The Ultimate Brokeback Forum

Author Topic: LGBTQ related news and issues  (Read 704566 times)

Offline graylockV

  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 1460
  • Klaatu barada nikto
Re: is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #225 on: March 05, 2007, 07:39:46 PM »
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Prominent politicians from both parties and a gay-rights group on Saturday condemned right-wing commentator Ann Coulter for her reference Friday to Democratic presidential candidate John Edwards as a "faggot."


Ann Coulter is a notorious publicity whore.  She says outrageous things to get into the news and sell more of her books to the "vast right-wing conspiracy."  The REAL question is why the American Conservative Union invited her to speak, and why anyone would think she has any valid insights into anything.  She considers all "liberals" to be traitors - I think her most recent book's title is based on that assertion.

Does she really believe all that she says?  Probably, but mostly she is thrilled by the publicity she generates and by the $$$ that comes from it.
Beulah, peel me a grape.

Offline estefue

  • Papi Chulo
  • Global Moderator
  • Obsessed
  • ******
  • Posts: 1799
Re: is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #226 on: March 05, 2007, 08:13:32 PM »
I couldn't agree more.  And how about Mitt Romney??  People should be treated with dignity?  After all his efforts to invalidate same sex marriage in Massacusetts?

Offline maidenofthesea

  • guest
  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 2231
  • Rebel Spirit
Re: is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #227 on: March 06, 2007, 11:50:52 AM »
This is something a friend sent to me in an email in regards to the need to defend Jake's sexuality as being straight. I have to agree with it whole heartedly.


To me, if you really accept all identities and sexual orientations, then saying Jake is bi/queer is the same as saying he was born in California. Not something he can change, a fact. Not slander or libel, a compliment.
And when the person I fought with tried to tell me that I was being unrealistic about "what that would do to his career," I reminded her that we don't control Jake's career from a message board owned by some guy in Denver.
 
To say that it's damaging to speculate that Jake is bi is participating in the bigotry that killed Jack.




He made his way closer to Jack, when he passed a mirror and had to stop and comb his greasy dirty-blonde locks.

That’s one down for the good guys, Jack thought gleefully. Bye-bye evil warthog!

Offline merrobot

  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 1502
  • Bar Fly
Re: is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #228 on: March 06, 2007, 11:57:40 AM »
This is something a friend sent to me in an email in regards to the need to defend Jake's sexuality as being straight. I have to agree with it whole heartedly.


To me, if you really accept all identities and sexual orientations, then saying Jake is bi/queer is the same as saying he was born in California. Not something he can change, a fact. Not slander or libel, a compliment.
And when the person I fought with tried to tell me that I was being unrealistic about "what that would do to his career," I reminded her that we don't control Jake's career from a message board owned by some guy in Denver.
 
To say that it's damaging to speculate that Jake is bi is participating in the bigotry that killed Jack.


I completely agree with you here with regard to what your friend says about any speculation about his sexual orientation (here or elsewhere) being unlikely to have an impact on Jake's career.  However, to take things one step further, I think there is perhaps more validity in the concerns that some people have expressed that for Jake to actually come out as a gay or bisexual man may have a negative impact on his career.
"I've more than one membership
to more than one club
and I owe my life to the people that I love"
- Ani DiFranco, In or Out, Living in Clip

Offline maidenofthesea

  • guest
  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 2231
  • Rebel Spirit
Re: is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #229 on: March 06, 2007, 12:00:13 PM »
This is something a friend sent to me in an email in regards to the need to defend Jake's sexuality as being straight. I have to agree with it whole heartedly.


To me, if you really accept all identities and sexual orientations, then saying Jake is bi/queer is the same as saying he was born in California. Not something he can change, a fact. Not slander or libel, a compliment.
And when the person I fought with tried to tell me that I was being unrealistic about "what that would do to his career," I reminded her that we don't control Jake's career from a message board owned by some guy in Denver.
 
To say that it's damaging to speculate that Jake is bi is participating in the bigotry that killed Jack.


I completely agree with you here with regard to what your friend says about any speculation about his sexual orientation (here or elsewhere) being unlikely to have an impact on Jake's career.  However, to take things one step further, I think there is perhaps more validity in the concerns that some people have expressed that for Jake to actually come out as a gay or bisexual man may have a negative impact on his career.

Well that's fine. But I guess I've never assigned myself as a defender of his career. I hope others do not as well. Only Jake can look after Jake.

I am among the fans that encourage him to be who he is, himself completely. His real fans will love him regardless. I hate to think of Jake playing the game to the extent of living a lie. I sincerely hope that is not the case, if that's what his fans who use that excuse are implying.

Good to see you over here April!  :)


He made his way closer to Jack, when he passed a mirror and had to stop and comb his greasy dirty-blonde locks.

