:55:37 PM »
^^^^ Yeap.  I nearly fell outta my chair when that flashed and 6-3 and not even a 5-4.  All I can be thinking is those damn conservative "Bible Thumpers" who "vetted the SCOTUS nomination short list for TOM" must be completely short circuiting and their brains frying.   I think the WH is also stunned that so far as of about 15:30 - no comment.   Gotta love it for many reasons!  That SOB and his piss-ant cabinet have done everything they could to roll back protections for LGBTQ, the environment and anything they could to undo progress and give businesses the upper hand in all matters.   I am relieved that SCOTUS grew some balls and for once did something for the real minority.   The only way this could have been more of a rebuke to TOM and GOP is if it has been 9-0.  ;)  V> 

Offline killersmom

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Re: Is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #3166 on: June 15, 2020, 05:53:48 PM »
^^^^ Yeap.  I nearly fell outta my chair when that flashed and 6-3 and not even a 5-4.  All I can be thinking is those damn conservative "Bible Thumpers" who "vetted the SCOTUS nomination short list for TOM" must be completely short circuiting and their brains frying.   I think the WH is also stunned that so far as of about 15:30 - no comment.   Gotta love it for many reasons!  That SOB and his piss-ant cabinet have done everything they could to roll back protections for LGBTQ, the environment and anything they could to undo progress and give businesses the upper hand in all matters.   I am relieved that SCOTUS grew some balls and for once did something for the real minority.   The only way this could have been more of a rebuke to TOM and GOP is if it has been 9-0.  ;)  V> 

This is all well and good, and I am very glad for it, but there are still 27 states, where there are no explicit statewide laws at all protecting people from discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity in employment, housing and public accommodations. This ruling today is only on the federal level.
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Offline gattaca

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Re: Is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #3167 on: June 15, 2020, 06:31:56 PM »
^^^ Sadly true.  It is a + thing Federal Law has precedence. I am concerned there will be backlash and more attacks on the GBLTQ community and other minorities by the tyrannical majority - all of which the rule of law governs.  Trouble we have today is the people feel embolded to pick and choose the laws the like and ignore those they do not and believe they can do whatever they please.  It's dangerous. V.

Offline killersmom

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Re: Is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #3168 on: June 15, 2020, 06:39:42 PM »
^^^ Sadly true.  It is a + thing Federal Law has precedence. I am concerned there will be backlash and more attacks on the GBLTQ community and other minorities by the tyrannical majority - all of which the rule of law governs.  Trouble we have today is the people feel embolded to pick and choose the laws the like and ignore those they do not and believe they can do whatever they please.  It's dangerous. V.


And as you say, this is all due to the crooked a**hole in the White House and a Senate that is full of cowardly sycophants.
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Offline tfferg

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Re: Is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #3170 on: June 15, 2020, 07:21:13 PM »
^^^ Sadly true.  It is a + thing Federal Law has precedence. I am concerned there will be backlash and more attacks on the GBLTQ community and other minorities by the tyrannical majority - all of which the rule of law governs.  Trouble we have today is the people feel embolded to pick and choose the laws the like and ignore those they do not and believe they can do whatever they please.  It's dangerous. V.

One steep forward, how many steps backwards to come?

Offline gattaca

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Re: Is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #3171 on: June 16, 2020, 08:29:22 AM »
^^^ Yeap.  I am sure the "religious freedom" bigots and thumpers are already sharpening their cases to appeal on "religious freedom" grounds and the GOP is ready to grant them all "exemptions". 

I'm so sick of that ploy being used by religious bigots to do what they want outside the good of mankind. What the LBGTQ community needs is someone to legally organize a church where LBGTQ people are welcomed and create a doctrine focusing on "love thy neighbor as thyself" and then pit that "religious freedom" against the bigots brandishing the "Old Testament" fire and brimstone.  Now that's a Solomon slice the baby if there ever was one. 

I heard part of Alito's dissent about the decision impinging on "religious freedoms" and thought here we go again.  He's also the same Associate Justice that unleashed "Citizens United" on the USA which created the unregulated, unlimited, unaccountable campaign spending by WTH knows environment.  Just asinine thinking on his part. 

Oh well.  I'm sure the attacks will begin soon enough.   Peace.

Offline brian

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Re: Is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #3172 on: June 16, 2020, 01:22:20 PM »
What the LBGTQ community needs is someone to legally organize a church where LBGTQ people are welcomed and create a doctrine focusing on "love thy neighbor as thyself" and then pit that "religious freedom" against the bigots brandishing the "Old Testament" fire and brimstone.  Now that's a Solomon slice the baby if there ever was one. 
There are LGBTQ churches. I cannot think of the name of one at the moment. However they do not have very large numbers and are only found in large cities. There was one in Sydney where the Anglican church is very homophobic. However I went to an Anglican church in the city which openly advertised that it accepted all sexualities. It was a very wealthy church and therefore largely able to stand up to the diocesan leaders. Here in Dunedin the diocese is very liberal which is one of the reasons I chose to live here. There are several priests who are gay some open some not but the bishop knows. In Auckland, our biggest city, one of the churches 'St Matthews in the City' is openly welcoming.
Generally my observation of the USA is that most Episcopal churches are welcoming of LGBTQ and I have been in correspondence and met some gay and lesbian priests. By coincidence in 2014 I attended the Episcopal Cathedral in Washington on a Sunday when Bishop Gene Robinson, who is openly gay and was same sex married (sadly divorced), presided. I had already met him in Sydney when he attended our church but could not take an active role in the service as that would have pushed the homophobic diocesan leaders a bit too far.  He and his husband, however, were hosted by my church and spoke at a meeting afterwards. He gave me a big hug. Coming back to the service in Washington Cathedral, the sermon was delivered by a transexual priest. Again Bishop Gene welcomed me.
I rarely go to church now (last time was Christmas Eve, would have gone at Easter if not for lockdown). I do love the music and ritual. I am grateful that NZ is not a religious country so the churches have little influence on politics. I have come to believe that the Church over the years has become a drag on social development although I know some individuals do good work. I no longer believe in an afterlife. In fact my biggest beef with the church now is over Euthanasia. We have a referendum in September and the bishop who was a medical doctor is leading the opposition. He is only recent. The previous now retired bishop was a friend of mine and led the move to allow blessing of same sex marriage in the church.

