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Poll

What period of gay history would you like to discuss first?

The fifties and sixties - before Stonewall
9 (50%)
Early Gay Liberation 1969 - 1975
2 (11.1%)
Political awakening 1975 - 1981
0 (0%)
The onset of AIDS 1981 - 1996
6 (33.3%)
Post Protease Inhibitors 1996 - Present
1 (5.6%)

Total Members Voted: 14

Voting closed: February 24, 2007, 01:59:08 AM

Author Topic: Gay History -- How We Got Here  (Read 518289 times)

Offline cabin

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Re: Gay History -- How We Got Here
« Reply #540 on: August 28, 2007, 06:50:32 AM »
Let's see if we can start the convo again on a period of gay history that has always motivated me to study further.

http://www.pbs.org/outofthepast/

Offline ChrisW

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Re: Gay History -- How We Got Here
« Reply #541 on: September 03, 2007, 01:39:59 PM »
Hello all,
Tomorrow is the 50th anniversary of the publication of the Wolfenden report, which was a key event for gay people in the UK.
This piece by Julian Mitchell is well worth reading
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,2161121,00.html
- and as he says, when he and his partner came out of the registry office arm in arm, no-one even looked up.
It has seemed to me that the British public really don't care any more about this issue, he confirms it.


Offline tfferg

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Re: Gay History -- How We Got Here
« Reply #542 on: September 03, 2007, 11:31:47 PM »
Hello all,
Tomorrow is the 50th anniversary of the publication of the Wolfenden report, which was a key event for gay people in the UK.
This piece by Julian Mitchell is well worth reading
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,2161121,00.html
- and as he says, when he and his partner came out of the registry office arm in arm, no-one even looked up.
It has seemed to me that the British public really don't care any more about this issue, he confirms it.



Hmmm. The comments from readers following the article reveal a more complex picture.

Offline ChrisW

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Re: Gay History -- How We Got Here
« Reply #543 on: September 04, 2007, 01:25:30 AM »
Well, OK, but it really does seem that it's somewhat more tolerated than anyone, including me, would have guessed. No-one had heard of 'gay marriage' until a few years ago. When I first heard about it I thought it was a bizarre idea, and I'm one of the supposedly well-educated and enlightened members of society. Of course you are welcome to add your own comment, too, to redress the balance. I have not read the comments, since I was actually reading the paper when i came to this item.

Offline tfferg

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Re: Gay History -- How We Got Here
« Reply #544 on: September 04, 2007, 08:42:29 AM »
Well, OK, but it really does seem that it's somewhat more tolerated than anyone, including me, would have guessed. No-one had heard of 'gay marriage' until a few years ago. When I first heard about it I thought it was a bizarre idea, and I'm one of the supposedly well-educated and enlightened members of society. Of course you are welcome to add your own comment, too, to redress the balance. I have not read the comments, since I was actually reading the paper when i came to this item.

Didn't mean to be a wet blanket, montezumae. I agree that there has certainly been significant progress and people's lives have been changed so much for the better. The experience of individual people in different social contexts varies so much even in countries where laws have been reformed for the better, as in the UK, but the progress that has been achieved gives us hope.

At the moment, I'm staying in a country where there are no anti-homosexual laws and the dominant religion is not homophobic, though there is no same-sex marriage or legal civil union. Gay-bashing seems to be unheard of. There are lots of gay bars in the big cities and resort towns and the majority of the population seems to have a live and let live attitude or simply pity the bad karma that leads poeple to be born homosexual. But it is not the gay paradise that it is sometimes perceived as by people from overtly homophobic countries. Local gays are often isolated and suffer to the extent that they feel suicidal.

Offline cabin

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Re: Gay History -- How We Got Here
« Reply #545 on: September 15, 2007, 03:22:48 PM »
I found the following link from a website mentioned on another thread.
Like some others here, I've heard the name Frank Kameny for the past
30 years on his determination for gay rights, and that happened decades
before the first time I heard of him. 

Apparently, he continues to this day.   The guy is legendary.

http://www.towleroad.com/2007/09/frank-kameny-ga.html

Offline ChrisW

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Re: Gay History -- How We Got Here
« Reply #546 on: September 17, 2007, 01:05:41 AM »

Didn't mean to be a wet blanket, montezumae. I agree that there has certainly been significant progress and people's lives have been changed so much for the better. The experience of individual people in different social contexts varies so much even in countries where laws have been reformed for the better, as in the UK, but the progress that has been achieved gives us hope.

At the moment, I'm staying in a country where there are no anti-homosexual laws and the dominant religion is not homophobic, though there is no same-sex marriage or legal civil union. Gay-bashing seems to be unheard of. There are lots of gay bars in the big cities and resort towns and the majority of the population seems to have a live and let live attitude or simply pity the bad karma that leads poeple to be born homosexual. But it is not the gay paradise that it is sometimes perceived as by people from overtly homophobic countries. Local gays are often isolated and suffer to the extent that they feel suicidal.
no, I'm sure you didn't - and bad karma -now, i really don't like that. At this stage i seem to have lots of gay friends and relations, and no way am I thinking this is bad karma, or the UK equivalent. Pity eh!  I count myself lucky to know (and love) these people.  Wrong thread... sorry....

