Gay History -- How We Got Here

[gattaca]

^^ ROTFLMAO.... you betch'a!   V.

[Lyle (Mooska)]

  

The story/event is so well known that everyone wonders "what would I have done?" in that situation. The idea of gay people on the Titanic is something that pops up on occasion:

In fact:
Lesbian Titanic Survivor’s Illuminating Cane To Be Auctioned
from Jun 13, 2019
https://www.gaystarnews.com/article/lesbian-cane-auctioned/


In fiction:




In a 1993 Off-Broadway Musical: Hello Again is a musical with music, lyrics and book by Michael John LaChiusa. It is based on the 1897 play La Ronde by Arthur Schnitzler (also titled Reigen). It focuses on a series of love affairs among ten characters during the ten different decades of the 20th century.




Which was made into a 2017 film: Based on the Off-Broadway musical of same name by Michael John LaChiusa, the film stars Audra McDonald, Martha Plimpton, T. R. Knight, Cheyenne Jackson and Rumer Willis and follows 10 lost souls across 10 periods in New York City history. The daisy-chained musical explores love's bittersweet embrace as the pursued become the pursuer and slip in and out of one another's arms, spinning through 10 music-fueled vignettes which come together in one soulful circle.



The above wikipedia link for the film details each of the ten vignettes. The one in question is:

The Husband and The Young Thing

In 1912, on the Titanic, a wealthy man traveling without his wife convinces an attractive servant to join him for dinner in his cabin. They talk, and the wealthy man (T.R. Knight) begins to awkwardly flirt with the younger man (Tyler Blackburn--coincidentally named Jack, DiCaprio's name in the 1997 film).

The younger man goes into the bathroom when the ship strikes an iceberg and begins to sink. A deck hand warns them to get out, but the husband, seemingly on the verge of a total breakdown at the news, does not tell the young man what is happening and instead seduces him. The young man asks if he can join him when they arrive in New York, but the husband confesses the ship is sinking. The young man is furious and flees, running with all the other panicking passengers, while the husband chooses to drown alone in the dark cabin.


Inspired by the 1997 film: Digital Pride and Proud Unicorn, a multimedia production company, proudly present a reimagining of Jack and Rose's bow scene on the TItanic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4J74gIDtqz0


And, by the way, the New York Times article about Miller and Butt isn't the first time they've been in the public view. Example; an article from 2015:

We Were There, Too
Apr 1, 2015
https://www.outsmartmagazine.com/2015/04/we-were-there-too/


Another example from 2012, the 100th Anniversary of the sinking:

Historian Says Famous Titanic Passengers Were Gay
Apr 13, 2012
https://www.outhistory.org/article/historian-famous-passengers-gay130412/


Now...what about the Hindenburg? 

[CellarDweller115]

Honoring George Chauncey, a Scholar of Gay History

By:  Paul Hond -  Fall 2022

Historian George Chauncey was first summoned to court in 1993. He was thirty-nine, a little-known assistant professor at the University of Chicago, and a year away from publishing his groundbreaking book Gay New York: Gender, Urban Culture, and the Making of the Gay Male World, 1890–1940. As one of a small number of scholars in the US working on gay history, Chauncey had been asked to testify in a case  challenging a Colorado state constitutional amendment that banned municipalities from protecting gay people from discrimination.

The US Supreme Court ultimately struck down the amendment, and Chauncey became the go-to expert witness on the history of anti-gay discrimination.

Chauncey, who is the DeWitt Clinton Professor of American History at Columbia (a chair previously held by Allan Nevins ’60HON, Richard Hofstadter ’42GSAS, and Eric Foner ’63CC, ’69GSAS), has long been a witness for justice. He grew up in the 1950s and ’60s in the South, the son of a Presbyterian minister who was deeply involved in the civil-rights movement. By high school, Chauncey was eager to see other parts of the country, and when it came time for college he went to Yale, where he came out as gay. He got his PhD in history at Yale in the 1980s, at the height of the AIDS crisis.


https://magazine.columbia.edu/article/honoring-george-chauncey-scholar-gay-history

[Lyle (Mooska)]

Congratulations to Mr. Chauncey. Somewhere on the forum I mentioned that I met George Chauncey in the West Hollywood location of A Different Light Bookstore. I don't recall why he was there, it wasn't for a book signing or reading or anything, it was just during a weekday when I would often stop in there during a break at work. I believe I remember overhearing him talking to one of the employees, or manager or something and recognized his name because I had purchased and read his great history book "Gay New York" and so I went over and talked to him and told him how much I liked it.