That’s one down for the good guys, Jack thought gleefully. Bye-bye evil warthog!

Offline merrobot

  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 1502
  • Bar Fly
Re: is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #230 on: March 06, 2007, 12:08:27 PM »
Well that's fine. But I guess I've never assigned myself as a defender of his career. I hope others do not as well. Only Jake can look after Jake.

I am among the fans that encourage him to be who he is, himself completely. His real fans will love him regardless. I hate to think of Jake playing the game to the extent of living a lie. I sincerely hope that is not the case, if that's what his fans who use that excuse are implying.

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear - I'm not saying for one moment that I agree that anyone should remain in the closet for fear of reprisal.  Not at all - but it is a risk you take.  As you say, his real fans will accept him completely for who he is and what he does - however, as you also say, we aren't the movers and shakers of the film industry who have the power to hire and fire him. 

I think that is partly where this thread came from - the question of whether society as a whole is ready to fully accept LGBT folks.

"I've more than one membership
to more than one club
and I owe my life to the people that I love"
- Ani DiFranco, In or Out, Living in Clip

Offline maidenofthesea

  • guest
  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 2231
  • Rebel Spirit
Re: is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #231 on: March 06, 2007, 12:10:37 PM »
Well that's fine. But I guess I've never assigned myself as a defender of his career. I hope others do not as well. Only Jake can look after Jake.

I am among the fans that encourage him to be who he is, himself completely. His real fans will love him regardless. I hate to think of Jake playing the game to the extent of living a lie. I sincerely hope that is not the case, if that's what his fans who use that excuse are implying.

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear - I'm not saying for one moment that I agree that anyone should remain in the closet for fear of reprisal.  Not at all - but it is a risk you take.  As you say, his real fans will accept him completely for who he is and what he does - however, as you also say, we aren't the movers and shakers of the film industry who have the power to hire and fire him. 

I think that is partly where this thread came from - the question of whether society as a whole is ready to fully accept LGBT folks.



You're absolutely right. I guess the point isn't about us and what we think at all when all is said and done. WE all have our own opinions on the matter. I suppose my point was without stating it is I hope we can all express them clearly in this venue. And sadly, I can't help but think those of us who believe he or other entertainers are not straight, are chastised for believing so. So it really does beg the question the board asks, are we as accepting as we claim to be?


He made his way closer to Jack, when he passed a mirror and had to stop and comb his greasy dirty-blonde locks.

That’s one down for the good guys, Jack thought gleefully. Bye-bye evil warthog!

Offline lowcountrygirl

  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 3949
  • Proud member of Jake's unique fan base
    • My blog
Re: is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #232 on: March 06, 2007, 12:15:00 PM »
Well that's fine. But I guess I've never assigned myself as a defender of his career. I hope others do not as well. Only Jake can look after Jake.

I am among the fans that encourage him to be who he is, himself completely. His real fans will love him regardless. I hate to think of Jake playing the game to the extent of living a lie. I sincerely hope that is not the case, if that's what his fans who use that excuse are implying.

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear - I'm not saying for one moment that I agree that anyone should remain in the closet for fear of reprisal.  Not at all - but it is a risk you take.  As you say, his real fans will accept him completely for who he is and what he does - however, as you also say, we aren't the movers and shakers of the film industry who have the power to hire and fire him. 

I think that is partly where this thread came from - the question of whether society as a whole is ready to fully accept LGBT folks.


And it's not! Even here (DC forum) there seems to be a lot of negative emotional energy stirred up when anyone suggests he might not be straight and we are the people who liked and supported BBM!!

If it wouldn't be safe for him to come out to some of us, it certainly isn't safe in Hollywood.

But I am not saying, either, that people "should" remain closeted. I can't make that choice for someone else. What I'm saying is I fully understand why he or someone else would.
"Ya ain't got a problem, Hank... Yer justa l'il sad is all... 'S ta be 'xpected when bad stuff happens... 'n ya got a righ' ta be sad 'bout it...", Ed in Ed and Hank.

(Thank you, myeyesain'tblue!)

Offline merrobot

  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 1502
  • Bar Fly
Re: is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #233 on: March 06, 2007, 12:17:28 PM »
You're absolutely right. I guess the point isn't about us and what we think at all when all is said and done. WE all have our own opinions on the matter. I suppose my point was without stating it is I hope we can all express them clearly in this venue. And sadly, I can't help but think those of us who believe he or other entertainers are not straight, are chastised for believing so. So it really does beg the question the board asks, are we as accepting as we claim to be?