Offline michaelflanagansf

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Re: Gay History -- How We Got Here
« Reply #547 on: September 17, 2007, 01:37:06 AM »
The recent situation with Larry Craig reminded me of another individual who was arrested for public indecency - Bayard Rustin.  He was one of the organizers of the March on Washington where Martin Luther King gave his 'I Have A Dream' speech.  Here's a little info on his life:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayard_Rustin

http://www.rustin.org/
Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. - Karl R. Popper

Offline tfferg

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Re: Gay History -- How We Got Here
« Reply #548 on: September 17, 2007, 08:26:35 AM »

no, I'm sure you didn't - and bad karma -now, i really don't like that. At this stage i seem to have lots of gay friends and relations, and no way am I thinking this is bad karma, or the UK equivalent. Pity eh!  I count myself lucky to know (and love) these people.  Wrong thread... sorry....

I think traditonally people in this country thought of being born a ladyboy or not straight was the karmic consequence of committing adultery in former life. If you were not heterosexual with the opportunity to marry and have children, you'd have the prospect of a lonely and poverty-stricken old age. Here, where there is little in the way of social security provided by the state, offspring have always had the duty to provide for their parents as soon as they are able and repay them for their care as dependent children. Even now adult children are too ashamed to go home to visit their parents upcountry if they cannot take money to give them.

A lot of gays here support parents in the provinces and I suspect carry more responsibility for their parents' welfare than their straight siblings.


Offline michaelflanagansf

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Re: Gay History -- How We Got Here
« Reply #549 on: September 17, 2007, 10:03:09 AM »
A lot of gays here support parents in the provinces and I suspect carry more responsibility for their parents' welfare than their straight siblings.

Strangely enough there was a Dear Abby that concerned this sort of thing recently.  This post is from Bessemer Alabama:

http://bessemeropinions.blogspot.com/2007/07/intolerance-v-acceptance.html

So this does seem related to many people's personal history.

Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. - Karl R. Popper

Offline ChrisW

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Re: Gay History -- How We Got Here
« Reply #550 on: September 17, 2007, 02:52:32 PM »

no, I'm sure you didn't - and bad karma -now, i really don't like that. At this stage i seem to have lots of gay friends and relations, and no way am I thinking this is bad karma, or the UK equivalent. Pity eh!  I count myself lucky to know (and love) these people.  Wrong thread... sorry....

I think traditonally people in this country thought of being born a ladyboy or not straight was the karmic consequence of committing adultery in former life. If you were not heterosexual with the opportunity to marry and have children, you'd have the prospect of a lonely and poverty-stricken old age. Here, where there is little in the way of social security provided by the state, offspring have always had the duty to provide for their parents as soon as they are able and repay them for their care as dependent children. Even now adult children are too ashamed to go home to visit their parents upcountry if they cannot take money to give them.

A lot of gays here support parents in the provinces and I suspect carry more responsibility for their parents' welfare than their straight siblings.


- that's a very interesting observation. After my sister got to know my son's bf a bit and we had talked it over, she astounded me by saying, 'you know, it could be A. (the bf) who has to arrange for you to be admitted to a nursing home.' I don't mind telling you I was gobsmacked, because that seems such a long way off, but also because I don't think I'd ever really thought that way about it.
Oh, don't tell me this is the wrong thread..... I know that.

But while we are on this subject, the Ladyboys of Bangkok have performed for several years now at the Brighton Festival here in the UK. The publicity bumf always emphasises that the performers aren't necessarily gay. Sorry, I haven't seen the show. I'm sorry to hear that this  is treated as the sins of the mothers being visited on the children, or something. Hmmm. Didn't know that, thanks for explaining.

Michael - thanks for that, at least she wasn't too proud to change her beliefs, and I am sure you are right, there are plenty of examples, you bet.




Offline fritzkep

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Re: Gay History -- How We Got Here
« Reply #551 on: September 24, 2007, 05:43:38 PM »
Michael, I'm not sure if this website has been noted, called "People with a History".

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/pwh/

I don't recall it being mentioned, but if it has been, let me know and I'll delete it.

Werd ich zum Augenblicke sagen, "Verweile doch! Du bist so schön..."

Offline michaelflanagansf

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Re: Gay History -- How We Got Here
« Reply #552 on: September 24, 2007, 06:13:26 PM »
Michael, I'm not sure if this website has been noted, called "People with a History".

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/pwh/

I don't recall it being mentioned, but if it has been, let me know and I'll delete it.

I mentioned it in connection to Mormon history earlier:

http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=20158.msg798599#msg798599

But didn't post the front page.  It's worth keeping here Fritz.
Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. - Karl R. Popper

Offline tfferg

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Re: Gay History -- How We Got Here
« Reply #553 on: September 25, 2007, 01:18:52 AM »

But while we are on this subject, the Ladyboys of Bangkok have performed for several years now at the Brighton Festival here in the UK. The publicity bumf always emphasises that the performers aren't necessarily gay. Sorry, I haven't seen the show. I'm sorry to hear that this  is treated as the sins of the mothers being visited on the children, or something. Hmmm. Didn't know that, thanks for explaining.


Karmic consequences are not the sins of the mother being visited on the children, but the consequences of the same person's sins in their next reincarnation.

Offline CellarDweller115

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Re: Gay History -- How We Got Here
« Reply #554 on: September 25, 2007, 12:51:51 PM »
Strangely enough there was a Dear Abby that concerned this sort of thing recently.  This post is from Bessemer Alabama:

http://bessemeropinions.blogspot.com/2007/07/intolerance-v-acceptance.html

So this does seem related to many people's personal history.


Loved this story, thanks for posting it!

Both Ann Landers and Dear Abby long supported gay readers, I've seen many letters answered by them regarding this issue.

One of the funniest I found was in a collection of her answers to letter, and went something like this:

Q:  Dear Ann Landers, a homosexual couple has moved in across the street.  What can we do to improve the neighborhood?

A:  You could move.




:D :D :D :D