Bookstores! Their demise means people won't run into authors like I did.  He was one, and another was Allan Berube of the "Coming Out Under Fire" book. And I attended some readings at the two WeHo LGBT bookstores and met some others.

Like: Remember Joseph Steffan who was expelled from the Naval Academy for being gay in 1987 and wrote a book about it after filing a lawsuit? Met him. And Dave Pallone, the gay MLB umpire who wrote about his experiences and wanting to come out in an early 90's book? -- Not only did I meet him, he stayed around for some weeks and I talked to him in the Revolver bar in West Hollywood. He saw me on the street one day at one point when the community was protesting Gov. Wilson's Veto of AB101 protecting LGBT persons in the workplace. I was on my way to one of the marches and he saw me and gave me ride!

Bookstores, video stores, music stores -- no one socializes with like minded people any more and gets to interact with some who are making a difference. It's very despairing in many ways.

[michaelflanagansf]

History or showbiz gossip? You decide:

https://pleasekillme.com/gay-heroes-sixties-sitcoms/

[Lyle (Mooska)]

^^^

Well, Michael, that was quite interesting to me. One, because one of those people named I never ever heard or suspected or had any gaydar whatsoever of him of being gay. Joe Flynn. Did you, anyone, ever know anything like that about him? Interesting.

The other is that I had contact with several of the others mentioned over the years!

I was introduced to Richard Deacon as being gay one night I was at The Backlot, the upstairs section of Studio One, in West Hollywood. Specifics are hazy now, but it was mid-week. Early 80's. When one has grown up with no specific information about any famous gay people, those revelations stuck with you. In 2020 when I watched The Dick Van Dyke Show TV series on DVD, a series I had seen probably most of, but not all, there were commentaries on many episodes with Carl Reiner and Dick Van Dyke. I remember wondering why they never said Richard Deacon was gay. They talked about him several times; that he was a wonderful man. Generous. Gave his time to many worthy endeavors. Many other things, but ignored that. Maybe just a habit over the years.

Then this article mentions Roger C. Carmel. (!) The article even mentions his commercial character Señor Naugles. Naugles was a Mexican fast food restaurant. I met him several times in the 1980's when he came in to Video West. (Gay men, especially of his age, at the time were just pretty astounded that they could go into a video store, like ours in West Hollywood, in public in the light of day, and matter-of-factly rent gay x-rated videos to take back home.) He used to come into the store with flyers, say from Falcon Studios, to see if we had any of those titles. He'd unabashedly spread the flyers out on the counter and ask, "Which one of these titles has the biggest dicks?" He would bring in his ailing little chihuahua dog and place him on the counter, too. One of the other employees dubbed his pet Señor Doggles.

In this particular article, it says, "Deacon replaced Roger C. Carmel in the role [in the Mothers-in-Law]. Carmel had been ousted by producer Desi Arnaz, officially over a salary dispute, but more likely because his drug use was causing costly production delays."  Hmmm. The story I heard about that dispute a couple times from different sources. One was from Kaye Ballard. She said that the cast was promised a raise if the show was picked up for a second season. The ratings for the first season weren't as good as they'd wanted it to be, but it was picked up, but, Kaye stated, it would only get picked up if the actors agreed to waive the salary increase. Kaye said that Roger was furious about that and said he wouldn't do it. They [management] wouldn't give in and so, Kaye stated, that Roger quit the series.

So, did Arnaz oust him or Roger quit? Knowing from many sources that Desilu could be very, shall we say--frugal, that I can see Desi Arnaz pulling something like that. Over the years on I Love Lucy, her costume designer, Elois Jenssen, never got a raise. By the last season or two she forced the issue and they would not give her one, so Jenssen left. They ended up replacing her with Robert Stevenson whose starting salary was what Jenssen had asked for. (Lucy had control/loyalty issues.) I am not aware of anything to do with Carmel's drug issues, which this article states is the "likely" cause of his ouster, but Kaye Ballard didn't hesitate to state the cast in total wasn't happy for being screwed on that issue and she was admiring of Roger for sticking to his guns in getting what they were "promised" and quitting over it.

At Video West, I also met some others mentioned in this article. One was Robert Q. Lewis, someone I'd known from TV over the years growing up in the 1960's. He was a guest star on many talk shows and TV sitcoms (I recall one of them being Bewitched), appeared in movies (Good Neighbor Sam) and even hosted some game shows himself. His voice was quite distinctive. I always wondered what the Q. stood for.