I've picked up on that too but I try to chalk it up to my misunderstanding of where people are coming from i.e. that people are more worried about Jake's sexuality as a privacy issue than that they really believe that in some way saying he's not straight is a slanderous thing.  I have also picked up that most people take 'straight' as the 'default' sexual orientation.  I just try to assume nothing  :)
"I've more than one membership
to more than one club
and I owe my life to the people that I love"
- Ani DiFranco, In or Out, Living in Clip

Offline maidenofthesea

  • guest
  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 2231
  • Rebel Spirit
Re: is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #234 on: March 06, 2007, 12:19:02 PM »


I've picked up on that too but I try to chalk it up to my misunderstanding of where people are coming from i.e. that people are more worried about Jake's sexuality as a privacy issue than that they really believe that in some way saying he's not straight is a slanderous thing.  I have also picked up that most people take 'straight' as the 'default' sexual orientation.  I just try to assume nothing  :)

Oh no that can't be it considering most of these people hover over any gossip or rag sites with his pap pics on them and post them for all to see!  :D


He made his way closer to Jack, when he passed a mirror and had to stop and comb his greasy dirty-blonde locks.

That’s one down for the good guys, Jack thought gleefully. Bye-bye evil warthog!

Offline merrobot

  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 1502
  • Bar Fly
Re: is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #235 on: March 06, 2007, 12:21:54 PM »
But I am not saying, either, that people "should" remain closeted. I can't make that choice for someone else. What I'm saying is I fully understand why he or someone else would.

It really depends on an individual's situation.  Someone sent me some youtube clips of Shirley Phelps-Roper a few days ago and I would absolutely never have come out as a teenager if I knew about people like her.  But maybe I'm getting off topic...
"I've more than one membership
to more than one club
and I owe my life to the people that I love"
- Ani DiFranco, In or Out, Living in Clip

Offline lowcountrygirl

  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 3949
  • Proud member of Jake's unique fan base
    • My blog
Re: is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #236 on: March 06, 2007, 12:28:17 PM »
I've picked up on that too but I try to chalk it up to my misunderstanding of where people are coming from i.e. that people are more worried about Jake's sexuality as a privacy issue than that they really believe that in some way saying he's not straight is a slanderous thing. 

Like the person who, earlier on this thread, said we should "mind our own business"? ;)

I think concern for his privacy might be connected to fear about what would happen of his sexuality were public, which is a legitimate concern.

But I also agree with what Chas said. We, here, are not all as accepting as we claim. At least not where our Jake is concerned.

"Ya ain't got a problem, Hank... Yer justa l'il sad is all... 'S ta be 'xpected when bad stuff happens... 'n ya got a righ' ta be sad 'bout it...", Ed in Ed and Hank.

(Thank you, myeyesain'tblue!)

Offline lowcountrygirl

  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 3949
  • Proud member of Jake's unique fan base
    • My blog
Re: is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #237 on: March 06, 2007, 12:32:01 PM »
But I am not saying, either, that people "should" remain closeted. I can't make that choice for someone else. What I'm saying is I fully understand why he or someone else would.

It really depends on an individual's situation.  Someone sent me some youtube clips of Shirley Phelps-Roper a few days ago and I would absolutely never have come out as a teenager if I knew about people like her.  But maybe I'm getting off topic...

You came out as a teenager? Wow! That's admirable.

I was quite the late bloomer, myself, and am not completely out even now.

And yes, religious extremists and even, regular Christians I knew growing up helped me believe that I "better not be" anything but straight. I have worked through that but not because the religious right has changed.
"Ya ain't got a problem, Hank... Yer justa l'il sad is all... 'S ta be 'xpected when bad stuff happens... 'n ya got a righ' ta be sad 'bout it...", Ed in Ed and Hank.

(Thank you, myeyesain'tblue!)

Offline maidenofthesea

  • guest
  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 2231
  • Rebel Spirit
Re: is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #238 on: March 06, 2007, 12:35:22 PM »
Here's a question:

Do you guys wonder, as society (hopefully) grows more accepting of homosexuality, will they do the same for bisexuality? Even now its the dirty step child of both sides, too gay for the heterosexuals, too straight for the homosexuals.


He made his way closer to Jack, when he passed a mirror and had to stop and comb his greasy dirty-blonde locks.

That’s one down for the good guys, Jack thought gleefully. Bye-bye evil warthog!

Offline planetgal471

  • Mistress of Metaphor
  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 10813
  • Race the Burning Sun
    • The Sacred Realm
Re: is society really as accepting as it claims?
« Reply #239 on: March 06, 2007, 12:50:08 PM »
I personally hope that society is moving towards simply realizing that people are sexual beings, and that and gender orientation are fluid creatures. I think it's a harder leap because it's different from how we're taught to think of people as being a member of this group or that group, so it might be slow catching on, but I do think it will happen.
"Speak what you think today in words as hard as cannonballs and tomorrow speak what tomorrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said today." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self Reliance