Online fritzkep

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Re: Is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #3173 on: June 16, 2020, 01:54:00 PM »
Here it's the Metropolitan Community Church.

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Offline gattaca

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Re: Is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #3174 on: June 16, 2020, 03:05:14 PM »
^^^^ I know the Episcopal Church has generally been welcoming from my understanding of everyone.  Whereas way too many other "Christians" and their "faiths" have not and conveniently forget all the New Testament lessons when it pleases them to do so. 

Soap box ON:

However, no one has yet to take on the heavy weight denominations (Baptist, Catholic, Morman, ...) in a court case  of those "religious freedoms (hating GBLTQ)" vs those others (we love everyone). 

WRT religion, in general, it has created more wars, generated so much divisiveness all over the world and had so many people killed and die in the name of this faith or that faith that it's crazy people still need to this crutch to find spiritual guidance.  That guidance is something we must find and "come to terms with" individually.

I don't get asked too much anymore, "Are you religious?"  I emphatically come back with "Hell NO - but I am spiritual"  and that short circuits so many brains.  It's deer in the headlights.  Why?  It would be arrogant of me to flatly say one or more  &dieties do not exist b/c IDK that for sure - so it IS possible.  I do not need a religion to guide me to believing that is possible or to constantly be asking for $ to "fund their works..." which is the real reason they exist.   

Now to be fair, many "religious organizations" have a mostly positive spin and those are fine in my book.  It's the ones that use "freedom of religion" as a subterfuge to hide their hatred and bigotry in plain sight and dare you to tell them otherwise - because "any religion" is "protected..." Hence my hypothetical battle of the court cases.   I'm sorry the latter is just hatred plain an simple of something they will never understand.    Soap box OFF. V.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2020, 03:54:59 PM by gattaca »

Offline brian

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Re: Is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #3175 on: June 16, 2020, 03:35:19 PM »
Here it's the Metropolitan Community Church.
That is the name I was trying to think. I had friends who went to it in Sydney. In most places it is very protestant which would not suit me at all but in Sydney I was surprised to see how Anglican it was probably because the Sydney Anglican church is so homophobic.
For many years in Sydney I went to Acceptance - a gay Catholic group on Friday nights. I was teaching in a Catholic High School. We even had a bishop attend and preside one night. I was also a member of Anggays in Sydney, they once had a retreat in my home in the Mountains, but we were fighting a losing battle.
Referring to Africa, it depends on the history. If the Anglican church was established by the CMS (Church Missionary Society), it is likely to be very homophobic. If established by more high church missionary agencies it is likely to be accepting. An example is South Africa and Bishop Desmond Tutu. Of course South Africa has a breakaway Anglican group and they are in cahoots with Sydney.
In my 20's I went to a church where there was a non married priest, John T. He was a great worker with youth and had asked me to live in the rectory, I taught at the nearby high school and still lived with my parents. However he had a nervous breakdown and left the parish. I and other young people visited him in a private hospital which I now know specialised in 'treatment' of gays. 
He was made general secretary of the CMS in Sydney to keep him away from the temptations of parish life. He committed suicide. His story is well known in enlightened Anglican church circles in Sydney.
CMS is quite big in NZ but when people in the church talk about it and ask for donations they probably wonder why I sneer and say 'no way'  I absolutely hate the organisation. The only thing is that, while neither John nor I ever mentioned homosexuality (it was the late 1960's), I think it was a major influence in my deciding the priesthood was not for me. A decision I am very grateful for.

Offline brian

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Re: Is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #3176 on: June 16, 2020, 03:56:59 PM »
At the age of about 9 or 10, I made a 'decision for Christ' at a Beach Mission. I now say that ws one of the worst decisions of my life but who knows. I was very religious and a church youth leader, also at University. Thankfully I was never extreme in my social views even before I had accepted my sexuality. I opposed narrow biblical interpretations. As stated, I decided the priesthood was not for me and as I got older a single man is treated with suspicion in Sydney Anglican churches. I kept moving to find less homophobic churches. I stormed out often, even once after having read the lesson when the priest in his sermon said homosexuality and bestiality were equally depraved. I was taken off the reader list but joked that was ok because women were not allowed to read the lesson. However I soon left. That was when I began going to the Catholic Acceptance Group, my homosexuality was accepted in the Catholic Senior High School where I taught. 
It was a sermon against BBM in 2006 when I again walked out and decided to start taking the 2 hour train trip each way to the church I mentioned in the centre of Sydney. I still go there when I am back in Sydney. The priest is often in the Sydney paper opposing the church leadership as in the same-sex marriage vote. As I said the parish is very wealthy (the social set go there) so they bishops can do little against him.
However as I get older I find many my age are no longer afraid of death and some little old ladies have told me they do not believe any of it but they like the social life and the ritual and they have gone all their life so why stop now.