Paul Lynde, also mentioned in the article, I never met per se, but I did see him in an early '80s taping of three episodes of The Hollywood Squares, one of the last original seasons it was on NBC. Game shows would tape three episodes, have a break and then tape two more. Or vice-versa. Two separate audiences, one for each grouping. I was in the first group that day. On the way out, Paul Lynde had come in the audience area to talk to somebody and we crossed paths in some way we were situated that I nearly ran into him. He gave me a look and in my head I heard his inimitable voice saying, "Watch it, buddy," or the like! [Except for Peter Marshall, can you believe I cannot remember any of the other 8 celebrities that were in the other squares? How can that be? Except that I went to a taping of the Match Game once at CBS and I can't remember anyone I saw at that taping, either. Not even Gene Rayburn and he HAD to be there. Wish I'd kept a journal.]

Another person mentioned that I met was Charles Nelson Reilly. He was a frequent visitor to Video West and also to the Different Light Bookstore nearby. He was the kindest man. For example, when one of the employees mentioned they were going on a trip to NYC, he got him tickets to the show he was directing there with Julie Harris. He mentioned one day he was visiting Betty White and I said "tell her I said hello." The next visit he brought me in an 8x10 photo of Betty autographed to me. I had mentioned to my mother that I'd been talking to him one time and she told me she always liked when he appeared on talk shows and to tell him "hello" for her. I did and he asked for her address and sent her an autographed photo with a rather long note mentioning "her son" and how much he enjoyed talking to me.

Speaking of Charles Nelson Reilly, a friend of mine this very morning sent a link to me to a video put on youtube this month about him, titled:

Too Gay for Television? How Charles Nelson Reilly Proved NBC Wrong
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp9-hVEpLBA

With 99 appearances on The Tonight Show, nearly two thousand game show episodes, and starring roles from Broadway to sitcoms to cartoons … for decades, Charles Nelson Reilly WAS television. But it almost never happened: At Charles’ first TV audition, an NBC executive took one look at him and said, "they don’t let queers on television.” So, how did Charles Nelson Reilly go from being too gay for broadcast to dominating the airwaves? This is the story of an iconic gay actor who went from selling his blood to make ends meet to being the most in-demand actor on television, thanks to a little help from Burt Reynolds, Broadway, and a haunted house.

I knew that Charles had been nominated for a few Emmys in the supporting actor in a comedy category and one day I asked him if he'd ever won an Emmy for one of those nominations. He replied, "No. I kept losing to [in a German accent] Werner Klemperer."   

[Jeff Wrangler]

Must watch that video.

I presume the "haunted house" is a reference to The Ghost and Mrs. Muir. That was my first exposure to CNR.

Funny how clearly I remember that show. I probably had a crush on Edward Mulhare. 

[gattaca]

^^ Now there's a blast - "The Ghost and Mrs. Muir"   We were existing in parallel universes?   V.

[michaelflanagansf]

Remembering Allen R. Schindler Jr. today on the anniversary of his homophobic murder:

https://www.grunge.com/642440/the-tragic-murder-of-allen-r-schindler-jr/

[michaelflanagansf]

Circling back around I used the material I put together for my library talk in this latest article on lgbtq history on the Peninsula:

https://www.ebar.com/story.php?ch=BARtab&sc=BARchive&id=320145

[fritzkep]

Thank you, Michael, for your work in rooting out this history.

[CellarDweller115]

Very interesting, Michael.

The police really worked overtime to get gay people, and then others wonder why the gay community is wary of the police.

[michaelflanagansf]

Thank you, Michael, for your work in rooting out this history.

The interesting (perplexing/frustrating) thing is that I have approached several of the local historical associations regarding my talk to ask about some of the places and people mentioned - and I've met with either resounding silence or perplexed responses about how they don't know anything about this. I guess they don't collect that kind of local history

[michaelflanagansf]

Very interesting, Michael.

The police really worked overtime to get gay people, and then others wonder why the gay community is wary of the police.

What was most disturbing regarding all that Chuck is that the police continued to harass people who went to the bars through the 90s. I had a patron report to me that they waited outside of B Street in San Mateo to tail patrons after closing time and verified that with my late friend Jeannie (who wasn't gay, but had lots of gay friends). As you might imagine, that had a chilling effect on the businesses.

[Lyle (Mooska)]

Circling back around I used the material I put together for my library talk in this latest article on lgbtq history on the Peninsula:
https://www.ebar.com/story.php?ch=BARtab&sc=BARchive&id=320145

When I read history like this, that a lot of took place when I was growing up, I like to remember something of those years and think that these things were going on in other places at those times.

And just a little something I found interesting in the article; I just connected this to my younger years, because this group was on many a TV show in the early '60s: The Cracked Pot was well known as the place where the Kingston Trio first played in 1957, but was listed as a gay club in 1964 in the Directory 43 and in the Damron Guide in 1965, two early gay bar guides.